From rene0373 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 16:52:31 2016
From: rene0373 at gmail.com (Elizabeth Rene)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 09:52:31 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] fascinating story
Message-ID: <449FC9A5-C0CD-4830-9639-23D31FA5D5C7@gmail.com>

Scott, I heard this yesterday on NPR and tried to send the online clip to you, but it wouldn't share.
Couldn't NFB file an amicus brief here? Shouldn't it? I'd love to work on it. This sounds like a Brown v Board of Education type case as it affects the civil rights of kids with disabilities.

Elizabeth M René 
Attorney at Law 
WSBA #10710 
KCBA #21824
rene0373 at gmail.com 

From ttomasi at driowa.org  Tue Nov  1 16:57:05 2016
From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 16:57:05 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] fascinating story
In-Reply-To: <449FC9A5-C0CD-4830-9639-23D31FA5D5C7@gmail.com>
References: <449FC9A5-C0CD-4830-9639-23D31FA5D5C7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN2PR20MB083023EDDBFB7A680C0E7E1BD1A10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Nina Totenberg did a nice piece on Fry on Morning Edition yesterday:
http://www.npr.org/2016/10/31/499876610/a-girl-and-her-service-dog-head-to-the-supreme-court





Tai Tomasi, J.D.

Staff Attorney







400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300

Des Moines, Iowa 50309

Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502

FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711

E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org

www.driowa.org



Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE



This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.





-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 11:53 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: Elizabeth Rene <rene0373 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] fascinating story



Scott, I heard this yesterday on NPR and tried to send the online clip to you, but it wouldn't share.

Couldn't NFB file an amicus brief here? Shouldn't it? I'd love to work on it. This sounds like a Brown v Board of Education type case as it affects the civil rights of kids with disabilities.



Elizabeth M René

Attorney at Law

WSBA #10710

KCBA #21824

rene0373 at gmail.com<mailto:rene0373 at gmail.com>

_______________________________________________

BlindLaw mailing list

BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>

http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org

To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:

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From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  1 17:52:00 2016
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (rjaquiss)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 10:52:00 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] fascinating story
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB083023EDDBFB7A680C0E7E1BD1A10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <449FC9A5-C0CD-4830-9639-23D31FA5D5C7@gmail.com>
	<SN2PR20MB083023EDDBFB7A680C0E7E1BD1A10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <002501d23468$a6036850$f20a38f0$@earthlink.net>

Hello:

     I find it interesting that while one school was cruel to the student, her second school embraced the student and her service dog. Hopefully, the Supreme Court will issue a favorable decision. Otherwise, we will have to unleash some biting comments.

Regards,

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 9:57 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Tai Tomasi; Elizabeth Rene
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] fascinating story

Nina Totenberg did a nice piece on Fry on Morning Edition yesterday:
http://www.npr.org/2016/10/31/499876610/a-girl-and-her-service-dog-head-to-the-supreme-court





Tai Tomasi, J.D.

Staff Attorney







400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300

Des Moines, Iowa 50309

Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502

FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711

E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org

www.driowa.org



Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE



This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.





-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 11:53 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: Elizabeth Rene <rene0373 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] fascinating story



Scott, I heard this yesterday on NPR and tried to send the online clip to you, but it wouldn't share.

Couldn't NFB file an amicus brief here? Shouldn't it? I'd love to work on it. This sounds like a Brown v Board of Education type case as it affects the civil rights of kids with disabilities.



Elizabeth M René

Attorney at Law

WSBA #10710

KCBA #21824

rene0373 at gmail.com<mailto:rene0373 at gmail.com>

_______________________________________________

BlindLaw mailing list

BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>

http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org

To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:

http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org
_______________________________________________
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From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Tue Nov  1 17:53:29 2016
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 17:53:29 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Project Safety, King County,
 Staff Attorney Position Seattle
Message-ID: <CY1PR09MB1146A610534F03DB9D633766F9A10@CY1PR09MB1146.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>



From: fangseattle at googlegroups.com [mailto:fangseattle at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daquiz, Abigail - SOL
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 10:31 AM
To: fangseattle at googlegroups.com
Subject: [fangs] Project Safety, King County, Staff Attorney Position

Please see the attached posting from King County Bar Association’s Pro Bono Services office—

Abigail G. Daquiz
U.S. Department of Labor | Office of the Solicitor | 206.757.6753 (direct)

From: Threesa Milligan [mailto:ThreesaM at kcba.org]
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:57 PM
To: ATJ Community
Subject: [atj-community] Staff Attorney opening

We are advertising for a VOCA funded staff attorney position.  Please distribute the attached job announcement to anyone who might be interested.  Thank you so much.

Threesa Milligan
Director, Pro Bono Services
King County Bar Association
1200 5th Ave., Suite 700
Seattle, WA 98101
(206) 267-7018
threesam at kcba.org<mailto:threesam at kcba.org>


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From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com  Tue Nov  1 17:58:13 2016
From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 11:58:13 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] STATE OF COLORADO BALLOT ISSUES
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB083023EDDBFB7A680C0E7E1BD1A10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <449FC9A5-C0CD-4830-9639-23D31FA5D5C7@gmail.com>
	<SN2PR20MB083023EDDBFB7A680C0E7E1BD1A10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <014101d23469$83fafc40$8bf0f4c0$@com>

Hi Everyone:  

If you live in the great Centennial state of Colorado, you obtain the 2016
ballot issues in an accessible format at the following website:

http://www2.cde.state.co.us/ctbl/resources/2016_Legislative_Blue_Book.html  

All the best, and please make sure you make me a WRITE-IN candidate, I
promise to serve for 24 hours and then quit!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado




---
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From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Nov  3 20:17:46 2016
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 20:17:46 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Position at UW School of Law
In-Reply-To: <LYRIS-9689257-169899-2016.11.03-13.01.20--noel.nightingale#ed.gov@list.wsba.org>
References: <LYRIS-9689257-169899-2016.11.03-13.01.20--noel.nightingale#ed.gov@list.wsba.org>
Message-ID: <CY1PR09MB1146CC557378521A00307FF7F9A30@CY1PR09MB1146.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>



From: WSBA Diversity [mailto:diversity at wsba.org]
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 1:01 PM
To: Diversity Stakeholders
Subject: [diversity-stakeholders] Position at UW School of Law

Below is a job posting from UW School of Law to share with your networks. Please contact Summer Korst, Director of Human Resources if you have questions about this posting.

Summer Korst
Director of Human Resources
UW School of Law
p: 206.221.5841
summerd at uw.edu<mailto:summerd at uw.edu>


The Director for Marketing and Communications leads all internal and external communications for the University of Washington School of Law, including branding, marketing, media relations, advertising, and social media. This position works closely with University Marketing & Communications to align the School's communications and marketing with those of the UW as a whole, and with the Assistant Dean for Advancement, Law School Administration, academic leaders, advancement staff, and volunteers to develop, implement and evaluate a strategic and comprehensive plan for marketing and communications for the UW School of Law. The Director assumes a key leadership role in initiating and implementing marketing and communications projects and media/public relations efforts that keep the School's internal and external constituencies informed, and enhance the overall image, awareness, and fundraising activities of the school.

http://hr.uw.edu/jobs/  Req # 137534.

https://uwhires.admin.washington.edu/eng/candidates/default.cfm?szCategory=jobprofile&szOrderID=137534&szCandidateID=0&szSearchWords=&szReturnToSearch=1

Summer Korst
Director of Human Resources
UW School of Law
p: 206.221.5841
summerd at uw.edu<mailto:summerd at uw.edu>

Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity Program Team
Washington State Bar Association |* 206.733.5945|F 206.727.8318 | Diversity at wsba.org<mailto:Diversity at wsba.org>
1325 Fourth Avenue #600 | Seattle, WA 98101-2539 | www.wsba.org<http://www.wsba.org/>


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From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Fri Nov  4 14:50:12 2016
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. Labarre)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 08:50:12 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] {Disarmed} FW: Job Opportunities in the Massachusetts
 Trial Court and Appeals Court - 11/4/16
In-Reply-To: <1126319979347.1116406273370.1470612392.0.301016JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com>
References: <1126319979347.1116406273370.1470612392.0.301016JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com>
Message-ID: <000501d236aa$bfbab430$3f301c90$@labarrelaw.com>

fyi

 

From: The Human Resources Department [mailto:hr.department at jud.state.ma.us] 
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2016 8:17 AM
To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com
Subject: Job Opportunities in the Massachusetts Trial Court and Appeals Court - 11/4/16

 

  <http://r20.rs6.net/on.jsp?a=1116406273370&r=3&c=128554d0-8a30-11e6-ae05-d4ae528440e0&d=1126319979347&ch=14ae2840-8a30-11e6-ae06-d4ae528440e0&ca=80c2c59d-1d5c-45b0-ba24-edf6d416c2ef&o=https://imgssl.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/s.gif> 




  <http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/spacer.gif> 

 	




 

  <http://files.constantcontact.com/a55dffee301/6395e0f0-32dd-442b-8614-e3ed814e4232.jpg> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Massachusetts Trial Court and the Appeals Court have the following new job opportunities:





*	Court Administrator Executive Office of the Trial Court open until filled <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkopvDCcOJ3AgEiSV6Kbtz7wOJ8DLI8kLRYHPJrjLSGOMtiA579NrBz8QSlQzQS67vrEuEpe5-FJ0JVo3z-xmW-PI443L39H2WGULt3cGh95_fTwnT1kKBaI-7Potl8Sw6ZLWtRSQUeA1rXYnFSTsKC0Owa7WcvsPQtUwnWikylarZ2ku9kGXJen3UkHJKT-QZEmx003UlN0tPJ6f8sXzeTvA==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Administrative Coordinator - Office of Jury Commissioner closing on 11/13/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkowrquSdV-kqXYgr76CzbQqCL3hphhBXcHDC2ltK_5h_1PZptij0UmCDwwutxPDiXdYxIyFc7ZV5WeQSS7qszzVFhW40QWn1JJAWno0SwXgOeNuMv50V5vKebECPU6pDniuAaF3RD7CUh-PR4dlFOPbQdyns6lfaL8AqgC_2A-7xOymKNN5ebyxGAgGnPkuJ9oUjeGg4KW3waIqYxtiV9LvZlUSS9yIKrjwohHkfp59WJFX2OkD-Lol_vE13JgxQK1&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Assistant Clerk - Hampden Superior Court closing on 11/14/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmsTGFwWsoEPxC-B0werI25UR9rz_qIAxnllwvUPQYRtsfVlweWhYnPMJCBK56wBuLasUbS9d6Kr0kd9eL1weCKuoG79qv-fReTeecjsxQtAipsJ0zY_LJYR-Qu9RPXdmD_jUFjim9kJENFsYJEc7W2DmrnjcKTXP8bp6Bx8pHYSTtgVyd6Y6dU_0Tk55VClDgLkkwyrkMlppst5AloT_MUFd68wKdgA-81L_IIKST-p8LV89NpsDXtc=&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Lowell District Court closing on 11/16/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkoQjGjPxJnCfbkHuhBExhntRspDN89D7EJIOx3E-2cIH78kfKxJuWf4uoFehT5itM_z28ULjhqXtaCgZroIhAcQkX_u4q9Z9xQupS12eubA9F6K8i6yBagmt3hmE22rXsyx-SjryKylQiTNhqDMZUdsFHJX0EhxW-2f-nWb5vxdUb96GMIjNRCTGG_RVmj88AtmHI_qQkPSTs=&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist - Framingham/Natick District Court closing on 11/16/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkorDTAvrpg7aUhPJyLS8omd-nmv0OVWGWfmmMGL7xuc_Tpu4Og2E4qvm8x072LaHXzohmClE3E5_dZ6qaN_s9gPCnmn6Q-yVn-K0QchJYrloqE1xU4xl28t2fzCA218M5uLBzn0TQ_QDwvS_X-oNeP67oME8sRz_m4hQL9lrFkPhgLlEDTZ83S_YvE2WEWg_5g4mYxHc9aPp6HAYgVKjQIsAzACFUjxgiokcducRf5oCtAy0UlTs5dYUtcoHNO2u3i&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Series East Brookfield District Court closing on 11/6/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmkKWkt50YTDmYAurfWpi6NZ_zjCN7_XQAi9DabbFJIepgSixCjsEv-jN1qETI7tQ5ZtLSnkDhFIsJKxd2JdCcXq8CC2q_2FkrpsZvJY-zCnh-BQPtOJC1YXA5uEVmf0eXw7L0LDZrjIoqMGjk0i0HwIn6H0sGmlVLOhNHop_sWQF2Fy8w9T8K2Ev4T1urDTZCQ3ZuzO757tpP4saJFYPF5p6jBDhhVNbdQ==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Series Taunton District Court closing on 11/14/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkorHaKeUB6nwfWVxb3-GGYQYSOPEIWLbEiYY933nA3IyayEA39Hf151J7jKOI4kcV9DMCfiaxKHwVWuXxQmYggE4CttaCUftTSiWpiSwcoaEYwgzH6OYTZWuah8WglEMWISJ8VDma7DsASuv1uIc2WzMDceWX6WYF5inDUdU1QzwOC-16uiMPPl2KXRFvjOMqGaNkwrkCEUdeyOZSOEwlW8A==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Series Worcester Superior Court closing on 11/15/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lko56H5RSuJy97Dd4Ge2fWszzU-nWmgfgbOPQfbfnlYFDVzE2DAsyW6YZI3ct1LqyK_DCbvsw0KHZBQZJJ3c6y6esavR99cF9waf5-250H28cRSY7xstR2xXVko-LJOQbDZPFwwRYs_PBv2BtAnGYp8khT6RP05qlyGGa_D21gimSex8BxnYOo8lesfWAzAsTDcPdc-QhZpWyexiDh_DBO6Tg==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Series Suffolk Superior Court - Civil closing on 11/15/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkoNaJKwMHuk3HIkogd8BqImPPiH7filZCpBNlcF_bEBaAyBGca3qoVySsxrH-L33u67xaVKVSdaM8md5CHW2OVPlcpjwbR-EoijbYErKTnDLZh-Tm2YuN1aYsut_LYZUl8iXePGLJNcqMNw9y1WGfK_Sw-238MbdnUUmfOYonsHp_wCtouys4lYdgNXmn5A6g0W8EDzK7OnOS-0FgY_aikcA==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Series Norfolk Superior Court closing on 11/15/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lko_sRPga9I6-8aD55IO9KQdm2xpKc6AQ_PsMiRyScUcc_J-NLYKB5i0QOZ4n6gmjIIq1LMq6HxyByqxN6T0iGhXZ3AHZpEBXKczUsbFGhxph7zYvgrmMSQo1tXEler0eU1ElFXRRGvEPOmpfsZurXAIIHJTsyzouCrt6Z38EGVVpdUgvkg6UKXRZAw-i-UTES1mVtyDyQwDkHuqM_skIWvsw==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Series Bristol Superior Court closing on 11/15/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkoqN37uYf6TP20oZwmRkHzl9tHAejNrJxsja5B0sW2eTaCDkpE0HX7yPxntLPJjYQ4zKxeZNyx5DGdX3z2oSzsawpafmOAyU31LMnN5sKfLOslOgvNLVUvhWagDYrZnk1BOgYxwlVy6tQAeW0M0EPwz-G3xgZnN3mlhSEmmETB3z-qvohD30g_gfp5hzz985UQzpRRpNkzaYsbnMpggwgXOg==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Series Springfield District Court closing on 11/15/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkode0y3gqIcdAjwSbWxiVIOnBk528s1z2s3hlsAxyrtysPBBR8rJ1f1eBS6YjHBgKnxxX5OrixXw1_mR5GeeP4llXjr5f68_2ELQKj6DUojR9I9zF3aVS88fh8bxfnSxniYMr4HqtvmKVGf1dsag1rjPG3Q39bQdpgmO5CHmEG8_slxVcZDuJVfFC0rLuSUOzlkKMRxNSNZQWJeBCl9htIyA==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Series Fitchburg District Court closing on 11/16/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lko16yjJGimXtAUJcv5xG9z-KtSwqJAjLNF7YcEaqFxd05bzScidkHBl60KVPvEpSNMP-2TV3wAzIarnhPUdSlgZu1k0SW-nuWSoOycH1xSArmtLgzdMI2gV-2IaWpkWUAApKd9YznLB_zF7dH6vj2_IiAGRo3y4uUeK_Z1jxXsGzHZ7EwW2OmnaQsqRwFjOH66KQ06yfokgl-hl18k26si6g==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Case Specialist Series Worcester District Court closing on 11/20/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkopMUYyapAAzb4d6NAKMNvcrdsFJ9B1ELGaUR6ebP790pWkdzQW-iBhG2CqopabB1BTUt9xeaX4lncbuKwAtDMsSINjxZQPdS1GSVPWDP-ZEeCTWeAOHfxIhwtdOosZ9Y8GpeyUTj5dd5F_OlXNCpx65S_Y5bDDIlIV5lEZfiOnr5q6rBTzwGLD3vp0NVjsq1zK_xCmlhS5XJPHC-jjjoO1A==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Housing Specialist - Boston Housing Court closing on 11/9/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lko2P2mszBr8YIe2D2toUe94ffWJZD6bfIbNNwOmyT3qq-dnRNnl_wfPNjnmsBL1cDkfpWCPwsNK0WDdkSLXEF9f0vgMJlCVbz7C3YicV_OY3xz-QV_-SoWA4YJL45gPSm1henlutUtjU7nnCe8inL5TdnUIQRLH21-10eGvHtr7MeiRHvCL7ItKsiB0wv_Gv-agcswMGrCe7IoRDM3mxYGWYE05R4v7tYByYkjK3_k_aU=&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Housing Specialist - Northeast Housing Court closing on 11/9/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkop-ZKpTcR5C2eCDjCYnbSdMgTeB9EBMgKIpsbCta6hq6zjw_nd3hmuv-dK68gplJESav-HMW9GDdbIPgZepyxKDZwQ_42jdGA2QwXLDsQL9vP6XnaN7ohjeQGvTTVe-OaTsKDCFfECbdGsoglCApIEfQywRirXCleMhcemx9YYaZmNO8Wu_ax_OHtGzeviLE3w07aqqkVctQ-o2--8Tx9uefB8VzG43F9FnhIXLUsdu70T8NrS9Hyew==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Housing Specialist - Southeast Housing Court closing on 11/9/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkovK31Ipjq2xttuDUh-COOR0xAlwvJG7uflgyFoN3UPZdJHgAugY2nVpME72RpWTH1OTd5urJb7cG43V1Xhfs9PLoS-Emx3FmJj-d1OS4qju6B8EJjioRaRhbk2ZWyumaccY7RaG0qPOwiEBsbvRC33P-0hW6Rr-uPk9GysDp6jiwIseV3aYz91SJqH3Yxd1nQoMUGzdNPlF5ck6aIFXINc3IKiuG63oV0MFPOa1GWKDoy-IWK5HwMVg==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Law Clerk for the Justices of the Probate and Family Court closing on 11/10/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmkKWkt50YTDmqNxIDXu4c-cFTDSXnJLIsL9rCIrvP9mRqvOxOdgGlWv7idJermzOVhinsG9Hx1Wk9I0xXSxub4z_UK0WIBiVuyH-51fy_xPto5Uhnv-rHAGgnbh2VmECfiShBwqD58iWHozxQefcBNsMK6AbfXtabm2XCbhDlADAiIqTNDZeih-doa8-OnqlWcGyD40RrBWOl0Yt2-D471zsLWTEPKRjqacN2PP54nwVpgz0r-qLcQS7qhSh3ZG4wyPTzi-m2T8rqKRpvMb0nDk=&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Law Clerk for the Justices of the Superior Court closing on 11/28/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkoZ9qxQkYPf9pKMW32r2XfIyxQWnERqJfpVHsV_Fu7PkFsFbO2A5nqKXs7iZE_OJN8V4-sqtT0gk4ypwuuV0pG0658k2EHaFH_KQQSC3I6HCkWZdPeFr_vxpiphqGmBgk9GZya6kS33apbgC7JWb8CRnnrytNBFy5cMaTwOzwKzoQQCx6oiTrj9iqvcjfIsLBQvRRgA4xTje0PtBS8VMI4-jqWW9__3e2g5SETKHpYfTdYOueYqCjmoA==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Probation Case Specialist - Woburn District Court closing on 11/6/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmkKWkt50YTDmnIWxRyebHN1OBmahOdhCusULiBNQnZEhlyX5iqUVIkJUBgn_6DPWqJgVuWdnAPneA_hD21dqa6u39nlgZk4x1TLbGckpJy8Xg9DWNuthc5US4au_UScoXEip53Z5jT2pTvgMzDcVSzGFs02Shic4DjpSdORDu-ThpyKAvdoi8UuI31y8C4UYhQibb1qBCFuvUE45jz4FV9Lz7t-bC7WSBEVt4HLbkqExLhVvwuIroaVEdTEoRPYXWw==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Research Attorney I - Superior Court closing on 11/28/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkoyP1F_JwGjqWWzJz8pLs-GMl6f5ZNmu4oBONsSb0wFAASAvl4rxYeDkh-506wffcxRoA3k5EfIsRXMWm1uomYhhG7u4Iw-PkVx1DnqW6u6krwGIcYUsDJR6feRrV4lQMMDCr8Cs1LCG4ippvQ9js1XU4RDNA2OV1b5fCoitjVLIwnAI63PBUWd3tIuY50_4Pt9Q4hBR3tY0ro38BmKw5tinZP0xwgWJFUd7anbAXSl7I=&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Senior Manager for Access to Justice Executive Office of the Trial Court closing on 11/13/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmkKWkt50YTDmfmjGiKz2KQhqMjnBm_E6blh3pbuE7e4ejtdnVDNCkH_K-2ZpCiBMtJ9K_xpDJGSfht1inLie3rEOn5JovX0OCuO3DfjLbolFkmmeuXUi3sgkP8NNMhgDHykKgJCgyJvWvfv3doxc_WIYdwBNI_uOB717EdyrD1Rzldjo8MHHLv5WdtXFp6H3k1XnnncsF3_6oTPyPaz5HKY8gP0dr1-QsYAZsR1wXxx2DUzp-kPq42o=&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
*	Sessions Clerk Series Land Court Department closing on 11/16/2016 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001gOfwyB2Ors6VH3bwB3yMZGGkjpYaWt08xOl4crT2FtSWmMNTe63QmigLyxKe3lkoZ0pvuHhnvnuBWoB9YPTTQV0kU163gwp21SEyZ_CQKaB2_Cs6uidzsKQrGscaBBEBb8CnqY8fJliEUFqFQtZzl49DzBY_Zaef2xBIOqij06ksFaeYDZ4oj8cvCiQBCQF4j0NmbDQFQk_lZUrEock1hqlyOQ7St0x0yh41Mn7IM6Pk4LT706jAU2qw1xwz2MzG57ECl-rB2LZiYjBGFfXnlw==&c=gzZN00lGoRlvmau_0I0G3PSuF7_-K3-tX7t8S8xusEcYglOyls4wlQ==&ch=o9n0DxXl5TfZ9KLEESsDh_cGVI0bUzmQcF41ZZEOoeK2ST3hzU8eBw==> 
 

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From awebb2168 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 16:07:03 2016
From: awebb2168 at gmail.com (Andrew Webb)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 11:07:03 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] NexTalk and JAWS
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAHYywDP2eIpAv1lOz0Rea67CgAAAEAAAAAWoUU9IcFpBmB0zqzyFMeYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Hello,

 

Please forgive me as this question is a bit tangential to the purpose of the
list, though technically I think it qualifies as topical.  At the law office
where I practice, we sometimes receive calls from people who are deaf or
hard of hearing.  Others in the office use a program called NexTalk to
communicate with those callers . apparently NexTalk is an internet-based TTY
service.  The I T folks plan to install the program on my computer so that I
can use it for the same purpose.  This is great, except that the office has
never had a blind employee except for me, thus I am not certain if NexTalk
is accessible via JAWS.  I have been unable to verify this so far, either
through direct experience or through online research.  So, does anyone here
know whether NexTalk is accessible via JAWS?  (I have version 17.)

 

Thanks,

Andrew

 


From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Tue Nov  8 18:15:05 2016
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2016 18:15:05 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Vacancy-Supervisory General Attorney (Civil Rights),
 GS-0905-15 - Kansas City
Message-ID: <CY1PR09MB11463D7B9F8D553D8AFB2132F9A60@CY1PR09MB1146.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>



From: Spratley, Lakesha
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 10:10 AM
To: OCR All Users
Cc: Boone, Nichelle
Subject: Vacancy-Supervisory General Attorney (Civil Rights), GS-0905-15

*Supervisory General Attorney (Civil Rights), GS-0905-15

Announcement Number: KC-OCR-2017-0001
Opens: 11/7/2016
Closes: 11/29/2016
Series & Grade: GS-0905-15/15
Salary Range: $117,519.00 to $152,780.00 / Per Year
Location: Kansas City, MO
Promotion Potential: GS-15
Supervisory Status: Yes

**Moving expenses are not authorized.


Who May Apply: This announcement is open to all U.S. Citizens. This is an Excepted Service position. The job will be filled by alternative hiring process and is not in the competitive civil service. Applicants selected for an excepted service position are subject to a one-year trial period. One or more positions may be filled through this vacancy.

This position is located in the Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights (OCR), Kansas City, MO.

Click the link below to view the announcement:

Kansas City- USAJOBS<https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/455844900/>


Lakesha Spratley
Management and Program Analyst
U.S. Department of Education
Office for Civil Right
400 Maryland Avenue SW, Room  4C148
Washington, DC  20202
Office: 202-453-6916
Lakesha.spratley at ed.gov


From tim at timeldermusic.com  Tue Nov  8 18:24:30 2016
From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2016 10:24:30 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [Nfbc-info] {Disarmed} Blind lawyer fights for
 rights of people facing disabilities
In-Reply-To: <3D94925EFA4346D3A8069DD6AB439C50@nancyPC>
References: <3D94925EFA4346D3A8069DD6AB439C50@nancyPC>
Message-ID: <000001d239ed$58bb0690$0a3113b0$@timeldermusic.com>

Good article below about one of our own:

The following article is forwarded to you by the Great Lakes ADA Center (www.adagreatlakes.org) for your information:

 

Chicago Law Bulletin

Feature Article of the Day 11/07/16

 

Blind lawyer fights for rights of people facing disabilities

By Emily Donovan, Law Bulletin Staff Writer

 

Recently, Andrew R. Webb called a client to ask her to describe something she had sent him. It was a diagram of the medical equipment he was helping her apply for. “She said, ‘I don’t know why you’re asking this; I sent you the picture of it,’” Webb said. Most of the clients he works with communicate over the phone and have no idea. “I said, ‘I’ll let you in on a little secret: I’m actually blind,’” Webb said. There was dead silence on the other end of the phone. “I think for a second she thought I was joking,” Webb said. “After she got over the initial shock, she was actually quite impressed.”

 

Webb, an Equal Justice Works fellow at Equip for Equality sponsored by McDermott Will & Emery LLP, provides educational materials and legal representation to Illinois residents with disabilities. He helps them access health care and services and appeals insurance providers’ denials when necessary.

 

Given the right training, tools and opportunity, Webb said blind people like him work as competently as any other attorneys. That’s the whole idea behind his work. He said people with disabilities who don’t get the medical care and training they need are at risk of losing their independence.

 

“Knowing for myself the importance of quality training and services and technology, that’s an opportunity I want to help extend to other people with disabilities across the state,” Webb said.

Webb was sighted for the first three decades of his life. He got his J.D., litigated defense insurance at a big firm in Chicago and moved to San Francisco to work at a boutique firm there.

 

He has a connective-tissue disorder that makes him hearing impaired and makes his eyes susceptible to catastrophic injury. He wears protective glasses but lost sight in one eye as a child. In 2007, when he was 32, he wasn’t wearing his glasses and someone bumped him in the other eye with their elbow.

 

Despite three years of “many, many” surgeries to try to preserve his vision, the injury left him completely blind by his mid-30s.

 

“Didn’t work out, but I can at least say I learned enough ophthalmology in the process to carry a cocktail party conversation,” Webb laughed.

 

Webb said he always objectively knew losing his sight was a possibility, but that he avoided thinking about it as much as possible.

 

“The reality of that settling in took some getting used to,” he said.

 

Webb met with the California Department of Rehabilitation and set his goal of getting back to a law career. After attending a blindness rehabilitation training program in Minnesota, Webb moved back to Chicago in 2011 with his wife and kids, later starting his master of laws in child and family law at Loyola University Chicago Law School. He volunteered at Equip for Equality to redevelop his legal skills and get more exposure to special education and civil rights issues for people with disabilities.

 

Despite 2015 being the 25th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act, those with disabilities still have a high unemployment rate. Equip for Equality Vice President of the Civil Rights Team Barry C. Taylor said law school administrators found students with disabilities equally competent as other students but had a harder time getting jobs. Furthermore, Taylor said the law school administrators said while some employers had started recruiting women, people of color and members of the LGBT community, but people with disabilities had not been incorporated into diversity plans.

 

An organization called the ADA 25 Advancing Leadership formed to create a pipeline of civic leaders with disabilities in Chicago. Taylor said they wanted to create a legacy project, something that would at least symbolically address the high unemployment rate for people with disabilities, so they created a fellowship with Equal Justice Works.

Tammy Sun, Equal Justice Works senior manager of fellowships, said she was impressed by Webb and his idea to provide legal aid to people with disabilities seeking medical services.

“He just blew us away,” said Tammy Sun, Equal Justice Works senior manager of fellowships.

 

Webb said people’s impressions of him and of how capable blind people are can depend on him presenting himself with confidence and competence when he walks into a room.

“I find that if I come across as well-prepared in a discussion with other practitioners, that soon enough other people tend to forget or not focus on the blindness,” he said.

For Equal Justice Works fellowships, recently graduated attorney applicants pitch an idea of how they can serve an unmet legal need in the community and what public-interest legal organization they would work with. Equal Justice Works finds an organization to sponsor the fellow for two years.

 

Elizabeth P. Lewis, a partner at McDermott Will & Emery, which is funding Webb’s fellowship, said it’s unique and invaluable for a person with disabilities seeking legal help to get it from another person with disabilities.

 

Plus, people with disabilities are another aspect of diversity efforts that Lewis said fosters new ideas and a happy workplace. In fact, Lewis said McDermott’s diversity group has a subcommittee for people with disabilities.

 

“We view ourselves as a law firm in a unique position to bring about change in a lot of different ways, both as lawyers and also as corporate citizens and members of the communities,” Lewis said.

 

Webb said most people in the general public know of so few blind people that he sometimes has to teach people how capable a blind person can be. He said he enjoys that role.

 

“Most people’s interactions with blind people is so limited that anything I do in front of people who are meeting a blind person for the first time I think tends to have a powerful impact one way or another,” he said.

 

Webb said the few blind attorneys he met when he first lost his sight congratulated him on picking an excellent time in history to go blind.

 

Webb has a screen-reading computer program that verbalizes any text directly into his hearing aids. If he’s given a physical document, he can scan it with his iPhone to send it through the program. Ironically, he said, he now reads faster with text-to-speech software than before. He sets the computer voice on such a fast setting that people he plays it for can barely comprehend it.

 

“Usually, people ask what language I’m listening to,” he said.

 

Webb said it can be difficult to keep up in live time if he’s reviewing documents with opposing counsel, since he has to listen to the voices of other people while simultaneously listening to the computer voice, but it all comes with practice.

 

He said one of the biggest challenges of some work days is getting to the office in the first place. Each morning, Webb and his guide dog Lance take a Metra train from Glenview, then board a bus near Union Station to get to the Equip for Equality office at 20 N. Michigan Ave.

 

“It almost feels like running 10 miles to get to the start of a marathon at times,” he said.

 

Lance, whose wagging tail might whack filing cabinets, is a friendly black Labrador retriever. He takes a morning nap on the dog bed in Webb’s office as Webb starts work.

 

Source:  http://www.chicagolawbulletin.com/Articles/2016/11/07/Webb-blind-lawyer-11-7-16.aspx  (This is a subscription service and this article was provided as a “Free Featured Article” on 11-07-16 but may not be available after today to non-subscribers)
 

 

 
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From jpi4a11y at novaelis.com  Thu Nov 10 09:22:05 2016
From: jpi4a11y at novaelis.com (J. Isaac)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 01:22:05 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Amanuensis scribe for LSAT
Message-ID: <5F1994B5-C27B-447B-B123-68DE4064E9A6@novaelis.com>

Hi all,

How is an Amanuensis scribe designated for the LSAT?

I have sent multiple inquiries to LSAC, but they have been unresponsive.

Thanks,
== J



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Nov 10 21:41:40 2016
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 21:41:40 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] {Disarmed} FW: [Suspect Bulk Mail] Attorney Vacancies
 Update
In-Reply-To: <17850472.6886@public.govdelivery.com>
References: <17850472.6886@public.govdelivery.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR09MB11466949B5D08D54DBF62CC7F9B80@CY1PR09MB1146.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>

This sounds interesting...

From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 1:17 PM
To: Nightingale, Noel
Subject: [Suspect Bulk Mail] Attorney Vacancies Update

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Office of Legislative Affairs (OLA)
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Announcement #: OLA-2016-03
Application Deadline: November 29, 2016


The incumbent will be responsible for coordinating the timely intra-Departmental clearance of positions on legislative and other congressional matters, as set forth in draft proposals, letters, talking points, prepared statements for congressional hearings, and responses to questions for hearing records; coordinating the timely response to requests from OMB for the Department's views on legislation and other congressional positions proposed by other agencies, as set forth in draft legislation, letters, talking points, prepared statements, and responses to questions for hearing records; coordinating the timely clearance by OMB of the Department's positions on legislation and other congressional matters, as set forth in draft legislation, letters, talking points, prepared statements and responses to questions for hearing records; and generating clear concise records documenting the clearance process for OLA files.
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Office of Legislative Affairs (OLA)
United States Department of Justice
Washington, DC
Announcement #: OLA-2016-04
Application Deadline: November 29, 2016


The incumbent of this position serves as a liaison between the Department of Justice and Congress, communicating frequently with congressional staff about the Department's interests in legislation and other congressional matters.  The incumbent also is responsible for keeping Department officials apprised about the status and outlook for congressional action on matters of interest to the Department and assuring that the Department's views are presented to Congress in a timely and effective way.  The position requires the development of written views based upon input from Department components and the ability to present those views to congressional staff in order to protect the Department's equities and promote a constructive relationship with the Congress.


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From awildheir at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 02:56:30 2016
From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 21:56:30 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for study
 and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by the
 school
Message-ID: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>

Greetings everyone,

I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.  

My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance. We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of the restrictions, they violate the honor code.

Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?



Aimee

Sent from my iPhone

From PChang at nfb.org  Sat Nov 12 03:07:21 2016
From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 03:07:21 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EACFB5A-3D66-4E2D-BB80-A7A8D46B75BF@nfb.org>

I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If you rely too much on your readers for proofing then you do not become a really good proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students were lying to heavily on their proofers.



"Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the National Federation of the Blind."

Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
Director of Outreach
National Federation of the Blind
Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
Mobile: (773) 307-6440
WWW.NFB.org<http://WWW.NFB.org>

On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Greetings everyone,

I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.

My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance. We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of the restrictions, they violate the honor code.

Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?



Aimee

Sent from my iPhone
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From Attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Sat Nov 12 09:30:50 2016
From: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis, Esquire)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 04:30:50 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>

Aimee:

The short answer is no. But if you are so concerned about it, I would voice 
those concerns to your Dean of Students or Academic affair so that they are 
fully aware of those concerns. This is what accommodation is all about. IN 
the practice of law, I typically get my asssistants to sign a 
confidentiality document to protect myself/client.




Rod Alcidonis, Esq.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 9:56 PM
To: Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw
Cc: Aimee Harwood
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for study 
and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by the 
school

Greetings everyone,

I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform 
reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They 
will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them 
during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to 
locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of 
info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.

My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All 
graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance. 
We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way 
regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of 
the restrictions, they violate the honor code.

Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using 
a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the 
reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may 
have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the 
reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight 
what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader 
performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does 
the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of 
class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?



Aimee

Sent from my iPhone
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From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 16:27:09 2016
From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 16:27:09 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>
	<F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>
Message-ID: <CAGZitzLiHOhGYTPkFX4QT=LobQ4poSwwGrr5D3VVRr=M52rGng@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Have you asked the school to clarify its position on these issues i.e.
to say whether the school would wish to peenalize you?

On 11/12/16, Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Aimee:
>
> The short answer is no. But if you are so concerned about it, I would voice
>
> those concerns to your Dean of Students or Academic affair so that they are
>
> fully aware of those concerns. This is what accommodation is all about. IN
> the practice of law, I typically get my asssistants to sign a
> confidentiality document to protect myself/client.
>
>
>
>
> Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 9:56 PM
> To: Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw
> Cc: Aimee Harwood
> Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for study
> and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by the
> school
>
> Greetings everyone,
>
> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform
> reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They
>
> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them
> during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to
> locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of
> info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
>
> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All
>
> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance.
>
> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way
> regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of
> the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>
> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using
>
> a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the
> reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may
>
> have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the
>
> reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight
> what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader
>
> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does
>
> the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of
>
> class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
>
>
>
> Aimee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com
>


From michael.mcglashon at comcast.net  Sat Nov 12 18:22:09 2016
From: michael.mcglashon at comcast.net (mike mcglashon)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:22:09 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <CAGZitzLiHOhGYTPkFX4QT=LobQ4poSwwGrr5D3VVRr=M52rGng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com><F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>
	<CAGZitzLiHOhGYTPkFX4QT=LobQ4poSwwGrr5D3VVRr=M52rGng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C03E6C009DF4C0383BCB9559D261F6A@mcglashonHP>

Hi Guys:

I have been following this thread regarding the young lady who is worried 
about the academic integrity of utilizing a reader/assistant during her law 
school stent.  Keep in mind that as you read these remarks, I am not a 
licensed attorney as of the writing of this essay; nor am I currently 
enrolled as a student in an educational legal institution.  I have recently 
acquired a bachelor's degree in Paralegal Studies; and am in the process of 
applying to law school.  Having fired off these disclaimers, I shall address 
the matter from an overhead view of the situation.  It occurs to me that 
this is an issue of practicality versus legality.

The fact is, from where I sit, a reader/assistant is no more than a piece of 
necessary equipment to be used by blind individuals; no different than jaws, 
scanner, or some other technical device that a blind individual would 
utilize in everyday life let alone law school.  According to the young 
lady's testimony, the reader being sought/hired is backed by the "state". 
Since the law school is not directly involved in the selection and hiring 
process of said reader, they would have no standing to challenge or even 
interfere with the selection process.  Unless or until it is found by means 
of investigation that the reader and/or student engaged in some form of 
academic dishonesty, the school is on a need to know basis.  The fact that 
the student sought outside means to provide his/her own reader for 
assistance (including bnacking by the state), takes any and all insentives 
by a legal institution to interfere into such matters of which they are 
lacking familiarity.

It is this writer's position that the student is under no obligation to 
disclose to any educational institution that the student has acquired reader 
assistance in order to complete academic assignments adequately and in a 
timely manner.

Assuming that the state and the student in the instant case have engaged and 
negotiated all necessary hurdles such that the student has acquired the 
reader successfully, failure by the state to back the student's position in 
this matter could in fact, (not saying for sure) open doors of the state 
itself violating the "ADA" title III educational provision.  If the law 
school were to get jittery regarding the student's acquisition of a reader, 
it would behoove the state to interfere on her behalf.  In other words, the 
student would be best advised to step aside and let the school and the state 
duke it out and let the chips fall where they may.  After all, it is in the 
state's best interest to go to bat for the student, for they would not wish 
to endure a "ADA" claim where otherwise a reasonable remedy exists.

Therefore, the best practical relief here is for student to remain mum to 
the law school regarding the reader altogether and use the reader 
judiciously.  Having said this however, a recommendation to the student 
might be in order here.  Under no circumstances would I allow a reader to do 
any research for me.  Also, the reader's tasks may include formatting and 
font checks throughout documents to be presented.  In no way would I ask a 
reader to check the actual physical construct of citations;  simply that the 
formatting (small caps and font etc) is correct in comparison to a model of 
which the professors would most certainly provide; or, where such model 
could be obtained from the "blue book" or from one of the legal service 
libraries themselves; whichever the assignment calls for.

Finally, if the student takes such a high-road as expressed here, it is well 
within the student's best interest to become acquainted with fello 
colleagues in order to kick legal theories around and gain a better 
understanding of concepts.  Furthermore, from where I sit as an objective 
viewer of the situation, it would be most beneficial to the student to 
"always" be prepared for in class "on the fly" examination by professors. 
For this will go a long way in proving up the student's knowledge and desire 
to successfully complete his/her endeavor.  Moreover, these two plans of 
attack will benefit the student in such that the professors will go to bat 
on behalf of the student if necessary; they can testify as to aptitude and 
work ethic; thereby moving the law school's eyes from that of burocratic 
issues such as readers/assistants  to those of success by the student.

I say good luck to this young lady, and remember "your destiny is in your 
hands"; and, "you are your own captain of your own ship."  Fly her with 
dignity; but remember the seas of life are unforgiving so fly her with 
jurist prudence.

Sincerely,

Mike M.





-----Original Message----- 
From: Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 10:27 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Gerard Sadlier
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for 
study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by 
the school

Hi,

Have you asked the school to clarify its position on these issues i.e.
to say whether the school would wish to peenalize you?

On 11/12/16, Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> 
wrote:
> Aimee:
>
> The short answer is no. But if you are so concerned about it, I would 
> voice
>
> those concerns to your Dean of Students or Academic affair so that they 
> are
>
> fully aware of those concerns. This is what accommodation is all about. IN
> the practice of law, I typically get my asssistants to sign a
> confidentiality document to protect myself/client.
>
>
>
>
> Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 9:56 PM
> To: Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw
> Cc: Aimee Harwood
> Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for study
> and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by the
> school
>
> Greetings everyone,
>
> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform
> reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read. 
> They
>
> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them
> during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to
> locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of
> info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
>
> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. 
> All
>
> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside 
> assistance.
>
> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way
> regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of
> the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>
> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for 
> using
>
> a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the
> reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I 
> may
>
> have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using 
> the
>
> reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight
> what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the 
> reader
>
> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control 
> does
>
> the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside 
> of
>
> class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
>
>
>
> Aimee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40comcast.net 



From awildheir at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 18:56:34 2016
From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 13:56:34 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>
	<F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>
Message-ID: <B532CB00-7493-49B6-98FE-D8FAA7FA32A0@gmail.com>

Rod,

Thank you for your response. The individual over accommodations in my school is the director of student affairs. He influences everyone at the school up to the dean. I do not have a person at the school that I can feel comfortable going to regarding issues. I basically have to be my own attorney and spent hours researching things on Westlaw and Lexus to try and support my position. That's why I am reaching out to the group to find out how it is handled in practice and what my rights really are and how much power the law school has over certain things. I am the first student with significant vision loss as far as I know. I also have general anxiety disorder and ADHD. The individual administering accommodations at the school is primarily a professor. As we know, professors are the hardest to get to understand accommodations. They think most everything gives some sort of advantage instead of actually leveling the playing field in response to the disability or in my case disabilities. I greatly appreciate your input and hope that you have a wonderful day.

Aimee

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2016, at 4:30 AM, Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Aimee:
> 
> The short answer is no. But if you are so concerned about it, I would voice those concerns to your Dean of Students or Academic affair so that they are fully aware of those concerns. This is what accommodation is all about. IN the practice of law, I typically get my asssistants to sign a confidentiality document to protect myself/client.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 9:56 PM
> To: Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw
> Cc: Aimee Harwood
> Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by the school
> 
> Greetings everyone,
> 
> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
> 
> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance. We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
> 
> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
> 
> 
> 
> Aimee
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com


From laura.wolk at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 19:02:37 2016
From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 14:02:37 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
Message-ID: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>

This message is in response to Patti's observation that blind students
and attorneys sometimes rely too much on their readers, an observation
with which I generally agree.

But I don't think this is the entire problem.  i think, in large part,
blind people don't even know what questions to ask, because it is hard
to know what errors are out there unless someone thinks to tell you.
I have been inordinately blessed by friends who have given me tips and
tricks both on style and also on mechanics about which I was utterly
clueless.  Things like the fact that if you copy and paste directly
from Westlaw, your quotation marks and apostrophes will look different
than those that arise when typing directly into word. Or, if typing a
single-spaced document with footnotes, it may behoove you to put a
blank line between the footnotes for ease of a sighted person's
reading smaller text.  or that global format changes such as
justifying text "above the line" do not transfer to your footnotes,
resulting in your footnotes remaining unjustified.  Or how you can
connect a heading with the first line immediately following it to
ensure that your headings are never on one page with the accompanying
text on the next page.  These are all things about which I had no
intuitive knowledge as a completely blind person.  Without having been
told, I would never even have known to ask the question, and would
have continued turning in documents with quite obvious errors that
even proofing with braille would not have caught.

I think it would be beneficial for these purposes for the NFb lawyers
division to compile a list of similar formatting issues, perhaps in a
wiki-type format so that everyone could contribute.  Of course, some
of these things come down to stylistic preference, but many of them
don't.  Has anyone else ever thought of this?

Laura

On 11/11/16, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If you rely
> too much on your readers for proofing then you do not become a really good
> proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final
> instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students were
> lying to heavily on their proofers.
>
>
>
> "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the National
> Federation of the Blind."
>
> Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
> Director of Outreach
> National Federation of the Blind
> Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
> Mobile: (773) 307-6440
> WWW.NFB.org<http://WWW.NFB.org>
>
> On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>
> Greetings everyone,
>
> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform
> reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They
> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them
> during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to
> locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of
> info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
>
> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All
> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance.
> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way
> regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of
> the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>
> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using
> a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the
> reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may
> have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the
> reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight
> what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader
> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does
> the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of
> class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
>
>
>
> Aimee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
>
> Disclaimer
>
> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
> relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
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>


From Attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Sat Nov 12 19:45:28 2016
From: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis, Esquire)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 14:45:28 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0EF29E39230E4BBD932006F18101A050@RodTHINK>

Laura:

Excellent idea. In my practice, I can draft a document and be about 90 
percent confident that it is well-formatted by using a few tricks I also 
learned from an administrative assistant a few years ago. As oppose to 
asking her to correct my errors, we sat down and she told me the most common 
formatting errors that she had to fix in my documents that JAWS was not 
picking up on. I now follow a specific routine to finalize my drafts, even 
though  they might be error-free to a sighted person. That gives me a chance 
to fix some of the more obvious errors before final inspection by someone 
who's sighted. Notwithstanding this level of confidence, I would not file or 
submit a final document to the court or a professional colleague without 
first having it inspected by a sighted person. There are some funny things 
that Microsoft does on occasions that can only be observed with a pair of 
eyes.


Rod Alcidonis, Esq.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 2:02 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Laura Wolk
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers

This message is in response to Patti's observation that blind students
and attorneys sometimes rely too much on their readers, an observation
with which I generally agree.

But I don't think this is the entire problem.  i think, in large part,
blind people don't even know what questions to ask, because it is hard
to know what errors are out there unless someone thinks to tell you.
I have been inordinately blessed by friends who have given me tips and
tricks both on style and also on mechanics about which I was utterly
clueless.  Things like the fact that if you copy and paste directly
from Westlaw, your quotation marks and apostrophes will look different
than those that arise when typing directly into word. Or, if typing a
single-spaced document with footnotes, it may behoove you to put a
blank line between the footnotes for ease of a sighted person's
reading smaller text.  or that global format changes such as
justifying text "above the line" do not transfer to your footnotes,
resulting in your footnotes remaining unjustified.  Or how you can
connect a heading with the first line immediately following it to
ensure that your headings are never on one page with the accompanying
text on the next page.  These are all things about which I had no
intuitive knowledge as a completely blind person.  Without having been
told, I would never even have known to ask the question, and would
have continued turning in documents with quite obvious errors that
even proofing with braille would not have caught.

I think it would be beneficial for these purposes for the NFb lawyers
division to compile a list of similar formatting issues, perhaps in a
wiki-type format so that everyone could contribute.  Of course, some
of these things come down to stylistic preference, but many of them
don't.  Has anyone else ever thought of this?

Laura

On 11/11/16, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If you rely
> too much on your readers for proofing then you do not become a really good
> proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final
> instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students were
> lying to heavily on their proofers.
>
>
>
> "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the National
> Federation of the Blind."
>
> Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
> Director of Outreach
> National Federation of the Blind
> Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
> Mobile: (773) 307-6440
> WWW.NFB.org<http://WWW.NFB.org>
>
> On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>
> Greetings everyone,
>
> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform
> reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read. 
> They
> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them
> during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to
> locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of
> info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
>
> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. 
> All
> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside 
> assistance.
> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way
> regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of
> the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>
> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for 
> using
> a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the
> reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I 
> may
> have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using 
> the
> reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight
> what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the 
> reader
> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control 
> does
> the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside 
> of
> class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
>
>
>
> Aimee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
>
> Disclaimer
>
> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
> relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and 
> may
> be unlawful.
>
> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
> automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a
> Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for
> your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and
> compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
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_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From kelbycarlson at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 19:51:39 2016
From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 14:51:39 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
Message-ID: <20161112195139.kelbycarlson@gmail.com>

Rod,

I'm still in school, but will be doing a clinic next semester and will likely have to do filings. Would you mind describing the routine you use for your documents?

----- Original Message -----
From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via BlLaw  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
To: "Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Date: Saturday, November 12, 2016 2:46 pm
Subject: Re: [bllaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers

>
>
> Laura:
> 
> Excellent idea. In my practice, I can draft a document and be about 90 
> percent confident that it is well-formatted by using a few tricks I also 
> learned from an administrative assistant a few years ago. As oppose to 
> asking her to correct my errors, we sat down and she told me the most common 
> formatting errors that she had to fix in my documents that JAWS was not 
> picking up on. I now follow a specific routine to finalize my drafts, even 
> though  they might be error-free to a sighted person. That gives me a chance 
> to fix some of the more obvious errors before final inspection by someone 
> who's sighted. Notwithstanding this level of confidence, I would not file or 
> submit a final document to the court or a professional colleague without 
> first having it inspected by a sighted person. There are some funny things 
> that Microsoft does on occasions that can only be observed with a pair of 
> eyes.
> 
> 
> Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Laura Wolk via BlLaw
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 2:02 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Laura Wolk
> Subject: [bllaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
> 
> This message is in response to Patti's observation that blind students
> and attorneys sometimes rely too much on their readers, an observation
> with which I generally agree.
> 
> But I don't think this is the entire problem.  i think, in large part,
> blind people don't even know what questions to ask, because it is hard
> to know what errors are out there unless someone thinks to tell you.
> I have been inordinately blessed by friends who have given me tips and
> tricks both on style and also on mechanics about which I was utterly
> clueless.  Things like the fact that if you copy and paste directly
> from Westlaw, your quotation marks and apostrophes will look different
> than those that arise when typing directly into word. Or, if typing a
> single-spaced document with footnotes, it may behoove you to put a
> blank line between the footnotes for ease of a sighted person's
> reading smaller text.  or that global format changes such as
> justifying text "above the line" do not transfer to your footnotes,
> resulting in your footnotes remaining unjustified.  Or how you can
> connect a heading with the first line immediately following it to
> ensure that your headings are never on one page with the accompanying
> text on the next page.  These are all things about which I had no
> intuitive knowledge as a completely blind person.  Without having been
> told, I would never even have known to ask the question, and would
> have continued turning in documents with quite obvious errors that
> even proofing with braille would not have caught.
> 
> I think it would be beneficial for these purposes for the NFCbi'b lawyers
> division to compile a list of similar formatting issues, perhaps in a
> wiki-type format so that everyone could contribute.  Of course, some
> of these things come down to stylistic preference, but many of them
> don't.  Has anyone else ever thought of this?
> 
> Laura
> 
> On 11/11/16, Chang, Patti via BlLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If you rely
> > too much on your readers for proofing then you do not become a really good
> > proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final
> > instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students were
> > lying to heavily on their proofers.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the National
> > Federation of the Blind."
> >
> > Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
> > Director of Outreach
> > National Federation of the Blind
> > Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
> > Mobile: (773) 307-6440
> > WWW.NFB.org<http://WWW.NFB.org>
> >
> > On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlLaw
> > <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings everyone,
> >
> > I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform
> > reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read. 
> > They
> > will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them
> > during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to
> > locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of
> > info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
> >
> > My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. 
> > All
> > graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside 
> > assistance.
> > We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way
> > regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of
> > the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
> >
> > Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for 
> > using
> > a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the
> > reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I 
> > may
> > have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using 
> > the
> > reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight
> > what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the 
> > reader
> > performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control 
> > does
> > the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside 
> > of
> > class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
> >
> >
> >
> > Aimee
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > BlLaw:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
> >
> > Disclaimer
> >
> > The information contained in this communication from the sender is
> > confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
> > authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
> > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
> > relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and 
> > may
> > be unlawful.
> >
> > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
> > automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a
> > Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for
> > your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and
> > compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > BlLaw:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> BlLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com


From sy.hoekstra at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 20:21:20 2016
From: sy.hoekstra at gmail.com (Sybren Hoekstra)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 15:21:20 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>

This is a really good idea. It might also be useful to compile a list of the various tricks that people use with different screen readers to ensure proper formatting.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2016, at 14:02, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> This message is in response to Patti's observation that blind students
> and attorneys sometimes rely too much on their readers, an observation
> with which I generally agree.
> 
> But I don't think this is the entire problem.  i think, in large part,
> blind people don't even know what questions to ask, because it is hard
> to know what errors are out there unless someone thinks to tell you.
> I have been inordinately blessed by friends who have given me tips and
> tricks both on style and also on mechanics about which I was utterly
> clueless.  Things like the fact that if you copy and paste directly
> from Westlaw, your quotation marks and apostrophes will look different
> than those that arise when typing directly into word. Or, if typing a
> single-spaced document with footnotes, it may behoove you to put a
> blank line between the footnotes for ease of a sighted person's
> reading smaller text.  or that global format changes such as
> justifying text "above the line" do not transfer to your footnotes,
> resulting in your footnotes remaining unjustified.  Or how you can
> connect a heading with the first line immediately following it to
> ensure that your headings are never on one page with the accompanying
> text on the next page.  These are all things about which I had no
> intuitive knowledge as a completely blind person.  Without having been
> told, I would never even have known to ask the question, and would
> have continued turning in documents with quite obvious errors that
> even proofing with braille would not have caught.
> 
> I think it would be beneficial for these purposes for the NFb lawyers
> division to compile a list of similar formatting issues, perhaps in a
> wiki-type format so that everyone could contribute.  Of course, some
> of these things come down to stylistic preference, but many of them
> don't.  Has anyone else ever thought of this?
> 
> Laura
> 
>> On 11/11/16, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If you rely
>> too much on your readers for proofing then you do not become a really good
>> proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final
>> instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students were
>> lying to heavily on their proofers.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the National
>> Federation of the Blind."
>> 
>> Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
>> Director of Outreach
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
>> Mobile: (773) 307-6440
>> WWW.NFB.org<http://WWW.NFB.org>
>> 
>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings everyone,
>> 
>> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform
>> reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They
>> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them
>> during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to
>> locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of
>> info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
>> 
>> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All
>> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance.
>> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way
>> regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of
>> the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>> 
>> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using
>> a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the
>> reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may
>> have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the
>> reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight
>> what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader
>> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does
>> the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of
>> class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Aimee
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
>> 
>> Disclaimer
>> 
>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
>> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
>> relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
>> be unlawful.
>> 
>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
>> automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a
>> Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for
>> your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and
>> compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com


From awildheir at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 20:33:49 2016
From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 15:33:49 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <B532CB00-7493-49B6-98FE-D8FAA7FA32A0@gmail.com>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>
	<F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>
	<B532CB00-7493-49B6-98FE-D8FAA7FA32A0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0179FE28-AFBB-4844-8AF5-E39433F7B8DD@gmail.com>

Hello fellow listers,

I need to clarify my position on the reader in research. I only intend to use the reader for locating things on the screen or in the document visually I will do all of the research myself. I will not ask them to do any research or make sure that I am using correct citation as to the rules. The reader will be solely for visual aspects of the work. I only want to use the reader as any other blindness related tool.  

I have been out of school for 13 years and have not used JAWS in six of those years. Training is sparse here. I know enough to manage. I would imagine that once I am more proficient with jaws and things of the like, I will use a reader less as school goes on. I am working on my braille proficiency and speed as well. At this point it is a much better use of my time until I become faster on my own.  

I am not trying to have anyone do anything for me. That's not my position. I am very capable and high functioning once I learn how to do the things that I need to do. I understand that many of you may not really know me. And it would be easy to assume that I want someone to do the work for me. I don't. I hope you will consider looking at my requests in a different mindset. Miss Chang, I have not found your email regarding my post yet. I do hope you shared it with the group so that I may read it and find some wisdom within it. I would hope it was not sent to everyone except me.

In closing, I hope I have cleared things up a bit so that we can get conversations addressing the issues at hand regarding the school viewing most requests as an extra advantage over other students rather than leveling the playing field as well as increasing my understanding of what my rights actually are. I really do appreciate and value the input of the list especially because the majority of you guys have been out there and know more about the inner workings then those of us in law school.  You have the potential to be very helpful and insightful if you choose to.

Aimee

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Aimee Harwood <awildheir at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Rod,
> 
> Thank you for your response. The individual over accommodations in my school is the director of student affairs. He influences everyone at the school up to the dean. I do not have a person at the school that I can feel comfortable going to regarding issues. I basically have to be my own attorney and spent hours researching things on Westlaw and Lexus to try and support my position. That's why I am reaching out to the group to find out how it is handled in practice and what my rights really are and how much power the law school has over certain things. I am the first student with significant vision loss as far as I know. I also have general anxiety disorder and ADHD. The individual administering accommodations at the school is primarily a professor. As we know, professors are the hardest to get to understand accommodations. They think most everything gives some sort of advantage instead of actually leveling the playing field in response to the disability or in my case disabilities. I greatly appreciate your input and hope that you have a wonderful day.
> 
> Aimee
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 4:30 AM, Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Aimee:
>> 
>> The short answer is no. But if you are so concerned about it, I would voice those concerns to your Dean of Students or Academic affair so that they are fully aware of those concerns. This is what accommodation is all about. IN the practice of law, I typically get my asssistants to sign a confidentiality document to protect myself/client.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 9:56 PM
>> To: Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw
>> Cc: Aimee Harwood
>> Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by the school
>> 
>> Greetings everyone,
>> 
>> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
>> 
>> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance. We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>> 
>> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Aimee
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com


From awildheir at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 21:01:09 2016
From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 16:01:09 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>

Miss Chang,

It took a little digging with iOS new structure of emails but I found your email thread in response to my post asking questions about readers. It had a different subject and therefore was not a direct response to my post.

We have the same idea. But did someone throw you out the door and say have fun here you go or did they help you learn what needed to be corrected? It would not be wise to throw your dog out in the middle of a deep Lake without first making sure he could swim and helping him become a better swimmer before you throw him in the lake. 

Maybe we should consider developing a functional mentoring program. That could help eliminate some of these issues.  One can't really make an accurate assessment of another's character until they spend significant time interacting with that person.


Aimee

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Sybren Hoekstra via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> This is a really good idea. It might also be useful to compile a list of the various tricks that people use with different screen readers to ensure proper formatting.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 14:02, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> This message is in response to Patti's observation that blind students
>> and attorneys sometimes rely too much on their readers, an observation
>> with which I generally agree.
>> 
>> But I don't think this is the entire problem.  i think, in large part,
>> blind people don't even know what questions to ask, because it is hard
>> to know what errors are out there unless someone thinks to tell you.
>> I have been inordinately blessed by friends who have given me tips and
>> tricks both on style and also on mechanics about which I was utterly
>> clueless.  Things like the fact that if you copy and paste directly
>> from Westlaw, your quotation marks and apostrophes will look different
>> than those that arise when typing directly into word. Or, if typing a
>> single-spaced document with footnotes, it may behoove you to put a
>> blank line between the footnotes for ease of a sighted person's
>> reading smaller text.  or that global format changes such as
>> justifying text "above the line" do not transfer to your footnotes,
>> resulting in your footnotes remaining unjustified.  Or how you can
>> connect a heading with the first line immediately following it to
>> ensure that your headings are never on one page with the accompanying
>> text on the next page.  These are all things about which I had no
>> intuitive knowledge as a completely blind person.  Without having been
>> told, I would never even have known to ask the question, and would
>> have continued turning in documents with quite obvious errors that
>> even proofing with braille would not have caught.
>> 
>> I think it would be beneficial for these purposes for the NFb lawyers
>> division to compile a list of similar formatting issues, perhaps in a
>> wiki-type format so that everyone could contribute.  Of course, some
>> of these things come down to stylistic preference, but many of them
>> don't.  Has anyone else ever thought of this?
>> 
>> Laura
>> 
>>> On 11/11/16, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If you rely
>>> too much on your readers for proofing then you do not become a really good
>>> proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final
>>> instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students were
>>> lying to heavily on their proofers.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the National
>>> Federation of the Blind."
>>> 
>>> Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
>>> Director of Outreach
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
>>> Mobile: (773) 307-6440
>>> WWW.NFB.org<http://WWW.NFB.org>
>>> 
>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Greetings everyone,
>>> 
>>> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform
>>> reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They
>>> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them
>>> during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to
>>> locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of
>>> info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
>>> 
>>> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All
>>> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance.
>>> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way
>>> regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of
>>> the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>>> 
>>> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using
>>> a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the
>>> reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may
>>> have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the
>>> reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight
>>> what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader
>>> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does
>>> the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of
>>> class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Aimee
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
>>> 
>>> Disclaimer
>>> 
>>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
>>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
>>> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
>>> relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
>>> be unlawful.
>>> 
>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
>>> automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a
>>> Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for
>>> your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and
>>> compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com


From dennis at dgclark.net  Sat Nov 12 21:14:33 2016
From: dennis at dgclark.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 13:14:33 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <0179FE28-AFBB-4844-8AF5-E39433F7B8DD@gmail.com>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com><F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK><B532CB00-7493-49B6-98FE-D8FAA7FA32A0@gmail.com>
	<0179FE28-AFBB-4844-8AF5-E39433F7B8DD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FF78438D89443C286F55A3837A63759@C1>

Hello Aimee,
The question you asked is quite sensible and the background you provided is 
very clear. The strange direction that some of the subsequent posts have 
taken is most definitely not your fault. Before offering any advice to you 
there is some additional background information that I would find useful, 
but not something which should be discussed on public lists like this one. 
If you would like to give me a call please feel free. My number is (310) 
285-0244. I'm in Los Angeles.
All the best,
Dennis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
To: "Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Aimee Harwood" <awildheir at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for 
study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by 
the school


> Hello fellow listers,
>
> I need to clarify my position on the reader in research. I only intend to 
> use the reader for locating things on the screen or in the document 
> visually I will do all of the research myself. I will not ask them to do 
> any research or make sure that I am using correct citation as to the 
> rules. The reader will be solely for visual aspects of the work. I only 
> want to use the reader as any other blindness related tool.
>
> I have been out of school for 13 years and have not used JAWS in six of 
> those years. Training is sparse here. I know enough to manage. I would 
> imagine that once I am more proficient with jaws and things of the like, I 
> will use a reader less as school goes on. I am working on my braille 
> proficiency and speed as well. At this point it is a much better use of my 
> time until I become faster on my own.
>
> I am not trying to have anyone do anything for me. That's not my position. 
> I am very capable and high functioning once I learn how to do the things 
> that I need to do. I understand that many of you may not really know me. 
> And it would be easy to assume that I want someone to do the work for me. 
> I don't. I hope you will consider looking at my requests in a different 
> mindset. Miss Chang, I have not found your email regarding my post yet. I 
> do hope you shared it with the group so that I may read it and find some 
> wisdom within it. I would hope it was not sent to everyone except me.
>
> In closing, I hope I have cleared things up a bit so that we can get 
> conversations addressing the issues at hand regarding the school viewing 
> most requests as an extra advantage over other students rather than 
> leveling the playing field as well as increasing my understanding of what 
> my rights actually are. I really do appreciate and value the input of the 
> list especially because the majority of you guys have been out there and 
> know more about the inner workings then those of us in law school.  You 
> have the potential to be very helpful and insightful if you choose to.
>
> Aimee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Aimee Harwood <awildheir at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Rod,
>>
>> Thank you for your response. The individual over accommodations in my 
>> school is the director of student affairs. He influences everyone at the 
>> school up to the dean. I do not have a person at the school that I can 
>> feel comfortable going to regarding issues. I basically have to be my own 
>> attorney and spent hours researching things on Westlaw and Lexus to try 
>> and support my position. That's why I am reaching out to the group to 
>> find out how it is handled in practice and what my rights really are and 
>> how much power the law school has over certain things. I am the first 
>> student with significant vision loss as far as I know. I also have 
>> general anxiety disorder and ADHD. The individual administering 
>> accommodations at the school is primarily a professor. As we know, 
>> professors are the hardest to get to understand accommodations. They 
>> think most everything gives some sort of advantage instead of actually 
>> leveling the playing field in response to the disability or in my case 
>> disabilities. I greatly appreciate your input and hope that you have a 
>> wonderful day.
>>
>> Aimee
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 4:30 AM, Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via BlindLaw 
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Aimee:
>>>
>>> The short answer is no. But if you are so concerned about it, I would 
>>> voice those concerns to your Dean of Students or Academic affair so that 
>>> they are fully aware of those concerns. This is what accommodation is 
>>> all about. IN the practice of law, I typically get my asssistants to 
>>> sign a confidentiality document to protect myself/client.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 9:56 PM
>>> To: Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw
>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for 
>>> study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid 
>>> by the school
>>>
>>> Greetings everyone,
>>>
>>> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will 
>>> perform reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to 
>>> read.  They will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I 
>>> will use them during research to help locate something on the screen 
>>> that is hard to locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to 
>>> get that one bit of info. Basically the individual will assist with 
>>> anything vision related.
>>>
>>> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. 
>>> All graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside 
>>> assistance. We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us 
>>> in any way regarding the assignment including research. If a student 
>>> violates any of the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>>>
>>> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for 
>>> using a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I 
>>> use the reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see 
>>> that I may have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing 
>>> me for using the reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to 
>>> find  or highlight what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they 
>>> penalize me for the reader performing non-essential tasks on graded 
>>> assignments?  How much control does the school have over the person paid 
>>> by the state to assist with outside of class activities as long as I am 
>>> the one doing the legal work?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Aimee
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgclark.net 





From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 21:27:58 2016
From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 21:27:58 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>

Laura,

I agree with the points you make and think a Wiki would be very
worthwhile. Stylistic mistakes like this are damaging. They suggest to
a sighted reader that the author has not taken trouble to correct what
are for them very obvious errors. However good the legal analysis in
your document (which clients are anyway often not best placed to
judge) that creates a bad impression.

Ger

On 11/12/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Miss Chang,
>
> It took a little digging with iOS new structure of emails but I found your
> email thread in response to my post asking questions about readers. It had a
> different subject and therefore was not a direct response to my post.
>
> We have the same idea. But did someone throw you out the door and say have
> fun here you go or did they help you learn what needed to be corrected? It
> would not be wise to throw your dog out in the middle of a deep Lake without
> first making sure he could swim and helping him become a better swimmer
> before you throw him in the lake.
>
> Maybe we should consider developing a functional mentoring program. That
> could help eliminate some of these issues.  One can't really make an
> accurate assessment of another's character until they spend significant time
> interacting with that person.
>
>
> Aimee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Sybren Hoekstra via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> This is a really good idea. It might also be useful to compile a list of
>> the various tricks that people use with different screen readers to ensure
>> proper formatting.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 14:02, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This message is in response to Patti's observation that blind students
>>> and attorneys sometimes rely too much on their readers, an observation
>>> with which I generally agree.
>>>
>>> But I don't think this is the entire problem.  i think, in large part,
>>> blind people don't even know what questions to ask, because it is hard
>>> to know what errors are out there unless someone thinks to tell you.
>>> I have been inordinately blessed by friends who have given me tips and
>>> tricks both on style and also on mechanics about which I was utterly
>>> clueless.  Things like the fact that if you copy and paste directly
>>> from Westlaw, your quotation marks and apostrophes will look different
>>> than those that arise when typing directly into word. Or, if typing a
>>> single-spaced document with footnotes, it may behoove you to put a
>>> blank line between the footnotes for ease of a sighted person's
>>> reading smaller text.  or that global format changes such as
>>> justifying text "above the line" do not transfer to your footnotes,
>>> resulting in your footnotes remaining unjustified.  Or how you can
>>> connect a heading with the first line immediately following it to
>>> ensure that your headings are never on one page with the accompanying
>>> text on the next page.  These are all things about which I had no
>>> intuitive knowledge as a completely blind person.  Without having been
>>> told, I would never even have known to ask the question, and would
>>> have continued turning in documents with quite obvious errors that
>>> even proofing with braille would not have caught.
>>>
>>> I think it would be beneficial for these purposes for the NFb lawyers
>>> division to compile a list of similar formatting issues, perhaps in a
>>> wiki-type format so that everyone could contribute.  Of course, some
>>> of these things come down to stylistic preference, but many of them
>>> don't.  Has anyone else ever thought of this?
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>> On 11/11/16, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If you
>>>> rely
>>>> too much on your readers for proofing then you do not become a really
>>>> good
>>>> proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final
>>>> instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students
>>>> were
>>>> lying to heavily on their proofers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the National
>>>> Federation of the Blind."
>>>>
>>>> Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
>>>> Director of Outreach
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
>>>> Mobile: (773) 307-6440
>>>> WWW.NFB.org<http://WWW.NFB.org>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Greetings everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will
>>>> perform
>>>> reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.
>>>> They
>>>> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them
>>>> during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to
>>>> locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit
>>>> of
>>>> info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision
>>>> related.
>>>>
>>>> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year.
>>>> All
>>>> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside
>>>> assistance.
>>>> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way
>>>> regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any
>>>> of
>>>> the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>>>>
>>>> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for
>>>> using
>>>> a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use
>>>> the
>>>> reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I
>>>> may
>>>> have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using
>>>> the
>>>> reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or
>>>> highlight
>>>> what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the
>>>> reader
>>>> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control
>>>> does
>>>> the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside
>>>> of
>>>> class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Aimee
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
>>>>
>>>> Disclaimer
>>>>
>>>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
>>>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
>>>> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
>>>> relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and
>>>> may
>>>> be unlawful.
>>>>
>>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
>>>> automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a
>>>> Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place
>>>> for
>>>> your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and
>>>> compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com
>


From awildheir at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 21:29:19 2016
From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 16:29:19 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <7C03E6C009DF4C0383BCB9559D261F6A@mcglashonHP>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>
	<F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>
	<CAGZitzLiHOhGYTPkFX4QT=LobQ4poSwwGrr5D3VVRr=M52rGng@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C03E6C009DF4C0383BCB9559D261F6A@mcglashonHP>
Message-ID: <5AF61425-F780-4A1B-9F08-AE8386E25229@gmail.com>

Hello Gerard,

I have not explicitly asked about the penalty. What I have done is asked the school if they knew anyone that would be suitable for the position. I am not from this state and do not have a support network of people outside of the school. In discussing this with my professor she expressed concern about someone assisting in anyway with this assignment. No one is allowed to get any assistance or let anyone see their work. We are not to discuss cases or any aspect of the assignment with anyone. I drafted a quick article to publish in the digest advertising the position I am seeking to fill. I was hoping to reach enough people that maybe they knew someone who would be interested in the position if they themselves were not. I outlined the duties and expectations in the article with explicit language stating that I did not want to utilize anyone's legal knowledge. The sole purpose was dealing with anything visual. I mentioned that the individual, if it were to be a law student, would need to be a to L or higher because the individual would be looking at my assignments including the judicial opinion we are working on. I spoke with the individual responsible for administering accommodations and talk to him about the reader and how the duties would involve reading and formatting or verifying formatting of assignments to be turned in. The tone of his voice indicated he saw an issue with what I was saying but he did not come out and directly say I would be penalized. The only thing he did say was OK… You guys stay out of trouble. 

As far as your question, I actually had the same thought myself this morning. I am sending out that very same question to see if they will comment directly on it. My expectations are that they will take a couple weeks to get back with me on it which will be after the due date of this assignment. 

I do appreciate your email. That was a very good question to ask and I greatly appreciate your thoughtfulness. I hope you have a good weekend.
 

Aimee

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2016, at 1:22 PM, mike mcglashon via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Gerard


From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 21:42:29 2016
From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 21:42:29 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <5AF61425-F780-4A1B-9F08-AE8386E25229@gmail.com>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>
	<F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>
	<CAGZitzLiHOhGYTPkFX4QT=LobQ4poSwwGrr5D3VVRr=M52rGng@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C03E6C009DF4C0383BCB9559D261F6A@mcglashonHP>
	<5AF61425-F780-4A1B-9F08-AE8386E25229@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGZitzJa=P4dEG-PampfUtWkos2P5yHZ-G6wwj30A4678WKWVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Aimee

Many thanks for your email.

I think it would be worth writing to the school asking the question as
you propose but also explaining your position and why you feel you
ought to be permitted to use a reader in the way discussed.

I think you should  ask the school to confirm their position and
either say that you can use a reader in the way you propose or explain
their objections to certain duties and what the reader can properly do
by say next Friday at latest, given the deadline for your upcoming
assignment. If next Friday is too late then ask for a response within
a shorter deadline.

I'm copying the list with this suggestion and if anyone disagrees,
please get in touch.

If it would be helpful to have someone read over a draft emai, I'd be happy to.

Kind regards

Ger

On 11/12/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello Gerard,
>
> I have not explicitly asked about the penalty. What I have done is asked the
> school if they knew anyone that would be suitable for the position. I am not
> from this state and do not have a support network of people outside of the
> school. In discussing this with my professor she expressed concern about
> someone assisting in anyway with this assignment. No one is allowed to get
> any assistance or let anyone see their work. We are not to discuss cases or
> any aspect of the assignment with anyone. I drafted a quick article to
> publish in the digest advertising the position I am seeking to fill. I was
> hoping to reach enough people that maybe they knew someone who would be
> interested in the position if they themselves were not. I outlined the
> duties and expectations in the article with explicit language stating that I
> did not want to utilize anyone's legal knowledge. The sole purpose was
> dealing with anything visual. I mentioned that the individual, if it were to
> be a law student, would need to be a to L or higher because the individual
> would be looking at my assignments including the judicial opinion we are
> working on. I spoke with the individual responsible for administering
> accommodations and talk to him about the reader and how the duties would
> involve reading and formatting or verifying formatting of assignments to be
> turned in. The tone of his voice indicated he saw an issue with what I was
> saying but he did not come out and directly say I would be penalized. The
> only thing he did say was OK… You guys stay out of trouble.
>
> As far as your question, I actually had the same thought myself this
> morning. I am sending out that very same question to see if they will
> comment directly on it. My expectations are that they will take a couple
> weeks to get back with me on it which will be after the due date of this
> assignment.
>
> I do appreciate your email. That was a very good question to ask and I
> greatly appreciate your thoughtfulness. I hope you have a good weekend.
>
>
> Aimee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 1:22 PM, mike mcglashon via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Gerard
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com


From PChang at nfb.org  Sat Nov 12 23:36:59 2016
From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 23:36:59 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>

This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as I know how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell me what to change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go. 

The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for lawyers is a good one. 
Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this and end up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users? Keep those tips coming. 


Patti Chang
(410) 659-9314, x 2422
(773) 307-6440
National Federation of the Blind

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Gerard Sadlier
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers

Laura,

I agree with the points you make and think a Wiki would be very worthwhile. Stylistic mistakes like this are damaging. They suggest to a sighted reader that the author has not taken trouble to correct what are for them very obvious errors. However good the legal analysis in your document (which clients are anyway often not best placed to
judge) that creates a bad impression.

Ger

On 11/12/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Miss Chang,
>
> It took a little digging with iOS new structure of emails but I found 
> your email thread in response to my post asking questions about 
> readers. It had a different subject and therefore was not a direct response to my post.
>
> We have the same idea. But did someone throw you out the door and say 
> have fun here you go or did they help you learn what needed to be 
> corrected? It would not be wise to throw your dog out in the middle of 
> a deep Lake without first making sure he could swim and helping him 
> become a better swimmer before you throw him in the lake.
>
> Maybe we should consider developing a functional mentoring program. 
> That could help eliminate some of these issues.  One can't really make 
> an accurate assessment of another's character until they spend 
> significant time interacting with that person.
>
>
> Aimee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Sybren Hoekstra via BlindLaw 
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> This is a really good idea. It might also be useful to compile a list 
>> of the various tricks that people use with different screen readers 
>> to ensure proper formatting.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 14:02, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw 
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This message is in response to Patti's observation that blind 
>>> students and attorneys sometimes rely too much on their readers, an 
>>> observation with which I generally agree.
>>>
>>> But I don't think this is the entire problem.  i think, in large 
>>> part, blind people don't even know what questions to ask, because it 
>>> is hard to know what errors are out there unless someone thinks to tell you.
>>> I have been inordinately blessed by friends who have given me tips 
>>> and tricks both on style and also on mechanics about which I was 
>>> utterly clueless.  Things like the fact that if you copy and paste 
>>> directly from Westlaw, your quotation marks and apostrophes will 
>>> look different than those that arise when typing directly into word. 
>>> Or, if typing a single-spaced document with footnotes, it may 
>>> behoove you to put a blank line between the footnotes for ease of a 
>>> sighted person's reading smaller text.  or that global format 
>>> changes such as justifying text "above the line" do not transfer to 
>>> your footnotes, resulting in your footnotes remaining unjustified.  
>>> Or how you can connect a heading with the first line immediately 
>>> following it to ensure that your headings are never on one page with 
>>> the accompanying text on the next page.  These are all things about 
>>> which I had no intuitive knowledge as a completely blind person.  
>>> Without having been told, I would never even have known to ask the 
>>> question, and would have continued turning in documents with quite 
>>> obvious errors that even proofing with braille would not have caught.
>>>
>>> I think it would be beneficial for these purposes for the NFb 
>>> lawyers division to compile a list of similar formatting issues, 
>>> perhaps in a wiki-type format so that everyone could contribute.  Of 
>>> course, some of these things come down to stylistic preference, but 
>>> many of them don't.  Has anyone else ever thought of this?
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>> On 11/11/16, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If 
>>>> you rely too much on your readers for proofing then you do not 
>>>> become a really good
>>>> proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final
>>>> instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students 
>>>> were lying to heavily on their proofers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the 
>>>> National Federation of the Blind."
>>>>
>>>> Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
>>>> Director of Outreach
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
>>>> Mobile: (773) 307-6440
>>>> http://WWW.NFB.org<https://protect-us.
>>>> http://WWW.NFB.org>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw 
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Greetings everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will 
>>>> perform reading of any material for school purposes that I need 
>>>> them to read.
>>>> They
>>>> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use 
>>>> them during research to help locate something on the screen that is 
>>>> hard to locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get 
>>>> that one bit of info. Basically the individual will assist with 
>>>> anything vision related.
>>>>
>>>> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year.
>>>> All
>>>> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside 
>>>> assistance.
>>>> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any 
>>>> way regarding the assignment including research. If a student 
>>>> violates any of the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>>>>
>>>> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me 
>>>> for using a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the 
>>>> assignment? If I use the reader to verify the formatting or point 
>>>> out any issues they see that I may have missed because I didn't see 
>>>> it?  What about penalizing me for using the reader to assist in 
>>>> research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight what I ask 
>>>> them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader 
>>>> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much 
>>>> control does the school have over the person paid by the state to 
>>>> assist with outside of class activities as long as I am the one 
>>>> doing the legal work?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Aimee
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
>>>>
>>>> Disclaimer
>>>>
>>>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is 
>>>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and 
>>>> others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you 
>>>> are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or 
>>>> taking action in relation of the contents of this information is 
>>>> strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>>>
>>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have 
>>>> been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in 
>>>> Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and 
>>>> more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; 
>>>> Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the 
>>>> Mimecast website.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org

Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.

From njaskins at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 23:45:02 2016
From: njaskins at gmail.com (Nicole Askins)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 18:45:02 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another question. Is
there already a template for legal writing that could be used? If not could
such a template be created? I'm fairly certain that a template that is
generally acceptable could be useful to all in the legal Community. Any
thoughts?

On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as I know
how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell me what to
change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.

The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for lawyers is a
good one.
Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this and end
up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users? Keep those tips
coming.


Patti Chang
(410) 659-9314, x 2422
(773) 307-6440
National Federation of the Blind

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard
Sadlier via BlindLaw
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Gerard Sadlier
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers

Laura,

I agree with the points you make and think a Wiki would be very worthwhile.
Stylistic mistakes like this are damaging. They suggest to a sighted reader
that the author has not taken trouble to correct what are for them very
obvious errors. However good the legal analysis in your document (which
clients are anyway often not best placed to
judge) that creates a bad impression.

Ger

On 11/12/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Miss Chang,
>
> It took a little digging with iOS new structure of emails but I found
> your email thread in response to my post asking questions about
> readers. It had a different subject and therefore was not a direct
response to my post.
>
> We have the same idea. But did someone throw you out the door and say
> have fun here you go or did they help you learn what needed to be
> corrected? It would not be wise to throw your dog out in the middle of
> a deep Lake without first making sure he could swim and helping him
> become a better swimmer before you throw him in the lake.
>
> Maybe we should consider developing a functional mentoring program.
> That could help eliminate some of these issues.  One can't really make
> an accurate assessment of another's character until they spend
> significant time interacting with that person.
>
>
> Aimee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Sybren Hoekstra via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> This is a really good idea. It might also be useful to compile a list
>> of the various tricks that people use with different screen readers
>> to ensure proper formatting.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 14:02, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This message is in response to Patti's observation that blind
>>> students and attorneys sometimes rely too much on their readers, an
>>> observation with which I generally agree.
>>>
>>> But I don't think this is the entire problem.  i think, in large
>>> part, blind people don't even know what questions to ask, because it
>>> is hard to know what errors are out there unless someone thinks to tell
you.
>>> I have been inordinately blessed by friends who have given me tips
>>> and tricks both on style and also on mechanics about which I was
>>> utterly clueless.  Things like the fact that if you copy and paste
>>> directly from Westlaw, your quotation marks and apostrophes will
>>> look different than those that arise when typing directly into word.
>>> Or, if typing a single-spaced document with footnotes, it may
>>> behoove you to put a blank line between the footnotes for ease of a
>>> sighted person's reading smaller text.  or that global format
>>> changes such as justifying text "above the line" do not transfer to
>>> your footnotes, resulting in your footnotes remaining unjustified.
>>> Or how you can connect a heading with the first line immediately
>>> following it to ensure that your headings are never on one page with
>>> the accompanying text on the next page.  These are all things about
>>> which I had no intuitive knowledge as a completely blind person.
>>> Without having been told, I would never even have known to ask the
>>> question, and would have continued turning in documents with quite
>>> obvious errors that even proofing with braille would not have caught.
>>>
>>> I think it would be beneficial for these purposes for the NFb
>>> lawyers division to compile a list of similar formatting issues,
>>> perhaps in a wiki-type format so that everyone could contribute.  Of
>>> course, some of these things come down to stylistic preference, but
>>> many of them don't.  Has anyone else ever thought of this?
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>> On 11/11/16, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If
>>>> you rely too much on your readers for proofing then you do not
>>>> become a really good
>>>> proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final
>>>> instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students
>>>> were lying to heavily on their proofers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the
>>>> National Federation of the Blind."
>>>>
>>>> Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
>>>> Director of Outreach
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
>>>> Mobile: (773) 307-6440
>>>> http://WWW.NFB.org<https://protect-us.
>>>> http://WWW.NFB.org>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Greetings everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will
>>>> perform reading of any material for school purposes that I need
>>>> them to read.
>>>> They
>>>> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use
>>>> them during research to help locate something on the screen that is
>>>> hard to locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get
>>>> that one bit of info. Basically the individual will assist with
>>>> anything vision related.
>>>>
>>>> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year.
>>>> All
>>>> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside
>>>> assistance.
>>>> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any
>>>> way regarding the assignment including research. If a student
>>>> violates any of the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>>>>
>>>> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me
>>>> for using a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the
>>>> assignment? If I use the reader to verify the formatting or point
>>>> out any issues they see that I may have missed because I didn't see
>>>> it?  What about penalizing me for using the reader to assist in
>>>> research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight what I ask
>>>> them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader
>>>> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much
>>>> control does the school have over the person paid by the state to
>>>> assist with outside of class activities as long as I am the one
>>>> doing the legal work?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Aimee
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
>>>>
>>>> Disclaimer
>>>>
>>>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
>>>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and
>>>> others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you
>>>> are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>>>> taking action in relation of the contents of this information is
>>>> strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>>>
>>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have
>>>> been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in
>>>> Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and
>>>> more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in;
>>>> Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the
>>>> Mimecast website.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/
laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/
sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/
awildheir%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/
gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org

Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is
confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
be unlawful.

This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a
Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for
your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and
compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.
_______________________________________________
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BlindLaw:
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From kelbycarlson at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 23:55:10 2016
From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 18:55:10 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>

Brian Hartgen has a very useful training course on how to use MS Word
with JAWS; it's expensive, but worth the price. I have thought of
recording something similar as a basic intro to Word for bling
attorneys and law students. I'm on law review now and do all the
cite-check assignments myself; my editors don't send too much back.
There are definitely ways to do it.

On 11/12/16, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another question. Is
> there already a template for legal writing that could be used? If not could
> such a template be created? I'm fairly certain that a template that is
> generally acceptable could be useful to all in the legal Community. Any
> thoughts?
>
> On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as I know
> how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell me what to
> change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.
>
> The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for lawyers is a
> good one.
> Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this and end
> up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users? Keep those tips
> coming.
>
>
> Patti Chang
> (410) 659-9314, x 2422
> (773) 307-6440
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard
> Sadlier via BlindLaw
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Gerard Sadlier
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>
> Laura,
>
> I agree with the points you make and think a Wiki would be very worthwhile.
> Stylistic mistakes like this are damaging. They suggest to a sighted reader
> that the author has not taken trouble to correct what are for them very
> obvious errors. However good the legal analysis in your document (which
> clients are anyway often not best placed to
> judge) that creates a bad impression.
>
> Ger
>
> On 11/12/16, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Miss Chang,
>>
>> It took a little digging with iOS new structure of emails but I found
>> your email thread in response to my post asking questions about
>> readers. It had a different subject and therefore was not a direct
> response to my post.
>>
>> We have the same idea. But did someone throw you out the door and say
>> have fun here you go or did they help you learn what needed to be
>> corrected? It would not be wise to throw your dog out in the middle of
>> a deep Lake without first making sure he could swim and helping him
>> become a better swimmer before you throw him in the lake.
>>
>> Maybe we should consider developing a functional mentoring program.
>> That could help eliminate some of these issues.  One can't really make
>> an accurate assessment of another's character until they spend
>> significant time interacting with that person.
>>
>>
>> Aimee
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Sybren Hoekstra via BlindLaw
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a really good idea. It might also be useful to compile a list
>>> of the various tricks that people use with different screen readers
>>> to ensure proper formatting.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 14:02, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This message is in response to Patti's observation that blind
>>>> students and attorneys sometimes rely too much on their readers, an
>>>> observation with which I generally agree.
>>>>
>>>> But I don't think this is the entire problem.  i think, in large
>>>> part, blind people don't even know what questions to ask, because it
>>>> is hard to know what errors are out there unless someone thinks to tell
> you.
>>>> I have been inordinately blessed by friends who have given me tips
>>>> and tricks both on style and also on mechanics about which I was
>>>> utterly clueless.  Things like the fact that if you copy and paste
>>>> directly from Westlaw, your quotation marks and apostrophes will
>>>> look different than those that arise when typing directly into word.
>>>> Or, if typing a single-spaced document with footnotes, it may
>>>> behoove you to put a blank line between the footnotes for ease of a
>>>> sighted person's reading smaller text.  or that global format
>>>> changes such as justifying text "above the line" do not transfer to
>>>> your footnotes, resulting in your footnotes remaining unjustified.
>>>> Or how you can connect a heading with the first line immediately
>>>> following it to ensure that your headings are never on one page with
>>>> the accompanying text on the next page.  These are all things about
>>>> which I had no intuitive knowledge as a completely blind person.
>>>> Without having been told, I would never even have known to ask the
>>>> question, and would have continued turning in documents with quite
>>>> obvious errors that even proofing with braille would not have caught.
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be beneficial for these purposes for the NFb
>>>> lawyers division to compile a list of similar formatting issues,
>>>> perhaps in a wiki-type format so that everyone could contribute.  Of
>>>> course, some of these things come down to stylistic preference, but
>>>> many of them don't.  Has anyone else ever thought of this?
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/11/16, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> I think the bigger question here is what should you be doing. If
>>>>> you rely too much on your readers for proofing then you do not
>>>>> become a really good
>>>>> proofer   for yourself. We should all use Proof readers in the final
>>>>> instance to catch visual things we miss but I see too many students
>>>>> were lying to heavily on their proofers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Every day we raise the expectations of blind people in the
>>>>> National Federation of the Blind."
>>>>>
>>>>> Patti S.  Gregory Chang Esq.
>>>>> Director of Outreach
>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>> Direct phone: (410) 659-9314 extension 2422
>>>>> Mobile: (773) 307-6440
>>>>> http://WWW.NFB.org<https://protect-us.
>>>>> http://WWW.NFB.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will
>>>>> perform reading of any material for school purposes that I need
>>>>> them to read.
>>>>> They
>>>>> will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use
>>>>> them during research to help locate something on the screen that is
>>>>> hard to locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get
>>>>> that one bit of info. Basically the individual will assist with
>>>>> anything vision related.
>>>>>
>>>>> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L
>>>>> year.
>>>>> All
>>>>> graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside
>>>>> assistance.
>>>>> We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any
>>>>> way regarding the assignment including research. If a student
>>>>> violates any of the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me
>>>>> for using a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the
>>>>> assignment? If I use the reader to verify the formatting or point
>>>>> out any issues they see that I may have missed because I didn't see
>>>>> it?  What about penalizing me for using the reader to assist in
>>>>> research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight what I ask
>>>>> them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader
>>>>> performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much
>>>>> control does the school have over the person paid by the state to
>>>>> assist with outside of class activities as long as I am the one
>>>>> doing the legal work?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Aimee
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Disclaimer
>>>>>
>>>>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
>>>>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and
>>>>> others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you
>>>>> are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>>>>> taking action in relation of the contents of this information is
>>>>> strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>>>>
>>>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have
>>>>> been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in
>>>>> Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and
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>>>>> Mimecast website.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/
> laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/
> sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/
> awildheir%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/
> gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org
>
> Disclaimer
>
> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
> relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
> be unlawful.
>
> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
> automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a
> Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for
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>


From sbg at sbgaal.com  Sun Nov 13 00:08:13 2016
From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 18:08:13 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5340929A-CB94-488B-A888-8C0C54AC2C43@sbgaal.com>

Where do I find the course?
Thanks!

Shannon Brady Geihsler
Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler,PLLC
1001 Main Street, Suite 803
Lubbock, Texas 79401 
Phone:  (806) 763-3999
Mobile:  (806) 781-9296
Fax: (806) 749-3752
E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com
NOTICE the information contained in this communication is protected by the attorney/client and/or the work/product privileges.  It along with any attachments here to, is also covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2512.  It is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named in the communication, and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail.  If the person actually receiving this communication or any other reader of the communication is not the named recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by telephone (please call collect) and delete the original from your  system.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:55 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Brian Hartgen has a very useful training course on how to use MS Word
> with JAWS; it's expensive, but worth the price. I have thought of
> recording something similar as a basic intro to Word for bling
> attorneys and law students. I'm on law review now and do all the
> cite-check assignments myself; my editors don't send too much back.
> There are definitely ways to do it.
> 
>> On 11/12/16, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another question. Is
>> there already a template for legal writing that could be used? If not could
>> such a template be created? I'm fairly certain that a template that is
>> generally acceptable could be useful to all in the legal Community. Any
>> thoughts?
>> 
>> On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as I know
>> how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell me what to
>> change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.
>> 
>> The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for lawyers is a
>> good one.
>> Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this and end
>> up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users? Keep those tips
>> coming.
>> 
>> 
>> Patti Chang
>> (410) 659-9314, x 2422
>> (773) 307-6440
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard
>> Sadlier via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
> 

From laura.wolk at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 00:37:45 2016
From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 19:37:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <5340929A-CB94-488B-A888-8C0C54AC2C43@sbgaal.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5340929A-CB94-488B-A888-8C0C54AC2C43@sbgaal.com>
Message-ID: <CAHG6wD4p0O4k94VzUrdmfWbAKPydZ9ROnkAjFZ9THrY13iZLWg@mail.gmail.com>

Just one note though, Kelby.  Learning how to cite check and edit a
**sighted** person's work is one thing.  Learning how to proof your
own work, written as a blind person, is quite another.  I.e., a
sighted person probably will notice if suddenly the font turns from 12
point black times new roman to 10.5 gray garamande.  How this happens?
 I haven't a clue.  But these types of strange and inexplicable things
have happened to me many times.

On 11/12/16, Shannon Geihsler via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Where do I find the course?
> Thanks!
>
> Shannon Brady Geihsler
> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler,PLLC
> 1001 Main Street, Suite 803
> Lubbock, Texas 79401
> Phone:  (806) 763-3999
> Mobile:  (806) 781-9296
> Fax: (806) 749-3752
> E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com
> NOTICE the information contained in this communication is protected by the
> attorney/client and/or the work/product privileges.  It along with any
> attachments here to, is also covered by the Electronic Communications
> Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2512.  It is intended only for the
> personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named in the
> communication, and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having
> been sent by electronic mail.  If the person actually receiving this
> communication or any other reader of the communication is not the named
> recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of the
> communication is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this
> communication in error, please immediately notify us by telephone (please
> call collect) and delete the original from your  system.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:55 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Brian Hartgen has a very useful training course on how to use MS Word
>> with JAWS; it's expensive, but worth the price. I have thought of
>> recording something similar as a basic intro to Word for bling
>> attorneys and law students. I'm on law review now and do all the
>> cite-check assignments myself; my editors don't send too much back.
>> There are definitely ways to do it.
>>
>>> On 11/12/16, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another question. Is
>>> there already a template for legal writing that could be used? If not
>>> could
>>> such a template be created? I'm fairly certain that a template that is
>>> generally acceptable could be useful to all in the legal Community. Any
>>> thoughts?
>>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw"
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as I
>>> know
>>> how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell me what to
>>> change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.
>>>
>>> The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for lawyers is
>>> a
>>> good one.
>>> Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this and
>>> end
>>> up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users? Keep those
>>> tips
>>> coming.
>>>
>>>
>>> Patti Chang
>>> (410) 659-9314, x 2422
>>> (773) 307-6440
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard
>>> Sadlier via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>


From jmccarthy at mdtap.org  Mon Nov 14 14:58:48 2016
From: jmccarthy at mdtap.org (Jim McCarthy)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 09:58:48 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
 study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
 the school
In-Reply-To: <0179FE28-AFBB-4844-8AF5-E39433F7B8DD@gmail.com>
References: <227D267E-6F16-4D25-9290-A9CBD4EE1FAB@gmail.com>	<F215A29328644A30909457025F05BAB0@RodTHINK>	<B532CB00-7493-49B6-98FE-D8FAA7FA32A0@gmail.com>
	<0179FE28-AFBB-4844-8AF5-E39433F7B8DD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <019f01d23e87$9b4d57d0$d1e80770$@mdtap.org>

Aimee,
Though I cannot say for sure, I think the people who have responded largely
understand your question. The discussion probably is going in a direction a
bit different than you expected with Laura's discussion of formatting. This
is a related discussion I think though. For quite some time, I have thought
calling this person the state will fund for you a reader does not actually
address the modern use case. I think that actual reading is much less needed
than it was 30 years ago. At that time, there were case books for the
classes and legal research came through the paper reporters and so forth.
Some of the casebooks would have been recorded on cassette, but the
reporters, citators and so forth were not. None of these were in Braille for
those who could use that. Today, I think it is rare that a person actually
uses a reader that way. There may be some old files that are legacy
materials and in practice, there are some hand written materials. The
majority though seems to be proofing documents and that is probably why the
thread has morphed more to that direction. It seems to me that you need to
articulate to those making the reasonable accommodation decision why you are
not getting an advantage by having the reader.

I graduated law school in the middle 90's. For most of my time in school, I
had LexisNexis, Westlaw  and a scanner with OCR for paper materials. That
latter was quite new though for personal use. Some professors wanted open
book final exams. When given a choice or if there was a vote on the open
book exam, I voted no! In law though, open books does not really give the
test taker the answers; it gives the materials with which she will conducted
her answers/arguments. Problem from my point of view was that a case book
might take 15 4-track tapes and I could see no good way to find answers in
that environment. I further assumed that because one had access to her book,
the professor probably expected quotes for holdings and the like. I might
have used a reader and directed her to the answers, which may have been
quicker, but probably would have required a bit of practice. At any rate,
with digital media, I think my arguments against open book exams lose their
bite. It seems to me, though I do not use on line legal sources at all these
days, that much of what is on the screen can be efficiently located using
JAWS and so forth. If that is true, it seems that developing facility with
the tools is where you really need to focus. I started law school with a
typewriter, a nice electric but..., a cassette recorder, a slate and
stylist, and a Perkins brailler.  By the end of the year, I have a desktop
computer, braille embosser, scanner with document feeder and OCR software
and a braille note taker. I found myself learning all of these while trying
to keep up with school and I sure wish to received or bought all this stuff
first so I would have come to law school with the skills already in place. I
say all of this because as I read what you write, the argument sounds like,
"I need this person, paid for by the state, to visually find things on the
screen for which I have searched. I need this because I have been out of
school for quite a while and lack the facility with JAWS that would allow me
not to need this person. Once I gain more experience here in law school, it
may become the case that I need this person less or not at all." If I were
the decision maker, I would conclude that you need to gain the facility you
lack right now and that a "reader" is not necessary. Maybe I am missing
something and I absolutely believe in our right as blind people to receive
the accommodations we need to address these activities like law school and
even legal practice beyond that.
Best
Jim McCarthy

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee
Harwood via BlindLaw
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 3:34 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Aimee Harwood
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
the school

Hello fellow listers,

I need to clarify my position on the reader in research. I only intend to
use the reader for locating things on the screen or in the document visually
I will do all of the research myself. I will not ask them to do any research
or make sure that I am using correct citation as to the rules. The reader
will be solely for visual aspects of the work. I only want to use the reader
as any other blindness related tool.  

I have been out of school for 13 years and have not used JAWS in six of
those years. Training is sparse here. I know enough to manage. I would
imagine that once I am more proficient with jaws and things of the like, I
will use a reader less as school goes on. I am working on my braille
proficiency and speed as well. At this point it is a much better use of my
time until I become faster on my own.  

I am not trying to have anyone do anything for me. That's not my position. I
am very capable and high functioning once I learn how to do the things that
I need to do. I understand that many of you may not really know me. And it
would be easy to assume that I want someone to do the work for me. I don't.
I hope you will consider looking at my requests in a different mindset. Miss
Chang, I have not found your email regarding my post yet. I do hope you
shared it with the group so that I may read it and find some wisdom within
it. I would hope it was not sent to everyone except me.

In closing, I hope I have cleared things up a bit so that we can get
conversations addressing the issues at hand regarding the school viewing
most requests as an extra advantage over other students rather than leveling
the playing field as well as increasing my understanding of what my rights
actually are. I really do appreciate and value the input of the list
especially because the majority of you guys have been out there and know
more about the inner workings then those of us in law school.  You have the
potential to be very helpful and insightful if you choose to.

Aimee

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Aimee Harwood <awildheir at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Rod,
> 
> Thank you for your response. The individual over accommodations in my
school is the director of student affairs. He influences everyone at the
school up to the dean. I do not have a person at the school that I can feel
comfortable going to regarding issues. I basically have to be my own
attorney and spent hours researching things on Westlaw and Lexus to try and
support my position. That's why I am reaching out to the group to find out
how it is handled in practice and what my rights really are and how much
power the law school has over certain things. I am the first student with
significant vision loss as far as I know. I also have general anxiety
disorder and ADHD. The individual administering accommodations at the school
is primarily a professor. As we know, professors are the hardest to get to
understand accommodations. They think most everything gives some sort of
advantage instead of actually leveling the playing field in response to the
disability or in my case disabilities. I greatly appreciate your input and
hope that you have a wonderful day.
> 
> Aimee
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 4:30 AM, Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via BlindLaw
<blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Aimee:
>> 
>> The short answer is no. But if you are so concerned about it, I would
voice those concerns to your Dean of Students or Academic affair so that
they are fully aware of those concerns. This is what accommodation is all
about. IN the practice of law, I typically get my asssistants to sign a
confidentiality document to protect myself/client.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 9:56 PM
>> To: Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw
>> Cc: Aimee Harwood
>> Subject: [blindlaw] Law Schools Power over Readers or assistants for
study and outside of classroom assignments if the individual is not paid by
the school
>> 
>> Greetings everyone,
>> 
>> I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform
reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They
will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them
during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to
locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of
info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.
>> 
>> My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year.
All graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside
assistance. We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in
any way regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates
any of the restrictions, they violate the honor code.
>> 
>> Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for
using a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use
the reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I
may have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using
the reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or
highlight what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for
the reader performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much
control does the school have over the person paid by the state to assist
with outside of class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal
work?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Aimee
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonisla
w.com 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
>>
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
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From jmccarthy at mdtap.org  Mon Nov 14 15:01:32 2016
From: jmccarthy at mdtap.org (Jim McCarthy)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 10:01:32 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <CAHG6wD4p0O4k94VzUrdmfWbAKPydZ9ROnkAjFZ9THrY13iZLWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>	<5340929A-CB94-488B-A888-8C0C54AC2C43@sbgaal.com>
	<CAHG6wD4p0O4k94VzUrdmfWbAKPydZ9ROnkAjFZ9THrY13iZLWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01a001d23e87$fd031370$f7093a50$@mdtap.org>

Agree, Laura and just as flummoxed as you on that one.
Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
via BlindLaw
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 7:38 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Laura Wolk
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers

Just one note though, Kelby.  Learning how to cite check and edit a
**sighted** person's work is one thing.  Learning how to proof your own
work, written as a blind person, is quite another.  I.e., a sighted person
probably will notice if suddenly the font turns from 12 point black times
new roman to 10.5 gray garamande.  How this happens?
 I haven't a clue.  But these types of strange and inexplicable things have
happened to me many times.

On 11/12/16, Shannon Geihsler via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Where do I find the course?
> Thanks!
>
> Shannon Brady Geihsler
> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler,PLLC
> 1001 Main Street, Suite 803
> Lubbock, Texas 79401
> Phone:  (806) 763-3999
> Mobile:  (806) 781-9296
> Fax: (806) 749-3752
> E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com
> NOTICE the information contained in this communication is protected by 
> the attorney/client and/or the work/product privileges.  It along with 
> any attachments here to, is also covered by the Electronic 
> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2512.  It is 
> intended only for the personal and confidential use of the 
> recipient(s) named in the communication, and the privileges are not 
> waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail.  If the 
> person actually receiving this communication or any other reader of 
> the communication is not the named recipient, any use, dissemination, 
> distribution or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited.  
> If you have received this communication in error, please immediately 
> notify us by telephone (please call collect) and delete the original from
your  system.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:55 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw 
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Brian Hartgen has a very useful training course on how to use MS Word 
>> with JAWS; it's expensive, but worth the price. I have thought of 
>> recording something similar as a basic intro to Word for bling 
>> attorneys and law students. I'm on law review now and do all the 
>> cite-check assignments myself; my editors don't send too much back.
>> There are definitely ways to do it.
>>
>>> On 11/12/16, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another 
>>> question. Is there already a template for legal writing that could 
>>> be used? If not could such a template be created? I'm fairly certain 
>>> that a template that is generally acceptable could be useful to all 
>>> in the legal Community. Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw"
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as I 
>>> know how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell me 
>>> what to change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.
>>>
>>> The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for lawyers 
>>> is a good one.
>>> Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this 
>>> and end up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users? 
>>> Keep those tips coming.
>>>
>>>
>>> Patti Chang
>>> (410) 659-9314, x 2422
>>> (773) 307-6440
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma
> il.com
>

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
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From chris.stewart at uky.edu  Mon Nov 14 15:18:36 2016
From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 09:18:36 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers and a
 Proposed Wiki Page
Message-ID: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

 I recently created a website called txti to create an editable
 page of helpful MS Word commands that I use most frequently in my
 clerkship. It is a direct response to all the things I've been
 learning about formatting of documents specific to the Court.

 I just started last week, so I only have a few key sequences in
there, but I very much like the idea of also incorporating our shared
formatting knowledge. I
 originally intended to grow this page on my own, then share it with
 the list and allow group edits, but Laura's email made me think we may
 as well get this off the ground now.

 If anyone else is on board, let's maybe figure out some rules of
editing to make
 this a functional wiki. I can actually create separate lists on the
same page that we
 can easily navigate through using a screenreader. One list can be
 keyboard shortcuts. One can be formatting tips. And another can be, I
 don't know, general warnings and concerns.

 This hosting website is incredibly user friendly. It was designed by
 a friend of mine, and he always designs with blind users in mind.
 Here's the website.

www.txti.es/blindword

 Best,
 chris




-- 
Chris K. Stewart, J.D.
Ph:
(502)457-1757


From ttomasi at driowa.org  Mon Nov 14 15:21:55 2016
From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 15:21:55 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
 and a Proposed Wiki Page
In-Reply-To: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN2PR20MB0830EF54F9B222E90DB8346ED1BC0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I am on board with this and would like to help, as someone who likely missed out on many of the tips you and Laura mention.

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney



400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 9:19 AM
To: blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Stewart, Christopher K <chris.stewart at uky.edu>
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers and a Proposed Wiki Page

Dear All,

 I recently created a website called txti to create an editable  page of helpful MS Word commands that I use most frequently in my  clerkship. It is a direct response to all the things I've been  learning about formatting of documents specific to the Court.

 I just started last week, so I only have a few key sequences in there, but I very much like the idea of also incorporating our shared formatting knowledge. I  originally intended to grow this page on my own, then share it with  the list and allow group edits, but Laura's email made me think we may  as well get this off the ground now.

 If anyone else is on board, let's maybe figure out some rules of editing to make  this a functional wiki. I can actually create separate lists on the same page that we  can easily navigate through using a screenreader. One list can be  keyboard shortcuts. One can be formatting tips. And another can be, I  don't know, general warnings and concerns.

 This hosting website is incredibly user friendly. It was designed by  a friend of mine, and he always designs with blind users in mind.
 Here's the website.

www.txti.es/blindword

 Best,
 chris




--
Chris K. Stewart, J.D.
Ph:
(502)457-1757

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org


From laura.wolk at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 16:35:26 2016
From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 11:35:26 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
 and a Proposed Wiki Page
In-Reply-To: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHG6wD4xEt9XWGJ0DKc6tvtGkmGg0_RWA8yfWuyqUYsmo+z-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Chris, for sending this along.  I am excited about this
project, and I really think this will prove an extraordinarily helpful
resource.  Here are two suggestions.

First, I like your category suggestions.  I also think it would be
great if we could capture multiple methods of accomplishing the same
task, because different folks have different ways they may prefer to
do something.

Also, per Rod (and my own) practices, we could also have a "general
checklist" that's just the bare bones basics of the most useful global
changes before handing something over to a proofer.

Laura

On 11/14/16, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
>  I recently created a website called txti to create an editable
>  page of helpful MS Word commands that I use most frequently in my
>  clerkship. It is a direct response to all the things I've been
>  learning about formatting of documents specific to the Court.
>
>  I just started last week, so I only have a few key sequences in
> there, but I very much like the idea of also incorporating our shared
> formatting knowledge. I
>  originally intended to grow this page on my own, then share it with
>  the list and allow group edits, but Laura's email made me think we may
>  as well get this off the ground now.
>
>  If anyone else is on board, let's maybe figure out some rules of
> editing to make
>  this a functional wiki. I can actually create separate lists on the
> same page that we
>  can easily navigate through using a screenreader. One list can be
>  keyboard shortcuts. One can be formatting tips. And another can be, I
>  don't know, general warnings and concerns.
>
>  This hosting website is incredibly user friendly. It was designed by
>  a friend of mine, and he always designs with blind users in mind.
>  Here's the website.
>
> www.txti.es/blindword
>
>  Best,
>  chris
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris K. Stewart, J.D.
> Ph:
> (502)457-1757
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>


From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 16:41:28 2016
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 11:41:28 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <01a001d23e87$fd031370$f7093a50$@mdtap.org>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5340929A-CB94-488B-A888-8C0C54AC2C43@sbgaal.com>
	<CAHG6wD4p0O4k94VzUrdmfWbAKPydZ9ROnkAjFZ9THrY13iZLWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<01a001d23e87$fd031370$f7093a50$@mdtap.org>
Message-ID: <CAN4Q-EqBZf0ppVSy25CsJCni_giS=SknZwGu_hgpqR+YT71L3A@mail.gmail.com>

This has happened to me also. Using a sound scheme in JAWS that reads
font, attributes and color helps, but I still don't catch everything.
As far as quotes go, I believe if you ask JAWS to read the ASCII value
of the character, you can tell that the quotes are different, but
absent doing this, I'm not sure how you can reliably tell if the
quotation marks you use are consistent throughout your document. (I
assume there's a way to do this with other screen readers, but I don't
know what that is.) One of my assistant's tasks with every document I
send her is to make sure that quotation marks are consistent.

I think a wiki of some sort would be a good idea, and I would be happy
to contribute to it.

Angie


On 11/14/16, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Agree, Laura and just as flummoxed as you on that one.
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
> via BlindLaw
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 7:38 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Laura Wolk
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>
> Just one note though, Kelby.  Learning how to cite check and edit a
> **sighted** person's work is one thing.  Learning how to proof your own
> work, written as a blind person, is quite another.  I.e., a sighted person
> probably will notice if suddenly the font turns from 12 point black times
> new roman to 10.5 gray garamande.  How this happens?
>  I haven't a clue.  But these types of strange and inexplicable things have
> happened to me many times.
>
> On 11/12/16, Shannon Geihsler via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Where do I find the course?
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Shannon Brady Geihsler
>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler,PLLC
>> 1001 Main Street, Suite 803
>> Lubbock, Texas 79401
>> Phone:  (806) 763-3999
>> Mobile:  (806) 781-9296
>> Fax: (806) 749-3752
>> E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com
>> NOTICE the information contained in this communication is protected by
>> the attorney/client and/or the work/product privileges.  It along with
>> any attachments here to, is also covered by the Electronic
>> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2512.  It is
>> intended only for the personal and confidential use of the
>> recipient(s) named in the communication, and the privileges are not
>> waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail.  If the
>> person actually receiving this communication or any other reader of
>> the communication is not the named recipient, any use, dissemination,
>> distribution or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited.
>> If you have received this communication in error, please immediately
>> notify us by telephone (please call collect) and delete the original from
> your  system.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:55 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Brian Hartgen has a very useful training course on how to use MS Word
>>> with JAWS; it's expensive, but worth the price. I have thought of
>>> recording something similar as a basic intro to Word for bling
>>> attorneys and law students. I'm on law review now and do all the
>>> cite-check assignments myself; my editors don't send too much back.
>>> There are definitely ways to do it.
>>>
>>>> On 11/12/16, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another
>>>> question. Is there already a template for legal writing that could
>>>> be used? If not could such a template be created? I'm fairly certain
>>>> that a template that is generally acceptable could be useful to all
>>>> in the legal Community. Any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw"
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as I
>>>> know how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell me
>>>> what to change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.
>>>>
>>>> The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for lawyers
>>>> is a good one.
>>>> Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this
>>>> and end up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users?
>>>> Keep those tips coming.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Patti Chang
>>>> (410) 659-9314, x 2422
>>>> (773) 307-6440
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com
>


From rfarber at jw.com  Mon Nov 14 17:07:11 2016
From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 17:07:11 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <CAN4Q-EqBZf0ppVSy25CsJCni_giS=SknZwGu_hgpqR+YT71L3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5340929A-CB94-488B-A888-8C0C54AC2C43@sbgaal.com>
	<CAHG6wD4p0O4k94VzUrdmfWbAKPydZ9ROnkAjFZ9THrY13iZLWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<01a001d23e87$fd031370$f7093a50$@mdtap.org>
	<CAN4Q-EqBZf0ppVSy25CsJCni_giS=SknZwGu_hgpqR+YT71L3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40AFCDE@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com>

The easiest way that I have found to make sure that apostrophes and quotes are the same throughout the document is to do two global changes.  Change an apostrophe to an apostrophe and then change a quote to a quote.  Word changes all apostrophes and quotes to the kind that you have set.

Randy

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:41 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Angie Matney
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers

This has happened to me also. Using a sound scheme in JAWS that reads font, attributes and color helps, but I still don't catch everything.
As far as quotes go, I believe if you ask JAWS to read the ASCII value of the character, you can tell that the quotes are different, but absent doing this, I'm not sure how you can reliably tell if the quotation marks you use are consistent throughout your document. (I assume there's a way to do this with other screen readers, but I don't know what that is.) One of my assistant's tasks with every document I send her is to make sure that quotation marks are consistent.

I think a wiki of some sort would be a good idea, and I would be happy to contribute to it.

Angie


On 11/14/16, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Agree, Laura and just as flummoxed as you on that one.
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura 
> Wolk via BlindLaw
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 7:38 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Laura Wolk
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>
> Just one note though, Kelby.  Learning how to cite check and edit a
> **sighted** person's work is one thing.  Learning how to proof your 
> own work, written as a blind person, is quite another.  I.e., a 
> sighted person probably will notice if suddenly the font turns from 12 
> point black times new roman to 10.5 gray garamande.  How this happens?
>  I haven't a clue.  But these types of strange and inexplicable things 
> have happened to me many times.
>
> On 11/12/16, Shannon Geihsler via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Where do I find the course?
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Shannon Brady Geihsler
>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler,PLLC
>> 1001 Main Street, Suite 803
>> Lubbock, Texas 79401
>> Phone:  (806) 763-3999
>> Mobile:  (806) 781-9296
>> Fax: (806) 749-3752
>> E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com
>> NOTICE the information contained in this communication is protected 
>> by the attorney/client and/or the work/product privileges.  It along 
>> with any attachments here to, is also covered by the Electronic 
>> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2512.  It is 
>> intended only for the personal and confidential use of the
>> recipient(s) named in the communication, and the privileges are not 
>> waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail.  If the 
>> person actually receiving this communication or any other reader of 
>> the communication is not the named recipient, any use, dissemination, 
>> distribution or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited.
>> If you have received this communication in error, please immediately 
>> notify us by telephone (please call collect) and delete the original 
>> from
> your  system.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:55 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw 
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Brian Hartgen has a very useful training course on how to use MS 
>>> Word with JAWS; it's expensive, but worth the price. I have thought 
>>> of recording something similar as a basic intro to Word for bling 
>>> attorneys and law students. I'm on law review now and do all the 
>>> cite-check assignments myself; my editors don't send too much back.
>>> There are definitely ways to do it.
>>>
>>>> On 11/12/16, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another 
>>>> question. Is there already a template for legal writing that could 
>>>> be used? If not could such a template be created? I'm fairly 
>>>> certain that a template that is generally acceptable could be 
>>>> useful to all in the legal Community. Any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw"
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as 
>>>> I know how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell 
>>>> me what to change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.
>>>>
>>>> The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for 
>>>> lawyers is a good one.
>>>> Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this 
>>>> and end up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users?
>>>> Keep those tips coming.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Patti Chang
>>>> (410) 659-9314, x 2422
>>>> (773) 307-6440
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm
>> a
>> il.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdta
> p.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
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> mail.com
>

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From Attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Mon Nov 14 18:01:35 2016
From: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis, Esquire)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 13:01:35 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
 and a Proposed Wiki Page
In-Reply-To: <CAHG6wD4xEt9XWGJ0DKc6tvtGkmGg0_RWA8yfWuyqUYsmo+z-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHG6wD4xEt9XWGJ0DKc6tvtGkmGg0_RWA8yfWuyqUYsmo+z-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DCB9C16EC6CE423ABE29B805594A256F@RodTHINK>

I am fully supportive of this project and I look forward to making my 
contributions to its success. However, Chris, with all due respect to you, 
is there a way we can secure a more public platform for hosting the wiki so 
we can guarantee continuity?

Another way we can use the finished product is to forward it to Freedom 
Scientific, NVDA, and other screen readers to get them to focus their 
efforts on our needs. Maybe FS can take our ideas and suggestions and create 
a proof reading scheme in JAWS for legal documents, for instance.

On a different note, I know of a powerful proof reading software out there 
with tons of potential to do what we need, but unfortunately the developer 
was too timid at implementing major changes to the interface and that caused 
me to abandon my collaboration with his company. Maybe we can petition the 
screen reading folks to script it and make it accessible? The software is 
called "perfect it." Check it out and if it is of interest, maybe more of us 
can write to the developer to get him more motivated to fix the interface? 
He was willing to make changes, but not quickly enough for my taste.



Rod Alcidonis, Esq.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 11:35 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Laura Wolk ; Stewart,Christopher K
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers 
and a Proposed Wiki Page

Thanks, Chris, for sending this along.  I am excited about this
project, and I really think this will prove an extraordinarily helpful
resource.  Here are two suggestions.

First, I like your category suggestions.  I also think it would be
great if we could capture multiple methods of accomplishing the same
task, because different folks have different ways they may prefer to
do something.

Also, per Rod (and my own) practices, we could also have a "general
checklist" that's just the bare bones basics of the most useful global
changes before handing something over to a proofer.

Laura

On 11/14/16, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> 
wrote:
> Dear All,
>
>  I recently created a website called txti to create an editable
>  page of helpful MS Word commands that I use most frequently in my
>  clerkship. It is a direct response to all the things I've been
>  learning about formatting of documents specific to the Court.
>
>  I just started last week, so I only have a few key sequences in
> there, but I very much like the idea of also incorporating our shared
> formatting knowledge. I
>  originally intended to grow this page on my own, then share it with
>  the list and allow group edits, but Laura's email made me think we may
>  as well get this off the ground now.
>
>  If anyone else is on board, let's maybe figure out some rules of
> editing to make
>  this a functional wiki. I can actually create separate lists on the
> same page that we
>  can easily navigate through using a screenreader. One list can be
>  keyboard shortcuts. One can be formatting tips. And another can be, I
>  don't know, general warnings and concerns.
>
>  This hosting website is incredibly user friendly. It was designed by
>  a friend of mine, and he always designs with blind users in mind.
>  Here's the website.
>
> www.txti.es/blindword
>
>  Best,
>  chris
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris K. Stewart, J.D.
> Ph:
> (502)457-1757
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
BlindLaw:
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From laura.wolk at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 18:48:39 2016
From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 13:48:39 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40AFCDE@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5340929A-CB94-488B-A888-8C0C54AC2C43@sbgaal.com>
	<CAHG6wD4p0O4k94VzUrdmfWbAKPydZ9ROnkAjFZ9THrY13iZLWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<01a001d23e87$fd031370$f7093a50$@mdtap.org>
	<CAN4Q-EqBZf0ppVSy25CsJCni_giS=SknZwGu_hgpqR+YT71L3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40AFCDE@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com>
Message-ID: <CAHG6wD542nb=bJD1xSZuaMU8iD_bCvHJh1mYek1WVwKQSc8Mfg@mail.gmail.com>

Randy and Angie,

Randy, yes, global changes work, except for one little wrinkle: if you
do a global change to smart quotes, any quotation mark nnext to an
em-dash will end up facing the wrong way.  Sigh.

Angie, yes. Regular straight quotes are ascii value 34, where as smart
quotes are 8220 and 8221.  Regular apostrophes are ascii value 39, and
smart apostrophes are 8217.  Such useful knowledge I have!!

For the record, you can actually do an individual find for these. If
you hit control+f, then hit shift+the number 6, you can type in the
ascii value you are looking for. It has to be three digits, though, so
to search for straight quotes you must type 034, and for apostrophes
039.

I hope that's helpful.

Laura

On 11/14/16, Farber, Randy via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> The easiest way that I have found to make sure that apostrophes and quotes
> are the same throughout the document is to do two global changes.  Change an
> apostrophe to an apostrophe and then change a quote to a quote.  Word
> changes all apostrophes and quotes to the kind that you have set.
>
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie
> Matney via BlindLaw
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:41 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Angie Matney
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>
> This has happened to me also. Using a sound scheme in JAWS that reads font,
> attributes and color helps, but I still don't catch everything.
> As far as quotes go, I believe if you ask JAWS to read the ASCII value of
> the character, you can tell that the quotes are different, but absent doing
> this, I'm not sure how you can reliably tell if the quotation marks you use
> are consistent throughout your document. (I assume there's a way to do this
> with other screen readers, but I don't know what that is.) One of my
> assistant's tasks with every document I send her is to make sure that
> quotation marks are consistent.
>
> I think a wiki of some sort would be a good idea, and I would be happy to
> contribute to it.
>
> Angie
>
>
> On 11/14/16, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Agree, Laura and just as flummoxed as you on that one.
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura
>> Wolk via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 7:38 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>
>> Just one note though, Kelby.  Learning how to cite check and edit a
>> **sighted** person's work is one thing.  Learning how to proof your
>> own work, written as a blind person, is quite another.  I.e., a
>> sighted person probably will notice if suddenly the font turns from 12
>> point black times new roman to 10.5 gray garamande.  How this happens?
>>  I haven't a clue.  But these types of strange and inexplicable things
>> have happened to me many times.
>>
>> On 11/12/16, Shannon Geihsler via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Where do I find the course?
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler
>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler,PLLC
>>> 1001 Main Street, Suite 803
>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401
>>> Phone:  (806) 763-3999
>>> Mobile:  (806) 781-9296
>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752
>>> E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com
>>> NOTICE the information contained in this communication is protected
>>> by the attorney/client and/or the work/product privileges.  It along
>>> with any attachments here to, is also covered by the Electronic
>>> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2512.  It is
>>> intended only for the personal and confidential use of the
>>> recipient(s) named in the communication, and the privileges are not
>>> waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail.  If the
>>> person actually receiving this communication or any other reader of
>>> the communication is not the named recipient, any use, dissemination,
>>> distribution or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited.
>>> If you have received this communication in error, please immediately
>>> notify us by telephone (please call collect) and delete the original
>>> from
>> your  system.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:55 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Brian Hartgen has a very useful training course on how to use MS
>>>> Word with JAWS; it's expensive, but worth the price. I have thought
>>>> of recording something similar as a basic intro to Word for bling
>>>> attorneys and law students. I'm on law review now and do all the
>>>> cite-check assignments myself; my editors don't send too much back.
>>>> There are definitely ways to do it.
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/12/16, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another
>>>>> question. Is there already a template for legal writing that could
>>>>> be used? If not could such a template be created? I'm fairly
>>>>> certain that a template that is generally acceptable could be
>>>>> useful to all in the legal Community. Any thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw"
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as
>>>>> I know how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell
>>>>> me what to change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for
>>>>> lawyers is a good one.
>>>>> Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this
>>>>> and end up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users?
>>>>> Keep those tips coming.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Patti Chang
>>>>> (410) 659-9314, x 2422
>>>>> (773) 307-6440
>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm
>>> a
>>> il.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdta
>> p.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>


From PChang at nfb.org  Mon Nov 14 20:25:21 2016
From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 20:25:21 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
 and a Proposed Wiki Page
In-Reply-To: <DCB9C16EC6CE423ABE29B805594A256F@RodTHINK>
References: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHG6wD4xEt9XWGJ0DKc6tvtGkmGg0_RWA8yfWuyqUYsmo+z-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DCB9C16EC6CE423ABE29B805594A256F@RodTHINK>
Message-ID: <CO1PR17MB07759AF9FAA83C731D45C27AD7BC0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>

Don't forget that NABL has a web page. This might help drive hits to that page. 
On the other hand we would need to own the updating of the page. Scott, what do you think?


Patti Chang
(410) 659-9314, x 2422
(773) 307-6440
National Federation of the Blind

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis, Esquire via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 1:02 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers and a Proposed Wiki Page

I am fully supportive of this project and I look forward to making my contributions to its success. However, Chris, with all due respect to you, is there a way we can secure a more public platform for hosting the wiki so we can guarantee continuity?

Another way we can use the finished product is to forward it to Freedom Scientific, NVDA, and other screen readers to get them to focus their efforts on our needs. Maybe FS can take our ideas and suggestions and create a proof reading scheme in JAWS for legal documents, for instance.

On a different note, I know of a powerful proof reading software out there with tons of potential to do what we need, but unfortunately the developer was too timid at implementing major changes to the interface and that caused me to abandon my collaboration with his company. Maybe we can petition the screen reading folks to script it and make it accessible? The software is called "perfect it." Check it out and if it is of interest, maybe more of us can write to the developer to get him more motivated to fix the interface? 
He was willing to make changes, but not quickly enough for my taste.



Rod Alcidonis, Esq.


-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 11:35 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Laura Wolk ; Stewart,Christopher K
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers and a Proposed Wiki Page

Thanks, Chris, for sending this along.  I am excited about this project, and I really think this will prove an extraordinarily helpful resource.  Here are two suggestions.

First, I like your category suggestions.  I also think it would be great if we could capture multiple methods of accomplishing the same task, because different folks have different ways they may prefer to do something.

Also, per Rod (and my own) practices, we could also have a "general checklist" that's just the bare bones basics of the most useful global changes before handing something over to a proofer.

Laura

On 11/14/16, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> Dear All,
>
>  I recently created a website called txti to create an editable  page 
> of helpful MS Word commands that I use most frequently in my  
> clerkship. It is a direct response to all the things I've been  
> learning about formatting of documents specific to the Court.
>
>  I just started last week, so I only have a few key sequences in 
> there, but I very much like the idea of also incorporating our shared 
> formatting knowledge. I  originally intended to grow this page on my 
> own, then share it with  the list and allow group edits, but Laura's 
> email made me think we may  as well get this off the ground now.
>
>  If anyone else is on board, let's maybe figure out some rules of 
> editing to make  this a functional wiki. I can actually create 
> separate lists on the same page that we  can easily navigate through 
> using a screenreader. One list can be  keyboard shortcuts. One can be 
> formatting tips. And another can be, I  don't know, general warnings 
> and concerns.
>
>  This hosting website is incredibly user friendly. It was designed by  
> a friend of mine, and he always designs with blind users in mind.
>  Here's the website.
>
> http://www.txti.es/blindword
>
>  Best,
>  chris
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris K. Stewart, J.D.
> Ph:
> (502)457-1757
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From mnowicki4 at icloud.com  Mon Nov 14 21:40:47 2016
From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 15:40:47 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <CAHG6wD542nb=bJD1xSZuaMU8iD_bCvHJh1mYek1WVwKQSc8Mfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5340929A-CB94-488B-A888-8C0C54AC2C43@sbgaal.com>
	<CAHG6wD4p0O4k94VzUrdmfWbAKPydZ9ROnkAjFZ9THrY13iZLWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<01a001d23e87$fd031370$f7093a50$@mdtap.org>
	<CAN4Q-EqBZf0ppVSy25CsJCni_giS=SknZwGu_hgpqR+YT71L3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40AFCDE@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com>
	<CAHG6wD542nb=bJD1xSZuaMU8iD_bCvHJh1mYek1WVwKQSc8Mfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003201d23ebf$c36be730$4a43b590$@icloud.com>

Hi All,

This is a very useful thread. One tool I have found indispensable to my
legal writing is Text Analyzer: a feature that was added to JAWS several
years ago. Text analyzer detects various formatting inconsistencies in a
Word document, including font changes, space runs, and stray punctuation
marks. I find it especially useful in making sure that I don't have large
blocks of underlined text, which sometimes happens when I underline a case
name, but turn off underlining just before typing the comma that follows,
because Word doesn't like when part of a word has font attributes that
differ in any way from the rest of the word. I hope you all find this
helpful.

Best,

Michal

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 12:49 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers

Randy and Angie,

Randy, yes, global changes work, except for one little wrinkle: if you do a
global change to smart quotes, any quotation mark nnext to an em-dash will
end up facing the wrong way.  Sigh.

Angie, yes. Regular straight quotes are ascii value 34, where as smart
quotes are 8220 and 8221.  Regular apostrophes are ascii value 39, and smart
apostrophes are 8217.  Such useful knowledge I have!!

For the record, you can actually do an individual find for these. If you hit
control+f, then hit shift+the number 6, you can type in the ascii value you
are looking for. It has to be three digits, though, so to search for
straight quotes you must type 034, and for apostrophes 039.

I hope that's helpful.

Laura

On 11/14/16, Farber, Randy via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> The easiest way that I have found to make sure that apostrophes and 
> quotes are the same throughout the document is to do two global 
> changes.  Change an apostrophe to an apostrophe and then change a 
> quote to a quote.  Word changes all apostrophes and quotes to the kind
that you have set.
>
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie 
> Matney via BlindLaw
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:41 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Angie Matney
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>
> This has happened to me also. Using a sound scheme in JAWS that reads 
> font, attributes and color helps, but I still don't catch everything.
> As far as quotes go, I believe if you ask JAWS to read the ASCII value 
> of the character, you can tell that the quotes are different, but 
> absent doing this, I'm not sure how you can reliably tell if the 
> quotation marks you use are consistent throughout your document. (I 
> assume there's a way to do this with other screen readers, but I don't 
> know what that is.) One of my assistant's tasks with every document I 
> send her is to make sure that quotation marks are consistent.
>
> I think a wiki of some sort would be a good idea, and I would be happy 
> to contribute to it.
>
> Angie
>
>
> On 11/14/16, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Agree, Laura and just as flummoxed as you on that one.
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 7:38 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>
>> Just one note though, Kelby.  Learning how to cite check and edit a
>> **sighted** person's work is one thing.  Learning how to proof your 
>> own work, written as a blind person, is quite another.  I.e., a 
>> sighted person probably will notice if suddenly the font turns from 
>> 12 point black times new roman to 10.5 gray garamande.  How this happens?
>>  I haven't a clue.  But these types of strange and inexplicable 
>> things have happened to me many times.
>>
>> On 11/12/16, Shannon Geihsler via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Where do I find the course?
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler
>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler,PLLC
>>> 1001 Main Street, Suite 803
>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401
>>> Phone:  (806) 763-3999
>>> Mobile:  (806) 781-9296
>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752
>>> E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com
>>> NOTICE the information contained in this communication is protected 
>>> by the attorney/client and/or the work/product privileges.  It along 
>>> with any attachments here to, is also covered by the Electronic 
>>> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2512.  It is 
>>> intended only for the personal and confidential use of the
>>> recipient(s) named in the communication, and the privileges are not 
>>> waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail.  If 
>>> the person actually receiving this communication or any other reader 
>>> of the communication is not the named recipient, any use, 
>>> dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication is strictly
prohibited.
>>> If you have received this communication in error, please immediately 
>>> notify us by telephone (please call collect) and delete the original 
>>> from
>> your  system.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:55 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw 
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Brian Hartgen has a very useful training course on how to use MS 
>>>> Word with JAWS; it's expensive, but worth the price. I have thought 
>>>> of recording something similar as a basic intro to Word for bling 
>>>> attorneys and law students. I'm on law review now and do all the 
>>>> cite-check assignments myself; my editors don't send too much back.
>>>> There are definitely ways to do it.
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/12/16, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another 
>>>>> question. Is there already a template for legal writing that could 
>>>>> be used? If not could such a template be created? I'm fairly 
>>>>> certain that a template that is generally acceptable could be 
>>>>> useful to all in the legal Community. Any thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw"
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as 
>>>>> I know how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell 
>>>>> me what to change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for 
>>>>> lawyers is a good one.
>>>>> Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this 
>>>>> and end up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users?
>>>>> Keep those tips coming.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Patti Chang
>>>>> (410) 659-9314, x 2422
>>>>> (773) 307-6440
>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>> Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g
>>> m
>>> a
>>> il.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdt
>> a
>> p.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40
>> g
>> mail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> BlindLaw:
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> il.com
>

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From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Tue Nov 15 00:26:55 2016
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 00:26:55 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Columbia Legal Services Staff Attorney Openings - Seattle
Message-ID: <CY1PR09MB1146C92DA9896455FF5F2FE1F9BF0@CY1PR09MB1146.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>



From: fangseattle at googlegroups.com [mailto:fangseattle at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daquiz, Abigail - SOL
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 4:21 PM
To: fangseattle at googlegroups.com
Subject: [fangs] FW: CLS Staff Attorney Openings

It’s a good time to join the fight—indeed!

Abigail G. Daquiz
U.S. Department of Labor | Office of the Solicitor | 206.757.6753 (direct)

From: Trisa Kern [mailto:Trisa.Kern at ColumbiaLegal.org]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 4:17 PM
To: ATJ Community
Subject: [atj-community] CLS Staff Attorney Openings

Colleagues,

I want to make sure that the attached positions are circulated far and wide—we have some great opportunities available at CLS, and it’s a good time to join the fight.

We just posted an Elder Law Fellow<http://columbialegal.org/sites/default/files/Elder%20Law%20Fellow%20Announcement.pdf> position in our Seattle office, which is a rare opportunity for a new attorney to serve as a one-year fellow in support of our Basic Human Needs Project and its safeguard of essential benefits and rights for low income people.

We are also hiring a Billingual Staff Attorney<http://columbialegal.org/sites/default/files/Seattle%20Attorney%20Announcement%20-%20WFP%20-%20FINAL.pdf> for our Working Families Project in Seattle, to focus on farmworker and immigrant rights, fight unfair labor practices, wage theft, and unsafe working conditions.

Finally, our Institutions Project<http://columbialegal.org/sites/default/files/IP%20Staff%20Attorney%20Announcement%20Final.pdf> is looking for a seasoned attorney to represent people confined in Washintgon’s jails, prisons and other facilities.

Best,

Trisa Kern, Director of Program Administration
Columbia Legal Services
Central Support Office

101 Yesler Way, Suite 300 | Seattle, WA 98104 | (206) 287-8614
trisa.kern at columbialegal.org<mailto:trisa.kern at columbialegal.org> | www.columbialegal.org<http://www.columbialegal.org/>
Sign up<http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?llr=hbcpgwkab&p=oi&m=1110994028583&sit=diip5chhb&f=c34bdb54-4ad4-4ba9-9a3b-1c56bebdeeef> for newsletters and updates.

[cid:image001.png at 01CF4DBE.DEBFA3E0]<https://www.facebook.com/columbialegalservices> [cid:image002.jpg at 01CF4DBE.DEBFA3E0] <https://twitter.com/columbialgl_org>  Our vision of justice: When people have the necessary tools and opportunity to achieve social and economic justice, a more inclusive and equitable society is possible.

CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This communication and attachments may contain privileged or confidential information. If you feel you have received this message in error, please alert me of that fact and then delete it. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of this communication by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited.



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From mrallman116 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 01:07:34 2016
From: mrallman116 at gmail.com (Melissa Allman)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 19:07:34 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
In-Reply-To: <003201d23ebf$c36be730$4a43b590$@icloud.com>
References: <CAHG6wD57=_vJWUHRW20LajT6xgOM4SbcVWBgfR3+gF=vTrMvXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E678898D-F608-41DE-AF5F-33FE208D70A2@gmail.com>
	<BEE2EE1A-8259-48A9-A8AE-6F9E8CBA83FC@gmail.com>
	<CAGZitzKcygYfOGVdC0nEQypFzdmorBNwBrMEXK6S1mo7Q-wmbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CO1PR17MB077546E598EA80A21586574AD7BA0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJZzU7_+wdFuD6_8F8z_K=KHv-Zz+f-VNS-_Ccbua+vTcgOB0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU7_Dw+XF+fXNsKaDX7epymEvO5fLsJcvKOCJnZBtDh_SoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJZzU79LOm8pcj8EgaZxJWoZ5V8PgaYM0rufATN+rUV+E4WauA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPMpJYvOZxXaOckcy9Ygbg6X2A-+jYE=N96oi4Sxaiia6jgXRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5340929A-CB94-488B-A888-8C0C54AC2C43@sbgaal.com>
	<CAHG6wD4p0O4k94VzUrdmfWbAKPydZ9ROnkAjFZ9THrY13iZLWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<01a001d23e87$fd031370$f7093a50$@mdtap.org>
	<CAN4Q-EqBZf0ppVSy25CsJCni_giS=SknZwGu_hgpqR+YT71L3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40AFCDE@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com>
	<CAHG6wD542nb=bJD1xSZuaMU8iD_bCvHJh1mYek1WVwKQSc8Mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<003201d23ebf$c36be730$4a43b590$@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <C8C89886-4F5C-4F59-B3D7-CBB3B15D6FE7@gmail.com>

I really appreciate you bringing this to our attention. I have been a JWS user for a very long time and have never paid attention to this feature. I will be trying it tomorrow.

Melissa

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 14, 2016, at 3:40 PM, Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> This is a very useful thread. One tool I have found indispensable to my
> legal writing is Text Analyzer: a feature that was added to JAWS several
> years ago. Text analyzer detects various formatting inconsistencies in a
> Word document, including font changes, space runs, and stray punctuation
> marks. I find it especially useful in making sure that I don't have large
> blocks of underlined text, which sometimes happens when I underline a case
> name, but turn off underlining just before typing the comma that follows,
> because Word doesn't like when part of a word has font attributes that
> differ in any way from the rest of the word. I hope you all find this
> helpful.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Michal
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
> via BlindLaw
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 12:49 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
> 
> Randy and Angie,
> 
> Randy, yes, global changes work, except for one little wrinkle: if you do a
> global change to smart quotes, any quotation mark nnext to an em-dash will
> end up facing the wrong way.  Sigh.
> 
> Angie, yes. Regular straight quotes are ascii value 34, where as smart
> quotes are 8220 and 8221.  Regular apostrophes are ascii value 39, and smart
> apostrophes are 8217.  Such useful knowledge I have!!
> 
> For the record, you can actually do an individual find for these. If you hit
> control+f, then hit shift+the number 6, you can type in the ascii value you
> are looking for. It has to be three digits, though, so to search for
> straight quotes you must type 034, and for apostrophes 039.
> 
> I hope that's helpful.
> 
> Laura
> 
>> On 11/14/16, Farber, Randy via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> The easiest way that I have found to make sure that apostrophes and 
>> quotes are the same throughout the document is to do two global 
>> changes.  Change an apostrophe to an apostrophe and then change a 
>> quote to a quote.  Word changes all apostrophes and quotes to the kind
> that you have set.
>> 
>> Randy
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie 
>> Matney via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:41 AM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>> Cc: Angie Matney
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>> 
>> This has happened to me also. Using a sound scheme in JAWS that reads 
>> font, attributes and color helps, but I still don't catch everything.
>> As far as quotes go, I believe if you ask JAWS to read the ASCII value 
>> of the character, you can tell that the quotes are different, but 
>> absent doing this, I'm not sure how you can reliably tell if the 
>> quotation marks you use are consistent throughout your document. (I 
>> assume there's a way to do this with other screen readers, but I don't 
>> know what that is.) One of my assistant's tasks with every document I 
>> send her is to make sure that quotation marks are consistent.
>> 
>> I think a wiki of some sort would be a good idea, and I would be happy 
>> to contribute to it.
>> 
>> Angie
>> 
>> 
>>> On 11/14/16, Jim McCarthy via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Agree, Laura and just as flummoxed as you on that one.
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 7:38 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>> 
>>> Just one note though, Kelby.  Learning how to cite check and edit a
>>> **sighted** person's work is one thing.  Learning how to proof your 
>>> own work, written as a blind person, is quite another.  I.e., a 
>>> sighted person probably will notice if suddenly the font turns from 
>>> 12 point black times new roman to 10.5 gray garamande.  How this happens?
>>> I haven't a clue.  But these types of strange and inexplicable 
>>> things have happened to me many times.
>>> 
>>>> On 11/12/16, Shannon Geihsler via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Where do I find the course?
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler
>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler,PLLC
>>>> 1001 Main Street, Suite 803
>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401
>>>> Phone:  (806) 763-3999
>>>> Mobile:  (806) 781-9296
>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752
>>>> E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com
>>>> NOTICE the information contained in this communication is protected 
>>>> by the attorney/client and/or the work/product privileges.  It along 
>>>> with any attachments here to, is also covered by the Electronic 
>>>> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2512.  It is 
>>>> intended only for the personal and confidential use of the
>>>> recipient(s) named in the communication, and the privileges are not 
>>>> waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail.  If 
>>>> the person actually receiving this communication or any other reader 
>>>> of the communication is not the named recipient, any use, 
>>>> dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication is strictly
> prohibited.
>>>> If you have received this communication in error, please immediately 
>>>> notify us by telephone (please call collect) and delete the original 
>>>> from
>>> your  system.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 5:55 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw 
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brian Hartgen has a very useful training course on how to use MS 
>>>>> Word with JAWS; it's expensive, but worth the price. I have thought 
>>>>> of recording something similar as a basic intro to Word for bling 
>>>>> attorneys and law students. I'm on law review now and do all the 
>>>>> cite-check assignments myself; my editors don't send too much back.
>>>>> There are definitely ways to do it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 11/12/16, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello all I just wanted to add to this conversation another 
>>>>>> question. Is there already a template for legal writing that could 
>>>>>> be used? If not could such a template be created? I'm fairly 
>>>>>> certain that a template that is generally acceptable could be 
>>>>>> useful to all in the legal Community. Any thoughts?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 12, 2016 6:38 PM, "Chang, Patti via BlindLaw"
>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is why I like a system where I get the document as perfect as 
>>>>>> I know how, send it to a proofer, and have the proofer either tell 
>>>>>> me what to change or tell me what they changed so I learn as I go.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The idea of developing a list of style and proofing tips for 
>>>>>> lawyers is a good one.
>>>>>> Maybe one of our CLE topics at national convention can cover this 
>>>>>> and end up with a style guide specifically for screen reader users?
>>>>>> Keep those tips coming.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Patti Chang
>>>>>> (410) 659-9314, x 2422
>>>>>> (773) 307-6440
>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>> Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:28 PM
>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] decreasing reliance on readers as proofers
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g
>>>> m
>>>> a
>>>> il.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdt
>>> a
>>> p.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40
>>> g
>>> mail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma
>> il.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrallman116%40gmail.com


From chris.stewart at uky.edu  Tue Nov 15 14:09:43 2016
From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:09:43 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] following Up on Decreasing Reliance on Sighted
 Assistants
Message-ID: <CAAyF1PBz-ZpG2oFrAKEdGvh_Bf4j_sQ1Sjfy8p1Mz61tNpdyNg@mail.gmail.com>

Good Morning Rod,
I'm was wondering what you mean by "a more public platform." The page
I provided is public, accessible, and editable by anyone with the edit
password. Of course, I'm open to using another platform, but the
notion of, for instance, using the NABL website strikes me as a
tedious solution, not to mention to potential pitfalls in giving a
number of people who aren't web developers the ability to alter the
code of the group's website. One potential solution would be to link
the txti page to the NABL website, which would accomplish Patti's goal
of increasing traffic to the NABL site.

The reason I used txti is because it is the easiest, most accessible
platform for creating text-based webpages that I've ever found. Most
of us don't have the time or interest to learn how to code, but
editing on txti is as easy as typing in Word itself. Again, I'm open
to anything, but I wanted to attempt a better explanation of txti in
case I was unclear before.

Best,
Chris


From tim at timeldermusic.com  Tue Nov 15 16:28:45 2016
From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:28:45 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
 and a Proposed Wiki Page
In-Reply-To: <DCB9C16EC6CE423ABE29B805594A256F@RodTHINK>
References: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>	<CAHG6wD4xEt9XWGJ0DKc6tvtGkmGg0_RWA8yfWuyqUYsmo+z-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DCB9C16EC6CE423ABE29B805594A256F@RodTHINK>
Message-ID: <00d801d23f5d$56159890$0240c9b0$@timeldermusic.com>

Collaborating on these techniques seems like a good idea.  Personally, I
added custom hot keys for the paragraph and section symbols to make it
faster to add those into text documents.  I also use ALT and J-Tools, which
are two third-party productivity utilities that add more functionality to
JAWS/Office.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire [mailto:Attorney at alcidonislaw.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:02 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
and a Proposed Wiki Page

I am fully supportive of this project and I look forward to making my
contributions to its success. However, Chris, with all due respect to you,
is there a way we can secure a more public platform for hosting the wiki so
we can guarantee continuity?

Another way we can use the finished product is to forward it to Freedom
Scientific, NVDA, and other screen readers to get them to focus their
efforts on our needs. Maybe FS can take our ideas and suggestions and create
a proof reading scheme in JAWS for legal documents, for instance.

On a different note, I know of a powerful proof reading software out there
with tons of potential to do what we need, but unfortunately the developer
was too timid at implementing major changes to the interface and that caused
me to abandon my collaboration with his company. Maybe we can petition the
screen reading folks to script it and make it accessible? The software is
called "perfect it." Check it out and if it is of interest, maybe more of us
can write to the developer to get him more motivated to fix the interface? 
He was willing to make changes, but not quickly enough for my taste.



Rod Alcidonis, Esq.


-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 11:35 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Laura Wolk ; Stewart,Christopher K
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
and a Proposed Wiki Page

Thanks, Chris, for sending this along.  I am excited about this project, and
I really think this will prove an extraordinarily helpful resource.  Here
are two suggestions.

First, I like your category suggestions.  I also think it would be great if
we could capture multiple methods of accomplishing the same task, because
different folks have different ways they may prefer to do something.

Also, per Rod (and my own) practices, we could also have a "general
checklist" that's just the bare bones basics of the most useful global
changes before handing something over to a proofer.

Laura

On 11/14/16, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> Dear All,
>
>  I recently created a website called txti to create an editable  page 
> of helpful MS Word commands that I use most frequently in my  
> clerkship. It is a direct response to all the things I've been  
> learning about formatting of documents specific to the Court.
>
>  I just started last week, so I only have a few key sequences in 
> there, but I very much like the idea of also incorporating our shared 
> formatting knowledge. I  originally intended to grow this page on my 
> own, then share it with  the list and allow group edits, but Laura's 
> email made me think we may  as well get this off the ground now.
>
>  If anyone else is on board, let's maybe figure out some rules of 
> editing to make  this a functional wiki. I can actually create 
> separate lists on the same page that we  can easily navigate through 
> using a screenreader. One list can be  keyboard shortcuts. One can be 
> formatting tips. And another can be, I  don't know, general warnings 
> and concerns.
>
>  This hosting website is incredibly user friendly. It was designed by  
> a friend of mine, and he always designs with blind users in mind.
>  Here's the website.
>
> www.txti.es/blindword
>
>  Best,
>  chris
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris K. Stewart, J.D.
> Ph:
> (502)457-1757
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma
> il.com
>

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonisla
w.com 






From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue Nov 15 17:08:42 2016
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. Labarre)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 10:08:42 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
 and a Proposed Wiki Page
In-Reply-To: <00d801d23f5d$56159890$0240c9b0$@timeldermusic.com>
References: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>	<CAHG6wD4xEt9XWGJ0DKc6tvtGkmGg0_RWA8yfWuyqUYsmo+z-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>	<DCB9C16EC6CE423ABE29B805594A256F@RodTHINK>
	<00d801d23f5d$56159890$0240c9b0$@timeldermusic.com>
Message-ID: <047e01d23f62$eb572ef0$c2058cd0$@labarrelaw.com>

Hey everyone, I have been following this thread with great interest.  The
time for NABL to update its website and roll out various resources is long
over due.  Whether we host certain resources on the website or link to them
is somewhat irrelevant.  My goal is to have our website serve as the main
hub to access information to help blind practitioners of all stripes.

So my plan is to appoint a website, technology,and social media committee.
We have had some effort at this in the past but have not executed plans.
Please let me know if you are interested in serving on this committee and we
will develop some infrastructure to support the process.  Please contact me
at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979.  

Thanks,
Scott LaBarre, President
NABL

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Elder
via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 9:29 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Tim Elder <tim at timeldermusic.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
and a Proposed Wiki Page

Collaborating on these techniques seems like a good idea.  Personally, I
added custom hot keys for the paragraph and section symbols to make it
faster to add those into text documents.  I also use ALT and J-Tools, which
are two third-party productivity utilities that add more functionality to
JAWS/Office.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire [mailto:Attorney at alcidonislaw.com]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:02 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
and a Proposed Wiki Page

I am fully supportive of this project and I look forward to making my
contributions to its success. However, Chris, with all due respect to you,
is there a way we can secure a more public platform for hosting the wiki so
we can guarantee continuity?

Another way we can use the finished product is to forward it to Freedom
Scientific, NVDA, and other screen readers to get them to focus their
efforts on our needs. Maybe FS can take our ideas and suggestions and create
a proof reading scheme in JAWS for legal documents, for instance.

On a different note, I know of a powerful proof reading software out there
with tons of potential to do what we need, but unfortunately the developer
was too timid at implementing major changes to the interface and that caused
me to abandon my collaboration with his company. Maybe we can petition the
screen reading folks to script it and make it accessible? The software is
called "perfect it." Check it out and if it is of interest, maybe more of us
can write to the developer to get him more motivated to fix the interface? 
He was willing to make changes, but not quickly enough for my taste.



Rod Alcidonis, Esq.


-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 11:35 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Laura Wolk ; Stewart,Christopher K
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
and a Proposed Wiki Page

Thanks, Chris, for sending this along.  I am excited about this project, and
I really think this will prove an extraordinarily helpful resource.  Here
are two suggestions.

First, I like your category suggestions.  I also think it would be great if
we could capture multiple methods of accomplishing the same task, because
different folks have different ways they may prefer to do something.

Also, per Rod (and my own) practices, we could also have a "general
checklist" that's just the bare bones basics of the most useful global
changes before handing something over to a proofer.

Laura

On 11/14/16, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> Dear All,
>
>  I recently created a website called txti to create an editable  page 
> of helpful MS Word commands that I use most frequently in my 
> clerkship. It is a direct response to all the things I've been 
> learning about formatting of documents specific to the Court.
>
>  I just started last week, so I only have a few key sequences in 
> there, but I very much like the idea of also incorporating our shared 
> formatting knowledge. I  originally intended to grow this page on my 
> own, then share it with  the list and allow group edits, but Laura's 
> email made me think we may  as well get this off the ground now.
>
>  If anyone else is on board, let's maybe figure out some rules of 
> editing to make  this a functional wiki. I can actually create 
> separate lists on the same page that we  can easily navigate through 
> using a screenreader. One list can be  keyboard shortcuts. One can be 
> formatting tips. And another can be, I  don't know, general warnings 
> and concerns.
>
>  This hosting website is incredibly user friendly. It was designed by 
> a friend of mine, and he always designs with blind users in mind.
>  Here's the website.
>
> www.txti.es/blindword
>
>  Best,
>  chris
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris K. Stewart, J.D.
> Ph:
> (502)457-1757
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma
> il.com
>

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonisla
w.com 





_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.
com



From ttomasi at driowa.org  Tue Nov 15 18:00:11 2016
From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 18:00:11 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] following Up on Decreasing Reliance on Sighted
 Assistants
In-Reply-To: <CAAyF1PBz-ZpG2oFrAKEdGvh_Bf4j_sQ1Sjfy8p1Mz61tNpdyNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAyF1PBz-ZpG2oFrAKEdGvh_Bf4j_sQ1Sjfy8p1Mz61tNpdyNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN2PR20MB08304CF2CD7E1EB65CDBE6EED1BF0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Chris:

Thanks for this explanation of txti. This sounds like a good solution. I like the idea of linking the txti site to the NABL website, so that attorneys with the password can add their own tips and tricks to the wiki, rather than waiting for the manager of the website to add content.

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney



400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities

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This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 8:10 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: Stewart, Christopher K <chris.stewart at uky.edu>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] following Up on Decreasing Reliance on Sighted Assistants

Good Morning Rod,
I'm was wondering what you mean by "a more public platform." The page I provided is public, accessible, and editable by anyone with the edit password. Of course, I'm open to using another platform, but the notion of, for instance, using the NABL website strikes me as a tedious solution, not to mention to potential pitfalls in giving a number of people who aren't web developers the ability to alter the code of the group's website. One potential solution would be to link the txti page to the NABL website, which would accomplish Patti's goal of increasing traffic to the NABL site.

The reason I used txti is because it is the easiest, most accessible platform for creating text-based webpages that I've ever found. Most of us don't have the time or interest to learn how to code, but editing on txti is as easy as typing in Word itself. Again, I'm open to anything, but I wanted to attempt a better explanation of txti in case I was unclear before.

Best,
Chris

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org


From Attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Tue Nov 15 18:23:18 2016
From: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis, Esquire)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:23:18 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] following Up on Decreasing Reliance on Sighted
 Assistants
In-Reply-To: <CAAyF1PBz-ZpG2oFrAKEdGvh_Bf4j_sQ1Sjfy8p1Mz61tNpdyNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAyF1PBz-ZpG2oFrAKEdGvh_Bf4j_sQ1Sjfy8p1Mz61tNpdyNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B9AA49A7D0E9458E8CC136DD48EDB801@RodTHINK>

Chris, my apologies, I did not realize that this was already a public 
platform.




Rod Alcidonis, Esq.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 9:09 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: Stewart, Christopher K
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] following Up on Decreasing Reliance on Sighted 
Assistants

Good Morning Rod,
I'm was wondering what you mean by "a more public platform." The page
I provided is public, accessible, and editable by anyone with the edit
password. Of course, I'm open to using another platform, but the
notion of, for instance, using the NABL website strikes me as a
tedious solution, not to mention to potential pitfalls in giving a
number of people who aren't web developers the ability to alter the
code of the group's website. One potential solution would be to link
the txti page to the NABL website, which would accomplish Patti's goal
of increasing traffic to the NABL site.

The reason I used txti is because it is the easiest, most accessible
platform for creating text-based webpages that I've ever found. Most
of us don't have the time or interest to learn how to code, but
editing on txti is as easy as typing in Word itself. Again, I'm open
to anything, but I wanted to attempt a better explanation of txti in
case I was unclear before.

Best,
Chris

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Wed Nov 16 17:01:13 2016
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. Labarre)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 10:01:13 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [DRBA] Fwd: Program Announcement
In-Reply-To: <F9B7DCED-5F25-4CE1-A276-FF4167431332@driowa.org>
References: <W516791584652141479253006@atl4webmail14>
	<F9B7DCED-5F25-4CE1-A276-FF4167431332@driowa.org>
Message-ID: <065501d2402b$09d87dc0$1d897940$@labarrelaw.com>

fyi

 

From: Disability Rights Bar Association [mailto:DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 5:46 PM
To: DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: [DRBA] Fwd: Program Announcement

 



Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. 

Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com <mailto:tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com> 

Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors.


Begin forwarded message:

From: Rachel J Minter <rminter at RJMINTERLAW.COM <mailto:rminter at RJMINTERLAW.COM> >
Date: November 15, 2016 at 5:36:46 PM CST
To: <3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG <mailto:3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG> >
Subject: Program Announcement
Reply-To: "The Disability Discussion Docket (3D)" <3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG <mailto:3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG> >, <rminter at RJMINTERLAW.COM <mailto:rminter at RJMINTERLAW.COM> >

The New York State Bar Association is presenting a program on “Disabilities in the Legal Profession” on Tuesday, December 13, 2016 from 9:00 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.  The live program will be in NYC, at 1540 Broadway, Suite 1010, but there will be a simultaneous webcast for attendees in other locations.

 

Topics will include:

 

●  Navigating Entry Into the Legal Profession as a Lawyer with a Disability (LWD) – Obtaining Accommodations to take the LSAT and MCBE, such as Using Assistive Technology to Level the Playing Field

 

●  Employment of LWDs - Lack of Reliable Figures about LWDs in Practice; Overcoming Employer Biases and Assumptions; Identifying and Requesting Workplace Accommodation 

 

●  Special Challenges for Lawyers with Mental Health Disabilities

 

●  The Future for LWDs – How to Join and Play a Meaningful Role in the Legal Profession

 

 

Speakers (partial list):

 

Jack Chen, a blind patent attorney at Google (whose existence I learned of on this listserv, thanks) ((https://bol.bna.com/heres-how-googles-blind-lawyer-does-his-job/) and Anat Maytal of Baker Hostetler, President of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing Bar Association (an article about her organization’s group swearing-in at the Supreme Court is at  http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/780450/us-supreme-court-swears-in-a-dozen-deaf-lawyers).  They will discuss their career paths and the technology they use.

 

Elizabeth Grossman (former senior trial attorney at EEOC), of Disability Rights New York and Michael Gilberg, a founding board member of the National Association of Attorneys with Disabilties, will address disclosure issues for LWDs.

 

Eileen Travis, director of the New York City Bar Association’s Lawyer Assistance Project,  Sara Liss of Disability Rights New York  and Anupa Iyer, a policy advisor at the EEOC in Washington, will look at mental illness in the legal profession.

 

Rachel Minter, a labor and employment lawyer in private practice in NYC who has represented clients with disabilities for over 20 years, is Program Planning Chair and Moderator.  She developed the concept for the program, designed the agenda and recruited the speakers.  (Me ↑ )

 

4.5 Continuing Legal Education credits are available for attorneys.  See the attached brochure for further information about the program and how to register.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rachel J. Minter
Law Office of Rachel J. Minter
345 Seventh Avenue, 21st floor
New York, New York 10001

tel. (212) 643-0966
fax (212) 643-0980
email:  <mailto:rminter at rjminterlaw.com> rminter at rjminterlaw.com

The information transmitted in this e-mail is privileged and/or confidential and intended to be read solely by the recipient(s). If you received this e-mail in error, please contact us immediately.

REMINDER: The DRBA listserv is intended to facilitate open discussion and sharing of ideas. Members need to feel confident that their discussions will not be distributed beyond the group unnecessarily. PLEASE CONSULT WITH THE SENDER(S) BEFORE FORWARDING ANY LISTSERV DISCUSSIONS BEYOND THE DRBA GROUP. DONATE: The DRBA is a valuable free resource to its members. But the DRBA does have expenses for management, web and listserv services. PLEASE DONATE TODAY any amount you wish Online at http://GiveToSU.com Select “Burton Blatt Institute Fund” from the “My gift is designated to” drop down menu and indicate “DRBA” in the “Gift is to be used for” box. BRIEF BANK: Are you sharing briefs, interrogatories, decisions or other non-confidential resources on this listserv? ARCHIVE them for all present and future members by logging in to the DRBA website, going to the MEMBERS AREA and selecting ONLINE DOCUMENT DATABASE for further instructions. Contact DRBA-Law at law.syr.edu <mailto:DRBA-Law at law.syr.edu>  for login credentials and related help.

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From ttomasi at driowa.org  Wed Nov 16 22:37:13 2016
From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 22:37:13 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
Message-ID: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format. Does anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using JAWS?

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney

[Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]

400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.


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From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Nov 17 01:43:10 2016
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 19:43:10 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.nampr
	d20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000070170241@mailfront2.g2host.com>

While I have never seen such a thing, I would imagine it would be 
difficult, at best. A document never originates as a PDF.  A PDF is 
produced either converted or saved from some other kind of document, 
such as word, so you could request the original. The most common 
reason to use PDF's is so people can't change them.

Dave

At 04:37 PM 11/16/2016, you wrote:
>Content-Language: en-US
>Content-Type: multipart/related;
> 
>boundary="_004_SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0SN2PR20MB0830namp_";
>         type="multipart/alternative"
>
>I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe 
>format. Does anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF 
>using JAWS?
>
>Tai Tomasi, J.D.
>Staff Attorney
>
>[Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]
>
>400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
>Des Moines, Iowa 50309
>Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
>FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
>E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
>www.driowa.org
>
>Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of 
>Iowans with disabilities
>
>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>
>This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law 
>firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use 
>of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged 
>attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by 
>anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are 
>not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing 
>of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the 
>e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, 
>notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any 
>attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and 
>destroy any printouts.



From rfarber at jw.com  Thu Nov 17 02:21:32 2016
From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 02:21:32 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <31F2EE3645B8CB43A190156AB388DF13B40BA2E5@pdc-exch02.jwllp.com>

I always ask them to resend it in Word.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 4:37 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Tai Tomasi
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format. Does anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using JAWS?

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney

[Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]

400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.




From ttomasi at driowa.org  Thu Nov 17 14:34:58 2016
From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:34:58 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <auto-000070170241@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
	<auto-000070170241@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <SN2PR20MB08300272FD6EA7B1637102B0D1B10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

The challenge is that my firm requires all documents to be sent out in PDF format to ensure that no metadata or tracked changes are transmitted. When I send a pdf to a colleague at another firm, they are expected to mark it up in PDF format.

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney



400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews via BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 7:43 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

While I have never seen such a thing, I would imagine it would be difficult, at best. A document never originates as a PDF.  A PDF is produced either converted or saved from some other kind of document, such as word, so you could request the original. The most common reason to use PDF's is so people can't change them.

Dave

At 04:37 PM 11/16/2016, you wrote:
>Content-Language: en-US
>Content-Type: multipart/related;
> 
>boundary="_004_SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0SN2PR20MB0830namp_";
>         type="multipart/alternative"
>
>I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format. 
>Does anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using 
>JAWS?
>
>Tai Tomasi, J.D.
>Staff Attorney
>
>[Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]
>
>400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
>Des Moines, Iowa 50309
>Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
>FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
>E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
>www.driowa.org
>
>Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of 
>Iowans with disabilities
>
>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>
>This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm 
>of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the 
>named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client 
>communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than 
>an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, 
>you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any 
>attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you 
>have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and 
>delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or 
>storage media and destroy any printouts.


_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org


From lmendez716 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 14:55:55 2016
From: lmendez716 at gmail.com (Luis Mendez)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 09:55:55 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB08300272FD6EA7B1637102B0D1B10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>	<auto-000070170241@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<SN2PR20MB08300272FD6EA7B1637102B0D1B10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <007b01d240e2$b31b67f0$195237d0$@gmail.com>

Good morning Tai:

Looks like we are in for another interesting discussion.   If you have
OmniPage Ultimate and/or Nuance Power PDF 2.0 available you could try
converting the document from PDF to Word.  The tracked changes made by
others should be preserved.  You can then make your proposed changes and
reconvert the resulting document back to PDF.  You could run into a problem
if the document is password protected.  If nothing else works, it's time for
a reliable and trusted reader.

Luis

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi
via BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 9:35 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Tai Tomasi <ttomasi at driowa.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

The challenge is that my firm requires all documents to be sent out in PDF
format to ensure that no metadata or tracked changes are transmitted. When I
send a pdf to a colleague at another firm, they are expected to mark it up
in PDF format.

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney



400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans
with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of
Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named
recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client
communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an
intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are
prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from
making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this
e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any
attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any
printouts.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
Andrews via BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 7:43 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

While I have never seen such a thing, I would imagine it would be difficult,
at best. A document never originates as a PDF.  A PDF is produced either
converted or saved from some other kind of document, such as word, so you
could request the original. The most common reason to use PDF's is so people
can't change them.

Dave

At 04:37 PM 11/16/2016, you wrote:
>Content-Language: en-US
>Content-Type: multipart/related;
> 
>boundary="_004_SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0SN2PR20MB0830namp_";
>         type="multipart/alternative"
>
>I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format. 
>Does anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using 
>JAWS?
>
>Tai Tomasi, J.D.
>Staff Attorney
>
>[Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]
>
>400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
>Des Moines, Iowa 50309
>Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
>FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
>E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
>www.driowa.org
>
>Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of 
>Iowans with disabilities
>
>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>
>This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm 
>of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the 
>named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client 
>communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than 
>an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, 
>you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any 
>attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you 
>have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and 
>delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or 
>storage media and destroy any printouts.


_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmendez716%40gmail.com



From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 17 15:26:09 2016
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:26:09 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB08300272FD6EA7B1637102B0D1B10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
	<auto-000070170241@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<SN2PR20MB08300272FD6EA7B1637102B0D1B10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <207ccf69-5ed3-ea6f-0508-bb8a57c2cb74@yahoo.com>

Is there any possibility of exporting the document to Word (Adobe Pro 
should retain formatting/redlining), doing whatever needs to be done, 
and saving again as a PDF? I recognize that this isn't the most graceful 
solution in the world, but I did this during my summer internship with 
some success. Just a thought.


On 11/17/2016 9:34 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw wrote:
> The challenge is that my firm requires all documents to be sent out in PDF format to ensure that no metadata or tracked changes are transmitted. When I send a pdf to a colleague at another firm, they are expected to mark it up in PDF format.
>
> Tai Tomasi, J.D.
> Staff Attorney
>
>
>
> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
> Des Moines, Iowa 50309
> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org
> www.driowa.org
>
> Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>
> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews via BlindLaw
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 7:43 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
>
> While I have never seen such a thing, I would imagine it would be difficult, at best. A document never originates as a PDF.  A PDF is produced either converted or saved from some other kind of document, such as word, so you could request the original. The most common reason to use PDF's is so people can't change them.
>
> Dave
>
> At 04:37 PM 11/16/2016, you wrote:
>> Content-Language: en-US
>> Content-Type: multipart/related;
>>
>> boundary="_004_SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0SN2PR20MB0830namp_";
>>          type="multipart/alternative"
>>
>> I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format.
>> Does anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using
>> JAWS?
>>
>> Tai Tomasi, J.D.
>> Staff Attorney
>>
>> [Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]
>>
>> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
>> Des Moines, Iowa 50309
>> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
>> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
>> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
>> www.driowa.org
>>
>> Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of
>> Iowans with disabilities
>>
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>>
>> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm
>> of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the
>> named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client
>> communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than
>> an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient,
>> you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any
>> attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you
>> have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and
>> delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or
>> storage media and destroy any printouts.
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com


---
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From angie.matney at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 15:50:23 2016
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:50:23 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <207ccf69-5ed3-ea6f-0508-bb8a57c2cb74@yahoo.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
	<auto-000070170241@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<SN2PR20MB08300272FD6EA7B1637102B0D1B10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
	<207ccf69-5ed3-ea6f-0508-bb8a57c2cb74@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAN4Q-Eq_qDrqpk5LFa738Greu02kfnR-ie-h2UvqktaZ4_N_Mg@mail.gmail.com>

Tai, how did the other attorney mark it up? (Is this someone adverse
to you, or someone with whom you are collaborating?) Did they make
handwritten comments to the document, or did they edit it in Word and
then convert it to PDF?

I think the issue of what your firm requires when documents are sent
out is separate from what you can ask for when documents are received.
You certainly can ask this other individual to send you a Word
document, even if you can't necessarily respond with one. I have had
to do this on occasion. I've not yet found a reliable method other
than a reader for dealing with PDF comments.

Not sure that's very helpful, but I wish you the best of luck.



On 11/17/16, James Fetter via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Is there any possibility of exporting the document to Word (Adobe Pro
> should retain formatting/redlining), doing whatever needs to be done,
> and saving again as a PDF? I recognize that this isn't the most graceful
> solution in the world, but I did this during my summer internship with
> some success. Just a thought.
>
>
> On 11/17/2016 9:34 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw wrote:
>> The challenge is that my firm requires all documents to be sent out in PDF
>> format to ensure that no metadata or tracked changes are transmitted. When
>> I send a pdf to a colleague at another firm, they are expected to mark it
>> up in PDF format.
>>
>> Tai Tomasi, J.D.
>> Staff Attorney
>>
>>
>>
>> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
>> Des Moines, Iowa 50309
>> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
>> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
>> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org
>> www.driowa.org
>>
>> Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans
>> with disabilities
>>
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>>
>> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of
>> Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named
>> recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client
>> communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an
>> intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you
>> are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments
>> or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received
>> this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail,
>> any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and
>> destroy any printouts.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>> Andrews via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 7:43 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
>>
>> While I have never seen such a thing, I would imagine it would be
>> difficult, at best. A document never originates as a PDF.  A PDF is
>> produced either converted or saved from some other kind of document, such
>> as word, so you could request the original. The most common reason to use
>> PDF's is so people can't change them.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 04:37 PM 11/16/2016, you wrote:
>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>> Content-Type: multipart/related;
>>>
>>> boundary="_004_SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0SN2PR20MB0830namp_";
>>>          type="multipart/alternative"
>>>
>>> I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format.
>>> Does anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using
>>> JAWS?
>>>
>>> Tai Tomasi, J.D.
>>> Staff Attorney
>>>
>>> [Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]
>>>
>>> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
>>> Des Moines, Iowa 50309
>>> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
>>> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
>>> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
>>> www.driowa.org
>>>
>>> Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of
>>> Iowans with disabilities
>>>
>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>>>
>>> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm
>>> of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the
>>> named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client
>>> communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than
>>> an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient,
>>> you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any
>>> attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you
>>> have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and
>>> delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or
>>> storage media and destroy any printouts.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com
>


From tim at timeldermusic.com  Thu Nov 17 21:49:03 2016
From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 13:49:03 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <006d01d2411c$69c3e020$3d4ba060$@timeldermusic.com>

Does Adobe convert the track changes and comments back into MS Word format
if you save the PDF file as an MS Word file?  Also, you can use a more
verbose JAWS sound scheme to have redlines and strike-through text read in a
different voice.



-----Original Message-----
From: Tai Tomasi [mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 2:37 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format. Does
anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using JAWS?

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney

[Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]

400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans
with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of
Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named
recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client
communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an
intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are
prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from
making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this
e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any
attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any
printouts.





From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 05:37:52 2016
From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 05:37:52 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGZitzLDGjRxsCduQ8W0_f0Coo_w+WHuXTfo9v_zHeUvtBn8ww@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tai,

This is a tricky one. The firm I work for has a similar approach to
circulating pdfs and word documents and I know most colleagues do.
It's a good rule and I agree with it because I've heard stories of
things coming through in metadata that one would not wish the other
side in a matter to know about.

I tend to review the document sent back as a text document and then to
check back on the pdf itself if there are parts where I'm not clear
what has been deleted etc or If I'm not sure what a comment relates
to.

I'd be really interested to hear if you come up with a better solution.

Ger


From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 06:14:37 2016
From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 06:14:37 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
 and a Proposed Wiki Page
In-Reply-To: <047e01d23f62$eb572ef0$c2058cd0$@labarrelaw.com>
References: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHG6wD4xEt9XWGJ0DKc6tvtGkmGg0_RWA8yfWuyqUYsmo+z-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DCB9C16EC6CE423ABE29B805594A256F@RodTHINK>
	<00d801d23f5d$56159890$0240c9b0$@timeldermusic.com>
	<047e01d23f62$eb572ef0$c2058cd0$@labarrelaw.com>
Message-ID: <CAGZitzJ=DP1JqH-9DGJ_Dp5=dm9WXAH18gAtd_2W6yGxaaqRcw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I would be interested in helping with this, when time allows.

Ger

On 11/15/16, Scott C. Labarre via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hey everyone, I have been following this thread with great interest.  The
> time for NABL to update its website and roll out various resources is long
> over due.  Whether we host certain resources on the website or link to them
> is somewhat irrelevant.  My goal is to have our website serve as the main
> hub to access information to help blind practitioners of all stripes.
>
> So my plan is to appoint a website, technology,and social media committee.
> We have had some effort at this in the past but have not executed plans.
> Please let me know if you are interested in serving on this committee and
> we
> will develop some infrastructure to support the process.  Please contact me
> at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott LaBarre, President
> NABL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Elder
> via BlindLaw
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 9:29 AM
> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tim Elder <tim at timeldermusic.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
> and a Proposed Wiki Page
>
> Collaborating on these techniques seems like a good idea.  Personally, I
> added custom hot keys for the paragraph and section symbols to make it
> faster to add those into text documents.  I also use ALT and J-Tools, which
> are two third-party productivity utilities that add more functionality to
> JAWS/Office.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire [mailto:Attorney at alcidonislaw.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:02 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
> and a Proposed Wiki Page
>
> I am fully supportive of this project and I look forward to making my
> contributions to its success. However, Chris, with all due respect to you,
> is there a way we can secure a more public platform for hosting the wiki so
> we can guarantee continuity?
>
> Another way we can use the finished product is to forward it to Freedom
> Scientific, NVDA, and other screen readers to get them to focus their
> efforts on our needs. Maybe FS can take our ideas and suggestions and
> create
> a proof reading scheme in JAWS for legal documents, for instance.
>
> On a different note, I know of a powerful proof reading software out there
> with tons of potential to do what we need, but unfortunately the developer
> was too timid at implementing major changes to the interface and that
> caused
> me to abandon my collaboration with his company. Maybe we can petition the
> screen reading folks to script it and make it accessible? The software is
> called "perfect it." Check it out and if it is of interest, maybe more of
> us
> can write to the developer to get him more motivated to fix the interface?
> He was willing to make changes, but not quickly enough for my taste.
>
>
>
> Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 11:35 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Laura Wolk ; Stewart,Christopher K
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
> and a Proposed Wiki Page
>
> Thanks, Chris, for sending this along.  I am excited about this project,
> and
> I really think this will prove an extraordinarily helpful resource.  Here
> are two suggestions.
>
> First, I like your category suggestions.  I also think it would be great if
> we could capture multiple methods of accomplishing the same task, because
> different folks have different ways they may prefer to do something.
>
> Also, per Rod (and my own) practices, we could also have a "general
> checklist" that's just the bare bones basics of the most useful global
> changes before handing something over to a proofer.
>
> Laura
>
> On 11/14/16, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>>  I recently created a website called txti to create an editable  page
>> of helpful MS Word commands that I use most frequently in my
>> clerkship. It is a direct response to all the things I've been
>> learning about formatting of documents specific to the Court.
>>
>>  I just started last week, so I only have a few key sequences in
>> there, but I very much like the idea of also incorporating our shared
>> formatting knowledge. I  originally intended to grow this page on my
>> own, then share it with  the list and allow group edits, but Laura's
>> email made me think we may  as well get this off the ground now.
>>
>>  If anyone else is on board, let's maybe figure out some rules of
>> editing to make  this a functional wiki. I can actually create
>> separate lists on the same page that we  can easily navigate through
>> using a screenreader. One list can be  keyboard shortcuts. One can be
>> formatting tips. And another can be, I  don't know, general warnings
>> and concerns.
>>
>>  This hosting website is incredibly user friendly. It was designed by
>> a friend of mine, and he always designs with blind users in mind.
>>  Here's the website.
>>
>> www.txti.es/blindword
>>
>>  Best,
>>  chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris K. Stewart, J.D.
>> Ph:
>> (502)457-1757
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonisla
> w.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.
> com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com
>


From william_t_miller at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 18 14:36:31 2016
From: william_t_miller at hotmail.com (William Miller)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 14:36:31 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <006d01d2411c$69c3e020$3d4ba060$@timeldermusic.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
	<006d01d2411c$69c3e020$3d4ba060$@timeldermusic.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR17MB05023024DDB7AFF7D95ACF02D3B00@BY2PR17MB0502.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Tai,

  I second using a more robust sound scheme for reviewing PDFs. You can set
JAWS to read font attributes (such as color, bold, italic, strikethrough,
etc.) with a different voice, or to make a sound (e.g. a whistle sound) when
it reads the font attribute. JAWS has many different sound scheme options,
or you can create your own. Here is a good tutorial on using and modifying
sound schemes:

http://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Surfs-Up/Speech_Sounds_Schemes.htm


  If you would rather just go to the Settings Center and experiment with
different sound schemes, you can get to the window by pressing INSERT+ALT+S.


  I hope this helps. Take care,

Will


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Elder [mailto:tim at timeldermusic.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 4:49 PM
To: 'Tai Tomasi' <ttomasi at driowa.org>; 'Blind Law Mailing List'
<blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

Does Adobe convert the track changes and comments back into MS Word format
if you save the PDF file as an MS Word file?  Also, you can use a more
verbose JAWS sound scheme to have redlines and strike-through text read in a
different voice.



-----Original Message-----
From: Tai Tomasi [mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 2:37 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format. Does
anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using JAWS?

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney

[Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]

400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans
with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of
Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named
recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client
communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an
intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are
prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from
making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this
e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any
attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any
printouts.







From PChang at nfb.org  Fri Nov 18 15:47:13 2016
From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 15:47:13 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR17MB05023024DDB7AFF7D95ACF02D3B00@BY2PR17MB0502.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
	<006d01d2411c$69c3e020$3d4ba060$@timeldermusic.com>
	<BY2PR17MB05023024DDB7AFF7D95ACF02D3B00@BY2PR17MB0502.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CO1PR17MB077502833BDC0C2A6581D7C3D7B00@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>

This is such great information, I really hope that we can create a repository for the information and maybe even do a CLE segment on it. 


Patti Chang
(410) 659-9314, x 2422
(773) 307-6440
National Federation of the Blind

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Miller via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 8:37 AM
To: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Tai Tomasi'; 'Blind Law Mailing List'
Cc: William Miller
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

Hi Tai,

  I second using a more robust sound scheme for reviewing PDFs. You can set JAWS to read font attributes (such as color, bold, italic, strikethrough,
etc.) with a different voice, or to make a sound (e.g. a whistle sound) when it reads the font attribute. JAWS has many different sound scheme options, or you can create your own. Here is a good tutorial on using and modifying sound schemes:

http://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Surfs-Up/Speech_Sounds_Schemes.htm


  If you would rather just go to the Settings Center and experiment with different sound schemes, you can get to the window by pressing INSERT+ALT+S.


  I hope this helps. Take care,

Will


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Elder [mailto:tim at timeldermusic.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 4:49 PM
To: 'Tai Tomasi' <ttomasi at driowa.org>; 'Blind Law Mailing List'
<blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

Does Adobe convert the track changes and comments back into MS Word format if you save the PDF file as an MS Word file?  Also, you can use a more verbose JAWS sound scheme to have redlines and strike-through text read in a different voice.



-----Original Message-----
From: Tai Tomasi [mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 2:37 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format. Does anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using JAWS?

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney

[Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]

400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
http://www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.






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From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Fri Nov 18 16:44:04 2016
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 16:44:04 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Summer Law Clerk Opportunity
In-Reply-To: <LYRIS-9689257-170563-2016.11.17-16.24.39--noel.nightingale#ed.gov@list.wsba.org>
References: <LYRIS-9689257-170563-2016.11.17-16.24.39--noel.nightingale#ed.gov@list.wsba.org>
Message-ID: <CY1PR09MB114614881E599EDAFA554454F9B00@CY1PR09MB1146.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>



From: Diana Brechtel [mailto:dbrechtel at foum.law]
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 4:24 PM
To: Diversity Stakeholders
Subject: [diversity-stakeholders] Summer Law Clerk Opportunity


Summer Law Clerk

Forsberg & Umlauf, P.S., a civil litigation defense firm, is currently seeking 2nd year law student candidates for a Summer Law Clerk position beginning in May, 2017.  Applicants should send a résumé, cover letter, and writing sample to employment at FoUm.law<mailto:employment at FoUm.law> for consideration.


Diana L. Brechtel
Legal Assistant

Forsberg & Umlauf, P.S.
901 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1400
Seattle, WA 98164
OFFICE

   206-689-8500

FAX

   206-689-8501

EMAIL

   DBrechtel at FoUm.law<mailto:DBrechtel at FoUm.law>


[cid:116111719243200151 at us-mta-87.us.mimecast.lan]<http://www.foum.law>



--CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE--

THIS MESSAGE AND/OR THE DOCUMENT(S) ACCOMPANYING THIS ELECTRONIC TRANSMISSION MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY NAMED ABOVE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, BE AWARE THAT ANY DISCLOSURE, COPYING, DISTRIBUTION OR USE OF THE CONTENTS OF THIS TRANSMISSION IS PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US BY TELEPHONE, MAIL OR ELECTRONIC MAIL, AND DESTROY THIS COMMUNICATION.

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From michael.mcglashon at comcast.net  Fri Nov 18 17:43:49 2016
From: michael.mcglashon at comcast.net (mike mcglashon)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 11:43:49 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Summer Law Clerk Opportunity
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR09MB114614881E599EDAFA554454F9B00@CY1PR09MB1146.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <LYRIS-9689257-170563-2016.11.17-16.24.39--noel.nightingale#ed.gov@list.wsba.org>
	<CY1PR09MB114614881E599EDAFA554454F9B00@CY1PR09MB1146.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E4102CE4B7244319B2F3871096D0DDE8@mcglashonHP>

Hi guys:

how is it that we open the "view slide show" or "...png" attachments that 
are posted to this list?



-----Original Message----- 
From: Nightingale, Noel via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 10:44 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: Nightingale, Noel
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Summer Law Clerk Opportunity

_______________________________________________
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BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From tim at timeldermusic.com  Fri Nov 18 18:19:58 2016
From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 10:19:58 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB08300272FD6EA7B1637102B0D1B10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>	<auto-000070170241@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<SN2PR20MB08300272FD6EA7B1637102B0D1B10@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <00c001d241c8$5ec4dbf0$1c4e93d0$@timeldermusic.com>

I would check if the advanced version of Adobe allows you to convert track
changes and comments back and forth.  Further, there is a feature in MS Word
that enables a sender to wipe all meta data and the like.  Your firm should
either rethink the overly broad security policy or purchase a version of
Adobe that converts track changes and comments between Adobe and MS Word.
Opposing law firms often send MS Word files back and forth to each other.
There is a way to do that securely.  Also, I've obtained Adobe converts from
MS Word from opposing counsel that included comments that were clearly not
intended for me to read.  SO relying on one file format or the other is no
guarantee of security.





-----Original Message-----
From: Tai Tomasi [mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org] 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:35 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

The challenge is that my firm requires all documents to be sent out in PDF
format to ensure that no metadata or tracked changes are transmitted. When I
send a pdf to a colleague at another firm, they are expected to mark it up
in PDF format.

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney



400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans
with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of
Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named
recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client
communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an
intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are
prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from
making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this
e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any
attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any
printouts.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
Andrews via BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 7:43 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

While I have never seen such a thing, I would imagine it would be difficult,
at best. A document never originates as a PDF.  A PDF is produced either
converted or saved from some other kind of document, such as word, so you
could request the original. The most common reason to use PDF's is so people
can't change them.

Dave

At 04:37 PM 11/16/2016, you wrote:
>Content-Language: en-US
>Content-Type: multipart/related;
> 
>boundary="_004_SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0SN2PR20MB0830namp_";
>         type="multipart/alternative"
>
>I have received a redlined document from a colleague in Adobe format. 
>Does anyone know how to review comments and changes in a PDF using 
>JAWS?
>
>Tai Tomasi, J.D.
>Staff Attorney
>
>[Description: DR%20IA%20LawCenter]
>
>400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
>Des Moines, Iowa 50309
>Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
>FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
>E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org<mailto:ttomasi at driowa.org>
>www.driowa.org
>
>Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of 
>Iowans with disabilities
>
>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>
>This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm 
>of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the 
>named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client 
>communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than 
>an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, 
>you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any 
>attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you 
>have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and 
>delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or 
>storage media and destroy any printouts.


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From deepa.goraya at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 01:43:50 2016
From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 20:43:50 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
 and a Proposed Wiki Page
In-Reply-To: <DCB9C16EC6CE423ABE29B805594A256F@RodTHINK>
References: <CAAyF1PCPAw3tt+c-YNaSP3XnTAR3DfvqBKHCguDk_MRvBmnE7A@mail.gmail.com>	<CAHG6wD4xEt9XWGJ0DKc6tvtGkmGg0_RWA8yfWuyqUYsmo+z-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<DCB9C16EC6CE423ABE29B805594A256F@RodTHINK>
Message-ID: <032901d24206$648dfe70$2da9fb50$@gmail.com>

I am interested in helping with this project as well. I  think formatting
tips like this are really needed.

Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod
Alcidonis, Esquire via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 1:02 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Rod Alcidonis, Esquire <Attorney at alcidonislaw.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
and a Proposed Wiki Page

I am fully supportive of this project and I look forward to making my
contributions to its success. However, Chris, with all due respect to you,
is there a way we can secure a more public platform for hosting the wiki so
we can guarantee continuity?

Another way we can use the finished product is to forward it to Freedom
Scientific, NVDA, and other screen readers to get them to focus their
efforts on our needs. Maybe FS can take our ideas and suggestions and create
a proof reading scheme in JAWS for legal documents, for instance.

On a different note, I know of a powerful proof reading software out there
with tons of potential to do what we need, but unfortunately the developer
was too timid at implementing major changes to the interface and that caused
me to abandon my collaboration with his company. Maybe we can petition the
screen reading folks to script it and make it accessible? The software is
called "perfect it." Check it out and if it is of interest, maybe more of us
can write to the developer to get him more motivated to fix the interface? 
He was willing to make changes, but not quickly enough for my taste.



Rod Alcidonis, Esq.


-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 11:35 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Laura Wolk ; Stewart,Christopher K
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Follow Up On Decreasing Reliance on Human Readers
and a Proposed Wiki Page

Thanks, Chris, for sending this along.  I am excited about this project, and
I really think this will prove an extraordinarily helpful resource.  Here
are two suggestions.

First, I like your category suggestions.  I also think it would be great if
we could capture multiple methods of accomplishing the same task, because
different folks have different ways they may prefer to do something.

Also, per Rod (and my own) practices, we could also have a "general
checklist" that's just the bare bones basics of the most useful global
changes before handing something over to a proofer.

Laura

On 11/14/16, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> Dear All,
>
>  I recently created a website called txti to create an editable  page 
> of helpful MS Word commands that I use most frequently in my  
> clerkship. It is a direct response to all the things I've been  
> learning about formatting of documents specific to the Court.
>
>  I just started last week, so I only have a few key sequences in 
> there, but I very much like the idea of also incorporating our shared 
> formatting knowledge. I  originally intended to grow this page on my 
> own, then share it with  the list and allow group edits, but Laura's 
> email made me think we may  as well get this off the ground now.
>
>  If anyone else is on board, let's maybe figure out some rules of 
> editing to make  this a functional wiki. I can actually create 
> separate lists on the same page that we  can easily navigate through 
> using a screenreader. One list can be  keyboard shortcuts. One can be 
> formatting tips. And another can be, I  don't know, general warnings 
> and concerns.
>
>  This hosting website is incredibly user friendly. It was designed by  
> a friend of mine, and he always designs with blind users in mind.
>  Here's the website.
>
> www.txti.es/blindword
>
>  Best,
>  chris
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris K. Stewart, J.D.
> Ph:
> (502)457-1757
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma
> il.com
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonisla
w.com 


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om



From deepa.goraya at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 01:52:00 2016
From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 20:52:00 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] following Up on Decreasing Reliance on Sighted
 Assistants
In-Reply-To: <SN2PR20MB08304CF2CD7E1EB65CDBE6EED1BF0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAAyF1PBz-ZpG2oFrAKEdGvh_Bf4j_sQ1Sjfy8p1Mz61tNpdyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<SN2PR20MB08304CF2CD7E1EB65CDBE6EED1BF0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <046e01d24207$892a49e0$9b7edda0$@gmail.com>

I agree.

Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi
via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 1:00 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Tai Tomasi <ttomasi at driowa.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] following Up on Decreasing Reliance on Sighted
Assistants

Chris:

Thanks for this explanation of txti. This sounds like a good solution. I
like the idea of linking the txti site to the NABL website, so that
attorneys with the password can add their own tips and tricks to the wiki,
rather than waiting for the manager of the website to add content.

Tai Tomasi, J.D.
Staff Attorney



400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
Des Moines, Iowa 50309
Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org
www.driowa.org

Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans
with disabilities

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of
Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named
recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client
communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an
intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are
prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from
making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this
e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any
attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any
printouts.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stewart,
Christopher K via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 8:10 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: Stewart, Christopher K <chris.stewart at uky.edu>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] following Up on Decreasing Reliance on Sighted
Assistants

Good Morning Rod,
I'm was wondering what you mean by "a more public platform." The page I
provided is public, accessible, and editable by anyone with the edit
password. Of course, I'm open to using another platform, but the notion of,
for instance, using the NABL website strikes me as a tedious solution, not
to mention to potential pitfalls in giving a number of people who aren't web
developers the ability to alter the code of the group's website. One
potential solution would be to link the txti page to the NABL website, which
would accomplish Patti's goal of increasing traffic to the NABL site.

The reason I used txti is because it is the easiest, most accessible
platform for creating text-based webpages that I've ever found. Most of us
don't have the time or interest to learn how to code, but editing on txti is
as easy as typing in Word itself. Again, I'm open to anything, but I wanted
to attempt a better explanation of txti in case I was unclear before.

Best,
Chris

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om



From deepa.goraya at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 01:58:17 2016
From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 20:58:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document
In-Reply-To: <CAGZitzLDGjRxsCduQ8W0_f0Coo_w+WHuXTfo9v_zHeUvtBn8ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN2PR20MB0830AFF9738141942D59EC24D1BE0@SN2PR20MB0830.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAGZitzLDGjRxsCduQ8W0_f0Coo_w+WHuXTfo9v_zHeUvtBn8ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <050b01d24208$69d8c070$3d8a4150$@gmail.com>

I agree with using  Adobe Pro or some other program to convert it to Word,
making changes in red-line, and converting it back to a PDF if you can, or
asking for the Word version from your colleague. You can also use the
keystroke Windows Semicolon to bring up a list of all revisions, comments,
and footnotes.

Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard
Sadlier via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 12:38 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Gerard Sadlier <gerard.sadlier at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reviewing Redlining in Adobe PDF Document

Hi Tai,

This is a tricky one. The firm I work for has a similar approach to
circulating pdfs and word documents and I know most colleagues do.
It's a good rule and I agree with it because I've heard stories of things
coming through in metadata that one would not wish the other side in a
matter to know about.

I tend to review the document sent back as a text document and then to check
back on the pdf itself if there are parts where I'm not clear what has been
deleted etc or If I'm not sure what a comment relates to.

I'd be really interested to hear if you come up with a better solution.

Ger

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om



From pattischang at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 01:52:35 2016
From: pattischang at gmail.com (Patti S Chang)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2016 19:52:35 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Happy Holidays
Message-ID: <006501d2491a$17af0890$470d19b0$@gmail.com>

 

Hello,

We all hope this note finds you well. Please drop us a note to share your
happenings. We want to share lots of new news with you all. 

 

Johnathon is now working as a desktop support analyst at Belvedere
<http://www.belvederetrading.com/>  which is a stock trading company. He
works long hours and saves his money. John and Rebecca just celebrated the
second anniversary of their first date. 

 

Julia will spend next summer working as an intern at Mortenson
<http://www.mortenson.com>  which is a construction management firm as well
as a general contractor. She is already admitted to the Global Leaders in
Construction Management
<http://cee.illinois.edu/areas/construction-engineering-and-management>
program at University of Illinois for her masters degree. 

 

Francisco keeps attempting to reduce his overtime at Swedish Covenant
Hospital <http://swedishcovenant.org/> . He works as the head nurse in their
pacemaker clinic but also rotates more than is doable to their stress
testing unit. His church board continues to occupy his spare-time. 

 

Patti started a second career in September. Her Director of Outreach
position for the  

National Federation of the Blind <http://nfb.org>  ("NFB") challenges her
daily. Learning to become a professional fundraiser and regular travel keep
her moving.

 

We seem to be racking up those frequent flier miles. Francisco and Patti
traveled to Puerto Villarta with Patti's family in January. They spent the
fourth of July in Orlando again with the National Convention of the NFB and
recently returned from an NFB trip to Kansas to attend their state
convention. Patti flies to Baltimore and back once a month or so now since
NFB is headquartered there. Patti, Francisco, and John will be in Michigan
in mid-December. All of us are headed to Belize to visit Francisco's family
in December. John has a trip to the Bahamas coming up soon and Julia travels
to Singapore in January.  

 

The picture included in this message was taken just this Thanksgiving Day.
We have much to be thankful for as you can see. Please stay in touch. Love
you all. 

 

Francisco, Patti, Johnathon, and Julia

 

Consider a Gift <https://nfb.org/donate2016>  to the National Federation of
the Blind. NFB changes lives. See how in Jumping the fire
<https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm15/bm1505/bm150502.htm> .



 

 

Live the Life you Want.

 

Patti S. Gregory-Chang Esq., Treasurer

National Federation of the Blind of Illinois

pattischang at gmail.com

 

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From PChang at nfb.org  Mon Nov 28 12:35:24 2016
From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:35:24 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Happy Holidays
Message-ID: <CO1PR17MB0775F5EA5791AC204B8D050DD78A0@CO1PR17MB0775.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>



Patti Chang
(410) 659-9314, x 2422
(773) 307-6440
National Federation of the Blind

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti S Chang via BlindLaw
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 7:53 PM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
Cc: Chang, Patti
Subject: [blindlaw] Happy Holidays

 

Hello,

We all hope this note finds you well. Please drop us a note to share your happenings. We want to share lots of new news with you all. 

 

Johnathon is now working as a desktop support analyst at Belvedere <http://www.belvederetrading.com/>  which is a stock trading company. He works long hours and saves his money. John and Rebecca just celebrated the second anniversary of their first date. 

 

Julia will spend next summer working as an intern at Mortenson <http://www.mortenson.com>  which is a construction management firm as well as a general contractor. She is already admitted to the Global Leaders in Construction Management <http://cee.illinois.edu/areas/construction-engineering-and-management>
program at University of Illinois for her masters degree. 

 

Francisco keeps attempting to reduce his overtime at Swedish Covenant Hospital <http://swedishcovenant.org/> . He works as the head nurse in their pacemaker clinic but also rotates more than is doable to their stress testing unit. His church board continues to occupy his spare-time. 

 

Patti started a second career in September. Her Director of Outreach position for the  

National Federation of the Blind <http://nfb.org>  ("NFB") challenges her daily. Learning to become a professional fundraiser and regular travel keep her moving.

 

We seem to be racking up those frequent flier miles. Francisco and Patti traveled to Puerto Villarta with Patti's family in January. They spent the fourth of July in Orlando again with the National Convention of the NFB and recently returned from an NFB trip to Kansas to attend their state convention. Patti flies to Baltimore and back once a month or so now since NFB is headquartered there. Patti, Francisco, and John will be in Michigan in mid-December. All of us are headed to Belize to visit Francisco's family in December. John has a trip to the Bahamas coming up soon and Julia travels to Singapore in January.  

 

The picture included in this message was taken just this Thanksgiving Day.
We have much to be thankful for as you can see. Please stay in touch. Love you all. 

 

Francisco, Patti, Johnathon, and Julia

 

Consider a Gift <https://nfb.org/donate2016>  to the National Federation of the Blind. NFB changes lives. See how in Jumping the fire <https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm15/bm1505/bm150502.htm> .



 

 

Live the Life you Want.

 

Patti S. Gregory-Chang Esq., Treasurer

National Federation of the Blind of Illinois

pattischang at gmail.com

 

Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

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From ktscott90 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 12:40:58 2016
From: ktscott90 at gmail.com (Keshia Scott)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 07:40:58 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Fwd: [Jobs] Sexual Assault Victims Advocate
In-Reply-To: <auto-000070983245@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <CAH1ggJ3KBWaRPjNMNP_Uexgt8HkpiSiUaOFs9vymk29ZAm2MOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000070983245@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <CAH1ggJ1vbXa+0bbMU=EQnEcWmxK=i-O1dOUGP=23zeMayvugQw@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning,

My name is Keshia; I applied for a job at my local Women's Center. I
have just heard back from them. I have an interview next week.

I am qualified to do this job - and not only that - I am confident
that I can do the job, however, I know that me being blind will give
them (the Women's Center and my clients) some pause. The job requires
me to visit clients (at the hospital), accompany them to court and
other legal proceedings.

If any of you have experience in this area or know of someone who is,
if you could contact me here or - if you prefer - by my email address
ktscott90 at gmail.com that would be great.

Best,
Keshia


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Andrews via Jobs <jobs at nfbnet.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 21:45:45 -0600
Subject: Re: [Jobs] Sexual Assault Victims Advocate
To: Jobs for the Blind <jobs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>

You might want to subscribe to and ask on our blind lawyer, or human
services lists.  They probably have experience in these areas:

to subscribe

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/humanser_nfbnet.org

Dave

At 06:42 PM 11/28/2016, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>My name is Keshia; I applied for a job at my local Women's Center. I
>have just heard back from them. I have an interview next week.
>
>I am confident that I can do the job, however, I know that me being
>blind will give them (the Women's Center and my clients) some pause.
>The job requires me to visit clients (at the hospital or at their
>homes), accompany them to court and other legal proceedings.
>
>If any of you have experience in this area or know of someone who is
>blind, if you could contact me here or - if you prefer - by my email
>address ktscott90 at gmail.com that would be great.
>
>Best,
>Keshia


_______________________________________________
Jobs mailing list
Jobs at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/ktscott90%40gmail.com


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue Nov 29 20:59:23 2016
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. Labarre)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 13:59:23 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] =?utf-8?q?=7BDisarmed=7D_FW=3A_Announcing_the_first_an?=
	=?utf-8?q?nual_CREEC_Fellowship_-_spread_the_word!=C2=A0?=
In-Reply-To: <b535812786cede75737297ac729492037df.20161129202210@mail169.atl101.mcdlv.net>
References: <b535812786cede75737297ac729492037df.20161129202210@mail169.atl101.mcdlv.net>
Message-ID: <006a01d24a83$76b26660$64173320$@labarrelaw.com>

Fyi

 

 

From: Amy Robertson [mailto:fellowship=creeclaw.org at mail169.atl101.mcdlv.net] On Behalf Of Amy Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:22 PM
To: ScottLaBarre <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
Subject: Announcing the first annual CREEC Fellowship - spread the word! 

 







The Civil Rights Education and Enforcement Center announces the first annual CREEC Fellowship.   




  <https://gallery.mailchimp.com/b535812786cede75737297ac7/images/f52268bf-29d5-412c-a9ee-dedcb851cb30.jpg> 



	


In response to the recent election, the Civil Rights Education and Enforcement Center (CREEC), has decided to strengthen our ability to respond to the threat of increased discrimination against Muslims, LGBTQI individuals, people of color, people with disabilities, and other individuals protected by our civil rights laws.  

We are launching the  <http://creeclaw.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b535812786cede75737297ac7&id=0d5c2de0f1&e=29492037df> CREEC Fellowship -- starting with a one-year position for 2017-2018 -- and we need your help to find a civil rights superhero to help us lead the fight.
 
CREEC is a civil rights non-profit that specializes in impact and test case litigation fighting discrimination in all its forms.  Our small staff of three lawyers and two paralegals in Denver and Berkeley prosecutes a large docket of cases nationwide. Our staff includes Bill Lann Lee, former head of the Civil Rights Division of in the U. S. Department of Justice in the Clinton Administration.  We partner with grassroots civil rights organizations and experienced lawyers on high-impact litigation with various strategies to combat discrimination.  The Fellow will work out of our Denver office. 
 
Our 2016 achievements include: obtaining an important and precedent-setting decision in our class actions against Harvard and MIT seeking captioning of their online resources; gaining access for inmates in solitary confinement to outdoor exercise for the first time in 20 years; and a settlement with the city of Denver that requires it to spend tens of millions of dollars to remedy citywide lack of curb ramps.  We are currently pursuing remedies against the state of Maryland for transportation policies that discriminate against African-Americans and against California’s underfunding of its predominantly Latinx Medicaid health care program.    
 
We look forward to sharing our experience and expanding the reach of our work with our 2017 CREEC Fellow.  We request your assistance in getting the word out about our first annual CREEC Fellowship to interested students in the Class of ’17 and other potential applicants.  The Fellowship is described in greater detail at  <http://creeclaw.us8.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b535812786cede75737297ac7&id=8723b3f8cf&e=29492037df> www.creeclaw.org/fellowship. Also, please visit our website,  <http://creeclaw.us8.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b535812786cede75737297ac7&id=9261ba2875&e=29492037df> creeclaw.org for more information about our work.  If you have any questions, you may contact Co-Executive Director Amy Robertson at  <mailto:arobertson at creeclaw.org> arobertson at creeclaw.org. 










 <http://creeclaw.us8.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b535812786cede75737297ac7&id=3695a87618&e=29492037df> 




 <http://creeclaw.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b535812786cede75737297ac7&id=54f5a5b2fc&e=29492037df> 




 <http://creeclaw.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b535812786cede75737297ac7&id=c288232dba&e=29492037df> 

 




Copyright © 2016 Civil Rights Education and Enforcement Center. All rights reserved.

Our mailing address is:
104 Broadway Suite 400 Denver, CO 80203

Want to change how you receive these emails?
You can  <http://creeclaw.us8.list-manage.com/profile?u=b535812786cede75737297ac7&id=19dfada45f&e=29492037df> update your preferences or  <http://creeclaw.us8.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=b535812786cede75737297ac7&id=19dfada45f&e=29492037df&c=3a369ec8ce> unsubscribe from this list 

  <http://creeclaw.us8.list-manage.com/track/open.php?u=b535812786cede75737297ac7&id=3a369ec8ce&e=29492037df> 


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Wed Nov 30 15:02:03 2016
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. Labarre)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 08:02:03 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] {Disarmed} FW: Job Opportunities in the Massachusetts
 Trial Court and Appeals Court - 11/30/16
In-Reply-To: <1126549764473.1116406273370.1470612392.0.270832JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com>
References: <1126549764473.1116406273370.1470612392.0.270832JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com>
Message-ID: <001e01d24b1a$b5cd01b0$21670510$@labarrelaw.com>

Fyi

 

 

From: The Trial Court Human Resources Department [mailto:hr.department at jud.state.ma.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 6:33 AM
To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com
Subject: Job Opportunities in the Massachusetts Trial Court and Appeals Court - 11/30/16

 

  <http://r20.rs6.net/on.jsp?a=1116406273370&r=3&c=128554d0-8a30-11e6-ae05-d4ae528440e0&d=1126549764473&ch=14ae2840-8a30-11e6-ae06-d4ae528440e0&ca=08b9db4f-3133-4f3b-aced-9aa6b6057190&o=https://imgssl.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/s.gif> 




  <http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/spacer.gif> 

 	




 

  <http://files.constantcontact.com/a55dffee301/6395e0f0-32dd-442b-8614-e3ed814e4232.jpg> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Massachusetts Trial Court and the Appeals Court have the following new job opportunities:

*	Research Attorney I - Superior Court Department - closing on 12/02/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNbWy7bE82ePNil2Pm28jKEMrVwBGCk_HAkzFHl_x831LTlycRGrbhKL83J9u-nqKcC3rQuhXKcMmBZ6L2ItMzLNNsql9hn66LOPr7PVsmExD2hEgfyu8OjL_sgnBFVNKF6TGM-H8KYPhjEh2eKa77qXsSg1vpYzC4vFzgGroNqYH8h0ZjhgKGaA2E8vFVwlGE5PXy8_NfU4my0jxX8Rcc1hKL8oRxtA5BEOvZxTHJvEsks4VLHI1aZA=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Administrative Secretary Series - ELMO Unit - Massachusetts Probation Service - closing on 12/04/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsR2PUpGPCIhCBCtmHvIhRFWVPJCVUDKMxaIP5Uka31Fx3-cD_RjXFHjdIReOf2o7Ij0ta9eQVPUFn47uF1r2kzJ1Lo1B_-Nvrw6wGqOxDChTZ5aifQLMXu6LHwFzBV3pTW8XExbJoB-9F6vZro6zn-bXZk-g_bboOC-m5xGpOt5ei22RYEE3tVjWui_MkSGBpC16xW2aQ_sq27jBIXI8ACZ-hLr9WIilhVAtp5Dv98crPv8E6W7gvmGg==&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Case Specialist Series - Western Housing Court - closing on 12/04/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNQ4HsencXH-go5QuZJErsO7Ss5Ou7xcezBi6MOsDsO79trE35vJt4kNa849_6bCxKDr0wSGDASHy5FW32rogyfpUSt0111WNp1lT20Fa0-5bMykxpjAQoz-_iy37LPXHJamm4Ws1f1lycQT01J9ajHBOGGsnlNmJKTr7lMs4jRooYfDD4wfQFYraNsyX-6Aqfpj-765wa5zjHHfwhQA-leinVu8MOuZ0sA==&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Case Specialist - Holyoke District Court - closing on 12/05/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRpIxgsYuE5qu2I855bhOjrgKDIZqn8ZPyoqEO6YSyJ3698jHuspBYfUXn19tsGei2f2GL98Vw90WBBucYmAo92SzZ-m3WJ0dkdGzUbhY3xlYjqBFjF3tamOqhLPxGMHS04g1KKwaGTJoYr-tV-xDftjMGafF0XdD2Msl4OiXd5LsyLZ9AG9TdoAwLvo3lgGYsRroryeuMfEg=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Judicial Assistant - Greenfield District Court - closing on 12/05/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRN56gNx0I2qYujsmQrs0yhS0Fv4wOrx4NHSIV-ALYEsCBdqViZwd13ZSqS6HDA1RvaqqyJIvhwZ-MFunnvXnlqb8JSG2A0RtEEF8Cn9wfS0THyOS0752nb1UbAatYKdXwt8akYeUuvZA2VF6SsuzJQd1EGTZRwqom3pBrSQrtlaQoC4bKLZ2q_YFuzS_D-8S363ejkQhz-zHPTsz5c7JBGQ==&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Administrative Assistant Series - Support Services - Office of Court Management - closing on 12/08/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRlHI4zHsh4N2iPM5UGrBGf1pO6LcRXSGNoHjGnr-Oy0y_i5OzlzRDXfF77JyVwOiF2uRdp64MM_73NPaLtHB5spZOfljT6HuOns2q2gPYhGbXMdQJiW6Q_ly4JxDTDAXjQnMZaxU_H2aoRlYkpfbgVfqM_oj7x1cOh3RjRXFYxqZQJZ0CFm7u7lsVcHgXn6aeONotntuFGaMGRT0Gv1LzqIsh8z4yGxlwrhEhPcmJH7ETB48aSsLeki0yVQ2GiEiI&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Law Clerk - Land Court Department - Land Court Department - closing on 12/14/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRj0VCKFoMfv9MNQz7xbV9DlspDCxQeroo0KtCuUjcLkcZs1zjAzwRcVeyGqX9qw5ikSrsJDt4a52v_B4uToPuQRdg25VXfX1YIDTe746GGLyviITva0DO6ttbC-gGwsZiewzYNQkrv-xQky79RPVNSr0OgiA8-94BE18HrKk17AnhOd4liJsHn-FP23iwrECT7B99H_QBO8UtgU96cIit3uJMZqyaM4Yx&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Case Specialist - Plymouth District Court - closing on 12/12/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsR47LWqt0muyt1pz9ZxYcDDcheG2QE0bix8AfbExeWsKq-CK5scn-4y1irQxL8i0PtVXVd-4IarORet_vOXCsTfScgZKazOi9Rb8wIzT-fFjOU77yWYOrkJiTpAiWLMMHJLPSfpGAmBb6Sbdmb6bs29l65PPh9haq-buWON7vSOOjFAyLeMYirRFYE0lHp6iIHv-qKc6XpAMg=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Case Specialist - Chelsea District Court - closing on 12/12/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsR_0zWesT-zNfS1nHGjW_NY8aC95DM0NaooPt64NUFEg9pK0DLtz9BDcZ3mhH3Cwq2zGjL0kUHshRruGvr311j0HnWqKyX-Iqgxoyh0BEIOV0UBCl6qxeve7vU2Wd0cpuue7w2Lmywu8z7mhJCkXb6p9OpzIemPcHO39HsRid_r4wn-QSzRmDN1kISbq36GVFbiRlkhAmQhDM=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 

Openings in our Facilities Management Department

*	Custodian - Region I - Springfield - Springfield Hall of Justice - closing on 12/11/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRDx3tEURPxaesg_yBuzg0sa1_vgyMcCgSmZeAP9LqPGhXz6YyS11MWo_CCk7jFfpGj6JPVUeSK3HfQVa6goYwMfrDB2yhpuOUF9EHbA4i9D-gZfrJcGJEn0vyzqZ0yRlKieyvQg8b0l26LpqTzk9j2f-1zHAkH34cUldy3ydcBBj4hx0Pr9DjB0k-Scpuig4vsatCvHv9EMXLfZLOR8aiKB9uEHkxMlSGoTjyMKryQQ4=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Custodian - Region II - Worcester - Worcester Court Complex - closing on 12/14/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRROSeSnif4eHFB1YLb7FU81Td-PCJOiBOamxNhBr9ChCcHzL7RmsS3c8KZIXR23QRePkZYnh0NYXsjkDqUNb1oMD4JWEaSEm1f6hKkWk9gE70vGr3fWimrvVW4SJ7Qz8LGSfdPmCZHePdKtKEAd6TYXKp0BtmbjBCgxpjOY0SXQM3bTWDvwVmlJC9P64FMrRgYSjTKjZFpmcwpruP1InDdfiaFdkwK_B3&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Custodian - Region III - Region III - closing on 12/11/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsR0D52QaNo8X-OTAUgB2_8MowD_s9eE6bCwtSt5FZxlVt6A4DeoxzkPu5UOjSk2y2qX5b9k0IzJnVAndo9EEaJaK1M1mTiD1Oh8fR7wps-qy5ivcq31QykIMekBrcLSPUM0FgfRIWYmXHcjWtExZ1wklH-TMvAdEIe7BzqxUJQdRB1bhEO9TVyg9ibMtamJ7z5YPPfRwln6dlEpKdtO7JM2A==&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Custodian - Region V - Region V - closing on 12/11/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsR696GLjLKQ8W5vzZG-dEUL1dLAsTPM3Fa49GxKKQ-9LItgq1w3frA7hkXUCJIHbSkNHCMCeVN_YrLuuI-owQQ80FQWzrYYsnHkoXFpdXiSf3zw3Ebcph4AZqx3AwC5rl45nn7lGUHipheNirxaKBiLtNnGVQ-UMd6EvxK_4WKMIUu6NrEcuOoaXDn0iWA4rE3NVCF_2DINzHX6NDoIAd7og==&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Facilities Supervisor II - Region IV - Fall River - Fall River Complex - closing on 12/14/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRWquXdgoEMeVqhAtnMArVEEVjWi9Or7zzMKhpv5nY50-0Z6oAEqVUzCXJLNPsl0c8FRafPtvAuSh7ikutgYHsjhxSahdbG-KTkCslcgGugBFGA5kDTZU9nunDBvts2uZMWgrF80uAokGc_yw30o9LeNBpj2XBNvcNCR5Hflegpp3p-D3-ngFYSXGkrJoZ3yiejqc6lCZHUc2bI4nPXqtrSvOeHWWvjaqEAaHr6ySLAPtRK8Dk0sanDQ==&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Facilities Supervisor II - Region V - Region V - closing on 12/14/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRwjkGdFtQ_s8y2hq09E4_gI9JgpaFnrFNDQxIBDS2n1CvqEVnPX7WvxdHGORy8FA6maXvgMJnP0IyY0FM5-HlhQadcq20TT0HR7xRGPe0HBIHivGtJOCVOV6Msv4ARsOvwYdKmfKsmvNlvzOTLHb5DTsydC0WVWsyO4oCzWT8Xm6Tm7Iy6bQju4E6EnK1btLR7juSDuM3E_dnz_OiPDNbP2u80pXAGfApd2Z3NebRfFs=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Facilities Supervisor III - Region V - Region V - closing on 12/11/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRhvkCxXfewEzhEToB_-jq4SgQkyzGqDGxJ5ReQgUaqPmxio64r5Th-mxdakLf_ETEhEwcaYlZQKnIGGN26irpacDs0RryD_2v2AhkSGv8SBuGP9QiVUN9yxlp9SX8MvbuusOShlYmJsR0nUU6DslHo-FKmEdujg4VCO_7yhGW1eVTsMXjyZaL-OWlu70Y3LkOUAYgggUmbcHMu8f8uH880Hz3Y7NhwMDSGrBpWhtFYrA=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Facilities Systems Supervisor - Region V - Region V - closing on 12/14/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRw5u3eZffpKDNxQRrfLA-g3su7XLLC7YNsl-18laAbcE6Ava4b5UlHNHlXQJFaCkYx33DMebnvmYnTmGv3yit2WLmZSu8wbHPGL-dNqM4eY3nHOZDsobqWMW-AgJGzOvrznKTY5LzNIIN3S5V5FwyZekE2O6ihZiqk6_pxUVk1icdZl9IrcFH7M4rZd_NtSFhg7BqDwe85ml2mTyB1VAbBn8EpzqJAgcaeQiXqpfad5k=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Senior Maintenance Technician - Region IV - Region IV - closing on 12/11/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRjeYuOzB51mf9YUPEifkXHj5MZTC3vH6zw-J5k6zfudRb3T6FDWO_PpAxwIwFrknT3XzE03nItok_Ltvj4iQS5EIlKH9hOG3DRH0KMYN_aLIoVzcTDamyKDhI6JXSh5Cej50iiu218otrYZYAL3flcCM_bAtdLkcQML87JItP9nM7AYgVk8zZFTt85SfMdRD0xZBkA_yCbrWhmurU3_roE7wHg6XAO_sVY5Irk_OTb2k=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 
*	Senior Maintenance Technician - Region V - Region V - closing on 12/14/16 <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ln92flcT7T6BA-ZGrqdIF4uh-oDUcmvtZqjNzquaEeMM7FxcCcTrNXnhSZeJ8IsRL_tc3YFpibwGDboUo-hlVEau10rV3_ByI7VSwMAFV849q6l69xCRa6gxIHoLBBiar4IEy2KGe6zvgIr904qiqfJYxPh8DEHbLTTU2CihtJvrl03lvgSN4Zqc_GOs0tfc3pMwAUNXpz9qPxw4u8WjwekZhRvlvGO1irTlL3f4v5lCdWiW7MA0J5EBY-1wlQxuoLUzRC3QYriCeS0m4ih7oRwzTuNQDU-juJmyRslP7Y8=&c=QeYKEJ6dnZcEcBiVSP_wQVLH0Uz498jL6jT3JCxGQnkhGFRmyHNmdw==&ch=3G2D9nnNy4rvyfbYap0LOhDYNz6m6Zysi1hPVPyyDijc6TQdKAVYKQ==> 

 

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From deepa.goraya at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:25:13 2016
From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 12:25:13 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Washington Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Summer
 2017 Internship Hiring
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR01MB2815D49BD1559CECD0D92621F08C0@MWHPR01MB2815.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <MWHPR01MB2815D49BD1559CECD0D92621F08C0@MWHPR01MB2815.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <CAKs_uDSCVSED3c7cmto7YcwTxkJFszjD1sVxKU4xZhXRRppObQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Washington Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights and Urban Affairs
is seeking applications for summer internships for each of its
projects. One intern will be hired for the Disability Rights Project.
Please see the attached announcement for more information.

Deepa

Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. | Staff Attorney, Disability Rights Project
Washington Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights and Urban
Affairs<http://www.washlaw.org/>
11 Dupont Circle,NW, Suite 400 | Washington, DC  20036
202-319-1000 X132 | Fax 202-319-1010

This email message is from an attorney and may contain information
that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product. If you
are not the intended recipient of this email, please immediately
advise the sender that this message was inadvertently transmitted to
you and delete this message, along with any attachments. Please note
that if you are an attorney who received this email about a
prospective client, you must maintain the confidences of the
prospective client. Thank you for your cooperation.
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From legal at s.ai  Wed Nov 30 21:30:58 2016
From: legal at s.ai (Sai)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:30:58 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction - Sai
Message-ID: <CAPdaGT5OGXDMQHByoX05qfC-AUkht_-j89xbbpe13SKa5XAGuw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all.

I've just joined the list recently.

To keep personal introductions separate from my post about FOIA…

a) I have functional blindness from extreme light sensitivity.

In low light, with contacts / glasses, I can see just fine. In bright
light, I get searing pain. So basically I'm blind for conditions that
are sunny, fluorescent, or have random headlights in my face, and
sighted otherwise.

I navigate with a guide cane and use Braille for navigational purposes
(signs, elevators, room numbers, etc).

I wrote an essay about my experience: <https://s.ai/essays/blindness>


b) I'm not a lawyer (yet), but I am a litigator.

I've won a Rehab Act / APA case against the TSA, enjoining TSA from
unlawfully withholding, for almost three years, their response to a
formal Rehab Act complaint I filed in early 2013:
<https://s.ai/tsa/legal/rehab_act>

I have pending suits about FOIA and other disability violations — e.g.
<https://s.ai/tsa/legal/foia>. I've also done work on election law,
constructed languages, and other things. My legal resume is at
<https://s.ai/work/legal_resume.pdf>.

I'm intending to start law school in fall 2017.

Last year, I got accepted to 1 high ranking school and waitlisted by
8, so I decided to try again. From what I can tell, I would've gotten
in to most of them if I had just applied earlier. Hopefully it works
out better this time.

Sincerely,
Sai


From legal at s.ai  Wed Nov 30 21:31:05 2016
From: legal at s.ai (Sai)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:31:05 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] =?utf-8?q?FOIA=2C_=C2=A7_508=2C_and_blind_representati?=
 =?utf-8?q?on?=
Message-ID: <CAPdaGT7az=gJ7TMVXUy7=iH2_pEgAfh-JZrm7=Dn9CW0-z1kQw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all.

The NARA / OGIS FOIA advisory committee is currently discussing
agencies' obligations under Rehab Act § 508 and their intersection
with federal FOIA law.


The underlying problem is that agencies have a process for processing
documents, especially redacting, that takes an originally electronic
document like a Word file, PDF, spreadsheet, etc, and turns it into a
rasterized PDF. Some agencies will literally print a file and then
scan it.

Aside from some old documents that were actually made on typewriters
or the like, the accessibility problem is entirely of the agencies'
own making. It violates both the Rehab Act § 508 and FOIA (which
mandates that agencies provide documents in the format requested,
including originals).


A structural issue is that there are, AFAICT, zero people on the
committee with actual personal experience or expertise about the need
for accessible documents. It is a classic example of people deciding
things for an entire swath of disabled people without bothering to
have any representation from that group in the decision.


The October 25, 2016 meeting was about this.

Transcript of the full meeting:

<https://ogis.archives.gov/Assets/October+25+2016+Meeting+Transcript.pdf>

Video of part 2 only:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCD93wCAg8A&index=15&list=PLugwVCjzrJsWX2o94WrDBxASNVEajHJ_L>


There are relevant comments by Alex Howard of Sunlight Foundation at p
115-120, time 1:13:50-1:20:30; and by Michael Ravnitzky at p 120-128,
time 1:20:30-1:31:10.

There are also comments at 1:12:30 by a member of the advisory
committee suggesting that agencies should push the burden of making
documents accessible onto the public and individual requesters.
Personally, I find that rather offensive — especially coming from
someone who's supposed to be on a working group about § 508 best
practices, since it displays a lack of even "disability law 101" level
understanding.


So… if any of you are located in DC, would you be interested in
participating in the OGIS meetings about FOIA and § 508 accessibility?

Would you be interested in collaborating on written comments defending
our right to information in accessible formats?

Sincerely,
Sai