[blindlaw] Questions about Reading Large Documents

Mon Aug 29 01:11:35 UTC 2016

All,

I would also love suggestions on altering OCR settings for various
results. i am particularly interested in being able to convert a PDF
to a Word document in such a way that Word will recognize when
footnotes are footnotes. i have had some success with this, but it
seems to work on documents at random and I'm not sure how to better
ensure it keeps happening.

On 8/27/16, Sy Hoekstra via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I actually don't know how to do it outside of Kurzweil 1000. That program
> has a lot of settings you can fiddle with when scanning a difficult
> document. I have never used Adobi Pro. Sorry!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melissa Allman [mailto:mrallman116 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 1:14 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Sybren Hoekstra <sy.hoekstra at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Questions about Reading Large Documents
>
> I've been following this discussion and would really appreciate some tips
> on
> how to configure the settings of my OCR engine to get the best results.  I
> use Adobe Pro. Also, I like the suggestion of making friends with
> paralegals
> but we actually don't have any in the legal clinic where I work so I rely
> on
> student volunteers for accommodations and I might be able to cut down on my
> need for them if OCR conversions were cleaner more often. Many times I rely
> on these volunteers to clean up the documents so they are more accurate.
> Don't get me started on the documents with handwriting on  them ... I know
> there's not much to be done about that. Anyway, tips on optimizing the
> accuracy of the Adobe Pro OCR engine would be greatly appreciated.
>  Thanks.
>
> Melissa
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 26, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Sybren Hoekstra via BlindLaw
> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I agree. Much more effective to use the jaws find command. Ditto for
> searching ms word docs.
>>
>> It sounds like you are working with an entire record of a case or many
> exchanges between parties condensed into one massive pdf. That sucks. I
> have
> had to deal with records from administrative agencies presented that way.
> The only way i have used to get around them efficiently is to use bookmarks
> after doing ocr conversion. But that is in kurzweil 1000. I think you can
> create bookmarks in ms word as well.
>>
>> If you are at a firm though where you dont yet have the clout to
>> influence
> how documents are sent by opposing counsel, the only real answer for some
> problems will be sighted assistance. Make friends with paralegals. Thats my
> advice.  Also, make sure to learn as much as possible about how you can
> alter the settings of your ocr engine to get better results.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 26, 2016, at 11:55, Karla Gilbride via BlindLaw
> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Rahul,
>>>
>>> When I work with pdfs, I use the JAWS find command ((insert+control+f)
> and
>>> it works much better than the regular find command in Adobe. Hope this
>>> helps.
>>>
>>> Karla
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul
> Bajaj
>>> via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 9:13 AM
>>> To: Gregory Chang Patti
>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj; Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Questions about Reading Large Documents
>>>
>>> Hi Patti,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your helpful response.
>>> I am assuming that by accessible copies you mean accessible PDFs. Are
>>> you
>>> able to work with large PDF documents without much difficulty?
>>> More specifically, are you able to use the find command in Adobe Reader
> in
>>> an efficient fashion, considering that it does not work well with JAWS?
>>> Further, it is also very difficult to copy text from a PDF document, so
> that
>>> is why I generally prefer using Word documents.
>>> Finally, have you configured Adobe Reader to read the entire document in
> a
>>> consolidated fashion, or do you instead use the single-page view option?
>>> Your responses to these 3 questions will be incredibly useful. Thank
>>> you.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Rahul
>>>
>>>> On 26/08/2016, Gregory Chang Patti <pattischang at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I have sometimes asked opposing counsel to send me an accessible copy.
>>>>
>>>> I matter of factly explain the conversion issues and let them know
>>>> that I can respond more quickly if they can accommodate me.  The
>>>> majority have had no problem doing so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the National
>>>> Federation of the Blind.  Live the Life You Want."
>>>>
>>>> Patti Gregory Chang
>>>> National Federation of the Blind of Illinois, Treasurer NFB
>>>> Scholarship Committee Chair pattischang at gmail.com NFB of IL:
>>>> www.nfbofillinois.org
>>>> NFB: www.nfb.org
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 26, 2016, at 12:42 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I hope this message finds you well.
>>>> I wanted to solicit suggestions from you all about the possible
>>>> strategies that I may be able to adopt to deal with the following
>>>> challenges:
>>>> A. Almost all documents that I am required to read in order to draft
>>>> any written submission in an ongoing litigation are in the form of
>>>> inaccessible PDFs. While FineReader helps me convert these documents
>>>> into word and helps make them partially accessible, the quality of the
>>>> output is still not up to the mark. More specifically, I face the
>>>> following 2 problems:
>>>> 1. Tables in the original PDF get disintegrated into several parts
>>>> which makes it difficult to make sense of the information that they
>>>> contain; 2. Since the devil is always in the detail, it is critical to
>>>> access specific bits of information such as the date on which a
>>>> certain event happened, the para number of the submission of the other
>>>> party, the precise figures that have been set forth, etc. Even though
>>>> I use Fine Reader 11 and have tried using applications like
>>>> RoboBraille to obtain better conversion results, the final Word
>>>> Document often does not convey such information accurately. For
>>>> instance, if I have to draft a para-wise reply to the other party's
>>>> written submission, I need to know the precise para number in which
>>>> they have set forth a specific assertion. I am unable to do so at this
>>>> juncture.
>>>> B. In a large word document, how can I quickly jump to a certain
>>>> document that forms the subject matter of the legal dispute? For
>>>> instance, if I have to quickly refer to a letter that one party may
>>>> have sent to the other, how can I get to that in an expeditious
>>>> fashion? The table of contents delineates the page numbers on which
>>>> various documents can be found, but unlike a PDF, one cannot jump to a
>>>> certain page number in a Word document, as far as I know. Further, the
>>>> sequence of the page numbers also gets disrupted by the conversion
>>>> process from PDF to Word.
>>>>
>>>> Would be grateful if anyone could share possible ideas for grappling
>>>> with these challenges.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Rahul
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
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