[blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes

Fri Apr 12 05:17:55 UTC 2019

I have a similar problem in tables.  I often can not select words or rows. 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 8:58 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track Changes

**RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION**

I brought this issue to their attention too.  Comments, footnotes,
headers and footers, and textboxes are all controlled by the same
"structure," whatever that means, so it's not surprising that it
happens across all of those features.  it also means, in theory
anyway, that one fix should solve the problem globally.

Please let me know of anything else that comes up.

Shannon, as for your randomly not being able to delete comments, I
think sighted people have this problem too with phantom comments that
won't delete until you hit delete all comments in document.

On 4/11/19, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Yes. I have been having the same issues with comments. This demonstrates the
> level of carelessness and lack of focus that exist at Freedomscientific.
> JAWS is almost a joke for us working professionals.
>
>
>
> Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:42 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Shannon Dillon
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blindlaw editing comments with Jaws and Track
> Changes
>
> I noticed the other day when I was trying to edit text in a comment, that it
> hi had The same problem as I do in footnotes. I can’t select words. As I
> press control shift right arrow, or shift right arrow, the word or character
> is selected and then and selected. So I can never select a block of text
> been deleted. I have to use the delete key by itself and go through to
> delete the whole comment. I was wondering if anyone else also has a problem
> getting into an already written comment to edit it. And do you have problems
> deleting comments? I have problems with both of these things. I can create a
> new comment. But I am an able to get into a comment I have  written to edit
> it.
> And I can’t always delete comments. When I do I’m not exactly sure how I was
> able to make it happen. It’s a total fluke.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 23, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I experience this issue with PDFs as well.
>>
>> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul
>> Bajaj
>> via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 9:58 AM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj <rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com>; tim at timeldermusic.com
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes
>>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> 1. First of all, let me say how glad I am that this issue is getting the
>> much-needed attention that it deserves. Until a few months ago, Freedom
>> Scientific simply refused to acknowledge that the sporadic functioning of
>> the virtual viewer for accessing a list of revisions was an issue which
>> they
>> could address. It was only after some of us reached out to them that we
>> were
>> able to move past the point where JAWS would simply say that there were no
>> revisions in a document when the number of revisions exceeded 100. So I am
>> confident that we will be able to get all outstanding issues resolved if
>> we
>> are able to make good the claim that the inaccessibility of track changes
>> impacts a critical mass of blind people.
>>
>> 2. I echo the challenges that Laura voiced in using footnotes - the
>> general
>> sluggishness of JAWS, coupled with the fact that it is very difficult to
>> edit them or to ascertain their number.
>> 3. One significant issue which I have been grappling with for the last
>> 3-4 months is the inaccessibility of PDF documents with JAWS - when used
>> with Adobe Reader, JAWS throws you back by many pages if you try going up
>> a
>> line and doesn't enable you to read a document in a para-wise fashion. All
>> that you can realistically do, except for using the OCR feature or
>> converting the document into Word, is to use the say-all command or
>> navigate
>> the document line-by-line, both of which are highly inefficient ways to
>> read
>> a document. I reached out to Vispero about this, and they attributed the
>> problem to Adobe. I have been communicating with Adobe accessibility team
>> for the last month, but they haven't really taken this issue seriously, as
>> it appears that not many people have reported the issue. So I
>> wholeheartedly
>> agree with Laura when she says that we need to act collectively on these
>> issues, if we want to be taken seriously.
>>
>> I am happy to help in whatever way I can, including by way of supplying a
>> sample document with many revisions in it.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rahul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table
>> style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
>>    <tr>
>>        <td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
>> href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut
>> m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
>> target="_blank"><img
>> src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.p
>> ng"
>> alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
>> /></a></td>
>>        <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e;
>> font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
>> line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
>> href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut
>> m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
>> target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a>
>>        </td>
>>    </tr>
>> </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
>> height="1"></a></div>
>>
>>> On 19/12/2018, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> I appreciate this so much.  Please let me know if you'd like any
>>> assistance.  Regarding what to put in the letter, do other people also
>>> have the experience, as I do, that Jaws will read both the original
>>> and edited text when you're reading through a document?  This didn't
>>> used to happen to me, but now it does.  I'm using Office 2016, Windows
>>> 10, and hte latest version of Jaws.  Additionally, I find that Jaws
>>> doesn't always announce "revision" when it detects track changes.  Can
>>> others confirm?  This has the end result that relying on the file's
>>> contents rather than the generated list also does not give the user
>>> accurate information unless he engages in rather cumbersome
>>> character-by-character analysis.
>>>
>>> For the record, I did a bit more poking around on my file.  I tried
>>> hitting ctrl+end as Rahul suggested, and that actually turned out
>>> fewer revisions.  The list also only went to page 9 of a 25-page
>>> document.  It gave me 154 revisions, when there were probably closer
>>> to 400, and of course, as always, absolutely no info from footnotes.
>>>
>>> If no one else is able to assist, I will attempt to generate a file
>>> with a few hundred track changes for FS to work with.  Perhaps this
>>> could accompany the NABL letter.
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>> On 12/18/18, Scott C. LaBarre <slabarre at labarrelaw.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest
>>>> and I am going to work on a letter from the National Association of
>>>> Blind Lawyers to VFO about this issue and will likely also write
>>>> MicroSoft.  Let me also take this moment to wish all of you the very
>>>> best  of this holiday season.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tim Elder
>>>> via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 5:01 PM
>>>> To: 'Laura Wolk' <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List'
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes
>>>>
>>>> Understood.  I forwarded this to a contact at Microsoft to see if
>>>> they could do anything while we wait on whatever the developer of
>>>> JAWS is calling itself these days.  I've also been slowly learning
>>>> NVDA to diversify my technology tools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 6:25 PM
>>>> To: tim at timeldermusic.com
>>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Not an option. And though 2010 didn't crash nearly as much as
>>>> the newer versions, it still couldn't handle documents with more than
>>>> a hundred or so revisions. Which, you know, is basically every round
>>>> of editing a brief or large filing of any kind. Using 2010 was my
>>>> work-around for 6 years. But I'm really getting fed up. It'd be great
>>>> if we all colectively could put pressure on Jaws to actually give us
>>>> the tools we need to succeed and be on equal footing with our peers.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 17, 2018, at 8:05 PM, <tim at timeldermusic.com>
>>>> <tim at timeldermusic.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Track changes in newly created Word documents still work reliably in
>>>> Office 2010 if using an older machine for this kind of task is an
>>>> option.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:22 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Update on Jaws and Track Changes
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm providing an update to this topic, as it generated a lot of
>>>>> traffic
>>>> and I'd love to spare another lawyer the risk of relying on this
>>>> $1,000 disappointment to his professional detriment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jaws still does not announce the correct number of revisions.
>>>>> Instead, after taking up to 30 or 45 seconds sometimes, it will
>>>>> announce a
>>>> much larger number that still isn't always accurate.  This is
>>>> actually worse than when it simply said there were no revisions to
>>>> display, since we all knew that was incorrect.  now it gives the
>>>> false sense of security that you have, in fact, looked at every
>>>> revision when there could be a hundred more that are not displaying
>>>> that you haven't reviewed.  note that though this isn't a terrible
>>>> inconvenience when you are integrating all changes into one draft
>>>> from only one document, it is a huge problem if you are receiving
>>>> multiple streams of edits from multiple sources that you are trying
>>>> to accept/reject and then compile into one final draft.  So be
>>>> forewarned, Jaws is sstill failing abysmally at providing us with the
>>>> elementary tools needed in 2018 to maintain "Job access."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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