[blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes

Laura Wolk laura.wolk at gmail.com
Tue Dec 18 11:50:25 UTC 2018 

Apologies, Paul. My response was far too harsh toward you. Your suggestion is a good one. But there is a lot that must be left unsaid on a public list and I just meant to communicate that I, and I think most, come here for help when we feel we've exhausted all other resources. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and offer advice.

LAURA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 6:23 AM, Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes. I could. And then I could send emails and reminders and requests
> asking for follow-through and in the meantime face this obstacle every
> day.  Or I could take the time to make one myself.  I figured as a
> first line of defense it was worth asking this large network of blind
> lawyers to see if any of them in fact use NVDA and knows that it can
> or cannot handle this.  if no one knows, then I'll definitely follow
> your suggestion!
> 
>> On 12/18/18, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Years ago I had an issue that a lawfirm I had had a scanner that pumped out
>> things I could not convert and read.  I had better software at home and
>> wanted to test it.  So I got the secretary to photocopy and scan some pages
>> from a judgment and I took that home and tested it.  You could do something
>> similar and ask your IT people to create a document with the amount of track
>> changes on it that you are talking about which has no confidentiality issues
>> attaching to it.
>> 
>> Dr Paul Harpur
>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia
>> (non-practicing)
>> Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt
>> Institute, SU, New York.
>> Senior Lecturer
>> 
>> TC Beirne School of Law
>> The University of Queensland
>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>> 
>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page
>> CRICOS code: 00025B
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Scientia ac Labore
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
>> via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2018 8:55 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>; Steve Jacobson
>> <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes
>> 
>> I've reached out to NVDA folks and heard that in theory it works.  But I
>> don't know if they are working with files as large/with as many edits as I'm
>> talking about.  The problem is that I can't test a work doc on my home PC,
>> and I'll need to get permission to download NVDA at work.  So if anyone
>> could assist with confirming or denying that it's better, I'd appreciate it.
>> I truly believe the NFB has to throw its clout behind this--how can a
>> professional function in any aspect of society in this day without reliable
>> recourse to track changes?  We can't all keep spare machines from 2005
>> around, what with the cost and firms having this funny hang-up about
>> security breaches and all.
>> 
>>> On 12/18/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Steve, many of us reached out to Freedom Scientific about this and the
>>> somewhat improved, albeit imperfect, system that we now have is the
>>> product of that exercise.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Rahul<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table
>>> style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
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>>> /></a></td>
>>>        <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e;
>>> font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
>>> line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
>>> href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
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>>>    </tr>
>>> </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
>>> height="1"></a></div>
>>> 
>>>> On 18/12/2018, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Has anyone verified if NVDA provides more accurate feedback?  Also,
>>>> is anyone in communication with JAWS on this?  I am sorry if this was
>>>> stated earlier.  However, if NVDA handles this aspect correctly, then
>>>> one can definitely lean on JAWS.  Ideally, the problem should be
>>>> described to JAWS and a document exhibiting the problem should be
>>>> attached as well.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
>>>> via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 8:25 PM
>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com
>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>; Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes
>>>> 
>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as
>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than
>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round
>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my
>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great
>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us
>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, <tim at timeldermusic.com>
>>>> <tim at timeldermusic.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in
>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an
>>>> option.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of
>>>>> traffic
>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this
>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions.
>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will
>>>>> announce a
>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate.  This is
>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to
>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect.  now it gives the
>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every
>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying
>>>> that you haven't reviewed.  note that though this isn't a terrible
>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft
>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving
>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying
>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft.  So be
>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the
>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access."
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
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