[blindlaw] track changes, etc.

Mon Dec 24 19:28:50 UTC 2018

Something I forgot to mention in my last reply:

I also appreciate the approach that Apple has taken in developing screen reading software. In my opinion, Apple’s Voiceover is more intuitive to use. Just as the user-interface of operating systems have become more intuitive for easy use by an average person with no programming or IT background, so has Voiceover been developed to allow easy navigation of Mac OS and iOS without any additional knowledge or effort compared to the sighted user. 

I find, when using JAWS and other Windows based screen readers, that I need to remember a copious number of commands and have knowledge of things like what a frame is in HTML—something a sighted user would never need to know. 

To give an example of how Voiceover seems more intuitive to me, Voiceover seems to have more comprehensive navigation using arrow keys and minimal commands compared to how simply reading text in JAAWS requires one to remember several different functions. Also, JAWS seems to have no menu to easily access a command shortcut that you cannot remember. Voiceover has an easy to use help menus built into the screen reader where the user can easily search for or navigate to a command they have forgotten or don’t know. 

I would add, Google’s ChromeVox screen reader seems to have a similar navigation style as Apple’s Voiceover and also doesn’t require the knowledge of many commands for easy navigation. I find ChromeVox also more intuitive than JAWS. 

I hope my thoughts are coming across clearly as I’m having trouble expressing my thoughts in describing the differences between the JAWS/NVDA interface and the VoiceOver/ChromeVox interface. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 24, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Elizabeth Rene <rene0373 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Cody and all,
> Yes indeed, when was the last time FS asked you to rate its products and services?
> When was the last time it asked our employers to do that?
> When was the last time it offered or submitted to accountability and responsiveness measures as a contractual term when setting up agreements with state and federal agencies?
> It’s gotten altogether too big for its britches.
> It is serving itself rather than its market.
> “ look what we’re doing for those poor blind people!“ they say. “ aren’t we wonderful?”
> They’ve come to believe their own press.
> And why shouldn’t the public believe it too, because we are a discreet market.
> But why should we keep on being discreet? We’re blind people, not Martians. More importantly, we are blind lawyers, judges, professors, law students, and community leaders of every sort. My state has a blind Lieutenant Governor.
> I say let’s take a playbook from the LGBTQ movement and come out of the cubicle.
> It’s time to make some noise in the marketplace and maybe take some legal action in tandem with our employers if the providers of necessary accommodations aren’t fulfilling their contractual obligations to supply technology fit for its intended purpose.
> We’re not in the 1980s anymore, when access technology was new.
> Cody, to be specific about Apple versus JAWS, maybe there’s a third player to consider.
> A couple of years ago, I ran into a major conflict between MS Word and VoiceOver. I called Microsoft and found them surprisingly responsive. After communicating directly with their accessibility IT people, Microsoft came through and solved the compatibility problem. Granted, with each update to Office 365 and Apple’s iOS, new glitches can arise. But Microsoft seems to want to be far more accessible than it used to be decades ago. If Microsoft products are still the industry standard in the workplace, maybe we blind professionals should make Microsoft our ally and become less dependent on JAWS.
> Cheers,
> Elizabeth 
> 
> Elizabeth M René 
> Attorney at Law 
> WSBA #10710 
> KCBA #21824
> rene0373 at gmail.com 
> 
> On Dec 24, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Cody J. Davis <cjdavis9193 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I’ve kept an eye on this thread and have found it quite interesting. On the topic of track changes, I have avoided using it because I could never figure out an efficient way to use it, either with JAWS or Voiceover. It sounds like Voiceover handles track changes in Word pretty well, so I’ll have to look into how that is done. 
> 
> 
> With the general access issues presented by JAWS and FS, I have always preferred apple products, including iPhone, iPad Pro, and Mac. I have found that Apple developers are more responsive than FS when it comes to improving their screen readers and other assistive technologies. The problem is, JAWS and MIcrosoft Windows are the predominate platforms in the workplace. For this reason, I have, with great reluctance, used JAWS at work. 
> 
> 
> FS, in my opinion, has no motivation to improve it’s product like JAWS because they have a sort of monopoly. They are well aware that JAWS is the leading screen reader in the workplace, so they have no reason to improve their products or be more responsive to complaints. Who else will blind users turn to?
> 
> NVDA is an option, but it doesn’t seem to be a popular one. I think Apple’s voiceover is the foremost competitor with JAWS. But, until Apple machines become more pro inmate in the office, FS and JAWS will have too strong of a foothold to be threatened by Apple’s competing screen reader. 
> 
> Best,
> Cody Davis
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 12:03 PM, Elizabeth Rene via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Listmates,
>> This all seems like an access to justice issue to me. OK, access to productivity. Same thing, really, because it means access to equal employment opportunity and professional advancement.
>> Maybe pressure needs to be brought to bear on a larger stage.
>> Maybe articles need to be written to the leading technological journals that address accessibility to let them know that the market is changing and that the expectations of customers aren’t being kept up with by the developers who were supposed to be opening doors for them. Maybe even magazines like Geekwire aught to be encouraged to take up the issue. Because I don’t think it’s just blind people who are finding them selves captive to unresponsive technology. As devices are expected to do more and more things, some apps may be becoming less and less robust.
>> When I go to the App Store in Apple, I always read the reviews before I buy a new app. Maybe we ought to start writing reviews of JAWS, etc., on the Internet. We could use Yelp, write posts to LinkedIn, or claim any forum that might get Freedom Scientific’s attention. If FS doesn’t step up to the plate, maybe its competitors will.
>> Thanks,
>> Elizabeth 
>> 
>> Elizabeth M René 
>> Attorney at Law 
>> WSBA #10710 
>> KCBA #21824
>> rene0373 at gmail.com
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