From sy.hoekstra at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 03:55:05 2015 From: sy.hoekstra at gmail.com (Sy Hoekstra) Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 23:55:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] West Law Next In-Reply-To: <1F78C78B-F7B3-4ED6-9D45-4467DF5D48E2@gmail.com> References: <061201d09add$785969c0$690c3d40$@timeldermusic.com> <1F78C78B-F7B3-4ED6-9D45-4467DF5D48E2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <013d01d09c1e$bf366770$3da33650$@gmail.com> I've never had that problem using JAWS. There are reference attorneys who work for Westlaw who will do specific training sessions for screen reader users. During my 1L year, I probably had 4 or 5 free sessions with one of them. Just call the reference attorney line or talk to your Westlaw rep to find out how to contact them. It definitely helps to get someone to tour you around a new program before declaring it inaccessible. That said, I am not sure the attorney I spoke to had ever trained anyone who was not using JAWS. I was a Window Eyes user at the time, and she had never heard of it. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody J. Davis via blindlaw Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 12:33 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Cody J. Davis Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Law Next Hi everyone, In my experience, as a law student and current intern, I have found WestLaw Next to be much more accessible than Lexis, HeinOnline, FastCase, etc. That said, I never had to use WestLaw classic because I was able to access Westlaw Next before it’s official release. One thing I have noticed that is very frustrating with WestLaw next is that many of the pop-up boxes that appear when trying to download a case, email a case, or give WestLaw feedback are not recognized by my screen reader. I should note I am using VoiceOver, not JAWS.I have a few questions for you all: 1. Has anyone else experienced problems with the pop-up boxes in WestLaw Next? 2. Was this a problem in WestLaw Classic? 3. Does anyone have reason to believe this is a VoiceOver specific problem. My law school’s librarian, my law school’s WestLaw rep, and I have all contacted WestLaw with this problem but they have not been helpful at all. Thanks, Cody J. Davis > On May 30, 2015, at 11:29 AM, Dan Beitz via blindlaw wrote: > > I agree, and I will contact them and let them know. West law classic was allot cleaner and simpler to use. I appreciate everyone's help though; I am learning west law next. > > > > > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > > www.wiennergould.com > > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached > to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are > not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email > to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to > this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning > us at (248) 841-9400. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Elder [mailto:tim at timeldermusic.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 9:35 AM > To: Dan Beitz; 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Scott C. LaBarre > Subject: RE: [blindlaw] West Law Next > > Hi all, > > Westlaw Next is somewhat usable, but it lacks accessibility on many features and is not as efficient to navigate as Classic. I've complained to West about the accessibility of its myaccount administrative website for those who pay bills and do other admin functions for a Westlaw account. Others should express concern to West about the accessibility of Next. It is not > 508 compliant and certain items should be mended now that we are being forced to migrate. > > Regards, > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Beitz [mailto:dbeitz at wiennergould.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 1:49 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] West Law Next > > Anyone using Westlaw next with jaws successfully? They are turning off Westlaw classic, and Westlaw next is driving me crazy. > > > [wg logo] > > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > > www.wiennergould.com > > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jun 1 18:28:51 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 13:28:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Washington State DOT Director, Office of Equal Opportunity job announcement Message-ID: <04F1893C93758F4AA7CB436BB2675066014EB25B01F4@EDUPTCEXMB02.ed.gov> Link: http://agency.governmentjobs.com/washington/default.cfm?action=viewJob&jobID=1138824&hit_count=yes&headerFooter=1&promo=0&transfer=0&WDDXJobSearchParams=%3CwddxPacket%20version%3D%271%2E0%27%3E%3Cheader%2F%3E%3Cdata%3E%3Cstruct%3E%3Cvar%20name%3D%27CATEGORYID%27%3E%3Cstring%3E%2D1%3C%2Fstring%3E%3C%2Fvar%3E%3Cvar%20name%3D%27PROMOTIONALJOBS%27%3E%3Cstring%3E0%3C%2Fstring%3E%3C%2Fvar%3E%3Cvar%20name%3D%27TRANSFER%27%3E%3Cstring%3E0%3C%2Fstring%3E%3C%2Fvar%3E%3Cvar%20name%3D%27FIND%5FKEYWORD%27%3E%3Cstring%3EAttorney%3C%2Fstring%3E%3C%2Fvar%3E%3C%2Fstruct%3E%3C%2Fdata%3E%3C%2FwddxPacket%3E Text: Job Title: Director, Office of Equal Opportunity Opening Date/Time: Mon. 05/04/15 12:00 AM Pacific Time Closing Date/Time: Wed. 06/10/15 11:59 PM Pacific Time Salary: $88,908.00 - $108,480.00 Annually Job Type: Exempt Location: Thurston County - Olympia, Washington Department: Dept. of Transportation Print Job Information Apply Description Benefits Supplemental Questions [cid:image003.jpg at 01D09C52.70F77020] The Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) is currently searching for a Director, Office of Equal Opportunity. Reporting to the Secretary of Transportation, with a functional reporting relationship to the Deputy Secretary, this position provides statewide direction of agency programs relating to WSDOT's external civil rights programs. These programs, as required by state and/or federal laws or regulations, include Disadvantaged Business Enterprises (DBE), DBE Supportive Services, Minority and Women's Business Enterprises (M/WBE), Small Business Enterprises (SBE), On the Job Training (OJT) Supportive Services, Training Special Provisions (TSP), Equal Employment Opportunity Contract Compliance, On the Job Training Contract Compliance, Title VI, Environmental Justice, Limited English Proficiency (LEP) and Tribal Employment Rights Ordinances (TERO) and Special Emphasis Programs such as the Summer Transportation Internship Program for Diverse Groups (STIPDG) and Construction Career Days (CCDs). This position is also responsible for overseeing agency compliance with Titles II and III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. The Director provides executive-level consultation and external civil rights service support to WSDOT managers statewide and to local agencies, as well as transportation planning organizations concerning WSDOT's external civil rights programs. He or she ensures approval and appropriate oversight of the United States Department of Transportation's (USDOT) Unified Certification Program (UCP) for the State of Washington's Disadvantaged Business Enterprise Program administered on behalf of WSDOT by the Washington State Office of Minority and Women's Business Enterprises (OMWBE). As the appointing authority for the Office of Equal Opportunity (OEO) and a member of the Executive Management Team for WSDOT, the Director provides strategic guidance on external civil rights related policy-making, budgeting, staffing and resource allocation for the agency including the Washington State Ferries Division. He or she provides management direction to the OEO management team regarding the scope of the office's responsibilities, resources, goals and objectives. This management responsibility includes assessing the agency's need to develop new programs or methods to accomplish department objectives and federal compliance requirements related to external civil rights programs. The Director represents WSDOT on a national level on several transportation civil rights related boards and committees which involve policy-making and developing implementation standards for all state transportation agencies across the country. This position will perform the following work: * Ensure proper overall administration including the development, implementation, and monitoring of all WSDOT external civil rights programs statewide, including the Washington State Ferries System. * Update the Secretary of Transportation, Deputy Secretary, WSDOT Executive Management Team and others on all external civil rights issues/concerns/activities affecting the agency. * In collaboration with other departmental divisions, set the strategic direction for all OEO programs needed to achieve regulatory compliance and goals established for the various OEO programs. This includes developing and approving strategic plans, tactical activities, identifying resources and providing oversight in the evaluation of performance. * Provide oversight in the development, establishment and maintenance of policies, initiatives, and programs that meet state and federal regulations and funding requirements. * Monitor WSDOT's compliance with external civil rights programs, report to Secretary of Transportation on compliance status, work to resolve issues of noncompliance and implement "best practices" for effective policies and program implementation. * Participate in the development and implementation of national transportation civil rights policies. * Balance resources with changing program requirements and priorities to meet WSDOT's and OEO's mission. * Integrate OEO program policies into all segments of WSDOT business activities throughout the state to ensure all segments of the population, including affected groups such as minorities, women, disabled persons, and veterans receive equal opportunity in programs and services. * Direct statewide external civil rights programs required to meet various compliance requirements and federal laws in order for WSDOT, local governments and transportation planning organizations to receive federal financial assistance. * Lead OEO's efforts working with several WSDOT program areas (e.g. Human Resources, Ferries, Aviation, Planning, Design, Construction, Consultant Services, Highways and Local Programs and Public Transportation as well as regional Administrative Officers and EEO Officers to ensure statewide agency external civil rights policy development and compliance. * Ensure adherence to legal guidance provided by the Attorney General's Office as well as USDOT transportation modes (Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Transit Administration, and Federal Highway Administration), concerning all of the WSDOT external civil rights programs. * Serve as the DBE and Title VI liaison officer for the agency as designated by the Secretary of Transportation. * Serve as the WSDOT representative on both the Western Association of State Highway Transportation Officials (WASHTO) and American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials (AASHTO) Civil Rights Subcommittees, which assist in the development of external civil rights program policy development for state DOTs. * Co-chair the agency's DBE Advisory Group and serve on the Office of Minority and Women Enterprises disadvantaged business enterprise Certification Appeal Committee. >From the hiring authority's perspective, viable and competitive candidates should meet or exceed many of these desirable qualifications: * Substantive executive-level management experience preferably in a public sector or non-profit venue, including managing other managers. * In-depth knowledge and application of advanced management principles and skills to include long-term strategic thinking and planning, the ability to achieve long range goals through carefully selected actions and skills in balancing competing priorities with limited resources. * Effective manager with experience in using performance indicators to assess staff performance. * Hands-on leadership skills including the ability to coach, mentor, train and motivate staff as well as build trust amongst the staff and those they serve. * Highly developed negotiation and mediation skills coupled with ability to appropriately apply state and federal external civil rights laws, regulations, guidelines and contract provisions. * Creative problem solver. * Ability to assess legal processes and considerations in civil rights related contract monitoring and investigation of Title VI discrimination complaints. * Knowledge of specific civil rights programs necessary to participate in the development of national transportation related civil rights policy making and ensure agency compliance at both the state and federal level. * Skilled communicator, both by speaking and in writing, to a variety of audiences. * Experience in dealing with politically sensitive issues. * Ability to market agency's efforts to improve WSDOT civil rights programs. * Ability to engage, coach and motivate staff and build trust with other offices that work with OEO. * Ability to interact with and demonstrate and gain the trust of various organizations and groups, including local agencies that operate under WSDOT's program. How to Apply: Applications for this recruitment will be accepted electronically. Please select the green apply button at the top of this announcement, you may need to set up an account profile. To be considered for this position, you will need to attach a resume and letter of interest to your electronic application. Your letter of interest should describe how your experience, training and education make you a viable and competitive candidate for this position. Application assessment will be ongoing and the hiring authority reserves the right to offer the position at any time during the recruitment process. It is to the applicant's advantage to apply as early as possible. Contact us: For inquiries about this position, please contact Ted Koska, Talent Acquisition and Development Manager at (360) 705-7509 or email to koskat at wsdot.wa.gov. Please reference recruitment number 2015-EMS-009. The Washington State Department of Transportation is an equal opportunity employer. Women, racial and ethnic minorities, persons of disability, persons over 40 years of age, and disabled and Vietnam era veterans are encouraged to apply. Persons with disabilities needing assistance in the application process, or those needing this job announcement in an alternative format may call the Talent Acquisition Unit, Office of Human Resources, at 360.705.6846 or email at jobinfo at wsdot.wa.gov. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 6650 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From edrizzutolaw at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 16:11:59 2015 From: edrizzutolaw at gmail.com (Ed Rizzuto) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 09:11:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Message-ID: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> Hi Folks, I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in practicing law. Thanks, Ed Rizzuto Edward Rizzuto Law Office of Edward Rizzuto 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D Chico, California 95928 (530) 899-9280 edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com www.edrizzutolaw.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Tue Jun 2 16:19:12 2015 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Dan Beitz) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:19:12 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> References: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm no expert, but in my opinion, Jaws is the best screen reader. It works well in office and on the web. Window-eyes does have some advantages, such as its mouse, the outlook calendar, and its ability to read some web pages better than jaws. But jaws works better and more consistently with more of the things you will need in the practice of law. I use jaws exclusively in my practice, which involves representing corporate clients in commercial disputes. Now ask somebody who is an expert, like Tim elder. Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com www.wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 12:12 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Ed Rizzuto Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Hi Folks, I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in practicing law. Thanks, Ed Rizzuto Edward Rizzuto Law Office of Edward Rizzuto 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D Chico, California 95928 (530) 899-9280 edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com www.edrizzutolaw.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould.com From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 16:22:39 2015 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 17:22:39 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: References: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> Message-ID: One advantage of Window Eyes is that it is free if you own MS Office. I don't use Window Eyes myself but would seriously consider a switch at some point. Ger On 6/2/15, Dan Beitz via blindlaw wrote: > I'm no expert, but in my opinion, Jaws is the best screen reader. It works > well in office and on the web. Window-eyes does have some advantages, such > as its mouse, the outlook calendar, and its ability to read some web pages > better than jaws. But jaws works better and more consistently with more of > the things you will need in the practice of law. I use jaws exclusively in > my practice, which involves representing corporate clients in commercial > disputes. Now ask somebody who is an expert, like Tim elder. > > > > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > > www.wiennergould.com > > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages > attached > to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If > you are > not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this > email > to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, > or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or > attached to > this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in > error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by > telephoning > us at (248) 841-9400. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto > via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 12:12 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: Ed Rizzuto > Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate any > thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in > practicing law. > > > > Thanks, > > Ed Rizzuto > > > > Edward Rizzuto > > Law Office of Edward Rizzuto > > 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D > > Chico, California 95928 > > (530) 899-9280 > > edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com > > www.edrizzutolaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From awebb2168 at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 16:53:21 2015 From: awebb2168 at gmail.com (Andrew Webb) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 11:53:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Skipping past citations Message-ID: <00db01d09d54$a2692d80$e73b8880$@com> Hello, The recent threads discussing Westlaw and JAWS have prompted me to introduce one of my own. I vaguely recall that there may once have been some discussion on this point but it's very hazy in my memory. When reviewing a case on Westlaw, is there a way to conveniently skip past citations embedded in the body of the decision, and immediately continue reading the decision text? I find that hearing the whole citation read from beginning to end tends to be both distracting and a time-waster, especially when I'm skimming through the decision for a first reading. The best solution I've found is to just arrow down a line or two when JAWS starts to read a citation, as this usually helps me to find the end of that citation faster, but that's far from a precise technique. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions. Andrew Webb From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jun 2 17:47:10 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 17:47:10 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] West Law Next In-Reply-To: References: <9175FC3F-EF6F-4291-9BDA-347B4404E82D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Some of the problems may come from the network your internet is set on - I have no problem with Next on my iPad and at home, but our office network makes it almost impossible to even access, let alone use. (Our computer network is a county-wide thing, so since this is a government agency, there is no way to escape its effects.) Because of the problems at the office, which include not being able to log-in, etc., I often try to limp along with Google, or use my own data plan on my iPad. When I can even log-in at work, the network is so slow that it impedes the functioning of Next, so I end up switching to text.westlaw.com. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 3:11 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Law Next Echo all of the above. I use west law next exclusively with jaws, and have never had any accessibility problems. That being said, it did take awhile for me to figure out how pages are laid out, etc. if you give more specific information on the problems you're having, I'd be happy to help. Laura On 5/28/15, Alosha Moore via blindlaw wrote: > I use Westlaw next with jobs as well and I concur with Carla. it > seems pretty well accessible although it could use to be made a little > quicker to navigate with a screen reader. > Best, Alosha Moore. > > Sent from my iPhone. > >> On May 29, 2015, at 7:02 AM, Karla Gilbride via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> What sorts of problems are you having? I love Westlaw Next and find >> it much easier to use than Westlaw Classic. (I use JAWS 16.) >> >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:49:08 +0000 >> Subject: [blindlaw] West Law Next >> From: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> CC: dbeitz at wiennergould.com >> >> Anyone using Westlaw next with jaws successfully? They are turning >> off Westlaw classic, and Westlaw next is driving me crazy. >> >> >> [wg logo] >> >> Daniel K. Beitz >> Wienner & Gould, P.C. >> 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 >> Rochester, MI 48307 >> Phone: (248) 841-9405 >> Fax: (248) 652-2729 >> dbeitz at wiennergould.com >> >> www.wiennergould.com >> >> This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email >> messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is >> legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the >> individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or >> distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or >> attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive >> this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying >> to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kgilbride22%40h >> otmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aloshamoore%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Tue Jun 2 17:49:19 2015 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Dan Beitz) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 17:49:19 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] West Law Next In-Reply-To: References: <9175FC3F-EF6F-4291-9BDA-347B4404E82D@gmail.com> Message-ID: I assume they are going to ditch text.westlaw.com along with westlaw classic. Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com www.wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 1:47 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Law Next Some of the problems may come from the network your internet is set on - I have no problem with Next on my iPad and at home, but our office network makes it almost impossible to even access, let alone use. (Our computer network is a county-wide thing, so since this is a government agency, there is no way to escape its effects.) Because of the problems at the office, which include not being able to log-in, etc., I often try to limp along with Google, or use my own data plan on my iPad. When I can even log-in at work, the network is so slow that it impedes the functioning of Next, so I end up switching to text.westlaw.com. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 3:11 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Law Next Echo all of the above. I use west law next exclusively with jaws, and have never had any accessibility problems. That being said, it did take awhile for me to figure out how pages are laid out, etc. if you give more specific information on the problems you're having, I'd be happy to help. Laura On 5/28/15, Alosha Moore via blindlaw wrote: > I use Westlaw next with jobs as well and I concur with Carla. it > seems pretty well accessible although it could use to be made a little > quicker to navigate with a screen reader. > Best, Alosha Moore. > > Sent from my iPhone. > >> On May 29, 2015, at 7:02 AM, Karla Gilbride via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> What sorts of problems are you having? I love Westlaw Next and find >> it much easier to use than Westlaw Classic. (I use JAWS 16.) >> >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:49:08 +0000 >> Subject: [blindlaw] West Law Next >> From: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> CC: dbeitz at wiennergould.com >> >> Anyone using Westlaw next with jaws successfully? They are turning >> off Westlaw classic, and Westlaw next is driving me crazy. >> >> >> [wg logo] >> >> Daniel K. Beitz >> Wienner & Gould, P.C. >> 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 >> Rochester, MI 48307 >> Phone: (248) 841-9405 >> Fax: (248) 652-2729 >> dbeitz at wiennergould.com >> >> www.wiennergould.com >> >> This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email >> messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is >> legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the >> individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or >> distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or >> attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive >> this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying >> to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kgilbride22%40h >> otmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aloshamoore%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jun 2 17:54:32 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 17:54:32 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] West Law Next In-Reply-To: References: <9175FC3F-EF6F-4291-9BDA-347B4404E82D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Most likely - which will come as huge disappointment to many of my older, sighted coworkers! -----Original Message----- From: Dan Beitz [mailto:dbeitz at wiennergould.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 10:49 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: RE: [blindlaw] West Law Next I assume they are going to ditch text.westlaw.com along with westlaw classic. Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com www.wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 1:47 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Law Next Some of the problems may come from the network your internet is set on - I have no problem with Next on my iPad and at home, but our office network makes it almost impossible to even access, let alone use. (Our computer network is a county-wide thing, so since this is a government agency, there is no way to escape its effects.) Because of the problems at the office, which include not being able to log-in, etc., I often try to limp along with Google, or use my own data plan on my iPad. When I can even log-in at work, the network is so slow that it impedes the functioning of Next, so I end up switching to text.westlaw.com. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 3:11 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Law Next Echo all of the above. I use west law next exclusively with jaws, and have never had any accessibility problems. That being said, it did take awhile for me to figure out how pages are laid out, etc. if you give more specific information on the problems you're having, I'd be happy to help. Laura On 5/28/15, Alosha Moore via blindlaw wrote: > I use Westlaw next with jobs as well and I concur with Carla. it > seems pretty well accessible although it could use to be made a little > quicker to navigate with a screen reader. > Best, Alosha Moore. > > Sent from my iPhone. > >> On May 29, 2015, at 7:02 AM, Karla Gilbride via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> What sorts of problems are you having? I love Westlaw Next and find >> it much easier to use than Westlaw Classic. (I use JAWS 16.) >> >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:49:08 +0000 >> Subject: [blindlaw] West Law Next >> From: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> CC: dbeitz at wiennergould.com >> >> Anyone using Westlaw next with jaws successfully? They are turning >> off Westlaw classic, and Westlaw next is driving me crazy. >> >> >> [wg logo] >> >> Daniel K. Beitz >> Wienner & Gould, P.C. >> 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 >> Rochester, MI 48307 >> Phone: (248) 841-9405 >> Fax: (248) 652-2729 >> dbeitz at wiennergould.com >> >> www.wiennergould.com >> >> This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email >> messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is >> legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the >> individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or >> distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or >> attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive >> this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying >> to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kgilbride22%40h >> otmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aloshamoore%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould.com From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 18:17:37 2015 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody J. Davis) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 14:17:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> References: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <026F82FC-0647-49A9-9CF6-327594C77327@gmail.com> If you are not set on a Windows computer, all Apple computers come with a built-in screen reader called voiceover. I have found that voiceover is much easier to learn, at least it was for me. It seems to be more intuitive than JAWS. In high school I was taught how to use JAWS but it didn't really stick and I was very slow and limited with it. I think it really is a person by person basis though. I found quite a few YouTube videos that were helpful when deciding whether or not to switch from jaws to voice over. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate any > thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in > practicing law. > > > > Thanks, > > Ed Rizzuto > > > > Edward Rizzuto > > Law Office of Edward Rizzuto > > 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D > > Chico, California 95928 > > (530) 899-9280 > > edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com > > www.edrizzutolaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jun 2 18:28:53 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 18:28:53 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: <026F82FC-0647-49A9-9CF6-327594C77327@gmail.com> References: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> <026F82FC-0647-49A9-9CF6-327594C77327@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use both, depending on what device I am using, and also prefer VoiceOver. That said, most legal firms, especially in my home state, are totally invested in Windows / Microsoft type computers. For that, JAWS is likely the best. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody J. Davis via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:18 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Cody J. Davis Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? If you are not set on a Windows computer, all Apple computers come with a built-in screen reader called voiceover. I have found that voiceover is much easier to learn, at least it was for me. It seems to be more intuitive than JAWS. In high school I was taught how to use JAWS but it didn't really stick and I was very slow and limited with it. I think it really is a person by person basis though. I found quite a few YouTube videos that were helpful when deciding whether or not to switch from jaws to voice over. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate > any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in > practicing law. > > > > Thanks, > > Ed Rizzuto > > > > Edward Rizzuto > > Law Office of Edward Rizzuto > > 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D > > Chico, California 95928 > > (530) 899-9280 > > edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com > > www.edrizzutolaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Tue Jun 2 21:18:28 2015 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 15:18:28 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? References: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Play with both demos and makie your own choice! None is better than the other and each one swears by its own strength. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From samarositz at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 22:45:04 2015 From: samarositz at gmail.com (Stephen Alexander Marositz) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 15:45:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: References: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> <026F82FC-0647-49A9-9CF6-327594C77327@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01d09d85$c55d1f50$50175df0$@gmail.com> Okay, taking a break from bar prep to answer this one. Ed, this is obviously a loaded question. A lot of this comes down to your own preferences and needs though. Here are some things to think about. You say you are new to screen-readers. Does that mean you are losing your vision slowly? If so, I found that window-eyes has some stability issues, that Jaws and NVDA do not, not at first, but after a few hours of use. If you have enough residual vision to recover the program when this happens, then this will not be a problem for you. Next, are you a braille reader who uses a braille display? I find that in terms of connectivity, NVDA presents the least difficulty connecting and configuring your braille display. If you test it out, and find that you have no trouble connecting your braille display to Jaws and Window-eyes, then I would say that all three are superior at outputting braille, even to Voiceover. Do you work in a corporate environment? Do you use a virtual desktop or anything like that? If so, Jaws is your best bet for making that happen. Also, if this is the case, cost may not be an issue for you. Do you access a lot of complex websites/web 2.0 applications like google docs and sheets? This is one of NVDA's strengths but both NVDA and Jaws are superior to Window-eyes on this point. Window-eyes is making strides in this area but I found that many student management web based applications I had to use for work wouldn't work with it whereas the others would. I would imagine case management programs work in much the same way. Is security important to you? NVDA is open source and for some, this means that it is potentially more secure than the other commercial screen-readers. Learning curve. I think Jaws is the clear loser here, it is the most complex, except when you consider that because it is the industry leader there is a lot of documentation out there for it. Freedomscientific also puts on excellent webinar based training which is superior to anything that Window-eyes (in particular the free Microsoft version) and NVDA have. NVDA and Jaws share many of the same commands so if you are familiar with one, it isn't difficult to move to the other. NVDA's command structure, I found through training people to use both, was easier to pick up than Jaws's though. Window-eyes is completely different. many of the skills you learn in Window-eyes cannot easily be brought to the other screen-readers. One thing it has going for it is that it is completely customizable though. If I were introducing someone to screenreaders for the first time, and they were going to be a Windows user, I think I would begin with NVDA because it is free and, because most if not all of the skills you learn in NVDA can be brought over to Jaws if need be. I would move over to Jaws if the need arose or if the person needed more support and/or training than I could provide. I frankly can't think of a good reason why I would start with Window-eyes. What do I use on Windows? Well, I use Jaws most of the time at home. Jaws is what I am using right now to study for the bar and write this e-mail. I have been a Jaws customer for almost 20 years except for a 3 year period in the early 2000s when I used Window-eyes. At work, I have used a combination of NVDA and Window-eyes for the last 2 plus years (almost exclusively NVDA) because I couldn't justify the cost of Jaws to my employer. I hope these thoughts are helpful to you. Alex -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:29 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? I use both, depending on what device I am using, and also prefer Voiceover. That said, most legal firms, especially in my home state, are totally invested in Windows / Microsoft type computers. For that, JAWS is likely the best. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody J. Davis via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:18 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Cody J. Davis Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? If you are not set on a Windows computer, all Apple computers come with a built-in screen reader called voiceover. I have found that voiceover is much easier to learn, at least it was for me. It seems to be more intuitive than JAWS. In high school I was taught how to use JAWS but it didn't really stick and I was very slow and limited with it. I think it really is a person by person basis though. I found quite a few YouTube videos that were helpful when deciding whether or not to switch from jaws to voice over. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate > any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in > practicing law. > > > > Thanks, > > Ed Rizzuto > > > > Edward Rizzuto > > Law Office of Edward Rizzuto > > 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D > > Chico, California 95928 > > (530) 899-9280 > > edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com > > www.edrizzutolaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jun 3 14:46:39 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 14:46:39 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: <000a01d09d85$c55d1f50$50175df0$@gmail.com> References: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com> <026F82FC-0647-49A9-9CF6-327594C77327@gmail.com> <000a01d09d85$c55d1f50$50175df0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alex mentions another screen-reader side issue that has frustrated me, and I think a lot of other folks on this list. If you are in an office setting that uses an electronic file management program, be prepared for nothing to completely (or in some cases, even partially) narrate and assist in its use. The same is true of any of the court-based file management systems. Our office (government agency, so no wiggle room to run something else, unfortunately) chose to purchase an electronic file program which is completely inaccessible - as a result, my assistant does the entries in that program for me, and copies everything to a system that I created in Word which is totally navigable by JAWS. The court programs have varying levels of usability, which I was initially able to get around using screen magnification software in addition to the screen reader. As that becomes a less and less viable option, my assistant also transfers that information to an accessible format in Word. Long story short, a lot of the final choice will depend on the nature of your work environment. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Okay, taking a break from bar prep to answer this one. Ed, this is obviously a loaded question. A lot of this comes down to your own preferences and needs though. Here are some things to think about. You say you are new to screen-readers. Does that mean you are losing your vision slowly? If so, I found that window-eyes has some stability issues, that Jaws and NVDA do not, not at first, but after a few hours of use. If you have enough residual vision to recover the program when this happens, then this will not be a problem for you. Next, are you a braille reader who uses a braille display? I find that in terms of connectivity, NVDA presents the least difficulty connecting and configuring your braille display. If you test it out, and find that you have no trouble connecting your braille display to Jaws and Window-eyes, then I would say that all three are superior at outputting braille, even to Voiceover. Do you work in a corporate environment? Do you use a virtual desktop or anything like that? If so, Jaws is your best bet for making that happen. Also, if this is the case, cost may not be an issue for you. Do you access a lot of complex websites/web 2.0 applications like google docs and sheets? This is one of NVDA's strengths but both NVDA and Jaws are superior to Window-eyes on this point. Window-eyes is making strides in this area but I found that many student management web based applications I had to use for work wouldn't work with it whereas the others would. I would imagine case management programs work in much the same way. Is security important to you? NVDA is open source and for some, this means that it is potentially more secure than the other commercial screen-readers. Learning curve. I think Jaws is the clear loser here, it is the most complex, except when you consider that because it is the industry leader there is a lot of documentation out there for it. Freedomscientific also puts on excellent webinar based training which is superior to anything that Window-eyes (in particular the free Microsoft version) and NVDA have. NVDA and Jaws share many of the same commands so if you are familiar with one, it isn't difficult to move to the other. NVDA's command structure, I found through training people to use both, was easier to pick up than Jaws's though. Window-eyes is completely different. many of the skills you learn in Window-eyes cannot easily be brought to the other screen-readers. One thing it has going for it is that it is completely customizable though. If I were introducing someone to screenreaders for the first time, and they were going to be a Windows user, I think I would begin with NVDA because it is free and, because most if not all of the skills you learn in NVDA can be brought over to Jaws if need be. I would move over to Jaws if the need arose or if the person needed more support and/or training than I could provide. I frankly can't think of a good reason why I would start with Window-eyes. What do I use on Windows? Well, I use Jaws most of the time at home. Jaws is what I am using right now to study for the bar and write this e-mail. I have been a Jaws customer for almost 20 years except for a 3 year period in the early 2000s when I used Window-eyes. At work, I have used a combination of NVDA and Window-eyes for the last 2 plus years (almost exclusively NVDA) because I couldn't justify the cost of Jaws to my employer. I hope these thoughts are helpful to you. Alex -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:29 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? I use both, depending on what device I am using, and also prefer Voiceover. That said, most legal firms, especially in my home state, are totally invested in Windows / Microsoft type computers. For that, JAWS is likely the best. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody J. Davis via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:18 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Cody J. Davis Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? If you are not set on a Windows computer, all Apple computers come with a built-in screen reader called voiceover. I have found that voiceover is much easier to learn, at least it was for me. It seems to be more intuitive than JAWS. In high school I was taught how to use JAWS but it didn't really stick and I was very slow and limited with it. I think it really is a person by person basis though. I found quite a few YouTube videos that were helpful when deciding whether or not to switch from jaws to voice over. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw > wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate > any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in > practicing law. > > > > Thanks, > > Ed Rizzuto > > > > Edward Rizzuto > > Law Office of Edward Rizzuto > > 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D > > Chico, California 95928 > > (530) 899-9280 > > edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com > > www.edrizzutolaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From michael.mcglashon at comcast.net Wed Jun 3 14:52:47 2015 From: michael.mcglashon at comcast.net (mike mcglashon) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 09:52:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: References: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com><026F82FC-0647-49A9-9CF6-327594C77327@gmail.com><000a01d09d85$c55d1f50$50175df0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <287647F4567A40C48F54802E4B28722C@mcglashonHP> hi guys: I have been following this window eyes or jaws thread a bit and one question comes to mind? that is, if the courts and government agencies are all supposed to of the ADA and its provisions in the public sector portion under title II, then how come these issues are coming forth from folks in the field saying that their software that the agency tey work for is inaccessible? this is confusing to me and says that the agencies are not taking the ADA title II seriously, or that it simply doesn't apply to them? I could see this happening in the private sector simply due to ignorance of the law; this would be correctable; but to hear of public government agencies making these faux pas's is quite disturbing to me as an outsider looking in? Please explain, I need to be educated? Sincerely: Mike M. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 9:46 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Alex mentions another screen-reader side issue that has frustrated me, and I think a lot of other folks on this list. If you are in an office setting that uses an electronic file management program, be prepared for nothing to completely (or in some cases, even partially) narrate and assist in its use. The same is true of any of the court-based file management systems. Our office (government agency, so no wiggle room to run something else, unfortunately) chose to purchase an electronic file program which is completely inaccessible - as a result, my assistant does the entries in that program for me, and copies everything to a system that I created in Word which is totally navigable by JAWS. The court programs have varying levels of usability, which I was initially able to get around using screen magnification software in addition to the screen reader. As that becomes a less and less viable option, my assistant also transfers that information to an accessible format in Word. Long story short, a lot of the final choice will depend on the nature of your work environment. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Okay, taking a break from bar prep to answer this one. Ed, this is obviously a loaded question. A lot of this comes down to your own preferences and needs though. Here are some things to think about. You say you are new to screen-readers. Does that mean you are losing your vision slowly? If so, I found that window-eyes has some stability issues, that Jaws and NVDA do not, not at first, but after a few hours of use. If you have enough residual vision to recover the program when this happens, then this will not be a problem for you. Next, are you a braille reader who uses a braille display? I find that in terms of connectivity, NVDA presents the least difficulty connecting and configuring your braille display. If you test it out, and find that you have no trouble connecting your braille display to Jaws and Window-eyes, then I would say that all three are superior at outputting braille, even to Voiceover. Do you work in a corporate environment? Do you use a virtual desktop or anything like that? If so, Jaws is your best bet for making that happen. Also, if this is the case, cost may not be an issue for you. Do you access a lot of complex websites/web 2.0 applications like google docs and sheets? This is one of NVDA's strengths but both NVDA and Jaws are superior to Window-eyes on this point. Window-eyes is making strides in this area but I found that many student management web based applications I had to use for work wouldn't work with it whereas the others would. I would imagine case management programs work in much the same way. Is security important to you? NVDA is open source and for some, this means that it is potentially more secure than the other commercial screen-readers. Learning curve. I think Jaws is the clear loser here, it is the most complex, except when you consider that because it is the industry leader there is a lot of documentation out there for it. Freedomscientific also puts on excellent webinar based training which is superior to anything that Window-eyes (in particular the free Microsoft version) and NVDA have. NVDA and Jaws share many of the same commands so if you are familiar with one, it isn't difficult to move to the other. NVDA's command structure, I found through training people to use both, was easier to pick up than Jaws's though. Window-eyes is completely different. many of the skills you learn in Window-eyes cannot easily be brought to the other screen-readers. One thing it has going for it is that it is completely customizable though. If I were introducing someone to screenreaders for the first time, and they were going to be a Windows user, I think I would begin with NVDA because it is free and, because most if not all of the skills you learn in NVDA can be brought over to Jaws if need be. I would move over to Jaws if the need arose or if the person needed more support and/or training than I could provide. I frankly can't think of a good reason why I would start with Window-eyes. What do I use on Windows? Well, I use Jaws most of the time at home. Jaws is what I am using right now to study for the bar and write this e-mail. I have been a Jaws customer for almost 20 years except for a 3 year period in the early 2000s when I used Window-eyes. At work, I have used a combination of NVDA and Window-eyes for the last 2 plus years (almost exclusively NVDA) because I couldn't justify the cost of Jaws to my employer. I hope these thoughts are helpful to you. Alex -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:29 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? I use both, depending on what device I am using, and also prefer Voiceover. That said, most legal firms, especially in my home state, are totally invested in Windows / Microsoft type computers. For that, JAWS is likely the best. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody J. Davis via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:18 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Cody J. Davis Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? If you are not set on a Windows computer, all Apple computers come with a built-in screen reader called voiceover. I have found that voiceover is much easier to learn, at least it was for me. It seems to be more intuitive than JAWS. In high school I was taught how to use JAWS but it didn't really stick and I was very slow and limited with it. I think it really is a person by person basis though. I found quite a few YouTube videos that were helpful when deciding whether or not to switch from jaws to voice over. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw > wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate > any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in > practicing law. > > > > Thanks, > > Ed Rizzuto > > > > Edward Rizzuto > > Law Office of Edward Rizzuto > > 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D > > Chico, California 95928 > > (530) 899-9280 > > edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com > > www.edrizzutolaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40comcast.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jun 3 15:24:43 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 15:24:43 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: <287647F4567A40C48F54802E4B28722C@mcglashonHP> References: <000001d09d4e$dc192630$944b7290$@gmail.com><026F82FC-0647-49A9-9CF6-327594C77327@gmail.com><000a01d09d85$c55d1f50$50175df0$@gmail.com> <287647F4567A40C48F54802E4B28722C@mcglashonHP> Message-ID: At least at our agency (county public defender office), my supervisor was part of the committee that eventually procured the file management program. Because I use a screen reader (and to a lesser degree, screen magnification) and a co-worker uses Dragon due to paralysis, she lobbied incessantly for the programs to be accessible. At first, no one - either in administration OR in the varying software firms - even knew what that meant. There is a common misconception that if something is on the Internet, it must be accessible. Once she got everyone somewhat educated, the administration then said they would still purchase what they wanted (arguing cost and general attractions of the program chosen), and would work with that firm's software engineers later to make it accessible. Over two years later, none of that has happened, and my co-worker and I rely on our assistants to help us manage that program. As far as the courts, things are slowly changing - but only very slowly, after years of complaining and threats of litigation. Finally, one other aspect - our county government also relies now on an automated. Web-based personnel management program, for everything from time / attendance and payroll to general human resources and employee benefits. It is also almost entirely inaccessible, beyond the initial sign-on screen. After my continuing complaints about the extreme HIPPA and other privacy violations involved in requiring me to rely on others to access this program, our ADA liaison and reps from our Human Resources department met with the company, which is apparently the largest payroll management firm in the country. Their response was essentially that they are aware of the accessibility problems and...they don't care. They have absolutely no intention of making compliance a priority. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of mike mcglashon via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 7:53 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: mike mcglashon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? hi guys: I have been following this window eyes or jaws thread a bit and one question comes to mind? that is, if the courts and government agencies are all supposed to of the ADA and its provisions in the public sector portion under title II, then how come these issues are coming forth from folks in the field saying that their software that the agency tey work for is inaccessible? this is confusing to me and says that the agencies are not taking the ADA title II seriously, or that it simply doesn't apply to them? I could see this happening in the private sector simply due to ignorance of the law; this would be correctable; but to hear of public government agencies making these faux pas's is quite disturbing to me as an outsider looking in? Please explain, I need to be educated? Sincerely: Mike M. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 9:46 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Alex mentions another screen-reader side issue that has frustrated me, and I think a lot of other folks on this list. If you are in an office setting that uses an electronic file management program, be prepared for nothing to completely (or in some cases, even partially) narrate and assist in its use. The same is true of any of the court-based file management systems. Our office (government agency, so no wiggle room to run something else, unfortunately) chose to purchase an electronic file program which is completely inaccessible - as a result, my assistant does the entries in that program for me, and copies everything to a system that I created in Word which is totally navigable by JAWS. The court programs have varying levels of usability, which I was initially able to get around using screen magnification software in addition to the screen reader. As that becomes a less and less viable option, my assistant also transfers that information to an accessible format in Word. Long story short, a lot of the final choice will depend on the nature of your work environment. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Okay, taking a break from bar prep to answer this one. Ed, this is obviously a loaded question. A lot of this comes down to your own preferences and needs though. Here are some things to think about. You say you are new to screen-readers. Does that mean you are losing your vision slowly? If so, I found that window-eyes has some stability issues, that Jaws and NVDA do not, not at first, but after a few hours of use. If you have enough residual vision to recover the program when this happens, then this will not be a problem for you. Next, are you a braille reader who uses a braille display? I find that in terms of connectivity, NVDA presents the least difficulty connecting and configuring your braille display. If you test it out, and find that you have no trouble connecting your braille display to Jaws and Window-eyes, then I would say that all three are superior at outputting braille, even to Voiceover. Do you work in a corporate environment? Do you use a virtual desktop or anything like that? If so, Jaws is your best bet for making that happen. Also, if this is the case, cost may not be an issue for you. Do you access a lot of complex websites/web 2.0 applications like google docs and sheets? This is one of NVDA's strengths but both NVDA and Jaws are superior to Window-eyes on this point. Window-eyes is making strides in this area but I found that many student management web based applications I had to use for work wouldn't work with it whereas the others would. I would imagine case management programs work in much the same way. Is security important to you? NVDA is open source and for some, this means that it is potentially more secure than the other commercial screen-readers. Learning curve. I think Jaws is the clear loser here, it is the most complex, except when you consider that because it is the industry leader there is a lot of documentation out there for it. Freedomscientific also puts on excellent webinar based training which is superior to anything that Window-eyes (in particular the free Microsoft version) and NVDA have. NVDA and Jaws share many of the same commands so if you are familiar with one, it isn't difficult to move to the other. NVDA's command structure, I found through training people to use both, was easier to pick up than Jaws's though. Window-eyes is completely different. many of the skills you learn in Window-eyes cannot easily be brought to the other screen-readers. One thing it has going for it is that it is completely customizable though. If I were introducing someone to screenreaders for the first time, and they were going to be a Windows user, I think I would begin with NVDA because it is free and, because most if not all of the skills you learn in NVDA can be brought over to Jaws if need be. I would move over to Jaws if the need arose or if the person needed more support and/or training than I could provide. I frankly can't think of a good reason why I would start with Window-eyes. What do I use on Windows? Well, I use Jaws most of the time at home. Jaws is what I am using right now to study for the bar and write this e-mail. I have been a Jaws customer for almost 20 years except for a 3 year period in the early 2000s when I used Window-eyes. At work, I have used a combination of NVDA and Window-eyes for the last 2 plus years (almost exclusively NVDA) because I couldn't justify the cost of Jaws to my employer. I hope these thoughts are helpful to you. Alex -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:29 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? I use both, depending on what device I am using, and also prefer Voiceover. That said, most legal firms, especially in my home state, are totally invested in Windows / Microsoft type computers. For that, JAWS is likely the best. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody J. Davis via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:18 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Cody J. Davis Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? If you are not set on a Windows computer, all Apple computers come with a built-in screen reader called voiceover. I have found that voiceover is much easier to learn, at least it was for me. It seems to be more intuitive than JAWS. In high school I was taught how to use JAWS but it didn't really stick and I was very slow and limited with it. I think it really is a person by person basis though. I found quite a few YouTube videos that were helpful when deciding whether or not to switch from jaws to voice over. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw > wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate > any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in > practicing law. > > > > Thanks, > > Ed Rizzuto > > > > Edward Rizzuto > > Law Office of Edward Rizzuto > > 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D > > Chico, California 95928 > > (530) 899-9280 > > edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com > > www.edrizzutolaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From steve.jacobson at visi.com Wed Jun 3 15:57:07 2015 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:57:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Perhaps the lawyers on this list have some answers that would help, but the fact is that sometimes there really are not accessible options for some specific kinds of software, or the software that is accessible has some other drawback that makes it not possible to use in a given situation. In addition, to my knowledge, the ADA applies to an employer, but it doesn't apply to the companies creating the software. The only leverage we really have is to have the sales of inaccessible products reduced because of their inaccessibility, but if there are no good alternatives, that doesn't happen. Of course, there are exceptions and there are cases where accessibility wasn't taken into account when it should have been, and at least there is a course of action in such cases. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 15:24:43 +0000, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >At least at our agency (county public defender office), my supervisor was part of the committee that eventually procured the file management program. Because I use a screen reader (and to a lesser degree, screen magnification) and a co-worker uses Dragon due to paralysis, she lobbied incessantly for the programs to be accessible. At first, no one - either in administration OR in the varying software firms - even knew what that meant. There is a common misconception that if something is on the Internet, it must be accessible. Once she got everyone somewhat educated, the administration then said they would still purchase what they wanted (arguing cost and general attractions of the program chosen), and would work with that firm's software engineers later to make it accessible. Over two years later, none of that has happened, and my co-worker and I rely on our assistants to help us manage that program. >As far as the courts, things are slowly changing - but only very slowly, after years of complaining and threats of litigation. Finally, one other aspect - our county government also relies now on an automated. Web-based personnel management program, for everything from time / attendance and payroll to general human resources and employee benefits. It is also almost entirely inaccessible, beyond the initial sign-on screen. After my continuing complaints about the extreme HIPPA and other privacy violations involved in requiring me to rely on others to access this program, our ADA liaison and reps from our Human Resources department met with the company, which is apparently the largest payroll management firm in the country. Their response was essentially that they are aware of the accessibility problems and...they don't care. They have absolutely no intention of making compliance a priority. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of mike mcglashon via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 7:53 AM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Cc: mike mcglashon >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >hi guys: >I have been following this window eyes or jaws thread a bit and one question comes to mind? >that is, if the courts and government agencies are all supposed to of the ADA and its provisions in the public sector portion under title II, then how come these issues are coming forth from folks in the field saying that their software that the agency tey work for is inaccessible? this is confusing to me and says that the agencies are not taking the ADA title II seriously, or that it simply doesn't apply to them? I could see this happening in the private sector simply due to ignorance of the law; this would be correctable; but to hear of public government agencies making these faux pas's is quite disturbing to me as an outsider looking in? >Please explain, I need to be educated? >Sincerely: >Mike M. >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 9:46 AM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >Alex mentions another screen-reader side issue that has frustrated me, and I think a lot of other folks on this list. If you are in an office setting that uses an electronic file management program, be prepared for nothing to completely (or in some cases, even partially) narrate and assist in its use. >The same is true of any of the court-based file management systems. Our office (government agency, so no wiggle room to run something else, >unfortunately) chose to purchase an electronic file program which is completely inaccessible - as a result, my assistant does the entries in that program for me, and copies everything to a system that I created in Word which is totally navigable by JAWS. The court programs have varying levels of usability, which I was initially able to get around using screen magnification software in addition to the screen reader. As that becomes a less and less viable option, my assistant also transfers that information to an accessible format in Word. >Long story short, a lot of the final choice will depend on the nature of your work environment. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:45 PM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >Okay, taking a break from bar prep to answer this one. >Ed, this is obviously a loaded question. A lot of this comes down to your >own preferences and needs though. Here are some things to think about. You say you are new to screen-readers. Does that mean you are losing your vision slowly? If so, I found that window-eyes has some stability issues, that Jaws and NVDA do not, not at first, but after a few hours of use. If you have enough residual vision to recover the program when this happens, then this will not be a problem for you. >Next, are you a braille reader who uses a braille display? I find that in terms of connectivity, NVDA presents the least difficulty connecting and configuring your braille display. If you test it out, and find that you have no trouble connecting your braille display to Jaws and Window-eyes, then I would say that all three are superior at outputting braille, even to Voiceover. >Do you work in a corporate environment? Do you use a virtual desktop or anything like that? If so, Jaws is your best bet for making that happen. >Also, if this is the case, cost may not be an issue for you. >Do you access a lot of complex websites/web 2.0 applications like google docs and sheets? This is one of NVDA's strengths but both NVDA and Jaws are superior to Window-eyes on this point. Window-eyes is making strides in this area but I found that many student management web based applications I had to use for work wouldn't work with it whereas the others would. I would imagine case management programs work in much the same way. >Is security important to you? NVDA is open source and for some, this means that it is potentially more secure than the other commercial screen-readers. >Learning curve. I think Jaws is the clear loser here, it is the most complex, except when you consider that because it is the industry leader there is a lot of documentation out there for it. Freedomscientific also puts on excellent webinar based training which is superior to anything that Window-eyes (in particular the free Microsoft version) and NVDA have. NVDA and Jaws share many of the same commands so if you are familiar with one, it isn't difficult to move to the other. NVDA's command structure, I found through training people to use both, was easier to pick up than Jaws's though. Window-eyes is completely different. many of the skills you learn in Window-eyes cannot easily be brought to the other screen-readers. One thing it has going for it is that it is completely customizable though. >If I were introducing someone to screenreaders for the first time, and they were going to be a Windows user, I think I would begin with NVDA because it is free and, because most if not all of the skills you learn in NVDA can be brought over to Jaws if need be. I would move over to Jaws if the need arose or if the person needed more support and/or training than I could provide. I frankly can't think of a good reason why I would start with Window-eyes. >What do I use on Windows? Well, I use Jaws most of the time at home. Jaws is what I am using right now to study for the bar and write this e-mail. I have been a Jaws customer for almost 20 years except for a 3 year period in the early 2000s when I used Window-eyes. At work, I have used a combination of NVDA and Window-eyes for the last 2 plus years (almost exclusively NVDA) because I couldn't justify the cost of Jaws to my employer. >I hope these thoughts are helpful to you. >Alex >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:29 AM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >I use both, depending on what device I am using, and also prefer Voiceover. >That said, most legal firms, especially in my home state, are totally invested in Windows / Microsoft type computers. For that, JAWS is likely the best. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody J. >Davis via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:18 AM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Cc: Cody J. Davis >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >If you are not set on a Windows computer, all Apple computers come with a built-in screen reader called voiceover. I have found that voiceover is much easier to learn, at least it was for me. It seems to be more intuitive than JAWS. In high school I was taught how to use JAWS but it didn't really stick and I was very slow and limited with it. I think it really is a person by person basis though. I found quite a few YouTube videos that were helpful when deciding whether or not to switch from jaws to voice over. >Sent from my iPhone >> On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw >> >wrote: >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> >> >> I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate >> any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in >> practicing law. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ed Rizzuto >> >> >> >> Edward Rizzuto >> >> Law Office of Edward Rizzuto >> >> 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D >> >> Chico, California 95928 >> >> (530) 899-9280 >> >> edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com >> >> www.edrizzutolaw.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gm >> ail.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40comcast.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 20:15:43 2015 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 16:15:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04D2FB416C9A40638C4BD8D743B07BE8@Helga> Hello Mr. Steve and all! This is Helga. How are you all? I have been following this tret, and I see a lot of difficulties with accessible softwares. I just wanted to tell you in a year or so , I'm plann ing to do an internship perhaps in a court that handles disability right cases. But what I wanted to ask you, in these kind of internships do the use of software is necessary? I'm just wondring. I apologize if this question has already been ask, but since I'm still working on the process of becoming a lawyer, I was just curious. I currently use JAWS 14, but I'm having issues with it. However, eventually I'm planning in getting a Mac computer. And one last question, do Mac computer work great with Braille Displays and softwares? Just curious. I look forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks so much for all your time and have a nice day. God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: Steve Jacobson via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2015 11:57 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Steve Jacobson Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Perhaps the lawyers on this list have some answers that would help, but the fact is that sometimes there really are not accessible options for some specific kinds of software, or the software that is accessible has some other drawback that makes it not possible to use in a given situation. In addition, to my knowledge, the ADA applies to an employer, but it doesn't apply to the companies creating the software. The only leverage we really have is to have the sales of inaccessible products reduced because of their inaccessibility, but if there are no good alternatives, that doesn't happen. Of course, there are exceptions and there are cases where accessibility wasn't taken into account when it should have been, and at least there is a course of action in such cases. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 15:24:43 +0000, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >At least at our agency (county public defender office), my supervisor was >part of the committee that eventually procured the file management program. Because I use a screen reader (and to a lesser degree, screen magnification) and a co-worker uses Dragon due to paralysis, she lobbied incessantly for the programs to be accessible. At first, no one - either in administration OR in the varying software firms - even knew what that meant. There is a common misconception that if something is on the Internet, it must be accessible. Once she got everyone somewhat educated, the administration then said they would still purchase what they wanted (arguing cost and general attractions of the program chosen), and would work with that firm's software engineers later to make it accessible. Over two years later, none of that has happened, and my co-worker and I rely on our assistants to help us manage that program. >As far as the courts, things are slowly changing - but only very slowly, >after years of complaining and threats of litigation. Finally, one other aspect - our county government also relies now on an automated. Web-based personnel management program, for everything from time / attendance and payroll to general human resources and employee benefits. It is also almost entirely inaccessible, beyond the initial sign-on screen. After my continuing complaints about the extreme HIPPA and other privacy violations involved in requiring me to rely on others to access this program, our ADA liaison and reps from our Human Resources department met with the company, which is apparently the largest payroll management firm in the country. Their response was essentially that they are aware of the accessibility problems and...they don't care. They have absolutely no intention of making compliance a priority. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of mike >mcglashon via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 7:53 AM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Cc: mike mcglashon >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >hi guys: >I have been following this window eyes or jaws thread a bit and one >question comes to mind? >that is, if the courts and government agencies are all supposed to of the >ADA and its provisions in the public sector portion under title II, then how come these issues are coming forth from folks in the field saying that their software that the agency tey work for is inaccessible? this is confusing to me and says that the agencies are not taking the ADA title II seriously, or that it simply doesn't apply to them? I could see this happening in the private sector simply due to ignorance of the law; this would be correctable; but to hear of public government agencies making these faux pas's is quite disturbing to me as an outsider looking in? >Please explain, I need to be educated? >Sincerely: >Mike M. >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 9:46 AM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >Alex mentions another screen-reader side issue that has frustrated me, and >I think a lot of other folks on this list. If you are in an office setting that uses an electronic file management program, be prepared for nothing to completely (or in some cases, even partially) narrate and assist in its use. >The same is true of any of the court-based file management systems. Our >office (government agency, so no wiggle room to run something else, >unfortunately) chose to purchase an electronic file program which is >completely inaccessible - as a result, my assistant does the entries in that program for me, and copies everything to a system that I created in Word which is totally navigable by JAWS. The court programs have varying levels of usability, which I was initially able to get around using screen magnification software in addition to the screen reader. As that becomes a less and less viable option, my assistant also transfers that information to an accessible format in Word. >Long story short, a lot of the final choice will depend on the nature of >your work environment. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen >Alexander Marositz via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:45 PM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >Okay, taking a break from bar prep to answer this one. >Ed, this is obviously a loaded question. A lot of this comes down to your >own preferences and needs though. Here are some things to think about. >You say you are new to screen-readers. Does that mean you are losing your vision slowly? If so, I found that window-eyes has some stability issues, that Jaws and NVDA do not, not at first, but after a few hours of use. If you have enough residual vision to recover the program when this happens, then this will not be a problem for you. >Next, are you a braille reader who uses a braille display? I find that in >terms of connectivity, NVDA presents the least difficulty connecting and configuring your braille display. If you test it out, and find that you have no trouble connecting your braille display to Jaws and Window-eyes, then I would say that all three are superior at outputting braille, even to Voiceover. >Do you work in a corporate environment? Do you use a virtual desktop or >anything like that? If so, Jaws is your best bet for making that happen. >Also, if this is the case, cost may not be an issue for you. >Do you access a lot of complex websites/web 2.0 applications like google >docs and sheets? This is one of NVDA's strengths but both NVDA and Jaws are superior to Window-eyes on this point. Window-eyes is making strides in this area but I found that many student management web based applications I had to use for work wouldn't work with it whereas the others would. I would imagine case management programs work in much the same way. >Is security important to you? NVDA is open source and for some, this means >that it is potentially more secure than the other commercial screen-readers. >Learning curve. I think Jaws is the clear loser here, it is the most >complex, except when you consider that because it is the industry leader there is a lot of documentation out there for it. Freedomscientific also puts on excellent webinar based training which is superior to anything that Window-eyes (in particular the free Microsoft version) and NVDA have. NVDA and Jaws share many of the same commands so if you are familiar with one, it isn't difficult to move to the other. NVDA's command structure, I found through training people to use both, was easier to pick up than Jaws's though. Window-eyes is completely different. many of the skills you learn in Window-eyes cannot easily be brought to the other screen-readers. One thing it has going for it is that it is completely customizable though. >If I were introducing someone to screenreaders for the first time, and they >were going to be a Windows user, I think I would begin with NVDA because it is free and, because most if not all of the skills you learn in NVDA can be brought over to Jaws if need be. I would move over to Jaws if the need arose or if the person needed more support and/or training than I could provide. I frankly can't think of a good reason why I would start with Window-eyes. >What do I use on Windows? Well, I use Jaws most of the time at home. Jaws >is what I am using right now to study for the bar and write this e-mail. I have been a Jaws customer for almost 20 years except for a 3 year period in the early 2000s when I used Window-eyes. At work, I have used a combination of NVDA and Window-eyes for the last 2 plus years (almost exclusively NVDA) because I couldn't justify the cost of Jaws to my employer. >I hope these thoughts are helpful to you. >Alex >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan >Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:29 AM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >I use both, depending on what device I am using, and also prefer Voiceover. >That said, most legal firms, especially in my home state, are totally >invested in Windows / Microsoft type computers. For that, JAWS is likely the best. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody J. >Davis via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:18 AM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Cc: Cody J. Davis >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >If you are not set on a Windows computer, all Apple computers come with a >built-in screen reader called voiceover. I have found that voiceover is much easier to learn, at least it was for me. It seems to be more intuitive than JAWS. In high school I was taught how to use JAWS but it didn't really stick and I was very slow and limited with it. I think it really is a person by person basis though. I found quite a few YouTube videos that were helpful when deciding whether or not to switch from jaws to voice over. >Sent from my iPhone >> On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw >> >wrote: >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> >> >> I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate >> any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use in >> practicing law. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ed Rizzuto >> >> >> >> Edward Rizzuto >> >> Law Office of Edward Rizzuto >> >> 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D >> >> Chico, California 95928 >> >> (530) 899-9280 >> >> edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com >> >> www.edrizzutolaw.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gm >> ail.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40comcast.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jun 3 20:21:18 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 20:21:18 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? In-Reply-To: <04D2FB416C9A40638C4BD8D743B07BE8@Helga> References: <04D2FB416C9A40638C4BD8D743B07BE8@Helga> Message-ID: Helga - It will depend on what court you are at, but they all use computerized access to one degree or another. At least here in Arizona, Windows / Microsoft type computers and their programs seem to be the norm for courts and law offices, although we can still access web-based programs from Apple / Mac computers. Not sure on the Braille question - still learning that in my non-existent spare time, but hoping the answer is good! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 1:16 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Hello Mr. Steve and all! This is Helga. How are you all? I have been following this tret, and I see a lot of difficulties with accessible softwares. I just wanted to tell you in a year or so , I'm plann ing to do an internship perhaps in a court that handles disability right cases. But what I wanted to ask you, in these kind of internships do the use of software is necessary? I'm just wondring. I apologize if this question has already been ask, but since I'm still working on the process of becoming a lawyer, I was just curious. I currently use JAWS 14, but I'm having issues with it. However, eventually I'm planning in getting a Mac computer. And one last question, do Mac computer work great with Braille Displays and softwares? Just curious. I look forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks so much for all your time and have a nice day. God bless! Helga Schreiber Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research Phone: (561) 706-5950 Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Skype: helga.schreiber26 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx INT Website: http://int4life.com/ "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 -----Original Message----- From: Steve Jacobson via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2015 11:57 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Steve Jacobson Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? Perhaps the lawyers on this list have some answers that would help, but the fact is that sometimes there really are not accessible options for some specific kinds of software, or the software that is accessible has some other drawback that makes it not possible to use in a given situation. In addition, to my knowledge, the ADA applies to an employer, but it doesn't apply to the companies creating the software. The only leverage we really have is to have the sales of inaccessible products reduced because of their inaccessibility, but if there are no good alternatives, that doesn't happen. Of course, there are exceptions and there are cases where accessibility wasn't taken into account when it should have been, and at least there is a course of action in such cases. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 15:24:43 +0000, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >At least at our agency (county public defender office), my supervisor >was part of the committee that eventually procured the file management program. Because I use a screen reader (and to a lesser degree, screen magnification) and a co-worker uses Dragon due to paralysis, she lobbied incessantly for the programs to be accessible. At first, no one - either in administration OR in the varying software firms - even knew what that meant. There is a common misconception that if something is on the Internet, it must be accessible. Once she got everyone somewhat educated, the administration then said they would still purchase what they wanted (arguing cost and general attractions of the program chosen), and would work with that firm's software engineers later to make it accessible. Over two years later, none of that has happened, and my co-worker and I rely on our assistants to help us manage that program. >As far as the courts, things are slowly changing - but only very >slowly, after years of complaining and threats of litigation. Finally, one other aspect - our county government also relies now on an automated. Web-based personnel management program, for everything from time / attendance and payroll to general human resources and employee benefits. It is also almost entirely inaccessible, beyond the initial sign-on screen. After my continuing complaints about the extreme HIPPA and other privacy violations involved in requiring me to rely on others to access this program, our ADA liaison and reps from our Human Resources department met with the company, which is apparently the largest payroll management firm in the country. Their response was essentially that they are aware of the accessibility problems and...they don't care. They have absolutely no intention of making compliance a priority. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of mike >mcglashon via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 7:53 AM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Cc: mike mcglashon >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >hi guys: >I have been following this window eyes or jaws thread a bit and one >question comes to mind? >that is, if the courts and government agencies are all supposed to of >the ADA and its provisions in the public sector portion under title II, then how come these issues are coming forth from folks in the field saying that their software that the agency tey work for is inaccessible? this is confusing to me and says that the agencies are not taking the ADA title II seriously, or that it simply doesn't apply to them? I could see this happening in the private sector simply due to ignorance of the law; this would be correctable; but to hear of public government agencies making these faux pas's is quite disturbing to me as an outsider looking in? >Please explain, I need to be educated? >Sincerely: >Mike M. >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 9:46 AM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >Alex mentions another screen-reader side issue that has frustrated me, >and I think a lot of other folks on this list. If you are in an office setting that uses an electronic file management program, be prepared for nothing to completely (or in some cases, even partially) narrate and assist in its use. >The same is true of any of the court-based file management systems. >Our office (government agency, so no wiggle room to run something else, >unfortunately) chose to purchase an electronic file program which is >completely inaccessible - as a result, my assistant does the entries in that program for me, and copies everything to a system that I created in Word which is totally navigable by JAWS. The court programs have varying levels of usability, which I was initially able to get around using screen magnification software in addition to the screen reader. As that becomes a less and less viable option, my assistant also transfers that information to an accessible format in Word. >Long story short, a lot of the final choice will depend on the nature >of your work environment. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:45 PM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >Okay, taking a break from bar prep to answer this one. >Ed, this is obviously a loaded question. A lot of this comes down to your >own preferences and needs though. Here are some things to think about. >You say you are new to screen-readers. Does that mean you are losing your vision slowly? If so, I found that window-eyes has some stability issues, that Jaws and NVDA do not, not at first, but after a few hours of use. If you have enough residual vision to recover the program when this happens, then this will not be a problem for you. >Next, are you a braille reader who uses a braille display? I find that >in terms of connectivity, NVDA presents the least difficulty connecting and configuring your braille display. If you test it out, and find that you have no trouble connecting your braille display to Jaws and Window-eyes, then I would say that all three are superior at outputting braille, even to Voiceover. >Do you work in a corporate environment? Do you use a virtual desktop >or anything like that? If so, Jaws is your best bet for making that happen. >Also, if this is the case, cost may not be an issue for you. >Do you access a lot of complex websites/web 2.0 applications like >google docs and sheets? This is one of NVDA's strengths but both NVDA and Jaws are superior to Window-eyes on this point. Window-eyes is making strides in this area but I found that many student management web based applications I had to use for work wouldn't work with it whereas the others would. I would imagine case management programs work in much the same way. >Is security important to you? NVDA is open source and for some, this >means that it is potentially more secure than the other commercial screen-readers. >Learning curve. I think Jaws is the clear loser here, it is the most >complex, except when you consider that because it is the industry leader there is a lot of documentation out there for it. Freedomscientific also puts on excellent webinar based training which is superior to anything that Window-eyes (in particular the free Microsoft version) and NVDA have. NVDA and Jaws share many of the same commands so if you are familiar with one, it isn't difficult to move to the other. NVDA's command structure, I found through training people to use both, was easier to pick up than Jaws's though. Window-eyes is completely different. many of the skills you learn in Window-eyes cannot easily be brought to the other screen-readers. One thing it has going for it is that it is completely customizable though. >If I were introducing someone to screenreaders for the first time, and >they were going to be a Windows user, I think I would begin with NVDA because it is free and, because most if not all of the skills you learn in NVDA can be brought over to Jaws if need be. I would move over to Jaws if the need arose or if the person needed more support and/or training than I could provide. I frankly can't think of a good reason why I would start with Window-eyes. >What do I use on Windows? Well, I use Jaws most of the time at home. >Jaws is what I am using right now to study for the bar and write this e-mail. I have been a Jaws customer for almost 20 years except for a 3 year period in the early 2000s when I used Window-eyes. At work, I have used a combination of NVDA and Window-eyes for the last 2 plus years (almost exclusively NVDA) because I couldn't justify the cost of Jaws to my employer. >I hope these thoughts are helpful to you. >Alex >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan >Kelly via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:29 AM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Cc: Susan Kelly >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >I use both, depending on what device I am using, and also prefer Voiceover. >That said, most legal firms, especially in my home state, are totally >invested in Windows / Microsoft type computers. For that, JAWS is likely the best. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody J. >Davis via blindlaw >Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 11:18 AM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Cc: Cody J. Davis >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Windows Eyes or JAWS? >If you are not set on a Windows computer, all Apple computers come with >a built-in screen reader called voiceover. I have found that voiceover is much easier to learn, at least it was for me. It seems to be more intuitive than JAWS. In high school I was taught how to use JAWS but it didn't really stick and I was very slow and limited with it. I think it really is a person by person basis though. I found quite a few YouTube videos that were helpful when deciding whether or not to switch from jaws to voice over. >Sent from my iPhone >> On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Ed Rizzuto via blindlaw >> >wrote: >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> >> >> I'm new to the world of screen reader technology and would appreciate >> any thoughts on whether Windows Eyes or JAWS are preferable for use >> in practicing law. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ed Rizzuto >> >> >> >> Edward Rizzuto >> >> Law Office of Edward Rizzuto >> >> 1280 East 9th Street, Suite D >> >> Chico, California 95928 >> >> (530) 899-9280 >> >> edrizzuto at edrizzutolaw.com >> >> www.edrizzutolaw.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40g >> m >> ail.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pim >a.gov >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmai >l.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pim >a.gov >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon >%40comcast.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pim >a.gov >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40 >visi.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From glnorman15 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 5 13:14:03 2015 From: glnorman15 at hotmail.com (GL Norman) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 09:14:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] A.D.A. 25: Lessons in Leadership and Leadership on 8 July Message-ID: A.D.A. 25: Lessons in Leadership and Legacy, http://www.disabilityleadership25.org/ Free skills-based conversation intended at amplifying the anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act through provision of substantive training Co-hosted by Gary C. Norman, Esq. L.L.M. ; and by Angela Fox, Esq. in Wash. D.C. Current Media sponsor: W.Y.P.R. Major contributing trainers: Partnership for Public Service; and the Stoop From taiablas at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 15:49:25 2015 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Tomasi) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 10:49:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] BARBRI Accessibility Issues Message-ID: <013401d09fa7$33add710$9b098530$@gmail.com> Is anyone currently enrolled in BARBRI having accessibility issues? Several components of the study program, namely Essay Architect and the online MPQ question sets are inaccessible to screen reader users. Although the MPQ sets are somewhat accessible within the BARBRI iOS app, there are still great access issues. I have laid out specific accessibility problems in a detailed email to BARBRI but am wondering how others are faring with it this year. While BARBRI has made some things accessible in alternative formats, their offerings are increasingly dependent on the use of online components that are inaccessible. From my perspective, their Band-aid solutions seem insufficient. Best, Tai From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Jun 5 17:03:09 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 12:03:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] The biggest hurdle for lawyers with disabilities: preconceptions, ABA Journal, June 1 2015 In-Reply-To: <41370810CEBD1C4DA64C9361CE1623410110B781204A@EDUPTCEXMB01.ed.gov> References: <41370810CEBD1C4DA64C9361CE1623410110B781204A@EDUPTCEXMB01.ed.gov> Message-ID: <04F1893C93758F4AA7CB436BB2675066014EB25B0438@EDUPTCEXMB02.ed.gov> Link: http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/the_biggest_hurdle_for_lawyers_with_disabilities_preconceptions/?utm_campaign=weekly_email&utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&job_id=150603AV Text: The biggest hurdle for lawyers with disabilities: preconceptions Posted Jun 01, 2015 05:50 am CDT By Terry Carter Photo by Wayne Slezak A few years ago, a young associate in the Chicago office of Schiff Hardin asked senior partner Max Brittain for advice. She was often late with assignments, especially the big ones, but didn't want the partner she worked with to know she had been diagnosed with attention deficit disorder and was taking medication for it. "I finally convinced her that she was digging a hole she'd never get out of if she didn't come forward," Brittain says. "It was hurting her career." Brittain is a prominent management-side employment litigator in the 400-lawyer firm, but the slight irony ends there. After he had become established in his field, Brittain suffered serious problems related to the late onset of Type 1 diabetes. He underwent a radical surgical procedure in 1995 to stop hemorrhaging in his eyes, which left him with limited vision, he says, "like looking out an airplane window going through a cloud." Six years later, he lost his left leg below the knee and grew hard of hearing. Years ago the firm began accommodating Brittain, 67, a rainmaker who among other things needs a driver and can read only large print. So the associate went to him with her problem. "I was able to approach the powers that be and say the strikes against her work aren't right," he says. "I told them she's a very bright lawyer and we need to deal with her ADD differently than we do with other lawyers." The solution: Break assignments into pieces so as not to overwhelm her. Rather than task her with drafting a brief in two weeks, ask for a statement of facts in three days; then a research memo; and finally a statement of law. It worked. "There is a stigma attached to something when people really don't know much about it-in this instance, mental disabilities," says Brittain, who recently lost his other leg. "Getting them to come forward is the biggest issue." Max Brittain is a senior partner and litigator at Schiff Hardin. Photo by Wayne Slezak. A RARE PRESENCE Brittain's own disabilities, particularly in combination, are still a rare presence at big law firms, or any firm for that matter-and obviously Schiff Hardin's willingness to increase accommodations for him stems at least in part from his proven ability, before and after his disabilities, to bring in work and get it done. Many lawyers with disabilities still end up where they always were: channeled toward government work, advocacy organizations or solo and small-firm employment, often with disability-related practices. Over the past couple of decades, technological and medical advances have made it much easier (or in some instances, possible) for lawyers with disabilities to perform ordinary tasks in legal work. There are devices and software that read digital documents to the blind, refreshable Braille machines that can provide real-time communication, and instant transcripts on computer screens for the deaf-even in court hearings with direct feeds from stenographers. But at the same time, old attitudes and perceptions have been slow to lose their grasp. "We're still often looked at as a delicate flower or damaged, and that makes it hard to be part of the diverse fabric of the workforce," says Stuart Pixley, a senior attorney at Microsoft Corp. in Redmond, Washington, specializing in patent licensing transactions. Pixley formerly worked in three big law firms, including a partnership at the megafirm Baker & McKenzie. He has cerebral palsy and uses an electric wheelchair and hearing aids. Though he succeeded in law practice, Pixley felt isolated and discouraged in the firms. "I don't remember seeing anyone who looked like me." Pixley adds that Microsoft is so systematically intensive about building "an understanding of disabilities through cultural competence" rather than through gestures of political correctness, that "I have an idyllic world here." The unintended marginalization in big firms was as simple as a social function. As a summer associate in New York City at Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy in the mid-1990s, for example, Pixley wasn't asked how he might negotiate the 2 miles from the office to a cocktail party at a Mexican restaurant in SoHo. The firm, where he later would work full time for two years as an associate, rented a yellow school bus to pick him up and drop him off. "It came late and eventually I showed up when a few people were still there," Pixley says of the transportation spectacle. "But there I was in a suit and getting off a school bus at a law firm function. They didn't know exactly how to get me there and were reluctant to say 'take a public bus,' which they probably should have done." Other, more problematic misunderstandings hurt his acceptance as a team member, even as a partner. Pixley once was asked at a large gathering by a partner-a friend-how well the hearing aids helped him. Not great in such a setting, but not bad when using the telephone, he replied, which is how a lot of communication with clients is done. "I told him I ask them to repeat things now and then, and that my theory is to be light-handed and comfortable with that," Pixley recalls. "But then [some in the firm] became afraid that if I let folks know I have a hearing impairment and asked them to repeat themselves too many times, that they might literally fear being double-billed." A senior attorney at Microsoft, Stuart Pixley specializes in patent licensing transactions. Photo by Chris Joseph Kalinko. UNKNOWN NUMBERS The number of lawyers with disabilities is hard to determine. Unlike race, gender, ethnicity and, more recently, sexual orientation, there is little reporting on them. Only two state bars-those in Oregon and Washington-have done tallies, and still that is self-reporting. Some lawyers won't do so; some others don't see themselves as disabled. And the definition of disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act is fast expanding, largely via the hottest area: mental health impairments. In an ABA membership survey in 2013, 8 percent of the lawyers answered in the affirmative when asked whether they have disabilities. A 2012 survey by the Washington State Bar Association found that 21 percent of its members said so. The National Association for Law Placement found that just one-third of 1 percent of law firm partners reported having disabilities in its 2014 survey, which was slightly higher than a few years earlier. Associates with disabilities composed just 0.28 percent, also slightly higher than before. The figures were based on data from 740 law offices and firms (including some reporting zero disabilities) encompassing 73,081 lawyers. Whatever the totals, they are increasing, as is the number of law students seeking accommodations for disabilities. Many of them have been coming together in a disability rights movement, including solo practitioners who represent others in accessibility cases under the ADA, law firms and advocacy groups specializing in disability law, and law firm lawyers who work pro bono. The networking in those efforts has led to an increase in organized bar groups, such as the Disability Rights Bar Association, launched in 2006 by abled and disabled lawyers, academics, and nonprofit law and disability advocacy groups; the recently formed National Association of Attorneys with Disabilities; and the National Association of Law Students with Disabilities, started in 2007 with help from the ABA's Individual Rights and Responsibilities Section. 'WE'RE FIGHTING BACK' "The ADA has been in effect since 1990, and people with disabilities are fed up with so much failure to follow it," says William Goren, who is passionately outspoken and whose solo practice based in Decatur, Georgia, is built around advising companies and litigants on the ADA and other disability law topics. "So we're not as willing to get rolled as we used to be. We're fighting back." Goren, 54, is deaf, but uses powerful hearing aids that lessen his hearing loss to only 40 percent; thus, functionally, he is considered hard of hearing. In his 30s, Goren developed debilitating joint problems and is unable to use a computer keyboard or mouse. "I can't use a computer without voice dictation," he says. "And I can't tell you how many software programs I've bought that turned out not to be accessible with voice-dictation technology." Goren is a prolific writer of books and scholarly articles, as well as on his blog Understanding the Americans with Disabilities Act, which made the ABA Journal's Blawg 100 for 2014. His authoritative book of the same name, published by the ABA, is in its fourth edition. Goren founded the National Association of Attorneys with Disabilities in 2013 along with seven other executive board members, including Pixley of Microsoft. (Pixley also is one of 15 appointed members of the ABA Commission on Disability Rights, which collaborates with many organizations.) The NAAD, just finishing its organizational and structural stage, is a cross-disability group for developing a national voice in matters of accessibility and other civil rights, as well as pushing for inclusion in diversity efforts in the judiciary and elsewhere. Something of a critical mass has formed to press for disability rights in general. In recent years there has been a cascade of incremental progress, such as rulings or agreements concerning the likes of Netflix (closed-captioning for the deaf), eBay and Target (website access for the blind), and Scribd (see "Sites for Sore Eyes," February, page 15). "I'm primarily dealing with the digital version of no wheelchair ramp," says Tim Elder, a Fremont, California, lawyer who is blind and has a solo practice focused on the intersection of technology and disability rights law, especially concerning startup companies and innovative technology. "We're moving toward a more virtual workspace, and rather than focus on reasonable accommodations, we need to take the same approach as with physical buildings and think about how we're designing this virtual space." It is much easier to build accessibility into software when it is developed than later, much like putting an elevator in a 20-story building during its construction rather than afterward. Elder, 35, is involved in litigation nationwide, with cases including Marriott hotels' use of enterprise software inaccessible to the blind and Uber car service, whose drivers sometimes refuse to take service animals. He is one of an increasing number of lawyers with disabilities who are active in leadership positions in the organized bar. Elder came up through the ABA's Young Lawyers Division and-in a significant gain for the disability rights movement-is a member of the ABA's Standing Committee on Technology and Information Systems, which deals with accessibility, among other issues. More than once, Elder says, he has been recruited to work ADA cases on the defense side. "I have no problem working with management if they're trying to do the right thing, but this is more fulfilling and frankly more interesting substantively for me. And I have more work to do than bandwidth to do it." The practice area is white-hot. Since he began teaching disability law a dozen years ago, Michael Waterstone has seen a huge increase in numbers of students-abled and disabled-who come to him interested in such a practice. "This is a growing area with a lot of legal work for both sides, plaintiff and defendant," says Waterstone, now at the Loyola School of Law in Los Angeles. "It's reached the point where I increasingly tell law students with disabilities that if they want to make it their life's work, fine, but don't feel like you need to do it." In fact, Waterstone sees an even greater need for lawyers with disabilities to enter and rise to the top levels of major law firms. Waterstone's mentor when he was an associate at the Los Angeles-based litigation powerhouse Munger, Tolles & Olson was the late Charles Siegal, who wore leg braces as a result of polio and did pro bono work on disability rights matters. "I was able to see how he could do more in some ways for the movement than a lawyer similarly situated doing strictly public interest work," Waterstone says. "Because of who he was, he could call people in positions of power and get them interested in disability issues." The Washington, D.C., municipal government now includes closed-captioning in videos posted on its website, thanks to the pro bono efforts of deaf law partner Melissa Felder Zappala. Photo by David Fonda. EARLY LOSSES For many years ADA cases did not fare well in the courts, with the tone set at the top of the federal judiciary: Four appeals made it to the U.S. Supreme Court, which saw none that it liked. In fact, Congress passed the Americans with Disabilities Amendments Act in 2008 expressly to overturn two of those cases that had narrowed the scope of what qualifies as a disability under the ADA. Hundreds of cases brought after the amendments went into effect in 2009 are now working their ways through the courts. Many fewer plaintiffs are losing summary judgment motions on the definitions of disability and whether they are disabled; more substantive issues are now being thrashed out. Judges are delving into such issues as whether plaintiffs are capable of doing the job with accommodation or whether such accommodation puts undue hardship on the employer, according to Stephen Befort, a University of Minnesota Law School professor who did an empirical study of ADA cases between January 2010 and April 2013. "Over the next few years we're going to see some pivotal decisions," says Waterstone, the Loyola law professor. Some critics have complained that disability rights litigation is too diffuse, that there is need for greater coordination and focus so as to produce an equivalent of the very carefully orchestrated Brown v. Board of Education case, the 1954 Supreme Court ruling that ended racial segregation in public schools. "But I have a hard time counting to five for a pro-disability rights decision," says Daniel Goldstein of Baltimore's Brown, Goldstein & Levy, alluding to the current makeup of the high court. "So why not design something with the intent to get results at the federal circuit court level?" Goldstein, a member of the ABA's Commission on Disability Rights and founder in 2006 of what now is the Disability Rights Bar Association, argued such a case at the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at Richmond, Virginia, in February. In Reyazuddin v. Montgomery County, he challenged a Maryland county government's purchase of an enterprise software system that is inaccessible to the blind and thus makes them unemployable. A lot of cases are brought simply because a problem exists and someone takes an interest. Melissa Felder Zappala, a deaf partner in the Washington, D.C., office of the talent-magnet litigation and corporate firm Boies, Schiller & Flexner, recently worked pro bono on a lawsuit against the D.C. government for posting videos that lacked closed-captioning on its website. She brought in her father, Barry Felder, a litigation partner at Foley & Lardner in New York City, to join forces with the Washington Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights and Urban Affairs. The city settled, agreeing to use captioning going forward. After her first year at Georgetown University Law Center, Zappala interned at the National Association of the Deaf's Law and Advocacy Center and became interested in a career in disability law. The following year, as a summer associate at Boies Schiller, she grew fond of analyzing complex commercial litigation matters well enough to box in the other side. "I prefer to do disability rights pro bono," says Zappala, who speaks on phone calls and can read the other person's responses immediately, via a third-party service, on her office computer screen. She can usually also hear the other person thanks to a cochlear implant and residual hearing. Zappala gets similar readouts on a computer screen at depositions and court hearings, though it is largely backup because she also reads lips. The implant, done on her worst ear, was a gamble Zappala took between law school and coming to the firm. Had it failed, she might have lost all hearing in that ear. Waterstone welcomes efforts such as Zappala's but believes a long-term, big-case strategy still is needed. He says states like Connecticut have constitutional equal-protection clauses that go beyond what is available in the federal system, providing heightened scrutiny in disability matters. "I would like to see more aggressive activity pushing the bounds of favorable state law," says Waterstone, "and over time set precedent that a more rigorous review of state laws that draw lines on the basis of disability is not such a terrible thing." Even if there were such a forward-looking approach, as the ADA hits its 25th anniversary this year, the old brick-and-mortar battles continue. While Elder says he's dealing now with the digital version of curb ramps, problems remain real where wheelchair rubber meets those curbs. "We could go to almost any city and I guarantee I could find, within 1 square mile, 15 corners in violation," says Tim Fox, a Denver lawyer who in 1986 was paralyzed from the shoulders down while playing rugby in college. "The cities still weren't paying attention after the ADA was passed." Fox was in his second year at Stanford Law School when the legislation went into effect in 1990. Later he and his wife, Amy Robertson, whom he met when they were associates at what now is Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale & Dorr in D.C., opened a litigation firm in Denver specializing in disability rights cases. In 2013 they folded Fox & Robertson and launched the Civil Rights Education and Enforcement Center. Still litigating, they added flexibility for efforts such as educational presentations for advocacy groups. CREEC is now in negotiations with three cities, all with populations greater than 1 million, to make curbs accessible. A NEW ISSUE: THE BRAIN The fastest-expanding and sharpest-edged issue for diversity in the legal profession concerns mental disabilities, such as ADD, bipolar disorder and depression. Lawyers are 3.6 times more likely than others to suffer depression, according to a 1990 Johns Hopkins University study. Even as more employers recruit lawyers with sight, hearing and mobility problems, they still recoil at dealing with what they see as unknowable possibilities of a disabled mind. The fact that these impairments are often treatable and manageable is overshadowed by social stigma and lack of understanding. The U.S. Department of Justice recently has drawn some bright lines to sort fact from surmise. Last August the DOJ announced a settlement with the Louisiana Supreme Court, which agreed to stop asking bar applicants, in violation of the ADA, about mental health diagnosis and treatment. Now the court will seek such information only when there is evidence of a problem that affects the applicant's competency, ethics or professional manner. The court also agreed to pay $200,000 to some bar applicants and lawyers. Justice has its eye on similar issues in Connecticut and Vermont. A few months earlier, the Law School Admission Council settled with the DOJ, which had intervened in a class action alleging that LSAC accommodations for the disabled were denied routinely for the Law School Admission Test, and that the council flagged the test scores of those who were accommodated so law schools would know they had been given extra time. Under the settlement, the LSAC agreed to streamline and professionalize review of accommodation requests and cease flagging of scores. Without admitting liability, the council agreed to pay $7.73 million. "The interesting paradox is that there are lots of high-incidence conditions protected by the ADA that are not visible or obvious," says Andrew Imparato, who is up front about his periodic depression and has done high-level policy work on mental health issues, including three years as senior counsel and disability policy director for U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin, D.-Iowa, when Harkin chaired the Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions. "Depression, anxiety and obsessive compulsive disorder are three common characteristics that exist in every law firm." But when a lawyer with one or more of those difficulties comes out about it, many firms are quick to worry about client perceptions. "The reality is that firms are dealing with this whether it's in the open or not," says Imparato, now executive director of the Association of University Centers on Disabilities. "If high-level people start talking openly about depression or whatever, it changes the culture." Imparato suffered his first serious episode of depression in his final semester at Stanford Law School, and he entered the profession adjusting to a new diagnosis of being bipolar. He immediately went into public-interest work in disability law, which made it easier to be open from the start. His impairment is predictable. Imparato's energy and self-confidence diminish for about five or six months each year, and his method for dealing with it might bring a smile to a hiring partner: "I try to stay busy. My worst days are when I don't have enough to do." FUNDAMENTAL SHIFT Attitudes and perceptions have long been the fly in most ointments. And a fundamental shift is underway as some law firms, such as Schiff Hardin, take the lead in considering lawyers with disabilities as a minority group-not as people deserving pity or charity. As with other groups, individuals range from the mediocre to the superstar in a profession whose core requirements are knowledge, analytical skill and judgment. At Brittain's request a few years ago, his firm (as do a handful of others) has a so-called affinity group for lawyers with disabilities among its various diversity efforts, along with those for race, gender and ethnicity. The dearth of individuals with disabilities in the legal profession prompted the ABA Commission on Disability Rights in 2009 to proffer a pledge for committing to support disability rights. It is titled Disability Diversity in the Legal Profession: A Pledge for Change (PDF). It is a commitment to help ensure that lawyers with disabilities are given a fair chance at work in the profession, and to better reflect the diversity of communities, clients and customers. The more than 175 signatories thus far include law firms, law schools, corporations, organized bar groups and others. When a lawyer with a disability applies for a job, too often the first question concerns what he or she can't do, rather than what they can. "I don't think we talk enough about enabling excellence, enabling people to bring their A game," Pixley says. "I want to bring my A game." This article originally appeared in the June 2015 issue of the ABA Journal with this headline: "Able: The biggest hurdle for lawyers with disabilities: preconceptions." Sidebar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott LaBarre says that creating searchable PDF text is not difficult, expensive or too much to ask. Photo courtesy of Scott LaBarre. A PDF Battle Won In late 2002, then-61-year-old Tom Ross had minor abdominal surgery that was botched and left him blind from sepsis. It was four months before he regained consciousness and three years before he could resume his commercial real estate transactions practice at the 600-lawyer firm Akerman. After retiring in 2009, Ross, who had only occasionally ventured into courtrooms over four decades, represented a friend, also a real estate lawyer, in a suit against Windermere, Florida, a small town in suburban Orlando, over drainage problems. Ross was incensed that documents produced by the judge and the town's lawyers often were static-form PDFs-scanned visual images of documents-rather than dynamic PDFs with searchable text. When he ran the digital files through the screen reader on his computer, which can turn text into speech, it told him nothing was there. His repeated complaints to the judge and clerk of the Orange County circuit court were unavailing. Opposing counsel gave him no quarter. "At the end of my career and trying to help someone, not making any money on it, and dealing with a bunch of Neanderthals who haven't got the professional courtesy to be decent, it just pissed me off," says Ross, speaking of opposing counsel. Well-known in his field, resourceful and persistent, Ross complained to the U.S. Department of Justice. Against the odds, it acted: Last July the DOJ announced a settlement with the Orange County clerk of courts for ADA violations. The court now will provide any document of record in an accessible format and ensure the court's website is accessible to those with disabilities. Ross got $10,000 for his trouble. The underlying suit had settled: $200,000 in legal fees for Ross; $185,000 in damages for his client. And, Ross estimates, close to $1 million was paid by Windermere and its insurer for their own lawyers. The original request had been for a mere $25,000 fix on the drainage problem. "My point is that even though I can afford $900 software that could crack those PDFs, it's not fair because not every young lawyer can afford it, and some law firms can't," Ross says. While the feds came to his rescue in Florida state court, Ross would have no luck if he were to go after the federal judiciary. Federal judges might preside over ADA cases, but they're not subject to the law because it pertains only to state and local employers. But most federal courts present the same problem: The notoriously dull-edge PACER system often provides static PDFs that are inaccessible to the blind. Creating PDFs that have searchable text is not difficult, not expensive and not too much to ask, says Scott LaBarre, a Denver lawyer who is blind and is a former chair of the ABA Commission on Disability Rights. "The expectation is that everything now is born digital; and if it is, we ought to have a way to get at it through screen readers or other devices," LaBarre says. "I have some tools to deploy and can ask my secretary to run it through software to make it accessible, but that takes time, and time is money." The Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts has no standards for PDFs, but is working to improve accessibility for blind users as it develops NextGen, the next generation version of case management/electronic case files software, a spokesman says. Early adopters of NextGen, the 2nd and 9th U.S. circuit courts of appeal at New York City and San Francisco, respectively, now require text-searchable PDFs, except for attached exhibits. From samarositz at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 22:36:55 2015 From: samarositz at gmail.com (Stephen Alexander Marositz) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 15:36:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] BARBRI Accessibility Issues In-Reply-To: <013401d09fa7$33add710$9b098530$@gmail.com> References: <013401d09fa7$33add710$9b098530$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002301d09fe0$21015310$6303f930$@gmail.com> Hi Tai Yes, I've found the same thing but I am not sure what to do about it aside from work almost exclusively from the pdf books instead of the website. Thanks for confirming. Alex -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 8:49 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tai Tomasi Subject: [blindlaw] BARBRI Accessibility Issues Is anyone currently enrolled in BARBRI having accessibility issues? Several components of the study program, namely Essay Architect and the online MPQ question sets are inaccessible to screen reader users. Although the MPQ sets are somewhat accessible within the BARBRI iOS app, there are still great access issues. I have laid out specific accessibility problems in a detailed email to BARBRI but am wondering how others are faring with it this year. While BARBRI has made some things accessible in alternative formats, their offerings are increasingly dependent on the use of online components that are inaccessible. From my perspective, their Band-aid solutions seem insufficient. Best, Tai _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com From emrene at earthlink.net Sun Jun 7 15:12:20 2015 From: emrene at earthlink.net (Elizabeth Rene) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2015 09:12:20 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues Message-ID: <000f01d0a134$5ce7c990$8c0fa8c0@yourpc79505e9b> Hi all, Why not check out BarMax instead of BarBri? The whole course is IOS and Windows based, and they're great at helping to resolve accessibility glitches. Its thousands of dollars cheaper, you get good tech support and personalized essay review, the outlines are clear and digestable, you can study outside on your iPad if you want to, and you get a big discount if you're retaking your exam. They want you to pass! I liked BarBri for Washington's essay-based exam, but BarMax can't be beat for accessibility in my view. Their focus is California, New York, the UBE, the MBE and MPRE, and, I think now, Texas. Worth a look. Elizabeth Rene From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jun 8 15:41:30 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 10:41:30 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04F1893C93758F4AA7CB436BB2675066014EB25B0494@EDUPTCEXMB02.ed.gov> From: Jobs [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia via Jobs Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 8:20 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Cc: Maurer, Patricia Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) [mailto:DOJlawjobs at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 9:12 AM Subject: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website: http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. At Justice, diversity extends beyond race and gender. It includes differences in culture, ethnicity, economics, status as a veteran, generations, geography, sexual orientation, and includes individuals with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice, and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. What's new? New Mobile App! Get the latest information about legal careers at Justice with our mobile app, DOJ Law Jobs. Users can quickly and easily create personalized job searches based on practice area, geographic preference, and hiring organization. DOJ Law Jobs is available for free on iTunes for Apple iPhone and iPad, and the Play Store for Android devices. The U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Attorney Recruitment and Management, continuously updates its outreach list for the distribution of attorney and legal intern vacancy announcements. If you would like to continue receiving these emails from the Department of Justice, please respond to this email with UPDATE in the subject line and provide the updated contact information listed below. If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. USAO Northern District of West Virginia Assistant United States Attorney/Branch Office Supervisor WV 06/04/2015 USAO Southern District of Georgia Special Assistant United States Attorney - Criminal Division GA 06/04/2015 Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Attorney Advisor TX 06/03/2015 USAO Eastern District of California Uncompensated Special Assistant United States Attorney (SAUSA) CA 06/03/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Regional Legal Advisor- Reimbursable Detail - East Asia and Pacific 06/03/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Resident Legal Advisor- Reimbursable Detail- Kyrgyzstan 06/03/2015 USAO Eastern District of California Uncompensated Special Assistant United States Attorney (SAUSA) CA 06/03/2015 USAO Northern District of Iowa Assistant United States Attorney (AUSA) IA 06/02/2015 USAO Northern District of Texas Assistant United States Attorney TX 06/02/2015 USAO District of Nevada Attorney NV 06/02/2015 USAO Western District of North Carolina Assistant United States Attorney NC 06/02/2015 USAO District of Kansas Assistant United States Attorney KS 06/02/2015 United States Trustee Program (USTP) Trial Attorney MI 06/01/2015 USAO Western District of New York Assistant United States Attorney NY 06/01/2015 Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) Attorney Advisor DC 06/01/2015 USAO Eastern District of Oklahoma Assistant United States Attorney OK 06/01/2015 SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From taiablas at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 21:19:17 2015 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Tomasi) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 16:19:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] BARBRI Accessibility Issues In-Reply-To: <002301d09fe0$21015310$6303f930$@gmail.com> References: <013401d09fa7$33add710$9b098530$@gmail.com> <002301d09fe0$21015310$6303f930$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02c501d0a230$c8011b30$58035190$@gmail.com> Alex, I would like to discuss your experiences further off list. Please email me off list at tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com or call me at (515) 710-4402. Best, Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 5:37 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz Subject: Re: [blindlaw] BARBRI Accessibility Issues Hi Tai Yes, I've found the same thing but I am not sure what to do about it aside from work almost exclusively from the pdf books instead of the website. Thanks for confirming. Alex -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 8:49 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tai Tomasi Subject: [blindlaw] BARBRI Accessibility Issues Is anyone currently enrolled in BARBRI having accessibility issues? Several components of the study program, namely Essay Architect and the online MPQ question sets are inaccessible to screen reader users. Although the MPQ sets are somewhat accessible within the BARBRI iOS app, there are still great access issues. I have laid out specific accessibility problems in a detailed email to BARBRI but am wondering how others are faring with it this year. While BARBRI has made some things accessible in alternative formats, their offerings are increasingly dependent on the use of online components that are inaccessible. From my perspective, their Band-aid solutions seem insufficient. Best, Tai _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From taiablas at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 21:22:22 2015 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Tomasi) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 16:22:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues In-Reply-To: <000f01d0a134$5ce7c990$8c0fa8c0@yourpc79505e9b> References: <000f01d0a134$5ce7c990$8c0fa8c0@yourpc79505e9b> Message-ID: <02d401d0a231$35955260$a0bff720$@gmail.com> Elizabeth, Thank you for this information. However, it is much too late and far too costly for July bar applicants to change course and start studying with a new bar prep company. I will keep this information in mind for future bar examinees. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene via blindlaw Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 10:12 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Elizabeth Rene Subject: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues Hi all, Why not check out BarMax instead of BarBri? The whole course is IOS and Windows based, and they're great at helping to resolve accessibility glitches. Its thousands of dollars cheaper, you get good tech support and personalized essay review, the outlines are clear and digestable, you can study outside on your iPad if you want to, and you get a big discount if you're retaking your exam. They want you to pass! I liked BarBri for Washington's essay-based exam, but BarMax can't be beat for accessibility in my view. Their focus is California, New York, the UBE, the MBE and MPRE, and, I think now, Texas. Worth a look. Elizabeth Rene _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From samarositz at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 01:54:12 2015 From: samarositz at gmail.com (Stephen Alexander Marositz) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 18:54:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues In-Reply-To: <02d401d0a231$35955260$a0bff720$@gmail.com> References: <000f01d0a134$5ce7c990$8c0fa8c0@yourpc79505e9b> <02d401d0a231$35955260$a0bff720$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000401d0a257$31464e50$93d2eaf0$@gmail.com> Hi Elizabeth At least for me, I really didn't have much of a choice. My law school (I went to a part-time, evening, program so I could work fulltime) heavily subsidized Barbri such that it was far less expensive for me to use Barbri than anything else. Thanks for the info though. I'll be sure to pass it on if it comes up. Alex -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 2:22 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tai Tomasi Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues Elizabeth, Thank you for this information. However, it is much too late and far too costly for July bar applicants to change course and start studying with a new bar prep company. I will keep this information in mind for future bar examinees. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene via blindlaw Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 10:12 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Elizabeth Rene Subject: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues Hi all, Why not check out BarMax instead of BarBri? The whole course is IOS and Windows based, and they're great at helping to resolve accessibility glitches. Its thousands of dollars cheaper, you get good tech support and personalized essay review, the outlines are clear and digestable, you can study outside on your iPad if you want to, and you get a big discount if you're retaking your exam. They want you to pass! I liked BarBri for Washington's essay-based exam, but BarMax can't be beat for accessibility in my view. Their focus is California, New York, the UBE, the MBE and MPRE, and, I think now, Texas. Worth a look. Elizabeth Rene _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com From withat at msn.com Tue Jun 9 15:02:02 2015 From: withat at msn.com (Johnston) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 08:02:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues References: <000f01d0a134$5ce7c990$8c0fa8c0@yourpc79505e9b><02d401d0a231$35955260$a0bff720$@gmail.com> <000401d0a257$31464e50$93d2eaf0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: My experience has been that the BarBri website is not fully accessible (particularly in terms of page-to-page navigation). However, the ADA people have done everything humanly possible to make effective accommodations. As an example, They have given me direct links to pages that can't be accessed from the main page after logging on. If you're already enrolled, I recommend contacting the ADA office about any accessibility issues that you're experiencing. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw" To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" Cc: "Stephen Alexander Marositz" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues > Hi Elizabeth > > At least for me, I really didn't have much of a choice. My law school (I > went to a part-time, evening, program so I could work fulltime) heavily > subsidized Barbri such that it was far less expensive for me to use Barbri > than anything else. > > Thanks for the info though. I'll be sure to pass it on if it comes up. > > Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai > Tomasi > via blindlaw > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 2:22 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Tai Tomasi > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues > > Elizabeth, > > Thank you for this information. However, it is much too late and far too > costly for July bar applicants to change course and start studying with a > new bar prep company. I will keep this information in mind for future bar > examinees. > > Tai > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth > Rene via blindlaw > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 10:12 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: Elizabeth Rene > Subject: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues > > Hi all, > > Why not check out BarMax instead of BarBri? The whole course is IOS and > Windows based, and they're great at helping to resolve accessibility > glitches. Its thousands of dollars cheaper, you get good tech support and > personalized essay review, the outlines are clear and digestable, you can > study outside on your iPad if you want to, and you get a big discount if > you're retaking your exam. They want you to pass! > I liked BarBri for Washington's essay-based exam, but BarMax can't be beat > for accessibility in my view. Their focus is California, New York, the > UBE, > the MBE and MPRE, and, I think now, Texas. Worth a look. > > Elizabeth Rene > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com > From glnorman15 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 9 19:07:00 2015 From: glnorman15 at hotmail.com (GLNorman) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 15:07:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] A.D.A. 25 Message-ID: Register on-line for A.D.A. 25: Lessons in Leadership and Legacy on July 8, http://www.disabilityleadership25.org/ada25-lessons-in-leadership-and-legacy /. Co-hosted by Gary C. Norman, Esq. L.L.M.; and by Angela Fox, Esq. in Washington D.C. Constitution Center, 400 7th Street S.W. (L'Enfant Metro exit) Media sponsor: W.Y.P.R From tim at timeldermusic.com Tue Jun 9 19:59:10 2015 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 12:59:10 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues In-Reply-To: <02d401d0a231$35955260$a0bff720$@gmail.com> References: <000f01d0a134$5ce7c990$8c0fa8c0@yourpc79505e9b> <02d401d0a231$35955260$a0bff720$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <008501d0a2ee$c06d0230$41470690$@timeldermusic.com> Some view BARBRI as the premium bar prep option. -----Original Message----- From: Tai Tomasi [mailto:taiablas at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 2:22 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues Elizabeth, Thank you for this information. However, it is much too late and far too costly for July bar applicants to change course and start studying with a new bar prep company. I will keep this information in mind for future bar examinees. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene via blindlaw Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 10:12 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Elizabeth Rene Subject: [blindlaw] Re BarBri accessibility issues Hi all, Why not check out BarMax instead of BarBri? The whole course is IOS and Windows based, and they're great at helping to resolve accessibility glitches. Its thousands of dollars cheaper, you get good tech support and personalized essay review, the outlines are clear and digestable, you can study outside on your iPad if you want to, and you get a big discount if you're retaking your exam. They want you to pass! I liked BarBri for Washington's essay-based exam, but BarMax can't be beat for accessibility in my view. Their focus is California, New York, the UBE, the MBE and MPRE, and, I think now, Texas. Worth a look. Elizabeth Rene _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From philosopher25 at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 20:33:05 2015 From: philosopher25 at gmail.com (Sexton, bruce) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 12:33:05 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies Message-ID: <003d01d0a2f3$7e9b1630$7bd14290$@gmail.com> Hello List, What study strategies did you find useful while in law school? I have a windows 8 laptop with JAWS 16. I will be using dream reader on the phone and a braille note taker with a qwerty keyboard. I cannot read braille very fast, so will rely mostly on speech. Any tips and tricks are welcome. -Bruce From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 23:26:24 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (Anita Keith-Foust) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 19:26:24 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies In-Reply-To: <003d01d0a2f3$7e9b1630$7bd14290$@gmail.com> References: <003d01d0a2f3$7e9b1630$7bd14290$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000f01d0a30b$b45a02f0$1d0e08d0$@gmail.com> Dear All: I am interested in the tips offered to Bruce, and Bruce thank you for asking for tips. I think that we need an NFB workshop to help prepare us for mastering techniques for classes in law school. Maybe we can have workshops every summer. I know that these types of workshops (LSAT prep and law school class and study prep) for blind and low-vision students are really needed. How do we get this suggestion to those who can make it happen? Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sexton, bruce via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 4:33 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sexton, bruce Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies Hello List, What study strategies did you find useful while in law school? I have a windows 8 laptop with JAWS 16. I will be using dream reader on the phone and a braille note taker with a qwerty keyboard. I cannot read braille very fast, so will rely mostly on speech. Any tips and tricks are welcome. -Bruce _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Wed Jun 10 00:00:59 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:00:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies In-Reply-To: <000f01d0a30b$b45a02f0$1d0e08d0$@gmail.com> References: <003d01d0a2f3$7e9b1630$7bd14290$@gmail.com> <000f01d0a30b$b45a02f0$1d0e08d0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001301d0a310$8897ac30$99c70490$@icloud.com> Anita, Bruce, and All, This listserv is probably the best place to start. Best, Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 6:26 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Anita Keith-Foust Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Study Strategies Dear All: I am interested in the tips offered to Bruce, and Bruce thank you for asking for tips. I think that we need an NFB workshop to help prepare us for mastering techniques for classes in law school. Maybe we can have workshops every summer. I know that these types of workshops (LSAT prep and law school class and study prep) for blind and low-vision students are really needed. How do we get this suggestion to those who can make it happen? Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sexton, bruce via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 4:33 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sexton, bruce Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies Hello List, What study strategies did you find useful while in law school? I have a windows 8 laptop with JAWS 16. I will be using dream reader on the phone and a braille note taker with a qwerty keyboard. I cannot read braille very fast, so will rely mostly on speech. Any tips and tricks are welcome. -Bruce _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 00:03:20 2015 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 20:03:20 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies In-Reply-To: <003d01d0a2f3$7e9b1630$7bd14290$@gmail.com> References: <003d01d0a2f3$7e9b1630$7bd14290$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51CC8F74-5E8C-494D-A0EC-383944D382C4@gmail.com> Yes! Please post to the thread instead of directly so we all can see the answers given. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 9, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Sexton, bruce via blindlaw wrote: > > Hello List, > > > > What study strategies did you find useful while in law school? I have a > windows 8 laptop with JAWS 16. I will be using dream reader on the phone and > a braille note taker with a qwerty keyboard. I cannot read braille very > fast, so will rely mostly on speech. Any tips and tricks are welcome. > > > > -Bruce > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From aloshamoore at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 08:26:20 2015 From: aloshamoore at gmail.com (Alosha Moore) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:26:20 +1000 Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies In-Reply-To: <003d01d0a2f3$7e9b1630$7bd14290$@gmail.com> References: <003d01d0a2f3$7e9b1630$7bd14290$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6D0B7A3B-E207-4207-86A7-DD67E26163D1@gmail.com> Hi Bruce: I just completed my first year of law school and one of the methods that helped me understand and process information better in the earlier stages of classes was to look over a commercial outline. Commercial outlines tend to illustrate the major elements for a subject in a basic format. although most people use them to study for finals, they can be really useful just for understanding the information in the beginning stages of a class. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Alosha Moore. Sent from my iPhone. > On Jun 10, 2015, at 6:33 AM, Sexton, bruce via blindlaw wrote: > > Hello List, > > > > What study strategies did you find useful while in law school? I have a > windows 8 laptop with JAWS 16. I will be using dream reader on the phone and > a braille note taker with a qwerty keyboard. I cannot read braille very > fast, so will rely mostly on speech. Any tips and tricks are welcome. > > > > -Bruce > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aloshamoore%40gmail.com From chris.stewart at uky.edu Wed Jun 10 12:55:12 2015 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 08:55:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Study Tips for Law School Message-ID: Hi Bruce and List, I'm sorry for posting directly, but I receive the list posts in digest form and thought this would be a cleaner way to respond. I love the idea of doing a workshop at convention on studying smart in law school. I will definitely raise this question when I attend my first meeting of the blind lawyers section at convention this year. Now, here are my quick hits. First, for totally blind users, I strongly advise converting your openbook files into Word files. This is for two reasons. First, Word is easier to edit on the fly. And, second, I find navigation in smaller chuncks easier in Word. The main mistake to avoid is turning on your reading and just listening. This works in undergrad, but not law school. Second, outline as you go!! Do not be the person cramming at the end of the semester. You will pass, but you will not best your classmates, which is of course the goal in almost all law schools. So, every time you finish a section, say it's contracts, and you have just finished offer and acceptance. Sit down for a few hours and create an outline of all of the cases and information regarding offer and acceptance. Commercial outlines can help guide this inquiry, and I'll happily share mine, but there is no substitute for doing it yourself. Third, study your professor. I had a contracts teacher who was brilliant, but the information he wanted wasn't the information generally stressed in commercial study aids. Moreover, he could spot a commercial study aid answer a mile away. So, know what your professor wants. Fourth, and on a related note, talk to your professors. Schedule a couple of meetings throughout the semester and discuss the material. Make sure you understand what he's telling you, and make sure you can communicate the material clearly to him/her. Fifth, stay healthy. Find time to exercise no matter what. Eat well. Get sleep. If you are kind to your body, it will be kind to your brain. Sixth, talk to your classmates. Find people you really mesh with and form study groups. Bring your own outlines and form master outlines. Quiz each other. Find sample essay questions online or, where possible, old exams from your own professors. For anyone who is still reading, thank you. I have more suggestions, and I am happy to discuss them with anyone. This is a public list so I won't reveal my class rank, but it is high, and I'll happily discuss that as well on an individual basis. I hope this was useful. Best, Chris -- Chris K. Stewart University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 Ph: (502)457-1757 From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Jun 10 14:45:36 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:45:36 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Study Tips for Law School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a few added thoughts from someone who graduated a "few" years ago - yes, definitely outline as you go. I was lucky to still have fairly useful vision in law school, but I think this works whether by computer or by handwriting. I would outline the daily reading for each course before class, and then add whatever notes seemed appropriate during the day's lecture to that outline. Also, small study groups are very helpful - different people will catch different things in class, all of which are likely important. Also, we had at least one professor who would come in each morning and write lists on the whiteboard, which were never discussed in class and which were not in the assigned readings. Guess what was the major portion of our semester final? I would hope that no prof would do this with blind students, but sadly, one of my classmates already needed a white cane due to the effects of retinitis pigmentosa, and a woman in the class ahead of us required a braille machine to take her notes - thus, the prof should not have done this but because of tenure, was not taken to task over this habit. Having a study group ensures that someone else will be able to share notes on anything that ends up being disseminated in an inaccessible manner can be quickly and easily gotten. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:55 AM To: blindlaw Cc: Stewart, Christopher K Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Study Tips for Law School Hi Bruce and List, I'm sorry for posting directly, but I receive the list posts in digest form and thought this would be a cleaner way to respond. I love the idea of doing a workshop at convention on studying smart in law school. I will definitely raise this question when I attend my first meeting of the blind lawyers section at convention this year. Now, here are my quick hits. First, for totally blind users, I strongly advise converting your openbook files into Word files. This is for two reasons. First, Word is easier to edit on the fly. And, second, I find navigation in smaller chuncks easier in Word. The main mistake to avoid is turning on your reading and just listening. This works in undergrad, but not law school. Second, outline as you go!! Do not be the person cramming at the end of the semester. You will pass, but you will not best your classmates, which is of course the goal in almost all law schools. So, every time you finish a section, say it's contracts, and you have just finished offer and acceptance. Sit down for a few hours and create an outline of all of the cases and information regarding offer and acceptance. Commercial outlines can help guide this inquiry, and I'll happily share mine, but there is no substitute for doing it yourself. Third, study your professor. I had a contracts teacher who was brilliant, but the information he wanted wasn't the information generally stressed in commercial study aids. Moreover, he could spot a commercial study aid answer a mile away. So, know what your professor wants. Fourth, and on a related note, talk to your professors. Schedule a couple of meetings throughout the semester and discuss the material. Make sure you understand what he's telling you, and make sure you can communicate the material clearly to him/her. Fifth, stay healthy. Find time to exercise no matter what. Eat well. Get sleep. If you are kind to your body, it will be kind to your brain. Sixth, talk to your classmates. Find people you really mesh with and form study groups. Bring your own outlines and form master outlines. Quiz each other. Find sample essay questions online or, where possible, old exams from your own professors. For anyone who is still reading, thank you. I have more suggestions, and I am happy to discuss them with anyone. This is a public list so I won't reveal my class rank, but it is high, and I'll happily discuss that as well on an individual basis. I hope this was useful. Best, Chris -- Chris K. Stewart University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 Ph: (502)457-1757 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From tim at timeldermusic.com Wed Jun 10 21:12:04 2015 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:12:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies In-Reply-To: <000f01d0a30b$b45a02f0$1d0e08d0$@gmail.com> References: <003d01d0a2f3$7e9b1630$7bd14290$@gmail.com> <000f01d0a30b$b45a02f0$1d0e08d0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <014701d0a3c2$19e4c3b0$4dae4b10$@timeldermusic.com> Be sure to come to the blind lawyers meeting at NFB's national convention this July. You will meet recent law grads and attorneys who can freely share their experiences at the reception. -----Original Message----- From: Anita Keith-Foust [mailto:anitakeithfoust at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 4:26 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Study Strategies Dear All: I am interested in the tips offered to Bruce, and Bruce thank you for asking for tips. I think that we need an NFB workshop to help prepare us for mastering techniques for classes in law school. Maybe we can have workshops every summer. I know that these types of workshops (LSAT prep and law school class and study prep) for blind and low-vision students are really needed. How do we get this suggestion to those who can make it happen? Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sexton, bruce via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 4:33 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sexton, bruce Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies Hello List, What study strategies did you find useful while in law school? I have a windows 8 laptop with JAWS 16. I will be using dream reader on the phone and a braille note taker with a qwerty keyboard. I cannot read braille very fast, so will rely mostly on speech. Any tips and tricks are welcome. -Bruce _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com From bluezinfandel at hotmail.com Thu Jun 11 14:18:58 2015 From: bluezinfandel at hotmail.com (Ben Fulton) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:18:58 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Study tips In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I found converting everything into a word or text document to be very useful when studying. One thing you can do is then cut and paste important parts of the main text into a separate file for notes (usally labeled something like "notes for contracts") Another thing I would do is make 2 copies of the text file. Then I would read down the file from the start. When I had finished an hour or two of reading, I would hold down the ctrl and shift key and then hit the home key (I am a jaws user so this would effectively select all the material I had just read). Then I would delete the highlighted material and save the file I had been reading. This meant when I went back to that file it started right where I had left off, and I still had a complete file in backup just in case. Hope these hints help. > From: blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 12:00:01 +0000 > > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Study Tips for Law School (Stewart, Christopher K) > 2. Re: Study Tips for Law School (Susan Kelly) > 3. Re: Study Strategies (Tim Elder) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 08:55:12 -0400 > From: "Stewart, Christopher K" > To: blindlaw > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Study Tips for Law School > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Bruce and List, > > I'm sorry for posting directly, but I receive the list posts in digest > form and thought this would be a cleaner way to respond. > > I love the idea of doing a workshop at convention on studying smart in > law school. I will definitely raise this question when I attend my > first meeting of the blind lawyers section at convention this year. > Now, here are my quick hits. > > First, for totally blind users, I strongly advise converting your > openbook files into Word files. This is for two reasons. First, Word > is easier to edit on the fly. And, second, I find navigation in > smaller chuncks easier in Word. The main mistake to avoid is turning > on your reading and just listening. This works in undergrad, but not > law school. > > Second, outline as you go!! Do not be the person cramming at the end > of the semester. You will pass, but you will not best your classmates, > which is of course the goal in almost all law schools. So, every time > you finish a section, say it's contracts, and you have just finished > offer and acceptance. Sit down for a few hours and create an outline > of all of the cases and information regarding offer and acceptance. > Commercial outlines can help guide this inquiry, and I'll happily > share mine, but there is no substitute for doing it yourself. > > Third, study your professor. I had a contracts teacher who was > brilliant, but the information he wanted wasn't the information > generally stressed in commercial study aids. Moreover, he could spot a > commercial study aid answer a mile away. So, know what your professor > wants. > > Fourth, and on a related note, talk to your professors. Schedule a > couple of meetings throughout the semester and discuss the material. > Make sure you understand what he's telling you, and make sure you can > communicate the material clearly to him/her. > > Fifth, stay healthy. Find time to exercise no matter what. Eat well. > Get sleep. If you are kind to your body, it will be kind to your > brain. > > Sixth, talk to your classmates. Find people you really mesh with and > form study groups. Bring your own outlines and form master outlines. > Quiz each other. Find sample essay questions online or, where > possible, old exams from your own professors. > > For anyone who is still reading, thank you. I have more suggestions, > and I am happy to discuss them with anyone. This is a public list so I > won't reveal my class rank, but it is high, and I'll happily discuss > that as well on an individual basis. I hope this was useful. > > Best, > Chris > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal > Co-President, American Constitution Society > President, Election Law Society > California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:45:36 +0000 > From: Susan Kelly > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: "Stewart, Christopher K" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Study Tips for Law School > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Just a few added thoughts from someone who graduated a "few" years ago - yes, definitely outline as you go. I was lucky to still have fairly useful vision in law school, but I think this works whether by computer or by handwriting. I would outline the daily reading for each course before class, and then add whatever notes seemed appropriate during the day's lecture to that outline. Also, small study groups are very helpful - different people will catch different things in class, all of which are likely important. Also, we had at least one professor who would come in each morning and write lists on the whiteboard, which were never discussed in class and which were not in the assigned readings. Guess what was the major portion of our semester final? I would hope that no prof would do this with blind students, but sadly, one of my classmates already needed a white cane due to the effects of retinitis pigmentosa, and a woman in the class ahead of us required a braille machine to take her notes - thus, the prof should not have done this but because of tenure, was not taken to task over this habit. Having a study group ensures that someone else will be able to share notes on anything that ends up being disseminated in an inaccessible manner can be quickly and easily gotten. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:55 AM > To: blindlaw > Cc: Stewart, Christopher K > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Study Tips for Law School > > Hi Bruce and List, > > I'm sorry for posting directly, but I receive the list posts in digest form and thought this would be a cleaner way to respond. > > I love the idea of doing a workshop at convention on studying smart in law school. I will definitely raise this question when I attend my first meeting of the blind lawyers section at convention this year. > Now, here are my quick hits. > > First, for totally blind users, I strongly advise converting your openbook files into Word files. This is for two reasons. First, Word is easier to edit on the fly. And, second, I find navigation in smaller chuncks easier in Word. The main mistake to avoid is turning on your reading and just listening. This works in undergrad, but not law school. > > Second, outline as you go!! Do not be the person cramming at the end of the semester. You will pass, but you will not best your classmates, which is of course the goal in almost all law schools. So, every time you finish a section, say it's contracts, and you have just finished offer and acceptance. Sit down for a few hours and create an outline of all of the cases and information regarding offer and acceptance. > Commercial outlines can help guide this inquiry, and I'll happily share mine, but there is no substitute for doing it yourself. > > Third, study your professor. I had a contracts teacher who was brilliant, but the information he wanted wasn't the information generally stressed in commercial study aids. Moreover, he could spot a commercial study aid answer a mile away. So, know what your professor wants. > > Fourth, and on a related note, talk to your professors. Schedule a couple of meetings throughout the semester and discuss the material. > Make sure you understand what he's telling you, and make sure you can communicate the material clearly to him/her. > > Fifth, stay healthy. Find time to exercise no matter what. Eat well. > Get sleep. If you are kind to your body, it will be kind to your brain. > > Sixth, talk to your classmates. Find people you really mesh with and form study groups. Bring your own outlines and form master outlines. > Quiz each other. Find sample essay questions online or, where possible, old exams from your own professors. > > For anyone who is still reading, thank you. I have more suggestions, and I am happy to discuss them with anyone. This is a public list so I won't reveal my class rank, but it is high, and I'll happily discuss that as well on an individual basis. I hope this was useful. > > Best, > Chris > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:12:04 -0700 > From: "Tim Elder" > To: "'Anita Keith-Foust'" , "'Blind Law > Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Study Strategies > Message-ID: <014701d0a3c2$19e4c3b0$4dae4b10$@timeldermusic.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Be sure to come to the blind lawyers meeting at NFB's national convention > this July. You will meet recent law grads and attorneys who can freely > share their experiences at the reception. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anita Keith-Foust [mailto:anitakeithfoust at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 4:26 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Study Strategies > > Dear All: > > I am interested in the tips offered to Bruce, and Bruce thank you for asking > for tips. > > I think that we need an NFB workshop to help prepare us for mastering > techniques for classes in law school. > > Maybe we can have workshops every summer. I know that these types of > workshops (LSAT prep and law school class and study prep) for blind and > low-vision students are really needed. > > How do we get this suggestion to those who can make it happen? > > Thank you. > > Anita Keith-Foust > 919-430-1978 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sexton, > bruce via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 4:33 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Sexton, bruce > Subject: [blindlaw] Study Strategies > > Hello List, > > > > What study strategies did you find useful while in law school? I have a > windows 8 laptop with JAWS 16. I will be using dream reader on the phone and > a braille note taker with a qwerty keyboard. I cannot read braille very > fast, so will rely mostly on speech. Any tips and tricks are welcome. > > > > -Bruce > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai > l.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 133, Issue 9 > **************************************** From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Jun 12 15:48:38 2015 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2015 09:48:38 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007601d0a527$40165f60$c0431e20$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) [mailto:DOJlawjobs at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 9:37 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website: http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. At Justice, diversity extends beyond race and gender. It includes differences in culture, ethnicity, economics, status as a veteran, generations, geography, sexual orientation, and includes individuals with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice, and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. What's new? New Mobile App! Get the latest information about legal careers at Justice with our mobile app, DOJ Law Jobs. Users can quickly and easily create personalized job searches based on practice area, geographic preference, and hiring organization. DOJ Law Jobs is available for free on iTunes for Apple iPhone and iPad, and the Play Store for Android devices. USAO Eastern District of Tennessee Assistant United States Attorney (Criminal) TN 06/11/2015 USAO Eastern District of Tennessee Assistant United States Attorney (Criminal) TN 06/11/2015 USAO Eastern District of Texas Assistant United States Attorney TX 06/11/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Experienced Trial Attorney - Reimbursable detail DC 06/11/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Chief DC 06/11/2015 USAO District of Colorado Assistant United States Attorney - Criminal Division CO 06/10/2015 USAO District of Colorado Assistant United States Attorney - Criminal Division (TERM) CO 06/10/2015 United States Trustee Program (USTP) Trial Attorney CA 06/10/2015 USAO Eastern District of Arkansas Assistant United States Attorney AR 06/10/2015 Executive Office for United States Attorneys (EOUSA) Attorney-Advisor (Indian Country) DC 06/10/2015 Antitrust Division (ATR) Trial Attorney DC 06/10/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Supervisory Trial Attorney/Assistant Deputy Chief DC 06/08/2015 USAO Middle District of Florida Assistant United States Attorney FL 06/08/2015 USAO District of Connecticut Assistant United States Attorney, Smart on Crime Position CT 06/08/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Assistant Deputy Chief CA 06/08/2015 USAO Central District of California Assistant United States Attorney (AUSA) CA 06/05/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Trial Attorney DC 06/05/2015 USAO Eastern District of Michigan Assistant United States Attorney (Term Appointment) MI 06/05/2015 USAO Northern District of Texas Assistant United States Attorney TX 06/05/2015 The U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Attorney Recruitment and Management, continuously updates its outreach list for the distribution of attorney and legal intern vacancy announcements. If you would like to continue receiving these emails from the Department of Justice, please respond to this email with UPDATE in the subject line and provide the updated contact information listed below. If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: From d-benbow at live.com Fri Jun 12 20:13:39 2015 From: d-benbow at live.com (Dawn Benbow) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2015 16:13:39 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Computers in the office Message-ID: Hi all, Now that I've got my first job, I'm going to be getting a new computer. I've got Jaws 16, and I'm wondering if I should get a windows 7 or 8. Everyone in the office has an 8, but my boss says I should get what will work best for me. I'll also be getting OpenBook and a flatbed scanner as we always scan and upload documents. Which one do you guys suggest? Dawn Benbow, Paralegal Law Offices of David C. Helm, PLLC 598 N. Mill St., MI, 48170 work 1 (248) 679-8804 Sent from my iPhone From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Fri Jun 12 20:55:42 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2015 15:55:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Computers in the office In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Both versions of Windows work well with JAWS. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 12, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Dawn Benbow via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi all, > > Now that I've got my first job, I'm going to be getting a new computer. I've got Jaws 16, and I'm wondering if I should get a windows 7 or 8. Everyone in the office has an 8, but my boss says I should get what will work best for me. I'll also be getting OpenBook and a flatbed scanner as we always scan and upload documents. Which one do you guys suggest? > > > > Dawn Benbow, Paralegal > Law Offices of David C. Helm, PLLC > 598 N. Mill St., MI, 48170 > work 1 (248) 679-8804 > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From my5thattempt at yahoo.com Sat Jun 13 01:28:47 2015 From: my5thattempt at yahoo.com (M BG) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 01:28:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] School District and State out of ADA compliance Please assist Message-ID: <1616156492.2498013.1434158927743.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>  To all, I am a legally blind mother of twoautistic boys in San Diego CA and need some guidance regarding IEP due process filing and ADAforms.  One of my son’s elementary school is attemptingto transfer him from his current school to his school of record which is a loftclassrooms setting. A loft classroom is 6 classrooms in one buildingsub-divided by half walls. This environment is NOT the appropriate educational settingfor my son to thrive in. I am in the process of filing for due process underthe IDEA.  The issue is that not only does thedistrict NOT have ADA fillable forms for me to utilize, being visually impaired, butalso the state does not have them. I am hindered by this in that this is notfair access to the forms I need to advocate for my son.  Additionally, the instructions on howto obtain this form in the “Notice of Procedural Safeguards” are incorrect. Theseinstructions are being provided to all the parents that are dealing with IEPsand is preventing them from easily obtaining them for filing for due process. Onehas to phone the district office and attempt to track the correct person in chargeof their school and have them email it. This is time consuming and tedious,complicate this in my case by lack of vision and you have a very messy issue. Does anyone have any advice to assistme on how to get a fillable copy or deal with the district and state to ensurefair accessibility to this form for not only myself but others? Kindest regards,Misty B-G From sy.hoekstra at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 19:01:04 2015 From: sy.hoekstra at gmail.com (Sy Hoekstra) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 15:01:04 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Computers in the office In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008201d0a60b$4d00e620$e702b260$@gmail.com> I know both work well with JAWS. If you haven't used 8 before, there are a couple things to get used to involving the alternative tablet-oriented home screen, but that really only causes a few minutes of confusion if you're not expecting it. But there aren't any significant problems with 8. The major advantage to me that Windows 8.1 has over 7 is 8 fixed all the Bluetooth issues Windows 7 had, so I can use wireless headphones with no problem, and setting up the connection is much easier. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dawn Benbow via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 4:14 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Dawn Benbow Subject: [blindlaw] Computers in the office Hi all, Now that I've got my first job, I'm going to be getting a new computer. I've got Jaws 16, and I'm wondering if I should get a windows 7 or 8. Everyone in the office has an 8, but my boss says I should get what will work best for me. I'll also be getting OpenBook and a flatbed scanner as we always scan and upload documents. Which one do you guys suggest? Dawn Benbow, Paralegal Law Offices of David C. Helm, PLLC 598 N. Mill St., MI, 48170 work 1 (248) 679-8804 Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.co m From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 20:42:22 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (anitakeithfoust at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 16:42:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Computers in the office In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think you should get a dale they come to your home or office if there is a need for a repair Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 12, 2015, at 4:13 PM, Dawn Benbow via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi all, > > Now that I've got my first job, I'm going to be getting a new computer. I've got Jaws 16, and I'm wondering if I should get a windows 7 or 8. Everyone in the office has an 8, but my boss says I should get what will work best for me. I'll also be getting OpenBook and a flatbed scanner as we always scan and upload documents. Which one do you guys suggest? > > > > Dawn Benbow, Paralegal > Law Offices of David C. Helm, PLLC > 598 N. Mill St., MI, 48170 > work 1 (248) 679-8804 > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Mon Jun 15 16:36:09 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 16:36:09 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney Message-ID: It has come to my attention that the County by which I am employed (in Arizona) now makes the possession of a valid driver's license a pre-requisite to application for employment. There are at least four of us (perhaps more) who, due to blindness or physical disability, do not drive. Presumably, when the applications were made through paper forms, there was some oversight by a human being in the HR office that made allowances for that questionable pre-requisite, if it even existed previously. Now, however, all applications must be made through the largely inaccessible ADP payroll and benefits computer program, further leaving those who are blind or otherwise unable to use the program independently out of the loop. Driving is not essential to any attorney position. The attorneys who represent adult criminal defendants are able to use a video visitation service to meet remotely with their clients should they not have access to a vehicle or lack time to drive out to the jail. Those of us at juvenile court have only to walk to the detention pods that are located on the same physical site as our office. Presumably, driving is similarly unnecessary to attorneys in the prosecutor's office. Finally, even for attorneys in the public fiduciary office or others facing the odd meeting or task that would require transportation, we have a full para-transit system, public busses, and numerous cab companies. That being so, how can possession of a valid driver's license be made a pre-requisite to application for employment as an attorney? From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Mon Jun 15 17:23:12 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 12:23:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000201d0a78f$f5b77fb0$e1267f10$@icloud.com> Susan, That is a ridiculous requirement. It is outright discrimination. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 11:36 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney It has come to my attention that the County by which I am employed (in Arizona) now makes the possession of a valid driver's license a pre-requisite to application for employment. There are at least four of us (perhaps more) who, due to blindness or physical disability, do not drive. Presumably, when the applications were made through paper forms, there was some oversight by a human being in the HR office that made allowances for that questionable pre-requisite, if it even existed previously. Now, however, all applications must be made through the largely inaccessible ADP payroll and benefits computer program, further leaving those who are blind or otherwise unable to use the program independently out of the loop. Driving is not essential to any attorney position. The attorneys who represent adult criminal defendants are able to use a video visitation service to meet remotely with their clients should they not have access to a vehicle or lack time to drive out to the jail. Those of us at juvenile court have only to walk to the detention pods that are located on the same physical site as our office. Presumably, driving is similarly unnecessary to attorneys in the prosecutor's office. Finally, even for attorneys in the public fiduciary office or others facing the odd meeting or task that would require transportation, we have a full para-transit system, public busses, and numerous cab companies. That being so, how can possession of a valid driver's license be made a pre-requisite to application for employment as an attorney? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Mon Jun 15 17:31:30 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:31:30 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: <000201d0a78f$f5b77fb0$e1267f10$@icloud.com> References: <000201d0a78f$f5b77fb0$e1267f10$@icloud.com> Message-ID: That was my interpretation as well - it came to light by virtue of a supervisory position coming open in the conflict office (Legal Defender) being posted on Friday. While I would not want the political headache involved in that position, the license requirement would seem to disqualify myself and the 3 other attorneys in the County workforce that I know personally who cannot drive due to vision loss or paralysis. We are nevertheless capable of and expected to carry full caseloads. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 10:23 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Michal Nowicki Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney Susan, That is a ridiculous requirement. It is outright discrimination. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 11:36 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney It has come to my attention that the County by which I am employed (in Arizona) now makes the possession of a valid driver's license a pre-requisite to application for employment. There are at least four of us (perhaps more) who, due to blindness or physical disability, do not drive. Presumably, when the applications were made through paper forms, there was some oversight by a human being in the HR office that made allowances for that questionable pre-requisite, if it even existed previously. Now, however, all applications must be made through the largely inaccessible ADP payroll and benefits computer program, further leaving those who are blind or otherwise unable to use the program independently out of the loop. Driving is not essential to any attorney position. The attorneys who represent adult criminal defendants are able to use a video visitation service to meet remotely with their clients should they not have access to a vehicle or lack time to drive out to the jail. Those of us at juvenile court have only to walk to the detention pods that are located on the same physical site as our office. Presumably, driving is similarly unnecessary to attorneys in the prosecutor's office. Finally, even for attorneys in the public fiduciary office or others facing the odd meeting or task that would require transportation, we have a full para-transit system, public busses, and numerous cab companies. That being so, how can possession of a valid driver's license be made a pre-requisite to application for employment as an attorney? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov Mon Jun 15 17:42:31 2015 From: Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov (Reyazuddin, Yasmin) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:42:31 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: References: <000201d0a78f$f5b77fb0$e1267f10$@icloud.com> Message-ID: Hi Susan, I am not a legal professional, but I know about the requirement. The job announcement should have required for a valid state issued picture ID card Valid state identification is fine as it does not discriminate. My suggestion, call the human resources and ask them to change the language/words. Yasmin Reyazuddin Aging & Disability Services Montgomery County Government Department of Health & Human Services 401 Hungerford Drive (3rd floor) Rockville MD 20850 240-777-0311 (MC311) 240-777-1556 (personal) 240-777-1495 (fax) office hours 8:30 am 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu, Braille This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 1:32 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney That was my interpretation as well - it came to light by virtue of a supervisory position coming open in the conflict office (Legal Defender) being posted on Friday. While I would not want the political headache involved in that position, the license requirement would seem to disqualify myself and the 3 other attorneys in the County workforce that I know personally who cannot drive due to vision loss or paralysis. We are nevertheless capable of and expected to carry full caseloads. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 10:23 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Michal Nowicki Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney Susan, That is a ridiculous requirement. It is outright discrimination. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 11:36 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney It has come to my attention that the County by which I am employed (in Arizona) now makes the possession of a valid driver's license a pre-requisite to application for employment. There are at least four of us (perhaps more) who, due to blindness or physical disability, do not drive. Presumably, when the applications were made through paper forms, there was some oversight by a human being in the HR office that made allowances for that questionable pre-requisite, if it even existed previously. Now, however, all applications must be made through the largely inaccessible ADP payroll and benefits computer program, further leaving those who are blind or otherwise unable to use the program independently out of the loop. Driving is not essential to any attorney position. The attorneys who represent adult criminal defendants are able to use a video visitation service to meet remotely with their clients should they not have access to a vehicle or lack time to drive out to the jail. Those of us at juvenile court have only to walk to the detention pods that are located on the same physical site as our office. Presumably, driving is similarly unnecessary to attorneys in the prosecutor's office. Finally, even for attorneys in the public fiduciary office or others facing the odd meeting or task that would require transportation, we have a full para-transit system, public busses, and numerous cab companies. That being so, how can possession of a valid driver's license be made a pre-requisite to application for employment as an attorney? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Jun 15 17:53:29 2015 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross A. Doerr) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 13:53:29 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01d0a794$303a9b50$90afd1f0$@roadrunner.com> Hello Susan: Yes indeed, the valid driver's lisence requirement became quite popular in New Hampshire and Maine for state and governmental employment. All it really did was to force disabled job applicants to report their disability and request an accommodation. It really was, and is, a cheap shot to those of us who are disability advocates. On the other hand, it did a fine job of keeping me and several others I know, from getting gainful employment in government. Ross -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 12:36 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney It has come to my attention that the County by which I am employed (in Arizona) now makes the possession of a valid driver's license a pre-requisite to application for employment. There are at least four of us (perhaps more) who, due to blindness or physical disability, do not drive. Presumably, when the applications were made through paper forms, there was some oversight by a human being in the HR office that made allowances for that questionable pre-requisite, if it even existed previously. Now, however, all applications must be made through the largely inaccessible ADP payroll and benefits computer program, further leaving those who are blind or otherwise unable to use the program independently out of the loop. Driving is not essential to any attorney position. The attorneys who represent adult criminal defendants are able to use a video visitation service to meet remotely with their clients should they not have access to a vehicle or lack time to drive out to the jail. Those of us at juvenile court have only to walk to the detention pods that are located on the same physical site as our office. Presumably, driving is similarly unnecessary to attorneys in the prosecutor's office. Finally, even for attorneys in the public fiduciary office or others facing the odd meeting or task that would require transportation, we have a full para-transit system, public busses, and numerous cab companies. That being so, how can possession of a valid driver's license be made a pre-requisite to application for employment as an attorney? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.c om From awebb2168 at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 18:01:21 2015 From: awebb2168 at gmail.com (Andrew Webb) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 13:01:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Long term care insurance Message-ID: <01aa01d0a795$49c94fc0$dd5bef40$@com> Hello, Does anyone here have some expertise on the laws and regulations pertaining to long term care insurance, and know if the conditions of blindness or deafness can be used by providers to disqualify applicants for such coverage? Thanks, Andrew From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Mon Jun 15 21:25:07 2015 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 15:25:07 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney References: Message-ID: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> Hello Susie: Government is the most notorious organ ever created by humans that never thinks before it speaks! Government takes delight in letting out a lot of hot hair until its courts tell it to quit being silly. I personally don't understand or know how the posession of a driver's license should translate to mean that I'll do a good job at work, but again, it's government! Yes, they'll call me subversive for daring to express my views! So be it, I guess. Notice how government has managed to consistently exempt itself from the general provisions of the ADA? If this is NOT THE CASE, why are there so many government websites here in the state of Colorado that ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT accessible and finding a person to talk to about these sites is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE? As I write this, I am preparing to CHALLENGE the City & County of Denver in court for failing to make it ONLINE BUSINESS, OCCUPATIONAL PRIVILEGE and SALES TAX licenses filing apps inaccessible. Same goes for the state of Colorado's Revenue Online website. It's always easy to take on small businesses and other private entities for failing to meet ADA provisions, but government always gets unscathe! Wonderful, two wrongs truly don't make a right, and government can continue committing both wrongs! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 15 21:33:15 2015 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 16:33:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: <001e01d0a794$303a9b50$90afd1f0$@roadrunner.com> References: <001e01d0a794$303a9b50$90afd1f0$@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <00d601d0a7b2$e5ca92e0$b15fb8a0$@sbcglobal.net> Hello Ross: I have not heard from you in quite some time. I hope all is well with you and Mrs. Doerr. Daniel McBride Fort Worth, Texas -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ross A. Doerr via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 12:53 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Ross A. Doerr Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney Hello Susan: Yes indeed, the valid driver's lisence requirement became quite popular in New Hampshire and Maine for state and governmental employment. All it really did was to force disabled job applicants to report their disability and request an accommodation. It really was, and is, a cheap shot to those of us who are disability advocates. On the other hand, it did a fine job of keeping me and several others I know, from getting gainful employment in government. Ross -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 12:36 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney It has come to my attention that the County by which I am employed (in Arizona) now makes the possession of a valid driver's license a pre-requisite to application for employment. There are at least four of us (perhaps more) who, due to blindness or physical disability, do not drive. Presumably, when the applications were made through paper forms, there was some oversight by a human being in the HR office that made allowances for that questionable pre-requisite, if it even existed previously. Now, however, all applications must be made through the largely inaccessible ADP payroll and benefits computer program, further leaving those who are blind or otherwise unable to use the program independently out of the loop. Driving is not essential to any attorney position. The attorneys who represent adult criminal defendants are able to use a video visitation service to meet remotely with their clients should they not have access to a vehicle or lack time to drive out to the jail. Those of us at juvenile court have only to walk to the detention pods that are located on the same physical site as our office. Presumably, driving is similarly unnecessary to attorneys in the prosecutor's office. Finally, even for attorneys in the public fiduciary office or others facing the odd meeting or task that would require transportation, we have a full para-transit system, public busses, and numerous cab companies. That being so, how can possession of a valid driver's license be made a pre-requisite to application for employment as an attorney? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.c om _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 15 21:37:08 2015 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 16:37:08 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Long term care insurance In-Reply-To: <01aa01d0a795$49c94fc0$dd5bef40$@com> References: <01aa01d0a795$49c94fc0$dd5bef40$@com> Message-ID: <00d701d0a7b3$6f615a20$4e240e60$@sbcglobal.net> Much like Obama's Affordable Health Care Act , which has absolutely nothing to do with being affordable or health care, one cannot be denied for a pre-existing condition, but they can sure as hell jack the premiums up. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 1:01 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Andrew Webb Subject: [blindlaw] Long term care insurance Hello, Does anyone here have some expertise on the laws and regulations pertaining to long term care insurance, and know if the conditions of blindness or deafness can be used by providers to disqualify applicants for such coverage? Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Mon Jun 15 22:53:37 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:53:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> References: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> Message-ID: <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> Hello everyone, Perhaps, as Yasmin suggested, the state of Arizona uses the term "driver's license" to refer to all forms of picture identification. After all, unlike in other countries, where all citizens must obtain a national ID card, a driver's license functions as a valid form of identification in the United States, and most Americans have a driver's license. While this does not justify Arizona's discriminatory language, there is at least a legitimate possibility that the state does not mean to weed blind attorneys out of public legal posts through this requirement. If that is the case, maybe it will not be a barrier to employment, even if the government is unwilling to amend the language. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:25 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney Hello Susie: Government is the most notorious organ ever created by humans that never thinks before it speaks! Government takes delight in letting out a lot of hot hair until its courts tell it to quit being silly. I personally don't understand or know how the posession of a driver's license should translate to mean that I'll do a good job at work, but again, it's government! Yes, they'll call me subversive for daring to express my views! So be it, I guess. Notice how government has managed to consistently exempt itself from the general provisions of the ADA? If this is NOT THE CASE, why are there so many government websites here in the state of Colorado that ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT accessible and finding a person to talk to about these sites is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE? As I write this, I am preparing to CHALLENGE the City & County of Denver in court for failing to make it ONLINE BUSINESS, OCCUPATIONAL PRIVILEGE and SALES TAX licenses filing apps inaccessible. Same goes for the state of Colorado's Revenue Online website. It's always easy to take on small businesses and other private entities for failing to meet ADA provisions, but government always gets unscathe! Wonderful, two wrongs truly don't make a right, and government can continue committing both wrongs! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us Tue Jun 16 13:28:42 2015 From: david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us (Hyde, David W. (ESC)) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 13:28:42 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Long term care insurance In-Reply-To: <00d701d0a7b3$6f615a20$4e240e60$@sbcglobal.net> References: <01aa01d0a795$49c94fc0$dd5bef40$@com> <00d701d0a7b3$6f615a20$4e240e60$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: In most states, long term care is a form of health insurance. Talk to the national office and see if the 1978 NAIC (National Association of Insurance Commissioners) recommendation applies. This was adopted in most, if not all of the states and requires that carriers may not discriminate as to the rates, terms or availability of health or life insurance on the basis of blindness. My caution would be that long-term care was a very new coverage area in 1978, and has become much more prevalent in the last thirty-five years. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:37 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Daniel McBride Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Long term care insurance Much like Obama's Affordable Health Care Act , which has absolutely nothing to do with being affordable or health care, one cannot be denied for a pre-existing condition, but they can sure as hell jack the premiums up. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 1:01 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Andrew Webb Subject: [blindlaw] Long term care insurance Hello, Does anyone here have some expertise on the laws and regulations pertaining to long term care insurance, and know if the conditions of blindness or deafness can be used by providers to disqualify applicants for such coverage? Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jun 16 15:21:43 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 15:21:43 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> References: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> Message-ID: I think the fact that the job description goes on to state that the previous 39 months of MVD records will be accessed and reviewed by the hiring authority makes it plain that the reference to driver's license goes beyond a mere picture i.d. Moreover, Arizona has identification cards which are also issued by MVD, but which plainly are NOT driver's licenses, nor are they referred to as such. Finally, because our state chose not to comply with certain national trends on those licenses and identifications, we will all soon need passports or other forms of i.d. to board airplanes, making them relatively useless as mere forms of identification. Additionally, other positions are listed which do NOT require driver's licenses as a pre-requisite to application. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:54 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Michal Nowicki Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney Hello everyone, Perhaps, as Yasmin suggested, the state of Arizona uses the term "driver's license" to refer to all forms of picture identification. After all, unlike in other countries, where all citizens must obtain a national ID card, a driver's license functions as a valid form of identification in the United States, and most Americans have a driver's license. While this does not justify Arizona's discriminatory language, there is at least a legitimate possibility that the state does not mean to weed blind attorneys out of public legal posts through this requirement. If that is the case, maybe it will not be a barrier to employment, even if the government is unwilling to amend the language. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:25 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney Hello Susie: Government is the most notorious organ ever created by humans that never thinks before it speaks! Government takes delight in letting out a lot of hot hair until its courts tell it to quit being silly. I personally don't understand or know how the posession of a driver's license should translate to mean that I'll do a good job at work, but again, it's government! Yes, they'll call me subversive for daring to express my views! So be it, I guess. Notice how government has managed to consistently exempt itself from the general provisions of the ADA? If this is NOT THE CASE, why are there so many government websites here in the state of Colorado that ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT accessible and finding a person to talk to about these sites is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE? As I write this, I am preparing to CHALLENGE the City & County of Denver in court for failing to make it ONLINE BUSINESS, OCCUPATIONAL PRIVILEGE and SALES TAX licenses filing apps inaccessible. Same goes for the state of Colorado's Revenue Online website. It's always easy to take on small businesses and other private entities for failing to meet ADA provisions, but government always gets unscathe! Wonderful, two wrongs truly don't make a right, and government can continue committing both wrongs! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 15:50:36 2015 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 11:50:36 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: References: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> Message-ID: This strikes me as discriminatory on its face. I am not yet a legal expert--I am starting law school in the fall--but how could this not be a straightforward ADA violation? I would be curious to know if states have been previously sued over this and, if so, what the outcome was. I wish you all the best of luck in getting this absurd requirement overturned. Sincerely, James Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 16, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > > I think the fact that the job description goes on to state that the previous 39 months of MVD records will be accessed and reviewed by the hiring authority makes it plain that the reference to driver's license goes beyond a mere picture i.d. Moreover, Arizona has identification cards which are also issued by MVD, but which plainly are NOT driver's licenses, nor are they referred to as such. Finally, because our state chose not to comply with certain national trends on those licenses and identifications, we will all soon need passports or other forms of i.d. to board airplanes, making them relatively useless as mere forms of identification. Additionally, other positions are listed which do NOT require driver's licenses as a pre-requisite to application. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:54 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Michal Nowicki > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney > > Hello everyone, > > Perhaps, as Yasmin suggested, the state of Arizona uses the term "driver's license" to refer to all forms of picture identification. After all, unlike in other countries, where all citizens must obtain a national ID card, a driver's license functions as a valid form of identification in the United States, and most Americans have a driver's license. While this does not justify Arizona's discriminatory language, there is at least a legitimate possibility that the state does not mean to weed blind attorneys out of public legal posts through this requirement. If that is the case, maybe it will not be a barrier to employment, even if the government is unwilling to amend the language. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:25 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney > > Hello Susie: > > Government is the most notorious organ ever created by humans that never thinks before it speaks! Government takes delight in letting out a lot of hot hair until its courts tell it to quit being silly. I personally don't understand or know how the posession of a driver's license should translate to mean that I'll do a good job at work, but again, it's government! > > Yes, they'll call me subversive for daring to express my views! So be it, I guess. > > Notice how government has managed to consistently exempt itself from the general provisions of the ADA? If this is NOT THE CASE, why are there so many government websites here in the state of Colorado that ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT accessible and finding a person to talk to about these sites is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE? > > As I write this, I am preparing to CHALLENGE the City & County of Denver in court for failing to make it ONLINE BUSINESS, OCCUPATIONAL PRIVILEGE and SALES TAX licenses filing apps inaccessible. Same goes for the state of Colorado's Revenue Online website. > > It's always easy to take on small businesses and other private entities for failing to meet ADA provisions, but government always gets unscathe! > Wonderful, two wrongs truly don't make a right, and government can continue committing both wrongs! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From keribcu at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 16:12:59 2015 From: keribcu at gmail.com (Keri) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 12:12:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] health care and insurance help Message-ID: <55804B0B.6090807@gmail.com> I'm wondering if anyone on this list has experience in healthcare laws, and insurances and so forth. I really need to talk to someone about issues I'm having, and if I can take any legal action. thank you, -- Keri From david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us Tue Jun 16 16:17:21 2015 From: david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us (Hyde, David W. (ESC)) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 16:17:21 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] health care and insurance help In-Reply-To: <55804B0B.6090807@gmail.com> References: <55804B0B.6090807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9a6632d43242495183d3c1097eaeb4df@Exchange.wcbvi.k12.wi.us> I sold health and life for a number of years. I don't know if I can be of help, as laws and rules vary from state to state. Email me off list at w.dave at sbcglobal.net. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:13 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Keri Subject: [blindlaw] health care and insurance help I'm wondering if anyone on this list has experience in healthcare laws, and insurances and so forth. I really need to talk to someone about issues I'm having, and if I can take any legal action. thank you, -- Keri _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net Tue Jun 16 17:53:02 2015 From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 11:53:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: References: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> Message-ID: <5580627E.5040206@comcast.net> I may not be an attorney or law professional, but it's not just the law that is requiring "driver's licenses" but I'm seeing even mundane jobs requiring those. I wanted to move to Arizona, but I"m not surprised by what they're doing because of the border state status, right there besides Mexico. Beth On 6/16/2015 9:21 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > I think the fact that the job description goes on to state that the previous 39 months of MVD records will be accessed and reviewed by the hiring authority makes it plain that the reference to driver's license goes beyond a mere picture i.d. Moreover, Arizona has identification cards which are also issued by MVD, but which plainly are NOT driver's licenses, nor are they referred to as such. Finally, because our state chose not to comply with certain national trends on those licenses and identifications, we will all soon need passports or other forms of i.d. to board airplanes, making them relatively useless as mere forms of identification. Additionally, other positions are listed which do NOT require driver's licenses as a pre-requisite to application. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:54 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Michal Nowicki > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney > > Hello everyone, > > Perhaps, as Yasmin suggested, the state of Arizona uses the term "driver's license" to refer to all forms of picture identification. After all, unlike in other countries, where all citizens must obtain a national ID card, a driver's license functions as a valid form of identification in the United States, and most Americans have a driver's license. While this does not justify Arizona's discriminatory language, there is at least a legitimate possibility that the state does not mean to weed blind attorneys out of public legal posts through this requirement. If that is the case, maybe it will not be a barrier to employment, even if the government is unwilling to amend the language. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:25 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney > > Hello Susie: > > Government is the most notorious organ ever created by humans that never thinks before it speaks! Government takes delight in letting out a lot of hot hair until its courts tell it to quit being silly. I personally don't understand or know how the posession of a driver's license should translate to mean that I'll do a good job at work, but again, it's government! > > Yes, they'll call me subversive for daring to express my views! So be it, I guess. > > Notice how government has managed to consistently exempt itself from the general provisions of the ADA? If this is NOT THE CASE, why are there so many government websites here in the state of Colorado that ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT accessible and finding a person to talk to about these sites is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE? > > As I write this, I am preparing to CHALLENGE the City & County of Denver in court for failing to make it ONLINE BUSINESS, OCCUPATIONAL PRIVILEGE and SALES TAX licenses filing apps inaccessible. Same goes for the state of Colorado's Revenue Online website. > > It's always easy to take on small businesses and other private entities for failing to meet ADA provisions, but government always gets unscathe! > Wonderful, two wrongs truly don't make a right, and government can continue committing both wrongs! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net > -- Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can reach me by skype at denverqueen0920 From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Tue Jun 16 18:04:31 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 13:04:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: <5580627E.5040206@comcast.net> References: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> <5580627E.5040206@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001d0a85e$e5c1cd20$b1456760$@icloud.com> What does "border state status" have to do with the driver's license requirement? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 12:53 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Beth Taurasi Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney I may not be an attorney or law professional, but it's not just the law that is requiring "driver's licenses" but I'm seeing even mundane jobs requiring those. I wanted to move to Arizona, but I"m not surprised by what they're doing because of the border state status, right there besides Mexico. Beth On 6/16/2015 9:21 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > I think the fact that the job description goes on to state that the previous 39 months of MVD records will be accessed and reviewed by the hiring authority makes it plain that the reference to driver's license goes beyond a mere picture i.d. Moreover, Arizona has identification cards which are also issued by MVD, but which plainly are NOT driver's licenses, nor are they referred to as such. Finally, because our state chose not to comply with certain national trends on those licenses and identifications, we will all soon need passports or other forms of i.d. to board airplanes, making them relatively useless as mere forms of identification. Additionally, other positions are listed which do NOT require driver's licenses as a pre-requisite to application. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Michal Nowicki via blindlaw > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:54 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Michal Nowicki > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a > pre-requisite to employment as an attorney > > Hello everyone, > > Perhaps, as Yasmin suggested, the state of Arizona uses the term "driver's license" to refer to all forms of picture identification. After all, unlike in other countries, where all citizens must obtain a national ID card, a driver's license functions as a valid form of identification in the United States, and most Americans have a driver's license. While this does not justify Arizona's discriminatory language, there is at least a legitimate possibility that the state does not mean to weed blind attorneys out of public legal posts through this requirement. If that is the case, maybe it will not be a barrier to employment, even if the government is unwilling to amend the language. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:25 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a > pre-requisite to employment as an attorney > > Hello Susie: > > Government is the most notorious organ ever created by humans that never thinks before it speaks! Government takes delight in letting out a lot of hot hair until its courts tell it to quit being silly. I personally don't understand or know how the posession of a driver's license should translate to mean that I'll do a good job at work, but again, it's government! > > Yes, they'll call me subversive for daring to express my views! So be it, I guess. > > Notice how government has managed to consistently exempt itself from the general provisions of the ADA? If this is NOT THE CASE, why are there so many government websites here in the state of Colorado that ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT accessible and finding a person to talk to about these sites is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE? > > As I write this, I am preparing to CHALLENGE the City & County of Denver in court for failing to make it ONLINE BUSINESS, OCCUPATIONAL PRIVILEGE and SALES TAX licenses filing apps inaccessible. Same goes for the state of Colorado's Revenue Online website. > > It's always easy to take on small businesses and other private entities for failing to meet ADA provisions, but government always gets unscathe! > Wonderful, two wrongs truly don't make a right, and government can continue committing both wrongs! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40iclo > ud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107% > 40comcast.net > -- Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can reach me by skype at denverqueen0920 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 18:08:39 2015 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 14:08:39 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Additional Medical Factors Related to LSAT Score Message-ID: <54541B6D-7B03-4A23-BAE9-83F95E6BD77E@gmail.com> Hello everyone. I have a quick question regarding submitting additional information that could have had an impact on my LSAT score. I recently submitted additional information regarding the accessibility issues that I had with Kaplan to clarify how much of a disadvantage it was for me during test preparation. I submitted this after accepting an offer to be placed on a wait list at my top pick school. I indicated that the score does not appropriately reflect my abilities due to the inaccessible materials. Now that we have a little of the background out of the way, here is my question. I recently did a sleep study and have a diagnosis of sleep apnea. If you are not familiar with it, the affects on your cognitive abilities is significant if you are not receiving treatment. So this also would have had a negative effect on my score. Would it have a negative effect on the admissions process if I were to submit documentation of this disorder and indicate that I feel my score also could have been lower than desirable due to this as well? I submitted my other document regarding the Kaplan course around June 11th. What are your thoughts? Aimee From wickps at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 18:31:17 2015 From: wickps at gmail.com (Paul Wick) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 11:31:17 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: <000001d0a85e$e5c1cd20$b1456760$@icloud.com> References: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> <5580627E.5040206@comcast.net> <000001d0a85e$e5c1cd20$b1456760$@icloud.com> Message-ID: Michal, The whole border state thing is relevant because as a protest against the federal government the state refuses to add biometric requirements required by federal law so their licenses are not useful for anything other than driving within the borders of Arizona. Paul Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 16, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: > > What does "border state status" have to do with the driver's license > requirement? > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth > Taurasi via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 12:53 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Beth Taurasi > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to > employment as an attorney > > I may not be an attorney or law professional, but it's not just the law that > is requiring "driver's licenses" but I'm seeing even mundane jobs requiring > those. I wanted to move to Arizona, but I"m not surprised by what they're > doing because of the border state status, right there besides Mexico. > Beth > >> On 6/16/2015 9:21 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> I think the fact that the job description goes on to state that the > previous 39 months of MVD records will be accessed and reviewed by the > hiring authority makes it plain that the reference to driver's license goes > beyond a mere picture i.d. Moreover, Arizona has identification cards which > are also issued by MVD, but which plainly are NOT driver's licenses, nor are > they referred to as such. Finally, because our state chose not to comply > with certain national trends on those licenses and identifications, we will > all soon need passports or other forms of i.d. to board airplanes, making > them relatively useless as mere forms of identification. Additionally, > other positions are listed which do NOT require driver's licenses as a > pre-requisite to application. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Michal Nowicki via blindlaw >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:54 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Michal Nowicki >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a >> pre-requisite to employment as an attorney >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> Perhaps, as Yasmin suggested, the state of Arizona uses the term "driver's > license" to refer to all forms of picture identification. After all, unlike > in other countries, where all citizens must obtain a national ID card, a > driver's license functions as a valid form of identification in the United > States, and most Americans have a driver's license. While this does not > justify Arizona's discriminatory language, there is at least a legitimate > possibility that the state does not mean to weed blind attorneys out of > public legal posts through this requirement. If that is the case, maybe it > will not be a barrier to employment, even if the government is unwilling to > amend the language. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:25 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a >> pre-requisite to employment as an attorney >> >> Hello Susie: >> >> Government is the most notorious organ ever created by humans that never > thinks before it speaks! Government takes delight in letting out a lot of > hot hair until its courts tell it to quit being silly. I personally don't > understand or know how the posession of a driver's license should translate > to mean that I'll do a good job at work, but again, it's government! >> >> Yes, they'll call me subversive for daring to express my views! So be it, > I guess. >> >> Notice how government has managed to consistently exempt itself from the > general provisions of the ADA? If this is NOT THE CASE, why are there so > many government websites here in the state of Colorado that ARE ABSOLUTELY > NOT accessible and finding a person to talk to about these sites is NEXT TO > IMPOSSIBLE? >> >> As I write this, I am preparing to CHALLENGE the City & County of Denver > in court for failing to make it ONLINE BUSINESS, OCCUPATIONAL PRIVILEGE and > SALES TAX licenses filing apps inaccessible. Same goes for the state of > Colorado's Revenue Online website. >> >> It's always easy to take on small businesses and other private entities > for failing to meet ADA provisions, but government always gets unscathe! >> Wonderful, two wrongs truly don't make a right, and government can > continue committing both wrongs! >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> http://www.avast.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40iclo >> ud.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107% >> 40comcast.net >> > > > -- > Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can reach me > by skype at denverqueen0920 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jun 16 19:09:56 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 19:09:56 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: References: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> <5580627E.5040206@comcast.net> <000001d0a85e$e5c1cd20$b1456760$@icloud.com> Message-ID: Exactly. My understanding is that they are not even valid as a form of identification for E-verify on job applications, nor are they sufficient identification at the polls, and soon, not at the airport. Again, there is absolutely no rational need for this requirement, as the four of us already employed by the County as attorneys who don't drive (3 blind, one paralyzed) clearly prove. This was not on my application when I started, and at the time, I did drive. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Paul Wick via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:31 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Paul Wick Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney Michal, The whole border state thing is relevant because as a protest against the federal government the state refuses to add biometric requirements required by federal law so their licenses are not useful for anything other than driving within the borders of Arizona. Paul Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 16, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Michal Nowicki via blindlaw wrote: > > What does "border state status" have to do with the driver's license > requirement? > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth > Taurasi via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 12:53 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Beth Taurasi > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a > pre-requisite to employment as an attorney > > I may not be an attorney or law professional, but it's not just the > law that is requiring "driver's licenses" but I'm seeing even mundane > jobs requiring those. I wanted to move to Arizona, but I"m not > surprised by what they're doing because of the border state status, right there besides Mexico. > Beth > >> On 6/16/2015 9:21 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> I think the fact that the job description goes on to state that the > previous 39 months of MVD records will be accessed and reviewed by the > hiring authority makes it plain that the reference to driver's license > goes beyond a mere picture i.d. Moreover, Arizona has identification > cards which are also issued by MVD, but which plainly are NOT driver's > licenses, nor are they referred to as such. Finally, because our > state chose not to comply with certain national trends on those > licenses and identifications, we will all soon need passports or other > forms of i.d. to board airplanes, making them relatively useless as > mere forms of identification. Additionally, other positions are > listed which do NOT require driver's licenses as a pre-requisite to application. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Michal Nowicki via blindlaw >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:54 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Michal Nowicki >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a >> pre-requisite to employment as an attorney >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> Perhaps, as Yasmin suggested, the state of Arizona uses the term >> "driver's > license" to refer to all forms of picture identification. After all, > unlike in other countries, where all citizens must obtain a national > ID card, a driver's license functions as a valid form of > identification in the United States, and most Americans have a > driver's license. While this does not justify Arizona's > discriminatory language, there is at least a legitimate possibility > that the state does not mean to weed blind attorneys out of public > legal posts through this requirement. If that is the case, maybe it > will not be a barrier to employment, even if the government is unwilling to amend the language. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:25 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a >> pre-requisite to employment as an attorney >> >> Hello Susie: >> >> Government is the most notorious organ ever created by humans that >> never > thinks before it speaks! Government takes delight in letting out a > lot of hot hair until its courts tell it to quit being silly. I > personally don't understand or know how the posession of a driver's > license should translate to mean that I'll do a good job at work, but again, it's government! >> >> Yes, they'll call me subversive for daring to express my views! So >> be it, > I guess. >> >> Notice how government has managed to consistently exempt itself from >> the > general provisions of the ADA? If this is NOT THE CASE, why are there > so many government websites here in the state of Colorado that ARE > ABSOLUTELY NOT accessible and finding a person to talk to about these > sites is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE? >> >> As I write this, I am preparing to CHALLENGE the City & County of >> Denver > in court for failing to make it ONLINE BUSINESS, OCCUPATIONAL > PRIVILEGE and SALES TAX licenses filing apps inaccessible. Same goes > for the state of Colorado's Revenue Online website. >> >> It's always easy to take on small businesses and other private >> entities > for failing to meet ADA provisions, but government always gets unscathe! >> Wonderful, two wrongs truly don't make a right, and government can > continue committing both wrongs! >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> http://www.avast.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icl >> o >> ud.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >> i >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107 >> % >> 40comcast.net >> > > > -- > Check out my Wordpress blog: denverqueen.wordpress.com or you can > reach me by skype at denverqueen0920 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40iclo > ud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.c > om _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Tue Jun 16 23:27:11 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 18:27:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Additional Medical Factors Related to LSAT Score In-Reply-To: <54541B6D-7B03-4A23-BAE9-83F95E6BD77E@gmail.com> References: <54541B6D-7B03-4A23-BAE9-83F95E6BD77E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000401d0a88b$f91d4570$eb57d050$@icloud.com> Aimee, I don't recommend submitting any medical documentation. Remember, the law school application process is very competitive; most schools, especially top-ranked ones, get many more qualified applicants than they can accept. Therefore, submitting documentation of a medical disorder could scare the person reviewing your file and ultimately kill your application. This does not mean, however, that informing the school of your sleep apnea is a bad idea. Just don't send any medical reports, and, most important, assure the Admissions Committee that it will not affect your performance in law school because you are getting treatment. I hope this helps. Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 1:09 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: [blindlaw] Additional Medical Factors Related to LSAT Score Hello everyone. I have a quick question regarding submitting additional information that could have had an impact on my LSAT score. I recently submitted additional information regarding the accessibility issues that I had with Kaplan to clarify how much of a disadvantage it was for me during test preparation. I submitted this after accepting an offer to be placed on a wait list at my top pick school. I indicated that the score does not appropriately reflect my abilities due to the inaccessible materials. Now that we have a little of the background out of the way, here is my question. I recently did a sleep study and have a diagnosis of sleep apnea. If you are not familiar with it, the affects on your cognitive abilities is significant if you are not receiving treatment. So this also would have had a negative effect on my score. Would it have a negative effect on the admissions process if I were to submit documentation of this disorder and indicate that I feel my score also could have been lower than desirable due to this as well? I submitted my other document regarding the Kaplan course around June 11th. What are your thoughts? Aimee _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 02:43:52 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (Anita Keith-Foust) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:43:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Additional Medical Factors Related to LSAT Score In-Reply-To: <54541B6D-7B03-4A23-BAE9-83F95E6BD77E@gmail.com> References: <54541B6D-7B03-4A23-BAE9-83F95E6BD77E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <006701d0a8a7$73404120$59c0c360$@gmail.com> Dear Aimee: I agree with Michal, and, based upon my experience, I think that there is a potential for someone on the admissions committee who will decide against you because of your visual challenge and request for accommodations. So, yes, I think that it potentially can be negative to send the sleep apnea information. I think the lack of accommodations from Kaplan and the difficulties of taking the LSAT with a visual challenge are very compelling reasons. I cannot imagine a reasonable sighted person would need more than that to understand. Consider the following questions: Will you need accommodations for your sleep apnea? If not, why mention it?. Is the sleep apnea a recognized disability under the ADA? I hope this helps and that you get into the law school of your choice. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 2:09 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: [blindlaw] Additional Medical Factors Related to LSAT Score Hello everyone. I have a quick question regarding submitting additional information that could have had an impact on my LSAT score. I recently submitted additional information regarding the accessibility issues that I had with Kaplan to clarify how much of a disadvantage it was for me during test preparation. I submitted this after accepting an offer to be placed on a wait list at my top pick school. I indicated that the score does not appropriately reflect my abilities due to the inaccessible materials. Now that we have a little of the background out of the way, here is my question. I recently did a sleep study and have a diagnosis of sleep apnea. If you are not familiar with it, the affects on your cognitive abilities is significant if you are not receiving treatment. So this also would have had a negative effect on my score. Would it have a negative effect on the admissions process if I were to submit documentation of this disorder and indicate that I feel my score also could have been lower than desirable due to this as well? I submitted my other document regarding the Kaplan course around June 11th. What are your thoughts? Aimee _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com From terrydeagle at yahoo.com Wed Jun 17 13:15:42 2015 From: terrydeagle at yahoo.com (Terry D. Eagle) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 09:15:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisiteto employment as an attorney In-Reply-To: <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> References: <8AB6EB446BAB4381BF77BD9E4EAA95F9@victory2> <001d01d0a7be$1e28ce80$5a7a6b80$@icloud.com> Message-ID: It doesn't matter what the state of Arizona or any other employer has in mind, if a driver's license, in other words, driving a vehicle is not an [quote] "essential function" [unquote] of a position, it is illegal and discriminatory to require applicants to poss ess a valid driver's license. I once saw a technical assistance directive to personnel directors, published by the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission), that spelled out such a violation of the ADA (Americans with DisAbilities Act). The directive even used an example of a sewer inspector position, stating that driving is not an [quote] "essential function" [unquote] of a sewer inspector, and therefore, is discriminatory to require any applicant to possess a valid driver's license as a position qualification. Unfortunately, as stated here, government entities are the worse serial violators of such non-discrimination provisions of the law, along with the mentioned inaccessibility of the required online application process. So much for equality, opportunity, and independence for blind persons and other persons with disabilities, unable to possess a driver's license. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 6:54 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Michal Nowicki Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisiteto employment as an attorney Hello everyone, Perhaps, as Yasmin suggested, the state of Arizona uses the term "driver's license" to refer to all forms of picture identification. After all, unlike in other countries, where all citizens must obtain a national ID card, a driver's license functions as a valid form of identification in the United States, and most Americans have a driver's license. While this does not justify Arizona's discriminatory language, there is at least a legitimate possibility that the state does not mean to weed blind attorneys out of public legal posts through this requirement. If that is the case, maybe it will not be a barrier to employment, even if the government is unwilling to amend the language. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:25 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] requiring a Driver's License as a pre-requisite to employment as an attorney Hello Susie: Government is the most notorious organ ever created by humans that never thinks before it speaks! Government takes delight in letting out a lot of hot hair until its courts tell it to quit being silly. I personally don't understand or know how the posession of a driver's license should translate to mean that I'll do a good job at work, but again, it's government! Yes, they'll call me subversive for daring to express my views! So be it, I guess. Notice how government has managed to consistently exempt itself from the general provisions of the ADA? If this is NOT THE CASE, why are there so many government websites here in the state of Colorado that ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT accessible and finding a person to talk to about these sites is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE? As I write this, I am preparing to CHALLENGE the City & County of Denver in court for failing to make it ONLINE BUSINESS, OCCUPATIONAL PRIVILEGE and SALES TAX licenses filing apps inaccessible. Same goes for the state of Colorado's Revenue Online website. It's always easy to take on small businesses and other private entities for failing to meet ADA provisions, but government always gets unscathe! Wonderful, two wrongs truly don't make a right, and government can continue committing both wrongs! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/terrydeagle%40yahoo.co m From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jun 18 01:36:38 2015 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 20:36:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Reyazuddin v. Montgomery County, Maryland, No 14-1299 (4th Cir. June 15, 2015) Message-ID: > > >By Paul Mollica of Outten & Golden LLP posted in >Daily >Developments in EEO Law on Monday, June 15, 2015. > >New technology, if applied thoughtlessly, can >leave disabled employees behind. The Fourth >Circuit today reverses summary judgment in a >Rehabilitation Act case where a public employer >allegedly "opened a new, consolidated call >center using software that was inaccessible to blind employees." > >Reyazuddin >v. Montgomery County, Maryland, No 14-1299 (4th >Cir. June 15, 2015): The county moved its "its >1,500 telephone numbers for 38 offices and >departments into one call center that residents >could reach by dialing 311." The system (called >MC311) was powered by Siebel software, operated >in "high-interactivity" mode, which - "because >it is written in Microsoft ActiveX" - was >inaccessible to blind users because it used "a >technology that screen reader software cannot interpret." > >Had the county chosen to run at least some >stations in "standard-interactivity" mode, >though, the system would have been "accessible >because it is written in standard HTML and >Javascript" compatible with such readers. > >The county looked into making three features - >"CTI Toolbar, SmartScript, and Email Response" - >accessible to the blind, but was informed that >the software was not yet ready, and that an >intermediate fix would cost no less than >$200,000. The county declined to pursue that option. > >Reyazuddin, an Information and Referral Aide, >learned in 2009 that her position would be >transferred to MC311. She was not offered the >option of transferring, like her sighted >co-workers, and no other full-time work with the >county was offered in replacement. She was told >in 2010 "that she would not be transferring to >MC311 because it would be too expensive for the >County to make the software accessible." >Reyazuddin also applied for a transfer to MC311 in 2012, but was turned down. > >Her complaint alleged that the county in 2009 >"violated Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act >by (1) failing to accommodate her disability by >making MC311's software accessible and (2) >discriminating against her when it did not >transfer her to MC311 along with her coworkers." >She also alleged discrimination under Title II >of the ADA for not hiring her to fill the MC311 >vacancy in 2012. The plaintiff and county each >retained expert witnesses, who testified that >the cost of an accommodation at MC311 would have >been (respectively) $129,600 and $648,000. The >low-cost estimate was for a custom workaround "widget" for the CTI Toolbar. > >The district court granted summary judgment on all claims. > >The Fourth Circuit reverses summary judgment on >the 2009 Rehabilitation Act claim. (It affirmed >summary judgment on the 2012 claim, holding that >Title II did not create a cause of action for >discrimination in public employment.) The panel >holds that there are genuine disputes of material fact on three issues. > >(1) Whether Reyazudden could perform the >essential functions of her job with a reasonable >accommodation: Plaintiff established through her >expert (Temeko Richardson) that other public >employers were able to make comparable systems >accessible with a custom solution or by >operating simultaneously in high-interactivity >and standard-interactivity modes. While the >county contended that its system required >high-interactivity, the record was "silent about >the productivity of employees operating in >standard-interactivity mode." Moreover, a county >employee testified that plaintiff "certainly has >the knowledge, skills and abilities" to perform >the essential functions of the MC311 job. > >(2) Whether the County refused to make any >reasonable accommodation: While the county might >have accommodated Reyazudden by assigning her to >other work, the best that the county offered was >for her to retain her title, salary and >benefits, but without full-time duties. The >panel holds that there is a genuine dispute >about whether the make-work tasks offered to >plaintiff - resulting in no more than five hours >of work a day - were a reasonable accommodation. >Documentary evidence supported the plaintiff's >contention. "For example, an email from a County >employee shortly before Reyazuddin was assigned >to work in the Aging and Disability Unit >expressed concern that her job responsibilities >would be 'make work' as opposed to 'real, meaningful work.'" > >(3) Whether the county could prove that the >proposed accommodation constituted an "undue >hardship": The panel holds that the county did >not make out a defense of "undue hardship" as a >matter of law. The district court erred by >weighing and accepting the defense expert's cost estimate as more credible. > >"By concluding that the lowest estimate of cost >was "unsupported," the district court credited >the County's expert, Brad Ulrich, and >discredited Reyazuddin's expert, Temeko >Richardson. At this point, however, it is >undisputed that both Ulrich and Richardson >qualify as experts. The evidence therefore sets >up a battle of the experts, which should not be resolved at summary judgment." > >Moreover, the panel holds, the district court >exalted cost over every other factor, despite >that the relevant sections (42 U.S.C. §§ >12111(10)(B) and 12112(b)(5)(A)) provide a >non-exhaustive list of four factors to consider. >"For instance, the district court's analysis >does not mention the number of employees at >MC311 (forty-nine) or the considerable savings >the County realized from creating a centralized >call center ($10 million)." The county also >failed to make a record that the proposed >accommodation would degrade public services. > >The county also tried arguing that "the County's >budget for reasonable accommodations" was only $25,000. Holds the panel: > >"Allowing the County to prevail on its undue >hardship defense based on its own budgeting >decisions would effectively cede the legal >determination on this issue to the employer that >allegedly failed to accommodate an employee with >a disability. Taken to its logical extreme, the >employer could budget $0 for reasonable >accommodations and thereby always avoid liability." > >The panel also finds that there is genuine >dispute of material fact about whether the >county discriminated against Reyazuddin in 2009 >by not transferring her to MC311. The panel >notes that the county "has not offered any other >nondiscriminatory reason for not transferring >Reyazuddin," other than undue hardship. "Because >we hold that a genuine issue for trial remains >on the County's undue hardship defense, that >same issue precludes summary judgment for the >County under the McDonnell Douglas framework." >__._,_.___ > >---------- >Posted by: Sam Joehl > >---------- > >Reply >via web post • >Reply >to sender • >Reply >to group • >Start >a New Topic • >Messages >in this topic (1) > >Visit us on the web at >http://FedAccessibility.org/ >Visit >Your Group > >Yahoo! Groups > >• >Privacy >• >Unsubscribe >• Terms of Use > >. > >__,_._,___ David Andrews and long white cane Harry. E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org From chris.stewart at uky.edu Fri Jun 19 12:28:54 2015 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:28:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Footnotes and Endnotes in L. Rev. articles Message-ID: Hi folks, For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. Best, Chris -- Chris K. Stewart University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 Ph: (502)457-1757 From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 14:08:19 2015 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:08:19 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Footnotes and Endnotes in L. Rev. articles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Chris, I don't have much practical advice here. I had the same problem on my personal laptop. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be a problem on my work machine or the laptop with Jaws at the law school. So, I have been lucky enough thus far to be able to solve my problem by using an alternate machine. FWIW, when I spoke to Freedom scientific, they said this is a bug and they don't know why it happens with some copies of Jaws and not others. so the only thing I can recommend is to call FS and nag them to make fixing this bug a priority, as I imagine they may not get very many complaints about it. Laura On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > Hi folks, > > For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes > in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read > them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in > these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it > my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I > did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second > document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even > this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing > source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. > > Best, > Chris > > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal > Co-President, American Constitution Society > President, Election Law Society > California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Fri Jun 19 17:24:30 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:24:30 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Footnotes and Endnotes in L. Rev. articles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have had this problem at work ever since I started using JAWS at work. I will say that the nature of Word - at least on a network environment like ours - doesn't help the issue much, which may be part of the reason for the bug. I am able to work around it only because I still retain a very small amount of semi-usable vision, so I can force things by getting my mouse somewhere in the right area to start the reading. Not sure how much longer that will be possible, but it does speed things a little bit. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 7:08 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Footnotes and Endnotes in L. Rev. articles Hi Chris, I don't have much practical advice here. I had the same problem on my personal laptop. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be a problem on my work machine or the laptop with Jaws at the law school. So, I have been lucky enough thus far to be able to solve my problem by using an alternate machine. FWIW, when I spoke to Freedom scientific, they said this is a bug and they don't know why it happens with some copies of Jaws and not others. so the only thing I can recommend is to call FS and nag them to make fixing this bug a priority, as I imagine they may not get very many complaints about it. Laura On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > Hi folks, > > For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes > in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read > them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in > these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it > my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I > did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second > document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even > this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing > source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. > > Best, > Chris > > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior > Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution > Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the > Arts, B.F.A. 2010 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Jun 19 18:23:43 2015 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 12:23:43 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003301d0aabd$1330a3c0$3991eb40$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) [mailto:DOJlawjobs at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 12:06 PM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website: http://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. At Justice, diversity extends beyond race and gender. It includes differences in culture, ethnicity, economics, status as a veteran, generations, geography, sexual orientation, and includes individuals with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice, and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. What's new? New Mobile App! Get the latest information about legal careers at Justice with our mobile app, DOJ Law Jobs. Users can quickly and easily create personalized job searches based on practice area, geographic preference, and hiring organization. DOJ Law Jobs is available for free on iTunes for Apple iPhone and iPad, and the Play Store for Android devices. USAO Northern District of Alabama Assistant United States Attorney AL 06/19/2015 USAO District of Connecticut Assistant United States Attorney CT 06/19/2015 Civil Division (CIV) Trial Attorney - CLB-Frauds DC 06/19/2015 Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) Attorney Advisor - GS 13/14/15 DC 06/19/2015 USAO Eastern District of Pennsylvania Assistant United States Attorney PA 06/18/2015 USAO District of Utah Assistant United States Attorney UT 06/18/2015 USAO District of Utah Assistant United States Attorney UT 06/18/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Attorney Advisor (International) / Resident Legal Advisor, EUCOM 06/17/2015 USAO District of Arizona Assistant United States Attorney AZ 06/17/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Trial Attorney DC 06/17/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Supervisory Attorney Advisor/Regional Director (WHP) DC 06/17/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Lead Trial Attorney/Assistant Deputy Chief DC 06/17/2015 USAO Southern District of Iowa Assistant United States Attorney IA 06/16/2015 USAO District of North Dakota Assistant United States Attorney ND 06/15/2015 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Attorney Advisor(Deputy Associate Chief Counsel - Management Division) DC 06/15/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Supervisory Trial Attorney/Deputy Chief DC 06/15/2015 USAO District of Arizona Assistant United States Attorney AZ 06/12/2015 USAO Western District of Virginia Uncompensated Special Assistant United States Attorney VA 06/12/2015 USAO Northern District of Texas Assistant United States Attorney TX 06/12/2015 USAO Southern District of Texas Assistant United States Attorney TX 06/12/2015 Criminal Division (CRM) Program Manager - Reimbursable Detail - Western Hemisphere Programs DC 06/12/2015 The U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Attorney Recruitment and Management, continuously updates its outreach list for the distribution of attorney and legal intern vacancy announcements. If you would like to continue receiving these emails from the Department of Justice, please respond to this email with UPDATE in the subject line and provide the updated contact information listed below. If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: From awebb2168 at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 19:00:14 2015 From: awebb2168 at gmail.com (Andrew Webb) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:00:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Message-ID: <006c01d0aac2$2f715c00$8e541400$@com> Hello, Does anyone on the list have experience using Dragon Professional in tandem with JAWS? It's my understanding that J-Dictate is the program that enables the blind user to use the one program together with the other. If there is anyone here who has used these programs and cares to comment, has it been an effective and satisfactory experience? I'm searching for ways to make the writing, and even more so the editing process faster and more efficient than I find it to be using JAWS alone. One knowledgeable party recently told me that using Dragon by way of J-Dictate can be a great way to go, and of course I'd like to hear all possible perspectives on the question. Thanks, Andrew From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 19 19:12:29 2015 From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:12:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate In-Reply-To: <006c01d0aac2$2f715c00$8e541400$@com> References: <006c01d0aac2$2f715c00$8e541400$@com> Message-ID: <00ac01d0aac3$e44cfde0$ace6f9a0$@sbcglobal.net> Hi, I thought the connector program was called j-say unless there have been changes. The combo of dragon, j-say, and jaws is pretty expensive so I haven't experimented with it. Gary wunder uses all three from time to time. Bryan -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 2:00 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Andrew Webb Subject: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Hello, Does anyone on the list have experience using Dragon Professional in tandem with JAWS? It's my understanding that J-Dictate is the program that enables the blind user to use the one program together with the other. If there is anyone here who has used these programs and cares to comment, has it been an effective and satisfactory experience? I'm searching for ways to make the writing, and even more so the editing process faster and more efficient than I find it to be using JAWS alone. One knowledgeable party recently told me that using Dragon by way of J-Dictate can be a great way to go, and of course I'd like to hear all possible perspectives on the question. Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n et From awebb2168 at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 19:18:28 2015 From: awebb2168 at gmail.com (Andrew Webb) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:18:28 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate In-Reply-To: <00ac01d0aac3$e44cfde0$ace6f9a0$@sbcglobal.net> References: <006c01d0aac2$2f715c00$8e541400$@com> <00ac01d0aac3$e44cfde0$ace6f9a0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <004301d0aac4$b99a1820$2cce4860$@com> Thanks for your response. Just taking another person's word on it, my understanding is that J-Say is a more comprehensive program that allows the user to conduct all functions on the computer in much the same way that JAWS does, whereas J-Dictate is a more discrete program more specifically tailored to Dragon Professional. Not that I have firsthand experience, but I was told that a user who is proficient with JAWS probably wouldn't want to bother with J-Say, and that J-Dictate is quite a bit cheaper than J-Say. I believe I saw prices of about $120 for J-Dictate, and about $600 for Dragon Pro. Again, thank you. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 2:12 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Bryan Schulz Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Hi, I thought the connector program was called j-say unless there have been changes. The combo of dragon, j-say, and jaws is pretty expensive so I haven't experimented with it. Gary wunder uses all three from time to time. Bryan -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 2:00 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Andrew Webb Subject: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Hello, Does anyone on the list have experience using Dragon Professional in tandem with JAWS? It's my understanding that J-Dictate is the program that enables the blind user to use the one program together with the other. If there is anyone here who has used these programs and cares to comment, has it been an effective and satisfactory experience? I'm searching for ways to make the writing, and even more so the editing process faster and more efficient than I find it to be using JAWS alone. One knowledgeable party recently told me that using Dragon by way of J-Dictate can be a great way to go, and of course I'd like to hear all possible perspectives on the question. Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awebb2168%40gmail.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Fri Jun 19 19:57:41 2015 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Dan Beitz) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 19:57:41 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate In-Reply-To: <004301d0aac4$b99a1820$2cce4860$@com> References: <006c01d0aac2$2f715c00$8e541400$@com> <00ac01d0aac3$e44cfde0$ace6f9a0$@sbcglobal.net> <004301d0aac4$b99a1820$2cce4860$@com> Message-ID: I use Dragon legal, with jaws. I have it set up as push to talk, and I don't use any other product. Works pretty good. Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com www.wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 3:18 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Andrew Webb Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Thanks for your response. Just taking another person's word on it, my understanding is that J-Say is a more comprehensive program that allows the user to conduct all functions on the computer in much the same way that JAWS does, whereas J-Dictate is a more discrete program more specifically tailored to Dragon Professional. Not that I have firsthand experience, but I was told that a user who is proficient with JAWS probably wouldn't want to bother with J-Say, and that J-Dictate is quite a bit cheaper than J-Say. I believe I saw prices of about $120 for J-Dictate, and about $600 for Dragon Pro. Again, thank you. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 2:12 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Bryan Schulz Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Hi, I thought the connector program was called j-say unless there have been changes. The combo of dragon, j-say, and jaws is pretty expensive so I haven't experimented with it. Gary wunder uses all three from time to time. Bryan -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 2:00 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Andrew Webb Subject: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Hello, Does anyone on the list have experience using Dragon Professional in tandem with JAWS? It's my understanding that J-Dictate is the program that enables the blind user to use the one program together with the other. If there is anyone here who has used these programs and cares to comment, has it been an effective and satisfactory experience? I'm searching for ways to make the writing, and even more so the editing process faster and more efficient than I find it to be using JAWS alone. One knowledgeable party recently told me that using Dragon by way of J-Dictate can be a great way to go, and of course I'd like to hear all possible perspectives on the question. Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awebb2168%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould.com From al.elia at aol.com Fri Jun 19 21:43:40 2015 From: al.elia at aol.com (Al Elia) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:43:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Footnotes and Endnotes in L. Rev. articles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7047EABC-1241-469B-A05B-51E68A83A545@aol.com> Author them in markdown. Then, use pandoc to convert the markdown to a word file. It will handle the footnotes for you, then you can simply clean up your formatting in word. Best, Al, who is brusquer than usual because he's typing on an iPhone. > On Jun 19, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > I don't have much practical advice here. I had the same problem on my > personal laptop. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be a problem on my > work machine or the laptop with Jaws at the law school. So, I have > been lucky enough thus far to be able to solve my problem by using an > alternate machine. > > FWIW, when I spoke to Freedom scientific, they said this is a bug and > they don't know why it happens with some copies of Jaws and not > others. so the only thing I can recommend is to call FS and nag them > to make fixing this bug a priority, as I imagine they may not get very > many complaints about it. > > Laura > >> On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes >> in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read >> them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in >> these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it >> my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I >> did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second >> document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even >> this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing >> source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. >> >> Best, >> Chris >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris K. Stewart >> University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 >> Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal >> Co-President, American Constitution Society >> President, Election Law Society >> California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 >> Ph: >> (502)457-1757 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > > -- > Laura Wolk > Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 > Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 > (484) 695-8234 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/al.elia%40aol.com From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Sat Jun 20 15:27:36 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (Anita Keith-Foust) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 11:27:36 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate In-Reply-To: References: <006c01d0aac2$2f715c00$8e541400$@com> <00ac01d0aac3$e44cfde0$ace6f9a0$@sbcglobal.net> <004301d0aac4$b99a1820$2cce4860$@com> Message-ID: <020401d0ab6d$a39154e0$eab3fea0$@gmail.com> Thanks for the tip. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Beitz via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 3:58 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Dan Beitz Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate I use Dragon legal, with jaws. I have it set up as push to talk, and I don't use any other product. Works pretty good. Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com www.wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 3:18 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Andrew Webb Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Thanks for your response. Just taking another person's word on it, my understanding is that J-Say is a more comprehensive program that allows the user to conduct all functions on the computer in much the same way that JAWS does, whereas J-Dictate is a more discrete program more specifically tailored to Dragon Professional. Not that I have firsthand experience, but I was told that a user who is proficient with JAWS probably wouldn't want to bother with J-Say, and that J-Dictate is quite a bit cheaper than J-Say. I believe I saw prices of about $120 for J-Dictate, and about $600 for Dragon Pro. Again, thank you. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 2:12 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Bryan Schulz Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Hi, I thought the connector program was called j-say unless there have been changes. The combo of dragon, j-say, and jaws is pretty expensive so I haven't experimented with it. Gary wunder uses all three from time to time. Bryan -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb via blindlaw Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 2:00 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Andrew Webb Subject: [blindlaw] Dragon Professional with J-Dictate Hello, Does anyone on the list have experience using Dragon Professional in tandem with JAWS? It's my understanding that J-Dictate is the program that enables the blind user to use the one program together with the other. If there is anyone here who has used these programs and cares to comment, has it been an effective and satisfactory experience? I'm searching for ways to make the writing, and even more so the editing process faster and more efficient than I find it to be using JAWS alone. One knowledgeable party recently told me that using Dragon by way of J-Dictate can be a great way to go, and of course I'd like to hear all possible perspectives on the question. Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awebb2168%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/anitakeithfoust%40gmai l.com From tim at timeldermusic.com Sat Jun 20 16:38:51 2015 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 09:38:51 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Footnotes and Endnotes in L. Rev. articles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00f901d0ab77$9747d6f0$c5d784d0$@timeldermusic.com> HI Chris, I also notice that JAWS has significant delay when verbalizing the footnotes and endnotes pain. One trick is to hold shift down when navigating. For an unknown reason the process of selecting the text speeds up the speech processing with JAWS. Using a braille display to review the content also helps. -----Original Message----- From: Laura Wolk [mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 7:08 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Footnotes and Endnotes in L. Rev. articles Hi Chris, I don't have much practical advice here. I had the same problem on my personal laptop. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be a problem on my work machine or the laptop with Jaws at the law school. So, I have been lucky enough thus far to be able to solve my problem by using an alternate machine. FWIW, when I spoke to Freedom scientific, they said this is a bug and they don't know why it happens with some copies of Jaws and not others. so the only thing I can recommend is to call FS and nag them to make fixing this bug a priority, as I imagine they may not get very many complaints about it. Laura On 6/19/15, Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw wrote: > Hi folks, > > For the past year, I've simply struggled with footnotes and endnotes > in my law journal assignments, patiently waiting for JAWS to read > them. I've heard others complain of JAWS' lack of responsiveness in > these fields, but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Is it > my computer? Is it Word? Is there any sort of workaround? One thing I > did was to copy and paste all the footnotes into the body of a second > document, edit them accordingly, then paste them back in, but even > this is clumbsy when I already have several documents open containing > source material, my own notes, Etc. I appreciate any advice. > > Best, > Chris > > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior > Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution > Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the > Arts, B.F.A. 2010 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com > -- Laura Wolk Notre Dame Law Review, Federal Courts and Submissions Editor, Vol. 91 Notre Dame Law School, J.D. Candidate, 2016 (484) 695-8234 From awebb2168 at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 21:34:04 2015 From: awebb2168 at gmail.com (Andrew Webb) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 16:34:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] School transportation Message-ID: <006b01d0ad33$29eeaf30$7dcc0d90$@com> Hello, A blind parent will be sending a child to the local public school beginning in the fall. There are some transportation issues and the parent is really hoping to have school bus service for the child. However, the school district has a general policy limiting bus service to students who live at least a certain distance away from the school, and this family lives closer than that distance. The parent is a capable traveler but there are some formidable travel obstacles between home and school in this case, particularly in inclement winter weather. The student in question does not have any disability, thus there is no IEP and no 504 plan, thus no obligation for the school to provide transportation as a special education service. That said, is anyone here aware of any argument based on the ADA, Rehabilitation Act, or otherwise to the effect that the school must provide this child with transportation, so as not to discriminate against the parent on the basis of the parent's disability? Incidentally, the child is far too young to travel independently between home and school. All feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Andrew From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Mon Jun 22 21:59:05 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 21:59:05 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] School transportation In-Reply-To: <006b01d0ad33$29eeaf30$7dcc0d90$@com> References: <006b01d0ad33$29eeaf30$7dcc0d90$@com> Message-ID: I do not know enough (yet) on arguing the ADA, but just from my own use of the para-transit service to and from work each day (living in southern Arizona, regular buses and taxis are not much of an option for any type of travel), I know that many blind and also physically disabled parents do transport their younger children to school on the vans. We are all allowed to take a "companion", even if that person is not a personal assistant, assuming we reserve their space and pay the same amount for that person as for their own ride. Just an option for now, if that type of service is available in that town. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 2:34 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Andrew Webb Subject: [blindlaw] School transportation Hello, A blind parent will be sending a child to the local public school beginning in the fall. There are some transportation issues and the parent is really hoping to have school bus service for the child. However, the school district has a general policy limiting bus service to students who live at least a certain distance away from the school, and this family lives closer than that distance. The parent is a capable traveler but there are some formidable travel obstacles between home and school in this case, particularly in inclement winter weather. The student in question does not have any disability, thus there is no IEP and no 504 plan, thus no obligation for the school to provide transportation as a special education service. That said, is anyone here aware of any argument based on the ADA, Rehabilitation Act, or otherwise to the effect that the school must provide this child with transportation, so as not to discriminate against the parent on the basis of the parent's disability? Incidentally, the child is far too young to travel independently between home and school. All feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From becsjoynfb at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 22:42:57 2015 From: becsjoynfb at gmail.com (Rebecca Leon) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 17:42:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Deputy Clark position question Message-ID: <39D567CB-D85E-43CB-8752-B3E21E455617@gmail.com> I hope you are all well and are getting ready and excited for convention this year. I wanted to email you all with a few questions concerning the role of a court clark As a social worker, I have had a job position come available as a deputy clerk and Spanish translator for the juvenile court in Nashville Tennessee. I am positive that I have the skills necessary for this job but I am going in for the interview tomorrow and want to be sure that I can realistically address potential concerns they might have. If you all have any advice on this, it would be so appreciated. My questions are as follows and are generally directed to anyone who has served as the court clerk, although if you have not but would like to give advice, that is welcome as well: What kind of filing systems are used by the court, and can they be accessible to blind people generally (are they electronic?) Have you used any specific accommodations which you found helpful or even invaluable? Is there specific terminology which I personally should be aware of? During your election/hiring process did you ever address concerns related to disability? Do you have any other advice which does not fit into the above. Questions? Thank you for your help and advice Rebecca ~ When a man loves, he seeks no power, and therefore, he has power. ~Alan Paton From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Mon Jun 22 22:52:18 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 22:52:18 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Deputy Clark position question In-Reply-To: <39D567CB-D85E-43CB-8752-B3E21E455617@gmail.com> References: <39D567CB-D85E-43CB-8752-B3E21E455617@gmail.com> Message-ID: As a bi-lingual public defender at a juvenile court in southern Arizona - our files are both electronic and paper. Nashville is likely in the same boat, since the metro area is similar in size. The electronic is not completely accessible, although if someone took the time and effort (which I have neither the time nor the authorization), it could probably be scripted and tweaked to work quite well with JAWS. There are different terms that are used as opposed to an adult system, so those will also require slightly different vocabulary. If you need it at some point, please feel free to e-mail me off-list. Good luck with the interview! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rebecca Leon via blindlaw Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 3:43 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Rebecca Leon Subject: [blindlaw] Deputy Clark position question I hope you are all well and are getting ready and excited for convention this year. I wanted to email you all with a few questions concerning the role of a court clark As a social worker, I have had a job position come available as a deputy clerk and Spanish translator for the juvenile court in Nashville Tennessee. I am positive that I have the skills necessary for this job but I am going in for the interview tomorrow and want to be sure that I can realistically address potential concerns they might have. If you all have any advice on this, it would be so appreciated. My questions are as follows and are generally directed to anyone who has served as the court clerk, although if you have not but would like to give advice, that is welcome as well: What kind of filing systems are used by the court, and can they be accessible to blind people generally (are they electronic?) Have you used any specific accommodations which you found helpful or even invaluable? Is there specific terminology which I personally should be aware of? During your election/hiring process did you ever address concerns related to disability? Do you have any other advice which does not fit into the above. Questions? Thank you for your help and advice Rebecca ~ When a man loves, he seeks no power, and therefore, he has power. ~Alan Paton _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Jun 23 20:46:31 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 20:46:31 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies Update In-Reply-To: <17492279.497@public.govdelivery.com> References: <17492279.497@public.govdelivery.com> Message-ID: This DOJ position looks particularly interesting From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 1:17 PM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Attorney Vacancies Update [Image removed by sender. U.S. Department of Justice] You are subscribed to Attorney Vacancies for U.S. Department of Justice. This page has recently been updated with the following new information: Trial Attorney 06/23/2015 02:03 PM EDT Civil Rights Division (CRT) Appellate Section Washington, DC Announcement #: 15-ATT-013 Application Deadline: August 6, 2015 The incumbent, under appropriate supervision, will represent the United States in the enforcement of federal civil rights laws in the United States Courts of Appeals, and will work closely with the Office of the Solicitor General to represent the United States' interests in civil rights cases before the United States Supreme Court. Cases in which the United States is a party may be criminal or civil in nature. The incumbent also will review cases in which the United States is not a party for possible participation as amicus curiae, and will prepare recommendations for the Office of the Solicitor General. The incumbent will provide legal counsel on civil rights or related legal issues to Division trial sections, Division and Department leadership and to other federal offices as required. The incumbent also may be called on to assist in trial-level litigation in selected cases of unusual complexity or importance. ________________________________ [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] Follow DOJ on Twitter. | [Image removed by sender. FaceBook icon] Like DOJ on Facebook. | [Image removed by sender. YouTube] Follow DOJ on YouTube. ________________________________ You have received this e-mail because you have asked to be notified of changes to the U.S. Department of Justice website. GovDelivery is providing this service on behalf of the Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW * Washington, DC 20530 * 202-514-2000 and may not use your subscription information for any other purposes. Manage your Subscriptions | Department of Justice Privacy Policy | GovDelivery Privacy Policy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 930 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jun 24 20:47:22 2015 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 15:47:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fwd: Grantwriting guidance Message-ID: I am circulating the below message to one of our users. Please respond to him at the address near the end of the message as he isn't likely to be subscribed to this list. Dave >From: "jonathan alpert" >To: "'David Andrews'" >Subject: Grantwriting guidance > >Grantwriter guidance > >My name is Jonathan Alpert. I am trying to find a new career. I took an on >line class on grantwriting and I loved it. I have so much information (maybe >too much) >I have been volunteering my time looking for grants for a few different >organizations. However, when I went to put my new knowledge to practice, >things weren't falling into place. I do not know anyone in the field of >grant writing and since I am not working under anyone, I do not have a >supervisor who I can ask questions of in the field. > >I am looking for someone who is in the grantwriting field who would be >willing to give me some guidance for this rookie and answer some questions >as well as a person who could share with me their experience of being a >blind grantwriter. > >Hey, maybe if there is enough interest, we can make a mailing list for >blind grantwriters? > >If you are interested in helping me out, please contact me at the below >email address. >Thank you for your time. > >Jonathan Alpert >Jna3434 at comcast.net From samarositz at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 21:00:52 2015 From: samarositz at gmail.com (Stephen Alexander Marositz) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:00:52 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's Message-ID: <006f01d0aec0$dbcaf6d0$9360e470$@gmail.com> Hello List I am taking the California Bar in July. I received an accommodations letter granting me the following relevant accommodations for the essay and PT sections. 1. My own laptop for use with ExamSoft 2. Extra time 3. Jaws Screen reader It is my understanding ExamSoft prevents Jaws and all other software from running during the testing session. My information is a few years out of date. Is that still true? If so, How do I reconcile the Jaws and ExamSoft conflict aspects of my accommodations? Have any of you gotten a similar response? For what it's worth, my request for accommodations packet was complete and extremely thorough Thanks for all your help with this. Alex From schorschj at comcast.net Wed Jun 24 21:36:47 2015 From: schorschj at comcast.net (Jon Schorsch) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:36:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's In-Reply-To: <006f01d0aec0$dbcaf6d0$9360e470$@gmail.com> References: <006f01d0aec0$dbcaf6d0$9360e470$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01bc01d0aec5$e0144700$a03cd500$@comcast.net> Alex, I am also taking the Washington State Bar exam next month. I have yet to receive notification of my accommodations, but do know I requested not to use Exam Soft because I have found it was not compatible. For my exams in law school, the school allowed me to take them on my own laptop without Exam Soft because of this issue. I graduated this past December and do not know if there have been any updates to the program. Best of luck and keep us updated on what you find out. I will do the same. Jon Schorsch -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 2:01 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's Hello List I am taking the California Bar in July. I received an accommodations letter granting me the following relevant accommodations for the essay and PT sections. 1. My own laptop for use with ExamSoft 2. Extra time 3. Jaws Screen reader It is my understanding ExamSoft prevents Jaws and all other software from running during the testing session. My information is a few years out of date. Is that still true? If so, How do I reconcile the Jaws and ExamSoft conflict aspects of my accommodations? Have any of you gotten a similar response? For what it's worth, my request for accommodations packet was complete and extremely thorough Thanks for all your help with this. Alex _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/schorschj%40comcast.ne t From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Wed Jun 24 21:48:56 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 16:48:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's In-Reply-To: <006f01d0aec0$dbcaf6d0$9360e470$@gmail.com> References: <006f01d0aec0$dbcaf6d0$9360e470$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001d0aec7$92e80af0$b8b820d0$@icloud.com> Hello, Alex, I have not yet started law school, but I also heard, very recently, that ExamSoft is inaccessible. Did you explain this in your request for accommodations? At this point, you will probably need to file an appeal. Good luck, and keep us posted. Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 4:01 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's Hello List I am taking the California Bar in July. I received an accommodations letter granting me the following relevant accommodations for the essay and PT sections. 1. My own laptop for use with ExamSoft 2. Extra time 3. Jaws Screen reader It is my understanding ExamSoft prevents Jaws and all other software from running during the testing session. My information is a few years out of date. Is that still true? If so, How do I reconcile the Jaws and ExamSoft conflict aspects of my accommodations? Have any of you gotten a similar response? For what it's worth, my request for accommodations packet was complete and extremely thorough Thanks for all your help with this. Alex _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From samarositz at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 22:09:06 2015 From: samarositz at gmail.com (Stephen Alexander Marositz) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 15:09:06 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's In-Reply-To: <000001d0aec7$92e80af0$b8b820d0$@icloud.com> References: <006f01d0aec0$dbcaf6d0$9360e470$@gmail.com> <000001d0aec7$92e80af0$b8b820d0$@icloud.com> Message-ID: <001501d0aeca$69683c10$3c38b430$@gmail.com> Hi All I got an e-mail back from them. Looks like we got it straightened out. They sent the letter on fancy paper which was a little difficult for me to scan. As an aside, I have FreedomScientific's Openbook with a pearl camera at home but no flatbed scanner. That's not the best way to go. Here is my relevant accommodation sent to me by e-mail. . Permission to use your own laptop computer during the Essay and Performance Test sessions of the examination, with JAWS screen-reading software installed, and a printer (which you must provide), which conform to the Committee's policies, both subject to inspection by staff; Note: it doesn't say "no ExamSoft." One other thing I find a bit annoying, I have to provide my own printer and CD drive, neither of which I currently own. If you plan to take the bar soon, those are some things to think about. Anyways, thanks for the quick responses and I apologize for sounding the alarm a bit prematurely. Take Care Alex -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 2:49 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Michal Nowicki Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's Hello, Alex, I have not yet started law school, but I also heard, very recently, that ExamSoft is inaccessible. Did you explain this in your request for accommodations? At this point, you will probably need to file an appeal. Good luck, and keep us posted. Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Alexander Marositz via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 4:01 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's Hello List I am taking the California Bar in July. I received an accommodations letter granting me the following relevant accommodations for the essay and PT sections. 1. My own laptop for use with ExamSoft 2. Extra time 3. Jaws Screen reader It is my understanding ExamSoft prevents Jaws and all other software from running during the testing session. My information is a few years out of date. Is that still true? If so, How do I reconcile the Jaws and ExamSoft conflict aspects of my accommodations? Have any of you gotten a similar response? For what it's worth, my request for accommodations packet was complete and extremely thorough Thanks for all your help with this. Alex _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com From chris.stewart at uky.edu Thu Jun 25 12:14:36 2015 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 08:14:36 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Accommodations Message-ID: I attempt using the new upgrade of Examsoft every semester because I'm always curious whether they will fix the issue. As of May, they had not. Examsoft is aware of the problem, and on a related note, they should be ashamed of themselves as should the bar examiners who continually promote the use of the software. Of course, Examsoft took a major beating from the legal community last year when bar takers across the country were left attempting to upload their exams until midnight, with the fear that they would automatically fail if their exams weren't received. That, when they still had another full day's testing the following day prompted heavy criticism of Examsoft. Do you have a scribe in the room with you? If so, that person could insure that you weren't accessing any other program on your computer then copy and paste your answers into Examsoft at the end. Best, Chris On 6/25/15, blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Fwd: Grantwriting guidance (David Andrews) > 2. Bar Exam Test Accommodation's (Stephen Alexander Marositz) > 3. Re: Bar Exam Test Accommodation's (Jon Schorsch) > 4. Re: Bar Exam Test Accommodation's (Michal Nowicki) > 5. Re: Bar Exam Test Accommodation's (Stephen Alexander Marositz) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 15:47:22 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] Fwd: Grantwriting guidance > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I am circulating the below message to one of our users. Please > respond to him at the address near the end of the message as he isn't > likely to be subscribed to this list. > > Dave > > > > >>From: "jonathan alpert" >>To: "'David Andrews'" >>Subject: Grantwriting guidance >> >>Grantwriter guidance >> >>My name is Jonathan Alpert. I am trying to find a new career. I took an on >>line class on grantwriting and I loved it. I have so much information >> (maybe >>too much) >>I have been volunteering my time looking for grants for a few different >>organizations. However, when I went to put my new knowledge to practice, >>things weren't falling into place. I do not know anyone in the field of >>grant writing and since I am not working under anyone, I do not have a >>supervisor who I can ask questions of in the field. >> >>I am looking for someone who is in the grantwriting field who would be >>willing to give me some guidance for this rookie and answer some >> questions >>as well as a person who could share with me their experience of being a >>blind grantwriter. >> >>Hey, maybe if there is enough interest, we can make a mailing list for >>blind grantwriters? >> >>If you are interested in helping me out, please contact me at the below >>email address. >>Thank you for your time. >> >>Jonathan Alpert >>Jna3434 at comcast.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:00:52 -0700 > From: "Stephen Alexander Marositz" > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's > Message-ID: <006f01d0aec0$dbcaf6d0$9360e470$@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello List > > > > I am taking the California Bar in July. I received an accommodations > letter > granting me the following relevant accommodations for the essay and PT > sections. > > 1. My own laptop for use with ExamSoft > > 2. Extra time > > 3. Jaws Screen reader > > > > It is my understanding ExamSoft prevents Jaws and all other software from > running during the testing session. My information is a few years out of > date. Is that still true? If so, How do I reconcile the Jaws and ExamSoft > conflict aspects of my accommodations? Have any of you gotten a similar > response? > > > > For what it's worth, my request for accommodations packet was complete and > extremely thorough > > Thanks for all your help with this. > > > > Alex > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:36:47 -0700 > From: "Jon Schorsch" > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's > Message-ID: <01bc01d0aec5$e0144700$a03cd500$@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Alex, > > I am also taking the Washington State Bar exam next month. I have yet to > receive notification of my accommodations, but do know I requested not to > use Exam Soft because I have found it was not compatible. > For my exams in law school, the school allowed me to take them on my own > laptop without Exam Soft because of this issue. I graduated this past > December and do not know if there have been any updates to the program. > > Best of luck and keep us updated on what you find out. I will do the same. > > > Jon Schorsch > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen > Alexander Marositz via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 2:01 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz > Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's > > Hello List > > > > I am taking the California Bar in July. I received an accommodations > letter > granting me the following relevant accommodations for the essay and PT > sections. > > 1. My own laptop for use with ExamSoft > > 2. Extra time > > 3. Jaws Screen reader > > > > It is my understanding ExamSoft prevents Jaws and all other software from > running during the testing session. My information is a few years out of > date. Is that still true? If so, How do I reconcile the Jaws and ExamSoft > conflict aspects of my accommodations? Have any of you gotten a similar > response? > > > > For what it's worth, my request for accommodations packet was complete and > extremely thorough > > Thanks for all your help with this. > > > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/schorschj%40comcast.ne > t > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 16:48:56 -0500 > From: Michal Nowicki > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's > Message-ID: <000001d0aec7$92e80af0$b8b820d0$@icloud.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello, Alex, > > I have not yet started law school, but I also heard, very recently, that > ExamSoft is inaccessible. Did you explain this in your request for > accommodations? At this point, you will probably need to file an appeal. > Good luck, and keep us posted. > > Michal > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen > Alexander Marositz via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 4:01 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz > Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's > > Hello List > > > > I am taking the California Bar in July. I received an accommodations > letter > granting me the following relevant accommodations for the essay and PT > sections. > > 1. My own laptop for use with ExamSoft > > 2. Extra time > > 3. Jaws Screen reader > > > > It is my understanding ExamSoft prevents Jaws and all other software from > running during the testing session. My information is a few years out of > date. Is that still true? If so, How do I reconcile the Jaws and ExamSoft > conflict aspects of my accommodations? Have any of you gotten a similar > response? > > > > For what it's worth, my request for accommodations packet was complete and > extremely thorough > > Thanks for all your help with this. > > > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 15:09:06 -0700 > From: "Stephen Alexander Marositz" > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's > Message-ID: <001501d0aeca$69683c10$3c38b430$@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi All > > I got an e-mail back from them. Looks like we got it straightened out. > They sent the letter on fancy paper which was a little difficult for me to > scan. As an aside, I have FreedomScientific's Openbook with a pearl > camera at home but no flatbed scanner. That's not the best way to go. > > Here is my relevant accommodation sent to me by e-mail. > . Permission to use your own laptop computer during the Essay and > Performance Test sessions of the examination, with JAWS screen-reading > software installed, and a printer (which you must provide), which conform > to > the Committee's policies, both subject to inspection by staff; > > Note: it doesn't say "no ExamSoft." > > One other thing I find a bit annoying, I have to provide my own printer and > CD drive, neither of which I currently own. If you plan to take the bar > soon, those are some things to think about. > > Anyways, thanks for the quick responses and I apologize for sounding the > alarm a bit prematurely. > > Take Care > > Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal > Nowicki via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 2:49 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Michal Nowicki > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's > > Hello, Alex, > > I have not yet started law school, but I also heard, very recently, that > ExamSoft is inaccessible. Did you explain this in your request for > accommodations? At this point, you will probably need to file an appeal. > Good luck, and keep us posted. > > Michal > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephen > Alexander Marositz via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 4:01 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Stephen Alexander Marositz > Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam Test Accommodation's > > Hello List > > > > I am taking the California Bar in July. I received an accommodations > letter > granting me the following relevant accommodations for the essay and PT > sections. > > 1. My own laptop for use with ExamSoft > > 2. Extra time > > 3. Jaws Screen reader > > > > It is my understanding ExamSoft prevents Jaws and all other software from > running during the testing session. My information is a few years out of > date. Is that still true? If so, How do I reconcile the Jaws and ExamSoft > conflict aspects of my accommodations? Have any of you gotten a similar > response? > > > > For what it's worth, my request for accommodations packet was complete and > extremely thorough > > Thanks for all your help with this. > > > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/samarositz%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 133, Issue 20 > ***************************************** > -- Chris K. Stewart University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 Ph: (502)457-1757 From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jun 25 17:30:24 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 17:30:24 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies Update In-Reply-To: <17493871.496@public.govdelivery.com> References: <17493871.496@public.govdelivery.com> Message-ID: From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 9:18 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Attorney Vacancies Update [Image removed by sender. U.S. Department of Justice] You are subscribed to Attorney Vacancies for U.S. Department of Justice. This page has recently been updated with the following new information: Principal Deputy Chief, Disability Rights Section 06/25/2015 11:33 AM EDT Civil Rights Division (CRT) Disability Rights Section Washington, DC Announcement #: 15-SES-CRD-008 Application Deadline: July 14, 2015 As Principal Deputy Chief, the successful candidate will assist the Section Chief in planning and directing a nationwide program to enforce the federal civil rights laws prohibiting discrimination against people with disabilities, to promulgate regulations to interpret and implement the requirements of the ADA, and to provide technical assistance to the general public, to State and local governments, to private entities covered by Title III, and to people with disabilities. Responsibilities include: Advising the Section Chief on personnel, overall management planning, litigative program development, budget, and other matters; and participating in the decisional process relating to these subjects. S/he supervises directly and through subordinate managers and supervisors, attorneys, investigators, and support personnel; Supervising various administrative tasks, including evaluating attorneys; Overseeing the preparation of, review, and editing of legal memoranda, complaints, other pleadings, discovery requests and responses, motions, briefs, proposed consent decrees and other legal and technical assistance documents. Overseeing all aspects of pretrial discovery and motion practices to ensure the development of testimonial and documentary evidence for trial. Personally handling the most sensitive and difficult cases; Meeting, coordinating, and fostering good working relationships with the United States Attorneys' Offices, other Department of Justice (DOJ or Department) components, federal regulatory agencies, and other partner agencies; Coordinating with counsel for private litigants in cases in which the Government intervenes; conferring with the United States Attorneys' Offices at all important stages of litigation; and meeting with the public (and their delegations), law enforcement entities, and others; Consulting with and advising DOJ officials at the highest echelon, reporting on the immediate status of civil rights matters that fall under the DRS Section's areas of responsibility; Consulting and advising the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights and the Deputy Assistant Attorneys General. Coordinating with the Division's other litigation Section Chiefs and Deputy Chiefs as appropriate; and Speaking at meetings and conferences to educate other governmental agencies, industry, and/or the public about the work of DRS. Meeting and conducting outreach to community organizations and other interested parties. ________________________________ [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] Follow DOJ on Twitter. | [Image removed by sender. FaceBook icon] Like DOJ on Facebook. | [Image removed by sender. YouTube] Follow DOJ on YouTube. ________________________________ You have received this e-mail because you have asked to be notified of changes to the U.S. Department of Justice website. GovDelivery is providing this service on behalf of the Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW * Washington, DC 20530 * 202-514-2000 and may not use your subscription information for any other purposes. Manage your Subscriptions | Department of Justice Privacy Policy | GovDelivery Privacy Policy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 930 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From chris.stewart at uky.edu Thu Jun 25 18:37:30 2015 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 14:37:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Slightly OT, opening Bookshare books in Openbook Message-ID: Hi All, This probably isn't the perfect list for this, but I imagine someone can tell me. A couple of my law school texts for next semester are, wonder of wonders, available on Bookshare. Can anyone tell me how to open a Bookshare book in Openbook? Thanks in advance. Best, Chris -- Chris K. Stewart University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 Ph: (502)457-1757 From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Thu Jun 25 19:06:42 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 14:06:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Slightly OT, opening Bookshare books in Openbook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000201d0af7a$13972d90$3ac588b0$@icloud.com> Chris, Opening Bookshare books in OpenBook works the same as opening any other document. Just make sure to choose DAISY as the document type in the open file dialogue box, and browse to the appropriate folder on your machine. Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:38 PM To: blindlaw Cc: Stewart, Christopher K Subject: [blindlaw] Slightly OT, opening Bookshare books in Openbook Hi All, This probably isn't the perfect list for this, but I imagine someone can tell me. A couple of my law school texts for next semester are, wonder of wonders, available on Bookshare. Can anyone tell me how to open a Bookshare book in Openbook? Thanks in advance. Best, Chris -- Chris K. Stewart University of Kentucky College of Law, J.D. Candidate, 2016 Senior Staff Editor, Kentucky Law Journal Co-President, American Constitution Society President, Election Law Society California Institute of the Arts, B.F.A. 2010 Ph: (502)457-1757 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV Fri Jun 26 13:59:38 2015 From: Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV (Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR)) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:59:38 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: General Attorney Positions (GS-11/12/13/14) - Civil Rights Division (CLOSES July 17th) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thought some on this list might be interested. /s/ Bennett Prows From: OCR HIPAA Privacy Rule information distribution [mailto:OCR-PRIVACY-LIST at LIST.NIH.GOV] On Behalf Of OS OCR PrivacyList, OCR (HHS/OS) Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 9:03 AM To: OCR-PRIVACY-LIST at LIST.NIH.GOV Subject: VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: General Attorney Positions (GS-11/12/13/14) - Civil Rights Division (CLOSES July 17th) The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Office of the General Counsel, Civil Rights Division is seeking applicants with at least one year of legal experience post bar for two general attorney positions in Washington, D.C. at the GS-11 to GS-14 level ($63,722 - 139,523). The attorneys will provide legal advice and services to the Office for Civil Rights (OCR), in one position, in regard to the enforcement and administration of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Privacy, Security, and Breach Notification Rules; and in the other position, in regard to civil rights issues with a primary focus on the on the enforcement and administration of Section 1557 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which prohibits discrimination in certain health programs or activities on the basis of race, color, national origin, age, sex, and disability. Applications may be submitted until July 17, 2015. See attached announcements for additional information. To learn more about non-discrimination and health information privacy laws, your civil rights, and privacy rights in health care and human service settings, and to find information on filing a complaint, visit us at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/office Follow us on Twitter @HHSOCR ### ________________________________________________________________________________________________________ This email is being sent to you from the OCR-Privacy-List listserv, operated by the Office for Civil Rights (OCR) in the US Department of Health and Human Services. This is an announce-only list, a resource to distribute information about the HIPAA Privacy and Security Rules. For additional information on a wide range of topics about the Privacy and Security Rules, please visit the OCR Privacy website at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/index.html. You can also call the OCR Privacy toll-free phone line at (866) 627-7748. Information about OCR's civil rights authorities and responsibilities can be found on the OCR home page at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/office/index.html. If you believe that a person or organization covered by the Privacy and Security Rules (a "covered entity") violated your health information privacy rights or otherwise violated the Privacy or Security Rules, you may file a complaint with OCR. For additional information about how to file a complaint, visit OCR's web page on filing complaints at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/complaints/index.html. To subscribe to or unsubscribe from the list serv, go to https://list.nih.gov/cgi-bin/wa.exe?SUBED1=OCR-PRIVACY-LIST&A=1. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OGC General Attorney CR Division - CR.DOCX Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 60626 bytes Desc: OGC General Attorney CR Division - CR.DOCX URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OGC General Attorney CR Division - HIPAA.DOCX Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 60303 bytes Desc: OGC General Attorney CR Division - HIPAA.DOCX URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Jun 26 22:34:57 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 22:34:57 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Request for Resumes - Supervisory General Attorney (Team Leader) and Supervisory EOS Boston Office for Civil Rights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil rights' Boston Office is considering resumes for two available Supervisory Team Leader positions. We have posted on USAJOBs for a GS-0905-14 and GS-360-14. Anyone interested in the Supervisory General Attorney (GS-905-14) position or Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist can email a resume and letter of interest to me by July 9, 2015. Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist (Team Leader), GS-360-14, DEU http://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/408094800 Department: Department Of Education Agency: Office for Civil Rights Number of Job Opportunities & Location(s): 1 vacancies - Boston, Massachusetts Salary: $107,826.00 to $140,174.00 / Per Year Series and Grade: GS-0360-14 Open Period: Thursday, June 25, 2015 to Thursday, July 9, 2015 Position Information: Permanent - Full-Time Who May Apply: One or more vacancies may be filled through this announcement. This announcement is open to all U.S. citizens. Supervisory General Attorney, GS-905-14 http://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/408094000 Department: Department Of Education Agency: Office for Civil Rights Number of Job Opportunities & Location(s): 1 vacancy - Boston, Massachusetts Salary: $107,826.00 to $140,174.00 / Per Year Series and Grade: GS-0905-14 Open Period: Thursday, June 25, 2015 to Thursday, July 9, 2015 Position Information: Permanent - Full-Time Who May Apply: One or more vacancies may be filled through this announcement. This announcement is open to all U.S. citizens. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Jun 29 13:29:46 2015 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 07:29:46 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Penny Wars and NABL Message-ID: <015801d0b26f$aaf855e0$00e901a0$@labarrelaw.com> The below message comes from Derek Manners who is a rising 3L at Harvard and a member of our lawyers division. He is also a leader in our national student division. We have agreed to participate in a fundraiser for the National Association of Blind Students. Derek describes it below and I urge all members of NABL attending convention to participate very actively in this fun, fundraiser. If we win the competition, it will not only help the students but also bring some cash to our division. As you will see, the parents and merchants are already talking trash about us. We cannot let the good name of lawyers be sullied in such a manner. Cheers, Scott PENNY WARS Scott, thank you so much for accepting our invitation on behalf of the Lawyers Division of the National Federation of the Blind to participate in the National Association of Blind Student's first Penny Wars fundraiser! Per our conversation, below you will find a thorough explanation of how it will work, the point system, and other relevant info. Feel free to reach out to me with any additional questions. Also, you should let the lawyers know Kevin Worley, Nicky, and the Parents Division are already trash talking about how they are going to wipe the floor with us. Therefore, right when I get to Orlando, I'll be putting 10 dollars in our bucket and 5 dollars in pennies in the parents and merchants buckets. Let's make them eat their words! >From Monday, July 6-Thursday, July 9, the National Association of Blind Students will track the progress of national divisions, as they compete for the most change in their bucket! How it works: Buckets will be set up on the NABS Exhibit Hall table with both Braille and print labels showing which division corresponds to what bucket. While the Hall is open, the NABS board will be collecting donations for all divisions. You can donate to your own division, but remember to put pennies in the buckets of those divisions that you want to beat. Federationists will be able to hold the buckets, to see how much they weigh and we will try to do updates throughout the convention depending on logistics. The final tally will be done Friday and the winning division will be announced. Additionally, each division can voluntarily collect donations during their division meetings, and bring those donations to the NABS table the following day. The Point System: Pennies = -5 points (do not put these coins in your division bucket, instead throw the pennies in your biggest competitor's bucket) Nickel = 5 points Dime = 10 points Quarter = 25 points $1: 100 points $5 = 500 points, . and so on Who Wins: The division with the most amount of points at the end of the day Thursday will take home 50% of all profits raised by all divisions, while the National Association of Blind Students will claim the other half. We are so glad that the lawyers will be participating, so do not hesitate to start getting the division excited! Best regards Derek Manners= From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Jun 29 13:42:17 2015 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 07:42:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Penny Wars and NABL Message-ID: <016401d0b271$6a8abc30$3fa03490$@labarrelaw.com> Hey folks, I also asked Derek if it was legal to contribute paper bills to our bucket, and the answer is absolutely ys. So, let's bring lots of paper to put in the NABL bucket and a bunch of noisy pennies to place in those other divisions' buckets who are trying to "wipe the floor" with us. Let's go NABL! From: Scott C. LaBarre [mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com] Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 7:30 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Penny Wars and NABL The below message comes from Derek Manners who is a rising 3L at Harvard and a member of our lawyers division. He is also a leader in our national student division. We have agreed to participate in a fundraiser for the National Association of Blind Students. Derek describes it below and I urge all members of NABL attending convention to participate very actively in this fun, fundraiser. If we win the competition, it will not only help the students but also bring some cash to our division. As you will see, the parents and merchants are already talking trash about us. We cannot let the good name of lawyers be sullied in such a manner. Cheers, Scott PENNY WARS Scott, thank you so much for accepting our invitation on behalf of the Lawyers Division of the National Federation of the Blind to participate in the National Association of Blind Student's first Penny Wars fundraiser! Per our conversation, below you will find a thorough explanation of how it will work, the point system, and other relevant info. Feel free to reach out to me with any additional questions. Also, you should let the lawyers know Kevin Worley, Nicky, and the Parents Division are already trash talking about how they are going to wipe the floor with us. Therefore, right when I get to Orlando, I'll be putting 10 dollars in our bucket and 5 dollars in pennies in the parents and merchants buckets. Let's make them eat their words! >From Monday, July 6-Thursday, July 9, the National Association of Blind Students will track the progress of national divisions, as they compete for the most change in their bucket! How it works: Buckets will be set up on the NABS Exhibit Hall table with both Braille and print labels showing which division corresponds to what bucket. While the Hall is open, the NABS board will be collecting donations for all divisions. You can donate to your own division, but remember to put pennies in the buckets of those divisions that you want to beat. Federationists will be able to hold the buckets, to see how much they weigh and we will try to do updates throughout the convention depending on logistics. The final tally will be done Friday and the winning division will be announced. Additionally, each division can voluntarily collect donations during their division meetings, and bring those donations to the NABS table the following day. The Point System: Pennies = -5 points (do not put these coins in your division bucket, instead throw the pennies in your biggest competitor's bucket) Nickel = 5 points Dime = 10 points Quarter = 25 points $1: 100 points $5 = 500 points, . and so on Who Wins: The division with the most amount of points at the end of the day Thursday will take home 50% of all profits raised by all divisions, while the National Association of Blind Students will claim the other half. We are so glad that the lawyers will be participating, so do not hesitate to start getting the division excited! Best regards Derek Manners=