From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Jul 1 20:30:54 2015 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 14:30:54 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] NABL Annual Meeting Agenda Message-ID: <006301d0b43c$d4ebe050$7ec3a0f0$@labarrelaw.com> AGENDA NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2015 ANNUAL MEETING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Tuesday, July 7, 2015 Salon 19, Level 2 Rosen Centre Hotel Orlando, Florida 1:00 pm. WELCOME AND MEETING LOGISTICS Scott C. LaBarre, President, NABL, Denver, Colorado 1:05 p.m. RUNNING FOR PUBLIC OFFICE AS A BLIND CANDIDATE: Legal and Other Barriers Parnell Diggs, Board Member, NABL, President, NFB South Carolina, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina 1:30 pm NFB LITIGATION: HELPING US LIVE THE LIVES WE WANT Mehgan Sidhu, General Counsel, National Federation of the Blind, Baltimore, Maryland 2:00 pm BLIND LAWYERS IN THE ORGANIZED AND SPECIALIZED BAR MOVEMENT Scott C. LaBarre, Moderator, ABA Standing Committee on Membership, Member, Governing Council, Solo, Small Firm, and General Practice Division of the ABA Denver, Colorado; Charles S. Brown, ABA Standing Committee on Election Law, Member, Governing Council, Senior Lawyers Division of the ABA; Patti Chang, Immediate Past Chair, Illinois Bar Association Administrative Law Section, Member, Illinois Bar Disability Law Committee, Chicago, Illinois; Deepa Goraya, Executive Board Member, National Association of Attorneys with Disabilities, Washington, DC; Katherine Carrol, Executive Board Member, National Association of Attorneys With Disabilities, Long Island, New York 2:50 BREAK 3:00 pm DOES THE ADA APPLY TO RIDESHARING AND OTHER TRANSPORTATION SERVICES? Timothy R. Elder, Second Vice President, NABL, TRE Legal, Fremont, California; Michael Nunez, Rosen Bien Galvan & Grunfeld, LLP, San Francisco, California 3:30 pm EMPLOYMENT OF LAWYERS WITH DISABILITIES: Myth and Reality Matthias L. Niska, Associate, Brown Goldstein, and Levy, Baltimore, Maryland 4:00 pm REFORM NEEDED TO THE ADA AND OTHER LAWS BY THE TIME THE ADA REACHES ITS GOLDEN ANNIVERSARY Dr. Marc Maurer, Director of Legal Policy, Immediate Past President, National Federation of the Blind, Baltimore, Maryland; Daniel F. Goldstein, Partner, Brown Goldstein and Levy, Baltimore, Maryland; Matthias L. Niska, Associate, Brown Goldstein, and Levy, Baltimore, Maryland 4:50 pm GENERAL BUSINESS AND ELECTIONS OF NABL BOARD 5:00 p.m. ADJOURN 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. ANNUAL NABL RECEPTION (ticketed event) Join us for cocktails and hors d'oeuvres as we celebrate the progress of our organization. Network and meet your fellow blind attorneys and legal professionals. Salon 9, level 2. From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Wed Jul 1 21:02:43 2015 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Dan Beitz) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 21:02:43 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] NABL Annual Meeting Agenda In-Reply-To: <006301d0b43c$d4ebe050$7ec3a0f0$@labarrelaw.com> References: <006301d0b43c$d4ebe050$7ec3a0f0$@labarrelaw.com> Message-ID: I'm sorry I have to miss this. However, I do have a suggestion for next year's agenda. Somebody needs to do a presentation on the admission and use of photographic evidence by blind persons. This is a very real problem that will come up regularly in most of our careers. I failed to appreciate the significance of a picture in my file that was very persuasive to the judge. I represented a corporate client who was sitting right there to witness my laps. Fortunately, corporate counsel was understanding, and knew that I would fix this issue going forward. After 23 years of litigating, this should not have happened, but it did because, among other lapses, I failed to get a second opinion on the contents and potential impact of the picture from a sighted colleague. In short, I took allot for granted. Anyone else think this is a good idea for next year? I can't be the only blind attorney out there that has struggled with this issue at times. Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com www.wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 4:31 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Scott C. LaBarre Subject: [blindlaw] NABL Annual Meeting Agenda AGENDA NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2015 ANNUAL MEETING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Tuesday, July 7, 2015 Salon 19, Level 2 Rosen Centre Hotel Orlando, Florida 1:00 pm. WELCOME AND MEETING LOGISTICS Scott C. LaBarre, President, NABL, Denver, Colorado 1:05 p.m. RUNNING FOR PUBLIC OFFICE AS A BLIND CANDIDATE: Legal and Other Barriers Parnell Diggs, Board Member, NABL, President, NFB South Carolina, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina 1:30 pm NFB LITIGATION: HELPING US LIVE THE LIVES WE WANT Mehgan Sidhu, General Counsel, National Federation of the Blind, Baltimore, Maryland 2:00 pm BLIND LAWYERS IN THE ORGANIZED AND SPECIALIZED BAR MOVEMENT Scott C. LaBarre, Moderator, ABA Standing Committee on Membership, Member, Governing Council, Solo, Small Firm, and General Practice Division of the ABA Denver, Colorado; Charles S. Brown, ABA Standing Committee on Election Law, Member, Governing Council, Senior Lawyers Division of the ABA; Patti Chang, Immediate Past Chair, Illinois Bar Association Administrative Law Section, Member, Illinois Bar Disability Law Committee, Chicago, Illinois; Deepa Goraya, Executive Board Member, National Association of Attorneys with Disabilities, Washington, DC; Katherine Carrol, Executive Board Member, National Association of Attorneys With Disabilities, Long Island, New York 2:50 BREAK 3:00 pm DOES THE ADA APPLY TO RIDESHARING AND OTHER TRANSPORTATION SERVICES? Timothy R. Elder, Second Vice President, NABL, TRE Legal, Fremont, California; Michael Nunez, Rosen Bien Galvan & Grunfeld, LLP, San Francisco, California 3:30 pm EMPLOYMENT OF LAWYERS WITH DISABILITIES: Myth and Reality Matthias L. Niska, Associate, Brown Goldstein, and Levy, Baltimore, Maryland 4:00 pm REFORM NEEDED TO THE ADA AND OTHER LAWS BY THE TIME THE ADA REACHES ITS GOLDEN ANNIVERSARY Dr. Marc Maurer, Director of Legal Policy, Immediate Past President, National Federation of the Blind, Baltimore, Maryland; Daniel F. Goldstein, Partner, Brown Goldstein and Levy, Baltimore, Maryland; Matthias L. Niska, Associate, Brown Goldstein, and Levy, Baltimore, Maryland 4:50 pm GENERAL BUSINESS AND ELECTIONS OF NABL BOARD 5:00 p.m. ADJOURN 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. ANNUAL NABL RECEPTION (ticketed event) Join us for cocktails and hors d'oeuvres as we celebrate the progress of our organization. Network and meet your fellow blind attorneys and legal professionals. Salon 9, level 2. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 10:59:36 2015 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 16:29:36 +0530 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessing documents required for drafting Message-ID: Hi All, I am typically given research-related tasks during my internships and am not given any opportunities to draft plaints/written statements/ other documents because one is required to carefully analyze a large set of documents such as charge-sheets/ sale deeds/invoices/ correspondence between the parties, etc., which are mostly inaccessible, for crafting a cogent and comprehensive petition or application. One obvious way to grapple with this problem would be to scan all the concerned documents, but most firms that I have worked with neither have the resources nor the time to allocate the task of making these documents accessible to one of their employees. Another potential solution would be to ask someone to verbally read these documents to me, but very few employers are willing to go the extra mile. Generally, no one overtly refuses to provide such accommodations, but they simply choose to assign these tasks to other interns. Most employers are far too busy and preoccupied with their own work to engage in a meaningful dialogue about the coping strategies that can be employed in such situations. How can I grapple with this challenge, in light of the problems that I have sketched above? Any help would be invaluable! Best, Rahul From chris.stewart at uky.edu Thu Jul 2 12:26:41 2015 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 08:26:41 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question Regarding Mr. Charles Brown Message-ID: Greetings Listers: I read in the NABL agenda that one of the panel speakers, Charles Brown, will be a member of the ABA's election law committee. Could anyone email me off list with his contact info? I'm the president of my law school's election law society. I co-authored an article on election law wich was published by the London School of Economics. My student note was selected for publication by the Kentucky Law Journal and is focused on election law. And, I have the privelege of assisting in the initial drafting of an election law treatise whose authors comprise some of America's leading election law experts. Put simply, I'm intensely interested in the subject and would greatly enjoy reaching out to a more experienced federationist who is as well. Thanks, Chris -- Chris K. Stewart University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 Ph: (502)457-1757 From Attorney at alcidonislaw.com Thu Jul 2 14:43:34 2015 From: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis, Esquire) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 10:43:34 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessing documents required for drafting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <395598AE912E428B9CEA19EC11DE180C@RodTHINK> This is an important discussion to be had and I believe we need to exhaust our collective opinions on this thread. I cannot offer much of a suggestion as I am a sole practitioner, but I always wonder, to what extent a firm does accommodate to allow a blind atty to gain comprehensive access to the file. Do they really go out of their way to insure that all docs are scanned? And for hand-written docs that there are readers on hand to assist? I scan everything that come in my office. But I still need sighted assistance to review photographs, police reports, hand-written witness statements, etc. before I draft pleadings. I would measure this to about 35 percent lack of access with my ability to operate independently. I cannot imagine being in a firm and all that I ever do is research and research without being able to engage other parts of the litigation process. Rod -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 6:59 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Rahul Bajaj Subject: [blindlaw] Accessing documents required for drafting Hi All, I am typically given research-related tasks during my internships and am not given any opportunities to draft plaints/written statements/ other documents because one is required to carefully analyze a large set of documents such as charge-sheets/ sale deeds/invoices/ correspondence between the parties, etc., which are mostly inaccessible, for crafting a cogent and comprehensive petition or application. One obvious way to grapple with this problem would be to scan all the concerned documents, but most firms that I have worked with neither have the resources nor the time to allocate the task of making these documents accessible to one of their employees. Another potential solution would be to ask someone to verbally read these documents to me, but very few employers are willing to go the extra mile. Generally, no one overtly refuses to provide such accommodations, but they simply choose to assign these tasks to other interns. Most employers are far too busy and preoccupied with their own work to engage in a meaningful dialogue about the coping strategies that can be employed in such situations. How can I grapple with this challenge, in light of the problems that I have sketched above? Any help would be invaluable! Best, Rahul _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 16:04:27 2015 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 12:04:27 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Paying my five dollars dues, and National Association of Blind Lawyers Meetings Online Streaming Message-ID: <80D82B2C5C0F4187950D1FE4885A2CEE@Helga> Hi all! How are you all? I just wanted to tell you that Last year I went to the NFB convention, and I pay my five dollars due when I attended one of the National Association of Blind Lawyers meetings. however, unfortunately this year perhaps I'm not goign to be attending the National Convention, and I'm not going to pay my five dollars dues in order to still be part of the National Association of Blind Lawyers division. Is there a way, I can pay my five dollars dues online in order to be still be part of the National Association of Blind Lawyers division? And are the National Association of Blind Lawyers meetings going to be stream online? And if so, what days and at what times? Just wondering. It is a probability that I go to the convention, but i'm not so sure. I look forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks so much and have a nice day. God bless! :) Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sat Jul 4 12:42:13 2015 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross A. Doerr) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2015 08:42:13 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Happy 4th of July Message-ID: <003801d0b656$da1f9550$8e5ebff0$@roadrunner.com> May everyone on the list have a wonderful holiday. Have at least one hot dog or hamburger and get outdoors for something. Ross A. Doerr Esq. Augusta, Maine From jtfetter at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 17:33:47 2015 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2015 13:33:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction and hoping to meet some of you at NABL Message-ID: <55996A7B.8020905@yahoo.com> Dear All, I hope you all had an enjoyable Fourth of July Weekend. I am writing to introduce myself and look forward to meeting some of you at the NABL meeting on Tuesday. I will be starting law school at Ohio State in the fall with the intent of doing some sort of disability advocacy work; I am open to working in this field full-time, if circumstances permit, or to doing such work pro bono or as a portion of my full-time job. I previously received my Ph.D. in political philosophy from Notre Dame, so I have some philosophical interests and inclinations as well, and if possible, I hope to work more on the policy side in crafting regulations, best practices, etc or taking other steps to ensure that accessibility is not an afterthought for various companies, government agencies, and other major employers. I would very much enjoy meeting and networking with those of you who have similar or related interests at the upcoming NABL meeting, and I wish you all a happy and successful summer. Sincerely, James Fetter From bluezinfandel at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 20:27:55 2015 From: bluezinfandel at hotmail.com (Ben Fulton) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2015 14:27:55 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 18th annual mock trial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Hello all, This is intended for the participants of the 18th annual mock trial at the NFB convention. I sent this message originally as a reply to the posting of the NFB list serv: however, I've been notified that it is awaiting moderator approval, and I wanted to ensure that the information reaches the participants in time to be of use for the trial. I am hoping that they are members of this mailing list as well. One point I am hoping the city will make is that if Mr. Fred Eration was using a cane he would have been able to feel the edge of the ditch. If he was using a guide dog that allowed him to suffer this fall, then it was a very poorly trained guide dog and the liability then lies with the trainer of that dog. If he was using niether of these techniques, what alternative method was he using for determining whether it was safe to walk forward. Personally, I would never put my weight on a foot unless I knew what it was resting on first. To allow oneself to walk off a precipace is highly irresponsible. I use a cane and would never walk off the edge of a cliff, or other dangerous pitfall. I also go on wilderness hikes. If I were to fall in a naturally occuring gorge or other depression, should I then sue parks and recreation for allowing such an obstacle to exist. I understand that Mr. Fred Eration was in a celebratory mood, and perhaps this contributed to his lack of awareness. I am reminded of a time when I was exiting myself from a "watering hole" in a "celebratory mood" and when I collided with a nearby parking meter, my friend exclaimed. - "You didn't do that because you're blind; you did that because you're drunk" and I had to laugh because this was indeed an accurate assessment of the situation. I did not turn around and sue anyone for my own negligance. I would hold that it is the responsibility of any individual to ensure their own safety when walking forward. One time an elevator door opened onto an empty shaft and walking through that door would have led to a nasty fall of some 14 stories. However, I did not fall because when my cane failed to connect with any solid matter I refused to put my foot down. I have never walked off the edge of anything, and if I did I would consider myself responsible. Addendum, - although the following was not included in my original email I would like to give the other side a fair chance. Mr. Fred Eration's attorney might want to consider what special caricteristics of this particular obstacle would have made it more difficult to detect. Perhaps there were some features of the landscape that may have indicated to a cane user that it was actually safe to walk into a ditch. and now --- the original message Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 10:09:27 -0500 To: nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org Subject: [Nfbnet-members-list] FW: 18th Annual Mock Trial From: nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org From: Scott C. LaBarre [ mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com] Subject: 18th Annual Mock Trial Hear yee, hear yee, heary, all rise and draw nye for the Honorable Court for the District of Wilks-Barre, Pennsylvania will soon be in session, the Most Esteemed and Honorable Charles S. Brown presiding! The National Association of Blind Lawyers announces the 18th Annual Mock Trial which will be held Monday, July 6th in Junior Ballroom G, Level 1, at 4:15 pm inside the beautiful Rosen Center Hotel as part of the 75th Annual Convention of the National Federation of the Blind. This year’s trial features an all-star cast including Dr. Marc Maurer, Daniel F. Goldstein, Carla McQuillan, Kevan Worley, Haben Girma, Ray Wayne, Timothy Elder, Bennett Prows, Anthony Thomas, Parnell Diggs, and Scott LaBarre. The year is 1940, the place Wilks-Barre, Pennsylvania. In fact, it is the 16th of November, 1940, and Mr. Fred Eration emerges froma local watering hole in a most celebratory mood because a brand new organization has just been formed, the National Federation of the Blind. He is walking down a city sidewalk and falls in a deep construction ditch where a sign warned of the drop off but no barrier had been erected. He, of course, injures himself seriously and can no longer travel around independently. The Township of Wilks-Barre will say that they are not liable because any reasonable person, one who is sighted, would have seen the warning sign. If that defense won’t work, the City argues that Fred Eration is automatically negligent because he was wandering around without a sighted helper, and even if that argument doesn’t work, blind individuals who are afflicted with a loss of vision must exercise extraordinary care while walking alone without sighted help. On Mr. Eration’s side, his expert witness, Dr. Jacobus tenBroek will argue that the blind have a right to live in the world and society must practice a policy of integrationism. Society should expect that the blind will be about in the land using a dog, cane, or nothing at all to aid travel. A reasonable city would take reasonable precautions to prevent injuries to its blind citizens and visitors. There will be three witnesses for each side and two lawyers representing each party. The audience will serve as our jury. Attendees of previous Mock Trials will tell you that they are both entertaining and raise important issues. This year’s trial travels back to the 1940’s and the legal climate that blind people faced at that time. Join us next Monday. Your jury fee is $5 and such funds will help the NABL carry on its good work. You now may be seated. From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 7 23:18:20 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 23:18:20 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Message-ID: The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 8 00:58:55 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 17:58:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DA1AEE82500485A8C49EC4C6E44211E@Spike> Susan, your county making this an either/or situation does not comply with the ADA as Zoomtext can't be used by a totally blind person. What happens if a new blind employee is hired by your department or another county department? it is the county's responsibility to address individual needs when it comes to job accommodation. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 4:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 02:09:52 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (Anita Keith-Foust) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 22:09:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com> Dear Susan: If you have to use ZoomText, get to know the technical support person named Lloyd. He is the best and he takes time with you. He is very patient and helpful. ZoomText only reads text, not pictures of text. This will be the first problem that you will run into. If there is any way possible, get them to keep JAWS. I do not understand why they would eliminate JAWS rather than just adding ZoomText. Make sure that they get ZoomText with Speech. I hope this helps. Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jul 8 14:21:13 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:21:13 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: <4DA1AEE82500485A8C49EC4C6E44211E@Spike> References: <4DA1AEE82500485A8C49EC4C6E44211E@Spike> Message-ID: I think the decision is being based on their view (without research into how any of these programs actually work for the end user) of what is most compatible with their network environment, which already runs several non-compliant / incompatible programs. Because the prosecutors' office runs ZoomText with fewer problems on their discreet portion of the network, and because a new hire at another county agency uses ZoomText, therefore we all are supposed to adapt? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Charles Krugman via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 5:59 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Charles Krugman Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Susan, your county making this an either/or situation does not comply with the ADA as Zoomtext can't be used by a totally blind person. What happens if a new blind employee is hired by your department or another county department? it is the county's responsibility to address individual needs when it comes to job accommodation. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 4:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jul 8 14:26:54 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:26:54 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com> References: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the contact name. If this happens, I will be sure to pass along the information to the techs from IT assigned to our agency. My bigger fear is the learning curve, as the only time that I will have to learn this program, if it is determined to be what will be provided, is when I am at home. I run JAWS and MAGic at home, which were initially provided to me by the state VocRehab agency, along with the training to learn JAWS basics. Because my case is now considered closed, and because I am too young (or too old, being already employed) to be a priority for re-opening the VocRehab case, that also means learning without the program available to me to practice on, unless I take time away from my family and ask them to bring me to the office after hours and on weekends. -----Original Message----- From: Anita Keith-Foust [mailto:anitakeithfoust at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 7:10 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly; AnitaKeithFoust at gmail.com Subject: RE: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Dear Susan: If you have to use ZoomText, get to know the technical support person named Lloyd. He is the best and he takes time with you. He is very patient and helpful. ZoomText only reads text, not pictures of text. This will be the first problem that you will run into. If there is any way possible, get them to keep JAWS. I do not understand why they would eliminate JAWS rather than just adding ZoomText. Make sure that they get ZoomText with Speech. I hope this helps. Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com From Attorney at alcidonislaw.com Wed Jul 8 15:03:20 2015 From: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis, Esquire) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 11:03:20 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: References: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> The point not being made here is that ZoomText is not a screen reading program in the sense that JAWS, NVDA, and Window Eyes are. There is a gross misunderstanding about the technology if someone were to say that you can replace the functionality of JAWS with ZoomText. They are not the same thing at all. I don't believe any totally blind person should agree to that form of accomodation. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:26 AM To: 'Anita Keith-Foust' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Thanks for the contact name. If this happens, I will be sure to pass along the information to the techs from IT assigned to our agency. My bigger fear is the learning curve, as the only time that I will have to learn this program, if it is determined to be what will be provided, is when I am at home. I run JAWS and MAGic at home, which were initially provided to me by the state VocRehab agency, along with the training to learn JAWS basics. Because my case is now considered closed, and because I am too young (or too old, being already employed) to be a priority for re-opening the VocRehab case, that also means learning without the program available to me to practice on, unless I take time away from my family and ask them to bring me to the office after hours and on weekends. -----Original Message----- From: Anita Keith-Foust [mailto:anitakeithfoust at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 7:10 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly; AnitaKeithFoust at gmail.com Subject: RE: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Dear Susan: If you have to use ZoomText, get to know the technical support person named Lloyd. He is the best and he takes time with you. He is very patient and helpful. ZoomText only reads text, not pictures of text. This will be the first problem that you will run into. If there is any way possible, get them to keep JAWS. I do not understand why they would eliminate JAWS rather than just adding ZoomText. Make sure that they get ZoomText with Speech. I hope this helps. Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jul 8 15:22:13 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 15:22:13 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> References: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com> <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> Message-ID: Thanks - I will try to communicate that to the powers that be. From past interactions with the head of our agency, as well as IT administration, I have the impression that they a) do not believe that my visual impairment is as severe as it is, since (like most of us), I still manage to look properly dressed and can move around spaces that I know well without my white cane, and b) do not understand that the condition is progressive, and will result in total vision loss at some point before my retirement age hits. I tried to explain that I already need the navigation features of JAWS that do not seem to be as complete (if even they exist) in ZoomText, along with the Braille output potential for the future, but I have the feeling that no one cares to go beyond the product sales blurbs as far as education about the various programs. -----Original Message----- From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire [mailto:Attorney at alcidonislaw.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 8:03 AM To: 'Anita Keith-Foust'; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The point not being made here is that ZoomText is not a screen reading program in the sense that JAWS, NVDA, and Window Eyes are. There is a gross misunderstanding about the technology if someone were to say that you can replace the functionality of JAWS with ZoomText. They are not the same thing at all. I don't believe any totally blind person should agree to that form of accomodation. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:26 AM To: 'Anita Keith-Foust' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Thanks for the contact name. If this happens, I will be sure to pass along the information to the techs from IT assigned to our agency. My bigger fear is the learning curve, as the only time that I will have to learn this program, if it is determined to be what will be provided, is when I am at home. I run JAWS and MAGic at home, which were initially provided to me by the state VocRehab agency, along with the training to learn JAWS basics. Because my case is now considered closed, and because I am too young (or too old, being already employed) to be a priority for re-opening the VocRehab case, that also means learning without the program available to me to practice on, unless I take time away from my family and ask them to bring me to the office after hours and on weekends. -----Original Message----- From: Anita Keith-Foust [mailto:anitakeithfoust at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 7:10 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly; AnitaKeithFoust at gmail.com Subject: RE: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Dear Susan: If you have to use ZoomText, get to know the technical support person named Lloyd. He is the best and he takes time with you. He is very patient and helpful. ZoomText only reads text, not pictures of text. This will be the first problem that you will run into. If there is any way possible, get them to keep JAWS. I do not understand why they would eliminate JAWS rather than just adding ZoomText. Make sure that they get ZoomText with Speech. I hope this helps. Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 15:26:42 2015 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 20:56:42 +0530 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> References: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com> <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> Message-ID: If nothing else works, please use nvda which is free and can be used to do most things effectively. Zoomtext is a luxury and JAWS is a necessity. This is as overt a form of discrimination as any you will ever see. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 8, 2015, at 8:33 PM, Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via blindlaw wrote: > > The point not being made here is that ZoomText is not a screen reading program in the sense that JAWS, NVDA, and Window Eyes are. There is a gross misunderstanding about the technology if someone were to say that you can replace the functionality of JAWS with ZoomText. They are not the same thing at all. > > I don't believe any totally blind person should agree to that form of accomodation. > > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > > -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:26 AM > To: 'Anita Keith-Foust' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Susan Kelly > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > > Thanks for the contact name. If this happens, I will be sure to pass along the information to the techs from IT assigned to our agency. > > My bigger fear is the learning curve, as the only time that I will have to learn this program, if it is determined to be what will be provided, is when I am at home. I run JAWS and MAGic at home, which were initially provided to me by the state VocRehab agency, along with the training to learn JAWS basics. Because my case is now considered closed, and because I am too young (or too old, being already employed) to be a priority for re-opening the VocRehab case, that also means learning without the program available to me to practice on, unless I take time away from my family and ask them to bring me to the office after hours and on weekends. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anita Keith-Foust [mailto:anitakeithfoust at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 7:10 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Susan Kelly; AnitaKeithFoust at gmail.com > Subject: RE: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > > Dear Susan: > > If you have to use ZoomText, get to know the technical support person named Lloyd. He is the best and he takes time with you. He is very patient and helpful. > > ZoomText only reads text, not pictures of text. This will be the first problem that you will run into. > > If there is any way possible, get them to keep JAWS. I do not understand why they would eliminate JAWS rather than just adding ZoomText. Make sure that they get ZoomText with Speech. > > I hope this helps. > > Thank you. > > Anita Keith-Foust > 919-430-1978 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:18 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Susan Kelly > Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > > The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. > > My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Wed Jul 8 16:06:34 2015 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 10:06:34 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS References: Message-ID: Hello Ms. Kelly: You wrote in part: "My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment." I think that your understanding is a bit misconstrued. Jaws may be the MOST POPULAR screen reader, but it isn't the only FULL-FEATURED screen reader in the market place. For instance, I can't use Jaws in my business because it just DOES NOT track the reading of the various screens I interact with daily correctly. I'm forced to do constant screen refreshing and this does slow things down for me considerably. Window-Eyes is a major contender in the screen reader market. I have used this screen reader forever and, sufficing to say, it has been the one that has KEPT ME substantially gainfully employed if I dare to be close to being politically correct. For the records, the developers of ZoomText and Window-Eyes have sinced MERGED into one company. In the months and years to come, you may jolly well find that Window-Eyes and ZoomText will play ball better if they can iron out all the kinks they're working on. I don't place my choice or trust in screen reader capabilities on what accessibility gurus say; rather, I venture out and try things out or myself, make my own assessment, and draw my own conclusions! I'll urge you to consider creating the time to do the same. You can reach the ZoomText/Window-Eyes folks by calling: 1-802-362-3612. They should be able to tell you how you can get a demo copy of their products to play with at your own leisure. Lastly, NVDA--Nonvisual Desktop Access--is slowly winning the hearts and minds of screen reader users and may become a real contender in the market place soon if plans DO NOT go awry. What's more, it's free! I have NO ILL-FEELINGS towards Jaws, but it is wrong to assume that it is the be-all and end-all for screen reader users! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Wed Jul 8 16:10:36 2015 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 10:10:36 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS References: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com><6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> Message-ID: <514C56CC84A9442DA7873732B414887E@victory2> Shame on your county; it may be readying itself for some legal action. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Wed Jul 8 16:12:46 2015 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 10:12:46 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS References: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com><6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> Message-ID: ZoomText and Window-Eyes are "GETTING MARRIED" slowly as a result of the merger. So, here goes another learning curve in the making! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jul 8 17:05:50 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 17:05:50 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I actually do have NVDA loaded at home and at work for when JAWS is not cooperating, so it is a definite plus. The biggest problems, though, are whether anything will work on our very messy network, and the fact that I have absolutely no say in what is eventually chosen by the County as the preferred vendor / program. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 9:07 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Hello Ms. Kelly: You wrote in part: "My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment." I think that your understanding is a bit misconstrued. Jaws may be the MOST POPULAR screen reader, but it isn't the only FULL-FEATURED screen reader in the market place. For instance, I can't use Jaws in my business because it just DOES NOT track the reading of the various screens I interact with daily correctly. I'm forced to do constant screen refreshing and this does slow things down for me considerably. Window-Eyes is a major contender in the screen reader market. I have used this screen reader forever and, sufficing to say, it has been the one that has KEPT ME substantially gainfully employed if I dare to be close to being politically correct. For the records, the developers of ZoomText and Window-Eyes have sinced MERGED into one company. In the months and years to come, you may jolly well find that Window-Eyes and ZoomText will play ball better if they can iron out all the kinks they're working on. I don't place my choice or trust in screen reader capabilities on what accessibility gurus say; rather, I venture out and try things out or myself, make my own assessment, and draw my own conclusions! I'll urge you to consider creating the time to do the same. You can reach the ZoomText/Window-Eyes folks by calling: 1-802-362-3612. They should be able to tell you how you can get a demo copy of their products to play with at your own leisure. Lastly, NVDA--Nonvisual Desktop Access--is slowly winning the hearts and minds of screen reader users and may become a real contender in the market place soon if plans DO NOT go awry. What's more, it's free! I have NO ILL-FEELINGS towards Jaws, but it is wrong to assume that it is the be-all and end-all for screen reader users! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Attorney at alcidonislaw.com Wed Jul 8 17:24:19 2015 From: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis, Esquire) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 13:24:19 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46661ABB9D3F4DE7A2E08975189CEE2F@RodTHINK> Yes, you do have a say. This is called reasonable accommodation that is specifically tailored to you, not to the department unless they can demonstrate some form of a burden. If your employment is at stake, I would highly encourage that you contact an attorney in your area to fire a letter to them to put them on notice and let them proceed at their peril. If you can credibly demonstrate that ZoomText is not the tool that is appropriate to accommodate you, then it is not a reasonable accommodation. You should not remain idle and let them complete the implementation -- you should take action right now to protect your interest. Good luck. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 1:05 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS I actually do have NVDA loaded at home and at work for when JAWS is not cooperating, so it is a definite plus. The biggest problems, though, are whether anything will work on our very messy network, and the fact that I have absolutely no say in what is eventually chosen by the County as the preferred vendor / program. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 9:07 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Hello Ms. Kelly: You wrote in part: "My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment." I think that your understanding is a bit misconstrued. Jaws may be the MOST POPULAR screen reader, but it isn't the only FULL-FEATURED screen reader in the market place. For instance, I can't use Jaws in my business because it just DOES NOT track the reading of the various screens I interact with daily correctly. I'm forced to do constant screen refreshing and this does slow things down for me considerably. Window-Eyes is a major contender in the screen reader market. I have used this screen reader forever and, sufficing to say, it has been the one that has KEPT ME substantially gainfully employed if I dare to be close to being politically correct. For the records, the developers of ZoomText and Window-Eyes have sinced MERGED into one company. In the months and years to come, you may jolly well find that Window-Eyes and ZoomText will play ball better if they can iron out all the kinks they're working on. I don't place my choice or trust in screen reader capabilities on what accessibility gurus say; rather, I venture out and try things out or myself, make my own assessment, and draw my own conclusions! I'll urge you to consider creating the time to do the same. You can reach the ZoomText/Window-Eyes folks by calling: 1-802-362-3612. They should be able to tell you how you can get a demo copy of their products to play with at your own leisure. Lastly, NVDA--Nonvisual Desktop Access--is slowly winning the hearts and minds of screen reader users and may become a real contender in the market place soon if plans DO NOT go awry. What's more, it's free! I have NO ILL-FEELINGS towards Jaws, but it is wrong to assume that it is the be-all and end-all for screen reader users! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jul 8 17:42:30 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 17:42:30 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: <46661ABB9D3F4DE7A2E08975189CEE2F@RodTHINK> References: <46661ABB9D3F4DE7A2E08975189CEE2F@RodTHINK> Message-ID: Thanks - this has been an on-going battle over the last 6 years, and will likely continue to be so. The first accessibility program I used was one I purchased myself (WinZoom), when I still had more vision, as it did not need to be installed on the network as a resident program but rather loaded daily from a USB. It has been an uphill battle ever since, especially since the theory of the powers that be is that, because I have a secretary assigned to me alone (rather than sharing one with 3 other attorneys, the usual public defender staffing quotient), she can take care of reading everything to me that does not work computer-wise. In actual practice, that does not work in the rapid pace of juvenile court, but there are not so subtle reminders of the hiring freeze and budget cuts that are in place to counter my complaints. -----Original Message----- From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire [mailto:Attorney at alcidonislaw.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:24 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Yes, you do have a say. This is called reasonable accommodation that is specifically tailored to you, not to the department unless they can demonstrate some form of a burden. If your employment is at stake, I would highly encourage that you contact an attorney in your area to fire a letter to them to put them on notice and let them proceed at their peril. If you can credibly demonstrate that ZoomText is not the tool that is appropriate to accommodate you, then it is not a reasonable accommodation. You should not remain idle and let them complete the implementation -- you should take action right now to protect your interest. Good luck. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 1:05 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS I actually do have NVDA loaded at home and at work for when JAWS is not cooperating, so it is a definite plus. The biggest problems, though, are whether anything will work on our very messy network, and the fact that I have absolutely no say in what is eventually chosen by the County as the preferred vendor / program. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 9:07 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Hello Ms. Kelly: You wrote in part: "My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment." I think that your understanding is a bit misconstrued. Jaws may be the MOST POPULAR screen reader, but it isn't the only FULL-FEATURED screen reader in the market place. For instance, I can't use Jaws in my business because it just DOES NOT track the reading of the various screens I interact with daily correctly. I'm forced to do constant screen refreshing and this does slow things down for me considerably. Window-Eyes is a major contender in the screen reader market. I have used this screen reader forever and, sufficing to say, it has been the one that has KEPT ME substantially gainfully employed if I dare to be close to being politically correct. For the records, the developers of ZoomText and Window-Eyes have sinced MERGED into one company. In the months and years to come, you may jolly well find that Window-Eyes and ZoomText will play ball better if they can iron out all the kinks they're working on. I don't place my choice or trust in screen reader capabilities on what accessibility gurus say; rather, I venture out and try things out or myself, make my own assessment, and draw my own conclusions! I'll urge you to consider creating the time to do the same. You can reach the ZoomText/Window-Eyes folks by calling: 1-802-362-3612. They should be able to tell you how you can get a demo copy of their products to play with at your own leisure. Lastly, NVDA--Nonvisual Desktop Access--is slowly winning the hearts and minds of screen reader users and may become a real contender in the market place soon if plans DO NOT go awry. What's more, it's free! I have NO ILL-FEELINGS towards Jaws, but it is wrong to assume that it is the be-all and end-all for screen reader users! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 8 18:37:46 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 11:37:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: References: <4DA1AEE82500485A8C49EC4C6E44211E@Spike> Message-ID: If that is what they are doing they are not in compliance with the law and it may be time to file a grievance through your union if you are represented by one or a complaint under the ADA with the Department of Justice as they are not accommodating your needs. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 7:21 AM To: Charles Krugman ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS I think the decision is being based on their view (without research into how any of these programs actually work for the end user) of what is most compatible with their network environment, which already runs several non-compliant / incompatible programs. Because the prosecutors' office runs ZoomText with fewer problems on their discreet portion of the network, and because a new hire at another county agency uses ZoomText, therefore we all are supposed to adapt? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Charles Krugman via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 5:59 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Charles Krugman Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Susan, your county making this an either/or situation does not comply with the ADA as Zoomtext can't be used by a totally blind person. What happens if a new blind employee is hired by your department or another county department? it is the county's responsibility to address individual needs when it comes to job accommodation. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 4:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 8 18:43:15 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 11:43:15 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> References: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com> <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> Message-ID: <7AC4772A661A462AB4178852589DCE0C@Spike> good points as Zoomtext is actually marketed as a screen magnification program by Freedom Scientific. Chuck t -----Original Message----- From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 8:03 AM To: 'Anita Keith-Foust' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The point not being made here is that ZoomText is not a screen reading program in the sense that JAWS, NVDA, and Window Eyes are. There is a gross misunderstanding about the technology if someone were to say that you can replace the functionality of JAWS with ZoomText. They are not the same thing at all. I don't believe any totally blind person should agree to that form of accomodation. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:26 AM To: 'Anita Keith-Foust' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Thanks for the contact name. If this happens, I will be sure to pass along the information to the techs from IT assigned to our agency. My bigger fear is the learning curve, as the only time that I will have to learn this program, if it is determined to be what will be provided, is when I am at home. I run JAWS and MAGic at home, which were initially provided to me by the state VocRehab agency, along with the training to learn JAWS basics. Because my case is now considered closed, and because I am too young (or too old, being already employed) to be a priority for re-opening the VocRehab case, that also means learning without the program available to me to practice on, unless I take time away from my family and ask them to bring me to the office after hours and on weekends. -----Original Message----- From: Anita Keith-Foust [mailto:anitakeithfoust at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 7:10 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly; AnitaKeithFoust at gmail.com Subject: RE: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS Dear Susan: If you have to use ZoomText, get to know the technical support person named Lloyd. He is the best and he takes time with you. He is very patient and helpful. ZoomText only reads text, not pictures of text. This will be the first problem that you will run into. If there is any way possible, get them to keep JAWS. I do not understand why they would eliminate JAWS rather than just adding ZoomText. Make sure that they get ZoomText with Speech. I hope this helps. Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 8 19:11:19 2015 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 14:11:19 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: <7AC4772A661A462AB4178852589DCE0C@Spike> References: <017c01d0b923$2db0a690$8911f3b0$@gmail.com> <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> <7AC4772A661A462AB4178852589DCE0C@Spike> Message-ID: You are right that ZoomText is marketed as a magnification, or screen enlargement program, but not by Freedom Scientific. They have a competitor called Magic, so wouldn't market ZT. Dave At 01:43 PM 7/8/2015, you wrote: >good points as Zoomtext is actually marketed as a screen >magnification program by Freedom Scientific. >Chuck t > >-----Original Message----- From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 8:03 AM >To: 'Anita Keith-Foust' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >The point not being made here is that ZoomText is not a screen reading >program in the sense that JAWS, NVDA, and Window Eyes are. There is a gross >misunderstanding about the technology if someone were to say that you can >replace the functionality of JAWS with ZoomText. They are not the same thing >at all. > >I don't believe any totally blind person should agree to that form of >accomodation. > > > > >Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > >-----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:26 AM >To: 'Anita Keith-Foust' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >Thanks for the contact name. If this happens, I will be sure to pass along >the information to the techs from IT assigned to our agency. > >My bigger fear is the learning curve, as the only time that I will have to >learn this program, if it is determined to be what will be provided, is when >I am at home. I run JAWS and MAGic at home, which were initially provided >to me by the state VocRehab agency, along with the training to learn JAWS >basics. Because my case is now considered closed, and because I am too >young (or too old, being already employed) to be a priority for re-opening >the VocRehab case, that also means learning without the program available to >me to practice on, unless I take time away from my family and ask them to >bring me to the office after hours and on weekends. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Anita Keith-Foust [mailto:anitakeithfoust at gmail.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 7:10 PM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly; AnitaKeithFoust at gmail.com >Subject: RE: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >Dear Susan: > >If you have to use ZoomText, get to know the technical support person named >Lloyd. He is the best and he takes time with you. He is very patient and >helpful. > >ZoomText only reads text, not pictures of text. This will be the first >problem that you will run into. > >If there is any way possible, get them to keep JAWS. I do not understand why >they would eliminate JAWS rather than just adding ZoomText. Make sure that >they get ZoomText with Speech. > >I hope this helps. > >Thank you. > >Anita Keith-Foust >919-430-1978 > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly >via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:18 PM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the >JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I >still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive >condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant >on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a >busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my >friend. > >My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a >Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that >the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and >definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) >network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the >same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard >commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at >home? From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jul 8 19:13:44 2015 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 14:13:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: References: <46661ABB9D3F4DE7A2E08975189CEE2F@RodTHINK> Message-ID: You can also load NVDA from a USB drive, each time you want to use it. You should be able to use JAWS, and their objections wouldn't prevail if faced with a serious challenge. However, should you need an alternative before things are worked out, there is the NVDA USB drive alternative. Dave At 12:42 PM 7/8/2015, you wrote: >Thanks - this has been an on-going battle over the last 6 years, and >will likely continue to be so. The first accessibility program I >used was one I purchased myself (WinZoom), when I still had more >vision, as it did not need to be installed on the network as a >resident program but rather loaded daily from a USB. It has been an >uphill battle ever since, especially since the theory of the powers >that be is that, because I have a secretary assigned to me alone >(rather than sharing one with 3 other attorneys, the usual public >defender staffing quotient), she can take care of reading everything >to me that does not work computer-wise. In actual practice, that >does not work in the rapid pace of juvenile court, but there are not >so subtle reminders of the hiring freeze and budget cuts that are in >place to counter my complaints. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire [mailto:Attorney at alcidonislaw.com] >Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:24 AM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >Yes, you do have a say. This is called reasonable accommodation that >is specifically tailored to you, not to the department unless they >can demonstrate some form of a burden. If your employment is at >stake, I would highly encourage that you contact an attorney in your >area to fire a letter to them to put them on notice and let them >proceed at their peril. > >If you can credibly demonstrate that ZoomText is not the tool that >is appropriate to accommodate you, then it is not a reasonable accommodation. >You should not remain idle and let them complete the implementation >-- you should take action right now to protect your interest. > >Good luck. > > >Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 1:05 PM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >I actually do have NVDA loaded at home and at work for when JAWS is >not cooperating, so it is a definite plus. The biggest problems, >though, are whether anything will work on our very messy network, >and the fact that I have absolutely no say in what is eventually >chosen by the County as the preferred vendor / program. > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 9:07 AM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >Hello Ms. Kelly: > >You wrote in part: > >"My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration >for a Windows / Word environment." > >I think that your understanding is a bit misconstrued. Jaws may be >the MOST POPULAR screen reader, but it isn't the only FULL-FEATURED >screen reader in the market place. For instance, I can't use Jaws >in my business because it just DOES NOT track the reading of the >various screens I interact with daily correctly. I'm forced to do >constant screen refreshing and this does slow things down for me considerably. > >Window-Eyes is a major contender in the screen reader market. I >have used this screen reader forever and, sufficing to say, it has >been the one that has KEPT ME substantially gainfully employed if I >dare to be close to being politically correct. > >For the records, the developers of ZoomText and Window-Eyes have >sinced MERGED into one company. In the months and years to come, >you may jolly well find that Window-Eyes and ZoomText will play ball >better if they can iron out all the kinks they're working on. > >I don't place my choice or trust in screen reader capabilities on >what accessibility gurus say; rather, I venture out and try things >out or myself, make my own assessment, and draw my own >conclusions! I'll urge you to consider creating the time to do the same. > >You can reach the ZoomText/Window-Eyes folks by calling: > >1-802-362-3612. > >They should be able to tell you how you can get a demo copy of their >products to play with at your own leisure. > >Lastly, NVDA--Nonvisual Desktop Access--is slowly winning the hearts >and minds of screen reader users and may become a real contender in >the market place soon if plans DO NOT go awry. What's more, it's >free! I have NO ILL-FEELINGS towards Jaws, but it is wrong to >assume that it is the be-all and end-all for screen reader users! > >Sincerely, >Olusegun >Denver, Colorado From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jul 8 19:27:25 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 19:27:25 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: References: <46661ABB9D3F4DE7A2E08975189CEE2F@RodTHINK> Message-ID: Thanks so much to all for all the wonderful input from the list. The biggest battles we face in my office as a governmental agency seem to be from budget woes and the need for inexpensive / quick fixes - two things that always seem to work directly against accessibility accommodations for the few of us that need them, at least in the mindset of the number-crunchers. It's nice to know that my belief that ADA should cover things isn't completely off-base. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 12:14 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: David Andrews Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS You can also load NVDA from a USB drive, each time you want to use it. You should be able to use JAWS, and their objections wouldn't prevail if faced with a serious challenge. However, should you need an alternative before things are worked out, there is the NVDA USB drive alternative. Dave At 12:42 PM 7/8/2015, you wrote: >Thanks - this has been an on-going battle over the last 6 years, and >will likely continue to be so. The first accessibility program I used >was one I purchased myself (WinZoom), when I still had more vision, as >it did not need to be installed on the network as a resident program >but rather loaded daily from a USB. It has been an uphill battle ever >since, especially since the theory of the powers that be is that, >because I have a secretary assigned to me alone (rather than sharing >one with 3 other attorneys, the usual public defender staffing >quotient), she can take care of reading everything to me that does not >work computer-wise. In actual practice, that does not work in the >rapid pace of juvenile court, but there are not so subtle reminders of >the hiring freeze and budget cuts that are in place to counter my >complaints. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire [mailto:Attorney at alcidonislaw.com] >Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:24 AM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >Yes, you do have a say. This is called reasonable accommodation that is >specifically tailored to you, not to the department unless they can >demonstrate some form of a burden. If your employment is at stake, I >would highly encourage that you contact an attorney in your area to >fire a letter to them to put them on notice and let them proceed at >their peril. > >If you can credibly demonstrate that ZoomText is not the tool that is >appropriate to accommodate you, then it is not a reasonable accommodation. >You should not remain idle and let them complete the implementation >-- you should take action right now to protect your interest. > >Good luck. > > >Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 1:05 PM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >I actually do have NVDA loaded at home and at work for when JAWS is not >cooperating, so it is a definite plus. The biggest problems, though, >are whether anything will work on our very messy network, and the fact >that I have absolutely no say in what is eventually chosen by the >County as the preferred vendor / program. > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 9:07 AM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > >Hello Ms. Kelly: > >You wrote in part: > >"My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for >a Windows / Word environment." > >I think that your understanding is a bit misconstrued. Jaws may be the >MOST POPULAR screen reader, but it isn't the only FULL-FEATURED screen >reader in the market place. For instance, I can't use Jaws in my >business because it just DOES NOT track the reading of the various >screens I interact with daily correctly. I'm forced to do constant >screen refreshing and this does slow things down for me considerably. > >Window-Eyes is a major contender in the screen reader market. I have >used this screen reader forever and, sufficing to say, it has been the >one that has KEPT ME substantially gainfully employed if I dare to be >close to being politically correct. > >For the records, the developers of ZoomText and Window-Eyes have sinced >MERGED into one company. In the months and years to come, you may >jolly well find that Window-Eyes and ZoomText will play ball better if >they can iron out all the kinks they're working on. > >I don't place my choice or trust in screen reader capabilities on what >accessibility gurus say; rather, I venture out and try things out or >myself, make my own assessment, and draw my own conclusions! I'll urge >you to consider creating the time to do the same. > >You can reach the ZoomText/Window-Eyes folks by calling: > >1-802-362-3612. > >They should be able to tell you how you can get a demo copy of their >products to play with at your own leisure. > >Lastly, NVDA--Nonvisual Desktop Access--is slowly winning the hearts >and minds of screen reader users and may become a real contender in the >market place soon if plans DO NOT go awry. What's more, it's free! I >have NO ILL-FEELINGS towards Jaws, but it is wrong to assume that it is >the be-all and end-all for screen reader users! > >Sincerely, >Olusegun >Denver, Colorado _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From steve.jacobson at visi.com Wed Jul 8 22:44:27 2015 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 17:44:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS In-Reply-To: <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> References: <6E5DF7BE752745929FE69BD6F2D0D3FF@RodTHINK> Message-ID: <20150708174423.451A.787A7A2@visi.com> It was mentioned at our convention that ZoomText and Window-Eyes are "getting married." I wonder if they got wind of that? Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 11:03:20 -0400 "Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via blindlaw" wrote: > The point not being made here is that ZoomText is not a screen reading program in the sense that JAWS, NVDA, and Window Eyes are. There is a gross misunderstanding about the technology if someone were to say that you can replace the functionality of JAWS with ZoomText. They are not the same thing at all. > > I don't believe any totally blind person should agree to that form of accomodation. > > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > > -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:26 AM > To: 'Anita Keith-Foust' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Susan Kelly > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > > Thanks for the contact name. If this happens, I will be sure to pass along the information to the techs from IT assigned to our agency. > > My bigger fear is the learning curve, as the only time that I will have to learn this program, if it is determined to be what will be provided, is when I am at home. I run JAWS and MAGic at home, which were initially provided to me by the state VocRehab agency, along with the training to learn JAWS basics. Because my case is now considered closed, and because I am too young (or too old, being already employed) to be a priority for re-opening the VocRehab case, that also means learning without the program available to me to practice on, unless I take time away from my family and ask them to bring me to the office after hours and on weekends. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anita Keith-Foust [mailto:anitakeithfoust at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 7:10 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Susan Kelly; AnitaKeithFoust at gmail.com > Subject: RE: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > > Dear Susan: > > If you have to use ZoomText, get to know the technical support person named Lloyd. He is the best and he takes time with you. He is very patient and helpful. > > ZoomText only reads text, not pictures of text. This will be the first problem that you will run into. > > If there is any way possible, get them to keep JAWS. I do not understand why they would eliminate JAWS rather than just adding ZoomText. Make sure that they get ZoomText with Speech. > > I hope this helps. > > Thank you. > > Anita Keith-Foust > 919-430-1978 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 7:18 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Susan Kelly > Subject: [blindlaw] ZoomText versus JAWS > > The IT department for our county appears to be considering replacing the JAWS ply MAGic accessibility package I use, to replace it with ZoomText. I still have a small amount of useful vision, but this is a progressive condition and within a few years (or sooner), I will be completely reliant on screen narration. I am trying to learn Braille in the interim, but as a busy assistant public defender in the juvenile courts, time is not my friend. > > My understanding is that JAWS is the most full-featured narration for a Windows / Word environment. This change is primarily due to the fact that the county does not want to permit me any variance from the standard (and definitely not unique, but definitely incompatible with adaptive software) network environment that is run here. Will ZoomText provide me with the same benefits as JAWS? Also, how / where can I learn the necessary keyboard commands, as I will almost certainly have to do this in my "free" time at home? > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com -- <> From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 15:35:44 2015 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 11:35:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions Message-ID: Hi all, I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's a blank document. Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated. Best, Laura On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > Hi folks, > > For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes > in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read > them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in > these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it > my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I > did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second > document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even > this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing > source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. > > Best, > Chris > > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal > Co-President, American Constitution Society > President, Election Law Society > California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 15:49:57 2015 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 21:19:57 +0530 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9087CF6A-74AD-42FD-BC4F-06AD6814DC4C@gmail.com> Hi Laura, Insofar as the OCR functionality provided by JAWS is concerned, you need to press insert+space to activate what is called layered mode. You can then press o for starting the OCR process, but you have to press a specific key after that depending on what it is that you want to perform the OCR operation on i.e. w for windows; s for screen, etc. So for instance, if you want to perform the ocr operation on the current window, you need to press insert+ space followed by o and w. I should note that JAWS automatically switches to the jaws cursor when you do this, so the text is read by a rather muffled and unpleasant voice. Jaws' ocr functionality should help, but this is a genuine accessibility challenge, so I would get the line numbers verified by a sighted person before submitting the assignment if I were you. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:05 PM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having > trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is > preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not > been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable > success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's > a blank document. > > Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line > numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file > would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some > sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find > it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more > digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would > be greatly appreciated. > > Best, > > Laura > >> On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes >> in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read >> them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in >> these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it >> my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I >> did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second >> document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even >> this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing >> source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. >> >> Best, >> Chris >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris K. Stewart >> University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal >> Co-President, American Constitution Society >> President, Election Law Society >> California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 >> Ph: >> (502)457-1757 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 18:36:03 2015 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 14:36:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions In-Reply-To: <9087CF6A-74AD-42FD-BC4F-06AD6814DC4C@gmail.com> References: <9087CF6A-74AD-42FD-BC4F-06AD6814DC4C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <206A4129-B8AC-456E-B9A9-C1E51770FA35@gmail.com> hi Laura: The best way to do an entire PDF with JFW's "convenient OCR" is to use insert+space, o, d (for "document"). Having said that, When I used this feature on a contract I was reviewing, it didn't preserve the item numbers. I've had better luck with Abbyy Finereader, which generally (but not always) preserves section numbers. If you have an assistant, I would confirm your references before submitting the assignment. I hope this helps. Angie Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Rahul Bajaj via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi Laura, > > Insofar as the OCR functionality provided by JAWS is concerned, you need to press insert+space to activate what is called layered mode. You can then press o for starting the OCR process, but you have to press a specific key after that depending on what it is that you want to perform the OCR operation on i.e. w for windows; s for screen, etc. So for instance, if you want to perform the ocr operation on the current window, you need to press insert+ space followed by o and w. I should note that JAWS automatically switches to the jaws cursor when you do this, so the text is read by a rather muffled and unpleasant voice. > Jaws' ocr functionality should help, but this is a genuine accessibility challenge, so I would get the line numbers verified by a sighted person before submitting the assignment if I were you. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:05 PM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having >> trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is >> preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not >> been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable >> success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's >> a blank document. >> >> Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line >> numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file >> would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some >> sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find >> it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more >> digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would >> be greatly appreciated. >> >> Best, >> >> Laura >> >>> On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes >>> in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read >>> them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in >>> these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it >>> my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I >>> did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second >>> document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even >>> this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing >>> source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. >>> >>> Best, >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chris K. Stewart >>> University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >>> Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal >>> Co-President, American Constitution Society >>> President, Election Law Society >>> California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 >>> Ph: >>> (502)457-1757 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Laura Wolk >> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> (484) 695-8234 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 10 05:32:03 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 22:32:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A scanned copy of the deposition is not going to work as well for you as there will be some changes due to formatting. As a paralegal I frequently have to summarize depositions for attorneys and I work from the actual copy of the transcript that has been transcribed. This should be readily available to you either from the attorney or the court reporter that transcribed the deposition. These transcripts are prepared usually as a Word document and are done with the lines numbered so they are easy to follow. As most law firms receive transcripts electronically it is surprising that you weren't furnished with the actual transcript. Chuck Krugman, MSW, Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 -----Original Message----- From: Laura Wolk via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2015 8:35 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions Hi all, I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's a blank document. Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated. Best, Laura On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > Hi folks, > > For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes > in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read > them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in > these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it > my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I > did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second > document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even > this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing > source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. > > Best, > Chris > > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal > Co-President, American Constitution Society > President, Election Law Society > California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 10 05:34:59 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 22:34:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions In-Reply-To: <9087CF6A-74AD-42FD-BC4F-06AD6814DC4C@gmail.com> References: <9087CF6A-74AD-42FD-BC4F-06AD6814DC4C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02EA7DD97501459E81704A0E11754361@Spike> I would not rely on the JAWS OCR feature for this purpose as the results would not be specific enough for what you are needing. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2015 8:49 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Rahul Bajaj Subject: Re: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions Hi Laura, Insofar as the OCR functionality provided by JAWS is concerned, you need to press insert+space to activate what is called layered mode. You can then press o for starting the OCR process, but you have to press a specific key after that depending on what it is that you want to perform the OCR operation on i.e. w for windows; s for screen, etc. So for instance, if you want to perform the ocr operation on the current window, you need to press insert+ space followed by o and w. I should note that JAWS automatically switches to the jaws cursor when you do this, so the text is read by a rather muffled and unpleasant voice. Jaws' ocr functionality should help, but this is a genuine accessibility challenge, so I would get the line numbers verified by a sighted person before submitting the assignment if I were you. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:05 PM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw > wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having > trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is > preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not > been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable > success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's > a blank document. > > Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line > numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file > would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some > sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find > it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more > digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would > be greatly appreciated. > > Best, > > Laura > >> On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >> wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes >> in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read >> them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in >> these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it >> my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I >> did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second >> document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even >> this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing >> source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. >> >> Best, >> Chris >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris K. Stewart >> University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal >> Co-President, American Constitution Society >> President, Election Law Society >> California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 >> Ph: >> (502)457-1757 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From taiablas at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 13:11:12 2015 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:11:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions In-Reply-To: <9087CF6A-74AD-42FD-BC4F-06AD6814DC4C@gmail.com> References: <9087CF6A-74AD-42FD-BC4F-06AD6814DC4C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <383F443F-6DB1-433C-BD91-42E111218319@gmail.com> Just as a side note, you can change the jaws cursor voice to a more pleasant one. Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. > On Jul 9, 2015, at 10:49 AM, Rahul Bajaj via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi Laura, > > Insofar as the OCR functionality provided by JAWS is concerned, you need to press insert+space to activate what is called layered mode. You can then press o for starting the OCR process, but you have to press a specific key after that depending on what it is that you want to perform the OCR operation on i.e. w for windows; s for screen, etc. So for instance, if you want to perform the ocr operation on the current window, you need to press insert+ space followed by o and w. I should note that JAWS automatically switches to the jaws cursor when you do this, so the text is read by a rather muffled and unpleasant voice. > Jaws' ocr functionality should help, but this is a genuine accessibility challenge, so I would get the line numbers verified by a sighted person before submitting the assignment if I were you. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:05 PM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having >> trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is >> preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not >> been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable >> success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's >> a blank document. >> >> Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line >> numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file >> would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some >> sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find >> it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more >> digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would >> be greatly appreciated. >> >> Best, >> >> Laura >> >>> On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes >>> in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read >>> them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in >>> these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it >>> my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I >>> did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second >>> document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even >>> this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing >>> source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. >>> >>> Best, >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chris K. Stewart >>> University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >>> Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal >>> Co-President, American Constitution Society >>> President, Election Law Society >>> California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 >>> Ph: >>> (502)457-1757 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Laura Wolk >> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> (484) 695-8234 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From taiablas at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 13:13:20 2015 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:13:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96730303-6C21-4179-AB8A-12DC6B925DB7@gmail.com> Like Angie, I have had the best luck with abyy FineReader. You Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. > On Jul 10, 2015, at 12:32 AM, Charles Krugman via blindlaw wrote: > > A scanned copy of the deposition is not going to work as well for you as there will be some changes due to formatting. As a paralegal I frequently have to summarize depositions for attorneys and I work from the actual copy of the transcript that has been transcribed. This should be readily available to you either from the attorney or the court reporter that transcribed the deposition. These transcripts are prepared usually as a Word document and are done with the lines numbered so they are easy to follow. As most law firms receive transcripts electronically it is surprising that you weren't furnished with the actual transcript. > Chuck Krugman, MSW, Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > > -----Original Message----- From: Laura Wolk via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2015 8:35 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions > > Hi all, > > I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having > trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is > preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not > been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable > success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's > a blank document. > > Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line > numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file > would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some > sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find > it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more > digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would > be greatly appreciated. > > Best, > > Laura > >> On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes >> in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read >> them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in >> these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it >> my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I >> did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second >> document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even >> this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing >> source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. >> >> Best, >> Chris >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris K. Stewart >> University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal >> Co-President, American Constitution Society >> President, Election Law Society >> California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 >> Ph: >> (502)457-1757 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From jtwauthier at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 17:18:13 2015 From: jtwauthier at gmail.com (Jad Wauthier) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 12:18:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] School District and State out of ADA compliance Please assist In-Reply-To: <1616156492.2498013.1434158927743.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1616156492.2498013.1434158927743.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55A14FD5.1030003@gmail.com> Misty, Did you ever find someone to help you? Jad Wauthier On 6/12/2015 8:28 PM, M BG via blindlaw wrote: > To all, I am a legally blind mother of twoautistic boys in San Diego CA and need some guidance regarding IEP due process filing and ADAforms. One of my son’s elementary school is attemptingto transfer him from his current school to his school of record which is a loftclassrooms setting. A loft classroom is 6 classrooms in one buildingsub-divided by half walls. This environment is NOT the appropriate educational settingfor my son to thrive in. I am in the process of filing for due process underthe IDEA. The issue is that not only does thedistrict NOT have ADA fillable forms for me to utilize, being visually impaired, butalso the state does not have them. I am hindered by this in that this is notfair access to the forms I need to advocate for my son. Additionally, the instructions on howto obtain this form in the “Notice of Procedural Safeguards” are incorrect. Theseinstructions are being provided to all the parents that are dealing with IEPsand is preventing them from easily obtaining them for filing for due process. Onehas to phone the district office and attempt to track the correct person in chargeof their school and have them email it. This is time consuming and tedious,complicate this in my case by lack of vision and you have a very messy issue. Does anyone have any advice to assistme on how to get a fillable copy or deal with the district and state to ensurefair accessibility to this form for not only myself but others? Kindest regards,Misty B-G > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtwauthier%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 21:58:52 2015 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 17:58:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions In-Reply-To: <96730303-6C21-4179-AB8A-12DC6B925DB7@gmail.com> References: <96730303-6C21-4179-AB8A-12DC6B925DB7@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, all, for your suggestions. Chuck, I was able to get the MSWord file, so thanks for that helpful sadvice. Laura On 7/10/15, Tai Blas via blindlaw wrote: > Like Angie, I have had the best luck with abyy FineReader. You > > Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A > Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com > Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. > >> On Jul 10, 2015, at 12:32 AM, Charles Krugman via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> A scanned copy of the deposition is not going to work as well for you as >> there will be some changes due to formatting. As a paralegal I frequently >> have to summarize depositions for attorneys and I work from the actual >> copy of the transcript that has been transcribed. This should be readily >> available to you either from the attorney or the court reporter that >> transcribed the deposition. These transcripts are prepared usually as a >> Word document and are done with the lines numbered so they are easy to >> follow. As most law firms receive transcripts electronically it is >> surprising that you weren't furnished with the actual transcript. >> Chuck Krugman, MSW, Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Laura Wolk via blindlaw >> Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2015 8:35 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having >> trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is >> preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not >> been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable >> success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's >> a blank document. >> >> Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line >> numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file >> would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some >> sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find >> it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more >> digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would >> be greatly appreciated. >> >> Best, >> >> Laura >> >>> On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >>> wrote: >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes >>> in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read >>> them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in >>> these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it >>> my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I >>> did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second >>> document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even >>> this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing >>> source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. >>> >>> Best, >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chris K. Stewart >>> University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >>> Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal >>> Co-President, American Constitution Society >>> President, Election Law Society >>> California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 >>> Ph: >>> (502)457-1757 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Laura Wolk >> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> (484) 695-8234 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From al.elia at aol.com Mon Jul 13 10:37:37 2015 From: al.elia at aol.com (ALBERT ELIA) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 12:37:37 +0200 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D7E37CE-6C59-4C37-9ED8-6630D6AD4FD1@aol.com> I recall that the depos in the AG's office came in a proprietary format, and that the West depo reader program offered an "export to ASCII" option that spat out a text file with line numbers perfectly aligned with the text. Perhaps try that? On Jul 9, 2015, at 5:35 PM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: > Hi all, > > I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having > trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is > preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not > been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable > success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's > a blank document. > > Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line > numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file > would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some > sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find > it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more > digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would > be greatly appreciated. > > Best, > > Laura > > On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes >> in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read >> them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in >> these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it >> my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I >> did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second >> document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even >> this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing >> source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. >> >> Best, >> Chris >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris K. Stewart >> University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal >> Co-President, American Constitution Society >> President, Election Law Society >> California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 >> Ph: >> (502)457-1757 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 11:29:38 2015 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:38 +0530 Subject: [blindlaw] line numbering on depositions In-Reply-To: <383F443F-6DB1-433C-BD91-42E111218319@gmail.com> References: <9087CF6A-74AD-42FD-BC4F-06AD6814DC4C@gmail.com> <383F443F-6DB1-433C-BD91-42E111218319@gmail.com> Message-ID: Tai, Yes, I just found out how that can be achieved. It is an incredibly helpful feature. BEST, Rahul On 10/07/2015, Tai Blas via blindlaw wrote: > Just as a side note, you can change the jaws cursor voice to a more pleasant > one. > > Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A > Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com > Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. > >> On Jul 9, 2015, at 10:49 AM, Rahul Bajaj via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> Hi Laura, >> >> Insofar as the OCR functionality provided by JAWS is concerned, you need >> to press insert+space to activate what is called layered mode. You can >> then press o for starting the OCR process, but you have to press a >> specific key after that depending on what it is that you want to perform >> the OCR operation on i.e. w for windows; s for screen, etc. So for >> instance, if you want to perform the ocr operation on the current window, >> you need to press insert+ space followed by o and w. I should note that >> JAWS automatically switches to the jaws cursor when you do this, so the >> text is read by a rather muffled and unpleasant voice. >> Jaws' ocr functionality should help, but this is a genuine accessibility >> challenge, so I would get the line numbers verified by a sighted person >> before submitting the assignment if I were you. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:05 PM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am working with depositions for the first time, but am having >>> trouble figuring out how to read a copy where the line numbering is >>> preserved so that I can cite to it correctly. The pdf copies have not >>> been ocr'd. I tried opening them in k1000 with moderate but unreliable >>> success. when I try opening them in the pdf editor, it just says it's >>> a blank document. >>> >>> Any assistance with either how to use Kurzweil to preserve line >>> numbering or how to get another pdf program to recognize the file >>> would be greatly appreciated. I know new versions of jaws have some >>> sort of OCR functionality built in; I've been looking but can't find >>> it. This assignment has a short turn around, otherwise I would do more >>> digging myself before asking on-list. Any assistance or advice would >>> be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Laura >>> >>>> On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >>>> wrote: >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes >>>> in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read >>>> them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in >>>> these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it >>>> my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I >>>> did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second >>>> document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even >>>> this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing >>>> source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chris K. Stewart >>>> University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >>>> Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal >>>> Co-President, American Constitution Society >>>> President, Election Law Society >>>> California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 >>>> Ph: >>>> (502)457-1757 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Laura Wolk >>> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >>> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >>> (484) 695-8234 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jul 13 16:59:37 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:59:37 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Seattle University-Job Announcement - HR Investigator & Compliance Specialist/Deputy Title IX Coordinator Message-ID: Hi, would it be possible to announce our HR Investigator & Compliance Specialist/Deputy Title IX Coordinator opening with your association? https://jobs.seattleu.edu/postings/17933 Thank you and have a great weekend, Isa Isa Chong | Human Resources Consultant SEATTLE UNIVERSITY | 901 12th Avenue, Seattle, WA 98122-1090 (T): 206.296.5865 | (F): 206.296.2100 | ichong at seattleu.edu From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jul 13 17:01:16 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:01:16 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Washington State Attorney General's Office -- More AAG Opportunities Message-ID: From: Nakamura, Linda (ATG) [mailto:LindaP2 at ATG.WA.GOV] Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 3:33 PM Subject: WA AGO -- More AAG Opportunities and Open House Importance: High Greetings. The Attorney General's Office has more attorney opportunities available and we are hoping you'd be willing to share with your colleagues/membership. Thank you!!! Managing AAG - Consumer Protection Division in Seattle - Deadline: Until filled; first review July 10, 2015 (this is a last reminder) AAG - Labor and Personnel Division in Olympia - Deadline: 7/30/15 AAG - Regional Services Division in Yakima - Deadline: 7/17/15 or until filled AAG - Spokane Division's Corrections/Civil Rights Unit - Deadline: 7/21/15 Also, I wanted to share with you the details of our Open House that we will be hosting in our Tumwater/Olympia office. It will be held from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. on Tuesday, August 4th. The attached flyer provides a few more details, including the address. As always, thank you very much for your support! Linda Nakamura Linda Nakamura Attorney Recruitment Administrator Washington State Attorney General's Office 800 Fifth Avenue, Suite 2000 Seattle, WA 98104 (206) 464-6446 Contents of this e-mail may be privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination, or use of this e-mail or its contents by other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact me and delete it. In consideration and preservation of our natural resources, please print this e-mail only if necessary. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2015Attorney-Recruitment-Open-House-Flyer.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 512325 bytes Desc: 2015Attorney-Recruitment-Open-House-Flyer.pdf URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jul 13 17:34:47 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:34:47 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies Update In-Reply-To: <17504085.494@public.govdelivery.com> References: <17504085.494@public.govdelivery.com> Message-ID: From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com] Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2015 9:17 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Attorney Vacancies Update [Image removed by sender. U.S. Department of Justice] You are subscribed to Attorney Vacancies for U.S. Department of Justice. This page has recently been updated with the following new information: Deputy Chief 07/09/2015 11:43 AM EDT Civil Rights Division (CRT) Special Litigation Section Washington, DC Announcement #: 15-ATT-018 Application Deadline: July 28, 2015 The incumbent will be responsible for duties such as, but not limited to: (1) supervising sensitive and/or complex investigations, litigation, and negotiations; (2) reviewing, editing, and approving extensive written work product; (3) supervising and mentoring attorneys and other Section staff working in the area of HCFAC and Olmstead enforcement; (4) working with the Section Chief and management team to develop and establish strategies and priorities for HCFAC and Olmstead enforcement; (5) coordinating with other federal agencies to develop strategies for effective and efficient information sharing and case referrals; (6) supervising and conducting outreach activities; and (7) undertaking various administrative duties, including evaluating attorneys and staff and performing non-litigating assignments and special projects assigned by the Chief or other officials in the Division. The incumbent will be responsible for supervising: screening and development of new matters; comprehensive investigations involving in-person visits, witness interviews, experts, data analysis, and preparation of written recommendations and legal analyses; litigation involving all aspects of the Section's enforcement under HCFAC and Olmstead; the negotiation, monitoring, and enforcement of settlement agreements; and attorney and staff development. Litigation associated with the Section's investigations is typically complex, involving extensive discovery, pretrial motions practice, preliminary injunction hearings, trials, and post-judgment enforcement and contempt proceedings. Assistant United States Attorney 07/09/2015 11:12 AM EDT USAO Southern District of Illinois Fairview Heights, IL Announcement #: SDIL-15-03 Application Deadline: July 15, 2015 The United States Attorney's Office for the Southern District of Illinois is seeking applications from attorneys who are willing to accept a temporary position as an Assistant U.S. Attorney (AUSA) in the Criminal Division in the Fairview Heights office. The AUSA's responsibilities will include researching legal issues, drafting briefs, conducting hearings and trials, and attending judicial proceedings. This is a temporary position, not-to-exceed 6 months. This position may be extended or made permanent without further competition. ________________________________ [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] Follow DOJ on Twitter. | [Image removed by sender. FaceBook icon] Like DOJ on Facebook. | [Image removed by sender. YouTube] Follow DOJ on YouTube. ________________________________ You have received this e-mail because you have asked to be notified of changes to the U.S. Department of Justice website. GovDelivery is providing this service on behalf of the Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW * Washington, DC 20530 * 202-514-2000 and may not use your subscription information for any other purposes. Manage your Subscriptions | Department of Justice Privacy Policy | GovDelivery Privacy Policy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 930 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jul 13 17:49:48 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:49:48 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies Update In-Reply-To: <17503185.495@public.govdelivery.com> References: <17503185.495@public.govdelivery.com> Message-ID: From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:18 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Attorney Vacancies Update [Image removed by sender. U.S. Department of Justice] You are subscribed to Attorney Vacancies for U.S. Department of Justice. This page has recently been updated with the following new information: Deputy Assistant Attorney General 07/08/2015 12:10 PM EDT Civil Rights Division (CRT) Office of the Assistant Attorney General Washington, DC Announcement #: 15-SES-CRD-007 Application Deadline: July 13, 2015 As authorized or directed by the Component Head, the incumbent will perform all duties assigned or required to execute the programmatic, legal and administrative agenda of the Office of the Assistant Attorney General related to the Division's mission, including some or all of the following: providing leadership and supervising the work of the Division's Criminal Section and Special Litigation Section, reviewing legal documents such as briefs, recommendations for or against appeals, pleadings, etc.; working through subordinate Section Chiefs, managing assigned sections and the Division as a whole; representing the Component Head in contacts with heads and staff of other departments and agencies, members of Congress, representatives and counsel for defendants, non-governmental organizations, and other stakeholders with respect to matters under the jurisdiction of the Division; conferring with, advising, and instructing senior members of the CRT, and other division and Department of Justice (Department) attorneys on matters relating to the enforcement of statutes, executive orders, and other regulations assigned to the CRT; and providing advice on policy matters and strategy to be employed in trial preparation, the conduct of both criminal and civil litigation, or Division business more generally. ________________________________ [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] Follow DOJ on Twitter. | [Image removed by sender. FaceBook icon] Like DOJ on Facebook. | [Image removed by sender. YouTube] Follow DOJ on YouTube. ________________________________ You have received this e-mail because you have asked to be notified of changes to the U.S. Department of Justice website. GovDelivery is providing this service on behalf of the Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW * Washington, DC 20530 * 202-514-2000 and may not use your subscription information for any other purposes. Manage your Subscriptions | Department of Justice Privacy Policy | GovDelivery Privacy Policy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 930 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From 711jll at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 15:26:28 2015 From: 711jll at gmail.com (Jermesa Lee) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:26:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking A Lawyer Message-ID: Greetings, I could use some insight on the following two items: for I am only familiar with family law, due to me being a family court mediator. First, I am seeking a lawyer that specialize in entertainment law or corporate law. I am in Florida, so I would need someone that is familiar with Florida law in regards to the two areas. If anyone is interested, please contact me off list at 711jll at gmail.com. I am also open to recommendations Second, may someone inform me what is the current going rate for such a lawyer? I don't want to get taken advantage of. I have started my research via google, but I thought who better to ask than the experts themselves. If anyone have some insight they can pass my way, it would be greatly appreciated. -- God Bless, Jermesa Lee, M.A, CRC From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Jul 14 16:24:53 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:24:53 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Costco Job Announcement In-Reply-To: <046f01d0be08$3c913730$b5b3a590$@initiativefordiversitywa.org> References: <046f01d0be08$3c913730$b5b3a590$@initiativefordiversitywa.org> Message-ID: From: Erica Chung [mailto:director at initiativefordiversitywa.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 12:40 AM To: 'Lisa Dickinson'; 'Elaine Edralin Pascua'; alex.oh at stoel.com; 'Chach'; 'Jamal Whitehead'; omar at nurlaw.com; president at mamaseattle.org; joseph.a.evans at gmail.com; 'Sumona, Das Gupta'; 'Penny Youde'; Awong at pivotallawgroup.com; Nightingale, Noel; Elisabeth.McNeil at klgates.com Cc: 'Neal'; nlim at trueblueinc.com; 'Chalia Stallings-Alailima'; 'Kerem Murat Levitas'; Dana Tumenova; michelleqpham at gmail.com; Nga.nguyen at docusign.com Subject: Costco Job Announcement Please share the Costco job announcement with your network. Thank you. Costco Wholesale seeks an experienced employment attorney who will counsel the company on all U.S. employment matters and supervise employment litigation. Applicants should have a minimum of seven years of relevant law firm and/or in-house experience. Reports to Corporate Counsel for employment matters. Excellent written and oral communication skills for advising lawyers and non-lawyers are necessary, as is a demonstrated ability to work independently and in a team environment. Please send cover letter and resume. Erica S. Chung Executive Director cell: (206)720-4996 fax: (866) 486-6670 director at initiativefordiversitywa.org WA INITIATIVE FOR DIVERSITY | Post Office Box 1985 ● Seattle, Washington 98111-1985 | www.initiativefordiversitywa.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Employment Attorney 7.8.15.doc Type: application/msword Size: 44032 bytes Desc: Employment Attorney 7.8.15.doc URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Jul 14 18:38:32 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:38:32 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: New ADA technical assistance document published: Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA In-Reply-To: <17506829.919@public.govdelivery.com> References: <17506829.919@public.govdelivery.com> Message-ID: Thought this might be of interest to this list. From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com] Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 3:12 PM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: New ADA technical assistance document published: Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA The Department of Justice has published a new 9-page ADA technical assistance document, Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA | PDF, to further assist covered entities and people with disabilities to understand how the ADA's service animal provisions apply to them. The document answers questions that continue to be asked since the publication of the Department's 2011 document, Revised ADA Requirements: Service Animals. To find out more about the ADA, visit ADA.gov or call the Department's toll-free ADA Information Line at 1-800-514-0301 or 1-800-514-0383 (TDD). ________________________________ [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] Follow DOJ on Twitter. | [Image removed by sender. FaceBook icon] Like DOJ on Facebook. | [Image removed by sender. YouTube] Follow DOJ on YouTube. ________________________________ You have received this e-mail because you have asked to be notified of changes to the U.S. Department of Justice website. GovDelivery is providing this service on behalf of the Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW * Washington, DC 20530 * 202-514-2000 and may not use your subscription information for any other purposes. Manage your Subscriptions | Department of Justice Privacy Policy | GovDelivery Privacy Policy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV Wed Jul 15 13:36:54 2015 From: Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV (Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR)) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 13:36:54 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Vacancy Announcement posted to USAJOBS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI. /s/ Bennett Prows From: OCR HIPAA Privacy Rule information distribution [mailto:OCR-PRIVACY-LIST at LIST.NIH.GOV] On Behalf Of OS OCR PrivacyList, OCR (HHS/OS) Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:16 AM To: OCR-PRIVACY-LIST at LIST.NIH.GOV Subject: Vacancy Announcement posted to USAJOBS Become a part of the Department that touches the lives of every American! At the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) you can give back to your community, state, and country by making a difference in the lives of Americans everywhere. It is the principal agency for protecting the health of citizens. Join HHS and help make our world healthier, safer; and better for all Americans. For more information click on the link below or go to http://www.usajobs.gov and enter the corresponding job announcement number. Titles and job announcement numbers: Title: Equal Opportunity Specialist GS-12 Location: Please see below Open: July 10, 2015 Close: July 23, 2015 3 vacancies in Atlanta HHS-OCR-DE-15-1451720: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/409219200 HHS-OCR-MP-15-1451699: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/409214000 1 vacancy in Chicago, IL HHS-OCR-MP-15-1454005: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/409494800 HHS-OCR-DE-15-1453998: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/409494300 2 vacancies in Boston, MA HHS-OCR-DE-15-1454001: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/409499300 HHS-OCR-MP-15-1454006: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/409505800 1 vacancy in Denver, CO HHS-OCR-DE-15-1454003: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/409508500 HHS-OCR-MP-15-1454007: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/409510700 ### ________________________________________________________________________________________________________ This email is being sent to you from the OCR-Privacy-List listserv, operated by the Office for Civil Rights (OCR) in the US Department of Health and Human Services. This is an announce-only list, a resource to distribute information about the HIPAA Privacy and Security Rules. For additional information on a wide range of topics about the Privacy and Security Rules, please visit the OCR Privacy website at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/index.html. You can also call the OCR Privacy toll-free phone line at (866) 627-7748. Information about OCR's civil rights authorities and responsibilities can be found on the OCR home page at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/office/index.html. If you believe that a person or organization covered by the Privacy and Security Rules (a "covered entity") violated your health information privacy rights or otherwise violated the Privacy or Security Rules, you may file a complaint with OCR. For additional information about how to file a complaint, visit OCR's web page on filing complaints at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/complaints/index.html. To subscribe to or unsubscribe from the list serv, go to https://list.nih.gov/cgi-bin/wa.exe?SUBED1=OCR-PRIVACY-LIST&A=1. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Jul 17 17:28:05 2015 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 11:28:05 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice/Announcing the HP/SLIP Application In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <016d01d0c0b5$f117d970$d3478c50$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) [mailto:DOJlawjobs at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 10:56 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice/Announcing the HP/SLIP Application Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website: http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. At Justice, diversity extends beyond race and gender. It includes differences in culture, ethnicity, economics, status as a veteran, generations, geography, sexual orientation, and includes individuals with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice, and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. What's new? * The online application for the Attorney General's Honors Program (HP) and the Summer Law Intern Program (SLIP) opens July 31, 2015. The deadline for law students and eligible graduates to apply is Tuesday, September 8, 2015. Honors Program information and a link to the application is at http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/entry-level-attorneys. SLIP information and a link to the application is at http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/summer-law-intern-program. Please spread the word about these exciting legal hiring programs and opportunities to join the United States Department of Justice! Details regarding the participating components, program eligibility guidelines, and application instructions can be found at http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. * New Mobile App! Get the latest information about legal careers at Justice with our mobile app, DOJ Law Jobs. Users can quickly and easily create personalized job searches based on practice area, geographic preference, and hiring organization. DOJ Law Jobs is available for free on iTunes for Apple iPhone and iPad, and the Play Store for Android devices. USAO Eastern District of Virginia Assistant United States Attorney VA 07/16/2015 Office of Privacy and Civil Liberties (OPCL) Director, Office of Privacy and Civil Liberties DC 07/15/2015 USAO Western District of Texas Assistant United States Attorney TX 07/15/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Trial Attorney DC 07/15/2015 Office of Privacy and Civil Liberties (OPCL) Law Student Volunteer, Academic Year DC 07/15/2015 USAO District of Maryland Assistant United States Attorney MD 07/15/2015 USAO District of Maryland Assistant United States Attorney MD 07/15/2015 Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Senior Attorney Advisor HI 07/15/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Program Manager, Western Hemisphere Programs DC 07/15/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Resident Legal Advisor 07/15/2015 USAO Eastern District of California Assistant United States Attorney CA 07/15/2015 USAO Eastern District of California Assistant United States Attorney CA 07/15/2015 USAO Eastern District of California Assistant United States Attorney CA 07/15/2015 Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Deputy General Counsel DC 07/14/2015 Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) General Attorney AL 07/14/2015 Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) General Attorney DC 07/14/2015 Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) Supervisory Attorney VA 07/14/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Resident Legal Advisor 07/14/2015 Antitrust Division (ATR) Trial Attorney DC 07/14/2015 USAO District of New Jersey Assistant United States Attorney (Residential Mortgage-Backed Securities) TERM NTE 9/30/2017 NJ 07/14/2015 Environment and Natural Resources Division (ENRD) Trial Attorney DC 07/14/2015 National Security Division (NSD) Attorney Advisor DC 07/13/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Experienced Trial Attorney DC 07/13/2015 USAO Eastern District of California Supervisory Assistant United States Attorney CA 07/13/2015 The U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Attorney Recruitment and Management, continuously updates its outreach list for the distribution of attorney and legal intern vacancy announcements. If you would like to continue receiving these emails from the Department of Justice, please respond to this email with UPDATE in the subject line and provide the updated contact information listed below. If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Sun Jul 19 19:43:20 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 14:43:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook Message-ID: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Hello everyone, I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how to format legal documents correctly. Any feedback is appreciated. Best, Michal From laura.wolk at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 21:53:54 2015 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 17:53:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: Michal, I use the online bluebook quite frequently. It is very navigable, and is good for many things, including doublechecking your ordering of authorities, looking up definitions, and making sure you have all elements of a citation in the correct order. But it does not identify all font attributes. in particular, it doesn't identify smallcaps, which is used frequently in bluebooking (if I'm wrong on this, someone please correct me. Even if the online version did provide all info, if you have no usable vision in my opinion it is an inefficient use of time if you went through character by character trying to get down all of that information. What I suggest is to meet with your legal research prof (or one of us) and go through the four basic forms that you will need to know in a 1L class--cases, statutes, law review/journal articles, and treatises. If you get these down, figuring out the rest along the way will not be terribly difficult, as you will get familiar with the overall structure and will also learn what to ask a sighted person when and if you need some guidance down the road. Let me know if you'd like any assistance. Laura On 7/19/15, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for my > legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line through > a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this method? If so, did > you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition to eas of navigation, > does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font type, size, color, > bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to know this so that I can > determine whether or not the subscription service is a reliable version of > the book when it comes to learning how to format legal documents correctly. > Any feedback is appreciated. > > > > Best, > > > > Michal > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From davant1958 at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 21:59:39 2015 From: davant1958 at gmail.com (Denise Avant) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 16:59:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: Dear Michal, Here is where a reader might be helpful in addition to the online resource. Denise R. Avant President, National Federation Of The Blind Of Illinois Live the life you want > On Jul 19, 2015, at 4:53 PM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: > > Michal, > > I use the online bluebook quite frequently. It is very navigable, and > is good for many things, including doublechecking your ordering of > authorities, looking up definitions, and making sure you have all > elements of a citation in the correct order. But it does not identify > all font attributes. in particular, it doesn't identify smallcaps, > which is used frequently in bluebooking (if I'm wrong on this, someone > please correct me. > > Even if the online version did provide all info, if you have no usable > vision in my opinion it is an inefficient use of time if you went > through character by character trying to get down all of that > information. What I suggest is to meet with your legal research prof > (or one of us) and go through the four basic forms that you will need > to know in a 1L class--cases, statutes, law review/journal articles, > and treatises. If you get these down, figuring out the rest along the > way will not be terribly difficult, as you will get familiar with the > overall structure and will also learn what to ask a sighted person > when and if you need some guidance down the road. > > Let me know if you'd like any assistance. > > Laura > > On 7/19/15, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for my >> legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line through >> a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this method? If so, did >> you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition to eas of navigation, >> does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font type, size, color, >> bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to know this so that I can >> determine whether or not the subscription service is a reliable version of >> the book when it comes to learning how to format legal documents correctly. >> Any feedback is appreciated. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> Michal >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gmail.com From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Mon Jul 20 00:55:15 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 19:55:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: <000801d0c286$bf11b7c0$3d352740$@icloud.com> Dear Sy, Laura, and Denise, Thank you for your input. Your responses are very helpful. I will be in touch if I need further advice or assistance. Warm Regards, Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Denise Avant via blindlaw Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:00 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Denise Avant Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Dear Michal, Here is where a reader might be helpful in addition to the online resource. Denise R. Avant President, National Federation Of The Blind Of Illinois Live the life you want > On Jul 19, 2015, at 4:53 PM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: > > Michal, > > I use the online bluebook quite frequently. It is very navigable, and > is good for many things, including doublechecking your ordering of > authorities, looking up definitions, and making sure you have all > elements of a citation in the correct order. But it does not identify > all font attributes. in particular, it doesn't identify smallcaps, > which is used frequently in bluebooking (if I'm wrong on this, someone > please correct me. > > Even if the online version did provide all info, if you have no usable > vision in my opinion it is an inefficient use of time if you went > through character by character trying to get down all of that > information. What I suggest is to meet with your legal research prof > (or one of us) and go through the four basic forms that you will need > to know in a 1L class--cases, statutes, law review/journal articles, > and treatises. If you get these down, figuring out the rest along the > way will not be terribly difficult, as you will get familiar with the > overall structure and will also learn what to ask a sighted person > when and if you need some guidance down the road. > > Let me know if you'd like any assistance. > > Laura > > On 7/19/15, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook >> for my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available >> on-line through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using >> this method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in >> addition to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting >> attributes (font type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) >> correctly? I need to know this so that I can determine whether or >> not the subscription service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how to format legal documents correctly. >> Any feedback is appreciated. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> Michal >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm >> ail.com >> > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From chris.stewart at uky.edu Mon Jul 20 12:27:26 2015 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:27:26 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook Message-ID: Michal, If you copy and paste the Bluebook citation from the online system into Microsoft Word, then hit Jaws key plus F, JAWS will read the attributes that the online editor fails to read. This primarily only applies to smallcaps, which you will not use in court documents, but you'll likely need to know for your research/writing course. And, of course, you should strive to be on law review. I completely disagree with the notion that reader would assist you. All a reader would do is strip you of your independence in these matters. I'm an editor on my school's top law review, and in speaking with my sighted friends, the process of sourcing and citing articles is time-consuming and tedious for everyone. In fact, the sighted folks have to go through character by character as well to insure, for instance, that periods are not in small caps. I'm a Bluebooking nerd, and I'd be happy to discuss the online edition with you. By the way, the online edition is really the only useful way, currently, to get really specific information with 100% accuracy. Best, Chris From njaskins at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 12:49:56 2015 From: njaskins at gmail.com (Nicole Askins) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:49:56 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for my > legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line through > a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this method? If so, did > you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition to eas of navigation, > does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font type, size, color, > bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to know this so that I can > determine whether or not the subscription service is a reliable version of > the book when it comes to learning how to format legal documents correctly. > Any feedback is appreciated. > > > > Best, > > > > Michal > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 13:01:57 2015 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 09:01:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understand that I may be opening Pandora's box here, but I feel compelled to respond to this. I am at the top of my class. I am an editor on my law review. i am finishing up the last week of a big law firm internship. I have procured an appellate clerkship post-graduation. I have received the top score on one of my seminar papers. And, my goodness, i asked for sighted help to learn the bluebook. Though I do not usually use the list as an occasion to vaunt my accomplishments, and my intent is not to get into a tit for tat contest with Chris, I am utterly tired of the false and unhelpful notion that there is one, and only one way, to be independent. I was stripped of nothing by asking for a reader's assistance. I simply chose the most efficient way for me, individually, to learn the system. "stripping" would entail me giving my assignment to a reader and saying "do this for me" not asking for assistance to learn the skill in the best and most comprehensive way that fit my needs and learning style. My reader didn't cite check my law review edits. my reader didn't interview for my clerkship, my reader didn't write my paper or fix my citations. What my reader did do was help to build up a foundation so that I could spend my time on each of the above tasks focused on the substance of what was in front of me rather than the minutia of learning what to italicize and what to smallcaps. Do what works best for you, Michal. If that happens to involve a sighted person or, for that matter, as Chris himself offered, speaking to a blind person who will functionally be providing the exact same information and help, go for it. the job in law school is to figure out the best and most efficient process that will allow you to excel. I wish you all the best. PS, if you don't make, or don't try for law review, the world will go on. I promise. Laura On 7/20/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > Michal, > > If you copy and paste the Bluebook citation from the online system > into Microsoft Word, then hit Jaws key plus F, JAWS will read the > attributes that the online editor fails to read. This primarily only > applies to smallcaps, which you will not use in court documents, but > you'll likely need to know for your research/writing course. And, of > course, you should strive to be on law review. > > I completely disagree with the notion that reader would assist you. > All a reader would do is strip you of your independence in these > matters. I'm an editor on my school's top law review, and in speaking > with my sighted friends, the process of sourcing and citing articles > is time-consuming and tedious for everyone. In fact, the sighted folks > have to go through character by character as well to insure, for > instance, that periods are not in small caps. > > I'm a Bluebooking nerd, and I'd be happy to discuss the online edition > with you. By the way, the online edition is really the only useful > way, currently, to get really specific information with 100% accuracy. > > Best, > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov Mon Jul 20 13:03:02 2015 From: Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov (Reyazuddin, Yasmin) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:03:02 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes a big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact Dan Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates with all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you need. Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. Yasmin Reyazuddin Aging & Disability Services Montgomery County Government Department of Health & Human Services 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850 240-777-0311 (MC311) 240-777-1556 (personal) 240-777-1495 (fax) office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Askins via blindlaw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Nicole Askins Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for > my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line > through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this > method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition > to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font > type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to > know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription > service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how to format legal documents correctly. > Any feedback is appreciated. > > > > Best, > > > > Michal > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail > .com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Mon Jul 20 13:50:36 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 09:50:36 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michal, I agree with Chris on this one. While a reader is the short term most efficient way to get through the bluebooking, I would never ask my firm to provide a reader. The more independent you can be, and you can be with the online version of the bluebook, the more likely you are to get a job from a pragmatic standpoint. I believe in the "nature of independence" and understand that being efficient sometimes means using sighted help. But you need to be able to do your job, when possible, when sighted folks aren't around. For example, I was working at 11 p.m. this Saturday on a brief. even if my firm provided a reader, they certainly wouldn't provide one at that hour. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:01 AM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: > > I understand that I may be opening Pandora's box here, but I feel > compelled to respond to this. > > I am at the top of my class. I am an editor on my law review. i am > finishing up the last week of a big law firm internship. I have > procured an appellate clerkship post-graduation. I have received the > top score on one of my seminar papers. And, my goodness, i asked for > sighted help to learn the bluebook. > > Though I do not usually use the list as an occasion to vaunt my > accomplishments, and my intent is not to get into a tit for tat > contest with Chris, I am utterly tired of the false and unhelpful > notion that there is one, and only one way, to be independent. I was > stripped of nothing by asking for a reader's assistance. I simply > chose the most efficient way for me, individually, to learn the > system. "stripping" would entail me giving my assignment to a reader > and saying "do this for me" not asking for assistance to learn the > skill in the best and most comprehensive way that fit my needs and > learning style. My reader didn't cite check my law review edits. my > reader didn't interview for my clerkship, my reader didn't write my > paper or fix my citations. What my reader did do was help to build up > a foundation so that I could spend my time on each of the above tasks > focused on the substance of what was in front of me rather than the > minutia of learning what to italicize and what to smallcaps. > > Do what works best for you, Michal. If that happens to involve a > sighted person or, for that matter, as Chris himself offered, speaking > to a blind person who will functionally be providing the exact same > information and help, go for it. the job in law school is to figure > out the best and most efficient process that will allow you to excel. > I wish you all the best. > PS, if you don't make, or don't try for law review, the world will go > on. I promise. > > Laura > > >> On 7/20/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: >> Michal, >> >> If you copy and paste the Bluebook citation from the online system >> into Microsoft Word, then hit Jaws key plus F, JAWS will read the >> attributes that the online editor fails to read. This primarily only >> applies to smallcaps, which you will not use in court documents, but >> you'll likely need to know for your research/writing course. And, of >> course, you should strive to be on law review. >> >> I completely disagree with the notion that reader would assist you. >> All a reader would do is strip you of your independence in these >> matters. I'm an editor on my school's top law review, and in speaking >> with my sighted friends, the process of sourcing and citing articles >> is time-consuming and tedious for everyone. In fact, the sighted folks >> have to go through character by character as well to insure, for >> instance, that periods are not in small caps. >> >> I'm a Bluebooking nerd, and I'd be happy to discuss the online edition >> with you. By the way, the online edition is really the only useful >> way, currently, to get really specific information with 100% accuracy. >> >> Best, >> Chris >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 14:03:49 2015 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:03:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think something is being lost in translation here. The question was how to **learn** the mechanics of the bluebook as a means of getting a head start on 1L. Not how to complete every single bluebooking assignment you will ever be given during the duration of your legal career. I do not, for instance, use a reader to complete blue booking assignments now either, nor have I since first semester. However, if and when I am unsure of something or want to make sure that I am doing something correctly (for instance when I was given an international law assignment), I know how to get the information I need efficiently and quickly either through jaws or a sighted person. Hence my discussion of "building a foundation," etc. On 7/20/15, Derek Manners wrote: > Michal, I agree with Chris on this one. While a reader is the short term > most efficient way to get through the bluebooking, I would never ask my firm > to provide a reader. The more independent you can be, and you can be with > the online version of the bluebook, the more likely you are to get a job > from a pragmatic standpoint. > > I believe in the "nature of independence" and understand that being > efficient sometimes means using sighted help. But you need to be able to do > your job, when possible, when sighted folks aren't around. For example, I > was working at 11 p.m. this Saturday on a brief. even if my firm provided a > reader, they certainly wouldn't provide one at that hour. > > Best regards > Derek Manners > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:01 AM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> I understand that I may be opening Pandora's box here, but I feel >> compelled to respond to this. >> >> I am at the top of my class. I am an editor on my law review. i am >> finishing up the last week of a big law firm internship. I have >> procured an appellate clerkship post-graduation. I have received the >> top score on one of my seminar papers. And, my goodness, i asked for >> sighted help to learn the bluebook. >> >> Though I do not usually use the list as an occasion to vaunt my >> accomplishments, and my intent is not to get into a tit for tat >> contest with Chris, I am utterly tired of the false and unhelpful >> notion that there is one, and only one way, to be independent. I was >> stripped of nothing by asking for a reader's assistance. I simply >> chose the most efficient way for me, individually, to learn the >> system. "stripping" would entail me giving my assignment to a reader >> and saying "do this for me" not asking for assistance to learn the >> skill in the best and most comprehensive way that fit my needs and >> learning style. My reader didn't cite check my law review edits. my >> reader didn't interview for my clerkship, my reader didn't write my >> paper or fix my citations. What my reader did do was help to build up >> a foundation so that I could spend my time on each of the above tasks >> focused on the substance of what was in front of me rather than the >> minutia of learning what to italicize and what to smallcaps. >> >> Do what works best for you, Michal. If that happens to involve a >> sighted person or, for that matter, as Chris himself offered, speaking >> to a blind person who will functionally be providing the exact same >> information and help, go for it. the job in law school is to figure >> out the best and most efficient process that will allow you to excel. >> I wish you all the best. >> PS, if you don't make, or don't try for law review, the world will go >> on. I promise. >> >> Laura >> >> >>> On 7/20/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >>> wrote: >>> Michal, >>> >>> If you copy and paste the Bluebook citation from the online system >>> into Microsoft Word, then hit Jaws key plus F, JAWS will read the >>> attributes that the online editor fails to read. This primarily only >>> applies to smallcaps, which you will not use in court documents, but >>> you'll likely need to know for your research/writing course. And, of >>> course, you should strive to be on law review. >>> >>> I completely disagree with the notion that reader would assist you. >>> All a reader would do is strip you of your independence in these >>> matters. I'm an editor on my school's top law review, and in speaking >>> with my sighted friends, the process of sourcing and citing articles >>> is time-consuming and tedious for everyone. In fact, the sighted folks >>> have to go through character by character as well to insure, for >>> instance, that periods are not in small caps. >>> >>> I'm a Bluebooking nerd, and I'd be happy to discuss the online edition >>> with you. By the way, the online edition is really the only useful >>> way, currently, to get really specific information with 100% accuracy. >>> >>> Best, >>> Chris >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Laura Wolk >> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> (484) 695-8234 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From al.elia at aol.com Mon Jul 20 14:05:49 2015 From: al.elia at aol.com (ALBERT ELIA) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:05:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All, I don't believe Laura was suggesting that a full-time reader at work was a viable solution, but I do think that a reader is a viable solution to get up to speed on citation formatting in the first weeks of law school. Realistically, eighty to ninety percent of the citation formatting (cases) can be learned in half an hour or so. At that point, all you really need is an abbreviation cheat sheet, and perhaps a state citationn cheat sheet and you're good to go. Granted, if you're going to do law review, you'll need some additional info, but that would be the ten to twety percent. I do use the online bluebook, but mostly just for the really odd citations (web articles, international cases and documents, etc). Most of what I use everyday I got from going through the basics of citations with a TA during the first week of law school. I didn't use a "reader" after that, but using the TA was a vastly more efficient use of my time than figuring out everything from the blue book. It may not work for everyone, and it may not work if your reader isn't a blue book fiend, but it can work, and there is no reason not to try it. Yours, /Æ On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:50 AM, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: > Michal, I agree with Chris on this one. While a reader is the short term most efficient way to get through the bluebooking, I would never ask my firm to provide a reader. The more independent you can be, and you can be with the online version of the bluebook, the more likely you are to get a job from a pragmatic standpoint. > > I believe in the "nature of independence" and understand that being efficient sometimes means using sighted help. But you need to be able to do your job, when possible, when sighted folks aren't around. For example, I was working at 11 p.m. this Saturday on a brief. even if my firm provided a reader, they certainly wouldn't provide one at that hour. > > Best regards > Derek Manners > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:01 AM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: >> >> I understand that I may be opening Pandora's box here, but I feel >> compelled to respond to this. >> >> I am at the top of my class. I am an editor on my law review. i am >> finishing up the last week of a big law firm internship. I have >> procured an appellate clerkship post-graduation. I have received the >> top score on one of my seminar papers. And, my goodness, i asked for >> sighted help to learn the bluebook. >> >> Though I do not usually use the list as an occasion to vaunt my >> accomplishments, and my intent is not to get into a tit for tat >> contest with Chris, I am utterly tired of the false and unhelpful >> notion that there is one, and only one way, to be independent. I was >> stripped of nothing by asking for a reader's assistance. I simply >> chose the most efficient way for me, individually, to learn the >> system. "stripping" would entail me giving my assignment to a reader >> and saying "do this for me" not asking for assistance to learn the >> skill in the best and most comprehensive way that fit my needs and >> learning style. My reader didn't cite check my law review edits. my >> reader didn't interview for my clerkship, my reader didn't write my >> paper or fix my citations. What my reader did do was help to build up >> a foundation so that I could spend my time on each of the above tasks >> focused on the substance of what was in front of me rather than the >> minutia of learning what to italicize and what to smallcaps. >> >> Do what works best for you, Michal. If that happens to involve a >> sighted person or, for that matter, as Chris himself offered, speaking >> to a blind person who will functionally be providing the exact same >> information and help, go for it. the job in law school is to figure >> out the best and most efficient process that will allow you to excel. >> I wish you all the best. >> PS, if you don't make, or don't try for law review, the world will go >> on. I promise. >> >> Laura >> >> >>> On 7/20/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: >>> Michal, >>> >>> If you copy and paste the Bluebook citation from the online system >>> into Microsoft Word, then hit Jaws key plus F, JAWS will read the >>> attributes that the online editor fails to read. This primarily only >>> applies to smallcaps, which you will not use in court documents, but >>> you'll likely need to know for your research/writing course. And, of >>> course, you should strive to be on law review. >>> >>> I completely disagree with the notion that reader would assist you. >>> All a reader would do is strip you of your independence in these >>> matters. I'm an editor on my school's top law review, and in speaking >>> with my sighted friends, the process of sourcing and citing articles >>> is time-consuming and tedious for everyone. In fact, the sighted folks >>> have to go through character by character as well to insure, for >>> instance, that periods are not in small caps. >>> >>> I'm a Bluebooking nerd, and I'd be happy to discuss the online edition >>> with you. By the way, the online edition is really the only useful >>> way, currently, to get really specific information with 100% accuracy. >>> >>> Best, >>> Chris >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Laura Wolk >> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> (484) 695-8234 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Mon Jul 20 14:45:30 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:45:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7671B131-0F34-4558-A8DE-CD230E50F675@jd16.law.harvard.edu> I can definitely understand going through things with a TA or a reader to learn the bluebook. But I found that I'm still "learning" the bluebook every time I use it. Between my internship at the Department of Defense, my work with a state AG, my work on an international human rights journal, and my work at a global law firm, I'm continuously finding new rules and being asked to cite obscure documents. I think the sooner you learn how to familiarize yourself with the bluebook and navigate its content, the better off you will be. I just don't think learning how to do U.S. cases, statutes, and law review articles from a reader makes a big difference. As you stated Al, this stuff is pretty easy. The hard part about the bluebook is the stuff you can only really learn through doing and learn through looking at it yourself over and over again. Michal, if I recall, you want to do international business. If you do use a reader or TA, you may want to ask them to give you a little extra in the way of treaties and foreign law if possible. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2015, at 10:05 AM, ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw wrote: > > All, > > I don't believe Laura was suggesting that a full-time reader at work was a viable solution, but I do think that a reader is a viable solution to get up to speed on citation formatting in the first weeks of law school. Realistically, eighty to ninety percent of the citation formatting (cases) can be learned in half an hour or so. At that point, all you really need is an abbreviation cheat sheet, and perhaps a state citationn cheat sheet and you're good to go. Granted, if you're going to do law review, you'll need some additional info, but that would be the ten to twety percent. > > I do use the online bluebook, but mostly just for the really odd citations (web articles, international cases and documents, etc). Most of what I use everyday I got from going through the basics of citations with a TA during the first week of law school. I didn't use a "reader" after that, but using the TA was a vastly more efficient use of my time than figuring out everything from the blue book. It may not work for everyone, and it may not work if your reader isn't a blue book fiend, but it can work, and there is no reason not to try it. > > Yours, > > /Æ > > >> On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:50 AM, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Michal, I agree with Chris on this one. While a reader is the short term most efficient way to get through the bluebooking, I would never ask my firm to provide a reader. The more independent you can be, and you can be with the online version of the bluebook, the more likely you are to get a job from a pragmatic standpoint. >> >> I believe in the "nature of independence" and understand that being efficient sometimes means using sighted help. But you need to be able to do your job, when possible, when sighted folks aren't around. For example, I was working at 11 p.m. this Saturday on a brief. even if my firm provided a reader, they certainly wouldn't provide one at that hour. >> >> Best regards >> Derek Manners >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:01 AM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: >>> >>> I understand that I may be opening Pandora's box here, but I feel >>> compelled to respond to this. >>> >>> I am at the top of my class. I am an editor on my law review. i am >>> finishing up the last week of a big law firm internship. I have >>> procured an appellate clerkship post-graduation. I have received the >>> top score on one of my seminar papers. And, my goodness, i asked for >>> sighted help to learn the bluebook. >>> >>> Though I do not usually use the list as an occasion to vaunt my >>> accomplishments, and my intent is not to get into a tit for tat >>> contest with Chris, I am utterly tired of the false and unhelpful >>> notion that there is one, and only one way, to be independent. I was >>> stripped of nothing by asking for a reader's assistance. I simply >>> chose the most efficient way for me, individually, to learn the >>> system. "stripping" would entail me giving my assignment to a reader >>> and saying "do this for me" not asking for assistance to learn the >>> skill in the best and most comprehensive way that fit my needs and >>> learning style. My reader didn't cite check my law review edits. my >>> reader didn't interview for my clerkship, my reader didn't write my >>> paper or fix my citations. What my reader did do was help to build up >>> a foundation so that I could spend my time on each of the above tasks >>> focused on the substance of what was in front of me rather than the >>> minutia of learning what to italicize and what to smallcaps. >>> >>> Do what works best for you, Michal. If that happens to involve a >>> sighted person or, for that matter, as Chris himself offered, speaking >>> to a blind person who will functionally be providing the exact same >>> information and help, go for it. the job in law school is to figure >>> out the best and most efficient process that will allow you to excel. >>> I wish you all the best. >>> PS, if you don't make, or don't try for law review, the world will go >>> on. I promise. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> >>>> On 7/20/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Michal, >>>> >>>> If you copy and paste the Bluebook citation from the online system >>>> into Microsoft Word, then hit Jaws key plus F, JAWS will read the >>>> attributes that the online editor fails to read. This primarily only >>>> applies to smallcaps, which you will not use in court documents, but >>>> you'll likely need to know for your research/writing course. And, of >>>> course, you should strive to be on law review. >>>> >>>> I completely disagree with the notion that reader would assist you. >>>> All a reader would do is strip you of your independence in these >>>> matters. I'm an editor on my school's top law review, and in speaking >>>> with my sighted friends, the process of sourcing and citing articles >>>> is time-consuming and tedious for everyone. In fact, the sighted folks >>>> have to go through character by character as well to insure, for >>>> instance, that periods are not in small caps. >>>> >>>> I'm a Bluebooking nerd, and I'd be happy to discuss the online edition >>>> with you. By the way, the online edition is really the only useful >>>> way, currently, to get really specific information with 100% accuracy. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Laura Wolk >>> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >>> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >>> (484) 695-8234 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 15:16:15 2015 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 11:16:15 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: <7671B131-0F34-4558-A8DE-CD230E50F675@jd16.law.harvard.edu> References: <7671B131-0F34-4558-A8DE-CD230E50F675@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here about what it means to "build a foundation". I think I've said all I wish to say on the matter, but I'll just conclude by noting that, my hour or so of initial assistance from a sighted person notwithstanding, I somehow seem to be managing to keep pace with the two of yall. I don't need a sighted person to tell me what to do every time I need to look up a new rule , I somehow manage to keep my head above water with my journal, job, class, and social activities without asking for handouts or reader accommodations. For me, that's quite enough evidence to feel confident that I made a good and viable choice that others should be free to make as well. On 7/20/15, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: > I can definitely understand going through things with a TA or a reader to > learn the bluebook. But I found that I'm still "learning" the bluebook every > time I use it. Between my internship at the Department of Defense, my work > with a state AG, my work on an international human rights journal, and my > work at a global law firm, I'm continuously finding new rules and being > asked to cite obscure documents. > > I think the sooner you learn how to familiarize yourself with the bluebook > and navigate its content, the better off you will be. I just don't think > learning how to do U.S. cases, statutes, and law review articles from a > reader makes a big difference. As you stated Al, this stuff is pretty easy. > The hard part about the bluebook is the stuff you can only really learn > through doing and learn through looking at it yourself over and over again. > > Michal, if I recall, you want to do international business. If you do use a > reader or TA, you may want to ask them to give you a little extra in the way > of treaties and foreign law if possible. > > Best regards > Derek Manners > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2015, at 10:05 AM, ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> All, >> >> I don't believe Laura was suggesting that a full-time reader at work was a >> viable solution, but I do think that a reader is a viable solution to get >> up to speed on citation formatting in the first weeks of law school. >> Realistically, eighty to ninety percent of the citation formatting (cases) >> can be learned in half an hour or so. At that point, all you really need >> is an abbreviation cheat sheet, and perhaps a state citationn cheat sheet >> and you're good to go. Granted, if you're going to do law review, you'll >> need some additional info, but that would be the ten to twety percent. >> >> I do use the online bluebook, but mostly just for the really odd citations >> (web articles, international cases and documents, etc). Most of what I use >> everyday I got from going through the basics of citations with a TA during >> the first week of law school. I didn't use a "reader" after that, but >> using the TA was a vastly more efficient use of my time than figuring out >> everything from the blue book. It may not work for everyone, and it may >> not work if your reader isn't a blue book fiend, but it can work, and >> there is no reason not to try it. >> >> Yours, >> >> /Æ >> >> >>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:50 AM, Derek Manners via blindlaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Michal, I agree with Chris on this one. While a reader is the short term >>> most efficient way to get through the bluebooking, I would never ask my >>> firm to provide a reader. The more independent you can be, and you can be >>> with the online version of the bluebook, the more likely you are to get a >>> job from a pragmatic standpoint. >>> >>> I believe in the "nature of independence" and understand that being >>> efficient sometimes means using sighted help. But you need to be able to >>> do your job, when possible, when sighted folks aren't around. For >>> example, I was working at 11 p.m. this Saturday on a brief. even if my >>> firm provided a reader, they certainly wouldn't provide one at that hour. >>> >>> >>> Best regards >>> Derek Manners >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:01 AM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I understand that I may be opening Pandora's box here, but I feel >>>> compelled to respond to this. >>>> >>>> I am at the top of my class. I am an editor on my law review. i am >>>> finishing up the last week of a big law firm internship. I have >>>> procured an appellate clerkship post-graduation. I have received the >>>> top score on one of my seminar papers. And, my goodness, i asked for >>>> sighted help to learn the bluebook. >>>> >>>> Though I do not usually use the list as an occasion to vaunt my >>>> accomplishments, and my intent is not to get into a tit for tat >>>> contest with Chris, I am utterly tired of the false and unhelpful >>>> notion that there is one, and only one way, to be independent. I was >>>> stripped of nothing by asking for a reader's assistance. I simply >>>> chose the most efficient way for me, individually, to learn the >>>> system. "stripping" would entail me giving my assignment to a reader >>>> and saying "do this for me" not asking for assistance to learn the >>>> skill in the best and most comprehensive way that fit my needs and >>>> learning style. My reader didn't cite check my law review edits. my >>>> reader didn't interview for my clerkship, my reader didn't write my >>>> paper or fix my citations. What my reader did do was help to build up >>>> a foundation so that I could spend my time on each of the above tasks >>>> focused on the substance of what was in front of me rather than the >>>> minutia of learning what to italicize and what to smallcaps. >>>> >>>> Do what works best for you, Michal. If that happens to involve a >>>> sighted person or, for that matter, as Chris himself offered, speaking >>>> to a blind person who will functionally be providing the exact same >>>> information and help, go for it. the job in law school is to figure >>>> out the best and most efficient process that will allow you to excel. >>>> I wish you all the best. >>>> PS, if you don't make, or don't try for law review, the world will go >>>> on. I promise. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 7/20/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Michal, >>>>> >>>>> If you copy and paste the Bluebook citation from the online system >>>>> into Microsoft Word, then hit Jaws key plus F, JAWS will read the >>>>> attributes that the online editor fails to read. This primarily only >>>>> applies to smallcaps, which you will not use in court documents, but >>>>> you'll likely need to know for your research/writing course. And, of >>>>> course, you should strive to be on law review. >>>>> >>>>> I completely disagree with the notion that reader would assist you. >>>>> All a reader would do is strip you of your independence in these >>>>> matters. I'm an editor on my school's top law review, and in speaking >>>>> with my sighted friends, the process of sourcing and citing articles >>>>> is time-consuming and tedious for everyone. In fact, the sighted folks >>>>> have to go through character by character as well to insure, for >>>>> instance, that periods are not in small caps. >>>>> >>>>> I'm a Bluebooking nerd, and I'd be happy to discuss the online edition >>>>> with you. By the way, the online edition is really the only useful >>>>> way, currently, to get really specific information with 100% accuracy. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Laura Wolk >>>> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >>>> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >>>> (484) 695-8234 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Mon Jul 20 15:39:11 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 11:39:11 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <7671B131-0F34-4558-A8DE-CD230E50F675@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <1C03B76A-A2CA-4C40-A7DA-49BDC82BA94E@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Laura, I did not mean to imply anybody's way was wrong. There's clearly differences of opinion with regard to this. I just wanted to make sure Michal understood that different people need different scopes of the bluebook and in my, and I think Chris' opinion, learning the basics organically will help you decipher more complicated stuff later. At the end of the day, as long as an attorney can use the bluebook, that's all that matters. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2015, at 11:16 AM, Laura Wolk wrote: > > I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here about what it > means to "build a foundation". I think I've said all I wish to say on > the matter, but I'll just conclude by noting that, my hour or so of > initial assistance from a sighted person notwithstanding, I somehow > seem to be managing to keep pace with the two of yall. I don't need a > sighted person to tell me what to do every time I need to look up a > new rule , I somehow manage to keep my head above water with my > journal, job, class, and social activities without asking for handouts > or reader accommodations. For me, that's quite enough evidence to feel > confident that I made a good and viable choice that others should be > free to make as well. > >> On 7/20/15, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: >> I can definitely understand going through things with a TA or a reader to >> learn the bluebook. But I found that I'm still "learning" the bluebook every >> time I use it. Between my internship at the Department of Defense, my work >> with a state AG, my work on an international human rights journal, and my >> work at a global law firm, I'm continuously finding new rules and being >> asked to cite obscure documents. >> >> I think the sooner you learn how to familiarize yourself with the bluebook >> and navigate its content, the better off you will be. I just don't think >> learning how to do U.S. cases, statutes, and law review articles from a >> reader makes a big difference. As you stated Al, this stuff is pretty easy. >> The hard part about the bluebook is the stuff you can only really learn >> through doing and learn through looking at it yourself over and over again. >> >> Michal, if I recall, you want to do international business. If you do use a >> reader or TA, you may want to ask them to give you a little extra in the way >> of treaties and foreign law if possible. >> >> Best regards >> Derek Manners >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 10:05 AM, ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> I don't believe Laura was suggesting that a full-time reader at work was a >>> viable solution, but I do think that a reader is a viable solution to get >>> up to speed on citation formatting in the first weeks of law school. >>> Realistically, eighty to ninety percent of the citation formatting (cases) >>> can be learned in half an hour or so. At that point, all you really need >>> is an abbreviation cheat sheet, and perhaps a state citationn cheat sheet >>> and you're good to go. Granted, if you're going to do law review, you'll >>> need some additional info, but that would be the ten to twety percent. >>> >>> I do use the online bluebook, but mostly just for the really odd citations >>> (web articles, international cases and documents, etc). Most of what I use >>> everyday I got from going through the basics of citations with a TA during >>> the first week of law school. I didn't use a "reader" after that, but >>> using the TA was a vastly more efficient use of my time than figuring out >>> everything from the blue book. It may not work for everyone, and it may >>> not work if your reader isn't a blue book fiend, but it can work, and >>> there is no reason not to try it. >>> >>> Yours, >>> >>> /Æ >>> >>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:50 AM, Derek Manners via blindlaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Michal, I agree with Chris on this one. While a reader is the short term >>>> most efficient way to get through the bluebooking, I would never ask my >>>> firm to provide a reader. The more independent you can be, and you can be >>>> with the online version of the bluebook, the more likely you are to get a >>>> job from a pragmatic standpoint. >>>> >>>> I believe in the "nature of independence" and understand that being >>>> efficient sometimes means using sighted help. But you need to be able to >>>> do your job, when possible, when sighted folks aren't around. For >>>> example, I was working at 11 p.m. this Saturday on a brief. even if my >>>> firm provided a reader, they certainly wouldn't provide one at that hour. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Derek Manners >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 9:01 AM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I understand that I may be opening Pandora's box here, but I feel >>>>> compelled to respond to this. >>>>> >>>>> I am at the top of my class. I am an editor on my law review. i am >>>>> finishing up the last week of a big law firm internship. I have >>>>> procured an appellate clerkship post-graduation. I have received the >>>>> top score on one of my seminar papers. And, my goodness, i asked for >>>>> sighted help to learn the bluebook. >>>>> >>>>> Though I do not usually use the list as an occasion to vaunt my >>>>> accomplishments, and my intent is not to get into a tit for tat >>>>> contest with Chris, I am utterly tired of the false and unhelpful >>>>> notion that there is one, and only one way, to be independent. I was >>>>> stripped of nothing by asking for a reader's assistance. I simply >>>>> chose the most efficient way for me, individually, to learn the >>>>> system. "stripping" would entail me giving my assignment to a reader >>>>> and saying "do this for me" not asking for assistance to learn the >>>>> skill in the best and most comprehensive way that fit my needs and >>>>> learning style. My reader didn't cite check my law review edits. my >>>>> reader didn't interview for my clerkship, my reader didn't write my >>>>> paper or fix my citations. What my reader did do was help to build up >>>>> a foundation so that I could spend my time on each of the above tasks >>>>> focused on the substance of what was in front of me rather than the >>>>> minutia of learning what to italicize and what to smallcaps. >>>>> >>>>> Do what works best for you, Michal. If that happens to involve a >>>>> sighted person or, for that matter, as Chris himself offered, speaking >>>>> to a blind person who will functionally be providing the exact same >>>>> information and help, go for it. the job in law school is to figure >>>>> out the best and most efficient process that will allow you to excel. >>>>> I wish you all the best. >>>>> PS, if you don't make, or don't try for law review, the world will go >>>>> on. I promise. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 7/20/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Michal, >>>>>> >>>>>> If you copy and paste the Bluebook citation from the online system >>>>>> into Microsoft Word, then hit Jaws key plus F, JAWS will read the >>>>>> attributes that the online editor fails to read. This primarily only >>>>>> applies to smallcaps, which you will not use in court documents, but >>>>>> you'll likely need to know for your research/writing course. And, of >>>>>> course, you should strive to be on law review. >>>>>> >>>>>> I completely disagree with the notion that reader would assist you. >>>>>> All a reader would do is strip you of your independence in these >>>>>> matters. I'm an editor on my school's top law review, and in speaking >>>>>> with my sighted friends, the process of sourcing and citing articles >>>>>> is time-consuming and tedious for everyone. In fact, the sighted folks >>>>>> have to go through character by character as well to insure, for >>>>>> instance, that periods are not in small caps. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm a Bluebooking nerd, and I'd be happy to discuss the online edition >>>>>> with you. By the way, the online edition is really the only useful >>>>>> way, currently, to get really specific information with 100% accuracy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Laura Wolk >>>>> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >>>>> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >>>>> (484) 695-8234 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 From njaskins at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 16:53:47 2015 From: njaskins at gmail.com (Nicole Askins) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 12:53:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: Thank you for your response. I will be at the Baltimore campus Frances C Carie School of Law On Jul 20, 2015 9:03 AM, "Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw" < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes a > big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact Dan > Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the > coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates with > all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you need. > Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. > > Yasmin Reyazuddin > Aging & Disability Services > Montgomery County Government > Department of Health & Human Services > 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) > Rockville MD 20850 > 240-777-0311 (MC311) > 240-777-1556 (personal) > 240-777-1495 (fax) > office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille > > > This message may contain protected health information or other information > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this > material. > > Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole > Askins via blindlaw > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Nicole Askins > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook > > Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been > placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I > will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I > have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course > materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 > PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" > wrote: > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > > > I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for > > my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line > > through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this > > method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition > > to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font > > type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to > > know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription > > service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how > to format legal documents correctly. > > Any feedback is appreciated. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Michal > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail > > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com > From njaskins at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 16:55:38 2015 From: njaskins at gmail.com (Nicole Askins) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 12:55:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: Also, where can I get a copy of this blue book that was spoken during this conversation? Of course I would need it in an electronic format can I obtain that on my own prior to entering school? On Jul 20, 2015 12:53 PM, "Nicole Askins" wrote: > Thank you for your response. I will be at the Baltimore campus Frances C > Carie School of Law > On Jul 20, 2015 9:03 AM, "Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw" < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > >> Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes a >> big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact Dan >> Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the >> coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates with >> all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you need. >> Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. >> >> Yasmin Reyazuddin >> Aging & Disability Services >> Montgomery County Government >> Department of Health & Human Services >> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) >> Rockville MD 20850 >> 240-777-0311 (MC311) >> 240-777-1556 (personal) >> 240-777-1495 (fax) >> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm >> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille >> >> >> This message may contain protected health information or other >> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >> recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies >> of this material. >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole >> Askins via blindlaw >> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Nicole Askins >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook >> >> Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been >> placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I >> will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I >> have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course >> materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 >> PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" >> wrote: >> >> > Hello everyone, >> > >> > >> > >> > I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for >> > my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line >> > through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this >> > method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition >> > to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font >> > type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to >> > know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription >> > service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how >> to format legal documents correctly. >> > Any feedback is appreciated. >> > >> > >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > >> > >> > Michal >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail >> > .com >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com >> > From al.elia at aol.com Mon Jul 20 17:04:13 2015 From: al.elia at aol.com (ALBERT ELIA) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:04:13 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: <79B8A6AC-8EEF-491F-B993-EC686F34393C@aol.com> https://www.legalbluebook.com On Jul 20, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Nicole Askins via blindlaw wrote: > Also, where can I get a copy of this blue book that was spoken during this > conversation? Of course I would need it in an electronic format can I > obtain that on my own prior to entering school? > On Jul 20, 2015 12:53 PM, "Nicole Askins" wrote: > >> Thank you for your response. I will be at the Baltimore campus Frances C >> Carie School of Law >> On Jul 20, 2015 9:03 AM, "Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw" < >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> >>> Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes a >>> big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact Dan >>> Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the >>> coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates with >>> all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you need. >>> Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. >>> >>> Yasmin Reyazuddin >>> Aging & Disability Services >>> Montgomery County Government >>> Department of Health & Human Services >>> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) >>> Rockville MD 20850 >>> 240-777-0311 (MC311) >>> 240-777-1556 (personal) >>> 240-777-1495 (fax) >>> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm >>> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille >>> >>> >>> This message may contain protected health information or other >>> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >>> recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies >>> of this material. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole >>> Askins via blindlaw >>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Nicole Askins >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook >>> >>> Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been >>> placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I >>> will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I >>> have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course >>> materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 >>> PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for >>>> my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line >>>> through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this >>>> method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition >>>> to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font >>>> type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to >>>> know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription >>>> service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how >>> to format legal documents correctly. >>>> Any feedback is appreciated. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Michal >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 17:44:36 2015 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 23:14:36 +0530 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: <79B8A6AC-8EEF-491F-B993-EC686F34393C@aol.com> References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> <79B8A6AC-8EEF-491F-B993-EC686F34393C@aol.com> Message-ID: After reading this discussion, I am reminded of Judge Richard Posner's views on first seeing the 19th edition of the bluebook: 'The horror! The horror!' On 20/07/2015, ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw wrote: > https://www.legalbluebook.com > > On Jul 20, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Nicole Askins via blindlaw > wrote: > >> Also, where can I get a copy of this blue book that was spoken during >> this >> conversation? Of course I would need it in an electronic format can I >> obtain that on my own prior to entering school? >> On Jul 20, 2015 12:53 PM, "Nicole Askins" wrote: >> >>> Thank you for your response. I will be at the Baltimore campus Frances C >>> Carie School of Law >>> On Jul 20, 2015 9:03 AM, "Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw" < >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes a >>>> big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact >>>> Dan >>>> Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the >>>> coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates >>>> with >>>> all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you >>>> need. >>>> Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. >>>> >>>> Yasmin Reyazuddin >>>> Aging & Disability Services >>>> Montgomery County Government >>>> Department of Health & Human Services >>>> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) >>>> Rockville MD 20850 >>>> 240-777-0311 (MC311) >>>> 240-777-1556 (personal) >>>> 240-777-1495 (fax) >>>> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm >>>> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille >>>> >>>> >>>> This message may contain protected health information or other >>>> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the >>>> intended >>>> recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any >>>> copies >>>> of this material. >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole >>>> Askins via blindlaw >>>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Nicole Askins >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook >>>> >>>> Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been >>>> placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I >>>> will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I >>>> have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course >>>> materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 >>>> 3:44 >>>> PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for >>>>> my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line >>>>> through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this >>>>> method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition >>>>> to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font >>>>> type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to >>>>> know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription >>>>> service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning >>>>> how >>>> to format legal documents correctly. >>>>> Any feedback is appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Michal >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > From tim at timeldermusic.com Mon Jul 20 19:35:41 2015 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 12:35:41 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: <006001d0c323$43e04fb0$cba0ef10$@timeldermusic.com> Love the online version. Text formatting such as Italic and Bold is available assuming you understand screenreader verbosity settings. -----Original Message----- From: Laura Wolk [mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 2:54 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Michal, I use the online bluebook quite frequently. It is very navigable, and is good for many things, including doublechecking your ordering of authorities, looking up definitions, and making sure you have all elements of a citation in the correct order. But it does not identify all font attributes. in particular, it doesn't identify smallcaps, which is used frequently in bluebooking (if I'm wrong on this, someone please correct me. Even if the online version did provide all info, if you have no usable vision in my opinion it is an inefficient use of time if you went through character by character trying to get down all of that information. What I suggest is to meet with your legal research prof (or one of us) and go through the four basic forms that you will need to know in a 1L class--cases, statutes, law review/journal articles, and treatises. If you get these down, figuring out the rest along the way will not be terribly difficult, as you will get familiar with the overall structure and will also learn what to ask a sighted person when and if you need some guidance down the road. Let me know if you'd like any assistance. Laura On 7/19/15, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for > my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line > through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this > method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition > to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font > type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to > know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription > service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how to format legal documents correctly. > Any feedback is appreciated. > > > > Best, > > > > Michal > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jul 20 20:03:51 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 20:03:51 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Justice Department Signs Three ADA Settlement Agreements with Counties Advancing Equal Access In-Reply-To: <17512117.685@public.govdelivery.com> References: <17512117.685@public.govdelivery.com> Message-ID: From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:24 PM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Justice Department Signs Three ADA Settlement Agreements with Counties Advancing Equal Access The Justice Department today announced three Project Civic Access settlement agreements with Champaign County, Illinois; Merced County, California; and Yakima County, Washington (Counties), to improve access to all aspects of civic life for people with disabilities. Under the agreements, the Counties will take important steps to improve access for people with disabilities, such as: providing auxiliary aids and services necessary to ensure effective communication with persons who are deaf or hard of hearing and people who are blind or have low vision; amending its employment policies to comply with ADA guidance issued by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; ensuring website accessibility; maintaining accessible features; make modifications necessary to sidewalks and curb ramps to provide accessible routes; and making modifications to parking, entrances, routes, toilet rooms, and other areas as well as making all of the Counties' programs, activities, and services accessible to people with disabilities through facility alterations or programmatic changes. Today's settlement agreements are announced as part of the department's on-going celebration of the 25th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. For more information about the settlement agreements please visit our ADA website at www.ada.gov . Those interested in finding out more about the ADA may also call the Justice Department's toll-free ADA Information Line at 800-514-0301 or 800-514-0383 (TDD). ________________________________ [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] Follow DOJ on Twitter. | [Image removed by sender. FaceBook icon] Like DOJ on Facebook. | [Image removed by sender. YouTube] Follow DOJ on YouTube. ________________________________ You have received this e-mail because you have asked to be notified of changes to the U.S. Department of Justice website. GovDelivery is providing this service on behalf of the Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW * Washington, DC 20530 * 202-514-2000 and may not use your subscription information for any other purposes. Manage your Subscriptions | Department of Justice Privacy Policy | GovDelivery Privacy Policy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From chris.stewart at uky.edu Tue Jul 21 12:42:48 2015 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:42:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook Message-ID: Laura: For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less viable than mine and Derek's. Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a ton of success in law school. Best, Chris From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Tue Jul 21 12:54:09 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:54:09 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why. Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for different folks to do things different ways. I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > > Laura: > > For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that > another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no > interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with > anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less > viable than mine and Derek's. > > Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. > If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, > more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do > myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the > organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me > knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and > living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my > opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is > the hobgoblin of little minds. > > Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try > for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the > employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. > Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the > journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some > employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal > experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a > ton of success in law school. > > Best, > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 12:55:52 2015 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:55:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Derek, agreed. you beat me too it--I was about to send the exact same link. On 7/21/15, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: > Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why. > Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for different > folks to do things different ways. > > I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. > > https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> Laura: >> >> For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that >> another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no >> interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with >> anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less >> viable than mine and Derek's. >> >> Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. >> If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, >> more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do >> myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the >> organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me >> knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and >> living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my >> opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is >> the hobgoblin of little minds. >> >> Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try >> for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the >> employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. >> Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the >> journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some >> employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal >> experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a >> ton of success in law school. >> >> Best, >> Chris >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Tue Jul 21 13:02:33 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:02:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great minds think alike. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:55 AM, Laura Wolk wrote: > > Derek, agreed. you beat me too it--I was about to send the exact same link. > > > >> On 7/21/15, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: >> Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why. >> Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for different >> folks to do things different ways. >> >> I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. >> >> https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Laura: >>> >>> For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that >>> another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no >>> interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with >>> anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less >>> viable than mine and Derek's. >>> >>> Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. >>> If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, >>> more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do >>> myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the >>> organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me >>> knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and >>> living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my >>> opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is >>> the hobgoblin of little minds. >>> >>> Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try >>> for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the >>> employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. >>> Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the >>> journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some >>> employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal >>> experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a >>> ton of success in law school. >>> >>> Best, >>> Chris >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Jul 21 13:08:20 2015 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:08:20 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <603226D0-B0B9-49F9-8ABA-EFF34970EA6B@yahoo.com> Derek, thanks for the link, and I also believe that there is no shame in using assistance: sighted, blind, or whatever, in learning a new system. I guarantee that sighted people do so all the time without a second thought. I am yet to start law school, so I am not familiar with Bluebook or the conventions of legal citation, but I readily asked for assistance in formatting my doctoral dissertation to meet the stringent requirements of the graduate school; this was a service available upon request to all graduate students, so it was not any sort of "special" accommodation. In any event, I plan to use reference librarians and other resources while in law school to ensure that I have the best possible grasp of proper citation format. If I have learned anything over the last several years, it is that we, as blind people, often have less room for error than our cited peers in any writing that we produce for publication. All best, James Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:55 AM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: > > Derek, agreed. you beat me too it--I was about to send the exact same link. > > > >> On 7/21/15, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: >> Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why. >> Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for different >> folks to do things different ways. >> >> I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. >> >> https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Laura: >>> >>> For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that >>> another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no >>> interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with >>> anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less >>> viable than mine and Derek's. >>> >>> Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. >>> If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, >>> more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do >>> myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the >>> organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me >>> knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and >>> living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my >>> opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is >>> the hobgoblin of little minds. >>> >>> Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try >>> for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the >>> employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. >>> Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the >>> journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some >>> employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal >>> experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a >>> ton of success in law school. >>> >>> Best, >>> Chris >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From chris.stewart at uky.edu Tue Jul 21 13:30:48 2015 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:30:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Derek and Laura, Please allow me to briefly make clear my philosophical point, as I seem to have experienced a great deal of difficulty in articulating myself in both my prior emails. First, I've read Dr. Jernigan's speech and those of Dr. Maurer and others echoing similar ideas. My statement that "anything I can do myself, I should" comes with two clear caveats. They are, so long as doing so is an efficient use of my time, and so long as doing so will result in the highest quality outcome for myself and others. In the present matter, I felt that exploring the online Bluebook independently from the start was worth it to me. My legal writing professor instructed the whole class to spend time reading the rules and tables to familiarize ourselves with their general location and content. It therefore struck me that expending this effort was a wise use of time and could insure optimal results. As I said in my previous email, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Laura, you clearly have found success doing it your way. I want to make it clear that I see your path as an alternative to mine, nothing more or less. As I said, the endgame is successful, independent employment, and that is where we all have ended up. Finally, Laura, I apologize for the tone of my initial response to Michal. In reviewing it, I understand I came across as judgmental of your methods. I intended not to diminish your methods, but to advocate for my own, and in so doing, I spoke hastily and conveyed the wrong idea. I hope this clears up any remaining confusion, and I hope to see both of you at conventions for years to come. Best, Chris On 7/21/15, Derek Manners wrote: > Great minds think alike. > > Best regards > Derek Manners > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:55 AM, Laura Wolk wrote: >> >> Derek, agreed. you beat me too it--I was about to send the exact same >> link. >> >> >> >>> On 7/21/15, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: >>> Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's >>> why. >>> Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for >>> different >>> folks to do things different ways. >>> >>> I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. >>> >>> https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Laura: >>>> >>>> For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that >>>> another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no >>>> interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with >>>> anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less >>>> viable than mine and Derek's. >>>> >>>> Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. >>>> If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, >>>> more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do >>>> myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the >>>> organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me >>>> knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and >>>> living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my >>>> opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is >>>> the hobgoblin of little minds. >>>> >>>> Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try >>>> for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the >>>> employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. >>>> Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the >>>> journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some >>>> employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal >>>> experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a >>>> ton of success in law school. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Laura Wolk >> Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 >> Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> (484) 695-8234 > -- Chris K. Stewart University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 Ph: (502)457-1757 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Jul 21 13:57:31 2015 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:57:31 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005701d0c3bd$30d2c8e0$92785aa0$@labarrelaw.com> Greetings everyone, I have been following this thread with interest. I graduated law school in 1993 and thus confronted a different reality than those going through in this age. I absolutely had to rely on the use of a reader because we were using dos based computers that had dial up connections with the brand new internet. The vast majority of material was available only in print and even today, I suspect that the majority is still only available initially in hard copy print. The difference is, of course, that almost everything is born digital and thus there is a path to gaining access, either through rendering the digital material accessible or converting it into something accessible. In any event, for me, this conversation has been interesting because indicates how much times have changed. When I was a student, it went without saying that every blind student would require the use of a reader and for a law student heavy use of same. Now, the trend is for blind students to avoid readers, almost at all cost. In my practice, I largely rely on gaining access through digital means, but I still need my assistant to do a significant amount of reading. If I get an inaccessible electronic document or, believe it or not, get something in the mail that is only hard copy, I need her to read that document to me and then I identify the strategy I need to employ from there. If it is something that I will need again or it is something that could be important in one of my cases, I usually have her scan the document and convert it into an accessible text. Some times, if the document is not all that important and I have gained whatever information from it I need, I will have her dispose of it. It is still also true that in terms of scanning for something quicly, it is often faster for me to have my assistant hunt for something and then give me the info. The bottom line is that I do not believe I could practice law without my assistant acting as a reader on a rather frequent basis. It is also true to say that in the last en years, the amount of time that she actually has to read is gone down substantially. So, I pretty much agree with all the comments made. We should strive to be as independent as possible and use tools that allow us to do so . However, independence is more of a mental state and philosophy than usage of particular tools. Derek is right to recommend Dr. Jernigan's speech, the Nature of Independence, which I was fortunate enough to hear in person in 1993. I believe Derek referred everyone to the text link to the speech, but if you get a chance, watch the video or listen to the audio. Dr. Jernigan had a masterful form of delivery that we rarely encounter these days. I also agree that we should take all necessary measures to become employed. Although the ADA has opened up many doors in the last 25 years, it has barely moved the needle on employment, and that is something we must continue to combat in a variety of ways. As for endeavoring to get on law review or a law journal etc, those efforts certainly help to distinguish you. For those who are not fortunate to get on law review or who cannot maintain a high GPA, there is still hope. After a few years of practice, no one really cares whether you were on law review or what your GPA might have been. It then centers on the experience you have gained. Consequently, I think that one of the most critical things you can do is gain practical experience while in law school either through internships, clerkships, clinics,and the like. Originally, we were going to have a panel at this year's NABL's meeting about how blind lawyers practice differently, especially the differeing approachs based on when one graduated from law school. We couldn't fit that in this year but it will be a high priority for our meeting next year. I want to thank everyone for their comments on this thread and thank you for an interesting conversation which allowed me to reflect a bit on the good old days when I was young and back in law school. Best, Scott -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek Manners via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:54 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Derek Manners; Stewart, Christopher K Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why. Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for different folks to do things different ways. I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > > Laura: > > For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that > another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no > interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with > anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less > viable than mine and Derek's. > > Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. > If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, > more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do > myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the > organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me > knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and > living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my > opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is > the hobgoblin of little minds. > > Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try > for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the > employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. > Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the > journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some > employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal > experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a > ton of success in law school. > > Best, > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16. > law.harvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 14:59:05 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:59:05 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: <005701d0c3bd$30d2c8e0$92785aa0$@labarrelaw.com> References: <005701d0c3bd$30d2c8e0$92785aa0$@labarrelaw.com> Message-ID: Like Scott, I have found this intriguing. I come at it from a slightly different background, in that I was still able to read visually, in controlled spurts, while I was in law school and the first years of practice. Even as my sight declined, I still found ways to do everything independently, even though it took longer and longer hours - beyond that even normal for new lawyers - to accomplish. Once I needed the computer to be able to access information, the real need for changes in my ability to ask for assistance began, because as Scott points out, many things still will not be accessible. The ADA and companion laws should prevent that, but the reality is that you may find yourself in an agency or firm that utilizes an inaccessible file management program, an inaccessible time/attendance/benefits program, etc. While you should definitely register the proper legal complaints about these things, at the end of the day, your work still has to be done for the benefit of the client. Sometimes that will mean that you will have to rely on a sighted assistant or co-worker. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:58 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Scott C. LaBarre Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Greetings everyone, I have been following this thread with interest. I graduated law school in 1993 and thus confronted a different reality than those going through in this age. I absolutely had to rely on the use of a reader because we were using dos based computers that had dial up connections with the brand new internet. The vast majority of material was available only in print and even today, I suspect that the majority is still only available initially in hard copy print. The difference is, of course, that almost everything is born digital and thus there is a path to gaining access, either through rendering the digital material accessible or converting it into something accessible. In any event, for me, this conversation has been interesting because indicates how much times have changed. When I was a student, it went without saying that every blind student would require the use of a reader and for a law student heavy use of same. Now, the trend is for blind students to avoid readers, almost at all cost. In my practice, I largely rely on gaining access through digital means, but I still need my assistant to do a significant amount of reading. If I get an inaccessible electronic document or, believe it or not, get something in the mail that is only hard copy, I need her to read that document to me and then I identify the strategy I need to employ from there. If it is something that I will need again or it is something that could be important in one of my cases, I usually have her scan the document and convert it into an accessible text. Some times, if the document is not all that important and I have gained whatever information from it I need, I will have her dispose of it. It is still also true that in terms of scanning for something quicly, it is often faster for me to have my assistant hunt for something and then give me the info. The bottom line is that I do not believe I could practice law without my assistant acting as a reader on a rather frequent basis. It is also true to say that in the last en years, the amount of time that she actually has to read is gone down substantially. So, I pretty much agree with all the comments made. We should strive to be as independent as possible and use tools that allow us to do so . However, independence is more of a mental state and philosophy than usage of particular tools. Derek is right to recommend Dr. Jernigan's speech, the Nature of Independence, which I was fortunate enough to hear in person in 1993. I believe Derek referred everyone to the text link to the speech, but if you get a chance, watch the video or listen to the audio. Dr. Jernigan had a masterful form of delivery that we rarely encounter these days. I also agree that we should take all necessary measures to become employed. Although the ADA has opened up many doors in the last 25 years, it has barely moved the needle on employment, and that is something we must continue to combat in a variety of ways. As for endeavoring to get on law review or a law journal etc, those efforts certainly help to distinguish you. For those who are not fortunate to get on law review or who cannot maintain a high GPA, there is still hope. After a few years of practice, no one really cares whether you were on law review or what your GPA might have been. It then centers on the experience you have gained. Consequently, I think that one of the most critical things you can do is gain practical experience while in law school either through internships, clerkships, clinics,and the like. Originally, we were going to have a panel at this year's NABL's meeting about how blind lawyers practice differently, especially the differeing approachs based on when one graduated from law school. We couldn't fit that in this year but it will be a high priority for our meeting next year. I want to thank everyone for their comments on this thread and thank you for an interesting conversation which allowed me to reflect a bit on the good old days when I was young and back in law school. Best, Scott -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek Manners via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:54 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Derek Manners; Stewart, Christopher K Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why. Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for different folks to do things different ways. I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > > Laura: > > For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that > another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no > interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with > anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less > viable than mine and Derek's. > > Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. > If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, > more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do > myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the > organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me > knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and > living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my > opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is > the hobgoblin of little minds. > > Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try > for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the > employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. > Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the > journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some > employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal > experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a > ton of success in law school. > > Best, > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16. > law.harvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Jul 21 16:19:44 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:19:44 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Privacy Officer Opening In-Reply-To: <6d20dabb53594c31a1ebda9790e40d98@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com> References: <6d20dabb53594c31a1ebda9790e40d98@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com> Message-ID: From: Diana Young [mailto:D.Young at F5.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 10:34 PM To: president at abaw.org; Jessica Yu; filipinolawyers at gmail.com; alex.oh at stoel.com; chach at stanfordalumni.org; warner.ian at dorsey.com; shamim at hansantos.com; president at mamaseattle.org; drbob at stoel.com; joseph.a.evans at gmail.com; sdgupta at u.washington.edu; Awong at pivotallawgroup.com; Nightingale, Noel; johnt at johntlaw.com; Elisabeth.McNeil at klgates.com Cc: Melinda Burrows Subject: FW: Privacy Officer Opening Hi all, I've been given permission to forward this job posting to the different minority bar associations. Please distribute to your membership. Thank you, Diana Diana Young Senior Corporate Counsel | U.S. Patent Attorney D 206.272.6705 M 206.351.3856 F 206.272.5634 f5.com | synthesis.f5.com [cid:image014.png at 01D0C33C.1D9DCF80][cid:image015.png at 01D0C33C.1D9DCF80][cid:image016.png at 01D0C33C.1D9DCF80][cid:image017.png at 01D0C33C.1D9DCF80][cid:image018.png at 01D0C33C.1D9DCF80] [tagline-v6-1.png] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE. This e-mail message, and any attachments, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email message, including attachments. Thank you. From: Melinda Burrows [mailto:melinda.burrows at outerwall.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:34 PM Subject: Privacy Officer Opening My employer is looking to hire its first privacy officer (position description attached). If you or someone you know may be interested, please forward a resume and cover letter to me. Melinda Burrows VP -- Compliance D 425-943-8890 melinda.burrows at outerwall.com [http://www.outerwall.com/media/sig/outerwall_ss.png] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 11438 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image014.png Type: image/png Size: 1202 bytes Desc: image014.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image015.png Type: image/png Size: 1178 bytes Desc: image015.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image016.png Type: image/png Size: 1133 bytes Desc: image016.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image017.png Type: image/png Size: 1350 bytes Desc: image017.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image018.png Type: image/png Size: 1288 bytes Desc: image018.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image019.png Type: image/png Size: 8470 bytes Desc: image019.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cpo description.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 184869 bytes Desc: cpo description.docx URL: From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 17:13:25 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:13:25 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Message-ID: Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. From Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov Tue Jul 21 17:23:42 2015 From: Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov (Reyazuddin, Yasmin) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:23:42 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Susan, I would talk with the ADA compliance officer in the county. Make them aware of inaccessible documents. I know that section 508 applies to federal government but some counties do want to follow it. Website accessibility is now part of the ADA compliance. Check the new document on the website. www.ada.gov has a new document on state & local government guidelines. Let us know if you have success. Yasmin Reyazuddin Aging & Disability Services Montgomery County Government Department of Health & Human Services 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850 240-777-0311 (MC311) 240-777-1556 (personal) 240-777-1495 (fax) office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:13 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 17:45:26 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:45:26 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Been there, done that, unfortunately. Our ADA officer is very helpful, but he has no authority over the courts because of how are county is run, and seemingly very limited power over our county IT, the new director of which made a very discriminatory comment in front of an entire roomful of people present for a meeting on the subject of the network and machinery last month. In fact, the ADA rep thinks I may have to resort to litigation to get compliance from the multiple players involved, which I can neither afford in terms of money or time. In the meantime, my work is still due, so I am trying to find other ways to handle this. I will let you all know if anything improves, though! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Hi Susan, I would talk with the ADA compliance officer in the county. Make them aware of inaccessible documents. I know that section 508 applies to federal government but some counties do want to follow it. Website accessibility is now part of the ADA compliance. Check the new document on the website. www.ada.gov has a new document on state & local government guidelines. Let us know if you have success. Yasmin Reyazuddin Aging & Disability Services Montgomery County Government Department of Health & Human Services 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850 240-777-0311 (MC311) 240-777-1556 (personal) 240-777-1495 (fax) office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:13 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From steve.jacobson at visi.com Tue Jul 21 18:01:56 2015 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:01:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Susan, I am sorry if this has already been mentioned, but some of the settings that need to be changed are in Adobe Acrobat and not within JAWS. For example, there is a setting that determines if an entire document will be made available to JAWS or whether it will be broken into pages. In general, if you tell Adobe to always make the entire document available at once to the JAWS Virtual Cursor, you probably can't take advantage of bookmarks set in the PDF which can be useful on large documents if they are used. Second, there are several reading order options within Adobe. If it is not already specified, sometimes telling Adobe to "read left to right, top to bottom" rather than to "infer reading order from Document" you can have better results. Whether these options help or not is not something I can know, though. Finally, if nothing above has worked or can work for you, you certainly don't need to be printing out the entire document and rescanning it. OCR programs like OmniPage and FineReader contain logic that will go in and get the text from PDF's and I believe they will grab text without doing OCR if it is available. Kurzweil 1000 will also create a virtual printer that will let you print out a PDF and then have it recognized by Kurzweil 1000. Finally, Nuance, the company that makes OmniPage, also has specific PDF software that is supposed to let you convert PDF's to Word for example. The version that I have used in the past that came with OmniPage did pretty well. I hope something here is helpful, but I'm sorry if you've heard it all before. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Been there, done that, unfortunately. Our ADA officer is very helpful, but he has no authority over the courts because of how are county is run, and seemingly very limited power over our county IT, the new director of which made a very discriminatory comment in front of an entire roomful of people present for a meeting on the subject of the network and machinery last month. In fact, the ADA rep thinks I may have to resort to litigation to get compliance from the multiple players involved, which I can neither afford in terms of money or time. In the meantime, my work is still due, so I am trying to find other ways to handle this. I will let you all know if anything improves, though! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Hi Susan, I would talk with the ADA compliance officer in the county. Make them aware of inaccessible documents. I know that section 508 applies to federal government but some counties do want to follow it. Website accessibility is now part of the ADA compliance. Check the new document on the website. www.ada.gov has a new document on state & local government guidelines. Let us know if you have success. Yasmin Reyazuddin Aging & Disability Services Montgomery County Government Department of Health & Human Services 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850 240-777-0311 (MC311) 240-777-1556 (personal) 240-777-1495 (fax) office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:13 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40mo ntgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi. com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 19:06:03 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:06:03 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve - Thanks so much for the insights on Adobe - not repeats, and very helpful. I will check to see what we are allowed as users to change - like I said, the network policy is somewhat draconian around here, and even then, does not keep things running well. I will definitely try to change what I can to see if it improves things. I have mentioned purchasing a different OCR program many times to the powers that be - unfortunately, the latest comment I got was "nothing is perfect" and that I should have my assistant read inaccessible / problematic documents to me instead, the standard code language for nothing else will be done to improve the situation. Susan -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:02 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Steve Jacobson Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Susan, I am sorry if this has already been mentioned, but some of the settings that need to be changed are in Adobe Acrobat and not within JAWS. For example, there is a setting that determines if an entire document will be made available to JAWS or whether it will be broken into pages. In general, if you tell Adobe to always make the entire document available at once to the JAWS Virtual Cursor, you probably can't take advantage of bookmarks set in the PDF which can be useful on large documents if they are used. Second, there are several reading order options within Adobe. If it is not already specified, sometimes telling Adobe to "read left to right, top to bottom" rather than to "infer reading order from Document" you can have better results. Whether these options help or not is not something I can know, though. Finally, if nothing above has worked or can work for you, you certainly don't need to be printing out the entire document and rescanning it. OCR programs like OmniPage and FineReader contain logic that will go in and get the text from PDF's and I believe they will grab text without doing OCR if it is available. Kurzweil 1000 will also create a virtual printer that will let you print out a PDF and then have it recognized by Kurzweil 1000. Finally, Nuance, the company that makes OmniPage, also has specific PDF software that is supposed to let you convert PDF's to Word for example. The version that I have used in the past that came with OmniPage did pretty well. I hope something here is helpful, but I'm sorry if you've heard it all before. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Been there, done that, unfortunately. Our ADA officer is very helpful, but he has no authority over the courts because of how are county is run, and seemingly very limited power over our county IT, the new director of which made a very discriminatory comment in front of an entire roomful of people present for a meeting on the subject of the network and machinery last month. In fact, the ADA rep thinks I may have to resort to litigation to get compliance from the multiple players involved, which I can neither afford in terms of money or time. In the meantime, my work is still due, so I am trying to find other ways to handle this. I will let you all know if anything improves, though! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Hi Susan, I would talk with the ADA compliance officer in the county. Make them aware of inaccessible documents. I know that section 508 applies to federal government but some counties do want to follow it. Website accessibility is now part of the ADA compliance. Check the new document on the website. www.ada.gov has a new document on state & local government guidelines. Let us know if you have success. Yasmin Reyazuddin Aging & Disability Services Montgomery County Government Department of Health & Human Services 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850 240-777-0311 (MC311) 240-777-1556 (personal) 240-777-1495 (fax) office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:13 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40mo ntgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From dandrews at visi.com Tue Jul 21 19:28:01 2015 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:28:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Without seeing one of the pdf's, it is hard to say, are these public files? Dave At 12:13 PM 7/21/2015, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate >to find some workable answers. > >I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile >appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of >accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more >differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have >different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed >in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents >to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a >PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs >available to them through the state office of the courts to generate >written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain >bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as >opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is >embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the >page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading >halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the >settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. > >So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have >found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our >already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our >equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by >Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor >the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this >task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I >do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; >even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. > >All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am >missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no >avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 19:41:21 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:41:21 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not really - they are loaded within the case files on the Court of Appeals website (Arizona Court of Appeals, division 2 http://www.apltwo.ct.state.az.us/apl2.cfm ), but because I have to first log-in to my e-filer account and then select "view case docs" to access them, my guess is that they are not. -----Original Message----- From: David Andrews [mailto:dandrews at visi.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:28 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List; Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Without seeing one of the pdf's, it is hard to say, are these public files? Dave At 12:13 PM 7/21/2015, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to >find some workable answers. > >I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. >The court websites in our county are of varying levels of >accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences >are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different >methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court >of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in >the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but >it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them >through the state office of the courts to generate written documents >from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, >when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned >physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This >causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a >non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each >page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous >reading experience. > >So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have >found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our >already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally >taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither >a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in >JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to >peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the >luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT >likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. > >All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am >missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no >avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Tue Jul 21 19:47:04 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:47:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <005701d0c3bd$30d2c8e0$92785aa0$@labarrelaw.com> Message-ID: <000801d0c3ee$06052e60$120f8b20$@icloud.com> Hi Everyone, Thank you for contributing to this wonderful discussion. I didn't expect to receive so much meaningful feedback. I find Dr. Jernigan's discourse on independence very compelling, and I will take all your suggestions into consideration. Warm Regards, Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 9:59 AM To: Scott C. LaBarre ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Like Scott, I have found this intriguing. I come at it from a slightly different background, in that I was still able to read visually, in controlled spurts, while I was in law school and the first years of practice. Even as my sight declined, I still found ways to do everything independently, even though it took longer and longer hours - beyond that even normal for new lawyers - to accomplish. Once I needed the computer to be able to access information, the real need for changes in my ability to ask for assistance began, because as Scott points out, many things still will not be accessible. The ADA and companion laws should prevent that, but the reality is that you may find yourself in an agency or firm that utilizes an inaccessible file management program, an inaccessible time/attendance/benefits program, etc. While you should definitely register the proper legal complaints about these things, at the end of the day, your work still has to be done for the benefit of the client. Sometimes that will mean that you will have to rely on a sighted assistant or co-worker. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:58 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Scott C. LaBarre Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Greetings everyone, I have been following this thread with interest. I graduated law school in 1993 and thus confronted a different reality than those going through in this age. I absolutely had to rely on the use of a reader because we were using dos based computers that had dial up connections with the brand new internet. The vast majority of material was available only in print and even today, I suspect that the majority is still only available initially in hard copy print. The difference is, of course, that almost everything is born digital and thus there is a path to gaining access, either through rendering the digital material accessible or converting it into something accessible. In any event, for me, this conversation has been interesting because indicates how much times have changed. When I was a student, it went without saying that every blind student would require the use of a reader and for a law student heavy use of same. Now, the trend is for blind students to avoid readers, almost at all cost. In my practice, I largely rely on gaining access through digital means, but I still need my assistant to do a significant amount of reading. If I get an inaccessible electronic document or, believe it or not, get something in the mail that is only hard copy, I need her to read that document to me and then I identify the strategy I need to employ from there. If it is something that I will need again or it is something that could be important in one of my cases, I usually have her scan the document and convert it into an accessible text. Some times, if the document is not all that important and I have gained whatever information from it I need, I will have her dispose of it. It is still also true that in terms of scanning for something quicly, it is often faster for me to have my assistant hunt for something and then give me the info. The bottom line is that I do not believe I could practice law without my assistant acting as a reader on a rather frequent basis. It is also true to say that in the last en years, the amount of time that she actually has to read is gone down substantially. So, I pretty much agree with all the comments made. We should strive to be as independent as possible and use tools that allow us to do so . However, independence is more of a mental state and philosophy than usage of particular tools. Derek is right to recommend Dr. Jernigan's speech, the Nature of Independence, which I was fortunate enough to hear in person in 1993. I believe Derek referred everyone to the text link to the speech, but if you get a chance, watch the video or listen to the audio. Dr. Jernigan had a masterful form of delivery that we rarely encounter these days. I also agree that we should take all necessary measures to become employed. Although the ADA has opened up many doors in the last 25 years, it has barely moved the needle on employment, and that is something we must continue to combat in a variety of ways. As for endeavoring to get on law review or a law journal etc, those efforts certainly help to distinguish you. For those who are not fortunate to get on law review or who cannot maintain a high GPA, there is still hope. After a few years of practice, no one really cares whether you were on law review or what your GPA might have been. It then centers on the experience you have gained. Consequently, I think that one of the most critical things you can do is gain practical experience while in law school either through internships, clerkships, clinics,and the like. Originally, we were going to have a panel at this year's NABL's meeting about how blind lawyers practice differently, especially the differeing approachs based on when one graduated from law school. We couldn't fit that in this year but it will be a high priority for our meeting next year. I want to thank everyone for their comments on this thread and thank you for an interesting conversation which allowed me to reflect a bit on the good old days when I was young and back in law school. Best, Scott -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek Manners via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:54 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Derek Manners; Stewart, Christopher K Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why. Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for different folks to do things different ways. I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > > Laura: > > For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that > another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no > interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with > anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less > viable than mine and Derek's. > > Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. > If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, > more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do > myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the > organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me > knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and > living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my > opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is > the hobgoblin of little minds. > > Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try > for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the > employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. > Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the > journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some > employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal > experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a > ton of success in law school. > > Best, > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16. > law.harvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Tue Jul 21 20:06:27 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 15:06:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> Message-ID: <000a01d0c3f0$bb6dffa0$3249fee0$@icloud.com> Hello Nicole, There is nothing "certain" about law school waiting lists other than the fact that you will receive a final decision on your application. As you hopefully realize by now, wait list offers of admission are extended when an admitted student withdraws from the entering class, which may or may not happen at this point, given that tuition deposit deadlines already passed at most (if not all) schools. Additionally, even if a spot does open up, the Admissions Committee may accept someone else, since there are hundreds of applicants on most waiting lists. That said, go ahead with trying to get your books, but your first priority should be taking advantage of every available opportunity to try to get off the waiting list, especially if you haven't been accepted to a law school you would be willing to attend if Maryland doesn't have a spot for you. Good luck! Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Askins via blindlaw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 7:50 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Nicole Askins Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for > my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line > through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this > method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition > to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font > type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to > know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription > service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how to format legal documents correctly. > Any feedback is appreciated. > > > > Best, > > > > Michal > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail > .com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Tue Jul 21 20:22:09 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 15:22:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L Message-ID: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> Dear All, As most of you know, I plan to enroll at the University of Illinois College of Law this fall. However, while Illinois Law is a great school, it is not my first choice. Consequently, if I cannot get off the UCLA, USC, Northwestern, or University of Chicago waiting list, I am seriously considering transferring after my first year if accepted to one of these schools. That being said, while most law schools welcome transfer applicants, I was advised that it may not necessarily be in my best interest to take advantage of this option despite the largely universal first-year curriculum, because of factors like class rank and minor differences across schools in their 1L programs. I was further told that it is not normal for JD students to transfer. What do you all think about this? As always, any feedback is appreciated. Best, Michal From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 20:30:20 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 20:30:20 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yay! After downloading the files to my office computer (as PDF), and then changing virtually every setting I could find in Adobe, it finally seems to be reading continuously, if nothing else. I know that our network will require me to re-set those changes in Adobe each and every morning (and more, since we frequently have to re-boot it because of network errors during the workday), but at least for now, success. Thanks for the suggestions, Steve! -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:06 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Steve Jacobson Subject: RE: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Steve - Thanks so much for the insights on Adobe - not repeats, and very helpful. I will check to see what we are allowed as users to change - like I said, the network policy is somewhat draconian around here, and even then, does not keep things running well. I will definitely try to change what I can to see if it improves things. I have mentioned purchasing a different OCR program many times to the powers that be - unfortunately, the latest comment I got was "nothing is perfect" and that I should have my assistant read inaccessible / problematic documents to me instead, the standard code language for nothing else will be done to improve the situation. Susan -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:02 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Steve Jacobson Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Susan, I am sorry if this has already been mentioned, but some of the settings that need to be changed are in Adobe Acrobat and not within JAWS. For example, there is a setting that determines if an entire document will be made available to JAWS or whether it will be broken into pages. In general, if you tell Adobe to always make the entire document available at once to the JAWS Virtual Cursor, you probably can't take advantage of bookmarks set in the PDF which can be useful on large documents if they are used. Second, there are several reading order options within Adobe. If it is not already specified, sometimes telling Adobe to "read left to right, top to bottom" rather than to "infer reading order from Document" you can have better results. Whether these options help or not is not something I can know, though. Finally, if nothing above has worked or can work for you, you certainly don't need to be printing out the entire document and rescanning it. OCR programs like OmniPage and FineReader contain logic that will go in and get the text from PDF's and I believe they will grab text without doing OCR if it is available. Kurzweil 1000 will also create a virtual printer that will let you print out a PDF and then have it recognized by Kurzweil 1000. Finally, Nuance, the company that makes OmniPage, also has specific PDF software that is supposed to let you convert PDF's to Word for example. The version that I have used in the past that came with OmniPage did pretty well. I hope something here is helpful, but I'm sorry if you've heard it all before. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Been there, done that, unfortunately. Our ADA officer is very helpful, but he has no authority over the courts because of how are county is run, and seemingly very limited power over our county IT, the new director of which made a very discriminatory comment in front of an entire roomful of people present for a meeting on the subject of the network and machinery last month. In fact, the ADA rep thinks I may have to resort to litigation to get compliance from the multiple players involved, which I can neither afford in terms of money or time. In the meantime, my work is still due, so I am trying to find other ways to handle this. I will let you all know if anything improves, though! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Hi Susan, I would talk with the ADA compliance officer in the county. Make them aware of inaccessible documents. I know that section 508 applies to federal government but some counties do want to follow it. Website accessibility is now part of the ADA compliance. Check the new document on the website. www.ada.gov has a new document on state & local government guidelines. Let us know if you have success. Yasmin Reyazuddin Aging & Disability Services Montgomery County Government Department of Health & Human Services 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850 240-777-0311 (MC311) 240-777-1556 (personal) 240-777-1495 (fax) office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:13 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40mo ntgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From al.elia at aol.com Tue Jul 21 20:32:18 2015 From: al.elia at aol.com (ALBERT ELIA) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:32:18 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is going to sound stupid, but if you have Adobe Acrobat Pro, try opening the PDF in Pro and saving it with accessibility options checked. If it is already checked, try unchecking it, saving, re-opening, and re-checking it. I had this problem with some of my publisher-provided textbooks in law school, and this trick sometimes worked. The other option, if that doesn't work, might be to open the PDF, print it to a new PDF, and then OCR that second PDF. That should mimic your print/scan/OCR procedure, just without the actual printing and scanning. Good luck. On Jul 21, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. > > I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite > the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. > > So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. > > All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 21:03:28 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 21:03:28 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L In-Reply-To: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> References: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> Message-ID: We had a few transfer students while I was in school at the University of Arizona. In the end, though, one practical concern may be where you plan to live / practice post-graduation. While a great deal of the law is relatively consistent throughout the country, there are other things that vary widely from state-to-state, and could add to the general nightmare known as the bar exam. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:22 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Michal Nowicki Subject: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L Dear All, As most of you know, I plan to enroll at the University of Illinois College of Law this fall. However, while Illinois Law is a great school, it is not my first choice. Consequently, if I cannot get off the UCLA, USC, Northwestern, or University of Chicago waiting list, I am seriously considering transferring after my first year if accepted to one of these schools. That being said, while most law schools welcome transfer applicants, I was advised that it may not necessarily be in my best interest to take advantage of this option despite the largely universal first-year curriculum, because of factors like class rank and minor differences across schools in their 1L programs. I was further told that it is not normal for JD students to transfer. What do you all think about this? As always, any feedback is appreciated. Best, Michal _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 21:06:08 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 21:06:08 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My agency only purchased two licenses for Adobe Pro - neither of which is assigned to me, unfortunately, so I can't do that. If we ever get to the point that I have a license on my computer, or the clerks doing the processing of disclosure materials for trial cases have time to do that, it sounds like a great option. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:32 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: ALBERT ELIA Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet This is going to sound stupid, but if you have Adobe Acrobat Pro, try opening the PDF in Pro and saving it with accessibility options checked. If it is already checked, try unchecking it, saving, re-opening, and re-checking it. I had this problem with some of my publisher-provided textbooks in law school, and this trick sometimes worked. The other option, if that doesn't work, might be to open the PDF, print it to a new PDF, and then OCR that second PDF. That should mimic your print/scan/OCR procedure, just without the actual printing and scanning. Good luck. On Jul 21, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. > > I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despit e > the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. > > So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. > > All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Jul 21 21:10:47 2015 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:10:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7E6CEAB5-C5D7-4FDF-8841-191070B56853@yahoo.com> This may be a non-starter, but I have at times turned to a program called Nuance Power PDF Advanced. It does a pretty good job of doing OCR on inaccessible PDF's, and it isn't nearly as expensive as, say, Kurzweil 1000. I think it costs around $100. If your agency is unwilling to make such a minimal expenditure or assign you a license for Adobe PDF Pro, would they at least allow you to buy it yourself and install it on your computer? Obviously, this would be less than ideal, but it may be an option. All Best, James Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > > My agency only purchased two licenses for Adobe Pro - neither of which is assigned to me, unfortunately, so I can't do that. If we ever get to the point that I have a license on my computer, or the clerks doing the processing of disclosure materials for trial cases have time to do that, it sounds like a great option. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:32 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: ALBERT ELIA > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet > > This is going to sound stupid, but if you have Adobe Acrobat Pro, try opening the PDF in Pro and saving it with accessibility options checked. If it is already checked, try unchecking it, saving, re-opening, and re-checking it. I had this problem with some of my publisher-provided textbooks in law school, and this trick sometimes worked. > > The other option, if that doesn't work, might be to open the PDF, print it to a new PDF, and then OCR that second PDF. That should mimic your print/scan/OCR procedure, just without the actual printing and scanning. > > Good luck. > > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. >> >> I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despit > e >> the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. >> >> So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. >> >> All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 21:24:13 2015 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody J. Davis) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:24:13 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L In-Reply-To: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> References: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> Message-ID: <1900628A-922B-48B3-9065-AFB52DE9E2CF@gmail.com> Michal, I would recommend waiting until after your first semester before you even consider transferring. I was placed on the waitlist of a top-tier law school, but chose to remove myself from the waitlist and spend my first year at my second choice, an unranked school that no one knows about. Now, having finished my first year, You couldn't pay me anything short of full tuition to get me to transfer. My advice, worry about transfer questions in January. For now, just focus on your first semester. Cody J. Davis JD/MPA Candidate, 2018 Campbell University school of Law North Carolina State University Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: > > Dear All, > > > > As most of you know, I plan to enroll at the University of Illinois College > of Law this fall. However, while Illinois Law is a great school, it is not > my first choice. Consequently, if I cannot get off the UCLA, USC, > Northwestern, or University of Chicago waiting list, I am seriously > considering transferring after my first year if accepted to one of these > schools. That being said, while most law schools welcome transfer > applicants, I was advised that it may not necessarily be in my best interest > to take advantage of this option despite the largely universal first-year > curriculum, because of factors like class rank and minor differences across > schools in their 1L programs. I was further told that it is not normal for > JD students to transfer. What do you all think about this? As always, any > feedback is appreciated. > > > > Best, > > > > Michal > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Jul 21 21:31:16 2015 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:31:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L In-Reply-To: <1900628A-922B-48B3-9065-AFB52DE9E2CF@gmail.com> References: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> <1900628A-922B-48B3-9065-AFB52DE9E2CF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D72F642-3A36-4889-99FA-91233FD5C8A6@yahoo.com> I would have to agree with Cody here, at least at this point. I will be attending Ohio State in the fall, and although it is not a T14--my initial objective as well--they have been nothing but accommodating so far, and like Illinois, it is the flagship state school and has a strong alumni network in the state. If you're dead set on big law, then transferring might be in your best interests. Otherwise, I would take a wait and see approach for now. I hope this helps.All Best, James Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Cody J. Davis via blindlaw wrote: > > Michal, > > I would recommend waiting until after your first semester before you even consider transferring. > > I was placed on the waitlist of a top-tier law school, but chose to remove myself from the waitlist and spend my first year at my second choice, an unranked school that no one knows about. > > Now, having finished my first year, You couldn't pay me anything short of full tuition to get me to transfer. > > My advice, worry about transfer questions in January. For now, just focus on your first semester. > > Cody J. Davis > JD/MPA Candidate, 2018 > Campbell University school of Law > North Carolina State University > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Dear All, >> >> >> >> As most of you know, I plan to enroll at the University of Illinois College >> of Law this fall. However, while Illinois Law is a great school, it is not >> my first choice. Consequently, if I cannot get off the UCLA, USC, >> Northwestern, or University of Chicago waiting list, I am seriously >> considering transferring after my first year if accepted to one of these >> schools. That being said, while most law schools welcome transfer >> applicants, I was advised that it may not necessarily be in my best interest >> to take advantage of this option despite the largely universal first-year >> curriculum, because of factors like class rank and minor differences across >> schools in their 1L programs. I was further told that it is not normal for >> JD students to transfer. What do you all think about this? As always, any >> feedback is appreciated. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> Michal >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Tue Jul 21 21:41:05 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:41:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L In-Reply-To: <8D72F642-3A36-4889-99FA-91233FD5C8A6@yahoo.com> References: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> <1900628A-922B-48B3-9065-AFB52DE9E2CF@gmail.com> <8D72F642-3A36-4889-99FA-91233FD5C8A6@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0C72A6F1-57E8-42E2-9702-5CB4C69B40D6@jd16.law.harvard.edu> I agree with a wait and see approach, nevertheless, Harvard has had a number of transfer students that I've met that are thrilled they transferred. Just kill your classes and leave your options open. At the end of the day, that'll help you whether you stay or go. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:31 PM, James Fetter via blindlaw wrote: > > I would have to agree with Cody here, at least at this point. I will be attending Ohio State in the fall, and although it is not a T14--my initial objective as well--they have been nothing but accommodating so far, and like Illinois, it is the flagship state school and has a strong alumni network in the state. If you're dead set on big law, then transferring might be in your best interests. Otherwise, I would take a wait and see approach for now. I hope this helps.All Best, > James > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Cody J. Davis via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Michal, >> >> I would recommend waiting until after your first semester before you even consider transferring. >> >> I was placed on the waitlist of a top-tier law school, but chose to remove myself from the waitlist and spend my first year at my second choice, an unranked school that no one knows about. >> >> Now, having finished my first year, You couldn't pay me anything short of full tuition to get me to transfer. >> >> My advice, worry about transfer questions in January. For now, just focus on your first semester. >> >> Cody J. Davis >> JD/MPA Candidate, 2018 >> Campbell University school of Law >> North Carolina State University >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> >>> >>> As most of you know, I plan to enroll at the University of Illinois College >>> of Law this fall. However, while Illinois Law is a great school, it is not >>> my first choice. Consequently, if I cannot get off the UCLA, USC, >>> Northwestern, or University of Chicago waiting list, I am seriously >>> considering transferring after my first year if accepted to one of these >>> schools. That being said, while most law schools welcome transfer >>> applicants, I was advised that it may not necessarily be in my best interest >>> to take advantage of this option despite the largely universal first-year >>> curriculum, because of factors like class rank and minor differences across >>> schools in their 1L programs. I was further told that it is not normal for >>> JD students to transfer. What do you all think about this? As always, any >>> feedback is appreciated. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Michal >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From dandrews at visi.com Tue Jul 21 21:44:43 2015 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:44:43 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I went to the web site, and downloaded a file, from decisions link, and viewed it. The file appeared to be straight text, and I was able to read it without problems. Technically the file was not completely accessible, but I would consider it functionally accessible. There is no way to know if it was produced by the same software that produces the files you have to read. Your problems are most likely with the software programs that take court documents and output PDF's. I believe you said they were proprietary programs. Solution would involve either changing them to produce accessible output, or remediating the PDF's to be more accessible. In theory some of the remediation could probably be automated, with the right tools, but this would cost money. My guess is that a lack of funds is ultimately behind many of the problems. Although, the site I looked at did have accessibility problems. You could probably use it once you got used to it, but many badly labeled, or inproperly labeled links etc. Sorry I don't have better answer, if you can find someone to sue them over access, this might get their attention. Dave p.s. Maybe the way to go through this is to request reasonable accommodations, and when they don't deliver use employment stuff instead of accessibility. DA At 02:41 PM 7/21/2015, Susan Kelly wrote: >Not really - they are loaded within the case files on the Court of >Appeals website (Arizona Court of Appeals, division 2 >http://www.apltwo.ct.state.az.us/apl2.cfm ), but because I have to >first log-in to my e-filer account and then select "view case docs" >to access them, my guess is that they are not. > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Andrews [mailto:dandrews at visi.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:28 PM >To: Blind Law Mailing List; Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet > >Without seeing one of the pdf's, it is hard to say, are these public files? > >Dave > >At 12:13 PM 7/21/2015, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > >Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to > >find some workable answers. > > > >I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. > >The court websites in our county are of varying levels of > >accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences > >are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different > >methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court > >of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in > >the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but > >it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them > >through the state office of the courts to generate written documents > >from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, > >when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned > >physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This > >causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a > >non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each > >page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous > >reading experience. > > > >So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have > >found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our > >already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally > >taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither > >a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in > >JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to > >peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the > >luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT > >likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. > > > >All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am > >missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no > >avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. >E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 21 22:07:46 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 15:07:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30C71494236D4AED87B768985AA5EF3D@Spike> JAWS is not equipped to deal with these files in its own right. Because they have been scanned they will need to go through some type of OCR program. Ideally purchasing a program like Kurzweil or another program. There is a service that I've never used called pdf2text.com that people on other lists say works. hope that helps. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:13 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List ; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From dandrews at visi.com Tue Jul 21 22:20:24 2015 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:20:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: <30C71494236D4AED87B768985AA5EF3D@Spike> References: <30C71494236D4AED87B768985AA5EF3D@Spike> Message-ID: Recent versions of JAWS, in fact can do OCR on a screen or document. The result may not always be quite as good as that of a stand-alone OCR program, but it isn't bad. Dave At 05:07 PM 7/21/2015, you wrote: >JAWS is not equipped to deal with these files in its own right. >Because they have been scanned they will need to go through some >type of OCR program. Ideally purchasing a program like Kurzweil or >another program. There is a service that I've never used called >pdf2text.com that people on other lists say works. hope that helps. >Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal >1237 P Street >Fresno ca 93721 >559-266-9237 > >-----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:13 AM >To: Blind Law Mailing List ; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet > >Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate >to find some workable answers. > >I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile >appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of >accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more >differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have >different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed >in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents >to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a >PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs >available to them through the state office of the courts to generate >written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain >bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as >opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is >embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the >page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading >halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the >settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. > >So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have >found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our >already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our >equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by >Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor >the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this >task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I >do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; >even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. > >All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am >missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no >avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 22:20:50 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 22:20:50 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: <7E6CEAB5-C5D7-4FDF-8841-191070B56853@yahoo.com> References: <7E6CEAB5-C5D7-4FDF-8841-191070B56853@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am not sure that the IT department would permit it, but if nothing else, this is giving me a good list of alternatives to provide at the next technology meeting with that department. All suggestions are much appreciated! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Fetter via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:11 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: James Fetter Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet This may be a non-starter, but I have at times turned to a program called Nuance Power PDF Advanced. It does a pretty good job of doing OCR on inaccessible PDF's, and it isn't nearly as expensive as, say, Kurzweil 1000. I think it costs around $100. If your agency is unwilling to make such a minimal expenditure or assign you a license for Adobe PDF Pro, would they at least allow you to buy it yourself and install it on your computer? Obviously, this would be less than ideal, but it may be an option. All Best, James Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > > My agency only purchased two licenses for Adobe Pro - neither of which is assigned to me, unfortunately, so I can't do that. If we ever get to the point that I have a license on my computer, or the clerks doing the processing of disclosure materials for trial cases have time to do that, it sounds like a great option. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:32 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: ALBERT ELIA > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet > > This is going to sound stupid, but if you have Adobe Acrobat Pro, try opening the PDF in Pro and saving it with accessibility options checked. If it is already checked, try unchecking it, saving, re-opening, and re-checking it. I had this problem with some of my publisher-provided textbooks in law school, and this trick sometimes worked. > > The other option, if that doesn't work, might be to open the PDF, print it to a new PDF, and then OCR that second PDF. That should mimic your print/scan/OCR procedure, just without the actual printing and scanning. > > Good luck. > > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. >> >> I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despi t > e >> the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. >> >> So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. >> >> All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jul 21 22:29:55 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 22:29:55 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David - Thanks for checking. Yes, I have many complaints over changes that the COA has made. It used to be a relatively usable site, but they have gotten stuck on the "pretty visual image" trend, without continuing to make it functional for folks with visual impairment. It is likely to become even more of a nightmare once they are forced to abandon their e-filer program and adopt the TurboCourt system utilized by Division One and the Az Supreme Court. I also think it is the programs that used by the court reporters - we used to be able to at least request the file electronically from the reporter, in ASCII format that we could convert to whichever word processing program we used at the time, but it was always a cost on top of the prepared transcript, and is no longer even an option. Will keep trying to get some system in place, though! Susan -----Original Message----- From: David Andrews [mailto:dandrews at visi.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:45 PM To: Susan Kelly; Blind Law Mailing List; Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Subject: RE: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet I went to the web site, and downloaded a file, from decisions link, and viewed it. The file appeared to be straight text, and I was able to read it without problems. Technically the file was not completely accessible, but I would consider it functionally accessible. There is no way to know if it was produced by the same software that produces the files you have to read. Your problems are most likely with the software programs that take court documents and output PDF's. I believe you said they were proprietary programs. Solution would involve either changing them to produce accessible output, or remediating the PDF's to be more accessible. In theory some of the remediation could probably be automated, with the right tools, but this would cost money. My guess is that a lack of funds is ultimately behind many of the problems. Although, the site I looked at did have accessibility problems. You could probably use it once you got used to it, but many badly labeled, or inproperly labeled links etc. Sorry I don't have better answer, if you can find someone to sue them over access, this might get their attention. Dave p.s. Maybe the way to go through this is to request reasonable accommodations, and when they don't deliver use employment stuff instead of accessibility. DA At 02:41 PM 7/21/2015, Susan Kelly wrote: >Not really - they are loaded within the case files on the Court of >Appeals website (Arizona Court of Appeals, division 2 >http://www.apltwo.ct.state.az.us/apl2.cfm ), but because I have to >first log-in to my e-filer account and then select "view case docs" >to access them, my guess is that they are not. > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Andrews [mailto:dandrews at visi.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:28 PM >To: Blind Law Mailing List; Blind Law Mailing List; >(gui-talk at nfbnet.org) >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the >internet > >Without seeing one of the pdf's, it is hard to say, are these public files? > >Dave > >At 12:13 PM 7/21/2015, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > >Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate > >to find some workable answers. > > > >I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. > >The court websites in our county are of varying levels of > >accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences > >are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different > >methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the > >court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the > >COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF > >format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs > >available to them through the state office of the courts to generate > >written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain > >bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as > >opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is > >embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the > >page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading > >halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings > >within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. > > > >So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have > >found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our > >already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally > >taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. > >Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR > >program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, > >thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not > >have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if > >I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. > > > >All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am > >missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no > >avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry. >E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From d-benbow at live.com Tue Jul 21 22:52:42 2015 From: d-benbow at live.com (Dawn Benbow) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:52:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <005701d0c3bd$30d2c8e0$92785aa0$@labarrelaw.com> Message-ID: Hi, As a blind paralegal I come at this from another angle myself. :) I just graduated with my Bachelors in Paralegal Studies and was hired within a month of graduation at the small firm where I had my required internship. The firm where I work is absolutely wonderful about accessability things! My supervising attorney took me as an intern on the day I went in for the interview. He had no doubts at all of my abbility to do what I said I could do after he saw my resume and portfolio of work that I brought with me. This was the *only* internship interview where my blindness was only mentioned in passing, when he asked me what he could do to help me learn my way around the office! He prefers when I can work in the office, but I have moderate to severe adult onset asthma and severe allergies, which I'm under specialists care for, and I can't always make it in. So I work from home. As most of the client files have a physical folder, as well as an online one, it is a workable system for me. If I need information from a document that hasn't been uploaded to our business dropbox, then either an intern, or one of my co-workers finds the information that I need. Going through school I rarely used a reader, mostly finding ways to use my technology instead of a human reader. What's really nice, is that if I now need things read for me at work, it isn't a problem for anyone there, even my boss, to look up something for me and get me what I need. :) It's still just a one attorney office, with me and one other full time legal assistant and a part time office manager, I love working there because I'm not seen as a blind person there. Just as a person. I would take this job any day over working in a big law firm, even if they offered better pay, simply because I enjoy going to work every morning that I'm able to, and I know that I'm appreciated there and that everyone in the office will help me in whatever way I request, if something isn't accessible for me. I was blessed to have found and been hired at my dream job right out of college. I know how rare that is for anyone, muchless someone who is blind, in our current job market. I always find it interesting to hear all the different perspectives on this list, and I enjoy hearing about how we all acomplish things in different ways. It's that kind of sharing of how we do things that can really allow us to help each other. No one way is better than any other. It's all simply a matter of what is the best way for each of us at the current time. Because down the road, our situations can take unexpected turns and what worked well for us before, may not be the answer the next time. I'm glad that we can all learn different ways to do things from each other without having to feel superior in some way. :) Dawn, and my soon to be retired guide dog Baskin, who's the office mascot :) Dawn Benbow, Paralegal Law Offices of David C. Helm, PLLC 598 N. Mill St., MI, 48170 work 1 (248) 679-8804 Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 10:59 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > > Like Scott, I have found this intriguing. I come at it from a slightly different background, in that I was still able to read visually, in controlled spurts, while I was in law school and the first years of practice. Even as my sight declined, I still found ways to do everything independently, even though it took longer and longer hours - beyond that even normal for new lawyers - to accomplish. Once I needed the computer to be able to access information, the real need for changes in my ability to ask for assistance began, because as Scott points out, many things still will not be accessible. The ADA and companion laws should prevent that, but the reality is that you may find yourself in an agency or firm that utilizes an inaccessible file management program, an inaccessible time/attendance/benefits program, etc. While you should definitely register the proper legal complaints about these things, at the end of the day, your work still has to be done for the benefit of the client. Sometimes that will mean that you will have to rely on a sighted assistant or co-worker. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:58 AM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Scott C. LaBarre > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook > > Greetings everyone, I have been following this thread with interest. I graduated law school in 1993 and thus confronted a different reality than those going through in this age. I absolutely had to rely on the use of a reader because we were using dos based computers that had dial up connections with the brand new internet. The vast majority of material was available only in print and even today, I suspect that the majority is still only available initially in hard copy print. The difference is, of course, that almost everything is born digital and thus there is a path to gaining access, either through rendering the digital material accessible or converting it into something accessible. > > In any event, for me, this conversation has been interesting because indicates how much times have changed. When I was a student, it went without saying that every blind student would require the use of a reader and for a law student heavy use of same. Now, the trend is for blind students to avoid readers, almost at all cost. > > In my practice, I largely rely on gaining access through digital means, but I still need my assistant to do a significant amount of reading. If I get an inaccessible electronic document or, believe it or not, get something in the mail that is only hard copy, I need her to read that document to me and then I identify the strategy I need to employ from there. If it is something that I will need again or it is something that could be important in one of my cases, I usually have her scan the document and convert it into an accessible text. Some times, if the document is not all that important and I have gained whatever information from it I need, I will have her dispose of it. It is still also true that in terms of scanning for something quicly, it is often faster for me to have my assistant hunt for something and then give me the info. The bottom line is that I do not believe I could practice law without my assistant acting as a reader on a rather frequent basis. It is also true to say that in the last en years, the amount of time that she actually has to read is gone down substantially. > > So, I pretty much agree with all the comments made. We should strive to be as independent as possible and use tools that allow us to do so . However, independence is more of a mental state and philosophy than usage of particular tools. Derek is right to recommend Dr. Jernigan's speech, the Nature of Independence, which I was fortunate enough to hear in person in 1993. I believe Derek referred everyone to the text link to the speech, but if you get a chance, watch the video or listen to the audio. Dr. Jernigan had a masterful form of delivery that we rarely encounter these days. I also agree that we should take all necessary measures to become employed. > Although the ADA has opened up many doors in the last 25 years, it has barely moved the needle on employment, and that is something we must continue to combat in a variety of ways. > > As for endeavoring to get on law review or a law journal etc, those efforts certainly help to distinguish you. For those who are not fortunate to get on law review or who cannot maintain a high GPA, there is still hope. After a few years of practice, no one really cares whether you were on law review or what your GPA might have been. It then centers on the experience you have gained. Consequently, I think that one of the most critical things you can do is gain practical experience while in law school either through internships, clerkships, clinics,and the like. > > Originally, we were going to have a panel at this year's NABL's meeting about how blind lawyers practice differently, especially the differeing approachs based on when one graduated from law school. We couldn't fit that in this year but it will be a high priority for our meeting next year. I want to thank everyone for their comments on this thread and thank you for an interesting conversation which allowed me to reflect a bit on the good old days when I was young and back in law school. > > Best, > Scott > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek Manners via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:54 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Derek Manners; Stewart, Christopher K > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook > > Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why. > Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for different folks to do things different ways. > > I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. > > https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw > wrote: >> >> Laura: >> >> For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that >> another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no >> interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with >> anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less >> viable than mine and Derek's. >> >> Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. >> If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, >> more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do >> myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the >> organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me >> knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and >> living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my >> opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is >> the hobgoblin of little minds. >> >> Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try >> for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the >> employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. >> Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the >> journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some >> employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal >> experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a >> ton of success in law school. >> >> Best, >> Chris >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16. >> law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/d-benbow%40live.com From Attorney at alcidonislaw.com Tue Jul 21 23:06:33 2015 From: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis, Esquire) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:06:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <005701d0c3bd$30d2c8e0$92785aa0$@labarrelaw.com> Message-ID: <96C5BA3815E546199559D6B8C4E947ED@RodTHINK> I would suggest that the name of this employer is forwarded to your state affiliate so he can be properly congratulated. The OVR Director of PA is really trying to acknowledge such wonderful employers of individuals with disabilities, I know. Rod -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Benbow via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:52 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Dawn Benbow Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook Hi, As a blind paralegal I come at this from another angle myself. :) I just graduated with my Bachelors in Paralegal Studies and was hired within a month of graduation at the small firm where I had my required internship. The firm where I work is absolutely wonderful about accessability things! My supervising attorney took me as an intern on the day I went in for the interview. He had no doubts at all of my abbility to do what I said I could do after he saw my resume and portfolio of work that I brought with me. This was the *only* internship interview where my blindness was only mentioned in passing, when he asked me what he could do to help me learn my way around the office! He prefers when I can work in the office, but I have moderate to severe adult onset asthma and severe allergies, which I'm under specialists care for, and I can't always make it in. So I work from home. As most of the client files have a physical folder, as well as an online one, it is a workable system for me. If I need information from a document that hasn't been uploaded to our business dropbox, then either an intern, or one of my co-workers finds the information that I need. Going through school I rarely used a reader, mostly finding ways to use my technology instead of a human reader. What's really nice, is that if I now need things read for me at work, it isn't a problem for anyone there, even my boss, to look up something for me and get me what I need. :) It's still just a one attorney office, with me and one other full time legal assistant and a part time office manager, I love working there because I'm not seen as a blind person there. Just as a person. I would take this job any day over working in a big law firm, even if they offered better pay, simply because I enjoy going to work every morning that I'm able to, and I know that I'm appreciated there and that everyone in the office will help me in whatever way I request, if something isn't accessible for me. I was blessed to have found and been hired at my dream job right out of college. I know how rare that is for anyone, muchless someone who is blind, in our current job market. I always find it interesting to hear all the different perspectives on this list, and I enjoy hearing about how we all acomplish things in different ways. It's that kind of sharing of how we do things that can really allow us to help each other. No one way is better than any other. It's all simply a matter of what is the best way for each of us at the current time. Because down the road, our situations can take unexpected turns and what worked well for us before, may not be the answer the next time. I'm glad that we can all learn different ways to do things from each other without having to feel superior in some way. :) Dawn, and my soon to be retired guide dog Baskin, who's the office mascot :) Dawn Benbow, Paralegal Law Offices of David C. Helm, PLLC 598 N. Mill St., MI, 48170 work 1 (248) 679-8804 Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 10:59 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw > wrote: > > Like Scott, I have found this intriguing. I come at it from a slightly > different background, in that I was still able to read visually, in > controlled spurts, while I was in law school and the first years of > practice. Even as my sight declined, I still found ways to do everything > independently, even though it took longer and longer hours - beyond that > even normal for new lawyers - to accomplish. Once I needed the computer > to be able to access information, the real need for changes in my ability > to ask for assistance began, because as Scott points out, many things > still will not be accessible. The ADA and companion laws should prevent > that, but the reality is that you may find yourself in an agency or firm > that utilizes an inaccessible file management program, an inaccessible > time/attendance/benefits program, etc. While you should definitely > register the proper legal complaints about these things, at the end of the > day, your work still has to be done for the benefit of the client. > Sometimes that will mean that you will have to rely on a sighted assistant > or co-worker. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. > LaBarre via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:58 AM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Scott C. LaBarre > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook > > Greetings everyone, I have been following this thread with interest. I > graduated law school in 1993 and thus confronted a different reality than > those going through in this age. I absolutely had to rely on the use of a > reader because we were using dos based computers that had dial up > connections with the brand new internet. The vast majority of material > was available only in print and even today, I suspect that the majority is > still only available initially in hard copy print. The difference is, of > course, that almost everything is born digital and thus there is a path to > gaining access, either through rendering the digital material accessible > or converting it into something accessible. > > In any event, for me, this conversation has been interesting because > indicates how much times have changed. When I was a student, it went > without saying that every blind student would require the use of a reader > and for a law student heavy use of same. Now, the trend is for blind > students to avoid readers, almost at all cost. > > In my practice, I largely rely on gaining access through digital means, > but I still need my assistant to do a significant amount of reading. If I > get an inaccessible electronic document or, believe it or not, get > something in the mail that is only hard copy, I need her to read that > document to me and then I identify the strategy I need to employ from > there. If it is something that I will need again or it is something that > could be important in one of my cases, I usually have her scan the > document and convert it into an accessible text. Some times, if the > document is not all that important and I have gained whatever information > from it I need, I will have her dispose of it. It is still also true that > in terms of scanning for something quicly, it is often faster for me to > have my assistant hunt for something and then give me the info. The > bottom line is that I do not believe I could practice law without my > assistant acting as a reader on a rather frequent basis. It is also true > to say that in the last en years, the amount of time that she actually has > to read is gone down substantially. > > So, I pretty much agree with all the comments made. We should strive to > be as independent as possible and use tools that allow us to do so . > However, independence is more of a mental state and philosophy than usage > of particular tools. Derek is right to recommend Dr. Jernigan's speech, > the Nature of Independence, which I was fortunate enough to hear in person > in 1993. I believe Derek referred everyone to the text link to the > speech, but if you get a chance, watch the video or listen to the audio. > Dr. Jernigan had a masterful form of delivery that we rarely encounter > these days. I also agree that we should take all necessary measures to > become employed. > Although the ADA has opened up many doors in the last 25 years, it has > barely moved the needle on employment, and that is something we must > continue to combat in a variety of ways. > > As for endeavoring to get on law review or a law journal etc, those > efforts certainly help to distinguish you. For those who are not > fortunate to get on law review or who cannot maintain a high GPA, there is > still hope. After a few years of practice, no one really cares whether > you were on law review or what your GPA might have been. It then centers > on the experience you have gained. Consequently, I think that one of the > most critical things you can do is gain practical experience while in law > school either through internships, clerkships, clinics,and the like. > > Originally, we were going to have a panel at this year's NABL's meeting > about how blind lawyers practice differently, especially the differeing > approachs based on when one graduated from law school. We couldn't fit > that in this year but it will be a high priority for our meeting next > year. I want to thank everyone for their comments on this thread and > thank you for an interesting conversation which allowed me to reflect a > bit on the good old days when I was young and back in law school. > > Best, > Scott > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek > Manners via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:54 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Derek Manners; Stewart, Christopher K > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook > > Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why. > Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for > different folks to do things different ways. > > I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. > > https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw > wrote: >> >> Laura: >> >> For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that >> another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no >> interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with >> anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less >> viable than mine and Derek's. >> >> Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader. >> If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, >> more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do >> myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the >> organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me >> knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and >> living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my >> opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is >> the hobgoblin of little minds. >> >> Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try >> for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the >> employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today. >> Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the >> journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some >> employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal >> experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a >> ton of success in law school. >> >> Best, >> Chris >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16. >> law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/d-benbow%40live.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Tue Jul 21 23:50:13 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:50:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L In-Reply-To: <0C72A6F1-57E8-42E2-9702-5CB4C69B40D6@jd16.law.harvard.edu> References: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> <1900628A-922B-48B3-9065-AFB52DE9E2CF@gmail.com> <8D72F642-3A36-4889-99FA-91233FD5C8A6@yahoo.com> <0C72A6F1-57E8-42E2-9702-5CB4C69B40D6@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <001801d0c40f$ff14c850$fd3e58f0$@icloud.com> Hi All, Thank you for your advice. I forgot to mention one important consideration in my post: namely, that I intend to practice in California, which has one of the most challenging Bar exams in the country. Please let me know if that changes things. Best, Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek Manners via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 4:41 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Derek Manners Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L I agree with a wait and see approach, nevertheless, Harvard has had a number of transfer students that I've met that are thrilled they transferred. Just kill your classes and leave your options open. At the end of the day, that'll help you whether you stay or go. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:31 PM, James Fetter via blindlaw wrote: > > I would have to agree with Cody here, at least at this point. I will > be attending Ohio State in the fall, and although it is not a T14--my > initial objective as well--they have been nothing but accommodating so > far, and like Illinois, it is the flagship state school and has a > strong alumni network in the state. If you're dead set on big law, > then transferring might be in your best interests. Otherwise, I would > take a wait and see approach for now. I hope this helps.All Best, > James > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Cody J. Davis via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Michal, >> >> I would recommend waiting until after your first semester before you even consider transferring. >> >> I was placed on the waitlist of a top-tier law school, but chose to remove myself from the waitlist and spend my first year at my second choice, an unranked school that no one knows about. >> >> Now, having finished my first year, You couldn't pay me anything short of full tuition to get me to transfer. >> >> My advice, worry about transfer questions in January. For now, just focus on your first semester. >> >> Cody J. Davis >> JD/MPA Candidate, 2018 >> Campbell University school of Law >> North Carolina State University >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> >>> >>> As most of you know, I plan to enroll at the University of Illinois >>> College of Law this fall. However, while Illinois Law is a great >>> school, it is not my first choice. Consequently, if I cannot get >>> off the UCLA, USC, Northwestern, or University of Chicago waiting >>> list, I am seriously considering transferring after my first year if >>> accepted to one of these schools. That being said, while most law >>> schools welcome transfer applicants, I was advised that it may not >>> necessarily be in my best interest to take advantage of this option >>> despite the largely universal first-year curriculum, because of >>> factors like class rank and minor differences across schools in >>> their 1L programs. I was further told that it is not normal for JD >>> students to transfer. What do you all think about this? As always, any feedback is appreciated. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Michal >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yaho >> o.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16. > law.harvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From wickps at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 00:03:01 2015 From: wickps at gmail.com (Paul Wick) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:03:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L In-Reply-To: <001801d0c40f$ff14c850$fd3e58f0$@icloud.com> References: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> <1900628A-922B-48B3-9065-AFB52DE9E2CF@gmail.com> <8D72F642-3A36-4889-99FA-91233FD5C8A6@yahoo.com> <0C72A6F1-57E8-42E2-9702-5CB4C69B40D6@jd16.law.harvard.edu> <001801d0c40f$ff14c850$fd3e58f0$@icloud.com> Message-ID: <3EB6DA2C-A3B1-4A43-8079-9F1190D8CA00@gmail.com> Michal, All law schools teach essentially the same subjects in essentially the same way. It is supposed to prepare you to take the bar anywhere. I wouldn't count on transferring as you can do your best, but at the end of the day you have no control over the grading curve. as a veteran of the California bar exam myself I am not convinced it's any harder than those of other states; just more grueling. Best, Paul Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi All, > > Thank you for your advice. I forgot to mention one important consideration > in my post: namely, that I intend to practice in California, which has one > of the most challenging Bar exams in the country. Please let me know if > that changes things. > > Best, > > Michal > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek > Manners via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 4:41 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Derek Manners > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L > > I agree with a wait and see approach, nevertheless, Harvard has had a number > of transfer students that I've met that are thrilled they transferred. Just > kill your classes and leave your options open. At the end of the day, > that'll help you whether you stay or go. > > Best regards > Derek Manners > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:31 PM, James Fetter via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> I would have to agree with Cody here, at least at this point. I will >> be attending Ohio State in the fall, and although it is not a T14--my >> initial objective as well--they have been nothing but accommodating so >> far, and like Illinois, it is the flagship state school and has a >> strong alumni network in the state. If you're dead set on big law, >> then transferring might be in your best interests. Otherwise, I would >> take a wait and see approach for now. I hope this helps.All Best, >> James >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Cody J. Davis via blindlaw > wrote: >>> >>> Michal, >>> >>> I would recommend waiting until after your first semester before you even > consider transferring. >>> >>> I was placed on the waitlist of a top-tier law school, but chose to > remove myself from the waitlist and spend my first year at my second choice, > an unranked school that no one knows about. >>> >>> Now, having finished my first year, You couldn't pay me anything short of > full tuition to get me to transfer. >>> >>> My advice, worry about transfer questions in January. For now, just focus > on your first semester. >>> >>> Cody J. Davis >>> JD/MPA Candidate, 2018 >>> Campbell University school of Law >>> North Carolina State University >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw > wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear All, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As most of you know, I plan to enroll at the University of Illinois >>>> College of Law this fall. However, while Illinois Law is a great >>>> school, it is not my first choice. Consequently, if I cannot get >>>> off the UCLA, USC, Northwestern, or University of Chicago waiting >>>> list, I am seriously considering transferring after my first year if >>>> accepted to one of these schools. That being said, while most law >>>> schools welcome transfer applicants, I was advised that it may not >>>> necessarily be in my best interest to take advantage of this option >>>> despite the largely universal first-year curriculum, because of >>>> factors like class rank and minor differences across schools in >>>> their 1L programs. I was further told that it is not normal for JD >>>> students to transfer. What do you all think about this? As always, any > feedback is appreciated. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Michal >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yaho >>> o.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16. >> law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 02:41:43 2015 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 22:41:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pennsylvania OVR issues Message-ID: <5DC3A756-1EB3-4969-9BEC-21D51384EF02@gmail.com> I will be starting Widener in Harrisburg this fall. OVR has agreed to sponsor me through law school. I receive SSI and SSDI which if I am not mistaken, allows OVR to be able to provide the maximum amount . My counselor claims she can only pay the maximum undergraduate cost of tuition and that they can not assist with housing. I will have to move about 90 miles away to attend law school. It appears to me that they are comparing apples and oranges and that they should use Penn State’s law school tuition amounts instead of their undergraduate tuition. I really need some help on this. I can’t finalize my expenses until I get this issue ironed out. Does anybody know anything I can provide my counselor to resolve this discrepancy? I really appreciate any guidance on this matter. Aimee From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 22 03:06:57 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 20:06:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5178CB0E402D4B44B3FFC7C2D98455B2@Spike> You should not have to pay to litigate your case on your own. These cases are generally litigated by the DOJ or public interest agencies that take these cases. Another option is to bring this matter to the attention of your state affiliate if you haven't done so. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:45 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Been there, done that, unfortunately. Our ADA officer is very helpful, but he has no authority over the courts because of how are county is run, and seemingly very limited power over our county IT, the new director of which made a very discriminatory comment in front of an entire roomful of people present for a meeting on the subject of the network and machinery last month. In fact, the ADA rep thinks I may have to resort to litigation to get compliance from the multiple players involved, which I can neither afford in terms of money or time. In the meantime, my work is still due, so I am trying to find other ways to handle this. I will let you all know if anything improves, though! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Hi Susan, I would talk with the ADA compliance officer in the county. Make them aware of inaccessible documents. I know that section 508 applies to federal government but some counties do want to follow it. Website accessibility is now part of the ADA compliance. Check the new document on the website. www.ada.gov has a new document on state & local government guidelines. Let us know if you have success. Yasmin Reyazuddin Aging & Disability Services Montgomery County Government Department of Health & Human Services 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850 240-777-0311 (MC311) 240-777-1556 (personal) 240-777-1495 (fax) office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:13 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From steve.jacobson at visi.com Wed Jul 22 14:18:28 2015 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:18:28 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Susan, Do you have an OCR program of any type now? I got the impression you were using something since you mentioned printing and scanning in. Since the reading order and the option to read a full document are within Adobe Acrobat Reader that is on your computer, I would not expect that you will run into violation of network policies. With luck, that may take care of the problem to a large extent. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:06 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly ; Steve Jacobson Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Steve - Thanks so much for the insights on Adobe - not repeats, and very helpful. I will check to see what we are allowed as users to change - like I said, the network policy is somewhat draconian around here, and even then, does not keep things running well. I will definitely try to change what I can to see if it improves things. I have mentioned purchasing a different OCR program many times to the powers that be - unfortunately, the latest comment I got was "nothing is perfect" and that I should have my assistant read inaccessible / problematic documents to me instead, the standard code language for nothing else will be done to improve the situation. Susan -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:02 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Steve Jacobson Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Susan, I am sorry if this has already been mentioned, but some of the settings that need to be changed are in Adobe Acrobat and not within JAWS. For example, there is a setting that determines if an entire document will be made available to JAWS or whether it will be broken into pages. In general, if you tell Adobe to always make the entire document available at once to the JAWS Virtual Cursor, you probably can't take advantage of bookmarks set in the PDF which can be useful on large documents if they are used. Second, there are several reading order options within Adobe. If it is not already specified, sometimes telling Adobe to "read left to right, top to bottom" rather than to "infer reading order from Document" you can have better results. Whether these options help or not is not something I can know, though. Finally, if nothing above has worked or can work for you, you certainly don't need to be printing out the entire document and rescanning it. OCR programs like OmniPage and FineReader contain logic that will go in and get the text from PDF's and I believe they will grab text without doing OCR if it is available. Kurzweil 1000 will also create a virtual printer that will let you print out a PDF and then have it recognized by Kurzweil 1000. Finally, Nuance, the company that makes OmniPage, also has specific PDF software that is supposed to let you convert PDF's to Word for example. The version that I have used in the past that came with OmniPage did pretty well. I hope something here is helpful, but I'm sorry if you've heard it all before. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Been there, done that, unfortunately. Our ADA officer is very helpful, but he has no authority over the courts because of how are county is run, and seemingly very limited power over our county IT, the new director of which made a very discriminatory comment in front of an entire roomful of people present for a meeting on the subject of the network and machinery last month. In fact, the ADA rep thinks I may have to resort to litigation to get compliance from the multiple players involved, which I can neither afford in terms of money or time. In the meantime, my work is still due, so I am trying to find other ways to handle this. I will let you all know if anything improves, though! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Hi Susan, I would talk with the ADA compliance officer in the county. Make them aware of inaccessible documents. I know that section 508 applies to federal government but some counties do want to follow it. Website accessibility is now part of the ADA compliance. Check the new document on the website. www.ada.gov has a new document on state & local government guidelines. Let us know if you have success. Yasmin Reyazuddin Aging & Disability Services Montgomery County Government Department of Health & Human Services 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850 240-777-0311 (MC311) 240-777-1556 (personal) 240-777-1495 (fax) office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:13 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org) Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate to find some workable answers. I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals. The court websites in our county are of varying levels of accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different methods and standards. When it comes to transcripts filed in the court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the COA in the manner they see fit. This will generally be in a PDF format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs available to them through the state office of the courts to generate written documents from stenographic notes. These programs contain bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is embedded in the PDF. This causes everything from tiny blocks of the page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings within JAWS for a continuous reading experience. So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe. Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment. I do not have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network. All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am missing? I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no avail, which may also be a function of our network environment. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40mo ntgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi. com From njaskins at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 15:22:44 2015 From: njaskins at gmail.com (Nicole Askins) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 11:22:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Susan, this may echo some of the previous comments on the subject but, Adobe pro will address your issue. I had the same issue when I worked for the Innovation Center last spring. If that is not an option there are other PDF conversion softwares that may be just as useful for you. I use a software on my mobile device that is simply named PDF reader. Perhaps, , through windows 8 and the App Store this could be made available on your desktop. They are fairly reasonably priced and work well with screen reading software Another reader that I would recommend would be easy reader also available on my mobile device but perhaps this could be useful to you. Hope this helps! From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jul 22 15:28:23 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 15:28:23 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will try those on my iPad - it tends to be my alternate plan whenever our office programs / equipment fall short, even though it is an old version (2) that I bought for my own personal use. We have tried to get the office to get me a license for Adobe Pro, but we are repeatedly told that there is only one license per location, and it has to be for everyone's benefit, meaning its use is for the clerical staff to prepare our electronic disclosure for our (inaccessible) electronic file program. But, I am hoping all of the votes for it on the list will add to the argument this time - thanks for the suggestions! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Askins via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 8:23 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Nicole Askins Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet Hi Susan, this may echo some of the previous comments on the subject but, Adobe pro will address your issue. I had the same issue when I worked for the Innovation Center last spring. If that is not an option there are other PDF conversion softwares that may be just as useful for you. I use a software on my mobile device that is simply named PDF reader. Perhaps, , through windows 8 and the App Store this could be made available on your desktop. They are fairly reasonably priced and work well with screen reading software Another reader that I would recommend would be easy reader also available on my mobile device but perhaps this could be useful to you. Hope this helps! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From glnorman15 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 22 16:06:45 2015 From: glnorman15 at hotmail.com (GL Norman) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:06:45 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Lyceum to Offer Contemplative Law. Group/Mindfulness Group Attempting to Broker Diverse Leaders in Civ. Rights, Disab., or Animals Together Message-ID: Mid-Atlantic Lyceum offering a mindfulness group/contemplative lawyer group for Baltimore – option among its brands -- perhaps to occur monthly. Sessions will occur likely in downtown Baltimore City. If interested, provide your note of interest to G. Norman at (410) 241-6745 either via text-based message or via e-mail. In continued goal of brokering diverse lawyer leaders together in the areas of disability issues, or animal issues, or civil rights, or some conmbination thereof, while providing a tool for stress management, we will begin with introductions and a 20-minute meditation. We will have a facillitated discussion held in circle dialogue format. From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Wed Jul 22 18:07:51 2015 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:07:51 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Transferring after 1L References: <001401d0c3f2$ec998390$c5cc8ab0$@icloud.com> <1900628A-922B-48B3-9065-AFB52DE9E2CF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20BF86E90A6242AB9CEF02CAF075D32F@victory2> I tell college-bound students that the college that challenges one and makes one the very best in one's chosen profession may not necessarily be a big noise maker! For example, and perhaps because i don't live in California, I never heard of Occidental College until President Obama got elected into office. I can put Yale on my resume and be given a BIG POST appointment in Washington, DC based on the name of the college. However, what if I can't really do the job? I can understand why the choice of a college may be of particular importance to a law student especially since lawyers are a nickel for a dozen! But what mark do I want to set as a lawyer? What kind of lawyer am I aiming to be? Vexing questions no doubt, but I believe these ultimately determine how well I do in the struggle to satisfy the expectations of my profession. If UIU is giving you good quality legal education, fly its flag to the high heavens and give it a chance to impact you professionally. I'm doing this for Indiana University Bloomington and I love it! Now, I almost didn't like the school that much when I was there; as I look back now, this was due partly to the extreme humidity in Bloomington in summer, and the winter that never seemed to end! But I did meet professors who challenged my instincts and taught me how to THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX. Their strategy is still working for me and I'm using it to impact lives in my quiet corner. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jul 23 16:10:55 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:10:55 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] The ADA and Claiming Disability, Disability Blog, July 2 2015 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some on this list may find this of interest. Link: https://usodep.blogs.govdelivery.com/2015/07/02/the-ada-and-claiming-disability/ Text: The ADA and Claiming Disability By Guest Blogger Andrew J. Imparato, Executive Director, Association of University Centers on Disabilities This month, as we reflect on 25 years of implementation of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), it is easy to focus on the letter of the law and miss the larger message of this historic legislation. For me, the greatest value of the ADA has been its role in framing disability as a natural part of the human experience and branding discrimination against children and adults with disabilities as something that is unlawful, unnatural and unnecessary. In July of 1990, I was a brand-new lawyer trying to cope with the early stages of bipolar disorder, a condition that has stayed with me to this day. Earlier that year, as a newlywed and a visiting student at Harvard Law School, I had experienced my first serious episode of depression. Seemingly overnight, I went from being a confident, outspoken law student to an insecure, scared, unmotivated shell of my former self. With help from my wife, Betsy, and others, I made it through law school and launched a career in public interest law. I soon found my calling as a disability advocate and I learned to think of my disability as a positive differentiator; it gave me added credibility and gravitas in my chosen profession. I was proud to be a person with a psychiatric disability who was "out" as a professional and I felt welcomed by my colleagues with a variety of disabilities in Massachusetts and beyond. The ADA made it easier for me to be open about my disability when I applied to work for Senator Tom Harkin on the U.S. Senate Subcommittee on Disability Policy, and my mood disorder is something that has informed and motivated my work since I came to Washington for that job in 1993. My experience with disability made me better as an attorney adviser at the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; as the general counsel and director of policy at the National Council on Disability; as the president and chief executive officer of the American Association of People with Disabilities; as the disability policy director for the U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; and in my current role as the executive director of the Association of University Centers on Disabilities. In my more than two decades as a disability advocate at the national level, I have had the opportunity to connect with many people who have personal experience with depression, bipolar disorder and other non-apparent disabilities. It is sad to me that so many professionals, whom I have met in my travels, including those who work in the disability field, still do not feel comfortable being "out" with their disabilities at work. Even 25 years after the ADA, we still live in a society that too often equates "disability" with "inability" or "less than." We still define "disability" for purposes of federal benefits as an inability to "engage in substantial gainful activity." In 2008, bipartisan champions in Congress had to amend the ADA to overturn Supreme Court decisions that had sought to restrict the law's protections to people with severe disabilities that cannot be controlled or managed with medication or other mitigating measures. Seemingly uncomfortable with the idea that people who have no significant impairment nonetheless experience discrimination at work based on the fears, myths and stereotypes that others associate with their conditions, the Supreme Court narrowed who could claim to have a "disability" for purposes of the ADA. Disregarding legislative history and the expertise of the federal agencies charged with enforcing the ADA, large majorities on the Supreme Court made it very difficult for people like me with chronic health conditions to use the ADA to challenge discrimination because our skills and accomplishments were being used against us on the issue of whether we were disabled enough to be covered by the law in the first place. As we look forward to the second quarter century of enforcement, my wish is that more people will claim their disabilities at work and in school and that more people with and without disabilities will come to embrace the idea that disability is a natural, beautiful and essential aspect of the human experience. Rather than buying into the larger societal narrative that disabilities are inherently limiting, we have an opportunity to recognize that personal experience with disability can lead to greater personal strength, creative problem-solving, and a stronger connection to other populations who face discrimination at work, at school and in the community. The inclusive definition of disability in the ADA, restored in 2008's ADA Amendments Act, prohibits discrimination against people with depression, anxiety, diabetes, epilepsy, cancer, dyslexia, Asperger syndrome, attention deficit disorder and heart disease. If everyone with these conditions and other non-visible disabilities were open about their conditions at work, the stigmas associated with many of these conditions would be diminished more quickly than they will be if people continue to keep their disabilities to themselves. So, as we celebrate 25 years of the ADA, I encourage my colleagues with non-apparent disabilities to claim your disabilities and be "out at work" - and in general. Be "out" as a proud member of a beautifully diverse community. Define your disability as an asset, and do not let others define your disability for you. When we come together collectively around our disability identities, our community will be able to accelerate progress toward the ultimate vision of the ADA: equality of opportunity, full participation, self-determination and economic self-sufficiency. About the Guest Blogger Andrew Imparato has served as executive director of the Association of University Centers on Disabilities (AUCD) since September, 2013. As a disability rights lawyer and policy professional with more than two decades of experience in government and advocacy roles, Imparato has worked with bipartisan policymakers to advance disability policy at the national level in the areas of civil rights, workforce development and disability benefits. Prior to coming to AUCD, he was senior counsel and disability policy director for Senator Tom Harkin on the U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions. Before that, he spent 11 years as president and CEO of the American Association of People with Disabilities, a national membership organization working to grow the political and economic power of the disability community. Imparato's perspective is informed by his personal experience with bipolar disorder. Since joining AUCD, a national network of over 100 university-based programs that conduct research, training and advocacy to improve the quality of life of children and adults with disabilities, Imparato has helped the organization broaden the scope of its advocacy and expand its leadership capacity. Imparato is currently serving on two bipartisan panels developing recommendations for reform of the Social Security Disability Insurance program and has spearheaded a national "Six by '15" campaign designed to leverage this year's milestone anniversaries of the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act to focus public attention on the areas where the disability community wants to see more progress. This campaign has been endorsed by 160 disability organizations and the website is www.sixbyfifteen.org. Imparato's work has been recognized by the Secretaries of Health and Human Services and Transportation, the U.S. Junior Chamber of Commerce, the National Council on Independent Living, the National Association of the Deaf, and the Osteogenesis Imperfecta Foundation. He has testified nine times before Committees of the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives and has been interviewed on a wide range of disability issues by national television, radio and print media. He cultivates grassroots activism on social media and is known for seeking out and mentoring emerging leaders with disabilities. He co-authored articles that have been published in the Stanford Law and Policy Review and the Milbank Quarterly and wrote a chapter on the Supreme Court's disability rulings in The Rehnquist Court: Judicial Activism on the Right (Hill & Wang 2003). He has been an adviser on accessibility, recruiting and corporate social responsibility to Verizon, AT&T, Time Warner, Walmart and other leading businesses. Imparato graduated summa cum laude from Yale College and with distinction from Stanford Law School. He lives in Baltimore with his wife, historian Elizabeth Nix, Ph.D., and their 16 year-old son Nicholas. Their older son, Gareth, is a writer in Los Angeles. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Jul 23 19:36:02 2015 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross A. Doerr) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:36:02 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security Disability Benefits face cuts in 2016 N.Y. Times Message-ID: <003401d0c57e$cf92cd00$6eb86700$@roadrunner.com> I have copied and pasted the text of a N.Y. Times article about the SSDI trust fund running low in 2016. I hpe I did not miss anything. IF this didn't come through very well to the list, it is on line via a simple google search. I see this topic come up every election season. What I find interesting this time is that they are predicting a 19% drop in benefits if the issue is not addressed in a substantive way, and as usual, it is the Democrats v. Republicans. Much of this is familiar - do something more about the fraud in the SSDI system and do something more to help recipients go back to work. If they'd just make sure we could get jobs that pay a living wage we wouldn't need. never mind. So, as I read the article below, Those on SSDI will, if nothing is done, get a 19% reduction in benefits. Will employees at the SSA get a 19% reduction in pay to ensure that the savings to the program is maximized? This concludes my rant and cheap shots for the day. Ross *** Social Security Disability Benefits Face Cuts in 2016, Trustees Say - The New York Times July 22, 2015 By ROBERT PEAR WASHINGTON - Eleven million people face a deep, abrupt cut in disability insurance benefits in late 2016 if Congress fails to replenish Social Security's disability trust fund, which is running out of money, the Obama administration said Wednesday. Officials expressed concern about the program as they issued their annual report on the financial condition of Medicare and Social Security, which together account for about 40 percent of all federal spending. The trustees of Social Security, including three cabinet secretaries, said the disability trust fund would be depleted in the last quarter of 2016. After that, they said, benefits would automatically be cut by 19 percent because revenues, largely from payroll taxes, would be sufficient to cover only 81 percent of scheduled benefit payments. The report sets up a fight between President Obama and Republicans in Congress. Mr. Obama wants to replenish the disability trust fund by shifting some payroll tax revenues from Social Security's retirement trust fund. Republicans, however, want more significant changes to improve the program's finances. These changes could include reductions in disability benefits, restrictions on eligibility, new measures to combat fraud or new strategies to help people return to work. In January, Republicans adopted a new rule in the House that could block a direct reallocation of money at the expense of the trust fund that provides benefits for retirees. The White House acknowledged the financial problems of the disability program in a separate report issued last week by Jeffrey D. Zients, director of the National Economic Council, and Shaun Donovan, the president's budget director. The trustees, in their report, said that the squeeze on the disability program was "but the first manifestation of larger financial imbalances facing Social Security as a whole, as well as Medicare." They predicted that Medicare's hospital insurance trust fund would be exhausted in 2030, the same as projected last year. While trustees say the Social Security retirement fund will remain solvent through 2035, the disability insurance fund is expected to run out of money late next year. Combined fund Retirement fund Disability Insurance fund Years 40 30 20 10 '95 '05 '95 '05 '95 '05 '15 '15 '15 Year of projection Combined fund 30 years 20 10 '95 '05 '15 Year of projection Retirement fund 40 years 30 20 10 '95 '05 '15 Year of projection Disability Insurance fund 30 years 20 10 '95 '05 '15 Year of projection Sources: Social Security Administration, Congressional Research Service JULY 22, 2015 By Kim Soffen And they said that the reserves of Social Security's retirement and disability trust funds, taken in combination, would be depleted in 2034, one year later than projected in 2014. After that, the report said, income to the trust funds would still allow Social Security to pay about three-fourths of scheduled benefits for 50 years. Though often considered together, the trust funds for retirees and disabled workers are "distinct legal entities that operate independently," the trustees said. Officials cannot divert money from one to the other unless Congress explicitly authorizes such a shift, as it has done several times in the past. The most recent reallocation of the Social Security payroll tax occurred in the mid-1990s, when Congress bolstered the disability trust fund, according to the Congressional Research Service. But money has sometimes been shifted in the other direction. Disability insurance is a fundamental part of Social Security. Most beneficiaries were earning middle incomes, averaging a little more than $42,000 a year, when they became disabled, officials said. Benefits average $14,000 a year. The shortage of money in the disability trust fund should not be a surprise, experts said. It reflects demographic factors like the aging of baby boomers into their 50s and 60s and the increase in the number of women in the labor force, which makes them eligible for disability insurance, they said. Another factor, they said, is improper payments to some people who are not disabled. Treasury Secretary Jacob J. Lew, the manager of the two trust funds, said the reallocation of revenue proposed by Mr. Obama was "a common sense solution to improve the solvency" of the disability fund. The trustees' report said that "some reallocation of resources between the two trust funds" was necessary but not sufficient. Congress, they said, should take other, unspecified steps to address the long-term financial problems of the trust funds. Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, said that "reshuffling funds," as proposed by Mr. Obama, was no solution to the serious fiscal problems documented in the report. Social Security officials said they did not expect to provide a cost-of-living adjustment to Social Security beneficiaries in 2016, although that could change, depending on changes in consumer prices over the next few months. The report projects a big increase in Medicare premiums for about 30 percent of the 55 million people who have health insurance through the program because of complex rules meant to protect the other 70 percent. The standard premium for the unprotected group is expected to rise to $159.30 a month in 2016, from the current level of $104.90. For the highest-income beneficiaries, the report shows premiums rising above $500 a month in 2016, from $335 this year. The report assumes that 70 percent of beneficiaries will be "held harmless." Most people on Medicare have premiums deducted from their monthly Social Security checks. Under federal law, their premiums cannot rise more than the dollar amount of the cost-of-living increase in their Social Security checks. So if there is no inflation adjustment in Social Security, their Medicare premiums would not increase. But Medicare will still need more money to pay doctors, and the government could increase premiums for the 30 percent of beneficiaries who do not have protection. Administration officials said they had policy options to avoid huge increases and would decide on 2016 premiums in October of this year. Sylvia Mathews Burwell, the secretary of health and human services, said the Affordable Care Act had extended the life of Medicare's hospital insurance trust fund by 13 years. The law reduced the growth of Medicare payments to many health care providers. Under prior law, officials estimated that the trust fund would be depleted in 2017. Medicare spent an average of $12,430 per beneficiary last year, up 2 percent from 2013, the report said. The total includes $4,900 for hospitals and other institutions, $5,400 for doctors and other outpatient services, and $2,100 for prescription drugs. A version of this article appears in print on July 23, 2015, on page A15 of the New York edition with the headline: Disability Benefits Face Cuts in '16, Trustees Say. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 4577 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 174 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 23 22:57:58 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:57:58 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security Disability Benefits face cuts in 2016N.Y. Times In-Reply-To: <003401d0c57e$cf92cd00$6eb86700$@roadrunner.com> References: <003401d0c57e$cf92cd00$6eb86700$@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <05E0F045776B4FF4B8F29BE1ABADFC87@Spike> As one who represents claimants in attempting to procure benefits perhaps they would save needed money if they granted claims in a timely manner and had realistic views of the pain and suffering that many applicants go through in waiting years to get a favorable award. I have one claimant who is still waiting after 7 years. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Ross A. Doerr via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:36 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Ross A. Doerr Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security Disability Benefits face cuts in 2016N.Y. Times I have copied and pasted the text of a N.Y. Times article about the SSDI trust fund running low in 2016. I hpe I did not miss anything. IF this didn't come through very well to the list, it is on line via a simple google search. I see this topic come up every election season. What I find interesting this time is that they are predicting a 19% drop in benefits if the issue is not addressed in a substantive way, and as usual, it is the Democrats v. Republicans. Much of this is familiar - do something more about the fraud in the SSDI system and do something more to help recipients go back to work. If they'd just make sure we could get jobs that pay a living wage we wouldn't need. never mind. So, as I read the article below, Those on SSDI will, if nothing is done, get a 19% reduction in benefits. Will employees at the SSA get a 19% reduction in pay to ensure that the savings to the program is maximized? This concludes my rant and cheap shots for the day. Ross *** Social Security Disability Benefits Face Cuts in 2016, Trustees Say - The New York Times July 22, 2015 By ROBERT PEAR WASHINGTON - Eleven million people face a deep, abrupt cut in disability insurance benefits in late 2016 if Congress fails to replenish Social Security's disability trust fund, which is running out of money, the Obama administration said Wednesday. Officials expressed concern about the program as they issued their annual report on the financial condition of Medicare and Social Security, which together account for about 40 percent of all federal spending. The trustees of Social Security, including three cabinet secretaries, said the disability trust fund would be depleted in the last quarter of 2016. After that, they said, benefits would automatically be cut by 19 percent because revenues, largely from payroll taxes, would be sufficient to cover only 81 percent of scheduled benefit payments. The report sets up a fight between President Obama and Republicans in Congress. Mr. Obama wants to replenish the disability trust fund by shifting some payroll tax revenues from Social Security's retirement trust fund. Republicans, however, want more significant changes to improve the program's finances. These changes could include reductions in disability benefits, restrictions on eligibility, new measures to combat fraud or new strategies to help people return to work. In January, Republicans adopted a new rule in the House that could block a direct reallocation of money at the expense of the trust fund that provides benefits for retirees. The White House acknowledged the financial problems of the disability program in a separate report issued last week by Jeffrey D. Zients, director of the National Economic Council, and Shaun Donovan, the president's budget director. The trustees, in their report, said that the squeeze on the disability program was "but the first manifestation of larger financial imbalances facing Social Security as a whole, as well as Medicare." They predicted that Medicare's hospital insurance trust fund would be exhausted in 2030, the same as projected last year. While trustees say the Social Security retirement fund will remain solvent through 2035, the disability insurance fund is expected to run out of money late next year. Combined fund Retirement fund Disability Insurance fund Years 40 30 20 10 '95 '05 '95 '05 '95 '05 '15 '15 '15 Year of projection Combined fund 30 years 20 10 '95 '05 '15 Year of projection Retirement fund 40 years 30 20 10 '95 '05 '15 Year of projection Disability Insurance fund 30 years 20 10 '95 '05 '15 Year of projection Sources: Social Security Administration, Congressional Research Service JULY 22, 2015 By Kim Soffen And they said that the reserves of Social Security's retirement and disability trust funds, taken in combination, would be depleted in 2034, one year later than projected in 2014. After that, the report said, income to the trust funds would still allow Social Security to pay about three-fourths of scheduled benefits for 50 years. Though often considered together, the trust funds for retirees and disabled workers are "distinct legal entities that operate independently," the trustees said. Officials cannot divert money from one to the other unless Congress explicitly authorizes such a shift, as it has done several times in the past. The most recent reallocation of the Social Security payroll tax occurred in the mid-1990s, when Congress bolstered the disability trust fund, according to the Congressional Research Service. But money has sometimes been shifted in the other direction. Disability insurance is a fundamental part of Social Security. Most beneficiaries were earning middle incomes, averaging a little more than $42,000 a year, when they became disabled, officials said. Benefits average $14,000 a year. The shortage of money in the disability trust fund should not be a surprise, experts said. It reflects demographic factors like the aging of baby boomers into their 50s and 60s and the increase in the number of women in the labor force, which makes them eligible for disability insurance, they said. Another factor, they said, is improper payments to some people who are not disabled. Treasury Secretary Jacob J. Lew, the manager of the two trust funds, said the reallocation of revenue proposed by Mr. Obama was "a common sense solution to improve the solvency" of the disability fund. The trustees' report said that "some reallocation of resources between the two trust funds" was necessary but not sufficient. Congress, they said, should take other, unspecified steps to address the long-term financial problems of the trust funds. Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, said that "reshuffling funds," as proposed by Mr. Obama, was no solution to the serious fiscal problems documented in the report. Social Security officials said they did not expect to provide a cost-of-living adjustment to Social Security beneficiaries in 2016, although that could change, depending on changes in consumer prices over the next few months. The report projects a big increase in Medicare premiums for about 30 percent of the 55 million people who have health insurance through the program because of complex rules meant to protect the other 70 percent. The standard premium for the unprotected group is expected to rise to $159.30 a month in 2016, from the current level of $104.90. For the highest-income beneficiaries, the report shows premiums rising above $500 a month in 2016, from $335 this year. The report assumes that 70 percent of beneficiaries will be "held harmless." Most people on Medicare have premiums deducted from their monthly Social Security checks. Under federal law, their premiums cannot rise more than the dollar amount of the cost-of-living increase in their Social Security checks. So if there is no inflation adjustment in Social Security, their Medicare premiums would not increase. But Medicare will still need more money to pay doctors, and the government could increase premiums for the 30 percent of beneficiaries who do not have protection. Administration officials said they had policy options to avoid huge increases and would decide on 2016 premiums in October of this year. Sylvia Mathews Burwell, the secretary of health and human services, said the Affordable Care Act had extended the life of Medicare's hospital insurance trust fund by 13 years. The law reduced the growth of Medicare payments to many health care providers. Under prior law, officials estimated that the trust fund would be depleted in 2017. Medicare spent an average of $12,430 per beneficiary last year, up 2 percent from 2013, the report said. The total includes $4,900 for hospitals and other institutions, $5,400 for doctors and other outpatient services, and $2,100 for prescription drugs. A version of this article appears in print on July 23, 2015, on page A15 of the New York edition with the headline: Disability Benefits Face Cuts in '16, Trustees Say. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From njaskins at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 23:06:08 2015 From: njaskins at gmail.com (Nicole Askins) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:06:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security Disability Benefits face cuts in 2016N.Y. Times In-Reply-To: <05E0F045776B4FF4B8F29BE1ABADFC87@Spike> References: <003401d0c57e$cf92cd00$6eb86700$@roadrunner.com> <05E0F045776B4FF4B8F29BE1ABADFC87@Spike> Message-ID: I understand the economy is in trouble, I get it!! But, this is a much larger issue. In that, like someone else said assuring that individuals with disabilities have access to jobs that would sustain us. Or prevention waste through red tape and too much administration. Perhaps then, cost could be cut. But if we continue to do governmental business as usual of course we will run out of money because it just does not make sense the way that the Social Security Administration runs. They respond to lawsuits better than they respond to the actual needs of those they are employed to serve. How about instead of reducing benefits by 19 percent you reduce administrative waste customer fraud and other abuse by 19 percent then see if it makes a difference. On Jul 23, 2015 6:58 PM, "Charles Krugman via blindlaw" wrote: > As one who represents claimants in attempting to procure benefits perhaps > they would save needed money if they granted claims in a timely manner and > had realistic views of the pain and suffering that many applicants go > through in waiting years to get a favorable award. I have one claimant who > is still waiting after 7 years. > Chuck > > -----Original Message----- From: Ross A. Doerr via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:36 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Ross A. Doerr > Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security Disability Benefits face cuts in > 2016N.Y. Times > > I have copied and pasted the text of a N.Y. Times article about the SSDI > trust fund running low in 2016. I hpe I did not miss anything. > > IF this didn't come through very well to the list, it is on line via a > simple google search. > > I see this topic come up every election season. What I find interesting > this > time is that they are predicting a 19% drop in benefits if the issue is not > addressed in a substantive way, and as usual, it is the Democrats v. > Republicans. > > Much of this is familiar - do something more about the fraud in the SSDI > system and do something more to help recipients go back to work. > > If they'd just make sure we could get jobs that pay a living wage we > wouldn't need. never mind. > > So, as I read the article below, Those on SSDI will, if nothing is done, > get a 19% reduction in benefits. Will employees at the SSA get a 19% > reduction in pay to ensure that the savings to the program is maximized? > > This concludes my rant and cheap shots for the day. > > Ross > > > > *** > > Social Security Disability Benefits Face Cuts in 2016, Trustees Say - The > New York Times > > July 22, 2015 > > By ROBERT PEAR > > > > WASHINGTON - Eleven million people face a deep, abrupt cut in disability > insurance benefits in late 2016 if Congress fails to replenish Social > Security's disability trust fund, which is running out of money, the Obama > administration said Wednesday. > > Officials expressed concern about the program as they issued their annual > report on the financial condition of Medicare and Social Security, which > together account for about 40 percent of all federal spending. > > The trustees of Social Security, including three cabinet secretaries, said > the disability trust fund would be depleted in the last quarter of 2016. > After that, they said, benefits would automatically be cut by 19 percent > because revenues, largely from payroll taxes, would be sufficient to cover > only 81 percent of scheduled benefit payments. > > The report sets up a fight between President Obama and Republicans in > Congress. Mr. Obama wants to replenish the disability trust fund by > shifting > some payroll tax revenues from Social Security's retirement trust fund. > > Republicans, however, want more significant changes to improve the > program's > finances. These changes could include reductions in disability benefits, > restrictions on eligibility, new measures to combat fraud or new strategies > to help people return to work. In January, Republicans adopted a new rule > in > the House that could block a direct reallocation of money at the expense of > the trust fund that provides benefits for retirees. > > The White House acknowledged the financial problems of the disability > program in a separate report issued last week by Jeffrey D. Zients, > director > of the National Economic Council, and Shaun Donovan, the president's budget > director. > > The trustees, in their report, said that the squeeze on the disability > program was "but the first manifestation of larger financial imbalances > facing Social Security as a whole, as well as Medicare." > > They predicted that Medicare's hospital insurance trust fund would be > exhausted in 2030, the same as projected last year. > > While trustees say the Social Security retirement fund will remain solvent > through 2035, the disability insurance fund is expected to run out of money > late next year. > > > > Combined fund > > Retirement fund > > Disability Insurance fund > > Years > > 40 > > 30 > > 20 > > 10 > > '95 > > '05 > > '95 > > '05 > > '95 > > '05 > > '15 > > '15 > > '15 > > Year of projection > > > > Combined fund > > 30 years > > 20 > > 10 > > '95 > > '05 > > '15 > > Year of projection > > Retirement fund > > 40 years > > 30 > > 20 > > 10 > > '95 > > '05 > > '15 > > Year of projection > > Disability Insurance fund > > 30 years > > 20 > > 10 > > '95 > > '05 > > '15 > > Year of projection > > Sources: Social Security Administration, Congressional Research Service > > JULY 22, 2015 > > By Kim Soffen > > And they said that the reserves of Social Security's retirement and > disability trust funds, taken in combination, would be depleted in 2034, > one > year later than projected in 2014. After that, the report said, income to > the trust funds would still allow Social Security to pay about > three-fourths > of scheduled benefits for 50 years. > > Though often considered together, the trust funds for retirees and disabled > workers are "distinct legal entities that operate independently," the > trustees said. Officials cannot divert money from one to the other unless > Congress explicitly authorizes such a shift, as it has done several times > in > the past. > > The most recent reallocation of the Social Security payroll tax occurred in > the mid-1990s, when Congress bolstered the disability trust fund, according > to the Congressional Research Service. But money has sometimes been shifted > in the other direction. > > Disability insurance is a fundamental part of Social Security. Most > beneficiaries were earning middle incomes, averaging a little more than > $42,000 a year, when they became disabled, officials said. Benefits average > $14,000 a year. > > The shortage of money in the disability trust fund should not be a > surprise, > experts said. It reflects demographic factors like the aging of baby > boomers > into their 50s and 60s and the increase in the number of women in the labor > force, which makes them eligible for disability insurance, they said. > Another factor, they said, is improper payments to some people who are not > disabled. > > Treasury Secretary Jacob J. Lew, the manager of the two trust funds, said > the reallocation of revenue proposed by Mr. Obama was "a common sense > solution to improve the solvency" of the disability fund. > > The trustees' report said that "some reallocation of resources between the > two trust funds" was necessary but not sufficient. Congress, they said, > should take other, unspecified steps to address the long-term financial > problems of the trust funds. > > Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, the chairman of the Senate > Finance Committee, said that "reshuffling funds," as proposed by Mr. Obama, > was no solution to the serious fiscal problems documented in the report. > > Social Security officials said they did not expect to provide a > cost-of-living adjustment to Social Security beneficiaries in 2016, > although > that could change, depending on changes in consumer prices over the next > few > months. > > The report projects a big increase in Medicare premiums for about 30 > percent > of the 55 million people who have health insurance through the program > because of complex rules meant to protect the other 70 percent. The > standard > premium for the unprotected group is expected to rise to $159.30 a month in > 2016, from the current level of $104.90. For the highest-income > beneficiaries, the report shows premiums rising above $500 a month in 2016, > from $335 this year. > > The report assumes that 70 percent of beneficiaries will be "held > harmless." > Most people on Medicare have premiums deducted from their monthly Social > Security checks. Under federal law, their premiums cannot rise more than > the > dollar amount of the cost-of-living increase in their Social Security > checks. So if there is no inflation adjustment in Social Security, their > Medicare premiums would not increase. > > But Medicare will still need more money to pay doctors, and the government > could increase premiums for the 30 percent of beneficiaries who do not have > protection. Administration officials said they had policy options to avoid > huge increases and would decide on 2016 premiums in October of this year. > > Sylvia Mathews Burwell, the secretary of health and human services, said > the > Affordable Care Act had extended the life of Medicare's hospital insurance > trust fund by 13 years. The law reduced the growth of Medicare payments to > many health care providers. Under prior law, officials estimated that the > trust fund would be depleted in 2017. > > Medicare spent an average of $12,430 per beneficiary last year, up 2 > percent > from 2013, the report said. The total includes $4,900 for hospitals and > other institutions, $5,400 for doctors and other outpatient services, and > $2,100 for prescription drugs. > > > > A version of this article appears in print on July 23, 2015, on page A15 of > the New York edition with the headline: Disability Benefits Face Cuts in > '16, Trustees Say. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com > From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Thu Jul 23 23:38:35 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:38:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security Disability Benefits face cuts in 2016N.Y. Times In-Reply-To: References: <003401d0c57e$cf92cd00$6eb86700$@roadrunner.com> <05E0F045776B4FF4B8F29BE1ABADFC87@Spike> Message-ID: <000701d0c5a0$b2ef70a0$18ce51e0$@icloud.com> Hi All, I like the NFB proposal to reform SSDI. The problem with SSDI is that unlike SSI, it is an all or nothing program. That is, if your income goes over the limit, you automatically lose all your benefits. Consequently, there is often no insentive for SSDI recipients to work at their full potential because while their earnings may be higher, their net income is often lower as a result of loss of benefits. Best, Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Askins via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:06 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List ; Charles Krugman Cc: Nicole Askins Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Social Security Disability Benefits face cuts in 2016N.Y. Times I understand the economy is in trouble, I get it!! But, this is a much larger issue. In that, like someone else said assuring that individuals with disabilities have access to jobs that would sustain us. Or prevention waste through red tape and too much administration. Perhaps then, cost could be cut. But if we continue to do governmental business as usual of course we will run out of money because it just does not make sense the way that the Social Security Administration runs. They respond to lawsuits better than they respond to the actual needs of those they are employed to serve. How about instead of reducing benefits by 19 percent you reduce administrative waste customer fraud and other abuse by 19 percent then see if it makes a difference. On Jul 23, 2015 6:58 PM, "Charles Krugman via blindlaw" wrote: > As one who represents claimants in attempting to procure benefits > perhaps they would save needed money if they granted claims in a > timely manner and had realistic views of the pain and suffering that > many applicants go through in waiting years to get a favorable award. > I have one claimant who is still waiting after 7 years. > Chuck > > -----Original Message----- From: Ross A. Doerr via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:36 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Ross A. Doerr > Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security Disability Benefits face cuts in > 2016N.Y. Times > > I have copied and pasted the text of a N.Y. Times article about the > SSDI trust fund running low in 2016. I hpe I did not miss anything. > > IF this didn't come through very well to the list, it is on line via a > simple google search. > > I see this topic come up every election season. What I find > interesting this time is that they are predicting a 19% drop in > benefits if the issue is not addressed in a substantive way, and as > usual, it is the Democrats v. > Republicans. > > Much of this is familiar - do something more about the fraud in the > SSDI system and do something more to help recipients go back to work. > > If they'd just make sure we could get jobs that pay a living wage we > wouldn't need. never mind. > > So, as I read the article below, Those on SSDI will, if nothing is > done, get a 19% reduction in benefits. Will employees at the SSA get a > 19% reduction in pay to ensure that the savings to the program is maximized? > > This concludes my rant and cheap shots for the day. > > Ross > > > > *** > > Social Security Disability Benefits Face Cuts in 2016, Trustees Say - > The New York Times > > July 22, 2015 > > By ROBERT PEAR > > > > WASHINGTON - Eleven million people face a deep, abrupt cut in > disability insurance benefits in late 2016 if Congress fails to > replenish Social Security's disability trust fund, which is running > out of money, the Obama administration said Wednesday. > > Officials expressed concern about the program as they issued their > annual report on the financial condition of Medicare and Social > Security, which together account for about 40 percent of all federal spending. > > The trustees of Social Security, including three cabinet secretaries, > said the disability trust fund would be depleted in the last quarter of 2016. > After that, they said, benefits would automatically be cut by 19 > percent because revenues, largely from payroll taxes, would be > sufficient to cover only 81 percent of scheduled benefit payments. > > The report sets up a fight between President Obama and Republicans in > Congress. Mr. Obama wants to replenish the disability trust fund by > shifting some payroll tax revenues from Social Security's retirement > trust fund. > > Republicans, however, want more significant changes to improve the > program's finances. These changes could include reductions in > disability benefits, restrictions on eligibility, new measures to > combat fraud or new strategies to help people return to work. In > January, Republicans adopted a new rule in the House that could block > a direct reallocation of money at the expense of the trust fund that > provides benefits for retirees. > > The White House acknowledged the financial problems of the disability > program in a separate report issued last week by Jeffrey D. Zients, > director of the National Economic Council, and Shaun Donovan, the > president's budget director. > > The trustees, in their report, said that the squeeze on the disability > program was "but the first manifestation of larger financial > imbalances facing Social Security as a whole, as well as Medicare." > > They predicted that Medicare's hospital insurance trust fund would be > exhausted in 2030, the same as projected last year. > > While trustees say the Social Security retirement fund will remain > solvent through 2035, the disability insurance fund is expected to run > out of money late next year. > > > > Combined fund > > Retirement fund > > Disability Insurance fund > > Years > > 40 > > 30 > > 20 > > 10 > > '95 > > '05 > > '95 > > '05 > > '95 > > '05 > > '15 > > '15 > > '15 > > Year of projection > > > > Combined fund > > 30 years > > 20 > > 10 > > '95 > > '05 > > '15 > > Year of projection > > Retirement fund > > 40 years > > 30 > > 20 > > 10 > > '95 > > '05 > > '15 > > Year of projection > > Disability Insurance fund > > 30 years > > 20 > > 10 > > '95 > > '05 > > '15 > > Year of projection > > Sources: Social Security Administration, Congressional Research > Service > > JULY 22, 2015 > > By Kim Soffen > > And they said that the reserves of Social Security's retirement and > disability trust funds, taken in combination, would be depleted in > 2034, one year later than projected in 2014. After that, the report > said, income to the trust funds would still allow Social Security to > pay about three-fourths of scheduled benefits for 50 years. > > Though often considered together, the trust funds for retirees and > disabled workers are "distinct legal entities that operate > independently," the trustees said. Officials cannot divert money from > one to the other unless Congress explicitly authorizes such a shift, > as it has done several times in the past. > > The most recent reallocation of the Social Security payroll tax > occurred in the mid-1990s, when Congress bolstered the disability > trust fund, according to the Congressional Research Service. But money > has sometimes been shifted in the other direction. > > Disability insurance is a fundamental part of Social Security. Most > beneficiaries were earning middle incomes, averaging a little more > than > $42,000 a year, when they became disabled, officials said. Benefits > average > $14,000 a year. > > The shortage of money in the disability trust fund should not be a > surprise, experts said. It reflects demographic factors like the aging > of baby boomers into their 50s and 60s and the increase in the number > of women in the labor force, which makes them eligible for disability > insurance, they said. > Another factor, they said, is improper payments to some people who are > not disabled. > > Treasury Secretary Jacob J. Lew, the manager of the two trust funds, > said the reallocation of revenue proposed by Mr. Obama was "a common > sense solution to improve the solvency" of the disability fund. > > The trustees' report said that "some reallocation of resources between > the two trust funds" was necessary but not sufficient. Congress, they > said, should take other, unspecified steps to address the long-term > financial problems of the trust funds. > > Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, the chairman of the Senate > Finance Committee, said that "reshuffling funds," as proposed by Mr. > Obama, was no solution to the serious fiscal problems documented in the report. > > Social Security officials said they did not expect to provide a > cost-of-living adjustment to Social Security beneficiaries in 2016, > although that could change, depending on changes in consumer prices > over the next few months. > > The report projects a big increase in Medicare premiums for about 30 > percent of the 55 million people who have health insurance through the > program because of complex rules meant to protect the other 70 > percent. The standard premium for the unprotected group is expected to > rise to $159.30 a month in 2016, from the current level of $104.90. > For the highest-income beneficiaries, the report shows premiums rising > above $500 a month in 2016, from $335 this year. > > The report assumes that 70 percent of beneficiaries will be "held > harmless." > Most people on Medicare have premiums deducted from their monthly > Social Security checks. Under federal law, their premiums cannot rise > more than the dollar amount of the cost-of-living increase in their > Social Security checks. So if there is no inflation adjustment in > Social Security, their Medicare premiums would not increase. > > But Medicare will still need more money to pay doctors, and the > government could increase premiums for the 30 percent of beneficiaries > who do not have protection. Administration officials said they had > policy options to avoid huge increases and would decide on 2016 premiums in October of this year. > > Sylvia Mathews Burwell, the secretary of health and human services, > said the Affordable Care Act had extended the life of Medicare's > hospital insurance trust fund by 13 years. The law reduced the growth > of Medicare payments to many health care providers. Under prior law, > officials estimated that the trust fund would be depleted in 2017. > > Medicare spent an average of $12,430 per beneficiary last year, up 2 > percent from 2013, the report said. The total includes $4,900 for > hospitals and other institutions, $5,400 for doctors and other > outpatient services, and > $2,100 for prescription drugs. > > > > A version of this article appears in print on July 23, 2015, on page > A15 of the New York edition with the headline: Disability Benefits > Face Cuts in '16, Trustees Say. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcgl > obal.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail > .com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 23 23:55:33 2015 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:55:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits Message-ID: <000e01d0c5a3$11635cd0$342a1670$@sbcglobal.net> Listmates: Here is a true example. The disabled person receiving SSDI benefits is blind. There is no known treatment or cure for the blindness. The SS administration contacted the SSDI recipient for a four year review, having scheduled a visit to a local ophthalmologist to verify that the recipient is still blind. The recipient called the SSA and brought it to their attention that the recipient is blind and that there is no treatment or cure. The SSA caseworker admitted a full understanding of the issue, but stated that "it is administration policy that we conduct a review and have you examined". This probably cost the SSA in the neighborhood of $150. Multiply this by the number of such useless reviews and you are probably talking a lot of money. If the SSA started by simply eliminating the needless, useless reviews, it just might give them the 19% they are looking for. Otherwise, SSDI recipients have little to worry about as this gibberish is staged, pretentious saber rattling by worthless, pretentious elected officials who have nothing better to do with their highly over-compensated time. Has it ever occurred to the D.C. thugs that they could suffer a 19% cut in their $175,000 a year theifdoms, a 19% cut in their $250,000 annual retirement pay or that they stop exempting themselves from participation in the Social Security program and insider trading on the stock market? Well, the answer to that would be a resounding Hell NO! If they really did pass legislation to cut benefits by 19%, the same bill would contain a provision to give themselves a 19% pay raise. Washington D.C. means Washington, District of Criminals and all of them are nothing but a pack of thieves. Everyone in the House, everyone in the Senate and everyone in the Executive Offices, from president down, are there for one reason and one reason only; to feather their own nests and rape we the people. I know of brothels in Las Vegas that are more honorable institutions than the scum in Washington D.C. Daniel McBride Fort Worth, Texas From Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV Fri Jul 24 21:04:24 2015 From: Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV (Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR)) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 21:04:24 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Jas tje ADA Here's a link to an article that contains questions and answers about how the ADA is doing 25 years after its passage. The questions were of one of the original drafters, Robert Burgdorf. This is in this weeks ABA newsletter. http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/has_the_ada_measured_up_legislation_drafter_weighs_in_25_years_later/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly_email&job_id=150723AY#B /s/ Bennett Prows From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 22:39:32 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (anitakeithfoust at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:39:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits In-Reply-To: <000e01d0c5a3$11635cd0$342a1670$@sbcglobal.net> References: <000e01d0c5a3$11635cd0$342a1670$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <81B2E832-BEB8-4B67-BC3E-2C4332A92616@gmail.com> Wow! Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 23, 2015, at 7:55 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: > > Listmates: > > Here is a true example. The disabled person receiving SSDI benefits is > blind. There is no known treatment or cure for the blindness. The SS > administration contacted the SSDI recipient for a four year review, having > scheduled a visit to a local ophthalmologist to verify that the recipient is > still blind. The recipient called the SSA and brought it to their attention > that the recipient is blind and that there is no treatment or cure. The SSA > caseworker admitted a full understanding of the issue, but stated that "it > is administration policy that we conduct a review and have you examined". > This probably cost the SSA in the neighborhood of $150. Multiply this by the > number of such useless reviews and you are probably talking a lot of money. > If the SSA started by simply eliminating the needless, useless reviews, it > just might give them the 19% they are looking for. > > Otherwise, SSDI recipients have little to worry about as this gibberish is > staged, pretentious saber rattling by worthless, pretentious elected > officials who have nothing better to do with their highly over-compensated > time. Has it ever occurred to the D.C. thugs that they could suffer a 19% > cut in their $175,000 a year theifdoms, a 19% cut in their $250,000 annual > retirement pay or that they stop exempting themselves from participation in > the Social Security program and insider trading on the stock market? Well, > the answer to that would be a resounding Hell NO! If they really did pass > legislation to cut benefits by 19%, the same bill would contain a provision > to give themselves a 19% pay raise. > > Washington D.C. means Washington, District of Criminals and all of them are > nothing but a pack of thieves. Everyone in the House, everyone in the Senate > and everyone in the Executive Offices, from president down, are there for > one reason and one reason only; to feather their own nests and rape we the > people. > > I know of brothels in Las Vegas that are more honorable institutions than > the scum in Washington D.C. > > Daniel McBride > Fort Worth, Texas > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 22:44:16 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (anitakeithfoust at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:44:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security Disability Benefits face cuts in 2016N.Y. Times In-Reply-To: <000701d0c5a0$b2ef70a0$18ce51e0$@icloud.com> References: <003401d0c57e$cf92cd00$6eb86700$@roadrunner.com> <05E0F045776B4FF4B8F29BE1ABADFC87@Spike> <000701d0c5a0$b2ef70a0$18ce51e0$@icloud.com> Message-ID: We could make it a campaign issue. Is there a petition? Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 23, 2015, at 7:38 PM, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: > > because From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Jul 24 23:44:02 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 23:44:02 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [Jobs] FW: ACLU- Career Opportunity for a Fall 2016 Sponsored Fellowship in our Disability Rights Program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Jobs [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia via Jobs Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 11:37 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Cc: Maurer, Patricia Subject: [Jobs] FW: ACLU- Career Opportunity for a Fall 2016 Sponsored Fellowship in our Disability Rights Program From: Marisela Cortina [mailto:hrintern2 at aclu.org] Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:34 PM To: Marisela Cortina Subject: ACLU- Career Opportunity for a Fall 2016 Sponsored Fellowship in our Disability Rights Program Good Afternoon, The ACLU currently has a career opportunity for a Fall 2016 Sponsored Fellowship in our Disability Rights Program at our San Francisco Office. Please share the attached job description to your professional network. Best Regards, Marisela Cotrina -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CE-07 2016 Sponsored Fellowship-Disability Rights-.07.22.2015-Listsrv.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 134258 bytes Desc: CE-07 2016 Sponsored Fellowship-Disability Rights-.07.22.2015-Listsrv.pdf URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 00:46:50 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (Anita Keith-Foust) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 20:46:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Benjamin Yonathan - Blind Dancer on America's Got Talent Message-ID: <010301d0c673$652e82b0$2f8b8810$@gmail.com> We need to add this young man to our list of blind wonder people. Check it out, http://9to5google.com/2015/06/04/google-glass-dancer-video/. From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net Sat Jul 25 04:42:15 2015 From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 22:42:15 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits In-Reply-To: <81B2E832-BEB8-4B67-BC3E-2C4332A92616@gmail.com> References: <000e01d0c5a3$11635cd0$342a1670$@sbcglobal.net> <81B2E832-BEB8-4B67-BC3E-2C4332A92616@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55B313A7.80902@comcast.net> Wow, Daniel, love that way you refered to Washington as "thugs" and "District of Criminals." lol Really makes more sense. The President we only elected because he was African American, and it was a male we have currently in the White House. Imagine the tide when we elect a blind person who represents the Little Guy. Wow. Beth On 7/24/2015 4:39 PM, anitakeithfoust--- via blindlaw wrote: > Wow! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 23, 2015, at 7:55 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Listmates: >> >> Here is a true example. The disabled person receiving SSDI benefits is >> blind. There is no known treatment or cure for the blindness. The SS >> administration contacted the SSDI recipient for a four year review, having >> scheduled a visit to a local ophthalmologist to verify that the recipient is >> still blind. The recipient called the SSA and brought it to their attention >> that the recipient is blind and that there is no treatment or cure. The SSA >> caseworker admitted a full understanding of the issue, but stated that "it >> is administration policy that we conduct a review and have you examined". >> This probably cost the SSA in the neighborhood of $150. Multiply this by the >> number of such useless reviews and you are probably talking a lot of money. >> If the SSA started by simply eliminating the needless, useless reviews, it >> just might give them the 19% they are looking for. >> >> Otherwise, SSDI recipients have little to worry about as this gibberish is >> staged, pretentious saber rattling by worthless, pretentious elected >> officials who have nothing better to do with their highly over-compensated >> time. Has it ever occurred to the D.C. thugs that they could suffer a 19% >> cut in their $175,000 a year theifdoms, a 19% cut in their $250,000 annual >> retirement pay or that they stop exempting themselves from participation in >> the Social Security program and insider trading on the stock market? Well, >> the answer to that would be a resounding Hell NO! If they really did pass >> legislation to cut benefits by 19%, the same bill would contain a provision >> to give themselves a 19% pay raise. >> >> Washington D.C. means Washington, District of Criminals and all of them are >> nothing but a pack of thieves. Everyone in the House, everyone in the Senate >> and everyone in the Executive Offices, from president down, are there for >> one reason and one reason only; to feather their own nests and rape we the >> people. >> >> I know of brothels in Las Vegas that are more honorable institutions than >> the scum in Washington D.C. >> >> Daniel McBride >> Fort Worth, Texas >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net > -- This email is for Comcast info purposes or listserv mail only. For personal contact, please email at the following emails thebluesisloose at gmail.com personal email for friends and family only eataurasi at gmail.com for immediate family and work only For more on me, www.denverqueen.com From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 14:54:33 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (anitakeithfoust at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:54:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits In-Reply-To: <55B313A7.80902@comcast.net> References: <000e01d0c5a3$11635cd0$342a1670$@sbcglobal.net> <81B2E832-BEB8-4B67-BC3E-2C4332A92616@gmail.com> <55B313A7.80902@comcast.net> Message-ID: <53C881FB-122D-48F3-8515-3D7A992A7FBB@gmail.com> Only because he was African-American? Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 25, 2015, at 12:42 AM, Beth Taurasi via blindlaw wrote: > > Wow, Daniel, love that way you refered to Washington as "thugs" and "District of Criminals." lol Really makes more sense. The President we only elected because he was African American, and it was a male we have currently in the White House. Imagine the tide when we elect a blind person who represents the Little Guy. > Wow. > Beth > >> On 7/24/2015 4:39 PM, anitakeithfoust--- via blindlaw wrote: >> Wow! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 23, 2015, at 7:55 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >>> >>> Listmates: >>> >>> Here is a true example. The disabled person receiving SSDI benefits is >>> blind. There is no known treatment or cure for the blindness. The SS >>> administration contacted the SSDI recipient for a four year review, having >>> scheduled a visit to a local ophthalmologist to verify that the recipient is >>> still blind. The recipient called the SSA and brought it to their attention >>> that the recipient is blind and that there is no treatment or cure. The SSA >>> caseworker admitted a full understanding of the issue, but stated that "it >>> is administration policy that we conduct a review and have you examined". >>> This probably cost the SSA in the neighborhood of $150. Multiply this by the >>> number of such useless reviews and you are probably talking a lot of money. >>> If the SSA started by simply eliminating the needless, useless reviews, it >>> just might give them the 19% they are looking for. >>> >>> Otherwise, SSDI recipients have little to worry about as this gibberish is >>> staged, pretentious saber rattling by worthless, pretentious elected >>> officials who have nothing better to do with their highly over-compensated >>> time. Has it ever occurred to the D.C. thugs that they could suffer a 19% >>> cut in their $175,000 a year theifdoms, a 19% cut in their $250,000 annual >>> retirement pay or that they stop exempting themselves from participation in >>> the Social Security program and insider trading on the stock market? Well, >>> the answer to that would be a resounding Hell NO! If they really did pass >>> legislation to cut benefits by 19%, the same bill would contain a provision >>> to give themselves a 19% pay raise. >>> >>> Washington D.C. means Washington, District of Criminals and all of them are >>> nothing but a pack of thieves. Everyone in the House, everyone in the Senate >>> and everyone in the Executive Offices, from president down, are there for >>> one reason and one reason only; to feather their own nests and rape we the >>> people. >>> >>> I know of brothels in Las Vegas that are more honorable institutions than >>> the scum in Washington D.C. >>> >>> Daniel McBride >>> Fort Worth, Texas >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net > > > -- > This email is for Comcast info purposes or listserv mail only. For personal contact, please email at the following emails > thebluesisloose at gmail.com personal email for friends and family only > eataurasi at gmail.com for immediate family and work only > For more on me, www.denverqueen.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 25 15:05:18 2015 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:05:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits In-Reply-To: <55B313A7.80902@comcast.net> References: <000e01d0c5a3$11635cd0$342a1670$@sbcglobal.net> <81B2E832-BEB8-4B67-BC3E-2C4332A92616@gmail.com> <55B313A7.80902@comcast.net> Message-ID: <01ae01d0c6eb$53312bd0$f9938370$@sbcglobal.net> Beth: I simply have the understanding that the people who run for political office do not run this country and the people who run this country do not run for political office. From there, the rest isn't too difficult to figure out. All one need do is follow the money. Daniel -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi via blindlaw Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 11:42 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Beth Taurasi Subject: Re: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits Wow, Daniel, love that way you refered to Washington as "thugs" and "District of Criminals." lol Really makes more sense. The President we only elected because he was African American, and it was a male we have currently in the White House. Imagine the tide when we elect a blind person who represents the Little Guy. Wow. Beth On 7/24/2015 4:39 PM, anitakeithfoust--- via blindlaw wrote: > Wow! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 23, 2015, at 7:55 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Listmates: >> >> Here is a true example. The disabled person receiving SSDI benefits >> is blind. There is no known treatment or cure for the blindness. The >> SS administration contacted the SSDI recipient for a four year >> review, having scheduled a visit to a local ophthalmologist to verify >> that the recipient is still blind. The recipient called the SSA and >> brought it to their attention that the recipient is blind and that >> there is no treatment or cure. The SSA caseworker admitted a full >> understanding of the issue, but stated that "it is administration policy that we conduct a review and have you examined". >> This probably cost the SSA in the neighborhood of $150. Multiply this >> by the number of such useless reviews and you are probably talking a lot of money. >> If the SSA started by simply eliminating the needless, useless >> reviews, it just might give them the 19% they are looking for. >> >> Otherwise, SSDI recipients have little to worry about as this >> gibberish is staged, pretentious saber rattling by worthless, >> pretentious elected officials who have nothing better to do with >> their highly over-compensated time. Has it ever occurred to the D.C. >> thugs that they could suffer a 19% cut in their $175,000 a year >> theifdoms, a 19% cut in their $250,000 annual retirement pay or that >> they stop exempting themselves from participation in the Social >> Security program and insider trading on the stock market? Well, the >> answer to that would be a resounding Hell NO! If they really did pass >> legislation to cut benefits by 19%, the same bill would contain a provision to give themselves a 19% pay raise. >> >> Washington D.C. means Washington, District of Criminals and all of >> them are nothing but a pack of thieves. Everyone in the House, >> everyone in the Senate and everyone in the Executive Offices, from >> president down, are there for one reason and one reason only; to >> feather their own nests and rape we the people. >> >> I know of brothels in Las Vegas that are more honorable institutions >> than the scum in Washington D.C. >> >> Daniel McBride >> Fort Worth, Texas >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust >> %40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107% > 40comcast.net > -- This email is for Comcast info purposes or listserv mail only. For personal contact, please email at the following emails thebluesisloose at gmail.com personal email for friends and family only eataurasi at gmail.com for immediate family and work only For more on me, www.denverqueen.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net Sat Jul 25 15:21:06 2015 From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 09:21:06 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits In-Reply-To: <53C881FB-122D-48F3-8515-3D7A992A7FBB@gmail.com> References: <000e01d0c5a3$11635cd0$342a1670$@sbcglobal.net> <81B2E832-BEB8-4B67-BC3E-2C4332A92616@gmail.com> <55B313A7.80902@comcast.net> <53C881FB-122D-48F3-8515-3D7A992A7FBB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55B3A962.1050403@comcast.net> It appeared that way from the way people said it in the radio programs, but I think a lot of us might have thought he represented the Little Guy. Obama did all he could, but there are antis out there who hate Obama. I don't understand. Political discussion over. Beth On 7/25/2015 8:54 AM, anitakeithfoust--- via blindlaw wrote: > Only because he was African-American? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 25, 2015, at 12:42 AM, Beth Taurasi via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Wow, Daniel, love that way you refered to Washington as "thugs" and "District of Criminals." lol Really makes more sense. The President we only elected because he was African American, and it was a male we have currently in the White House. Imagine the tide when we elect a blind person who represents the Little Guy. >> Wow. >> Beth >> >>> On 7/24/2015 4:39 PM, anitakeithfoust--- via blindlaw wrote: >>> Wow! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 23, 2015, at 7:55 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Listmates: >>>> >>>> Here is a true example. The disabled person receiving SSDI benefits is >>>> blind. There is no known treatment or cure for the blindness. The SS >>>> administration contacted the SSDI recipient for a four year review, having >>>> scheduled a visit to a local ophthalmologist to verify that the recipient is >>>> still blind. The recipient called the SSA and brought it to their attention >>>> that the recipient is blind and that there is no treatment or cure. The SSA >>>> caseworker admitted a full understanding of the issue, but stated that "it >>>> is administration policy that we conduct a review and have you examined". >>>> This probably cost the SSA in the neighborhood of $150. Multiply this by the >>>> number of such useless reviews and you are probably talking a lot of money. >>>> If the SSA started by simply eliminating the needless, useless reviews, it >>>> just might give them the 19% they are looking for. >>>> >>>> Otherwise, SSDI recipients have little to worry about as this gibberish is >>>> staged, pretentious saber rattling by worthless, pretentious elected >>>> officials who have nothing better to do with their highly over-compensated >>>> time. Has it ever occurred to the D.C. thugs that they could suffer a 19% >>>> cut in their $175,000 a year theifdoms, a 19% cut in their $250,000 annual >>>> retirement pay or that they stop exempting themselves from participation in >>>> the Social Security program and insider trading on the stock market? Well, >>>> the answer to that would be a resounding Hell NO! If they really did pass >>>> legislation to cut benefits by 19%, the same bill would contain a provision >>>> to give themselves a 19% pay raise. >>>> >>>> Washington D.C. means Washington, District of Criminals and all of them are >>>> nothing but a pack of thieves. Everyone in the House, everyone in the Senate >>>> and everyone in the Executive Offices, from president down, are there for >>>> one reason and one reason only; to feather their own nests and rape we the >>>> people. >>>> >>>> I know of brothels in Las Vegas that are more honorable institutions than >>>> the scum in Washington D.C. >>>> >>>> Daniel McBride >>>> Fort Worth, Texas >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net >> >> -- >> This email is for Comcast info purposes or listserv mail only. For personal contact, please email at the following emails >> thebluesisloose at gmail.com personal email for friends and family only >> eataurasi at gmail.com for immediate family and work only >> For more on me, www.denverqueen.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net > -- This email is for Comcast info purposes or listserv mail only. For personal contact, please email at the following emails thebluesisloose at gmail.com personal email for friends and family only eataurasi at gmail.com for immediate family and work only For more on me, www.denverqueen.com From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 15:33:46 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (anitakeithfoust at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 11:33:46 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits In-Reply-To: <55B3A962.1050403@comcast.net> References: <000e01d0c5a3$11635cd0$342a1670$@sbcglobal.net> <81B2E832-BEB8-4B67-BC3E-2C4332A92616@gmail.com> <55B313A7.80902@comcast.net> <53C881FB-122D-48F3-8515-3D7A992A7FBB@gmail.com> <55B3A962.1050403@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4AC97581-A76E-41BC-A967-E34FEBAF2590@gmail.com> There is a lot of people who hate people in general . There are even people who hate blind people out there. They think we are faking. Hence the reason for the rechecking of our status. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 25, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Beth Taurasi via blindlaw wrote: > > It appeared that way from the way people said it in the radio programs, but I think a lot of us might have thought he represented the Little Guy. Obama did all he could, but there are antis out there who hate Obama. > I don't understand. > Political discussion over. > Beth > >> On 7/25/2015 8:54 AM, anitakeithfoust--- via blindlaw wrote: >> Only because he was African-American? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 25, 2015, at 12:42 AM, Beth Taurasi via blindlaw wrote: >>> >>> Wow, Daniel, love that way you refered to Washington as "thugs" and "District of Criminals." lol Really makes more sense. The President we only elected because he was African American, and it was a male we have currently in the White House. Imagine the tide when we elect a blind person who represents the Little Guy. >>> Wow. >>> Beth >>> >>>> On 7/24/2015 4:39 PM, anitakeithfoust--- via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Wow! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Jul 23, 2015, at 7:55 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Listmates: >>>>> >>>>> Here is a true example. The disabled person receiving SSDI benefits is >>>>> blind. There is no known treatment or cure for the blindness. The SS >>>>> administration contacted the SSDI recipient for a four year review, having >>>>> scheduled a visit to a local ophthalmologist to verify that the recipient is >>>>> still blind. The recipient called the SSA and brought it to their attention >>>>> that the recipient is blind and that there is no treatment or cure. The SSA >>>>> caseworker admitted a full understanding of the issue, but stated that "it >>>>> is administration policy that we conduct a review and have you examined". >>>>> This probably cost the SSA in the neighborhood of $150. Multiply this by the >>>>> number of such useless reviews and you are probably talking a lot of money. >>>>> If the SSA started by simply eliminating the needless, useless reviews, it >>>>> just might give them the 19% they are looking for. >>>>> >>>>> Otherwise, SSDI recipients have little to worry about as this gibberish is >>>>> staged, pretentious saber rattling by worthless, pretentious elected >>>>> officials who have nothing better to do with their highly over-compensated >>>>> time. Has it ever occurred to the D.C. thugs that they could suffer a 19% >>>>> cut in their $175,000 a year theifdoms, a 19% cut in their $250,000 annual >>>>> retirement pay or that they stop exempting themselves from participation in >>>>> the Social Security program and insider trading on the stock market? Well, >>>>> the answer to that would be a resounding Hell NO! If they really did pass >>>>> legislation to cut benefits by 19%, the same bill would contain a provision >>>>> to give themselves a 19% pay raise. >>>>> >>>>> Washington D.C. means Washington, District of Criminals and all of them are >>>>> nothing but a pack of thieves. Everyone in the House, everyone in the Senate >>>>> and everyone in the Executive Offices, from president down, are there for >>>>> one reason and one reason only; to feather their own nests and rape we the >>>>> people. >>>>> >>>>> I know of brothels in Las Vegas that are more honorable institutions than >>>>> the scum in Washington D.C. >>>>> >>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>> Fort Worth, Texas >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net >>> >>> -- >>> This email is for Comcast info purposes or listserv mail only. For personal contact, please email at the following emails >>> thebluesisloose at gmail.com personal email for friends and family only >>> eataurasi at gmail.com for immediate family and work only >>> For more on me, www.denverqueen.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net > > > -- > This email is for Comcast info purposes or listserv mail only. For personal contact, please email at the following emails > thebluesisloose at gmail.com personal email for friends and family only > eataurasi at gmail.com for immediate family and work only > For more on me, www.denverqueen.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Sat Jul 25 15:42:33 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:42:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits In-Reply-To: <01ae01d0c6eb$53312bd0$f9938370$@sbcglobal.net> References: <000e01d0c5a3$11635cd0$342a1670$@sbcglobal.net> <81B2E832-BEB8-4B67-BC3E-2C4332A92616@gmail.com> <55B313A7.80902@comcast.net> <01ae01d0c6eb$53312bd0$f9938370$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000401d0c6f0$8751f390$95f5dab0$@icloud.com> I agree. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via blindlaw Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:05 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Daniel McBride Subject: Re: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits Beth: I simply have the understanding that the people who run for political office do not run this country and the people who run this country do not run for political office. From there, the rest isn't too difficult to figure out. All one need do is follow the money. Daniel -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi via blindlaw Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 11:42 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Beth Taurasi Subject: Re: [blindlaw] cuts in SSDI benefits Wow, Daniel, love that way you refered to Washington as "thugs" and "District of Criminals." lol Really makes more sense. The President we only elected because he was African American, and it was a male we have currently in the White House. Imagine the tide when we elect a blind person who represents the Little Guy. Wow. Beth On 7/24/2015 4:39 PM, anitakeithfoust--- via blindlaw wrote: > Wow! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 23, 2015, at 7:55 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Listmates: >> >> Here is a true example. The disabled person receiving SSDI benefits >> is blind. There is no known treatment or cure for the blindness. The >> SS administration contacted the SSDI recipient for a four year >> review, having scheduled a visit to a local ophthalmologist to verify >> that the recipient is still blind. The recipient called the SSA and >> brought it to their attention that the recipient is blind and that >> there is no treatment or cure. The SSA caseworker admitted a full >> understanding of the issue, but stated that "it is administration policy that we conduct a review and have you examined". >> This probably cost the SSA in the neighborhood of $150. Multiply this >> by the number of such useless reviews and you are probably talking a lot of money. >> If the SSA started by simply eliminating the needless, useless >> reviews, it just might give them the 19% they are looking for. >> >> Otherwise, SSDI recipients have little to worry about as this >> gibberish is staged, pretentious saber rattling by worthless, >> pretentious elected officials who have nothing better to do with >> their highly over-compensated time. Has it ever occurred to the D.C. >> thugs that they could suffer a 19% cut in their $175,000 a year >> theifdoms, a 19% cut in their $250,000 annual retirement pay or that >> they stop exempting themselves from participation in the Social >> Security program and insider trading on the stock market? Well, the >> answer to that would be a resounding Hell NO! If they really did pass >> legislation to cut benefits by 19%, the same bill would contain a provision to give themselves a 19% pay raise. >> >> Washington D.C. means Washington, District of Criminals and all of >> them are nothing but a pack of thieves. Everyone in the House, >> everyone in the Senate and everyone in the Executive Offices, from >> president down, are there for one reason and one reason only; to >> feather their own nests and rape we the people. >> >> I know of brothels in Las Vegas that are more honorable institutions >> than the scum in Washington D.C. >> >> Daniel McBride >> Fort Worth, Texas >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust >> %40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107% > 40comcast.net > -- This email is for Comcast info purposes or listserv mail only. For personal contact, please email at the following emails thebluesisloose at gmail.com personal email for friends and family only eataurasi at gmail.com for immediate family and work only For more on me, www.denverqueen.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From mildredrivera at yahoo.com Sat Jul 25 17:07:25 2015 From: mildredrivera at yahoo.com (Millie Rivera-Rau) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 17:07:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] Benjamin Yonathan - Blind Dancer on America's Got Talent In-Reply-To: <010301d0c673$652e82b0$2f8b8810$@gmail.com> References: <010301d0c673$652e82b0$2f8b8810$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1650773652.2260674.1437844045164.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Anita, This is just a friendly reminder that this list serve is for legal and related matters. There are some other ones that would be good for this type of announcement though.  Have an nice day !!! :), Mildred From: Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Anita Keith-Foust Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 8:46 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Benjamin Yonathan - Blind Dancer on America's Got Talent We need to add this young man to our list of blind wonder people. Check it out, http://9to5google.com/2015/06/04/google-glass-dancer-video/. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jul 27 20:57:35 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 20:57:35 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [Jobs] FW: Job Opening- ACLU Fellowship Fall 2016, LGBT & HIV Project - Please Post and Forward In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Jobs [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia via Jobs Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 8:30 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Cc: Maurer, Patricia Subject: [Jobs] FW: Job Opening- ACLU Fellowship Fall 2016, LGBT & HIV Project - Please Post and Forward From: Ackha Romulus [mailto:hrintern3 at aclu.org] Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 9:40 AM To: Maurer, Patricia Subject: Job Opening- ACLU Fellowship Fall 2016, LGBT & HIV Project - Please Post and Forward FALL 2016 FELLOWSHIP OPPORTUNITY SPONSORED FELLOWSHIP [LGBT-17] American Civil Liberties Union Foundation Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender & HIV Project, NY For nearly 100 years, the ACLU has been our nation’s guardian of liberty, working in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Whether it’s ending mass incarceration, achieving full equality for the LGBT community, establishing new privacy protections for our digital age, or preserving the right to vote or the right to have an abortion, the ACLU takes up the toughest civil liberties cases and issues to defend all people from government abuse and overreach. With more than a million members, activists, and supporters, the ACLU is a nationwide organization that fights tirelessly in all 50 states, Puerto Rico, and Washington, D.C., for the principle that every individual’s rights must be protected equally under the law, regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, disability or national origin. The Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender and HIV Project of the ACLU’s National Office in New York City is seeking to sponsor a candidate for fellowships to begin in the Fall of 2016. OVERVIEW Founded in 1986, the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender (LGBT) & HIV Project is a division of the national ACLU. It is part of the ACLU’s Center for Liberty, which encompasses the ACLU’s work on women’s rights, reproductive freedom, LGBT rights and the rights of people living with HIV, and freedom of religion and belief. The Center for Liberty is dedicated to the principle that we are all entitled to determine the course of our lives based on who we are and what we believe, free from unreasonable government constraint and baseless stereotypes. The goal of the Project is the creation of a society in which lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people and people with HIV enjoy the basic rights of equality, privacy, personal autonomy, and freedom of belief, expression and association. This means an America where people can live open and honest lives without fear of discrimination or abuse, and where everyone enjoys respect for their identities, relationships and families, and enjoys fair treatment in employment, schools, health care, housing and public places and programs. The Project brings “impact” lawsuits in state and federal courts throughout the country –– cases designed to have a significant effect on the lives of LGBT people and those living with HIV. The Project’s legal strategies are built on the idea that fighting for civil rights means not only persuading judges but also ultimately changing the way people think. As the Project litigates for change, it implements targeted media, online and outreach campaigns to change public attitudes through education and to give people on the frontlines the tools they need to act. As a part of the ACLU, the Project is in a unique position to work for justice for LGBT people and people living with HIV. The ACLU’s national network of affiliates broadens the Project’s reach into every locality and into the federal government. Today, the ACLU brings more LGBT cases and advocacy initiatives than any other national civil rights organization. The Project strives to ensure that the racial and economic diversity of the LGBT community is reflected in its work and continues to explore ways to make its efforts more responsive to the needs of people of color and people living in poverty. The Project’s work as part of the broad civil liberties agenda of the ACLU, exemplifies the notion that the LGBT community and the community of those living with HIV must work in concert with other social change movements in order to achieve a just society for all. The LGBT & HIV Project is seeking to sponsor a candidate for fellowship funding through Skadden, Equal Justice Works and other programs to develop a proposal focusing on the rights of transgender individuals to enjoy meaningful access to health care, identification documents and single-sex spaces consistent with gender identity. The candidate will work jointly with Project staff to apply for applicable fellowship programs. In this process the fellow will be responsible for preparing application materials with the support of Project staff and identifying potential sources of funding for the proposed fellowship. If selected, the fellow will be responsible for: ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES Identifying, preparing, and filing litigation on behalf of transgender individuals in health care, identification documents and cases regarding single sex spaces. Developing legislative strategies in support of affirmative protections for transgender individuals in federal, state and local law and opposing efforts to restrict or limit such protections. Developing public education tools for building awareness of transgender individuals and how existing law protects transgender individuals’ right to access health care, identification documents and single sex spaces consistent with gender identity. Researching prospects for new litigation, including both factual and legal claims. Supervising interns’ work in support of the above. EXPERIENCE AND QUALIFICATIONS * J.D. degree, or expected law school graduation in the spring of 2016. * Excellent research, writing, analytical and communication skills. * Familiarity with legal issues impacting LGBT individuals and people living with HIV. * Demonstrated commitment to issues affecting transgender communities. * The ability to work independently as well as collaboratively with a wide range of people. * Demonstrated commitment to civil liberties issues and the mission of the ACLU. COMPENSATION The ACLU offers a generous and comprehensive compensation and benefits package, commensurate with experience and within parameters of the ACLU compensation scale. HOW TO APPLY Applicants should send a cover letter explaining in detail the applicant’s interest in the project and fellowship, a resume, and a legal writing sample to: hrjobsLGBT at aclu.org –– Reference [LGBT-17/ACLU-W] in the subject line. Please note that this is not the general ACLU applicant email address. This email address is specific to LGBT & HIV Project postings. In order to ensure your application is received, please make certain it is sent to the correct e-mail address. You can expect to receive an automatic response that acknowledges the submission of application materials. Alternatively, applications can be mailed to: American Civil Liberties Union Foundation RE: [LGBT-17/INCL 35] 125 Broad Street, 18th Floor New York, NY 10004 Please indicate in your cover letter where you learned of this fellowship opportunity. Applications must be received by August 5, 2015. This job description provides a general but not comprehensive list of the essential responsibilities and qualifications required. It does not represent a contract of employment. The ACLU reserves the right to change the description and/or posting at any time without advance notice. The ACLU is an equal opportunity employer. We value a diverse workforce and an inclusive culture. The ACLU encourages applications from all qualified individuals without regard to race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, national origin, marital status, citizenship, disability, and veteran status. The ACLU undertakes affirmative action strategies in its recruitment and employment efforts to assure that persons with disabilities have full opportunities for employment in all positions. We encourage applicants with disabilities who may need accommodations in the application process to contact:hrjobsincl at aclu.org. Correspondence sent to this email address that is not related to requests for accommodations will not be reviewed. Applicants should follow the instructions above regarding how to apply. The ACLU comprises two separate corporate entities, the American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU Foundation. Both the American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU Foundation are national organizations with the same overall mission, and share office space and employees. The ACLU has two separate corporate entities in order to do a broad range of work to protect civil liberties. This job posting refers collectively to the two organizations under the name “ACLU.” -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Mon Jul 27 21:37:47 2015 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:37:47 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ZOOM TEXT & WINDOW-EYES? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004301d0c8b4$7b844980$728cdc80$@com> Dear All: I think it was Susie who had enquired about ZoomText sometime back? In any case, The following statement from AI Squared might be helpful for evaluation purposes if nothing else? In 2015, we will be releasing a product called ZoomText Fusion. This product will combine the power of ZoomText and Window-Eyes in a single product. ZoomText Fusion is specifically designed for people who have progressive eye conditions or are in transition from low vision to blindness. ZoomText Fusion includes all of the power of ZoomText Magnifier, ZoomText Magnifier/Reader, as well as complete and full screen reading into one, single, integrated product. More info coming soon. All the Best, Jeremy Jeremy Curry Director of Product Management Ai Squared, Inc. Phone: (802) 362-3612 Email: jcurry at aisquared.com Web: www.aisquared.com Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 11:50:57 2015 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 07:50:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: <79B8A6AC-8EEF-491F-B993-EC686F34393C@aol.com> References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> <79B8A6AC-8EEF-491F-B993-EC686F34393C@aol.com> Message-ID: Would the online subscription of bluebook be a sufficient substitution for the print book, or would I need both print and online versions? I also have the supplemental on my book list. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2015, at 1:04 PM, ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw wrote: > > https://www.legalbluebook.com > >> On Jul 20, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Nicole Askins via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Also, where can I get a copy of this blue book that was spoken during this >> conversation? Of course I would need it in an electronic format can I >> obtain that on my own prior to entering school? >>> On Jul 20, 2015 12:53 PM, "Nicole Askins" wrote: >>> >>> Thank you for your response. I will be at the Baltimore campus Frances C >>> Carie School of Law >>> On Jul 20, 2015 9:03 AM, "Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw" < >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes a >>>> big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact Dan >>>> Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the >>>> coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates with >>>> all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you need. >>>> Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. >>>> >>>> Yasmin Reyazuddin >>>> Aging & Disability Services >>>> Montgomery County Government >>>> Department of Health & Human Services >>>> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) >>>> Rockville MD 20850 >>>> 240-777-0311 (MC311) >>>> 240-777-1556 (personal) >>>> 240-777-1495 (fax) >>>> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm >>>> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille >>>> >>>> >>>> This message may contain protected health information or other >>>> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >>>> recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies >>>> of this material. >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole >>>> Askins via blindlaw >>>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Nicole Askins >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook >>>> >>>> Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been >>>> placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I >>>> will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I >>>> have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course >>>> materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 >>>> PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for >>>>> my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line >>>>> through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this >>>>> method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition >>>>> to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font >>>>> type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to >>>>> know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription >>>>> service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how >>>> to format legal documents correctly. >>>>> Any feedback is appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Michal >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail >>>>> .com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Wed Jul 29 12:01:11 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 08:01:11 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> <79B8A6AC-8EEF-491F-B993-EC686F34393C@aol.com> Message-ID: <18E78C35-8C2D-463F-AACE-E87F68D7EE75@jd16.law.harvard.edu> I personally like having both just in case I'm working offline or something. That said, you could probably get by without it. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 29, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Aimee Harwood via blindlaw wrote: > > Would the online subscription of bluebook be a sufficient substitution for the print book, or would I need both print and online versions? I also have the supplemental on my book list. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2015, at 1:04 PM, ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw wrote: >> >> https://www.legalbluebook.com >> >>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Nicole Askins via blindlaw wrote: >>> >>> Also, where can I get a copy of this blue book that was spoken during this >>> conversation? Of course I would need it in an electronic format can I >>> obtain that on my own prior to entering school? >>>> On Jul 20, 2015 12:53 PM, "Nicole Askins" wrote: >>>> >>>> Thank you for your response. I will be at the Baltimore campus Frances C >>>> Carie School of Law >>>> On Jul 20, 2015 9:03 AM, "Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw" < >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes a >>>>> big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact Dan >>>>> Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the >>>>> coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates with >>>>> all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you need. >>>>> Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. >>>>> >>>>> Yasmin Reyazuddin >>>>> Aging & Disability Services >>>>> Montgomery County Government >>>>> Department of Health & Human Services >>>>> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) >>>>> Rockville MD 20850 >>>>> 240-777-0311 (MC311) >>>>> 240-777-1556 (personal) >>>>> 240-777-1495 (fax) >>>>> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm >>>>> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This message may contain protected health information or other >>>>> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>> recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies >>>>> of this material. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole >>>>> Askins via blindlaw >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Nicole Askins >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook >>>>> >>>>> Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been >>>>> placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I >>>>> will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I >>>>> have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course >>>>> materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 >>>>> PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for >>>>>> my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line >>>>>> through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this >>>>>> method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition >>>>>> to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font >>>>>> type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to >>>>>> know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription >>>>>> service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how >>>>> to format legal documents correctly. >>>>>> Any feedback is appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Michal >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From chris.stewart at uky.edu Wed Jul 29 12:19:22 2015 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 08:19:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook Message-ID: Amy, the online subscription is all you need. It is exactly formatted and very accessible. For the record, several of my classmates now only use the online version because it is searchable, very convenient. Honestly, I think trying to use a pdf of the Bluebook would be hell because of minor attributes like small caps, different types of dashes, Etc. Were I you, I would avoid anything other than the online version, perhaps in conjunction with a personal reader, preferably one who is either familiar with the Bluebook already or at least familiar with style guides in general. As for minute detail, it is all perfectly clear online. My experience is that you need to copy the sample citation to MS Word, and it will then give you the full list of attributes. There may be a way to get JAWS to read small caps in a web browser, but I don't know it. Let me know if you've any other questions. Best, Chris On 7/29/15, blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Bluebook (Aimee Harwood) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 07:50:57 -0400 > From: Aimee Harwood > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Would the online subscription of bluebook be a sufficient substitution for > the print book, or would I need both print and online versions? I also have > the supplemental on my book list. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2015, at 1:04 PM, ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> https://www.legalbluebook.com >> >>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Nicole Askins via blindlaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Also, where can I get a copy of this blue book that was spoken during >>> this >>> conversation? Of course I would need it in an electronic format can I >>> obtain that on my own prior to entering school? >>>> On Jul 20, 2015 12:53 PM, "Nicole Askins" wrote: >>>> >>>> Thank you for your response. I will be at the Baltimore campus Frances >>>> C >>>> Carie School of Law >>>> On Jul 20, 2015 9:03 AM, "Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw" < >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes >>>>> a >>>>> big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact >>>>> Dan >>>>> Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the >>>>> coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates >>>>> with >>>>> all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you >>>>> need. >>>>> Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. >>>>> >>>>> Yasmin Reyazuddin >>>>> Aging & Disability Services >>>>> Montgomery County Government >>>>> Department of Health & Human Services >>>>> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) >>>>> Rockville MD 20850 >>>>> 240-777-0311 (MC311) >>>>> 240-777-1556 (personal) >>>>> 240-777-1495 (fax) >>>>> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm >>>>> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This message may contain protected health information or other >>>>> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the >>>>> intended >>>>> recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any >>>>> copies >>>>> of this material. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Nicole >>>>> Askins via blindlaw >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Nicole Askins >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook >>>>> >>>>> Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been >>>>> placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that >>>>> I >>>>> will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as >>>>> I >>>>> have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course >>>>> materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 >>>>> 3:44 >>>>> PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook >>>>>> for >>>>>> my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available >>>>>> on-line >>>>>> through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this >>>>>> method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in >>>>>> addition >>>>>> to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font >>>>>> type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need >>>>>> to >>>>>> know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription >>>>>> service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning >>>>>> how >>>>> to format legal documents correctly. >>>>>> Any feedback is appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Michal >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail >>>>>> .com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 134, Issue 26 > ***************************************** > -- Chris K. Stewart University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 Ph: (502)457-1757 From al.elia at aol.com Wed Jul 29 12:56:39 2015 From: al.elia at aol.com (Al Elia) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 08:56:39 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: <18E78C35-8C2D-463F-AACE-E87F68D7EE75@jd16.law.harvard.edu> References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> <79B8A6AC-8EEF-491F-B993-EC686F34393C@aol.com> <18E78C35-8C2D-463F-AACE-E87F68D7EE75@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <151D06D6-B4EA-4E67-AB06-2AEBEAA941C8@aol.com> Unless you are partially sighted (and can thus read the bluebook print version with magnification), the print version is totally useless. Best, Al, who is brusquer than usual because he's typing on an iPhone. > On Jul 29, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: > > I personally like having both just in case I'm working offline or something. That said, you could probably get by without it. > > Best regards > Derek Manners > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 29, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Aimee Harwood via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Would the online subscription of bluebook be a sufficient substitution for the print book, or would I need both print and online versions? I also have the supplemental on my book list. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 1:04 PM, ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw wrote: >>> >>> https://www.legalbluebook.com >>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Nicole Askins via blindlaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Also, where can I get a copy of this blue book that was spoken during this >>>> conversation? Of course I would need it in an electronic format can I >>>> obtain that on my own prior to entering school? >>>>> On Jul 20, 2015 12:53 PM, "Nicole Askins" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your response. I will be at the Baltimore campus Frances C >>>>> Carie School of Law >>>>> On Jul 20, 2015 9:03 AM, "Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw" < >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes a >>>>>> big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact Dan >>>>>> Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the >>>>>> coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates with >>>>>> all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you need. >>>>>> Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yasmin Reyazuddin >>>>>> Aging & Disability Services >>>>>> Montgomery County Government >>>>>> Department of Health & Human Services >>>>>> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) >>>>>> Rockville MD 20850 >>>>>> 240-777-0311 (MC311) >>>>>> 240-777-1556 (personal) >>>>>> 240-777-1495 (fax) >>>>>> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm >>>>>> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This message may contain protected health information or other >>>>>> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies >>>>>> of this material. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole >>>>>> Askins via blindlaw >>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Nicole Askins >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been >>>>>> placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I >>>>>> will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I >>>>>> have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course >>>>>> materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 >>>>>> PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for >>>>>>> my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line >>>>>>> through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this >>>>>>> method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition >>>>>>> to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font >>>>>>> type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to >>>>>>> know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription >>>>>>> service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how >>>>>> to format legal documents correctly. >>>>>>> Any feedback is appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michal >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail >>>>>>> .com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com From davant1958 at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 13:17:21 2015 From: davant1958 at gmail.com (davant1958 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 08:17:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bluebook In-Reply-To: <151D06D6-B4EA-4E67-AB06-2AEBEAA941C8@aol.com> References: <000801d0c25b$2c279b30$8476d190$@icloud.com> <79B8A6AC-8EEF-491F-B993-EC686F34393C@aol.com> <18E78C35-8C2D-463F-AACE-E87F68D7EE75@jd16.law.harvard.edu> <151D06D6-B4EA-4E67-AB06-2AEBEAA941C8@aol.com> Message-ID: <72AD9B9C-D225-4B2A-A3FD-A401255F7D35@gmail.com> If you are having a reader look at it to aid in formatting, you should make sure you have access to a print version by the way, the Bluebook is a reference book you will need to consult throughout school and beyond Denise R. Avant President National Federation of the Blind of Illinois Live the life you want Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 29, 2015, at 7:56 AM, Al Elia via blindlaw wrote: > > Unless you are partially sighted (and can thus read the bluebook print version with magnification), the print version is totally useless. > > Best, > > Al, who is brusquer than usual because he's typing on an iPhone. > >> On Jul 29, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: >> >> I personally like having both just in case I'm working offline or something. That said, you could probably get by without it. >> >> Best regards >> Derek Manners >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 29, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Aimee Harwood via blindlaw wrote: >>> >>> Would the online subscription of bluebook be a sufficient substitution for the print book, or would I need both print and online versions? I also have the supplemental on my book list. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 1:04 PM, ALBERT ELIA via blindlaw wrote: >>>> >>>> https://www.legalbluebook.com >>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Nicole Askins via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Also, where can I get a copy of this blue book that was spoken during this >>>>> conversation? Of course I would need it in an electronic format can I >>>>> obtain that on my own prior to entering school? >>>>>> On Jul 20, 2015 12:53 PM, "Nicole Askins" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your response. I will be at the Baltimore campus Frances C >>>>>> Carie School of Law >>>>>> On Jul 20, 2015 9:03 AM, "Reyazuddin, Yasmin via blindlaw" < >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you going to be at the College Park campus or Baltimore. It makes a >>>>>>> big difference. If you are at the College Park campus Please contact Dan >>>>>>> Newsome at 301-314-7958 and ask him for an appointment. He is the >>>>>>> coordinator of the Adaptive technology lab on campus. He coordinates with >>>>>>> all the services on campus to get the books in whatever format you need. >>>>>>> Braille, audio, MP3 format or digital. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yasmin Reyazuddin >>>>>>> Aging & Disability Services >>>>>>> Montgomery County Government >>>>>>> Department of Health & Human Services >>>>>>> 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) >>>>>>> Rockville MD 20850 >>>>>>> 240-777-0311 (MC311) >>>>>>> 240-777-1556 (personal) >>>>>>> 240-777-1495 (fax) >>>>>>> office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm >>>>>>> Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This message may contain protected health information or other >>>>>>> information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies >>>>>>> of this material. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole >>>>>>> Askins via blindlaw >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 8:50 AM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Nicole Askins >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello everyone, I too AM starting law school in the fall but have been >>>>>>> placed on University of Maryland weightless. I am fairly certain that I >>>>>>> will be fully accepted but, what will I need to get started seeing as I >>>>>>> have not received my acceptance letter yet nor do I know what course >>>>>>> materials are needed. Attempting to get a head start On Jul 19, 2015 3:44 >>>>>>> PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am starting law school in the fall, and I will need the Bluebook for >>>>>>>> my legal writing class. I know that the Bluebook is available on-line >>>>>>>> through a subscription. Have any of you accessed it using this >>>>>>>> method? If so, did you find it accessible? Specifically, in addition >>>>>>>> to eas of navigation, does JAWS identify formatting attributes (font >>>>>>>> type, size, color, bold/underline/italics, etc.) correctly? I need to >>>>>>>> know this so that I can determine whether or not the subscription >>>>>>>> service is a reliable version of the book when it comes to learning how >>>>>>> to format legal documents correctly. >>>>>>>> Any feedback is appreciated. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Michal >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jul 29 18:11:01 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 18:11:01 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] =?windows-1252?q?DOJ_Shifts_Position_on_Web_Access=3A_?= =?windows-1252?q?Stating_In_Court_Filings_That_Public_Accommodations_Have?= =?windows-1252?q?_a_=93Pre-Existing=94_Obligation_to_Make_Websites_Access?= =?windows-1252?q?ible=2C_Seyfarth_Shaw_LLP=2C_July_8_2015?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An article on Seyfarth Shaw LLP, a law firm, website as a client alert. Link: http://www.seyfarth.com/publications/OMM070815-LE Text: DOJ Shifts Position on Web Access: Stating In Court Filings That Public Accommodations Have a “Pre-Existing” Obligation to Make Websites Accessible 07/08/2015 Attorney: Minh N. Vu What a difference five years makes. In September 2010, the Justice Department (DOJ) announced in an Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANPRM) that it would issue new regulations under Title III of the ADA to address the accessibility of public accommodations websites. At that time, it made a number of statements that reasonably led public accommodations to conclude that their websites did not necessarily have to be accessible as long as the public accommodation offered an equivalent alternative way to access the goods and services that were provided on the website. The DOJ’s statements also led public accommodations to believe that once DOJ issues a final regulation, they would have time to make their websites comply with the technical accessibility standard DOJ adopts in that regulation. DOJ has now shifted positions, presenting its revised viewpoint in Statements of Interest it filed in two lawsuits originally brought by the National Association of the Deaf (NAD) against two universities about the alleged inaccessibility of videos on their websites. What DOJ said in 2010. In the 2010 ANPRM, DOJ stated that “covered entities with inaccessible websites may comply with the ADA’s requirement for access by providing an accessible alternative, such as a staffed telephone line, for individuals to access the information, goods, and services of their website. In order for an entity to meet its legal obligation under the ADA, an entity’s alternative must provide an equal degree of access in terms of hours of operations and range of information, options, and services available. For example, a department store that has an inaccessible website that allows customers to access their credit accounts 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in order to review their statements and make payments would need to provide access to the same information and provide the same payment options in its accessible alternative.” DOJ also asked the public to comment on the following questions: (1) “Are the proposed effective dates for the regulations reasonable or should the Department adopt shorter or longer periods for compliance?” (2) “Should the Department adopt a safe harbor for such [web] content so long as it is not updated or modified? (3) “Should the Department´s regulation initially apply to entities of a certain size (e.g., entities with 15 or more employees or earning a certain amount of revenue) or certain categories of entities (e.g., retail websites)?” Particularly relevant to the NAD lawsuits, DOJ specifically asked the public to comment on whether requiring videos on websites to have captioning would reduce the number of videos that public accommodations would make available, to the detriment of the public. (“[W]ould the costs of a requirement to provide captioning to videos cause covered entities to provide fewer videos on their websites?”). What the DOJ is saying now. On June 25, 2015, the DOJ filed Statements of Interest in two lawsuits brought by the NAD against two major private universities. The NAD brought suit against these two universities under Title III of the ADA and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act alleging that they had failed to caption the many thousands of videos that are posted to their various websites. To be clear, at issue are not videos that students enrolled in paid or free courses may be required to view. Instead, at issue are videos of general interest (e.g., a lecture posted by a professor, a speech given at the university, or even a campus organization’s event). Both schools asked the federal court to stay their respective cases until the DOJ issues final regulations specifying what the law requires of public accommodations websites or to dismiss the cases in their entirety on other grounds. Though not a party to either case, the DOJ filed a brief in both in support of the NAD. Although there is much to digest in the DOJ’s briefs, here are some highlights: •“[T]he scope and timing of any final rule on web accessibility is speculative and far from imminent; although the title III proposed rule. . . is currently scheduled for a Spring 2016 publication, there is no scheduled date for publication of a final rule.” In other words, it could be years before we see any final regulations on website accessibility. Meanwhile, DOJ continues to pressure businesses into making their websites accessible by filing these types of briefs and threatening enforcement actions, as we have reported. • The obligation to make websites accessible exists right now, even in the absence of any new regulations. DOJ made this point indirectly by stating that when it issued the ANPRM in 2010, it was seeking “to explore whether rulemaking would be helpful in providing guidance as to how covered entities could meet their pre-existing obligations to make their websites accessible.” This position departs significantly from DOJ’s statement in the 2010 ANPRM that public accommodations with inaccessible websites can still comply with the ADA by providing an equal degree of access through alternative means (e.g. the telephone). • Every video that is on a public accommodation’s website has to be accessible to people with disabilities, even if it is not closely related to the public accommodation’s core business. DOJ said the universities have an obligation to make their “online programming” accessible. DOJ defined “online programming” to include free online videos and audio files that are not only courses or educational lectures but also “topics of general interest.” DOJ did say that the universities could try to prove that providing accessible videos is an “undue burden” or would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods and services they provide, but this would be a fact-intensive issue which would have to be resolved much later in the case. • A public accommodation has an obligation to ensure that the content of its videos is accessible to every person with a disability in the public at large, not just individuals who are customers or potential customers. For the universities, this means that the obligation goes beyond providing access for people who have some connection to them (e.g., students, potential students, etc.). We should point out that DOJ did not specifically state that access to online videos must be provided through closed captioning. Thus, it is at least conceivable that the videos could be made accessible in some other manner. However, as a practical matter, there are few other options for providing the deaf and hard of hearing access to audio content that is on a video and the NAD is demanding captioning in the lawsuits. In addition, DOJ did not say whether it expected all videos to be captioned before they are posted, or whether captioning (or some other means of access) can be provided after a deaf person makes a request. The Far Reaching Implications. Although DOJ articulated the above positions in the context of website videos, the principles underlying DOJ’s positions can be applied to everything on a website—not just videos. DOJ’s statements confirm what we always knew based on our ongoing work with the agency on website-related matters: DOJ expects public accommodations to make their websites accessible, even in the absence of even a proposed regulation that would provide public accommodations guidance, through the proper regulatory process, as to what the DOJ considers a legally-compliant “accessible website”. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jul 29 18:14:27 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 18:14:27 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] The ADA at 25: Disability rights and diversity, Microsoft on the Issues, July 23 2015 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Link: http://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2015/07/23/the-ada-at-25-disability-rights-and-diversity/ Text: The ADA at 25: Disability rights and diversity Posted July 23, 2015July 23, 2015 by Brad Smith- General Counsel & Executive Vice President for Legal and Corporate Affairs * * * * Today Microsoft joins communities around the country in honoring the 25th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act, signed into law on July 26, 1990. The anniversary provides an important opportunity to reflect on our shared commitment to ending discrimination and securing access, equality and independence for all Americans with disabilities. In the United States today nearly one in five Americans has a disability.[1] The ADA's reach therefore is hard to overstate. Individuals with disabilities are people of every race, creed and color in every segment of society. They are our friends, neighbors, colleagues, customers and family members. Often when we think about the ADA a quarter century after its passage, we tend to think of sign language interpreters at public events, closed captioning on television and Braille on elevators and ATMs. Or we may think of ramps, bus-lifts, curb-cuts and widened doors. While all of these are important, there is an additional vital element. At its core the ADA is not about the dimensions of doorways, but the individuals who can now pass through them. A vision for the ADA that focuses on people helps enfranchise so many who have been excluded for so long. It also enriches and opens our institutions to the very best and brightest talent our country has to offer. That is the power of diversity and why diversity efforts should include disability. To better understand how Microsoft's Department of Legal and Corporate Affairs could best support disability diversity in our own field, we commissioned a modest study to identify the most significant challenges facing people with disabilities in the legal profession and the profession's pipeline. While existing data sets vary, the BWB Solutions research that we commissioned confirms that despite the prevalence of disability in the general population, people with disabilities are among the most underrepresented in the legal field. Download the full report here. [Prevalence of PWD along Educational Pipeline] 1: "the percentage of people with disabilities along the educational pipeline declines from K through 12 (13%) to post-secondary (11%). The percentage of people with disabilities drops from post-secondary (11%) to law school (7.7%)." These initial results indicate this is not due solely to a lack of requisite education; substantial hurdles exist in obtaining employment after graduation. In 2014, 47 percent of people with disabilities with master's and professional degrees (including law degrees) were employed in the U.S., compared to 87 percent of people without disabilities. Surprisingly, the employment rate for people with disabilities with master's and professional degrees actually declined from 61 percent in 2009 to 47 percent in 2014, while the employment rate of people without disabilities with similar degrees was relatively stable over the same period. [Employment Rate for People with Master's and Professional Degrees] 3: "the employment to population ratio for people with masters and professional degrees. In 2009, 60.8% of people with disabilities were employed, compared to 84.8% of people without disabilities. In 2010, 53.9% of people with disabilities were employed, compared to 84.2% of people without disabilities. In 2011, 48.3% of people with disabilities were employed, compared to 84.9% of people without disabilities. In 2012, 48.3% of people with disabilities were employed, compared to 85.6% of people without disabilities. In 2013, 54.9% of people with disabilities were employed, compared to 85.1% of people without disabilities. In 2014, 47.3% of people with disabilities were employed, compared to 85.7% of people without disabilities." One reason for this disparity may be outdated and erroneous perceptions. Employers perceive challenges associated with hiring people with disabilities, including higher health care costs, inability to complete all tasks and impact on customer and co-workers. However, research indicates none of these is a significant issue, even though the bias remains. While we hope that this study and others will provide helpful insights in achieving greater inclusion of those with disabilities in the legal field, we should not wait to take action. As lawyers, we often avoid difficult topics until we are certain we know the precise answers or have mastered the issues. However, we can't fully understand the issues, let alone meaningful answers or solutions, if we don't work together. We can start by engaging in an open dialogue about disability diversity, sharing our challenges, practices and ideas. Within LCA, we facilitate these discussions through our Legal Diversity and Inclusion team, which sponsors speakers, events and research. And because many of the fundamental challenges that face people are no different than those facing other diverse colleagues, we can start on our individual paths to disability diversity simply by beginning with the same principles and values that guide our broader legal diversity efforts - creating a safe place where people can bring their true selves to work, where people feel valued and empowered to do their very best, and where their employers, clients and colleagues appreciate their character, promise, and potential. [1] Americans with Disabilities: 2010 - U.S. Census Bureau (https://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/p70-131.pdf), published July 25, 2012. About the Author Brad Smith General Counsel & Executive Vice President for Legal and Corporate Affairs Brad Smith is Microsoft's General Counsel and Executive Vice President of Legal and Corporate Affairs. He leads the company's Department of Legal and Corporate Affairs (LCA), which has approximately 1,100 employees located in 55 countries. Mr. Smith is responsible for the company's legal work, its intellectual property portfolio and patent licensing business as well as its government affairs and philanthropic work. He also serves as Microsoft's corporate secretary and its chief compliance officer. Mr. Smith currently co-chairs the board of directors of Kids in Need of Defense (KIND) and is the chair-elect of the Leadership Council on Legal Diversity. In Washington state, Mr. Smith has served as chair of the Washington Roundtable, a leading Washington state-based business organization, and he has advanced several statewide education initiatives. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.png Type: image/png Size: 42924 bytes Desc: image005.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.png Type: image/png Size: 56495 bytes Desc: image006.png URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jul 29 18:21:58 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 18:21:58 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: DOJ Jobs In-Reply-To: References: <87EAD4112E1ABA49BCA9055BEA384CBF3A6BF9BF@DPRC-EXCH-P05.JCONMAIL.doj.gov> Message-ID: From: Jobs [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia via Jobs Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 10:21 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Cc: Maurer, Patricia Subject: [Jobs] FW: DOJ Jobs From: Jobs, CRT (CRT) [mailto:CRT.Jobs at usdoj.gov] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 12:30 PM Subject: DOJ Jobs The Civil Rights Division (Division) would like to thank each of you for participating in our efforts to increase outreach to individuals interested in working for the Division. The Division hopes to attract a broad and diverse pool of qualified applicants, and, to that end, encourages you to forward this information to any qualified applicants, including qualified applicants with disabilities, who may be interested in working for the Division. For your convenience, all current Division job announcements that are open to the public are listed below. Please also remind members of your organization that all job announcements can always be found on the Division's homepage, http://www.justice.gov/crt/employment. In addition, if you know of other organizations that might want to receive our job announcements, please let them know the process is very simple. They just need to send an email to CRT.Jobs at usdoj.gov. There are no elaborate forms to fill out - just an email indicating that the organization wishes to receive future job listings and the e-mail address for us to contact them. Please do not hesitate to let us know if you have suggestions on how we can improve our outreach efforts. The chart below includes the Civil Rights Division job opportunities currently available to the public. Remarks Position Salary Closing Date NEW Trial Attorney Disability Rights Section GS-905-13/15 ($90,823 to $158,700 per year) 7/31/15 NEW Deputy Chief (Supervisory Trial Attorney) Special Litigation Section GS-905-15 ($126,245 to $158,700 per year) 8/04/15 Trial Attorney Appellate Section GS-905-12/15 ($76,378 to $158,700 per year) 8/6/15 NEW Deputy Chief (Supervisory Trial Attorney) Disability Rights Section GS-905-15 ($126,245 to $158,700 per year) 8/18/15 Student Volunteers (Division-wide) N/A (Volunteer) See Description Individuals interested in applying for these positions should comply with the application procedures and closing dates in the vacancy announcement. The Division does not accept unsolicited resumes or applications (i.e., those not submitted in response to a particular vacancy announcement). If you need more information about a specific Civil Rights Division vacancy, please call the Human Resources Office, Team 1 on (202) 514-3934. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jul 29 18:22:47 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 18:22:47 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Job Opportunity- Staff Attorney - Please Post and Forward In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Jobs [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia via Jobs Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:33 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Cc: Maurer, Patricia Subject: [Jobs] FW: Job Opportunity- Staff Attorney - Please Post and Forward From: Ackha Romulus [mailto:hrintern3 at aclu.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 4:56 PM To: Maurer, Patricia Subject: Job Opportunity- Staff Attorney - Please Post and Forward CAREER OPPORTUNITY Staff Attorney [RFP-17] American Civil Liberties Union Foundation Reproductive Freedom Project, NY For nearly 100 years, the ACLU has been our nation’s guardian of liberty, working in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Whether it’s ending mass incarceration, achieving full equality for the LGBT community, establishing new privacy protections for our digital age, or preserving the right to vote or the right to have an abortion, the ACLU takes up the toughest civil liberties cases and issues to defend all people from government abuse and overreach. With more than a million members, activists, and supporters, the ACLU is a nationwide organization that fights tirelessly in all 50 states, Puerto Rico, and Washington, D.C., for the principle that every individual’s rights must be protected equally under the law, regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, disability or national origin. OVERVIEW The ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project’s mission is to secure a world that respects and supports everyone’s right to form intimate relationships and to decide whether and when to have a child. Through litigation, advocacy, and public education, the Project strives to ensure that the freedoms and opportunities enjoyed by some become the freedoms and opportunities enjoyed by all. The ACLU is particularly committed to ensuring that individuals’ reproductive rights are not compromised because of their race, youth, or economic status, and believes that reproductive rights work must be informed by broader racial and social justice considerations. For more than three decades, the ACLU has participated in nearly every reproductive rights case before the Supreme Court and in significant cases in federal and state courts too numerous to count, including challenges to abortion bans; TRAP laws; bans on insurance coverage of abortion; and mandatory ultrasound and forced delay laws. The ACLU is also a leader in the fight to prevent religion from being used as an excuse to deny reproductive health services and to discriminate against women and LGBT people. The Reproductive Freedom Project is unique among reproductive rights organizations in that it works with the ACLU’s nationwide network of affiliates as well as other attorneys in the organization who specialize in other civil liberties areas, including free speech, racial justice, and LGBT rights. In addition, the Reproductive Freedom Project is part of the ACLU’s Center for Liberty, which is dedicated to the principle that we are all entitled to determine the course of our lives based on who we are and what we believe free from unreasonable government constraint and baseless stereotypes. The Center for Liberty encompasses the ACLU’s work on reproductive rights, women’s rights, LGBT issues, and freedom of religion and belief. ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES Litigate constitutional and statutory cases on a wide range of reproductive rights related issues in the trial and appellate courts. Conduct legal research and write legal memoranda. Analyze legislation for potential litigation. Develop new cases and identify and work with potential plaintiffs and witnesses. Work with and advise ACLU state affiliates on reproductive rights litigation, legislation, and advocacy. Work closely with legal and non-legal program staff, particularly legislative, communications, and advocacy staff members to advance reproductive rights. Develop relationships with other advocates, lawyers, and potential clients. Engage in public speaking, including to the media, at conferences, and other speaking engagements. Supervise administrative assistants, legal fellows, and law students. Travel as required for litigation, conferences, and client development. EXPERIENCE AND QUALIFICATIONS J.D. degree and admission to the bar of at least one state. If not admitted in NY, must be willing to become admitted to NY bar. A minimum of two years of legal experience is required. Familiarity with reproductive rights and other civil liberties issues is desirable; commitment to those issues is essential. Superior analytic skills and legal research and writing skills are required. Demonstrated ability to write and to speak clearly and persuasively are essential. Self-motivated, diligent, and able to meet strict deadlines while under pressure. Ability to work with a wide range of people and foster a team environment. Supervisory experience including the ability to demonstrate professionalism and provide constructive feedback is required. COMPENSATION The ACLU offers a generous compensation and benefits package, commensurate with experience and within the parameters of the ACLU compensation scale. HOW TO APPLY Interested persons should submit a cover letter (with salary requirements), resume, a legal writing sample, and three references, to: hrjobsRFP at aclu.org - Reference [RFP-17/ACLU-INCL 35] in the subject line. Please note that this is not the general ACLU applicant email address. This email address is specific to Reproductive Freedom Project postings. In order to ensure your application is received, please make certain it is sent to the correct e-mail address. You can expect to receive an automatic response that acknowledges the submission of application materials. Please indicate where you learned of this career opportunity. Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. This job description provides a general but not comprehensive list of the essential responsibilities and qualifications required. It does not represent a contract of employment. The ACLU reserves the right to change the description and/or posting at any time without advance notice. The ACLU is an equal opportunity employer. We value a diverse workforce and an inclusive culture. The ACLU encourages applications from all qualified individuals without regard to race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, national origin, marital status, citizenship, disability, and veteran status. The ACLU undertakes affirmative action strategies in its recruitment and employment efforts to assure that persons with disabilities have full opportunities for employment in all positions. We encourage applicants with disabilities who may need accommodations in the application process to contact:hrjobsincl at aclu.org. Correspondence sent to this email address that is not related to requests for accommodations will not be reviewed. Applicants should follow the instructions above regarding how to apply. The ACLU comprises two separate corporate entities, the American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU Foundation. Both the American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU Foundation are national organizations with the same overall mission, and share office space and employees. The ACLU has two separate corporate entities in order to do a broad range of work to protect civil liberties. This job posting refers collectively to the two organizations under the name “ACLU.” -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jul 29 18:23:10 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 18:23:10 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [Jobs] FW: Internship Opportunity - Fall 2015 Legal Internship, Women's Rights Project - Please Post and Forward In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Jobs [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia via Jobs Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:33 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Cc: Maurer, Patricia Subject: [Jobs] FW: Internship Opportunity - Fall 2015 Legal Internship, Women's Rights Project - Please Post and Forward From: Ackha Romulus [mailto:hrintern3 at aclu.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 5:01 PM To: Maurer, Patricia Subject: Internship Opportunity - Fall 2015 Legal Internship, Women's Rights Project - Please Post and Forward Fall 2015 LEGAL INTERNSHIP OPPORTUNITY NOTICE TO LAW STUDENTS American Civil Liberties Union Foundation Women’s Rights Project, NY For nearly 100 years, the ACLU has been our nation’s guardian of liberty, working in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Whether it’s ending mass incarceration, achieving full equality for the LGBT community, establishing new privacy protections for our digital age, or preserving the right to vote or the right to have an abortion, the ACLU takes up the toughest civil liberties cases and issues to defend all people from government abuse and overreach. With more than a million members, activists, and supporters, the ACLU is a nationwide organization that fights tirelessly in all 50 states, Puerto Rico, and Washington, D.C., for the principle that every individual’s rights must be protected equally under the law, regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, disability or national origin. The Women’s Rights Project of the ACLU’s National Office in New York City seeks legal interns for the Fall of 2015. A stipend is available for those students who do not receive outside funding and/or course credit. Arrangements can also be made with the student’s law school for work/study stipends or course credit. OVERVIEW The Women’s Rights Project is part of the ACLU’s Center for Liberty, which is dedicated to the principle that we are all entitled to determine the course of our lives based on who we are and what we believe, free from unreasonable government constraint and baseless stereotypes. The Center for Liberty encompasses the ACLU’s work on women’s rights, reproductive freedom, LGBT rights and the rights of people living with HIV, and freedom of religion and belief. Founded in 1972 by Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the Women's Rights Project (WRP) has been a leader in the legal battles to ensure women’s full equality in American society. WRP is dedicated to the advancement of the rights and interests of women and works to implement ACLU policy in the area of gender discrimination. Through litigation, advocacy, and public education, WRP pushes for change and systemic reform in those institutions that perpetuate discrimination against women. WRP has been an active participant in virtually all of the major gender discrimination litigation in the Supreme Court and in significant communications and public education efforts on behalf of women and girls. WRP focuses on women’s rights in the following priority areas: employment, education, and violence against women. INTERNSHIP OVERVIEW The internship is part-time and p requires a 12-16 week commitment with a flexible weekly schedule of 10-15 hours. Weekly hours are negotiable. ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES Interns will have the opportunity to gain valuable experience by working alongside the Women’s Rights Project team and will assist in all aspects of litigation. Interns will gain experience by working on the following: * Conducting legal and policy research. * Drafting memoranda, affidavits and briefs. * Researching prospects for new litigation, including both factual and legal claims. * Assisting with researching or drafting materials for public education. * Other projects as assigned. DESIRED EXPERIENCE AND QUALIFICATIONS This legal internship is open to law students who have completed their first year. * Excellent research, writing and communication skills. * Internet and legal database research skills. * Demonstrated initiative to see projects through to completion. * A strong interest and commitment to social justice, women’s rights, civil rights and civil liberties. HOW TO APPLY Applicants should submit a letter of interest, a resume, the names and telephone numbers of three references, an unofficial transcript, and a legal writing sample of no more than ten pages. If possible, please submit materials as a single PDF, with the first and last names in the file name. Please use the cover letter to list all documents enclosed as part of the application. Materials should be emailed to hrjobsWRP at aclu.org, with WRP Fall 2015 Legal Internship in the subject line. Applications will be reviewed on a rolling basis; thus early application is advised. Applications will be accepted until all positions are filled, and should in any event be submitted no later than September 8, 2015. Please indicate in your cover letter where you found this job posting. This job description provides a general but not comprehensive list of the essential responsibilities and qualifications required. It does not represent a contract of employment. The ACLU reserves the right to change the description and/or posting at any time without advance notice. The ACLU is an equal opportunity employer. We value a diverse workforce and an inclusive culture. The ACLU encourages applications from all qualified individuals without regard to race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, national origin, marital status, citizenship, disability, and veteran status. The ACLU undertakes affirmative action strategies in its recruitment and employment efforts to assure that persons with disabilities have full opportunities for employment in all positions. We encourage applicants with disabilities who may need accommodations in the application process to contact:hrjobsincl at aclu.org. Correspondence sent to this email address that is not related to requests for accommodations will not be reviewed. Applicants should follow the instructions above regarding how to apply. The ACLU comprises two separate corporate entities, the American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU Foundation. Both the American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU Foundation are national organizations with the same overall mission, and share office space and employees. The ACLU has two separate corporate entities in order to do a broad range of work to protect civil liberties. This job posting refers collectively to the two organizations under the name “ACLU.” -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jul 29 18:33:33 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 18:33:33 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ZOOM TEXT & WINDOW-EYES? In-Reply-To: <004301d0c8b4$7b844980$728cdc80$@com> References: <004301d0c8b4$7b844980$728cdc80$@com> Message-ID: Thanks for the info - still not sure what the county is doing with my stuff (while I have to get my work done, of course), but we will see... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:38 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: [blindlaw] ZOOM TEXT & WINDOW-EYES? Dear All: I think it was Susie who had enquired about ZoomText sometime back? In any case, The following statement from AI Squared might be helpful for evaluation purposes if nothing else? In 2015, we will be releasing a product called ZoomText Fusion. This product will combine the power of ZoomText and Window-Eyes in a single product. ZoomText Fusion is specifically designed for people who have progressive eye conditions or are in transition from low vision to blindness. ZoomText Fusion includes all of the power of ZoomText Magnifier, ZoomText Magnifier/Reader, as well as complete and full screen reading into one, single, integrated product. More info coming soon. All the Best, Jeremy Jeremy Curry Director of Product Management Ai Squared, Inc. Phone: (802) 362-3612 Email: jcurry at aisquared.com Web: www.aisquared.com Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jul 30 16:56:56 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 16:56:56 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [Jobs] FW: Job Opening - Legal Administrative Assistant- Please Post and Forward In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Jobs [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia via Jobs Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 8:23 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Cc: Maurer, Patricia Subject: [Jobs] FW: Job Opening - Legal Administrative Assistant- Please Post and Forward From: Achka Romulus [mailto:hrintern3 at aclu.org] Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 11:10 AM To: Maurer, Patricia Subject: Job Opening - Legal Administrative Assistant- Please Post and Forward CAREER OPPORTUNITY Legal Administrative Assistant [SPT-03] American Civil Liberties Union Foundation Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project (New York) For nearly 100 years, the ACLU has been our nation’s guardian of liberty, working in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Whether it’s ending mass incarceration, achieving full equality for the LGBT community, establishing new privacy protections for our digital age, or preserving the right to vote or the right to have an abortion, the ACLU takes up the toughest civil liberties cases and issues to defend all people from government abuse and overreach. With more than a million members, activists, and supporters, the ACLU is a nationwide organization that fights tirelessly in all 50 states, Puerto Rico, and Washington, D.C., for the principle that every individual’s rights must be protected equally under the law, regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, disability or national origin. The Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project (SPT) of the ACLU’S National Office in New York City seeks a Legal Administrative Assistant. The Legal Administrative Assistant will be a core member of the SPT team, will attend regular staff meetings, and will have the opportunity to learn about legal issues relating to speech, privacy, and technology. OVERVIEW The Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project is part of the ACLU’s Center for Democracy, which works to strengthen democratic institutions and values, including the values of government transparency and accountability, and to reinforce the United States’ commitment to human rights and the rule of law. The Center for Democracy includes—in addition to the Speech, Privacy and Technology Project—the Human Rights Project and the National Security Project, and also works closely with staff from the ACLU’s Communications Department, Affiliate Support and Advocacy Department, and Washington Legislative Office. The Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project is dedicated to protecting and expanding the First Amendment freedoms of expression, association, and inquiry; expanding the right to privacy and increasing the control that individuals have over their personal information; and ensuring that civil liberties are enhanced rather than compromised by new advances in science and technology. The Project is currently litigating cases and conducting other advocacy efforts on a variety of issues, including political protest, freedom of expression online, privacy of electronic information, journalists’ rights, scientific freedom, and openness in the courts. ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES * Maintain and organize professional and user-friendly office filing system. * Schedule meetings and conference calls, and prepare relevant materials. * Answer telephones, screen calls, and take messages. * Fax, copy, mail and complete other general administrative duties as assigned. * Handle travel arrangements. * Collect, analyze, and organize legal, factual, social science and other non-legal research for use in litigation documents and policy presentations; conduct searches on internal and external document databases and systems, cull relevant information from a variety of resources such as newspapers, magazines, libraries, case documents and trade associations. * Handle special projects and other duties as assigned. EXPERIENCE AND QUALIFICATIONS * Bachelor’s degree or 2 years related administrative experience is preferred. * Must have excellent organizational skills and be detail-oriented. * Proficiency in Microsoft Office Suite (i.e. Word, Excel, Outlook, etc.) and have experience with Internet research. * Excellent research and writing skills. * Must take initiative, be highly organized and detail-oriented, and possess strong interpersonal and time-management skills. * Ability to work independently as well as within a team. * Basic knowledge of Access, Excel, WordPerfect and is preferred. * A commitment to assisting the ACLU in its mission to defend civil rights and civil liberties. * A demonstrated interest in human rights and civil liberties issues relating to free speech, privacy and technology. COMPENSATION Salary for this position is $45,986. Generous benefit package provided. HOW TO APPLY Please submit a letter of interest, a current resume, the names and telephone numbers of two references, and a writing sample (1-2 pages) to hrjobsSPT at aclu.org. Reference [SPT-03/ACLU-INCL 35] in the subject line. Please indicate in your cover letter where you learned of this career opportunity. Please note that this is not the general ACLU applicant email address. This email address is specific to SPT postings. In order to ensure your application is received please make certain it is sent to the correct e-mail address. Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. This job description provides a general but not comprehensive list of the essential responsibilities and qualifications required. It does not represent a contract of employment. The ACLU reserves the right to change the description and/or posting at any time without advance notice. The ACLU is an equal opportunity employer. We value a diverse workforce and an inclusive culture. The ACLU encourages applications from all qualified individuals without regard to race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, national origin, marital status, citizenship, disability, and veteran status. The ACLU undertakes affirmative action strategies in its recruitment and employment efforts to assure that persons with disabilities have full opportunities for employment in all positions. We encourage applicants with disabilities who may need accommodations in the application process to contact:hrjobsincl at aclu.org. Correspondence sent to this email address that is not related to requests for accommodations will not be reviewed. Applicants should follow the instructions above regarding how to apply. The ACLU comprises two separate corporate entities, the American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU Foundation. Both the American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU Foundation are national organizations with the same overall mission, and share office space and employees. The ACLU has two separate corporate entities in order to do a broad range of work to protect civil liberties. This job posting refers collectively to the two organizations under the name “ACLU.” -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jul 30 21:43:47 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 21:43:47 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] King County Dispute Resolution Center (Seattle) Job Opportunity Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: From: Dispute Resolution Center of King County > Date: July 28, 2015 at 1:22:01 PM PDT Subject: KCDRC Job Opportunity Reply-To: Dispute Resolution Center of King County > [Image removed by sender.] Job Opportunity: Training Manager The Dispute Resolution Center of King County is seeking applicants for a full-time Training Manager position. Our long-time Training Director, Sue Ann Allen, is retiring later this year after almost 30 years of service. The Training Manager will be responsible for managing and supervising the agency’s training activities including Basic Mediation Training, Practicum, customized skills trainings for interested communities and organizations, as well as the professional development needs of DRC staff. This individual will report to the Executive Director and will work closely with other staff and a cadre of 20 contract trainers and 60 contract coaches. Click here for a full job description and how to apply. Position open until filled. Interviews will begin mid-August, 2015. Preferred start date: mid- to late-September 2015. Benefits include medical and dental insurance; paid holidays, sick leave and annual leave; and a tax-deferred, SIMPLE IRA retirement plan with employer match. Copyright © 2015 Dispute Resolution Center of King County, All rights reserved. Our mailing address is: 4649 Sunnyside Ave. N, #520, Seattle, WA 98103 unsubscribe from this list update subscription preferences -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4550 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: