From jsteelelouchart at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 02:08:53 2016 From: jsteelelouchart at gmail.com (J Steele-Louchart) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:08:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School Message-ID: Hi, all, I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the various application requirements in advance. Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first place? Warmth, J -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One From jsteelelouchart at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 02:12:26 2016 From: jsteelelouchart at gmail.com (J Steele-Louchart) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:12:26 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games Message-ID: Hi, all, I'm taking my LSAT in a few days and I wanted to ask other totally-blind people how you diagram logic games. Although my scores on the logical reasoning and reading comprehension sections are where I want them, my scores on logic games fall a little short. I struggle with trying to organize the various correct sequences of the variables in a list in a word document. What have others done to keep track of multiple sequences for restricted and modification questions? Warmth, J -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Thu Dec 1 02:31:27 2016 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (mnowicki4 at icloud.com) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 20:31:27 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0OHH00D72J0SS900@st11p00im-asmtp001.me.com> Hi J, I used an Excel spreadsheet to diagram logic games. I know that other blind test takers used a variety of methods ranging from Excel to tactile objects. There have been several informative discussions on this topic on this mailing list, so I strongly recommend you search the archives. Good luck in the law school admission process. Best, Michal Nowicki Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:14 PM To: blindlaw Cc: J Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games Hi, all, I'm taking my LSAT in a few days and I wanted to ask other totally-blind people how you diagram logic games. Although my scores on the logical reasoning and reading comprehension sections are where I want them, my scores on logic games fall a little short. I struggle with trying to organize the various correct sequences of the variables in a list in a word document. What have others done to keep track of multiple sequences for restricted and modification questions? Warmth, J -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From legal at s.ai Thu Dec 1 02:34:58 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:34:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Law school application timing (was: Blindness and Choosing A School) Message-ID: A bit off from what you asked, so splitting thread topic: why June? FWIW, last year I applied to law schools around February to May (depending on the school's stated deadlines). The result: I got accepted by one school (without aid), waitlisted by 8. (All high-ranking.) So I'm applying again this year. I talked with admissions staff etc afterward, and found out that virtually all of that was specifically because I applied "late", i.e. on deadline, rather than by November / December. In short, the deadline is a lie. Virtually all of the placements are decided by January / February, especially so if you need financial aid. So if you're intending to get in for fall 2017, I suggest you don't repeat my mistake. Apply *now*. - Sai On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi, all, > > I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm > starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the > various application requirements in advance. > > Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our > decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to > have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' > libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward > accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first > place? > > Warmth, > J > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From legal at s.ai Thu Dec 1 02:38:51 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:38:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm interested in the same questions as well, since the responses I've gotten from schools about accommodations has been a generic "of course we'll obey the ADA", rather than "these are kinds of accommodations we could offer you". That makes me concerned about what that'll turn out to be in actuality, especially at highly ranked schools that might have a culture of "if you're smart or got good grades / test scores before, then you must not be disabled enough to need accommodations". This is especially a concern when my disabilities are very rare and poorly diagnosed, so of course must not exist. (I wonder how many fully sighted people have worn through multiple high-mileage cane tips before… ) So, I can't answer what you actually asked, but am definitely interested in reading responses, as I'm in a similar position. - Sai On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi, all, > > I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm > starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the > various application requirements in advance. > > Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our > decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to > have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' > libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward > accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first > place? > > Warmth, > J > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From ttomasi at driowa.org Thu Dec 1 14:34:50 2016 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 14:34:50 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I too used Microsoft Excel to diagram the games, though you won't be able to get that accommodation approved before the December administration of the exam. If you happen to take it again for whatever reason, I recommend the use of Excel for diagramming the logic games. I just devised a system of symbols denoting the status of each variable. Using excel was helpful because I could copy the basic setup for all the questions relating to that game. Tai Tomasi, J.D. Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org www.driowa.org Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:12 PM To: blindlaw Cc: J Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games Hi, all, I'm taking my LSAT in a few days and I wanted to ask other totally-blind people how you diagram logic games. Although my scores on the logical reasoning and reading comprehension sections are where I want them, my scores on logic games fall a little short. I struggle with trying to organize the various correct sequences of the variables in a list in a word document. What have others done to keep track of multiple sequences for restricted and modification questions? Warmth, J -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From ttomasi at driowa.org Thu Dec 1 14:41:25 2016 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 14:41:25 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would encourage you to apply well before June, as many classes have been completely filled by that date. Many schools have rolling admissions. While it helps to know other blind students who have attended a given school, I would base my decision on the academic reputation of the school and its efforts to welcome a diverse student body. The quality of a disability services office doesn't necessarily indicate whether a law school will be accommodating to a blind student. My school had many website accessibility issues affecting my ability to access required online course materials. I had to educate the law school, university IT department, and student disability services office regarding these issues. I took charge of ensuring many of my accommodations, including finding my own readers. The law school took care of most accommodations and did not work much with the disability services office, except in procurement of textbooks. Best of luck, and feel free to contact me off list. Tai Tomasi, J.D. Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org www.driowa.org Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:09 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: J Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School Hi, all, I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the various application requirements in advance. Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first place? Warmth, J -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From legal at s.ai Thu Dec 1 15:12:56 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 10:12:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > The law school took care of most accommodations and did not work much with the disability services office, Could you elaborate on that? Who did the coordination for your accommodations, if not the disability office? - Sai On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw wrote: > I would encourage you to apply well before June, as many classes have been completely filled by that date. Many schools have rolling admissions. While it helps to know other blind students who have attended a given school, I would base my decision on the academic reputation of the school and its efforts to welcome a diverse student body. The quality of a disability services office doesn't necessarily indicate whether a law school will be accommodating to a blind student. My school had many website accessibility issues affecting my ability to access required online course materials. I had to educate the law school, university IT department, and student disability services office regarding these issues. I took charge of ensuring many of my accommodations, including finding my own readers. The law school took care of most accommodations and did not work much with the disability services office, except in procurement of textbooks. Best of luck, and feel free to contact me off list. > > > Tai Tomasi, J.D. > Staff Attorney > > > > 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 > Des Moines, Iowa 50309 > Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 > FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 > E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org > www.driowa.org > > Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:09 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: J Steele-Louchart > Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School > > Hi, all, > > I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the various application requirements in advance. > > Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' > libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first place? > > Warmth, > J > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From jsteelelouchart at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 15:47:20 2016 From: jsteelelouchart at gmail.com (J Steele-Louchart) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 10:47:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tai, Thank you. To clarify, I'm not starting law school until the Fall of 2018, so I can't begin applying until June of 2017. I'm referencing the beginning of the application period rather than the end. J On 12/1/16, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> The law school took care of most accommodations and did not work much with >> the disability services office, > > Could you elaborate on that? Who did the coordination for your > accommodations, if not the disability office? > > - Sai > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw > wrote: >> I would encourage you to apply well before June, as many classes have been >> completely filled by that date. Many schools have rolling admissions. >> While it helps to know other blind students who have attended a given >> school, I would base my decision on the academic reputation of the school >> and its efforts to welcome a diverse student body. The quality of a >> disability services office doesn't necessarily indicate whether a law >> school will be accommodating to a blind student. My school had many >> website accessibility issues affecting my ability to access required >> online course materials. I had to educate the law school, university IT >> department, and student disability services office regarding these issues. >> I took charge of ensuring many of my accommodations, including finding my >> own readers. The law school took care of most accommodations and did not >> work much with the disability services office, except in procurement of >> textbooks. Best of luck, and feel free to contact me off list. >> >> >> Tai Tomasi, J.D. >> Staff Attorney >> >> >> >> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 >> Des Moines, Iowa 50309 >> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 >> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 >> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org >> www.driowa.org >> >> Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans >> with disabilities >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE >> >> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of >> Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named >> recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client >> communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an >> intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you >> are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments >> or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received >> this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, >> any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and >> destroy any printouts. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J >> Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:09 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: J Steele-Louchart >> Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School >> >> Hi, all, >> >> I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm starting >> to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the various >> application requirements in advance. >> >> Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our >> decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to have a >> dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' >> libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward >> accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first >> place? >> >> Warmth, >> J >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com > -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One From jmccarthy at mdtap.org Thu Dec 1 15:47:12 2016 From: jmccarthy at mdtap.org (Jim McCarthy) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 10:47:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01f701d24bea$2ed16130$8c742390$@mdtap.org> Sai, It has been a long time since I was in law school and I would say that Tai's thoughts on this, along with others, are much more current. Frequently, law schools are affiliated with universities, but they very much manage their own issues not using the university structure for doing so. The law school I attended was affiliated with a college but I never worked with the college for any accommodation issue. In my case, it was the Office of the Dean of Student Life, I think and part of that including disability accommodations and minority affairs. I think that Disabled Student Services offices serve a function for the school or law school or whatever academic institution one swishes to consider of assuring uniformity of treatment -- if you are blind, you get these accommodations because these are what we give blind people. The ADA is not supposed to be a "one size fits all," but life is easier for institutions if it is. If making a law school choice today, one of the things I would want to do is determine how those accommodations would be provided and try to understand the part my actual needs as articulated by me, would play in that process. We had exams where we could take many of them over a two week final exam period. We would come in during blocks assigned during that time, accommodations like extra time were know, and you would take the test. Stamped out and stamped in. My guess is that the undergrad would not have understood this so it was better to work with the law school about any accommodations issues that might be necessary. Our tests were done by some in blue books; some including mine on a computer. Each of us had a code though for anonymity. I sought permission to have a proctor and for her to do a format review in order that my exams to be turned it did not have visual give aways that broke my anonymity. Those I asked for this accommodation understood the school process, the goal of having that process and so forth; they were close enough to the process to make a meaningful decision that people on a campus a half mile away would not have been. It is my personal view that disability support probably would not be the deal breaker for me. If one school has a better reputation, or has focus areas that interest me, or professors from whom I would like to learn the law, in other words, nondisability factors, these would be most important. If I felt like those doing accommodations and supports were not going to be at all collaborative with me though, maybe that would take them off the list of schools to consider. Best Jim -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sai via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:13 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sai Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School > The law school took care of most accommodations and did not work much > with the disability services office, Could you elaborate on that? Who did the coordination for your accommodations, if not the disability office? - Sai On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw wrote: > I would encourage you to apply well before June, as many classes have been completely filled by that date. Many schools have rolling admissions. While it helps to know other blind students who have attended a given school, I would base my decision on the academic reputation of the school and its efforts to welcome a diverse student body. The quality of a disability services office doesn't necessarily indicate whether a law school will be accommodating to a blind student. My school had many website accessibility issues affecting my ability to access required online course materials. I had to educate the law school, university IT department, and student disability services office regarding these issues. I took charge of ensuring many of my accommodations, including finding my own readers. The law school took care of most accommodations and did not work much with the disability services office, except in procurement of textbooks. Best of luck, and feel free to contact me off list. > > > Tai Tomasi, J.D. > Staff Attorney > > > > 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 > Des Moines, Iowa 50309 > Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 > FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 > E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org > www.driowa.org > > Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of > Iowans with disabilities > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J > Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:09 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: J Steele-Louchart > Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School > > Hi, all, > > I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the various application requirements in advance. > > Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' > libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first place? > > Warmth, > J > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa > .org > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org From awildheir at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 17:53:41 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 12:53:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would highly recommend Syracuse. I wish I had applied there. My law school has not been very accommodating nor has the atmosphere been welcoming of a blind student. Maybe it is just too small. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: > > I'm interested in the same questions as well, since the responses I've > gotten from schools about accommodations has been a generic "of course > we'll obey the ADA", rather than "these are kinds of accommodations we > could offer you". > > That makes me concerned about what that'll turn out to be in > actuality, especially at highly ranked schools that might have a > culture of "if you're smart or got good grades / test scores before, > then you must not be disabled enough to need accommodations". > > This is especially a concern when my disabilities are very rare and > poorly diagnosed, so of course must not exist. (I wonder how many > fully sighted people have worn through multiple high-mileage cane tips > before… ) > > So, I can't answer what you actually asked, but am definitely > interested in reading responses, as I'm in a similar position. > > - Sai > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > wrote: >> Hi, all, >> >> I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm >> starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the >> various application requirements in advance. >> >> Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our >> decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to >> have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' >> libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward >> accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first >> place? >> >> Warmth, >> J >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From gailman at att.net Thu Dec 1 18:03:44 2016 From: gailman at att.net (Gail Mancewicz) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 18:03:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <145076799.4010664.1480615425014@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All;I  am a visually impaired student at Western Michigan University Thomas M Cooley Law School Grand Rapids campus and I have found them to be very accommodating. Before I arrived there had been a totally blind student who had just graduated . You might want to check them out .  Gail Mancewicz 266 N Main St. Rockford, MI 49341 H: (616)863-9545 C: (616)425-1813 On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: I would highly recommend Syracuse. I wish I had applied there. My law school has not been very accommodating nor has the atmosphere been welcoming of a blind student. Maybe it is just too small. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: > > I'm interested in the same questions as well, since the responses I've > gotten from schools about accommodations has been a generic "of course > we'll obey the ADA", rather than "these are kinds of accommodations we > could offer you". > > That makes me concerned about what that'll turn out to be in > actuality, especially at highly ranked schools that might have a > culture of "if you're smart or got good grades / test scores before, > then you must not be disabled enough to need accommodations". > > This is especially a concern when my disabilities are very rare and > poorly diagnosed, so of course must not exist. (I wonder how many > fully sighted people have worn through multiple high-mileage cane tips > before… ) > > So, I can't answer what you actually asked, but am definitely > interested in reading responses, as I'm in a similar position. > > - Sai > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > wrote: >> Hi, all, >> >> I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm >> starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the >> various application requirements in advance. >> >> Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our >> decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to >> have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' >> libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward >> accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first >> place? >> >> Warmth, >> J >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gailman%40att.net From gailman at att.net Thu Dec 1 18:03:44 2016 From: gailman at att.net (Gail Mancewicz) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 18:03:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <145076799.4010664.1480615425014@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All;I  am a visually impaired student at Western Michigan University Thomas M Cooley Law School Grand Rapids campus and I have found them to be very accommodating. Before I arrived there had been a totally blind student who had just graduated . You might want to check them out .  Gail Mancewicz 266 N Main St. Rockford, MI 49341 H: (616)863-9545 C: (616)425-1813 On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: I would highly recommend Syracuse. I wish I had applied there. My law school has not been very accommodating nor has the atmosphere been welcoming of a blind student. Maybe it is just too small. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: > > I'm interested in the same questions as well, since the responses I've > gotten from schools about accommodations has been a generic "of course > we'll obey the ADA", rather than "these are kinds of accommodations we > could offer you". > > That makes me concerned about what that'll turn out to be in > actuality, especially at highly ranked schools that might have a > culture of "if you're smart or got good grades / test scores before, > then you must not be disabled enough to need accommodations". > > This is especially a concern when my disabilities are very rare and > poorly diagnosed, so of course must not exist. (I wonder how many > fully sighted people have worn through multiple high-mileage cane tips > before… ) > > So, I can't answer what you actually asked, but am definitely > interested in reading responses, as I'm in a similar position. > > - Sai > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > wrote: >> Hi, all, >> >> I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm >> starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the >> various application requirements in advance. >> >> Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our >> decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to >> have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' >> libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward >> accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first >> place? >> >> Warmth, >> J >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gailman%40att.net From jtfetter at yahoo.com Thu Dec 1 18:19:22 2016 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 13:19:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: <145076799.4010664.1480615425014@mail.yahoo.com> References: <145076799.4010664.1480615425014@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At the end of the day, you should attend the best law school for your professional goals, which, above all, should be getting an actual job in your preferred legal market. For me, that happened to be Ohio State, since I plan to practice in Ohio; price was also a factor. However, Ohio State also happens to be very accommodating, and I haven't gotten any grief or pushback on a single request for accommodations. Needless to say, this has made my life significantly easier and less stressful than it might otherwise have been. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Gail Mancewicz via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi All;I am a visually impaired student at Western Michigan University Thomas M Cooley Law School Grand Rapids campus and I have found them to be very accommodating. Before I arrived there had been a totally blind student who had just graduated . You might want to check them out . > > > Gail Mancewicz > 266 N Main St. > Rockford, MI 49341 > H: (616)863-9545 > C: (616)425-1813 > > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: I would highly recommend Syracuse. I wish I had applied there. My law school has not been very accommodating nor has the atmosphere been welcoming of a blind student. Maybe it is just too small. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 30, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I'm interested in the same questions as well, since the responses I've >> gotten from schools about accommodations has been a generic "of course >> we'll obey the ADA", rather than "these are kinds of accommodations we >> could offer you". >> >> That makes me concerned about what that'll turn out to be in >> actuality, especially at highly ranked schools that might have a >> culture of "if you're smart or got good grades / test scores before, >> then you must not be disabled enough to need accommodations". >> >> This is especially a concern when my disabilities are very rare and >> poorly diagnosed, so of course must not exist. (I wonder how many >> fully sighted people have worn through multiple high-mileage cane tips >> before… ) >> >> So, I can't answer what you actually asked, but am definitely >> interested in reading responses, as I'm in a similar position. >> >> - Sai >> >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> Hi, all, >>> >>> I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm >>> starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the >>> various application requirements in advance. >>> >>> Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our >>> decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to >>> have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' >>> libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward >>> accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the first >>> place? >>> >>> Warmth, >>> J >>> >>> >>> -- >>> J Steele-Louchart >>> >>> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gailman%40att.net > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From kyra.sweeney94 at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 18:28:08 2016 From: kyra.sweeney94 at gmail.com (Kyra Sweeney) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 11:28:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I also find Excel really helpful for diagramming the games, but so far have not been able to get LSAC to grant it as an accommodation. Can anyone share their experiences requesting the use of Excel? Was it necessary to appeal for it? Kyra Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw wrote: > > I too used Microsoft Excel to diagram the games, though you won't be able to get that accommodation approved before the December administration of the exam. If you happen to take it again for whatever reason, I recommend the use of Excel for diagramming the logic games. I just devised a system of symbols denoting the status of each variable. Using excel was helpful because I could copy the basic setup for all the questions relating to that game. > > Tai Tomasi, J.D. > Staff Attorney > > > > 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 > Des Moines, Iowa 50309 > Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 > FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 > E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org > www.driowa.org > > Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:12 PM > To: blindlaw > Cc: J Steele-Louchart > Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games > > Hi, all, > > I'm taking my LSAT in a few days and I wanted to ask other totally-blind people how you diagram logic games. Although my scores on the logical reasoning and reading comprehension sections are where I want them, my scores on logic games fall a little short. I struggle with trying to organize the various correct sequences of the variables in a list in a word document. What have others done to keep track of multiple sequences for restricted and modification questions? > > Warmth, > J > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kyra.sweeney94%40gmail.com From ttomasi at driowa.org Thu Dec 1 18:29:56 2016 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 18:29:56 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did have to appeal for it, submitting a detailed justification letter explaining the need. Tai Tomasi, J.D. Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org www.driowa.org Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kyra Sweeney via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 12:28 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Kyra Sweeney Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games I also find Excel really helpful for diagramming the games, but so far have not been able to get LSAC to grant it as an accommodation. Can anyone share their experiences requesting the use of Excel? Was it necessary to appeal for it? Kyra Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw wrote: > > I too used Microsoft Excel to diagram the games, though you won't be able to get that accommodation approved before the December administration of the exam. If you happen to take it again for whatever reason, I recommend the use of Excel for diagramming the logic games. I just devised a system of symbols denoting the status of each variable. Using excel was helpful because I could copy the basic setup for all the questions relating to that game. > > Tai Tomasi, J.D. > Staff Attorney > > > > 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 > Des Moines, Iowa 50309 > Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 > FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 > E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org > www.driowa.org > > Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:12 PM > To: blindlaw > Cc: J Steele-Louchart > Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games > > Hi, all, > > I'm taking my LSAT in a few days and I wanted to ask other totally-blind people how you diagram logic games. Although my scores on the logical reasoning and reading comprehension sections are where I want them, my scores on logic games fall a little short. I struggle with trying to organize the various correct sequences of the variables in a list in a word document. What have others done to keep track of multiple sequences for restricted and modification questions? > > Warmth, > J > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kyra.sweeney94%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From lmendez716 at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 19:29:19 2016 From: lmendez716 at gmail.com (Luis Mendez) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 14:29:19 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001201d24c09$36f41c30$a4dc5490$@gmail.com> Good afternoon Aimee and other list members: Just curious, what is it about Syracuse that in your opinion makes it receptive to blind students. By way of full disclosure, I was the first blind student at the Syracuse law school. That was back in the dinosaur days, before computers and electronic research. On the whole the school did work with me to accommodate my needs as much as possible under the circumstances. Luis -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 12:54 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School I would highly recommend Syracuse. I wish I had applied there. My law school has not been very accommodating nor has the atmosphere been welcoming of a blind student. Maybe it is just too small. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: > > I'm interested in the same questions as well, since the responses I've > gotten from schools about accommodations has been a generic "of course > we'll obey the ADA", rather than "these are kinds of accommodations we > could offer you". > > That makes me concerned about what that'll turn out to be in > actuality, especially at highly ranked schools that might have a > culture of "if you're smart or got good grades / test scores before, > then you must not be disabled enough to need accommodations". > > This is especially a concern when my disabilities are very rare and > poorly diagnosed, so of course must not exist. (I wonder how many > fully sighted people have worn through multiple high-mileage cane tips > before… ) > > So, I can't answer what you actually asked, but am definitely > interested in reading responses, as I'm in a similar position. > > - Sai > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > wrote: >> Hi, all, >> >> I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm >> starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the >> various application requirements in advance. >> >> Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our >> decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to >> have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' >> libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward >> accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the >> first place? >> >> Warmth, >> J >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai > l.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmendez716%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 20:20:57 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 15:20:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Dragon Pro Message-ID: <443FFFA0-BE6D-443D-AC8C-22BB472DF6B6@gmail.com> Good afternoon everyone, There has been some discussion on the list previously regarding the use of Dragon dictate and jaws. Is it necessary to use a program to bridge the two so that they work well with each other if you will be using headphones with a microphone? I have been using Microsoft built in dictation with headphones that have a microphone. It works well except for navigating around in The little dictation dashboard. The dictation it's self is fairly accurate and I did not do any training of the software to recognize my speech pattern more effectively. However, the difficulty in navigating the dashboard of the dictation itself is what I have the most trouble with and therefore brings me to this question I ask of you. Aimee Sent from my iPhone From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Thu Dec 1 23:09:05 2016 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (mnowicki4 at icloud.com) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 17:09:05 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0OHJ0088Y4BH6520@st11p00im-asmtp001.me.com> I did not have to appeal, and, quite strangely, this was before things started to change for the better. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 12:35 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Tai Tomasi Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games I did have to appeal for it, submitting a detailed justification letter explaining the need. Tai Tomasi, J.D. Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org www.driowa.org Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kyra Sweeney via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 12:28 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Kyra Sweeney Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games I also find Excel really helpful for diagramming the games, but so far have not been able to get LSAC to grant it as an accommodation. Can anyone share their experiences requesting the use of Excel? Was it necessary to appeal for it? Kyra Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw wrote: > > I too used Microsoft Excel to diagram the games, though you won't be able to get that accommodation approved before the December administration of the exam. If you happen to take it again for whatever reason, I recommend the use of Excel for diagramming the logic games. I just devised a system of symbols denoting the status of each variable. Using excel was helpful because I could copy the basic setup for all the questions relating to that game. > > Tai Tomasi, J.D. > Staff Attorney > > > > 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 > Des Moines, Iowa 50309 > Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 > FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 > E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org > www.driowa.org > > Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:12 PM > To: blindlaw > Cc: J Steele-Louchart > Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games > > Hi, all, > > I'm taking my LSAT in a few days and I wanted to ask other totally-blind people how you diagram logic games. Although my scores on the logical reasoning and reading comprehension sections are where I want them, my scores on logic games fall a little short. I struggle with trying to organize the various correct sequences of the variables in a list in a word document. What have others done to keep track of multiple sequences for restricted and modification questions? > > Warmth, > J > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kyra.sweeney94%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Fri Dec 2 00:09:18 2016 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 19:09:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games In-Reply-To: <0OHJ0088Y4BH6520@st11p00im-asmtp001.me.com> References: <0OHJ0088Y4BH6520@st11p00im-asmtp001.me.com> Message-ID: I didn't get any accommodations for that section, so had to do everything in my head. On 12/1/16, Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw wrote: > I did not have to appeal, and, quite strangely, this was before things > started to change for the better. > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 12:35 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Tai Tomasi > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games > > I did have to appeal for it, submitting a detailed justification letter > explaining the need. > > Tai Tomasi, J.D. > Staff Attorney > > > > 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 > Des Moines, Iowa 50309 > Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 > FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 > E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org > www.driowa.org > > Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans > with disabilities > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of > Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named > recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client > communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an > intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are > prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from > making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this > e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any > attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any > printouts. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kyra > Sweeney via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 12:28 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Kyra Sweeney > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games > > I also find Excel really helpful for diagramming the games, but so far have > not been able to get LSAC to grant it as an accommodation. Can anyone share > their experiences requesting the use of Excel? Was it necessary to appeal > for it? > Kyra > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 1, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> I too used Microsoft Excel to diagram the games, though you won't be able >> to get that accommodation approved before the December administration of >> the exam. If you happen to take it again for whatever reason, I recommend >> the use of Excel for diagramming the logic games. I just devised a system >> of symbols denoting the status of each variable. Using excel was helpful >> because I could copy the basic setup for all the questions relating to >> that game. >> >> Tai Tomasi, J.D. >> Staff Attorney >> >> >> >> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 >> Des Moines, Iowa 50309 >> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 >> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 >> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org >> www.driowa.org >> >> Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans >> with disabilities >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE >> >> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of >> Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named >> recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client >> communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an >> intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you >> are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments >> or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received >> this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, >> any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and >> destroy any printouts. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J >> Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:12 PM >> To: blindlaw >> Cc: J Steele-Louchart >> Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games >> >> Hi, all, >> >> I'm taking my LSAT in a few days and I wanted to ask other totally-blind >> people how you diagram logic games. Although my scores on the logical >> reasoning and reading comprehension sections are where I want them, my >> scores on logic games fall a little short. I struggle with trying to >> organize the various correct sequences of the variables in a list in a >> word document. What have others done to keep track of multiple sequences >> for restricted and modification questions? >> >> Warmth, >> J >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kyra.sweeney94%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From legal at s.ai Fri Dec 2 02:39:10 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 21:39:10 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and test design issues (was: Diagraming Logic Games) Message-ID: Has anyone done a survey of blind LSAT test takers to determine whether blind people have a disproportionately low score on the logic games part of the test (vs the reading or logic sections)? I know that this was alleged in Binno v ABA, No. 11-12247 (E.D. MI. Sept. 30, 2012) (dismissed for lack of standing against ABA rather than LSAC), aff'd, 826 F. 3d 338 (6th Cir. 2016). Binno's case didn't make it to a decision on the merits because of standing, and other LSAC discrimination cases I've read don't seem to treat this particular part of the testing specially. This conversation raises what to me is a very interesting question: whether superficially neutral test design might have a systemically discriminatory effect for people with what should in theory be an unrelated disability. It's not plausible that blind people systemically are less analytical than sighted people. So, if blind people perform systemically worse on the analytical reasoning (logic games) portion of the LSAT — proportional to their scores on the rest of it — then it implies there's an issue with the test design itself. If there really is a broad issue for blind test takers where they perform more poorly on this section of the test than otherwise, that would make for an interesting class action case about the test design or accommodations particular to different types of questions. (Personally, the logic games section was the only part of the test where I got points off, but that was for reasons unrelated to my vision issues, so I don't think I can speak from personal experience about it.) - Sai On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 7:09 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > I didn't get any accommodations for that section, so had to do > everything in my head. > > On 12/1/16, Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw wrote: >> I did not have to appeal, and, quite strangely, this was before things >> started to change for the better. >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> From: Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 12:35 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Tai Tomasi >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games >> >> I did have to appeal for it, submitting a detailed justification letter >> explaining the need. >> >> Tai Tomasi, J.D. >> Staff Attorney >> >> >> >> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 >> Des Moines, Iowa 50309 >> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 >> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 >> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org >> www.driowa.org >> >> Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans >> with disabilities >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE >> >> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of >> Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named >> recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client >> communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an >> intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are >> prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from >> making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this >> e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any >> attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any >> printouts. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kyra >> Sweeney via BlindLaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 12:28 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Kyra Sweeney >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games >> >> I also find Excel really helpful for diagramming the games, but so far have >> not been able to get LSAC to grant it as an accommodation. Can anyone share >> their experiences requesting the use of Excel? Was it necessary to appeal >> for it? >> Kyra >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 1, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I too used Microsoft Excel to diagram the games, though you won't be able >>> to get that accommodation approved before the December administration of >>> the exam. If you happen to take it again for whatever reason, I recommend >>> the use of Excel for diagramming the logic games. I just devised a system >>> of symbols denoting the status of each variable. Using excel was helpful >>> because I could copy the basic setup for all the questions relating to >>> that game. >>> >>> Tai Tomasi, J.D. >>> Staff Attorney >>> >>> >>> >>> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 >>> Des Moines, Iowa 50309 >>> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 >>> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 >>> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org >>> www.driowa.org >>> >>> Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans >>> with disabilities >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE >>> >>> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of >>> Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named >>> recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client >>> communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an >>> intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you >>> are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments >>> or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received >>> this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, >>> any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and >>> destroy any printouts. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J >>> Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:12 PM >>> To: blindlaw >>> Cc: J Steele-Louchart >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games >>> >>> Hi, all, >>> >>> I'm taking my LSAT in a few days and I wanted to ask other totally-blind >>> people how you diagram logic games. Although my scores on the logical >>> reasoning and reading comprehension sections are where I want them, my >>> scores on logic games fall a little short. I struggle with trying to >>> organize the various correct sequences of the variables in a list in a >>> word document. What have others done to keep track of multiple sequences >>> for restricted and modification questions? >>> >>> Warmth, >>> J >>> >>> >>> -- >>> J Steele-Louchart >>> >>> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kyra.sweeney94%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From jsteelelouchart at gmail.com Fri Dec 2 03:53:35 2016 From: jsteelelouchart at gmail.com (J Steele-Louchart) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 22:53:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games In-Reply-To: References: <0OHJ0088Y4BH6520@st11p00im-asmtp001.me.com> Message-ID: Hi, all, I'm going to make several lists in a wordpad document and see what happens. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. Thank you all for your input. J On 12/1/16, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > I didn't get any accommodations for that section, so had to do > everything in my head. > > On 12/1/16, Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw wrote: >> I did not have to appeal, and, quite strangely, this was before things >> started to change for the better. >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> From: Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 12:35 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Tai Tomasi >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games >> >> I did have to appeal for it, submitting a detailed justification letter >> explaining the need. >> >> Tai Tomasi, J.D. >> Staff Attorney >> >> >> >> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 >> Des Moines, Iowa 50309 >> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 >> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 >> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org >> www.driowa.org >> >> Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans >> with disabilities >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE >> >> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of >> Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named >> recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client >> communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an >> intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you >> are >> prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or >> from >> making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this >> e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any >> attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy >> any >> printouts. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kyra >> Sweeney via BlindLaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 12:28 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Kyra Sweeney >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games >> >> I also find Excel really helpful for diagramming the games, but so far >> have >> not been able to get LSAC to grant it as an accommodation. Can anyone >> share >> their experiences requesting the use of Excel? Was it necessary to appeal >> for it? >> Kyra >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 1, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I too used Microsoft Excel to diagram the games, though you won't be able >>> to get that accommodation approved before the December administration of >>> the exam. If you happen to take it again for whatever reason, I recommend >>> the use of Excel for diagramming the logic games. I just devised a system >>> of symbols denoting the status of each variable. Using excel was helpful >>> because I could copy the basic setup for all the questions relating to >>> that game. >>> >>> Tai Tomasi, J.D. >>> Staff Attorney >>> >>> >>> >>> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 >>> Des Moines, Iowa 50309 >>> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 >>> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 >>> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org >>> www.driowa.org >>> >>> Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans >>> with disabilities >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE >>> >>> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of >>> Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named >>> recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client >>> communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an >>> intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you >>> are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments >>> or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received >>> this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the >>> e-mail, >>> any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and >>> destroy any printouts. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J >>> Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:12 PM >>> To: blindlaw >>> Cc: J Steele-Louchart >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Diagraming Logic Games >>> >>> Hi, all, >>> >>> I'm taking my LSAT in a few days and I wanted to ask other totally-blind >>> people how you diagram logic games. Although my scores on the logical >>> reasoning and reading comprehension sections are where I want them, my >>> scores on logic games fall a little short. I struggle with trying to >>> organize the various correct sequences of the variables in a list in a >>> word document. What have others done to keep track of multiple sequences >>> for restricted and modification questions? >>> >>> Warmth, >>> J >>> >>> >>> -- >>> J Steele-Louchart >>> >>> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kyra.sweeney94%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One From tim at timeldermusic.com Fri Dec 2 20:44:00 2016 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 12:44:00 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] =?utf-8?q?FOIA=2C_=C2=A7_508=2C_and_blind_representat?= =?utf-8?q?ion?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000901d24cdc$d08f6420$71ae2c60$@timeldermusic.com> Hello Sai, I may be able to help with this. Here is an article I wrote about the relevant intersection between 508 and FOIA. Lazar, J., Elder, T., and Stein, M. (2013). Understanding the Connection Between Human-Computer Interaction and Freedom of Information Laws. Interactions, 20(6), 60-63. -----Original Message----- From: Sai [mailto:legal at s.ai] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 1:31 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] FOIA, § 508, and blind representation Hello all. The NARA / OGIS FOIA advisory committee is currently discussing agencies' obligations under Rehab Act § 508 and their intersection with federal FOIA law. The underlying problem is that agencies have a process for processing documents, especially redacting, that takes an originally electronic document like a Word file, PDF, spreadsheet, etc, and turns it into a rasterized PDF. Some agencies will literally print a file and then scan it. Aside from some old documents that were actually made on typewriters or the like, the accessibility problem is entirely of the agencies' own making. It violates both the Rehab Act § 508 and FOIA (which mandates that agencies provide documents in the format requested, including originals). A structural issue is that there are, AFAICT, zero people on the committee with actual personal experience or expertise about the need for accessible documents. It is a classic example of people deciding things for an entire swath of disabled people without bothering to have any representation from that group in the decision. The October 25, 2016 meeting was about this. Transcript of the full meeting: Video of part 2 only: There are relevant comments by Alex Howard of Sunlight Foundation at p 115-120, time 1:13:50-1:20:30; and by Michael Ravnitzky at p 120-128, time 1:20:30-1:31:10. There are also comments at 1:12:30 by a member of the advisory committee suggesting that agencies should push the burden of making documents accessible onto the public and individual requesters. Personally, I find that rather offensive — especially coming from someone who's supposed to be on a working group about § 508 best practices, since it displays a lack of even "disability law 101" level understanding. So… if any of you are located in DC, would you be interested in participating in the OGIS meetings about FOIA and § 508 accessibility? Would you be interested in collaborating on written comments defending our right to information in accessible formats? Sincerely, Sai From legal at s.ai Fri Dec 2 22:08:27 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 17:08:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DOJ just issued new ADA regs re movie captioning and audio description Message-ID: Enjoy, Sai From ttomasi at driowa.org Fri Dec 2 22:13:34 2016 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 22:13:34 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] DOJ just issued new ADA regs re movie captioning and audio description In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is a decent breakdown of the rule: http://www.williamgoren.com/blog/2016/11/30/doj-department-of-justice-final-rule-movie-captioning-audio-description/ Ms. Tai Tomasi, J.D. Pronouns: she/her/hers Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org www.driowa.org Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sai via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:08 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sai Subject: [blindlaw] DOJ just issued new ADA regs re movie captioning and audio description Enjoy, Sai _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From legal at s.ai Sat Dec 3 00:04:31 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 19:04:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] =?utf-8?q?FOIA=2C_=C2=A7_508=2C_and_blind_representat?= =?utf-8?q?ion?= In-Reply-To: <000901d24cdc$d08f6420$71ae2c60$@timeldermusic.com> References: <000901d24cdc$d08f6420$71ae2c60$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: Thanks for your pointer. I've managed to get a copy of your paper, though grr academic paywalls. FYI, the case law you cited — National Day Laborer Organizing Network v ICE, No. 10-cv-3488 (S.D. N.Y. Feb. 7, 2011) — was explicitly retracted, id. June 17, 2011: Feb. 7: June 17: Nevertheless, the Feb. 7 opinion is quite thorough, and probably the clearest treatment of electronic format, metadata and FOIA I've seen in case law so far. It's from an ESI / discovery perspective, not considering § 508 issues — which I think are overlapping — but I've yet to see any case law that does explicitly consider that. Thanks! It'll be pretty useful for the MSJ I'm writing right now, at least for its logic and cites, even if I have to disclaim it as citable itself. I'm trying to get a permanent injunction for TSA's practice, among multiple other things, of refusing to provide native, accessible electronic format files with metadata. Once I'm no longer in the middle of drafting a brief, I'd be happy to collaborate on something for the FOIA Advisory Committee if you're interested. Relatedly, the Access Board's "508 refresh" final rule is submitted to OMB and pending publication: I asked them about it, and they said that they expect OMB to finish review "by or before the end of the administration". It'll be effective 6 months after publication, with an exception for procurement: Sincerely, - Sai On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Tim Elder wrote: > Hello Sai, > > I may be able to help with this. Here is an article I wrote about the relevant intersection between 508 and FOIA. > Lazar, J., Elder, T., and Stein, M. (2013). Understanding the Connection Between Human-Computer Interaction and Freedom of Information Laws. Interactions, 20(6), 60-63. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sai [mailto:legal at s.ai] > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 1:31 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] FOIA, § 508, and blind representation > > Hello all. > > The NARA / OGIS FOIA advisory committee is currently discussing agencies' obligations under Rehab Act § 508 and their intersection with federal FOIA law. > > > The underlying problem is that agencies have a process for processing documents, especially redacting, that takes an originally electronic document like a Word file, PDF, spreadsheet, etc, and turns it into a rasterized PDF. Some agencies will literally print a file and then scan it. > > Aside from some old documents that were actually made on typewriters or the like, the accessibility problem is entirely of the agencies' > own making. It violates both the Rehab Act § 508 and FOIA (which mandates that agencies provide documents in the format requested, including originals). > > > A structural issue is that there are, AFAICT, zero people on the committee with actual personal experience or expertise about the need for accessible documents. It is a classic example of people deciding things for an entire swath of disabled people without bothering to have any representation from that group in the decision. > > > The October 25, 2016 meeting was about this. > > Transcript of the full meeting: > > > > Video of part 2 only: > > > > > There are relevant comments by Alex Howard of Sunlight Foundation at p 115-120, time 1:13:50-1:20:30; and by Michael Ravnitzky at p 120-128, time 1:20:30-1:31:10. > > There are also comments at 1:12:30 by a member of the advisory committee suggesting that agencies should push the burden of making documents accessible onto the public and individual requesters. > Personally, I find that rather offensive — especially coming from someone who's supposed to be on a working group about § 508 best practices, since it displays a lack of even "disability law 101" level understanding. > > > So… if any of you are located in DC, would you be interested in participating in the OGIS meetings about FOIA and § 508 accessibility? > > Would you be interested in collaborating on written comments defending our right to information in accessible formats? > > Sincerely, > Sai > > > From tim at timeldermusic.com Sun Dec 4 16:56:47 2016 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 08:56:47 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] =?utf-8?q?FOIA=2C_=C2=A7_508=2C_and_blind_representat?= =?utf-8?q?ion?= In-Reply-To: References: <000901d24cdc$d08f6420$71ae2c60$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <004a01d24e4f$66f375a0$34da60e0$@timeldermusic.com> Yes, sorry about the paywall. I don't even get a copy of my own article. Yes, you are correct that the decision was retracted, but the analysis still holds as you have noted. The skeptic in me thinks the judge was tapped by national security types on how this could jeopardize classified information while complying with FOIA, bla bla bla ... Either way the opinion is a good analysis. -----Original Message----- From: Sai [mailto:legal at s.ai] Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:05 PM To: tim at timeldermusic.com Cc: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FOIA, § 508, and blind representation Thanks for your pointer. I've managed to get a copy of your paper, though grr academic paywalls. FYI, the case law you cited — National Day Laborer Organizing Network v ICE, No. 10-cv-3488 (S.D. N.Y. Feb. 7, 2011) — was explicitly retracted, id. June 17, 2011: Feb. 7: June 17: Nevertheless, the Feb. 7 opinion is quite thorough, and probably the clearest treatment of electronic format, metadata and FOIA I've seen in case law so far. It's from an ESI / discovery perspective, not considering § 508 issues — which I think are overlapping — but I've yet to see any case law that does explicitly consider that. Thanks! It'll be pretty useful for the MSJ I'm writing right now, at least for its logic and cites, even if I have to disclaim it as citable itself. I'm trying to get a permanent injunction for TSA's practice, among multiple other things, of refusing to provide native, accessible electronic format files with metadata. Once I'm no longer in the middle of drafting a brief, I'd be happy to collaborate on something for the FOIA Advisory Committee if you're interested. Relatedly, the Access Board's "508 refresh" final rule is submitted to OMB and pending publication: I asked them about it, and they said that they expect OMB to finish review "by or before the end of the administration". It'll be effective 6 months after publication, with an exception for procurement: Sincerely, - Sai On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Tim Elder wrote: > Hello Sai, > > I may be able to help with this. Here is an article I wrote about the relevant intersection between 508 and FOIA. > Lazar, J., Elder, T., and Stein, M. (2013). Understanding the Connection Between Human-Computer Interaction and Freedom of Information Laws. Interactions, 20(6), 60-63. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sai [mailto:legal at s.ai] > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 1:31 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] FOIA, § 508, and blind representation > > Hello all. > > The NARA / OGIS FOIA advisory committee is currently discussing agencies' obligations under Rehab Act § 508 and their intersection with federal FOIA law. > > > The underlying problem is that agencies have a process for processing documents, especially redacting, that takes an originally electronic document like a Word file, PDF, spreadsheet, etc, and turns it into a rasterized PDF. Some agencies will literally print a file and then scan it. > > Aside from some old documents that were actually made on typewriters or the like, the accessibility problem is entirely of the agencies' > own making. It violates both the Rehab Act § 508 and FOIA (which mandates that agencies provide documents in the format requested, including originals). > > > A structural issue is that there are, AFAICT, zero people on the committee with actual personal experience or expertise about the need for accessible documents. It is a classic example of people deciding things for an entire swath of disabled people without bothering to have any representation from that group in the decision. > > > The October 25, 2016 meeting was about this. > > Transcript of the full meeting: > > df> > > Video of part 2 only: > > sWX2o94WrDBxASNVEajHJ_L> > > > There are relevant comments by Alex Howard of Sunlight Foundation at p 115-120, time 1:13:50-1:20:30; and by Michael Ravnitzky at p 120-128, time 1:20:30-1:31:10. > > There are also comments at 1:12:30 by a member of the advisory committee suggesting that agencies should push the burden of making documents accessible onto the public and individual requesters. > Personally, I find that rather offensive — especially coming from someone who's supposed to be on a working group about § 508 best practices, since it displays a lack of even "disability law 101" level understanding. > > > So… if any of you are located in DC, would you be interested in participating in the OGIS meetings about FOIA and § 508 accessibility? > > Would you be interested in collaborating on written comments defending our right to information in accessible formats? > > Sincerely, > Sai > > > From legal at s.ai Sun Dec 4 19:44:37 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 14:44:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] =?utf-8?q?FOIA=2C_=C2=A7_508=2C_and_blind_representat?= =?utf-8?q?ion?= In-Reply-To: <004a01d24e4f$66f375a0$34da60e0$@timeldermusic.com> References: <000901d24cdc$d08f6420$71ae2c60$@timeldermusic.com> <004a01d24e4f$66f375a0$34da60e0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: Found the stipulated order: Basically, they agreed to produce everything as OCRd PDFs with accompanying txt files. That includes even Excel files; I don't know why they didn't stipulate to at least CSV or the like. This was after ICE appealed. They never filed a brief on appeal - they dismisssed based on the stipulation - but their motion for stay pending appeal seems to get at the crux of it (there's a whole slew of documents, and I've not reviewed most of them): Docket: - Sai On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 11:56 AM, Tim Elder wrote: > Yes, sorry about the paywall. I don't even get a copy of my own article. Yes, you are correct that the decision was retracted, but the analysis still holds as you have noted. The skeptic in me thinks the judge was tapped by national security types on how this could jeopardize classified information while complying with FOIA, bla bla bla ... Either way the opinion is a good analysis. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sai [mailto:legal at s.ai] > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:05 PM > To: tim at timeldermusic.com > Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FOIA, § 508, and blind representation > > Thanks for your pointer. I've managed to get a copy of your paper, though grr academic paywalls. > > FYI, the case law you cited — National Day Laborer Organizing Network v ICE, No. 10-cv-3488 (S.D. N.Y. Feb. 7, 2011) — was explicitly retracted, id. June 17, 2011: > > Feb. 7: > June 17: > > Nevertheless, the Feb. 7 opinion is quite thorough, and probably the clearest treatment of electronic format, metadata and FOIA I've seen in case law so far. It's from an ESI / discovery perspective, not considering § 508 issues — which I think are overlapping — but I've yet to see any case law that does explicitly consider that. > > Thanks! > > It'll be pretty useful for the MSJ I'm writing right now, at least for its logic and cites, even if I have to disclaim it as citable itself. > I'm trying to get a permanent injunction for TSA's practice, among multiple other things, of refusing to provide native, accessible electronic format files with metadata. > > > Once I'm no longer in the middle of drafting a brief, I'd be happy to collaborate on something for the FOIA Advisory Committee if you're interested. > > > Relatedly, the Access Board's "508 refresh" final rule is submitted to OMB and pending publication: > > > > I asked them about it, and they said that they expect OMB to finish review "by or before the end of the administration". > > It'll be effective 6 months after publication, with an exception for > procurement: > > Sincerely, > - Sai > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Tim Elder wrote: >> Hello Sai, >> >> I may be able to help with this. Here is an article I wrote about the relevant intersection between 508 and FOIA. >> Lazar, J., Elder, T., and Stein, M. (2013). Understanding the Connection Between Human-Computer Interaction and Freedom of Information Laws. Interactions, 20(6), 60-63. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sai [mailto:legal at s.ai] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 1:31 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [blindlaw] FOIA, § 508, and blind representation >> >> Hello all. >> >> The NARA / OGIS FOIA advisory committee is currently discussing agencies' obligations under Rehab Act § 508 and their intersection with federal FOIA law. >> >> >> The underlying problem is that agencies have a process for processing documents, especially redacting, that takes an originally electronic document like a Word file, PDF, spreadsheet, etc, and turns it into a rasterized PDF. Some agencies will literally print a file and then scan it. >> >> Aside from some old documents that were actually made on typewriters or the like, the accessibility problem is entirely of the agencies' >> own making. It violates both the Rehab Act § 508 and FOIA (which mandates that agencies provide documents in the format requested, including originals). >> >> >> A structural issue is that there are, AFAICT, zero people on the committee with actual personal experience or expertise about the need for accessible documents. It is a classic example of people deciding things for an entire swath of disabled people without bothering to have any representation from that group in the decision. >> >> >> The October 25, 2016 meeting was about this. >> >> Transcript of the full meeting: >> >> > df> >> >> Video of part 2 only: >> >> > sWX2o94WrDBxASNVEajHJ_L> >> >> >> There are relevant comments by Alex Howard of Sunlight Foundation at p 115-120, time 1:13:50-1:20:30; and by Michael Ravnitzky at p 120-128, time 1:20:30-1:31:10. >> >> There are also comments at 1:12:30 by a member of the advisory committee suggesting that agencies should push the burden of making documents accessible onto the public and individual requesters. >> Personally, I find that rather offensive — especially coming from someone who's supposed to be on a working group about § 508 best practices, since it displays a lack of even "disability law 101" level understanding. >> >> >> So… if any of you are located in DC, would you be interested in participating in the OGIS meetings about FOIA and § 508 accessibility? >> >> Would you be interested in collaborating on written comments defending our right to information in accessible formats? >> >> Sincerely, >> Sai >> >> >> > From jlynnbarrow at gmail.com Sun Dec 4 23:56:46 2016 From: jlynnbarrow at gmail.com (Jen Barrow) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 18:56:46 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking Ideas about Technology and Readers Message-ID: <018401d24e8a$135de660$3a19b320$@gmail.com> Hi All, I recently rejoined this list after several years away. It's good to be back. I'm looking for some ideas regarding technology or strategies that would be helpful in my job. I began practicing landlord/tenant law at a legal services org in New York City 6 months ago. I have been astounded at the amount of handwritten docs that are involved in this area of practice. Only a fraction of the docs I need to read and digest are scannable. Most docs, including the stips and decisions contained in housing court files, are partially or completely handwritten. And, I'm not getting adequate OCR results from other types of docs that theoretically should yield good scans, such as rent ledgers and public housing documents with checkboxes. I think some of the problem there is that many documents have degraded print, or are poor photocopies. I have been using Kurzweil as my scanning software, and virtually printing to Kurzweil when someone else scans me an image document. I tried running sample docs through other OCR programs we have at my office, but the results were not better. What scanning and OCR programs do you find to be most effective? I also receive minimal reader assistance from our unit secretary to access the handwritten docs. However, I find myself needing more of her time than she is able to give. I have practiced in other areas of law for several years, but I have never encountered this level of not being able to independently review and understand the material required of me. I'd be very open to hearing what kind of technological and human solutions people use when practicing in a highly visual and paper-reliant area of law. Thanks so much in advance! Jen From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Mon Dec 5 01:49:33 2016 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (rjaquiss) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 17:49:33 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking Ideas about Technology and Readers In-Reply-To: <018401d24e8a$135de660$3a19b320$@gmail.com> References: <018401d24e8a$135de660$3a19b320$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001d24e99$d43dfa00$7cb9ee00$@earthlink.net> Hello: As far as I know, there is no technology that can read handwritten documents. In case you don't know, Kurzweil has an automated way to analyze a document and adjust the scanner for best results. The procedure is a long one and is only useful if you have a large consistent group of pages. Hope this helps. Regards, Robert From ETroutman at BrooksPierce.com Mon Dec 5 14:52:44 2016 From: ETroutman at BrooksPierce.com (Elizabeth Troutman) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 14:52:44 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Document Review - Using Excel with Doc Review Platforms Message-ID: Hi all, My apologies for the delay in this. Attached is an explanation of how to use Relativity to generate an excel file for the purposes of document review. A sighted user has to create the excel, which is annoying I realize. But, once the excel is created, you can review the documents, view notes taken by other attorneys/paralegals, and make your own notes. Then you can have the sighted person feed the excel back into Relativity and your notes appear the same way that others would. I have them link the documents right into the Excel file so that I just hit "Enter" in the appropriate cell to open the document. If you have the latest version of Adobe, the OCR that Relativity does should allow you to read the document. Another way to go is just by getting the native files separately and looking them up by Bates numbers. I usually do the initial read through excel and then pull out the more important documents to convert to Word for more in-depth reading. I hope this helps! Elizabeth Elizabeth Troutman [cid:image002.jpg at 01D24EDD.4D903100] t: 336.271.3138 f: 336.232.9138 2000 Renaissance Plaza 230 North Elm Street Greensboro, NC 27401 P.O. Box 26000 (27420) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail transmittal is privileged and confidential intended for the addressee only. If you are neither the intended recipient nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, any disclosure of this information in any way or taking of any action in reliance on this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the person transmitting the information immediately. This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by M86 MailMarshal. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5192 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Relativity to Excel trick for doc review.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 172192 bytes Desc: Relativity to Excel trick for doc review.docx URL: From daniel.smyth06 at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 16:26:52 2016 From: daniel.smyth06 at gmail.com (Daniel Smyth) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 11:26:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT Message-ID: Hi All, My mentee has asked me what an appropriate amount of time to ask for on each section of the LSAT is. Can anyone share any insight as to the outer limit in terms of time the LSAC will go for? I can't speak directly to the question as I took the LSAT before some of the recent lawsuits and I am partially sighted. I am trying to get her to join the list and introduce herself, but in the meantime any help is hugely appreciated. Thank you in advance, Dan *Daniel E. Smyth* J.D. Candidate, 2017 St. John's University School of Law President | Student Bar Association (917) 692-1978 From jsteelelouchart at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 16:34:39 2016 From: jsteelelouchart at gmail.com (J Steele-Louchart) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 11:34:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, I'm totally blind and took mine this past Saturday. I used a screen-reader and electronic documents. I was completely comfortable with 100% additional time, with the exception of the logic games section, which requires you to diagram variables into multiple sequences and/or groups. (There really doesn't seem to be a good accommodation or amount of time for diagraming logic games on the LSAT.) Warmth, J On 12/5/16, Daniel Smyth via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi All, > > My mentee has asked me what an appropriate amount of time to ask for on > each section of the LSAT is. Can anyone share any insight as to the outer > limit in terms of time the LSAC will go for? I can't speak directly to the > question as I took the LSAT before some of the recent lawsuits and I am > partially sighted. I am trying to get her to join the list and introduce > herself, but in the meantime any help is hugely appreciated. > > Thank you in advance, > > Dan > > > > > *Daniel E. Smyth* > J.D. Candidate, 2017 > St. John's University School of Law > President | Student Bar Association > (917) 692-1978 > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com > -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One From jameyanne at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 16:51:36 2016 From: jameyanne at gmail.com (Jameyanne Fuller) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 11:51:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101d24f17$d7ad0bd0$87072370$@gmail.com> I had 100 percent extra time as well. I took my exam with a Braille test, Braille scrap paper, and a scribe to bubble in my answers, and a computer and screen reader to write my essay. This worked for me. I had no problems with the logic games. I found it easier to use my Perkins Brailler to diagram the logic games and have everything under my fingers. Lots of practice working out my own system paid off. Logic games was my best section and I consistently on practice tests and in the actual LSAT got a perfect score on that section. I've never heard of more than 100% extra time, but whatever your mentee decides, they should take as many practice tests as possible to get comfortable with the time limit. Jameyanne -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 11:35 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: J Steele-Louchart Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT Hello, I'm totally blind and took mine this past Saturday. I used a screen-reader and electronic documents. I was completely comfortable with 100% additional time, with the exception of the logic games section, which requires you to diagram variables into multiple sequences and/or groups. (There really doesn't seem to be a good accommodation or amount of time for diagraming logic games on the LSAT.) Warmth, J On 12/5/16, Daniel Smyth via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi All, > > My mentee has asked me what an appropriate amount of time to ask for on > each section of the LSAT is. Can anyone share any insight as to the outer > limit in terms of time the LSAC will go for? I can't speak directly to the > question as I took the LSAT before some of the recent lawsuits and I am > partially sighted. I am trying to get her to join the list and introduce > herself, but in the meantime any help is hugely appreciated. > > Thank you in advance, > > Dan > > > > > *Daniel E. Smyth* > J.D. Candidate, 2017 > St. John's University School of Law > President | Student Bar Association > (917) 692-1978 > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmai l.com > -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com From jsteelelouchart at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 17:00:08 2016 From: jsteelelouchart at gmail.com (J Steele-Louchart) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 12:00:08 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT In-Reply-To: <002101d24f17$d7ad0bd0$87072370$@gmail.com> References: <002101d24f17$d7ad0bd0$87072370$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jameyanne, You bring up a good point. Had I been able to do my logic games in braille, I would've had a very different experience with them. Unfortunately, my braille skills aren't yet where they need to be for me to have taken the test in braille. J On 12/5/16, Jameyanne Fuller via BlindLaw wrote: > I had 100 percent extra time as well. I took my exam with a Braille test, > Braille scrap paper, and a scribe to bubble in my answers, and a computer > and screen reader to write my essay. This worked for me. I had no problems > with the logic games. I found it easier to use my Perkins Brailler to > diagram the logic games and have everything under my fingers. Lots of > practice working out my own system paid off. Logic games was my best > section > and I consistently on practice tests and in the actual LSAT got a perfect > score on that section. > I've never heard of more than 100% extra time, but whatever your mentee > decides, they should take as many practice tests as possible to get > comfortable with the time limit. > Jameyanne > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J > Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 11:35 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: J Steele-Louchart > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT > > Hello, > > I'm totally blind and took mine this past Saturday. I used a > screen-reader and electronic documents. I was completely comfortable > with 100% additional time, with the exception of the logic games > section, which requires you to diagram variables into multiple > sequences and/or groups. (There really doesn't seem to be a good > accommodation or amount of time for diagraming logic games on the > LSAT.) > > Warmth, > J > > > On 12/5/16, Daniel Smyth via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> My mentee has asked me what an appropriate amount of time to ask for on >> each section of the LSAT is. Can anyone share any insight as to the outer >> limit in terms of time the LSAC will go for? I can't speak directly to > the >> question as I took the LSAT before some of the recent lawsuits and I am >> partially sighted. I am trying to get her to join the list and introduce >> herself, but in the meantime any help is hugely appreciated. >> >> Thank you in advance, >> >> Dan >> >> >> >> >> *Daniel E. Smyth* >> J.D. Candidate, 2017 >> St. John's University School of Law >> President | Student Bar Association >> (917) 692-1978 >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmai > l.com >> > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com > -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One From tim at timeldermusic.com Mon Dec 5 18:22:55 2016 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 10:22:55 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] WestLaw Next and Recommended Research in Folder Analysis Message-ID: <00b601d24f24$9969cb30$cc3d6190$@timeldermusic.com> All, In Westlaw, you can put cases in a folder and then get automated issue spotting and result recommendations per issue. My understanding is that the controls for limiting the display to the specific issues is not accessible. If you confirm this, please report the problem to Westlaw. I'm trying to get their attention around the issue, if it exists. So far, I'm only able to display "all" cases for all issues with no way to limit the case results display to only a specific issue. From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 18:29:13 2016 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 13:29:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] WestLaw Next and Recommended Research in Folder Analysis In-Reply-To: <00b601d24f24$9969cb30$cc3d6190$@timeldermusic.com> References: <00b601d24f24$9969cb30$cc3d6190$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: I've never even heard of this, so am not sure I can help; this sounds pretty useful, though. On 12/5/16, Tim Elder via BlindLaw wrote: > All, > > In Westlaw, you can put cases in a folder and then get automated issue > spotting and result recommendations per issue. My understanding is that > the > controls for limiting the display to the specific issues is not accessible. > If you confirm this, please report the problem to Westlaw. I'm trying to > get their attention around the issue, if it exists. So far, I'm only able > to display "all" cases for all issues with no way to limit the case results > display to only a specific issue. > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > From ETroutman at BrooksPierce.com Mon Dec 5 18:56:38 2016 From: ETroutman at BrooksPierce.com (Elizabeth Troutman) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 18:56:38 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] document review - text in email Message-ID: All, My last email had an attachment, but I'm not sure that attachments come through on the list serv. I have pasted the text below. Exporting Documents from Relativity Review In Relativity, create a saved search identifying the documents that need to be exported for review, outside of Relativity. Open the Relativity Desktop Client to export the saved search. 1. After selecting the case in the RDC, select the Tools 2. Navigate to Export>Saved Search [0001] 3. Select your Saved Search you want to export. 4. By default, it will populate the fields in your saved search, if you need to add any or rearrange the order, you can do so here. In this case, we wanted to export the Responsive, Privilege, Confidential and Issue Designations so that the reviewer can update these fields, and then import the coding back into Relativity. [0002] 5. Select your destination for the export location. 6. In order to be able to analyze the documents, it is best to have Native files ONLY as part of your export. 7. For the metadata export format, select the CSV option. We will convert this to Excel to make for easier review after the export. [0003] 8. Once exported, open the csv in Excel, format the fields to look how you'd like, and save as a XLS/x file. 9. By default the relative native file path is exported as the last field. Some users may find it helpful to have the filepath, some may not. If it is useful, I find it helpful to create a field that is hyperlinked to the begdoc number. Formula is =HYPERLINK(O2,A2) [cid:image004.png at 01D24EFF.653E1480] 10.When the review is finished, save the xls file back to a csv, so long as there are no commas in the review notes field. Also, normalize any data in the fields that were coded to ensure a uniform database. 11.Import the coded csv back into Relativity, overlaying on the data. Elizabeth Troutman [cid:image005.jpg at 01D24EFF.653E1480] t: 336.271.3138 f: 336.232.9138 2000 Renaissance Plaza 230 North Elm Street Greensboro, NC 27401 P.O. Box 26000 (27420) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail transmittal is privileged and confidential intended for the addressee only. If you are neither the intended recipient nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, any disclosure of this information in any way or taking of any action in reliance on this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the person transmitting the information immediately. This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by M86 MailMarshal. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 16441 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 59490 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 74230 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 2291 bytes Desc: image004.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5181 bytes Desc: image005.jpg URL: From legal at s.ai Mon Dec 5 18:58:52 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 13:58:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT In-Reply-To: References: <002101d24f17$d7ad0bd0$87072370$@gmail.com> Message-ID: On a legalistic side, from DFEH v LSAC and some other sources: Something not as widely circulated as the consent decree is the "best practices" panel final report and the court's order on it. I've attached both (plus the summary of the report). I suggest reading them in detail, as they're a bit complex. In short, for blindness or serious visual impairment, they create a rebuttable presumption of 100% extra time throughout — and 150% extra time on the analytical reasoning (logic games) section. Broadly, it creates three standards of accommodation: 1. non-time, given fairly easily (eg braille or electronic format, separate room, scratch paper, electronic essay submission, food & drink, extra break time rather than test time, etc) 2. extra time up to 50% for non-visual disabilities and up to 100% for visual disabilities, given with appropriate documentation (more or less automatic if it was given previously) 3. extra time more than that, requiring extra documentation (with the exception of 150% on analytical reasoning for blind people, which is in category 2). I would guess that if someone is blind *and* has another disability (like ADHD), they could make a good case for more time still, like 150% base / 200% analytical, but would face a lot of resistance and demands for extreme documentation. If you get them to grant electronic format, they'll send you a USB stick with an older HTML format test on it for practice purposes. (I'd have to check on whether I can share that or not, but if it would help - e.g. to determine how much speed is actually needed with that format - let me know privately.) As a practical matter, I'd suggest just asking for double time (and 150% time on analytical), pointing to the final report adopted by the court and documented visual disability. And practice with the electronic format to find out how much time it actually takes you. If it takes more time, be prepared for an uphill argument. I should add that there's also a fourth category of accommodation, that LSAC is extremely pissy about: phones. These are *not* in the consent decree, and LSAC still by default does not allow people to have them, even when turned off during the test. This is a bit ironic, in that they do allow laptops if you have electronic format. (In fact, they insist on you bringing your own, and give you the test in HTML format on an Ironkey USB stick.) I *was* able to get them to let me bring my phone - kept off during the test, just used so I could take an Uber to and from. However, that required making both a) a strong case that I needed my phone to be able to safely get to and from the test center, and b) a very credible threat of immediate litigation if they did not promptly agree. FWIW, I think there are two things not covered in the DFEH case that are ripe for a second class action: 1. phones, where required for purposes outside the test room, like navigation, transportation, communication, etc. and proposed to be kept off during the entire test 2. denials based exclusively on a combination of factors, no single one of which is permitted under the DFEH decree (e.g. high IQ, high test scores, no prior documented accommodation) If you happen to be interested in pursuing such a case as litigation counsel, please contact me privately. - Sai On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > Jameyanne, > > You bring up a good point. Had I been able to do my logic games in > braille, I would've had a very different experience with them. > Unfortunately, my braille skills aren't yet where they need to be for > me to have taken the test in braille. > > J > > > On 12/5/16, Jameyanne Fuller via BlindLaw wrote: >> I had 100 percent extra time as well. I took my exam with a Braille test, >> Braille scrap paper, and a scribe to bubble in my answers, and a computer >> and screen reader to write my essay. This worked for me. I had no problems >> with the logic games. I found it easier to use my Perkins Brailler to >> diagram the logic games and have everything under my fingers. Lots of >> practice working out my own system paid off. Logic games was my best >> section >> and I consistently on practice tests and in the actual LSAT got a perfect >> score on that section. >> I've never heard of more than 100% extra time, but whatever your mentee >> decides, they should take as many practice tests as possible to get >> comfortable with the time limit. >> Jameyanne >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J >> Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 11:35 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: J Steele-Louchart >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT >> >> Hello, >> >> I'm totally blind and took mine this past Saturday. I used a >> screen-reader and electronic documents. I was completely comfortable >> with 100% additional time, with the exception of the logic games >> section, which requires you to diagram variables into multiple >> sequences and/or groups. (There really doesn't seem to be a good >> accommodation or amount of time for diagraming logic games on the >> LSAT.) >> >> Warmth, >> J >> >> >> On 12/5/16, Daniel Smyth via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> My mentee has asked me what an appropriate amount of time to ask for on >>> each section of the LSAT is. Can anyone share any insight as to the outer >>> limit in terms of time the LSAC will go for? I can't speak directly to >> the >>> question as I took the LSAT before some of the recent lawsuits and I am >>> partially sighted. I am trying to get her to join the list and introduce >>> herself, but in the meantime any help is hugely appreciated. >>> >>> Thank you in advance, >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Daniel E. Smyth* >>> J.D. Candidate, 2017 >>> St. John's University School of Law >>> President | Student Bar Association >>> (917) 692-1978 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Final Panel Report.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 294712 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Spero LSAC Appeal order.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 657489 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Final Panel Report.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 294712 bytes Desc: not available URL: From legal at s.ai Mon Dec 5 19:03:31 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 14:03:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT In-Reply-To: References: <002101d24f17$d7ad0bd0$87072370$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I mistakenly attached the final panel report twice. Here's the executive summary document. On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Sai wrote: > On a legalistic side, from DFEH v LSAC and some other sources: > > > Something not as widely circulated as the consent decree is the "best > practices" panel final report and the court's order on it. I've > attached both (plus the summary of the report). > > I suggest reading them in detail, as they're a bit complex. > > In short, for blindness or serious visual impairment, they create a > rebuttable presumption of 100% extra time throughout — and 150% extra > time on the analytical reasoning (logic games) section. > > Broadly, it creates three standards of accommodation: > 1. non-time, given fairly easily (eg braille or electronic format, > separate room, scratch paper, electronic essay submission, food & > drink, extra break time rather than test time, etc) > 2. extra time up to 50% for non-visual disabilities and up to 100% for > visual disabilities, given with appropriate documentation (more or > less automatic if it was given previously) > 3. extra time more than that, requiring extra documentation (with the > exception of 150% on analytical reasoning for blind people, which is > in category 2). > > > I would guess that if someone is blind *and* has another disability > (like ADHD), they could make a good case for more time still, like > 150% base / 200% analytical, but would face a lot of resistance and > demands for extreme documentation. > > If you get them to grant electronic format, they'll send you a USB > stick with an older HTML format test on it for practice purposes. > > (I'd have to check on whether I can share that or not, but if it would > help - e.g. to determine how much speed is actually needed with that > format - let me know privately.) > > As a practical matter, I'd suggest just asking for double time (and > 150% time on analytical), pointing to the final report adopted by the > court and documented visual disability. And practice with the > electronic format to find out how much time it actually takes you. > > If it takes more time, be prepared for an uphill argument. > > > > I should add that there's also a fourth category of accommodation, > that LSAC is extremely pissy about: phones. > > These are *not* in the consent decree, and LSAC still by default does > not allow people to have them, even when turned off during the test. > > This is a bit ironic, in that they do allow laptops if you have > electronic format. (In fact, they insist on you bringing your own, and > give you the test in HTML format on an Ironkey USB stick.) > > I *was* able to get them to let me bring my phone - kept off during > the test, just used so I could take an Uber to and from. > > However, that required making both > a) a strong case that I needed my phone to be able to safely get to > and from the test center, and > b) a very credible threat of immediate litigation if they did not > promptly agree. > > > FWIW, I think there are two things not covered in the DFEH case that > are ripe for a second class action: > > 1. phones, where required for purposes outside the test room, like > navigation, transportation, communication, etc. and proposed to be > kept off during the entire test > > 2. denials based exclusively on a combination of factors, no single > one of which is permitted under the DFEH decree (e.g. high IQ, high > test scores, no prior documented accommodation) > > If you happen to be interested in pursuing such a case as litigation > counsel, please contact me privately. > > - Sai > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > wrote: >> Jameyanne, >> >> You bring up a good point. Had I been able to do my logic games in >> braille, I would've had a very different experience with them. >> Unfortunately, my braille skills aren't yet where they need to be for >> me to have taken the test in braille. >> >> J >> >> >> On 12/5/16, Jameyanne Fuller via BlindLaw wrote: >>> I had 100 percent extra time as well. I took my exam with a Braille test, >>> Braille scrap paper, and a scribe to bubble in my answers, and a computer >>> and screen reader to write my essay. This worked for me. I had no problems >>> with the logic games. I found it easier to use my Perkins Brailler to >>> diagram the logic games and have everything under my fingers. Lots of >>> practice working out my own system paid off. Logic games was my best >>> section >>> and I consistently on practice tests and in the actual LSAT got a perfect >>> score on that section. >>> I've never heard of more than 100% extra time, but whatever your mentee >>> decides, they should take as many practice tests as possible to get >>> comfortable with the time limit. >>> Jameyanne >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J >>> Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 11:35 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: J Steele-Louchart >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I'm totally blind and took mine this past Saturday. I used a >>> screen-reader and electronic documents. I was completely comfortable >>> with 100% additional time, with the exception of the logic games >>> section, which requires you to diagram variables into multiple >>> sequences and/or groups. (There really doesn't seem to be a good >>> accommodation or amount of time for diagraming logic games on the >>> LSAT.) >>> >>> Warmth, >>> J >>> >>> >>> On 12/5/16, Daniel Smyth via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> My mentee has asked me what an appropriate amount of time to ask for on >>>> each section of the LSAT is. Can anyone share any insight as to the outer >>>> limit in terms of time the LSAC will go for? I can't speak directly to >>> the >>>> question as I took the LSAT before some of the recent lawsuits and I am >>>> partially sighted. I am trying to get her to join the list and introduce >>>> herself, but in the meantime any help is hugely appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thank you in advance, >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Daniel E. Smyth* >>>> J.D. Candidate, 2017 >>>> St. John's University School of Law >>>> President | Student Bar Association >>>> (917) 692-1978 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmai >>> l.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> J Steele-Louchart >>> >>> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Executive-Summary-of-the-Report.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 81949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From legal at s.ai Mon Dec 5 19:05:52 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 14:05:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT In-Reply-To: References: <002101d24f17$d7ad0bd0$87072370$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Also, docx format of the best practices report if you prefer: The court order I gave earlier granted some and denied some, so it has to be cross-referenced. On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sai wrote: > I mistakenly attached the final panel report twice. Here's the > executive summary document. > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Sai wrote: >> On a legalistic side, from DFEH v LSAC and some other sources: >> >> >> Something not as widely circulated as the consent decree is the "best >> practices" panel final report and the court's order on it. I've >> attached both (plus the summary of the report). >> >> I suggest reading them in detail, as they're a bit complex. >> >> In short, for blindness or serious visual impairment, they create a >> rebuttable presumption of 100% extra time throughout — and 150% extra >> time on the analytical reasoning (logic games) section. >> >> Broadly, it creates three standards of accommodation: >> 1. non-time, given fairly easily (eg braille or electronic format, >> separate room, scratch paper, electronic essay submission, food & >> drink, extra break time rather than test time, etc) >> 2. extra time up to 50% for non-visual disabilities and up to 100% for >> visual disabilities, given with appropriate documentation (more or >> less automatic if it was given previously) >> 3. extra time more than that, requiring extra documentation (with the >> exception of 150% on analytical reasoning for blind people, which is >> in category 2). >> >> >> I would guess that if someone is blind *and* has another disability >> (like ADHD), they could make a good case for more time still, like >> 150% base / 200% analytical, but would face a lot of resistance and >> demands for extreme documentation. >> >> If you get them to grant electronic format, they'll send you a USB >> stick with an older HTML format test on it for practice purposes. >> >> (I'd have to check on whether I can share that or not, but if it would >> help - e.g. to determine how much speed is actually needed with that >> format - let me know privately.) >> >> As a practical matter, I'd suggest just asking for double time (and >> 150% time on analytical), pointing to the final report adopted by the >> court and documented visual disability. And practice with the >> electronic format to find out how much time it actually takes you. >> >> If it takes more time, be prepared for an uphill argument. >> >> >> >> I should add that there's also a fourth category of accommodation, >> that LSAC is extremely pissy about: phones. >> >> These are *not* in the consent decree, and LSAC still by default does >> not allow people to have them, even when turned off during the test. >> >> This is a bit ironic, in that they do allow laptops if you have >> electronic format. (In fact, they insist on you bringing your own, and >> give you the test in HTML format on an Ironkey USB stick.) >> >> I *was* able to get them to let me bring my phone - kept off during >> the test, just used so I could take an Uber to and from. >> >> However, that required making both >> a) a strong case that I needed my phone to be able to safely get to >> and from the test center, and >> b) a very credible threat of immediate litigation if they did not >> promptly agree. >> >> >> FWIW, I think there are two things not covered in the DFEH case that >> are ripe for a second class action: >> >> 1. phones, where required for purposes outside the test room, like >> navigation, transportation, communication, etc. and proposed to be >> kept off during the entire test >> >> 2. denials based exclusively on a combination of factors, no single >> one of which is permitted under the DFEH decree (e.g. high IQ, high >> test scores, no prior documented accommodation) >> >> If you happen to be interested in pursuing such a case as litigation >> counsel, please contact me privately. >> >> - Sai >> >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> Jameyanne, >>> >>> You bring up a good point. Had I been able to do my logic games in >>> braille, I would've had a very different experience with them. >>> Unfortunately, my braille skills aren't yet where they need to be for >>> me to have taken the test in braille. >>> >>> J >>> >>> >>> On 12/5/16, Jameyanne Fuller via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> I had 100 percent extra time as well. I took my exam with a Braille test, >>>> Braille scrap paper, and a scribe to bubble in my answers, and a computer >>>> and screen reader to write my essay. This worked for me. I had no problems >>>> with the logic games. I found it easier to use my Perkins Brailler to >>>> diagram the logic games and have everything under my fingers. Lots of >>>> practice working out my own system paid off. Logic games was my best >>>> section >>>> and I consistently on practice tests and in the actual LSAT got a perfect >>>> score on that section. >>>> I've never heard of more than 100% extra time, but whatever your mentee >>>> decides, they should take as many practice tests as possible to get >>>> comfortable with the time limit. >>>> Jameyanne >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J >>>> Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 11:35 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: J Steele-Louchart >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I'm totally blind and took mine this past Saturday. I used a >>>> screen-reader and electronic documents. I was completely comfortable >>>> with 100% additional time, with the exception of the logic games >>>> section, which requires you to diagram variables into multiple >>>> sequences and/or groups. (There really doesn't seem to be a good >>>> accommodation or amount of time for diagraming logic games on the >>>> LSAT.) >>>> >>>> Warmth, >>>> J >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/5/16, Daniel Smyth via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> My mentee has asked me what an appropriate amount of time to ask for on >>>>> each section of the LSAT is. Can anyone share any insight as to the outer >>>>> limit in terms of time the LSAC will go for? I can't speak directly to >>>> the >>>>> question as I took the LSAT before some of the recent lawsuits and I am >>>>> partially sighted. I am trying to get her to join the list and introduce >>>>> herself, but in the meantime any help is hugely appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you in advance, >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Daniel E. Smyth* >>>>> J.D. Candidate, 2017 >>>>> St. John's University School of Law >>>>> President | Student Bar Association >>>>> (917) 692-1978 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> J Steele-Louchart >>>> >>>> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> J Steele-Louchart >>> >>> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From jameyanne at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 19:16:54 2016 From: jameyanne at gmail.com (Jameyanne Fuller) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 14:16:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT In-Reply-To: References: <002101d24f17$d7ad0bd0$87072370$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <006e01d24f2c$241b2600$6c517200$@gmail.com> LSAC will also send practice Braille tests to get used to that format too if that's what you prefer. And they'll send you multiple tests. I believe I got six, and then I used practice tests in the books I got off bookshare with my BrailleNote (Not exactly the same format but it worked). Jameyanne -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sai via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 2:06 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sai Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT Also, docx format of the best practices report if you prefer: The court order I gave earlier granted some and denied some, so it has to be cross-referenced. On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sai wrote: > I mistakenly attached the final panel report twice. Here's the > executive summary document. > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Sai wrote: >> On a legalistic side, from DFEH v LSAC and some other sources: >> >> >> Something not as widely circulated as the consent decree is the "best >> practices" panel final report and the court's order on it. I've >> attached both (plus the summary of the report). >> >> I suggest reading them in detail, as they're a bit complex. >> >> In short, for blindness or serious visual impairment, they create a >> rebuttable presumption of 100% extra time throughout — and 150% extra >> time on the analytical reasoning (logic games) section. >> >> Broadly, it creates three standards of accommodation: >> 1. non-time, given fairly easily (eg braille or electronic format, >> separate room, scratch paper, electronic essay submission, food & >> drink, extra break time rather than test time, etc) >> 2. extra time up to 50% for non-visual disabilities and up to 100% for >> visual disabilities, given with appropriate documentation (more or >> less automatic if it was given previously) >> 3. extra time more than that, requiring extra documentation (with the >> exception of 150% on analytical reasoning for blind people, which is >> in category 2). >> >> >> I would guess that if someone is blind *and* has another disability >> (like ADHD), they could make a good case for more time still, like >> 150% base / 200% analytical, but would face a lot of resistance and >> demands for extreme documentation. >> >> If you get them to grant electronic format, they'll send you a USB >> stick with an older HTML format test on it for practice purposes. >> >> (I'd have to check on whether I can share that or not, but if it would >> help - e.g. to determine how much speed is actually needed with that >> format - let me know privately.) >> >> As a practical matter, I'd suggest just asking for double time (and >> 150% time on analytical), pointing to the final report adopted by the >> court and documented visual disability. And practice with the >> electronic format to find out how much time it actually takes you. >> >> If it takes more time, be prepared for an uphill argument. >> >> >> >> I should add that there's also a fourth category of accommodation, >> that LSAC is extremely pissy about: phones. >> >> These are *not* in the consent decree, and LSAC still by default does >> not allow people to have them, even when turned off during the test. >> >> This is a bit ironic, in that they do allow laptops if you have >> electronic format. (In fact, they insist on you bringing your own, and >> give you the test in HTML format on an Ironkey USB stick.) >> >> I *was* able to get them to let me bring my phone - kept off during >> the test, just used so I could take an Uber to and from. >> >> However, that required making both >> a) a strong case that I needed my phone to be able to safely get to >> and from the test center, and >> b) a very credible threat of immediate litigation if they did not >> promptly agree. >> >> >> FWIW, I think there are two things not covered in the DFEH case that >> are ripe for a second class action: >> >> 1. phones, where required for purposes outside the test room, like >> navigation, transportation, communication, etc. and proposed to be >> kept off during the entire test >> >> 2. denials based exclusively on a combination of factors, no single >> one of which is permitted under the DFEH decree (e.g. high IQ, high >> test scores, no prior documented accommodation) >> >> If you happen to be interested in pursuing such a case as litigation >> counsel, please contact me privately. >> >> - Sai >> >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> Jameyanne, >>> >>> You bring up a good point. Had I been able to do my logic games in >>> braille, I would've had a very different experience with them. >>> Unfortunately, my braille skills aren't yet where they need to be for >>> me to have taken the test in braille. >>> >>> J >>> >>> >>> On 12/5/16, Jameyanne Fuller via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> I had 100 percent extra time as well. I took my exam with a Braille test, >>>> Braille scrap paper, and a scribe to bubble in my answers, and a computer >>>> and screen reader to write my essay. This worked for me. I had no problems >>>> with the logic games. I found it easier to use my Perkins Brailler to >>>> diagram the logic games and have everything under my fingers. Lots of >>>> practice working out my own system paid off. Logic games was my best >>>> section >>>> and I consistently on practice tests and in the actual LSAT got a perfect >>>> score on that section. >>>> I've never heard of more than 100% extra time, but whatever your mentee >>>> decides, they should take as many practice tests as possible to get >>>> comfortable with the time limit. >>>> Jameyanne >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J >>>> Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 11:35 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: J Steele-Louchart >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Time on the LSAT >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I'm totally blind and took mine this past Saturday. I used a >>>> screen-reader and electronic documents. I was completely comfortable >>>> with 100% additional time, with the exception of the logic games >>>> section, which requires you to diagram variables into multiple >>>> sequences and/or groups. (There really doesn't seem to be a good >>>> accommodation or amount of time for diagraming logic games on the >>>> LSAT.) >>>> >>>> Warmth, >>>> J >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/5/16, Daniel Smyth via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> My mentee has asked me what an appropriate amount of time to ask for on >>>>> each section of the LSAT is. Can anyone share any insight as to the outer >>>>> limit in terms of time the LSAC will go for? I can't speak directly to >>>> the >>>>> question as I took the LSAT before some of the recent lawsuits and I am >>>>> partially sighted. I am trying to get her to join the list and introduce >>>>> herself, but in the meantime any help is hugely appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you in advance, >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Daniel E. Smyth* >>>>> J.D. Candidate, 2017 >>>>> St. John's University School of Law >>>>> President | Student Bar Association >>>>> (917) 692-1978 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> J Steele-Louchart >>>> >>>> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> J Steele-Louchart >>> >>> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com From Anne.Naber at thomsonreuters.com Mon Dec 5 19:24:54 2016 From: Anne.Naber at thomsonreuters.com (Anne.Naber at thomsonreuters.com) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 19:24:54 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] WestLaw Next and Recommended Research in Folder Analysis In-Reply-To: <00b601d24f24$9969cb30$cc3d6190$@timeldermusic.com> References: <00b601d24f24$9969cb30$cc3d6190$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <4854F51579FAF44DAAA92AA2CD097897043BD8D4@EAGE-ERFPMBX46.ERF.thomson.com> Could you please explain further? This feature seems to be working properly for me. Thanks. Anne Naber Quality Assurance / Accessibility Thomson Reuters Phone: 651-687-6214 anne.naber at thomsonreuters.com ________________________________________ From: BlindLaw [blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Elder via BlindLaw [blindlaw at nfbnet.org] Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:22 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Tim Elder Subject: [blindlaw] WestLaw Next and Recommended Research in Folder Analysis All, In Westlaw, you can put cases in a folder and then get automated issue spotting and result recommendations per issue. My understanding is that the controls for limiting the display to the specific issues is not accessible. If you confirm this, please report the problem to Westlaw. I'm trying to get their attention around the issue, if it exists. So far, I'm only able to display "all" cases for all issues with no way to limit the case results display to only a specific issue. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listinfo_blindlaw-5Fnfbnet.org&d=CwICAg&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=qPt-K5Jd0ROXqH8PdDk_-jW2pI08jEVdXzUC36X2pKs&m=dbQShU6IlPFIBjDRd5DcbiDd8-nhXPxpVJ6W6JIqknM&s=1b9L0O6XyAsBB3OKZHwrKmMJhQPFz3_y5netg3HwJqk&e= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_options_blindlaw-5Fnfbnet.org_anne.naber-2540thomsonreuters.com&d=CwICAg&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=qPt-K5Jd0ROXqH8PdDk_-jW2pI08jEVdXzUC36X2pKs&m=dbQShU6IlPFIBjDRd5DcbiDd8-nhXPxpVJ6W6JIqknM&s=v0wSXkZqV_IhnBfj_vLV7oG2p5u-h6klh53Bz38D9_k&e= From tim at timeldermusic.com Mon Dec 5 20:44:50 2016 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 12:44:50 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] WestLaw Next and Recommended Research in Folder Analysis In-Reply-To: <4854F51579FAF44DAAA92AA2CD097897043BD8D4@EAGE-ERFPMBX46.ERF.thomson.com> References: <00b601d24f24$9969cb30$cc3d6190$@timeldermusic.com> <4854F51579FAF44DAAA92AA2CD097897043BD8D4@EAGE-ERFPMBX46.ERF.thomson.com> Message-ID: <00d801d24f38$6cdf92c0$469eb840$@timeldermusic.com> Thanks Anne, I'm so glad you are on the list. My understanding is there are two arrows near the "all" button that enables different issues to be displayed in sequential order from the issue list. However, I did not see any controls that would parallel to the arrows that the trainer was referring to. Also, when I activate the issue from the list issue in the bar graph above the results display it doesn't change the results listed below. For example, I can observe that issue I has 10 recommended cases based on 6 cases in the folder. However, when I look at the results list it is displaying all 27 recommended cases for all issues I-V without indicating which case is recommended for each issue. Nothing I was able to do would narrow the results to display only the 10 results related to issue I. -----Original Message----- From: Anne.Naber at thomsonreuters.com [mailto:Anne.Naber at thomsonreuters.com] Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:25 AM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: RE: [blindlaw] WestLaw Next and Recommended Research in Folder Analysis Could you please explain further? This feature seems to be working properly for me. Thanks. Anne Naber Quality Assurance / Accessibility Thomson Reuters Phone: 651-687-6214 anne.naber at thomsonreuters.com ________________________________________ From: BlindLaw [blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Elder via BlindLaw [blindlaw at nfbnet.org] Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:22 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Tim Elder Subject: [blindlaw] WestLaw Next and Recommended Research in Folder Analysis All, In Westlaw, you can put cases in a folder and then get automated issue spotting and result recommendations per issue. My understanding is that the controls for limiting the display to the specific issues is not accessible. If you confirm this, please report the problem to Westlaw. I'm trying to get their attention around the issue, if it exists. So far, I'm only able to display "all" cases for all issues with no way to limit the case results display to only a specific issue. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listi nfo_blindlaw-5Fnfbnet.org&d=CwICAg&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuC Ss5Q&r=qPt-K5Jd0ROXqH8PdDk_-jW2pI08jEVdXzUC36X2pKs&m=dbQShU6IlPFIBjDRd5DcbiD d8-nhXPxpVJ6W6JIqknM&s=1b9L0O6XyAsBB3OKZHwrKmMJhQPFz3_y5netg3HwJqk&e= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_optio ns_blindlaw-5Fnfbnet.org_anne.naber-2540thomsonreuters.com&d=CwICAg&c=4ZIZTh ykDLcoWk-GVjSLm9hvvvzvGv0FLoWSRuCSs5Q&r=qPt-K5Jd0ROXqH8PdDk_-jW2pI08jEVdXzUC 36X2pKs&m=dbQShU6IlPFIBjDRd5DcbiDd8-nhXPxpVJ6W6JIqknM&s=v0wSXkZqV_IhnBfj_vLV 7oG2p5u-h6klh53Bz38D9_k&e= From tim at timeldermusic.com Tue Dec 6 15:01:36 2016 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 07:01:36 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw folder analysis In-Reply-To: <4854F51579FAF44DAAA92AA2CD097897043C8D6C@EAGH-ERFPMBX41.ERF.thomson.com> References: <4854F51579FAF44DAAA92AA2CD097897043C8D6C@EAGH-ERFPMBX41.ERF.thomson.com> Message-ID: <014401d24fd1$a44eea00$ececbe00$@timeldermusic.com> No problem. Thanks for the effort. I'm sure you could get good feedback from the folks on this Blindlaw list. -----Original Message----- From: Anne.Naber at thomsonreuters.com [mailto:Anne.Naber at thomsonreuters.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 6:42 AM To: tim at timeldermusic.com Subject: Westlaw folder analysis Hi Tim, I now understand what the issue is. There are a couple of bugs open regarding this issue, and they are being retested right now. Thank you for your feedback, we really do appreciate it. We will be sending out a survey via the NFB blind law list- hopefully within the next month. It would be great if you were willing to participate, and would forward on to anyone else you know who might be interested. Thanks. Anne Anne Naber Quality Assurance / Accessibility Thomson Reuters Phone: 651-687-6214 anne.naber at thomsonreuters.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 6 19:02:04 2016 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 19:02:04 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [WADA] Fwd: Senior Court Program & Policy Analyst Position - Superior Court Judges Association In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: washingtonattorneyswithdisabilitiesassociation at googlegroups.com [mailto:washingtonattorneyswithdisabilitiesassociation at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Conrad Reynoldson Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:34 AM To: WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation at googlegroups.com Subject: [WADA] Fwd: Senior Court Program & Policy Analyst Position - Superior Court Judges Association Greetings. The Administrative Office of the Courts has just re-opened the following position that may be of interest to someone in your professional association or someone you know. Please distribute as you like (a PDF copy is also attached for distribution). Thank you. > SENIOR COURT PROGRAM AND POLICY ANALYST For the Superior Court Judges’ Association Employees can be a great source for identifying potential candidates. Please feel free to share this opportunity with those you feel may be interested and qualified, and let them know about the benefits of working for the judicial branch, including: • A choice of several medical and dental plans, where the employer contributes to the premiums to make high-quality medical coverage affordable. Dental premiums are fully-paid. • An excellent retirement plan, which includes employer contributions and an option to make additional, tax-deferred retirement investments. • Paid vacation and sick leave, 11 paid holidays per year, paid leave for jury or other civil duties, and leave for military service. • Options to participate in a health care flexible spending account, a dependent care assistance program, and an employee assistance program. You can view all current openings on our website at Washington State Courts - Employment. If you have any questions, please give me a call at 360-704-4143. Colleen C. Clark Human Resources Specialist Administrative Office of the Courts PO Box 41170 / Olympia, WA 98504-1170 360.704.4143 / FAX 360.586.4409 colleen.clark at courts.wa.gov employment at courts.wa.gov -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Washington Attorneys with Disabilities Association" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation at googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Announcement.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 527498 bytes Desc: Announcement.pdf URL: From kaerickson at stu.clcillinois.edu Wed Dec 7 04:30:13 2016 From: kaerickson at stu.clcillinois.edu (krista erickson) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 22:30:13 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Determining Page Numbers when Reading Cases in WestLaw Next Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I've been using WestLaw Next to find and read cases for a class research project. We are limited to the cases we can cite in the project and have to pinpoint citations. Do any of you have suggestions for easily determining the correct page numbers that text from a case would appear on if reading cases in actual hard-bound books? The numbers preceeded by * in WestLaw Next don't appear to directly correspond to actual page numbers. Thanks. Krista From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 05:13:10 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 00:13:10 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Determining Page Numbers when Reading Cases in WestLaw Next In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02B6DEBC-5E8E-4335-A758-341D342817A2@gmail.com> At the top of the case you'll find the list of reporters. Note the number of stars preceding your preferred reporter. That will indicate the page number for that particular reporter. Hope that helps. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2016, at 11:30 PM, krista erickson via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > I've been using WestLaw Next to find and read cases for a class > research project. We are limited to the cases we can cite in the > project and have to pinpoint citations. Do any of you have suggestions > for easily determining the correct page numbers that text from a case > would appear on if reading cases in actual hard-bound books? The > numbers preceeded by * in WestLaw Next don't appear to directly > correspond to actual page numbers. Thanks. > Krista > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 11:12:28 2016 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 06:12:28 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ; Determining Page Numbers when Reading Cases in WestLaw Next Message-ID: Hi Krista, I will tell you my strategy, but I'm sure others use different ones. As Amy explained, the text of a Westlaw case has the pagenation to multiple reporters. These are usually called parallel citations. There can be two or sometimes three different reporters, and they are listed at the top. To distinguish the reporters, different numbers of asterisks are placed next to the page numbers associated with each respective reporter. Westlaw cases use a system of star pagenation, i.e., instead of having a one-to-one correspondence between a page in Westlaw and a print page as you noticed, the case will just mark where the pages for the various reporters change as you read through the case. The relevant report from the West National Reporter system is **ALMOST ALWAYS** the reporter to which you will cite, and it **ALMOST ALWAYS** has one asterisk next to it for purposes of star pagenation. The most common exception to this, at least in my experience, would be citations to recent Supreme Court opinions. Those opinions take about five years to make it into West's U.S. reports, meaning that recent opinions are typically cited to the Supreme Court Reporter. Normally, that reporter is marked by two stars, but in instances where there is no citation to the U.S. reporter yet, it is marked with only one. As an example, compare NLRB v. Noel Canning, 134 S. Ct. 2550 (not yet printed in U.S. reports) with Blair v. United States, 250 U.S. 273. My strategy for pinciting is clumsy, but it works. I simply find the text I want, then doa control+f and search for the next asterisk. making sure it is marked with the proper number of asterisks, I just count back by one. This method has its pitfalls. The most frustrating one is when you're citing something from the last page of the case. The most common mistake deals with making sure you know when you're citing a footnote. But, with practice, I have become quite quick at it. I've heard West has a "copy with citation" feature, but I've never used it. I hope this is helpful. This is written pre-coffee, so please feel free to contact me offlist if anything is confusing. Best of luck, Laura On 12/7/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > At the top of the case you'll find the list of reporters. Note the number of > stars preceding your preferred reporter. That will indicate the page number > for that particular reporter. Hope that helps. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 6, 2016, at 11:30 PM, krista erickson via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Hi Everyone, >> I've been using WestLaw Next to find and read cases for a class >> research project. We are limited to the cases we can cite in the >> project and have to pinpoint citations. Do any of you have suggestions >> for easily determining the correct page numbers that text from a case >> would appear on if reading cases in actual hard-bound books? The >> numbers preceeded by * in WestLaw Next don't appear to directly >> correspond to actual page numbers. Thanks. >> Krista >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From rene0373 at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 18:31:09 2016 From: rene0373 at gmail.com (Elizabeth Rene) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 10:31:09 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Animal law fellowship | Animal Legal Defense Fund Message-ID: Hi all, I'm passing along this exciting fellowship opportunity for new lawyers who love animals. Guide dog users, wouldn't it be great to get out there and work for your partners' civil rights? Animal Law is a developing new field where one could gain expertise and a unique market niche. Good luck! Elizabeth http://aldf.org/resources/animal-law-events-opportunities/clerkships-internships-fellowships/id/2863/ Elizabeth M René Attorney at Law WSBA #10710 KCBA #21824 rene0373 at gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 19:06:36 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:06:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams Message-ID: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> Hello everyone, I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply to any other exam. Aimee Sent from my iPhone From jmccarthy at mdtap.org Wed Dec 7 19:56:37 2016 From: jmccarthy at mdtap.org (Jim McCarthy) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:56:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM To: BlindLaw Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams Hello everyone, I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply to any other exam. Aimee Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org From shannonldillon at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 20:14:07 2016 From: shannonldillon at gmail.com (Shannon Dillon) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 12:14:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ; Determining Page Numbers when Reading Cases in WestLaw Next In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Has anyone used the copy with citation Laura briefly mentions at the end of her explanation? The last time I asked Thompson West about it, it was not accessible. I think you have to select with the mouse. I can't remember exactly the steps now but it was not something I was able to simulate at the time. Does anyone have another experience? On 12/7/16, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi Krista, > > I will tell you my strategy, but I'm sure others use different ones. > > As Amy explained, the text of a Westlaw case has the pagenation to > multiple reporters. These are usually called parallel citations. > There can be two or sometimes three different reporters, and they are > listed at the top. To distinguish the reporters, different numbers of > asterisks are placed next to the page numbers associated with each > respective reporter. Westlaw cases use a system of star pagenation, > i.e., instead of having a one-to-one correspondence between a page in > Westlaw and a print page as you noticed, the case will just mark where > the pages for the various reporters change as you read through the > case. > > The relevant report from the West National Reporter system is **ALMOST > ALWAYS** the reporter to which you will cite, and it **ALMOST > ALWAYS** has one asterisk next to it for purposes of star pagenation. > The most common exception to this, at least in my experience, would be > citations to recent Supreme Court opinions. Those opinions take about > five years to make it into West's U.S. reports, meaning that recent > opinions are typically cited to the Supreme Court Reporter. Normally, > that reporter is marked by two stars, but in instances where there is > no citation to the U.S. reporter yet, it is marked with only one. As > an example, compare NLRB v. Noel Canning, 134 S. Ct. 2550 (not yet > printed in U.S. reports) with Blair v. United States, 250 U.S. > 273. > > My strategy for pinciting is clumsy, but it works. I simply find the > text I want, then doa control+f and search for the next asterisk. > making sure it is marked with the proper number of asterisks, I just > count back by one. This method has its pitfalls. The most > frustrating one is when you're citing something from the last page of > the case. The most common mistake deals with making sure you know > when you're citing a footnote. But, with practice, I have become > quite quick at it. I've heard West has a "copy with citation" > feature, but I've never used it. > > I hope this is helpful. This is written pre-coffee, so please feel > free to contact me offlist if anything is confusing. > > Best of luck, > Laura > > On 12/7/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> At the top of the case you'll find the list of reporters. Note the number >> of >> stars preceding your preferred reporter. That will indicate the page >> number >> for that particular reporter. Hope that helps. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 6, 2016, at 11:30 PM, krista erickson via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> I've been using WestLaw Next to find and read cases for a class >>> research project. We are limited to the cases we can cite in the >>> project and have to pinpoint citations. Do any of you have suggestions >>> for easily determining the correct page numbers that text from a case >>> would appear on if reading cases in actual hard-bound books? The >>> numbers preceeded by * in WestLaw Next don't appear to directly >>> correspond to actual page numbers. Thanks. >>> Krista >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com > -- SHANNON L. DILLON From rodalcidonis at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 20:16:53 2016 From: rodalcidonis at gmail.com (Rod) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:16:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more interested in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is one I would have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of mine attended a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam in his dorm room, subject to the honor code. The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but theirs. And they are not doing it. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Jim McCarthy Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM To: BlindLaw Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams Hello everyone, I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply to any other exam. Aimee Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 20:36:20 2016 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:36:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: Is there a particular reason you need the accommodation? Are law school allows rescheduling of exams for various reasons whether you have a disability or not; are you unable to attend the exam? (I can't imagine my school letting me take exams in my dorm room, nor would I really want to; too many distractions.) On 12/7/16, Rod via BlindLaw wrote: > I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more interested > > in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is one I would > have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of mine attended > > a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam in his dorm > room, subject to the honor code. > > The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the > integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but > theirs. And they are not doing it. > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Jim McCarthy > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you > request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may > check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you > need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, > One > argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at > 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the > exam > in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue > argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Hello everyone, > > I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an > accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a > night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over > the > summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as > well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember > why > they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply > to any other exam. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > From legal at s.ai Wed Dec 7 20:44:43 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:44:43 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good enough reason? - Sai On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw wrote: > I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you > request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may > check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you > need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One > argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at > 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam > in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue > argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Hello everyone, > > I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an > accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a > night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the > summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as > well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why > they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply > to any other exam. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From jtfetter at yahoo.com Wed Dec 7 20:47:43 2016 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:47:43 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: <5554525C-B964-49FB-8B4E-2151EC09FE76@yahoo.com> I would have to agree. My law school has been very flexible with exam accommodations, even to the point of allowing me to take a longer exam on two consecutive days, if desired, or taking exams at home if convenient. Is that level of flexibility required by the ADA? No, but it certainly makes life easier. If you think that the denial of the accommodation will hurt your performance, and if you have a concrete reason for asking for a different accommodation that is related to your disability, then by all means fight this. Otherwise, you may be stuck with the accommodation your school offered. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Rod via BlindLaw wrote: > > I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more interested in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is one I would have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of mine attended a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam in his dorm room, subject to the honor code. > > The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but theirs. And they are not doing it. > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > > -----Original Message----- From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Jim McCarthy > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you > request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may > check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you > need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One > argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at > 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam > in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue > argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Hello everyone, > > I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an > accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a > night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the > summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as > well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why > they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply > to any other exam. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From chris.stewart at uky.edu Wed Dec 7 20:49:09 2016 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:49:09 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS Message-ID: Hi All, This may not be the optimal forum for this question, but I imagine plenty of other lawyers have needed to use a vpn to access their work computers from home. Today on my lunch break, I ran home, installed the program that the court uses for remoting in, and started playing around. I noticed a couple of things. First, JAWS sounded funny, as though a low-fidelity version of JAWS were being piped to my computer from the office, which may be what was happening. Does anyone know if there is a way to get the version of jaws running on my home computer to read the screen of my work computer? I tried shutting down JAWS in the remote window, but that only served to make everything go quiet. Second, once I was into the computer remotely and alt-tabbing around the various programs, I couldn't figure out how to get out. In other words, I understand that for sighted folks, they can still look and see the window which is their own computer, and when they're ready to end the session, they go back over to that window and close out the connection. But when I tried to alt-tab out of the remote session, it didn't work, and instead kept cycling me through the programs that were open on my work computer. If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. Very Best, Chris -- Chris K. Stewart, J.D. Ph: (502)457-1757 From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 20:49:31 2016 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:49:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: Well, perhaps; but she's asking to take the exam earlier, not later. On 12/7/16, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: > Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good > enough reason? > > - Sai > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > wrote: >> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >> One >> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >> at >> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >> exam >> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >> Jim McCarthy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >> an >> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >> a >> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >> the >> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >> for >> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >> why >> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >> apply >> to any other exam. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > From rfarber at jw.com Wed Dec 7 21:00:05 2016 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 21:00:05 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40E4A13@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com> Chris - It sounds like you are using Citrix and not VPN. I use VPN and except for a little slowness my home computer acts just like my office computer. Citrix on the other hand is run on a separate server and requires JAWS to be running on the Citrix server because you are actually opening the Citrix session on your computer in a separate window/session. I believe there are keys that allow you to switch between the Citrix session and your computer and to also use Citrix in full screen mode. However, because I find VPN to be substantially better than Citrix, I do not use Citrix, so I can't help you with the Citrix keystrokes. Randy -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:49 PM To: blindlaw Cc: Stewart, Christopher K Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS Hi All, This may not be the optimal forum for this question, but I imagine plenty of other lawyers have needed to use a vpn to access their work computers from home. Today on my lunch break, I ran home, installed the program that the court uses for remoting in, and started playing around. I noticed a couple of things. First, JAWS sounded funny, as though a low-fidelity version of JAWS were being piped to my computer from the office, which may be what was happening. Does anyone know if there is a way to get the version of jaws running on my home computer to read the screen of my work computer? I tried shutting down JAWS in the remote window, but that only served to make everything go quiet. Second, once I was into the computer remotely and alt-tabbing around the various programs, I couldn't figure out how to get out. In other words, I understand that for sighted folks, they can still look and see the window which is their own computer, and when they're ready to end the session, they go back over to that window and close out the connection. But when I tried to alt-tab out of the remote session, it didn't work, and instead kept cycling me through the programs that were open on my work computer. If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. Very Best, Chris -- Chris K. Stewart, J.D. Ph: (502)457-1757 _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 21:20:01 2016 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 16:20:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS In-Reply-To: <31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40E4A13@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com> References: <31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40E4A13@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com> Message-ID: <9DEED1F8-6C9B-4A6E-A7AF-87CECF1B94D0@gmail.com> I've had the same experience as Randy. I don't know if the situation has impooved, but when I last tried to use Citrix I was told that JARS did not work with Citrix on virtual machine. I don't know if this is what you are experiencing or not, but the change in sound quality is definitely familiar. My firm lets me use VPN instead. This is generally reserved for the IT staff here, but it does work well with JAWS, so I was given access. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 7, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Farber, Randy via BlindLaw wrote: > > Chris - > > It sounds like you are using Citrix and not VPN. I use VPN and except for a little slowness my home computer acts just like my office computer. Citrix on the other hand is run on a separate server and requires JAWS to be running on the Citrix server because you are actually opening the Citrix session on your computer in a separate window/session. I believe there are keys that allow you to switch between the Citrix session and your computer and to also use Citrix in full screen mode. However, because I find VPN to be substantially better than Citrix, I do not use Citrix, so I can't help you with the Citrix keystrokes. > > Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:49 PM > To: blindlaw > Cc: Stewart, Christopher K > Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS > > Hi All, > > This may not be the optimal forum for this question, but I imagine > plenty of other lawyers have needed to use a vpn to access their work > computers from home. Today on my lunch break, I ran home, installed > the program that the court uses for remoting in, and started playing > around. I noticed a couple of things. > > First, JAWS sounded funny, as though a low-fidelity version of JAWS > were being piped to my computer from the office, which may be what was > happening. Does anyone know if there is a way to get the version of > jaws running on my home computer to read the screen of my work > computer? I tried shutting down JAWS in the remote window, but that > only served to make everything go quiet. > > Second, once I was into the computer remotely and alt-tabbing around > the various programs, I couldn't figure out how to get out. In other > words, I understand that for sighted folks, they can still look and > see the window which is their own computer, and when they're ready to > end the session, they go back over to that window and close out the > connection. But when I tried to alt-tab out of the remote session, it > didn't work, and instead kept cycling me through the programs that > were open on my work computer. > > If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. > > Very Best, > Chris > > > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart, J.D. > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From rjmorrissey26 at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 02:04:23 2016 From: rjmorrissey26 at gmail.com (bob morrissey) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 21:04:23 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: <000601d250f7$65baf0a0$3130d1e0$@com> I had a similar experience when achieving Paralegal Certification at the University of New Haven. Strict adhereance to the honor code, but was given liberal accommodations when taking tests, including having the test prior to the rest of the class. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 3:17 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Rod Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more interested in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is one I would have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of mine attended a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam in his dorm room, subject to the honor code. The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but theirs. And they are not doing it. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Jim McCarthy Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM To: BlindLaw Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams Hello everyone, I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply to any other exam. Aimee Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjmorrissey26%40gmail. com From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Thu Dec 8 03:13:17 2016 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (mnowicki4 at icloud.com) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 21:13:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS In-Reply-To: <9DEED1F8-6C9B-4A6E-A7AF-87CECF1B94D0@gmail.com> References: <31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40E4A13@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com> <9DEED1F8-6C9B-4A6E-A7AF-87CECF1B94D0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0OHU00FHEJMAOO20@st11p00im-asmtp001.me.com> I never used Citrix, but I believe the JAWS Tandem shortcut for switching between the remote computer and the local computer is Ctrl Plus Alt plus Tab. I have no idea if the same command will work with Citrix, but it may be worth a try, especially if VPN is not an option. Michal Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Angie Matney via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 3:21 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Angie Matney Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS I've had the same experience as Randy. I don't know if the situation has impooved, but when I last tried to use Citrix I was told that JARS did not work with Citrix on virtual machine. I don't know if this is what you are experiencing or not, but the change in sound quality is definitely familiar. My firm lets me use VPN instead. This is generally reserved for the IT staff here, but it does work well with JAWS, so I was given access. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 7, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Farber, Randy via BlindLaw wrote: > > Chris - > > It sounds like you are using Citrix and not VPN. I use VPN and except for a little slowness my home computer acts just like my office computer. Citrix on the other hand is run on a separate server and requires JAWS to be running on the Citrix server because you are actually opening the Citrix session on your computer in a separate window/session. I believe there are keys that allow you to switch between the Citrix session and your computer and to also use Citrix in full screen mode. However, because I find VPN to be substantially better than Citrix, I do not use Citrix, so I can't help you with the Citrix keystrokes. > > Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:49 PM > To: blindlaw > Cc: Stewart, Christopher K > Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS > > Hi All, > > This may not be the optimal forum for this question, but I imagine > plenty of other lawyers have needed to use a vpn to access their work > computers from home. Today on my lunch break, I ran home, installed > the program that the court uses for remoting in, and started playing > around. I noticed a couple of things. > > First, JAWS sounded funny, as though a low-fidelity version of JAWS > were being piped to my computer from the office, which may be what was > happening. Does anyone know if there is a way to get the version of > jaws running on my home computer to read the screen of my work > computer? I tried shutting down JAWS in the remote window, but that > only served to make everything go quiet. > > Second, once I was into the computer remotely and alt-tabbing around > the various programs, I couldn't figure out how to get out. In other > words, I understand that for sighted folks, they can still look and > see the window which is their own computer, and when they're ready to > end the session, they go back over to that window and close out the > connection. But when I tried to alt-tab out of the remote session, it > didn't work, and instead kept cycling me through the programs that > were open on my work computer. > > If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. > > Very Best, > Chris > > > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart, J.D. > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From nmpbrat at aol.com Thu Dec 8 03:16:47 2016 From: nmpbrat at aol.com (nmpbrat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 22:16:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <158dc6eed9e-5b03-1186b@webprd-a55.mail.aol.com> Maybe I'm missing something.....but when I read her post, it sounds like to me she is not asking to take it early but rather the next business day. She says "I was given the option to take the exam early or the following business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for this exam and was denied." I think the school is saying she has to take it early rather than the next day. I agree with Sal, in that, it actually puts her at a disadvantage in terms of the amount of time she has to study compared to her peers. -----Original Message----- From: kelby carlson via BlindLaw To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: kelby carlson Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2016 3:52 pm Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams Well, perhaps; but she's asking to take the exam earlier, not later. On 12/7/16, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: > Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good > enough reason? > > - Sai > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > wrote: >> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >> One >> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >> at >> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >> exam >> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >> Jim McCarthy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >> an >> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >> a >> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >> the >> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >> for >> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >> why >> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >> apply >> to any other exam. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nmpbrat%40aol.com From legal at s.ai Thu Dec 8 03:48:26 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 22:48:26 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: <158dc6eed9e-5b03-1186b@webprd-a55.mail.aol.com> References: <158dc6eed9e-5b03-1186b@webprd-a55.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: That was my reading also. Sure, it's incidentally more time to study, but if you're willing to take it at the same time as others and it's the school that won't offer accommodated exam at that time, I think that's not on you. I don't think they can require you to take it earlier just because you want other accommodations. If they offer to do it, accommodated, at the same time as everyone else and you say no, you want it to be later — then I think that would count as an accommodation which needs some justification. I just don't think you need any disability justification for not wanting to take it earlier than other people. Accommodations are a one-way ratchet. - Sai On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:16 PM, Nicole Poston via BlindLaw wrote: > Maybe I'm missing something.....but when I read her post, it sounds like to me she is not asking to take it early but rather the next business day. She says "I was given the option to take the exam early or the following business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for this exam and was denied." > I think the school is saying she has to take it early rather than the next day. > I agree with Sal, in that, it actually puts her at a disadvantage in terms of the amount of time she has to study compared to her peers. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: kelby carlson via BlindLaw > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: kelby carlson > Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2016 3:52 pm > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Well, perhaps; but she's asking to take the exam earlier, not later. > > On 12/7/16, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good >> enough reason? >> >> - Sai >> >> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >>> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >>> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >>> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >>> One >>> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >>> at >>> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >>> exam >>> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >>> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >>> Jim McCarthy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >>> To: BlindLaw >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >>> an >>> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >>> a >>> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >>> the >>> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >>> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >>> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >>> for >>> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >>> why >>> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >>> apply >>> to any other exam. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nmpbrat%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From chris.stewart at uky.edu Thu Dec 8 14:24:43 2016 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 08:24:43 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] remote Desktop with JAWS Message-ID: Thanks for the responses. I spoke with IT, and we're definitely on VPN with a remote desktop protocol. I think that control + alt + tab may be the answer, but I won't be able to try it until I get home. Best, Chris On 12/8/16, blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send BlindLaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of BlindLaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Animal law fellowship | Animal Legal Defense Fund (Elizabeth Rene) > 2. Timing of Exams (Aimee Harwood) > 3. Re: Timing of Exams (Jim McCarthy) > 4. Re: ; Determining Page Numbers when Reading Cases in WestLaw > Next (Shannon Dillon) > 5. Re: Timing of Exams (Rod) > 6. Re: Timing of Exams (kelby carlson) > 7. Re: Timing of Exams (Sai) > 8. Re: Timing of Exams (James Fetter) > 9. Remote Desktop and JAWS (Stewart, Christopher K) > 10. Re: Timing of Exams (kelby carlson) > 11. Re: Remote Desktop and JAWS (Farber, Randy) > 12. Re: Remote Desktop and JAWS (Angie Matney) > 13. Re: Timing of Exams (bob morrissey) > 14. Re: Remote Desktop and JAWS (mnowicki4 at icloud.com) > 15. Re: Timing of Exams (nmpbrat at aol.com) > 16. Re: Timing of Exams (Sai) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 10:31:09 -0800 > From: Elizabeth Rene > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] Animal law fellowship | Animal Legal Defense Fund > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi all, > I'm passing along this exciting fellowship opportunity for new lawyers who > love animals. > Guide dog users, wouldn't it be great to get out there and work for your > partners' civil rights? > Animal Law is a developing new field where one could gain expertise and a > unique market niche. > Good luck! > Elizabeth > > http://aldf.org/resources/animal-law-events-opportunities/clerkships-internships-fellowships/id/2863/ > > > Elizabeth M Ren? > Attorney at Law > WSBA #10710 > KCBA #21824 > rene0373 at gmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:06:36 -0500 > From: Aimee Harwood > To: BlindLaw > Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello everyone, > > I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an > accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a > night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the > summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as > well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why > they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply > to any other exam. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:56:37 -0500 > From: "Jim McCarthy" > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you > request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may > check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you > need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, > One > argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at > 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the > exam > in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue > argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Hello everyone, > > I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an > accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a > night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over > the > summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as > well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember > why > they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply > to any other exam. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 12:14:07 -0800 > From: Shannon Dillon > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ; Determining Page Numbers when Reading Cases > in WestLaw Next > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Has anyone used the copy with citation Laura briefly mentions at the > end of her explanation? The last time I asked Thompson West about it, > it was not accessible. I think you have to select with the mouse. I > can't remember exactly the steps now but it was not something I was > able to simulate at the time. Does anyone have another experience? > > > On 12/7/16, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hi Krista, >> >> I will tell you my strategy, but I'm sure others use different ones. >> >> As Amy explained, the text of a Westlaw case has the pagenation to >> multiple reporters. These are usually called parallel citations. >> There can be two or sometimes three different reporters, and they are >> listed at the top. To distinguish the reporters, different numbers of >> asterisks are placed next to the page numbers associated with each >> respective reporter. Westlaw cases use a system of star pagenation, >> i.e., instead of having a one-to-one correspondence between a page in >> Westlaw and a print page as you noticed, the case will just mark where >> the pages for the various reporters change as you read through the >> case. >> >> The relevant report from the West National Reporter system is **ALMOST >> ALWAYS** the reporter to which you will cite, and it **ALMOST >> ALWAYS** has one asterisk next to it for purposes of star pagenation. >> The most common exception to this, at least in my experience, would be >> citations to recent Supreme Court opinions. Those opinions take about >> five years to make it into West's U.S. reports, meaning that recent >> opinions are typically cited to the Supreme Court Reporter. Normally, >> that reporter is marked by two stars, but in instances where there is >> no citation to the U.S. reporter yet, it is marked with only one. As >> an example, compare NLRB v. Noel Canning, 134 S. Ct. 2550 (not yet >> printed in U.S. reports) with Blair v. United States, 250 U.S. >> 273. >> >> My strategy for pinciting is clumsy, but it works. I simply find the >> text I want, then doa control+f and search for the next asterisk. >> making sure it is marked with the proper number of asterisks, I just >> count back by one. This method has its pitfalls. The most >> frustrating one is when you're citing something from the last page of >> the case. The most common mistake deals with making sure you know >> when you're citing a footnote. But, with practice, I have become >> quite quick at it. I've heard West has a "copy with citation" >> feature, but I've never used it. >> >> I hope this is helpful. This is written pre-coffee, so please feel >> free to contact me offlist if anything is confusing. >> >> Best of luck, >> Laura >> >> On 12/7/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> At the top of the case you'll find the list of reporters. Note the >>> number >>> of >>> stars preceding your preferred reporter. That will indicate the page >>> number >>> for that particular reporter. Hope that helps. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 6, 2016, at 11:30 PM, krista erickson via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> I've been using WestLaw Next to find and read cases for a class >>>> research project. We are limited to the cases we can cite in the >>>> project and have to pinpoint citations. Do any of you have suggestions >>>> for easily determining the correct page numbers that text from a case >>>> would appear on if reading cases in actual hard-bound books? The >>>> numbers preceeded by * in WestLaw Next don't appear to directly >>>> correspond to actual page numbers. Thanks. >>>> Krista >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > SHANNON L. DILLON > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:16:53 -0500 > From: "Rod" > To: "Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more interested > > in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is one I would > have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of mine attended > > a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam in his dorm > room, subject to the honor code. > > The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the > integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but > theirs. And they are not doing it. > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Jim McCarthy > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you > request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may > check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you > need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, > One > argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at > 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the > exam > in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue > argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Hello everyone, > > I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an > accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a > night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over > the > summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as > well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember > why > they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply > to any other exam. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:36:20 -0500 > From: kelby carlson > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Is there a particular reason you need the accommodation? Are law > school allows rescheduling of exams for various reasons whether you > have a disability or not; are you unable to attend the exam? (I can't > imagine my school letting me take exams in my dorm room, nor would I > really want to; too many distractions.) > > On 12/7/16, Rod via BlindLaw wrote: >> I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more >> interested >> >> in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is one I would >> have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of mine >> attended >> >> a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam in his dorm >> room, subject to the honor code. >> >> The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the >> integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but >> theirs. And they are not doing it. >> >> >> >> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Jim McCarthy >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >> One >> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >> at >> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >> exam >> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >> Jim McCarthy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >> an >> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >> a >> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >> the >> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >> for >> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >> why >> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >> apply >> to any other exam. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:44:43 -0500 > From: Sai > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good > enough reason? > > - Sai > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > wrote: >> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >> One >> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >> at >> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >> exam >> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >> Jim McCarthy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >> an >> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >> a >> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >> the >> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >> for >> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >> why >> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >> apply >> to any other exam. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:47:43 -0500 > From: James Fetter > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: <5554525C-B964-49FB-8B4E-2151EC09FE76 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I would have to agree. My law school has been very flexible with exam > accommodations, even to the point of allowing me to take a longer exam on > two consecutive days, if desired, or taking exams at home if convenient. Is > that level of flexibility required by the ADA? No, but it certainly makes > life easier. If you think that the denial of the accommodation will hurt > your performance, and if you have a concrete reason for asking for a > different accommodation that is related to your disability, then by all > means fight this. Otherwise, you may be stuck with the accommodation your > school offered. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Rod via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more >> interested in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is >> one I would have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of >> mine attended a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam >> in his dorm room, subject to the honor code. >> >> The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the >> integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but >> theirs. And they are not doing it. >> >> >> >> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Jim McCarthy >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >> One >> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >> at >> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >> exam >> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >> Jim McCarthy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >> an >> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >> a >> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >> the >> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >> for >> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >> why >> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >> apply >> to any other exam. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:49:09 -0600 > From: "Stewart, Christopher K" > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi All, > > This may not be the optimal forum for this question, but I imagine > plenty of other lawyers have needed to use a vpn to access their work > computers from home. Today on my lunch break, I ran home, installed > the program that the court uses for remoting in, and started playing > around. I noticed a couple of things. > > First, JAWS sounded funny, as though a low-fidelity version of JAWS > were being piped to my computer from the office, which may be what was > happening. Does anyone know if there is a way to get the version of > jaws running on my home computer to read the screen of my work > computer? I tried shutting down JAWS in the remote window, but that > only served to make everything go quiet. > > Second, once I was into the computer remotely and alt-tabbing around > the various programs, I couldn't figure out how to get out. In other > words, I understand that for sighted folks, they can still look and > see the window which is their own computer, and when they're ready to > end the session, they go back over to that window and close out the > connection. But when I tried to alt-tab out of the remote session, it > didn't work, and instead kept cycling me through the programs that > were open on my work computer. > > If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. > > Very Best, > Chris > > > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart, J.D. > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:49:31 -0500 > From: kelby carlson > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Well, perhaps; but she's asking to take the exam earlier, not later. > > On 12/7/16, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good >> enough reason? >> >> - Sai >> >> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >>> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >>> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >>> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >>> One >>> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >>> at >>> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >>> exam >>> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >>> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >>> Jim McCarthy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >>> To: BlindLaw >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >>> an >>> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >>> a >>> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >>> the >>> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >>> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >>> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >>> for >>> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >>> why >>> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >>> apply >>> to any other exam. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 21:00:05 +0000 > From: "Farber, Randy" > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: "Stewart, Christopher K" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS > Message-ID: > <31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40E4A13 at pdc-exch02.jwllp.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 > > Chris - > > It sounds like you are using Citrix and not VPN. I use VPN and except for > a little slowness my home computer acts just like my office computer. > Citrix on the other hand is run on a separate server and requires JAWS to be > running on the Citrix server because you are actually opening the Citrix > session on your computer in a separate window/session. I believe there are > keys that allow you to switch between the Citrix session and your computer > and to also use Citrix in full screen mode. However, because I find VPN to > be substantially better than Citrix, I do not use Citrix, so I can't help > you with the Citrix keystrokes. > > Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, > Christopher K via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:49 PM > To: blindlaw > Cc: Stewart, Christopher K > Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS > > Hi All, > > This may not be the optimal forum for this question, but I imagine > plenty of other lawyers have needed to use a vpn to access their work > computers from home. Today on my lunch break, I ran home, installed > the program that the court uses for remoting in, and started playing > around. I noticed a couple of things. > > First, JAWS sounded funny, as though a low-fidelity version of JAWS > were being piped to my computer from the office, which may be what was > happening. Does anyone know if there is a way to get the version of > jaws running on my home computer to read the screen of my work > computer? I tried shutting down JAWS in the remote window, but that > only served to make everything go quiet. > > Second, once I was into the computer remotely and alt-tabbing around > the various programs, I couldn't figure out how to get out. In other > words, I understand that for sighted folks, they can still look and > see the window which is their own computer, and when they're ready to > end the session, they go back over to that window and close out the > connection. But when I tried to alt-tab out of the remote session, it > didn't work, and instead kept cycling me through the programs that > were open on my work computer. > > If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. > > Very Best, > Chris > > > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart, J.D. > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 16:20:01 -0500 > From: Angie Matney > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS > Message-ID: <9DEED1F8-6C9B-4A6E-A7AF-87CECF1B94D0 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I've had the same experience as Randy. I don't know if the situation has > impooved, but when I last tried to use Citrix I was told that JARS did not > work with Citrix on virtual machine. I don't know if this is what you are > experiencing or not, but the change in sound quality is definitely familiar. > My firm lets me use VPN instead. This is generally reserved for the IT staff > here, but it does work well with JAWS, so I was given access. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 7, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Farber, Randy via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Chris - >> >> It sounds like you are using Citrix and not VPN. I use VPN and except >> for a little slowness my home computer acts just like my office computer. >> Citrix on the other hand is run on a separate server and requires JAWS to >> be running on the Citrix server because you are actually opening the >> Citrix session on your computer in a separate window/session. I believe >> there are keys that allow you to switch between the Citrix session and >> your computer and to also use Citrix in full screen mode. However, >> because I find VPN to be substantially better than Citrix, I do not use >> Citrix, so I can't help you with the Citrix keystrokes. >> >> Randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, >> Christopher K via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:49 PM >> To: blindlaw >> Cc: Stewart, Christopher K >> Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS >> >> Hi All, >> >> This may not be the optimal forum for this question, but I imagine >> plenty of other lawyers have needed to use a vpn to access their work >> computers from home. Today on my lunch break, I ran home, installed >> the program that the court uses for remoting in, and started playing >> around. I noticed a couple of things. >> >> First, JAWS sounded funny, as though a low-fidelity version of JAWS >> were being piped to my computer from the office, which may be what was >> happening. Does anyone know if there is a way to get the version of >> jaws running on my home computer to read the screen of my work >> computer? I tried shutting down JAWS in the remote window, but that >> only served to make everything go quiet. >> >> Second, once I was into the computer remotely and alt-tabbing around >> the various programs, I couldn't figure out how to get out. In other >> words, I understand that for sighted folks, they can still look and >> see the window which is their own computer, and when they're ready to >> end the session, they go back over to that window and close out the >> connection. But when I tried to alt-tab out of the remote session, it >> didn't work, and instead kept cycling me through the programs that >> were open on my work computer. >> >> If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. >> >> Very Best, >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris K. Stewart, J.D. >> Ph: >> (502)457-1757 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 21:04:23 -0500 > From: "bob morrissey" > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: <000601d250f7$65baf0a0$3130d1e0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I had a similar experience when achieving Paralegal Certification at the > University of New Haven. Strict adhereance to the honor code, but was > given > liberal accommodations when taking tests, including having the test prior > to > the rest of the class. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod via > BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 3:17 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Rod > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more interested > in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is one I would > have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of mine > attended > a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam in his dorm > room, subject to the honor code. > > The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the > integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but > theirs. And they are not doing it. > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Jim McCarthy > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you > request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may > check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you > need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, > One > argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at > 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the > exam > in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue > argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Hello everyone, > > I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an > accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a > night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over > the > summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as > well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember > why > they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply > to any other exam. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjmorrissey26%40gmail. > com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 21:13:17 -0600 > From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com > To: Angie Matney via BlindLaw > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS > Message-ID: <0OHU00FHEJMAOO20 at st11p00im-asmtp001.me.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I never used Citrix, but I believe the JAWS Tandem shortcut for switching > between the remote computer and the local computer is Ctrl Plus Alt plus > Tab. I have no idea if the same command will work with Citrix, but it may be > worth a try, especially if VPN is not an option. > > Michal > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Angie Matney via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 3:21 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Angie Matney > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS > > I've had the same experience as Randy. I don't know if the situation has > impooved, but when I last tried to use Citrix I was told that JARS did not > work with Citrix on virtual machine. I don't know if this is what you are > experiencing or not, but the change in sound quality is definitely familiar. > My firm lets me use VPN instead. This is generally reserved for the IT staff > here, but it does work well with JAWS, so I was given access. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 7, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Farber, Randy via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Chris - >> >> It sounds like you are using Citrix and not VPN. I use VPN and except >> for a little slowness my home computer acts just like my office computer. >> Citrix on the other hand is run on a separate server and requires JAWS to >> be running on the Citrix server because you are actually opening the >> Citrix session on your computer in a separate window/session. I believe >> there are keys that allow you to switch between the Citrix session and >> your computer and to also use Citrix in full screen mode. However, >> because I find VPN to be substantially better than Citrix, I do not use >> Citrix, so I can't help you with the Citrix keystrokes. >> >> Randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, >> Christopher K via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:49 PM >> To: blindlaw >> Cc: Stewart, Christopher K >> Subject: [blindlaw] Remote Desktop and JAWS >> >> Hi All, >> >> This may not be the optimal forum for this question, but I imagine >> plenty of other lawyers have needed to use a vpn to access their work >> computers from home. Today on my lunch break, I ran home, installed >> the program that the court uses for remoting in, and started playing >> around. I noticed a couple of things. >> >> First, JAWS sounded funny, as though a low-fidelity version of JAWS >> were being piped to my computer from the office, which may be what was >> happening. Does anyone know if there is a way to get the version of >> jaws running on my home computer to read the screen of my work >> computer? I tried shutting down JAWS in the remote window, but that >> only served to make everything go quiet. >> >> Second, once I was into the computer remotely and alt-tabbing around >> the various programs, I couldn't figure out how to get out. In other >> words, I understand that for sighted folks, they can still look and >> see the window which is their own computer, and when they're ready to >> end the session, they go back over to that window and close out the >> connection. But when I tried to alt-tab out of the remote session, it >> didn't work, and instead kept cycling me through the programs that >> were open on my work computer. >> >> If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. >> >> Very Best, >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris K. Stewart, J.D. >> Ph: >> (502)457-1757 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 22:16:47 -0500 > From: nmpbrat at aol.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: <158dc6eed9e-5b03-1186b at webprd-a55.mail.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Maybe I'm missing something.....but when I read her post, it sounds like to > me she is not asking to take it early but rather the next business day. She > says "I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied." > I think the school is saying she has to take it early rather than the next > day. > I agree with Sal, in that, it actually puts her at a disadvantage in terms > of the amount of time she has to study compared to her peers. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: kelby carlson via BlindLaw > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: kelby carlson > Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2016 3:52 pm > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Well, perhaps; but she's asking to take the exam earlier, not later. > > On 12/7/16, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good >> enough reason? >> >> - Sai >> >> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >>> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >>> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >>> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >>> One >>> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >>> at >>> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >>> exam >>> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >>> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >>> Jim McCarthy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >>> To: BlindLaw >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >>> an >>> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >>> a >>> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >>> the >>> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >>> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >>> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >>> for >>> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >>> why >>> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >>> apply >>> to any other exam. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nmpbrat%40aol.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 22:48:26 -0500 > From: Sai > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > That was my reading also. > > Sure, it's incidentally more time to study, but if you're willing to > take it at the same time as others and it's the school that won't > offer accommodated exam at that time, I think that's not on you. I > don't think they can require you to take it earlier just because you > want other accommodations. > > If they offer to do it, accommodated, at the same time as everyone > else and you say no, you want it to be later ? then I think that would > count as an accommodation which needs some justification. > > I just don't think you need any disability justification for not > wanting to take it earlier than other people. Accommodations are a > one-way ratchet. > > - Sai > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:16 PM, Nicole Poston via BlindLaw > wrote: >> Maybe I'm missing something.....but when I read her post, it sounds like >> to me she is not asking to take it early but rather the next business day. >> She says "I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for >> this exam and was denied." >> I think the school is saying she has to take it early rather than the next >> day. >> I agree with Sal, in that, it actually puts her at a disadvantage in terms >> of the amount of time she has to study compared to her peers. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: kelby carlson via BlindLaw >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: kelby carlson >> Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2016 3:52 pm >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> Well, perhaps; but she's asking to take the exam earlier, not later. >> >> On 12/7/16, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good >>> enough reason? >>> >>> - Sai >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>>> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that >>>> you >>>> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >>>> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If >>>> you >>>> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a >>>> staffer, >>>> One >>>> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >>>> at >>>> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >>>> exam >>>> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >>>> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >>>> Jim McCarthy >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >>>> To: BlindLaw >>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >>>> >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> >>>> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >>>> an >>>> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams >>>> is >>>> a >>>> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. >>>> Over >>>> the >>>> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >>>> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >>>> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >>>> for >>>> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not >>>> remember >>>> why >>>> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >>>> apply >>>> to any other exam. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nmpbrat%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of BlindLaw Digest, Vol 151, Issue 10 > ***************************************** > -- Chris K. Stewart, J.D. Ph: (502)457-1757 From awildheir at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 15:10:10 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 10:10:10 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: Hello Jim, I thank you for your response. I am not requesting the exam early. That is when the school says I must take the exam. The course is a night course and the other students will be starting at 6 PM. My initial request was to take it the following business day as had been allowed for an evening class I took over the summer. Exam time for that class was 6:00 p.m. as well. I hope that clarifies things a bit. I do have other disabilities and consideration but they are not the reason I would want to take an exam early. I actually feel it is against policy of the ADA and rehabilitation act to require and accommodated students to take their exam earlier then the rest of the class. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Rod via BlindLaw wrote: > > I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more interested in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is one I would have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of mine attended a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam in his dorm room, subject to the honor code. > > The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but theirs. And they are not doing it. > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > > -----Original Message----- From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Jim McCarthy > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you > request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may > check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you > need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One > argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at > 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam > in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue > argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Hello everyone, > > I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an > accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a > night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the > summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as > well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why > they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply > to any other exam. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 15:17:44 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 10:17:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: <5554525C-B964-49FB-8B4E-2151EC09FE76@yahoo.com> References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> <5554525C-B964-49FB-8B4E-2151EC09FE76@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello James, I have asserted my position on the exam timing. It appears that they do not wish to allow me any other time to take the exam. I have explained that the requiring me to take the exam early is in violation of The ADA and rehabilitation act. I received a second denial. The test is today in less than an hour. Should I take the exam but make it known officially that I object to and disagree with their position? What are your thoughts? Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:47 PM, James Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > I would have to agree. My law school has been very flexible with exam accommodations, even to the point of allowing me to take a longer exam on two consecutive days, if desired, or taking exams at home if convenient. Is that level of flexibility required by the ADA? No, but it certainly makes life easier. If you think that the denial of the accommodation will hurt your performance, and if you have a concrete reason for asking for a different accommodation that is related to your disability, then by all means fight this. Otherwise, you may be stuck with the accommodation your school offered. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Rod via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I hate to say this, Amy, but it appears that your school is more interested in failing than educating you. This kind of accommodation is one I would have routinely received with proper justification. A friend of mine attended a different law school and they allowed him to take his exam in his dorm room, subject to the honor code. >> >> The school can easily place sufficient safeguards to insure that the integrity of the exam is preserved. This is not your responsibility, but theirs. And they are not doing it. >> >> >> >> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:56 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Jim McCarthy >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One >> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at >> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam >> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >> Jim McCarthy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an >> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a >> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the >> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for >> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why >> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply >> to any other exam. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 15:19:30 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 10:19:30 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: Hello Sai, That does not suffice in their opinion. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: > > Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good > enough reason? > > - Sai > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > wrote: >> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One >> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at >> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam >> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >> Jim McCarthy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an >> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a >> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the >> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for >> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why >> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply >> to any other exam. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 16:04:46 2016 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 11:04:46 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: is it a violation of the ADA? How? In law school, students had to get exam schedules shifted around for all sorts of reasons, from family emergencies to falling unexpectedly ill to simply having three exams scheduled during three consecutive time periods. Sometimes the exam was rescheduled for a later date, sometimes for an earlier date. If there's ADA/Rehab Act caselaw that limits the school's discretion to schedule exams based on accommodation requests, I'd be interested to hear it. I'd also be interested to hear why they couldn't just have you start on the same day but with an earlier start time, assuming additional time is what's causing the scheduling issue. If the exam, say, runs from 6p-8p, and an accommodation involves double time, why couldn't the exam just run from 4p-8p? Perhaps this is a scenario to explore going forward, if it works feasibly with your schedule. Laura On 12/8/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Hello Sai, > > That does not suffice in their opinion. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good >> enough reason? >> >> - Sai >> >> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >>> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >>> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >>> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >>> One >>> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >>> at >>> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >>> exam >>> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >>> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >>> Jim McCarthy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >>> To: BlindLaw >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >>> an >>> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >>> a >>> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >>> the >>> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >>> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >>> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >>> for >>> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >>> why >>> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >>> apply >>> to any other exam. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From legal at s.ai Thu Dec 8 16:04:53 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 11:04:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: IMHO, not as legal advice, their opinion is wrong and illegal, and you should get a nice ADA lawyer to write them a very polite nastygram explaining why and insisting on your right to not be discriminated against. However, given that it's in an hour, I'd suggest you take it now. If you lose that fight at least you'll have something, though possibly a lower score than you would have had with the normal amount of time to study. If you win, you can ask that the exam you take now be thrown out and you get to re-test. In other words, it's curable on appeal, but you're better off hedging it. My personal opinion, though. - Sai On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Hello Sai, > > That does not suffice in their opinion. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good >> enough reason? >> >> - Sai >> >> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >>> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >>> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >>> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One >>> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at >>> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam >>> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >>> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >>> Jim McCarthy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >>> To: BlindLaw >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an >>> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a >>> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the >>> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >>> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >>> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for >>> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why >>> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply >>> to any other exam. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 16:11:12 2016 From: shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com (Shelley Richards) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 11:11:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: Can they give the exam at a different time? Yes they could, but if you are asking whether or not they are obligated to do so, well that is different. They would not be obligated to do so unless it were determined that taking the exam at a different time is a reasonable accomidation related to your disability. My college offered students the opportunity to take exams at different times with a written request which needed approval, and in that case a disabled student would be held to the same standards as any other student seaking such approval. However, if you are asking to take the exam at a different time as an accomidation for your disability then the school needs to determine whether or not the request is a reasonable accomidation. My law school never allowed me to take exams on different days, but for night classes where the exam started at 6 PM they allowed me to start early, and my allotted time would end at the same time as everybody else. They did not not want to ask either me or a proctor to stay that late into the night so starting early was the preferred solution. The concern they are generally weighing against your request is that, if you take the exam early you now know the questions and could let others know what they are intentionally or not, or if you take the exam late then there are a number of other students who know the questions and chances are even higher that someone might, intentionally or not, let you know what the questions are. Think about it, the school has to not only trust that all of the other people in the class will keep the questions from you, but they also have to trust that you will not happen to overhear a conversation about the exam between other students which may give you some or all information about 1 or more questions. Even if you have absolutely no bad intentions, it is hard to be able to guarantee you will not accidentally overhear others talking about an exam which you have not taken yet. This is not to say a school should never allow a student to take an exam later, but there is a very legitimate concern which they need to weigh against the reasonableness of the request. They could have problems if you are given an advantage just as much as they could have problems if they put you at a disadvantage. It looks like it may be to late for this exam, but next time I would talk to them about how exactly taking the exam at the scheduled time would put you at a disadvantage, for example you would be testing until an unreasonable hour of the night, and do your best to work out a solution while making it clear that you understand their concerns about you now being given an advantage over other students. Some schools will always be more and less strict about their exam policies, and they all have the right to be as strict or lax as they choose as long as they treat all students the same way with regard to exam policy. If you are at a school which is more strict about enforcing exam policy with no acception then you are going to need to make it much clearer to them why the accomidation is a reasonable request related to your disability. A more relaxed school may not care as much about other concerns, but neither school would be violating the law so long as they provide enough accomidation to create an equal playing field, and treat disabled students the same as other students when being more or less strict about enforcement of the exam policy. On 12/8/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Hello Sai, > > That does not suffice in their opinion. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good >> enough reason? >> >> - Sai >> >> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >>> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >>> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >>> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >>> One >>> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >>> at >>> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >>> exam >>> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >>> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >>> Jim McCarthy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >>> To: BlindLaw >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >>> an >>> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >>> a >>> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >>> the >>> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >>> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >>> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >>> for >>> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >>> why >>> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >>> apply >>> to any other exam. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9%40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com From ttomasi at driowa.org Thu Dec 8 16:16:49 2016 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 16:16:49 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> , Message-ID: <36EB8182-963C-40D6-A51F-9AD941B53C84@driowa.org> I agree with Laura on these issues. Schools have a great deal of discretion in scheduling exams, and a disability has little to do with this absent good cause. School exam policies give them leeway to reschedule for a variety of reasons. Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:06 AM, Sai via BlindLaw > wrote: IMHO, not as legal advice, their opinion is wrong and illegal, and you should get a nice ADA lawyer to write them a very polite nastygram explaining why and insisting on your right to not be discriminated against. However, given that it's in an hour, I'd suggest you take it now. If you lose that fight at least you'll have something, though possibly a lower score than you would have had with the normal amount of time to study. If you win, you can ask that the exam you take now be thrown out and you get to re-test. In other words, it's curable on appeal, but you're better off hedging it. My personal opinion, though. - Sai On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > wrote: Hello Sai, That does not suffice in their opinion. Aimee Sent from my iPhone On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Sai via BlindLaw > wrote: Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good enough reason? - Sai On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > wrote: I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, One argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the exam in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM To: BlindLaw Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams Hello everyone, I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over the summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember why they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply to any other exam. Aimee Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 17:29:31 2016 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 12:29:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: <36EB8182-963C-40D6-A51F-9AD941B53C84@driowa.org> References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> <36EB8182-963C-40D6-A51F-9AD941B53C84@driowa.org> Message-ID: also, let's not forget that taking exams later comes with its own set of "disadvantages," as it's harder (or impossible) to study with a study group. This is why, like Shelley, I think trying your hardest to take the exam on the same original day is the best strategy. It nott only ameliorates all the legitimate concerns Shelley mentioned, but also allows the student the same opportunities to benefit from study groups (not to mention getting to speak with professors). On 12/8/16, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw wrote: > I agree with Laura on these issues. Schools have a great deal of discretion > in scheduling exams, and a disability has little to do with this absent good > cause. School exam policies give them leeway to reschedule for a variety of > reasons. > > Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. > Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com > Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. > > On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:06 AM, Sai via BlindLaw > > wrote: > > IMHO, not as legal advice, their opinion is wrong and illegal, and you > should get a nice ADA lawyer to write them a very polite nastygram > explaining why and insisting on your right to not be discriminated > against. > > However, given that it's in an hour, I'd suggest you take it now. > > If you lose that fight at least you'll have something, though possibly > a lower score than you would have had with the normal amount of time > to study. > > If you win, you can ask that the exam you take now be thrown out and > you get to re-test. > > In other words, it's curable on appeal, but you're better off hedging it. > > My personal opinion, though. > > - Sai > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > > wrote: > Hello Sai, > > That does not suffice in their opinion. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Sai via BlindLaw > > wrote: > > Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good > enough reason? > > - Sai > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw > > wrote: > I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you > request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may > check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you > need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, > One > argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts at > 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the > exam > in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue > argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams > > Hello everyone, > > I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule an > accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is a > night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over > the > summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as > well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following > business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same for > this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember > why > they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not apply > to any other exam. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From legal at s.ai Thu Dec 8 17:33:16 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 12:33:16 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: I think my reading of the situation is a little different than yours, and that's what's causing the difference of opinion, rather than a disagreement about the principles. So in the spirit of law school testing (smile), here's my summary of the material facts: The poster would be happy to take the exam at the ordinary time given to all other students. However, the school is requiring them to take it at an earlier time than everyone else, solely because they requested accommodations. Previously, when the test couldn't be accommodated at the same time as everyone else, they took it the next day instead, which was fine with everyone. I'm assuming that the earlier time is significant enough to be a substantial harm in some way that's unrelated to disability (they haven't said how much earlier it is). If I'm wrong about any of that, my argument doesn't hold. In particular, I think something significant I'm interpreting differently than others is that the poster is not per se requesting to take it later than everyone else. They'd be fine to take it at the normal time, but the school won't let them do that, so it's a forced choice between earlier or later. So, suppose a more extreme version: what if the school were to say that they will only give accommodated testing a full week before everyone else's test? Surely that is obviously improper; they can't force test takers to have less time to study merely because of a need for unrelated accommodations. Or suppose the poster has a 9-5 job, the normal test is at 6pm, and the school wants to only offer accommodated testing at 3pm. That wouldn't really affect study time, but it could easily harm the job, resulting in lost wages or other problems. I don't think it's *categorically* illegal for an accommodated test to be given earlier. As Laura said, starting a test earlier could easily be part of a reasonable negotiation, e.g. to avoid it going too late. If it's a minor amount that doesn't impair other things, then I don't see a problem with it. I was assuming it's earlier enough to pose some sort of significant problem, because otherwise the poster wouldn't have complained about it. FWIW, LSAC's accommodated testing policy is that accommodated tests are all either at the same time as everyone else, or shortly after. I think that's true of everything else I've heard of. It was true for my own accommodations in grad school. I'm not aware of any case law either way on this, but I've only done a quick search in google scholar, and this is hardly an area of expertise. If any of you know of similar case law either way I'd be interested to read it. - Sai On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Shelley Richards via BlindLaw wrote: > Can they give the exam at a different time? Yes they could, but if you > are asking whether or not they are obligated to do so, well that is > different. They would not be obligated to do so unless it were > determined that taking the exam at a different time is a reasonable > accomidation related to your disability. My college offered students > the opportunity to take exams at different times with a written > request which needed approval, and in that case a disabled student > would be held to the same standards as any other student seaking such > approval. However, if you are asking to take the exam at a different > time as an accomidation for your disability then the school needs to > determine whether or not the request is a reasonable accomidation. My > law school never allowed me to take exams on different days, but for > night classes where the exam started at 6 PM they allowed me to start > early, and my allotted time would end at the same time as everybody > else. They did not not want to ask either me or a proctor to stay > that late into the night so starting early was the preferred solution. > The concern they are generally weighing against your request is that, > if you take the exam early you now know the questions and could let > others know what they are intentionally or not, or if you take the > exam late then there are a number of other students who know the > questions and chances are even higher that someone might, > intentionally or not, let you know what the questions are. Think > about it, the school has to not only trust that all of the other > people in the class will keep the questions from you, but they also > have to trust that you will not happen to overhear a conversation > about the exam between other students which may give you some or all > information about 1 or more questions. Even if you have absolutely no > bad intentions, it is hard to be able to guarantee you will not > accidentally overhear others talking about an exam which you have not > taken yet. This is not to say a school should never allow a student > to take an exam later, but there is a very legitimate concern which > they need to weigh against the reasonableness of the request. They > could have problems if you are given an advantage just as much as they > could have problems if they put you at a disadvantage. It looks like > it may be to late for this exam, but next time I would talk to them > about how exactly taking the exam at the scheduled time would put you > at a disadvantage, for example you would be testing until an > unreasonable hour of the night, and do your best to work out a > solution while making it clear that you understand their concerns > about you now being given an advantage over other students. > Some schools will always be more and less strict about their exam > policies, and they all have the right to be as strict or lax as they > choose as long as they treat all students the same way with regard to > exam policy. If you are at a school which is more strict about > enforcing exam policy with no acception then you are going to need to > make it much clearer to them why the accomidation is a reasonable > request related to your disability. A more relaxed school may not > care as much about other concerns, but neither school would be > violating the law so long as they provide enough accomidation to > create an equal playing field, and treat disabled students the same as > other students when being more or less strict about enforcement of the > exam policy. > > On 12/8/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hello Sai, >> >> That does not suffice in their opinion. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good >>> enough reason? >>> >>> - Sai >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>>> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >>>> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >>>> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >>>> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >>>> One >>>> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >>>> at >>>> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >>>> exam >>>> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >>>> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >>>> Jim McCarthy >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >>>> To: BlindLaw >>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >>>> >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> >>>> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >>>> an >>>> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >>>> a >>>> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >>>> the >>>> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >>>> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >>>> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >>>> for >>>> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >>>> why >>>> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >>>> apply >>>> to any other exam. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Thank You > Shelley Palmadessa > shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From angie.matney at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 18:23:51 2016 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 13:23:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams In-Reply-To: References: <3C67CEB3-8781-4E2E-95C6-66B55387D9A9@gmail.com> <01d401d250c4$057bfeb0$1073fc10$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: Some good points. But the school wouldn't be obligated to accommodate a job, just the person's disability. Certainly, one would hope a school would take concerns such as lost wages into account when ossible, they are not legally obligated to take a work schedule into consideration. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 8, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: > > I think my reading of the situation is a little different than yours, > and that's what's causing the difference of opinion, rather than a > disagreement about the principles. > > So in the spirit of law school testing (smile), here's my summary of > the material facts: > > The poster would be happy to take the exam at the ordinary time given > to all other students. However, the school is requiring them to take > it at an earlier time than everyone else, solely because they > requested accommodations. > > Previously, when the test couldn't be accommodated at the same time as > everyone else, they took it the next day instead, which was fine with > everyone. > > I'm assuming that the earlier time is significant enough to be a > substantial harm in some way that's unrelated to disability (they > haven't said how much earlier it is). > > If I'm wrong about any of that, my argument doesn't hold. > > In particular, I think something significant I'm interpreting > differently than others is that the poster is not per se requesting to > take it later than everyone else. They'd be fine to take it at the > normal time, but the school won't let them do that, so it's a forced > choice between earlier or later. > > > So, suppose a more extreme version: what if the school were to say > that they will only give accommodated testing a full week before > everyone else's test? Surely that is obviously improper; they can't > force test takers to have less time to study merely because of a need > for unrelated accommodations. > > Or suppose the poster has a 9-5 job, the normal test is at 6pm, and > the school wants to only offer accommodated testing at 3pm. That > wouldn't really affect study time, but it could easily harm the job, > resulting in lost wages or other problems. > > I don't think it's *categorically* illegal for an accommodated test to > be given earlier. As Laura said, starting a test earlier could easily > be part of a reasonable negotiation, e.g. to avoid it going too late. > > If it's a minor amount that doesn't impair other things, then I don't > see a problem with it. I was assuming it's earlier enough to pose some > sort of significant problem, because otherwise the poster wouldn't > have complained about it. > > > FWIW, LSAC's accommodated testing policy is that accommodated tests > are all either at the same time as everyone else, or shortly after. I > think that's true of everything else I've heard of. It was true for my > own accommodations in grad school. > > I'm not aware of any case law either way on this, but I've only done a > quick search in google scholar, and this is hardly an area of > expertise. If any of you know of similar case law either way I'd be > interested to read it. > > - Sai > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Shelley Richards via BlindLaw > wrote: >> Can they give the exam at a different time? Yes they could, but if you >> are asking whether or not they are obligated to do so, well that is >> different. They would not be obligated to do so unless it were >> determined that taking the exam at a different time is a reasonable >> accomidation related to your disability. My college offered students >> the opportunity to take exams at different times with a written >> request which needed approval, and in that case a disabled student >> would be held to the same standards as any other student seaking such >> approval. However, if you are asking to take the exam at a different >> time as an accomidation for your disability then the school needs to >> determine whether or not the request is a reasonable accomidation. My >> law school never allowed me to take exams on different days, but for >> night classes where the exam started at 6 PM they allowed me to start >> early, and my allotted time would end at the same time as everybody >> else. They did not not want to ask either me or a proctor to stay >> that late into the night so starting early was the preferred solution. >> The concern they are generally weighing against your request is that, >> if you take the exam early you now know the questions and could let >> others know what they are intentionally or not, or if you take the >> exam late then there are a number of other students who know the >> questions and chances are even higher that someone might, >> intentionally or not, let you know what the questions are. Think >> about it, the school has to not only trust that all of the other >> people in the class will keep the questions from you, but they also >> have to trust that you will not happen to overhear a conversation >> about the exam between other students which may give you some or all >> information about 1 or more questions. Even if you have absolutely no >> bad intentions, it is hard to be able to guarantee you will not >> accidentally overhear others talking about an exam which you have not >> taken yet. This is not to say a school should never allow a student >> to take an exam later, but there is a very legitimate concern which >> they need to weigh against the reasonableness of the request. They >> could have problems if you are given an advantage just as much as they >> could have problems if they put you at a disadvantage. It looks like >> it may be to late for this exam, but next time I would talk to them >> about how exactly taking the exam at the scheduled time would put you >> at a disadvantage, for example you would be testing until an >> unreasonable hour of the night, and do your best to work out a >> solution while making it clear that you understand their concerns >> about you now being given an advantage over other students. >> Some schools will always be more and less strict about their exam >> policies, and they all have the right to be as strict or lax as they >> choose as long as they treat all students the same way with regard to >> exam policy. If you are at a school which is more strict about >> enforcing exam policy with no acception then you are going to need to >> make it much clearer to them why the accomidation is a reasonable >> request related to your disability. A more relaxed school may not >> care as much about other concerns, but neither school would be >> violating the law so long as they provide enough accomidation to >> create an equal playing field, and treat disabled students the same as >> other students when being more or less strict about enforcement of the >> exam policy. >> >>> On 12/8/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Hello Sai, >>> >>> That does not suffice in their opinion. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Isn't "I want to have as much time to study as everyone else" a good >>>> enough reason? >>>> >>>> - Sai >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>>> I think the issue becomes what is the disability-related reason that you >>>>> request the earlier exam? It seems possible to me that law students may >>>>> check in electronically and check out the same way when finished. If you >>>>> need to pick up the exam from a staff person and return it to a staffer, >>>>> One >>>>> argument seems to be that if you get double time on an exam that starts >>>>> at >>>>> 6:00 pm and normal is 3 hours, you get 6, which means that you turn the >>>>> exam >>>>> in at midnight. Otherwise, it probably has to be some kind of fatigue >>>>> argument connecting to blindness and or other documented disabilities. >>>>> Jim McCarthy >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:07 PM >>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Timing of Exams >>>>> >>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I have a question regarding exams. Are universities allowed to schedule >>>>> an >>>>> accommodated exam earlier than the rest of the class? One of my exams is >>>>> a >>>>> night class. The rest of the class will take their exam at 6:00 PM. Over >>>>> the >>>>> summer, I also took an evening class and the exam started at 6:00 PM as >>>>> well. I was given the option to take the exam early or the following >>>>> business day. I chose the following business day. I requested the same >>>>> for >>>>> this exam and was denied. The reason given was that they do not remember >>>>> why >>>>> they gave those options for that particular exam and that it did not >>>>> apply >>>>> to any other exam. >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Thank You >> Shelley Palmadessa >> shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Dec 8 22:21:47 2016 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 22:21:47 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Rare and Exciting Deputy Attorney General Position In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Linda Nakamura [mailto:LindaP2 at atg.wa.gov] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 2:11 PM To: Diversity Stakeholders Subject: [diversity-stakeholders] Rare and Exciting Deputy Attorney General Position Importance: High At the Washington State Attorney General's Office, we aspire to be the best public law office in the nation. We are committed to providing excellent, independent, and ethical legal services to the State of Washington and to protecting the rights of its people. It is essential to our mission to create and maintain an office that is diverse, respectful, inclusive and composed of the best legal talent available. If you share our vision and have a desire to do important work that makes a difference for our community, then we invite you to consider applying for the following management attorney opportunity. Deputy Attorney General Position in Olympia (DL: 12/19/16) In addition to this top-management opportunity, there are a number of other terrific opportunities available as well. We look forward to entertaining your application! For questions about the particular position, please don't hesitate to contact the listed contact for each position. For information about the AGO or general recruitment questions, please contact Linda Nakamura at 206-464-6446 or Linda.Nakamura at atg.wa.gov. To subscribe to the Office's attorney employment listserv, click here. Linda Nakamura Linda Nakamura Attorney Recruitment Administrator Washington State Attorney General's Office 800 Fifth Avenue, Suite 2000 Seattle, WA 98104 (206) 464-6446 The Attorney General's Office respects and encourages diversity in the work force. The Office of the Attorney General is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, marital status, sexual orientation, gender identity diversity, age, honorably discharged veteran, veteran status, or the presence of any sensory, mental or physical disability or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability. Persons requiring reasonable accommodation in the application process or requiring any information in an alternative format may contact Tracy Robinson at 360-586-7691 or TTY format at 360-664-6211. --- You are currently subscribed to diversity-stakeholders as: noel.nightingale at ed.gov. To unsubscribe click here: http://list.wsba.org/u?id=9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389&n=T&l=diversity-stakeholders&o=171633 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-171633-9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389 at list.wsba.org If you have any questions, or wish to change your email address, please contact the WSBA List Administrator. From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 22:41:11 2016 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 22:41:11 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Rare and Exciting Deputy Attorney General Position In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/8/16, Nightingale, Noel via BlindLaw wrote: > > > From: Linda Nakamura [mailto:LindaP2 at atg.wa.gov] > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 2:11 PM > To: Diversity Stakeholders > Subject: [diversity-stakeholders] Rare and Exciting Deputy Attorney General > Position > Importance: High > > At the Washington State Attorney General's Office, we aspire to be the best > public law office in the nation. We are committed to providing excellent, > independent, and ethical legal services to the State of Washington and to > protecting the rights of its people. It is essential to our mission to > create and maintain an office that is diverse, respectful, inclusive and > composed of the best legal talent available. If you share our vision and > have a desire to do important work that makes a difference for our > community, then we invite you to consider applying for the following > management attorney opportunity. > > Deputy Attorney General Position in Olympia (DL: > 12/19/16) > > In addition to this top-management opportunity, there are a number of other > terrific > opportunities > available as well. > > We look forward to entertaining your application! For questions about the > particular position, please don't hesitate to contact the listed contact for > each position. For information about the AGO or general recruitment > questions, please contact Linda Nakamura at 206-464-6446 or > Linda.Nakamura at atg.wa.gov. To subscribe > to the Office's attorney employment listserv, click > here. > > > Linda Nakamura > Linda Nakamura > Attorney Recruitment Administrator > Washington State Attorney General's Office > 800 Fifth Avenue, Suite 2000 > Seattle, WA 98104 > (206) 464-6446 > > > The Attorney General's Office respects and encourages diversity in the work > force. The Office of the Attorney General is an equal opportunity employer > and does not discriminate on the basis of race, creed, color, national > origin, sex, marital status, sexual orientation, gender identity diversity, > age, honorably discharged veteran, veteran status, or the presence of any > sensory, mental or physical disability or the use of a trained dog guide or > service animal by a person with a disability. Persons requiring reasonable > accommodation in the application process or requiring any information in an > alternative format may contact Tracy Robinson at 360-586-7691 or TTY format > at 360-664-6211. > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to diversity-stakeholders as: > noel.nightingale at ed.gov. > > To unsubscribe click here: > http://list.wsba.org/u?id=9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389&n=T&l=diversity-stakeholders&o=171633 > > (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) > > or send a blank email to > leave-171633-9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389 at list.wsba.org > > If you have any questions, or wish to change your email address, please > contact the WSBA List > Administrator. > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From awildheir at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 09:29:46 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 04:29:46 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ; Determining Page Numbers when Reading Cases in WestLaw Next In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Shannon, I use Lexis and Westlaw mobile primarily on my iPhone and iPad. I have discovered that a double tap and hold at the top of the case on the court information just under the case name will bring up a couple "Menu Items" similar to what pops up when you highlight text on your phone or iPad. One option is coffee with citation. Oh wait, that is copy with citation isn't it! Guess I'm the one in need of coffee with my citations. Lol! Any way... back to what I was saying. I always make sure to select my preferred reporter before I double-tap and hold to copy the citation. For your viewing pleasure, I have included a sample of what the above or sa. The first line is just a capital W and capital L. My expert guess is that for Westlaw :-). There's a blank line followed by the citation. The mobile version does not include any formatting such as underlines or italics nor is there a period at the end of the parenthetical. All other punctuation and spacing appear to be ok. WL Com. v. Kling, 731 A.2d 145 (Pa.Super.,1999) Once I've decided to use a case, I like to go ahead and prepare different forms of the citation in a file. I find it much easier to copy from my file containing all the cases and their corresponding short citations and paste the correct citation or short citation into my document. In doing this, I only have to change the pinpoint when necessary. My previous roommate gave me that little gem of an idea. Hope this helps. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:14 PM, Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw wrote: > > Has anyone used the copy with citation Laura briefly mentions at the > end of her explanation? The last time I asked Thompson West about it, > it was not accessible. I think you have to select with the mouse. I > can't remember exactly the steps now but it was not something I was > able to simulate at the time. Does anyone have another experience? > > >> On 12/7/16, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hi Krista, >> >> I will tell you my strategy, but I'm sure others use different ones. >> >> As Amy explained, the text of a Westlaw case has the pagenation to >> multiple reporters. These are usually called parallel citations. >> There can be two or sometimes three different reporters, and they are >> listed at the top. To distinguish the reporters, different numbers of >> asterisks are placed next to the page numbers associated with each >> respective reporter. Westlaw cases use a system of star pagenation, >> i.e., instead of having a one-to-one correspondence between a page in >> Westlaw and a print page as you noticed, the case will just mark where >> the pages for the various reporters change as you read through the >> case. >> >> The relevant report from the West National Reporter system is **ALMOST >> ALWAYS** the reporter to which you will cite, and it **ALMOST >> ALWAYS** has one asterisk next to it for purposes of star pagenation. >> The most common exception to this, at least in my experience, would be >> citations to recent Supreme Court opinions. Those opinions take about >> five years to make it into West's U.S. reports, meaning that recent >> opinions are typically cited to the Supreme Court Reporter. Normally, >> that reporter is marked by two stars, but in instances where there is >> no citation to the U.S. reporter yet, it is marked with only one. As >> an example, compare NLRB v. Noel Canning, 134 S. Ct. 2550 (not yet >> printed in U.S. reports) with Blair v. United States, 250 U.S. >> 273. >> >> My strategy for pinciting is clumsy, but it works. I simply find the >> text I want, then doa control+f and search for the next asterisk. >> making sure it is marked with the proper number of asterisks, I just >> count back by one. This method has its pitfalls. The most >> frustrating one is when you're citing something from the last page of >> the case. The most common mistake deals with making sure you know >> when you're citing a footnote. But, with practice, I have become >> quite quick at it. I've heard West has a "copy with citation" >> feature, but I've never used it. >> >> I hope this is helpful. This is written pre-coffee, so please feel >> free to contact me offlist if anything is confusing. >> >> Best of luck, >> Laura >> >>> On 12/7/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> At the top of the case you'll find the list of reporters. Note the number >>> of >>> stars preceding your preferred reporter. That will indicate the page >>> number >>> for that particular reporter. Hope that helps. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 6, 2016, at 11:30 PM, krista erickson via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> I've been using WestLaw Next to find and read cases for a class >>>> research project. We are limited to the cases we can cite in the >>>> project and have to pinpoint citations. Do any of you have suggestions >>>> for easily determining the correct page numbers that text from a case >>>> would appear on if reading cases in actual hard-bound books? The >>>> numbers preceeded by * in WestLaw Next don't appear to directly >>>> correspond to actual page numbers. Thanks. >>>> Krista >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com > > > -- > SHANNON L. DILLON > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From jlynnbarrow at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 16:29:26 2016 From: jlynnbarrow at gmail.com (Jen Barrow) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 11:29:26 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Sighted Assistance at Work Message-ID: <00a001d25239$695c35f0$3c14a1d0$@gmail.com> Hi All, For those of you who work for legal nonprofits with limited budgets, what arrangements do you make to get the reader assistance you need? Does the existing administrative staff provide your accommodations? This is what we do at my organization, but it is not working well because our secretaries are already stretched with supporting dozens of attorneys. I'm brainstorming possible solutions to suggest to management. Did your nonprofit hire additional administrative staff? Or do you use any combination of law student support and volunteers? Thanks, Jen From awildheir at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 21:20:38 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 16:20:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School In-Reply-To: <001201d24c09$36f41c30$a4dc5490$@gmail.com> References: <001201d24c09$36f41c30$a4dc5490$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Luis, I know a student currently attending Syracuse law. I have also spoken with the professor over the disability clinic regarding my situations at my current school. From what I understand The student currently attending has had a fairly good experience. As I said Much better than I have had. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2016, at 2:29 PM, Luis Mendez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Good afternoon Aimee and other list members: > > Just curious, what is it about Syracuse that in your opinion makes it receptive to blind students. By way of full disclosure, I was the first blind student at the Syracuse law school. That was back in the dinosaur days, before computers and electronic research. On the whole the school did work with me to accommodate my needs as much as possible under the circumstances. > > Luis > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 12:54 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blindness and Choosing A School > > I would highly recommend Syracuse. I wish I had applied there. My law school has not been very accommodating nor has the atmosphere been welcoming of a blind student. Maybe it is just too small. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 30, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I'm interested in the same questions as well, since the responses I've >> gotten from schools about accommodations has been a generic "of course >> we'll obey the ADA", rather than "these are kinds of accommodations we >> could offer you". >> >> That makes me concerned about what that'll turn out to be in >> actuality, especially at highly ranked schools that might have a >> culture of "if you're smart or got good grades / test scores before, >> then you must not be disabled enough to need accommodations". >> >> This is especially a concern when my disabilities are very rare and >> poorly diagnosed, so of course must not exist. (I wonder how many >> fully sighted people have worn through multiple high-mileage cane tips >> before… ) >> >> So, I can't answer what you actually asked, but am definitely >> interested in reading responses, as I'm in a similar position. >> >> - Sai >> >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> Hi, all, >>> >>> I don't have to begin applying to law schools until June, but I'm >>> starting to get a list of them together so that I'm prepared for the >>> various application requirements in advance. >>> >>> Can I ask, how much does, did, or should blindness play a role in our >>> decisions about which schools to apply? Have some schools proven to >>> have a dreadful Disability Student Services? Are some schools' >>> libraries mostly hardcopy, with little to no forethought toward >>> accommodation for print-disabled students? Does it matter in the >>> first place? >>> >>> Warmth, >>> J >>> >>> >>> -- >>> J Steele-Louchart >>> >>> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai >> l.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmendez716%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From mrallman116 at gmail.com Sat Dec 10 03:55:13 2016 From: mrallman116 at gmail.com (mrallman116 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 21:55:13 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Sighted Assistance at Work In-Reply-To: <00a001d25239$695c35f0$3c14a1d0$@gmail.com> References: <00a001d25239$695c35f0$3c14a1d0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <95C42B1D-1F9A-4844-9C6A-7740E76B79B1@gmail.com> I am extremely familiar with this issue. I worked at a legal aid organization for 10 years before I got my current job. For a while there was someone who was there part time to assist me and part time to serve as a social worker. In other words, she was paid and split between two different types of duties. That occasionally had drawbacks but when I look back it seems like a very cushy arrangement to me based on what came next. Long story short, the recession hit the organization very hard and there was no longer funding for that accommodation. I began relying on volunteer interns and law clerks. I reached out to schools in the area that had paralegal students who were looking for internships. Sometimes I had people who were just volunteering to get experience and other times I supervise them in the completion of a practicum or internship for credit. I pitched it as a sort of exchange where I got accommodations and they got meaningful experience. For a while I got very good quality volunteers and sometimes it seems like I had more people than I could supervise or knew what to do with who were interested. Then, as I expected, the recession began to end and the cup dried up. It became harder and harder to find reliable and good quality volunteers. When students were ready to leave at the end of the semester or if someone was helping out for a while and got a job, there was nothing I could do but start looking for new people. It was like building a house of cards all the time as people schedules shifted and people came and went. There were times I felt like I had a second part time job that I wasn't actually getting paid for. The organization was supportive of and receptive to the volunteers but the recruitment and vetting fell entirely on me for the most part. We too had secretaries that would help out and there are times when I don't know what I would have done without them. However, they two were stretched and there is no way I would have been able to rely on them exclusively. If I had stayed longer, I honestly don't know whether I would have been able to continue like that long term. I moved out of state and took another job where I have ironically been dealing with very much the same situation that would take too long to explain. All that said, it can be extremely rewarding and fulfilling and to work with volunteers and know that you are helping to provide them with meaningful experience that will likely help them find employment. I have served as a reference for many interns overtime who contacted me later to let me know that they found good jobs. I wish I could paint a rosier picture of this arrangement but I really hope you're able to find a way to make it work. Happy to talk more off list if you are interested. Melissa Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 9, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Jen Barrow via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > For those of you who work for legal nonprofits with limited budgets, what > arrangements do you make to get the reader assistance you need? Does the > existing administrative staff provide your accommodations? This is what we > do at my organization, but it is not working well because our secretaries > are already stretched with supporting dozens of attorneys. I'm > brainstorming possible solutions to suggest to management. Did your > nonprofit hire additional administrative staff? Or do you use any > combination of law student support and volunteers? > > > > Thanks, > > Jen > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrallman116%40gmail.com From mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 11 19:53:29 2016 From: mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com (Marcos Rodrigues) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 19:53:29 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] document review - text in email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Elizabeth and all: I am reading the documents on the relativity program instead of transferring them to a spreadsheet. If you change the viewer to extracted text or even the viewer mode, the documents are perfectly readable (at least using firefox navigator) and the coding panel is accessible to a screen reader, so I think this is easier than exporting the documents to an excel file if you are only trying to code them. Have you tried to read the documents on Relativity itself or you use relativity for something else other than coding the documents? Regards. Marcos Rodrigues mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com On 5 Dec 2016, at 13:56, Elizabeth Troutman via BlindLaw > wrote: All, My last email had an attachment, but I'm not sure that attachments come through on the list serv. I have pasted the text below. Exporting Documents from Relativity Review In Relativity, create a saved search identifying the documents that need to be exported for review, outside of Relativity. Open the Relativity Desktop Client to export the saved search. 1. After selecting the case in the RDC, select the Tools 2. Navigate to Export>Saved Search [0001] 3. Select your Saved Search you want to export. 4. By default, it will populate the fields in your saved search, if you need to add any or rearrange the order, you can do so here. In this case, we wanted to export the Responsive, Privilege, Confidential and Issue Designations so that the reviewer can update these fields, and then import the coding back into Relativity. [0002] 5. Select your destination for the export location. 6. In order to be able to analyze the documents, it is best to have Native files ONLY as part of your export. 7. For the metadata export format, select the CSV option. We will convert this to Excel to make for easier review after the export. [0003] 8. Once exported, open the csv in Excel, format the fields to look how you'd like, and save as a XLS/x file. 9. By default the relative native file path is exported as the last field. Some users may find it helpful to have the filepath, some may not. If it is useful, I find it helpful to create a field that is hyperlinked to the begdoc number. Formula is =HYPERLINK(O2,A2) [cid:image004.png at 01D24EFF.653E1480] 10.When the review is finished, save the xls file back to a csv, so long as there are no commas in the review notes field. Also, normalize any data in the fields that were coded to ensure a uniform database. 11.Import the coded csv back into Relativity, overlaying on the data. Elizabeth Troutman [cid:image005.jpg at 01D24EFF.653E1480] t: 336.271.3138 f: 336.232.9138 2000 Renaissance Plaza 230 North Elm Street Greensboro, NC 27401 P.O. Box 26000 (27420) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail transmittal is privileged and confidential intended for the addressee only. If you are neither the intended recipient nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, any disclosure of this information in any way or taking of any action in reliance on this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the person transmitting the information immediately. This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by M86 MailMarshal. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40hotmail.com From sbadillo100 at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 18:45:25 2016 From: sbadillo100 at gmail.com (--) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 13:45:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah Message-ID: <584ef083.3131c80a.81376.dc69@mx.google.com> Hello, I have been subscribed for several days now and thought I would introduce my self. My name is Sarah and I am planning to take the lsat in February of next year. It is a rather difficult exam that I realize can't earn you a decent mark without preparation. I was wondering if anyone had any tips for how to manage the reading comprehension section in terms of annotating the passages as they recommend? Thanks in advance. I find this list to be very informative for now and the future. From jsteelelouchart at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 18:59:34 2016 From: jsteelelouchart at gmail.com (J Steele-Louchart) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 13:59:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah In-Reply-To: <584ef083.3131c80a.81376.dc69@mx.google.com> References: <584ef083.3131c80a.81376.dc69@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sara, Congratulations! I'm in the same boat as you, and am retaking the LSAT in February after an uncomfortable experience with accommodations on my first exam. That being said, do you plan to take the test in braille, on a computer, or in another format? Warmth, J On 12/12/16, -- via BlindLaw wrote: > Hello, I have been subscribed for several days now and thought I > would introduce my self. My name is Sarah and I am planning to > take the lsat in February of next year. It is a rather difficult > exam that I realize can't earn you a decent mark without > preparation. I was wondering if anyone had any tips for how to > manage the reading comprehension section in terms of annotating > the passages as they recommend? Thanks in advance. I find this > list to be very informative for now and the future. > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com > -- J Steele-Louchart I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Dec 12 19:45:31 2016 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:45:31 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Congressional liaison position Department of Homeland Security Seattle Message-ID: From: Paul Carlson - 10PMP-C [mailto:paul.carlson at gsa.gov] Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 2:19 PM Subject: Fwd: Job Announcement for Distribution FYI below. Job opening from USCIS. Paul Carlson Executive Director Seattle Federal Executive Board 915 Second Avenue, Room 2942 Seattle WA 98174 206 220 6171 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Pham, Thao T > Date: Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 2:14 PM Subject: Job Announcement for Distribution To: "Paul.Carlson at gsa.gov" > Cc: "Corsano, Anne A (Anne Arries)" > Good afternoon Mr. Carlson, Would it be possible if you could distribute the Congressional Liaison Specialist job announcement to the member of the Seattle Federal Executive Board for us? Below is additional information about the position. Thank you in advance. CONGRESSIONAL LIAISON SPECIALIST https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/458878800/ Department: Department Of Homeland Security Agency: Citizenship and Immigration Services Number of Job Opportunities & Location(s): 1 vacancies - Seattle, Washington Salary: $90,284.00 to $117,374.00 / Per Year Series and Grade: GS-0301-13 Open Period: Monday, December 12, 2016 to Friday, December 16, 2016 Position Information: Permanent - Full Time Who May Apply: United States Citizens. Thao Pham Operations Support Specialist II District 20 – Washington, Oregon & Alaska Tel: 206 965-4415 Email: thao.t.pham at uscis.dhs.gov From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Mon Dec 12 23:40:20 2016 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 18:40:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah In-Reply-To: References: <584ef083.3131c80a.81376.dc69@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <64AEEA5A-CDEA-499E-8E9E-9190E29AA445@jd16.law.harvard.edu> I found that annotating the test didn't work for me and that I just returned to the passages each time I went to answer a question. I did try to remember the structure of the article and what each paragraph was about though to narrow my search. I also read the questions prior to reading the passage so I could know what to look for. This may not be possible for you depending on how your timing is on that section (though you get faster the more you practice). I was pretty successful on the reading composition section this way. However, others may have a more efficient way of doing it. Best regards Derek Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 12, 2016, at 1:59 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > > Sara, > > Congratulations! I'm in the same boat as you, and am retaking the LSAT > in February after an uncomfortable experience with accommodations on > my first exam. That being said, do you plan to take the test in > braille, on a computer, or in another format? > > Warmth, > J > > >> On 12/12/16, -- via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hello, I have been subscribed for several days now and thought I >> would introduce my self. My name is Sarah and I am planning to >> take the lsat in February of next year. It is a rather difficult >> exam that I realize can't earn you a decent mark without >> preparation. I was wondering if anyone had any tips for how to >> manage the reading comprehension section in terms of annotating >> the passages as they recommend? Thanks in advance. I find this >> list to be very informative for now and the future. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From jameyanne at gmail.com Tue Dec 13 02:39:20 2016 From: jameyanne at gmail.com (Jameyanne Fuller) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 21:39:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah In-Reply-To: <64AEEA5A-CDEA-499E-8E9E-9190E29AA445@jd16.law.harvard.edu> References: <584ef083.3131c80a.81376.dc69@mx.google.com> <64AEEA5A-CDEA-499E-8E9E-9190E29AA445@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <011d01d254ea$1c6ef580$554ce080$@gmail.com> I did what Derek did except I also made sure to read the questions before I started reading the passage (just the questions, not the choices), because that helped me flag and take note of where the relevant parts for the answers would be. HTH, Jameyanne -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek Manners via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 6:40 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Derek Manners Subject: Re: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah I found that annotating the test didn't work for me and that I just returned to the passages each time I went to answer a question. I did try to remember the structure of the article and what each paragraph was about though to narrow my search. I also read the questions prior to reading the passage so I could know what to look for. This may not be possible for you depending on how your timing is on that section (though you get faster the more you practice). I was pretty successful on the reading composition section this way. However, others may have a more efficient way of doing it. Best regards Derek Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 12, 2016, at 1:59 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > > Sara, > > Congratulations! I'm in the same boat as you, and am retaking the LSAT > in February after an uncomfortable experience with accommodations on > my first exam. That being said, do you plan to take the test in > braille, on a computer, or in another format? > > Warmth, > J > > >> On 12/12/16, -- via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hello, I have been subscribed for several days now and thought I >> would introduce my self. My name is Sarah and I am planning to >> take the lsat in February of next year. It is a rather difficult >> exam that I realize can't earn you a decent mark without >> preparation. I was wondering if anyone had any tips for how to >> manage the reading comprehension section in terms of annotating >> the passages as they recommend? Thanks in advance. I find this >> list to be very informative for now and the future. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmai l.com > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha rvard.edu _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com From chris.stewart at uky.edu Tue Dec 13 14:15:56 2016 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 08:15:56 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Reading Portion of the LSAT Message-ID: Hi Sara, I echo what has been said but add one thing. If you are taking the exam with a screenreader, you'll get the test, or at least I did, in a handy html document, which means it's readily searchable. So in addition to reading through the questions first, I would then read the article and pay close attention to specific words. This was particularly helpful in one of my reading passages that was obviously something lifted from some sort of highly technical scientific journal article. Then, I would read the questions and, if I was unsure, do a search for words/phrases that I thought might be relevant to the answer. On at least one occasion, the answer choice itself contained a relevant word that led me directly back to the answer. This was a successful technique for me, and I hope I've adequately explained it. Best, Chris On 12/13/16, blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send BlindLaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of BlindLaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. introduction. Sarah (--) > 2. Re: introduction. Sarah (J Steele-Louchart) > 3. Congressional liaison position Department of Homeland > Security Seattle (Nightingale, Noel) > 4. Re: introduction. Sarah (Derek Manners) > 5. Re: introduction. Sarah (Jameyanne Fuller) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 13:45:25 -0500 > From: -- > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah > Message-ID: <584ef083.3131c80a.81376.dc69 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hello, I have been subscribed for several days now and thought I > would introduce my self. My name is Sarah and I am planning to > take the lsat in February of next year. It is a rather difficult > exam that I realize can't earn you a decent mark without > preparation. I was wondering if anyone had any tips for how to > manage the reading comprehension section in terms of annotating > the passages as they recommend? Thanks in advance. I find this > list to be very informative for now and the future. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 13:59:34 -0500 > From: J Steele-Louchart > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Sara, > > Congratulations! I'm in the same boat as you, and am retaking the LSAT > in February after an uncomfortable experience with accommodations on > my first exam. That being said, do you plan to take the test in > braille, on a computer, or in another format? > > Warmth, > J > > > On 12/12/16, -- via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hello, I have been subscribed for several days now and thought I >> would introduce my self. My name is Sarah and I am planning to >> take the lsat in February of next year. It is a rather difficult >> exam that I realize can't earn you a decent mark without >> preparation. I was wondering if anyone had any tips for how to >> manage the reading comprehension section in terms of annotating >> the passages as they recommend? Thanks in advance. I find this >> list to be very informative for now and the future. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > J Steele-Louchart > > I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:45:31 +0000 > From: "Nightingale, Noel" > To: "jobs at nfbnet.org" , "blindlaw at nfbnet.org" > , "nfbwwatlk at nfbmet.org" > Subject: [blindlaw] Congressional liaison position Department of > Homeland Security Seattle > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > From: Paul Carlson - 10PMP-C [mailto:paul.carlson at gsa.gov] > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 2:19 PM > Subject: Fwd: Job Announcement for Distribution > > FYI below. Job opening from USCIS. > > > Paul Carlson > Executive Director > Seattle Federal Executive Board > 915 Second Avenue, Room 2942 > Seattle WA 98174 > 206 220 6171 > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Pham, Thao T > > > Date: Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 2:14 PM > Subject: Job Announcement for Distribution > To: "Paul.Carlson at gsa.gov" > > > Cc: "Corsano, Anne A (Anne Arries)" > > > Good afternoon Mr. Carlson, > > Would it be possible if you could distribute the Congressional Liaison > Specialist job announcement to the member of the Seattle Federal Executive > Board for us? Below is additional information about the position. Thank you > in advance. > > > > CONGRESSIONAL LIAISON SPECIALIST > > https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/458878800/ > > Department: Department Of Homeland Security > > Agency: Citizenship and Immigration Services > > Number of Job Opportunities & Location(s): 1 vacancies - Seattle, > Washington > > Salary: $90,284.00 to $117,374.00 / Per Year Series and Grade: GS-0301-13 > Open Period: Monday, December 12, 2016 to Friday, December 16, 2016 Position > Information: Permanent - Full Time Who May Apply: United States Citizens. > > > Thao Pham > Operations Support Specialist II > District 20 ? Washington, Oregon & Alaska > Tel: 206 965-4415 > Email: thao.t.pham at uscis.dhs.gov > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 18:40:20 -0500 > From: Derek Manners > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah > Message-ID: > <64AEEA5A-CDEA-499E-8E9E-9190E29AA445 at jd16.law.harvard.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I found that annotating the test didn't work for me and that I just returned > to the passages each time I went to answer a question. I did try to remember > the structure of the article and what each paragraph was about though to > narrow my search. I also read the questions prior to reading the passage so > I could know what to look for. > > This may not be possible for you depending on how your timing is on that > section (though you get faster the more you practice). > > I was pretty successful on the reading composition section this way. > However, others may have a more efficient way of doing it. > > Best regards > Derek > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 12, 2016, at 1:59 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Sara, >> >> Congratulations! I'm in the same boat as you, and am retaking the LSAT >> in February after an uncomfortable experience with accommodations on >> my first exam. That being said, do you plan to take the test in >> braille, on a computer, or in another format? >> >> Warmth, >> J >> >> >>> On 12/12/16, -- via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Hello, I have been subscribed for several days now and thought I >>> would introduce my self. My name is Sarah and I am planning to >>> take the lsat in February of next year. It is a rather difficult >>> exam that I realize can't earn you a decent mark without >>> preparation. I was wondering if anyone had any tips for how to >>> manage the reading comprehension section in terms of annotating >>> the passages as they recommend? Thanks in advance. I find this >>> list to be very informative for now and the future. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 21:39:20 -0500 > From: "Jameyanne Fuller" > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah > Message-ID: <011d01d254ea$1c6ef580$554ce080$@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I did what Derek did except I also made sure to read the questions before I > started reading the passage (just the questions, not the choices), because > that helped me flag and take note of where the relevant parts for the > answers would be. > HTH, > Jameyanne > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek > Manners via BlindLaw > Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 6:40 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Derek Manners > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] introduction. Sarah > > I found that annotating the test didn't work for me and that I just > returned > to the passages each time I went to answer a question. I did try to > remember > the structure of the article and what each paragraph was about though to > narrow my search. I also read the questions prior to reading the passage so > I could know what to look for. > > This may not be possible for you depending on how your timing is on that > section (though you get faster the more you practice). > > I was pretty successful on the reading composition section this way. > However, others may have a more efficient way of doing it. > > Best regards > Derek > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 12, 2016, at 1:59 PM, J Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > wrote: >> >> Sara, >> >> Congratulations! I'm in the same boat as you, and am retaking the LSAT >> in February after an uncomfortable experience with accommodations on >> my first exam. That being said, do you plan to take the test in >> braille, on a computer, or in another format? >> >> Warmth, >> J >> >> >>> On 12/12/16, -- via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Hello, I have been subscribed for several days now and thought I >>> would introduce my self. My name is Sarah and I am planning to >>> take the lsat in February of next year. It is a rather difficult >>> exam that I realize can't earn you a decent mark without >>> preparation. I was wondering if anyone had any tips for how to >>> manage the reading comprehension section in terms of annotating >>> the passages as they recommend? Thanks in advance. I find this >>> list to be very informative for now and the future. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsteelelouchart%40gmai > l.com >> >> >> -- >> J Steele-Louchart >> >> I Will Find A Way or I Will Make One >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha > rvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of BlindLaw Digest, Vol 151, Issue 14 > ***************************************** > -- Chris K. Stewart, J.D. Ph: (502)457-1757 From mhernandez at just-tech.com Sun Dec 18 14:55:19 2016 From: mhernandez at just-tech.com (Michael Hernandez) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 14:55:19 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys Message-ID: Hi All, I hope this email finds you well. I'm researching tools we can purchase to best assist a blind attorney. The attorney I'm researching this for is currently using JAWS. The challenge we are having is finding a tool that helps with landscape documents, charts, graphs and handwritten legal documents. Nuance, which I think is the leader in OCR software, doesn't convert hand written notes or documents very well. I did reach out to JAWS to discuss these challenges. As I type this, I realize when I spoke with them, I focused on charts and hand written documents and didn't bring up landscape documents. They told me, unfortunately these are limitations with the software and there isn't anything on the market to address those challenges. If anyone had the time and could share any information on how you have addressed these challenges, I would greatly appreciate any information you can provide. My company works with Legal Non-Profits across the US, and though I am researching this for one client, any information I find, I would share with others, clients or not. I emailed a nationwide listserv of Legal Non-Profits regarding this challenge, received one response and unfortunately not with information that would help address this challenge. Thanks for your time and consideration responding to this email. I wish all a Happy Holiday. Thanks Michael [JUST-TECH, LLC] Michael Hernandez / Director of Consulting Services JUST-TECH, LLC O. 929-277-9804 14 Pennsylvania Plaza, 9th FloorNew York, NY 10122 just-tech.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 6220 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From tim at timeldermusic.com Mon Dec 19 14:54:07 2016 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 06:54:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006b01d25a07$c0fdb8d0$42f92a70$@timeldermusic.com> First, it is worth pointing out that a human reader should not be overlooked as an accommodation. As much as I love tech, there are situations where using a human assistant is the more effective, efficient and reliable strategy. Second, of the four items you mentioned, I believe there are consumer OCR tools for all but hand writing. And I suspect there are tools that can interpret it, but perhaps not in the automated instant manner that most consumers might expect. Landscape makes no difference if using an advanced OCR engine. Likewise, most advanced OCR engines can convert to Excel, though I'm pretty sure you would need to tinker with the settings to get a chart to come out correctly. I find Abby Fine Reader to be the most flexible of the advanced OCR tools for the price. I also have the K1000 as a back-up. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hernandez [mailto:mhernandez at just-tech.com] Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2016 6:55 AM To: BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys Hi All, I hope this email finds you well. I'm researching tools we can purchase to best assist a blind attorney. The attorney I'm researching this for is currently using JAWS. The challenge we are having is finding a tool that helps with landscape documents, charts, graphs and handwritten legal documents. Nuance, which I think is the leader in OCR software, doesn't convert hand written notes or documents very well. I did reach out to JAWS to discuss these challenges. As I type this, I realize when I spoke with them, I focused on charts and hand written documents and didn't bring up landscape documents. They told me, unfortunately these are limitations with the software and there isn't anything on the market to address those challenges. If anyone had the time and could share any information on how you have addressed these challenges, I would greatly appreciate any information you can provide. My company works with Legal Non-Profits across the US, and though I am researching this for one client, any information I find, I would share with others, clients or not. I emailed a nationwide listserv of Legal Non-Profits regarding this challenge, received one response and unfortunately not with information that would help address this challenge. Thanks for your time and consideration responding to this email. I wish all a Happy Holiday. Thanks Michael [JUST-TECH, LLC] Michael Hernandez / Director of Consulting Services JUST-TECH, LLC O. 929-277-9804 14 Pennsylvania Plaza, 9th FloorNew York, NY 10122 just-tech.com From rodalcidonis at gmail.com Mon Dec 19 16:39:49 2016 From: rodalcidonis at gmail.com (Rod) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 11:39:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys In-Reply-To: <006b01d25a07$c0fdb8d0$42f92a70$@timeldermusic.com> References: <006b01d25a07$c0fdb8d0$42f92a70$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <0CD928F87C2042BDA4EF0BF78435E179@RodTHINK> I second what Tim has said. A human reader is currently the best option to handle such a situation. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Tim Elder via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 9:54 AM To: 'Michael Hernandez' ; BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Tim Elder Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys First, it is worth pointing out that a human reader should not be overlooked as an accommodation. As much as I love tech, there are situations where using a human assistant is the more effective, efficient and reliable strategy. Second, of the four items you mentioned, I believe there are consumer OCR tools for all but hand writing. And I suspect there are tools that can interpret it, but perhaps not in the automated instant manner that most consumers might expect. Landscape makes no difference if using an advanced OCR engine. Likewise, most advanced OCR engines can convert to Excel, though I'm pretty sure you would need to tinker with the settings to get a chart to come out correctly. I find Abby Fine Reader to be the most flexible of the advanced OCR tools for the price. I also have the K1000 as a back-up. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hernandez [mailto:mhernandez at just-tech.com] Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2016 6:55 AM To: BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys Hi All, I hope this email finds you well. I'm researching tools we can purchase to best assist a blind attorney. The attorney I'm researching this for is currently using JAWS. The challenge we are having is finding a tool that helps with landscape documents, charts, graphs and handwritten legal documents. Nuance, which I think is the leader in OCR software, doesn't convert hand written notes or documents very well. I did reach out to JAWS to discuss these challenges. As I type this, I realize when I spoke with them, I focused on charts and hand written documents and didn't bring up landscape documents. They told me, unfortunately these are limitations with the software and there isn't anything on the market to address those challenges. If anyone had the time and could share any information on how you have addressed these challenges, I would greatly appreciate any information you can provide. My company works with Legal Non-Profits across the US, and though I am researching this for one client, any information I find, I would share with others, clients or not. I emailed a nationwide listserv of Legal Non-Profits regarding this challenge, received one response and unfortunately not with information that would help address this challenge. Thanks for your time and consideration responding to this email. I wish all a Happy Holiday. Thanks Michael [JUST-TECH, LLC] Michael Hernandez / Director of Consulting Services JUST-TECH, LLC O. 929-277-9804 14 Pennsylvania Plaza, 9th FloorNew York, NY 10122 just-tech.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com From mhernandez at just-tech.com Mon Dec 19 17:53:08 2016 From: mhernandez at just-tech.com (Michael Hernandez) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 17:53:08 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys In-Reply-To: <0CD928F87C2042BDA4EF0BF78435E179@RodTHINK> References: <006b01d25a07$c0fdb8d0$42f92a70$@timeldermusic.com> <0CD928F87C2042BDA4EF0BF78435E179@RodTHINK> Message-ID: Hi Tim and Rod, I greatly appreciate the feedback. This is very helpful. Thanks so much. Michael -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 11:40 AM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Rod Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys I second what Tim has said. A human reader is currently the best option to handle such a situation. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Tim Elder via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 9:54 AM To: 'Michael Hernandez' ; BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Tim Elder Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys First, it is worth pointing out that a human reader should not be overlooked as an accommodation. As much as I love tech, there are situations where using a human assistant is the more effective, efficient and reliable strategy. Second, of the four items you mentioned, I believe there are consumer OCR tools for all but hand writing. And I suspect there are tools that can interpret it, but perhaps not in the automated instant manner that most consumers might expect. Landscape makes no difference if using an advanced OCR engine. Likewise, most advanced OCR engines can convert to Excel, though I'm pretty sure you would need to tinker with the settings to get a chart to come out correctly. I find Abby Fine Reader to be the most flexible of the advanced OCR tools for the price. I also have the K1000 as a back-up. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hernandez [mailto:mhernandez at just-tech.com] Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2016 6:55 AM To: BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys Hi All, I hope this email finds you well. I'm researching tools we can purchase to best assist a blind attorney. The attorney I'm researching this for is currently using JAWS. The challenge we are having is finding a tool that helps with landscape documents, charts, graphs and handwritten legal documents. Nuance, which I think is the leader in OCR software, doesn't convert hand written notes or documents very well. I did reach out to JAWS to discuss these challenges. As I type this, I realize when I spoke with them, I focused on charts and hand written documents and didn't bring up landscape documents. They told me, unfortunately these are limitations with the software and there isn't anything on the market to address those challenges. If anyone had the time and could share any information on how you have addressed these challenges, I would greatly appreciate any information you can provide. My company works with Legal Non-Profits across the US, and though I am researching this for one client, any information I find, I would share with others, clients or not. I emailed a nationwide listserv of Legal Non-Profits regarding this challenge, received one response and unfortunately not with information that would help address this challenge. Thanks for your time and consideration responding to this email. I wish all a Happy Holiday. Thanks Michael [JUST-TECH, LLC] Michael Hernandez / Director of Consulting Services JUST-TECH, LLC O. 929-277-9804 14 Pennsylvania Plaza, 9th FloorNew York, NY 10122 just-tech.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mhernandez%40just-tech.com From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Mon Dec 19 18:48:01 2016 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 13:48:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] WLC Hiring Deputy Legal Director In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Washington Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights is seeking a Deputy Director of Litigation. Applications are accepted on a roling basis. Please see job announcement attached and distribute widely. Thank you. Deepa Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. | Staff Attorney, Disability Rights Project Washington Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights and Urban Affairs 11 Dupont Circle,NW, Suite 400 | Washington, DC 20036 202-319-1000 X132 | Fax 202-319-1010 This email message is from an attorney and may contain information that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please immediately advise the sender that this message was inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this message, along with any attachments. Please note that if you are an attorney who received this email about a prospective client, you must maintain the confidences of the prospective client. Thank you for your cooperation. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Deputy Director of Litigation Position Announcement (09-2016)[211272].docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 65940 bytes Desc: not available URL: From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Mon Dec 19 19:09:12 2016 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 14:09:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for articles for the Disability Rights Committee's second quarterly newsletter Message-ID: Hi everyone, The ABA Young Lawyers Division Disability Rights Committee, www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/committees/disability_rights.html, will be publishing our second quarterly newsletter on January 19. We are looking for more short articles and op-eds to include. The articles we received for our fall newsletter were great and we’d love more on a wide variety of interesting topics. If anyone would like to write something, please let me know and have your article to me by the first week of January. Again, the articles should be short, regarding recent legal developments or relevant tenets of law (approximately 200-300 words). Some suggestions for articles are: current relevant topics (such as discussing a recent significant court opinion or case in disability rights, upcoming significant Supreme Court decision, a legal event or cconference that just occurred), a discussion about being an attorney with a disability and your concerns/challenges in the legal profession, etc. Some examples of op-eds are: Lessons from One of America’s Best Advocates, Sexism in the Legal Field, Reflections of a Young Trial Attorney, etc. Note that if you want to publish an article in our newsletter, we must be your first place of publication. So please do not send an article that has already been published somewhere else, not even for another newsletter. If interested, please email me at deepa_goraya at washlaw.org. Thank you. Deepa DEEPINDER K. GORAYA, ESQ. | STAFF ATTORNEY, DISABILITY RIGHTS PROJECT WASHINGTON LAWYERS' COMMITTEE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS AND URBAN AFFAIRS 11 Dupont Circle,NW, Suite 400 | Washington, DC 20036 202-319-1000 X132 | Fax 202-319-1010 This email message is from an attorney and may contain information that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please immediately advise the sender that this message was inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this message, along with any attachments. Please note that if you are an attorney who received this email about a prospective client, you must maintain the confidences of the prospective client. Thank you for your cooperation. From PChang at nfb.org Mon Dec 19 19:57:30 2016 From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 19:57:30 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for articles for the Disability Rights Committee's second quarterly newsletter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can we get our national scholarship flier included? -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 1:09 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Deepa Goraya Subject: [blindlaw] looking for articles for the Disability Rights Committee's second quarterly newsletter Hi everyone, The ABA Young Lawyers Division Disability Rights Committee, http://www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/committees/disability_rights.html, will be publishing our second quarterly newsletter on January 19. We are looking for more short articles and op-eds to include. The articles we received for our fall newsletter were great and we’d love more on a wide variety of interesting topics. If anyone would like to write something, please let me know and have your article to me by the first week of January. Again, the articles should be short, regarding recent legal developments or relevant tenets of law (approximately 200-300 words). Some suggestions for articles are: current relevant topics (such as discussing a recent significant court opinion or case in disability rights, upcoming significant Supreme Court decision, a legal event or cconference that just occurred), a discussion about being an attorney with a disability and your concerns/challenges in the legal profession, etc. Some examples of op-eds are: Lessons from One of America’s Best Advocates, Sexism in the Legal Field, Reflections of a Young Trial Attorney, etc. Note that if you want to publish an article in our newsletter, we must be your first place of publication. So please do not send an article that has already been published somewhere else, not even for another newsletter. If interested, please email me at deepa_goraya at washlaw.org. Thank you. Deepa DEEPINDER K. GORAYA, ESQ. | STAFF ATTORNEY, DISABILITY RIGHTS PROJECT WASHINGTON LAWYERS' COMMITTEE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS AND URBAN AFFAIRS 11 Dupont Circle,NW, Suite 400 | Washington, DC 20036 202-319-1000 X132 | Fax 202-319-1010 This email message is from an attorney and may contain information that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please immediately advise the sender that this message was inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this message, along with any attachments. Please note that if you are an attorney who received this email about a prospective client, you must maintain the confidences of the prospective client. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Mon Dec 19 20:08:27 2016 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 15:08:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for articles for the Disability Rights Committee's second quarterly newsletter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Additionally, we are always looking for 101/201 practice series articles throughout the year. 101/201 Practice Series articles are online resources for new lawyers covering basic training in both substantive and practical aspects of law practice. So they would be posted to our Committee website. These articles are typically longer than the short articles contained in Newsletters—approximately 600 words. While Practice Series articles are longer, and tend to be more substantive in nature, it is important to note that these are not “law review” articles—they are simple, short articles that discuss important substantive and/or practical aspects of law practice. They can vary in terms of topic, but should have some nexus to the work of the Disability Rights Committee. Please see attached and here for 101/201 examples: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/publications/the_101_201_practice_series/women_minority_lawyers.html; http://www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/publications/the_101_201_practice_series.html. On 12/19/16, Deepa Goraya wrote: > Hi everyone, > > The ABA Young Lawyers Division Disability Rights Committee, > www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/committees/disability_rights.html, > will be publishing our second quarterly newsletter on January 19. We > are looking for more short articles and op-eds to include. The > articles we received for our fall newsletter were great and we’d love > more on a wide variety of interesting topics. If anyone would like to > write something, please let me know and have your article to me by the > first week of January. Again, the articles should be short, regarding > recent legal developments or relevant tenets of law (approximately > 200-300 words). Some suggestions for articles are: current relevant > topics (such as discussing a recent significant court opinion or case > in disability rights, upcoming significant Supreme Court decision, a > legal event or cconference that just occurred), a discussion about > being an attorney with a disability and your concerns/challenges in > the legal profession, etc. Some examples of op-eds are: Lessons from > One of America’s Best Advocates, Sexism in the Legal Field, > Reflections of a Young Trial Attorney, etc. Note that if you want to > publish an article in our newsletter, we must be your first place of > publication. So please do not send an article that has already been > published somewhere else, not even for another newsletter. > > If interested, please email me at deepa_goraya at washlaw.org. > > Thank you. > > Deepa > > DEEPINDER K. GORAYA, ESQ. | STAFF ATTORNEY, DISABILITY RIGHTS PROJECT > WASHINGTON LAWYERS' COMMITTEE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS AND URBAN AFFAIRS > 11 Dupont Circle,NW, Suite 400 | Washington, DC 20036 > 202-319-1000 X132 | Fax 202-319-1010 > > This email message is from an attorney and may contain information > that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product. If you > are not the intended recipient of this email, please immediately > advise the sender that this message was inadvertently transmitted to > you and delete this message, along with any attachments. Please note > that if you are an attorney who received this email about a > prospective client, you must maintain the confidences of the > prospective client. Thank you for your cooperation. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 101 Series Building a Bilingual Practice.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 24556 bytes Desc: not available URL: From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 17:05:14 2016 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 12:05:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for anyone who has been impacted by Barbri Bar Review's inaccessibility Message-ID: Hello everyone, As you may remember, the Washington Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights filed a class action lawsuit in the Northern District of Texas against Barbri, Inc. on behalf of a putative class of blind students. The lawsuit, Stanley, et al. v. Barbri, Inc., Civil Action No. 16-cv-01113-BK, concerns accessibility of the Barbri bar review website and mobile application, which are not fully accessible to talking screen readers, making it difficult to get access to all the study tools and course materials. Additionally, the materials provided in alternate formats are often not delivered on time and are not complete. Briefing is complete on Barbri’s motion to dismiss, and we are entering the discovery phase. Our motion for class certification will be due in February. In advance of that motion, we would like to hear from people who have been impacted by Barbri’s inaccessibility. If anyone who is legally blind has either taken Barbri between April of 2014 and the present, wanted to take Barbri between April of 2014 and the present but was deterred because you knew they were not accessible, or is currently taking or planning to take Barbri, please get in touch with me. You can email me at deepa_goraya at washlaw.org or call me at 202-319-1000 and ask for Deepa Goraya. Deepa DEEPINDER K. GORAYA, ESQ. | STAFF ATTORNEY, DISABILITY RIGHTS PROJECT WASHINGTON LAWYERS' COMMITTEE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS AND URBAN AFFAIRS 11 Dupont Circle,NW, Suite 400 | Washington, DC 20036 202-319-1000 X132 | Fax 202-319-1010 This email message is from an attorney and may contain information that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please immediately advise the sender that this message was inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this message, along with any attachments. Please note that if you are an attorney who received this email about a prospective client, you must maintain the confidences of the prospective client. Thank you for your cooperation. From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 22:21:08 2016 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 17:21:08 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] I have several violations committed by my school I would like to discuss with someone to identify potential solutions Message-ID: Hello Listers, I would like to speak with someone off list regarding approximately 12 violations I have encountered at my law school. I am in Pennsylvania. Is there anyone out there who could take a look at these? Aimee Sent from my iPhone From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Wed Dec 21 10:40:55 2016 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 05:40:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for anyone who has been impacted by Barbri Bar Review's inaccessibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <898C1D59-C6C0-44F2-B8CB-433BA6EA68EC@jd16.law.harvard.edu> I'd like to follow this up as one of the plaintiffs in the case and somebody who took BARBRI over the summer. I recognize that getting involved in a suit may not sound appealing and that, until you've experienced the anxiety and stress of not knowing whether you passed because you were unable to complete large sections of the program due to inaccessibility, it may not seem worth it. But, especially if you're in law school right now, I promise you, inaccessible bar prep, which pretty much describes all the companies to some degree, will be the biggest obstacle in becoming a lawyer. I can't express to you the amount of anxiety, lost sleep, self doubt, and dread I experienced dealing with this. So please, do yourself a favor. If you're in law school right now and plan to take the bar, help us make BARBRI accessible so you won't have to go through the same thing. Thanks Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 20, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > As you may remember, the Washington Lawyers’ Committee for Civil > Rights filed a class action lawsuit in the Northern District of Texas > against Barbri, Inc. on behalf of a putative class of blind students. > The lawsuit, Stanley, et al. v. Barbri, Inc., Civil Action No. > 16-cv-01113-BK, concerns accessibility of the Barbri bar review > website and mobile application, which are not fully accessible to > talking screen readers, making it difficult to get access to all the > study tools and course materials. Additionally, the materials provided > in alternate formats are often not delivered on time and are not > complete. > > Briefing is complete on Barbri’s motion to dismiss, and we are > entering the discovery phase. Our motion for class certification will > be due in February. In advance of that motion, we would like to hear > from people who have been impacted by Barbri’s inaccessibility. > > If anyone who is legally blind has either taken Barbri between April > of 2014 and the present, wanted to take Barbri between April of 2014 > and the present but was deterred because you knew they were not > accessible, or is currently taking or planning to take Barbri, please > get in touch with me. You can email me at deepa_goraya at washlaw.org or > call me at 202-319-1000 and ask for Deepa Goraya. > > Deepa > > DEEPINDER K. GORAYA, ESQ. | STAFF ATTORNEY, DISABILITY RIGHTS PROJECT > WASHINGTON LAWYERS' COMMITTEE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS AND URBAN AFFAIRS > 11 Dupont Circle,NW, Suite 400 | Washington, DC 20036 > 202-319-1000 X132 | Fax 202-319-1010 > > This email message is from an attorney and may contain information > that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product. If you > are not the intended recipient of this email, please immediately > advise the sender that this message was inadvertently transmitted to > you and delete this message, along with any attachments. Please note > that if you are an attorney who received this email about a > prospective client, you must maintain the confidences of the > prospective client. Thank you for your cooperation. > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From chris.stewart at uky.edu Wed Dec 21 14:06:38 2016 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 08:06:38 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 3. Re: looking for anyone who has been impacted by Barbri Bar Review's Inaccessibility Message-ID: Hi All, I wanted to take a moment to echo the eloquent comments of my friend and co-plaintiff Derek. For those of you in law school, bar review is essentially the equivalent of studying for all of your 1L and many of your 2L and 3L finals at the same time, except in at least one or two cases, you won't have taken the class, and your intensity of study is expected to hold constant for the better part of two months. I watched as sighted friends around me had panic attacks, as relationships broke up, and as everyone lost sleep. But even those friends on the edge of breakdowns often came back down to earth when they heard about my accessibility issues. Imagine waking up with an eight-hour study plan outlined in front of you, but with none of the materials for that day. What does that mean? It means there is very likely an even longer day somewhere in your near future. This law suit means all the more to me because, when I finish my clerkship, I am moving either to New York or Washington DC. Neither Virginia nor New York accepts a non-concurrent MBE transfer, so I'll be going through this whole process again. So I encourage any of you planning to use Barbri or who have at some point been discouraged from using Barbri to get in touch with Deepa. Her email again is deepa_goraya at washlaw.org. Best, Chris From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Fri Dec 23 02:37:41 2016 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 21:37:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] I have several violations committed by my school I would like to discuss with someone to identify potential solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <039501d25cc5$8c9ba910$a5d2fb30$@gmail.com> Aimee, If no one else has offered to assist yet, I'd be willing to speak with you. Please email me off-list at deepa_goraya at washlaw.org. Thanks. Deepa Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 5:21 PM To: BlindLaw Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: [blindlaw] I have several violations committed by my school I would like to discuss with someone to identify potential solutions Hello Listers, I would like to speak with someone off list regarding approximately 12 violations I have encountered at my law school. I am in Pennsylvania. Is there anyone out there who could take a look at these? Aimee Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c om From b.s.spiry at gmail.com Fri Dec 23 21:09:22 2016 From: b.s.spiry at gmail.com (Bill Spiry) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 13:09:22 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01eb01d25d60$d79eae30$86dc0a90$@gmail.com> Fact is, handwritten docs are pretty much inaccessible without the assistance of a sighted assistant to convert or read the content for the blind user. Graphs and charts are challenging, it is possible to create tags for them that can be "seen" by the screen reader, but it is tough to do. Personally, I create a side document with descriptions of key elements of graphs and charts so that I can refer to those points if presenting the materials. This still takes the assistance of someone with vision to help describe and/or transcribe the descriptions of the visual aids. If someone hands me a chart or graph, I enlist someone sighted to interpret it for me. As to landscape docs, good OCR programs like Abbyy finereader or Omnipage Ultimate from Nuance will read the documents and do an OCR conversion provided the text of the landscape doc is recognizable to the program OCR function. Bill Spiry Attorney at Law Spiry Law LLC (541) 600-3301 Bill at SpiryLaw.com Bill.spiry at gmail.com This electronic mail message contains CONFIDENTIAL information which is (a) ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION, WORK PRODUCT, PROPRIETARY IN NATURE, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED BY LAW FROM DISCLOSURE, and (b) intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) named herein. If you are not an Addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an Addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, copying, or distributing this message is prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please reply to the sender and take the steps necessary to delete the message and any attachments completely from your computer system. Email transmission may not be secure. Third parties can and do intercept email communication. By using email to communicate with this office, you assume the risk that any confidential or privileged information may be intercepted and viewed by third persons. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hernandez via BlindLaw Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2016 6:55 AM To: BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Michael Hernandez Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys Hi All, I hope this email finds you well. I'm researching tools we can purchase to best assist a blind attorney. The attorney I'm researching this for is currently using JAWS. The challenge we are having is finding a tool that helps with landscape documents, charts, graphs and handwritten legal documents. Nuance, which I think is the leader in OCR software, doesn't convert hand written notes or documents very well. I did reach out to JAWS to discuss these challenges. As I type this, I realize when I spoke with them, I focused on charts and hand written documents and didn't bring up landscape documents. They told me, unfortunately these are limitations with the software and there isn't anything on the market to address those challenges. If anyone had the time and could share any information on how you have addressed these challenges, I would greatly appreciate any information you can provide. My company works with Legal Non-Profits across the US, and though I am researching this for one client, any information I find, I would share with others, clients or not. I emailed a nationwide listserv of Legal Non-Profits regarding this challenge, received one response and unfortunately not with information that would help address this challenge. Thanks for your time and consideration responding to this email. I wish all a Happy Holiday. Thanks Michael [JUST-TECH, LLC] Michael Hernandez / Director of Consulting Services JUST-TECH, LLC O. 929-277-9804 14 Pennsylvania Plaza, 9th FloorNew York, NY 10122 just-tech.com From b.s.spiry at gmail.com Fri Dec 23 21:20:53 2016 From: b.s.spiry at gmail.com (Bill Spiry) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 13:20:53 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] side question re ABBYY FineReader RE: Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys Message-ID: <022d01d25d62$72d44da0$587ce8e0$@gmail.com> I'm curious in ABBYY Finereader, I'm still using 10 but find it impossible to turn column recognition on/off without a sighted assistant. Long ago with and earlier version, I had the option to recognize columns in the scanning dialog box but it went away in version 10. This is a challenge when scanning pleadings, particularly with numbered lines. Finereader automatically assumes I want columns to be be treated as a continuous text and so I get a word conversion with all the line numbers on one page and the associated text on the next in alternations with each page. A real PITA. Apparently it's easy to "fix" this misconversion with vision and a mouse once it is scanned but haven't figured out how to do it myself again. Does the latter versions of ABBYY reintegrate this column conversion option back into an accessible format? Thanks. Bill Spiry Attorney at Law Spiry Law LLC (541) 600-3301 Bill at SpiryLaw.com Bill.spiry at gmail.com This electronic mail message contains CONFIDENTIAL information which is (a) ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION, WORK PRODUCT, PROPRIETARY IN NATURE, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED BY LAW FROM DISCLOSURE, and (b) intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) named herein. If you are not an Addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an Addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, copying, or distributing this message is prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please reply to the sender and take the steps necessary to delete the message and any attachments completely from your computer system. Email transmission may not be secure. Third parties can and do intercept email communication. By using email to communicate with this office, you assume the risk that any confidential or privileged information may be intercepted and viewed by third persons. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Elder via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 6:54 AM To: 'Michael Hernandez' ; BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Tim Elder Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys First, it is worth pointing out that a human reader should not be overlooked as an accommodation. As much as I love tech, there are situations where using a human assistant is the more effective, efficient and reliable strategy. Second, of the four items you mentioned, I believe there are consumer OCR tools for all but hand writing. And I suspect there are tools that can interpret it, but perhaps not in the automated instant manner that most consumers might expect. Landscape makes no difference if using an advanced OCR engine. Likewise, most advanced OCR engines can convert to Excel, though I'm pretty sure you would need to tinker with the settings to get a chart to come out correctly. I find Abby Fine Reader to be the most flexible of the advanced OCR tools for the price. I also have the K1000 as a back-up. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hernandez [mailto:mhernandez at just-tech.com] Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2016 6:55 AM To: BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for tech tools for blind attorneys Hi All, I hope this email finds you well. I'm researching tools we can purchase to best assist a blind attorney. The attorney I'm researching this for is currently using JAWS. The challenge we are having is finding a tool that helps with landscape documents, charts, graphs and handwritten legal documents. Nuance, which I think is the leader in OCR software, doesn't convert hand written notes or documents very well. I did reach out to JAWS to discuss these challenges. As I type this, I realize when I spoke with them, I focused on charts and hand written documents and didn't bring up landscape documents. They told me, unfortunately these are limitations with the software and there isn't anything on the market to address those challenges. If anyone had the time and could share any information on how you have addressed these challenges, I would greatly appreciate any information you can provide. My company works with Legal Non-Profits across the US, and though I am researching this for one client, any information I find, I would share with others, clients or not. I emailed a nationwide listserv of Legal Non-Profits regarding this challenge, received one response and unfortunately not with information that would help address this challenge. Thanks for your time and consideration responding to this email. I wish all a Happy Holiday. Thanks Michael [JUST-TECH, LLC] Michael Hernandez / Director of Consulting Services JUST-TECH, LLC O. 929-277-9804 14 Pennsylvania Plaza, 9th FloorNew York, NY 10122 just-tech.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.s.spiry%40gmail.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Dec 23 22:59:09 2016 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. Labarre) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 15:59:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! Message-ID: <062501d25d70$2bc496f0$834dc4d0$@labarrelaw.com> Hey Everyone, I wanted to wish you the best of this season and bring these greetings. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Joyous Kwanzaa to all!! I hope that you are able to spend this time with friends and family. It has been a good year for blind lawyers and we will work hard to make 2017 even better. Seasons Greetings and Happy Holidays to all! Warmly, Scott From advocate at earthlink.net Sun Dec 25 21:09:14 2016 From: advocate at earthlink.net (Marianne Haas) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 13:09:14 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! In-Reply-To: <062501d25d70$2bc496f0$834dc4d0$@labarrelaw.com> References: <062501d25d70$2bc496f0$834dc4d0$@labarrelaw.com> Message-ID: <000101d25ef3$26101de0$723059a0$@earthlink.net> Have a wonderful Holiday and an even better New Year. Marianne -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. Labarre via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 2:59 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Scott C. Labarre Subject: [blindlaw] HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! Hey Everyone, I wanted to wish you the best of this season and bring these greetings. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Joyous Kwanzaa to all!! I hope that you are able to spend this time with friends and family. It has been a good year for blind lawyers and we will work hard to make 2017 even better. Seasons Greetings and Happy Holidays to all! Warmly, Scott _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/advocate%40earthlink.n et From joefagnani at atlanticbb.net Sun Dec 25 21:12:24 2016 From: joefagnani at atlanticbb.net (Joseph Fagnani) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 16:12:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! References: <062501d25d70$2bc496f0$834dc4d0$@labarrelaw.com> <000101d25ef3$26101de0$723059a0$@earthlink.net> Message-ID: It should be Merry Christmas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marianne Haas via BlindLaw" To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" Cc: "Marianne Haas" Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! Have a wonderful Holiday and an even better New Year. Marianne -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. Labarre via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 2:59 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Scott C. Labarre Subject: [blindlaw] HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! Hey Everyone, I wanted to wish you the best of this season and bring these greetings. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Joyous Kwanzaa to all!! I hope that you are able to spend this time with friends and family. It has been a good year for blind lawyers and we will work hard to make 2017 even better. Seasons Greetings and Happy Holidays to all! Warmly, Scott _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/advocate%40earthlink.n et _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joefagnani%40atlanticbb.net From joefagnani at atlanticbb.net Sun Dec 25 21:13:15 2016 From: joefagnani at atlanticbb.net (Joseph Fagnani) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 16:13:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! References: <062501d25d70$2bc496f0$834dc4d0$@labarrelaw.com> Message-ID: <5874D03DCCDD4551B21ADFADE5A10527@ALLINPLAY> It should be Merry Christmas. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. Labarre via BlindLaw" To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" Cc: "Scott C. Labarre" Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 5:59 PM Subject: [blindlaw] HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! Hey Everyone, I wanted to wish you the best of this season and bring these greetings. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Joyous Kwanzaa to all!! I hope that you are able to spend this time with friends and family. It has been a good year for blind lawyers and we will work hard to make 2017 even better. Seasons Greetings and Happy Holidays to all! Warmly, Scott _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joefagnani%40atlanticbb.net From glnorman15 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 27 12:36:17 2016 From: glnorman15 at hotmail.com (GL Norman) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 12:36:17 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry as to Google Voice Accessibility? Message-ID: Greetings: I hope that this finds all of you well. I am wondering as to the opinions of persons on this list as to the most accessible time tracking or case management software that might be available, if at all. Question: In related note, this inquires if anyone on this list service has utilized Google Voice, which I understand to be an app for the cellular that allows one to have an independent telephone number. A speaker at a conference for solo practitioners mentioned the app. If anyone has indeed utilized the app, I wonder your experiences as to its accessibility. I am sincerely appreciative. Thanks. Sincerely, G. Norman, Esq. L.L.M. www.gnormanlaw.com From legal at s.ai Tue Dec 27 18:16:29 2016 From: legal at s.ai (Sai) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 11:16:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry as to Google Voice Accessibility? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use Google Voice routinely. It's a service, not just an app - voice.google.com. The associated Voice-specific app is partially deprecated and replaced with Google Hangouts, but still works partially as well. I mostly use it through the website and email notifications, so I'm not sure. I can't speak to its accessibility from voiceover or a screen reader, as I only rarely use those. Its transcriptions are okay, but like all untrained speech recognition it has frequent errors, even for things like phone numbers, especially if someone has an accent or a bad line. - Sai PS I know a couple people within Google who work on accessibility issues, but I'm not sure if they work on Voice. (Most of my Google contacts work on privacy or back-end systems.) If there is something broken about its accessibility, I can try to get a message to the right person. Others on list might have better contacts than I do, though, and my contacts probably aren't useful for general questions or learning the product, just for issues that need to be fixed. On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 5:36 AM, GL Norman via BlindLaw wrote: > Greetings: > > I hope that this finds all of you well. > > I am wondering as to the opinions of persons on this list as to the most accessible time tracking or case management software that might be available, if at all. > > Question: In related note, this inquires if anyone on this list service has utilized Google Voice, which I understand to be an app for the cellular that allows one to have an independent telephone number. A speaker at a conference for solo practitioners mentioned the app. If anyone has indeed utilized the app, I wonder your experiences as to its accessibility. > > I am sincerely appreciative. Thanks. > > > Sincerely, > G. Norman, Esq. L.L.M. > www.gnormanlaw.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/legal%40s.ai From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 21:09:18 2016 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:09:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for articles for Young Lawyers Division Disability Rights Committee newsletter Message-ID: <01ca01d26085$92f45a50$b8dd0ef0$@gmail.com> Hello everyone, Reminder that the ABA Young Lawyers Division Disability Rights Committee, www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/committees/disability_rights.html , will be publishing our second quarterly newsletter on January 19. We are looking for more short articles and op-eds to include. The articles we received for our fall newsletter were great and we'd love more on a wide variety of interesting topics. If anyone would like to write something, please let me know and have your article to me by the first week of January. Again, the articles should be short, regarding recent legal developments or relevant tenets of law (approximately 200-300 words). Some suggestions for articles are: current relevant topics (such as discussing a recent significant court opinion or case in disability rights, upcoming significant Supreme Court decision, a legal event or cconference that just occurred), a discussion about being an attorney with a disability and your concerns/challenges in the legal profession, etc. Some examples of op-eds are: Lessons from One of America's Best Advocates, Sexism in the Legal Field, Reflections of a Young Trial Attorney, etc. Note that if you want to publish an article in our newsletter, we must be your first place of publication. So please do not send an article that has already been published somewhere else, not even for another newsletter. If interested in writing an article, please email me ASAP at deepa_goraya at washlaw.org . Additionally, separate from the newsletter, we are also looking for 101/201 practice series articles throughout the year. 101/201 Practice Series articles are online resources for new lawyers covering basic training in both substantive and practical aspects of law practice. So they would be posted to our Committee website. These articles are typically longer than the short articles contained in Newsletters-approximately 600 words. While Practice Series articles are longer, and tend to be more substantive in nature, it is important to note that these are not "law review" articles-they are simple, short articles that discuss important substantive and/or practical aspects of law practice. They can vary in terms of topic, but should have some nexus to the work of the Disability Rights Committee. Please see here for 101/201 examples: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/publications/the_101_201_pra ctice_series/women_minority_lawyers.html; http://www.americanbar.org/groups/young_lawyers/publications/the_101_201_pra ctice_series.html. If interested in writing a 101/201 piece, please email me at deepa_goraya at washlaw.org . Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. From sy.hoekstra at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 22:33:45 2016 From: sy.hoekstra at gmail.com (Sy Hoekstra) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 17:33:45 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for anyone who has been impacted by Barbri Bar Review's inaccessibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <019001d26091$49ef7540$ddce5fc0$@gmail.com> Hi Deepa, I think I have contacted you before regarding this suit, but in case I am wrong, I took Barbri in the summer of 2014 in NY and had many accessibility problems. Best regards and Happy New Year! Sybren Hoekstra -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:05 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Deepa Goraya Subject: [blindlaw] looking for anyone who has been impacted by Barbri Bar Review's inaccessibility Hello everyone, As you may remember, the Washington Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights filed a class action lawsuit in the Northern District of Texas against Barbri, Inc. on behalf of a putative class of blind students. The lawsuit, Stanley, et al. v. Barbri, Inc., Civil Action No. 16-cv-01113-BK, concerns accessibility of the Barbri bar review website and mobile application, which are not fully accessible to talking screen readers, making it difficult to get access to all the study tools and course materials. Additionally, the materials provided in alternate formats are often not delivered on time and are not complete. Briefing is complete on Barbri’s motion to dismiss, and we are entering the discovery phase. Our motion for class certification will be due in February. In advance of that motion, we would like to hear from people who have been impacted by Barbri’s inaccessibility. If anyone who is legally blind has either taken Barbri between April of 2014 and the present, wanted to take Barbri between April of 2014 and the present but was deterred because you knew they were not accessible, or is currently taking or planning to take Barbri, please get in touch with me. You can email me at deepa_goraya at washlaw.org or call me at 202-319-1000 and ask for Deepa Goraya. Deepa DEEPINDER K. GORAYA, ESQ. | STAFF ATTORNEY, DISABILITY RIGHTS PROJECT WASHINGTON LAWYERS' COMMITTEE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS AND URBAN AFFAIRS 11 Dupont Circle,NW, Suite 400 | Washington, DC 20036 202-319-1000 X132 | Fax 202-319-1010 This email message is from an attorney and may contain information that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please immediately advise the sender that this message was inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this message, along with any attachments. Please note that if you are an attorney who received this email about a prospective client, you must maintain the confidences of the prospective client. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Dec 28 09:33:04 2016 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (Ray Wayne) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 04:33:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Access to Cable on Demand Message-ID: <08756EEA890C4B74979519230EB5DE7B@RayWaynePC> Hi All: Does anyone know of any regulation pertaining to access to services that sighted people access using their cable or TV remote, such as "On Demand", or Pay Per View"? Thanks in advance. Sleepless in Brooklyn. Ray Wayne