From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Mon Apr 1 13:47:50 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 09:47:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] slightly off-topic: Braille display to borrow? In-Reply-To: <5c9e3947.1c69fb81.df955.f834SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <5c9e3947.1c69fb81.df955.f834SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Even more off-topic: I'm frankly impressed that you were able to make it through law school while primarily (exclusively?) using Braille. I'm not sure what my reading speed is--though I know I'm not extremely slow--but I think it would have taken me forever to read all of the material necessary. On 3/29/19, daniellemorones via BlindLaw wrote: > I have a blue focus 14 Bluetooth refreshable Braille display > -------- Original message --------From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Date: 3/28/19 6:24 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Blind Law > Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: [blindlaw] slightly off-topic: Braille display to borrow? Hi all,My > very old Focus 40 classic has suddenly stopped working.  I have asuper > important brief due next week, and Braille is my go-to forproofing and > editing.  Though I am getting more comfortable using Jawssound schemes, I am > a Braille reader through and through.  If anyonehas a Braille display they > either don't use or could part withtemporarily while I purchase a new one, > please contact me off-list.  Iwill pay for shipping, insurance, > etc.Thanks!On 3/27/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw > wrote:> Understood. I am beginning to suspect that it is an issue with the > browser,> so since I am due for a new laptop with updated firm image, I can > switch> over to JAWS 2019 and the latest version of Chrome. I am hoping > these> updates will do the trick.>> -----Original Message-----> From: > BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian Unitt> via > BlindLaw> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 5:45 PM> To: Blind Law Mailing > List> Cc: Brian Unitt> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Losing Place on Web Page>> In > my previous response to this thread, I failed to mention that I use the> > text.westlaw.com version of the Westlaw site, and maybe that is why I don’t> > have the problem of losing my place on the page. Hope that might help.>> > Brian> Brian C. Unitt> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law> The State Bar > of California Board of Legal Specialization>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt> A > Professional Corporation> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103> Riverside, CA > 92501> Tel: 951-682-7030> Fax: 951-684-8061> > www.holsteinlaw.com> > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via> BlindLaw> > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 4:45 PM> To: Blind Law Mailing List > > Cc: Michal Nowicki > Subject: > Re: [blindlaw] Losing Place on Web Page>> I experience this issue from time > to time. I set JAWS placemarkers to be> safe.>> As for reading cases on > Westlaw, I prefer to read them on the website,> because I can jump quickly > between footnotes and text most easily that way> thanks to the hyperlinks.>> > Michal>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10>> From: Brian Unitt via BlindLaw> > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:56 PM> To: Blind Law Mailing List> Cc: Brian > Unitt> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Losing Place on Web Page>> Yes, Chrome now > works with JAWS. It used to be terrible, but now it is my> default > browser.>> Brian> Brian C. Unitt> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law> The > State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization>> Holstein, Taylor and > Unitt> A Professional Corporation> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103> Riverside, > CA 92501> Tel: 951-682-7030> Fax: 951-684-8061> > www.holsteinlaw.com> > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com>> From: BlindLaw> > On> > Behalf Of Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 8:52 > PM> To: Blind Law Mailing List> > > Cc: Singh, Nandini > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Losing > Place on Web Page>> I am using IE 11 and JAWS 2018. Does JAWS now work with > Chrome?>> -----Original Message-----> From: BlindLaw > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian Unitt> via BlindLaw> > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 7:40 PM> To: Blind Law Mailing List> Cc: > Brian Unitt> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Losing Place on Web Page>> What browser > are you using? I am using chrome with the latest update for> JAWS 2019, and > I am not experiencing that problem.> Brian>> Sent from my iPhone>> On Mar > 21, 2019, at 3:48 PM, Jen Barrow via BlindLaw> > >> > wrote:>> Hi Nikki,>> Yes, I experience the same problem as you described. > It’s very frustrating> when I’m looking at a case on Westlaw and I switch > over to word to write> some notes, and then the JAWS focus is back at the > top when I return to IE.> I also started to notice this rather recently… But > I can’t remember when.>> Jen>>> Sent from my iPhone>> *This message may > contain legally privileged or confidential information. If> you are not the > intended recipient, please notify me immediately and delete> all copies of > this message.>>> On Mar 21, 2019, at 5:56 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw>> > >>> > wrote:>>>> I guess I can place a bookmark where the main content begins. I > am often>> jumping back and forth between a case and a wordprocessor, so > having>> multiple bookmarks may be impractical as I continue reading through > the>> case.>>>> -----Original Message----->> From: BlindLaw > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott>> Greenblatt via > BlindLaw>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 5:52 PM>> To: Blind Law Mailing > List>> Cc: Scott Greenblatt>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Losing Place on Web > Page>>>> I’m not sure why you’re having this problem but as a JAWS user I > can give>> you one solution that might help. You can put a temporary > bookmark or>> placeholder whatever it’s called into the webpage before you > switch out by>> using a controlled windows K command. This way if you lose > your focus on>> the webpage when you go back into that window all you have > to do is hit>> the letter K and it will bring you back to where you belong. > I hope this>> helps you and fixes the problem until JAWS starts behaving the > way it>> should>>>> Sincerely,>> Scott Greenblatt Esq.>> 914-274f-0232>> > sgreenblatt76 at gmail.com>> > Sent from my iPhone>>>>> On Mar 21, 2019, at 5:20 PM, Singh, Nandini via > BlindLaw>>> > >>>> > wrote:>>>>>> I am wondering if others are experiencing this while conducting > work>>> online. I am first on a given web page, maybe Westlaw, a treatise, > or>>> whatever else. I then switch over to email or to a Word document. When > I>>> bring my browser back into focus, JAWS appears to have lost its place > on>>> the web page, and I am right back at the top of the page. Needless > to>>> say, this is incredibly annoying, as I have to return to where I left > off>>> my work. I guess I could always copy and paste the contents of the > web>>> page to a separate Word document, which is my clumsy solution in > the>>> meantime, but I am just puzzled why JAWS cannot seem to remember > where it>>> was situated on the web page. I am not sure what is going on, so > I am not>>> sure how to go about resolving this. However, this did not > happen before.>>> I use JAWS 2018, IE 11 browser, and Windows 10, though I > am not>>> remembering exactly which version of 10 the firm installed on my > laptop.>>> any ideas would be appreciated.>>>>>> Regards,>>> Nikki>>>>>>>>> > Nandini Singh>>>>>> Covington & Burling LLP>>> One CityCenter, 850 Tenth > Street, NW>>> Washington, DC 20001-4956>>> T +1 202 662 5113 |>>> > nsingh at cov.com>>> > www.cov.com>>>>>> > This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is>>> > confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended>>> > recipient, please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this>>> > message has been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail>>> > from your system. Thank you for your cooperation.>>>>>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________>>> BlindLaw mailing list>>> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for>>> BlindLaw:>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sgreenblatt76%40gmail.com>>>> > _______________________________________________>> BlindLaw mailing list>> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for>> BlindLaw:>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com>> > _______________________________________________>> BlindLaw mailing list>> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for>> BlindLaw:>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jlynnbarrow%40gmail.com>> > _______________________________________________> BlindLaw mailing list> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for> BlindLaw:> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com> > ________________________________> > _______________________________________________> BlindLaw mailing list> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for> BlindLaw:> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com> > _______________________________________________> BlindLaw mailing list> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for> BlindLaw:> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com>> > ________________________________> > _______________________________________________> BlindLaw mailing list> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for> BlindLaw:> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com>> > _______________________________________________> BlindLaw mailing list> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info for> BlindLaw:> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com>> > ________________________________> > _______________________________________________> BlindLaw mailing list> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> > BlindLaw:> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com> > _______________________________________________> BlindLaw mailing list> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for> > BlindLaw:> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com>_______________________________________________BlindLaw > mailing > listBlindLaw at nfbnet.orghttp://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.orgTo > unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw:http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daniellemorones%40icloud.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Apr 1 19:17:00 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 19:17:00 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security benefits representation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is a professional organization of Social Security claimant representatives that has resources that may be of use to you. I believe the organization's website isnosscr.org. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott Greenblatt via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 4:45 PM To: BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Scott Greenblatt Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security benefits representation I am a new attorney thinking of throwing my hat into this area of representation and I am hoping that members on this list can help give me some guidance. Please tell me how I might get started educating myself on carrying out this type of representation. Where can I go to study up on the process? Are the application documents in accessible format for me to help clients fill out? If not, what suggestions do you have to get an accessible copy of these application documents? Can you please explain to me what goes into developing this type of case and what documentation must be gathered to prove someone’s disability? I know that even with a lawyer’s help that very few cases will receive benefits after the initial application, so what goes into the appellate process of these cases? If I’ve done my due diligence and gathered all the necessary documentation to submit with the initial application is there nothing more to do then get it before an administrative law judge to argue the case? I would also like to know how the practitioners on this list charge for these types of services. All advice will be greatly appreciated as I dearly need some mentoring help. Sincerely, Scott Greenblatt Esq. 914-274f-0232 sgreenblatt76 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From ttomasi at driowa.org Mon Apr 1 19:25:36 2019 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 19:25:36 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security benefits representation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Correct, the National Organization of Social Security Claimants' Representatives can be found at www.nosscr.org Tai Tomasi, J.D. Pronouns: she/her/hers Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502 x15; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org http://driowa.org/ Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, April 01, 2019 2:17 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Social Security benefits representation There is a professional organization of Social Security claimant representatives that has resources that may be of use to you. I believe the organization's website isnosscr.org. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott Greenblatt via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 4:45 PM To: BlindLaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Scott Greenblatt Subject: [blindlaw] Social Security benefits representation I am a new attorney thinking of throwing my hat into this area of representation and I am hoping that members on this list can help give me some guidance. Please tell me how I might get started educating myself on carrying out this type of representation. Where can I go to study up on the process? Are the application documents in accessible format for me to help clients fill out? If not, what suggestions do you have to get an accessible copy of these application documents? Can you please explain to me what goes into developing this type of case and what documentation must be gathered to prove someone’s disability? I know that even with a lawyer’s help that very few cases will receive benefits after the initial application, so what goes into the appellate process of these cases? If I’ve done my due diligence and gathered all the necessary documentation to submit with the initial application is there nothing more to do then get it before an administrative law judge to argue the case? I would also like to know how the practitioners on this list charge for these types of services. All advice will be greatly appreciated as I dearly need some mentoring help. Sincerely, Scott Greenblatt Esq. 914-274f-0232 sgreenblatt76 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Mon Apr 1 22:16:05 2019 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 17:16:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards Message-ID: Hello Colleagues, I know some of you have Braille business cards. How did you get these cards? Are there any places from which Braille business cards can be ordered, or did you have to braille them yourselves? I’m asking because I would like to bring Braille business cards to convention. Best, Michal Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From dwiniecki at handid.org Mon Apr 1 22:41:08 2019 From: dwiniecki at handid.org (Donald Winiecki) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 16:41:08 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards In-Reply-To: <5ca28df3.1c69fb81.527a2.91a7SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <5ca28df3.1c69fb81.527a2.91a7SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: There are companies that do braille business cards. The following URL will take you to the website of a company that does this. (I am not associated with the company at the URL provided below, and cannot attest to the quality of their work.) http://www.access-usa.com/Services/biz_card.htm I am a certified braille transcriber and can do this sort of thing also. I usually limit the braille to Name, Phone number, and E-mail. For 100 cards I will charge $50. You will ship the printed cards to me and I will braille them, and pay shipping to return them. Larger lots get progressively less expensive per unit. I work with individual cards one at a time -- brailling cards that have already been printed. My price is a bit more expensive than outfits that can print and braille the cards in large sheets and then cut them into pieces; their process is cheaper because they can use an embosser to do these large sheets before cutting out the final cards. _don ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don Winiecki Handid Media Systems • a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dwiniecki at handid.org http://handid.org 208 571 8096 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~d On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 4:17 PM Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > Hello Colleagues, > > I know some of you have Braille business cards. How did you get these > cards? Are there any places from which Braille business cards can be > ordered, or did you have to braille them yourselves? I’m asking because I > would like to bring Braille business cards to convention. > > Best, > > Michal > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwiniecki%40handid.org > From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Mon Apr 1 22:52:35 2019 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 16:52:35 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards Message-ID: <022501d4e8dd$99a2b260$cce81720$@com> Ok, Michal, I'm not a great help, I've heard of a device, I don't recall its name or its maker/seller, that can be purchased for embossing Braille on a business card. I believe you are limited to about four lines of text; you'd have to send whatever you want on your card off to the maker/seller of the device for programming and correct alignment. Once done, the device will be shipped off to you; all you need do is slide in your card, press a lever and presto, the text goes on your card. Again, I don't recall the name of the device, nor do I recall its seller/maker, but I'll go see what I can hunt down and report back if I succeed in finding the info. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Mon Apr 1 22:57:40 2019 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 16:57:40 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards Message-ID: <022601d4e8de$4f135dc0$ed3a1940$@com> Michal, this has got to be one of my lucky days--yikes, even on April 1st? Right on; the device I was talking about in my last post is called the Impressor. It comes from American Printing House for the Blind. You can read more about it at this site: http://shop.aph.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_Impressor:%20Braille%2 0Business%20Card%20Embosser_38378918P_10001_11051 I hope the foregoing is more helpful; have a blissful, fun-filled day! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Mon Apr 1 23:39:46 2019 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 18:39:46 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards In-Reply-To: <022601d4e8de$4f135dc0$ed3a1940$@com> References: <022601d4e8de$4f135dc0$ed3a1940$@com> Message-ID: Olusegun, Thank you for telling me about the Impressor. I will read up on it to determine whether it meets my needs. Best, Michal Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, April 1, 2019 5:58 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards Michal, this has got to be one of my lucky days--yikes, even on April 1st? Right on; the device I was talking about in my last post is called the Impressor. It comes from American Printing House for the Blind. You can read more about it at this site: http://shop.aph.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_Impressor:%20Braille%2 0Business%20Card%20Embosser_38378918P_10001_11051 I hope the foregoing is more helpful; have a blissful, fun-filled day! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From sanho817 at gmail.com Tue Apr 2 00:21:34 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 19:21:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards In-Reply-To: References: <5ca28df3.1c69fb81.527a2.91a7SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2AEC5ACA-69BE-473F-93DE-B57BAEC3B29E@gmail.com> All, I'd have to check on where to get them, but you can buy what I've heard referred to as "embossing plates" for $80. We had them at an agency I used to work for. It was effectively a braille stamp that you could just close onto the business card, then open it, and suddenly your business card was brailled. I'll try to find out where and send the information along. Sanho > On Apr 1, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Donald Winiecki via BlindLaw wrote: > > There are companies that do braille business cards. The following URL will > take you to the website of a company that does this. (I am not associated > with the company at the URL provided below, and cannot attest to the > quality of their work.) > > http://www.access-usa.com/Services/biz_card.htm > > I am a certified braille transcriber and can do this sort of thing also. I > usually limit the braille to Name, Phone number, and E-mail. > > For 100 cards I will charge $50. You will ship the printed cards to me and > I will braille them, and pay shipping to return them. Larger lots get > progressively less expensive per unit. > > I work with individual cards one at a time -- brailling cards that have > already been printed. My price is a bit more expensive than outfits that > can print and braille the cards in large sheets and then cut them into > pieces; their process is cheaper because they can use an embosser to do > these large sheets before cutting out the final cards. > > _don > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Don Winiecki > Handid Media Systems • a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization > dwiniecki at handid.org > http://handid.org > 208 571 8096 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~d > > > On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 4:17 PM Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > >> Hello Colleagues, >> >> I know some of you have Braille business cards. How did you get these >> cards? Are there any places from which Braille business cards can be >> ordered, or did you have to braille them yourselves? I’m asking because I >> would like to bring Braille business cards to convention. >> >> Best, >> >> Michal >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwiniecki%40handid.org >> > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com From sanho817 at gmail.com Tue Apr 2 00:23:12 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 19:23:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards In-Reply-To: <022601d4e8de$4f135dc0$ed3a1940$@com> References: <022601d4e8de$4f135dc0$ed3a1940$@com> Message-ID: <14FB5B4F-4ED6-4104-9E6C-7C1C854408F4@gmail.com> Ah, yes. This. Thank you! Sanho > On Apr 1, 2019, at 5:57 PM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw wrote: > > Michal, this has got to be one of my lucky days--yikes, even on April 1st? > > Right on; the device I was talking about in my last post is called the > Impressor. It comes from American Printing House for the Blind. You can > read more about it at this site: > > http://shop.aph.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_Impressor:%20Braille%2 > 0Business%20Card%20Embosser_38378918P_10001_11051 > > I hope the foregoing is more helpful; have a blissful, fun-filled day! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Tue Apr 2 00:30:19 2019 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (Ray Wayne) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 20:30:19 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards In-Reply-To: <20190401234059.ZKJA4708.dnvrco-fep19.email.rr.com@dnvrco-cmimta16> References: <022601d4e8de$4f135dc0$ed3a1940$@com> <20190401234059.ZKJA4708.dnvrco-fep19.email.rr.com@dnvrco-cmimta16> Message-ID: <6EAD14044C0241C58F8C35FA30E150E4@RayWaynePC> Brown Goldstein and Levy has them. So does Disability Rights Advocates. But I do not know or recall what company prepared them. They include name, phone number, and email. Any current or former employees of either BGL or DRA on this list? Thanks. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw" To: ; "Blind Law Mailing List" Cc: "Michal Nowicki" Sent: Monday, April 01, 2019 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards Olusegun, Thank you for telling me about the Impressor. I will read up on it to determine whether it meets my needs. Best, Michal Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, April 1, 2019 5:58 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards Michal, this has got to be one of my lucky days--yikes, even on April 1st? Right on; the device I was talking about in my last post is called the Impressor. It comes from American Printing House for the Blind. You can read more about it at this site: http://shop.aph.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_Impressor:%20Braille%2 0Business%20Card%20Embosser_38378918P_10001_11051 I hope the foregoing is more helpful; have a blissful, fun-filled day! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From PChang at nfb.org Tue Apr 2 11:56:35 2019 From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 11:56:35 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards In-Reply-To: <6EAD14044C0241C58F8C35FA30E150E4@RayWaynePC> References: <022601d4e8de$4f135dc0$ed3a1940$@com> <20190401234059.ZKJA4708.dnvrco-fep19.email.rr.com@dnvrco-cmimta16> <6EAD14044C0241C58F8C35FA30E150E4@RayWaynePC> Message-ID: NFB also uses them. I am copying Beth Braun who probably knows where we get them from. Hope it is helpful. Patti Chang Director of Outreach 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org                                   The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, April 1, 2019 7:30 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Ray Wayne Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards Brown Goldstein and Levy has them. So does Disability Rights Advocates. But I do not know or recall what company prepared them. They include name, phone number, and email. Any current or former employees of either BGL or DRA on this list? Thanks. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw" To: ; "Blind Law Mailing List" Cc: "Michal Nowicki" Sent: Monday, April 01, 2019 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards Olusegun, Thank you for telling me about the Impressor. I will read up on it to determine whether it meets my needs. Best, Michal Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, April 1, 2019 5:58 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards Michal, this has got to be one of my lucky days--yikes, even on April 1st? Right on; the device I was talking about in my last post is called the Impressor. It comes from American Printing House for the Blind. You can read more about it at this site: http://shop.aph.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_Impressor:%20Braille%2 0Business%20Card%20Embosser_38378918P_10001_11051 I hope the foregoing is more helpful; have a blissful, fun-filled day! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4 at icloud.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang at nfb.org Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Tue Apr 2 13:44:46 2019 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (rjaquiss) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:44:46 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards In-Reply-To: References: <022601d4e8de$4f135dc0$ed3a1940$@com> <20190401234059.ZKJA4708.dnvrco-fep19.email.rr.com@dnvrco-cmimta16> <6EAD14044C0241C58F8C35FA30E150E4@RayWaynePC> Message-ID: <001901d4e95a$3c71dad0$b5559070$@earthlink.net> Hello: American Thermoform Corp. uses Access Usa. Their website is: www.access-usa.com Access USA brailles preprinted cards. I understand they can handle double sized cards. Regards, Robert From sbg at sbgaal.com Tue Apr 2 19:08:12 2019 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 14:08:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Signal iOS App In-Reply-To: References: <3a2d9a85f2204bea9a87c620c3af26d4@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> <4080117E-86C6-4E87-8928-D9042D1B4F52@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245E0BD5@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <18605DBD-F1B0-4A1A-B6C9-727B6FC6595F@fireantproductions.com> <0c9f5bb5891d4e34ba7dcddb0879e314@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: <01d001d4e987$6b980a50$42c81ef0$@sbgaal.com> Meeting via phone is fine; I should have time this afternoon around 4 central Sincerely, Shannon Brady Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, Texas 79401 Office: (806) 763-3999 Mobile: (806) 781-9296 Fax: (806) 749-3752 E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon via BlindLaw Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2019 3:48 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aaron Cannon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Signal iOS App Sorry, I'm confused. Are you requesting to meet via phone, or did you intend to send this email to someone else? Aaron On 3/31/19, Sybren Hoekstra via BlindLaw wrote: > Today is not great. Could we talk sometime tomorrow evening? Maybe around > 730 Eastern time? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 31, 2019, at 08:57, Aaron Cannon via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Smart folks. >> >> Aaron >> >> -- >> This message was sent from a mobile device >> >> >>> On Mar 30, 2019, at 20:32, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for this explanation. I did not realize that Whisper owned Signal. >>> >>> For additional context, we have been requested to download Signal onto >>> our phones by a client, which is a sovereign nation, so I can understand >>> the preference for Signal over What's App. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aaron >>> Cannon via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2019 8:31 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Aaron Cannon >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Signal iOS App >>> >>> It's complicated. What's App uses the Signal protocol under the hood, or >>> at least they claim to, so in that regard, they should have about the >>> same security. That being said, Facebook owns What's App, and Whisper >>> Communications owns Signal. When it comes to track records of privacy and >>> security, Facebook does not win. In addition, Signal is open source, so >>> there claims about security, can, and have been verified. What's App is >>> closed source, so you have to take Facebooks word for it. >>> >>> For the above reasons, I prefer Signal, but I would not be too worried if >>> I had to use What's App. >>> >>> Aaron >>> >>> -- >>> This message was sent from a mobile device >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 30, 2019, at 11:24, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Is it more secure/better than Whats App? >>>> >>>>> On 3/28/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> This is correct. I don’t have any experience with the desktop version, >>>>> but >>>>> I’ve used the mobile version for calls and texts, and it’s quite >>>>> accessible. >>>>> The company also seems to be at least somewhat committed to maintaining >>>>> accessibility. In the notes for a recent update to the mobile app, they >>>>> mentioned that they had made improvements for Voiceover users (sorry, I >>>>> don’t remember exactly how the app was improved). >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>> Loeb and Loeb, LLP >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com8 >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>> files >>>>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>>>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached >>>>> to >>>>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>> destroy >>>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving >>>>> in >>>>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Singh, >>>>> Nandini via >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:02 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Singh, Nandini >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Signal iOS App >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have not used it yet, but my understanding is that it is an >>>>> application to >>>>> facilitate encrypted communication, both calls and text messaging. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Howard >>>>> Adelsberg via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 10:59 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Howard Adelsberg >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Signal iOS App >>>>> >>>>> What is it? >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone happen to know how accessible the encrypted messaging app >>>>>> Signal is for iPhone? I shall find out soon enough when I install it >>>>>> this >>>>>> weekend, but I thought I would still ask here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Nikki >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Nandini Singh >>>>>> >>>>>> Covington & Burling LLP >>>>>> One CityCenter, 850 Tenth Street, NW >>>>>> Washington, DC 20001-4956 >>>>>> T +1 202 662 5113 | nsingh at cov.com >>>>>> www.cov.com >>>>>> >>>>>> This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is >>>>>> confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>>> recipient, >>>>>> please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message >>>>>> has >>>>>> been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your >>>>>> system. Thank you for your cooperation. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howard.adelsberg%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cannona%40fireantproductions.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cannona%40fireantproductions.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cannona%40fireantproductions.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From PChang at nfb.org Wed Apr 3 12:08:50 2019 From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2019 12:08:50 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille business cards Message-ID: At our national center we use: Envision Contact: Jamie Musson jamie.musson at envisionus.com (316) 425-7250 Let me know if you need anything further. Warmly, Suzanne I saw your message about business cards but can't seem to copy this information into the other message. Can you send this to whoever needs it? Thanks, Beth From: Shaffer, Suzanne Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 9:19 AM To: Braun, Beth > Cc: State President, Illinois > Subject: RE: business cards Certainly! Denise, we use: Envision Contact: Jamie Musson jamie.musson at envisionus.com (316) 425-7250 Let me know if you need anything further. Warmly, Suzanne Patti Chang Director of Outreach 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org [National Federation of the Blind] [Facebook] [Twitter] [Youtube] The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want. Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Apr 3 15:27:09 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2019 15:27:09 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Department of education Office for Civil Rights General Attorney, GS-0905-15, Vacancy Announcement (OCR-HQ-2019-0013) Message-ID: Please see below USAJOBS link for vacancy announcement for a General Attorney, GS-0905-15, position(s) within OCR/HQs. The announcement opened on 4/03/2019 and closes on 4/17/2019. ANNOUNCEMENT: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/529441500 From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Wed Apr 3 18:34:20 2019 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michael Nowicki) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2019 13:34:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille business cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34302E67-486E-4E9E-8523-4434EFA15754@icloud.com> Thank you, Patti. This is very helpful. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 3, 2019, at 7:08 AM, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw wrote: > > At our national center we use: > Envision > Contact: Jamie Musson > jamie.musson at envisionus.com > (316) 425-7250 > > Let me know if you need anything further. > > Warmly, > Suzanne > I saw your message about business cards but can't seem to copy this information into the other message. Can you send this to whoever needs it? > > Thanks, Beth > > From: Shaffer, Suzanne > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 9:19 AM > To: Braun, Beth > > Cc: State President, Illinois > > Subject: RE: business cards > > Certainly! > > Denise, we use: > > Envision > Contact: Jamie Musson > jamie.musson at envisionus.com > (316) 425-7250 > > Let me know if you need anything further. > > Warmly, > Suzanne > > > > > > > Patti Chang > Director of Outreach > 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 > (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org > > > [National Federation of the Blind] > > [Facebook] [Twitter] [Youtube] > > The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want. > > Disclaimer > > The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Apr 5 14:03:32 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 08:03:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000401d4ebb8$5ad93080$108b9180$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 5:50 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. The Department of Justice office places a high value on diversity of experiences and perspectives and encourages applications from all qualified men and women from all ethnic and racial backgrounds, veterans, LGBT individuals, and persons with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. Manage Your Email: If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. If you would like to update your contact information, please submit the following information: SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: Attorney Vacancies & Volunteer Legal Internships Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title International Computer Hacking and Intellectual Property Attorney Advisor, Senegal State Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer-Fall 2019 State Colorado Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Virginia Job Title Assistant United States Attorney (Criminal Division) State Virginia Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Florida Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Florida Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer State New York Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Attorney Advisor, Counterterrorism State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Resident Legal Advisor, Malta State Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Fall 2019 State Pennsylvania Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Florida Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Florida Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Florida Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Florida Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Texas Job Title Attorney State Texas Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Florida Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Florida Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Virginia Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Virginia Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization Civil Division (CIV) Job Title Unpaid Law Student Volunteer, Academic Year- T-CSTL/Bivens State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization Civil Division (CIV) Job Title Unpaid Law Student Volunteer, Summer- T-CSTL/Bivens State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Virginia Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Virginia Posted/ Updated April 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Missouri Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Missouri Posted/ Updated April 3, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Job Title Attorney Advisor State Maryland Posted/ Updated April 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Pennsylvania Job Title Assistant United States Attorney - Civil State Pennsylvania Posted/ Updated April 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Nebraska Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Nebraska Posted/ Updated April 3, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Assistant United States Trustee (AUST) State California Posted/ Updated April 2, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Texas Job Title Law Student Intern -- Fall Semester 2019 State Texas Posted/ Updated April 2, 2019 Hiring Organization Civil Division (CIV) Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Delaware Posted/ Updated April 2, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Delaware Posted/ Updated April 2, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Assistant United States Trustee (AUST) State California Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization United States Attorney's Office (USAO) Job Title Assistant U.S. Attorney - Criminal Division State California Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of California Job Title Assistant U.S. Attorney - Civil Division State California Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of California Job Title Assistant U.S. Attorney (AUSA) - Appellate State California Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Illinois Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Illinois Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Illinois Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Illinois Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization Justice Management Division (JMD) Job Title Attorney Advisor - GS 14/15 State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Iowa Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Iowa Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of the Inspector General (OIG) Job Title Attorney Advisor State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) Job Title Attorney State Virginia Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of North Carolina Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State North Carolina Posted/ Updated April 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Texas Job Title Attorney State Texas Posted/ Updated March 29, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Nevada Job Title Law Student Volunteer State Nevada Posted/ Updated March 29, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Trial Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated March 29, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Special Master State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated March 29, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Deputy Chief State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated March 29, 2019 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Fri Apr 5 18:00:24 2019 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 13:00:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Contract Wrangler Accessibility Message-ID: Hello Listmates, My firm is looking into using Contract Wrangler, a web-based contract management platform, to keep track of a large number of commercial agreements for a client. Have any of you ever used this tool with a screen reader? If so, is it accessible? It would be helpful to know, as I will likely be expected to use it. Best, Michal Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Apr 5 20:19:53 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 14:19:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: New Career Opportunity in the Trial Court - April 5, 2019 In-Reply-To: <1132443616360.1116406273370.1470612392.0.451431JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com> References: <1132443616360.1116406273370.1470612392.0.451431JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com> Message-ID: <028e01d4ebec$ee0c4de0$ca24e9a0$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: Trial Court Communications Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 12:32 PM To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com Subject: New Career Opportunity in the Trial Court - April 5, 2019 NEW CAREER OPPORTUNITIES OUR MISSION The Trial Court is committed to providing equal access to justice for all who use the Commonwealth’s courts; to the efficient and effective administration of justice and the fair and impartial resolution of disputes; to the protection of constitutional and statutory rights and liberties; to prompt and courteous service to the public by committed and dedicated professional employees utilizing best practices in a manner that inspires public trust and confidence. JOIN OUR TEAM Thank you for your interest in the Massachusetts Trial Court and Appeals Court . Please share the following Massachusetts Trial Court career opportunities with your organization. * Deputy Assistant - Legal Counsel - Executive Office of the Trial Court - US-MA-Boston - Closing On 4/10/201 * Case Specialist Series - Lawrence District Court - US-MA-Lawrence - Closing On 4/15/2019 * Case Specialist Series - Attleboro District Court - US-MA-Attleboro - Closing On 4/16/2019 * Case Specialist Series - Southeast Housing Court - US-MA-Fall River - Closing On 4/16/2019 * Administrative Assistant Series - Support Services - Office of Court Management - US-MA-Boston - Closing on 4/16/2019 * Case Specialist Series - Suffolk Juvenile Court - US-MA-Boston - Closing on 4/16/2019 - External * Probation Case Specialist - Norfolk County Juvenile Court - US-MA-Dedham - Closing on 4/16/2019 * Probation Case Specialist - Fitchburg District Court - US-MA-Fitchburg - Closing on 4/18/2019 * Business Analyst - Judicial Information Services Department - Office of Court Management -US-MA-Boston * Information Security Analyst (Vulnerability Management) - Judiciary Information Services Department - Office of Court Management - US-MA-Boston * Security Systems Technician - Office of Court Management - US-MA-Boston - Open Until Filled * Clinical Psychologist - Middlesex Probate & Family Court - US-MA-Cambridge 4/1/2019 Open Until Filled Click Below to view all current Job Postings and instructions on how to apply! Visit our website Please note the Trial Court has an online application process. Paper, faxed, or emailed applications or resumes are not accepted. The Massachusetts Judicial Branch is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. ‌ Massachusetts Court System | Website Trial Court Communications | John Adams Courthouse, One Pemberton Square, Boston, MA 02108 Unsubscribe slabarre at labarrelaw.com Update Profile | About our service provider Sent by hr.department at jud.state.ma.us in collaboration with Try it free today From deborah.byrne at comcast.net Fri Apr 5 23:12:44 2019 From: deborah.byrne at comcast.net (deborah.byrne at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 16:12:44 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] please discontinue subscription Message-ID: <003401d4ec05$139a06c0$3ace1440$@comcast.net> Hello, Please discontinue my subscription to blindlaw. Thank you, Deborah Byrne: Deborah.byrne at comcast.net From ttomasi at driowa.org Sat Apr 6 03:51:21 2019 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2019 03:51:21 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] please discontinue subscription In-Reply-To: <003401d4ec05$139a06c0$3ace1440$@comcast.net> References: <003401d4ec05$139a06c0$3ace1440$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8348220B-3526-4BA4-A8D6-D84261539B4F@driowa.org> You can unsubscribe yourself from this list by sending a message to blindlaw-unsubscribe at nfbnet.org . Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. Email: ttomasi at driowa.org Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. On Apr 5, 2019, at 6:14 PM, Deborah Byrne via BlindLaw > wrote: Hello, Please discontinue my subscription to blindlaw. Thank you, Deborah Byrne: Deborah.byrne at comcast.net _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From dandrews at visi.com Sat Apr 6 12:16:40 2019 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2019 07:16:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards In-Reply-To: <022501d4e8dd$99a2b260$cce81720$@com> References: <022501d4e8dd$99a2b260$cce81720$@com> Message-ID: It is called the Impressor and is from the American Printing House for the Blind. I think you get 4 13-cell lines -- and it used to cost $70. Don't know about current price. Dave At 05:52 PM 4/1/2019, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, wrote: >Ok, Michal, I'm not a great help, > >I've heard of a device, I don't recall its name or its maker/seller, that >can be purchased for embossing Braille on a business card. I believe you >are limited to about four lines of text; you'd have to send whatever you >want on your card off to the maker/seller of the device for programming and >correct alignment. Once done, the device will be shipped off to you; all >you need do is slide in your card, press a lever and presto, the text goes >on your card. > >Again, I don't recall the name of the device, nor do I recall its >seller/maker, but I'll go see what I can hunt down and report back if I >succeed in finding the info. > >Sincerely, >Olusegun >Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From bmerkadam at gmail.com Sat Apr 6 13:10:28 2019 From: bmerkadam at gmail.com (B Merk-Adam) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2019 09:10:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Braille Business Cards In-Reply-To: References: <022501d4e8dd$99a2b260$cce81720$@com> Message-ID: <269711A1-7589-44CB-9DCA-A279401B590B@gmail.com> https://shop.aph.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_Impressor:%20Braille%20Business%20Card%20Embosser,%20Revised_38379154P_10001_11051 Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 6, 2019, at 8:16 AM, David Andrews via BlindLaw wrote: > > It is called the Impressor and is from the American Printing House for the Blind. I think you get 4 13-cell lines -- and it used to cost $70. Don't know about current price. > > Dave > > At 05:52 PM 4/1/2019, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, wrote: >> Ok, Michal, I'm not a great help, >> >> I've heard of a device, I don't recall its name or its maker/seller, that >> can be purchased for embossing Braille on a business card. I believe you >> are limited to about four lines of text; you'd have to send whatever you >> want on your card off to the maker/seller of the device for programming and >> correct alignment. Once done, the device will be shipped off to you; all >> you need do is slide in your card, press a lever and presto, the text goes >> on your card. >> >> Again, I don't recall the name of the device, nor do I recall its >> seller/maker, but I'll go see what I can hunt down and report back if I >> succeed in finding the info. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bmerkadam%40gmail.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Apr 8 14:22:43 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:22:43 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [DRBA] public policy associate position at Center for Public Representation in DC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <049a01d4ee16$87fd90a0$97f8b1e0$@labarrelaw.com> FYI From: Disability Rights Bar Association On Behalf Of Alison Barkoff Sent: Monday, April 8, 2019 7:54 AM To: DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Subject: [DRBA] public policy associate position at Center for Public Representation in DC All-- CPR is hiring for a public policy associate position in DC. If you know of anyone who might be interested, please pass it along! Thanks, Alison ______ The Center for Public Representation is a national advocacy organization that uses legal strategies, advocacy, and policy to advance the civil rights of people with disabilities. CPR seeks a public policy associate in its Washington, D.C office to work on federal policy related to disability rights, healthcare, community integration, employment, and educational opportunities for people with disabilities. Position includes working with Congress, federal agencies, coalitions, and state advocates. For more information on the position, see here or the attached job posting. -- Alison Barkoff Director of Advocacy Center for Public Representation 1825 K St. NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20006 (o) 202-854-1270 REMINDER: The DRBA listserv is intended to facilitate open discussion and sharing of ideas. Members need to feel confident that their discussions will not be distributed beyond the group unnecessarily. PLEASE CONSULT WITH THE SENDER(S) BEFORE FORWARDING ANY LISTSERV DISCUSSIONS BEYOND THE DRBA GROUP. DONATE: The DRBA is a valuable free resource to its members. But the DRBA does have expenses for management, web and listserv services. PLEASE DONATE TODAY any amount you wish Online at http://GiveToSU.com Select “Burton Blatt Institute Fund” from the “My gift is designated to” drop down menu and indicate “DRBA” in the “Gift is to be used for” box. BRIEF BANK: Are you sharing briefs, interrogatories, decisions or other non-confidential resources on this listserv? ARCHIVE them for all present and future members by logging in to the DRBA website, going to the MEMBERS AREA and selecting ONLINE DOCUMENT DATABASE for further instructions. Contact DRBA-Law at law.syr.edu for login credentials and related help. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2019 CPR policy associate job description (4.5.19).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 148626 bytes Desc: not available URL: From keribcu at gmail.com Mon Apr 8 16:42:50 2019 From: keribcu at gmail.com (Keri Svendsen) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 12:42:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] question about SSI and working Message-ID: <3801ab31-df4f-7b01-2f86-90481ef5e5e4@gmail.com> Good afternoon, Is there someone on list that may be willing to answer a few questions about SSI and working. I found special rules for students under 22, but I'm just not sure what there is and isn't there to help me out. I'm moving to a very expensive area to live for graduate school this fall, and I thought taking a job to help pay for expenses would be great, but I'm now wondering how much it will help. I can be reached off list at keribcu at gmail.com thank you, -- Keri Svendsen From ttomasi at driowa.org Mon Apr 8 16:48:55 2019 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 16:48:55 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] question about SSI and working In-Reply-To: <3801ab31-df4f-7b01-2f86-90481ef5e5e4@gmail.com> References: <3801ab31-df4f-7b01-2f86-90481ef5e5e4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Keri: I am hoping to put you in touch with free benefits planning services which can answer your questions, but I need to know where you currently reside and where you are moving. You can contact me privately if you prefer. Thanks. Tai Tomasi, J.D. Pronouns: she/her/hers Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502 x15; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org http://driowa.org/ Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Keri Svendsen via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:43 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Keri Svendsen Subject: [blindlaw] question about SSI and working Good afternoon, Is there someone on list that may be willing to answer a few questions about SSI and working. I found special rules for students under 22, but I'm just not sure what there is and isn't there to help me out. I'm moving to a very expensive area to live for graduate school this fall, and I thought taking a job to help pay for expenses would be great, but I'm now wondering how much it will help. I can be reached off list at keribcu at gmail.com thank you, -- Keri Svendsen _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From NSingh at cov.com Wed Apr 10 23:12:54 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:12:54 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Navigating Sans Braille Signage Message-ID: <4b26e668f77645539fd1fd5e993f5d7d@CBIvEX04eUS.cov.com> Anyone have tips for navigating in a work place with no Braille signage, i.e. finding particular offices or conference rooms? I figure it is like navigating when you are outside where there is no Braille either. I thought I would ask for additional ideas though. Thanks, Nikki Nandini Singh Covington & Burling LLP One CityCenter, 850 Tenth Street, NW Washington, DC 20001-4956 T +1 202 662 5113 | nsingh at cov.com www.cov.com This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. From sanho817 at gmail.com Wed Apr 10 23:47:13 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 18:47:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Navigating Sans Braille Signage In-Reply-To: <4b26e668f77645539fd1fd5e993f5d7d@CBIvEX04eUS.cov.com> References: <4b26e668f77645539fd1fd5e993f5d7d@CBIvEX04eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: <62A76936-A3AD-42A6-A170-09A091A6DB2C@gmail.com> Hello, The hardest part is getting around the very first time. I tend to have someone go through with me that first time, and as we walk, I ask the room numbers in each hall. When the building was being made, someone, somewhere gave it room numbers, even if they were never attached to the doors. Each floor will have a number; 400, 500, 600, and so on. Each hall will have a number; the 420 hallway, the 430 hallway, etc. This can be disrupted with things like conference rooms, but you can still learn that with time. Finally, you can acoustically and tactilely landmark the door and the space around the door. Maybe it's near the end of the hall. Maybe it has a latch on the left, but is 6 inches from one with a latch on the right. Perhaps there's a nearby hallway intersection, or water fountain, or copy machine which always seems to be in use. Basically, sighted people learn to navigate spaces like that using landmarking, and the very first time, they're just as blind as we are... but conference room windows do help 😉 Feel free to reach out with more questions. My first life was as a totally blind mobility specialist. Warmth, Sanho > On Apr 10, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > > Anyone have tips for navigating in a work place with no Braille signage, i.e. finding particular offices or conference rooms? I figure it is like navigating when you are outside where there is no Braille either. I thought I would ask for additional ideas though. > > Thanks, > Nikki > > > Nandini Singh > > Covington & Burling LLP > One CityCenter, 850 Tenth Street, NW > Washington, DC 20001-4956 > T +1 202 662 5113 | nsingh at cov.com > www.cov.com > > This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Apr 11 21:27:25 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 17:27:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all, I just wanted to provide a quick update on this thread. A few of us have been speaking with folks from both Microsoft and Vispero regarding the issues identified with Track Changes a few months back. I do sincerely believe that things are moving, and will continue to move, in the right direction. In the short-term, I wanted to pass along a tip that was hsared with me today during our call that I think will make a real difference in how efficiently we can use track changes until a more permanent fix is found. Microsoft Word has a Quick Access Toolbar where one can customize up to ten quick access keys that involve hitting alt+a numeral from 1 to 0. By default, "next change" is set to alt+9. That's cumbersome for me. But I changed it to alt+1, and made the next four shortcuts accept/go to next, reject/go to next, next comment, and delete comment. When using these keystrokes, at least in the 15 minutes of testing I've done so far, Jaws is far, far more responsive than the lagginess I've experienced with hitting the quick keystrokes to get into the review menu. I already foresee this method significantly cutting down on the time it takes me to review larger documents with multiple revisions. Here's a link with instructions about how to program the Quick Access Toolbar. https://support.office.com/en-us/article/customize-the-quick-access-toolbar-43fff1c9-ebc4-4963-bdbd-c2b6b0739e52 I hope to have more good news to report soon! Happy editing, Laura On 12/23/18, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw wrote: > Angie, > > I'd also like to know what you use for comparison software. Thanks. > > Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela > Matney via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 11:20 AM > To: Laura Wolk > Cc: Angela Matney ; Blind Law Mailing List > ; tim at timeldermusic.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes > > Laura, I'm happy to send an explanation of what I do to help navigate this > issue. It's not ideal, and sometimes it results in multiple versions of a > document being open at the same time, but it is workable, and it's the best > system I've used so far. I'll try to get to that later this evening. > > Thanks, > > Angie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Laura Wolk > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 10:44 AM > To: Angela Matney > Cc: Blind Law Mailing List ; slabarre at labarrelaw.com; > tim at timeldermusic.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes > > > > OK, this is great. > > Scott, let me know if you have trouble following all of this if you are > planning to outline in the letter our various issues with Jaws. > As I see it, the problem is that Jaws ostensibly provides two ways of > obtaining track change info. Both are woefully inaccurate and inadequate. > It'd be fine with me if they scrapped one or the other method, so long as > **one** of them worked reliably. > > Rahul, I'd love it if you could generate a document, as I have a very busy > few weeks coming up (which, incidentally, will involve many, many > trackchanges. Ha!). If you are done with finals, perhaps you could generate > a doc and then angie and I could test it as well to see what we come up > with. It'd be great if someone with Office 365 could hop on this as well, > so that FS can't respond by saying "we're putting all our efforts into > making Office 365 work properly, and it's too bad for the rest of you." > > Angie, perhaps under a different thread heading, you could let us know how > you use comparison software as a work-around to some of this. I have > access > to workshare compare, for instance, and if you have ways of using that to > alleviate some of this headache, I'd love to hear them. And perhaps in the > short-term, we could ask for that program as an accommodation (yes, yes, I > know this isn't ideal, but we also must get our work done). > > Lastly, Rahul, I'll write you off-list about your PDF issues so that I can > be in touch with FS. > > Thanks, everyone! This is the teamwork I love so much that the NFB > provides. > Anyone else with input, please voice your opinions. > > Laura > > > > On 12/19/18, Angela Matney wrote: >> Laura, >> >> I have had similar experiences. JAWS often reads both the original and >> revised text and fails to announce some revisions. I have problems >> with it reliably announcing comments as well. I'm able to use our >> document comparison software as a work-around some of the time, but >> there are many situations where being able to use track-changes would >> be helpful, and our software doesn't help with the comments issue. >> >> Frankly, I wish that JAWS would not try to "interpret" track-changes >> to the extent it does. I think I could be more efficient if it would >> just read changes in the font, attribute and color and let me figure >> things out. We can produce documents like this with our document >> management software. When JAWS tells me that something is blue and >> double-underlined, for example, I recognize it as an insertion. >> >> If you would like some help generating a file with lots of revisions, >> or if you'd like me to test something you generate, let me know. >> >> Angie >> >> >> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >> Attorney at Law >> Admitted only in Virginia >> >> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 Direct >> Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: amatney at loeb.com Los >> Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 8:13 AM >> To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com >> Cc: Laura Wolk ; tim at timeldermusic.com; Blind >> Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >> >> >> >> Scott, >> >> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >> character-by-character analysis. >> >> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >> >> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >> could accompany the NABL letter. >> >> Laura >> >> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: >>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>> best of this holiday season. >>> >>> Best, >>> Scott >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Laura Wolk >>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>> option. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>> traffic >>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>> >>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>> announce a >>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>> com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >> >> >> > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files > or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential > information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to > this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this > transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy > the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in > any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From joshl at loevy.com Thu Apr 11 22:47:36 2019 From: joshl at loevy.com (Josh Loevy) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 17:47:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the update Laura! I have been looking for the default quick access commands, do you happen to know where I can find them? -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 22395 URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Apr 11 23:06:51 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 23:06:51 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Synopsis: Four-Year Court Battle Between Deaf Advocates and Harvard Over Closed Captioning of Videos, Seyfarth Shaw, April 8 2019 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/four-year-court-battle-between-deaf-93827/ Four-Year Court Battle Between Deaf Advocates and Harvard Over Closed Captioning of Videos Proceeds to Discovery With Some Limitations April 8, 2019 by Seyfarth Shaw LLP Seyfarth Synopsis: Four years and two motions to dismiss based on the pleadings later, the National Association of the Deaf's (NAD) online video captioning lawsuit against Harvard is moving forward to fact discovery. On March 28, Federal Magistrate Judge Robertson in the District of Massachusetts denied the university's motion for judgment on the pleadings with some notable discussion about whether websites are places of public accommodation under the ADA and limitations of liability for third party content. Physical Nexus Argument Rejected. The First Circuit has held in a case about an allegedly discriminatory insurance policy that a business can be a public accommodation covered by Title III of the ADA even if it is not associated with a physical place where customers go. Harvard argued that this precedent did not apply to cases involving websites, but the Court was not persuaded. The Court also said that even if the law did require Harvard's websites to have a nexus with a good or service provided at a physical location, the Plaintiffs had sufficiently alleged such a nexus because some of the allegedly inaccessible videos could, for example, pertain to courses taught at the school. University Content Posted on Third Party Websites. The Court said whether Harvard could be legally responsible for content it posts on third party websites (e.g. YouTube, iTunesU, and SoundCloud) depends on facts which have yet to be developed, including whether the university has control over how the content is displayed, and whether captioning the content would provide meaningful access. The Court also noted that the university may be able to show that providing captioning would fundamentally alter the nature of the service provided or be an undue burden. CDA Immunity for Third Party Content. In a meaningful initial victory for Harvard, the Court acknowledged that the Communications Decency Act (CDA) shields Harvard from liability under Title III of the ADA and the Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act with respect to two categories of content: (1) content hosted on a third party-server (not belonging to Harvard) that is hyperlinked in its existing form to content that is hosted on a Harvard platform or website ("Embedded Content") and (2) content is hosted on a Harvard platform or website that Harvard did not create, produce, or substantially alter ("Third Party Content"). The CDA shields website operators, including educational institutions, from being treated as the publisher or speaker of material posted on the website by third party users. While the Court's holding reduces the number of videos that remain at issue in the case, the Court was not willing to immediately exclude all content posted by students, individual faculty members, or other scholars as requested by Harvard. The Court said discovery into Harvard's role with respect to such content is needed to see if it really is third party content exempted by the CDA. To Be Continued... We will continue to monitor this long- running case. NAD filed the lawsuit in 2015, alleging Harvard violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act by failing to provide closed captioning for thousands of videos on its websites. In November 2016, the court denied Harvard's motion to stay or dismiss on the primary jurisdiction doctrine, finding the court did not need the DOJ's expertise to rule on the issue. The present order noted that in the time intervening the two motions, the parties engaged in settlement talks and negotiations to resolve or narrow the issues, but could not reach an agreement. From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 00:26:21 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 20:26:21 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Josh, Hit alt+f, then t to get to options. Arrow down until you hear "quick access tool bar." Then tab over until you hear "customize quick access tool bar list box, save as one of nine." If you arrow down through that list box, you will hear what the defaults are. I hope that helps. Laura On 4/11/19, Josh Loevy via BlindLaw wrote: > Thanks for the update Laura! > I have been looking for the default quick access commands, do you happen > to know where I can find them? > From shannonldillon at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 01:42:14 2019 From: shannonldillon at gmail.com (Shannon Dillon) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 18:42:14 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a comment I have written to edit it. And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw wrote: > > I experience this issue with PDFs as well. > > Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj > via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Rahul Bajaj ; tim at timeldermusic.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes > > Hi Everyone, > > 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting the > much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom > Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning of > the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which they > could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we were > able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were no > revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I am > confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if we > are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track changes > impacts a critical mass of blind people. > > 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the general > sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult to > edit them or to ascertain their number. > 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last > 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when used > with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going up a > line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. All > that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or > converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or navigate > the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to read > a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed the > problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility team > for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, as > it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I wholeheartedly > agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on these > issues, if we want to be taken seriously. > > I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying a > sample document with many revisions in it. > > Best, > Rahul > > > > > > > > > >> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> Scott, >> >> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >> character-by-character analysis. >> >> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >> >> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >> could accompany the NABL letter. >> >> Laura >> >>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: >>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>> best of this holiday season. >>> >>> Best, >>> Scott >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Laura Wolk >>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an option. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>> traffic >>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>> >>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>> announce a >>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>> com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com From rodalcidonis at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 01:46:27 2019 From: rodalcidonis at gmail.com (rodalcidonis at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 21:46:27 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com><78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com><006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com><056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com><032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <17D866CD079F43899BC7408B51D3B131@LAPTOPD7H4OV38> Yes. I have been having the same issues with comments. This demonstrates the level of carelessness and lack of focus that exist at Freedomscientific. JAWS is almost a joke for us working professionals. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shannon Dillon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a comment I have written to edit it. And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw > wrote: > > I experience this issue with PDFs as well. > > Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul > Bajaj > via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Rahul Bajaj ; tim at timeldermusic.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes > > Hi Everyone, > > 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting the > much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom > Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning of > the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which > they > could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we > were > able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were no > revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I am > confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if > we > are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track changes > impacts a critical mass of blind people. > > 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the > general > sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult to > edit them or to ascertain their number. > 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last > 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when used > with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going up > a > line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. All > that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or > converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or > navigate > the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to > read > a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed the > problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility team > for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, as > it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I > wholeheartedly > agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on these > issues, if we want to be taken seriously. > > I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying a > sample document with many revisions in it. > > Best, > Rahul > > > > > > > > > >> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> Scott, >> >> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >> character-by-character analysis. >> >> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >> >> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >> could accompany the NABL letter. >> >> Laura >> >>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: >>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>> best of this holiday season. >>> >>> Best, >>> Scott >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Laura Wolk >>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>> option. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>> traffic >>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>> >>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>> announce a >>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>> com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 01:57:58 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 21:57:58 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <17D866CD079F43899BC7408B51D3B131@LAPTOPD7H4OV38> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <17D866CD079F43899BC7408B51D3B131@LAPTOPD7H4OV38> Message-ID: I brought this issue to their attention too. Comments, footnotes, headers and footers, and textboxes are all controlled by the same "structure," whatever that means, so it's not surprising that it happens across all of those features. it also means, in theory anyway, that one fix should solve the problem globally. Please let me know of anything else that comes up. Shannon, as for your randomly not being able to delete comments, I think sighted people have this problem too with phantom comments that won't delete until you hit delete all comments in document. On 4/11/19, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw wrote: > Yes. I have been having the same issues with comments. This demonstrates the > level of carelessness and lack of focus that exist at Freedomscientific. > JAWS is almost a joke for us working professionals. > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > -----Original Message----- > From: Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Shannon Dillon > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track > Changes > > I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that it > hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As I > press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or character > is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a block of text > been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go through to > delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also has a problem > getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do you have problems > deleting comments? I have problems with both of these things. I can create a > new comment. But I am an able to get into a comment I have written to edit > it. > And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I was > able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >> >> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >> Bajaj >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Rahul Bajaj ; tim at timeldermusic.com >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting the >> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning of >> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >> they >> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >> were >> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were no >> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I am >> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >> we >> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track changes >> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >> >> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >> general >> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult to >> edit them or to ascertain their number. >> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when used >> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going up >> a >> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. All >> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >> navigate >> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >> read >> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed the >> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility team >> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, as >> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >> wholeheartedly >> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on these >> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >> >> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying a >> sample document with many revisions in it. >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Scott, >>> >>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>> character-by-character analysis. >>> >>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>> >>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: >>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>> best of this holiday season. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>> option. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>> >>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>> traffic >>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>> >>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>> announce a >>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>> com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From NSingh at cov.com Fri Apr 12 02:01:43 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 02:01:43 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I can edit as I would usually do -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shannon Dillon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a comment I have written to edit it. And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw wrote: > > I experience this issue with PDFs as well. > > Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj > via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Rahul Bajaj ; tim at timeldermusic.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes > > Hi Everyone, > > 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting the > much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom > Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning of > the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which they > could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we were > able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were no > revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I am > confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if we > are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track changes > impacts a critical mass of blind people. > > 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the general > sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult to > edit them or to ascertain their number. > 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last > 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when used > with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going up a > line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. All > that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or > converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or navigate > the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to read > a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed the > problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility team > for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, as > it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I wholeheartedly > agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on these > issues, if we want to be taken seriously. > > I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying a > sample document with many revisions in it. > > Best, > Rahul > > > > > > > > > >> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> Scott, >> >> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >> character-by-character analysis. >> >> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >> >> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >> could accompany the NABL letter. >> >> Laura >> >>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: >>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>> best of this holiday season. >>> >>> Best, >>> Scott >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Laura Wolk >>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an option. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>> traffic >>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>> >>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>> announce a >>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>> com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri Apr 12 02:43:23 2019 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 21:43:23 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00d401d4f0d9$7f639870$7e2ac950$@visi.com> Laura, Perhaps you have already heard this elsewhere, but on a recent Podcast, Eric Damery made reference to some major changes to the process JAWS uses to track Word changes and revisions were being made, and I believe he said that they would likely be in the May release. Perhaps this will also help. The Quick Access Toolbar is very handy for tasks, I am glad it is helping in this situation. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 7:26 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes Hi Josh, Hit alt+f, then t to get to options. Arrow down until you hear "quick access tool bar." Then tab over until you hear "customize quick access tool bar list box, save as one of nine." If you arrow down through that list box, you will hear what the defaults are. I hope that helps. Laura On 4/11/19, Josh Loevy via BlindLaw wrote: > Thanks for the update Laura! > I have been looking for the default quick access commands, do you happen > to know where I can find them? > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% 2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289 e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256 635936283&sdata=jxiiiAIO0NyjgaNgaIKv5Nwwpg1xJj%2B0fV6NbruDn9k%3D&res erved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% 2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540visi.com& data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa aaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256635946287&sdata=rDpG7%2FrkW%2BDxCWnriPtHDyh NIdGakgf0Cel2ENa7BJg%3D&reserved=0 From rfarber at jw.com Fri Apr 12 05:17:55 2019 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 05:17:55 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <17D866CD079F43899BC7408B51D3B131@LAPTOPD7H4OV38> Message-ID: <50c8c33a1d634249bb9814f8db40ac1c@jw.com> I have a similar problem in tables. I often can not select words or rows. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 8:58 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** I brought this issue to their attention too. Comments, footnotes, headers and footers, and textboxes are all controlled by the same "structure," whatever that means, so it's not surprising that it happens across all of those features. it also means, in theory anyway, that one fix should solve the problem globally. Please let me know of anything else that comes up. Shannon, as for your randomly not being able to delete comments, I think sighted people have this problem too with phantom comments that won't delete until you hit delete all comments in document. On 4/11/19, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw wrote: > Yes. I have been having the same issues with comments. This demonstrates the > level of carelessness and lack of focus that exist at Freedomscientific. > JAWS is almost a joke for us working professionals. > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > -----Original Message----- > From: Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Shannon Dillon > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track > Changes > > I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that it > hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As I > press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or character > is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a block of text > been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go through to > delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also has a problem > getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do you have problems > deleting comments? I have problems with both of these things. I can create a > new comment. But I am an able to get into a comment I have written to edit > it. > And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I was > able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >> >> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >> Bajaj >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Rahul Bajaj ; tim at timeldermusic.com >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting the >> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning of >> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >> they >> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >> were >> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were no >> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I am >> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >> we >> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track changes >> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >> >> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >> general >> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult to >> edit them or to ascertain their number. >> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when used >> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going up >> a >> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. All >> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >> navigate >> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >> read >> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed the >> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility team >> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, as >> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >> wholeheartedly >> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on these >> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >> >> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying a >> sample document with many revisions in it. >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Scott, >>> >>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>> character-by-character analysis. >>> >>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>> >>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: >>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>> best of this holiday season. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>> option. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>> >>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>> traffic >>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>> >>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>> announce a >>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>> com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 12:42:53 2019 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 08:42:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options aren't available. Angie Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I can edit as I would usually do > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Shannon Dillon > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes > > I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a comment I have written to edit it. > And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >> >> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Rahul Bajaj ; tim at timeldermusic.com >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting the >> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning of >> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which they >> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we were >> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were no >> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I am >> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if we >> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track changes >> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >> >> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the general >> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult to >> edit them or to ascertain their number. >> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when used >> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going up a >> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. All >> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or navigate >> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to read >> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed the >> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility team >> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, as >> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I wholeheartedly >> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on these >> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >> >> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying a >> sample document with many revisions in it. >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Scott, >>> >>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>> character-by-character analysis. >>> >>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>> >>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: >>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>> best of this holiday season. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an option. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>> >>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>> traffic >>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>> >>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>> announce a >>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>> com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 13:11:50 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 09:11:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> Hi all, As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the editing and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work with them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible get addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and are encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread already, please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the problem you just described when I get to work. One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. Thanks! Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options aren't available. > > Angie > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I can edit as I would usually do >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Shannon Dillon >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes >> >> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a comment I have written to edit it. >> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>> >>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj ; tim at timeldermusic.com >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting the >>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning of >>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which they >>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we were >>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were no >>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I am >>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if we >>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track changes >>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>> >>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the general >>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult to >>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when used >>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going up a >>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. All >>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or navigate >>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to read >>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed the >>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility team >>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, as >>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I wholeheartedly >>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on these >>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>> >>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying a >>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Scott, >>>> >>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>> >>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>> >>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: >>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Scott >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>> >>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>> >>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an option. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>> traffic >>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>> announce a >>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>> l.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 13:24:27 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 09:24:27 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> Message-ID: Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and actively working on: 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. Also impacts the list tracked change feature. 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a certain point. 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. Laura On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Hi all, > > As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the editing > and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work with > them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible get > addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and are > encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread already, > please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the > problem you just described when I get to work. > One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in > making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will > probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. > > Thanks! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting >> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at >> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in >> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command >> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options >> aren't available. >> >> Angie >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, >>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I >>> can edit as I would usually do >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>> Changes >>> >>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that >>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As >>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go >>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also >>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do >>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these >>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>> comment I have written to edit it. >>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I >>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>> >>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >>>> Bajaj >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj ; tim at timeldermusic.com >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting >>>> the >>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning >>>> of >>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >>>> they >>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >>>> were >>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were >>>> no >>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I >>>> am >>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >>>> we >>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>> changes >>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>> >>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>> general >>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult >>>> to >>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>> used >>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going >>>> up a >>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. >>>> All >>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>> navigate >>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >>>> read >>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed >>>> the >>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility >>>> team >>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, >>>> as >>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>> wholeheartedly >>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>> these >>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>> >>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying >>>> a >>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>>>> >>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>>>> >>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>>>> >>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>> >>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>>> >>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: >>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Scott >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>>>> >>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>>>> >>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>> option. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>> traffic >>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>> announce a >>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>>> >>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 13:30:22 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 09:30:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <00d401d4f0d9$7f639870$7e2ac950$@visi.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> <00d401d4f0d9$7f639870$7e2ac950$@visi.com> Message-ID: Sorry for the cross-post, but in case some folks are following one thread and not another: VFO is planning on issuing a new release some time in the next month to address as many of these concerns as possible. I will be working with them on their Beta test to make sure they are actually addressed. Microsoft will also be working on things from their end, but they will primarily be implementing them in the latest build, so I anticipate that we will need to advocate for upgrades to the latest version of office as accommodations in our job. Here is the list of issues about which Vfo and Microsoft are aware. Please let me know if anything that you are encountering is not on this list. 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. Also impacts the list tracked change feature. 2. Jaws occasionally reads both the old and the revised text. 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. 5. Reliably being able to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. 6. Always showing dots 7-8 on the display in footnotes. 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop advancing after a certain point. 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. 10. call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. 12. General sluggishness/lagginess when navigating the ribbon. Thanks everyone! Laura On 4/11/19, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw wrote: > Laura, > > Perhaps you have already heard this elsewhere, but on a recent Podcast, > Eric > Damery made reference to some major changes to the process JAWS uses to > track Word changes and revisions were being made, and I believe he said > that > they would likely be in the May release. Perhaps this will also help. > > The Quick Access Toolbar is very handy for tasks, I am glad it is helping > in > this situation. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via > BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 7:26 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes > > Hi Josh, > > Hit alt+f, then t to get to options. Arrow down until you hear "quick > access tool bar." Then tab over until you hear "customize quick > access tool bar list box, save as one of nine." If you arrow down > through that list box, you will hear what the defaults are. I hope > that helps. > > Laura > > On 4/11/19, Josh Loevy via BlindLaw wrote: >> Thanks for the update Laura! >> I have been looking for the default quick access commands, do you happen >> to know where I can find them? >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% > 2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289 > e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256 > 635936283&sdata=jxiiiAIO0NyjgaNgaIKv5Nwwpg1xJj%2B0fV6NbruDn9k%3D&res > erved=0 > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% > 2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540visi.com& > data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa > aaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256635946287&sdata=rDpG7%2FrkW%2BDxCWnriPtHDyh > NIdGakgf0Cel2ENa7BJg%3D&reserved=0 > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 13:37:06 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 09:37:06 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Message-ID: Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! From ttomasi at driowa.org Fri Apr 12 13:43:07 2019 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 13:43:07 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I am having this problem. Tai Tomasi, J.D. Pronouns: she/her/hers Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502 x15; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org http://driowa.org/ Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 8:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From rfarber at jw.com Fri Apr 12 14:27:24 2019 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 14:27:24 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22b5e39063484c15a40c63f0b728bd09@jw.com> Laura - I have that problem. However, I have found that if I wait 20 seconds or so, it eventually reads the mis-spelled word. I estimate that one time out of 3 spell checks, it appears that JAWS isn't reading the mis-spelled word (happens most often in Outlook). Of the times that JAWS appears not to be reading the mis-spelled word, it eventually reads about 7 out of 10 of them if I continue to wait a long time - 20 seconds or so. Randy -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 8:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER - USE CAUTION** Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com From amatney at loeb.com Fri Apr 12 15:03:15 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:03:15 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Laura, I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the virtual viewer as well. Angie ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and actively working on: 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. Also impacts the list tracked change feature. 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a certain point. 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. Laura On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: > Hi all, > > As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the editing > and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work with > them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible get > addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and are > encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread already, > please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the > problem you just described when I get to work. > One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in > making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will > probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. > > Thanks! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >> > wrote: >> >> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting >> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at >> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in >> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command >> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options >> aren't available. >> >> Angie >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>> > wrote: >>> >>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, >>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I >>> can edit as I would usually do >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>> Changes >>> >>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that >>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As >>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go >>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also >>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do >>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these >>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>> comment I have written to edit it. >>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I >>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>> >>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >>>> Bajaj >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >; tim at timeldermusic.com >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting >>>> the >>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning >>>> of >>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >>>> they >>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >>>> were >>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were >>>> no >>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I >>>> am >>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >>>> we >>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>> changes >>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>> >>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>> general >>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult >>>> to >>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>> used >>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going >>>> up a >>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. >>>> All >>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>> navigate >>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >>>> read >>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed >>>> the >>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility >>>> team >>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, >>>> as >>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>> wholeheartedly >>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>> these >>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>> >>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying >>>> a >>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>>>> >>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>>>> >>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>>>> >>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>> >>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>>> >>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: >>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Scott >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' > >>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>>>> >>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>>>> >>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, > >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>> option. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>> traffic >>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>> announce a >>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>>> >>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com From amatney at loeb.com Fri Apr 12 15:06:00 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:06:00 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01D8@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Laura, I have had this issue with spell-check. I think it is new to JAWS 2019 but I’m not sure. ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com From amatney at loeb.com Fri Apr 12 15:08:03 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:08:03 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up at the end, and I can read them that way. From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Angela Matney Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes Laura, I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the virtual viewer as well. Angie ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and actively working on: 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. Also impacts the list tracked change feature. 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a certain point. 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. Laura On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: > Hi all, > > As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the editing > and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work with > them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible get > addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and are > encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread already, > please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the > problem you just described when I get to work. > One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in > making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will > probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. > > Thanks! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >> > wrote: >> >> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting >> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at >> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in >> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command >> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options >> aren't available. >> >> Angie >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>> > wrote: >>> >>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, >>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I >>> can edit as I would usually do >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>> Changes >>> >>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that >>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As >>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go >>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also >>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do >>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these >>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>> comment I have written to edit it. >>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I >>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>> >>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >>>> Bajaj >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >; tim at timeldermusic.com >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting >>>> the >>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning >>>> of >>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >>>> they >>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >>>> were >>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were >>>> no >>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I >>>> am >>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >>>> we >>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>> changes >>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>> >>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>> general >>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult >>>> to >>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>> used >>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going >>>> up a >>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. >>>> All >>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>> navigate >>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >>>> read >>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed >>>> the >>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility >>>> team >>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, >>>> as >>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>> wholeheartedly >>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>> these >>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>> >>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying >>>> a >>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>>>> >>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>>>> >>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>>>> >>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>> >>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>>> >>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: >>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Scott >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' > >>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>>>> >>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>>>> >>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, > >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>> option. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>> traffic >>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>> announce a >>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>>> >>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com From Craig.Borne at cms.hhs.gov Fri Apr 12 15:18:39 2019 From: Craig.Borne at cms.hhs.gov (Borne, Craig D. (CMS/OEOCR)) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:18:39 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01D8@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> References: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01D8@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: Is anyone also having an issue with creating distribution lists in Outlook? I can no longer "see" the list of individuals added to the list for purposes of deleting. Craig -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:06 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Angela Matney Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Laura, I have had this issue with spell-check. I think it is new to JAWS 2019 but I’m not sure. ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=aa07f36d-f653da46-aa07c252-0cc47a6d17cc-5c1d7fc860806d28&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=a1b0e247-fde4cb6c-a1b0d378-0cc47a6d17cc-2498ff94f7a54cea&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=774c58f4-2b1871df-774c69cb-0cc47a6d17cc-bbb98de18bc9bdd7&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=bbe7a5e9-e7b38cc2-bbe794d6-0cc47a6d17cc-ae82cb0797b0f88e&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40cms.hhs.gov From rfarber at jw.com Fri Apr 12 15:45:20 2019 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:45:20 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01D8@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: Yes. I am having problems with distribution lists also. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Borne, Craig D. (CMS/OEOCR) via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 10:19 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Borne, Craig D. (CMS/OEOCR) Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** Is anyone also having an issue with creating distribution lists in Outlook? I can no longer "see" the list of individuals added to the list for purposes of deleting. Craig -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:06 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Angela Matney Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Laura, I have had this issue with spell-check. I think it is new to JAWS 2019 but I’m not sure. ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=aa07f36d-f653da46-aa07c252-0cc47a6d17cc-5c1d7fc860806d28&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=a1b0e247-fde4cb6c-a1b0d378-0cc47a6d17cc-2498ff94f7a54cea&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=774c58f4-2b1871df-774c69cb-0cc47a6d17cc-bbb98de18bc9bdd7&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=bbe7a5e9-e7b38cc2-bbe794d6-0cc47a6d17cc-ae82cb0797b0f88e&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40cms.hhs.gov _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com From jameyanne at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 16:05:57 2019 From: jameyanne at gmail.com (Jameyanne Fuller) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 12:05:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01D8@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: <004601d4f149$9dedc8e0$d9c95aa0$@gmail.com> I am also having trouble with jaws and spell check. I don't have the latest version of jaws though, and honestly I gave up on using the spell check dialogue in like word 2007 because it was so awful. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Farber, Randy via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:45 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Farber, Randy Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Yes. I am having problems with distribution lists also. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Borne, Craig D. (CMS/OEOCR) via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 10:19 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Borne, Craig D. (CMS/OEOCR) Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** Is anyone also having an issue with creating distribution lists in Outlook? I can no longer "see" the list of individuals added to the list for purposes of deleting. Craig -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:06 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Angela Matney Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Laura, I have had this issue with spell-check. I think it is new to JAWS 2019 but I’m not sure. ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=aa07f36d-f653da46-aa07c252-0cc47a6d17cc-5c1d7fc860806d28&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=a1b0e247-fde4cb6c-a1b0d378-0cc47a6d17cc-2498ff94f7a54cea&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=774c58f4-2b1871df-774c69cb-0cc47a6d17cc-bbb98de18bc9bdd7&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=bbe7a5e9-e7b38cc2-bbe794d6-0cc47a6d17cc-ae82cb0797b0f88e&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40cms.hhs.gov _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From shannonldillon at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 16:51:03 2019 From: shannonldillon at gmail.com (Shannon Dillon) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 09:51:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: <004601d4f149$9dedc8e0$d9c95aa0$@gmail.com> References: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01D8@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <004601d4f149$9dedc8e0$d9c95aa0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9C9EFC0C-0AFB-46B6-BCBD-64E7A5E92768@gmail.com> I am having the same problem with JaWS and spellcheck. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 9:05 AM, Jameyanne Fuller via BlindLaw wrote: > > I am also having trouble with jaws and spell check. I don't have the latest version of jaws though, and honestly I gave up on using the spell check dialogue in like word 2007 because it was so awful. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Farber, Randy via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:45 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Farber, Randy > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck > > Yes. I am having problems with distribution lists also. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Borne, Craig D. (CMS/OEOCR) via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 10:19 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Borne, Craig D. (CMS/OEOCR) > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck > > **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** > > Is anyone also having an issue with creating distribution lists in Outlook? I can no longer "see" the list of individuals added to the list for purposes of deleting. > Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:06 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Angela Matney > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck > > Laura, > > I have had this issue with spell-check. I think it is new to JAWS 2019 but I’m not sure. > > > > > > ________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > ________________________________ > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:37 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck > > > > Hi everyone, > > On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. > > Thanks! > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=aa07f36d-f653da46-aa07c252-0cc47a6d17cc-5c1d7fc860806d28&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=a1b0e247-fde4cb6c-a1b0d378-0cc47a6d17cc-2498ff94f7a54cea&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=774c58f4-2b1871df-774c69cb-0cc47a6d17cc-bbb98de18bc9bdd7&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=bbe7a5e9-e7b38cc2-bbe794d6-0cc47a6d17cc-ae82cb0797b0f88e&u=http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40cms.hhs.gov > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jameyanne%40gmail.com > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com From shannonldillon at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 17:01:29 2019 From: shannonldillon at gmail.com (Shannon Dillon) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 10:01:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: When I am trying to read revisions in track changes, I also have difficulty distinguishing which text has been deleted and which has been added. It jumbles all the words together and I can’t tell what was deleted or added. Or does someone have a workaround for that? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: > > Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up at the end, and I can read them that way. > > > > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Angela Matney > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes > > > > Laura, > > I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the virtual viewer as well. > > Angie > > ________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > ________________________________ > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes > > > > Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and > actively working on: > > 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. > Also impacts the list tracked change feature. > 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. > 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. > 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. > 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. > 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. > 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. > 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a > certain point. > 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather > than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. > 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. > 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden > properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. > > Laura > > >> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the editing >> and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work with >> them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible get >> addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and are >> encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread already, >> please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the >> problem you just described when I get to work. >> One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in >> making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will >> probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >>> > wrote: >>> >>> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >>> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting >>> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >>> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at >>> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in >>> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command >>> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >>> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options >>> aren't available. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, >>>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I >>>> can edit as I would usually do >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>> Changes >>>> >>>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that >>>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As >>>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go >>>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also >>>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do >>>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these >>>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>>> comment I have written to edit it. >>>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I >>>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>>> >>>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >>>>> Bajaj >>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >; tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>> >>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>> >>>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting >>>>> the >>>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >>>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning >>>>> of >>>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >>>>> they >>>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >>>>> were >>>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were >>>>> no >>>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I >>>>> am >>>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >>>>> we >>>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>>> changes >>>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>>> >>>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>>> general >>>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult >>>>> to >>>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >>>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>>> used >>>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going >>>>> up a >>>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. >>>>> All >>>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>>> navigate >>>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >>>>> read >>>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed >>>>> the >>>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility >>>>> team >>>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, >>>>> as >>>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>>> wholeheartedly >>>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>>> these >>>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>>> >>>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying >>>>> a >>>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>>>>> >>>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>>>>> >>>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>>>>> >>>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>>> >>>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>>>> >>>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: >>>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' > >>>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>>>>> >>>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, > >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>>> traffic >>>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>>> announce a >>>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>>> om >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com From ttomasi at driowa.org Fri Apr 12 17:05:38 2019 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:05:38 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: I have the same difficulty, and often have to arrow through character by character to determine what has been inserted or deleted. Not efficient at all. Tai Tomasi, J.D. Pronouns: she/her/hers Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502 x15; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org http://driowa.org/ Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 12:01 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shannon Dillon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes When I am trying to read revisions in track changes, I also have difficulty distinguishing which text has been deleted and which has been added. It jumbles all the words together and I can’t tell what was deleted or added. Or does someone have a workaround for that? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: > > Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up at the end, and I can read them that way. > > > > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela > Matney via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Angela Matney > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track > Changes > > > > Laura, > > I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the virtual viewer as well. > > Angie > > ________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > ________________________________ > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk > via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track > Changes > > > > Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and > actively working on: > > 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. > Also impacts the list tracked change feature. > 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. > 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. > 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. > 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. > 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. > 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. > 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a > certain point. > 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather > than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. > 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. > 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden > properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. > > Laura > > >> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the >> editing and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am >> going to work with them on the beta test to make sure as many of >> these issues as possible get addressed in the next release. If you >> have the latest build of Jaws and are encountering problems that we >> have not discussed in this thread already, please let me know as soon >> as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the problem you just described when I get to work. >> One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested >> in making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we >> will probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >>> > wrote: >>> >>> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >>> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then >>> pasting them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to >>> "print" view, pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been >>> an issue, but at least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add >>> a comment while I'm in print view, the title bar will say "Revisions >>> pane," the paste command will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >>> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu >>> options aren't available. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and >>>> previous buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in >>>> the comment pane, I do notice that JAWS' performance seems >>>> inexplicably to slow down, but I can edit as I would usually do >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and >>>> Track Changes >>>> >>>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a >>>> comment, that it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I >>>> can’t select words. As I press control shift right arrow, or shift >>>> right arrow, the word or character is selected and then and >>>> selected. So I can never select a block of text been deleted. I >>>> have to use the delete key by itself and go through to delete the >>>> whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also has a problem >>>> getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do you have >>>> problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these >>>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a comment I have written to edit it. >>>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure >>>> how I was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>>> >>>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> > >>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>> >; >>>>> tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>> >>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>> >>>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is >>>>> getting the much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few >>>>> months ago, Freedom Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that >>>>> the sporadic functioning of the virtual viewer for accessing a >>>>> list of revisions was an issue which they could address. It was >>>>> only after some of us reached out to them that we were able to >>>>> move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were no >>>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. >>>>> So I am confident that we will be able to get all outstanding >>>>> issues resolved if we are able to make good the claim that the >>>>> inaccessibility of track changes impacts a critical mass of blind >>>>> people. >>>>> >>>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - >>>>> the general sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is >>>>> very difficult to edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the >>>>> last >>>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - >>>>> when used with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if >>>>> you try going up a line and doesn't enable you to read a document >>>>> in a para-wise fashion. >>>>> All >>>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command >>>>> or navigate the document line-by-line, both of which are highly >>>>> inefficient ways to read a document. I reached out to Vispero >>>>> about this, and they attributed the problem to Adobe. I have been >>>>> communicating with Adobe accessibility team for the last month, >>>>> but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, as it appears >>>>> that not many people have reported the issue. So I wholeheartedly >>>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>>> these issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>>> >>>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of >>>>> supplying a sample document with many revisions in it. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people >>>>>> also >>>>>> >>>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the >>>>>> original and edited text when you're reading through a document? >>>>>> This didn't used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using >>>>>> Office 2016, Windows >>>>>> >>>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that >>>>>> Jaws doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track >>>>>> changes. Can >>>>>> >>>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the >>>>>> file's contents rather than the generated list also does not give >>>>>> the user accurate information unless he engages in rather >>>>>> cumbersome character-by-character analysis. >>>>>> >>>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I >>>>>> tried hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually >>>>>> turned out fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of >>>>>> a 25-page document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were >>>>>> probably closer to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>>>> >>>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a >>>>>> file with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. >>>>>> Perhaps this could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: >>>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great >>>>>>> interest and I am going to work on a letter from the National >>>>>>> Association of Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will >>>>>>> likely also write MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to >>>>>>> wish all of you the very best of this holiday season. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > On Behalf Of Tim Elder via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer >>>>>>> of JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly >>>>>>> learning NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much >>>>>>> as the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with >>>>>>> more than >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every >>>>>>> round of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 >>>>>>> was my work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. >>>>>>> It'd be great >>>>>>> >>>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually >>>>>>> give us the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work >>>>>>>> reliably in >>>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is >>>>>>> an option. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>>> traffic >>>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>>> announce a >>>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions >>>>>>> to display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives >>>>>>> the false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at >>>>>>> every revision when there could be a hundred more that are not >>>>>>> displaying that you haven't reviewed. note that though this >>>>>>> isn't a terrible inconvenience when you are integrating all >>>>>>> changes into one draft from only one document, it is a huge >>>>>>> problem if you are receiving multiple streams of edits from >>>>>>> multiple sources that you are trying to accept/reject and then >>>>>>> compile into one final draft. So be forewarned, Jaws is sstill >>>>>>> failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>>> >>>>>> 40labarrelaw.%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1 >>>>> 038%40gmai >>>>> >>>> 1038%40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>> %3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya >>>>> %40gmail.c >>>>> >>>> a%40gmail.c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> om >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>> %3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldill >>>>> on%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> on%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> 3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov. >>>> com >>>> >>> .com%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> 3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney% >>>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >> 40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >> e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw olk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e____________________________ > ___________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.c > om _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.c > om _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%4 > 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From NSingh at cov.com Fri Apr 12 17:05:46 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:05:46 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: <101c4b7ab97c4a4bab3bd93ce32de278@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> I think that is one of the fundamental issues. It is intensely difficult to differentiate between old and new text, not to mention when there is an entire rainbow of revisions from multiple editors and co-counsel. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 1:01 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shannon Dillon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes When I am trying to read revisions in track changes, I also have difficulty distinguishing which text has been deleted and which has been added. It jumbles all the words together and I can’t tell what was deleted or added. Or does someone have a workaround for that? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: > > Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up at the end, and I can read them that way. > > > > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Angela Matney > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes > > > > Laura, > > I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the virtual viewer as well. > > Angie > > ________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > ________________________________ > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes > > > > Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and > actively working on: > > 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. > Also impacts the list tracked change feature. > 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. > 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. > 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. > 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. > 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. > 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. > 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a > certain point. > 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather > than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. > 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. > 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden > properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. > > Laura > > >> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the editing >> and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work with >> them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible get >> addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and are >> encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread already, >> please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the >> problem you just described when I get to work. >> One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in >> making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will >> probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >>> > wrote: >>> >>> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >>> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting >>> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >>> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at >>> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in >>> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command >>> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >>> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options >>> aren't available. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, >>>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I >>>> can edit as I would usually do >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>> Changes >>>> >>>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that >>>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As >>>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go >>>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also >>>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do >>>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these >>>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>>> comment I have written to edit it. >>>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I >>>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>>> >>>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >>>>> Bajaj >>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >; tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>> >>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>> >>>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting >>>>> the >>>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >>>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning >>>>> of >>>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >>>>> they >>>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >>>>> were >>>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were >>>>> no >>>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I >>>>> am >>>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >>>>> we >>>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>>> changes >>>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>>> >>>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>>> general >>>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult >>>>> to >>>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >>>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>>> used >>>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going >>>>> up a >>>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. >>>>> All >>>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>>> navigate >>>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >>>>> read >>>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed >>>>> the >>>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility >>>>> team >>>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, >>>>> as >>>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>>> wholeheartedly >>>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>>> these >>>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>>> >>>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying >>>>> a >>>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>>>>> >>>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>>>>> >>>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>>>>> >>>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>>> >>>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>>>> >>>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: >>>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' > >>>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>>>>> >>>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, > >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>>> traffic >>>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>>> announce a >>>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>>> om >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From PChang at nfb.org Fri Apr 12 17:42:26 2019 From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:42:26 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: need a good self-advocacy story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear all, I am hunting for good self-advocacy stories that show how NFB involvement helps us learn to help ourselves through self-advocacy. These do not need to be polished. Please make suggestions and I will follow up on contacts. Of course if any of you can write a 150 or 200 word blurb on your own story, that would be truly awesome. Thanks so much for all you do. Patti Chang Esq. Director of Outreach 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org Cell: 773-307-6440 [National Federation of the Blind] [Facebook] [Twitter] [Youtube] The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation’s blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want. Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ State-Affiliate-Leadership-List mailing list State-Affiliate-Leadership-List at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/state-affiliate-leadership-list_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for State-Affiliate-Leadership-List: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/state-affiliate-leadership-list_nfbnet.org/pchang at nfb.org From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Apr 12 18:03:59 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 18:03:59 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have have the impression that, when I do a spell check in Outlook using JAWS, when nothing happens, that means that there were no spelling errors. However, the comments I am reading on this list makes me think that I just am not waiting long enough to hear that there was a spelling error. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 6:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 19:27:48 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:27:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <101c4b7ab97c4a4bab3bd93ce32de278@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <101c4b7ab97c4a4bab3bd93ce32de278@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: <8F230CE8-6D55-4B2D-8B1B-4425B7308942@gmail.com> Are people who are still having this problem running the latest version of Jaws? The last update largely fixed this for me. By problem I mean Jaws reading both old and revised text. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > > I think that is one of the fundamental issues. It is intensely difficult to differentiate between old and new text, not to mention when there is an entire rainbow of revisions from multiple editors and co-counsel. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 1:01 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Shannon Dillon > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes > > When I am trying to read revisions in track changes, I also have difficulty distinguishing which text has been deleted and which has been added. It jumbles all the words together and I can’t tell what was deleted or added. Or does someone have a workaround for that? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up at the end, and I can read them that way. >> >> >> >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Angela Matney >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes >> >> >> >> Laura, >> >> I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the virtual viewer as well. >> >> Angie >> >> ________________________________ >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >> ________________________________ >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes >> >> >> >> Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and >> actively working on: >> >> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >> 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. >> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. >> 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. >> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. >> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. >> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a >> certain point. >> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >> 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >> >> Laura >> >> >>> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the editing >>> and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work with >>> them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible get >>> addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and are >>> encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread already, >>> please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the >>> problem you just described when I get to work. >>> One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in >>> making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will >>> probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >>>> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting >>>> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >>>> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at >>>> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in >>>> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command >>>> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >>>> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options >>>> aren't available. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>>>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>>>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, >>>>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I >>>>> can edit as I would usually do >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>>> Changes >>>>> >>>>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that >>>>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As >>>>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>>>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>>>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go >>>>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also >>>>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do >>>>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these >>>>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>>>> comment I have written to edit it. >>>>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I >>>>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >>>>>> Bajaj >>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >; tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting >>>>>> the >>>>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >>>>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning >>>>>> of >>>>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >>>>>> they >>>>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >>>>>> were >>>>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were >>>>>> no >>>>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I >>>>>> am >>>>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >>>>>> we >>>>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>>>> changes >>>>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>>>> general >>>>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult >>>>>> to >>>>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >>>>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>>>> used >>>>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going >>>>>> up a >>>>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. >>>>>> All >>>>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>>>> navigate >>>>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >>>>>> read >>>>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed >>>>>> the >>>>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility >>>>>> team >>>>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, >>>>>> as >>>>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>>>> wholeheartedly >>>>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>>>> these >>>>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying >>>>>> a >>>>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>>> Scott, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>>>>>> >>>>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>>>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>>>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>>>>>> >>>>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>>>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>>>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>>>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: >>>>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' > >>>>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, > >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>>>> traffic >>>>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>>>> announce a >>>>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>>>> om >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From sbg at sbgaal.com Fri Apr 12 19:49:25 2019 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 14:49:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01a101d4f168$d56c3bc0$8044b340$@sbgaal.com> yes Sincerely, Shannon Brady Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, Texas 79401 Office:  (806) 763-3999 Mobile:  (806) 781-9296 Fax:  (806) 749-3752 E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 8:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From PChang at nfb.org Fri Apr 12 19:55:19 2019 From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 19:55:19 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: <01a101d4f168$d56c3bc0$8044b340$@sbgaal.com> References: <01a101d4f168$d56c3bc0$8044b340$@sbgaal.com> Message-ID: I find that if you tab around it will read it out. Not perfect but doable. Patti Chang Esq. Director of Outreach 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org Cell: 773-307-6440                                   The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 2:49 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Shannon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck yes Sincerely, Shannon Brady Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, Texas 79401 Office:  (806) 763-3999 Mobile:  (806) 781-9296 Fax:  (806) 749-3752 E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 8:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg at sbgaal.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang at nfb.org Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au Fri Apr 12 19:59:42 2019 From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 19:59:42 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] Jaw and spellcheck Message-ID: I find it far more problematic that the accelerator keys no longer work. I used to be able to hit alt c and have it change a word. now I have to tab around which takes more time. Dr Paul Harpur BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. Senior Lecturer   TC Beirne School of Law The University of Queensland Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia   T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page  CRICOS code: 00025B Scientia ac Labore This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chang, Patti via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, 13 April 2019 5:55 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Chang, Patti Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck I find that if you tab around it will read it out. Not perfect but doable. Patti Chang Esq. Director of Outreach 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org Cell: 773-307-6440                                   The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 2:49 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Shannon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck yes Sincerely, Shannon Brady Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, Texas 79401 Office:  (806) 763-3999 Mobile:  (806) 781-9296 Fax:  (806) 749-3752 E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 8:37 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck Hi everyone, On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. Thanks! _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg at sbgaal.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang at nfb.org Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Fri Apr 12 20:25:30 2019 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 14:25:30 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] MOBILE APP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <035901d4f16d$e05da5f0$a118f1d0$@com> Hi All: Anyone playing with WestLaw's mobile app? I'm considering installing the one I found for My Shiny Android toy, but I wanted to get a feel for what others have been able to accomplished using WestLaw's mobile app. Much thanks! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 20:56:33 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 16:56:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] MOBILE APP In-Reply-To: <035901d4f16d$e05da5f0$a118f1d0$@com> References: <035901d4f16d$e05da5f0$a118f1d0$@com> Message-ID: <47D4B73E-B788-431E-A56C-5689DB776536@gmail.com> Paul, You just hit the accelerator keys without alt now. c for change, g for ignore, etc. You shouldn't need to tab around each time. Let me know if this helps. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi All: > > Anyone playing with WestLaw's mobile app? I'm considering installing the > one I found for My Shiny Android toy, but I wanted to get a feel for what > others have been able to accomplished using WestLaw's mobile app. Much > thanks! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 20:58:26 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 16:58:26 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: <01a101d4f168$d56c3bc0$8044b340$@sbgaal.com> Message-ID: OK I'm adding spell check to the list. I think yall need to get together and buy me a festivus pole. Haha. Thanks! Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 3:55 PM, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw wrote: > > I find that if you tab around it will read it out. Not perfect but doable. > > > Patti Chang Esq. > Director of Outreach > 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 > (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org > Cell: 773-307-6440 > > > > > > > The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 2:49 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Shannon > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck > > yes > > Sincerely, > > Shannon Brady Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, Texas 79401 > Office: (806) 763-3999 > Mobile: (806) 781-9296 > Fax: (806) 749-3752 > E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 8:37 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck > > Hi everyone, > > On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. > > Thanks! > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg at sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang at nfb.org > > Disclaimer > > The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From shannonldillon at gmail.com Fri Apr 12 22:55:08 2019 From: shannonldillon at gmail.com (Shannon Dillon) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:55:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <8F230CE8-6D55-4B2D-8B1B-4425B7308942@gmail.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <101c4b7ab97c4a4bab3bd93ce32de278@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <8F230CE8-6D55-4B2D-8B1B-4425B7308942@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56845BCB-CECB-45F3-837F-8E0D983A924A@gmail.com> I am definitely running the most recent version of jaws. Since it’s the first thing freedom scientific asks whenever you call Technical Support, I make sure to keep mine updated. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 12:27 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > Are people who are still having this problem running the latest version of Jaws? The last update largely fixed this for me. By problem I mean Jaws reading both old and revised text. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 12, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I think that is one of the fundamental issues. It is intensely difficult to differentiate between old and new text, not to mention when there is an entire rainbow of revisions from multiple editors and co-counsel. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 1:01 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Shannon Dillon >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes >> >> When I am trying to read revisions in track changes, I also have difficulty distinguishing which text has been deleted and which has been added. It jumbles all the words together and I can’t tell what was deleted or added. Or does someone have a workaround for that? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up at the end, and I can read them that way. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Angela Matney >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> >>> >>> Laura, >>> >>> I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the virtual viewer as well. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>> ________________________________ >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> >>> >>> Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and >>> actively working on: >>> >>> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >>> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >>> 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. >>> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >>> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. >>> 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. >>> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. >>> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. >>> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a >>> certain point. >>> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >>> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >>> 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >>> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >>> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> >>>> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the editing >>>> and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work with >>>> them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible get >>>> addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and are >>>> encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread already, >>>> please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the >>>> problem you just described when I get to work. >>>> One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in >>>> making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will >>>> probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >>>>> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting >>>>> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >>>>> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at >>>>> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in >>>>> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command >>>>> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >>>>> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options >>>>> aren't available. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>>>>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>>>>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, >>>>>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I >>>>>> can edit as I would usually do >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>>>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>>>> Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that >>>>>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As >>>>>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>>>>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>>>>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go >>>>>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also >>>>>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do >>>>>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these >>>>>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>>>>> comment I have written to edit it. >>>>>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I >>>>>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >>>>>>> Bajaj >>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >; tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >>>>>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>>>>> changes >>>>>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>>>>> general >>>>>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>>>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >>>>>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going >>>>>>> up a >>>>>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. >>>>>>> All >>>>>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>>>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>>>>> navigate >>>>>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility >>>>>>> team >>>>>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>>>>> wholeheartedly >>>>>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>>>> Scott, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>>>>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>>>>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>>>>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>>>>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>>>>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>>>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>>>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>>>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' > >>>>>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>>>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>>>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>>>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, > >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>>>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>>>>> traffic >>>>>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>>>>> announce a >>>>>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>>>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>>>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>>>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>>>>> om >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com From NSingh at cov.com Fri Apr 12 23:00:47 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 23:00:47 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <56845BCB-CECB-45F3-837F-8E0D983A924A@gmail.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <101c4b7ab97c4a4bab3bd93ce32de278@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <8F230CE8-6D55-4B2D-8B1B-4425B7308942@gmail.com> <56845BCB-CECB-45F3-837F-8E0D983A924A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0619d3d6af9f47d6ab30e5e1edda9573@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> I am running the second most recent version and plan to upgrade in a few weeks when I receive a new laptop from IT. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 6:55 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shannon Dillon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes I am definitely running the most recent version of jaws. Since it’s the first thing freedom scientific asks whenever you call Technical Support, I make sure to keep mine updated. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 12:27 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > Are people who are still having this problem running the latest version of Jaws? The last update largely fixed this for me. By problem I mean Jaws reading both old and revised text. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 12, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I think that is one of the fundamental issues. It is intensely difficult to differentiate between old and new text, not to mention when there is an entire rainbow of revisions from multiple editors and co-counsel. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 1:01 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Shannon Dillon >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes >> >> When I am trying to read revisions in track changes, I also have difficulty distinguishing which text has been deleted and which has been added. It jumbles all the words together and I can’t tell what was deleted or added. Or does someone have a workaround for that? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up at the end, and I can read them that way. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Angela Matney >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> >>> >>> Laura, >>> >>> I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the virtual viewer as well. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>> ________________________________ >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> >>> >>> Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and >>> actively working on: >>> >>> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >>> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >>> 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. >>> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >>> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, comments. >>> 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment bubbles. >>> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. >>> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. >>> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a >>> certain point. >>> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >>> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >>> 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >>> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >>> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> >>>> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the editing >>>> and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work with >>>> them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible get >>>> addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and are >>>> encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread already, >>>> please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create the >>>> problem you just described when I get to work. >>>> One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in >>>> making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will >>>> probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >>>>> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then pasting >>>>> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >>>>> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but at >>>>> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while I'm in >>>>> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste command >>>>> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >>>>> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu options >>>>> aren't available. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>>>>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>>>>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment pane, >>>>>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, but I >>>>>> can edit as I would usually do >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>>>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>>>> Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that >>>>>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As >>>>>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>>>>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>>>>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go >>>>>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also >>>>>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do >>>>>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of these >>>>>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>>>>> comment I have written to edit it. >>>>>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I >>>>>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul >>>>>>> Bajaj >>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >; tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom >>>>>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>>>>> changes >>>>>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>>>>> general >>>>>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>>>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last >>>>>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going >>>>>>> up a >>>>>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. >>>>>>> All >>>>>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>>>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>>>>> navigate >>>>>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility >>>>>>> team >>>>>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>>>>> wholeheartedly >>>>>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>>>> Scott, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original >>>>>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This didn't >>>>>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, Windows >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. Can >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user >>>>>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer >>>>>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file >>>>>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest >>>>>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of >>>>>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very >>>>>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' > >>>>>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as >>>>>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round >>>>>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us >>>>>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, > >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in >>>>>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>>>>> traffic >>>>>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>>>>> announce a >>>>>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to >>>>>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying >>>>>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying >>>>>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>>>>> om >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Sat Apr 13 00:51:54 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 20:51:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <0619d3d6af9f47d6ab30e5e1edda9573@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <101c4b7ab97c4a4bab3bd93ce32de278@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <8F230CE8-6D55-4B2D-8B1B-4425B7308942@gmail.com> <56845BCB-CECB-45F3-837F-8E0D983A924A@gmail.com> <0619d3d6af9f47d6ab30e5e1edda9573@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: That's so strange, Shannon. Mine still does it sporadically, but it's eons better than it was before this last patch. On 4/12/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > I am running the second most recent version and plan to upgrade in a few > weeks when I receive a new laptop from IT. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon > Dillon via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 6:55 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Shannon Dillon > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track > Changes > > I am definitely running the most recent version of jaws. Since it’s the > first thing freedom scientific asks whenever you call Technical Support, I > make sure to keep mine updated. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 12, 2019, at 12:27 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Are people who are still having this problem running the latest version of >> Jaws? The last update largely fixed this for me. By problem I mean Jaws >> reading both old and revised text. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I think that is one of the fundamental issues. It is intensely difficult >>> to differentiate between old and new text, not to mention when there is >>> an entire rainbow of revisions from multiple editors and co-counsel. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 1:01 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>> Changes >>> >>> When I am trying to read revisions in track changes, I also have >>> difficulty distinguishing which text has been deleted and which has been >>> added. It jumbles all the words together and I can’t tell what was >>> deleted or added. Or does someone have a workaround for that? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long >>>> comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual >>>> viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have >>>> started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up >>>> at the end, and I can read them that way. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela Matney >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Angela Matney >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>> Changes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the >>>> virtual viewer as well. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the >>>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, >>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or >>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments >>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >>>> BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>> Changes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and >>>> actively working on: >>>> >>>> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >>>> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >>>> 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. >>>> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >>>> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, >>>> comments. >>>> 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment >>>> bubbles. >>>> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. >>>> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing >>>> footnotes. >>>> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a >>>> certain point. >>>> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >>>> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >>>> 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >>>> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >>>> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the >>>>> editing >>>>> and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work >>>>> with >>>>> them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible >>>>> get >>>>> addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and >>>>> are >>>>> encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread >>>>> already, >>>>> please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create >>>>> the >>>>> problem you just described when I get to work. >>>>> One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in >>>>> making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will >>>>> probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >>>>>> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then >>>>>> pasting >>>>>> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >>>>>> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but >>>>>> at >>>>>> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while >>>>>> I'm in >>>>>> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste >>>>>> command >>>>>> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >>>>>> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu >>>>>> options >>>>>> aren't available. >>>>>> >>>>>> Angie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>>>>>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>>>>>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment >>>>>>> pane, >>>>>>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, >>>>>>> but I >>>>>>> can edit as I would usually do >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Shannon >>>>>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and >>>>>>> Track >>>>>>> Changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select >>>>>>> words. As >>>>>>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>>>>>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>>>>>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself >>>>>>> and go >>>>>>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>>>>>> comment I have written to edit it. >>>>>>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure >>>>>>> how I >>>>>>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>> Bajaj >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>>> >; >>>>>>>> tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is >>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, >>>>>>>> Freedom >>>>>>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic >>>>>>>> functioning >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there >>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. >>>>>>>> So I >>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues >>>>>>>> resolved if >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>>>>>> general >>>>>>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very >>>>>>>> difficult >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>>>>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the >>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try >>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>> up a >>>>>>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise >>>>>>>> fashion. >>>>>>>> All >>>>>>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>>>>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>>>>>> navigate >>>>>>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they >>>>>>>> attributed >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe >>>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>>> team >>>>>>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue >>>>>>>> seriously, >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>>>>>> wholeheartedly >>>>>>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of >>>>>>>> supplying >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> Scott, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>>>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the >>>>>>>>> original >>>>>>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This >>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, >>>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>>>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. >>>>>>>>> Can >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>>>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the >>>>>>>>> user >>>>>>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>>>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>>>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>>>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>>>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably >>>>>>>>> closer >>>>>>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from >>>>>>>>> footnotes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a >>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>>>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great >>>>>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the >>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind >>>>>>>>>> Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more >>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every >>>>>>>>>> round >>>>>>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be >>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give >>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our >>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>>>>>> traffic >>>>>>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>>>>>> announce a >>>>>>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not >>>>>>>>>> displaying >>>>>>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are >>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw >>>> mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From sai at fiatfiendum.org Mon Apr 15 10:58:52 2019 From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:58:52 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] Navigating Sans Braille Signage In-Reply-To: <62A76936-A3AD-42A6-A170-09A091A6DB2C@gmail.com> References: <4b26e668f77645539fd1fd5e993f5d7d@CBIvEX04eUS.cov.com> <62A76936-A3AD-42A6-A170-09A091A6DB2C@gmail.com> Message-ID: In my experience, braille signage has been the exception, not the norm, so I'm not really sure how to answer your question that isn't just reiterating general O&M techniques. However, I'd mention a few things I've found helpful in a place I'll be frequently: 1. ADA stuff Especially if the building is newish, you could get HR to require Braille signage be added, as an ADA issue. You might also be able to get them to make you a tactile version of the building map. Those are (I think) mandatory in visual form for fire safety - nearly every fire exit has one - so all they need to do is pass that to a tactile map making company. Lastly, you could try asking for non-Braille orientation points, like adding wind chimes with distinct sounds, or texturally distinct things on walls & floors at key points. That could be an aesthetic plus for the sighted people, depending on the office aesthetic. They'll never think to propose it themselves, since it just wouldn't occur to them as a orientation tool. (I don't really know this side of ADA law, so if someone reading this does, it'd be nice to know what could be compelled, separately from the "asking nicely" approach.) 2. I try to get a *full* tour of the facility, in an order that works well for connecting my mental map - e.g. going in full circles from outside in, and insisting on following the full perimeter, not just the normal path that a sighted guide would take. Includes every single door or other stable object, not just what they think is relevant to you. That includes "dead ends", which often have good orientation features that they're totally unaware of. Plus you'll probably get into one sooner or later, so it's good to recognize them. This can take a whole day to itself, but it's extremely useful for reorienting if you get lost and having at least a workable, if not necessarily optimal, route between any two points. Knowing the door numbering patterns is helpful. 3. Add your own Braille signage without asking permission. I have a cheap label maker from RNIB - a Reizen RL-350. Handheld, cheap, fast, dead simple to use sighted or blind, goes on clear tape that you can put over sighted signage or on walls without interfering with them, and has a nice crisp output (just be sure to squeeze hard when using it). I also have Tacti-Mark (black). I've used that to e.g. add labels to touch based door lock keypads, which are a huge pain to use otherwise. You can probably get coworkers to help with such "guerilla improvements", but of course depends on your culture etc. Hope that helps, Sai On Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 00:48 Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > Hello, > > The hardest part is getting around the very first time. I tend to have > someone go through with me that first time, and as we walk, I ask the room > numbers in each hall. When the building was being made, someone, somewhere > gave it room numbers, even if they were never attached to the doors. Each > floor will have a number; 400, 500, 600, and so on. Each hall will have a > number; the 420 hallway, the 430 hallway, etc. This can be disrupted with > things like conference rooms, but you can still learn that with time. > Finally, you can acoustically and tactilely landmark the door and the space > around the door. Maybe it's near the end of the hall. Maybe it has a latch > on the left, but is 6 inches from one with a latch on the right. Perhaps > there's a nearby hallway intersection, or water fountain, or copy machine > which always seems to be in use. > > Basically, sighted people learn to navigate spaces like that using > landmarking, and the very first time, they're just as blind as we are... > but conference room windows do help 😉 > > Feel free to reach out with more questions. My first life was as a totally > blind mobility specialist. > > Warmth, > Sanho > > > > On Apr 10, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > > > > Anyone have tips for navigating in a work place with no Braille signage, > i.e. finding particular offices or conference rooms? I figure it is like > navigating when you are outside where there is no Braille either. I thought > I would ask for additional ideas though. > > > > Thanks, > > Nikki > > > > > > Nandini Singh > > > > Covington & Burling LLP > > One CityCenter, 850 Tenth Street, NW > > Washington, DC 20001-4956 > > T +1 202 662 5113 | nsingh at cov.com > > www.cov.com > > > > This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is > confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, > please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has > been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your > system. Thank you for your cooperation. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BlindLaw mailing list > > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sai%40fiatfiendum.org > From sai at fiatfiendum.org Mon Apr 15 11:16:17 2019 From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 12:16:17 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] Navigating Sans Braille Signage In-Reply-To: References: <4b26e668f77645539fd1fd5e993f5d7d@CBIvEX04eUS.cov.com> <62A76936-A3AD-42A6-A170-09A091A6DB2C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh, one more: almost all carpets have a nap. Its easier to brush them one way than the other. The kind installed in offices is usually from a giant roll, rather than patches of small squares, and anyway it looks visually off if not aligned. So, try feeling the carpets. First with your hand, then shoes / cane (with a bit of scraping pressure). It's a bit subtle, but if you're specifically looking for it, you can tell. Add that to your mental map (e.g. "hallway carpet is smooth towards north and east" or "main conference room carpet is rough towards the door") and you have a crude but usable tool for absolute orientation. Personally that's the thing I'm worst at (knowing which way I'm facing), so I find it helpful. And nobody will notice you surreptitiously scraping the carpet with your shoe tip, because carpet nap just isn't a thing they'll have ever noticed. Similarly for other orientation cues. Maybe walls curve, or you can hear the reception desk, or the colder breeze from the exit. On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 11:58 Sai wrote: > In my experience, braille signage has been the exception, not the norm, so > I'm not really sure how to answer your question that isn't just reiterating > general O&M techniques. > > However, I'd mention a few things I've found helpful in a place I'll be > frequently: > > 1. ADA stuff > > Especially if the building is newish, you could get HR to require Braille > signage be added, as an ADA issue. > > You might also be able to get them to make you a tactile version of the > building map. Those are (I think) mandatory in visual form for fire safety > - nearly every fire exit has one - so all they need to do is pass that to a > tactile map making company. > > Lastly, you could try asking for non-Braille orientation points, like > adding wind chimes with distinct sounds, or texturally distinct things on > walls & floors at key points. > > That could be an aesthetic plus for the sighted people, depending on the > office aesthetic. They'll never think to propose it themselves, since it > just wouldn't occur to them as a orientation tool. > > > (I don't really know this side of ADA law, so if someone reading this > does, it'd be nice to know what could be compelled, separately from the > "asking nicely" approach.) > > > 2. I try to get a *full* tour of the facility, in an order that works well > for connecting my mental map - e.g. going in full circles from outside in, > and insisting on following the full perimeter, not just the normal path > that a sighted guide would take. Includes every single door or other stable > object, not just what they think is relevant to you. > > That includes "dead ends", which often have good orientation features that > they're totally unaware of. Plus you'll probably get into one sooner or > later, so it's good to recognize them. > > This can take a whole day to itself, but it's extremely useful for > reorienting if you get lost and having at least a workable, if not > necessarily optimal, route between any two points. Knowing the door > numbering patterns is helpful. > > > 3. Add your own Braille signage without asking permission. > > I have a cheap label maker from RNIB - a Reizen RL-350. Handheld, cheap, > fast, dead simple to use sighted or blind, goes on clear tape that you can > put over sighted signage or on walls without interfering with them, and has > a nice crisp output (just be sure to squeeze hard when using it). > > I also have Tacti-Mark (black). I've used that to e.g. add labels to touch > based door lock keypads, which are a huge pain to use otherwise. > > You can probably get coworkers to help with such "guerilla improvements", > but of course depends on your culture etc. > > > Hope that helps, > Sai > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 00:48 Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> The hardest part is getting around the very first time. I tend to have >> someone go through with me that first time, and as we walk, I ask the room >> numbers in each hall. When the building was being made, someone, somewhere >> gave it room numbers, even if they were never attached to the doors. Each >> floor will have a number; 400, 500, 600, and so on. Each hall will have a >> number; the 420 hallway, the 430 hallway, etc. This can be disrupted with >> things like conference rooms, but you can still learn that with time. >> Finally, you can acoustically and tactilely landmark the door and the space >> around the door. Maybe it's near the end of the hall. Maybe it has a latch >> on the left, but is 6 inches from one with a latch on the right. Perhaps >> there's a nearby hallway intersection, or water fountain, or copy machine >> which always seems to be in use. >> >> Basically, sighted people learn to navigate spaces like that using >> landmarking, and the very first time, they're just as blind as we are... >> but conference room windows do help 😉 >> >> Feel free to reach out with more questions. My first life was as a >> totally blind mobility specialist. >> >> Warmth, >> Sanho >> >> >> > On Apr 10, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw < >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> > >> > Anyone have tips for navigating in a work place with no Braille >> signage, i.e. finding particular offices or conference rooms? I figure it >> is like navigating when you are outside where there is no Braille either. I >> thought I would ask for additional ideas though. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Nikki >> > >> > >> > Nandini Singh >> > >> > Covington & Burling LLP >> > One CityCenter, 850 Tenth Street, NW >> > Washington, DC 20001-4956 >> > T +1 202 662 5113 | nsingh at cov.com >> > www.cov.com >> > >> > This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is >> confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, >> please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has >> been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your >> system. Thank you for your cooperation. >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > BlindLaw mailing list >> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sai%40fiatfiendum.org >> > From shannonldillon at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 15:54:27 2019 From: shannonldillon at gmail.com (Shannon Dillon) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 08:54:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <101c4b7ab97c4a4bab3bd93ce32de278@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <8F230CE8-6D55-4B2D-8B1B-4425B7308942@gmail.com> <56845BCB-CECB-45F3-837F-8E0D983A924A@gmail.com> <0619d3d6af9f47d6ab30e5e1edda9573@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: <322612E2-B2C4-4035-A3DC-E936E0B41828@gmail.com> I will check again today. I also turned on the voice changes to help identify changes in font when I’m editing. Before I was just trying to use the braille display and insert F. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 5:51 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > That's so strange, Shannon. Mine still does it sporadically, but it's > eons better than it was before this last patch. > >> On 4/12/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >> I am running the second most recent version and plan to upgrade in a few >> weeks when I receive a new laptop from IT. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >> Dillon via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 6:55 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Shannon Dillon >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >> Changes >> >> I am definitely running the most recent version of jaws. Since it’s the >> first thing freedom scientific asks whenever you call Technical Support, I >> make sure to keep mine updated. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 12:27 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Are people who are still having this problem running the latest version of >>> Jaws? The last update largely fixed this for me. By problem I mean Jaws >>> reading both old and revised text. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think that is one of the fundamental issues. It is intensely difficult >>>> to differentiate between old and new text, not to mention when there is >>>> an entire rainbow of revisions from multiple editors and co-counsel. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 1:01 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>> Changes >>>> >>>> When I am trying to read revisions in track changes, I also have >>>> difficulty distinguishing which text has been deleted and which has been >>>> added. It jumbles all the words together and I can’t tell what was >>>> deleted or added. Or does someone have a workaround for that? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long >>>>> comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual >>>>> viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have >>>>> started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up >>>>> at the end, and I can read them that way. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela Matney >>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Angela Matney >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>>> Changes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Laura, >>>>> >>>>> I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the >>>>> virtual viewer as well. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the >>>>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, >>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or >>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments >>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>>> Changes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and >>>>> actively working on: >>>>> >>>>> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >>>>> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >>>>> 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. >>>>> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >>>>> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, >>>>> comments. >>>>> 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment >>>>> bubbles. >>>>> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. >>>>> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing >>>>> footnotes. >>>>> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a >>>>> certain point. >>>>> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >>>>> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >>>>> 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >>>>> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >>>>> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the >>>>>> editing >>>>>> and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work >>>>>> with >>>>>> them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible >>>>>> get >>>>>> addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and >>>>>> are >>>>>> encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread >>>>>> already, >>>>>> please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create >>>>>> the >>>>>> problem you just described when I get to work. >>>>>> One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in >>>>>> making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will >>>>>> probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >>>>>>> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then >>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >>>>>>> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while >>>>>>> I'm in >>>>>>> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste >>>>>>> command >>>>>>> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >>>>>>> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu >>>>>>> options >>>>>>> aren't available. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>>>>>>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>>>>>>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment >>>>>>>> pane, >>>>>>>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, >>>>>>>> but I >>>>>>>> can edit as I would usually do >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Shannon >>>>>>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and >>>>>>>> Track >>>>>>>> Changes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select >>>>>>>> words. As >>>>>>>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>>>>>>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>>>>>>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself >>>>>>>> and go >>>>>>>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>>>>>>> comment I have written to edit it. >>>>>>>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure >>>>>>>> how I >>>>>>>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>>> Bajaj >>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>>>> >; >>>>>>>>> tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is >>>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, >>>>>>>>> Freedom >>>>>>>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic >>>>>>>>> functioning >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. >>>>>>>>> So I >>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues >>>>>>>>> resolved if >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>>>>>>> general >>>>>>>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very >>>>>>>>> difficult >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>>>>>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the >>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try >>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>> up a >>>>>>>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise >>>>>>>>> fashion. >>>>>>>>> All >>>>>>>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>>>>>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>>>>>>> navigate >>>>>>>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they >>>>>>>>> attributed >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe >>>>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>>>> team >>>>>>>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue >>>>>>>>> seriously, >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>>>>>>> wholeheartedly >>>>>>>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of >>>>>>>>> supplying >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Scott, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>>>>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people >>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the >>>>>>>>>> original >>>>>>>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This >>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, >>>>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>>>>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. >>>>>>>>>> Can >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>>>>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the >>>>>>>>>> user >>>>>>>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>>>>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>>>>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>>>>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>>>>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably >>>>>>>>>> closer >>>>>>>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from >>>>>>>>>> footnotes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a >>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>>>>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great >>>>>>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>>>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the >>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind >>>>>>>>>>> Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>>>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>>>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>>>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more >>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every >>>>>>>>>>> round >>>>>>>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>>>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be >>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give >>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our >>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>> traffic >>>>>>>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>>>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>>>>>>> announce a >>>>>>>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>>>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>>>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>>>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not >>>>>>>>>>> displaying >>>>>>>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>>>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>>>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>>>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are >>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>>>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com From shannonldillon at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 22:55:14 2019 From: shannonldillon at gmail.com (Shannon Dillon) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 15:55:14 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <032201d49b16$5ff27ce0$1fd776a0$@gmail.com> <47BAAD1E-50ED-48EA-98FD-B3DF74B82DBC@gmail.com> <248fa5ec440e43bab22e733ecc9e6ee0@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <10416DEC-D60D-4A01-8BDA-5A36611CA600@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F01C6@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539245F021F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <101c4b7ab97c4a4bab3bd93ce32de278@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> <8F230CE8-6D55-4B2D-8B1B-4425B7308942@gmail.com> <56845BCB-CECB-45F3-837F-8E0D983A924A@gmail.com> <0619d3d6af9f47d6ab30e5e1edda9573@CBIvEX02eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: <034D8DBD-7B9C-4B75-82F1-CAC834658005@gmail.com> I tried again with track changes today. I noticed that if I open a document and begin trying to read revisions, Jaws may say what has been deleted but I cannot arrow over the character or word that has been deleted to confirm what it is. So if I can’t understand what JAWS is saying, I can’t confirm it. But if I use windows+semicolon to li/ revisions first, then the deleted and inserted characters or words usually show up on the Braille display so I can arrow through to see exactly what was deleted and what was inserted. But there were a couple of times JAWS said there were revisions on the line and I could not find them. Does that sound like what others are experiencing? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2019, at 5:51 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > That's so strange, Shannon. Mine still does it sporadically, but it's > eons better than it was before this last patch. > >> On 4/12/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >> I am running the second most recent version and plan to upgrade in a few >> weeks when I receive a new laptop from IT. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >> Dillon via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 6:55 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Shannon Dillon >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >> Changes >> >> I am definitely running the most recent version of jaws. Since it’s the >> first thing freedom scientific asks whenever you call Technical Support, I >> make sure to keep mine updated. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 12:27 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Are people who are still having this problem running the latest version of >>> Jaws? The last update largely fixed this for me. By problem I mean Jaws >>> reading both old and revised text. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think that is one of the fundamental issues. It is intensely difficult >>>> to differentiate between old and new text, not to mention when there is >>>> an entire rainbow of revisions from multiple editors and co-counsel. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 1:01 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>> Changes >>>> >>>> When I am trying to read revisions in track changes, I also have >>>> difficulty distinguishing which text has been deleted and which has been >>>> added. It jumbles all the words together and I can’t tell what was >>>> deleted or added. Or does someone have a workaround for that? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Laura, my apologies. I was reading too fast. The issue I have with long >>>>> comments and revisions is not the one described in #8. In the virtual >>>>> viewer, JAWS will stop reading after a while. For comments, I have >>>>> started creating plain-text versions of documents. The comments show up >>>>> at the end, and I can read them that way. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Angela Matney >>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:03 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Angela Matney >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>>> Changes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Laura, >>>>> >>>>> I have the problem described in #8 with comments and revisions in the >>>>> virtual viewer as well. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the >>>>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, >>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or >>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments >>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 9:24 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track >>>>> Changes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here are the issues about which VFO and Microsoft are aware and >>>>> actively working on: >>>>> >>>>> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >>>>> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >>>>> 2. Jaws occasionally reading both the old and the revised text. >>>>> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >>>>> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, >>>>> comments. >>>>> 5. Inability to select text in footnotes, headers and footers, comment >>>>> bubbles. >>>>> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 in footnotes on a Braille display. >>>>> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing >>>>> footnotes. >>>>> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop reading after a >>>>> certain point. >>>>> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >>>>> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >>>>> 10. Call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >>>>> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >>>>> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> As I've said, the folks from VFO and Microsoft are now aware of the >>>>>> editing >>>>>> and sluggishness problems and have reproduced them. I am going to work >>>>>> with >>>>>> them on the beta test to make sure as many of these issues as possible >>>>>> get >>>>>> addressed in the next release. If you have the latest build of Jaws and >>>>>> are >>>>>> encountering problems that we have not discussed in this thread >>>>>> already, >>>>>> please let me know as soon as possible. Angie, I'll try to re-create >>>>>> the >>>>>> problem you just described when I get to work. >>>>>> One thing I'll say is that, unsurprisingly, Microsoft is interested in >>>>>> making their fixes beginning with the latest build. I think we will >>>>>> probably need to be prepared to advocate for upgrades at our jobs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 8:42 AM, Angie Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have the same issues (or at least, most of them) with comments and >>>>>>> footnotes. I have taken to composing comments in Notepad and then >>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>> them in. For some reason, if I have the document set to "print" view, >>>>>>> pasting doesn't seem to work. This hasn't always been an issue, but >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> least with the last update of JAWS, if I try to add a comment while >>>>>>> I'm in >>>>>>> print view, the title bar will say "Revisions pane," the paste >>>>>>> command >>>>>>> will not work, and I end up with an empty comment in my document. >>>>>>> Sometimes, I can edit and delete comments; sometimes, these menu >>>>>>> options >>>>>>> aren't available. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 11, 2019, at 10:01 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have not experienced this. I can enter, edit, and remove comments >>>>>>>> written by myself and by colleagues. I rely on the next and previous >>>>>>>> buttons on the menu to navigate among comments. Once in the comment >>>>>>>> pane, >>>>>>>> I do notice that JAWS' performance seems inexplicably to slow down, >>>>>>>> but I >>>>>>>> can edit as I would usually do >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Shannon >>>>>>>> Dillon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon Dillon >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and >>>>>>>> Track >>>>>>>> Changes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> it hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select >>>>>>>> words. As >>>>>>>> I press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or >>>>>>>> character is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a >>>>>>>> block of text been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself >>>>>>>> and go >>>>>>>> through to delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> has a problem getting into an already written comment to edit it. And >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> you have problems deleting comments? I have problems with both of >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> things. I can create a new comment. But I am an able to get into a >>>>>>>> comment I have written to edit it. >>>>>>>> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure >>>>>>>> how I >>>>>>>> was able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke. >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>>> Bajaj >>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>>>> >; >>>>>>>>> tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is >>>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, >>>>>>>>> Freedom >>>>>>>>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic >>>>>>>>> functioning >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. >>>>>>>>> So I >>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues >>>>>>>>> resolved if >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track >>>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>>> impacts a critical mass of blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the >>>>>>>>> general >>>>>>>>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very >>>>>>>>> difficult >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> edit them or to ascertain their number. >>>>>>>>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the >>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when >>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try >>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>> up a >>>>>>>>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise >>>>>>>>> fashion. >>>>>>>>> All >>>>>>>>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or >>>>>>>>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or >>>>>>>>> navigate >>>>>>>>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they >>>>>>>>> attributed >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe >>>>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>>>> team >>>>>>>>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue >>>>>>>>> seriously, >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I >>>>>>>>> wholeheartedly >>>>>>>>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of >>>>>>>>> supplying >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> sample document with many revisions in it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Scott, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I appreciate this so much. Please let me know if you'd like any >>>>>>>>>> assistance. Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people >>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the >>>>>>>>>> original >>>>>>>>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document? This >>>>>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>>>>> used to happen to me, but now it does. I'm using Office 2016, >>>>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws. Additionally, I find that Jaws >>>>>>>>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes. >>>>>>>>>> Can >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> others confirm? This has the end result that relying on the file's >>>>>>>>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the >>>>>>>>>> user >>>>>>>>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome >>>>>>>>>> character-by-character analysis. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file. I tried >>>>>>>>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out >>>>>>>>>> fewer revisions. The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page >>>>>>>>>> document. It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably >>>>>>>>>> closer >>>>>>>>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from >>>>>>>>>> footnotes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a >>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with. Perhaps this >>>>>>>>>> could accompany the NABL letter. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great >>>>>>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write >>>>>>>>>>> MicroSoft. Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the >>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>> best of this holiday season. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Tim Elder >>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind >>>>>>>>>>> Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Understood. I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if >>>>>>>>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of >>>>>>>>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days. I've also been slowly learning >>>>>>>>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more >>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every >>>>>>>>>>> round >>>>>>>>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my >>>>>>>>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be >>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give >>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our >>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an >>>>>>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>> traffic >>>>>>>>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this >>>>>>>>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions. >>>>>>>>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will >>>>>>>>>>>> announce a >>>>>>>>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate. This is >>>>>>>>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect. now it gives the >>>>>>>>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every >>>>>>>>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not >>>>>>>>>>> displaying >>>>>>>>>>> that you haven't reviewed. note that though this isn't a terrible >>>>>>>>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft >>>>>>>>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving >>>>>>>>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are >>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft. So be >>>>>>>>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access." >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmai >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/deepa.goraya%40gmail.c >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> om >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Thu Apr 18 14:29:47 2019 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody Davis) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 10:29:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Lawyers Division at Annual Convention Message-ID: <2A4E3196-DB33-4F4A-8209-A8DD704D7391@gmail.com> All, Does anyone have information on the Blind Lawyers Division meeting at national convention this year? I am wondering if topics have been settled and if there is potential for CLE credit. Respectfully, Cody J. Davis, J.D., M.P.A. Wallace Public Service Fellow Campbell University Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law 225 Hillsborough St., Room 302C Raleigh, NC 27603 Phone: (919) 865-4470 Fax: (919) 865-5885 Cell: (919) 349-9799 Email: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/codyjdavisesq From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Thu Apr 18 14:36:08 2019 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody Davis) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 10:36:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Professional Associations for Persons with Dsiabilities Message-ID: All, Is anyone on this list involved in the Washington Attorney’s with Disabilities Association? If so, can you contact me off list? Does anyone know of any professional associations for lawyers with disabilities in general? It seems that most groups I find are focused on disability advocacy for the general population. I’m wondering if there are any groups that support and advocate for lawyers with disabilities within the profession, and state and local bars. Cody J. Davis, J.D., M.P.A. Wallace Public Service Fellow Campbell University Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law 225 Hillsborough St., Room 302C Raleigh, NC 27603 Phone: (919) 865-4470 Fax: (919) 865-5885 Cell: (919) 349-9799 Email: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/codyjdavisesq From ttomasi at driowa.org Thu Apr 18 15:34:56 2019 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:34:56 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Professional Associations for Persons with Disabilities Message-ID: This appears to be a fairly comprehensive list which includes our own National Association of Blind Lawyers: https://www.brycelegal.com/blog/2016/03/top-resources-for-lawyers-and-law-students-with-disabilities Tai Tomasi, J.D. Pronouns: she/her/hers Staff Attorney 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 Tel: 515-278-2502 x15; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org http://driowa.org/ Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Cody Davis via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 9:36 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Cody Davis Subject: [blindlaw] Professional Associations for Persons with Dsiabilities All, Is anyone on this list involved in the Washington Attorney’s with Disabilities Association? If so, can you contact me off list? Does anyone know of any professional associations for lawyers with disabilities in general? It seems that most groups I find are focused on disability advocacy for the general population. I’m wondering if there are any groups that support and advocate for lawyers with disabilities within the profession, and state and local bars. Cody J. Davis, J.D., M.P.A. Wallace Public Service Fellow Campbell University Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law 225 Hillsborough St., Room 302C Raleigh, NC 27603 Phone: (919) 865-4470 Fax: (919) 865-5885 Cell: (919) 349-9799 Email: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/codyjdavisesq _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Thu Apr 18 15:54:54 2019 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody Davis) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 11:54:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Professional Associations for Persons with Disabilities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0EE3D297-1973-4A54-A43B-75658AFE5D03@gmail.com> Thank you. There are a couple of groups on here I have not come across yet. Cody J. Davis, J.D., M.P.A. Wallace Public Service Fellow Campbell University Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law 225 Hillsborough St., Room 302C Raleigh, NC 27603 Phone: (919) 865-4470 Fax: (919) 865-5885 Cell: (919) 349-9799 Email: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/codyjdavisesq > On Apr 18, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw wrote: > > This appears to be a fairly comprehensive list which includes our own National Association of Blind Lawyers: > > https://www.brycelegal.com/blog/2016/03/top-resources-for-lawyers-and-law-students-with-disabilities > > > Tai Tomasi, J.D. > Pronouns: she/her/hers > Staff Attorney > > > > 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300 > Des Moines, Iowa 50309 > Tel: 515-278-2502 x15; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502 > FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711 > E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org > http://driowa.org/ > > Our Mission: To defend and promote the human and legal rights of Iowans with disabilities > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any drives or storage media and destroy any printouts. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Cody Davis via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 9:36 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Cody Davis > Subject: [blindlaw] Professional Associations for Persons with Dsiabilities > > All, > > Is anyone on this list involved in the Washington Attorney’s with Disabilities Association? If so, can you contact me off list? > > Does anyone know of any professional associations for lawyers with disabilities in general? It seems that most groups I find are focused on disability advocacy for the general population. I’m wondering if there are any groups that support and advocate for lawyers with disabilities within the profession, and state and local bars. > Cody J. Davis, J.D., M.P.A. > Wallace Public Service Fellow > Campbell University Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law > 225 Hillsborough St., Room 302C > Raleigh, NC 27603 > Phone: (919) 865-4470 > Fax: (919) 865-5885 > Cell: (919) 349-9799 > Email: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com > LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/codyjdavisesq > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Apr 18 20:12:06 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 20:12:06 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Professional Associations for Persons with Dsiabilities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I am on the board of the Washington Attorneys with Disabilities Association. You can call me at work at (206) 607-1632. Noel Nightingale -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody Davis via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 7:36 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Cody Davis Subject: [blindlaw] Professional Associations for Persons with Dsiabilities All, Is anyone on this list involved in the Washington Attorney’s with Disabilities Association? If so, can you contact me off list? Does anyone know of any professional associations for lawyers with disabilities in general? It seems that most groups I find are focused on disability advocacy for the general population. I’m wondering if there are any groups that support and advocate for lawyers with disabilities within the profession, and state and local bars. Cody J. Davis, J.D., M.P.A. Wallace Public Service Fellow Campbell University Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law 225 Hillsborough St., Room 302C Raleigh, NC 27603 Phone: (919) 865-4470 Fax: (919) 865-5885 Cell: (919) 349-9799 Email: LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/codyjdavisesq _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Apr 18 20:13:42 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 20:13:42 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Lawyers Division at Annual Convention In-Reply-To: <2A4E3196-DB33-4F4A-8209-A8DD704D7391@gmail.com> References: <2A4E3196-DB33-4F4A-8209-A8DD704D7391@gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't have the agenda for you about the meeting of the National Association of Blind Lawyers that will be held during the convention of the National Federation of the Blind. However, under Scott LaBarr's leadership, we have always offered continuing legal education credit. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cody Davis via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 7:30 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Cody Davis Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Lawyers Division at Annual Convention All, Does anyone have information on the Blind Lawyers Division meeting at national convention this year? I am wondering if topics have been settled and if there is potential for CLE credit. Respectfully, Cody J. Davis, J.D., M.P.A. Wallace Public Service Fellow Campbell University Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law 225 Hillsborough St., Room 302C Raleigh, NC 27603 Phone: (919) 865-4470 Fax: (919) 865-5885 Cell: (919) 349-9799 Email: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/codyjdavisesq _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Apr 19 13:23:07 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2019 07:23:07 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03d101d4f6b3$079485e0$16bd91a0$@labarrelaw.com> FYI From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 6:50 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Good morning, Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. The Department of Justice office places a high value on diversity of experiences and perspectives and encourages applications from all qualified men and women from all ethnic and racial backgrounds, veterans, LGBT individuals, and persons with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. Manage Your Email: If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. If you would like to update your contact information, please submit the following information: SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: Attorney Vacancies & Volunteer Legal Internships Environment and Natural Resources Division (ENRD) Job Title Assistant Section Chief State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated April 19, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Florida Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Florida Posted/ Updated April 18, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Job Title Attorney Advisor State Massachusetts Posted/ Updated April 18, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Iowa Job Title Assistant United States Attorney (Part-time) State Iowa Posted/ Updated April 18, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Attorney Advisor (International) / Resident Legal Advisor, Philippines State Posted/ Updated April 18, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Florida Job Title Assistant United States Attorney (Collateral Litigation) State Florida Posted/ Updated April 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Nevada Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Nevada Posted/ Updated April 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Illinois Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Illinois Posted/ Updated April 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Illinois Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Illinois Posted/ Updated April 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Kansas Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Kansas Posted/ Updated April 17, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Attorney Advisor (International)/ICHIP, Brazil State Posted/ Updated April 17, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Job Title Attorney Advisor State Pennsylvania Posted/ Updated April 16, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Florida Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Florida Posted/ Updated April 16, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Florida Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Florida Posted/ Updated April 16, 2019 Hiring Organization Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer - 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Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From NSingh at cov.com Mon Apr 22 23:17:47 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 23:17:47 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Chrome Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I am sorry for writing so often--many tech issues here. I decided to install Google Chrome and see if that is more stable in terms of keeping JAWS' place on the webpage after I bring an email or wordprocessor into focus and then return to the browser. It looks like it is. However, I am noticing something peculiar on Westlaw. After conducting a search and skimming a list of search results, I apparently cannot click on a given result to review the case or journal article. I tried clicking on the title of the item in addition to the excerpted text that the search highlights as a part of the result entry, but I cannot advance to the page with the full text of the case or article. This is so strange because this is not at all an issue on IE. As far as I can tell, JAWS seems confused as to whether the title is a link or a heading based on what I get when I perform an insert-F1. I also recall that a few of you are able to use Chrome and JAWS when working on Westlaw. I would be grateful if you could let me know if you are using some customizations to make JAWS behave more smoothly on Chrome or if you have additional ideas. For reference, I am using JAWS 2018 and a recent update to Chrome 73. Thanks, Nikki Nandini Singh Covington & Burling LLP One CityCenter, 850 Tenth Street, NW Washington, DC 20001-4956 T +1 202 662 5113 | nsingh at cov.com www.cov.com This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. From cannona at fireantproductions.com Mon Apr 22 23:36:13 2019 From: cannona at fireantproductions.com (Aaron Cannon) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:36:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Chrome In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Nikki. If no one else is able to help you, I may be able to write a small script that you can use inside Chrome that may fix this issue. No promises, but based on your description, it is likely. I will, however, need a copy of the page in question. However, before we try that, you should make sure the window is maximized, as that can occasionally cause issues when that is not done. To do that, press alt+space, then either press the down-arrow key until you hear "Maximize", then press enter, or after hitting CTRL+space, simply press the x key. Then go back and try to click on the link again. If that does not resolve it: 1. Visit the page in question. 2. Press F10 to open the Chrome Menu. 3. Arrow down to "More Tools" and press enter. 4. Press enter on "Save Page As". 5. A save dialog will open. Choose a location and a name, and in the "Save As Type" dropdown, choose the "HTML only" option. 6. Email me the resulting file at cannona at fireantproductions.com Best of luck. Aaron On 4/22/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I am sorry for writing so often--many tech issues here. I decided to install > Google Chrome and see if that is more stable in terms of keeping JAWS' place > on the webpage after I bring an email or wordprocessor into focus and then > return to the browser. It looks like it is. However, I am noticing something > peculiar on Westlaw. After conducting a search and skimming a list of search > results, I apparently cannot click on a given result to review the case or > journal article. I tried clicking on the title of the item in addition to > the excerpted text that the search highlights as a part of the result entry, > but I cannot advance to the page with the full text of the case or article. > This is so strange because this is not at all an issue on IE. As far as I > can tell, JAWS seems confused as to whether the title is a link or a heading > based on what I get when I perform an insert-F1. I also recall that a few of > you are able to use Chrome and JAWS when working on Westlaw. I would be > grateful if you could let me know if you are using some customizations to > make JAWS behave more smoothly on Chrome or if you have additional ideas. > For reference, I am using JAWS 2018 and a recent update to Chrome 73. > > Thanks, > Nikki > > > Nandini Singh > > Covington & Burling LLP > One CityCenter, 850 Tenth Street, NW > Washington, DC 20001-4956 > T +1 202 662 5113 | nsingh at cov.com > www.cov.com > > This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is > confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, > please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has > been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your > system. Thank you for your cooperation. > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cannona%40fireantproductions.com > From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Tue Apr 23 09:32:17 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:32:17 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: <01a101d4f168$d56c3bc0$8044b340$@sbgaal.com> Message-ID: Hi Laura, all Apologies, I'm late to this discussion but only reviewing emails now. I have this issue in word, in longer documents. Not an issue I've had in Outlook. If I can help at all with the list of queries for VFO/Microsoft or in testing etc. do let me know. Equally, if that's all in hand, all the better! Kind regards Ger On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > OK I'm adding spell check to the list. I think yall need to get together and > buy me a festivus pole. Haha. > > Thanks! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 12, 2019, at 3:55 PM, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> I find that if you tab around it will read it out. Not perfect but doable. >> >> >> >> Patti Chang Esq. >> Director of Outreach >> 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 >> (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org >> Cell: 773-307-6440 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends >> who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we >> work together to help blind people live the lives they want. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 2:49 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Shannon >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck >> >> yes >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Shannon Brady Geihsler >> >> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >> 1001 Main St., Suite 803 >> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >> Office: (806) 763-3999 >> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >> E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com >> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or >> attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any >> review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express >> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, >> please contact the sender and delete all copies. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura >> Wolk via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 8:37 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the >> problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as >> mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart >> spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to >> Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. >> >> Thanks! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg at sbgaal.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang at nfb.org >> >> Disclaimer >> >> The information contained in this communication from the sender is >> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others >> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby >> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in >> relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and >> may be unlawful. >> >> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been >> automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a >> Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for >> your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and >> compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Tue Apr 23 09:35:31 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:35:31 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello The Alt C and Alt I combinations still work for me. However, for some reason Ignore All and Change All do not work as accellerator key strokes - this is annoying. Kind regards Ger On 4/12/19, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw wrote: > > I find it far more problematic that the accelerator keys no longer work. I > used to be able to hit alt c and have it change a word. now I have to tab > around which takes more time. > > Dr Paul Harpur > BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia > (non-practicing) > Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt > Institute, SU, New York. > Senior Lecturer > > TC Beirne School of Law > The University of Queensland > Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia > > T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 > E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page > CRICOS code: 00025B > > > > > Scientia ac Labore > > This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the > addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of > Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any > transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is > prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and > notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do > not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chang, > Patti via BlindLaw > Sent: Saturday, 13 April 2019 5:55 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Chang, Patti > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck > > I find that if you tab around it will read it out. Not perfect but doable. > > > Patti Chang Esq. > Director of Outreach > 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 > (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org > Cell: 773-307-6440 > > > > > > > The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends > who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we work > together to help blind people live the lives they want. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon via > BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 2:49 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Shannon > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck > > yes > > Sincerely, > > Shannon Brady Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, Texas 79401 > Office:  (806) 763-3999 > Mobile:  (806) 781-9296 > Fax:  (806) 749-3752 > E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk > via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 8:37 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck > > Hi everyone, > > On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the problem > where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified as > mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then restart > spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to > Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. > > Thanks! > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg at sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang at nfb.org > > Disclaimer > > The information contained in this communication from the sender is > confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others > authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in > relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may > be unlawful. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been > automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a > Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for > your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and > compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Tue Apr 23 09:45:34 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:45:34 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> <00d401d4f0d9$7f639870$7e2ac950$@visi.com> Message-ID: Dear Laura Just a note to thank you and all those who have worked on this very much indeed. The tip you have shared for quick access keys seems useful, I will try it. Kind regards Ger for all your work on this On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > Sorry for the cross-post, but in case some folks are following one > thread and not another: > > VFO is planning on issuing a new release some time in the next month > to address as many of these concerns as possible. I will be working > with them on their Beta test to make sure they are actually addressed. > Microsoft will also be working on things from their end, but they will > primarily be implementing them in the latest build, so I anticipate > that we will need to advocate for upgrades to the latest version of > office as accommodations in our job. > > Here is the list of issues about which Vfo and Microsoft are aware. > Please let me know if anything that you are encountering is not on > this list. > > 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. > Also impacts the list tracked change feature. > 2. Jaws occasionally reads both the old and the revised text. > 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. > 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, > comments. > 5. Reliably being able to select text in footnotes, headers and > footers, comment bubbles. > 6. Always showing dots 7-8 on the display in footnotes. > 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. > 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop advancing after a > certain point. > 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather > than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. > 10. call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. > 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden > properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. > 12. General sluggishness/lagginess when navigating the ribbon. > > Thanks everyone! > > Laura > > > On 4/11/19, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw wrote: >> Laura, >> >> Perhaps you have already heard this elsewhere, but on a recent Podcast, >> Eric >> Damery made reference to some major changes to the process JAWS uses to >> track Word changes and revisions were being made, and I believe he said >> that >> they would likely be in the May release. Perhaps this will also help. >> >> The Quick Access Toolbar is very handy for tasks, I am glad it is helping >> in >> this situation. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 7:26 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >> >> Hi Josh, >> >> Hit alt+f, then t to get to options. Arrow down until you hear "quick >> access tool bar." Then tab over until you hear "customize quick >> access tool bar list box, save as one of nine." If you arrow down >> through that list box, you will hear what the defaults are. I hope >> that helps. >> >> Laura >> >> On 4/11/19, Josh Loevy via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Thanks for the update Laura! >>> I have been looking for the default quick access commands, do you happen >>> to know where I can find them? >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >> 2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289 >> e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256 >> 635936283&sdata=jxiiiAIO0NyjgaNgaIKv5Nwwpg1xJj%2B0fV6NbruDn9k%3D&res >> erved=0 >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >> 2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540visi.com& >> data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa >> aaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256635946287&sdata=rDpG7%2FrkW%2BDxCWnriPtHDyh >> NIdGakgf0Cel2ENa7BJg%3D&reserved=0 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From amarjain at amarjain.com Tue Apr 23 10:28:43 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 15:58:43 +0530 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> <00d401d4f0d9$7f639870$7e2ac950$@visi.com> Message-ID: I somehow missed this threat. Excellent work, Laura. Just an addition, Jaws does not announce formatting related changes in track, it just announces ‘revised property’. Request if we can get this addressed as well. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone > On 23-Apr-2019, at 3:15 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: > > Dear Laura > > Just a note to thank you and all those who have worked on this very > much indeed. The tip you have shared for quick access keys seems > useful, I will try it. > > Kind regards > > Ger for all your work on this > >> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> Sorry for the cross-post, but in case some folks are following one >> thread and not another: >> >> VFO is planning on issuing a new release some time in the next month >> to address as many of these concerns as possible. I will be working >> with them on their Beta test to make sure they are actually addressed. >> Microsoft will also be working on things from their end, but they will >> primarily be implementing them in the latest build, so I anticipate >> that we will need to advocate for upgrades to the latest version of >> office as accommodations in our job. >> >> Here is the list of issues about which Vfo and Microsoft are aware. >> Please let me know if anything that you are encountering is not on >> this list. >> >> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >> 2. Jaws occasionally reads both the old and the revised text. >> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, >> comments. >> 5. Reliably being able to select text in footnotes, headers and >> footers, comment bubbles. >> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 on the display in footnotes. >> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing footnotes. >> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop advancing after a >> certain point. >> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >> 10. call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >> 12. General sluggishness/lagginess when navigating the ribbon. >> >> Thanks everyone! >> >> Laura >> >> >>> On 4/11/19, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> Perhaps you have already heard this elsewhere, but on a recent Podcast, >>> Eric >>> Damery made reference to some major changes to the process JAWS uses to >>> track Word changes and revisions were being made, and I believe he said >>> that >>> they would likely be in the May release. Perhaps this will also help. >>> >>> The Quick Access Toolbar is very handy for tasks, I am glad it is helping >>> in >>> this situation. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve Jacobson >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >>> BlindLaw >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 7:26 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>> >>> Hi Josh, >>> >>> Hit alt+f, then t to get to options. Arrow down until you hear "quick >>> access tool bar." Then tab over until you hear "customize quick >>> access tool bar list box, save as one of nine." If you arrow down >>> through that list box, you will hear what the defaults are. I hope >>> that helps. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>>> On 4/11/19, Josh Loevy via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Thanks for the update Laura! >>>> I have been looking for the default quick access commands, do you happen >>>> to know where I can find them? >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >>> 2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289 >>> e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256 >>> 635936283&sdata=jxiiiAIO0NyjgaNgaIKv5Nwwpg1xJj%2B0fV6NbruDn9k%3D&res >>> erved=0 >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >>> 2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540visi.com& >>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa >>> aaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256635946287&sdata=rDpG7%2FrkW%2BDxCWnriPtHDyh >>> NIdGakgf0Cel2ENa7BJg%3D&reserved=0 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com From ETroutman at BrooksPierce.com Tue Apr 23 11:37:25 2019 From: ETroutman at BrooksPierce.com (Elizabeth Troutman) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:37:25 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Events Compliant with Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act In-Reply-To: <2951255@ncmd.uscourts.gov> References: <2951255@ncmd.uscourts.gov> Message-ID: Friends, See below from the Middle District of North Carolina. We have worked with the Court here to make the filing system compatible with JAWS. Hopefully this will work - and I thought it might be helpful to those in other jurisdictions to share this initiative with your respective clerks of court. Elizabeth Elizabeth Troutman [cid:image003.jpg at 01D4F9A7.64A2C2F0] t: 336.271.3138 f: 336.232.9138 2000 Renaissance Plaza 230 North Elm Street Greensboro, NC 27401 P.O. Box 26000 (27420) From: ECF at ncmd.uscourts.gov [mailto:ECF at ncmd.uscourts.gov] Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 4:33 PM To: ecf at ncmd.uscourts.gov Subject: Events Compliant with Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act This is an announcement e-mail message generated by Court action through the CM/ECF system. Please DO NOT RESPOND to this e-mail because the mail box is unattended. The Clerks Office for the Middle District of North Carolina has created several new web accessible civil and criminal events in CM/ECF, which are listed under the Web Accessible heading. The events were created to comply with Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act and are intended to help a blind user with assistive technology, such as screen reader software, to independently file documents. The events are not as functional as other non-web accessible events due to programming limitations beyond the Courts control. The Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts plans on upgrading CM/ECF in the future to be fully compliant with Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. If you experience any difficulties with the new events or have any questions, please contact the Clerks Office at 336-332-6000. Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail transmittal is privileged and confidential intended for the addressee only. If you are neither the intended recipient nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, any disclosure of this information in any way or taking of any action in reliance on this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the person transmitting the information immediately. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware by Mimecast Ltd. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4402 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Apr 23 11:52:49 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:52:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> <00d401d4f0d9$7f639870$7e2ac950$@visi.com> Message-ID: Hi, Yes, I'm aware of this also. I will let them know, but this also may need to wait for a future update. I am trying to balance getting as many things addressed as possible with not overwhelming the developers. They are currently developing a beta test to address the issues raised in January. The last I heard was that a beta was released last week that still does not adequately address the issues brought to their attention, so they are trying additional fixes. I'll let you know once I've tested it. Laura On 4/23/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: > I somehow missed this threat. > > Excellent work, Laura. Just an addition, Jaws does not announce formatting > related changes in track, it just announces ‘revised property’. Request if > we can get this addressed as well. > > Regards, > Amar Jain > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 23-Apr-2019, at 3:15 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Dear Laura >> >> Just a note to thank you and all those who have worked on this very >> much indeed. The tip you have shared for quick access keys seems >> useful, I will try it. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Ger for all your work on this >> >>> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Sorry for the cross-post, but in case some folks are following one >>> thread and not another: >>> >>> VFO is planning on issuing a new release some time in the next month >>> to address as many of these concerns as possible. I will be working >>> with them on their Beta test to make sure they are actually addressed. >>> Microsoft will also be working on things from their end, but they will >>> primarily be implementing them in the latest build, so I anticipate >>> that we will need to advocate for upgrades to the latest version of >>> office as accommodations in our job. >>> >>> Here is the list of issues about which Vfo and Microsoft are aware. >>> Please let me know if anything that you are encountering is not on >>> this list. >>> >>> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >>> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >>> 2. Jaws occasionally reads both the old and the revised text. >>> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >>> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, >>> comments. >>> 5. Reliably being able to select text in footnotes, headers and >>> footers, comment bubbles. >>> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 on the display in footnotes. >>> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing >>> footnotes. >>> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop advancing after a >>> certain point. >>> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >>> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >>> 10. call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >>> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >>> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >>> 12. General sluggishness/lagginess when navigating the ribbon. >>> >>> Thanks everyone! >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> >>>> On 4/11/19, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> Perhaps you have already heard this elsewhere, but on a recent Podcast, >>>> Eric >>>> Damery made reference to some major changes to the process JAWS uses to >>>> track Word changes and revisions were being made, and I believe he said >>>> that >>>> they would likely be in the May release. Perhaps this will also help. >>>> >>>> The Quick Access Toolbar is very handy for tasks, I am glad it is >>>> helping >>>> in >>>> this situation. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobson >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >>>> BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 7:26 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>> >>>> Hi Josh, >>>> >>>> Hit alt+f, then t to get to options. Arrow down until you hear "quick >>>> access tool bar." Then tab over until you hear "customize quick >>>> access tool bar list box, save as one of nine." If you arrow down >>>> through that list box, you will hear what the defaults are. I hope >>>> that helps. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>>> On 4/11/19, Josh Loevy via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Thanks for the update Laura! >>>>> I have been looking for the default quick access commands, do you >>>>> happen >>>>> to know where I can find them? >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >>>> 2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289 >>>> e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256 >>>> 635936283&sdata=jxiiiAIO0NyjgaNgaIKv5Nwwpg1xJj%2B0fV6NbruDn9k%3D&res >>>> erved=0 >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >>>> 2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540visi.com& >>>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa >>>> aaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256635946287&sdata=rDpG7%2FrkW%2BDxCWnriPtHDyh >>>> NIdGakgf0Cel2ENa7BJg%3D&reserved=0 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Apr 23 11:54:54 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:54:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck In-Reply-To: References: <01a101d4f168$d56c3bc0$8044b340$@sbgaal.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I've brought this to Microsoft/VFO's attention. Apparently it was addressed at least partially in Office 365. I stressed to VFO that this is such a rudimentary feature of Microsoft Office that it needs to be addressed in other issues of Office as well, including older ones. I was told that the bug is officially logged. I will keep following up. Fingers crossed! On 4/23/19, Gerard Sadlier wrote: > Hi Laura, all > > Apologies, I'm late to this discussion but only reviewing emails now. > I have this issue in word, in longer documents. Not an issue I've had > in Outlook. > > If I can help at all with the list of queries for VFO/Microsoft or in > testing etc. do let me know. Equally, if that's all in hand, all the > better! > > Kind regards > > Ger > > On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> OK I'm adding spell check to the list. I think yall need to get together >> and >> buy me a festivus pole. Haha. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 3:55 PM, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I find that if you tab around it will read it out. Not perfect but >>> doable. >>> >>> >>> >>> Patti Chang Esq. >>> Director of Outreach >>> 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 >>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org >>> Cell: 773-307-6440 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and >>> friends >>> who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind. Every day we >>> work together to help blind people live the lives they want. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 2:49 PM >>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Cc: Shannon >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck >>> >>> yes >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>> >>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>> 1001 Main St., Suite 803 >>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>> E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com >>> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or >>> attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any >>> review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express >>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended >>> recipient, >>> please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura >>> Wolk via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 8:37 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Jaw and spellcheck >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> On the subject of addressing Jaws issues, does anyone else have the >>> problem where Jaws will not read out the word that has been identified >>> as >>> mis-spelled? I often have to escape out of the dialogue and then >>> restart >>> spell check. If others are having this problem, I will bring it to >>> Microsoft/VFO's attention as well. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg at sbgaal.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang at nfb.org >>> >>> Disclaimer >>> >>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is >>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others >>> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby >>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in >>> relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and >>> may be unlawful. >>> >>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been >>> automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a >>> Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for >>> your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and >>> compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >> > From amarjain at amarjain.com Tue Apr 23 12:01:52 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:31:52 +0530 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> <00d401d4f0d9$7f639870$7e2ac950$@visi.com> Message-ID: <2CE88250-030C-4D9E-B15D-2693D8AAAFDE@amarjain.com> Appreciate the concern and agree with your approach to it. Feel free to let me know if I can be of any help other than private beta testing as Rosemarry will not give me another enrolment as I could not test earlier due to professional commitments :) Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone > On 23-Apr-2019, at 5:22 PM, Laura Wolk wrote: > > Hi, > > Yes, I'm aware of this also. I will let them know, but this also may > need to wait for a future update. I am trying to balance getting as > many things addressed as possible with not overwhelming the > developers. They are currently developing a beta test to address the > issues raised in January. The last I heard was that a beta was > released last week that still does not adequately address the issues > brought to their attention, so they are trying additional fixes. I'll > let you know once I've tested it. > > Laura > >> On 4/23/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >> I somehow missed this threat. >> >> Excellent work, Laura. Just an addition, Jaws does not announce formatting >> related changes in track, it just announces ‘revised property’. Request if >> we can get this addressed as well. >> >> Regards, >> Amar Jain >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 23-Apr-2019, at 3:15 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Laura >>> >>> Just a note to thank you and all those who have worked on this very >>> much indeed. The tip you have shared for quick access keys seems >>> useful, I will try it. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Ger for all your work on this >>> >>>> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Sorry for the cross-post, but in case some folks are following one >>>> thread and not another: >>>> >>>> VFO is planning on issuing a new release some time in the next month >>>> to address as many of these concerns as possible. I will be working >>>> with them on their Beta test to make sure they are actually addressed. >>>> Microsoft will also be working on things from their end, but they will >>>> primarily be implementing them in the latest build, so I anticipate >>>> that we will need to advocate for upgrades to the latest version of >>>> office as accommodations in our job. >>>> >>>> Here is the list of issues about which Vfo and Microsoft are aware. >>>> Please let me know if anything that you are encountering is not on >>>> this list. >>>> >>>> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >>>> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >>>> 2. Jaws occasionally reads both the old and the revised text. >>>> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >>>> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, >>>> comments. >>>> 5. Reliably being able to select text in footnotes, headers and >>>> footers, comment bubbles. >>>> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 on the display in footnotes. >>>> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing >>>> footnotes. >>>> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop advancing after a >>>> certain point. >>>> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >>>> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >>>> 10. call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >>>> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >>>> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >>>> 12. General sluggishness/lagginess when navigating the ribbon. >>>> >>>> Thanks everyone! >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 4/11/19, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Laura, >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps you have already heard this elsewhere, but on a recent Podcast, >>>>> Eric >>>>> Damery made reference to some major changes to the process JAWS uses to >>>>> track Word changes and revisions were being made, and I believe he said >>>>> that >>>>> they would likely be in the May release. Perhaps this will also help. >>>>> >>>>> The Quick Access Toolbar is very handy for tasks, I am glad it is >>>>> helping >>>>> in >>>>> this situation. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Steve Jacobson >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 7:26 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>> >>>>> Hi Josh, >>>>> >>>>> Hit alt+f, then t to get to options. Arrow down until you hear "quick >>>>> access tool bar." Then tab over until you hear "customize quick >>>>> access tool bar list box, save as one of nine." If you arrow down >>>>> through that list box, you will hear what the defaults are. I hope >>>>> that helps. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>>> On 4/11/19, Josh Loevy via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Thanks for the update Laura! >>>>>> I have been looking for the default quick access commands, do you >>>>>> happen >>>>>> to know where I can find them? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >>>>> 2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289 >>>>> e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256 >>>>> 635936283&sdata=jxiiiAIO0NyjgaNgaIKv5Nwwpg1xJj%2B0fV6NbruDn9k%3D&res >>>>> erved=0 >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >>>>> 2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540visi.com& >>>>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa >>>>> aaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256635946287&sdata=rDpG7%2FrkW%2BDxCWnriPtHDyh >>>>> NIdGakgf0Cel2ENa7BJg%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Apr 23 13:32:23 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:32:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes In-Reply-To: <2CE88250-030C-4D9E-B15D-2693D8AAAFDE@amarjain.com> References: <015d01d4966d$cc3da260$64b8e720$@timeldermusic.com> <78DA85CC-D21F-48A9-A174-E46CEAA715BA@gmail.com> <006301d4972d$fd15e4e0$f741aea0$@timeldermusic.com> <056a01d49730$427ba1d0$c772e570$@labarrelaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB665@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539243DB77F@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <034201d49b19$e5165240$af42f6c0$@gmail.com> <852c178a1d553c5170c2f5a3ef7a1573@mail.gmail.com> <00d401d4f0d9$7f639870$7e2ac950$@visi.com> <2CE88250-030C-4D9E-B15D-2693D8AAAFDE@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Thanks so much! I'll definitely keep you posted! On 4/23/19, Amar Jain wrote: > Appreciate the concern and agree with your approach to it. Feel free to let > me know if I can be of any help other than private beta testing as Rosemarry > will not give me another enrolment as I could not test earlier due to > professional commitments :) > > Regards, > Amar Jain > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 23-Apr-2019, at 5:22 PM, Laura Wolk wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Yes, I'm aware of this also. I will let them know, but this also may >> need to wait for a future update. I am trying to balance getting as >> many things addressed as possible with not overwhelming the >> developers. They are currently developing a beta test to address the >> issues raised in January. The last I heard was that a beta was >> released last week that still does not adequately address the issues >> brought to their attention, so they are trying additional fixes. I'll >> let you know once I've tested it. >> >> Laura >> >>> On 4/23/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >>> I somehow missed this threat. >>> >>> Excellent work, Laura. Just an addition, Jaws does not announce >>> formatting >>> related changes in track, it just announces ‘revised property’. Request >>> if >>> we can get this addressed as well. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Amar Jain >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 23-Apr-2019, at 3:15 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Laura >>>> >>>> Just a note to thank you and all those who have worked on this very >>>> much indeed. The tip you have shared for quick access keys seems >>>> useful, I will try it. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Ger for all your work on this >>>> >>>>> On 4/12/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Sorry for the cross-post, but in case some folks are following one >>>>> thread and not another: >>>>> >>>>> VFO is planning on issuing a new release some time in the next month >>>>> to address as many of these concerns as possible. I will be working >>>>> with them on their Beta test to make sure they are actually addressed. >>>>> Microsoft will also be working on things from their end, but they will >>>>> primarily be implementing them in the latest build, so I anticipate >>>>> that we will need to advocate for upgrades to the latest version of >>>>> office as accommodations in our job. >>>>> >>>>> Here is the list of issues about which Vfo and Microsoft are aware. >>>>> Please let me know if anything that you are encountering is not on >>>>> this list. >>>>> >>>>> 1. virtual viewer does not show more than approximately 150 revisions. >>>>> Also impacts the list tracked change feature. >>>>> 2. Jaws occasionally reads both the old and the revised text. >>>>> 3. Revisions of footnotes don’t show up in virtual viewer at all. >>>>> 4. Jaws becomes sluggish when editing footnotes, headers and footers, >>>>> comments. >>>>> 5. Reliably being able to select text in footnotes, headers and >>>>> footers, comment bubbles. >>>>> 6. Always showing dots 7-8 on the display in footnotes. >>>>> 7. Braille cursor routing keys do not work correctly when editing >>>>> footnotes. >>>>> 8. If footnotes are long, Braille display will stop advancing after a >>>>> certain point. >>>>> 9. Jaws will report a revision at the beginning of the line, rather >>>>> than announcing the revision exactly where the revised text occurs. >>>>> 10. call numbers of footnotes not being read in the footnote pane. >>>>> 11. When switching from show all mark-up to no-markup, hidden >>>>> properties are still read, requiring a manual refresh. >>>>> 12. General sluggishness/lagginess when navigating the ribbon. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks everyone! >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 4/11/19, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps you have already heard this elsewhere, but on a recent >>>>>> Podcast, >>>>>> Eric >>>>>> Damery made reference to some major changes to the process JAWS uses >>>>>> to >>>>>> track Word changes and revisions were being made, and I believe he >>>>>> said >>>>>> that >>>>>> they would likely be in the May release. Perhaps this will also >>>>>> help. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Quick Access Toolbar is very handy for tasks, I am glad it is >>>>>> helping >>>>>> in >>>>>> this situation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve Jacobson >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>> via >>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 7:26 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Josh, >>>>>> >>>>>> Hit alt+f, then t to get to options. Arrow down until you hear >>>>>> "quick >>>>>> access tool bar." Then tab over until you hear "customize quick >>>>>> access tool bar list box, save as one of nine." If you arrow down >>>>>> through that list box, you will hear what the defaults are. I hope >>>>>> that helps. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/11/19, Josh Loevy via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks for the update Laura! >>>>>>> I have been looking for the default quick access commands, do you >>>>>>> happen >>>>>>> to know where I can find them? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >>>>>> 2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289 >>>>>> e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256 >>>>>> 635936283&sdata=jxiiiAIO0NyjgaNgaIKv5Nwwpg1xJj%2B0fV6NbruDn9k%3D&res >>>>>> erved=0 >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org% >>>>>> 2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540visi.com& >>>>>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C81369074289e4723bc7208d6beddad94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa >>>>>> aaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636906256635946287&sdata=rDpG7%2FrkW%2BDxCWnriPtHDyh >>>>>> NIdGakgf0Cel2ENa7BJg%3D&reserved=0 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> > > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Tue Apr 23 14:49:32 2019 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:49:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Chrome In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002b01d4f9e3$c2f908a0$48eb19e0$@visi.com> Another thing that needs to be checked are the JAWS settings. I don't know if defaults for Chrome are different from Internet Explorer or not, but there is a setting that determines if JAWS does a mouse click when you press ENTER or not. This setting may need to be changed for Chrome or for the specific web pate. Press JAWSKEY and V to open quick settings. Look for the "Link Activation" setting. For me, pressing the letter "L" jumped right there when I opened Quick settings from inside Chrome. You can toggle between "simulate mouse click" and "Send ENTER Key" by pressing SPACE. Since I don't know for sure how yours is set or what might work, I would suggest that you try changing it from your current setting to the other setting and see if that might help. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 6:36 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aaron Cannon Subject: Re: [blindlaw] JAWS and Chrome Hi Nikki. If no one else is able to help you, I may be able to write a small script that you can use inside Chrome that may fix this issue. No promises, but based on your description, it is likely. I will, however, need a copy of the page in question. However, before we try that, you should make sure the window is maximized, as that can occasionally cause issues when that is not done. To do that, press alt+space, then either press the down-arrow key until you hear "Maximize", then press enter, or after hitting CTRL+space, simply press the x key. Then go back and try to click on the link again. If that does not resolve it: 1. Visit the page in question. 2. Press F10 to open the Chrome Menu. 3. Arrow down to "More Tools" and press enter. 4. Press enter on "Save Page As". 5. A save dialog will open. Choose a location and a name, and in the "Save As Type" dropdown, choose the "HTML only" option. 6. Email me the resulting file at cannona at fireantproductions.com Best of luck. Aaron On 4/22/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I am sorry for writing so often--many tech issues here. I decided to install > Google Chrome and see if that is more stable in terms of keeping JAWS' place > on the webpage after I bring an email or wordprocessor into focus and then > return to the browser. It looks like it is. However, I am noticing something > peculiar on Westlaw. After conducting a search and skimming a list of search > results, I apparently cannot click on a given result to review the case or > journal article. I tried clicking on the title of the item in addition to > the excerpted text that the search highlights as a part of the result entry, > but I cannot advance to the page with the full text of the case or article. > This is so strange because this is not at all an issue on IE. As far as I > can tell, JAWS seems confused as to whether the title is a link or a heading > based on what I get when I perform an insert-F1. I also recall that a few of > you are able to use Chrome and JAWS when working on Westlaw. I would be > grateful if you could let me know if you are using some customizations to > make JAWS behave more smoothly on Chrome or if you have additional ideas. > For reference, I am using JAWS 2018 and a recent update to Chrome 73. > > Thanks, > Nikki > > > Nandini Singh > > Covington & Burling LLP > One CityCenter, 850 Tenth Street, NW > Washington, DC 20001-4956 > T +1 202 662 5113 | nsingh at cov.com > https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cov.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C31c842ae9a78467b171608d6c77b7c4c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636915730506668250&sdata=bT5xVSHMlALOapkCGYM%2Fh76306maJ1dYTkO4oMKf71U%3D&reserved=0 > > This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is > confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, > please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has > been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your > system. Thank you for your cooperation. > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C31c842ae9a78467b171608d6c77b7c4c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636915730506678261&sdata=AuIoSa2jGGbZ1Q3utxbU7Ddti6xt9rBc2b1TjbH7uzY%3D&reserved=0 > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fcannona%2540fireantproductions.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C31c842ae9a78467b171608d6c77b7c4c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636915730506678261&sdata=%2BgunF68ByhyZuvluLKIawunxJfvPHl3KZ5lz3Cz6BbY%3D&reserved=0 > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C31c842ae9a78467b171608d6c77b7c4c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636915730506678261&sdata=AuIoSa2jGGbZ1Q3utxbU7Ddti6xt9rBc2b1TjbH7uzY%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540visi.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C31c842ae9a78467b171608d6c77b7c4c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636915730506678261&sdata=%2BtPrd37u8vL9irHIT31XzvC%2BKcopXvQGugbEwxDEy4Y%3D&reserved=0 From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Apr 23 16:22:50 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:22:50 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Fwd: Fw: Judicial Outreach Program Oregon and Washington Message-ID: From: Chris Alston/WAWB/09/USCOURTS To: Sameer Alifarag/WAWB/09/USCOURTS at USCOURTS Date: 04/23/2019 08:39 AM Subject: Judicial Outreach Program ________________________________ Greetings, I am writing to you about an exciting opportunity for the members of your association. The Judicial Conference Committee on the Administration of the Bankruptcy System is presenting a program called "Roadways to the Federal Bench: Who, Me? A Bankruptcy Judge?" on October 24, 2019, in Seattle, Washington. The program is aimed at increasing diversity on the bankruptcy bench. It will involve a live-stream from Washington, DC of a presentation for about an hour, followed by the participants meeting with federal judges for about an hour, followed by a reception. We expect to have 100 participants (consisting of law students and young lawyers) separated into groups of ten, with each group meeting 2-3 federal judges for 15 minutes at a time in a "speed dating" format. The judges will offer their thoughts and insights on how to get to the federal bench. I am the judge contact for the Seattle area event, and Christy Tobin-Presser of Bush Kornfeld LLP is the lawyer contact (who is copied on this email). We are reaching out to all the law schools and affinity bar groups in Oregon and Washington. For now, we want to make sure that you are aware of the event and have it on your calendar. There will be follow-up this summer with information on how to register (as space will be limited). Please feel free to share this email and the attached Save The Date with your members. In the meantime, please do not hesitate to ask if you have any questions. Chris Alston Hon. Christopher M. Alston United States Bankruptcy Court Western District of Washington 700 Stewart Street, Suite 6301 Seattle, WA 98101 chris_alston at wawb.uscourts.gov Phone: (206) 370-5330 Fax: (206) 370-5335 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Washington Attorneys with Disabilities Association" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation at googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Roadways to the Federal Bench - Save the Date.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 1050026 bytes Desc: Roadways to the Federal Bench - Save the Date.docx URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Apr 23 20:51:40 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 20:51:40 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal Voice Attorney Announcement_2019.pdf Seattle Message-ID: See attached staff attorney position announcement. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Legal Voice Attorney Announcement_2019.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 646924 bytes Desc: Legal Voice Attorney Announcement_2019.pdf URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Apr 24 17:20:53 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:20:53 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Diversity Notification--attorney advisor Federal Communications Commission Message-ID: From: Jobs [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia via Jobs Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 6:03 AM To: 'jobs at nfbnet.org' Cc: Maurer, Patricia Subject: [Jobs] FW: Diversity Notification -----Original Message----- From: careerconnector at monstergovt.com [mailto:careerconnector at monstergovt.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 3:35 AM To: Maurer, Patricia Subject: Diversity Notification National Federation of the Blind Sir/Madam Dear Sir/Madam: Your organization and its members might be interested in the following vacancy announcement: Announcement Number: ATTY-MB-2019-002 Vacancy Description: Attorney-Advisor (General) (GS-905) Open Period: 04/23/2019 to 05/14/2019 Series/Grade: GS-0905B Attorney Advisor-13/14 Salary: (USD) $99,172 - (USD) $152,352 Hiring Agency: Federal Communications Commission Duty Location: District of Columbia, DC, US For more information, please visit the vacancy announcement located at https://careerconnector.jobs.treas.gov/cc/fcc/vacancy/viewVacancyDetail!execute.hms?orgId=1751&jnum=177613. Thank you. Human Resources Management Federal Communications Commission -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From jtwauthier at gmail.com Thu Apr 25 18:25:17 2019 From: jtwauthier at gmail.com (Jad Wauthier) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 13:25:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about resources Message-ID: <9df7847a-689d-3daa-e9d3-059d04726f65@gmail.com> Hi all, I am totally blind.  I am currently in a custody case with my ex wife.  Can anyone point me in the direction of resources that may explain what documents my ex's attorney has to provide to me in an accessible format?  She sent me a proposed modified parenting plan in a word document; however, this format makes it not fully accessible to me.  I'm just wondering if there are any provisions for this.  We live in Tennessee. Thank you for your help. -- Jad Wauthier | Problem Solver 512.920.3494 It's all in the perception. Living in darkness is just seeing by a different light. From cabusgeorgia at gmail.com Thu Apr 25 19:26:32 2019 From: cabusgeorgia at gmail.com (Georgia Cabus) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:26:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about resources In-Reply-To: <9df7847a-689d-3daa-e9d3-059d04726f65@gmail.com> References: <9df7847a-689d-3daa-e9d3-059d04726f65@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Call Disability rights TN. +1 615-298-1080 They should be able to help you regarding disability. On Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:26 PM Jad Wauthier via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi all, > > > I am totally blind. I am currently in a custody case with my ex wife. > Can anyone point me in the direction of resources that may explain what > documents my ex's attorney has to provide to me in an accessible > format? She sent me a proposed modified parenting plan in a word > document; however, this format makes it not fully accessible to me. I'm > just wondering if there are any provisions for this. We live in Tennessee. > > > Thank you for your help. > > > -- > Jad Wauthier | Problem Solver > 512.920.3494 > > It's all in the perception. > > Living in darkness is just seeing by a different light. > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cabusgeorgia%40gmail.com > From jtwauthier at gmail.com Thu Apr 25 19:37:12 2019 From: jtwauthier at gmail.com (Jad Wauthier) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:37:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about resources In-Reply-To: References: <9df7847a-689d-3daa-e9d3-059d04726f65@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3dab83f0-c780-3f92-e959-0c898ab2eb4f@gmail.com> Thank you. On 4/25/2019 2:26 PM, Georgia Cabus via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi, > > Call Disability rights TN. > +1 615-298-1080 > > They should be able to help you regarding disability. > > > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:26 PM Jad Wauthier via BlindLaw > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> >> I am totally blind. I am currently in a custody case with my ex wife. >> Can anyone point me in the direction of resources that may explain what >> documents my ex's attorney has to provide to me in an accessible >> format? She sent me a proposed modified parenting plan in a word >> document; however, this format makes it not fully accessible to me. I'm >> just wondering if there are any provisions for this. We live in Tennessee. >> >> >> Thank you for your help. >> >> >> -- >> Jad Wauthier | Problem Solver >> 512.920.3494 >> >> It's all in the perception. >> >> Living in darkness is just seeing by a different light. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cabusgeorgia%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtwauthier%40gmail.com -- Jad Wauthier | Problem Solver 512.920.3494 It's all in the perception. Living in darkness is just seeing by a different light. From sanho817 at gmail.com Sat Apr 27 21:52:53 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2019 16:52:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting Message-ID: All, Good afternoon. Which OCR apps or programs do you consider best for reading handwriting? Warmth, Sanho From richard.welch.gs at gmail.com Sun Apr 28 17:32:22 2019 From: richard.welch.gs at gmail.com (Richard Welch) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 13:32:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97F8A903-C69F-45EA-B53D-A0C4CF935682@gmail.com> AFAIK there are none. Best, Richard Welch > On Apr 27, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > > All, > > Good afternoon. Which OCR apps or programs do you consider best for > reading handwriting? > > Warmth, > Sanho > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/richard.welch.gs%40gmail.com From NSingh at cov.com Sun Apr 28 17:41:35 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 17:41:35 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5eeb2c07e4174af1be8496948bfb914b@CBIvEX01eUS.cov.com> None. Hand writing is so variable that I do not believe it can be well read by a computer yet. I usually request a legal secretary or paralegal to read aloud hand writing so I can start work immediately. We also have document support services that can type up handwritten materials into a Word file, which is good for anytime I have to consult the document later. That being said, my practice involves relatively few handwritten materials. Most of them come from my pro bono work. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 5:53 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting All, Good afternoon. Which OCR apps or programs do you consider best for reading handwriting? Warmth, Sanho _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From sanho817 at gmail.com Sun Apr 28 18:02:08 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 13:02:08 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Asking questions Message-ID: <441B44C8-FA92-4A30-BB2A-839F374DAE7E@gmail.com> All, Good afternoon. Would any practicing blind attorneys be willing to answer some questions over the phone? I have several of them and would love some real-time feedback. I know everyone's busy, so even just 15 or 30 minutes would be extremely helpful. Attorneys in America are preferable. Warmth, Sanho From jtfetter at yahoo.com Sun Apr 28 18:06:00 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 14:06:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Asking questions In-Reply-To: <441B44C8-FA92-4A30-BB2A-839F374DAE7E@gmail.com> References: <441B44C8-FA92-4A30-BB2A-839F374DAE7E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5619593D-3F90-412F-BFDB-1A04C09D2832@yahoo.com> Would be happy to, please contact me off list. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 28, 2019, at 2:02 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > > All, > > Good afternoon. Would any practicing blind attorneys be willing to answer some questions over the phone? I have several of them and would love some real-time feedback. I know everyone's busy, so even just 15 or 30 minutes would be extremely helpful. Attorneys in America are preferable. > > Warmth, > Sanho > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From ttomasi at driowa.org Sun Apr 28 19:52:12 2019 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 19:52:12 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Asking questions In-Reply-To: <441B44C8-FA92-4A30-BB2A-839F374DAE7E@gmail.com> References: <441B44C8-FA92-4A30-BB2A-839F374DAE7E@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am happy to. Please contact me off list. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 1:02 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] Asking questions All, Good afternoon. Would any practicing blind attorneys be willing to answer some questions over the phone? I have several of them and would love some real-time feedback. I know everyone's busy, so even just 15 or 30 minutes would be extremely helpful. Attorneys in America are preferable. Warmth, Sanho _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From ttomasi at driowa.org Sun Apr 28 19:52:30 2019 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 19:52:30 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting In-Reply-To: <5eeb2c07e4174af1be8496948bfb914b@CBIvEX01eUS.cov.com> References: <5eeb2c07e4174af1be8496948bfb914b@CBIvEX01eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: This is also my experience. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 12:42 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Singh, Nandini Subject: Re: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting None. Hand writing is so variable that I do not believe it can be well read by a computer yet. I usually request a legal secretary or paralegal to read aloud hand writing so I can start work immediately. We also have document support services that can type up handwritten materials into a Word file, which is good for anytime I have to consult the document later. That being said, my practice involves relatively few handwritten materials. Most of them come from my pro bono work. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 5:53 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting All, Good afternoon. Which OCR apps or programs do you consider best for reading handwriting? Warmth, Sanho _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From ttomasi at driowa.org Sun Apr 28 19:53:13 2019 From: ttomasi at driowa.org (Tai Tomasi) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 19:53:13 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No applications can do this well. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 4:53 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting All, Good afternoon. Which OCR apps or programs do you consider best for reading handwriting? Warmth, Sanho _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ttomasi%40driowa.org From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 28 21:29:11 2019 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 14:29:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <020801d4fe09$6c9b39e0$45d1ada0$@sbcglobal.net> I am not aware of any OCR program that can read handwriting. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 2:53 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting All, Good afternoon. Which OCR apps or programs do you consider best for reading handwriting? Warmth, Sanho _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.n et --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 28 21:40:42 2019 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:40:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Handwriting Message-ID: There is at least one app, that makes a go at handwriting recognition -- Seeing AI from Microsoft. I don't know how good it is, but suspect it might give you an idea, but couldn't be counted on. Invision might also do the same thing -- can't remember. Dave --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From bluezinfandel at hotmail.com Mon Apr 29 14:20:24 2019 From: bluezinfandel at hotmail.com (Ben Fulton) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:20:24 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Handwriting Message-ID: I have seeing AI on my Iphone, and it is even worse than Kurzwell. Kurzwell is pretty good OCR, but unless the handwriting is almost perfect it will spit out incorrect answers. I have a serious follow up question on this, and some relatively good news to share. First, I recently passed the bar exam, and I will be fully licensed soon. I am doing my articles right now, with a firm doing criminal defense work. The disclosure we get is often a police report, with bad handwrighting. I'm fine for now, but when I finish my articles, I may need to ensure the disclosure I get is fully accessible. How should I best approach this issue. I am thinking there is an obligation to provide defense counsel with disclosure that is accessible, but how do I get them to fulfill that obligation. To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Handwriting Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There is at least one app, that makes a go at handwriting recognition -- Seeing AI from Microsoft. I don't know how good it is, but suspect it might give you an idea, but couldn't be counted on. Invision might also do the same thing -- can't remember. Dave ttomasi at driowa.org> To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No applications can do this well. From: Tai Tomasi To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is also my experience. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 12:42 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Singh, Nandini Subject: Re: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting None. Hand writing is so variable that I do not believe it can be well read by a computer yet. I usually request a legal secretary or paralegal to read aloud hand writing so I can start work immediately. We also have document support services that can type up handwritten materials into a Word file, which is good for anytime I have to consult the document later. That being said, my practice involves relatively few handwritten materials. Most of them come from my pro bono work. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 4:53 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting All, Good afternoon. Which OCR apps or programs do you consider best for reading handwriting? Warmth, Sanho From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Mon Apr 29 17:53:44 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 18:53:44 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS Refuses to Read PDF Documents Message-ID: hi Everyone, I run JAWS 2018 on a Win 10 machine, with Adobe Reader 11. Since the last couple of days, whenever I open a PDF with JAWS, it simply says blank and does not read the document at all. Changing the reading preference has not helped. NVDA is reading them fine. Any ideas? Best, Rahul -- -- Rahul Bajaj Candidate for the BCL Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford From agtolentino at gmail.com Mon Apr 29 18:17:56 2019 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:17:56 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS Refuses to Read PDF Documents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56071CBC-0651-4F73-87CD-ED700EB8904C@gmail.com> I would suggest checking the enhanced security options under the edit menu. I think the files are being opened in a protected view that JAWS is unable to access. Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. > On Apr 29, 2019, at 10:53, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: > > hi Everyone, > > I run JAWS 2018 on a Win 10 machine, with Adobe Reader 11. Since the > last couple of days, whenever I open a PDF with JAWS, it simply says > blank and does not read the document at all. Changing the reading > preference has not helped. NVDA is reading them fine. Any ideas? > > Best, > Rahul > > -- > -- > Rahul Bajaj > Candidate for the BCL > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) > University of Oxford > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com From chris.stewart at uky.edu Tue Apr 30 13:38:52 2019 From: chris.stewart at uky.edu (Stewart, Christopher K) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 08:38:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] iManage Message-ID: Hi All: I'm starting at a firm in September that uses iManage, asI understand most larger firms do. In talking to one friend, I learned it's virtually inaccessible. So, to those of you litigating at firms that use it, I'd love to hear your work-arounds. Thanks, chris -- Chris K. Stewart Attorney at Law KBA #97351 Ph: (502)457-1757 From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Apr 30 13:48:30 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 09:48:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] iManage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <84cd65b2-01fe-eddf-c23e-128d63dd24a7@yahoo.com> It is not all that accessible without custom scripts. Do you think your firm would be interested in obtaining those and/or tinkering with its version of iManage to make it accessible? If so, please contact me off list, and I may be able to help make some contacts. Thanks. On 4/30/2019 9:38 AM, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi All: > > I'm starting at a firm in September that uses iManage, asI understand > most larger firms do. In talking to one friend, I learned it's > virtually inaccessible. So, to those of you litigating at firms that > use it, I'd love to hear your work-arounds. > > Thanks, > chris > > From amatney at loeb.com Tue Apr 30 13:51:18 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:51:18 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] iManage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A53924607F2E@SM-EXMAIL11.loeb.com> Hey Chris, I think that the accessibility (or lack thereof) of iManage depends on the exact iManage product and version you are using. There’s FileSite, DeskSite, and I think some other sites as well. These are not created equal. My firm arranged for me to use a version of FileSite (which integrates with Outlook) and used a scripter to help label a few fields. We may use the scripter for a few other things as well, but the version of FileSite we are using is accessible enough that I can run searches, as well as save and retrieve documents. I used this for nearly eight years at a prior firm. I also tried using DeskSite, and that was completely inaccessible, as far as I could tell. When I was using DeskSite, my only real option was to ask my assistant to perform tasks that required iManage. I found this to be difficult with respect to searches, because it’s just easier for me to scroll through a list of search results myself and see what might be relevant. But perhaps I could have gotten used to this method in time. Do you know which iteration of iManage you will be using? Best, Angie Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | E-mail:amatney at loeb.com Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 9:39 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Stewart, Christopher K Subject: [blindlaw] iManage Hi All: I'm starting at a firm in September that uses iManage, asI understand most larger firms do. In talking to one friend, I learned it's virtually inaccessible. So, to those of you litigating at firms that use it, I'd love to hear your work-arounds. Thanks, chris -- Chris K. Stewart Attorney at Law KBA #97351 Ph: (502)457-1757 _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2157 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From lmendez716 at gmail.com Tue Apr 30 14:06:49 2019 From: lmendez716 at gmail.com (Luis Mendez) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 10:06:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Handwriting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <019801d4ff5d$f54fb4f0$dfef1ed0$@gmail.com> Ben: Congratulations on passing the bar. As to your issues with handwriting, deciphering handwriting generally, and bad handwriting in particular, is a real challenge. I use to rely on a reader and/or ask my secretary to transcribe the report. When neither approach produced an acceptable transcript, I would accelerate arrangements to interview the report's author. Luis -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Ben Fulton via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 10:20 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Ben Fulton Subject: [blindlaw] Handwriting I have seeing AI on my Iphone, and it is even worse than Kurzwell. Kurzwell is pretty good OCR, but unless the handwriting is almost perfect it will spit out incorrect answers. I have a serious follow up question on this, and some relatively good news to share. First, I recently passed the bar exam, and I will be fully licensed soon. I am doing my articles right now, with a firm doing criminal defense work. The disclosure we get is often a police report, with bad handwrighting. I'm fine for now, but when I finish my articles, I may need to ensure the disclosure I get is fully accessible. How should I best approach this issue. I am thinking there is an obligation to provide defense counsel with disclosure that is accessible, but how do I get them to fulfill that obligation. To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Handwriting Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There is at least one app, that makes a go at handwriting recognition -- Seeing AI from Microsoft. I don't know how good it is, but suspect it might give you an idea, but couldn't be counted on. Invision might also do the same thing -- can't remember. Dave ttomasi at driowa.org> To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No applications can do this well. From: Tai Tomasi To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is also my experience. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 12:42 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Singh, Nandini Subject: Re: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting None. Hand writing is so variable that I do not believe it can be well read by a computer yet. I usually request a legal secretary or paralegal to read aloud hand writing so I can start work immediately. We also have document support services that can type up handwritten materials into a Word file, which is good for anytime I have to consult the document later. That being said, my practice involves relatively few handwritten materials. Most of them come from my pro bono work. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 4:53 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindlaw] OCR and Handwriting All, Good afternoon. Which OCR apps or programs do you consider best for reading handwriting? Warmth, Sanho _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmendez716%40gmail.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Apr 30 14:15:02 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 08:15:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: DOJ Tax Division is hiring -- civil litigation applications due May 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04f301d4ff5f$1abf55f0$503e01d0$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: Kisch, Wendy J. (TAX) Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:02 AM To: president at adc.org; chasnab46 at gmail.com; michael.stratton at Americanbar.org; sogi at Americanbar.org; slovering at acb.org; mylaw1999 at aol.com; bryce.suzuki at bryancave.com; arizonablackbar at gmail.com; jyi at polsinelli.com; linda.lin at aabany.org; jimmychin at aol.com; myeung at chinatowncdc.org; asaadi.aapa at gmail.com; michwong at microsoft.com; communications2 at apaba-dc.org; president at apaba-dc.org; info at apaba-md.com; jane at peytonbolin.com; chih-pin.lu at raymondjames.com; selse at eckertseamans.com; apalapres at gmail.com; skwoh at apalc.org; myambone at aol.com; rudykim at mofo.com; abassacramento at gmail.com; abwagroup at yahoo.com; ABWLPresident at gmail.com; twardell at mckennalong.com; albertli_pc at yahoo.com; Eric.Shepperd at co.Travis.tx.us; bthomas at graydon.com; administrator at bwla.org; pres-elect at blackwomenlawyersla.org; president at calblacklawyers.org; laurap at clsmf.org; laurence at gendelmanlaw.com; weddlej at gtlaw.com; victoriamendez at aol.com; hshimabuku at rim.com; tgsdhba at gmail.com; Myrthil, Marlysha (CRT) ; Lee, Jason (CIV) ; genmarie at gmail.com; falsd1 at gmail.com; president at filipinolawyers.org; bsims557 at yahoo.com; bryancwallace at gmail.com; Officers at gapaba.org; lakeitha at bellsouth.net; hbaasecretary at gmail.com; kenias at yahoo.com; javila at salawkc.com; Genoveva at TheLawUnbundled.com; lahumada at kleinbard.com; Mcastillo at panAmericanlife.com; dsen29 at gmail.com; jacquelynn.ruiz at yahoo.com; jmeyers at kybar.org; hellin.jang at legalcounselsite.com; KabaNewJersey at yahoo.com; jim at ebglaw.com; kabaconsultant at gmail.com; francisco at theadvocateslaw.com; NesDiazEsq at aol.com; msuarez at lagbac.org; lgbtbarla at gmail.com; info at le-gal.org; ergmelendez at gmail.com; salongaro at yahoo.com; kanichole at yahoo.com; fglalande at aol.com; pnichols at tomessalter.com; mahawebmail at gmail.com; info at massblacklawyers.org; polly at kauffmanlaw.net; info at mbbanyc.org; judyperezlaw at yahoo.com; vacevedo at pubdef.lacounty.gov; mokhalil1983 at gmail.com; shamim at hansantos.com; Reid.Raymond at co.hennepin.mn.us; jennyryan at gmail.com; tgroshens at mnbar.org; sherla.allen at mcca.com; centralnorth.napalsa at gmail.com; centralnorth.napalsa at gmail.com; nfb at nfb.org; slabarre at labarrelaw.com; ali1950 at aol.com; Lineberger, Carmen (USAFLS) ; josephmyers at nijc.org; adminassistant at nativeAmericanbar.org; diandra_benally at hotmail.com; vigillaw at hotmail.com; President at nsmba.org; Rjb101a at yahoo.com; artandmuseumlaw at aol.com; president at oapaba.org; info at pva.org; gonzalezaoscar at gmail.com; niki.solis at sfgov.org; asandoval at foleymansfield.com; mail at patellawoffices.com; president at sabany.org; info at sabany.org; executivedirector at sabanorthAmerica.com; nbezar at kolsbygordon.com; mantia at cooley.com; socalsaba at gmail.com; jdfranklin at law.siu.edu; clairemarie.bow at gmail.com; kstrickf at gmail.com; info at mubany.org; kate at kdfletcherlaw.com; rljeffs at jeffslawoffice.com; ty.ho at hoassociates.com; DinhS at foster.com; vhfcnba at gmail.com; csjamesesq at gmail.com; Conrad at wacda.com; Waalawyers at gmail.com; Waalawyers at yahoo.com; caguocha at oaulaw.com; cambadirectors at gmail.com; president at iaba.us; info at lgbtbardc.org; natlconfblacklawyers at gmail.com; nabadc_community at nabadc.com; sabadccommunications at gmail.com; vabadc at gmail.com; homefronttohired at msjdn.org; info at lgbtbar.org; president at msjdn.org; Kisch, Wendy J. (TAX) Subject: DOJ Tax Division is hiring -- civil litigation applications due May 6 I am writing to let you know that the U.S. Department of Justice, Tax Division is currently hiring attorneys for our civil trial sections. I anticipate that an ad for attorneys in our criminal enforcement sections will be posted shortly. As Chair of the Tax Division's Diversity Committee, I want to notify your organization and provide a point of contact for any questions you or your members might have. The Tax Division has a collegial and collaborative environment and provides excellent litigation opportunities. Although tax is in the background of all our cases, most cases do not focus on substantive tax issues. This is an outstanding opportunity for competitive candidates interested in general civil litigation (or, once the ad posts, criminal prosecution). Please distribute this e-mail to your members and to anyone you know who might be interested. The link to the USAJobs posting is: https://www.USAJobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/530701400 The job posting closes May 6th. Best, Wendy J. Kisch Reviewer Chair, Assistant Attorney General's Advisory Committee on Diversity U.S. Department of Justice Tax Division, Financial Litigation Unit Ben Franklin Station, Box 310 Washington, DC 20044 202-307-6553 From rfarber at jw.com Tue Apr 30 14:18:45 2019 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:18:45 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] iManage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chris - Please call me off line and we can discuss. Randy Randal S. Farber Jackson Walker L.L.P. 1401 McKinney, Suite 1900 Houston, Texas 77010 713-752-4241 - Phone 713-308-4120 - Fax RFarber at JW.com Board Certified, Commercial Real Estate Law - Texas Board of Legal Specialization, Since 1996 The statements contained herein are not intended to and do not constitute an opinion as to any tax or other matter.  They are not intended or written to be used, and may not be relied upon, by you or any other person for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under any Federal tax law or otherwise. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:39 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Stewart, Christopher K Subject: [blindlaw] iManage **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER - USE CAUTION** Hi All: I'm starting at a firm in September that uses iManage, asI understand most larger firms do. In talking to one friend, I learned it's virtually inaccessible. So, to those of you litigating at firms that use it, I'd love to hear your work-arounds. Thanks, chris -- Chris K. Stewart Attorney at Law KBA #97351 Ph: (502)457-1757 _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Apr 30 14:43:52 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 10:43:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] iManage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, exactly. We use Desk Cite. Most larger firms do, as it's more "robust." Put in scare quotes, because every sighted person I know absolutely hates it. The scripts James and Angie mention only work with file cite. To my knowledge, iManage has no plans to make desk cite even remotely workable. At least, that's what they rather candidly told us. Chris, Virtual Visions also has scripts that they can make for you. I started the process of trying to get file rather than desk cite on my computer in September. Here we are in May and... well... I trust yall can fill in the details. Perhaps NABL should throw its weight behind getting this database accessible too, as Chris is right that it is by far the largest DMS maker out there. But that will have to be someone else's battle. haha. Laura On 4/30/19, Farber, Randy via BlindLaw wrote: > Chris - Please call me off line and we can discuss. > > Randy > > Randal S. Farber > Jackson Walker L.L.P. > 1401 McKinney, Suite 1900 > Houston, Texas 77010 > 713-752-4241 - Phone > 713-308-4120 - Fax > RFarber at JW.com > > Board Certified, Commercial Real Estate Law - Texas Board of Legal > Specialization, Since 1996 > The statements contained herein are not intended to and do not constitute an > opinion as to any tax or other matter.  They are not intended or written to > be used, and may not be relied upon, by you or any other person for the > purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under any Federal tax law > or otherwise. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Stewart, > Christopher K via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:39 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: Stewart, Christopher K > Subject: [blindlaw] iManage > > **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER - USE CAUTION** > > Hi All: > > I'm starting at a firm in September that uses iManage, asI understand > most larger firms do. In talking to one friend, I learned it's > virtually inaccessible. So, to those of you litigating at firms that > use it, I'd love to hear your work-arounds. > > Thanks, > chris > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > Attorney at Law > KBA #97351 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Apr 30 19:17:00 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:17:00 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [DRBA] Attorney Position at Disability Rights Connecticut (CT P&A) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <068701d4ff89$49d6bfc0$dd843f40$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: Disability Rights Bar Association On Behalf Of Kasey Considine Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 10:05 AM To: DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Subject: [DRBA] Attorney Position at Disability Rights Connecticut (CT P&A) Hi everyone, Disability Rights Connecticut (DRCT) is hiring a staff attorney. The application deadline is May 31, so please feel free to share widely :) I’ve attached a PDF with the job description, a link to the website https://www.disrightsct.org/job-openings and have included the information below. Thank you! JOB OPENINGS Staff Attorney - Click here for the position in a .pdf format The Staff Attorney advocates on behalf of children and adults with disabilities. This position reports to the Legal Director of Disability Rights Connecticut, Inc. (“DRCT”). This is a full time position. About DRCT Disability Rights Connecticut, Inc. (“DRCT”) is an independent, nonprofit organization dedicated to advancing the civil and human rights of persons with disabilities in Connecticut. DRCT’s mission is to advocate, educate, investigate and pursue legal, administrative, and other appropriate remedies to advance and protect the civil rights of citizens with disabilities to participate equally and fully in all facets of community life in Connecticut. DRCT is a statewide organization authorized by federal law and funded by the Developmental Disabilities Assistance and Bill of Rights Act, the Rehabilitation Act, and Social Security Act and the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. JOB DESCRIPTION The responsibilities of the person in this position will include: * Individual and systemic advocacy or representation to ensure protection of the rights of eligible clients in formal and informal legal and administrative proceedings, including conducting client and other interviews, identifying issues, determining course of action, developing and implementing appropriate legal strategies both within DRCT and with outside counsel, negotiating solutions to problems, and/or encouraging self-advocacy, when appropriate. Emphasis of this position will be on systemic advocacy so as to benefit the most individuals. * Supervise advocates with oversight from the Legal Director. * Analyze existing cases and other complaints and materials to determine if they present systemic issues which may be appropriate for DRCT to address systemically, and, with the Legal Director, formulate broad strategies for their prevention, reduction, elimination or promotion. This includes significant participation in developing and conducting class action litigation in state and federal court, and the use of media and other strategies in support of such litigation. * Analyze existing cases and other situations to determine if they present systemic issues which may be appropriate for DRCT to address, and, with the Legal Director, formulate strategies for their prevention, reduction or elimination. * Work with outside counsel to develop and act as co-counsel in class action and systemic impact litigation. * Act in accordance with identified mission, priorities and goals of DRCT. * Consult with professionals such as attorneys, physicians, psychologists, therapists, educators, and others to identify options and barriers for individuals and groups and prepare cases for litigation. * Assist people with disabilities in advocacy and systems change efforts. * Create and participate on task forces, coalitions and committees as assigned, as well as conduct training and outreach activities. * Supervise advocates, assist with facility monitoring, address allegations or complaints of abuse and neglect from people with disabilities, family members, friends or other concerned parties in state and private facilities such as hospitals, nursing homes and community facilities. * Maintain accurate, confidential files that document legal services provided. * Assist in preparing reports to funding sources. * Maintain accurate time records and client records, including accurate use of the Disability Advocacy Database (DAD), which is necessary for DRCT to meet its programmatic and fiscal responsibilities, and to obtain prevailing party attorney fees when appropriate. * Perform related tasks consistent with skills, abilities, and general responsibilities as required to support DRCT. * Travel throughout Connecticut and outside Connecticut as necessary to perform assigned job tasks. Minimum qualifications for this position include: * Juris Doctorate degree from an accredited law school or other law school approved by the Connecticut Supreme Court. * Active Connecticut law license or at least five years’ practice while admitted to the bar of another state.(Admission to the Connecticut Bar within 12 months of employment is required and is the responsibility of the applicant) * A minimum of five 5 years of substantial litigation experience (or significant experience in class action civil rights or disability law litigation) representing plaintiffs. Legal clerkships may be counted as up to one year of litigation experience. * Ability to take a lead role in case planning and management. * A demonstrated ability to handle routine and complex litigation in state and federal courts * Experience in working with and for people with disabilities. * Knowledge of the disability services system in Connecticut. * Excellent oral and written communication skills. * Ability to work efficiently, independently and collaboratively. Demonstrated interest and commitment to public interest law. The Staff Attorney should also demonstrate competence in the following: * Behave ethically * Support diversity * Build relationships * Communicate effectively * Focus on client needs * Demonstrate professionalism * Make decisions * Organize priorities, work, progress, data and activities * Work collaboratively, including with outside counsel employed by other organizations * Solve problems DISCLAIMER This position description serves as a general summary and overview of the major duties and responsibilities of the job. It is not intended to represent the entirety of the job nor is it intended to be all-inclusive. Management reserves the right to modify, or rescind, this position description at any time, with or without prior notice. TO APPLY Applications must include: (a) a letter expressing your interest in the position, your qualifications, and how you might contribute to the future of DRCT; (b) a current resume including the names and contact information of three references. Materials should be submitted in Microsoft Word or PDF format. Applications must be emailed to Catherine Cushman, DRCT Legal Director, by 4:00 PM on May 31, 2019. Her email address is Catherine.Cushman at disrightsct.org. ************************************** DRCT is a fair employment practices/equal opportunity/disability accessible employer committed to maintaining a diverse workplace. We value diversity of culture, disability and other life experiences and are an equal opportunity employer by choice. Qualified candidates from diverse personal, cultural, and ethnic backgrounds are encouraged to apply. DRCT also complies with the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Connecticut Fair Employment Practices Act and is committed to providing reasonable accommodations to qualified applicants and employees with disabilities. Job Type: Full-time Updated 4/2/2019 Kasey Considine Pronoun: she/her Staff Attorney (860) 297-4300 ext. 113 Kasey.Considine at disrightsct.org Disability Rights Connecticut 846 Wethersfield Ave. Hartford, CT 06114 Telephone: (860) 297-4300 (voice) | (800) 842-7303 (toll-free CT) | (860) 509-4992 (videophone) Fax: (860) 296-0055 FRAGRANCE FREE: Disability Right Connecticut (DRCT) is a Fragrance Free Environment. Thank you for not using cologne, aftershave lotion, perfume, perfumed hand lotions, perfumed deodorants and/or other similar products when coming to the office or attending DRCT sponsored events. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic message is confidential and solely for the use of the recipient(s) and Disability Rights Connecticut. Its contents may be protected from disclosure by attorney-client privilege, the work-product doctrine, or federal law governing confidentiality of information held by the Protection and Advocacy system. See, e.g., 45 C.F.R. sec. 1326.28; 42 U.S.C. 10806(a); 42 C.F.R. 51.45(a). Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. REMINDER: The DRBA listserv is intended to facilitate open discussion and sharing of ideas. Members need to feel confident that their discussions will not be distributed beyond the group unnecessarily. PLEASE CONSULT WITH THE SENDER(S) BEFORE FORWARDING ANY LISTSERV DISCUSSIONS BEYOND THE DRBA GROUP. DONATE: The DRBA is a valuable free resource to its members. But the DRBA does have expenses for management, web and listserv services. PLEASE DONATE TODAY any amount you wish Online at http://GiveToSU.com Select “Burton Blatt Institute Fund” from the “My gift is designated to” drop down menu and indicate “DRBA” in the “Gift is to be used for” box. BRIEF BANK: Are you sharing briefs, interrogatories, decisions or other non-confidential resources on this listserv? ARCHIVE them for all present and future members by logging in to the DRBA website, going to the MEMBERS AREA and selecting ONLINE DOCUMENT DATABASE for further instructions. Contact DRBA-Law at law.syr.edu for login credentials and related help. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 10648 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AttyJobDescription4.29.19.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 474864 bytes Desc: not available URL: