[blindlaw] Bluebook

Tue Jul 21 19:47:04 UTC 2015

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for contributing to this wonderful discussion.  I didn't expect to
receive so much meaningful feedback.  I find Dr.  Jernigan's discourse on
independence very compelling, and I will take all your suggestions into
consideration.

Warm Regards,

Michal

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly
via blindlaw
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 9:59 AM
To: Scott C. LaBarre <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>; 'Blind Law Mailing List'
<blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Susan Kelly <Susan.Kelly at pima.gov>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook

Like Scott, I have found this intriguing.  I come at it from a slightly
different background, in that I was still able to read visually, in
controlled spurts, while I was in law school and the first years of
practice.  Even as my sight declined, I still found ways to do everything
independently, even though it took longer and longer hours - beyond that
even normal for new lawyers - to accomplish.  Once I needed the computer to
be able to access information, the real need for changes in my ability to
ask for assistance began, because as Scott points out, many things still
will not be accessible.  The ADA and companion laws should prevent that, but
the reality is that you may find yourself in an agency or firm that utilizes
an inaccessible file management program, an inaccessible
time/attendance/benefits program, etc.  While you should definitely register
the proper legal complaints about these things, at the end of the day, your
work still has to be done for the benefit of the client.
  Sometimes that will mean that you will have to rely on a sighted assistant
or co-worker.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C.
LaBarre via blindlaw
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:58 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
Cc: Scott C. LaBarre
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook

Greetings everyone, I have been following this thread with interest.  I
graduated law school in 1993 and thus confronted a different reality than
those going through in this age.  I absolutely had to rely on the use of a
reader because we were using dos based computers that had dial up
connections with the brand new internet.  The vast majority of material was
available only in print and even today, I suspect that the majority is still
only available initially in hard copy print.  The difference is, of course,
that almost everything is born digital and thus there is a path to gaining
access, either through rendering the digital material accessible or
converting it into something accessible.

In any event, for me, this conversation has been interesting because
indicates how much times have changed.  When I was a student, it went
without saying that every blind student would require the use of a reader
and for a law student heavy use of same.  Now, the trend is for blind
students to avoid  readers, almost at all cost.

In my practice, I largely rely on gaining access through digital means, but
I still need my assistant to do a significant amount of reading.  If I get
an inaccessible electronic document or, believe it or not, get something in
the mail that is only hard copy, I need her to read that document to me and
then I identify the strategy I need to employ from there.  If it is
something that I will need again or it is something that could be important
in one of my cases, I usually have her scan the document and convert it into
an accessible text.  Some times, if the document is not all that important
and I have gained whatever information from it I need, I will have her
dispose of it.  It is still also true that in terms of scanning for
something quicly, it is often faster for me to have my assistant hunt for
something and then give me the info.  The bottom line is that I do not
believe I could practice law without my assistant acting as a reader on a
rather frequent basis.  It is also true  to say that in the last en years,
the amount of time that she actually has to read is gone down substantially.

So, I pretty much agree with all the comments made.  We should strive to be
as independent as possible and use tools that allow us to do so  .  However,
independence is more of a mental state  and philosophy than usage of
particular tools.  Derek is right to recommend Dr. Jernigan's speech, the
Nature of Independence, which I was fortunate enough to hear in person in
1993.  I believe Derek referred everyone to the text link to the speech, but
if you get a chance, watch the video or listen to the audio.  Dr. Jernigan
had a masterful form of delivery that we rarely encounter these days.  I
also agree that we should take all necessary measures to become employed.
Although the ADA has opened up many doors in the last 25 years, it has
barely moved the needle on employment, and that is something we must
continue to combat in a variety of ways.

As for endeavoring to get on law review or a law journal etc, those efforts
certainly help to distinguish you.  For those who are not fortunate to get
on law review or who cannot maintain a high GPA, there is still hope.  After
a few years of practice, no one really cares whether you were on law review
or what your GPA might have been.  It then centers on the experience you
have gained.  Consequently, I think that one of the most critical things you
can do is gain practical experience while in law school either through
internships, clerkships, clinics,and the like.

Originally, we were going to have a panel at this year's NABL's meeting
about how blind lawyers practice differently, especially the differeing
approachs based on when one graduated from law school.  We couldn't fit that
in this year but it will be a high priority for our meeting next year.  I
want to thank everyone for their comments  on this thread and thank you for
an interesting conversation which allowed me to reflect a bit on the good
old days when I was young and back in law school.

Best,
Scott    

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek
Manners via blindlaw
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:54 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Derek Manners; Stewart, Christopher K
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bluebook

Hey Chris, I'd actually disagree with your philosophical view. Here's why.
Sometimes it is truly more efficient and therefore independent for different
folks to do things different ways. 

I'd encourage you to read this if you haven't already. 

https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/convent/addres93.htm

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw
<blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Laura:
> 
> For the record, all I gathered from your email was satisfaction that 
> another blind person is taking the legal field by storm. I have no 
> interest in playing a game of "show me yours I'll show you mine" with 
> anyone. Nor did I mean to suggest that your methods are somehow less 
> viable than mine and Derek's.
> 
> Moreover, I clearly misunderstood the nature of your use of a reader.
> If you used a sighted person only to get you started, and that worked, 
> more power to you. My personal view is that anything that I can do 
> myself, I should do myself. That is also in keeping with the 
> organization who sponsors this list. However, the pragmatist in me 
> knows that, at the end of the day, the goal should be employment and 
> living the life we want. Whatever leads to this conclusion, in my 
> opinion, is more or less the right way, and a foolish consistency is 
> the hobgoblin of little minds.
> 
> Finally, Michal, of course life will go on just fine if you don't try 
> for or make law review. But, we would be silly to ignore the 
> employment disadvantages that are realities of blindness today.
> Writing on to your law review and maintaining good standing on the 
> journal is an objective means of prospectively assuaging some 
> employer's initial doubts, and many employers prefer journal 
> experience. Do with that information what you will, and I wish you a 
> ton of success in law school.
> 
> Best,
> Chris
> 
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