From amarjain at amarjain.com Thu Aug 1 14:18:08 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 19:48:08 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] ADA Title 3 judgments for compelling private players towards digital accessibility or meaning of full and equal enjoyment/non-discrimination Message-ID: <5DD3D131-7C08-45FD-8462-306BC11599E8@amarjain.com> Dear all, I am Amar Jain, a qualified Indian lawyer. In order to give a push to digital accessibility in India through judicial pronouncements, we are looking at other jurisdictions’ judgements on how discrimination, or full and equal enjoyment have been interpreted by courts. In nutshell, we are trying to come up with something close to Dominos case. I would be greatful if someone can share or point us to ADA’s judgments on these aspects under Title 3 regulations, or anything similar that you are aware of. Also, any leads on attorneys / activists working on implementing accessibility especially for private players would be appreciated. Just would like to caution that alternate dispute resolution for accessibility is not implementable in India given the country’s preparedness on this mechanism other than commercial disputes. So, the solutions have to come up from judicial pronouncements or any effort in that direction. Thank you. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 15:15:34 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 20:45:34 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] ADA Title 3 judgments for compelling private players towards digital accessibility or meaning of full and equal enjoyment/non-discrimination In-Reply-To: <5DD3D131-7C08-45FD-8462-306BC11599E8@amarjain.com> References: <5DD3D131-7C08-45FD-8462-306BC11599E8@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Amar, the Canadian Supreme Court’s Eldridge judgment might be useful. It concerned providing sign language interpreters to deaf patients by a private hospital. It was held that Sec. 15 of the Charter - the equality clause - applied to them, even though they were a private entity. They ruled in the claimant’s favour. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 1, 2019, at 7:48 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: > > Dear all, > > I am Amar Jain, a qualified Indian lawyer. > > In order to give a push to digital accessibility in India through judicial pronouncements, we are looking at other jurisdictions’ judgements on how discrimination, or full and equal enjoyment have been interpreted by courts. In nutshell, we are trying to come up with something close to Dominos case. > > I would be greatful if someone can share or point us to ADA’s judgments on these aspects under Title 3 regulations, or anything similar that you are aware of. Also, any leads on attorneys / activists working on implementing accessibility especially for private players would be appreciated. Just would like to caution that alternate dispute resolution for accessibility is not implementable in India given the country’s preparedness on this mechanism other than commercial disputes. So, the solutions have to come up from judicial pronouncements or any effort in that direction. > > Thank you. > > Regards, > Amar Jain > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Thu Aug 1 15:35:04 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 15:35:04 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Canadian accessibility vs. US In-Reply-To: References: <5DD3D131-7C08-45FD-8462-306BC11599E8@amarjain.com> Message-ID: <06BDBE83-4044-4663-861B-61D9524976FE@mail.broward.edu> Rahul: I have a question related to the Canadian Supreme Court’s Eldridge judgment you posted about in another thread. Is the Sec. 15 ruling similar to the US Supreme Court’s Craig & Mullins v. Masterpiece Cakeshop, Inc where it is a general ruling on civil rights regulations or is it more similar to the National Federation of the Blind v. Target Corp Case where the ruling applies only to people with disabilities and the underlying ADA? (I’m curious since Canada doesn’t have an equivalent law from my understanding.) On Aug 1, 2019, at 11:15 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. ________________________________ Amar, the Canadian Supreme Court’s Eldridge judgment might be useful. It concerned providing sign language interpreters to deaf patients by a private hospital. It was held that Sec. 15 of the Charter - the equality clause - applied to them, even though they were a private entity. They ruled in the claimant’s favour. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2019, at 7:48 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw > wrote: Dear all, I am Amar Jain, a qualified Indian lawyer. In order to give a push to digital accessibility in India through judicial pronouncements, we are looking at other jurisdictions’ judgements on how discrimination, or full and equal enjoyment have been interpreted by courts. In nutshell, we are trying to come up with something close to Dominos case. I would be greatful if someone can share or point us to ADA’s judgments on these aspects under Title 3 regulations, or anything similar that you are aware of. Also, any leads on attorneys / activists working on implementing accessibility especially for private players would be appreciated. Just would like to caution that alternate dispute resolution for accessibility is not implementable in India given the country’s preparedness on this mechanism other than commercial disputes. So, the solutions have to come up from judicial pronouncements or any effort in that direction. Thank you. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C81cb02caf6d844166edf08d716934a9d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002694173315594&sdata=WNRb9NjTsYEvN92pCCPCYWMUhTyE7RVmoTmIuWF1%2BXE%3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Frahul.bajaj1038%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C81cb02caf6d844166edf08d716934a9d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002694173315594&sdata=cELuyx1wY7kTb3FJPu9aB0AqiQCtt0uz8d2mJnOEkBQ%3D&reserved=0= _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C81cb02caf6d844166edf08d716934a9d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002694173315594&sdata=WNRb9NjTsYEvN92pCCPCYWMUhTyE7RVmoTmIuWF1%2BXE%3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C81cb02caf6d844166edf08d716934a9d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002694173325588&sdata=uUOtWcfn9jXiORnmcaH4rJCf6kXvf07zeeJ93RUrxD8%3D&reserved=0= From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Aug 1 15:48:14 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 15:48:14 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Recruitment for a General Attorney, GS-0905-11/12 FPL: 13 in the DC-Metro OfficeU.S. Department of education Office for Civil Rights Message-ID: See below link for OCR's GS-0905-11/12 (FPL 13,) General Attorney vacancy in the Metro office. The announcement opened on 8/1/2019 and closes on 8/14/2019. ANNOUNCEMENT: OCR-HQ-2019-0044 https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/541284400 From paezja at mail.broward.edu Thu Aug 1 15:52:14 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 15:52:14 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Recruitment for a General Attorney, GS-0905-11/12 FPL: 13 in the DC-Metro OfficeU.S. Department of education Office for Civil Rights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just an FYI the URL came across messed up, with a lot of % signs in the www part. > On Aug 1, 2019, at 11:48 AM, Nightingale, Noel via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > See below link for OCR's GS-0905-11/12 (FPL 13,) General Attorney vacancy in the Metro office. > > The announcement opened on 8/1/2019 and closes on 8/14/2019. > > ANNOUNCEMENT: OCR-HQ-2019-0044 > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usajobs.gov%2FGetJob%2FViewDetails%2F541284400&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cc44a9e880ec14155e8ac08d71697e695%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002713971296182&sdata=QklFznFStjBbEPUvM5RlOMjpVi0LVVMzw8eh8QK2L5k%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cc44a9e880ec14155e8ac08d71697e695%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002713971296182&sdata=Bgbm9YIIeccat5nBWUy9LgWPLvpKa6tkhwHBzjPDWG4%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cc44a9e880ec14155e8ac08d71697e695%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002713971296182&sdata=1EhfdN%2FtcBTl3ee8yeRcL%2B%2BcoKlrUnuHX9JV8KOxoc8%3D&reserved=0= From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Thu Aug 1 15:54:35 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 21:24:35 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] Canadian accessibility vs. US In-Reply-To: <06BDBE83-4044-4663-861B-61D9524976FE@mail.broward.edu> References: <5DD3D131-7C08-45FD-8462-306BC11599E8@amarjain.com> <06BDBE83-4044-4663-861B-61D9524976FE@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: <908DD4CA-0715-4F62-9E12-E5E9BFDCED76@gmail.com> The former. I am not familiar with the nfb judgment you reference. But eldridge exclusively involved the application of the constitutional equality guarantee embodied in sec. 15 rather than a disability rights law. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 1, 2019, at 9:05 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Rahul: > I have a question related to the Canadian Supreme Court’s Eldridge judgment you posted about in another thread. > Is the Sec. 15 ruling similar to the US Supreme Court’s Craig & Mullins v. Masterpiece Cakeshop, Inc where it is a general ruling on civil rights regulations or is it more similar to the National Federation of the Blind v. Target Corp Case where the ruling applies only to people with disabilities and the underlying ADA? > (I’m curious since Canada doesn’t have an equivalent law from my understanding.) > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 1, 2019, at 11:15 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > Amar, the Canadian Supreme Court’s Eldridge judgment might be useful. It concerned providing sign language interpreters to deaf patients by a private hospital. It was held that Sec. 15 of the Charter - the equality clause - applied to them, even though they were a private entity. They ruled in the claimant’s favour. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 1, 2019, at 7:48 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw > wrote: > > Dear all, > > I am Amar Jain, a qualified Indian lawyer. > > In order to give a push to digital accessibility in India through judicial pronouncements, we are looking at other jurisdictions’ judgements on how discrimination, or full and equal enjoyment have been interpreted by courts. In nutshell, we are trying to come up with something close to Dominos case. > > I would be greatful if someone can share or point us to ADA’s judgments on these aspects under Title 3 regulations, or anything similar that you are aware of. Also, any leads on attorneys / activists working on implementing accessibility especially for private players would be appreciated. Just would like to caution that alternate dispute resolution for accessibility is not implementable in India given the country’s preparedness on this mechanism other than commercial disputes. So, the solutions have to come up from judicial pronouncements or any effort in that direction. > > Thank you. > > Regards, > Amar Jain > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C81cb02caf6d844166edf08d716934a9d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002694173315594&sdata=WNRb9NjTsYEvN92pCCPCYWMUhTyE7RVmoTmIuWF1%2BXE%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Frahul.bajaj1038%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C81cb02caf6d844166edf08d716934a9d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002694173315594&sdata=cELuyx1wY7kTb3FJPu9aB0AqiQCtt0uz8d2mJnOEkBQ%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C81cb02caf6d844166edf08d716934a9d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002694173315594&sdata=WNRb9NjTsYEvN92pCCPCYWMUhTyE7RVmoTmIuWF1%2BXE%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C81cb02caf6d844166edf08d716934a9d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637002694173325588&sdata=uUOtWcfn9jXiORnmcaH4rJCf6kXvf07zeeJ93RUrxD8%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From sai at fiatfiendum.org Fri Aug 2 08:08:06 2019 From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 09:08:06 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 Message-ID: https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/dominos-pizza-llc-v-robles/ QP: Whether websites & apps have to be blind-accessible. CA9 below said yes. A bunch of amici have filed even on the cert petition. Seems likely to have widespread impacts, including on issues y'all litigate. Would suggest you get in on amici pro respondent if you can. Deadline August 14 — and August 4 to get parties' consent. Sup. Ct. R. 34(2)(a) Sincerely, Sai Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and autocorrect errors. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Aug 2 14:43:04 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 08:43:04 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <054901d54940$98273aa0$c875afe0$@labarrelaw.com> From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 5:57 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Good morning, What's new? The online application for the Attorney General's Honors Program (HP) and the Summer Law Intern Program (SLIP) opened July 31, 2019. The deadline for law students and eligible graduates to apply is Sunday, September 8, 2019. The Attorney General's Honors Program has been recognized as the nation's premier entry-level federal attorney recruitment program. HP information, including participating components, eligibility guidelines, and application instructions can be found at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/entry-level-attorneys. Information about SLIP and a link to the application is at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/summer-law-intern-program. Please spread the word about these exciting legal hiring programs and opportunities to join the U.S. Department of Justice! Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. The Department of Justice office places a high value on diversity of experiences and perspectives and encourages applications from all qualified men and women from all ethnic and racial backgrounds, veterans, LGBT individuals, and persons with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. Manage Your Email: If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. If you would like to update your contact information, please submit the following information: SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: Attorney Vacancies & Volunteer Legal Internships Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of West Virginia Job Title AUSA State West Virginia Posted/ Updated August 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of California Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State California Posted/ Updated August 1, 2019 Hiring Organization Environment and Natural Resources Division (ENRD) Job Title Summer 2020 Law Clerk State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated August 1, 2019 Hiring Organization Environment and Natural Resources Division (ENRD) Job Title Spring 2020 Law Clerk State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated August 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Middle District of Louisiana Job Title Assistant U. S. Attorney - Criminal Division State Louisiana Posted/ Updated July 31, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Middle District of Louisiana Job Title Assistant United States Attorney - Civil Division State Louisiana Posted/ Updated July 31, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Middle District of Louisiana Job Title Assistant U. S. Attorney - Appellate State Louisiana Posted/ Updated July 31, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of Texas Job Title Attorney State Texas Posted/ Updated July 31, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Wisconsin Job Title Criminal Assistant United States Attorney State Wisconsin Posted/ Updated July 31, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Intermittent Legal Advisor, China State Posted/ Updated July 31, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of Texas Job Title Attorney State Texas Posted/ Updated July 31, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of Texas Job Title Attorney State Texas Posted/ Updated July 31, 2019 Hiring Organization Environment and Natural Resources Division (ENRD) Job Title Trial Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated July 31, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Supervisory Trial Attorney (Chief, Bank Integrity Unit) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated July 30, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Trial Attorney State Florida Posted/ Updated July 30, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Job Title Attorney Advisor State New York Posted/ Updated July 29, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Job Title General Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated July 29, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Trial Attorney State Tennessee Posted/ Updated July 29, 2019 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From laura.wolk at gmail.com Sat Aug 3 11:19:38 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 07:19:38 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? Message-ID: All, If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the skinny. My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with Vispero and Adobe on this). The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this done," and resorted back to Adobe. So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or whatever, I would be ever so grateful. thanks much, Laura From amarjain at amarjain.com Sat Aug 3 12:15:34 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 17:45:34 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me on +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). Or Whats App is also fine. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone > On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > All, > > If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling > PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the > skinny. > > My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd > documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely > typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. > Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on > my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with > no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for > reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, > in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with > Vispero and Adobe on this). > > The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY > FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a > substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, > I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," > nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically > thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this > done," and resorted back to Adobe. > > So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate > their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me > self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or > whatever, I would be ever so grateful. > > thanks much, > Laura > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Sat Aug 3 13:15:53 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 13:15:53 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] CaseText and FastCase Message-ID: Hi all. I’m taking a law library class this upcoming semester and the professor told me they use CaseText and FastCase. Anyone know if they are accessible? Thanks, Jorge From rfarber at jw.com Sat Aug 3 21:35:12 2019 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 21:35:12 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] JAWS and iManage Message-ID: All - Those of you at national convention might remember that I asked Eric Damery about making the interface between JAWS and iManage work better. This week I had a talk with Eric Damery, Glen (a JAWS Tech person from Vespero) and Elizabeth DeLuna (one of the IT persons from my office). It appears that there are three different installations of iManage that are in use. Two of them are older and are called the Classic version. They are often referred to as FileSite and DeskSite. The newer third installation is the Web based installation and is called Work 10. It is my understanding that iManage is no longer making enhancements to the two classic versions (FileSite and DeskSite) and intends to phase them out at some point. Unfortunately, I believe that these two installations are the most prevalent type of installation and it doesn't look like we can get much help from iManage on these two installations. To complicate matters, it appears that there are many hybrid installations which use Work 10 as the engine, but use FileSite or DeskSite as the user interface. Hopefully, the hybrid installations will soon migrate to full Work 10 installations as the product matures. We might be able to get iManage to team up with Vespero to make some enhancements in the Work 10 installation to make it easier to use with JAWS. Therefore, I am gathering and cataloguing information about the problems that we are having with JAWS and iManage. If you are having problems with iManage and JAWS, please contact me off-line at Rfarber at JW.com or 713-752-4241, and let me know three things: 1. Which installation of iManage you are using (FileSite, DeskSite, or Work 10) 2. Which version of JAWS you are using, and 3. The problem(s) that you are having. Randy Randal S. Farber Jackson Walker L.L.P. 1401 McKinney, Suite 1900 Houston, Texas 77010 713-752-4241 - Phone 713-308-4120 - Fax RFarber at JW.com [Randy_farber1] Board Certified, Commercial Real Estate Law - Texas Board of Legal Specialization, Since 1996 The statements contained herein are not intended to and do not constitute an opinion as to any tax or other matter. They are not intended or written to be used, and may not be relied upon, by you or any other person for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under any Federal tax law or otherwise. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 6348 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Farber, Randal S .vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 425 bytes Desc: Farber, Randal S .vcf URL: From Starry_sky at live.com Sun Aug 4 02:20:32 2019 From: Starry_sky at live.com (Starry Sky) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 02:20:32 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Assistance request for ADA compliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If memory serves, there was something last year about an NFB lawsuit against a medical facility for refusal to accommodate and comply with the ADA? Could someone please provide the details? I am trying to learn more about that case and the outcome, if any yet. Is the facility now in compliance? Unfortunately, the same is happening at another facility but the irony is that this medical facility claims to be one of the top eye/vision hospitals in the country so you would think that they could be more sensitive to the needs of people with vision issues or loss. They have knowingly refused to comply with the ADA to the point of denying medical appointment/care or information if questioning or complaining. And now in addition to non-compliance, they are now implementing internal policies to force their staff to enforce that refusal to comply. It feels they are actually being retaliatory to the complaint especially during a time where critical medical decisions have to be made. I would really appreciate if anyone can offer any guidance in helping gain compliance. Being a vision-focused facility, their decisions and refusal has significant impact to all of us - especially if other facilities use them as a standard in meeting the needs of people with vision loss or other disabilities. Thank you in advance for any information or assistance! From amarjain at amarjain.com Sun Aug 4 02:01:21 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 07:31:21 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] JAWS and iManage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Randy, The web based installation works much better. I will have a team of IManage guys on August 8th, so feel free to drop me a list of whatever problems you are able to identify and we can work collectively. I will have the product specifics later this week after the upgrade is done. From what I know, it will be a combination of work and file site. IManage 10.2. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone > On 04-Aug-2019, at 3:05 AM, Farber, Randy via BlindLaw wrote: > > All - > > Those of you at national convention might remember that I asked Eric Damery about making the interface between JAWS and iManage work better. This week I had a talk with Eric Damery, Glen (a JAWS Tech person from Vespero) and Elizabeth DeLuna (one of the IT persons from my office). > > It appears that there are three different installations of iManage that are in use. Two of them are older and are called the Classic version. They are often referred to as FileSite and DeskSite. The newer third installation is the Web based installation and is called Work 10. It is my understanding that iManage is no longer making enhancements to the two classic versions (FileSite and DeskSite) and intends to phase them out at some point. Unfortunately, I believe that these two installations are the most prevalent type of installation and it doesn't look like we can get much help from iManage on these two installations. To complicate matters, it appears that there are many hybrid installations which use Work 10 as the engine, but use FileSite or DeskSite as the user interface. Hopefully, the hybrid installations will soon migrate to full Work 10 installations as the product matures. > > We might be able to get iManage to team up with Vespero to make some enhancements in the Work 10 installation to make it easier to use with JAWS. Therefore, I am gathering and cataloguing information about the problems that we are having with JAWS and iManage. If you are having problems with iManage and JAWS, please contact me off-line at Rfarber at JW.com or 713-752-4241, and let me know three things: > > > 1. Which installation of iManage you are using (FileSite, DeskSite, or Work 10) > > 2. Which version of JAWS you are using, and > > 3. The problem(s) that you are having. > > > Randy > > Randal S. Farber > Jackson Walker L.L.P. > 1401 McKinney, Suite 1900 > Houston, Texas 77010 > 713-752-4241 - Phone > 713-308-4120 - Fax > RFarber at JW.com > [Randy_farber1] > Board Certified, Commercial Real Estate Law - Texas Board of Legal Specialization, Since 1996 > The statements contained herein are not intended to and do not constitute an opinion as to any tax or other matter. They are not intended or written to be used, and may not be relied upon, by you or any other person for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under any Federal tax law or otherwise. > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Sun Aug 4 02:32:40 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 02:32:40 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Assistance request for ADA compliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F6D1EAF-9BA5-4F01-B164-3DE54C49CBE2@mail.broward.edu> Is this Bascom Palmer? Just curious since that’s the first name that comes to my mind when I hear you talk about the top hospital in the country for vision stuff. > On Aug 3, 2019, at 10:20 PM, Starry Sky via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > If memory serves, there was something last year about an NFB lawsuit against a medical facility for refusal to accommodate and comply with the ADA? Could someone please provide the details? I am trying to learn more about that case and the outcome, if any yet. Is the facility now in compliance? > > Unfortunately, the same is happening at another facility but the irony is that this medical facility claims to be one of the top eye/vision hospitals in the country so you would think that they could be more sensitive to the needs of people with vision issues or loss. They have knowingly refused to comply with the ADA to the point of denying medical appointment/care or information if questioning or complaining. And now in addition to non-compliance, they are now implementing internal policies to force their staff to enforce that refusal to comply. It feels they are actually being retaliatory to the complaint especially during a time where critical medical decisions have to be made. > > I would really appreciate if anyone can offer any guidance in helping gain compliance. Being a vision-focused facility, their decisions and refusal has significant impact to all of us - especially if other facilities use them as a standard in meeting the needs of people with vision loss or other disabilities. > > Thank you in advance for any information or assistance! > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cd0ba600aa22c4aea91aa08d718827bf4%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637004821020972631&sdata=tL6K8ZQ34wiaknfGL5zfCZpkEOmQz9xpRUoMY5AclOs%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cd0ba600aa22c4aea91aa08d718827bf4%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637004821020972631&sdata=Psmsi3rVRIFQVkeEnTqj18vUBotkrm%2FDf6wwMnrckjU%3D&reserved=0= From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Sun Aug 4 13:59:26 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 19:29:26 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Hi Laura, I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all the time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done this yet. best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: > > I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me on +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). Or Whats App is also fine. > > Regards, > Amar Jain > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> All, >> >> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling >> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >> skinny. >> >> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on >> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with >> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for >> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, >> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >> Vispero and Adobe on this). >> >> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, >> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this >> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >> >> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >> >> thanks much, >> Laura >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From Starry_sky at live.com Sun Aug 4 16:07:53 2019 From: Starry_sky at live.com (Starry Sky) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 16:07:53 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Assistance request for ADA compliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is not my description but the facility's own claim! There are other patients with the same experiences and complaints but are afraid to rock the boat in case of being denied medical care altogether. I have already made a considerable effort to try to explain and work with them but now fear they are "doubling down" in their refusal and creating internal policies which could further limit and impact patients and our overall community and if so, this will break my heart if that is the result of my efforts so I would like to do this right. I am hoping folks on this list can identify last year's case and other similar cases and their resolutions, if any, for me to get ideas on how to proceed to get that much needed compliance. Thanks! -------- Original Message -------- Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 02:32:40 +0000 From: Jorge Paez To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Assistance request for ADA compliance Is this Bascom Palmer? Just curious since that?s the first name that comes to my mind when I hear you talk about the top hospital in the country for vision stuff. On Aug 3, 2019, at 10:20 PM, Starry Sky via BlindLaw wrote: If memory serves, there was something last year about an NFB lawsuit against a medical facility for refusal to accommodate and comply with the ADA? Could someone please provide the details? I am trying to learn more about that case and the outcome, if any yet. Is the facility now in compliance? Unfortunately, the same is happening at another facility but the irony is that this medical facility claims to be one of the top eye/vision hospitals in the country so you would think that they could be more sensitive to the needs of people with vision issues or loss. They have knowingly refused to comply with the ADA to the point of denying medical appointment/care or information if questioning or complaining. And now in addition to non-compliance, they are now implementing internal policies to force their staff to enforce that refusal to comply. It feels they are actually being retaliatory to the complaint especially during a time where critical medical decisions have to be made. I would really appreciate if anyone can offer any guidance in helping gain compliance. Being a vision-focused facility, their decisions and refusal has significant impact to all of us - especially if other facilities use them as a standard in meeting the needs of people with vision loss or other disabilities. Thank you in advance for any information or assistance! From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Sun Aug 4 16:29:20 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 12:29:20 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Laura, Please contact me offlist. I use this at work and have been experimenting; I now have a reasonably successful way of doing it. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 4, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi Laura, > > I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all the time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done this yet. best, > Rahul > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me on +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). Or Whats App is also fine. >> >> Regards, >> Amar Jain >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling >>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >>> skinny. >>> >>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on >>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with >>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for >>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, >>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>> >>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, >>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this >>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>> >>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>> >>> thanks much, >>> Laura >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From howardadelsberg at gmail.com Sun Aug 4 16:30:52 2019 From: howardadelsberg at gmail.com (Howard Adelsberg) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 12:30:52 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] New phone Message-ID: I currently have an iPhone 6s. Unfortunately I need to get a new phone and I’m curious as to the type of phones people find to be the best From laura.wolk at gmail.com Sun Aug 4 16:40:25 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 12:40:25 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> Message-ID: That's right, Rahul. Kelby, would you actually mind sharing your strategy on list? I'm sure others would be interested to know if ABBYY could serve as a work-around to Adobe's poor performance. On 8/4/19, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi Laura, > > I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all the > time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF > documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done this > yet. best, > Rahul > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me on >> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). Or >> Whats App is also fine. >> >> Regards, >> Amar Jain >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling >>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >>> skinny. >>> >>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on >>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with >>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for >>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, >>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>> >>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, >>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this >>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>> >>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>> >>> thanks much, >>> Laura >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From r.g.munro at gmail.com Sun Aug 4 17:31:24 2019 From: r.g.munro at gmail.com (Robert Munro) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 13:31:24 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] New phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I suggest buying a refurbished iPhone 8 from Apple. You won’t nee to learn any new jesters because it still has a home button. It’s also the best value for money in terms of the processor and such. Onward! Rob > On Aug 4, 2019, at 12:30, Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw wrote: > > > I currently have an iPhone 6s. Unfortunately I need to get a new phone and I’m curious as to the type of phones people find to be the best > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com From howardadelsberg at gmail.com Sun Aug 4 17:47:45 2019 From: howardadelsberg at gmail.com (Howard Adelsberg) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 13:47:45 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] New phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ty > On Aug 4, 2019, at 1:31 PM, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: > > I suggest buying a refurbished iPhone 8 from Apple. > > You won’t nee to learn any new jesters because it still has a home button. > > It’s also the best value for money in terms of the processor and such. > > Onward! > > Rob > >> On Aug 4, 2019, at 12:30, Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> >> I currently have an iPhone 6s. Unfortunately I need to get a new phone and I’m curious as to the type of phones people find to be the best >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howard.adelsberg%40gmail.com From amarjain at amarjain.com Sun Aug 4 18:14:34 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 23:44:34 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> Message-ID: <9CE76BCF-C170-43A9-B887-AC829222AA60@amarjain.com> Kelby-bulk processing for conversion? Or any other way you were referring too? There are other ways of course to make textable pdfs but I can play with it tomorrow and let the group know. Would appreciate your insites. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone > On 04-Aug-2019, at 9:59 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > Laura, > > Please contact me offlist. I use this at work and have been experimenting; I now have a reasonably successful way of doing it. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 4, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Hi Laura, >> >> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all the time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done this yet. best, >> Rahul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me on +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). Or Whats App is also fine. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Amar Jain >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> All, >>>> >>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling >>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >>>> skinny. >>>> >>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on >>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with >>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for >>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, >>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>> >>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, >>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this >>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>> >>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>> >>>> thanks much, >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com From amarjain at amarjain.com Sun Aug 4 18:21:00 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 23:51:00 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> Message-ID: <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature which even allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important observation from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed feature. Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me once please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. Cheers, AJ Sent from my iPhone > On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj wrote: > > Hi Laura, > > I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all the time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done this yet. best, > Rahul > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me on +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). Or Whats App is also fine. >> >> Regards, >> Amar Jain >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling >>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >>> skinny. >>> >>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on >>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with >>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for >>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, >>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>> >>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, >>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this >>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>> >>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>> >>> thanks much, >>> Laura >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 18:12:05 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 19:12:05 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Hello all I tend to use Nuance Omnipage to convert PDFS to text files and then to read those files. This fast, reliable and effective. The one draw back is that sometimes the page numbers can be lost, so that one is not always sure what page of a document one is reading. Any solution for that would be welcome. However, I am not sure that when say Fine Reader converts a pdf to word the word document has precisely the same page numbers as the pdf? Comments on this welcome. I am following this discussion with interest and would be really grateful if people would post solutions to the list. Kind regards Ger On 8/4/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: > RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature which even > allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important observation > from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed feature. > > Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me once > please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. > > Cheers, > AJ > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj wrote: >> >> Hi Laura, >> >> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all the >> time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF >> documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done >> this yet. best, >> Rahul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me on >>> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). Or >>> Whats App is also fine. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Amar Jain >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> All, >>>> >>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling >>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >>>> skinny. >>>> >>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on >>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with >>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for >>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, >>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>> >>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, >>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this >>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>> >>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>> >>>> thanks much, >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From paezja at mail.broward.edu Mon Aug 5 18:17:13 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 18:17:13 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] dues Message-ID: <2CE6BE5D-7CBF-4ACA-ADEC-0A43F2FCF170@mail.broward.edu> Hello all: I’m just wondering how I can become part of the Blind Law division of the NFB? I’ve tried going to the site before but the link never brings me to an actual page it just brings me to an error message. Thanks, Jorge From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 18:29:31 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:29:31 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Laura, Okay, here goes. i use NVDA, so some of the accessibility features might be slightly different. So, for example, I do not read PDFs in FineReader itself, but use Adobe after I have converted them. There are pretty easy ways to bulk convert within FineReader; from the main screen, just click on "convert to [whatever file format desired]" and then add files as necessary. You will want to go into FineReader's settings and make sure that tagging'bookmarking PDF files is checked, and that the OCR is set to "text and pictures only"--that way you will not have the original image embedded in the file, which will make it much larger. There is one important thing to be aware of, however. With some files, I have found that because of the tagging that FineReader does, when you open the converted file in Adobe, it will start you off on the last page instead of the first. There are two ways around this: either open the PDF file with FineReader's OCR editor, and when the OCR process has finished, save the file as a text-based PDF; alternatively, use "infer reading order from document" in Adobe's settings rather than tagged reading order. This does make converting PDFs in bulk trickier, unfortunately. I am trying to work with Abbyy on a fix, but so far they have not been helpful. Let me know if there are other questions. On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: > Hello all > > I tend to use Nuance Omnipage to convert PDFS to text files and then > to read those files. This fast, reliable and effective. > > The one draw back is that sometimes the page numbers can be lost, so > that one is not always sure what page of a document one is reading. > Any solution for that would be welcome. However, I am not sure that > when say Fine Reader converts a pdf to word the word document has > precisely the same page numbers as the pdf? > > Comments on this welcome. I am following this discussion with interest > and would be really grateful if people would post solutions to the > list. > > Kind regards > > Ger > > On 8/4/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >> RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature which >> even >> allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important observation >> from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed feature. >> >> Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me once >> please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. >> >> Cheers, >> AJ >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Laura, >>> >>> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all the >>> time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF >>> documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done >>> this yet. best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me on >>>> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). Or >>>> Whats App is also fine. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Amar Jain >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> All, >>>>> >>>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling >>>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >>>>> skinny. >>>>> >>>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >>>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on >>>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with >>>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for >>>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, >>>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>>> >>>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, >>>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this >>>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>>> >>>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >>>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >>>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>>> >>>>> thanks much, >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 18:47:36 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 19:47:36 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Kelby Do you mind my asking why you convert files to a different type of pdf, rather than say to a text file, a word document etc. Is this so that you can refer accurately to page numbers or is there some other reason? Kind regards Ger On 8/5/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > Laura, > > Okay, here goes. i use NVDA, so some of the accessibility features > might be slightly different. So, for example, I do not read PDFs in > FineReader itself, but use Adobe after I have converted them. There > are pretty easy ways to bulk convert within FineReader; from the main > screen, just click on "convert to [whatever file format desired]" and > then add files as necessary. > > You will want to go into FineReader's settings and make sure that > tagging'bookmarking PDF files is checked, and that the OCR is set to > "text and pictures only"--that way you will not have the original > image embedded in the file, which will make it much larger. > > There is one important thing to be aware of, however. With some files, > I have found that because of the tagging that FineReader does, when > you open the converted file in Adobe, it will start you off on the > last page instead of the first. There are two ways around this: either > open the PDF file with FineReader's OCR editor, and when the OCR > process has finished, save the file as a text-based PDF; > alternatively, use "infer reading order from document" in Adobe's > settings rather than tagged reading order. This does make converting > PDFs in bulk trickier, unfortunately. I am trying to work with Abbyy > on a fix, but so far they have not been helpful. > > Let me know if there are other questions. > > > > On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hello all >> >> I tend to use Nuance Omnipage to convert PDFS to text files and then >> to read those files. This fast, reliable and effective. >> >> The one draw back is that sometimes the page numbers can be lost, so >> that one is not always sure what page of a document one is reading. >> Any solution for that would be welcome. However, I am not sure that >> when say Fine Reader converts a pdf to word the word document has >> precisely the same page numbers as the pdf? >> >> Comments on this welcome. I am following this discussion with interest >> and would be really grateful if people would post solutions to the >> list. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Ger >> >> On 8/4/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >>> RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature which >>> even >>> allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important >>> observation >>> from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed feature. >>> >>> Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me once >>> please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> AJ >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Laura, >>>> >>>> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all >>>> the >>>> time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF >>>> documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done >>>> this yet. best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me >>>>> on >>>>> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). Or >>>>> Whats App is also fine. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Amar Jain >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> All, >>>>>> >>>>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for handling >>>>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >>>>>> skinny. >>>>>> >>>>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >>>>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>>>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>>>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch on >>>>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks with >>>>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which for >>>>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. (Note, >>>>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>>>> >>>>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. Yesterday, >>>>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>>>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get this >>>>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>>>> >>>>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >>>>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >>>>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks much, >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 19:11:19 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 15:11:19 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Hi everyone, I'm sorry for any confusion. To be clear, I just want the answer to a very simple question: Does anyone use ABBYY FineReader to **read** not convert, pdfs. Also, as I mentioned in my subject line that I am a Jaws user, not an NVDA user, I am only interested in that screenreader. The volume of pdfs per day that I need to access and the need for precision when referencing said files does not lend itself well to relying on converting to a different file type as a work-around. Besides which, I don't really have the time to sit around idly while mass file conversions take place. Again, why have we not collectively stood up and demanded the ability to reliably and consistently access PDF files? Who doesn't need to do this as a lawyer in 2019? I was not a heavy PDF user until about a month ago because I was fortunate enough to have access to K1000, but it seems that many of us have been and have been experiencing these issues for quite some time. At some point, someone needs to take the lead and try to initiate change. Thanks, Laura On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: > Kelby > > Do you mind my asking why you convert files to a different type of > pdf, rather than say to a text file, a word document etc. > > Is this so that you can refer accurately to page numbers or is there > some other reason? > > Kind regards > > Ger > > On 8/5/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> Laura, >> >> Okay, here goes. i use NVDA, so some of the accessibility features >> might be slightly different. So, for example, I do not read PDFs in >> FineReader itself, but use Adobe after I have converted them. There >> are pretty easy ways to bulk convert within FineReader; from the main >> screen, just click on "convert to [whatever file format desired]" and >> then add files as necessary. >> >> You will want to go into FineReader's settings and make sure that >> tagging'bookmarking PDF files is checked, and that the OCR is set to >> "text and pictures only"--that way you will not have the original >> image embedded in the file, which will make it much larger. >> >> There is one important thing to be aware of, however. With some files, >> I have found that because of the tagging that FineReader does, when >> you open the converted file in Adobe, it will start you off on the >> last page instead of the first. There are two ways around this: either >> open the PDF file with FineReader's OCR editor, and when the OCR >> process has finished, save the file as a text-based PDF; >> alternatively, use "infer reading order from document" in Adobe's >> settings rather than tagged reading order. This does make converting >> PDFs in bulk trickier, unfortunately. I am trying to work with Abbyy >> on a fix, but so far they have not been helpful. >> >> Let me know if there are other questions. >> >> >> >> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Hello all >>> >>> I tend to use Nuance Omnipage to convert PDFS to text files and then >>> to read those files. This fast, reliable and effective. >>> >>> The one draw back is that sometimes the page numbers can be lost, so >>> that one is not always sure what page of a document one is reading. >>> Any solution for that would be welcome. However, I am not sure that >>> when say Fine Reader converts a pdf to word the word document has >>> precisely the same page numbers as the pdf? >>> >>> Comments on this welcome. I am following this discussion with interest >>> and would be really grateful if people would post solutions to the >>> list. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Ger >>> >>> On 8/4/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature which >>>> even >>>> allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important >>>> observation >>>> from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed feature. >>>> >>>> Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me once >>>> please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> AJ >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Laura, >>>>> >>>>> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all >>>>> the >>>>> time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF >>>>> documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done >>>>> this yet. best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me >>>>>> on >>>>>> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). >>>>>> Or >>>>>> Whats App is also fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Amar Jain >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for >>>>>>> handling >>>>>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >>>>>>> skinny. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >>>>>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>>>>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>>>>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. >>>>>>> (Note, >>>>>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>>>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>>>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>>>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. >>>>>>> Yesterday, >>>>>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>>>>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>>>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >>>>>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>>>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >>>>>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks much, >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 19:17:29 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 20:17:29 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Laura My experience (in a different jurisdiction than you) is that commercial law (and probably law generally) runs on pdfs because they are secure and will look the same on any device they are read on. I think text-based pdfs can be accessed without difficulty and I'm not sure Adobe can be criticized if pdfs that are created as images are not accessible out of the box. I have to say I would not rate Kurzweil at all, though that may be a personal preference. Conversions can be carried out while on lunch or overnight. Ger On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm sorry for any confusion. To be clear, I just want the answer to a > very simple question: > > Does anyone use ABBYY FineReader to **read** not convert, pdfs. Also, > as I mentioned in my subject line that I am a Jaws user, not an NVDA > user, I am only interested in that screenreader. > > The volume of pdfs per day that I need to access and the need for > precision when referencing said files does not lend itself well to > relying on converting to a different file type as a work-around. > Besides which, I don't really have the time to sit around idly while > mass file conversions take place. Again, why have we not collectively > stood up and demanded the ability to reliably and consistently access > PDF files? Who doesn't need to do this as a lawyer in 2019? I was > not a heavy PDF user until about a month ago because I was fortunate > enough to have access to K1000, but it seems that many of us have been > and have been experiencing these issues for quite some time. At some > point, someone needs to take the lead and try to initiate change. > > Thanks, > Laura > > On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >> Kelby >> >> Do you mind my asking why you convert files to a different type of >> pdf, rather than say to a text file, a word document etc. >> >> Is this so that you can refer accurately to page numbers or is there >> some other reason? >> >> Kind regards >> >> Ger >> >> On 8/5/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> Okay, here goes. i use NVDA, so some of the accessibility features >>> might be slightly different. So, for example, I do not read PDFs in >>> FineReader itself, but use Adobe after I have converted them. There >>> are pretty easy ways to bulk convert within FineReader; from the main >>> screen, just click on "convert to [whatever file format desired]" and >>> then add files as necessary. >>> >>> You will want to go into FineReader's settings and make sure that >>> tagging'bookmarking PDF files is checked, and that the OCR is set to >>> "text and pictures only"--that way you will not have the original >>> image embedded in the file, which will make it much larger. >>> >>> There is one important thing to be aware of, however. With some files, >>> I have found that because of the tagging that FineReader does, when >>> you open the converted file in Adobe, it will start you off on the >>> last page instead of the first. There are two ways around this: either >>> open the PDF file with FineReader's OCR editor, and when the OCR >>> process has finished, save the file as a text-based PDF; >>> alternatively, use "infer reading order from document" in Adobe's >>> settings rather than tagged reading order. This does make converting >>> PDFs in bulk trickier, unfortunately. I am trying to work with Abbyy >>> on a fix, but so far they have not been helpful. >>> >>> Let me know if there are other questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Hello all >>>> >>>> I tend to use Nuance Omnipage to convert PDFS to text files and then >>>> to read those files. This fast, reliable and effective. >>>> >>>> The one draw back is that sometimes the page numbers can be lost, so >>>> that one is not always sure what page of a document one is reading. >>>> Any solution for that would be welcome. However, I am not sure that >>>> when say Fine Reader converts a pdf to word the word document has >>>> precisely the same page numbers as the pdf? >>>> >>>> Comments on this welcome. I am following this discussion with interest >>>> and would be really grateful if people would post solutions to the >>>> list. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Ger >>>> >>>> On 8/4/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature >>>>> which >>>>> even >>>>> allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important >>>>> observation >>>>> from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed feature. >>>>> >>>>> Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me once >>>>> please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> AJ >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all >>>>>> the >>>>>> time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF >>>>>> documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never >>>>>> done >>>>>> this yet. best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). >>>>>>> Or >>>>>>> Whats App is also fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Amar Jain >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for >>>>>>>> handling >>>>>>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> skinny. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and >>>>>>>> un-ocr'd >>>>>>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>>>>>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>>>>>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. >>>>>>>> (Note, >>>>>>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>>>>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>>>>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>>>>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. >>>>>>>> Yesterday, >>>>>>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>>>>>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>>>>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably >>>>>>>> donate >>>>>>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>>>>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> thanks much, >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 19:18:46 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 15:18:46 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Additionally, if anyone else uses Jaws and goes through the conversion process that Kelby describes to ultimately read the pdf in Adobe, does Adobe behave any better with respect to randomly losing its place and jumping around the file as you arrow up and down, not moving by paragraph when the proper keystroke is pressed, etc? I tried converting one file and opening it in Adobe, but it behaved precisely the same way as it did before. Thanks, Laura On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm sorry for any confusion. To be clear, I just want the answer to a > very simple question: > > Does anyone use ABBYY FineReader to **read** not convert, pdfs. Also, > as I mentioned in my subject line that I am a Jaws user, not an NVDA > user, I am only interested in that screenreader. > > The volume of pdfs per day that I need to access and the need for > precision when referencing said files does not lend itself well to > relying on converting to a different file type as a work-around. > Besides which, I don't really have the time to sit around idly while > mass file conversions take place. Again, why have we not collectively > stood up and demanded the ability to reliably and consistently access > PDF files? Who doesn't need to do this as a lawyer in 2019? I was > not a heavy PDF user until about a month ago because I was fortunate > enough to have access to K1000, but it seems that many of us have been > and have been experiencing these issues for quite some time. At some > point, someone needs to take the lead and try to initiate change. > > Thanks, > Laura > > On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >> Kelby >> >> Do you mind my asking why you convert files to a different type of >> pdf, rather than say to a text file, a word document etc. >> >> Is this so that you can refer accurately to page numbers or is there >> some other reason? >> >> Kind regards >> >> Ger >> >> On 8/5/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> Okay, here goes. i use NVDA, so some of the accessibility features >>> might be slightly different. So, for example, I do not read PDFs in >>> FineReader itself, but use Adobe after I have converted them. There >>> are pretty easy ways to bulk convert within FineReader; from the main >>> screen, just click on "convert to [whatever file format desired]" and >>> then add files as necessary. >>> >>> You will want to go into FineReader's settings and make sure that >>> tagging'bookmarking PDF files is checked, and that the OCR is set to >>> "text and pictures only"--that way you will not have the original >>> image embedded in the file, which will make it much larger. >>> >>> There is one important thing to be aware of, however. With some files, >>> I have found that because of the tagging that FineReader does, when >>> you open the converted file in Adobe, it will start you off on the >>> last page instead of the first. There are two ways around this: either >>> open the PDF file with FineReader's OCR editor, and when the OCR >>> process has finished, save the file as a text-based PDF; >>> alternatively, use "infer reading order from document" in Adobe's >>> settings rather than tagged reading order. This does make converting >>> PDFs in bulk trickier, unfortunately. I am trying to work with Abbyy >>> on a fix, but so far they have not been helpful. >>> >>> Let me know if there are other questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Hello all >>>> >>>> I tend to use Nuance Omnipage to convert PDFS to text files and then >>>> to read those files. This fast, reliable and effective. >>>> >>>> The one draw back is that sometimes the page numbers can be lost, so >>>> that one is not always sure what page of a document one is reading. >>>> Any solution for that would be welcome. However, I am not sure that >>>> when say Fine Reader converts a pdf to word the word document has >>>> precisely the same page numbers as the pdf? >>>> >>>> Comments on this welcome. I am following this discussion with interest >>>> and would be really grateful if people would post solutions to the >>>> list. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Ger >>>> >>>> On 8/4/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature >>>>> which >>>>> even >>>>> allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important >>>>> observation >>>>> from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed feature. >>>>> >>>>> Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me once >>>>> please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> AJ >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all >>>>>> the >>>>>> time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF >>>>>> documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never >>>>>> done >>>>>> this yet. best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). >>>>>>> Or >>>>>>> Whats App is also fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Amar Jain >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for >>>>>>>> handling >>>>>>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> skinny. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and >>>>>>>> un-ocr'd >>>>>>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>>>>>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>>>>>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. >>>>>>>> (Note, >>>>>>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>>>>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>>>>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>>>>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. >>>>>>>> Yesterday, >>>>>>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>>>>>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>>>>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably >>>>>>>> donate >>>>>>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>>>>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> thanks much, >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 19:22:39 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 15:22:39 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Correct. Law does run on pdfs. I previously worked at a very large law firm. Our docs were well done, as were the docs with which we interacted from opposing counsel. So adobe or the Chrome plug in gave me no problems. Not so in my current position. And Adobe and/or Vispero absolutely can be criticized for the problems that I have recently discovered and that others are raising. As for having extra time over lunch and over night, I don't expect an employer to reasonably accomodate "i'd like to get this to you today as you asked, but indeed I must wait until I have extra time to convert the materials before I can get it to you. How does tomorrow sound?" On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Additionally, if anyone else uses Jaws and goes through the conversion > process that Kelby describes to ultimately read the pdf in Adobe, does > Adobe behave any better with respect to randomly losing its place and > jumping around the file as you arrow up and down, not moving by > paragraph when the proper keystroke is pressed, etc? I tried > converting one file and opening it in Adobe, but it behaved precisely > the same way as it did before. > > Thanks, > Laura > > On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> I'm sorry for any confusion. To be clear, I just want the answer to a >> very simple question: >> >> Does anyone use ABBYY FineReader to **read** not convert, pdfs. Also, >> as I mentioned in my subject line that I am a Jaws user, not an NVDA >> user, I am only interested in that screenreader. >> >> The volume of pdfs per day that I need to access and the need for >> precision when referencing said files does not lend itself well to >> relying on converting to a different file type as a work-around. >> Besides which, I don't really have the time to sit around idly while >> mass file conversions take place. Again, why have we not collectively >> stood up and demanded the ability to reliably and consistently access >> PDF files? Who doesn't need to do this as a lawyer in 2019? I was >> not a heavy PDF user until about a month ago because I was fortunate >> enough to have access to K1000, but it seems that many of us have been >> and have been experiencing these issues for quite some time. At some >> point, someone needs to take the lead and try to initiate change. >> >> Thanks, >> Laura >> >> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Kelby >>> >>> Do you mind my asking why you convert files to a different type of >>> pdf, rather than say to a text file, a word document etc. >>> >>> Is this so that you can refer accurately to page numbers or is there >>> some other reason? >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Ger >>> >>> On 8/5/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> Okay, here goes. i use NVDA, so some of the accessibility features >>>> might be slightly different. So, for example, I do not read PDFs in >>>> FineReader itself, but use Adobe after I have converted them. There >>>> are pretty easy ways to bulk convert within FineReader; from the main >>>> screen, just click on "convert to [whatever file format desired]" and >>>> then add files as necessary. >>>> >>>> You will want to go into FineReader's settings and make sure that >>>> tagging'bookmarking PDF files is checked, and that the OCR is set to >>>> "text and pictures only"--that way you will not have the original >>>> image embedded in the file, which will make it much larger. >>>> >>>> There is one important thing to be aware of, however. With some files, >>>> I have found that because of the tagging that FineReader does, when >>>> you open the converted file in Adobe, it will start you off on the >>>> last page instead of the first. There are two ways around this: either >>>> open the PDF file with FineReader's OCR editor, and when the OCR >>>> process has finished, save the file as a text-based PDF; >>>> alternatively, use "infer reading order from document" in Adobe's >>>> settings rather than tagged reading order. This does make converting >>>> PDFs in bulk trickier, unfortunately. I am trying to work with Abbyy >>>> on a fix, but so far they have not been helpful. >>>> >>>> Let me know if there are other questions. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Hello all >>>>> >>>>> I tend to use Nuance Omnipage to convert PDFS to text files and then >>>>> to read those files. This fast, reliable and effective. >>>>> >>>>> The one draw back is that sometimes the page numbers can be lost, so >>>>> that one is not always sure what page of a document one is reading. >>>>> Any solution for that would be welcome. However, I am not sure that >>>>> when say Fine Reader converts a pdf to word the word document has >>>>> precisely the same page numbers as the pdf? >>>>> >>>>> Comments on this welcome. I am following this discussion with interest >>>>> and would be really grateful if people would post solutions to the >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> >>>>> Ger >>>>> >>>>> On 8/4/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature >>>>>> which >>>>>> even >>>>>> allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important >>>>>> observation >>>>>> from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed feature. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me >>>>>> once >>>>>> please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> AJ >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Laura, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents >>>>>>> all >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF >>>>>>> documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never >>>>>>> done >>>>>>> this yet. best, >>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in >>>>>>>> responses). >>>>>>>> Or >>>>>>>> Whats App is also fine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Amar Jain >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for >>>>>>>>> handling >>>>>>>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> skinny. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and >>>>>>>>> un-ocr'd >>>>>>>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>>>>>>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>>>>>>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not >>>>>>>>> launch >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. >>>>>>>>> (Note, >>>>>>>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>>>>>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>>>>>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>>>>>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. >>>>>>>>> Yesterday, >>>>>>>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>>>>>>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>>>>>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably >>>>>>>>> donate >>>>>>>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>>>>>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> thanks much, >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> > From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 19:31:30 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 20:31:30 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Laura There are no circumstances in which I would ask for extra time to deliver a document due to IT related issues, short of my computer actually failing. That is not what I previously suggested and frankly I am surprised both by the tone and contents of your previous message. Respectfully, in my previous email, I said that pdfs which are deliberately created as image files cannot easily be read with a screen reader and that Adobe cannot be criticized for that. As you may be aware, law firms frequently create their pdfs as scanned image files. There are a number of good reasons why this is done and indeed I usually insist on having this done myself. Short of asking Adobe to provide an OCR solution, I do not see what they can do to render those files accessible. To the extent that you may have read my previous remarks more broadly, I'm afraid you simply mis-understood the point made. I trust this clarifies my position. Kind regards Ger On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Correct. Law does run on pdfs. I previously worked at a very large > law firm. Our docs were well done, as were the docs with which we > interacted from opposing counsel. So adobe or the Chrome plug in gave > me no problems. Not so in my current position. And Adobe and/or > Vispero absolutely can be criticized for the problems that I have > recently discovered and that others are raising. As for having extra > time over lunch and over night, I don't expect an employer to > reasonably accomodate "i'd like to get this to you today as you asked, > but indeed I must wait until I have extra time to convert the > materials before I can get it to you. How does tomorrow sound?" > > > > On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Additionally, if anyone else uses Jaws and goes through the conversion >> process that Kelby describes to ultimately read the pdf in Adobe, does >> Adobe behave any better with respect to randomly losing its place and >> jumping around the file as you arrow up and down, not moving by >> paragraph when the proper keystroke is pressed, etc? I tried >> converting one file and opening it in Adobe, but it behaved precisely >> the same way as it did before. >> >> Thanks, >> Laura >> >> On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> I'm sorry for any confusion. To be clear, I just want the answer to a >>> very simple question: >>> >>> Does anyone use ABBYY FineReader to **read** not convert, pdfs. Also, >>> as I mentioned in my subject line that I am a Jaws user, not an NVDA >>> user, I am only interested in that screenreader. >>> >>> The volume of pdfs per day that I need to access and the need for >>> precision when referencing said files does not lend itself well to >>> relying on converting to a different file type as a work-around. >>> Besides which, I don't really have the time to sit around idly while >>> mass file conversions take place. Again, why have we not collectively >>> stood up and demanded the ability to reliably and consistently access >>> PDF files? Who doesn't need to do this as a lawyer in 2019? I was >>> not a heavy PDF user until about a month ago because I was fortunate >>> enough to have access to K1000, but it seems that many of us have been >>> and have been experiencing these issues for quite some time. At some >>> point, someone needs to take the lead and try to initiate change. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Laura >>> >>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Kelby >>>> >>>> Do you mind my asking why you convert files to a different type of >>>> pdf, rather than say to a text file, a word document etc. >>>> >>>> Is this so that you can refer accurately to page numbers or is there >>>> some other reason? >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Ger >>>> >>>> On 8/5/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Laura, >>>>> >>>>> Okay, here goes. i use NVDA, so some of the accessibility features >>>>> might be slightly different. So, for example, I do not read PDFs in >>>>> FineReader itself, but use Adobe after I have converted them. There >>>>> are pretty easy ways to bulk convert within FineReader; from the main >>>>> screen, just click on "convert to [whatever file format desired]" and >>>>> then add files as necessary. >>>>> >>>>> You will want to go into FineReader's settings and make sure that >>>>> tagging'bookmarking PDF files is checked, and that the OCR is set to >>>>> "text and pictures only"--that way you will not have the original >>>>> image embedded in the file, which will make it much larger. >>>>> >>>>> There is one important thing to be aware of, however. With some files, >>>>> I have found that because of the tagging that FineReader does, when >>>>> you open the converted file in Adobe, it will start you off on the >>>>> last page instead of the first. There are two ways around this: either >>>>> open the PDF file with FineReader's OCR editor, and when the OCR >>>>> process has finished, save the file as a text-based PDF; >>>>> alternatively, use "infer reading order from document" in Adobe's >>>>> settings rather than tagged reading order. This does make converting >>>>> PDFs in bulk trickier, unfortunately. I am trying to work with Abbyy >>>>> on a fix, but so far they have not been helpful. >>>>> >>>>> Let me know if there are other questions. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Hello all >>>>>> >>>>>> I tend to use Nuance Omnipage to convert PDFS to text files and then >>>>>> to read those files. This fast, reliable and effective. >>>>>> >>>>>> The one draw back is that sometimes the page numbers can be lost, so >>>>>> that one is not always sure what page of a document one is reading. >>>>>> Any solution for that would be welcome. However, I am not sure that >>>>>> when say Fine Reader converts a pdf to word the word document has >>>>>> precisely the same page numbers as the pdf? >>>>>> >>>>>> Comments on this welcome. I am following this discussion with >>>>>> interest >>>>>> and would be really grateful if people would post solutions to the >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Ger >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/4/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> even >>>>>>> allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important >>>>>>> observation >>>>>>> from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed >>>>>>> feature. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me >>>>>>> once >>>>>>> please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> AJ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents >>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read >>>>>>>> PDF >>>>>>>> documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never >>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>> this yet. best, >>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in >>>>>>>>> responses). >>>>>>>>> Or >>>>>>>>> Whats App is also fine. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Amar Jain >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for >>>>>>>>>> handling >>>>>>>>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> skinny. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and >>>>>>>>>> un-ocr'd >>>>>>>>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I >>>>>>>>>> rely >>>>>>>>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with >>>>>>>>>> Jaws. >>>>>>>>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not >>>>>>>>>> launch >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, >>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. >>>>>>>>>> (Note, >>>>>>>>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>>>>>>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>>>>>>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>>>>>>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. >>>>>>>>>> Yesterday, >>>>>>>>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading >>>>>>>>>> scans," >>>>>>>>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>>>>>>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably >>>>>>>>>> donate >>>>>>>>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>>>>>>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to >>>>>>>>>> tweak >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> thanks much, >>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> > From amatney at loeb.com Mon Aug 5 19:50:24 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 19:50:24 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the PDFs that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting files to another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In the past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. Each of these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes and give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of the file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access PDF files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours and hours. Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many files, there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the other side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately took more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which would have had to be done in any case because they were images. I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs directly. In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing vs reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally works for my purposes. I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. Best, Angie Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: amatney at loeb.com Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2157 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 20:17:36 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 21:17:36 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: > Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision > when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the PDFs > that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting files to > another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, > particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it > takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In the > past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. Each of > these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes and > give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of the > file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access PDF > files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or > another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours and > hours. > > Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many files, > there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me > before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the other > side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately took > more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which would > have had to be done in any case because they were images. > > I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs directly. > In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing vs > reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally works > for my purposes. > > I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. > > Best, > > Angie > > Angela Matney, CIPP/US > Attorney at Law > [Loeb & Loeb LLP] > Loeb and Loeb LLP > 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 > > East | Washington, DC 20001 > Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: amatney at loeb.com > > Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San > Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com > > ________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files > or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential > information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to > this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this > transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy > the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in > any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > -- null From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 21:38:11 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 17:38:11 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, the issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my point. Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it matters a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience using Nuance to batch convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful and welcome development! Thanks, Laura On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: > Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document > contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference > > On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: > >> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision >> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the >> PDFs >> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting files >> to >> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it >> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In the >> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. Each >> of >> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes and >> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of the >> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access PDF >> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours and >> hours. >> >> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many files, >> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the other >> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately took >> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which would >> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >> >> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs directly. >> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing vs >> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally works >> for my purposes. >> >> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >> >> Best, >> >> Angie >> >> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >> Attorney at Law >> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >> Loeb and Loeb LLP >> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >> >> East | Washington, DC 20001 >> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: amatney at loeb.com >> >> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >> >> ________________________________ >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files >> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to >> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >> destroy >> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in >> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >> ________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >> > -- > null > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 21:47:51 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 22:47:51 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: Laura Briefly, as noted in my previous emails, I convert to text files, not to pdfs. I do this as follows: 1. I get the pdfs in a folder. 2. I select them and go to omnipage on the file menu and click convert to text. 3. My text files appear. It is a very simple process. Usually this takes a matter of a minute or 2. If you had 20 substantial files, it might take 5 minutes, maybe 10 minutes for 20 very large files. I've been doing this for years and I have found it effective. Converting to text files has the added benefit that you can copy and paste from the other side's documents. In this jurisdiction, legal documents such as submissions (what you would call briefs) affidavits etc. are generally numbered by paragraph and that helps a lot. However, I am high-lighting that on occasion you won't get the page numbers and that is a problem when it arises. I'm sorry if that's not helpful. On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, the > issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably > jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan > by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do > with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the > solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, > since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry > results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported > a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So > perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. > > As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation > of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think > there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I > didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with > and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same > day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I > don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working > environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal > working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the > general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, > associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to > complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my > point. > > Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take > those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even > 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up > quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got > ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it > matters > a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some > point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into > "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" > territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point > doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact > that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not > presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws > becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This > happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they > experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this > that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems > able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. > > For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience > using Nuance to batch > convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when > you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does > Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? > Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am > describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and > those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful > and welcome development! > > Thanks, > Laura > > > > On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document >> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference >> >> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw >> >> wrote: >> >>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision >>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the >>> PDFs >>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting files >>> to >>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it >>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In the >>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. Each >>> of >>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes and >>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of >>> the >>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access PDF >>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours >>> and >>> hours. >>> >>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many files, >>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the >>> other >>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately >>> took >>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which >>> would >>> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >>> >>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs >>> directly. >>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing >>> vs >>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally >>> works >>> for my purposes. >>> >>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>> Attorney at Law >>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >>> >>> East | Washington, DC 20001 >>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: amatney at loeb.com >>> >>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>> files >>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached >>> to >>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>> destroy >>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving >>> in >>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>> ________________________________ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>> >> -- >> null >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 22:27:09 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 03:57:09 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: Relying on para numbers is also often not a viable solution. When documents are converted from pdf to word, para numbers often get lost in translation, such that they do not appear in the word version or appear irregularly. This also happens when you run them through JAWS’ native OCR functionality in PDF documents. I often had to sit with a sighted colleague and identify what para number corresponded to what piece of information and then manually insert this in the converted document, to be able to cite them correctly in my own written submissions. It would be instructive, imo, to decouple the issues with image-based pdfs and those with searchable pdfs. The former are caused by the pdf maker not saving the document the correct way, as I understand it. The latter flow from a failure on the part of Adobe and Visperro to ensure that their apps work well with each other. When one has a meeting with a partner or a client in, say, 3 hours and a 250-300 page file to negotiate, converting it into word documents is not a viable solution. I mostly do open with>word 2016 these days for most pdfs. But it sometimes does not work, inasmuch as the end product is inaccessible. When this happens, if the doc is under 100 pages or so, I email it to myself and view it as an html document. Best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 6, 2019, at 3:17 AM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: > > Laura > > Briefly, as noted in my previous emails, I convert to text files, not > to pdfs. I do this as follows: > 1. I get the pdfs in a folder. > 2. I select them and go to omnipage on the file menu and click convert to text. > 3. My text files appear. > > It is a very simple process. Usually this takes a matter of a minute > or 2. If you had 20 substantial files, it might take 5 minutes, maybe > 10 minutes for 20 very large files. > > I've been doing this for years and I have found it effective. > > Converting to text files has the added benefit that you can copy and > paste from the other side's documents. > > In this jurisdiction, legal documents such as submissions (what you > would call briefs) affidavits etc. are generally numbered by paragraph > and that helps a lot. However, I am high-lighting that on occasion you > won't get the page numbers and that is a problem when it arises. > > I'm sorry if that's not helpful. > > >> On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, the >> issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably >> jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan >> by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do >> with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the >> solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, >> since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry >> results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported >> a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So >> perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. >> >> As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation >> of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think >> there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I >> didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with >> and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same >> day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I >> don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working >> environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal >> working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the >> general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, >> associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to >> complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my >> point. >> >> Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take >> those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even >> 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up >> quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got >> ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it >> matters >> a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some >> point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into >> "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" >> territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point >> doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact >> that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not >> presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws >> becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This >> happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they >> experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this >> that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems >> able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. >> >> For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience >> using Nuance to batch >> convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when >> you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does >> Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? >> Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am >> describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and >> those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful >> and welcome development! >> >> Thanks, >> Laura >> >> >> >>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document >>> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference >>> >>> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision >>>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the >>>> PDFs >>>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting files >>>> to >>>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >>>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it >>>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In the >>>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. Each >>>> of >>>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes and >>>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of >>>> the >>>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access PDF >>>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >>>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours >>>> and >>>> hours. >>>> >>>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many files, >>>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >>>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the >>>> other >>>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately >>>> took >>>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which >>>> would >>>> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >>>> >>>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs >>>> directly. >>>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing >>>> vs >>>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally >>>> works >>>> for my purposes. >>>> >>>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>> Attorney at Law >>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >>>> >>>> East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: amatney at loeb.com >>>> >>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>> files >>>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached >>>> to >>>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>> destroy >>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving >>>> in >>>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>> >>> -- >>> null >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 22:32:40 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 18:32:40 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: Rahul has hit it on the head, as usual, especially the part about decoupling the issues with image-based versus text-based files. In a searchable pdf, you can copy and paste directly as well. Except that you have the added benefit that formatting comes with it, so you don't have to go back and reitalicize things, etc. And we need to preserve page numbers, as that is how things are cited in the U.S., which in my understanding are not preserved in text documents. On 8/5/19, Rahul Bajaj wrote: > Relying on para numbers is also often not a viable solution. When documents > are converted from pdf to word, para numbers often get lost in translation, > such that they do not appear in the word version or appear irregularly. This > also happens when you run them through JAWS’ native OCR functionality in PDF > documents. I often had to sit with a sighted colleague and identify what > para number corresponded to what piece of information and then manually > insert this in the converted document, to be able to cite them correctly in > my own written submissions. > > It would be instructive, imo, to decouple the issues with image-based pdfs > and those with searchable pdfs. The former are caused by the pdf maker not > saving the document the correct way, as I understand it. The latter flow > from a failure on the part of Adobe and Visperro to ensure that their apps > work well with each other. > > When one has a meeting with a partner or a client in, say, 3 hours and a > 250-300 page file to negotiate, converting it into word documents is not a > viable solution. I mostly do open with>word 2016 these days for most pdfs. > But it sometimes does not work, inasmuch as the end product is inaccessible. > When this happens, if the doc is under 100 pages or so, I email it to myself > and view it as an html document. > > > > > Best, > Rahul > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 6, 2019, at 3:17 AM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Laura >> >> Briefly, as noted in my previous emails, I convert to text files, not >> to pdfs. I do this as follows: >> 1. I get the pdfs in a folder. >> 2. I select them and go to omnipage on the file menu and click convert to >> text. >> 3. My text files appear. >> >> It is a very simple process. Usually this takes a matter of a minute >> or 2. If you had 20 substantial files, it might take 5 minutes, maybe >> 10 minutes for 20 very large files. >> >> I've been doing this for years and I have found it effective. >> >> Converting to text files has the added benefit that you can copy and >> paste from the other side's documents. >> >> In this jurisdiction, legal documents such as submissions (what you >> would call briefs) affidavits etc. are generally numbered by paragraph >> and that helps a lot. However, I am high-lighting that on occasion you >> won't get the page numbers and that is a problem when it arises. >> >> I'm sorry if that's not helpful. >> >> >>> On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, >>> the >>> issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably >>> jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan >>> by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do >>> with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the >>> solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, >>> since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry >>> results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported >>> a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So >>> perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. >>> >>> As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation >>> of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think >>> there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I >>> didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with >>> and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same >>> day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I >>> don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working >>> environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal >>> working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the >>> general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, >>> associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to >>> complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my >>> point. >>> >>> Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take >>> those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even >>> 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up >>> quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got >>> ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it >>> matters >>> a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some >>> point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into >>> "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" >>> territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point >>> doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact >>> that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not >>> presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws >>> becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This >>> happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they >>> experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this >>> that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems >>> able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. >>> >>> For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience >>> using Nuance to batch >>> convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when >>> you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does >>> Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? >>> Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am >>> describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and >>> those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful >>> and welcome development! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Laura >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document >>>> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference >>>> >>>> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for >>>>> precision >>>>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the >>>>> PDFs >>>>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting >>>>> files >>>>> to >>>>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >>>>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long >>>>> it >>>>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In >>>>> the >>>>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. >>>>> Each >>>>> of >>>>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes >>>>> and >>>>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of >>>>> the >>>>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access >>>>> PDF >>>>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >>>>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours >>>>> and >>>>> hours. >>>>> >>>>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many >>>>> files, >>>>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >>>>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the >>>>> other >>>>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately >>>>> took >>>>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which >>>>> would >>>>> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >>>>> >>>>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs >>>>> directly. >>>>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to >>>>> printing >>>>> vs >>>>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally >>>>> works >>>>> for my purposes. >>>>> >>>>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >>>>> >>>>> East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: >>>>> amatney at loeb.com >>>>> >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>> files >>>>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>>>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached >>>>> to >>>>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>> destroy >>>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>> saving >>>>> in >>>>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> null >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Mon Aug 5 22:46:22 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 23:46:22 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: I have found paragraph numbers do work reliably in documents that have been scanned in. As noted, there are good reasons that people send their documents as scanned pdfs, I do so myself. That is by design, it is not that I am creating the document incorrectly. G On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Rahul has hit it on the head, as usual, especially the part about > decoupling the issues with image-based versus text-based files. In a > searchable pdf, you can copy and paste directly as well. Except that > you have the added benefit that formatting comes with it, so you don't > have to go back and reitalicize things, etc. And we need to preserve > page numbers, as that is how things are cited in the U.S., which in my > understanding are not preserved in text documents. > > On 8/5/19, Rahul Bajaj wrote: >> Relying on para numbers is also often not a viable solution. When >> documents >> are converted from pdf to word, para numbers often get lost in >> translation, >> such that they do not appear in the word version or appear irregularly. >> This >> also happens when you run them through JAWS’ native OCR functionality in >> PDF >> documents. I often had to sit with a sighted colleague and identify what >> para number corresponded to what piece of information and then manually >> insert this in the converted document, to be able to cite them correctly >> in >> my own written submissions. >> >> It would be instructive, imo, to decouple the issues with image-based >> pdfs >> and those with searchable pdfs. The former are caused by the pdf maker >> not >> saving the document the correct way, as I understand it. The latter flow >> from a failure on the part of Adobe and Visperro to ensure that their >> apps >> work well with each other. >> >> When one has a meeting with a partner or a client in, say, 3 hours and a >> 250-300 page file to negotiate, converting it into word documents is not >> a >> viable solution. I mostly do open with>word 2016 these days for most >> pdfs. >> But it sometimes does not work, inasmuch as the end product is >> inaccessible. >> When this happens, if the doc is under 100 pages or so, I email it to >> myself >> and view it as an html document. >> >> >> >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 6, 2019, at 3:17 AM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> Briefly, as noted in my previous emails, I convert to text files, not >>> to pdfs. I do this as follows: >>> 1. I get the pdfs in a folder. >>> 2. I select them and go to omnipage on the file menu and click convert >>> to >>> text. >>> 3. My text files appear. >>> >>> It is a very simple process. Usually this takes a matter of a minute >>> or 2. If you had 20 substantial files, it might take 5 minutes, maybe >>> 10 minutes for 20 very large files. >>> >>> I've been doing this for years and I have found it effective. >>> >>> Converting to text files has the added benefit that you can copy and >>> paste from the other side's documents. >>> >>> In this jurisdiction, legal documents such as submissions (what you >>> would call briefs) affidavits etc. are generally numbered by paragraph >>> and that helps a lot. However, I am high-lighting that on occasion you >>> won't get the page numbers and that is a problem when it arises. >>> >>> I'm sorry if that's not helpful. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, >>>> the >>>> issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably >>>> jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan >>>> by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do >>>> with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the >>>> solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, >>>> since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry >>>> results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported >>>> a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So >>>> perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. >>>> >>>> As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation >>>> of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think >>>> there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I >>>> didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with >>>> and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same >>>> day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I >>>> don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working >>>> environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal >>>> working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the >>>> general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, >>>> associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to >>>> complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my >>>> point. >>>> >>>> Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take >>>> those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even >>>> 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up >>>> quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got >>>> ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it >>>> matters >>>> a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some >>>> point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into >>>> "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" >>>> territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point >>>> doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact >>>> that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not >>>> presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws >>>> becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This >>>> happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they >>>> experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this >>>> that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems >>>> able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. >>>> >>>> For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience >>>> using Nuance to batch >>>> convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when >>>> you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does >>>> Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? >>>> Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am >>>> describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and >>>> those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful >>>> and welcome development! >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document >>>>> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference >>>>> >>>>> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for >>>>>> precision >>>>>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to >>>>>> the >>>>>> PDFs >>>>>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting >>>>>> files >>>>>> to >>>>>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >>>>>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long >>>>>> it >>>>>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In >>>>>> the >>>>>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. >>>>>> Each >>>>>> of >>>>>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes >>>>>> and >>>>>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of >>>>>> the >>>>>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access >>>>>> PDF >>>>>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >>>>>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours >>>>>> and >>>>>> hours. >>>>>> >>>>>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many >>>>>> files, >>>>>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >>>>>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the >>>>>> other >>>>>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately >>>>>> took >>>>>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which >>>>>> would >>>>>> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs >>>>>> directly. >>>>>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to >>>>>> printing >>>>>> vs >>>>>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally >>>>>> works >>>>>> for my purposes. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Angie >>>>>> >>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >>>>>> >>>>>> East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: >>>>>> amatney at loeb.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>>> files >>>>>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>>>>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or >>>>>> attached >>>>>> to >>>>>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>> destroy >>>>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>> saving >>>>>> in >>>>>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> null >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> > From steve.jacobson at outlook.com Tue Aug 6 01:26:06 2019 From: steve.jacobson at outlook.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 01:26:06 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] JAWS Loosing its Place when Reading PDF's in Acrobat Message-ID: Laura, I am suspicious that what is happening for you is that JAWS is loosing focus when you are reading a document and that it is loosing its place in the virtual buffer containing the text within the PDF document. JAWS seems to be having a lot of trouble these days maintaining focus. It is partly a bigger issue now because of the various types of notifications provided by Windows 10. Although many of us have often heard the "Focus Lost" announcement, that can be turned off for specific applications. To determine if my guess holds any water at all, open up a PDF document. When it is open, bring up the quick settings menu with JAWSKey and the letter "V". Then, press the letter f by itself multiple times until you hear "Focus Lost Announcement". If that box is unchecked as it is in my case with Acrobat-DC running, you will not hear any announcements that focus was lost. If you check that setting, then you should actually hear that focus was lost. This will not fix the problem and it could quickly get very annoying, but it might allow you to determine if the issue of JAWS loosing its place is due to the "Focus Lost" issue. If it turns out that this is at least part of the issue, then you can go to Vispero with a specific question like "How can I avoid loosing focus in Acrobat-DC". Also, it would seem reasonable for JAWS to maintain its location on the virtual buffer through a lost focus event. There was a time when JAWS would tend to loose its place on web pages if one jumped to another application and back. There might be some variation of this still happening within PDF documents since they also make use of the virtual buffer. If this is the issue, it is also possible that something is happening inside the adobe product that is momentarily confusing JAWS just long enough to cause it to loose its place. That might well be an Adobe issue. However, I think Vispero will have to help isolate that since Adobe doing something like that won't be apparent to the person reading the PDF document in all likelihood. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 4:38 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, the issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my point. Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it matters a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience using Nuance to batch convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful and welcome development! Thanks, Laura On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: > Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document > contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference > > On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: > >> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision >> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the >> PDFs >> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting files >> to >> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it >> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In the >> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. Each >> of >> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes and >> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of the >> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access PDF >> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours and >> hours. >> >> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many files, >> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the other >> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately took >> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which would >> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >> >> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs directly. >> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing vs >> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally works >> for my purposes. >> >> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >> >> Best, >> >> Angie >> >> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >> Attorney at Law >> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >> Loeb and Loeb LLP >> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >> >> East | Washington, DC 20001 >> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: amatney at loeb.com >> >> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.loeb.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=3kagPPbj08KSJy%2Fwa%2BfkjoQD%2BrlKLaJrY8hvXrPbOkA%3D&reserved=0 >> >> ________________________________ >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files >> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to >> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >> destroy >> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in >> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >> ________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=Jn1jFXwcu1S1oupQZReEPU3aLeZHjCRXoXEzATrMIE0%3D&reserved=0 >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fgerard.sadlier%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=szZgXsIIfIR1SWYPvogcQr22k2NfbWWFyZwuzQ7sti0%3D&reserved=0 >> > -- > null > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=Jn1jFXwcu1S1oupQZReEPU3aLeZHjCRXoXEzATrMIE0%3D&reserved=0 > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=5mxiM8OOW33TET5y0864e7IWbBOy9INBtmlGSHo4oc8%3D&reserved=0 > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927645348&sdata=bVxHCVh1wMM0o6xBd6EPHaidmwlRN6Fi7i%2BvG2ozwaY%3D&reserved=0 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540outlook.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927645348&sdata=LPaVnVM1DRsoYvtmaC%2BwEyMo4OTSLuTy55WikD7LOfg%3D&reserved=0 From sanho817 at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 01:51:53 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 20:51:53 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Question About Solo Practice Message-ID: <3FE6FE49-E0BD-4DDF-AAF1-EB2EE3B439D6@gmail.com> Hello, Can someone here answer a few questions I have about solo practice, specifically for disability rights law? I'm thinking Disability education, employment, housing, and perhaps social security issues. I'm wondering: •How do you stay funded? (Private pay, government matching, etc?) •What do you wish you'd have known before going into solo practice? •Are there any specific resources for running your own business that you'd recommend? Thank you, Sanho From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 10:34:05 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:34:05 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] JAWS Loosing its Place when Reading PDF's in Acrobat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve, this is brilliant! I will try this right away when I get to work and get back to you with results. Thanks for the great idea! On 8/5/19, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw wrote: > Laura, > > I am suspicious that what is happening for you is that JAWS is loosing focus > when you are reading a document and that it is loosing its place in the > virtual buffer containing the text within the PDF document. JAWS seems to > be having a lot of trouble these days maintaining focus. It is partly a > bigger issue now because of the various types of notifications provided by > Windows 10. Although many of us have often heard the "Focus Lost" > announcement, that can be turned off for specific applications. To > determine if my guess holds any water at all, open up a PDF document. When > it is open, bring up the quick settings menu with JAWSKey and the letter > "V". Then, press the letter f by itself multiple times until you hear > "Focus Lost Announcement". If that box is unchecked as it is in my case > with Acrobat-DC running, you will not hear any announcements that focus was > lost. If you check that setting, then you should actually hear that focus > was lost. This will not fix the problem and it could quickly get very > annoying, but it might allow you to determine if the issue of JAWS loosing > its place is due to the "Focus Lost" issue. > > If it turns out that this is at least part of the issue, then you can go to > Vispero with a specific question like "How can I avoid loosing focus in > Acrobat-DC". Also, it would seem reasonable for JAWS to maintain its > location on the virtual buffer through a lost focus event. > > There was a time when JAWS would tend to loose its place on web pages if one > jumped to another application and back. There might be some variation of > this still happening within PDF documents since they also make use of the > virtual buffer. > > If this is the issue, it is also possible that something is happening inside > the adobe product that is momentarily confusing JAWS just long enough to > cause it to loose its place. That might well be an Adobe issue. However, I > think Vispero will have to help isolate that since Adobe doing something > like that won't be apparent to the person reading the PDF document in all > likelihood. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via > BlindLaw > Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 4:38 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? > > Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, the > issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably > jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan > by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do > with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the > solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, > since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry > results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported > a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So > perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. > > As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation > of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think > there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I > didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with > and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same > day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I > don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working > environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal > working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the > general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, > associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to > complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my > point. > > Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take > those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even > 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up > quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got > ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it > matters > a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some > point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into > "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" > territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point > doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact > that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not > presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws > becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This > happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they > experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this > that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems > able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. > > For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience > using Nuance to batch > convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when > you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does > Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? > Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am > describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and > those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful > and welcome development! > > Thanks, > Laura > > > > On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document >> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference >> >> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw >> >> wrote: >> >>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision >>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the >>> PDFs >>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting files >>> to >>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it >>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In the >>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. Each >>> of >>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes and >>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of >>> the >>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access PDF >>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours >>> and >>> hours. >>> >>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many files, >>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the >>> other >>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately >>> took >>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which >>> would >>> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >>> >>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs >>> directly. >>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing >>> vs >>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally >>> works >>> for my purposes. >>> >>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>> Attorney at Law >>> [Loeb & Loeb >>> LLP] >>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >>> >>> East | Washington, DC 20001 >>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: amatney at loeb.com >>> >>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.loeb.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=3kagPPbj08KSJy%2Fwa%2BfkjoQD%2BrlKLaJrY8hvXrPbOkA%3D&reserved=0 >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>> files >>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached >>> to >>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>> destroy >>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving >>> in >>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>> ________________________________ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=Jn1jFXwcu1S1oupQZReEPU3aLeZHjCRXoXEzATrMIE0%3D&reserved=0 >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> >>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fgerard.sadlier%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=szZgXsIIfIR1SWYPvogcQr22k2NfbWWFyZwuzQ7sti0%3D&reserved=0 >>> >> -- >> null >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=Jn1jFXwcu1S1oupQZReEPU3aLeZHjCRXoXEzATrMIE0%3D&reserved=0 >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=5mxiM8OOW33TET5y0864e7IWbBOy9INBtmlGSHo4oc8%3D&reserved=0 >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927645348&sdata=bVxHCVh1wMM0o6xBd6EPHaidmwlRN6Fi7i%2BvG2ozwaY%3D&reserved=0 > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540outlook.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927645348&sdata=LPaVnVM1DRsoYvtmaC%2BwEyMo4OTSLuTy55WikD7LOfg%3D&reserved=0 > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 14:52:03 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 10:52:03 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468D204@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468D204@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: I'm using Adobe Pro, Continuous Release. I'm going to try batch converting with ABBYY FineReader later today. I'm glad to hear pagination is preserved. I'll let you know my results! On 8/6/19, Angela Matney wrote: > Laura, I don’t typically confer to another PDF either. I take your point in > the other message that the time can add up. I’m just not sure that for me, > it adds up to be significant. If I have more than one large document to deal > with, I will start work on one while converting the other(s). But to be > clear, I’m not saying we shouldn’t work to get Vispero and Adobe to address > issues affecting the stability of the two products. I only meant that the > time factor of converting documents may not be as significant as it might > seem, particularly if Abbyy / Omnipage / PowerPDF can do this much faster > than Kurzweil. > > As for formats, I generally save to Word, and in many cases, pagination is > preserved. I experienced this yesterday. A colleague sent me a PDF of a > signed agreement and told me the part I needed to work with started on Page > 26. I ran it through PowerPDF, and when I got my Word version, I was able to > jump straight to page 26 and begin work on my assignment. I don’t have to > deal with line numbers in what I do, though, so (as with so many things > related to access technology) YMMV. > > Also, sorry if I’ve missed this, but which Adobe product are you using? > Acrobat? > > It seems to me there are several facets of PDF accessibility that we could > work to address. One question: Is it possible to realize the benefits people > get from saving PDFs as images by saving them as secure PDFs and allowing > screen readers to be able to interact with them? I think these security > settings exist but I really don’t know much about this topic. Of course, > stability between JAWS and Acrobat would be essential for this method to be > effective. > > Angie > > > ________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files > or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential > information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to > this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this > transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy > the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in > any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > ________________________________ > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via > BlindLaw > Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 6:33 PM > To: Rahul Bajaj > Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? > > > > Rahul has hit it on the head, as usual, especially the part about > decoupling the issues with image-based versus text-based files. In a > searchable pdf, you can copy and paste directly as well. Except that > you have the added benefit that formatting comes with it, so you don't > have to go back and reitalicize things, etc. And we need to preserve > page numbers, as that is how things are cited in the U.S., which in my > understanding are not preserved in text documents. > > On 8/5/19, Rahul Bajaj wrote: >> Relying on para numbers is also often not a viable solution. When >> documents >> are converted from pdf to word, para numbers often get lost in >> translation, >> such that they do not appear in the word version or appear irregularly. >> This >> also happens when you run them through JAWS’ native OCR functionality in >> PDF >> documents. I often had to sit with a sighted colleague and identify what >> para number corresponded to what piece of information and then manually >> insert this in the converted document, to be able to cite them correctly >> in >> my own written submissions. >> >> It would be instructive, imo, to decouple the issues with image-based >> pdfs >> and those with searchable pdfs. The former are caused by the pdf maker >> not >> saving the document the correct way, as I understand it. The latter flow >> from a failure on the part of Adobe and Visperro to ensure that their >> apps >> work well with each other. >> >> When one has a meeting with a partner or a client in, say, 3 hours and a >> 250-300 page file to negotiate, converting it into word documents is not >> a >> viable solution. I mostly do open with>word 2016 these days for most >> pdfs. >> But it sometimes does not work, inasmuch as the end product is >> inaccessible. >> When this happens, if the doc is under 100 pages or so, I email it to >> myself >> and view it as an html document. >> >> >> >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 6, 2019, at 3:17 AM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> Briefly, as noted in my previous emails, I convert to text files, not >>> to pdfs. I do this as follows: >>> 1. I get the pdfs in a folder. >>> 2. I select them and go to omnipage on the file menu and click convert >>> to >>> text. >>> 3. My text files appear. >>> >>> It is a very simple process. Usually this takes a matter of a minute >>> or 2. If you had 20 substantial files, it might take 5 minutes, maybe >>> 10 minutes for 20 very large files. >>> >>> I've been doing this for years and I have found it effective. >>> >>> Converting to text files has the added benefit that you can copy and >>> paste from the other side's documents. >>> >>> In this jurisdiction, legal documents such as submissions (what you >>> would call briefs) affidavits etc. are generally numbered by paragraph >>> and that helps a lot. However, I am high-lighting that on occasion you >>> won't get the page numbers and that is a problem when it arises. >>> >>> I'm sorry if that's not helpful. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, >>>> the >>>> issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably >>>> jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan >>>> by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do >>>> with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the >>>> solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, >>>> since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry >>>> results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported >>>> a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So >>>> perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. >>>> >>>> As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation >>>> of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think >>>> there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I >>>> didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with >>>> and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same >>>> day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I >>>> don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working >>>> environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal >>>> working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the >>>> general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, >>>> associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to >>>> complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my >>>> point. >>>> >>>> Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take >>>> those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even >>>> 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up >>>> quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got >>>> ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it >>>> matters >>>> a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some >>>> point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into >>>> "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" >>>> territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point >>>> doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact >>>> that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not >>>> presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws >>>> becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This >>>> happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they >>>> experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this >>>> that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems >>>> able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. >>>> >>>> For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience >>>> using Nuance to batch >>>> convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when >>>> you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does >>>> Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? >>>> Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am >>>> describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and >>>> those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful >>>> and welcome development! >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document >>>>> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference >>>>> >>>>> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for >>>>>> precision >>>>>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to >>>>>> the >>>>>> PDFs >>>>>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting >>>>>> files >>>>>> to >>>>>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >>>>>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long >>>>>> it >>>>>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In >>>>>> the >>>>>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. >>>>>> Each >>>>>> of >>>>>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes >>>>>> and >>>>>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of >>>>>> the >>>>>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access >>>>>> PDF >>>>>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >>>>>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours >>>>>> and >>>>>> hours. >>>>>> >>>>>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many >>>>>> files, >>>>>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >>>>>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the >>>>>> other >>>>>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately >>>>>> took >>>>>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which >>>>>> would >>>>>> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs >>>>>> directly. >>>>>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to >>>>>> printing >>>>>> vs >>>>>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally >>>>>> works >>>>>> for my purposes. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Angie >>>>>> >>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >>>>>> > >>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: >>>>>> amatney at loeb.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>>> files >>>>>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>>>>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or >>>>>> attached >>>>>> to >>>>>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>> destroy >>>>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>> saving >>>>>> in >>>>>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> null >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To >>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw > mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com > From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 14:01:24 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 15:01:24 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader Message-ID: Hi All, So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar has confirmed this finding as well. When I had posted a question about the problems attending the navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am wondering if others here have used this application and have found it to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a viable substitute, I will purchase it. Best, Rahul ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Derek Dittmar Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible To: Rahul Bajaj Rahul, I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called QRead. https://q-continuum.net/qread/ Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I think it might work. As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks -- and it is working just fine. On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up and > down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and down > arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. Finally, > even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. > > I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, have > been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions as ad > hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS or > Adobe if they are facing it? > > Best, > Rahul > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com > -- -- Rahul Bajaj Candidate for the BCL Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford From amatney at loeb.com Tue Aug 6 13:57:52 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 13:57:52 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468C731@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392468D204@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Laura, I don’t typically confer to another PDF either. I take your point in the other message that the time can add up. I’m just not sure that for me, it adds up to be significant. If I have more than one large document to deal with, I will start work on one while converting the other(s). But to be clear, I’m not saying we shouldn’t work to get Vispero and Adobe to address issues affecting the stability of the two products. I only meant that the time factor of converting documents may not be as significant as it might seem, particularly if Abbyy / Omnipage / PowerPDF can do this much faster than Kurzweil. As for formats, I generally save to Word, and in many cases, pagination is preserved. I experienced this yesterday. A colleague sent me a PDF of a signed agreement and told me the part I needed to work with started on Page 26. I ran it through PowerPDF, and when I got my Word version, I was able to jump straight to page 26 and begin work on my assignment. I don’t have to deal with line numbers in what I do, though, so (as with so many things related to access technology) YMMV. Also, sorry if I’ve missed this, but which Adobe product are you using? Acrobat? It seems to me there are several facets of PDF accessibility that we could work to address. One question: Is it possible to realize the benefits people get from saving PDFs as images by saving them as secure PDFs and allowing screen readers to be able to interact with them? I think these security settings exist but I really don’t know much about this topic. Of course, stability between JAWS and Acrobat would be essential for this method to be effective. Angie ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 6:33 PM To: Rahul Bajaj Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? Rahul has hit it on the head, as usual, especially the part about decoupling the issues with image-based versus text-based files. In a searchable pdf, you can copy and paste directly as well. Except that you have the added benefit that formatting comes with it, so you don't have to go back and reitalicize things, etc. And we need to preserve page numbers, as that is how things are cited in the U.S., which in my understanding are not preserved in text documents. On 8/5/19, Rahul Bajaj wrote: > Relying on para numbers is also often not a viable solution. When documents > are converted from pdf to word, para numbers often get lost in translation, > such that they do not appear in the word version or appear irregularly. This > also happens when you run them through JAWS’ native OCR functionality in PDF > documents. I often had to sit with a sighted colleague and identify what > para number corresponded to what piece of information and then manually > insert this in the converted document, to be able to cite them correctly in > my own written submissions. > > It would be instructive, imo, to decouple the issues with image-based pdfs > and those with searchable pdfs. The former are caused by the pdf maker not > saving the document the correct way, as I understand it. The latter flow > from a failure on the part of Adobe and Visperro to ensure that their apps > work well with each other. > > When one has a meeting with a partner or a client in, say, 3 hours and a > 250-300 page file to negotiate, converting it into word documents is not a > viable solution. I mostly do open with>word 2016 these days for most pdfs. > But it sometimes does not work, inasmuch as the end product is inaccessible. > When this happens, if the doc is under 100 pages or so, I email it to myself > and view it as an html document. > > > > > Best, > Rahul > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 6, 2019, at 3:17 AM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Laura >> >> Briefly, as noted in my previous emails, I convert to text files, not >> to pdfs. I do this as follows: >> 1. I get the pdfs in a folder. >> 2. I select them and go to omnipage on the file menu and click convert to >> text. >> 3. My text files appear. >> >> It is a very simple process. Usually this takes a matter of a minute >> or 2. If you had 20 substantial files, it might take 5 minutes, maybe >> 10 minutes for 20 very large files. >> >> I've been doing this for years and I have found it effective. >> >> Converting to text files has the added benefit that you can copy and >> paste from the other side's documents. >> >> In this jurisdiction, legal documents such as submissions (what you >> would call briefs) affidavits etc. are generally numbered by paragraph >> and that helps a lot. However, I am high-lighting that on occasion you >> won't get the page numbers and that is a problem when it arises. >> >> I'm sorry if that's not helpful. >> >> >>> On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, >>> the >>> issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably >>> jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan >>> by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do >>> with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the >>> solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, >>> since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry >>> results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported >>> a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So >>> perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. >>> >>> As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation >>> of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think >>> there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I >>> didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with >>> and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same >>> day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I >>> don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working >>> environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal >>> working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the >>> general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, >>> associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to >>> complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my >>> point. >>> >>> Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take >>> those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even >>> 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up >>> quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got >>> ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it >>> matters >>> a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some >>> point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into >>> "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" >>> territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point >>> doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact >>> that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not >>> presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws >>> becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This >>> happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they >>> experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this >>> that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems >>> able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. >>> >>> For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience >>> using Nuance to batch >>> convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when >>> you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does >>> Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? >>> Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am >>> describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and >>> those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful >>> and welcome development! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Laura >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document >>>> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference >>>> >>>> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for >>>>> precision >>>>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the >>>>> PDFs >>>>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting >>>>> files >>>>> to >>>>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >>>>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long >>>>> it >>>>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In >>>>> the >>>>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. >>>>> Each >>>>> of >>>>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes >>>>> and >>>>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of >>>>> the >>>>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access >>>>> PDF >>>>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >>>>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours >>>>> and >>>>> hours. >>>>> >>>>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many >>>>> files, >>>>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >>>>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the >>>>> other >>>>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately >>>>> took >>>>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which >>>>> would >>>>> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >>>>> >>>>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs >>>>> directly. >>>>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to >>>>> printing >>>>> vs >>>>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally >>>>> works >>>>> for my purposes. >>>>> >>>>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >>>>> > >>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: >>>>> amatney at loeb.com >>>>> >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com> >>>>> >>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ________________________________ >>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>> files >>>>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>>>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached >>>>> to >>>>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>> destroy >>>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>> saving >>>>> in >>>>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> null >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 17:54:09 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 13:54:09 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] JAWS Loosing its Place when Reading PDF's in Acrobat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm sad to report that I am still having Jaws jump around, and I'm not getting any "lost focus" errors. But this is still good info to pass along! On 8/6/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Steve, this is brilliant! I will try this right away when I get to > work and get back to you with results. Thanks for the great idea! > > On 8/5/19, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw wrote: >> Laura, >> >> I am suspicious that what is happening for you is that JAWS is loosing >> focus >> when you are reading a document and that it is loosing its place in the >> virtual buffer containing the text within the PDF document. JAWS seems >> to >> be having a lot of trouble these days maintaining focus. It is partly a >> bigger issue now because of the various types of notifications provided >> by >> Windows 10. Although many of us have often heard the "Focus Lost" >> announcement, that can be turned off for specific applications. To >> determine if my guess holds any water at all, open up a PDF document. >> When >> it is open, bring up the quick settings menu with JAWSKey and the letter >> "V". Then, press the letter f by itself multiple times until you hear >> "Focus Lost Announcement". If that box is unchecked as it is in my case >> with Acrobat-DC running, you will not hear any announcements that focus >> was >> lost. If you check that setting, then you should actually hear that >> focus >> was lost. This will not fix the problem and it could quickly get very >> annoying, but it might allow you to determine if the issue of JAWS >> loosing >> its place is due to the "Focus Lost" issue. >> >> If it turns out that this is at least part of the issue, then you can go >> to >> Vispero with a specific question like "How can I avoid loosing focus in >> Acrobat-DC". Also, it would seem reasonable for JAWS to maintain its >> location on the virtual buffer through a lost focus event. >> >> There was a time when JAWS would tend to loose its place on web pages if >> one >> jumped to another application and back. There might be some variation of >> this still happening within PDF documents since they also make use of the >> virtual buffer. >> >> If this is the issue, it is also possible that something is happening >> inside >> the adobe product that is momentarily confusing JAWS just long enough to >> cause it to loose its place. That might well be an Adobe issue. However, >> I >> think Vispero will have to help isolate that since Adobe doing something >> like that won't be apparent to the person reading the PDF document in all >> likelihood. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 4:38 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? >> >> Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, >> the >> issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably >> jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan >> by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do >> with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the >> solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, >> since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry >> results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported >> a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So >> perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. >> >> As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation >> of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think >> there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I >> didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with >> and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same >> day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I >> don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working >> environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal >> working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the >> general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, >> associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to >> complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my >> point. >> >> Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take >> those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even >> 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up >> quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got >> ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it >> matters >> a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some >> point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into >> "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" >> territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point >> doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact >> that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not >> presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws >> becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This >> happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they >> experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this >> that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems >> able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. >> >> For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience >> using Nuance to batch >> convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when >> you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does >> Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? >> Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am >> describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and >> those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful >> and welcome development! >> >> Thanks, >> Laura >> >> >> >> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document >>> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference >>> >>> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision >>>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the >>>> PDFs >>>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting >>>> files >>>> to >>>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >>>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it >>>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In >>>> the >>>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. >>>> Each >>>> of >>>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes >>>> and >>>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of >>>> the >>>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access >>>> PDF >>>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >>>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours >>>> and >>>> hours. >>>> >>>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many >>>> files, >>>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >>>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the >>>> other >>>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately >>>> took >>>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which >>>> would >>>> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >>>> >>>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs >>>> directly. >>>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing >>>> vs >>>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally >>>> works >>>> for my purposes. >>>> >>>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>> Attorney at Law >>>> [Loeb & Loeb >>>> LLP] >>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >>>> >>>> East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: >>>> amatney at loeb.com >>>> >>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.loeb.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=3kagPPbj08KSJy%2Fwa%2BfkjoQD%2BrlKLaJrY8hvXrPbOkA%3D&reserved=0 >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>> files >>>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached >>>> to >>>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>> destroy >>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving >>>> in >>>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=Jn1jFXwcu1S1oupQZReEPU3aLeZHjCRXoXEzATrMIE0%3D&reserved=0 >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> >>>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fgerard.sadlier%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=szZgXsIIfIR1SWYPvogcQr22k2NfbWWFyZwuzQ7sti0%3D&reserved=0 >>>> >>> -- >>> null >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=Jn1jFXwcu1S1oupQZReEPU3aLeZHjCRXoXEzATrMIE0%3D&reserved=0 >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=5mxiM8OOW33TET5y0864e7IWbBOy9INBtmlGSHo4oc8%3D&reserved=0 >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927645348&sdata=bVxHCVh1wMM0o6xBd6EPHaidmwlRN6Fi7i%2BvG2ozwaY%3D&reserved=0 >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540outlook.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927645348&sdata=LPaVnVM1DRsoYvtmaC%2BwEyMo4OTSLuTy55WikD7LOfg%3D&reserved=0 >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > From rodalcidonis at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 03:16:28 2019 From: rodalcidonis at gmail.com (rodalcidonis at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 23:16:28 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more rebuts PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in ABBYY and convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good with accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. Rod Alcidonis, Esq. -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Rahul Bajaj Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader Hi All, So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar has confirmed this finding as well. When I had posted a question about the problems attending the navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am wondering if others here have used this application and have found it to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a viable substitute, I will purchase it. Best, Rahul ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Derek Dittmar Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible To: Rahul Bajaj Rahul, I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called QRead. https://q-continuum.net/qread/ Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I think it might work. As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks -- and it is working just fine. On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up and > down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and down > arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. > Finally, > even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. > > I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, have > been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions as > ad > hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS or > Adobe if they are facing it? > > Best, > Rahul > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com > -- -- Rahul Bajaj Candidate for the BCL Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 04:02:36 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 09:32:36 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] JAWS Loosing its Place when Reading PDF's in Acrobat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I suspect that is because Steve’s suggestion, as I understand it, relates to a situation when JAWS loses focus due to a Windows 10 notification. Your problem, however, relates to focus being lost within the document itself, not owing to an external intruder. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 6, 2019, at 11:24 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > I'm sad to report that I am still having Jaws jump around, and I'm not > getting any "lost focus" errors. But this is still good info to pass > along! > >> On 8/6/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Steve, this is brilliant! I will try this right away when I get to >> work and get back to you with results. Thanks for the great idea! >> >>> On 8/5/19, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> I am suspicious that what is happening for you is that JAWS is loosing >>> focus >>> when you are reading a document and that it is loosing its place in the >>> virtual buffer containing the text within the PDF document. JAWS seems >>> to >>> be having a lot of trouble these days maintaining focus. It is partly a >>> bigger issue now because of the various types of notifications provided >>> by >>> Windows 10. Although many of us have often heard the "Focus Lost" >>> announcement, that can be turned off for specific applications. To >>> determine if my guess holds any water at all, open up a PDF document. >>> When >>> it is open, bring up the quick settings menu with JAWSKey and the letter >>> "V". Then, press the letter f by itself multiple times until you hear >>> "Focus Lost Announcement". If that box is unchecked as it is in my case >>> with Acrobat-DC running, you will not hear any announcements that focus >>> was >>> lost. If you check that setting, then you should actually hear that >>> focus >>> was lost. This will not fix the problem and it could quickly get very >>> annoying, but it might allow you to determine if the issue of JAWS >>> loosing >>> its place is due to the "Focus Lost" issue. >>> >>> If it turns out that this is at least part of the issue, then you can go >>> to >>> Vispero with a specific question like "How can I avoid loosing focus in >>> Acrobat-DC". Also, it would seem reasonable for JAWS to maintain its >>> location on the virtual buffer through a lost focus event. >>> >>> There was a time when JAWS would tend to loose its place on web pages if >>> one >>> jumped to another application and back. There might be some variation of >>> this still happening within PDF documents since they also make use of the >>> virtual buffer. >>> >>> If this is the issue, it is also possible that something is happening >>> inside >>> the adobe product that is momentarily confusing JAWS just long enough to >>> cause it to loose its place. That might well be an Adobe issue. However, >>> I >>> think Vispero will have to help isolate that since Adobe doing something >>> like that won't be apparent to the person reading the PDF document in all >>> likelihood. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve Jacobson >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >>> BlindLaw >>> Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 4:38 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? >>> >>> Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution? Also, >>> the >>> issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably >>> jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan >>> by paragraph or line. Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do >>> with OCR capability. And if it does, then it only highlights that the >>> solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task, >>> since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry >>> results. It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported >>> a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws. So >>> perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things. >>> >>> As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation >>> of it to my attention. However, I've reread it, and I don't think >>> there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I >>> didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with >>> and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same >>> day. The suggested overnight solution is just not viable. And I >>> don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working >>> environments. (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal >>> working environment. I'm making a general statement based on the >>> general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments, >>> associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to >>> complete a task, and these minutes add up). I hope that clarifies my >>> point. >>> >>> Angie, I do get your point, and thank you. My point is, if you take >>> those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even >>> 3, and then say you have to review twenty files. Those minutes add up >>> quite quickly. Just like the track change issue. Sure, if you've got >>> ten to review, no big deal. When you're talking about 600 changes, it >>> matters >>> a whole lot more. So I completely hear you, but just like at some >>> point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into >>> "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties" >>> territory, so too with converting pdfs. And again, my main point >>> doesn't even have to do with converting. It has to do with the fact >>> that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine. It's not >>> presenting as blank or empty. But in the course of reading, Jaws >>> becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document. This >>> happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they >>> experience the same. It seems like there must be a solution to this >>> that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems >>> able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws. >>> >>> For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience >>> using Nuance to batch >>> convert. Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when >>> you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf? Does >>> Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf? >>> Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am >>> describing. So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and >>> those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful >>> and welcome development! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Laura >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document >>>> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference >>>> >>>> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision >>>>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the >>>>> PDFs >>>>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting >>>>> files >>>>> to >>>>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect, >>>>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it >>>>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In >>>>> the >>>>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. >>>>> Each >>>>> of >>>>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes >>>>> and >>>>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of >>>>> the >>>>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access >>>>> PDF >>>>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or >>>>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours >>>>> and >>>>> hours. >>>>> >>>>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many >>>>> files, >>>>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me >>>>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the >>>>> other >>>>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately >>>>> took >>>>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which >>>>> would >>>>> have had to be done in any case because they were images. >>>>> >>>>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs >>>>> directly. >>>>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing >>>>> vs >>>>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally >>>>> works >>>>> for my purposes. >>>>> >>>>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb >>>>> LLP] >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 >>>>> >>>>> East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax: 202.403.3407 | E-mail: >>>>> amatney at loeb.com >>>>> >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.loeb.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=3kagPPbj08KSJy%2Fwa%2BfkjoQD%2BrlKLaJrY8hvXrPbOkA%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>> files >>>>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>>>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached >>>>> to >>>>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>> destroy >>>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving >>>>> in >>>>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=Jn1jFXwcu1S1oupQZReEPU3aLeZHjCRXoXEzATrMIE0%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> >>>>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fgerard.sadlier%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=szZgXsIIfIR1SWYPvogcQr22k2NfbWWFyZwuzQ7sti0%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> null >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=Jn1jFXwcu1S1oupQZReEPU3aLeZHjCRXoXEzATrMIE0%3D&reserved=0 >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927635343&sdata=5mxiM8OOW33TET5y0864e7IWbBOy9INBtmlGSHo4oc8%3D&reserved=0 >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927645348&sdata=bVxHCVh1wMM0o6xBd6EPHaidmwlRN6Fi7i%2BvG2ozwaY%3D&reserved=0 >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fsteve.jacobson%2540outlook.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35dfc2f479984ab262cf08d719ed72db%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637006379927645348&sdata=LPaVnVM1DRsoYvtmaC%2BwEyMo4OTSLuTy55WikD7LOfg%3D&reserved=0 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From sanho817 at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 08:41:11 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 03:41:11 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Track Changes and Case Briefs Message-ID: Hello, How do you use JAWS to read and create track-changes in Microsoft Word? Also, did you choose to brief your cases in law school? Why or why not? Warmth, Sanho From r.g.munro at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 12:39:31 2019 From: r.g.munro at gmail.com (Robert Munro) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 08:39:31 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows version. Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one is free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows Good luck. Onward! Robert Munro r.g.munro at gmail.com > On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw wrote: > > I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more rebuts PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in ABBYY and convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. > > QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good with accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. > > > > > > Rod Alcidonis, Esq. > -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: Rahul Bajaj > Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader > > Hi All, > > So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable > substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply > refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar > has confirmed this finding as well. > > When I had posted a question about the problems attending the > navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email > below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am > wondering if others here have used this application and have found it > to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am > wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form > and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a > viable substitute, I will purchase it. > > Best, > Rahul > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Derek Dittmar > Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible > To: Rahul Bajaj > > Rahul, > I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I > primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called > QRead. > https://q-continuum.net/qread/ > Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in > electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing > within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I > think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I > think it might work. > As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about > QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the > developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in > sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit > from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on > an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application > -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks > -- and it is working just fine. > > On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up and >> down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and down >> arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. Finally, >> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >> >> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, have >> been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions as ad >> hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS or >> Adobe if they are facing it? >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > -- > Rahul Bajaj > Candidate for the BCL > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) > University of Oxford > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 13:15:05 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 09:15:05 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: > I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows version. > Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one is > free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. > https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows > > > Good luck. > > Onward! > Robert Munro > r.g.munro at gmail.com > > > >> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more rebuts >> PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in ABBYY and >> convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >> >> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good with >> accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >> >> >> >> >> >> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >> >> Hi All, >> >> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply >> refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar >> has confirmed this finding as well. >> >> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >> wondering if others here have used this application and have found it >> to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a >> viable substitute, I will purchase it. >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Derek Dittmar >> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >> To: Rahul Bajaj >> >> Rahul, >> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called >> QRead. >> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >> think it might work. >> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit >> from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on >> an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application >> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks >> -- and it is working just fine. >> >> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up and >>> down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and down >>> arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>> Finally, >>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>> >>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, >>> have >>> been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions as >>> ad >>> hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS or >>> Adobe if they are facing it? >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Rahul Bajaj >> Candidate for the BCL >> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) >> University of Oxford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From agtolentino at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 14:57:13 2019 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 07:57:13 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CBBBD74-FEF0-4415-8541-3D1D7FD745EF@gmail.com> JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and can really mangle things like tables. Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. > On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at > some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it > definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. > >> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows version. >> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one is >> free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >> >> >> Good luck. >> >> Onward! >> Robert Munro >> r.g.munro at gmail.com >> >> >> >>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more rebuts >>> PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in ABBYY and >>> convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>> >>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good with >>> accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply >>> refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar >>> has confirmed this finding as well. >>> >>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found it >>> to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a >>> viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Derek Dittmar >>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>> >>> Rahul, >>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called >>> QRead. >>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>> think it might work. >>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit >>> from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on >>> an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application >>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks >>> -- and it is working just fine. >>> >>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up and >>>> down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and down >>>> arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>> Finally, >>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>> >>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, >>>> have >>>> been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions as >>>> ad >>>> hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS or >>>> Adobe if they are facing it? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Rahul Bajaj >>> Candidate for the BCL >>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) >>> University of Oxford >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com From BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com Thu Aug 8 00:03:02 2019 From: BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com (Brian Unitt) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 00:03:02 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead or other options As a Substitute for Adobe Reader Message-ID: <795668659d014155a5f9ac7add5da89f@holsteinlaw.com> I have been having the same issues with JFW losing its place in Acrobat Reader, and installing the August update did not help. FineReader is a no-go for reading PDFs. I tried the demo of QRead but couldn't get the install to complete. I am now running the demo of Foxit Phantom PDF, and it shows some promise. I have tried several PDFs of various sizes, and so far don't have any problem with JFW losing its place in the document. A 300 page document opened almost instantly, compared to the minutes Acrobat takes. There are still issues with stripping line numbers off pleadings, and not always showing page numbers. It is going to be a pretty steep learning curve as the program has a robust feature set, and a ribbon menu that is not all that friendly to JAWS (or maybe just to me) it's too soon to tell how useful it will be yet. I will mention another alternative if you have an iPad is using VoiceDream Reader. I use it a lot because It allows for highlighting of text in PDFs and you can export the highlighted material to a text editor for quick reference or for pasting into briefs etc. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com Acrobat Reader. It seems to be getting worse, mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 7:57 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aser Tolentino Subject: Re: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and can really mangle things like tables. Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. > On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at > some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it > definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. > >> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows version. >> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one >> is free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >> >> >> Good luck. >> >> Onward! >> Robert Munro >> r.g.munro at gmail.com >> >> >> >>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more >>> rebuts PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in >>> ABBYY and convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>> >>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good >>> with accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS >>> simply refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY >>> - Amar has confirmed this finding as well. >>> >>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found >>> it to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is >>> a viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Derek Dittmar >>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>> >>> Rahul, >>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer >>> called QRead. >>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>> think it might work. >>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of >>> benefit from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm >>> working on an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in >>> the application >>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page >>> textbooks >>> -- and it is working just fine. >>> >>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping >>>> up and down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. >>>> Control+up and down arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>> Finally, >>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>> >>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at >>>> least, have been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR >>>> and word versions as ad hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or >>>> can they report this to FS or Adobe if they are facing it? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Rahul Bajaj >>> Candidate for the BCL >>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> 40gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >> mail.com> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40 >> gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 00:49:54 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 20:49:54 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead or other options As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: <795668659d014155a5f9ac7add5da89f@holsteinlaw.com> References: <795668659d014155a5f9ac7add5da89f@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: To loosely piggyback off of Bryan‘s message, I have been wondering, is anybody using Apple products to access PDFs? Generally speaking, I find Mac to do better as far as integrating speech software with other programs. Voiceover works quite well in most applications. I have a phone laptop and iPad which are apple products. Sincerely, Maura Kutnyak 716-563-9882 > On Aug 7, 2019, at 8:03 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have been having the same issues with JFW losing its place in Acrobat Reader, and installing the August update did not help. FineReader is a no-go for reading PDFs. I tried the demo of QRead but couldn't get the install to complete. > > I am now running the demo of Foxit Phantom PDF, and it shows some promise. I have tried several PDFs of various sizes, and so far don't have any problem with JFW losing its place in the document. A 300 page document opened almost instantly, compared to the minutes Acrobat takes. > > There are still issues with stripping line numbers off pleadings, and not always showing page numbers. It is going to be a pretty steep learning curve as the program has a robust feature set, and a ribbon menu that is not all that friendly to JAWS (or maybe just to me) it's too soon to tell how useful it will be yet. > > I will mention another alternative if you have an iPad is using VoiceDream Reader. I use it a lot because It allows for highlighting of text in PDFs and you can export the highlighted material to a text editor for quick reference or for pasting into briefs etc. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist, Appellate Law > The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization > > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com Acrobat Reader. It seems to be getting worse, > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 7:57 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aser Tolentino > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader > > JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and can really mangle things like tables. > > Respectfully, > Aser Tolentino, Esq. > >> On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at >> some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it >> definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. >> >>> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >>> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows version. >>> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one >>> is free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >>> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >>> >>> >>> Good luck. >>> >>> Onward! >>> Robert Munro >>> r.g.munro at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more >>>> rebuts PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in >>>> ABBYY and convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>>> >>>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good >>>> with accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS >>>> simply refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY >>>> - Amar has confirmed this finding as well. >>>> >>>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found >>>> it to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is >>>> a viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Derek Dittmar >>>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>>> >>>> Rahul, >>>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer >>>> called QRead. >>>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>>> think it might work. >>>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of >>>> benefit from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm >>>> working on an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in >>>> the application >>>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page >>>> textbooks >>>> -- and it is working just fine. >>>> >>>>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping >>>>> up and down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. >>>>> Control+up and down arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>>> Finally, >>>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>>> >>>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at >>>>> least, have been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR >>>>> and word versions as ad hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or >>>>> can they report this to FS or Adobe if they are facing it? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Rahul Bajaj >>>> Candidate for the BCL >>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> 40gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>> mail.com> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gm >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com From davant1958 at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 01:00:22 2019 From: davant1958 at gmail.com (davant1958 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 20:00:22 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead or other options As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: <795668659d014155a5f9ac7add5da89f@holsteinlaw.com> References: <795668659d014155a5f9ac7add5da89f@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: <00f101d54d84$a827cc60$f8776520$@gmail.com> Hello everyone, I don't know if this is useful. But MS Word 2016 will open PDF files and read them. If page numbers and alike are essential, this might not be a workable solution. But if you just need to read a document that is PDF, Word 2016 and I would imagine 2019 might do the trick. Denise R. Avant, Esq. President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois 773-991-8050 Live the life you want. For more information about NFBI, Go to www.nfbofillinois.org -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Brian Unitt via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 7:03 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Brian Unitt Subject: Re: [blindLaw] QRead or other options As a Substitute for Adobe Reader I have been having the same issues with JFW losing its place in Acrobat Reader, and installing the August update did not help. FineReader is a no-go for reading PDFs. I tried the demo of QRead but couldn't get the install to complete. I am now running the demo of Foxit Phantom PDF, and it shows some promise. I have tried several PDFs of various sizes, and so far don't have any problem with JFW losing its place in the document. A 300 page document opened almost instantly, compared to the minutes Acrobat takes. There are still issues with stripping line numbers off pleadings, and not always showing page numbers. It is going to be a pretty steep learning curve as the program has a robust feature set, and a ribbon menu that is not all that friendly to JAWS (or maybe just to me) it's too soon to tell how useful it will be yet. I will mention another alternative if you have an iPad is using VoiceDream Reader. I use it a lot because It allows for highlighting of text in PDFs and you can export the highlighted material to a text editor for quick reference or for pasting into briefs etc. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com Acrobat Reader. It seems to be getting worse, mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 7:57 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aser Tolentino Subject: Re: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and can really mangle things like tables. Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. > On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at > some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it > definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. > >> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows version. >> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one >> is free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >> >> >> Good luck. >> >> Onward! >> Robert Munro >> r.g.munro at gmail.com >> >> >> >>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more >>> rebuts PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in >>> ABBYY and convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>> >>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good >>> with accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS >>> simply refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY >>> - Amar has confirmed this finding as well. >>> >>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found >>> it to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is >>> a viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Derek Dittmar >>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>> >>> Rahul, >>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer >>> called QRead. >>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>> think it might work. >>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of >>> benefit from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm >>> working on an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in >>> the application >>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page >>> textbooks >>> -- and it is working just fine. >>> >>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping >>>> up and down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. >>>> Control+up and down arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>> Finally, >>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>> >>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at >>>> least, have been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR >>>> and word versions as ad hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or >>>> can they report this to FS or Adobe if they are facing it? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Rahul Bajaj >>> Candidate for the BCL >>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> 40gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >> mail.com> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40 >> gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gmail.com From davant1958 at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 01:03:32 2019 From: davant1958 at gmail.com (davant1958 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 20:03:32 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead or other options As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: References: <795668659d014155a5f9ac7add5da89f@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: <00fe01d54d85$1a037140$4e0a53c0$@gmail.com> For that matter, if you have an iPhone or iPad, you can use Voice Dream Reader to read just about any file type including PDFs. Denise R. Avant, Esq. President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois 773-991-8050 Live the life you want. For more information about NFBI, Go to www.nfbofillinois.org -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 7:50 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Maura Kutnyak Subject: Re: [blindLaw] QRead or other options As a Substitute for Adobe Reader To loosely piggyback off of Bryan‘s message, I have been wondering, is anybody using Apple products to access PDFs? Generally speaking, I find Mac to do better as far as integrating speech software with other programs. Voiceover works quite well in most applications. I have a phone laptop and iPad which are apple products. Sincerely, Maura Kutnyak 716-563-9882 > On Aug 7, 2019, at 8:03 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have been having the same issues with JFW losing its place in Acrobat Reader, and installing the August update did not help. FineReader is a no-go for reading PDFs. I tried the demo of QRead but couldn't get the install to complete. > > I am now running the demo of Foxit Phantom PDF, and it shows some promise. I have tried several PDFs of various sizes, and so far don't have any problem with JFW losing its place in the document. A 300 page document opened almost instantly, compared to the minutes Acrobat takes. > > There are still issues with stripping line numbers off pleadings, and not always showing page numbers. It is going to be a pretty steep learning curve as the program has a robust feature set, and a ribbon menu that is not all that friendly to JAWS (or maybe just to me) it's too soon to tell how useful it will be yet. > > I will mention another alternative if you have an iPad is using VoiceDream Reader. I use it a lot because It allows for highlighting of text in PDFs and you can export the highlighted material to a text editor for quick reference or for pasting into briefs etc. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist, Appellate Law > The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization > > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com Acrobat Reader. It seems to be getting worse, > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aser > Tolentino via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 7:57 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aser Tolentino > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader > > JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and can really mangle things like tables. > > Respectfully, > Aser Tolentino, Esq. > >> On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version >> at some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; >> it definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. >> >>> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >>> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows version. >>> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one >>> is free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >>> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >>> >>> >>> Good luck. >>> >>> Onward! >>> Robert Munro >>> r.g.munro at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more >>>> rebuts PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in >>>> ABBYY and convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>>> >>>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good >>>> with accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS >>>> simply refuses to interact with the document if you open it in >>>> ABBYY >>>> - Amar has confirmed this finding as well. >>>> >>>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the >>>> email below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. >>>> I am wondering if others here have used this application and have >>>> found it to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, >>>> I am wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise >>>> form and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If >>>> it is a viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Derek Dittmar >>>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become >>>> infeasible >>>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>>> >>>> Rahul, >>>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer >>>> called QRead. >>>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings >>>> in electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for >>>> editing within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively >>>> inexpensive (I think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs >>>> accessibility, then I think it might work. >>>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with >>>> the developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her >>>> in sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of >>>> benefit from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm >>>> working on an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in >>>> the application >>>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page >>>> textbooks >>>> -- and it is working just fine. >>>> >>>>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping >>>>> up and down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. >>>>> Control+up and down arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>>> Finally, >>>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>>> >>>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at >>>>> least, have been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR >>>>> and word versions as ad hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or >>>>> can they report this to FS or Adobe if they are facing it? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittma >>>>> r >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Rahul Bajaj >>>> Candidate for the BCL >>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis% >>>> 4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> % >>>> 40gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40g >>>> m >>>> ail.com >>>> >>> g >>>> mail.com> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%4 >>> 0 >>> gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40g >> m >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40hol > steinlaw.com _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gmail.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 05:17:24 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 08:17:24 +0300 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead or other options As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: <795668659d014155a5f9ac7add5da89f@holsteinlaw.com> References: <795668659d014155a5f9ac7add5da89f@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: Brian, does Foxit enable you to navigate all searchable pdfs in para-wise form? Rahul Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2019, at 3:03 AM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have been having the same issues with JFW losing its place in Acrobat Reader, and installing the August update did not help. FineReader is a no-go for reading PDFs. I tried the demo of QRead but couldn't get the install to complete. > > I am now running the demo of Foxit Phantom PDF, and it shows some promise. I have tried several PDFs of various sizes, and so far don't have any problem with JFW losing its place in the document. A 300 page document opened almost instantly, compared to the minutes Acrobat takes. > > There are still issues with stripping line numbers off pleadings, and not always showing page numbers. It is going to be a pretty steep learning curve as the program has a robust feature set, and a ribbon menu that is not all that friendly to JAWS (or maybe just to me) it's too soon to tell how useful it will be yet. > > I will mention another alternative if you have an iPad is using VoiceDream Reader. I use it a lot because It allows for highlighting of text in PDFs and you can export the highlighted material to a text editor for quick reference or for pasting into briefs etc. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist, Appellate Law > The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization > > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com Acrobat Reader. It seems to be getting worse, > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 7:57 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aser Tolentino > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader > > JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and can really mangle things like tables. > > Respectfully, > Aser Tolentino, Esq. > >> On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at >> some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it >> definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. >> >>> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >>> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows version. >>> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one >>> is free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >>> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >>> >>> >>> Good luck. >>> >>> Onward! >>> Robert Munro >>> r.g.munro at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more >>>> rebuts PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in >>>> ABBYY and convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>>> >>>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good >>>> with accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS >>>> simply refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY >>>> - Amar has confirmed this finding as well. >>>> >>>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found >>>> it to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is >>>> a viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Derek Dittmar >>>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>>> >>>> Rahul, >>>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer >>>> called QRead. >>>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>>> think it might work. >>>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of >>>> benefit from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm >>>> working on an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in >>>> the application >>>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page >>>> textbooks >>>> -- and it is working just fine. >>>> >>>>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping >>>>> up and down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. >>>>> Control+up and down arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>>> Finally, >>>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>>> >>>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at >>>>> least, have been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR >>>>> and word versions as ad hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or >>>>> can they report this to FS or Adobe if they are facing it? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Rahul Bajaj >>>> Candidate for the BCL >>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> 40gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>> mail.com> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gm >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com Thu Aug 8 18:36:51 2019 From: BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com (Brian Unitt) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 18:36:51 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead or other options As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: References: <795668659d014155a5f9ac7add5da89f@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: <2c9122e9ee6748118aa1d60a73e00c05@holsteinlaw.com> You can use JAWS key-control-I to read current paragraph and "p" to read next paragraph. A block of text is read though I can't swear it is always an actual document paragraph as I so far can not figure out how to get any formatting information in Foxit. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 10:17 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Brian Unitt Subject: Re: [blindLaw] QRead or other options As a Substitute for Adobe Reader Brian, does Foxit enable you to navigate all searchable pdfs in para-wise form? Rahul Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2019, at 3:03 AM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have been having the same issues with JFW losing its place in Acrobat Reader, and installing the August update did not help. FineReader is a no-go for reading PDFs. I tried the demo of QRead but couldn't get the install to complete. > > I am now running the demo of Foxit Phantom PDF, and it shows some promise. I have tried several PDFs of various sizes, and so far don't have any problem with JFW losing its place in the document. A 300 page document opened almost instantly, compared to the minutes Acrobat takes. > > There are still issues with stripping line numbers off pleadings, and not always showing page numbers. It is going to be a pretty steep learning curve as the program has a robust feature set, and a ribbon menu that is not all that friendly to JAWS (or maybe just to me) it's too soon to tell how useful it will be yet. > > I will mention another alternative if you have an iPad is using VoiceDream Reader. I use it a lot because It allows for highlighting of text in PDFs and you can export the highlighted material to a text editor for quick reference or for pasting into briefs etc. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist, Appellate Law > The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization > > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com Acrobat Reader. It seems to be getting worse, > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aser > Tolentino via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 7:57 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aser Tolentino > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader > > JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and can really mangle things like tables. > > Respectfully, > Aser Tolentino, Esq. > >> On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version >> at some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; >> it definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. >> >>> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >>> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows version. >>> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one >>> is free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >>> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >>> >>> >>> Good luck. >>> >>> Onward! >>> Robert Munro >>> r.g.munro at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more >>>> rebuts PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in >>>> ABBYY and convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>>> >>>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good >>>> with accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS >>>> simply refuses to interact with the document if you open it in >>>> ABBYY >>>> - Amar has confirmed this finding as well. >>>> >>>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the >>>> email below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. >>>> I am wondering if others here have used this application and have >>>> found it to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, >>>> I am wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise >>>> form and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If >>>> it is a viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Derek Dittmar >>>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become >>>> infeasible >>>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>>> >>>> Rahul, >>>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer >>>> called QRead. >>>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings >>>> in electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for >>>> editing within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively >>>> inexpensive (I think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs >>>> accessibility, then I think it might work. >>>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with >>>> the developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her >>>> in sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of >>>> benefit from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm >>>> working on an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in >>>> the application >>>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page >>>> textbooks >>>> -- and it is working just fine. >>>> >>>>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping >>>>> up and down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. >>>>> Control+up and down arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>>> Finally, >>>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>>> >>>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at >>>>> least, have been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR >>>>> and word versions as ad hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or >>>>> can they report this to FS or Adobe if they are facing it? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittma >>>>> r >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Rahul Bajaj >>>> Candidate for the BCL >>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis% >>>> 4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> % >>>> 40gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40g >>>> m >>>> ail.com >>>> >>> g >>>> mail.com> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%4 >>> 0 >>> gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40g >> m >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40hol > steinlaw.com _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From ainekc at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 20:39:58 2019 From: ainekc at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?=C3=81ine_Kelly-Costello?=) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 21:39:58 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Other PDF OCR options and question re NVDA Message-ID: <5C4B85C4-B360-482E-80C7-B43D863CC5F6@gmail.com> Hi all, A couple things: 1. Two other OCR options not yet discussed (I don't think) RoboBraille - this is online and free, I used it through uni. Not perfect but not bad either - if has a very good go at retaining a lot of formatting. (Sometimes you do need to set the text language to whatever it was supposed to be after the conversion). Sometimes it retained page numbers, sometimes not. You can email convert at robobraille.org with a single file at a time and the format you want (e.g. docx) in the subject line. I was reading the user guide and it looks like you can ask it for a (tagged) PDF by putting PDF in the subject, though I've not tried this. Or you can upload multiple documents of the same type here: https://www.robobraille.org/convert-file I was also having a play around just now with the KNFB Reader app (on iphone) which I hadn't touched in ages but it looks pretty intuitive to me. No idea what its preservation of page numbers is like. You can export in txt, html or rtf. My guess is that this will not do anything that getting adobe to convert the file and emailing it to yourself on gmail to generate an HTML document wouldn't already do. 2. On another note, if anyone's put any effort into reading tagged but long PDFs with NVDA, would you kindly share your experiences? I've not needed to read difficult docs like this for a while but will very likely do soon (for an investigative journalism course, not law, but similar issues will probably come up). Thank you, Áine From morgaynemulkern at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 21:01:40 2019 From: morgaynemulkern at gmail.com (Morgayne Mulkern) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 17:01:40 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Advice Accommodation Issues and Looking for Work Message-ID: <001001d54e2c$79f3dc50$6ddb94f0$@gmail.com> Hi everyone! I'd really appreciate only positive advice and support. Below you can see the struggle. 1. Does anyone know anywhere hiring? I can send along my resume. No Bar License yet, but I have my J.D. graduated in May 2018 from Suffolk law school. I am proficient in Spanish and mediation certified, too. Reach me at morgaynemulkern at gmail.com or 774-826-7428. Thanks! 2. I'd rather not get into the specifics of this, but I have to leave my current job - the first job out of law school because of accommodation issues and the practicalities of management and limited resources and staff which make it virtually impossible to get my work done responsibly, not to mention the alienation and pushback I get when I reach out with requests. One of these is the famous half handwritten PDFs. Prior work environments and internships and court clinicals I did in law school were able to read the dates and pertinent information from these documents, but where I'm at now is not the "team environment" it was said to be and cannot "absorb" these issues. They said a reader will take 3 months plus. They are currently making my co-worker be my reader and its awful and counterproductive and not sustainable given case backup.and makes it so that I can only be as successful on my cases as he is available to help me with them (always behind). I am getting no reassurance that outside help can be provided in a timely manner and the everyday is exhausting/extremely uncomfortable because of the way I am being treated for needing so much. I feel like I spend more time explainaing my disability and justifying everything I need than I am able to be working on my cases. 3. What should I say was my reason for leaving? I never would have left had I not had the accommodation issues and related office tention. 4. Advice on restoring confidence after this kind of experience? I have felt so alienated and am trying to get back on my feet. Best, Morgayne Mulkern From kavino at McCarter.com Thu Aug 8 22:56:41 2019 From: kavino at McCarter.com (Avino, Kristy) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 22:56:41 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Advice Accommodation Issues and Looking for Work In-Reply-To: <001001d54e2c$79f3dc50$6ddb94f0$@gmail.com> References: <001001d54e2c$79f3dc50$6ddb94f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <71321507-463A-45F6-BEFC-B7AC9494E5C0@McCarter.com> Morgayne, I’m really dismayed to read all of this. You should not be experiencing retaliation for the accommodations you’ve requested. Don’t quit or give notice until you talk to one of us and to a good employment lawyer as well. I practice employment law, typically on behalf of employers (helping to create good workplace accommodations, among other things!) but I can point you in the right direction to an employee’s employment lawyer. Please give me a call at 617-947-7466. Kristy Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2019, at 5:02 PM, Morgayne Mulkern via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi everyone! > > > > I'd really appreciate only positive advice and support. Below you can see > the struggle. > > 1. Does anyone know anywhere hiring? I can send along my resume. No Bar > License yet, but I have my J.D. graduated in May 2018 from Suffolk law > school. I am proficient in Spanish and mediation certified, too. Reach me at > morgaynemulkern at gmail.com or > 774-826-7428. Thanks! > 2. I'd rather not get into the specifics of this, but I have to leave > my current job - the first job out of law school because of accommodation > issues and the practicalities of management and limited resources and staff > which make it virtually impossible to get my work done responsibly, not to > mention the alienation and pushback I get when I reach out with requests. > One of these is the famous half handwritten PDFs. Prior work environments > and internships and court clinicals I did in law school were able to read > the dates and pertinent information from these documents, but where I'm at > now is not the "team environment" it was said to be and cannot "absorb" > these issues. They said a reader will take 3 months plus. They are currently > making my co-worker be my reader and its awful and counterproductive and not > sustainable given case backup.and makes it so that I can only be as > successful on my cases as he is available to help me with them (always > behind). I am getting no reassurance that outside help can be provided in a > timely manner and the everyday is exhausting/extremely uncomfortable because > of the way I am being treated for needing so much. I feel like I spend more > time explainaing my disability and justifying everything I need than I am > able to be working on my cases. > 3. What should I say was my reason for leaving? I never would have left > had I not had the accommodation issues and related office tention. > 4. Advice on restoring confidence after this kind of experience? I have > felt so alienated and am trying to get back on my feet. > > > > Best, > > Morgayne Mulkern > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kavino%40mccarter.com This email message from the law firm of McCarter & English, LLP is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. From morgaynemulkern at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 00:22:20 2019 From: morgaynemulkern at gmail.com (Morgan Mulkernm) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 20:22:20 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Advice Accommodation Issues and Looking for Work In-Reply-To: <71321507-463A-45F6-BEFC-B7AC9494E5C0@McCarter.com> References: <001001d54e2c$79f3dc50$6ddb94f0$@gmail.com> <71321507-463A-45F6-BEFC-B7AC9494E5C0@McCarter.com> Message-ID: Hi Kristy, thank you so much for the support and resources. I am going to take your advice and try and hold off on giving notice until I make sure I've done everything I can. I got your message I'm so glad you called. i've been getting terrible migraines going to rest, but I'll give you a call soon. Thank you Best, Morgayne Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2019, at 6:56 PM, Avino, Kristy wrote: > > Morgayne, > > I’m really dismayed to read all of this. You should not be experiencing retaliation for the accommodations you’ve requested. > > Don’t quit or give notice until you talk to one of us and to a good employment lawyer as well. I practice employment law, typically on behalf of employers (helping to create good workplace accommodations, among other things!) but I can point you in the right direction to an employee’s employment lawyer. > > Please give me a call at 617-947-7466. > > Kristy > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 8, 2019, at 5:02 PM, Morgayne Mulkern via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Hi everyone! >> >> >> >> I'd really appreciate only positive advice and support. Below you can see >> the struggle. >> >> 1. Does anyone know anywhere hiring? I can send along my resume. No Bar >> License yet, but I have my J.D. graduated in May 2018 from Suffolk law >> school. I am proficient in Spanish and mediation certified, too. Reach me at >> morgaynemulkern at gmail.com or >> 774-826-7428. Thanks! >> 2. I'd rather not get into the specifics of this, but I have to leave >> my current job - the first job out of law school because of accommodation >> issues and the practicalities of management and limited resources and staff >> which make it virtually impossible to get my work done responsibly, not to >> mention the alienation and pushback I get when I reach out with requests. >> One of these is the famous half handwritten PDFs. Prior work environments >> and internships and court clinicals I did in law school were able to read >> the dates and pertinent information from these documents, but where I'm at >> now is not the "team environment" it was said to be and cannot "absorb" >> these issues. They said a reader will take 3 months plus. They are currently >> making my co-worker be my reader and its awful and counterproductive and not >> sustainable given case backup.and makes it so that I can only be as >> successful on my cases as he is available to help me with them (always >> behind). I am getting no reassurance that outside help can be provided in a >> timely manner and the everyday is exhausting/extremely uncomfortable because >> of the way I am being treated for needing so much. I feel like I spend more >> time explainaing my disability and justifying everything I need than I am >> able to be working on my cases. >> 3. What should I say was my reason for leaving? I never would have left >> had I not had the accommodation issues and related office tention. >> 4. Advice on restoring confidence after this kind of experience? I have >> felt so alienated and am trying to get back on my feet. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Morgayne Mulkern >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kavino%40mccarter.com > This email message from the law firm of McCarter & English, LLP is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. From sbadillo100 at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 12:12:01 2019 From: sbadillo100 at gmail.com (Sarah Badillo) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:12:01 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] bluebooking Message-ID: Hello, I am currently in law school but have not yet found a way to properly sight my sources in briefs and other documents. I have found punctuation when using sitations to be difficult. Does anyone have a way they have found works with sighting things in articles and documents? Also, do you use a cheat sheet? or is there an accessable form of the bluebook? Thanks. From paezja at mail.broward.edu Fri Aug 9 12:34:22 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 12:34:22 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] bluebooking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A1F2D56-32F4-4A8B-848F-D38355F4050B@mail.broward.edu> The online form of the bluebook, on the web, is completely accessible. I recommend you get it as soon as you.can. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Sarah Badillo via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > Hello, I am currently in law school but have not yet found a way to > properly sight my sources in briefs and other documents. I have found > punctuation when using sitations to be difficult. Does anyone have a > way they have found works with sighting things in articles and > documents? Also, do you use a cheat sheet? or is there an accessable > form of the bluebook? Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Ce34d739ef3484c1153be08d71cc305da%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009496255623344&sdata=vAppoSKsTQmiNuIRr6Gpk5qoU6bAvR4MZGDdArjF9uc%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Ce34d739ef3484c1153be08d71cc305da%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009496255623344&sdata=S1jndgrqepaL0N8DnXPP7cgwnYeMOHKO2QG1Thrk4xQ%3D&reserved=0= From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Aug 9 13:41:06 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 07:41:06 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: New Career Opportunity in the Trial Court - August 9, 2019 In-Reply-To: <1133064832387.1116406273370.1470612392.0.360938JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com> References: <1133064832387.1116406273370.1470612392.0.360938JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com> Message-ID: <01a201d54eb8$18a652c0$49f2f840$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: Trial Court Communications Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 7:38 AM To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com Subject: New Career Opportunity in the Trial Court - August 9, 2019 NEW CAREER OPPORTUNITIES OUR MISSION The Trial Court is committed to providing equal access to justice for all who use the Commonwealth’s courts; to the efficient and effective administration of justice and the fair and impartial resolution of disputes; to the protection of constitutional and statutory rights and liberties; to prompt and courteous service to the public by committed and dedicated professional employees utilizing best practices in a manner that inspires public trust and confidence. 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The Massachusetts Judicial Branch is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. ‌ ‌ Massachusetts Court System | Website Trial Court Communications | John Adams Courthouse, One Pemberton Square, Boston, MA 02108 Unsubscribe slabarre at labarrelaw.com Update Profile | About Constant Contact Sent by hr.department at jud.state.ma.us in collaboration with Try email marketing for free today! From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Aug 9 13:42:02 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 07:42:02 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01a701d54eb8$3a08ec70$ae1ac550$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 6:02 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Good morning, What's new? The online application for the Attorney General's Honors Program (HP) and the Summer Law Intern Program (SLIP) opened July 31, 2019. The deadline for law students and eligible graduates to apply is Sunday, September 8, 2019. The Attorney General's Honors Program has been recognized as the nation's premier entry-level federal attorney recruitment program. HP information, including participating components, eligibility guidelines, and application instructions can be found at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/entry-level-attorneys. Information about SLIP and a link to the application is at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/summer-law-intern-program. Please spread the word about these exciting legal hiring programs and opportunities to join the U.S. Department of Justice! Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. 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Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 14:28:12 2019 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody Davis) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 10:28:12 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] bluebooking In-Reply-To: <6A1F2D56-32F4-4A8B-848F-D38355F4050B@mail.broward.edu> References: <6A1F2D56-32F4-4A8B-848F-D38355F4050B@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: <711A858B-FB46-448E-8AEA-28FA7E59EA6C@gmail.com> You can find the online version here: https://www.legalbluebook.com It’s what I used all through law school, and it is far more convenient than the published version because it is easily searchable. As for punctuation, I found that I just had to go through my citations character by character to ensure everything is formatted correctly. If using a screen reader, there should be a function to navigate by character as well as a function to announce text attributes (i.e. italicize, font size, bold, etc.) You will find that formatting citations this way actually can give you an advantage over sighted colleagues in certain circumstances. For example, a normal comma can be indistinguishable visually from an italicized comma in some fonts. Only with a screen reader announcing text attributes would one be able to tell the difference. The only difficulty I had, but never found a great work-around for, was keeping up with page numbers in Westlaw or Lexis documents for purposes of pin cites. Hope this helps some. > On Aug 9, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > The online form of the bluebook, on the web, is completely accessible. I recommend you get it as soon as you.can. > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Sarah Badillo via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> Hello, I am currently in law school but have not yet found a way to >> properly sight my sources in briefs and other documents. I have found >> punctuation when using sitations to be difficult. Does anyone have a >> way they have found works with sighting things in articles and >> documents? Also, do you use a cheat sheet? or is there an accessable >> form of the bluebook? Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Ce34d739ef3484c1153be08d71cc305da%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009496255623344&sdata=vAppoSKsTQmiNuIRr6Gpk5qoU6bAvR4MZGDdArjF9uc%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Ce34d739ef3484c1153be08d71cc305da%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009496255623344&sdata=S1jndgrqepaL0N8DnXPP7cgwnYeMOHKO2QG1Thrk4xQ%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com From derekjdittmar at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 14:32:19 2019 From: derekjdittmar at gmail.com (Derek Dittmar) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 10:32:19 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] bluebooking In-Reply-To: <711A858B-FB46-448E-8AEA-28FA7E59EA6C@gmail.com> References: <6A1F2D56-32F4-4A8B-848F-D38355F4050B@mail.broward.edu> <711A858B-FB46-448E-8AEA-28FA7E59EA6C@gmail.com> Message-ID: I absolutely agree with Cody (as usual). I used the online bluebook for Law Review and for my LL.M., and it worked great. If you have any other questions about legal writing and law school, feel free to contact off list. Have a lovely Friday! Derek Dittmar On 8/9/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: > You can find the online version here: https://www.legalbluebook.com > > > It’s what I used all through law school, and it is far more convenient than > the published version because it is easily searchable. > > As for punctuation, I found that I just had to go through my citations > character by character to ensure everything is formatted correctly. If using > a screen reader, there should be a function to navigate by character as well > as a function to announce text attributes (i.e. italicize, font size, bold, > etc.) > > You will find that formatting citations this way actually can give you an > advantage over sighted colleagues in certain circumstances. For example, a > normal comma can be indistinguishable visually from an italicized comma in > some fonts. Only with a screen reader announcing text attributes would one > be able to tell the difference. > > The only difficulty I had, but never found a great work-around for, was > keeping up with page numbers in Westlaw or Lexis documents for purposes of > pin cites. > > Hope this helps some. > >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> The online form of the bluebook, on the web, is completely accessible. I >> recommend you get it as soon as you.can. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 9, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Sarah Badillo via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT >>> click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and >>> you recognize the sender. >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Hello, I am currently in law school but have not yet found a way to >>> properly sight my sources in briefs and other documents. I have found >>> punctuation when using sitations to be difficult. Does anyone have a >>> way they have found works with sighting things in articles and >>> documents? Also, do you use a cheat sheet? or is there an accessable >>> form of the bluebook? Thanks. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Ce34d739ef3484c1153be08d71cc305da%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009496255623344&sdata=vAppoSKsTQmiNuIRr6Gpk5qoU6bAvR4MZGDdArjF9uc%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Ce34d739ef3484c1153be08d71cc305da%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009496255623344&sdata=S1jndgrqepaL0N8DnXPP7cgwnYeMOHKO2QG1Thrk4xQ%3D&reserved=0= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com > From jtfetter at yahoo.com Fri Aug 9 14:36:40 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 10:36:40 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] bluebooking In-Reply-To: <711A858B-FB46-448E-8AEA-28FA7E59EA6C@gmail.com> References: <6A1F2D56-32F4-4A8B-848F-D38355F4050B@mail.broward.edu> <711A858B-FB46-448E-8AEA-28FA7E59EA6C@gmail.com> Message-ID: At least with Jaws, you?? can also enable different voices for italics, bold, etc. Use alt+ jaws key (either insert or caps lock) + s to bring up the sound schemes feature and select proofreading attributes and font info. This will make Jaws almost as effective as visual reading at allowing you to determine what text is in italics and bold. Unfortunately, it does not have a voice for small caps, which is a thing in law review citations but not, as far as I can tell, in the real world. Also, Jaws has a tendency to read adjacent text in the italics or bold voice?? to the text that you actually italicized, if you are reading straight through the document. On 8/9/2019 10:28 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: > You can find the online version here: https://www.legalbluebook.com > > It???s what I used all through law school, and it is far more convenient than the published version because it is easily searchable. > > As for punctuation, I found that I just had to go through my citations character by character to ensure everything is formatted correctly. If using a screen reader, there should be a function to navigate by character as well as a function to announce text attributes (i.e. italicize, font size, bold, etc.) > > You will find that formatting citations this way actually can give you an advantage over sighted colleagues in certain circumstances. For example, a normal comma can be indistinguishable visually from an italicized comma in some fonts. Only with a screen reader announcing text attributes would one be able to tell the difference. > > The only difficulty I had, but never found a great work-around for, was keeping up with page numbers in Westlaw or Lexis documents for purposes of pin cites. > > Hope this helps some. > >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> The online form of the bluebook, on the web, is completely accessible. I recommend you get it as soon as you.can. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 9, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Sarah Badillo via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Hello, I am currently in law school but have not yet found a way to >>> properly sight my sources in briefs and other documents. I have found >>> punctuation when using sitations to be difficult. Does anyone have a >>> way they have found works with sighting things in articles and >>> documents? Also, do you use a cheat sheet? or is there an accessable >>> form of the bluebook? Thanks. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Ce34d739ef3484c1153be08d71cc305da%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009496255623344&sdata=vAppoSKsTQmiNuIRr6Gpk5qoU6bAvR4MZGDdArjF9uc%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Ce34d739ef3484c1153be08d71cc305da%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009496255623344&sdata=S1jndgrqepaL0N8DnXPP7cgwnYeMOHKO2QG1Thrk4xQ%3D&reserved=0= >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From derekjdittmar at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 14:46:22 2019 From: derekjdittmar at gmail.com (Derek Dittmar) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 10:46:22 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: <9CBBBD74-FEF0-4415-8541-3D1D7FD745EF@gmail.com> References: <9CBBBD74-FEF0-4415-8541-3D1D7FD745EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: I still use QRead daily. I'll second that it has issues with pulling out text from graphs and charts. Also, I have a hard time using control+down arrow to go by paragraph. However, the page navigation, robust bookmarking, speed, and ability to have multiple pdfs open at the same time (with a quick ability to navigate between) has definitely helped me out. On 8/7/19, Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw wrote: > JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for > reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and > can really mangle things like tables. > > Respectfully, > Aser Tolentino, Esq. > >> On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at >> some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it >> definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. >> >>> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >>> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows >>> version. >>> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one is >>> free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >>> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >>> >>> >>> Good luck. >>> >>> Onward! >>> Robert Munro >>> r.g.munro at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more rebuts >>>> PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in ABBYY and >>>> convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>>> >>>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good with >>>> accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply >>>> refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar >>>> has confirmed this finding as well. >>>> >>>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found it >>>> to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a >>>> viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Derek Dittmar >>>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>>> >>>> Rahul, >>>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called >>>> QRead. >>>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>>> think it might work. >>>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit >>>> from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on >>>> an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application >>>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks >>>> -- and it is working just fine. >>>> >>>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up >>>>> and >>>>> down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and >>>>> down >>>>> arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>>> Finally, >>>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>>> >>>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, >>>>> have >>>>> been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions >>>>> as >>>>> ad >>>>> hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS >>>>> or >>>>> Adobe if they are facing it? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Rahul Bajaj >>>> Candidate for the BCL >>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) >>>> University of Oxford >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com > From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 14:57:35 2019 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody Davis) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 10:57:35 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: References: <9CBBBD74-FEF0-4415-8541-3D1D7FD745EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <59F52F95-2595-491A-BA83-91A05479C4D9@gmail.com> I typically utilize OpenBook to OCR and read PDF’s. Does anyone have any thoughts on OpenBook compared to ABBYY, QRead, or other software? I’m just wondering if I could be using something better. Cody > On Aug 9, 2019, at 10:46 AM, Derek Dittmar via BlindLaw wrote: > > I still use QRead daily. I'll second that it has issues with pulling > out text from graphs and charts. Also, I have a hard time using > control+down arrow to go by paragraph. However, the page navigation, > robust bookmarking, speed, and ability to have multiple pdfs open at > the same time (with a quick ability to navigate between) has > definitely helped me out. > > On 8/7/19, Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw wrote: >> JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for >> reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and >> can really mangle things like tables. >> >> Respectfully, >> Aser Tolentino, Esq. >> >>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at >>> some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it >>> definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. >>> >>>> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows >>>> version. >>>> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one is >>>> free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >>>> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >>>> >>>> >>>> Good luck. >>>> >>>> Onward! >>>> Robert Munro >>>> r.g.munro at gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more rebuts >>>>> PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in ABBYY and >>>>> convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>>>> >>>>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good with >>>>> accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>>>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply >>>>> refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar >>>>> has confirmed this finding as well. >>>>> >>>>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>>>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>>>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>>>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found it >>>>> to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>>>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>>>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a >>>>> viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: Derek Dittmar >>>>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>>>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>>>> >>>>> Rahul, >>>>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>>>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called >>>>> QRead. >>>>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>>>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>>>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>>>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>>>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>>>> think it might work. >>>>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>>>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>>>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>>>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit >>>>> from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on >>>>> an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application >>>>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks >>>>> -- and it is working just fine. >>>>> >>>>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up >>>>>> and >>>>>> down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and >>>>>> down >>>>>> arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>>>> Finally, >>>>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, >>>>>> have >>>>>> been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions >>>>>> as >>>>>> ad >>>>>> hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS >>>>>> or >>>>>> Adobe if they are facing it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> Rahul Bajaj >>>>> Candidate for the BCL >>>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) >>>>> University of Oxford >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com From agtolentino at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 15:13:31 2019 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:13:31 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: <59F52F95-2595-491A-BA83-91A05479C4D9@gmail.com> References: <9CBBBD74-FEF0-4415-8541-3D1D7FD745EF@gmail.com> <59F52F95-2595-491A-BA83-91A05479C4D9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5D6B3AA2-1282-47CD-9F14-2EA9E4AF0292@gmail.com> I use a combination of QRead, Adobe, Kurzweil 1000 and occasionally try out Microsoft Edge of all things. I also turn to VoiceDream Reader on iOS to skim large PDFs. On the Mac side, Preview has proven remarkably robust as of late. > On Aug 9, 2019, at 7:57 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: > > I typically utilize OpenBook to OCR and read PDF’s. Does anyone have any thoughts on OpenBook compared to ABBYY, QRead, or other software? I’m just wondering if I could be using something better. > > Cody > >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 10:46 AM, Derek Dittmar via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I still use QRead daily. I'll second that it has issues with pulling >> out text from graphs and charts. Also, I have a hard time using >> control+down arrow to go by paragraph. However, the page navigation, >> robust bookmarking, speed, and ability to have multiple pdfs open at >> the same time (with a quick ability to navigate between) has >> definitely helped me out. >> >> On 8/7/19, Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw wrote: >>> JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for >>> reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and >>> can really mangle things like tables. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Aser Tolentino, Esq. >>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at >>>> some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it >>>> definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. >>>> >>>>> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows >>>>> version. >>>>> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one is >>>>> free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >>>>> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Good luck. >>>>> >>>>> Onward! >>>>> Robert Munro >>>>> r.g.munro at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more rebuts >>>>>> PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in ABBYY and >>>>>> convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>>>>> >>>>>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good with >>>>>> accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>>>>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply >>>>>> refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar >>>>>> has confirmed this finding as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>>>>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>>>>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>>>>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found it >>>>>> to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>>>>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>>>>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a >>>>>> viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> From: Derek Dittmar >>>>>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>>>>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>> >>>>>> Rahul, >>>>>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>>>>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called >>>>>> QRead. >>>>>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>>>>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>>>>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>>>>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>>>>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>>>>> think it might work. >>>>>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>>>>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>>>>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>>>>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit >>>>>> from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on >>>>>> an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application >>>>>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks >>>>>> -- and it is working just fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and >>>>>>> down >>>>>>> arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>>>>> Finally, >>>>>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> ad >>>>>>> hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> Adobe if they are facing it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Rahul Bajaj >>>>>> Candidate for the BCL >>>>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) >>>>>> University of Oxford >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Fri Aug 9 15:25:28 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 15:25:28 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] WestLaw with VoiceOver Message-ID: Hi everyone. Anyone on here using WestLaw with VoiceOver? If so would you mind giving me an primer some time this weekend or next? I’m going to be taking a research class plus I’m doing an internship where it’s heavily used and I want to be ready to hit the ground running, by at least getting the user experience/accessibility learning curve out of the way somewhat. Thanks, Jorge From paezja at mail.broward.edu Fri Aug 9 15:28:17 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 15:28:17 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Alternatives to Preview on the Mac Message-ID: <358CB604-6099-434C-B55D-E912EE20F7A1@mail.broward.edu> Hi everyone. Anyone know a good PDF reader on the Mac? Preview is good for short documents but bigger documents like textbooks, etc. crash it. I have VoiceDreamReader on my phone which works great but need something for my computer too. Thanks, Jorge From awildheir at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 15:31:07 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 11:31:07 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: <5D6B3AA2-1282-47CD-9F14-2EA9E4AF0292@gmail.com> References: <9CBBBD74-FEF0-4415-8541-3D1D7FD745EF@gmail.com> <59F52F95-2595-491A-BA83-91A05479C4D9@gmail.com> <5D6B3AA2-1282-47CD-9F14-2EA9E4AF0292@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50D6C850-8F84-4A96-94D8-5789B5CC2008@gmail.com> Wow! Preview is productive these days? I used it back in 2015 my In first semester of law school. It was horrible. I had to take so many steps to do my work it I was horrible. I had to take a leave of absence and the rest was down hill from there. How has it improved? Can you now copy text and paste it into another document and it actually paste text instead of an image of the page? Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2019, at 11:13 AM, Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw wrote: > > I use a combination of QRead, Adobe, Kurzweil 1000 and occasionally try out Microsoft Edge of all things. I also turn to VoiceDream Reader on iOS to skim large PDFs. On the Mac side, Preview has proven remarkably robust as of late. > >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 7:57 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I typically utilize OpenBook to OCR and read PDF’s. Does anyone have any thoughts on OpenBook compared to ABBYY, QRead, or other software? I’m just wondering if I could be using something better. >> >> Cody >> >>> On Aug 9, 2019, at 10:46 AM, Derek Dittmar via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I still use QRead daily. I'll second that it has issues with pulling >>> out text from graphs and charts. Also, I have a hard time using >>> control+down arrow to go by paragraph. However, the page navigation, >>> robust bookmarking, speed, and ability to have multiple pdfs open at >>> the same time (with a quick ability to navigate between) has >>> definitely helped me out. >>> >>>> On 8/7/19, Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for >>>> reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and >>>> can really mangle things like tables. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Aser Tolentino, Esq. >>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at >>>>> some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it >>>>> definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows >>>>>> version. >>>>>> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one is >>>>>> free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >>>>>> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>> >>>>>> Onward! >>>>>> Robert Munro >>>>>> r.g.munro at gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more rebuts >>>>>>> PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in ABBYY and >>>>>>> convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good with >>>>>>> accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>>>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>>>>>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply >>>>>>> refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar >>>>>>> has confirmed this finding as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>>>>>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>>>>>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>>>>>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found it >>>>>>> to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>>>>>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>>>>>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a >>>>>>> viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>> From: Derek Dittmar >>>>>>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>>>>>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rahul, >>>>>>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>>>>>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called >>>>>>> QRead. >>>>>>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>>>>>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>>>>>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>>>>>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>>>>>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>>>>>> think it might work. >>>>>>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>>>>>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>>>>>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>>>>>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit >>>>>>> from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on >>>>>>> an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application >>>>>>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks >>>>>>> -- and it is working just fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and >>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>> arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>>>>>> Finally, >>>>>>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> ad >>>>>>>> hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> Adobe if they are facing it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>> Candidate for the BCL >>>>>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) >>>>>>> University of Oxford >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 15:36:16 2019 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody Davis) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 11:36:16 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader In-Reply-To: <5D6B3AA2-1282-47CD-9F14-2EA9E4AF0292@gmail.com> References: <9CBBBD74-FEF0-4415-8541-3D1D7FD745EF@gmail.com> <59F52F95-2595-491A-BA83-91A05479C4D9@gmail.com> <5D6B3AA2-1282-47CD-9F14-2EA9E4AF0292@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02076B1A-04D6-4E51-BC8F-52641EAC3D66@gmail.com> Preview has gotten a lot better for small documents. After the revamp a couple years ago, however, Preview cannot handle large documents. > On Aug 9, 2019, at 11:13 AM, Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw wrote: > > I use a combination of QRead, Adobe, Kurzweil 1000 and occasionally try out Microsoft Edge of all things. I also turn to VoiceDream Reader on iOS to skim large PDFs. On the Mac side, Preview has proven remarkably robust as of late. > >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 7:57 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I typically utilize OpenBook to OCR and read PDF’s. Does anyone have any thoughts on OpenBook compared to ABBYY, QRead, or other software? I’m just wondering if I could be using something better. >> >> Cody >> >>> On Aug 9, 2019, at 10:46 AM, Derek Dittmar via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I still use QRead daily. I'll second that it has issues with pulling >>> out text from graphs and charts. Also, I have a hard time using >>> control+down arrow to go by paragraph. However, the page navigation, >>> robust bookmarking, speed, and ability to have multiple pdfs open at >>> the same time (with a quick ability to navigate between) has >>> definitely helped me out. >>> >>> On 8/7/19, Aser Tolentino via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> JAWS recently added support for Foxit Reader. I think QRead is great for >>>> reviewing larger PDFs, but its text extraction can be rather eccentric, and >>>> can really mangle things like tables. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Aser Tolentino, Esq. >>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2019, at 06:17, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have used the demo version of QRead and may get the full version at >>>>> some point. I have been reasonably impressed with its performance; it >>>>> definitely opens documents faster than Adobe. >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/7/19, Robert Munro via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> I use PDF Pen on my Mac; unfortunately, they don’t make a windows >>>>>> version. >>>>>> Here are some suggestions they have for Windows users. The first one is >>>>>> free, so it’s worth seeing how it works with JAWS. >>>>>> https://alternativeto.net/software/pdfpen/?platform=windows >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>> >>>>>> Onward! >>>>>> Robert Munro >>>>>> r.g.munro at gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6 Aug, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I use QRead and it is a good app but not a replacement for a more rebuts >>>>>>> PDF application such as ABBYY. I process all of my OCR in ABBYY and >>>>>>> convert the material into a Word doc for consumption. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> QRead will not convert image-scanned PDF documents, but it is good with >>>>>>> accessible PDf-formatted manuals and alike. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rod Alcidonis, Esq. >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:01 AM >>>>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] QRead As a Substitute for Adobe Reader >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So it turns out that ABBYY Fine Reader does not work as a viable >>>>>>> substitute for Adobe Reader to read PDF documents as such. JAWS simply >>>>>>> refuses to interact with the document if you open it in ABBYY - Amar >>>>>>> has confirmed this finding as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I had posted a question about the problems attending the >>>>>>> navigation of PDF documents with JAWS last year, Derek, in the email >>>>>>> below, alluded to an app called QRead which costs around $30. I am >>>>>>> wondering if others here have used this application and have found it >>>>>>> to be a viable substitute for Adobe Reader. Specifically, I am >>>>>>> wondering if it enables you to smoothly read PDFs in para-wise form >>>>>>> and if JAWS does not lose focus while reading the document. If it is a >>>>>>> viable substitute, I will purchase it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>> From: Derek Dittmar >>>>>>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:58:05 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Reading PDFs with JAWS has become infeasible >>>>>>> To: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rahul, >>>>>>> I hope this e-mail finds you well. As a third year law student, I >>>>>>> primarily use a small application from an indi blind developer called >>>>>>> QRead. >>>>>>> https://q-continuum.net/qread/ >>>>>>> Most of my use of PDFs involves working through assigned readings in >>>>>>> electronic textbooks. I know that QRead does not allow for editing >>>>>>> within pdfs. However, if all you need is a relatively inexpensive (I >>>>>>> think it was $30) pdf reader with good JAWs accessibility, then I >>>>>>> think it might work. >>>>>>> As a note, I am still using JAWS 16 (ugh). Also, I learned about >>>>>>> QRead from a personal friend who was (and maybe is) working with the >>>>>>> developer for marketing. However, I haven't consulted with her in >>>>>>> sending you this e-mail, and by no means do I get any sort of benefit >>>>>>> from recommending the application. I will tell you that I'm working on >>>>>>> an LL.M. right now, and have about twelve PDFs open in the application >>>>>>> -- several law review articles and a few multi-hundred page textbooks >>>>>>> -- and it is working just fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/10/18, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have JAWSb 2018 and acrobat dc. Jaws keeps automatically jumping up >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> down in PDFs when you select 'read entire document'. Control+up and >>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>> arrows also doesn't work for para-wise navigation; jaws says blank. >>>>>>>> Finally, >>>>>>>> even ctrl+shift+n works sporadically. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have spoken with VFO. They say that the first 2 problems, at least, >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> been widely reported in recent weeks. I am using OCR and word versions >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> ad >>>>>>>> hoc measures. Do others have any ideas, or can they report this to FS >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> Adobe if they are facing it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Rahul Bajaj >>>>>>> Candidate for the BCL >>>>>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) >>>>>>> University of Oxford >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/derekjdittmar%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com From morgaynemulkern at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 16:10:46 2019 From: morgaynemulkern at gmail.com (Morgan Mulkernm) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 12:10:46 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Advice Accommodation Issues and Looking for Work update not leaving In-Reply-To: References: <001001d54e2c$79f3dc50$6ddb94f0$@gmail.com> <71321507-463A-45F6-BEFC-B7AC9494E5C0@McCarter.com> Message-ID: <9A1EC1A6-37E5-4439-90FC-E6B159F97647@gmail.com> after speaking with more people seems best move is to wait 2 more months before leaving. See if they provide ever. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2019, at 8:22 PM, Morgan Mulkernm wrote: > > Hi Kristy, > > thank you so much for the support and resources. I am going to take your advice and try and hold off on giving notice until I make sure I've done everything I can. I got your message I'm so glad you called. i've been getting terrible migraines going to rest, but I'll give you a call soon. Thank you > > Best, > Morgayne > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 8, 2019, at 6:56 PM, Avino, Kristy wrote: >> >> Morgayne, >> >> I’m really dismayed to read all of this. You should not be experiencing retaliation for the accommodations you’ve requested. >> >> Don’t quit or give notice until you talk to one of us and to a good employment lawyer as well. I practice employment law, typically on behalf of employers (helping to create good workplace accommodations, among other things!) but I can point you in the right direction to an employee’s employment lawyer. >> >> Please give me a call at 617-947-7466. >> >> Kristy >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 8, 2019, at 5:02 PM, Morgayne Mulkern via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone! >>> >>> >>> >>> I'd really appreciate only positive advice and support. Below you can see >>> the struggle. >>> >>> 1. Does anyone know anywhere hiring? I can send along my resume. No Bar >>> License yet, but I have my J.D. graduated in May 2018 from Suffolk law >>> school. I am proficient in Spanish and mediation certified, too. Reach me at >>> morgaynemulkern at gmail.com or >>> 774-826-7428. Thanks! >>> 2. I'd rather not get into the specifics of this, but I have to leave >>> my current job - the first job out of law school because of accommodation >>> issues and the practicalities of management and limited resources and staff >>> which make it virtually impossible to get my work done responsibly, not to >>> mention the alienation and pushback I get when I reach out with requests. >>> One of these is the famous half handwritten PDFs. Prior work environments >>> and internships and court clinicals I did in law school were able to read >>> the dates and pertinent information from these documents, but where I'm at >>> now is not the "team environment" it was said to be and cannot "absorb" >>> these issues. They said a reader will take 3 months plus. They are currently >>> making my co-worker be my reader and its awful and counterproductive and not >>> sustainable given case backup.and makes it so that I can only be as >>> successful on my cases as he is available to help me with them (always >>> behind). I am getting no reassurance that outside help can be provided in a >>> timely manner and the everyday is exhausting/extremely uncomfortable because >>> of the way I am being treated for needing so much. I feel like I spend more >>> time explainaing my disability and justifying everything I need than I am >>> able to be working on my cases. >>> 3. What should I say was my reason for leaving? I never would have left >>> had I not had the accommodation issues and related office tention. >>> 4. Advice on restoring confidence after this kind of experience? I have >>> felt so alienated and am trying to get back on my feet. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Morgayne Mulkern >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kavino%40mccarter.com >> This email message from the law firm of McCarter & English, LLP is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. From awildheir at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 16:19:30 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 12:19:30 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Advice Accommodation Issues and Looking for Work In-Reply-To: <001001d54e2c$79f3dc50$6ddb94f0$@gmail.com> References: <001001d54e2c$79f3dc50$6ddb94f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Unfortunately, this was my experience with several situations in law school and the reason I was dismissed for poor academic performance. I would have filed an OCR complaint if I had not been deceived. The deans told me the ADA had updated the rules governing reapplying to law school after dismissal. They said the ADA allows previous schools to provide a letter so the student could reapply before the customary 2 year wait period. They said they would provide a letter so I could reapply that fall. When I got the letter, it was past the 6 month requirement and I could not file an OCR complaint. When I visited a law school my previous school knew I wanted to attend, it became evident someone from my school had contacted them. Now I cannot attend law school because my previous school will prevent me from getting admitted. I should have reported them the first semester. I know I could have made it if I had the support I needed. I couldn't even get truly accessible documents from them. So my purpose for sharing this is to urge you to take what these guys say to heart. Don't blow it off and find another job. Take the legal action they recommend. It will be in your best interest for the future. I'm now having to fight with Voc Rehab to get support for a second bs in computer science which is my second career choice. My first bachelor was in equine science. I worked in that field for 10 years. I can't do the manual labor any more and that's why I was going to law school. If I had taken action the first semester, I wouldn't be fighting with Voc Rehab for a second bachelor now. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Morgayne Mulkern via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi everyone! > > > > I'd really appreciate only positive advice and support. Below you can see > the struggle. > > 1. Does anyone know anywhere hiring? I can send along my resume. No Bar > License yet, but I have my J.D. graduated in May 2018 from Suffolk law > school. I am proficient in Spanish and mediation certified, too. Reach me at > morgaynemulkern at gmail.com or > 774-826-7428. Thanks! > 2. I'd rather not get into the specifics of this, but I have to leave > my current job - the first job out of law school because of accommodation > issues and the practicalities of management and limited resources and staff > which make it virtually impossible to get my work done responsibly, not to > mention the alienation and pushback I get when I reach out with requests. > One of these is the famous half handwritten PDFs. Prior work environments > and internships and court clinicals I did in law school were able to read > the dates and pertinent information from these documents, but where I'm at > now is not the "team environment" it was said to be and cannot "absorb" > these issues. They said a reader will take 3 months plus. They are currently > making my co-worker be my reader and its awful and counterproductive and not > sustainable given case backup.and makes it so that I can only be as > successful on my cases as he is available to help me with them (always > behind). I am getting no reassurance that outside help can be provided in a > timely manner and the everyday is exhausting/extremely uncomfortable because > of the way I am being treated for needing so much. I feel like I spend more > time explainaing my disability and justifying everything I need than I am > able to be working on my cases. > 3. What should I say was my reason for leaving? I never would have left > had I not had the accommodation issues and related office tention. > 4. Advice on restoring confidence after this kind of experience? I have > felt so alienated and am trying to get back on my feet. > > > > Best, > > Morgayne Mulkern > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 17:37:19 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 13:37:19 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a student. (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues I had as a student? I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with this request. Aimee Sent from my iPhone From awildheir at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 18:05:04 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 14:05:04 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws? In-Reply-To: References: <03435DDF-B154-4A59-BD6F-D6253EDB335E@amarjain.com> <099DE0D2-7ED2-460E-8FAF-2277A800640D@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Lora, Yes I agree! Why have we not all collectively stood up for truly accessible PDFs? This was a huge problem for me when I attempted law school. My school did not think they should assist in making the pdfs of my books accessible. I spent more time on trying to access materials and fighting for accommodations than I did on my school work. When you think about it, why do we not have equal access? Next year, the ADA will be in place for 30 years. Let's join together and get it done. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I'm sorry for any confusion. To be clear, I just want the answer to a > very simple question: > > Does anyone use ABBYY FineReader to **read** not convert, pdfs. Also, > as I mentioned in my subject line that I am a Jaws user, not an NVDA > user, I am only interested in that screenreader. > > The volume of pdfs per day that I need to access and the need for > precision when referencing said files does not lend itself well to > relying on converting to a different file type as a work-around. > Besides which, I don't really have the time to sit around idly while > mass file conversions take place. Again, why have we not collectively > stood up and demanded the ability to reliably and consistently access > PDF files? Who doesn't need to do this as a lawyer in 2019? I was > not a heavy PDF user until about a month ago because I was fortunate > enough to have access to K1000, but it seems that many of us have been > and have been experiencing these issues for quite some time. At some > point, someone needs to take the lead and try to initiate change. > > Thanks, > Laura > >> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >> Kelby >> >> Do you mind my asking why you convert files to a different type of >> pdf, rather than say to a text file, a word document etc. >> >> Is this so that you can refer accurately to page numbers or is there >> some other reason? >> >> Kind regards >> >> Ger >> >>> On 8/5/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> Okay, here goes. i use NVDA, so some of the accessibility features >>> might be slightly different. So, for example, I do not read PDFs in >>> FineReader itself, but use Adobe after I have converted them. There >>> are pretty easy ways to bulk convert within FineReader; from the main >>> screen, just click on "convert to [whatever file format desired]" and >>> then add files as necessary. >>> >>> You will want to go into FineReader's settings and make sure that >>> tagging'bookmarking PDF files is checked, and that the OCR is set to >>> "text and pictures only"--that way you will not have the original >>> image embedded in the file, which will make it much larger. >>> >>> There is one important thing to be aware of, however. With some files, >>> I have found that because of the tagging that FineReader does, when >>> you open the converted file in Adobe, it will start you off on the >>> last page instead of the first. There are two ways around this: either >>> open the PDF file with FineReader's OCR editor, and when the OCR >>> process has finished, save the file as a text-based PDF; >>> alternatively, use "infer reading order from document" in Adobe's >>> settings rather than tagged reading order. This does make converting >>> PDFs in bulk trickier, unfortunately. I am trying to work with Abbyy >>> on a fix, but so far they have not been helpful. >>> >>> Let me know if there are other questions. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Hello all >>>> >>>> I tend to use Nuance Omnipage to convert PDFS to text files and then >>>> to read those files. This fast, reliable and effective. >>>> >>>> The one draw back is that sometimes the page numbers can be lost, so >>>> that one is not always sure what page of a document one is reading. >>>> Any solution for that would be welcome. However, I am not sure that >>>> when say Fine Reader converts a pdf to word the word document has >>>> precisely the same page numbers as the pdf? >>>> >>>> Comments on this welcome. I am following this discussion with interest >>>> and would be really grateful if people would post solutions to the >>>> list. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Ger >>>> >>>>> On 8/4/19, Amar Jain via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> RB-just when I read your observation, I was reminded of a feature which >>>>> even >>>>> allowed reading within Fine Reader itself. It was an important >>>>> observation >>>>> from your end which lead to me remembering a good old missed feature. >>>>> >>>>> Let me try that out and let the group know tomorrow. Just ping me once >>>>> please around noon time just so that it doesn’t slip from my mind. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> AJ >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On 04-Aug-2019, at 7:29 PM, Rahul Bajaj >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> I use ABBYY as an instrument to convert PDFS into word documents all >>>>>> the >>>>>> time. however, I suspect that you are envisaging its use to read PDF >>>>>> documents as such, as a substitute for adobe reader. I have never done >>>>>> this yet. best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Amar Jain via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do it on day to day basis. It is the best solution. You can call me >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> +91-9892622230 or email me (there may be little delay in responses). >>>>>>> Or >>>>>>> Whats App is also fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Amar Jain >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 03-Aug-2019, at 4:49 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If anyone regularly uses ABYY FineReader instead of Adobe for >>>>>>>> handling >>>>>>>> PDFs, I would really appreciate being contacted offline. Here's the >>>>>>>> skinny. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My job is extremely PDF heavy,often with horribly tagged and un-ocr'd >>>>>>>> documents, which we have no way of controlling. For years, I rely >>>>>>>> typically on K1000 as a work-around Adobe's finickiness with Jaws. >>>>>>>> Except that, for reasons we can't understand, K1000 will not launch >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> my system. We've been working diligently on this for three weeks >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> no success. In the meantime, I've had to rely on Adobe pro, which >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> reasons well rehashed, we all know is not a sustainable option. >>>>>>>> (Note, >>>>>>>> in my copious free time, ha! I have been trying to negotiate with >>>>>>>> Vispero and Adobe on this). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The potentially good news is that I do also have access to ABBYY >>>>>>>> FineReader. I've heard people mention this in the past as a >>>>>>>> substitute for K1000 or OpenBook, but not as a PDF reader. >>>>>>>> Yesterday, >>>>>>>> I tried loading a PDF in it, got some notice like "loading scans," >>>>>>>> nothing happened after about a minute, and I panicked, basically >>>>>>>> thinking "I don't have time to figure this out now, I need to get >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> done," and resorted back to Adobe. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So if anyone has success with this program and can charitably donate >>>>>>>> their time to me to give me a crash course instead of having me >>>>>>>> self-teach and figure out if there's some settings I need to tweak or >>>>>>>> whatever, I would be ever so grateful. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> thanks much, >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 19:47:02 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 15:47:02 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F1B80E2-E49E-47E9-9E7F-6F6C01097FC8@gmail.com> What stance has the NFB taken on this? I've read a couple of the briefs and so far they are against the ADA's coverage of online content and mobile apps. This seems, to me, a major concern that could result in our access of sites and apps to catapult backwards. Am I wrong in thinking public access is also anything that is offered to the public? If a business offered a service to the public, would that service not have to be offered and useable to individuals of the public with disabilities? The categories listed in the ada don't necessarily mean physical locations. They are categories of things the public would utilize. Public accommodation is something open/available to the public. Web sites aren't listed because they didn't exist but they are accessible by the public. If they weren't, they would be private sites and you would have to choose who you want on your site. For instance if I wanted to create a site for only my family to utilize. Please share your thoughts. This concerns me greatly. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:08 AM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: > > https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/dominos-pizza-llc-v-robles/ > > QP: Whether websites & apps have to be blind-accessible. CA9 below said yes. > > A bunch of amici have filed even on the cert petition. > > Seems likely to have widespread impacts, including on issues y'all > litigate. Would suggest you get in on amici pro respondent if you can. > > Deadline August 14 — and August 4 to get parties' consent. Sup. Ct. R. > 34(2)(a) > > Sincerely, > Sai > > Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and autocorrect > errors. > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Fri Aug 9 20:32:16 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 20:32:16 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 In-Reply-To: <9F1B80E2-E49E-47E9-9E7F-6F6C01097FC8@gmail.com> References: <9F1B80E2-E49E-47E9-9E7F-6F6C01097FC8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Anyone know if an app or site falls under the same classification as say a physical store? Or is this still a definition that is being worked out? > On Aug 9, 2019, at 3:47 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > What stance has the NFB taken on this? I've read a couple of the briefs and so far they are against the ADA's coverage of online content and mobile apps. This seems, to me, a major concern that could result in our access of sites and apps to catapult backwards. Am I wrong in thinking public access is also anything that is offered to the public? If a business offered a service to the public, would that service not have to be offered and useable to individuals of the public with disabilities? The categories listed in the ada don't necessarily mean physical locations. They are categories of things the public would utilize. Public accommodation is something open/available to the public. Web sites aren't listed because they didn't exist but they are accessible by the public. If they weren't, they would be private sites and you would have to choose who you want on your site. For instance if I wanted to create a site for only my family to utilize. Please share your thoughts. This concerns me greatly. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:08 AM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotusblog.com%2Fcase-files%2Fcases%2Fdominos-pizza-llc-v-robles%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=EkxBzZTNrQVhMz3xam9rGIo39JTTNPIZkUuR8%2FrXrdo%3D&reserved=0= >> >> QP: Whether websites & apps have to be blind-accessible. CA9 below said yes. >> >> A bunch of amici have filed even on the cert petition. >> >> Seems likely to have widespread impacts, including on issues y'all >> litigate. Would suggest you get in on amici pro respondent if you can. >> >> Deadline August 14 — and August 4 to get parties' consent. Sup. Ct. R. >> 34(2)(a) >> >> Sincerely, >> Sai >> >> Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and autocorrect >> errors. >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=DLh1J6dhxVlud1u8NfGp%2BHW6N9dFqLpFOI%2BEOwDfOaw%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fawildheir%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=Uid%2BHXZhLrYWa3ROD0BWndm%2FhUezOaCjbrTeFT%2BPoTc%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=DLh1J6dhxVlud1u8NfGp%2BHW6N9dFqLpFOI%2BEOwDfOaw%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=i4deYfHLaPggBCbgKkmo4WYMd3sYes0O7IqSIR3PrFE%3D&reserved=0= From awildheir at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 19:35:57 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:35:57 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 In-Reply-To: References: <9F1B80E2-E49E-47E9-9E7F-6F6C01097FC8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <19AE6ECE-44A3-4AE8-854D-689F1E1BF5DC@gmail.com> A place of public access is anywhere the public has access. The public accesses a web site. The public accesses a mobile app. Dominos does not restrict access to its site or app to a specific group of people. Therefore, it is accessed by the public. Folks, if this goes wrong, we will no longer have the ability to hold anyone accountable if we cannot utilize any thing that is not a building. Microsoft, Apple, or any other technology company will see no reason to put the effort or funds into making things accessible. No more Netflix or amazon described videos. Basically, companies will realize they can say oh well to bad so sad because there will be no recourse for us. When the ADA was enacted, this is how it was applied. Are there any folks here old enough to have been an adult when the ADA was enacted? I am. It never meant only physical brick and mortar. The spirit of the law was whatever the public can utilize, it should also be available to the members of the public with disabilities. Next time you take an Uber, think about that app you use to get the Uber. If you use a guide dog, you could find yourselves with no recourse for denial of access because Uber drivers will say it's my car and I don't want dogs in it. Since it is my car and not a public building, I don't have to let you in. We have access to Uber now because they are offering a service to the public. The service is not a brick and mortar building. That's why the ADA is anything available to the public and the catagories are suggestions to things that are public and not private. I foresee this ruling leading to more and more denial for us as blind individuals. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Anyone know if an app or site falls under the same classification as say a physical store? > Or is this still a definition that is being worked out? > > > >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 3:47 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> What stance has the NFB taken on this? I've read a couple of the briefs and so far they are against the ADA's coverage of online content and mobile apps. This seems, to me, a major concern that could result in our access of sites and apps to catapult backwards. Am I wrong in thinking public access is also anything that is offered to the public? If a business offered a service to the public, would that service not have to be offered and useable to individuals of the public with disabilities? The categories listed in the ada don't necessarily mean physical locations. They are categories of things the public would utilize. Public accommodation is something open/available to the public. Web sites aren't listed because they didn't exist but they are accessible by the public. If they weren't, they would be private sites and you would have to choose who you want on your site. For instance if I wanted to create a site for only my family to utilize. Please share your thoughts. This concerns me greatly. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:08 AM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotusblog.com%2Fcase-files%2Fcases%2Fdominos-pizza-llc-v-robles%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=EkxBzZTNrQVhMz3xam9rGIo39JTTNPIZkUuR8%2FrXrdo%3D&reserved=0= >>> >>> QP: Whether websites & apps have to be blind-accessible. CA9 below said yes. >>> >>> A bunch of amici have filed even on the cert petition. >>> >>> Seems likely to have widespread impacts, including on issues y'all >>> litigate. Would suggest you get in on amici pro respondent if you can. >>> >>> Deadline August 14 — and August 4 to get parties' consent. Sup. Ct. R. >>> 34(2)(a) >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Sai >>> >>> Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and autocorrect >>> errors. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=DLh1J6dhxVlud1u8NfGp%2BHW6N9dFqLpFOI%2BEOwDfOaw%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fawildheir%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=Uid%2BHXZhLrYWa3ROD0BWndm%2FhUezOaCjbrTeFT%2BPoTc%3D&reserved=0= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=DLh1J6dhxVlud1u8NfGp%2BHW6N9dFqLpFOI%2BEOwDfOaw%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=i4deYfHLaPggBCbgKkmo4WYMd3sYes0O7IqSIR3PrFE%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Sun Aug 11 00:13:33 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 00:13:33 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 In-Reply-To: <19AE6ECE-44A3-4AE8-854D-689F1E1BF5DC@gmail.com> References: <9F1B80E2-E49E-47E9-9E7F-6F6C01097FC8@gmail.com> <19AE6ECE-44A3-4AE8-854D-689F1E1BF5DC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for clarifying. Yes, this could be a major issue if it goes wrong. By the way this wouldn’t affect video description services since that exists under a completely different law passed 2 or so years ago. But in terms of your concerns about apps and websites I think they are well placed. Has the NFB moved on this? I believed they are involved at least at the affiliate level but not sure. What about the ACB? I know no one likes talking about them but they’ve moved on legal things like this before with accessible currency and it would be only good to have as many groups on this as possible. On Aug 10, 2019, at 3:35 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. ________________________________ A place of public access is anywhere the public has access. The public accesses a web site. The public accesses a mobile app. Dominos does not restrict access to its site or app to a specific group of people. Therefore, it is accessed by the public. Folks, if this goes wrong, we will no longer have the ability to hold anyone accountable if we cannot utilize any thing that is not a building. Microsoft, Apple, or any other technology company will see no reason to put the effort or funds into making things accessible. No more Netflix or amazon described videos. Basically, companies will realize they can say oh well to bad so sad because there will be no recourse for us. When the ADA was enacted, this is how it was applied. Are there any folks here old enough to have been an adult when the ADA was enacted? I am. It never meant only physical brick and mortar. The spirit of the law was whatever the public can utilize, it should also be available to the members of the public with disabilities. Next time you take an Uber, think about that app you use to get the Uber. If you use a guide dog, you could find yourselves with no recourse for denial of access because Uber drivers will say it's my car and I don't want dogs in it. Since it is my car and not a public building, I don't have to let you in. We have access to Uber now because they are offering a service to the public. The service is not a brick and mortar building. That's why the ADA is anything available to the public and the catagories are suggestions to things that are public and not private. I foresee this ruling leading to more and more denial for us as blind individuals. Aimee Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw > wrote: Anyone know if an app or site falls under the same classification as say a physical store? Or is this still a definition that is being worked out? On Aug 9, 2019, at 3:47 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. ________________________________ What stance has the NFB taken on this? I've read a couple of the briefs and so far they are against the ADA's coverage of online content and mobile apps. This seems, to me, a major concern that could result in our access of sites and apps to catapult backwards. Am I wrong in thinking public access is also anything that is offered to the public? If a business offered a service to the public, would that service not have to be offered and useable to individuals of the public with disabilities? The categories listed in the ada don't necessarily mean physical locations. They are categories of things the public would utilize. Public accommodation is something open/available to the public. Web sites aren't listed because they didn't exist but they are accessible by the public. If they weren't, they would be private sites and you would have to choose who you want on your site. For instance if I wanted to create a site for only my family to utilize. Please share your thoughts. This concerns me greatly. Aimee Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:08 AM, Sai via BlindLaw > wrote: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotusblog.com%2Fcase-files%2Fcases%2Fdominos-pizza-llc-v-robles%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cddaaf57aa76049349ad608d71dca35d1%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637010626632063220&sdata=tdbnuwBiuyU6LrYbuNw%2FnuJbxDuuFM%2FJDOcWfCAUDng%3D&reserved=0= QP: Whether websites & apps have to be blind-accessible. CA9 below said yes. A bunch of amici have filed even on the cert petition. Seems likely to have widespread impacts, including on issues y'all litigate. Would suggest you get in on amici pro respondent if you can. Deadline August 14 — and August 4 to get parties' consent. Sup. Ct. R. 34(2)(a) Sincerely, Sai Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and autocorrect errors. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cddaaf57aa76049349ad608d71dca35d1%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637010626632063220&sdata=XpjY4VwIYBiIT%2Bnh7WKIDGibUFHIhV82t0fx%2FgDZHP8%3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fawildheir%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cddaaf57aa76049349ad608d71dca35d1%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637010626632063220&sdata=rIox1SJcZ3KZBMWF2SrMaVUjCARaI8VvmhrOniThrIA%3D&reserved=0= _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cddaaf57aa76049349ad608d71dca35d1%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637010626632063220&sdata=XpjY4VwIYBiIT%2Bnh7WKIDGibUFHIhV82t0fx%2FgDZHP8%3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cddaaf57aa76049349ad608d71dca35d1%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637010626632063220&sdata=WgNEirpj4M89MKQwj1IWxwco8Gxiro4fvvGZmKEpMn4%3D&reserved=0= _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cddaaf57aa76049349ad608d71dca35d1%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637010626632063220&sdata=XpjY4VwIYBiIT%2Bnh7WKIDGibUFHIhV82t0fx%2FgDZHP8%3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fawildheir%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cddaaf57aa76049349ad608d71dca35d1%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637010626632063220&sdata=rIox1SJcZ3KZBMWF2SrMaVUjCARaI8VvmhrOniThrIA%3D&reserved=0= _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cddaaf57aa76049349ad608d71dca35d1%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637010626632063220&sdata=XpjY4VwIYBiIT%2Bnh7WKIDGibUFHIhV82t0fx%2FgDZHP8%3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cddaaf57aa76049349ad608d71dca35d1%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637010626632063220&sdata=WgNEirpj4M89MKQwj1IWxwco8Gxiro4fvvGZmKEpMn4%3D&reserved=0= From paezja at mail.broward.edu Sun Aug 11 00:47:54 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 00:47:54 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Totally blind prosecutor/public defender? In-Reply-To: References: <002a01d54535$14cb2ae0$3e6180a0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <86ADB1D1-F6A2-4B4F-A54A-153362081FBC@mail.broward.edu> Hello. Would someone mind introducing me to a totally blind public defender and/or prosecutor? I’m starting an internship with my county public defender’s office, and I know for a fact this is what I want to do post graduation from law school, So it would be amazing if I could have a mentor who’s already doing it. Please let me know. Thanks, Jorge On Jul 28, 2019, at 3:44 PM, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw > wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. ________________________________ When I was a prosecutor, I had minimal residual vision but not anything that was useful in litigation. Yes, you can definitely prosecute with no vision. Peggy Elliot did so a couple of decades ago in Iowa and by the time I did it, it was even easier with reasonably good Braille and tech skills. Patti Chang Esq. Director of Outreach 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org Cell: 773-307-6440 The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation’s blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Denise Avant via BlindLaw Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 6:11 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: State President, Illinois > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Totally blind prosecutor/public defender? Hello, There are three totally blind Public Defenders in Chicago. Two of whom are practicing in trial courtrooms. There is a totally blind prosecutor with the U.S. Attorneys office for the Northern District of Illinois. I am now retired, but for 30 years did appellate and postconviction work for the public defenders office. You can definitely do the work of a prosecutor or a public defender, using a reader and assistive technology and other blindness skills. I hope this helps. Denise R. Avant, Esq. President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois 773-991-8050 Live the life you want. For more information about NFBI, Go to https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfbofillinois.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=fDNgf3zz0iMUk6enkTxbhObCduYpSkKEWjGOHpFdaAM%3D&reserved=0= -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:16 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Jorge Paez > Subject: [blindLaw] Totally blind prosecutor/public defender? Hello all: So with the recent chat about criminal law I figured I’d jump in and ask my question. I’m planning to go to law school for criminal law, either was a prosecutor or public defender. I know there are a few blind prosecutors on here, but since the Federation covers anyone who is legally blind to totally blind I was wondering, could someone who was totally blind, i.e. no sight whatsoever, do it? I’m totally blind so that’s why I’m asking. Thanks, Jorge _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=DYXELehn%2FSZGyRdnjwGoPWilNMJjzSFi6giUbYS0pYQ%3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdavant1958%40gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=tqqCngDzWhVD6VKYtMZmu2HuBKVKU6yAjgO9p%2BQcS7M%3D&reserved=0= _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=DYXELehn%2FSZGyRdnjwGoPWilNMJjzSFi6giUbYS0pYQ%3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpchang%40nfb.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=ElTytv%2B14lrcyYbXVaZHf%2FYkdmdePa7OoaaPREMQ%2Fm4%3D&reserved=0= Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. 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To find out more visit the Mimecast website. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=DYXELehn%2FSZGyRdnjwGoPWilNMJjzSFi6giUbYS0pYQ%3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830448986&sdata=jSfuLqdxSKHXDElzQsUFPEAw86E2eKzKI9fqF5O%2B4Qo%3D&reserved=0= From paezja at mail.broward.edu Sun Aug 11 03:47:03 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 03:47:03 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Research management Message-ID: <2C521F59-EF98-4F43-8F1E-0B29C9B145AF@mail.broward.edu> Hi everyone. I was just wondering how you kept your research organized? Do you take notes when you’re looking up case law and then save that separately for future reference or do you always keep the caselaw of a particular case exclusively in that case file? Thanks, Jorge From tim at timeldermusic.com Mon Aug 12 01:39:24 2019 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (tim at timeldermusic.com) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 18:39:24 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 In-Reply-To: <19AE6ECE-44A3-4AE8-854D-689F1E1BF5DC@gmail.com> References: <9F1B80E2-E49E-47E9-9E7F-6F6C01097FC8@gmail.com> <19AE6ECE-44A3-4AE8-854D-689F1E1BF5DC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00cf01d550ae$c5f3f9d0$51dbed70$@timeldermusic.com> FWIW: I'd be surprised if SCOTUS granted cert on this case. There is absolutely nothing in dispute among the appellate courts that is at issue in this litigation. Every single appellate court to hear the issue agrees that the language of the ADA can apply to the services of a place of public accommodation, including websites and mobile apps that have a physical nexus to the enumerated places. A majority of extremely activist judges would be required to hear this case. It would be extremely drastic for SCOTUS to completely ignore all the careful thought that courts have agreed upon. We might see a website case in the future, but this particular one is a poor choice to resolve any potential circuit splits. -----Original Message----- From: Aimee Harwood Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2019 12:36 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 A place of public access is anywhere the public has access. The public accesses a web site. The public accesses a mobile app. Dominos does not restrict access to its site or app to a specific group of people. Therefore, it is accessed by the public. Folks, if this goes wrong, we will no longer have the ability to hold anyone accountable if we cannot utilize any thing that is not a building. Microsoft, Apple, or any other technology company will see no reason to put the effort or funds into making things accessible. No more Netflix or amazon described videos. Basically, companies will realize they can say oh well to bad so sad because there will be no recourse for us. When the ADA was enacted, this is how it was applied. Are there any folks here old enough to have been an adult when the ADA was enacted? I am. It never meant only physical brick and mortar. The spirit of the law was whatever the public can utilize, it should also be available to the members of the public with disabilities. Next time you take an Uber, think about that app you use to get the Uber. If you use a guide dog, you could find yourselves with no recourse for denial of access because Uber drivers will say it's my car and I don't want dogs in it. Since it is my car and not a public building, I don't have to let you in. We have access to Uber now because they are offering a service to the public. The service is not a brick and mortar building. That's why the ADA is anything available to the public and the catagories are suggestions to things that are public and not private. I foresee this ruling leading to more and more denial for us as blind individuals. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Anyone know if an app or site falls under the same classification as say a physical store? > Or is this still a definition that is being worked out? > > > >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 3:47 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> What stance has the NFB taken on this? I've read a couple of the briefs and so far they are against the ADA's coverage of online content and mobile apps. This seems, to me, a major concern that could result in our access of sites and apps to catapult backwards. Am I wrong in thinking public access is also anything that is offered to the public? If a business offered a service to the public, would that service not have to be offered and useable to individuals of the public with disabilities? The categories listed in the ada don't necessarily mean physical locations. They are categories of things the public would utilize. Public accommodation is something open/available to the public. Web sites aren't listed because they didn't exist but they are accessible by the public. If they weren't, they would be private sites and you would have to choose who you want on your site. For instance if I wanted to create a site for only my family to utilize. Please share your thoughts. This concerns me greatly. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:08 AM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww >>> w.scotusblog.com%2Fcase-files%2Fcases%2Fdominos-pizza-llc-v-robles%2 >>> F&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e >>> 608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769 >>> 136071813&sdata=EkxBzZTNrQVhMz3xam9rGIo39JTTNPIZkUuR8%2FrXrdo%3D >>> &reserved=0= >>> >>> QP: Whether websites & apps have to be blind-accessible. CA9 below said yes. >>> >>> A bunch of amici have filed even on the cert petition. >>> >>> Seems likely to have widespread impacts, including on issues y'all >>> litigate. Would suggest you get in on amici pro respondent if you can. >>> >>> Deadline August 14 — and August 4 to get parties' consent. Sup. Ct. R. >>> 34(2)(a) >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Sai >>> >>> Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and >>> autocorrect errors. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd >>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata >>> =DLh1J6dhxVlud1u8NfGp%2BHW6N9dFqLpFOI%2BEOwDfOaw%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fawildheir%2540gm >>> ail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4 >>> 952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637 >>> 009769136071813&sdata=Uid%2BHXZhLrYWa3ROD0BWndm%2FhUezOaCjbrTeFT >>> %2BPoTc%3D&reserved=0= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >> et.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C >> paezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e6 >> 2933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=DLh >> 1J6dhxVlud1u8NfGp%2BHW6N9dFqLpFOI%2BEOwDfOaw%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >> et.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.br >> oward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b >> 4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637 >> 009769136071813&sdata=i4deYfHLaPggBCbgKkmo4WYMd3sYes0O7IqSIR3PrFE >> %3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai > l.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 10:28:11 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 11:28:11 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment Message-ID: <1CFD8527-CA41-4335-8212-03A4AE2CC884@gmail.com> Hi All, The organization where I am currently working operates in an RD environment for security reasons. JAWS becomes completely silent when the remote desktop launches. Is there any way to make it operate in this environment? They use jaws 2019 and win1p0 (I suppose). Best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone From paezja at mail.broward.edu Mon Aug 12 10:33:35 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 10:33:35 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment In-Reply-To: <1CFD8527-CA41-4335-8212-03A4AE2CC884@gmail.com> References: <1CFD8527-CA41-4335-8212-03A4AE2CC884@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5F1B601B-EF5D-4C73-B224-78D36F531B9D@mail.broward.edu> If it’s a Citrix platform I know Vispero has something for that, but you should call them to get more info. > On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:28 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > Hi All, > > The organization where I am currently working operates in an RD environment for security reasons. JAWS becomes completely silent when the remote desktop launches. Is there any way to make it operate in this environment? > > They use jaws 2019 and win1p0 (I suppose). > > Best, > Rahul > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=B%2FXezweuJ632SnoV7FHGuj%2BLM7%2FzuKqmLx9JjmFEWfk%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=cgfUdDYmrL7ttUpGZwcQ65MXDFLPrJwmYdDo%2FXCMAJU%3D&reserved=0= From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 11:06:45 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 07:06:45 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment In-Reply-To: <5F1B601B-EF5D-4C73-B224-78D36F531B9D@mail.broward.edu> References: <1CFD8527-CA41-4335-8212-03A4AE2CC884@gmail.com> <5F1B601B-EF5D-4C73-B224-78D36F531B9D@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: Rahul, My knowledge on this is limited, but you definitely need to purchase an additional remote access license from Vispero. I was never able to get Citrix platforms to work correctly, though, because it's just an image of your desktop. But the remote license let's me use VPN's. If Vispero has made progress on Citrix, definitely let us know! Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:33 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > If it’s a Citrix platform I know Vispero has something for that, but you should call them to get more info. > > >> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:28 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> Hi All, >> >> The organization where I am currently working operates in an RD environment for security reasons. JAWS becomes completely silent when the remote desktop launches. Is there any way to make it operate in this environment? >> >> They use jaws 2019 and win1p0 (I suppose). >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=B%2FXezweuJ632SnoV7FHGuj%2BLM7%2FzuKqmLx9JjmFEWfk%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=cgfUdDYmrL7ttUpGZwcQ65MXDFLPrJwmYdDo%2FXCMAJU%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From tim at timeldermusic.com Mon Aug 12 19:27:12 2019 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (tim at timeldermusic.com) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 12:27:12 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 In-Reply-To: <00cf01d550ae$c5f3f9d0$51dbed70$@timeldermusic.com> References: <9F1B80E2-E49E-47E9-9E7F-6F6C01097FC8@gmail.com> <19AE6ECE-44A3-4AE8-854D-689F1E1BF5DC@gmail.com> <00cf01d550ae$c5f3f9d0$51dbed70$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <007201d55143$f203c650$d60b52f0$@timeldermusic.com> And by majority I mean at least four exceptionally activist judges that would be required to grant cert on this unmeritorious petition. -----Original Message----- From: tim at timeldermusic.com Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2019 6:39 PM To: 'Aimee Harwood' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 FWIW: I'd be surprised if SCOTUS granted cert on this case. There is absolutely nothing in dispute among the appellate courts that is at issue in this litigation. Every single appellate court to hear the issue agrees that the language of the ADA can apply to the services of a place of public accommodation, including websites and mobile apps that have a physical nexus to the enumerated places. A majority of extremely activist judges would be required to hear this case. It would be extremely drastic for SCOTUS to completely ignore all the careful thought that courts have agreed upon. We might see a website case in the future, but this particular one is a poor choice to resolve any potential circuit splits. -----Original Message----- From: Aimee Harwood Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2019 12:36 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 A place of public access is anywhere the public has access. The public accesses a web site. The public accesses a mobile app. Dominos does not restrict access to its site or app to a specific group of people. Therefore, it is accessed by the public. Folks, if this goes wrong, we will no longer have the ability to hold anyone accountable if we cannot utilize any thing that is not a building. Microsoft, Apple, or any other technology company will see no reason to put the effort or funds into making things accessible. No more Netflix or amazon described videos. Basically, companies will realize they can say oh well to bad so sad because there will be no recourse for us. When the ADA was enacted, this is how it was applied. Are there any folks here old enough to have been an adult when the ADA was enacted? I am. It never meant only physical brick and mortar. The spirit of the law was whatever the public can utilize, it should also be available to the members of the public with disabilities. Next time you take an Uber, think about that app you use to get the Uber. If you use a guide dog, you could find yourselves with no recourse for denial of access because Uber drivers will say it's my car and I don't want dogs in it. Since it is my car and not a public building, I don't have to let you in. We have access to Uber now because they are offering a service to the public. The service is not a brick and mortar building. That's why the ADA is anything available to the public and the catagories are suggestions to things that are public and not private. I foresee this ruling leading to more and more denial for us as blind individuals. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Anyone know if an app or site falls under the same classification as say a physical store? > Or is this still a definition that is being worked out? > > > >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 3:47 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> What stance has the NFB taken on this? I've read a couple of the briefs and so far they are against the ADA's coverage of online content and mobile apps. This seems, to me, a major concern that could result in our access of sites and apps to catapult backwards. Am I wrong in thinking public access is also anything that is offered to the public? If a business offered a service to the public, would that service not have to be offered and useable to individuals of the public with disabilities? The categories listed in the ada don't necessarily mean physical locations. They are categories of things the public would utilize. Public accommodation is something open/available to the public. Web sites aren't listed because they didn't exist but they are accessible by the public. If they weren't, they would be private sites and you would have to choose who you want on your site. For instance if I wanted to create a site for only my family to utilize. Please share your thoughts. This concerns me greatly. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:08 AM, Sai via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww >>> w.scotusblog.com%2Fcase-files%2Fcases%2Fdominos-pizza-llc-v-robles%2 >>> F&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e >>> 608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769 >>> 136071813&sdata=EkxBzZTNrQVhMz3xam9rGIo39JTTNPIZkUuR8%2FrXrdo%3D >>> &reserved=0= >>> >>> QP: Whether websites & apps have to be blind-accessible. CA9 below said yes. >>> >>> A bunch of amici have filed even on the cert petition. >>> >>> Seems likely to have widespread impacts, including on issues y'all >>> litigate. Would suggest you get in on amici pro respondent if you can. >>> >>> Deadline August 14 — and August 4 to get parties' consent. Sup. Ct. R. >>> 34(2)(a) >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Sai >>> >>> Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and >>> autocorrect errors. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd >>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata >>> =DLh1J6dhxVlud1u8NfGp%2BHW6N9dFqLpFOI%2BEOwDfOaw%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fawildheir%2540gm >>> ail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4 >>> 952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637 >>> 009769136071813&sdata=Uid%2BHXZhLrYWa3ROD0BWndm%2FhUezOaCjbrTeFT >>> %2BPoTc%3D&reserved=0= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >> et.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C >> paezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e6 >> 2933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637009769136071813&sdata=DLh >> 1J6dhxVlud1u8NfGp%2BHW6N9dFqLpFOI%2BEOwDfOaw%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >> et.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.br >> oward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2ed2f2b35e1b >> 4952d1e608d71d028f3c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637 >> 009769136071813&sdata=i4deYfHLaPggBCbgKkmo4WYMd3sYes0O7IqSIR3PrFE >> %3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai > l.com From mnowicki4 at iCloud.com Mon Aug 12 19:53:42 2019 From: mnowicki4 at iCloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 14:53:42 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment In-Reply-To: References: <1CFD8527-CA41-4335-8212-03A4AE2CC884@gmail.com> <5F1B601B-EF5D-4C73-B224-78D36F531B9D@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: Rahul, I work at a law firm where everyone uses Citrix on a regular basis,. I had to purchase a Remote Access License from Vispero, which costs $200 in the U.S. I don’t know how much you have to pay in India, but I’m sure you can find out by contacting your local Vispero distributor. I hope this helps. Michal Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 6:08 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment Rahul, My knowledge on this is limited, but you definitely need to purchase an additional remote access license from Vispero. I was never able to get Citrix platforms to work correctly, though, because it's just an image of your desktop. But the remote license let's me use VPN's. If Vispero has made progress on Citrix, definitely let us know! Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:33 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > If it’s a Citrix platform I know Vispero has something for that, but you should call them to get more info. > > >> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:28 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> Hi All, >> >> The organization where I am currently working operates in an RD environment for security reasons. JAWS becomes completely silent when the remote desktop launches. Is there any way to make it operate in this environment? >> >> They use jaws 2019 and win1p0 (I suppose). >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=B%2FXezweuJ632SnoV7FHGuj%2BLM7%2FzuKqmLx9JjmFEWfk%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=cgfUdDYmrL7ttUpGZwcQ65MXDFLPrJwmYdDo%2FXCMAJU%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 19:58:58 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 20:58:58 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment In-Reply-To: <5d51c406.1c69fb81.5f830.0125SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <1CFD8527-CA41-4335-8212-03A4AE2CC884@gmail.com> <5F1B601B-EF5D-4C73-B224-78D36F531B9D@mail.broward.edu> <5d51c406.1c69fb81.5f830.0125SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks, everyone. The IT department of the place where I am working currently is going to purchase a remote access license. I believe they use a Microsoft remote desktop application. They are currently waiting for their IT provider to reach the conclusion that I have about purchasing this license being the way forward. Best, Rahul On 12/08/2019, Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw wrote: > Rahul, > > I work at a law firm where everyone uses Citrix on a regular basis,. I had > to purchase a Remote Access License from Vispero, which costs $200 in the > U.S. I don’t know how much you have to pay in India, but I’m sure you can > find out by contacting your local Vispero distributor. I hope this helps. > > Michal > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 6:08 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment > > Rahul, > > My knowledge on this is limited, but you definitely need to purchase an > additional remote access license from Vispero. I was never able to get > Citrix platforms to work correctly, though, because it's just an image of > your desktop. But the remote license let's me use VPN's. If Vispero has made > progress on Citrix, definitely let us know! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:33 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> If it’s a Citrix platform I know Vispero has something for that, but you >> should call them to get more info. >> >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:28 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT >>> click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and >>> you recognize the sender. >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> The organization where I am currently working operates in an RD >>> environment for security reasons. JAWS becomes completely silent when the >>> remote desktop launches. Is there any way to make it operate in this >>> environment? >>> >>> They use jaws 2019 and win1p0 (I suppose). >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=B%2FXezweuJ632SnoV7FHGuj%2BLM7%2FzuKqmLx9JjmFEWfk%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=cgfUdDYmrL7ttUpGZwcQ65MXDFLPrJwmYdDo%2FXCMAJU%3D&reserved=0= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > -- -- Rahul Bajaj Candidate for the BCL Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Mon Aug 12 20:04:43 2019 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 14:04:43 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 In-Reply-To: <00cf01d550ae$c5f3f9d0$51dbed70$@timeldermusic.com> References: <9F1B80E2-E49E-47E9-9E7F-6F6C01097FC8@gmail.com> <19AE6ECE-44A3-4AE8-854D-689F1E1BF5DC@gmail.com> <00cf01d550ae$c5f3f9d0$51dbed70$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <013301d55149$2ec03ab0$8c40b010$@com> Tim, I don't trust this Supreme Court to leave it alone! I posit that everyone of them on that bench care very little about where technology is and how far along it will take humanity. Judging by what had previously transpired whereby SCOTUS watered-down ADA quite a bit, I won't hedge my bets that it won't worsen things now. All that aside, I do wish to be proven wrong, even though doing so won't necessarily change my thoughts of SCOTUS! In any case, it will be interesting to see how this whole process keeps Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 alive and well. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From laura.wolk at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 20:25:19 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:25:19 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment In-Reply-To: <5d51c404.1c69fb81.d8824.d20bSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <1CFD8527-CA41-4335-8212-03A4AE2CC884@gmail.com> <5F1B601B-EF5D-4C73-B224-78D36F531B9D@mail.broward.edu> <5d51c404.1c69fb81.d8824.d20bSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Michal, I had a remote license and it still did not allow me to access the Citrix desktop. I spoke with other blind folks and they had similar experiences. We could only remote into the actual machine, not access a virtual environment. How were you able to do this? On 8/12/19, Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw wrote: > Rahul, > > I work at a law firm where everyone uses Citrix on a regular basis,. I had > to purchase a Remote Access License from Vispero, which costs $200 in the > U.S. I don’t know how much you have to pay in India, but I’m sure you can > find out by contacting your local Vispero distributor. I hope this helps. > > Michal > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 6:08 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment > > Rahul, > > My knowledge on this is limited, but you definitely need to purchase an > additional remote access license from Vispero. I was never able to get > Citrix platforms to work correctly, though, because it's just an image of > your desktop. But the remote license let's me use VPN's. If Vispero has made > progress on Citrix, definitely let us know! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:33 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> If it’s a Citrix platform I know Vispero has something for that, but you >> should call them to get more info. >> >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:28 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT >>> click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and >>> you recognize the sender. >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> The organization where I am currently working operates in an RD >>> environment for security reasons. JAWS becomes completely silent when the >>> remote desktop launches. Is there any way to make it operate in this >>> environment? >>> >>> They use jaws 2019 and win1p0 (I suppose). >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=B%2FXezweuJ632SnoV7FHGuj%2BLM7%2FzuKqmLx9JjmFEWfk%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=cgfUdDYmrL7ttUpGZwcQ65MXDFLPrJwmYdDo%2FXCMAJU%3D&reserved=0= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From amarjain at amarjain.com Tue Aug 13 02:28:11 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 07:58:11 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment In-Reply-To: References: <1CFD8527-CA41-4335-8212-03A4AE2CC884@gmail.com> <5F1B601B-EF5D-4C73-B224-78D36F531B9D@mail.broward.edu> <5d51c404.1c69fb81.d8824.d20bSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55891B20-740C-49A8-B738-BBF8179100DC@amarjain.com> I have been using Citrix since last 3 years guys. You need to install Jaws with remote access component on your desktop i.e. client, and a server machine, where Jaws needs to be published as a desktop app and your account needs to be tide to that server. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone > On 13-Aug-2019, at 1:55 AM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > Michal, > > I had a remote license and it still did not allow me to access the > Citrix desktop. I spoke with other blind folks and they had similar > experiences. We could only remote into the actual machine, not access > a virtual environment. How were you able to do this? > > On 8/12/19, Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw wrote: >> Rahul, >> >> I work at a law firm where everyone uses Citrix on a regular basis,. I had >> to purchase a Remote Access License from Vispero, which costs $200 in the >> U.S. I don’t know how much you have to pay in India, but I’m sure you can >> find out by contacting your local Vispero distributor. I hope this helps. >> >> Michal >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 6:08 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment >> >> Rahul, >> >> My knowledge on this is limited, but you definitely need to purchase an >> additional remote access license from Vispero. I was never able to get >> Citrix platforms to work correctly, though, because it's just an image of >> your desktop. But the remote license let's me use VPN's. If Vispero has made >> progress on Citrix, definitely let us know! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:33 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> If it’s a Citrix platform I know Vispero has something for that, but you >>> should call them to get more info. >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:28 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT >>>> click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and >>>> you recognize the sender. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> The organization where I am currently working operates in an RD >>>> environment for security reasons. JAWS becomes completely silent when the >>>> remote desktop launches. Is there any way to make it operate in this >>>> environment? >>>> >>>> They use jaws 2019 and win1p0 (I suppose). >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=B%2FXezweuJ632SnoV7FHGuj%2BLM7%2FzuKqmLx9JjmFEWfk%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=cgfUdDYmrL7ttUpGZwcQ65MXDFLPrJwmYdDo%2FXCMAJU%3D&reserved=0= >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com From amarjain at amarjain.com Tue Aug 13 02:33:02 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 08:03:02 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment In-Reply-To: References: <1CFD8527-CA41-4335-8212-03A4AE2CC884@gmail.com> <5F1B601B-EF5D-4C73-B224-78D36F531B9D@mail.broward.edu> <5d51c406.1c69fb81.5f830.0125SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Message-ID: RB, search for a PDF called using Jaws with remote services or something similar, it is there on the FS website. Send that to them as is. I am unavailable till tomorrow India morning, will call you to sort this out tomorrow itself. Cheers, AJ Sent from my iPhone > On 13-Aug-2019, at 1:28 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: > > Thanks, everyone. The IT department of the place where I am working > currently is going to purchase a remote access license. I believe they > use a Microsoft remote desktop application. They are currently waiting > for their IT provider to reach the conclusion that I have about > purchasing this license being the way forward. > > Best, > Rahul > >> On 12/08/2019, Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw wrote: >> Rahul, >> >> I work at a law firm where everyone uses Citrix on a regular basis,. I had >> to purchase a Remote Access License from Vispero, which costs $200 in the >> U.S. I don’t know how much you have to pay in India, but I’m sure you can >> find out by contacting your local Vispero distributor. I hope this helps. >> >> Michal >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> From: Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 6:08 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Using JAWS in Remote Desktop Environment >> >> Rahul, >> >> My knowledge on this is limited, but you definitely need to purchase an >> additional remote access license from Vispero. I was never able to get >> Citrix platforms to work correctly, though, because it's just an image of >> your desktop. But the remote license let's me use VPN's. If Vispero has made >> progress on Citrix, definitely let us know! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:33 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> If it’s a Citrix platform I know Vispero has something for that, but you >>> should call them to get more info. >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 6:28 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT >>>> click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and >>>> you recognize the sender. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> The organization where I am currently working operates in an RD >>>> environment for security reasons. JAWS becomes completely silent when the >>>> remote desktop launches. Is there any way to make it operate in this >>>> environment? >>>> >>>> They use jaws 2019 and win1p0 (I suppose). >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=B%2FXezweuJ632SnoV7FHGuj%2BLM7%2FzuKqmLx9JjmFEWfk%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4d6b39917fdd4a898af508d71f100361%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637012025948122279&sdata=cgfUdDYmrL7ttUpGZwcQ65MXDFLPrJwmYdDo%2FXCMAJU%3D&reserved=0= >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > -- > Rahul Bajaj > Candidate for the BCL > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) > University of Oxford > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Tue Aug 13 13:08:18 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:08:18 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Totally blind prosecutor/public defender? In-Reply-To: <86ADB1D1-F6A2-4B4F-A54A-153362081FBC@mail.broward.edu> References: <002a01d54535$14cb2ae0$3e6180a0$@gmail.com> <86ADB1D1-F6A2-4B4F-A54A-153362081FBC@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: I work in a county DA's office as an assistant DA. I haven't had the chance to do a jury trial yet because I am new. There are definitely some tricky aspects to it, especially because all of our digital files are scanned; sometimes certain documents or tables within documents, are very difficult to read with a screen reader. There are definitely solutions, but you do have to work out your own system. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 10, 2019, at 8:47 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello. > Would someone mind introducing me to a totally blind public defender and/or prosecutor? > I’m starting an internship with my county public defender’s office, and I know for a fact this is what I want to do post graduation from law school, > So it would be amazing if I could have a mentor who’s already doing it. > Please let me know. > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > > > On Jul 28, 2019, at 3:44 PM, Chang, Patti via BlindLaw > wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > When I was a prosecutor, I had minimal residual vision but not anything that was useful in litigation. Yes, you can definitely prosecute with no vision. Peggy Elliot did so a couple of decades ago in Iowa and by the time I did it, it was even easier with reasonably good Braille and tech skills. > > > Patti Chang Esq. > Director of Outreach > 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 > (410) 659-9314, extension 2422 | pchang at nfb.org > Cell: 773-307-6440 > > > > > > > The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation’s blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Denise Avant via BlindLaw > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 6:11 AM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > > Cc: State President, Illinois > > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Totally blind prosecutor/public defender? > > Hello, > There are three totally blind Public Defenders in Chicago. Two of whom are practicing in trial courtrooms. There is a totally blind prosecutor with the U.S. Attorneys office for the Northern District of Illinois. I am now retired, but for 30 years did appellate and postconviction work for the public defenders office. > You can definitely do the work of a prosecutor or a public defender, using a reader and assistive technology and other blindness skills. > I hope this helps. > > > > Denise R. Avant, Esq. > President, > National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > 773-991-8050 > Live the life you want. > > For more information about NFBI, > Go to https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfbofillinois.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=fDNgf3zz0iMUk6enkTxbhObCduYpSkKEWjGOHpFdaAM%3D&reserved=0= > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via BlindLaw > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:16 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > > Cc: Jorge Paez > > Subject: [blindLaw] Totally blind prosecutor/public defender? > > Hello all: > So with the recent chat about criminal law I figured I’d jump in and ask my question. > I’m planning to go to law school for criminal law, either was a prosecutor or public defender. > I know there are a few blind prosecutors on here, but since the Federation covers anyone who is legally blind to totally blind I was wondering, could someone who was totally blind, i.e. no sight whatsoever, do it? > I’m totally blind so that’s why I’m asking. > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=DYXELehn%2FSZGyRdnjwGoPWilNMJjzSFi6giUbYS0pYQ%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdavant1958%40gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=tqqCngDzWhVD6VKYtMZmu2HuBKVKU6yAjgO9p%2BQcS7M%3D&reserved=0= > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=DYXELehn%2FSZGyRdnjwGoPWilNMJjzSFi6giUbYS0pYQ%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpchang%40nfb.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=ElTytv%2B14lrcyYbXVaZHf%2FYkdmdePa7OoaaPREMQ%2Fm4%3D&reserved=0= > > Disclaimer > > The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website. > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830438996&sdata=DYXELehn%2FSZGyRdnjwGoPWilNMJjzSFi6giUbYS0pYQ%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C814f57e29b8d43aafb6d08d713947f7c%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C636999400830448986&sdata=jSfuLqdxSKHXDElzQsUFPEAw86E2eKzKI9fqF5O%2B4Qo%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Wed Aug 14 01:27:50 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 01:27:50 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] PDFs on the Mac Message-ID: <8E055F83-2F60-4002-B19D-46A49ACED0BA@mail.broward.edu> Hello everyone. So usually for PDFs on my Mac I just use Preview, which is the default application. However I notice it seems to have a size complication. Whenever I load a file into it that is bigger then a couple of pages it freezes. Anyone have an alternative app for PDFs? Thanks, Jorge From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Aug 14 12:06:29 2019 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 08:06:29 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] bluebooking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006701d55298$b73d1d40$25b757c0$@nyc.rr.com> Hello: Are you attending CUNY Law School in NYC, or am I confusing you with someone else? Ray Wayne, Brooklyn, NY -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Sarah Badillo via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 8:12 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Sarah Badillo Subject: [blindLaw] bluebooking Hello, I am currently in law school but have not yet found a way to properly sight my sources in briefs and other documents. I have found punctuation when using sitations to be difficult. Does anyone have a way they have found works with sighting things in articles and documents? Also, do you use a cheat sheet? or is there an accessable form of the bluebook? Thanks. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 14:06:41 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 10:06:41 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public Message-ID: <882500E2-0EF5-4AC6-B12C-A3788808315B@gmail.com> Hi Everyone, Im resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a student. (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues I had as a student? I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with this request. Aimee Sent from my iPhone From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Aug 15 16:06:40 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 16:06:40 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Office For Civil Rights: Vacancy Announcement for Supervisory General Attorney (Regional Director), GS-0905-15 & Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist (Regional Director), GS-0360-15 in San Francisco Office In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: See below the link for the U.S. Department of Education Office for Civil Rights USAJOBS vacancy announcements for an Supervisory General Attorney (Regional Director), GS-0905-15 & Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist (Regional Director), GS-0360-15 in San Francisco Regional Office. The opening date is 08/15/2019 and closing date is 08/28/2019. Announcement(s): OCR-HQ-2019-0035 Supervisory General Attorney (Regional Director), GS-0905-15 (DE) https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/542690300 OCR-HQ-2019-0038 Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist (Regional Director), GS-0360-15 (MP) https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/542659800 OCR-HQ-2019-0039 Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist (Regional Director), GS-0360-15 (DE) https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/542659600 Lakesha Spratley From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Aug 15 16:08:23 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 16:08:23 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Office For Civil Rights: Vacancy Announcement for Supervisory General Attorney (Regional Director), GS-0905-15 & Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist (Regional Director), GS-0360-15 in Boston Regional Office In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: See below the link for the U.S. Department of education Office for Civil Rights USAJOBS vacancy announcements for an Supervisory General Attorney (Regional Director), GS-0905-15 & Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist (Regional Director), GS-0360-15 in Boston Regional Office. The opening date is 08/15/2019 and closing date is 08/28/2019. Announcement(s): BOS-OCR-2019-0008 Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist (Regional Director), GS-0360-15 (MP) https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/542660900 BOS-OCR-2019-0009 Supervisory Equal Opportunity Specialist (Regional Director), GS-0360-15 (DE) https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/542661600 BOS-OCR-2019-0010 Supervisory General Attorney (Regional Director), GS-0905-15 (DE) https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/542690100 From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Aug 16 11:20:19 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 07:20:19 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns Message-ID: Hi all, As some of you may know, if you download opinions from Westlaw in Word format, the text displays as two columns on the page. For reasons that are unavoidable, I sometimes need to work with these documents. I also need to cite to them as they are displayed, so converting is yet again not an option. Neitehr is going to Westlaw itself and reading the opinion directly or via another format. I can do that if all I need is the info; I can't if I need to cite it. When I try reading these documents with Jaws, it will just read straight down the column instead of going back up to the top of the page to read the other column. Does anyone know of a setting I can change so that Jaws will recognize and read these documents correctly? Thanks, Laura From angie.matney at gmail.com Fri Aug 16 15:04:31 2019 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 11:04:31 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C292767-3A9A-4D0F-8764-EA45605C571C@gmail.com> Laura, I'm interested to see others' responses. What I sometimes do is to use the read-by-sentence commands, alt+ up or down arrow, rather than just using the arrows to read the document. You can also turn on quick keys (insert + z) and read by paragraph (p to advance to the next paragraph, shipt+ p to go to the previous paragraph). These are the only two ways I know of for dealing with columns without changing the document. Maybe others have some good ideas. Best, Angie Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 16, 2019, at 7:20 AM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi all, > > As some of you may know, if you download opinions from Westlaw in Word > format, the text displays as two columns on the page. For reasons > that are unavoidable, I sometimes need to work with these documents. > I also need to cite to them as they are displayed, so converting is > yet again not an option. Neitehr is going to Westlaw itself and > reading the opinion directly or via another format. I can do that if > all I need is the info; I can't if I need to cite it. > > When I try reading these documents with Jaws, it will just read > straight down the column instead of going back up to the top of the > page to read the other column. Does anyone know of a setting I can > change so that Jaws will recognize and read these documents correctly? > > Thanks, > Laura > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Aug 16 15:23:37 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 09:23:37 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <054d01d55446$93ae3850$bb0aa8f0$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 6:39 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Good morning, What’s new? The online application for the Attorney General’s Honors Program (HP) and the Summer Law Intern Program (SLIP) opened July 31, 2019. The deadline for law students and eligible graduates to apply is Sunday, September 8, 2019. The Attorney General’s Honors Program has been recognized as the nation's premier entry-level federal attorney recruitment program. HP information, including participating components, eligibility guidelines, and application instructions can be found at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/entry-level-attorneys. Information about SLIP and a link to the application is at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/summer-law-intern-program. Please spread the word about these exciting legal hiring programs and opportunities to join the U.S. Department of Justice! Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. The Department of Justice office places a high value on diversity of experiences and perspectives and encourages applications from all qualified men and women from all ethnic and racial backgrounds, veterans, LGBT individuals, and persons with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. Manage Your Email: If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. If you would like to update your contact information, please submit the following information: SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: Attorney Vacancies & Volunteer Legal Internships Attorney Vacancies & Volunteer Legal Internships Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) Job Title Volunteer Legal Intern, Spring 2020 State Pennsylvania Posted/ Updated August 16, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Attorney's Office (USAO) Job Title Attorney State Montana Posted/ Updated August 15, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) Job Title ATTORNEY ADVISOR - FOIA/PA State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated August 15, 2019 Hiring Organization Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) Job Title Volunteer Legal Intern State New Jersey Posted/ Updated August 15, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title International Computer Hacking and Intellectual Property Attorney Advisor, Ethiopia State Posted/ Updated August 15, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Resident Legal Advisor, Algeria State Posted/ Updated August 15, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Resident Legal Advisor, Ghana State Posted/ Updated August 15, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Attorney Advisor (Deputy Judicial Attaché) State Posted/ Updated August 14, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Intermittent Legal Advisor, Brazil State Posted/ Updated August 14, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Washington Job Title Summer Law Clerk State Washington Posted/ Updated August 14, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Washington Job Title Legal Extern State Washington Posted/ Updated August 14, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Virginia Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Virginia Posted/ Updated August 14, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Lead Trial Attorney (Assistant Deputy Chief, Health Care Fraud Unit) State New Jersey Posted/ Updated August 14, 2019 Hiring Organization National Security Division (NSD) Job Title Attorney Advisor - Oversight State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated August 13, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Colorado Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Spring 2020 State Colorado Posted/ Updated August 13, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Virginia Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Virginia Posted/ Updated August 13, 2019 Hiring Organization Executive Office for United States Attorneys (EOUSA) Job Title Attorney Advisor State South Carolina Posted/ Updated August 13, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Nevada Job Title Assistant U.S. Attorney State Nevada Posted/ Updated August 12, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Middle District of Pennsylvania Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Pennsylvania Posted/ Updated August 12, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Attorney's Office (USAO) Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Indiana Posted/ Updated August 12, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Oklahoma Job Title Assistant United States Attorney's Office State Oklahoma Posted/ Updated August 12, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) Job Title Attorney-Adviser State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated August 9, 2019 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com Fri Aug 16 17:40:24 2019 From: BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com (Brian Unitt) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 17:40:24 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16739cec94484e2da251737a5afb8212@holsteinlaw.com> Hi Laura, I am not sure whether this is helpful for what you need to accomplish, but there is an option to download as a word document without the two-column format. I am attaching a sample case. When you press the download button and choose word format from the drop down box, you can tab to "layout options" and there is a checkbox for two column format that can be unchecked. Of course if you have to retain the columns, then this won't be of any help but thought I'd offer it. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 4:20 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns Hi all, As some of you may know, if you download opinions from Westlaw in Word format, the text displays as two columns on the page. For reasons that are unavoidable, I sometimes need to work with these documents. I also need to cite to them as they are displayed, so converting is yet again not an option. Neitehr is going to Westlaw itself and reading the opinion directly or via another format. I can do that if all I need is the info; I can't if I need to cite it. When I try reading these documents with Jaws, it will just read straight down the column instead of going back up to the top of the page to read the other column. Does anyone know of a setting I can change so that Jaws will recognize and read these documents correctly? Thanks, Laura _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Red And White Distribution LLC v Osteroid Enterprises LLC.doc Type: application/msword Size: 76795 bytes Desc: Red And White Distribution LLC v Osteroid Enterprises LLC.doc URL: From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Fri Aug 16 17:42:14 2019 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 13:42:14 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns In-Reply-To: <16739cec94484e2da251737a5afb8212@holsteinlaw.com> References: <16739cec94484e2da251737a5afb8212@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: <055501d55459$f0ff66b0$d2fe3410$@gmail.com> You can also go to the end of the column and use control plus right arrow after the last word in the column to continue to the top of the next column. It's not great but I've made due with it. If there is a setting you can change in JAWS that would be great. I'll also try your recommendation Brian. Deepa Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian Unitt via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 1:40 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Brian Unitt Subject: Re: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns Hi Laura, I am not sure whether this is helpful for what you need to accomplish, but there is an option to download as a word document without the two-column format. I am attaching a sample case. When you press the download button and choose word format from the drop down box, you can tab to "layout options" and there is a checkbox for two column format that can be unchecked. Of course if you have to retain the columns, then this won't be of any help but thought I'd offer it. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 4:20 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns Hi all, As some of you may know, if you download opinions from Westlaw in Word format, the text displays as two columns on the page. For reasons that are unavoidable, I sometimes need to work with these documents. I also need to cite to them as they are displayed, so converting is yet again not an option. Neitehr is going to Westlaw itself and reading the opinion directly or via another format. I can do that if all I need is the info; I can't if I need to cite it. When I try reading these documents with Jaws, it will just read straight down the column instead of going back up to the top of the page to read the other column. Does anyone know of a setting I can change so that Jaws will recognize and read these documents correctly? Thanks, Laura _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinl aw.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Fri Aug 16 21:36:58 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 17:36:58 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns In-Reply-To: <055501d55459$f0ff66b0$d2fe3410$@gmail.com> References: <16739cec94484e2da251737a5afb8212@holsteinlaw.com> <055501d55459$f0ff66b0$d2fe3410$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <589EA232-A5F2-4543-B610-56110AC3DFC1@gmail.com> I think using Quick Keys might be the best option. I'm curious what procedure requires you to cite specifically the Word document form of a Westlaw opinion? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw wrote: > > You can also go to the end of the column and use control plus right arrow > after the last word in the column to continue to the top of the next column. > It's not great but I've made due with it. If there is a setting you can > change in JAWS that would be great. I'll also try your recommendation Brian. > > Deepa > > Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian Unitt > via BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 1:40 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Brian Unitt > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns > > Hi Laura, > > I am not sure whether this is helpful for what you need to accomplish, but > there is an option to download as a word document without the two-column > format. I am attaching a sample case. When you press the download button and > choose word format from the drop down box, you can tab to "layout options" > and there is a checkbox for two column format that can be unchecked. Of > course if you have to retain the columns, then this won't be of any help but > thought I'd offer it. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist, Appellate Law > The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization > > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via > BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 4:20 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns > > Hi all, > > As some of you may know, if you download opinions from Westlaw in Word > format, the text displays as two columns on the page. For reasons that are > unavoidable, I sometimes need to work with these documents. > I also need to cite to them as they are displayed, so converting is yet > again not an option. Neitehr is going to Westlaw itself and reading the > opinion directly or via another format. I can do that if all I need is the > info; I can't if I need to cite it. > > When I try reading these documents with Jaws, it will just read straight > down the column instead of going back up to the top of the page to read the > other column. Does anyone know of a setting I can change so that Jaws will > recognize and read these documents correctly? > > Thanks, > Laura > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinl > aw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Aug 16 22:22:03 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 18:22:03 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns In-Reply-To: <589EA232-A5F2-4543-B610-56110AC3DFC1@gmail.com> References: <16739cec94484e2da251737a5afb8212@holsteinlaw.com> <055501d55459$f0ff66b0$d2fe3410$@gmail.com> <589EA232-A5F2-4543-B610-56110AC3DFC1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5342FCD3-352E-4451-88A5-CE38C09DDFA2@gmail.com> Thanks, All. Deepa, I didn't know about that hotkey. I think that will be helpful. Thanks, Brian. I did know that you could change the download to 1 column, but I didn't for a long time so it should help others. For others who don't know, there are also options to download without the headnotes and synopsis and other extraneous things. Laura Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 16, 2019, at 5:36 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > I think using Quick Keys might be the best option. I'm curious what procedure requires you to cite specifically the Word document form of a Westlaw opinion? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> You can also go to the end of the column and use control plus right arrow >> after the last word in the column to continue to the top of the next column. >> It's not great but I've made due with it. If there is a setting you can >> change in JAWS that would be great. I'll also try your recommendation Brian. >> >> Deepa >> >> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian Unitt >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 1:40 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Brian Unitt >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns >> >> Hi Laura, >> >> I am not sure whether this is helpful for what you need to accomplish, but >> there is an option to download as a word document without the two-column >> format. I am attaching a sample case. When you press the download button and >> choose word format from the drop down box, you can tab to "layout options" >> and there is a checkbox for two column format that can be unchecked. Of >> course if you have to retain the columns, then this won't be of any help but >> thought I'd offer it. >> >> Brian >> Brian C. Unitt >> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >> >> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >> A Professional Corporation >> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >> Riverside, CA 92501 >> Tel: 951-682-7030 >> Fax: 951-684-8061 >> www.holsteinlaw.com >> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 4:20 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns >> >> Hi all, >> >> As some of you may know, if you download opinions from Westlaw in Word >> format, the text displays as two columns on the page. For reasons that are >> unavoidable, I sometimes need to work with these documents. >> I also need to cite to them as they are displayed, so converting is yet >> again not an option. Neitehr is going to Westlaw itself and reading the >> opinion directly or via another format. I can do that if all I need is the >> info; I can't if I need to cite it. >> >> When I try reading these documents with Jaws, it will just read straight >> down the column instead of going back up to the top of the page to read the >> other column. Does anyone know of a setting I can change so that Jaws will >> recognize and read these documents correctly? >> >> Thanks, >> Laura >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinl >> aw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Fri Aug 16 22:24:42 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 23:24:42 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns In-Reply-To: <589EA232-A5F2-4543-B610-56110AC3DFC1@gmail.com> References: <16739cec94484e2da251737a5afb8212@holsteinlaw.com> <055501d55459$f0ff66b0$d2fe3410$@gmail.com> <589EA232-A5F2-4543-B610-56110AC3DFC1@gmail.com> Message-ID: Brian's solution is the one I typically adopt in this situation - of unchecking the box asking me if I'd like a dual column display. Best, Rahul On 16/08/2019, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > I think using Quick Keys might be the best option. I'm curious what > procedure requires you to cite specifically the Word document form of a > Westlaw opinion? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Deepa Goraya via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> You can also go to the end of the column and use control plus right >> arrow >> after the last word in the column to continue to the top of the next >> column. >> It's not great but I've made due with it. If there is a setting you can >> change in JAWS that would be great. I'll also try your recommendation >> Brian. >> >> Deepa >> >> Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian >> Unitt >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 1:40 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Brian Unitt >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns >> >> Hi Laura, >> >> I am not sure whether this is helpful for what you need to accomplish, >> but >> there is an option to download as a word document without the two-column >> format. I am attaching a sample case. When you press the download button >> and >> choose word format from the drop down box, you can tab to "layout >> options" >> and there is a checkbox for two column format that can be unchecked. Of >> course if you have to retain the columns, then this won't be of any help >> but >> thought I'd offer it. >> >> Brian >> Brian C. Unitt >> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >> >> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >> A Professional Corporation >> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >> Riverside, CA 92501 >> Tel: 951-682-7030 >> Fax: 951-684-8061 >> www.holsteinlaw.com >> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 4:20 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns >> >> Hi all, >> >> As some of you may know, if you download opinions from Westlaw in Word >> format, the text displays as two columns on the page. For reasons that >> are >> unavoidable, I sometimes need to work with these documents. >> I also need to cite to them as they are displayed, so converting is yet >> again not an option. Neitehr is going to Westlaw itself and reading the >> opinion directly or via another format. I can do that if all I need is >> the >> info; I can't if I need to cite it. >> >> When I try reading these documents with Jaws, it will just read straight >> down the column instead of going back up to the top of the page to read >> the >> other column. Does anyone know of a setting I can change so that Jaws >> will >> recognize and read these documents correctly? >> >> Thanks, >> Laura >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinl >> aw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > -- -- Rahul Bajaj Candidate for the BCL Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford From paezja at mail.broward.edu Sat Aug 17 02:21:46 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 02:21:46 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? Message-ID: Hello everyone. So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the options for downloading documents. However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? How do you bring that option up? As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or Word Perfect. Any help would be gladly appreciated. Thanks, Jorge From sai at fiatfiendum.org Mon Aug 19 11:38:20 2019 From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 12:38:20 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's Robles' opposition brief: No pro-ADA amici filed yet. I'm not 100% sure whether amici for cert respondent are due the same time as the respondent, Rule 34(2)(a) / 37(2)(a), or 7 days after that, Rule 37(3)(a). Not exactly the clearest set of federal rules. Sincerely, Sai President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc. On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 9:08 AM Sai wrote: > > https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/dominos-pizza-llc-v-robles/ > > QP: Whether websites & apps have to be blind-accessible. CA9 below said yes. > > A bunch of amici have filed even on the cert petition. > > Seems likely to have widespread impacts, including on issues y'all litigate. Would suggest you get in on amici pro respondent if you can. > > Deadline August 14 — and August 4 to get parties' consent. Sup. Ct. R. 34(2)(a) > > Sincerely, > Sai > > Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and autocorrect errors. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Aug 19 16:54:30 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 16:54:30 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Alternative Dispute Resolution Coordinator King County Washington Message-ID: I thought someone on this list might find this opportunity of intrinterest. From: King County, WA [mailto:KingCounty at subscriptions.kingcounty.gov] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 8:47 AM Subject: Alternative Dispute Resolution Coordinator Alternative Dispute Resolution Coordinator 08/16/2019 08:23 AM PDT The Career and Culture Division within the Department of Human Resources (DHR) has an outstanding opportunity to join the Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) Program as an ADR Coordinator. The ADR Coordinator's key responsibilities will include client intake, coordinating and managing case flow, conducting evaluations, analyzing results and making recommendations, managing the practicum including mentoring mediation students. In addition, the ADR Coordinator is the primary point person for the Interlocal Conflict Resolution Group, a shared neutrals program which provides mediation services to public jurisdiction and labor unions throughout the Puget Sound region. The ADR Program services include mediating workplace disputes, facilitating collective bargaining and grievance discussions; chartering and facilitating labor-management committees and project labor agreements; training in negotiation mediation and conflict resolution; mediating and facilitating complex multi-jurisdictional and land use cases involving King County. The ADR Program is dedicated to creating new products that support the responsible stewardship of County resources by reducing the cost of conflict for King County government, the tax payers, and our regional partners. About King County As the only county in the United States named after Martin Luther King Jr, one of the most influential civil rights leaders in our nation's history, King County is a vibrant community with residents that represent countries from around the world. It is a region with increasing diversity that cherishes the artistic and social traditions of many cultures. Together, we're changing the way government delivers service and winning national recognition as a model of excellence. We continue to build on an enduring legacy of shared values of equity and social justice, employee engagement, innovative thinking and continuous improvement. With this commitment, King County has adopted a pro-equity agenda aimed at advancing regional change and is developing the systems and standards necessary to achieve better outcomes for all of our residents, regardless of their race or income. All of these qualities make this King County one of the nation's best places to live, work and play. Who May Apply This career service opportunity is open to the general public. All qualified candidates are welcome to apply. Work Schedule The typical workweek is 40 hours per week, Monday-Friday. This position is exempt from the provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act, and is ineligible for overtime pay. Forms and Materials Required (1) An online employment application, completed at www.kingcounty.gov/jobs, with employment history going back at least ten years if you have ten years of employment (or more to include all relevant experience), and (2) a cover letter (no more than two pages) summarizing how you meet the listed experience, qualifications, knowledge and skills for the job. For more information regarding this recruitment, please contact: Elisha Mackey Senior Recruiter 206-477-0193 Elisha.Mackey at kingcounty.gov [Image removed by sender.] Unsubscribe | Preferences | Contact Us Privacy Policy | Help Having trouble viewing this email? View it as a Web page. . [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 384 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Aug 19 16:56:05 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 16:56:05 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Washington Attorney General's Office - Attorney Opportunities Message-ID: From: Linda Nakamura Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 12:14 PM To: Diversity Stakeholders Subject: [diversity-stakeholders] WA AGO - Attorney Opportunities At the Washington State Attorney General’s Office, we aspire to be the best public law office in the nation. We are committed to providing excellent, independent, and ethical legal services to the State of Washington and to protecting the rights of its people. It is essential to our mission to create and maintain an office that is diverse, respectful, inclusive and composed of the best legal talent available. If you share our vision and have a desire to do important work that makes a difference for our community, then we invite you to consider applying for the following attorney opportunities. Click on the link below to access full position descriptions and qualifications for each of these ATTORNEY opportunities. You can also visit the state's centralized recruitment site at www.careers.wa.gov. For information about the AGO, visit www.atg.wa.gov. Spokane's Medicaid Fraud Control - The Medicaid Fraud Control Division (MFCD) seeks an AAG to investigate, prosecute and litigate Medicaid provider fraud as well as abuse and neglect of persons in residential facilities using a full array of civil and criminal remedies. (DL: 8/18/19) Closes tomorrow! Public Counsel - The Public Counsel Unit has an outstanding opportunity for a highly motivated attorney to join its collegial and collaborative unit within the AGO's Consumer Protection Division. (DL: 8/25/19) University of Washington - The University of Washington Division seeks an experienced attorney and an outstanding leader for the position of Managing Assistant Attorney General to serve as Team Leader for the Division's Healthcare Team. (DL: 8/29/19) Social and Health Services - The Office's Mental Health Section of the Social and Health Division has an opening to work with the Special Commitment Center (SCC) and Western State Hospital (WSH) Teams. (DL: 9/2/19) Regional Services - The Office is looking for an attorney to serve in its Regional Services Division in Kennewick, WA. This attorney will work in a high volume litigation practice entailing frequent state court docket and trial appearances. (DL: 9/4/19) Torts - The Washington State Attorney General's Office's Torts Division in Tumwater/Olympia has an outstanding opportunity for an experienced attorney to join the Division as the Team Leader of its Team 2 trial litigation team. (DL: 9/5/19) Deputy Solicitor General - The Solicitor General's Division has an opening for a Deputy Solicitor General. The Division is the division within the responsible for United States Supreme Court practice, appellate assistance programs, coordinating amicus briefs, preparing Attorney General Opinions, writing ballot measure materials, coordinating statewide legal issues, coordinating certain litigation involving the federal government, and at times directly representing the state in significant matters. (DL: 9/8/19) Education - The Education Division has an opening for an experienced attorney interested in serving the State's education agencies. (DL: 9/12/19) Please consider joining our e-mail subscription service to be informed of our attorney postings. Honoring diversity, equity and inclusion means that as an agency, and as individuals, we are committed to ensuring that all employees and volunteers enjoy a respectful, safe and supportive working environment. Only by fostering the inclusion of people from all backgrounds, cultures and attributes, can AGO employees and volunteers achieve their fullest potential and best advance the goals and mission of the AGO. The AGO is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, marital status, sexual orientation/gender identity, age, disability, honorably discharged veteran or military status, retaliation or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability. Persons requiring reasonable accommodation in the application process or requiring information in an alternative format may contact Tracy Robinson at 360-586-7693. Those with a hearing impairment in need of accommodation are encouraged to contact the Washington Relay Service at 1-800-676-3777 or www.washingtonrelay.com --- You are currently subscribed to diversity-stakeholders as: noel.nightingale at ed.gov. To unsubscribe click here: http://list.wsba.org/u?id=9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389&n=T&l=diversity-stakeholders&o=1109807 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-1109807-9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389 at list.wsba.org If you have any questions, or wish to change your email address, please contact the WSBA List Administrator. From sanho817 at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 18:32:53 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 13:32:53 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court Message-ID: Hello, I'm ineligible for a probono opportunity which came available because the court requires the petitions to be hand-written. How do you folks file paperwork which is traditionally done by hand? Is there some kind of accommodation for electronic documents? Warmth, Sanho From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Aug 20 18:49:01 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:49:01 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Once you're in practice, very few documents have to be handwritten. And if they do, a legal assistant can handle that. Does the court in your jurisdiction have any sort of accessibility initiatives??? Perhaps your law school has a connection to judges, so this issue can be brought to their attention. On 8/20/2019 2:32 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > Hello, > > I'm ineligible for a probono opportunity which came available because > the court requires the petitions to be hand-written. How do you folks > file paperwork which is traditionally done by hand? Is there some kind > of accommodation for electronic documents? > > Warmth, > Sanho > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From NSingh at cov.com Tue Aug 20 19:04:43 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 19:04:43 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What court is this? I have never heard of a handwritten requirement. At most, it is an option for pro se litigants. You may want to call the clerk's office and inquire about this rule and whether there is scope for you to submit a motion requesting that the petition filing on behalf of your prospective client be completed electronically. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 2:33 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court Hello, I'm ineligible for a probono opportunity which came available because the court requires the petitions to be hand-written. How do you folks file paperwork which is traditionally done by hand? Is there some kind of accommodation for electronic documents? Warmth, Sanho _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Tue Aug 20 20:04:42 2019 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:04:42 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01c801d55792$81b78f30$8526ad90$@com> That's interesting! I wonder what effect that would have on the presiding judge(s) decision(s) 'cause a petition is handwritten! Wouldn't that which is typewritten be much easier to read? Or, does the court render an opinion based on how cursive an individual's hand writing is? I do agree that the clerk be contacted for further explanations and that's assuming there's a clerk where you practice! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From sanho817 at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 20:59:47 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 15:59:47 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court In-Reply-To: <01c801d55792$81b78f30$8526ad90$@com> References: <01c801d55792$81b78f30$8526ad90$@com> Message-ID: All, There are some fascinating studies about judges and prejudices against handwriting and written grammar. Suffice it to say that it's exactly as real as you'd think. I checked in with the dean. We'll see what comes of it. On 8/20/19, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw wrote: > That's interesting! I wonder what effect that would have on the presiding > judge(s) decision(s) 'cause a petition is handwritten! Wouldn't that which > is typewritten be much easier to read? Or, does the court render an > opinion > based on how cursive an individual's hand writing is? > > I do agree that the clerk be contacted for further explanations and that's > assuming there's a clerk where you practice! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 21:07:01 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:07:01 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court In-Reply-To: References: <01c801d55792$81b78f30$8526ad90$@com> Message-ID: <113D364D-BFA4-4947-9251-76D04C48EE48@gmail.com> Please satisfy our collective curiosity and let us know which court this is. Also make sure you check the judge's specific rules in case he has displaced that one. . I've never heard of such a thing. And I thought rules about acceptable binding forms were ridiculous... Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 20, 2019, at 4:59 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > > All, > > There are some fascinating studies about judges and prejudices against > handwriting and written grammar. Suffice it to say that it's exactly > as real as you'd think. > > I checked in with the dean. We'll see what comes of it. > > On 8/20/19, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw > wrote: >> That's interesting! I wonder what effect that would have on the presiding >> judge(s) decision(s) 'cause a petition is handwritten! Wouldn't that which >> is typewritten be much easier to read? Or, does the court render an >> opinion >> based on how cursive an individual's hand writing is? >> >> I do agree that the clerk be contacted for further explanations and that's >> assuming there's a clerk where you practice! >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From jeffjayjohnston at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 21:24:27 2019 From: jeffjayjohnston at gmail.com (jeffjayjohnston at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:24:27 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> Hello Jorge, RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. Word will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take up less hard drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in which case RTFs seem to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has a page describing this format. Best, Jay Johnston -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Jorge Paez Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? Hello everyone. So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the options for downloading documents. However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? How do you bring that option up? As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or Word Perfect. Any help would be gladly appreciated. Thanks, Jorge _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jeffjayjohnston%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 04:02:26 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 00:02:26 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a student. (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues I had as a student? I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with this request. Aimee Sent from my iPhone From jtfetter at yahoo.com Wed Aug 21 12:51:49 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 08:51:49 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42413c02-2066-6aea-b8c5-cf0a03b3be5f@yahoo.com> Amy, Under the ADA, you should have equal access to the law library as other members of the public. I doubt you could just show up and expect to have a computer with Jaws installed, but if you ask for the accommodation ahead of time, I can't think of a reason for them to refuse it. If cost were an issue for them, would you be willing to suggest, and work with, NVDA? I don't know off the top of my head/without doing research whether your complaint could relate back to discrimination you faced as a student. Depending on your state's SoL and when they last discriminated against you, you may be barred from bringing these complaints in court, unless there was additional discrimination. If you want to start with an OCR complaint--are you referring to DOJ OCR?--then you may as well include the past discrimination. However, I wouldn't hold my breath on getting a response from them these days. In other words, if you're serious about this, you may want to start looking for private counsel, as soon as you are discriminated against. On 8/21/2019 12:02 AM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. > > I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. > > I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a student. > > (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. > > (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. > > (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues I had as a student? > > I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with this request. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 14:19:13 2019 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody Davis) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 10:19:13 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Opinions on requesting accommodation in application process Message-ID: <4AB03872-8D57-4BA1-9F22-16C4B5B22030@gmail.com> All, I have been on a couple interviews for a paralegal position in the local U.S. Attorney’s office, and I am unsure whether I should ask for accommodations for a particular part of the application process. Candidates who make it to the final round for this position will be asked to complete a research assignment. The assignment will be timed from the moment it is emailed to the applicant until the moment when it is returned by email to the office. It is intended to be a research and drafting project that can be completed in one sitting. I don’t know much about what the project will be other than it will be a problem similar to a problem I addressed in the writing sample I provided them, which was a trial brief responding to a pretrial motion to exclude evidence. The assignment will be evaluated anonymously by 3 attorneys in the office. The one the attorney’s like best determines who gets the job. I am unsure if I should ask that my blindness be considered in evaluating how long it takes me to complete the project or in evaluating formatting certain aspects of the assignment, like case captions, that might be involved. It’s an od situation since there is no hard time limit and because it is anonymously evaluated. Any thoughts? I’m wondering if any request for accommodations with this assignment will be detrimental to my chances of getting the job as it may give them reason to be concerned about my abilities to get work done in a timely manner. On a related note, I have already been assured that the materials for the assignment will be accessible, and I have no issue asking for that type of accommodation should they turn out not to be accessible. Respectfully, Cody From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 14:26:08 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 10:26:08 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the option would be missing from your site. On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw wrote: > Hello Jorge, > > RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. Word > will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take up less hard > drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in which case RTFs seem > to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has a page describing this > format. > > Best, > Jay Johnston > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via > BlindLaw > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Jorge Paez > Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? > > Hello everyone. > So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the options > for downloading documents. > However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? > How do you bring that option up? > As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or Word > Perfect. > > Any help would be gladly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jeffjayjohnston%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 21 14:27:57 2019 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 09:27:57 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> Aimee: The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. Daniel McBride Fort Worth -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM To: BlindLaw Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public Hi Everyone, I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a student. (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues I had as a student? I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with this request. Aimee Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 14:28:44 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 10:28:44 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court In-Reply-To: <113D364D-BFA4-4947-9251-76D04C48EE48@gmail.com> References: <01c801d55792$81b78f30$8526ad90$@com> <113D364D-BFA4-4947-9251-76D04C48EE48@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have never heard of this. We have to print out our documents and sign them, and they are subsequently physically filed and scanned in--unfortunately our court does not let us use digital signatures. However, getting a secretary to help me sign documents has never been a problem. It's not an efficient system, but it is workable. I don't see this as a good reason for you not to participate in a program. On 8/20/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > Please satisfy our collective curiosity and let us know which court this is. > Also make sure you check the judge's specific rules in case he has > displaced that one. . I've never heard of such a thing. And I thought rules > about acceptable binding forms were ridiculous... > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 20, 2019, at 4:59 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> All, >> >> There are some fascinating studies about judges and prejudices against >> handwriting and written grammar. Suffice it to say that it's exactly >> as real as you'd think. >> >> I checked in with the dean. We'll see what comes of it. >> >> On 8/20/19, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>> That's interesting! I wonder what effect that would have on the >>> presiding >>> judge(s) decision(s) 'cause a petition is handwritten! Wouldn't that >>> which >>> is typewritten be much easier to read? Or, does the court render an >>> opinion >>> based on how cursive an individual's hand writing is? >>> >>> I do agree that the clerk be contacted for further explanations and >>> that's >>> assuming there's a clerk where you practice! >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From sanho817 at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 14:33:28 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 09:33:28 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court In-Reply-To: References: <01c801d55792$81b78f30$8526ad90$@com> <113D364D-BFA4-4947-9251-76D04C48EE48@gmail.com> Message-ID: All, It's being investigated by the dean. She seemed appropriately mystified as to why the fact that most people handwrite these petitions means that I would have to handwrite them, so she's having a conversation with the person who told me as much and has directed me to contact the probono coordinator. Warmth, Sanho On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > I have never heard of this. We have to print out our documents and > sign them, and they are subsequently physically filed and scanned > in--unfortunately our court does not let us use digital signatures. > However, getting a secretary to help me sign documents has never been > a problem. It's not an efficient system, but it is workable. I don't > see this as a good reason for you not to participate in a program. > > > > On 8/20/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> Please satisfy our collective curiosity and let us know which court this >> is. >> Also make sure you check the judge's specific rules in case he has >> displaced that one. . I've never heard of such a thing. And I thought >> rules >> about acceptable binding forms were ridiculous... >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 4:59 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> There are some fascinating studies about judges and prejudices against >>> handwriting and written grammar. Suffice it to say that it's exactly >>> as real as you'd think. >>> >>> I checked in with the dean. We'll see what comes of it. >>> >>> On 8/20/19, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>>> That's interesting! I wonder what effect that would have on the >>>> presiding >>>> judge(s) decision(s) 'cause a petition is handwritten! Wouldn't that >>>> which >>>> is typewritten be much easier to read? Or, does the court render an >>>> opinion >>>> based on how cursive an individual's hand writing is? >>>> >>>> I do agree that the clerk be contacted for further explanations and >>>> that's >>>> assuming there's a clerk where you practice! >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Olusegun >>>> Denver, Colorado >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com > From jtfetter at yahoo.com Wed Aug 21 15:03:01 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 11:03:01 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Opinions on requesting accommodation in application process In-Reply-To: <4AB03872-8D57-4BA1-9F22-16C4B5B22030@gmail.com> References: <4AB03872-8D57-4BA1-9F22-16C4B5B22030@gmail.com> Message-ID: Cody, If there's any possible way to avoid asking for accommodations for the sample, I would advise doing so. Re: formatting, perhaps you can ask for a template and then ensure that your formatting matches theirs. If you feel strongly that you would need help with formatting if hired, then you may want to discuss accommodations related to formatting for the sample assignment to avoid being eliminated because of a purely cosmetic defect with your work product. Re: timeliness, asking for more time at this stage would be a huge red flag and would be likely to eliminate you from consideration in all but the most enlightened places. Good luck with the application! On 8/21/2019 10:19 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: > All, > > I have been on a couple interviews for a paralegal position in the local U.S. Attorney???s office, and I am unsure whether I should ask for accommodations for a particular part of the application process. > > Candidates who make it to the final round for this position will be asked to complete a research assignment. The assignment will be timed from the moment it is emailed to the applicant until the moment when it is returned by email to the office. It is intended to be a research and drafting project that can be completed in one sitting. I don???t know much about what the project will be other than it will be a problem similar to a problem I addressed in the writing sample I provided them, which was a trial brief responding to a pretrial motion to exclude evidence. The assignment will be evaluated anonymously by 3 attorneys in the office. The one the attorney???s like best determines who gets the job. > > I am unsure if I should ask that my blindness be considered in evaluating how long it takes me to complete the project or in evaluating formatting certain aspects of the assignment, like case captions, that might be involved. > > It???s an od situation since there is no hard time limit and because it is anonymously evaluated. > > Any thoughts? I???m wondering if any request for accommodations with this assignment will be detrimental to my chances of getting the job as it may give them reason to be concerned about my abilities to get work done in a timely manner. > > On a related note, I have already been assured that the materials for the assignment will be accessible, and I have no issue asking for that type of accommodation should they turn out not to be accessible. > > Respectfully, > Cody > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 16:33:35 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 12:33:35 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court In-Reply-To: References: <01c801d55792$81b78f30$8526ad90$@com> <113D364D-BFA4-4947-9251-76D04C48EE48@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sanho, FWIW I really do recommend that you take this into your own hands. A simple call to the clerks office will get you the yes/no you need immediately, and if the answer really is no, you can taked next steps now rather than needing to wait for the pro bono coordinator to decide or whatever bureaucratic steps are "supposed" to take place. You will unfortunately need to take on a lot of this stuff yourself in practice, so you may as well start now. Laura On 8/21/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw wrote: > All, > > It's being investigated by the dean. She seemed appropriately > mystified as to why the fact that most people handwrite these > petitions means that I would have to handwrite them, so she's having a > conversation with the person who told me as much and has directed me > to contact the probono coordinator. > > Warmth, > Sanho > > On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> I have never heard of this. We have to print out our documents and >> sign them, and they are subsequently physically filed and scanned >> in--unfortunately our court does not let us use digital signatures. >> However, getting a secretary to help me sign documents has never been >> a problem. It's not an efficient system, but it is workable. I don't >> see this as a good reason for you not to participate in a program. >> >> >> >> On 8/20/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Please satisfy our collective curiosity and let us know which court this >>> is. >>> Also make sure you check the judge's specific rules in case he has >>> displaced that one. . I've never heard of such a thing. And I thought >>> rules >>> about acceptable binding forms were ridiculous... >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 4:59 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> All, >>>> >>>> There are some fascinating studies about judges and prejudices against >>>> handwriting and written grammar. Suffice it to say that it's exactly >>>> as real as you'd think. >>>> >>>> I checked in with the dean. We'll see what comes of it. >>>> >>>> On 8/20/19, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>>> That's interesting! I wonder what effect that would have on the >>>>> presiding >>>>> judge(s) decision(s) 'cause a petition is handwritten! Wouldn't that >>>>> which >>>>> is typewritten be much easier to read? Or, does the court render an >>>>> opinion >>>>> based on how cursive an individual's hand writing is? >>>>> >>>>> I do agree that the clerk be contacted for further explanations and >>>>> that's >>>>> assuming there's a clerk where you practice! >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Olusegun >>>>> Denver, Colorado >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 16:49:23 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 12:49:23 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? Laura On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the option > would be missing from your site. > > On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hello Jorge, >> >> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. Word >> will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take up less hard >> drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in which case RTFs >> seem >> to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has a page describing this >> format. >> >> Best, >> Jay Johnston >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Jorge Paez >> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >> >> Hello everyone. >> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >> options >> for downloading documents. >> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >> How do you bring that option up? >> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or Word >> Perfect. >> >> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jeffjayjohnston%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From NSingh at cov.com Wed Aug 21 17:04:47 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:04:47 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f23e92c8cbf4d90bef0fe8a6b6f0b90@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> IE was fine yesterday, and I am on Chrome now. I was able to locate both the email and the download menus on Chrome. I selected download, which presented me a combo box that allows me to select the format: Word, RTF, PDF, and Word Perfect. I opted for Word and then pressed enter on the download button to find the case sitting in my Downloads folder. I did not immediately see any option to change from columnar format to straight body text nor the option to omit the full panoply of frontal matter, but then again, I was not looking for those. Hope this helps? -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 12:49 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? Laura On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the option > would be missing from your site. > > On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hello Jorge, >> >> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. >> Word will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take up >> less hard drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in >> which case RTFs seem to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has a >> page describing this format. >> >> Best, >> Jay Johnston >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Jorge Paez >> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >> >> Hello everyone. >> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >> options for downloading documents. >> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >> How do you bring that option up? >> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or Word >> Perfect. >> >> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jeffjayjohnston >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40 >> gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com Wed Aug 21 17:20:01 2019 From: BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com (Brian Unitt) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:20:01 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1b2def56cada4dab98f26802e2f6855c@holsteinlaw.com> It is working fine in Chrome. I use text.westlaw.com. It is a button called "download," so you can use the quick key "B" to navigate to it, press enter and then choose your format from the listbox. There are actually two ways to choose download formats. The button after "download" is "delivery." That one lets you choose whether to e-mail, print or download, and then choose the format etc. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist in Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 9:49 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? Laura On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the option > would be missing from your site. > > On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw wrote: >> Hello Jorge, >> >> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. >> Word will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take up >> less hard drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in >> which case RTFs seem to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has a >> page describing this format. >> >> Best, >> Jay Johnston >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Jorge Paez >> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >> >> Hello everyone. >> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >> options for downloading documents. >> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >> How do you bring that option up? >> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or Word >> Perfect. >> >> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jeffjayjohnston >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40 >> gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com From howardadelsberg at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 17:26:06 2019 From: howardadelsberg at gmail.com (Howard Adelsberg) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 13:26:06 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Off topic: Running out doors Message-ID: I know this is an unusual question for this list serve, but does anyone on the list, run out doors? If so, I would like to talk with them off list. Thanks, Howard M. Adelsberg [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 08/21/19, 01:23:53 PM From sbg at sbgaal.com Wed Aug 21 17:27:17 2019 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 12:27:17 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Westlaw searching Message-ID: <00d501d55845$aed04490$0c70cdb0$@sbgaal.com> I lost my sight quite a few years ago and since then I have been using Westlaw some but relying on law clerks quite a bit which I would rather not do. When I was sighted, it was much faster to do research. I was able to go straight to the relevant portions of cases and statutes as well as doing boolian type searches effectively. Can someone point to a resource and/or provide tips for making my research quicker and more productive and effective? Thanks! Sincerely, Shannon Brady Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, Texas 79401 Office: (806) 763-3999 Mobile: (806) 781-9296 Fax: (806) 749-3752 E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. From paezja at mail.broward.edu Wed Aug 21 17:31:15 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:31:15 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Westlaw searching In-Reply-To: <00d501d55845$aed04490$0c70cdb0$@sbgaal.com> References: <00d501d55845$aed04490$0c70cdb0$@sbgaal.com> Message-ID: <85E8E294-EA43-4C78-B0B3-7291A125F095@mail.broward.edu> Call the reference desk, and let them know what screen reader you’re using, they can give you a really good training on how to do things quickly specific to your system. I just did one last week. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 1:29 PM, Shannon via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > I lost my sight quite a few years ago and since then I have been using > Westlaw some but relying on law clerks quite a bit which I would rather not > do. When I was sighted, it was much faster to do research. I was able to > go straight to the relevant portions of cases and statutes as well as doing > boolian type searches effectively. Can someone point to a resource and/or > provide tips for making my research quicker and more productive and > effective? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Shannon Brady Geihsler > > > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > > Lubbock, Texas 79401 > > Office: (806) 763-3999 > > Mobile: (806) 781-9296 > > Fax: (806) 749-3752 > > E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2e05fb042efc4e54be3e08d7265d0d2b%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020053403144998&sdata=9edaDP6BrL%2FX%2B6Qf3pMhMOlgIT2QOYkgQRlL%2B2EVIWA%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2e05fb042efc4e54be3e08d7265d0d2b%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020053403154994&sdata=RaXjtn6v2ri2AuHWEv6l6eHx0P4plAZzl4OTXECAs58%3D&reserved=0= From NSingh at cov.com Wed Aug 21 17:34:26 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:34:26 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Westlaw searching In-Reply-To: <00d501d55845$aed04490$0c70cdb0$@sbgaal.com> References: <00d501d55845$aed04490$0c70cdb0$@sbgaal.com> Message-ID: You may also consider learning how to conduct advanced searches using Westlaw's syntax to refine your result set. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 1:27 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Shannon Subject: [blindLaw] Westlaw searching I lost my sight quite a few years ago and since then I have been using Westlaw some but relying on law clerks quite a bit which I would rather not do. When I was sighted, it was much faster to do research. I was able to go straight to the relevant portions of cases and statutes as well as doing boolian type searches effectively. Can someone point to a resource and/or provide tips for making my research quicker and more productive and effective? Thanks! Sincerely, Shannon Brady Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, Texas 79401 Office: (806) 763-3999 Mobile: (806) 781-9296 Fax: (806) 749-3752 E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From shannonldillon at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 17:34:29 2019 From: shannonldillon at gmail.com (Shannon Dillon) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 10:34:29 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Off topic: Running out doors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <326F9BDB-AC60-4AE8-B4F0-8C3AE891F801@gmail.com> I do. You cannn contact me at shannonldillon at gmail.com or 4152185862. After 5 is best. Thanks. Shannon Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw wrote: > > I know this is an unusual question for this list serve, but does anyone on > the list, run out doors? If so, I would like to talk with them off list. > Thanks, > > Howard M. Adelsberg > > [image: Mailtrack] > > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > > 08/21/19, > 01:23:53 PM > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Wed Aug 21 17:34:44 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:34:44 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> , Message-ID: <407259AB-B0B3-436C-AD7D-34F70955A4E6@mail.broward.edu> I haven’t done this in Chrome or ie, and I don’t know if the browser affects the way it works, but accounts usually default to email, look for an email button, and there is a delivery preference menu right underneath it where you can change that. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to > give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" > link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? > > Laura > >> On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the option >> would be missing from your site. >> >>> On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Hello Jorge, >>> >>> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. Word >>> will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take up less hard >>> drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in which case RTFs >>> seem >>> to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has a page describing this >>> format. >>> >>> Best, >>> Jay Johnston >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via >>> BlindLaw >>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Jorge Paez >>> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >>> >>> Hello everyone. >>> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >>> options >>> for downloading documents. >>> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >>> How do you bring that option up? >>> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or Word >>> Perfect. >>> >>> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fjeffjayjohnston%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=qEnD9353odLWyNxE7JNaqwRYVGx15jUWm3GC0In7NsE%3D&reserved=0= >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fkelbycarlson%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=Sjm6cJPySrPTLvA9V2K1GKT8M7KAs%2FIzpE%2FDYlZS3dE%3D&reserved=0= >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787938436&sdata=FdYw7QNQed%2FLOzdL%2F3bVQDbFMnB4nsv87HOffVV9rgU%3D&reserved=0= >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787938436&sdata=E0Z%2F0CpG48piZyOl5whUT3AbNHlQgNY0Y4W%2F1VIK1%2Bo%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787938436&sdata=E%2BtlL%2BdAM5cS7oI5XQtT%2FPyoXLrN%2FiY4RVzLuniNrho%3D&reserved=0= From NSingh at cov.com Wed Aug 21 17:41:36 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:41:36 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: <407259AB-B0B3-436C-AD7D-34F70955A4E6@mail.broward.edu> References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> , <407259AB-B0B3-436C-AD7D-34F70955A4E6@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: Browser does matter to an extent. For the best experience, Westlaw recommends using IE or Chrome with JAWS. I understand that there is a population that uses Voice Over on an iPad, but please know that Westlaw's internal development team conducts most of its accessibility testing on an IE-JAWS configuration. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 1:35 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Jorge Paez Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? I haven’t done this in Chrome or ie, and I don’t know if the browser affects the way it works, but accounts usually default to email, look for an email button, and there is a delivery preference menu right underneath it where you can change that. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to > give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" > link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? > > Laura > >> On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the >> option would be missing from your site. >> >>> On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Hello Jorge, >>> >>> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. >>> Word will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take >>> up less hard drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in >>> which case RTFs seem to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has >>> a page describing this format. >>> >>> Best, >>> Jay Johnston >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Jorge Paez >>> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >>> >>> Hello everyone. >>> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >>> options for downloading documents. >>> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >>> How do you bring that option up? >>> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or >>> Word Perfect. >>> >>> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fjeffjayjohnston% >>> 2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f >>> 7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0 >>> %7C637020030787928439&sdata=qEnD9353odLWyNxE7JNaqwRYVGx15jUWm3GC >>> 0In7NsE%3D&reserved=0= >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fkelbycarlson%254 >>> 0gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f744 >>> 8e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C >>> 637020030787928439&sdata=Sjm6cJPySrPTLvA9V2K1GKT8M7KAs%2FIzpE%2F >>> DYlZS3dE%3D&reserved=0= >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >> et.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C >> paezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6 >> 2933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=GcS >> aduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >> et.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gma >> il.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020 >> 030787938436&sdata=FdYw7QNQed%2FLOzdL%2F3bVQDbFMnB4nsv87HOffVV9rg >> U%3D&reserved=0= >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne > t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa > ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6293 > 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787938436&sdata=E0Z%2F0 > CpG48piZyOl5whUT3AbNHlQgNY0Y4W%2F1VIK1%2Bo%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne > t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.brow > ard.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 > 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370200 > 30787938436&sdata=E%2BtlL%2BdAM5cS7oI5XQtT%2FPyoXLrN%2FiY4RVzLuniN > rho%3D&reserved=0= _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Wed Aug 21 17:59:27 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:59:27 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] WestLaw with VoiceOver In-Reply-To: References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> <407259AB-B0B3-436C-AD7D-34F70955A4E6@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: Just as an FYI, WestLaw has an IOS app for iPad/iPhone users which is completely accessible. Jorge > On Aug 21, 2019, at 1:41 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > Browser does matter to an extent. For the best experience, Westlaw recommends using IE or Chrome with JAWS. I understand that there is a population that uses Voice Over on an iPad, but please know that Westlaw's internal development team conducts most of its accessibility testing on an IE-JAWS configuration. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 1:35 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Jorge Paez > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? > > I haven’t done this in Chrome or ie, and I don’t know if the browser affects the way it works, but accounts usually default to email, look for an email button, and there is a delivery preference menu right underneath it where you can change that. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 21, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to >> give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" >> link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? >> >> Laura >> >>> On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the >>> option would be missing from your site. >>> >>>> On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Hello Jorge, >>>> >>>> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. >>>> Word will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take >>>> up less hard drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in >>>> which case RTFs seem to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has >>>> a page describing this format. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Jay Johnston >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Jorge Paez >>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >>>> >>>> Hello everyone. >>>> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >>>> options for downloading documents. >>>> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >>>> How do you bring that option up? >>>> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or >>>> Word Perfect. >>>> >>>> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799022745&sdata=IRQaNrCpUGg%2BpbWz%2FZdNMjKMdryZWj9PBtyulJ71%2FL8%3D&reserved=0= >>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=kqRyrpt7QVII6MIM0PyRzLJWqgk8C%2BokdA1x9Q0zuek%3D&reserved=0= >>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fjeffjayjohnston% >>>> 2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f >>>> 7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0 >>>> %7C637020030787928439&sdata=qEnD9353odLWyNxE7JNaqwRYVGx15jUWm3GC >>>> 0In7NsE%3D&reserved=0= >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=kqRyrpt7QVII6MIM0PyRzLJWqgk8C%2BokdA1x9Q0zuek%3D&reserved=0= >>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=kqRyrpt7QVII6MIM0PyRzLJWqgk8C%2BokdA1x9Q0zuek%3D&reserved=0= >>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fkelbycarlson%254 >>>> 0gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f744 >>>> 8e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C >>>> 637020030787928439&sdata=Sjm6cJPySrPTLvA9V2K1GKT8M7KAs%2FIzpE%2F >>>> DYlZS3dE%3D&reserved=0= >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=b31fwjcYe9ADoE0zjILDQWQaljyNWqjIxuKKtgLz8Ww%3D&reserved=0= >>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C >>> paezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6 >>> 2933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=GcS >>> aduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=b31fwjcYe9ADoE0zjILDQWQaljyNWqjIxuKKtgLz8Ww%3D&reserved=0= >>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gma >>> il.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >>> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020 >>> 030787938436&sdata=FdYw7QNQed%2FLOzdL%2F3bVQDbFMnB4nsv87HOffVV9rg >>> U%3D&reserved=0= >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=BwJm2EKHc50z8xcm7OGKBdg6RFqWja%2FT%2BWaTymbxRc8%3D&reserved=0= >> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa >> ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6293 >> 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787938436&sdata=E0Z%2F0 >> CpG48piZyOl5whUT3AbNHlQgNY0Y4W%2F1VIK1%2Bo%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=BwJm2EKHc50z8xcm7OGKBdg6RFqWja%2FT%2BWaTymbxRc8%3D&reserved=0= >> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.brow >> ard.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370200 >> 30787938436&sdata=E%2BtlL%2BdAM5cS7oI5XQtT%2FPyoXLrN%2FiY4RVzLuniN >> rho%3D&reserved=0= > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=lc4YiCDKRFtMZ27IPGAEjWjmslinS2p2%2BYDH3iVbocI%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fnsingh%2540cov.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=D%2BaHg6ZM00ABEPfqQRwmvMT1rCpWBuXP%2B%2B1A2msNpXE%3D&reserved=0= > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=lc4YiCDKRFtMZ27IPGAEjWjmslinS2p2%2BYDH3iVbocI%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C4aeb569fe0194aaccf2308d7265f0188%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020061799032749&sdata=CZDQGNEJGbKsrVnmEEJg7POYPWeod16FHqt6hmEwwgc%3D&reserved=0= From laura.wolk at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 18:10:10 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:10:10 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> <407259AB-B0B3-436C-AD7D-34F70955A4E6@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, everyone! Now I hopefully, can answer Jorge's question. My combo box defaulted to RTF, which was the second option. Microsoft Word was right above it. Laura On 8/21/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > Browser does matter to an extent. For the best experience, Westlaw > recommends using IE or Chrome with JAWS. I understand that there is a > population that uses Voice Over on an iPad, but please know that Westlaw's > internal development team conducts most of its accessibility testing on an > IE-JAWS configuration. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via > BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 1:35 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Jorge Paez > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? > > I haven’t done this in Chrome or ie, and I don’t know if the browser > affects the way it works, but accounts usually default to email, look for an > email button, and there is a delivery preference menu right underneath it > where you can change that. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 21, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT >> click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and >> you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to >> give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" >> link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? >> >> Laura >> >>> On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the >>> option would be missing from your site. >>> >>>> On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> Hello Jorge, >>>> >>>> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. >>>> Word will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take >>>> up less hard drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in >>>> which case RTFs seem to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has >>>> a page describing this format. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Jay Johnston >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Jorge Paez >>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >>>> >>>> Hello everyone. >>>> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >>>> options for downloading documents. >>>> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >>>> How do you bring that option up? >>>> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or >>>> Word Perfect. >>>> >>>> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fjeffjayjohnston% >>>> 2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f >>>> 7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0 >>>> %7C637020030787928439&sdata=qEnD9353odLWyNxE7JNaqwRYVGx15jUWm3GC >>>> 0In7NsE%3D&reserved=0= >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fkelbycarlson%254 >>>> 0gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f744 >>>> 8e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C >>>> 637020030787928439&sdata=Sjm6cJPySrPTLvA9V2K1GKT8M7KAs%2FIzpE%2F >>>> DYlZS3dE%3D&reserved=0= >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C >>> paezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6 >>> 2933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=GcS >>> aduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gma >>> il.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >>> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020 >>> 030787938436&sdata=FdYw7QNQed%2FLOzdL%2F3bVQDbFMnB4nsv87HOffVV9rg >>> U%3D&reserved=0= >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa >> ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6293 >> 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787938436&sdata=E0Z%2F0 >> CpG48piZyOl5whUT3AbNHlQgNY0Y4W%2F1VIK1%2Bo%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.brow >> ard.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370200 >> 30787938436&sdata=E%2BtlL%2BdAM5cS7oI5XQtT%2FPyoXLrN%2FiY4RVzLuniN >> rho%3D&reserved=0= > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 18:13:04 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:13:04 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> <407259AB-B0B3-436C-AD7D-34F70955A4E6@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: Also, Nandini, in case you are looking for it, when you are on the screen that allows you to choose a file type, above it is a link called layout options. That allows you to change the columns, nix the headnotes, and make sure no highlighting comes along with your case based on your search terms. Laura On 8/21/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Thanks, everyone! Now I hopefully, can answer Jorge's question. My > combo box defaulted to RTF, which was the second option. Microsoft > Word was right above it. > > Laura > > On 8/21/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >> Browser does matter to an extent. For the best experience, Westlaw >> recommends using IE or Chrome with JAWS. I understand that there is a >> population that uses Voice Over on an iPad, but please know that >> Westlaw's >> internal development team conducts most of its accessibility testing on >> an >> IE-JAWS configuration. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 1:35 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Jorge Paez >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >> >> I haven’t done this in Chrome or ie, and I don’t know if the browser >> affects the way it works, but accounts usually default to email, look for >> an >> email button, and there is a delivery preference menu right underneath it >> where you can change that. >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT >>> click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and >>> you recognize the sender. >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to >>> give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" >>> link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? >>> >>> Laura >>> >>>> On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the >>>> option would be missing from your site. >>>> >>>>> On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello Jorge, >>>>> >>>>> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. >>>>> Word will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take >>>>> up less hard drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in >>>>> which case RTFs seem to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has >>>>> a page describing this format. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Jay Johnston >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez >>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Jorge Paez >>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >>>>> >>>>> Hello everyone. >>>>> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >>>>> options for downloading documents. >>>>> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >>>>> How do you bring that option up? >>>>> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or >>>>> Word Perfect. >>>>> >>>>> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Jorge >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fjeffjayjohnston% >>>>> 2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f >>>>> 7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0 >>>>> %7C637020030787928439&sdata=qEnD9353odLWyNxE7JNaqwRYVGx15jUWm3GC >>>>> 0In7NsE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fkelbycarlson%254 >>>>> 0gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f744 >>>>> 8e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C >>>>> 637020030787928439&sdata=Sjm6cJPySrPTLvA9V2K1GKT8M7KAs%2FIzpE%2F >>>>> DYlZS3dE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >>>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C >>>> paezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6 >>>> 2933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=GcS >>>> aduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >>>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gma >>>> il.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >>>> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020 >>>> 030787938436&sdata=FdYw7QNQed%2FLOzdL%2F3bVQDbFMnB4nsv87HOffVV9rg >>>> U%3D&reserved=0= >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa >>> ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6293 >>> 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787938436&sdata=E0Z%2F0 >>> CpG48piZyOl5whUT3AbNHlQgNY0Y4W%2F1VIK1%2Bo%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.brow >>> ard.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >>> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370200 >>> 30787938436&sdata=E%2BtlL%2BdAM5cS7oI5XQtT%2FPyoXLrN%2FiY4RVzLuniN >>> rho%3D&reserved=0= >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > From cabusgeorgia at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 18:21:50 2019 From: cabusgeorgia at gmail.com (Georgia Cabus) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:21:50 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Off topic: Running out doors In-Reply-To: <326F9BDB-AC60-4AE8-B4F0-8C3AE891F801@gmail.com> References: <326F9BDB-AC60-4AE8-B4F0-8C3AE891F801@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, There's a group of athletes whom are visually impaired. They have chapter in different states. I haven't tried it yet but as I understand it, they pair you up with a sighted guide. I'm more into cycling so I go more with the tandem group. Hope that helps. On Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:35 PM Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > I do. You cannn contact me at shannonldillon at gmail.com or 4152185862. > After 5 is best. > > > Thanks. > > Shannon > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > > > > I know this is an unusual question for this list serve, but does anyone > on > > the list, run out doors? If so, I would like to talk with them off list. > > Thanks, > > > > Howard M. Adelsberg > > > > [image: Mailtrack] > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Sender > > notified by > > Mailtrack > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > 08/21/19, > > 01:23:53 PM > > _______________________________________________ > > BlindLaw mailing list > > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cabusgeorgia%40gmail.com > From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au Wed Aug 21 18:45:41 2019 From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 18:45:41 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Off topic: Running out doors In-Reply-To: <326F9BDB-AC60-4AE8-B4F0-8C3AE891F801@gmail.com> References: <326F9BDB-AC60-4AE8-B4F0-8C3AE891F801@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes. I run a little with my guidedog in a very familiar and low use environment. I used to run all the time when I was in the Paralympics with a guide runner. Dr Paul Harpur BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. Senior Lecturer   TC Beirne School of Law The University of Queensland Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia   T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page  CRICOS code: 00025B Scientia ac Labore This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dillon via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 3:34 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shannon Dillon Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Off topic: Running out doors I do. You cannn contact me at shannonldillon at gmail.com or 4152185862. After 5 is best. Thanks. Shannon Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw wrote: > > I know this is an unusual question for this list serve, but does > anyone on the list, run out doors? If so, I would like to talk with them off list. > Thanks, > > Howard M. Adelsberg > > [image: Mailtrack] > gn=signaturevirality5&> > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > gn=signaturevirality5&> > 08/21/19, > 01:23:53 PM > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shannonldillon%4 > 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 18:48:38 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:48:38 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> <407259AB-B0B3-436C-AD7D-34F70955A4E6@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: Does anyone know if it is possible to get it to not make citations hyperlinks? I can't find an option for that. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:13 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > Also, Nandini, in case you are looking for it, when you are on the > screen that allows you to choose a file type, above it is a link > called layout options. That allows you to change the columns, nix the > headnotes, and make sure no highlighting comes along with your case > based on your search terms. > > Laura > >> On 8/21/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Thanks, everyone! Now I hopefully, can answer Jorge's question. My >> combo box defaulted to RTF, which was the second option. Microsoft >> Word was right above it. >> >> Laura >> >>> On 8/21/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Browser does matter to an extent. For the best experience, Westlaw >>> recommends using IE or Chrome with JAWS. I understand that there is a >>> population that uses Voice Over on an iPad, but please know that >>> Westlaw's >>> internal development team conducts most of its accessibility testing on >>> an >>> IE-JAWS configuration. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via >>> BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 1:35 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Jorge Paez >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >>> >>> I haven’t done this in Chrome or ie, and I don’t know if the browser >>> affects the way it works, but accounts usually default to email, look for >>> an >>> email button, and there is a delivery preference menu right underneath it >>> where you can change that. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT >>>> click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and >>>> you recognize the sender. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to >>>> give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" >>>> link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>>> On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the >>>>> option would be missing from your site. >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hello Jorge, >>>>>> >>>>>> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. >>>>>> Word will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take >>>>>> up less hard drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in >>>>>> which case RTFs seem to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has >>>>>> a page describing this format. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Jay Johnston >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez >>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Jorge Paez >>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone. >>>>>> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >>>>>> options for downloading documents. >>>>>> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >>>>>> How do you bring that option up? >>>>>> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or >>>>>> Word Perfect. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jorge >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fjeffjayjohnston% >>>>>> 2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f >>>>>> 7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0 >>>>>> %7C637020030787928439&sdata=qEnD9353odLWyNxE7JNaqwRYVGx15jUWm3GC >>>>>> 0In7NsE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fkelbycarlson%254 >>>>>> 0gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f744 >>>>>> 8e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C >>>>>> 637020030787928439&sdata=Sjm6cJPySrPTLvA9V2K1GKT8M7KAs%2FIzpE%2F >>>>>> DYlZS3dE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >>>>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C >>>>> paezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6 >>>>> 2933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=GcS >>>>> aduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >>>>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gma >>>>> il.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >>>>> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020 >>>>> 030787938436&sdata=FdYw7QNQed%2FLOzdL%2F3bVQDbFMnB4nsv87HOffVV9rg >>>>> U%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >>>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa >>>> ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6293 >>>> 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787938436&sdata=E0Z%2F0 >>>> CpG48piZyOl5whUT3AbNHlQgNY0Y4W%2F1VIK1%2Bo%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >>>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.brow >>>> ard.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >>>> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370200 >>>> 30787938436&sdata=E%2BtlL%2BdAM5cS7oI5XQtT%2FPyoXLrN%2FiY4RVzLuniN >>>> rho%3D&reserved=0= >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Wed Aug 21 18:55:56 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 18:55:56 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> Daniel: Why would they need to install JAWS? Couldn’t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? I’m guessing you’d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? > On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > Aimee: > > The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the > County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. > > In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County > Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could > be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. > The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer > in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research > platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. > > Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of > issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. > > Daniel McBride > Fort Worth > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the > Public > > Hi Everyone, > > I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking > for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. > > I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very > soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I > expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. > Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be > fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance > for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively > answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really > do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or > suggestions. > > I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, > (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR > complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a > student. > > (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving > accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to > visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school > I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I > go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a > member of the public. > > (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS > and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was > dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind > student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not > have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that > avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. > > (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR > complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues > I had as a student? > > I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very > hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything > was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with > this request. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au Wed Aug 21 19:08:21 2019 From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:08:21 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: Guest access on your own laptop is easy if it gives you access to everything you can access on a PC. If it does not it might be easier to ask for NVDA or to offer to show them Jaws in demo mode. It is not perfect but requires less. If you have a poor relationship with the law school or law library already it might be worth going to another one, even if that is more effort. Starting fresh is always easier. Dr Paul Harpur BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. Senior Lecturer   TC Beirne School of Law The University of Queensland Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia   T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page  CRICOS code: 00025B Scientia ac Labore This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 4:56 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Jorge Paez Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public Daniel: Why would they need to install JAWS? Couldn’t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? I’m guessing you’d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? > On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > Aimee: > > The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by > the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. > > In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County > Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what > could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. > The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access > computer in the front of the library. With this, I have access to > every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. > > Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this > type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. > > Daniel McBride > Fort Worth > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee > Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM > To: BlindLaw > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to > the Public > > Hi Everyone, > > I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely > asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. > > I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research > very soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below > concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. > Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want > to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected > resistance for accommodations. If there are additional details needed > to effectively answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for > clarification. I really do need your assistance and most certainly > appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. > > I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the > public, > (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing > an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced > there as a student. > > (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving > accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I > need to visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one > is the school I attended and had so much problems with regarding > accommodations. Before I go, I would like to know my rights for > accessing content at the library as a member of the public. > > (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with > JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira > since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had > another blind student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide > Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford > one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. > > (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an > OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to > the issues I had as a student? > > I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been > very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most > everything was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to > approach them with this request. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne > t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa > ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e6293 > 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN% > 2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne > t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal > .net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412 > e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370199458 > 86391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&am > p;reserved=0= > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne > t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa > ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e6293 > 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN% > 2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne > t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.brow > ard.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab > 412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370199 > 45886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D > &reserved=0= _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com From paezja at mail.broward.edu Wed Aug 21 19:13:25 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:13:25 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Word in WestLaw Message-ID: <6ABAB7EA-6D9A-4EDC-B1DB-475DC0DBF3D0@mail.broward.edu> Hello everyone. So I just ran through my own test downloading a case and yes, the Word option does actually show up first, although for whatever reason the platform defaults to RTF. Thank you so much for your help. Jorge From jeffjayjohnston at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 19:14:27 2019 From: jeffjayjohnston at gmail.com (Jeff Jay Johnston) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 12:14:27 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? In-Reply-To: References: <084601d5579d$a5e38110$f1aa8330$@gmail.com> <407259AB-B0B3-436C-AD7D-34F70955A4E6@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: <0d0501d55854$a7bdf940$f739ebc0$@gmail.com> Once downloaded, you could cut the hyperlinks to the clipboard and paste them as text only. You could of course do this to the entire document, but you would be losing any/all formatting: italic, underlining, etc. Jay -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of kelby carlson via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:49 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: kelby carlson Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? Does anyone know if it is possible to get it to not make citations hyperlinks? I can't find an option for that. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:13 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > Also, Nandini, in case you are looking for it, when you are on the > screen that allows you to choose a file type, above it is a link > called layout options. That allows you to change the columns, nix the > headnotes, and make sure no highlighting comes along with your case > based on your search terms. > > Laura > >> On 8/21/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Thanks, everyone! Now I hopefully, can answer Jorge's question. My >> combo box defaulted to RTF, which was the second option. Microsoft >> Word was right above it. >> >> Laura >> >>> On 8/21/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Browser does matter to an extent. For the best experience, Westlaw >>> recommends using IE or Chrome with JAWS. I understand that there is a >>> population that uses Voice Over on an iPad, but please know that >>> Westlaw's >>> internal development team conducts most of its accessibility testing on >>> an >>> IE-JAWS configuration. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via >>> BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 1:35 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Jorge Paez >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >>> >>> I haven’t done this in Chrome or ie, and I don’t know if the browser >>> affects the way it works, but accounts usually default to email, look for >>> an >>> email button, and there is a delivery preference menu right underneath it >>> where you can change that. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT >>>> click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and >>>> you recognize the sender. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> Actually, I just tried logging on to Westlaw in both Chrome and IE to >>>> give Jorge more specific directions, and I can't find the "download" >>>> link anymore on either browser. Is anyone else having this problem? >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>>> On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> I regularly download cases in Word format; I'm not sure why the >>>>> option would be missing from your site. >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/20/19, jeffjayjohnston--- via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hello Jorge, >>>>>> >>>>>> RTF (Rich Text Format) is a Microsoft format very similar to .doc. >>>>>> Word will open RTFs and can save files as RTFs. They usually take >>>>>> up less hard drive space than .doc/.docx unless there are images, in >>>>>> which case RTFs seem to actually take up more space. Wikipedia has >>>>>> a page describing this format. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Jay Johnston >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Jorge Paez >>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 7:22 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Jorge Paez >>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Downloading cases from WestLaw in word? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone. >>>>>> So, I’ve now started using WestLaw and I’m pretty familiar with the >>>>>> options for downloading documents. >>>>>> However I’ve seen references on here to download them as word files? >>>>>> How do you bring that option up? >>>>>> As far as I know the download options on my end are RTF, PDF, or >>>>>> Word Perfect. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any help would be gladly appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jorge >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fjeffjayjohnston% >>>>>> 2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f >>>>>> 7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0 >>>>>> %7C637020030787928439&sdata=qEnD9353odLWyNxE7JNaqwRYVGx15jUWm3GC >>>>>> 0In7NsE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01% >>>>>> 7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd >>>>>> 8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata >>>>>> =GcSaduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfb >>>>>> net.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fkelbycarlson%254 >>>>>> 0gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f744 >>>>>> 8e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C >>>>>> 637020030787928439&sdata=Sjm6cJPySrPTLvA9V2K1GKT8M7KAs%2FIzpE%2F >>>>>> DYlZS3dE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >>>>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C >>>>> paezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6 >>>>> 2933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787928439&sdata=GcS >>>>> aduWGnzh8cp2V%2FpXduZ1AObU7g1SOadZqzbVcSRk%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbn >>>>> et.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Flaura.wolk%2540gma >>>>> il.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >>>>> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020 >>>>> 030787938436&sdata=FdYw7QNQed%2FLOzdL%2F3bVQDbFMnB4nsv87HOffVV9rg >>>>> U%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >>>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa >>>> ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e4941b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e6293 >>>> 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637020030787938436&sdata=E0Z%2F0 >>>> CpG48piZyOl5whUT3AbNHlQgNY0Y4W%2F1VIK1%2Bo%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >>>> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.brow >>>> ard.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C7a4e21f7448e494 >>>> 1b61708d72657c8ca%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370200 >>>> 30787938436&sdata=E%2BtlL%2BdAM5cS7oI5XQtT%2FPyoXLrN%2FiY4RVzLuniN >>>> rho%3D&reserved=0= >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jeffjayjohnston%40gmail.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 23:05:57 2019 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:05:57 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns In-Reply-To: <16739cec94484e2da251737a5afb8212@holsteinlaw.com> References: <16739cec94484e2da251737a5afb8212@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: <000001d55874$fe9a18a0$fbce49e0$@gmail.com> You can also go to the end of the column and use control plus right arrow after the last word in the column to continue to the top of the next column. It's not great but I've made due with it. If there is a setting you can change in JAWS that would be great. I'll also try your recommendation Brian. Deepa Deepinder K. Goraya, ESQ. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian Unitt via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 1:40 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Brian Unitt Subject: Re: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns Hi Laura, I am not sure whether this is helpful for what you need to accomplish, but there is an option to download as a word document without the two-column format. I am attaching a sample case. When you press the download button and choose word format from the drop down box, you can tab to "layout options" and there is a checkbox for two column format that can be unchecked. Of course if you have to retain the columns, then this won't be of any help but thought I'd offer it. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 4:20 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindLaw] reading word documents with multiple text columns Hi all, As some of you may know, if you download opinions from Westlaw in Word format, the text displays as two columns on the page. For reasons that are unavoidable, I sometimes need to work with these documents. I also need to cite to them as they are displayed, so converting is yet again not an option. Neitehr is going to Westlaw itself and reading the opinion directly or via another format. I can do that if all I need is the info; I can't if I need to cite it. When I try reading these documents with Jaws, it will just read straight down the column instead of going back up to the top of the page to read the other column. Does anyone know of a setting I can change so that Jaws will recognize and read these documents correctly? Thanks, Laura _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinl aw.com From cjdavis9193 at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 00:03:31 2019 From: cjdavis9193 at gmail.com (Cody Davis) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 20:03:31 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Opinions on requesting accommodation in application process In-Reply-To: References: <4AB03872-8D57-4BA1-9F22-16C4B5B22030@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8FD149E8-A073-468F-A3BF-AE71FA7B1521@gmail.com> Your thinking on this is very much in line with my instincts. Thank you for the input. > On Aug 21, 2019, at 11:03 AM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > Cody, > > If there's any possible way to avoid asking for accommodations for the sample, I would advise doing so. Re: formatting, perhaps you can ask for a template and then ensure that your formatting matches theirs. If you feel strongly that you would need help with formatting if hired, then you may want to discuss accommodations related to formatting for the sample assignment to avoid being eliminated because of a purely cosmetic defect with your work product. Re: timeliness, asking for more time at this stage would be a huge red flag and would be likely to eliminate you from consideration in all but the most enlightened places. Good luck with the application! > > > > > > On 8/21/2019 10:19 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >> All, >> >> I have been on a couple interviews for a paralegal position in the local U.S. Attorney???s office, and I am unsure whether I should ask for accommodations for a particular part of the application process. >> >> Candidates who make it to the final round for this position will be asked to complete a research assignment. The assignment will be timed from the moment it is emailed to the applicant until the moment when it is returned by email to the office. It is intended to be a research and drafting project that can be completed in one sitting. I don???t know much about what the project will be other than it will be a problem similar to a problem I addressed in the writing sample I provided them, which was a trial brief responding to a pretrial motion to exclude evidence. The assignment will be evaluated anonymously by 3 attorneys in the office. The one the attorney???s like best determines who gets the job. >> >> I am unsure if I should ask that my blindness be considered in evaluating how long it takes me to complete the project or in evaluating formatting certain aspects of the assignment, like case captions, that might be involved. >> >> It???s an od situation since there is no hard time limit and because it is anonymously evaluated. >> >> Any thoughts? I???m wondering if any request for accommodations with this assignment will be detrimental to my chances of getting the job as it may give them reason to be concerned about my abilities to get work done in a timely manner. >> >> On a related note, I have already been assured that the materials for the assignment will be accessible, and I have no issue asking for that type of accommodation should they turn out not to be accessible. >> >> Respectfully, >> Cody >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 00:24:33 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 20:24:33 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Daniel: > Why would they need to install JAWS? > Couldn’t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? > I’m guessing you’d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? > > > > >> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> Aimee: >> >> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >> >> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >> >> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >> >> Daniel McBride >> Fort Worth >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >> Public >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >> >> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >> suggestions. >> >> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >> student. >> >> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >> member of the public. >> >> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >> >> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >> I had as a student? >> >> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >> this request. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 00:44:19 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 20:44:19 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: <35885930-682D-41A5-A1D7-1309447028FC@gmail.com> Dr. Harper, Thank you for the suggestion. This library is the closest for me. Others are far enough away that it would cost me 4.53 times more for me to go to them than it would for me to go to the library closest to me. I feel I should not have to be forced to spend that much more just because they will not accommodate. I am willing to bring my own computer. If I can't access lexis and westlaw through guest access, freedom is making it much more affordable for universities to provide JAWS on their computers. I just need to know what my rights are so I can confidently reach out to them and not be denied access if I legally have the right to access them. I really do appreciate these comments. Please keep them coming if you guys think of others. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 3:08 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw wrote: > > Guest access on your own laptop is easy if it gives you access to everything you can access on a PC. If it does not it might be easier to ask for NVDA or to offer to show them Jaws in demo mode. It is not perfect but requires less. If you have a poor relationship with the law school or law library already it might be worth going to another one, even if that is more effort. Starting fresh is always easier. > > Dr Paul Harpur > BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) > Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. > Senior Lecturer > > TC Beirne School of Law > The University of Queensland > Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia > > T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 > E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page > CRICOS code: 00025B > > > > > Scientia ac Labore > > This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2019 4:56 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Jorge Paez > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public > > Daniel: > Why would they need to install JAWS? > Couldn’t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? > I’m guessing you’d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? > > > > >> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> Aimee: >> >> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by >> the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >> >> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what >> could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access >> computer in the front of the library. With this, I have access to >> every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >> >> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this >> type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >> >> Daniel McBride >> Fort Worth >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to >> the Public >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely >> asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >> >> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research >> very soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >> concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want >> to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected >> resistance for accommodations. If there are additional details needed >> to effectively answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for >> clarification. I really do need your assistance and most certainly >> appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >> >> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the >> public, >> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing >> an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced >> there as a student. >> >> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I >> need to visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one >> is the school I attended and had so much problems with regarding >> accommodations. Before I go, I would like to know my rights for >> accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >> >> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with >> JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >> since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had >> another blind student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide >> Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford >> one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >> >> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an >> OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to >> the issues I had as a student? >> >> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been >> very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most >> everything was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to >> approach them with this request. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa >> ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e6293 >> 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN% >> 2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal >> .net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412 >> e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370199458 >> 86391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&am >> p;reserved=0= >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpa >> ezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e6293 >> 3bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN% >> 2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbne >> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.brow >> ard.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab >> 412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370199 >> 45886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D >> &reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 22 01:29:43 2019 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 20:29:43 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> Message-ID: <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> George: At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. Dan -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Daniel: > Why would they need to install JAWS? > Couldn’t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? > I’m guessing you’d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? > > > > >> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> Aimee: >> >> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >> >> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >> >> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >> >> Daniel McBride >> Fort Worth >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >> To: BlindLaw >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >> Public >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >> >> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >> suggestions. >> >> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >> student. >> >> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >> member of the public. >> >> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >> >> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >> I had as a student? >> >> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >> this request. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From awildheir at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 16:24:27 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 12:24:27 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <67F447D5-AF79-41B9-A4DB-8C76A47AC2AE@gmail.com> Hi Dan, For proof of practice, to which county in Texas are you referring? If I can go in with examples of the practices utilized by other law libraries open to the public, no matter if they are affiliated with a law school or not, I will have a stronger case for receiving the accommodation. This is why I'm asking for assistance from this list. I would like for more members to share their experiances and locations of law libraries providing the accommodations. With this information, I will be able to show what I am requesting is in fact common. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: > > George: > > At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. > > It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public > > This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Daniel: >> Why would they need to install JAWS? >> Couldn’t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >> I’m guessing you’d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Aimee: >>> >>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>> >>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>> >>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>> >>> Daniel McBride >>> Fort Worth >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>> To: BlindLaw >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>> Public >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>> >>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>> suggestions. >>> >>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>> student. >>> >>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>> member of the public. >>> >>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>> >>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>> I had as a student? >>> >>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>> this request. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From sanho817 at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 22:43:50 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 17:43:50 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Filing Documents with the Court In-Reply-To: References: <01c801d55792$81b78f30$8526ad90$@com> <113D364D-BFA4-4947-9251-76D04C48EE48@gmail.com> Message-ID: All, I spoke with the clerk today. Suffice it to say that electronic documents are completely fine. She was just as confused as all of us about why they wouldn't be. Just bad information from someone who thought they knew better. Warmth, Sanho On 8/21/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart wrote: > All, > > It's being investigated by the dean. She seemed appropriately > mystified as to why the fact that most people handwrite these > petitions means that I would have to handwrite them, so she's having a > conversation with the person who told me as much and has directed me > to contact the probono coordinator. > > Warmth, > Sanho > > On 8/21/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> I have never heard of this. We have to print out our documents and >> sign them, and they are subsequently physically filed and scanned >> in--unfortunately our court does not let us use digital signatures. >> However, getting a secretary to help me sign documents has never been >> a problem. It's not an efficient system, but it is workable. I don't >> see this as a good reason for you not to participate in a program. >> >> >> >> On 8/20/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Please satisfy our collective curiosity and let us know which court this >>> is. >>> Also make sure you check the judge's specific rules in case he has >>> displaced that one. . I've never heard of such a thing. And I thought >>> rules >>> about acceptable binding forms were ridiculous... >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 4:59 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> All, >>>> >>>> There are some fascinating studies about judges and prejudices against >>>> handwriting and written grammar. Suffice it to say that it's exactly >>>> as real as you'd think. >>>> >>>> I checked in with the dean. We'll see what comes of it. >>>> >>>> On 8/20/19, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>>> That's interesting! I wonder what effect that would have on the >>>>> presiding >>>>> judge(s) decision(s) 'cause a petition is handwritten! Wouldn't that >>>>> which >>>>> is typewritten be much easier to read? Or, does the court render an >>>>> opinion >>>>> based on how cursive an individual's hand writing is? >>>>> >>>>> I do agree that the clerk be contacted for further explanations and >>>>> that's >>>>> assuming there's a clerk where you practice! >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Olusegun >>>>> Denver, Colorado >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com >> > From rmarrowood12 at me.com Sat Aug 24 15:37:17 2019 From: rmarrowood12 at me.com (Rebecca Arrowood) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 10:37:17 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Question Message-ID: <7BA7EF52-E6AA-4AFB-8BB7-F2AF91C254B4@me.com> Good morning, I am brand new to this list as I am starting to think about a career in law. I have a bachelors degree in accounting and finance and then a masters degree in counseling. I worked as a mental health and substance abuse counselor for two years but ultimately decided it was not a good fit for me. I am potentially interested in either corporate law or even looking at diversity and inclusion as well as disability rights. I have some limited vision but mainly use assistive technology such as JAWS. I would very much love to connect with anyone who would like to share more with me regarding their experience and process into law school. How did you know you wanted to pursue law school? What have been the most challenging aspects of either law school or being a lawyer? Thanks, Rebecca Arrowood Sent from my iPhone From paezja at mail.broward.edu Sat Aug 24 16:34:11 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 16:34:11 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Question In-Reply-To: <7BA7EF52-E6AA-4AFB-8BB7-F2AF91C254B4@me.com> References: <7BA7EF52-E6AA-4AFB-8BB7-F2AF91C254B4@me.com> Message-ID: <31376964-95DD-4CD2-A2B5-FE424B12043B@mail.broward.edu> Currently an undergraduate student getting my B.S. in Legal Studies as preparation for going to Law School and getting ready to take the LSAT in April 2020. Also doing an internship with my county’s public defender office.. I’m totally blind so depend totally on assistive tech. I’d be happy to connect, just email me off list. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2019, at 11:41 AM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw wrote: > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. > ________________________________ > > Good morning, > > I am brand new to this list as I am starting to think about a career in law. I have a bachelors degree in accounting and finance and then a masters degree in counseling. I worked as a mental health and substance abuse counselor for two years but ultimately decided it was not a good fit for me. I am potentially interested in either corporate law or even looking at diversity and inclusion as well as disability rights. I have some limited vision but mainly use assistive technology such as JAWS. > > I would very much love to connect with anyone who would like to share more with me regarding their experience and process into law school. How did you know you wanted to pursue law school? What have been the most challenging aspects of either law school or being a lawyer? > > Thanks, > Rebecca Arrowood > Sent from my iPhone > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2c714d22f4bd49a907fe08d728a97f35%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637022580760611337&sdata=pVLyw3R7l4W5BPXFP6trVKpo%2BcUV%2B7iZhCV948gH99o%3D&reserved=0= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2c714d22f4bd49a907fe08d728a97f35%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637022580760611337&sdata=8sO6%2BWzPUlV%2FN75pw3PGqyytNBT4n2auBE%2Fyz5gkpc8%3D&reserved=0= From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 19:42:06 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 15:42:06 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] NVDA and JAWS in a Legal Environment Message-ID: All, I'm curious if anyone besides me uses NVDA in their legal work. I switched to it during school, because I was doing law review, and I was having major trouble handling footnotes in Word 2016. I did interact with some comments recently about the danger of using programs like NVDA in employment, because of lack of customizability and interfacing with proprietary software. So, my question is: how big is the advantage of JAWS over NVDA? Is JAWS more likely to work with specialized software, or is it easier to get scripts? Very to know anyone's thoughts on this. I also worry about, if I do decide JAWS might ultimately work better for me, getting my employer to purchase it. Sent from my iPhone From sanho817 at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 21:00:56 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 16:00:56 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] NVDA and JAWS in a Legal Environment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kelby, Worst case scenario, remember that you can now buy an annual subscription to JAWS rather than the more expensive package. The annual subscription route also comes with updates. Sanho On 8/24/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > All, > > I'm curious if anyone besides me uses NVDA in their legal work. I switched > to it during school, because I was doing law review, and I was having major > trouble handling footnotes in Word 2016. > > I did interact with some comments recently about the danger of using > programs like NVDA in employment, because of lack of customizability and > interfacing with proprietary software. > > So, my question is: how big is the advantage of JAWS over NVDA? Is JAWS more > likely to work with specialized software, or is it easier to get scripts? > > Very to know anyone's thoughts on this. I also worry about, if I do decide > JAWS might ultimately work better for me, getting my employer to purchase > it. > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com > From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au Sat Aug 24 21:54:58 2019 From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 21:54:58 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] NVDA and JAWS in a Legal Environment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: NVDA is open source so there could be scripts out there and can create new ones as well. Dr Paul Harpur BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. Senior Lecturer   TC Beirne School of Law The University of Queensland Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia   T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page  CRICOS code: 00025B Scientia ac Labore This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw Sent: Sunday, 25 August 2019 7:01 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NVDA and JAWS in a Legal Environment Kelby, Worst case scenario, remember that you can now buy an annual subscription to JAWS rather than the more expensive package. The annual subscription route also comes with updates. Sanho On 8/24/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > All, > > I'm curious if anyone besides me uses NVDA in their legal work. I > switched to it during school, because I was doing law review, and I > was having major trouble handling footnotes in Word 2016. > > I did interact with some comments recently about the danger of using > programs like NVDA in employment, because of lack of customizability > and interfacing with proprietary software. > > So, my question is: how big is the advantage of JAWS over NVDA? Is > JAWS more likely to work with specialized software, or is it easier to get scripts? > > Very to know anyone's thoughts on this. I also worry about, if I do > decide JAWS might ultimately work better for me, getting my employer > to purchase it. > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail > .com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com From wickps at gmail.com Sun Aug 25 03:38:42 2019 From: wickps at gmail.com (Paul Wick) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 20:38:42 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Question In-Reply-To: <31376964-95DD-4CD2-A2B5-FE424B12043B@mail.broward.edu> References: <7BA7EF52-E6AA-4AFB-8BB7-F2AF91C254B4@me.com> <31376964-95DD-4CD2-A2B5-FE424B12043B@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: <12521CA8-8656-4F4A-9776-832D13C93C3B@gmail.com> Hi Rebecca, What specifically interests you about the law? Your two prior degrees are in highly disparate fields; are you interested in policy? If so, I would highly suggest getting a Masters in public policy or public administration instead, as time-to-degree and debt load are shorter while marketability is higher. I really loved the things we studied in law school, but not such a fan of the practice of law. Best, Paul Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2019, at 9:34 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Currently an undergraduate student getting my B.S. in Legal Studies as preparation for going to Law School and getting ready to take the LSAT in April 2020. Also doing an internship with my county’s public defender office.. > I’m totally blind so depend totally on assistive tech. > I’d be happy to connect, just email me off list. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 24, 2019, at 11:41 AM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >> ________________________________ >> >> Good morning, >> >> I am brand new to this list as I am starting to think about a career in law. I have a bachelors degree in accounting and finance and then a masters degree in counseling. I worked as a mental health and substance abuse counselor for two years but ultimately decided it was not a good fit for me. I am potentially interested in either corporate law or even looking at diversity and inclusion as well as disability rights. I have some limited vision but mainly use assistive technology such as JAWS. >> >> I would very much love to connect with anyone who would like to share more with me regarding their experience and process into law school. How did you know you wanted to pursue law school? What have been the most challenging aspects of either law school or being a lawyer? >> >> Thanks, >> Rebecca Arrowood >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2c714d22f4bd49a907fe08d728a97f35%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637022580760611337&sdata=pVLyw3R7l4W5BPXFP6trVKpo%2BcUV%2B7iZhCV948gH99o%3D&reserved=0= >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2c714d22f4bd49a907fe08d728a97f35%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637022580760611337&sdata=8sO6%2BWzPUlV%2FN75pw3PGqyytNBT4n2auBE%2Fyz5gkpc8%3D&reserved=0= > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com From sanho817 at gmail.com Sun Aug 25 07:37:33 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 02:37:33 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Question In-Reply-To: <12521CA8-8656-4F4A-9776-832D13C93C3B@gmail.com> References: <7BA7EF52-E6AA-4AFB-8BB7-F2AF91C254B4@me.com> <31376964-95DD-4CD2-A2B5-FE424B12043B@mail.broward.edu> <12521CA8-8656-4F4A-9776-832D13C93C3B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5EBEC215-A840-40AB-8C4A-502FDD345A85@gmail.com> Paul, Why are you not a fan of the practice? Sanho > On Aug 24, 2019, at 10:38 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw wrote: > > > Hi Rebecca, > > What specifically interests you about the law? Your two prior degrees are in highly disparate fields; are you interested in policy? If so, I would highly suggest getting a Masters in public policy or public administration instead, as time-to-degree and debt load are shorter while marketability is higher. I really loved the things we studied in law school, but not such a fan of the practice of law. > > Best, > > Paul > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 24, 2019, at 9:34 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Currently an undergraduate student getting my B.S. in Legal Studies as preparation for going to Law School and getting ready to take the LSAT in April 2020. Also doing an internship with my county’s public defender office.. >> I’m totally blind so depend totally on assistive tech. >> I’d be happy to connect, just email me off list. >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 24, 2019, at 11:41 AM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Good morning, >>> >>> I am brand new to this list as I am starting to think about a career in law. I have a bachelors degree in accounting and finance and then a masters degree in counseling. I worked as a mental health and substance abuse counselor for two years but ultimately decided it was not a good fit for me. I am potentially interested in either corporate law or even looking at diversity and inclusion as well as disability rights. I have some limited vision but mainly use assistive technology such as JAWS. >>> >>> I would very much love to connect with anyone who would like to share more with me regarding their experience and process into law school. How did you know you wanted to pursue law school? What have been the most challenging aspects of either law school or being a lawyer? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Rebecca Arrowood >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2c714d22f4bd49a907fe08d728a97f35%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637022580760611337&sdata=pVLyw3R7l4W5BPXFP6trVKpo%2BcUV%2B7iZhCV948gH99o%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C2c714d22f4bd49a907fe08d728a97f35%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637022580760611337&sdata=8sO6%2BWzPUlV%2FN75pw3PGqyytNBT4n2auBE%2Fyz5gkpc8%3D&reserved=0= >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com From jtfetter at yahoo.com Sun Aug 25 19:28:22 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 15:28:22 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Question In-Reply-To: <7BA7EF52-E6AA-4AFB-8BB7-F2AF91C254B4@me.com> References: <7BA7EF52-E6AA-4AFB-8BB7-F2AF91C254B4@me.com> Message-ID: Hi Rebecca, Please feel free to contact me off list at jtfetter at yahoo.com. I am a new attorney working primarily in disability rights. Thanks. On 8/24/2019 11:37 AM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw wrote: > Good morning, > > I am brand new to this list as I am starting to think about a career in law. I have a bachelors degree in accounting and finance and then a masters degree in counseling. I worked as a mental health and substance abuse counselor for two years but ultimately decided it was not a good fit for me. I am potentially interested in either corporate law or even looking at diversity and inclusion as well as disability rights. I have some limited vision but mainly use assistive technology such as JAWS. > > I would very much love to connect with anyone who would like to share more with me regarding their experience and process into law school. How did you know you wanted to pursue law school? What have been the most challenging aspects of either law school or being a lawyer? > > Thanks, > Rebecca Arrowood > Sent from my iPhone > > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From awildheir at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 18:22:15 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 14:22:15 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Question In-Reply-To: References: <7BA7EF52-E6AA-4AFB-8BB7-F2AF91C254B4@me.com> Message-ID: <645D9344-E584-48BB-8D78-BC521D436265@gmail.com> I also would like to hear your thoughts James. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2019, at 3:28 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi Rebecca, > > Please feel free to contact me off list at jtfetter at yahoo.com. I am a new attorney working primarily in disability rights. Thanks. > > >> On 8/24/2019 11:37 AM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Good morning, >> >> I am brand new to this list as I am starting to think about a career in law. I have a bachelors degree in accounting and finance and then a masters degree in counseling. I worked as a mental health and substance abuse counselor for two years but ultimately decided it was not a good fit for me. I am potentially interested in either corporate law or even looking at diversity and inclusion as well as disability rights. I have some limited vision but mainly use assistive technology such as JAWS. >> >> I would very much love to connect with anyone who would like to share more with me regarding their experience and process into law school. How did you know you wanted to pursue law school? What have been the most challenging aspects of either law school or being a lawyer? >> >> Thanks, >> Rebecca Arrowood >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 17:41:03 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:41:03 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: > > George: > > At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. > > It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public > > This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Daniel: >> Why would they need to install JAWS? >> Couldn’t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >> I’m guessing you’d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Aimee: >>> >>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>> >>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>> >>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>> >>> Daniel McBride >>> Fort Worth >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>> To: BlindLaw >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>> Public >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>> >>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>> suggestions. >>> >>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>> student. >>> >>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>> member of the public. >>> >>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>> >>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>> I had as a student? >>> >>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>> this request. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 17:48:59 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:48:59 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. This is exactly what it says. "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: > > George: > > At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. > > It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public > > This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Daniel: >> Why would they need to install JAWS? >> Couldn’t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >> I’m guessing you’d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Aimee: >>> >>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>> >>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>> >>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>> >>> Daniel McBride >>> Fort Worth >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>> To: BlindLaw >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>> Public >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>> >>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>> suggestions. >>> >>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>> student. >>> >>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>> member of the public. >>> >>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>> >>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>> I had as a student? >>> >>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>> this request. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Aug 27 18:04:11 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:04:11 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> Message-ID: Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. > > This is exactly what it says. > "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. > Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. > > Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " > > Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> George: >> >> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >> >> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >> >> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Daniel: >>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> Aimee: >>>> >>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>> >>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>> >>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>> >>>> Daniel McBride >>>> Fort Worth >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>> To: BlindLaw >>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>>> Public >>>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>> >>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>>> suggestions. >>>> >>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>>> student. >>>> >>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>>> member of the public. >>>> >>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>> >>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>>> I had as a student? >>>> >>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>>> this request. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 18:12:04 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:12:04 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. > > >> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >> >> This is exactly what it says. >> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >> >> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >> >> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> George: >>> >>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>> >>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>> >>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Daniel: >>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> Aimee: >>>>> >>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>> >>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>> >>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>> >>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>> Fort Worth >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>>>> Public >>>>> >>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>> >>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>>>> suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>>>> student. >>>>> >>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>>>> member of the public. >>>>> >>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>> >>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>>>> I had as a student? >>>>> >>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>>>> this request. >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 18:31:00 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:31:00 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> Message-ID: <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? Sincerely, Maura Kutnyak 716-563-9882 > On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > > Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. > > My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >> >> >>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>> >>> This is exactly what it says. >>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>> >>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>> >>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> George: >>>> >>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>> >>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>>> >>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Daniel: >>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>> >>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>> >>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>> >>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>>>>> Public >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>>>>> student. >>>>>> >>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>> >>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>> >>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>> >>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>>>>> this request. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Aug 27 18:50:50 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:50:50 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8821d815-8f11-5298-ee82-7d4fae59b4fa@yahoo.com> Possibly, assuming that the print materials are available on Westlaw and Lexis. I suppose they could also offer you a "qualified reader," although that would be far more burdensome for them and obviously far less efficient for you. You may just have to approach them with the suggestion of using Westlaw and Lexis and explain why the alternatives would be unworkable and see what they say. I have a feeling you will get some resistance, since it is very likely that the library doesn't have the unilateral ability to allow members of the public to use these services. There may also be significant differences between the materials available on Westlaw and Lexis and those available in print in the library. Perhaps I would request Westlaw/Lexis access but say that, in the alternative, you would need the print materials you found in your research to be given to you in electronic format and possibly some research assistance, depending on how easy it is to find what you're looking for without being able to read any part of the print materials. If they say no to both suggestions without providing an alternative, then they're not engaging in the interactive process, which is a problem for them. On 8/27/2019 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. > > My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >> >> >>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>> >>> This is exactly what it says. >>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>> >>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>> >>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> George: >>>> >>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>> >>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>>> >>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Daniel: >>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>> >>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>> >>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>> >>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>>>>> Public >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>>>>> student. >>>>>> >>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>> >>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>> >>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>> >>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>>>>> this request. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 19:03:08 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 15:03:08 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> Hi Maura, I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.🤔 Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: > > Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? > > Sincerely, > > Maura Kutnyak > 716-563-9882 > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >> >> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>> >>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>> >>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>> >>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> George: >>>>> >>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>> >>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>>>> >>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>>>>>> Public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>>>>>> student. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From NSingh at cov.com Tue Aug 27 19:11:20 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 19:11:20 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> Have you considered using Westlaw's reference attorneys via phone for research assistance? A few associates at my firm have done this sometimes when there are tech problems with firm-issued laptops. The reference attorneys can at the very least narrow your universe. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hi Maura, I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.🤔 Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: > > Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? > > Sincerely, > > Maura Kutnyak > 716-563-9882 > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >> >> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>> >>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>> >>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>> >>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> George: >>>>> >>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>> >>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>> Open to the Public >>>>> >>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>> operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>> what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>> access computer in the front of the library. With this, I have >>>>>>> access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>> this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>> politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>> research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list >>>>>>> for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>> want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face >>>>>>> the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are >>>>>>> additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I >>>>>>> will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your >>>>>>> assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>> filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I >>>>>>> experienced there as a student. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>> receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>> research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal >>>>>>> research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so >>>>>>> much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I >>>>>>> would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>> with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them >>>>>>> info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it >>>>>>> if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I >>>>>>> ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira >>>>>>> subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>> file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to >>>>>>> relate it back to the issues I had as a student? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>> been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be >>>>>>> done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very >>>>>>> apprehensive to approach them with this request. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2 >>>>>>> 540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C >>>>>>> fbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1 >>>>>>> 658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xE >>>>>>> qvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>> get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2 >>>>>>> 540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu >>>>>>> %7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841 >>>>>>> be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JK >>>>>>> U2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbc >>>>> global.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40ya >>>> hoo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gm >>> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40 >> gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai > l.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 19:51:56 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 15:51:56 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <8821d815-8f11-5298-ee82-7d4fae59b4fa@yahoo.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <8821d815-8f11-5298-ee82-7d4fae59b4fa@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2F725095-008D-43CB-83CC-96B989893A62@gmail.com> Hi James, Thank you. That seems like a very wise and reasonable approach. They have had a bit of a history with not really wanting to engage in the interactive process. When I was a student there simple accommodations such as priority/early registration were refused as was my request for the pdf versions of my books to be provided in DAISY, HTML, or Word. They were not all that interested in contemplating the barriers I encountered. They just assumed they were excuses and I simply was not capable. This was despite 2 professors and a psychologist going to bat for me when I filed for reconsideration of my academic dismissal. They also very conveniently made major changes to their academic policy the same time I started over after my leave of absence. Prior to this, a student could be on academic probation the second semester of the 1L year if they had a certain gpa. I don't have the exact number handy but it was rather low. They did away with that provision and students were dismissed without a chance to pull themselves back up. They also raised the minimum gpa significantly. Again, I don't have the exact number at hand, but it was a significant jump. So, unfortunately, I do anticipate a good deal of resistance. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:50 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > Possibly, assuming that the print materials are available on Westlaw and Lexis. I suppose they could also offer you a "qualified reader," although that would be far more burdensome for them and obviously far less efficient for you. You may just have to approach them with the suggestion of using Westlaw and Lexis and explain why the alternatives would be unworkable and see what they say. I have a feeling you will get some resistance, since it is very likely that the library doesn't have the unilateral ability to allow members of the public to use these services. There may also be significant differences between the materials available on Westlaw and Lexis and those available in print in the library. Perhaps I would request Westlaw/Lexis access but say that, in the alternative, you would need the print materials you found in your research to be given to you in electronic format and possibly some research assistance, depending on how easy it is to find what you're looking for without being able to read any part of the print materials. If they say no to both suggestions without providing an alternative, then they're not engaging in the interactive process, which is a problem for them. > > >> On 8/27/2019 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >> >> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>> >>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>> >>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>> >>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> George: >>>>> >>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>> >>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>>>> >>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>>>>>> Public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>>>>>> student. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 19:54:45 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 15:54:45 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: Thank you Nandini for that suggestion. I was not aware there was such an option. Had I utilized something like that while in school, it would be a violation and grounds for dismissal. I will look into this option now though. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > > Have you considered using Westlaw's reference attorneys via phone for research assistance? A few associates at my firm have done this sometimes when there are tech problems with firm-issued laptops. The reference attorneys can at the very least narrow your universe. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public > > [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > > > > Hi Maura, > > I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. > > Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. > > Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind > > Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind > > With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. > > Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.🤔 > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Maura Kutnyak >> 716-563-9882 >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>> >>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>>> >>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>>> >>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>> >>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> George: >>>>>> >>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>> >>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>> operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>> what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>> access computer in the front of the library. With this, I have >>>>>>>> access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>> this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>> politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>> research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list >>>>>>>> for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>> want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face >>>>>>>> the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are >>>>>>>> additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I >>>>>>>> will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your >>>>>>>> assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>> filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I >>>>>>>> experienced there as a student. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>> receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>>> research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal >>>>>>>> research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so >>>>>>>> much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I >>>>>>>> would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>> with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them >>>>>>>> info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it >>>>>>>> if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I >>>>>>>> ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira >>>>>>>> subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>> file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to >>>>>>>> relate it back to the issues I had as a student? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>> been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be >>>>>>>> done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very >>>>>>>> apprehensive to approach them with this request. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2 >>>>>>>> 540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C >>>>>>>> fbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1 >>>>>>>> 658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xE >>>>>>>> qvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>> get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2 >>>>>>>> 540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu >>>>>>>> %7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841 >>>>>>>> be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JK >>>>>>>> U2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbc >>>>>> global.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40 >>>>>> gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40ya >>>>> hoo.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gm >>>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai >> l.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Aug 27 20:02:17 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:02:17 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: I think Westlaw reference attorneys are only available if you are an existing WL customer. If the law school actually would have expelled someone for calling a ref atty, well, wow, especially since all they do is provide you with a better search string. I use them all the time now. On 8/27/2019 3:54 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Thank you Nandini for that suggestion. I was not aware there was such an option. Had I utilized something like that while in school, it would be a violation and grounds for dismissal. I will look into this option now though. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Have you considered using Westlaw's reference attorneys via phone for research assistance? A few associates at my firm have done this sometimes when there are tech problems with firm-issued laptops. The reference attorneys can at the very least narrow your universe. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >> >> [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. >> >> >> >> Hi Maura, >> >> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. >> >> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. >> >> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >> >> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >> >> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. >> >> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.???? >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Maura Kutnyak >>> 716-563-9882 >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>> >>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>> >>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> George: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>> operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>> what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>> access computer in the front of the library. With this, I have >>>>>>>>> access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>> this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>> politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>> research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list >>>>>>>>> for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>> want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face >>>>>>>>> the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are >>>>>>>>> additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I >>>>>>>>> will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your >>>>>>>>> assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>> filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I >>>>>>>>> experienced there as a student. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>> receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>>>> research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal >>>>>>>>> research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so >>>>>>>>> much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I >>>>>>>>> would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>> with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them >>>>>>>>> info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it >>>>>>>>> if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I >>>>>>>>> ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira >>>>>>>>> subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>> file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to >>>>>>>>> relate it back to the issues I had as a student? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>> been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be >>>>>>>>> done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very >>>>>>>>> apprehensive to approach them with this request. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2 >>>>>>>>> 540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C >>>>>>>>> fbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1 >>>>>>>>> 658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xE >>>>>>>>> qvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>> get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2 >>>>>>>>> 540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu >>>>>>>>> %7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841 >>>>>>>>> be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JK >>>>>>>>> U2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbc >>>>>>> global.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40 >>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40ya >>>>>> hoo.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai >>> l.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From NSingh at cov.com Tue Aug 27 20:08:47 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 20:08:47 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: <29891526be744baaa31c3723b59ba0e2@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> Point taken. I actually am not really sure. Technically, law students are not customers, as their subscriptions are free. The law school would have its own subscription separate from the ones given to the students--at least, that was my setup. It may be worth giving it a shot in any event. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of James T. Fetter via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 4:02 PM To: Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Cc: James T. Fetter Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. I think Westlaw reference attorneys are only available if you are an existing WL customer. If the law school actually would have expelled someone for calling a ref atty, well, wow, especially since all they do is provide you with a better search string. I use them all the time now. On 8/27/2019 3:54 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Thank you Nandini for that suggestion. I was not aware there was such an option. Had I utilized something like that while in school, it would be a violation and grounds for dismissal. I will look into this option now though. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Have you considered using Westlaw's reference attorneys via phone for research assistance? A few associates at my firm have done this sometimes when there are tech problems with firm-issued laptops. The reference attorneys can at the very least narrow your universe. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >> Open to the Public >> >> [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. >> >> >> >> Hi Maura, >> >> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. >> >> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. >> >> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >> >> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >> >> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. >> >> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.???? >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Maura Kutnyak >>> 716-563-9882 >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>> >>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>> >>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> George: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>> Library Open to the Public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>> operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant >>>>>>>>> County Administrator about my access to the library materials. >>>>>>>>> He asked what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>> access computer in the front of the library. With this, I have >>>>>>>>> access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority >>>>>>>>> solves this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>> Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>> politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>> research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list >>>>>>>>> for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. >>>>>>>>> I want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I >>>>>>>>> face the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are >>>>>>>>> additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, >>>>>>>>> I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need >>>>>>>>> your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open >>>>>>>>> to the public, >>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>> filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I >>>>>>>>> experienced there as a student. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>> receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant >>>>>>>>> legal research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal >>>>>>>>> research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so >>>>>>>>> much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I >>>>>>>>> would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a >>>>>>>>> computer with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have >>>>>>>>> sent them info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would >>>>>>>>> utilize it if they ever had another blind student in the >>>>>>>>> future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>> file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to >>>>>>>>> relate it back to the issues I had as a student? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I >>>>>>>>> have been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs >>>>>>>>> to be done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been >>>>>>>>> very apprehensive to approach them with this request. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F >>>>>>>>> %2 >>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&dat >>>>>>>>> a= >>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d7 >>>>>>>>> 26 >>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370199458 >>>>>>>>> 86 >>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkD >>>>>>>>> BE %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F >>>>>>>>> %2 >>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw >>>>>>>>> %2 >>>>>>>>> 540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu% >>>>>>>>> 7C >>>>>>>>> fbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841b >>>>>>>>> e1 >>>>>>>>> 658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8 >>>>>>>>> xE qvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F >>>>>>>>> %2 >>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&dat >>>>>>>>> a= >>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d7 >>>>>>>>> 26 >>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370199458 >>>>>>>>> 86 >>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkD >>>>>>>>> BE %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F >>>>>>>>> %2 >>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja >>>>>>>>> %2 >>>>>>>>> 540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.e >>>>>>>>> du >>>>>>>>> %7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd38 >>>>>>>>> 41 >>>>>>>>> be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9 >>>>>>>>> JK U2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir >>>>>>>> %4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40s >>>>>>> bc >>>>>>> global.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir% >>>>>>> 40 >>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40 >>>>>> ya >>>>>> hoo.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40 >>>>> gm >>>>> ail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak% >>>> 40 >>>> gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gm >>> ai >>> l.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.co >> m _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gma >> il.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo > .com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 20:09:42 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:09:42 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> Message-ID: <716CE607-8102-468B-9420-20269B8D5ED4@gmail.com> We were to have no outside assistance for research. Not even another student. Not even a stranger with no legal knowledge. None! Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:02 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > I think Westlaw reference attorneys are only available if you are an existing WL customer. If the law school actually would have expelled someone for calling a ref atty, well, wow, especially since all they do is provide you with a better search string. I use them all the time now. > > >> On 8/27/2019 3:54 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Thank you Nandini for that suggestion. I was not aware there was such an option. Had I utilized something like that while in school, it would be a violation and grounds for dismissal. I will look into this option now though. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Have you considered using Westlaw's reference attorneys via phone for research assistance? A few associates at my firm have done this sometimes when there are tech problems with firm-issued laptops. The reference attorneys can at the very least narrow your universe. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>> >>> [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Maura, >>> >>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. >>> >>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. >>> >>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>> >>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>> >>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. >>> >>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.???? >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>> 716-563-9882 >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>> >>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>> operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>> what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>> access computer in the front of the library. With this, I have >>>>>>>>>> access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>> this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>> politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>> research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list >>>>>>>>>> for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>> want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face >>>>>>>>>> the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are >>>>>>>>>> additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I >>>>>>>>>> will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your >>>>>>>>>> assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I >>>>>>>>>> experienced there as a student. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>> receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>>>>> research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal >>>>>>>>>> research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so >>>>>>>>>> much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I >>>>>>>>>> would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>> with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them >>>>>>>>>> info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it >>>>>>>>>> if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I >>>>>>>>>> ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira >>>>>>>>>> subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>> file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to >>>>>>>>>> relate it back to the issues I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>> been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be >>>>>>>>>> done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very >>>>>>>>>> apprehensive to approach them with this request. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2 >>>>>>>>>> 540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C >>>>>>>>>> fbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1 >>>>>>>>>> 658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xE >>>>>>>>>> qvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>> get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2 >>>>>>>>>> 540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu >>>>>>>>>> %7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841 >>>>>>>>>> be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JK >>>>>>>>>> U2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%4 >>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbc >>>>>>>> global.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40 >>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40ya >>>>>>> hoo.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai >>>> l.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From NSingh at cov.com Tue Aug 27 20:13:57 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 20:13:57 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <716CE607-8102-468B-9420-20269B8D5ED4@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> <716CE607-8102-468B-9420-20269B8D5ED4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1b9755bdbe3d4419a57ef7683a649e20@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> This seems unreasonable, especially when you are initially learning how to conduct legal research effectively. I know I had a couple of training sessions with our Westlaw reps in addition to swapping techniques with classmates. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 4:10 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. We were to have no outside assistance for research. Not even another student. Not even a stranger with no legal knowledge. None! Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:02 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > I think Westlaw reference attorneys are only available if you are an existing WL customer. If the law school actually would have expelled someone for calling a ref atty, well, wow, especially since all they do is provide you with a better search string. I use them all the time now. > > >> On 8/27/2019 3:54 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Thank you Nandini for that suggestion. I was not aware there was such an option. Had I utilized something like that while in school, it would be a violation and grounds for dismissal. I will look into this option now though. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Have you considered using Westlaw's reference attorneys via phone for research assistance? A few associates at my firm have done this sometimes when there are tech problems with firm-issued laptops. The reference attorneys can at the very least narrow your universe. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>> Open to the Public >>> >>> [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Maura, >>> >>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. >>> >>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. >>> >>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>> >>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>> >>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. >>> >>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.???? >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>> 716-563-9882 >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>> >>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>>> Library Open to the Public >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>> operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant >>>>>>>>>> County Administrator about my access to the library >>>>>>>>>> materials. He asked what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>> access computer in the front of the library. With this, I >>>>>>>>>> have access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority >>>>>>>>>> solves this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>> Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>>>>> Library Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>> politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>> research very soon. I have requested assistance from this >>>>>>>>>> list for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. >>>>>>>>>> I want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I >>>>>>>>>> face the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are >>>>>>>>>> additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, >>>>>>>>>> I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need >>>>>>>>>> your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open >>>>>>>>>> to the public, >>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I >>>>>>>>>> experienced there as a student. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>> receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant >>>>>>>>>> legal research? I need to visit a law library to do some >>>>>>>>>> legal research. The closest one is the school I attended and >>>>>>>>>> had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a >>>>>>>>>> computer with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have >>>>>>>>>> sent them info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they >>>>>>>>>> would utilize it if they ever had another blind student in >>>>>>>>>> the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do >>>>>>>>>> not have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can >>>>>>>>>> I file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to >>>>>>>>>> relate it back to the issues I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I >>>>>>>>>> have been very hesitent to do the research but it really >>>>>>>>>> needs to be done. Most everything was a fight with them. I >>>>>>>>>> have been very apprehensive to approach them with this request. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 >>>>>>>>>> F%2 >>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&da >>>>>>>>>> ta= >>>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d >>>>>>>>>> 726 >>>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945 >>>>>>>>>> 886 >>>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrk >>>>>>>>>> DBE %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 >>>>>>>>>> F%2 >>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmla >>>>>>>>>> w%2 >>>>>>>>>> 540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu >>>>>>>>>> %7C >>>>>>>>>> fbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841 >>>>>>>>>> be1 >>>>>>>>>> 658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S >>>>>>>>>> 8xE qvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 >>>>>>>>>> F%2 >>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&da >>>>>>>>>> ta= >>>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d >>>>>>>>>> 726 >>>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945 >>>>>>>>>> 886 >>>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrk >>>>>>>>>> DBE %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2 >>>>>>>>>> F%2 >>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezj >>>>>>>>>> a%2 >>>>>>>>>> 540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward. >>>>>>>>>> edu >>>>>>>>>> %7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3 >>>>>>>>>> 841 >>>>>>>>>> be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p >>>>>>>>>> 9JK U2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildhei >>>>>>>>> r%4 >>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40 >>>>>>>> sbc >>>>>>>> global.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir >>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%4 >>>>>>> 0ya >>>>>>> hoo.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%4 >>>>>> 0gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak >>>>> %40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40g >>>> mai >>>> l.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.c >>> om _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gm >>> ail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yaho >> o.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai > l.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Aug 27 20:17:23 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:17:23 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <716CE607-8102-468B-9420-20269B8D5ED4@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> <716CE607-8102-468B-9420-20269B8D5ED4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <05843275-4833-ef4d-40c9-b3947f9ec376@yahoo.com> Was that across the board or only for certain classes? I always found such restrictions stupid and irksome, since so much of practice is learning what to do on one's own and what to delegate. In any case, that restriction wouldn't apply now. On 8/27/2019 4:09 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > We were to have no outside assistance for research. Not even another student. Not even a stranger with no legal knowledge. None! > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:02 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I think Westlaw reference attorneys are only available if you are an existing WL customer. If the law school actually would have expelled someone for calling a ref atty, well, wow, especially since all they do is provide you with a better search string. I use them all the time now. >> >> >>> On 8/27/2019 3:54 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Thank you Nandini for that suggestion. I was not aware there was such an option. Had I utilized something like that while in school, it would be a violation and grounds for dismissal. I will look into this option now though. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Have you considered using Westlaw's reference attorneys via phone for research assistance? A few associates at my firm have done this sometimes when there are tech problems with firm-issued laptops. The reference attorneys can at the very least narrow your universe. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>>> >>>> [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Maura, >>>> >>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. >>>> >>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. >>>> >>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>> >>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>> >>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. >>>> >>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.???? >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>> >>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>> operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>>> what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>> access computer in the front of the library. With this, I have >>>>>>>>>>> access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>> this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>> politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>> research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list >>>>>>>>>>> for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>> want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face >>>>>>>>>>> the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are >>>>>>>>>>> additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I >>>>>>>>>>> will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your >>>>>>>>>>> assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I >>>>>>>>>>> experienced there as a student. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>> receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>>>>>> research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal >>>>>>>>>>> research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so >>>>>>>>>>> much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I >>>>>>>>>>> would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them >>>>>>>>>>> info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it >>>>>>>>>>> if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I >>>>>>>>>>> ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira >>>>>>>>>>> subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>>> file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to >>>>>>>>>>> relate it back to the issues I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>>> been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be >>>>>>>>>>> done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very >>>>>>>>>>> apprehensive to approach them with this request. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2 >>>>>>>>>>> 540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C >>>>>>>>>>> fbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1 >>>>>>>>>>> 658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xE >>>>>>>>>>> qvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2 >>>>>>>>>>> 540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu >>>>>>>>>>> %7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841 >>>>>>>>>>> be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JK >>>>>>>>>>> U2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%4 >>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbc >>>>>>>>> global.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40 >>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40ya >>>>>>>> hoo.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40 >>>>>> gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From awildheir at gmail.com Tue Aug 27 21:08:29 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:08:29 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <05843275-4833-ef4d-40c9-b3947f9ec376@yahoo.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> <716CE607-8102-468B-9420-20269B8D5ED4@gmail.com> <05843275-4833-ef4d-40c9-b3947f9ec376@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <29F1754B-1DDD-4D0F-A89E-8014D758A50F@gmail.com> Nandi I, Our first semester included legal writing, legal methods, in which we had to write a 30 page judicial opinion. They had sessions to teach you how to use lexis and west law, pretty much the basics, but after that when the preparation started for the J O, you could not seek any outside help at all for anything. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:17 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > Was that across the board or only for certain classes? I always found such restrictions stupid and irksome, since so much of practice is learning what to do on one's own and what to delegate. In any case, that restriction wouldn't apply now. > > >> On 8/27/2019 4:09 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> We were to have no outside assistance for research. Not even another student. Not even a stranger with no legal knowledge. None! >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:02 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I think Westlaw reference attorneys are only available if you are an existing WL customer. If the law school actually would have expelled someone for calling a ref atty, well, wow, especially since all they do is provide you with a better search string. I use them all the time now. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/27/2019 3:54 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Thank you Nandini for that suggestion. I was not aware there was such an option. Had I utilized something like that while in school, it would be a violation and grounds for dismissal. I will look into this option now though. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Have you considered using Westlaw's reference attorneys via phone for research assistance? A few associates at my firm have done this sometimes when there are tech problems with firm-issued laptops. The reference attorneys can at the very least narrow your universe. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>>>> >>>>> [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>> >>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. >>>>> >>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. >>>>> >>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>> >>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>> >>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.???? >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>> operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>>>> what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>>> access computer in the front of the library. With this, I have >>>>>>>>>>>> access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>>> this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>>> research very soon. I have requested assistance from this list >>>>>>>>>>>> for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>>> want to be fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face >>>>>>>>>>>> the expected resistance for accommodations. If there are >>>>>>>>>>>> additional details needed to effectively answer my questions, I >>>>>>>>>>>> will be glad to provide for clarification. I really do need your >>>>>>>>>>>> assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR complaint that possibly includes prior issues I >>>>>>>>>>>> experienced there as a student. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>> receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>>>>>>> research? I need to visit a law library to do some legal >>>>>>>>>>>> research. The closest one is the school I attended and had so >>>>>>>>>>>> much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I go, I >>>>>>>>>>>> would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them >>>>>>>>>>>> info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they would utilize it >>>>>>>>>>>> if they ever had another blind student in the future. Could I >>>>>>>>>>>> ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not have a paid Aira >>>>>>>>>>>> subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>>>> file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>> relate it back to the issues I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>>>> been very hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be >>>>>>>>>>>> done. Most everything was a fight with them. I have been very >>>>>>>>>>>> apprehensive to approach them with this request. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2 >>>>>>>>>>>> 540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7C >>>>>>>>>>>> fbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1 >>>>>>>>>>>> 658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xE >>>>>>>>>>>> qvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data= >>>>>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d726 >>>>>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886 >>>>>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE >>>>>>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2 >>>>>>>>>>>> 540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu >>>>>>>>>>>> %7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841 >>>>>>>>>>>> be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JK >>>>>>>>>>>> U2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%4 >>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbc >>>>>>>>>> global.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40 >>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40ya >>>>>>>>> hoo.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40 >>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From NSingh at cov.com Tue Aug 27 21:58:24 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 21:58:24 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <29F1754B-1DDD-4D0F-A89E-8014D758A50F@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <32f8ed13885f40e5b051e69c91293727@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> <716CE607-8102-468B-9420-20269B8D5ED4@gmail.com> <05843275-4833-ef4d-40c9-b3947f9ec376@yahoo.com> <29F1754B-1DDD-4D0F-A89E-8014D758A50F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <90513bbb9cd64c5482ae68db32d9683c@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> Very well. I guess it is one pedagogical method, among others. It is not one that I experienced though. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 5:08 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Nandi I, Our first semester included legal writing, legal methods, in which we had to write a 30 page judicial opinion. They had sessions to teach you how to use lexis and west law, pretty much the basics, but after that when the preparation started for the J O, you could not seek any outside help at all for anything. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:17 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > Was that across the board or only for certain classes? I always found such restrictions stupid and irksome, since so much of practice is learning what to do on one's own and what to delegate. In any case, that restriction wouldn't apply now. > > >> On 8/27/2019 4:09 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> We were to have no outside assistance for research. Not even another student. Not even a stranger with no legal knowledge. None! >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 4:02 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I think Westlaw reference attorneys are only available if you are an existing WL customer. If the law school actually would have expelled someone for calling a ref atty, well, wow, especially since all they do is provide you with a better search string. I use them all the time now. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/27/2019 3:54 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Thank you Nandini for that suggestion. I was not aware there was such an option. Had I utilized something like that while in school, it would be a violation and grounds for dismissal. I will look into this option now though. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Have you considered using Westlaw's reference attorneys via phone for research assistance? A few associates at my firm have done this sometimes when there are tech problems with firm-issued laptops. The reference attorneys can at the very least narrow your universe. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>> Open to the Public >>>>> >>>>> [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>> >>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. >>>>> >>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. >>>>> >>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>> >>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>> >>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.???? >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>> Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>>>>> Library Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>> operated by the County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant >>>>>>>>>>>> County Administrator about my access to the library >>>>>>>>>>>> materials. He asked what could be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their >>>>>>>>>>>> public access computer in the front of the library. With >>>>>>>>>>>> this, I have access to every research platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority >>>>>>>>>>>> solves this type of issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>>>>>>> Library Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> politely asking for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of >>>>>>>>>>>> legal research very soon. I have requested assistance from >>>>>>>>>>>> this list for the below concerns. I expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below >>>>>>>>>>>> information. I want to be fully prepared to respond >>>>>>>>>>>> appropriately when I face the expected resistance for >>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>>> effectively answer my questions, I will be glad to provide >>>>>>>>>>>> for clarification. I really do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries >>>>>>>>>>>> open to the public, >>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied >>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations filing an OCR complaint that possibly >>>>>>>>>>>> includes prior issues I experienced there as a student. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>> receiving accommodations to permit them to do independant >>>>>>>>>>>> legal research? I need to visit a law library to do some >>>>>>>>>>>> legal research. The closest one is the school I attended >>>>>>>>>>>> and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>>> Before I go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a >>>>>>>>>>>> computer with JAWS and access to lexis and westlaw? I have >>>>>>>>>>>> sent them info on Aira since I was dismissed hoping they >>>>>>>>>>>> would utilize it if they ever had another blind student in >>>>>>>>>>>> the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I >>>>>>>>>>>> do not have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, >>>>>>>>>>>> can I file an OCR complaint for this incident? Is it >>>>>>>>>>>> possible to relate it back to the issues I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I >>>>>>>>>>>> have been very hesitent to do the research but it really >>>>>>>>>>>> needs to be done. Most everything was a fight with them. I >>>>>>>>>>>> have been very apprehensive to approach them with this request. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A >>>>>>>>>>>> %2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org& >>>>>>>>>>>> data= >>>>>>>>>>>> 02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e40 >>>>>>>>>>>> 8d726 >>>>>>>>>>>> 44043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C6370199 >>>>>>>>>>>> 45886 >>>>>>>>>>>> 391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxT >>>>>>>>>>>> rkDBE %3D&reserved=0= To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A >>>>>>>>>>>> %2F%2 >>>>>>>>>>>> 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0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw% >>>>>>>>>> 40sbc >>>>>>>>>> global.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildhe >>>>>>>>>> ir%40 >>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> 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gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%4 >>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov >>>>> .com _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40ya >>>> hoo.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gm >>> ail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yaho >> o.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmai > l.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Tue Aug 27 22:12:15 2019 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 22:12:15 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Amy, I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy to find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each state has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational rehabilitation services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational rehabilitation agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational rehabilitation services for your particular state. Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of what you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being able to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they are not able to gain access to it using the databases. I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or university before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly with the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance before assuming you will encounter problems with them. It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly people in one department of a college or university that it does not automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working with other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to give the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be willing to work with you. As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or NVDA on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that is willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site access since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or is there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if there is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free and the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. Warm regards, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Aimee Harwood Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public Hi Maura, I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.🤔 Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: > > Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? > > Sincerely, > > Maura Kutnyak > 716-563-9882 > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >> >> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>> >>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>> >>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>> >>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> George: >>>>> >>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>> >>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>>>> >>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>>>>>> Public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>>>>>> student. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 09:20:58 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 05:20:58 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and westlaw. I do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope to be met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical behavior. Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who gave me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there is a different person handling accommodations for the public than the person who handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. Until now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i might need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant to my situation. Thus the need for case law. As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability of the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the suggestion. It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the future due to their inability to provide services based on administrative burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira because they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello Amy, > > I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy to find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each state has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational rehabilitation services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational rehabilitation agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational rehabilitation services for your particular state. > > Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of what you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being able to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they are not able to gain access to it using the databases. > > I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or university before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly with the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance before assuming you will encounter problems with them. > > It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly people in one department of a college or university that it does not automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working with other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to give the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be willing to work with you. > > As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or NVDA on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that is willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. > > Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site access since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or is there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if there is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free and the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. > > I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. > > Warm regards, > Elizabeth > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Aimee Harwood > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public > > Hi Maura, > > I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more than a couple weeks. > > Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot do. > > Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind > > Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind > > With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to lexis and westlaw. > > Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a situation such as this would be.🤔 > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Maura Kutnyak >> 716-563-9882 >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>> >>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print materials? >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to their services available to the public and possibly asking them to breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their policies. They only give access to free resources for the general public. >>>>> >>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the back of your Widener ID card. >>>>> >>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>> >>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an accommodation? >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> George: >>>>>> >>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their solution. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public >>>>>> >>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated by the >>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a difference. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked what could >>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed JAWS. >>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access computer >>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every research >>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves this type of >>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the >>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely asking >>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal research very >>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below concerns. I >>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this research. >>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I want to be >>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected resistance >>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to effectively >>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I really >>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts and or >>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to the public, >>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations filing an OCR >>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there as a >>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I need to >>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is the school >>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. Before I >>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the library as a >>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer with JAWS >>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira since I was >>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another blind >>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? I do not >>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. So that >>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file an OCR >>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to the issues >>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have been very >>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most everything >>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach them with >>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From seifs at umich.edu Wed Aug 28 14:34:39 2019 From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 10:34:39 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! Message-ID: Hello all, I hope you are well. This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations on the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked the use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security grounds) to take and record answers and notes. (See below message). I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for response or reconsideration. Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, thoughts, experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. Please respond at your earliest convenience. Thank you, most sincerely. ... Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has bluetooth and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional and turned off, in any case, during the exam. After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my documentation stating that I have been using an electronic braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it for undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it on multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is part of my university-granted testing accommodations. They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks them. (I pasted there email below for context.) I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for reading the exam). Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. ... NCBE email: ... Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as well as a SD card slot and ports. Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off or possibly nonfunctional. As noted on the NCBE website at https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org, NCBE is committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable modifications to policies, practices, and procedures that might otherwise prevent individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE in an accessible place or manner, provided such modifications do not result in a fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an undue burden, or jeopardize examination security. If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the examinee at the end of the examination. To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website at https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. On the form, please state the name of the device or item you would like us to consider, along with the model number if applicable. The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or a courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing the deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive process of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break • Private room • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer sheet • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS Sincerely, MPRE Test Accommodation Services National Conference of Bar Examiners 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | mpre.ada at ncbex.org Website: https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org From laura.wolk at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 15:01:34 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 11:01:34 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," he or she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two very different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the confusion. If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, which has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship one to be used on the exam. Laura Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello all, > > I hope you are well. > > This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations on > the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am > wondering if you are able to advise or > assist in contesting an NCBE accommodations decision, where NCBE > first approved and now revoked the use of an electronic braillewriter > (allegedly on security grounds) to take and record answers and > notes. (See below message). > > I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. > I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet > they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for > response or reconsideration. > > Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, thoughts, > experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. > Please respond at your earliest convenience. > Thank you, most sincerely. > > ... > Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to > write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming > from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession > (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they > asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. > I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has bluetooth > and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional and turned > off, in any case, during the exam. > After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, > meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, > or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to > the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. > > As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my > documentation stating that I have been using an electronic > braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; > that I use it for undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; > that I used it on multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; > and that it is part of my university-granted testing > accommodations. > > They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; > I appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. > Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is > providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more > connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes > or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks > them. > (I pasted there email below for context.) > > I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? > > I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations > granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the > braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for > reading the exam). > > Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. > Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. > > ... > > > NCBE email: > > ... > > Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of > Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows > CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter > is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as > well as a SD card slot and ports. > > Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular > model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic > Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store > or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the > examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off > or possibly nonfunctional. > > As noted on the NCBE website at > https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org, > NCBE is > committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to > examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for > accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act > Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable modifications > to policies, practices, and procedures that might otherwise prevent > individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE in an accessible > place or manner, provided such modifications do not result in a > fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an undue burden, or > jeopardize examination security. > > If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that > will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. > Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features > that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability > to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. > For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins > Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the > examinee at the end of the examination. > > To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare > Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an > Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website > at https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. > On the form, > please state the name of the device or item you would like us to > consider, along with the model number if applicable. > > The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative > accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the > November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 > p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ > deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or a > courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. > Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does > not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing the > deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or > documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests > are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the > risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive process > of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. > > Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place > for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: > > •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) > > • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break > > • Private room > > • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) > > • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer sheet > > • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS > > Sincerely, > MPRE Test Accommodation Services > National Conference of Bar Examiners > 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 > 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | > mpre.ada at ncbex.org > Website: https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From davant1958 at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 15:43:42 2019 From: davant1958 at gmail.com (davant1958 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 10:43:42 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> The other question I have is whether the student would be amenable to using a Braille Display which can be connected to a computer and used in conjunction with a screen reader? Denise R. Avant, Esq. President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois 773-991-8050 Live the life you want. For more information about NFBI, Go to www.nfbofillinois.org -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:02 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," he or she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two very different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the confusion. If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, which has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship one to be used on the exam. Laura Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello all, > > I hope you are well. > > This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations on > the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am > wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE > accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked the > use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security grounds) to > take and record answers and notes. (See below message). > > I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. > I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet > they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for > response or reconsideration. > > Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, thoughts, > experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. > Please respond at your earliest convenience. > Thank you, most sincerely. > > ... > Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to > write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming > from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession > (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they > asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. > I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has bluetooth > and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional and turned > off, in any case, during the exam. > After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, > meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, > or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to > the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. > > As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my > documentation stating that I have been using an electronic > braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it for > undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it on > multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is part > of my university-granted testing accommodations. > > They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I > appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. > Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is > providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more > connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes > or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks > them. > (I pasted there email below for context.) > > I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? > > I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations > granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the > braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for > reading the exam). > > Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. > Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. > > ... > > > NCBE email: > > ... > > Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of > Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows > CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter > is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as > well as a SD card slot and ports. > > Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular > model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic > Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store > or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the > examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off > or possibly nonfunctional. > > As noted on the NCBE website at > https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.o > rg x.org>, > NCBE is > committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to > examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for > accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act > Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable modifications > to policies, practices, and procedures that might otherwise prevent > individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE in an accessible > place or manner, provided such modifications do not result in a > fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an undue burden, or > jeopardize examination security. > > If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that > will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. > Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features > that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability > to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. > For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins > Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the > examinee at the end of the examination. > > To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare > Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an > Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website > at https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. > On the form, > please state the name of the device or item you would like us to > consider, along with the model number if applicable. > > The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative > accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the > November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 > p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ > deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or a > courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. > Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does > not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing the > deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or > documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests > are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the > risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive process > of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. > > Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place > for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: > > •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) > > • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break > > • Private room > > • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) > > • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer > sheet > > • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS > > Sincerely, > MPRE Test Accommodation Services > National Conference of Bar Examiners > 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 > 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | > mpre.ada at ncbex.org > Website: > https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.o > rg x.org> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gmail.com From seifs at umich.edu Wed Aug 28 15:50:06 2019 From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 11:50:06 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> References: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for your responses. Sorry--I am the student; it is, specifically, a braillenote; I would not mind using it when connected to the computer to display what I type on the screen, but NCBE is not allowing it altogether. Sincerely, Seif On 8/28/19, Denise Avant via BlindLaw wrote: > The other question I have is whether the student would be amenable to using > a Braille Display which can be connected to a computer and used in > conjunction with a screen reader? > > > Denise R. Avant, Esq. > President, > National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > 773-991-8050 > Live the life you want. > > For more information about NFBI, > Go to www.nfbofillinois.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via > BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:02 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information > Requested Please! > > What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? > > The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," he or > she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two very > different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the confusion. > > If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, which > has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship one to be > used on the exam. > > Laura > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> I hope you are well. >> >> This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations on >> the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am >> wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE >> accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked the >> use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security grounds) to >> take and record answers and notes. (See below message). >> >> I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. >> I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet >> they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for >> response or reconsideration. >> >> Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, thoughts, >> experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. >> Please respond at your earliest convenience. >> Thank you, most sincerely. >> >> ... >> Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to >> write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming >> from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession >> (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they >> asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. >> I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has bluetooth >> and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional and turned >> off, in any case, during the exam. >> After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, >> meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, >> or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to >> the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. >> >> As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my >> documentation stating that I have been using an electronic >> braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it for >> undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it on >> multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is part >> of my university-granted testing accommodations. >> >> They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I >> appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. >> Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is >> providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more >> connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes >> or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks >> them. >> (I pasted there email below for context.) >> >> I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? >> >> I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations >> granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the >> braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for >> reading the exam). >> >> Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. >> Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. >> >> ... >> >> >> NCBE email: >> >> ... >> >> Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of >> Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows >> CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter >> is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as >> well as a SD card slot and ports. >> >> Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular >> model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic >> Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store >> or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the >> examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off >> or possibly nonfunctional. >> >> As noted on the NCBE website at >> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.o >> rg> x.org>, >> NCBE is >> committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to >> examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for >> accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act >> Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable modifications >> to policies, practices, and procedures that might otherwise prevent >> individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE in an accessible >> place or manner, provided such modifications do not result in a >> fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an undue burden, or >> jeopardize examination security. >> >> If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that >> will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. >> Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features >> that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability >> to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. >> For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins >> Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the >> examinee at the end of the examination. >> >> To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare >> Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an >> Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website >> at >> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. >> On the form, >> please state the name of the device or item you would like us to >> consider, along with the model number if applicable. >> >> The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative >> accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the >> November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 >> p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ >> deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or a >> courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. >> Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does >> not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing the >> deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or >> documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests >> are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the >> risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive process >> of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. >> >> Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place >> for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: >> >> •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) >> >> • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break >> >> • Private room >> >> • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) >> >> • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer >> sheet >> >> • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS >> >> Sincerely, >> MPRE Test Accommodation Services >> National Conference of Bar Examiners >> 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 >> 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | >> mpre.ada at ncbex.org >> Website: >> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.o >> rg> x.org> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.edu > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 18:34:56 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:34:56 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention more advanced OCR software. I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience was nothing like this. Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might be a place to start. On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law > librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal > research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue > because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and westlaw. I > do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior > experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope to be > met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical behavior. > Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who gave > me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there is a > different person handling accommodations for the public than the person who > handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. > Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by > title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. Until > now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i might > need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 > > As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant to > my situation. Thus the need for case law. > > As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability of > the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the suggestion. > It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the > future due to their inability to provide services based on administrative > burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira because > they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Hello Amy, >> >> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy to >> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each state >> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational rehabilitation >> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational rehabilitation >> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >> >> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of what >> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it >> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem >> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being able >> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they are >> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >> >> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or university >> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly with >> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance before >> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >> >> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working with >> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to give >> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >> willing to work with you. >> >> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or NVDA >> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that is >> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >> >> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site access >> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or is >> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if there >> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free and >> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >> >> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >> >> Warm regards, >> Elizabeth >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >> Harwood via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Aimee Harwood >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to >> the Public >> >> Hi Maura, >> >> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate >> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth >> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire >> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more >> than a couple weeks. >> >> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot >> do. >> >> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >> >> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >> >> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >> lexis and westlaw. >> >> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a >> situation such as this would be.🤔 >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Maura Kutnyak >>> 716-563-9882 >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>> >>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material >>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>> materials? >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to >>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA >>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, >>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>> public. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of >>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school >>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the >>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>> >>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as >>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an >>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> George: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke >>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' >>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to >>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own >>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate >>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO >>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated >>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed >>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access >>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open >>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely >>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this >>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected >>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I >>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts >>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there >>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I >>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is >>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. >>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? >>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. >>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file >>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to >>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most >>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach >>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From wickps at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 18:58:13 2019 From: wickps at gmail.com (Paul Wick) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 11:58:13 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> Kelby, I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in general, but that’s just my guess. Paul Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. > > Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? > Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention > more advanced OCR software. > > I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep > for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like > an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience > was nothing like this. > > Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out > there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be > worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review > articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might > be a place to start. > > > >> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law >> librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal >> research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue >> because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and westlaw. I >> do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior >> experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope to be >> met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical behavior. >> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who gave >> me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there is a >> different person handling accommodations for the public than the person who >> handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by >> title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. Until >> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i might >> need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >> >> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant to >> my situation. Thus the need for case law. >> >> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability of >> the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the suggestion. >> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the >> future due to their inability to provide services based on administrative >> burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira because >> they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Amy, >>> >>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy to >>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each state >>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational rehabilitation >>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational rehabilitation >>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>> >>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of what >>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it >>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem >>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being able >>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they are >>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>> >>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or university >>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly with >>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance before >>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>> >>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working with >>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to give >>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>> willing to work with you. >>> >>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or NVDA >>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that is >>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>> >>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site access >>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or is >>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if there >>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free and >>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>> >>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to >>> the Public >>> >>> Hi Maura, >>> >>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate >>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth >>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire >>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more >>> than a couple weeks. >>> >>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot >>> do. >>> >>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>> >>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>> >>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>> lexis and westlaw. >>> >>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a >>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>> 716-563-9882 >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>> >>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material >>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>> materials? >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to >>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA >>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, >>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>> public. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of >>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school >>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the >>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as >>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an >>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke >>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' >>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to >>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own >>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate >>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO >>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated >>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed >>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access >>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open >>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely >>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this >>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected >>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I >>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts >>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there >>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I >>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is >>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. >>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? >>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. >>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file >>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to >>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most >>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach >>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 19:02:18 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 15:02:18 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C491B72-7175-48DD-A8A0-826132D6623B@gmail.com> Kelby, Thank you for the suggestions. As for the conversions, they felt they provided accessible materials because the PDFs were searchable. They did not have the administrative manpower to convert the books despite my assertion of its common practice even at the community college level. I provided the NFB's documentation on making documents accessible but they did not think they were required to do any more than a searchable pdf. I should have filed an ocr complaint from the beginning. I wish there was something I could do now. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. > > Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? > Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention > more advanced OCR software. > > I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep > for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like > an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience > was nothing like this. > > Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out > there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be > worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review > articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might > be a place to start. > > > >> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law >> librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal >> research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue >> because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and westlaw. I >> do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior >> experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope to be >> met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical behavior. >> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who gave >> me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there is a >> different person handling accommodations for the public than the person who >> handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by >> title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. Until >> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i might >> need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >> >> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant to >> my situation. Thus the need for case law. >> >> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability of >> the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the suggestion. >> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the >> future due to their inability to provide services based on administrative >> burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira because >> they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Amy, >>> >>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy to >>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each state >>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational rehabilitation >>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational rehabilitation >>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>> >>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of what >>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it >>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem >>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being able >>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they are >>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>> >>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or university >>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly with >>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance before >>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>> >>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working with >>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to give >>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>> willing to work with you. >>> >>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or NVDA >>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that is >>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>> >>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site access >>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or is >>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if there >>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free and >>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>> >>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to >>> the Public >>> >>> Hi Maura, >>> >>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate >>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth >>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire >>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more >>> than a couple weeks. >>> >>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot >>> do. >>> >>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>> >>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>> >>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>> lexis and westlaw. >>> >>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a >>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>> 716-563-9882 >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>> >>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material >>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>> materials? >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to >>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA >>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, >>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>> public. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of >>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school >>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the >>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as >>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an >>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke >>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' >>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to >>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own >>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate >>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO >>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated >>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed >>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access >>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open >>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely >>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this >>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected >>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I >>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts >>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there >>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I >>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is >>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. >>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? >>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. >>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file >>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to >>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most >>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach >>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From awildheir at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 19:15:18 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 15:15:18 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> Message-ID: <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> Paul and Kelby, We could not seek any outside help with any graded writing assignments. As for not converting books, that was across the board with all provided material. As long as it was a searchable pdf, it was sufficient. No headings or list identification for exams. They did not think they should follow the guidance of the NFB on accessible documents even though I provided the information as proof I was not asking for more than what was reasonable. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw wrote: > > Kelby, > > I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in general, but that’s just my guess. > > Paul > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. >> >> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? >> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention >> more advanced OCR software. >> >> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep >> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like >> an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience >> was nothing like this. >> >> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out >> there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be >> worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review >> articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might >> be a place to start. >> >> >> >>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law >>> librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal >>> research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue >>> because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and westlaw. I >>> do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior >>> experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope to be >>> met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical behavior. >>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who gave >>> me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there is a >>> different person handling accommodations for the public than the person who >>> handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by >>> title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. Until >>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i might >>> need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >>> >>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant to >>> my situation. Thus the need for case law. >>> >>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability of >>> the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the suggestion. >>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the >>> future due to their inability to provide services based on administrative >>> burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira because >>> they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Amy, >>>> >>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy to >>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each state >>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational rehabilitation >>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational rehabilitation >>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>>> >>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of what >>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it >>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem >>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being able >>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they are >>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>>> >>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or university >>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly with >>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance before >>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>>> >>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working with >>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to give >>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>>> willing to work with you. >>>> >>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or NVDA >>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that is >>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>>> >>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site access >>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or is >>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if there >>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free and >>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>>> >>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>>> >>>> Warm regards, >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to >>>> the Public >>>> >>>> Hi Maura, >>>> >>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate >>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth >>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire >>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more >>>> than a couple weeks. >>>> >>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot >>>> do. >>>> >>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>> >>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>> >>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>>> lexis and westlaw. >>>> >>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a >>>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>> >>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material >>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>>> materials? >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to >>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA >>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that, >>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>>> public. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of >>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school >>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the >>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as >>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an >>>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke >>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' >>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to >>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own >>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate >>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO >>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated >>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed >>>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access >>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open >>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely >>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this >>>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected >>>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I >>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts >>>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there >>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving >>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I >>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is >>>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access? >>>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment. >>>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file >>>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to >>>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most >>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach >>>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Wed Aug 28 19:30:24 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 15:30:24 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, a lot of times if they get the searchable PDF from the publisher, as my school frequently did, there would not be headings that would remain if the book was, for example, converted to HTML. That isn't the school's fault, necessarily, and it actually could take a lot of work for the school to add in all of it. I pretty much only used PDF books for my classes unless they were on Bookshare, and never had much of a problem. Which NFB documentation are you referring to? On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > Paul and Kelby, > > We could not seek any outside help with any graded writing assignments. As > for not converting books, that was across the board with all provided > material. As long as it was a searchable pdf, it was sufficient. No headings > or list identification for exams. They did not think they should follow the > guidance of the NFB on accessible documents even though I provided the > information as proof I was not asking for more than what was reasonable. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Kelby, >> >> I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called >> Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in >> general, but that’s just my guess. >> >> Paul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. >>> >>> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? >>> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention >>> more advanced OCR software. >>> >>> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep >>> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like >>> an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience >>> was nothing like this. >>> >>> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out >>> there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be >>> worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review >>> articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might >>> be a place to start. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law >>>> librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal >>>> research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue >>>> because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and >>>> westlaw. I >>>> do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior >>>> experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope >>>> to be >>>> met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical >>>> behavior. >>>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who >>>> gave >>>> me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there >>>> is a >>>> different person handling accommodations for the public than the person >>>> who >>>> handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >>>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by >>>> title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. >>>> Until >>>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i >>>> might >>>> need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >>>> >>>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant >>>> to >>>> my situation. Thus the need for case law. >>>> >>>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability >>>> of >>>> the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the >>>> suggestion. >>>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the >>>> future due to their inability to provide services based on >>>> administrative >>>> burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira >>>> because >>>> they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello Amy, >>>>> >>>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy >>>>> to >>>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each >>>>> state >>>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational >>>>> rehabilitation >>>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational >>>>> rehabilitation >>>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>>>> >>>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of >>>>> what >>>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it >>>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem >>>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being >>>>> able >>>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they >>>>> are >>>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>>>> >>>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or >>>>> university >>>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly >>>>> with >>>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance >>>>> before >>>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>>>> >>>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working >>>>> with >>>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to >>>>> give >>>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>>>> willing to work with you. >>>>> >>>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or >>>>> NVDA >>>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that >>>>> is >>>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site >>>>> access >>>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or >>>>> is >>>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if >>>>> there >>>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free >>>>> and >>>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>>>> >>>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>>>> >>>>> Warm regards, >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open >>>>> to >>>>> the Public >>>>> >>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>> >>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me >>>>> locate >>>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth >>>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire >>>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take >>>>> more >>>>> than a couple weeks. >>>>> >>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and >>>>> cannot >>>>> do. >>>>> >>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>> >>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>> >>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>>>> lexis and westlaw. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on >>>>> a >>>>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print >>>>>>> material >>>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>>>> materials? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or >>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on >>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>>>> public. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of >>>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law >>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they >>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' >>>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to >>>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are >>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my >>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to >>>>>>>>>>> authenticate >>>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. >>>>>>>>>>>> DO >>>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we >>>>>>>>>>>> discussed >>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>> Open >>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> politely >>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or >>>>>>>>>>>> two. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected >>>>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for >>>>>>>>>>>> clarification. I >>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any >>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced >>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>> receiving >>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding >>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira >>>>>>>>>>>> access? >>>>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the >>>>>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to >>>>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most >>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach >>>>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From seifs at umich.edu Thu Aug 29 03:31:08 2019 From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 23:31:08 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> Message-ID: Another question:how many people have applied for and been granted the use of a braillenote for the actual bar exam? I ask because I do not wish to jeopardize future accommodations. Please help--thank you. On 8/28/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > Well, a lot of times if they get the searchable PDF from the > publisher, as my school frequently did, there would not be headings > that would remain if the book was, for example, converted to HTML. > That isn't the school's fault, necessarily, and it actually could take > a lot of work for the school to add in all of it. I pretty much only > used PDF books for my classes unless they were on Bookshare, and > never had much of a problem. > > Which NFB documentation are you referring to? > > > > On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Paul and Kelby, >> >> We could not seek any outside help with any graded writing assignments. As >> for not converting books, that was across the board with all provided >> material. As long as it was a searchable pdf, it was sufficient. No >> headings >> or list identification for exams. They did not think they should follow >> the >> guidance of the NFB on accessible documents even though I provided the >> information as proof I was not asking for more than what was reasonable. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Kelby, >>> >>> I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called >>> Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in >>> general, but that’s just my guess. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. >>>> >>>> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? >>>> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention >>>> more advanced OCR software. >>>> >>>> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep >>>> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like >>>> an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience >>>> was nothing like this. >>>> >>>> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out >>>> there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be >>>> worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review >>>> articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might >>>> be a place to start. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law >>>>> librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about >>>>> legal >>>>> research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue >>>>> because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and >>>>> westlaw. I >>>>> do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on >>>>> prior >>>>> experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope >>>>> to be >>>>> met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical >>>>> behavior. >>>>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who >>>>> gave >>>>> me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there >>>>> is a >>>>> different person handling accommodations for the public than the person >>>>> who >>>>> handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something >>>>> here. >>>>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered >>>>> by >>>>> title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. >>>>> Until >>>>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i >>>>> might >>>>> need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >>>>> >>>>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents >>>>> relevant >>>>> to >>>>> my situation. Thus the need for case law. >>>>> >>>>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability >>>>> of >>>>> the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the >>>>> suggestion. >>>>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in >>>>> the >>>>> future due to their inability to provide services based on >>>>> administrative >>>>> burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira >>>>> because >>>>> they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Amy, >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>>>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather >>>>>> easy >>>>>> to >>>>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each >>>>>> state >>>>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational >>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational >>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>>>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of >>>>>> what >>>>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that >>>>>> it >>>>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would >>>>>> seem >>>>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being >>>>>> able >>>>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they >>>>>> are >>>>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or >>>>>> university >>>>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly >>>>>> with >>>>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance >>>>>> before >>>>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>>>>> >>>>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>>>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>>>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working >>>>>> with >>>>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to >>>>>> give >>>>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>>>>> willing to work with you. >>>>>> >>>>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>>>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>>>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or >>>>>> NVDA >>>>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that >>>>>> is >>>>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>>>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site >>>>>> access >>>>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or >>>>>> is >>>>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>>>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if >>>>>> there >>>>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free >>>>>> and >>>>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>>>>> >>>>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>>>>> >>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>> Open >>>>>> to >>>>>> the Public >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>>> >>>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me >>>>>> locate >>>>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting >>>>>> in-depth >>>>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the >>>>>> entire >>>>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take >>>>>> more >>>>>> than a couple weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and >>>>>> cannot >>>>>> do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>>>>> lexis and westlaw. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on >>>>>> a >>>>>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print >>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>>>>> materials? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental >>>>>>>>> alteration" >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or >>>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on >>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>>>>> public. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law >>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they >>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested >>>>>>>>>>> parties' >>>>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are >>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>>>>>> Library >>>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my >>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to >>>>>>>>>>>> authenticate >>>>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. >>>>>>>>>>>>> DO >>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant >>>>>>>>>>>>> County >>>>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked >>>>>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussed >>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>>> Open >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> politely >>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or >>>>>>>>>>>>> two. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct >>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the >>>>>>>>>>>>> expected >>>>>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for >>>>>>>>>>>>> clarification. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any >>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced >>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>>> receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>>>>>>>> research? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a >>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>> access? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Most >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to >>>>>>>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.edu > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu From amarjain at amarjain.com Thu Aug 29 04:02:38 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 09:32:38 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] Word crash only with Jaws in large documents Message-ID: <3BE6D64B-3195-4F94-8BB2-840451A92004@amarjain.com> Hi all, Using MS Office 2016 in Windows Server 2016 with Citrix Xen app. While converting documents through Fine Reader which needs to retain headers and footers of the VDR, the resulting word document goes in not responding state as soon as we navigate to next page. As indicated, it only happens while Jaws is running and not with Narrator / NVDA. I have also tried to save this into pdf / html from Word file, but word is just creating another docx file. If anyone has been through this and can share a workable solution, then it would be of great help. Thank you. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone From NSingh at cov.com Thu Aug 29 12:46:34 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 12:46:34 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> Message-ID: I took the New York bar with a Braille note taker, electronic version of the exam loaded onto a laptop, extra time, and a scribe. The bar exam was a surprisingly pleasant experience in terms of getting accommodations. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:31 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Another question:how many people have applied for and been granted the use of a braillenote for the actual bar exam? I ask because I do not wish to jeopardize future accommodations. Please help--thank you. On 8/28/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > Well, a lot of times if they get the searchable PDF from the > publisher, as my school frequently did, there would not be headings > that would remain if the book was, for example, converted to HTML. > That isn't the school's fault, necessarily, and it actually could take > a lot of work for the school to add in all of it. I pretty much only > used PDF books for my classes unless they were on Bookshare, and > never had much of a problem. > > Which NFB documentation are you referring to? > > > > On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Paul and Kelby, >> >> We could not seek any outside help with any graded writing >> assignments. As for not converting books, that was across the board >> with all provided material. As long as it was a searchable pdf, it >> was sufficient. No headings or list identification for exams. They >> did not think they should follow the guidance of the NFB on >> accessible documents even though I provided the information as proof >> I was not asking for more than what was reasonable. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Kelby, >>> >>> I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called >>> Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in >>> general, but that’s just my guess. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. >>>> >>>> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? >>>> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to >>>> mention more advanced OCR software. >>>> >>>> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep >>>> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds >>>> like an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my >>>> experience was nothing like this. >>>> >>>> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law >>>> out there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might >>>> also be worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law >>>> review articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and >>>> it might be a place to start. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the >>>>> law librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned >>>>> about legal research there, they skipped over the print materials >>>>> and the catalogue because I would be able to find everything I >>>>> needed on lexis and westlaw. I do not assume, per se, to >>>>> experience resistance. However, based on prior experience, I >>>>> suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope to be met >>>>> with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical >>>>> behavior. >>>>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people >>>>> who gave me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think >>>>> about it, there is a different person handling accommodations for >>>>> the public than the person who handles accommodations for >>>>> students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >>>>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is >>>>> covered by title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific >>>>> title IX person. >>>>> Until >>>>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students >>>>> but i might need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >>>>> >>>>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents >>>>> relevant to my situation. Thus the need for case law. >>>>> >>>>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and >>>>> availability of the site access program. I highly doubt they have >>>>> moved on the suggestion. >>>>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student >>>>> in the future due to their inability to provide services based on >>>>> administrative burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access >>>>> Location for Aira because they will not have a need or compelling >>>>> reason to do it. >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Amy, >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>>>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather >>>>>> easy >>>>>> to >>>>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each >>>>>> state >>>>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational >>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational >>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>>>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of >>>>>> what >>>>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that >>>>>> it >>>>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would >>>>>> seem >>>>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being >>>>>> able >>>>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they >>>>>> are >>>>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or >>>>>> university >>>>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly >>>>>> with >>>>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance >>>>>> before >>>>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>>>>> >>>>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>>>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>>>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working >>>>>> with >>>>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to >>>>>> give >>>>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>>>>> willing to work with you. >>>>>> >>>>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>>>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>>>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or >>>>>> NVDA >>>>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that >>>>>> is >>>>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>>>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site >>>>>> access >>>>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or >>>>>> is >>>>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>>>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if >>>>>> there >>>>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free >>>>>> and >>>>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>>>>> >>>>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>>>>> >>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>> Open >>>>>> to >>>>>> the Public >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>>> >>>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me >>>>>> locate >>>>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting >>>>>> in-depth >>>>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the >>>>>> entire >>>>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take >>>>>> more >>>>>> than a couple weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and >>>>>> cannot >>>>>> do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>>>>> lexis and westlaw. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on >>>>>> a >>>>>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print >>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>>>>> materials? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental >>>>>>>>> alteration" >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or >>>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on >>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>>>>> public. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law >>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they >>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested >>>>>>>>>>> parties' >>>>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are >>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>>>>>> Library >>>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my >>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to >>>>>>>>>>>> authenticate >>>>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. >>>>>>>>>>>>> DO >>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant >>>>>>>>>>>>> County >>>>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked >>>>>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussed >>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>>> Open >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> politely >>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or >>>>>>>>>>>>> two. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct >>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the >>>>>>>>>>>>> expected >>>>>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for >>>>>>>>>>>>> clarification. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any >>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced >>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>>> receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>>>>>>>> research? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a >>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>> access? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Most >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to >>>>>>>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> 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https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.edu > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 13:03:48 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 09:03:48 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> Message-ID: I didn't use a BrailleNote, but I didn't ask for one. The bar was actually very nice; they even let me use my own laptops The MPRE was a lot more trouble; they wouldn't let me take the test on the computer.. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > > I took the New York bar with a Braille note taker, electronic version of the exam loaded onto a laptop, extra time, and a scribe. The bar exam was a surprisingly pleasant experience in terms of getting accommodations. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:31 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public > > [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > > > > Another question:how many people have applied for and been granted the use of a braillenote for the actual bar exam? > I ask because I do not wish to jeopardize future accommodations. > Please help--thank you. > > > >> On 8/28/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> Well, a lot of times if they get the searchable PDF from the >> publisher, as my school frequently did, there would not be headings >> that would remain if the book was, for example, converted to HTML. >> That isn't the school's fault, necessarily, and it actually could take >> a lot of work for the school to add in all of it. I pretty much only >> used PDF books for my classes unless they were on Bookshare, and >> never had much of a problem. >> >> Which NFB documentation are you referring to? >> >> >> >>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Paul and Kelby, >>> >>> We could not seek any outside help with any graded writing >>> assignments. As for not converting books, that was across the board >>> with all provided material. As long as it was a searchable pdf, it >>> was sufficient. No headings or list identification for exams. They >>> did not think they should follow the guidance of the NFB on >>> accessible documents even though I provided the information as proof >>> I was not asking for more than what was reasonable. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Kelby, >>>> >>>> I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called >>>> Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in >>>> general, but that’s just my guess. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. >>>>> >>>>> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? >>>>> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to >>>>> mention more advanced OCR software. >>>>> >>>>> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep >>>>> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds >>>>> like an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my >>>>> experience was nothing like this. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law >>>>> out there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might >>>>> also be worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law >>>>> review articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and >>>>> it might be a place to start. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the >>>>>> law librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned >>>>>> about legal research there, they skipped over the print materials >>>>>> and the catalogue because I would be able to find everything I >>>>>> needed on lexis and westlaw. I do not assume, per se, to >>>>>> experience resistance. However, based on prior experience, I >>>>>> suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope to be met >>>>>> with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical >>>>>> behavior. >>>>>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people >>>>>> who gave me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think >>>>>> about it, there is a different person handling accommodations for >>>>>> the public than the person who handles accommodations for >>>>>> students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >>>>>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is >>>>>> covered by title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific >>>>>> title IX person. >>>>>> Until >>>>>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students >>>>>> but i might need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >>>>>> >>>>>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents >>>>>> relevant to my situation. Thus the need for case law. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and >>>>>> availability of the site access program. I highly doubt they have >>>>>> moved on the suggestion. >>>>>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student >>>>>> in the future due to their inability to provide services based on >>>>>> administrative burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access >>>>>> Location for Aira because they will not have a need or compelling >>>>>> reason to do it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Amy, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>>>>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather >>>>>>> easy >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each >>>>>>> state >>>>>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational >>>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational >>>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>>>>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would >>>>>>> seem >>>>>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being >>>>>>> able >>>>>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or >>>>>>> university >>>>>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance >>>>>>> before >>>>>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>>>>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>>>>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to >>>>>>> give >>>>>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>>>>>> willing to work with you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>>>>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>>>>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or >>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>>>>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site >>>>>>> access >>>>>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>>>>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>> Open >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the Public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me >>>>>>> locate >>>>>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting >>>>>>> in-depth >>>>>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the >>>>>>> entire >>>>>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> than a couple weeks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and >>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>> do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>>>>>> lexis and westlaw. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print >>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>>>>>> materials? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental >>>>>>>>>> alteration" >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or >>>>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on >>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>>>>>> public. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law >>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested >>>>>>>>>>>> parties' >>>>>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are >>>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>>>>>>> Library >>>>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my >>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to >>>>>>>>>>>>> authenticate >>>>>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant >>>>>>>>>>>>>> County >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He >>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> politely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> two. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> expected >>>>>>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarification. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> research? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>>> access? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.edu >> > > > -- > Seif Saqallah > University of Michigan > Juris Doctor/ > Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies > J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 > > University of Michigan > International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; > Law, Justice, and Social Change > B.A | 2017 > > 248-325-7091 > seifs at umich.edu > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From seifs at umich.edu Thu Aug 29 13:07:30 2019 From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 09:07:30 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> Message-ID: You have made my day--thank you. Sincerely, Seif On 8/29/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > I didn't use a BrailleNote, but I didn't ask for one. The bar was actually > very nice; they even let me use my own laptops The MPRE was a lot more > trouble; they wouldn't let me take the test on the computer.. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 29, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> I took the New York bar with a Braille note taker, electronic version of >> the exam loaded onto a laptop, extra time, and a scribe. The bar exam was >> a surprisingly pleasant experience in terms of getting accommodations. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen >> Saqallah via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:31 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to >> the Public >> >> [EXTERNAL]: This email originated from outside of the firm. Do not click >> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the >> content is safe. >> >> >> >> Another question:how many people have applied for and been granted the use >> of a braillenote for the actual bar exam? >> I ask because I do not wish to jeopardize future accommodations. >> Please help--thank you. >> >> >> >>> On 8/28/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Well, a lot of times if they get the searchable PDF from the >>> publisher, as my school frequently did, there would not be headings >>> that would remain if the book was, for example, converted to HTML. >>> That isn't the school's fault, necessarily, and it actually could take >>> a lot of work for the school to add in all of it. I pretty much only >>> used PDF books for my classes unless they were on Bookshare, and >>> never had much of a problem. >>> >>> Which NFB documentation are you referring to? >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Paul and Kelby, >>>> >>>> We could not seek any outside help with any graded writing >>>> assignments. As for not converting books, that was across the board >>>> with all provided material. As long as it was a searchable pdf, it >>>> was sufficient. No headings or list identification for exams. They >>>> did not think they should follow the guidance of the NFB on >>>> accessible documents even though I provided the information as proof >>>> I was not asking for more than what was reasonable. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Kelby, >>>>> >>>>> I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called >>>>> Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in >>>>> general, but that’s just my guess. >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? >>>>>> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to >>>>>> mention more advanced OCR software. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep >>>>>> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds >>>>>> like an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my >>>>>> experience was nothing like this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law >>>>>> out there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might >>>>>> also be worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law >>>>>> review articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and >>>>>> it might be a place to start. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the >>>>>>> law librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned >>>>>>> about legal research there, they skipped over the print materials >>>>>>> and the catalogue because I would be able to find everything I >>>>>>> needed on lexis and westlaw. I do not assume, per se, to >>>>>>> experience resistance. However, based on prior experience, I >>>>>>> suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope to be met >>>>>>> with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical >>>>>>> behavior. >>>>>>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people >>>>>>> who gave me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think >>>>>>> about it, there is a different person handling accommodations for >>>>>>> the public than the person who handles accommodations for >>>>>>> students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >>>>>>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is >>>>>>> covered by title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific >>>>>>> title IX person. >>>>>>> Until >>>>>>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students >>>>>>> but i might need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents >>>>>>> relevant to my situation. Thus the need for case law. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and >>>>>>> availability of the site access program. I highly doubt they have >>>>>>> moved on the suggestion. >>>>>>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student >>>>>>> in the future due to their inability to provide services based on >>>>>>> administrative burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access >>>>>>> Location for Aira because they will not have a need or compelling >>>>>>> reason to do it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Amy, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>>>>>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather >>>>>>>> easy >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each >>>>>>>> state >>>>>>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational >>>>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational >>>>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>>>>>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would >>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being >>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or >>>>>>>> university >>>>>>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance >>>>>>>> before >>>>>>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter >>>>>>>> unfriendly >>>>>>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>>>>>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when >>>>>>>> working >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>>>>>>> willing to work with you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>>>>>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or >>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>>>>>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred >>>>>>>> accommodation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site >>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? >>>>>>>> Or >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct >>>>>>>> yur >>>>>>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is >>>>>>>> free >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your >>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>> Open >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the Public >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me >>>>>>>> locate >>>>>>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting >>>>>>>> in-depth >>>>>>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the >>>>>>>> entire >>>>>>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> than a couple weeks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and >>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>> do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> lexis and westlaw. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print >>>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the >>>>>>>>>> print >>>>>>>>>> materials? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental >>>>>>>>>>> alteration" >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on >>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the >>>>>>>>>>>> general >>>>>>>>>>>> public. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law >>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is >>>>>>>>>>>> provided >>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw >>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested >>>>>>>>>>>>> parties' >>>>>>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are >>>>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>>>>>>>> Library >>>>>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>>>>>>> westlaw, >>>>>>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> authenticate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> College. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> County >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Library >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> politely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expected >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarification. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.edu >>> >> >> >> -- >> Seif Saqallah >> University of Michigan >> Juris Doctor/ >> Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies >> J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 >> >> University of Michigan >> International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; >> Law, Justice, and Social Change >> B.A | 2017 >> >> 248-325-7091 >> seifs at umich.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.edu > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu From rfarber at jw.com Thu Aug 29 13:16:16 2019 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 13:16:16 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Word crash only with Jaws in large documents In-Reply-To: <3BE6D64B-3195-4F94-8BB2-840451A92004@amarjain.com> References: <3BE6D64B-3195-4F94-8BB2-840451A92004@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Hello Amar - I have found that JAWS can take a couple of minutes to get settled in large documents. For example I was working on a 250 page document last night it took several minutes at one point for JAWS to start responding again. If waiting for a few minutes doesn't work, can you save the document as an RTF or a Word 97 document and retain the formatting that you need? Randy -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Amar Jain via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:03 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Amar Jain Subject: [blindLaw] Word crash only with Jaws in large documents **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** Hi all, Using MS Office 2016 in Windows Server 2016 with Citrix Xen app. While converting documents through Fine Reader which needs to retain headers and footers of the VDR, the resulting word document goes in not responding state as soon as we navigate to next page. As indicated, it only happens while Jaws is running and not with Narrator / NVDA. I have also tried to save this into pdf / html from Word file, but word is just creating another docx file. If anyone has been through this and can share a workable solution, then it would be of great help. Thank you. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com From awildheir at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 13:24:45 2019 From: awildheir at gmail.com (Aimee Harwood) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 09:24:45 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kelby, It is common, even at the community college level to outsource book conversions so the student has a properly tagged and formatted book. At least that is what I have been finding out now after the fact. The outsourcing of the job frees up the staff to take care of other duties and also gives the student a productively navigable book. None of the books I received had headings or anything. They didn't even have proper pagination I could not go to page 225 in my book and have it be the same page 225 the other students had. As for the nfb documentation, I will see if I can locate it. It was very detailed instructions on what a truly accessible document includes in the different formats. Aimee Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 28, 2019, at 3:30 PM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > Well, a lot of times if they get the searchable PDF from the > publisher, as my school frequently did, there would not be headings > that would remain if the book was, for example, converted to HTML. > That isn't the school's fault, necessarily, and it actually could take > a lot of work for the school to add in all of it. I pretty much only > used PDF books for my classes unless they were on Bookshare, and > never had much of a problem. > > Which NFB documentation are you referring to? > > > >> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> Paul and Kelby, >> >> We could not seek any outside help with any graded writing assignments. As >> for not converting books, that was across the board with all provided >> material. As long as it was a searchable pdf, it was sufficient. No headings >> or list identification for exams. They did not think they should follow the >> guidance of the NFB on accessible documents even though I provided the >> information as proof I was not asking for more than what was reasonable. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Kelby, >>> >>> I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called >>> Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in >>> general, but that’s just my guess. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. >>>> >>>> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? >>>> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention >>>> more advanced OCR software. >>>> >>>> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep >>>> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like >>>> an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience >>>> was nothing like this. >>>> >>>> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out >>>> there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be >>>> worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review >>>> articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might >>>> be a place to start. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law >>>>> librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal >>>>> research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue >>>>> because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and >>>>> westlaw. I >>>>> do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior >>>>> experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope >>>>> to be >>>>> met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical >>>>> behavior. >>>>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who >>>>> gave >>>>> me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there >>>>> is a >>>>> different person handling accommodations for the public than the person >>>>> who >>>>> handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >>>>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by >>>>> title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. >>>>> Until >>>>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i >>>>> might >>>>> need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >>>>> >>>>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant >>>>> to >>>>> my situation. Thus the need for case law. >>>>> >>>>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability >>>>> of >>>>> the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the >>>>> suggestion. >>>>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the >>>>> future due to their inability to provide services based on >>>>> administrative >>>>> burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira >>>>> because >>>>> they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. >>>>> >>>>> Aimee >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Amy, >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>>>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy >>>>>> to >>>>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each >>>>>> state >>>>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational >>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational >>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>>>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of >>>>>> what >>>>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it >>>>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem >>>>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being >>>>>> able >>>>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they >>>>>> are >>>>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or >>>>>> university >>>>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly >>>>>> with >>>>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance >>>>>> before >>>>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>>>>> >>>>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>>>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>>>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working >>>>>> with >>>>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to >>>>>> give >>>>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>>>>> willing to work with you. >>>>>> >>>>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>>>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>>>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or >>>>>> NVDA >>>>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that >>>>>> is >>>>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>>>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site >>>>>> access >>>>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or >>>>>> is >>>>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>>>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if >>>>>> there >>>>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free >>>>>> and >>>>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>>>>> >>>>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>>>>> >>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open >>>>>> to >>>>>> the Public >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>>> >>>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me >>>>>> locate >>>>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth >>>>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire >>>>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take >>>>>> more >>>>>> than a couple weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and >>>>>> cannot >>>>>> do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>>>>> lexis and westlaw. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on >>>>>> a >>>>>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print >>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>>>>> materials? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or >>>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on >>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>>>>> public. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of >>>>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law >>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they >>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' >>>>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to >>>>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are >>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my >>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to >>>>>>>>>>>> authenticate >>>>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. >>>>>>>>>>>>> DO >>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussed >>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>>> Open >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> politely >>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or >>>>>>>>>>>>> two. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct >>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected >>>>>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for >>>>>>>>>>>>> clarification. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any >>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced >>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>>> receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>> access? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach >>>>>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fdlmlaw%2540sbcglobal.net&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=k%2F3wkZFG5EjfYJ8S8xEqvzaoEpmgSLBK6YhbAgFXabc%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 14:43:19 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 10:43:19 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> Message-ID: <049B092B-C86B-422C-A3E6-7D677116BAB4@gmail.com> I never encountered this type of outsourcing during college or law school. Who does the conversions of these documents? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 29, 2019, at 9:24 AM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi Kelby, > > It is common, even at the community college level to outsource book conversions so the student has a properly tagged and formatted book. At least that is what I have been finding out now after the fact. The outsourcing of the job frees up the staff to take care of other duties and also gives the student a productively navigable book. None of the books I received had headings or anything. They didn't even have proper pagination I could not go to page 225 in my book and have it be the same page 225 the other students had. As for the nfb documentation, I will see if I can locate it. It was very detailed instructions on what a truly accessible document includes in the different formats. > > Aimee > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 28, 2019, at 3:30 PM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Well, a lot of times if they get the searchable PDF from the >> publisher, as my school frequently did, there would not be headings >> that would remain if the book was, for example, converted to HTML. >> That isn't the school's fault, necessarily, and it actually could take >> a lot of work for the school to add in all of it. I pretty much only >> used PDF books for my classes unless they were on Bookshare, and >> never had much of a problem. >> >> Which NFB documentation are you referring to? >> >> >> >>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Paul and Kelby, >>> >>> We could not seek any outside help with any graded writing assignments. As >>> for not converting books, that was across the board with all provided >>> material. As long as it was a searchable pdf, it was sufficient. No headings >>> or list identification for exams. They did not think they should follow the >>> guidance of the NFB on accessible documents even though I provided the >>> information as proof I was not asking for more than what was reasonable. >>> >>> Aimee >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Kelby, >>>> >>>> I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called >>>> Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in >>>> general, but that’s just my guess. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. >>>>> >>>>> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? >>>>> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention >>>>> more advanced OCR software. >>>>> >>>>> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep >>>>> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like >>>>> an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience >>>>> was nothing like this. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out >>>>> there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be >>>>> worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review >>>>> articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might >>>>> be a place to start. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law >>>>>> librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal >>>>>> research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue >>>>>> because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and >>>>>> westlaw. I >>>>>> do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior >>>>>> experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope >>>>>> to be >>>>>> met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical >>>>>> behavior. >>>>>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who >>>>>> gave >>>>>> me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there >>>>>> is a >>>>>> different person handling accommodations for the public than the person >>>>>> who >>>>>> handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >>>>>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by >>>>>> title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. >>>>>> Until >>>>>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i >>>>>> might >>>>>> need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >>>>>> >>>>>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant >>>>>> to >>>>>> my situation. Thus the need for case law. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability >>>>>> of >>>>>> the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the >>>>>> suggestion. >>>>>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the >>>>>> future due to their inability to provide services based on >>>>>> administrative >>>>>> burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira >>>>>> because >>>>>> they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aimee >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Amy, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>>>>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each >>>>>>> state >>>>>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational >>>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational >>>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>>>>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it >>>>>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem >>>>>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being >>>>>>> able >>>>>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or >>>>>>> university >>>>>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance >>>>>>> before >>>>>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>>>>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>>>>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to >>>>>>> give >>>>>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>>>>>> willing to work with you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>>>>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>>>>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or >>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>>>>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site >>>>>>> access >>>>>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>>>>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the Public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me >>>>>>> locate >>>>>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth >>>>>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire >>>>>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> than a couple weeks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and >>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>> do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>>>>>> lexis and westlaw. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print >>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>>>>>> materials? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or >>>>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on >>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>>>>>> public. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of >>>>>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law >>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they >>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' >>>>>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to >>>>>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are >>>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my >>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to >>>>>>>>>>>>> authenticate >>>>>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> politely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> two. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected >>>>>>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarification. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>>> access? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 14:51:53 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 10:51:53 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public In-Reply-To: <049B092B-C86B-422C-A3E6-7D677116BAB4@gmail.com> References: <009201d5582c$a1756b90$e46042b0$@sbcglobal.net> <92D1CC1D-BE9C-4E1B-B93B-8B5F23E4FAC0@mail.broward.edu> <11D48F28-9527-4CF7-9B1F-9382DF836A96@gmail.com> <011f01d55889$13e4e730$3baeb590$@sbcglobal.net> <61605303-CA50-4AB3-AE15-D31549B4A034@gmail.com> <84F277FA-6D17-44A8-90B7-166EBA82DDF9@gmail.com> <7D8A45E7-6605-4C45-B6A7-5A453A410C65@gmail.com> <2EC97D0A-FD2A-4918-9119-87A11FB33926@gmail.com> <2C2A8549-1E9D-4A2F-A862-38A7CDBE5D52@gmail.com> <59B05DF9-D856-4B94-883F-754944201491@gmail.com> <049B092B-C86B-422C-A3E6-7D677116BAB4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9F98C1E9-D57B-44ED-BF26-FA6A5FFCCACC@gmail.com> For what it's worth, I did just fine in law school with searchable PDFs, which I usually converted to an easier format, as well as Bookshare books when they were already on the site or I had enough time to request them. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 29, 2019, at 10:43 AM, kelby carlson wrote: > > I never encountered this type of outsourcing during college or law school. Who does the conversions of these documents? > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 29, 2019, at 9:24 AM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Hi Kelby, >> >> It is common, even at the community college level to outsource book conversions so the student has a properly tagged and formatted book. At least that is what I have been finding out now after the fact. The outsourcing of the job frees up the staff to take care of other duties and also gives the student a productively navigable book. None of the books I received had headings or anything. They didn't even have proper pagination I could not go to page 225 in my book and have it be the same page 225 the other students had. As for the nfb documentation, I will see if I can locate it. It was very detailed instructions on what a truly accessible document includes in the different formats. >> >> Aimee >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 3:30 PM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Well, a lot of times if they get the searchable PDF from the >>> publisher, as my school frequently did, there would not be headings >>> that would remain if the book was, for example, converted to HTML. >>> That isn't the school's fault, necessarily, and it actually could take >>> a lot of work for the school to add in all of it. I pretty much only >>> used PDF books for my classes unless they were on Bookshare, and >>> never had much of a problem. >>> >>> Which NFB documentation are you referring to? >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Paul and Kelby, >>>> >>>> We could not seek any outside help with any graded writing assignments. As >>>> for not converting books, that was across the board with all provided >>>> material. As long as it was a searchable pdf, it was sufficient. No headings >>>> or list identification for exams. They did not think they should follow the >>>> guidance of the NFB on accessible documents even though I provided the >>>> information as proof I was not asking for more than what was reasonable. >>>> >>>> Aimee >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Paul Wick via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Kelby, >>>>> >>>>> I think she was referring to the practice of a single class (called >>>>> Appellate Advocacy at my school) and extrapolating to the school in >>>>> general, but that’s just my guess. >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML? >>>>>> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention >>>>>> more advanced OCR software. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep >>>>>> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like >>>>>> an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience >>>>>> was nothing like this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out >>>>>> there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be >>>>>> worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review >>>>>> articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might >>>>>> be a place to start. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law >>>>>>> librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal >>>>>>> research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue >>>>>>> because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and >>>>>>> westlaw. I >>>>>>> do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior >>>>>>> experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope >>>>>>> to be >>>>>>> met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical >>>>>>> behavior. >>>>>>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who >>>>>>> gave >>>>>>> me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there >>>>>>> is a >>>>>>> different person handling accommodations for the public than the person >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here. >>>>>>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by >>>>>>> title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. >>>>>>> Until >>>>>>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> need to go through someone entirely different.🤔 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> my situation. Thus the need for case law. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the >>>>>>> suggestion. >>>>>>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the >>>>>>> future due to their inability to provide services based on >>>>>>> administrative >>>>>>> burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Amy, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services >>>>>>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each >>>>>>>> state >>>>>>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational >>>>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational >>>>>>>> rehabilitation >>>>>>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational >>>>>>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it >>>>>>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem >>>>>>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being >>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or >>>>>>>> university >>>>>>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance >>>>>>>> before >>>>>>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly >>>>>>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not >>>>>>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to >>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be >>>>>>>> willing to work with you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not >>>>>>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can >>>>>>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or >>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable >>>>>>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site >>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur >>>>>>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee >>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the Public >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Maura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me >>>>>>>> locate >>>>>>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth >>>>>>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire >>>>>>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> than a couple weeks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and >>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>> do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to >>>>>>>> lexis and westlaw. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> situation such as this would be.🤔 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print >>>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print >>>>>>>>>> materials? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to >>>>>>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to >>>>>>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or >>>>>>>>>>> NVDA >>>>>>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on >>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their >>>>>>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general >>>>>>>>>>>> public. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says. >>>>>>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of >>>>>>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth. >>>>>>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law >>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the >>>>>>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided >>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not >>>>>>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. " >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as >>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>> accommodation? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> George: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke >>>>>>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties' >>>>>>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their >>>>>>>>>>>>> solution. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to >>>>>>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are >>>>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>>> Open to the Public >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my >>>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and >>>>>>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw, >>>>>>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> authenticate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this type of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> politely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resistance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarification. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the public, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> student. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> library as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of the public. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an OCR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the issues >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this request. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=PmiEyN%2BY41Vw6mYR3CA35gO%2FoHA5gHsvbhiAxTrkDBE%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fpaezja%2540mail.broward.edu&data=02%7C01%7Cpaezja%40mail.broward.edu%7Cfbe4f6c1784f4ab412e408d72644043d%7C7bd8e62933bc43c4870ccd3841be1658%7C0%7C0%7C637019945886391637&sdata=au4rZWTyV%2Bh5p9JKU2coAHSmPy2kTjC0OVAHcXbraLw%3D&reserved=0= >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/awildheir%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From rthomas48 at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 15:55:25 2019 From: rthomas48 at gmail.com (Roderick Thomas) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 11:55:25 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] more information Message-ID: Hey guys, my name is Roderick and I just graduated from law school this past May. I wondering if anyone new of any blind or vision impaired lawyers in the Central Florida area, that I could reach out and speak with about their practice. From rthomas48 at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 15:57:25 2019 From: rthomas48 at gmail.com (Roderick Thomas) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 11:57:25 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] seeking more information Message-ID: Hey guys, my name is Roderick and I just graduated from law school this past May. I wondering if anyone new of any blind or vision impaired lawyers in the Central Florida area, that I could reach out and speak with about their practice. From njaskins at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 17:37:42 2019 From: njaskins at gmail.com (Nicole Askins) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 13:37:42 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Word crash only with Jaws in large documents In-Reply-To: References: <3BE6D64B-3195-4F94-8BB2-840451A92004@amarjain.com> Message-ID: Similarly, I am having difficulty with narrator in that it has a lag that does not type the actual words that I am typing. For example if I type of word to quickly there are only a few letters. Does anyone have any similar situations? If so how did you resolve it. I am not a Jaws user On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 9:17 AM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > Hello Amar - I have found that JAWS can take a couple of minutes to get > settled in large documents. For example I was working on a 250 page > document last night it took several minutes at one point for JAWS to start > responding again. If waiting for a few minutes doesn't work, can you save > the document as an RTF or a Word 97 document and retain the formatting that > you need? > > Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Amar Jain via > BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:03 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: Amar Jain > Subject: [blindLaw] Word crash only with Jaws in large documents > > **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** > > Hi all, > > Using MS Office 2016 in Windows Server 2016 with Citrix Xen app. While > converting documents through Fine Reader which needs to retain headers and > footers of the VDR, the resulting word document goes in not responding > state as soon as we navigate to next page. As indicated, it only happens > while Jaws is running and not with Narrator / NVDA. > > I have also tried to save this into pdf / html from Word file, but word is > just creating another docx file. If anyone has been through this and can > share a workable solution, then it would be of great help. > > Thank you. > > Regards, > Amar Jain > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com > From cathryn.bonnette17 at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 18:09:22 2019 From: cathryn.bonnette17 at gmail.com (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:09:22 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: References: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00d401d55e94$e2ce9da0$a86bd8e0$@gmail.com> Hello- I share your experience of reasonable accommodation being denied for security reasons- in my case it was Jaws screen reading software, subsequently approved after a court battle. Might the denial of your requested accommodation be due, at least partially, to a lack of understanding of why the extra device is needed? I'm not understanding how you are reading the exam, yet not able to write using the computer. (?) Also, as I recall, the test is multiple choice only. If so, it is unclear why an extra device is needed for taking notes. As usual, they are doubting that Internet capability is turned off etc. IF past tests show Internet access as a security risk, their concern is reasonable. If not, it could be argued. C Bonnette -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:50 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! Thank you for your responses. Sorry--I am the student; it is, specifically, a braillenote; I would not mind using it when connected to the computer to display what I type on the screen, but NCBE is not allowing it altogether. Sincerely, Seif On 8/28/19, Denise Avant via BlindLaw wrote: > The other question I have is whether the student would be amenable to > using a Braille Display which can be connected to a computer and used > in conjunction with a screen reader? > > > Denise R. Avant, Esq. > President, > National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > 773-991-8050 > Live the life you want. > > For more information about NFBI, > Go to www.nfbofillinois.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk > via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:02 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked > Accommodation--Assistance/information > Requested Please! > > What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? > > The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," he > or she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two > very different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the confusion. > > If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, > which has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship > one to be used on the exam. > > Laura > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> I hope you are well. >> >> This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations >> on the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am >> wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE >> accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked >> the use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security >> grounds) to take and record answers and notes. (See below message). >> >> I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. >> I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet >> they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for >> response or reconsideration. >> >> Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, >> thoughts, experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. >> Please respond at your earliest convenience. >> Thank you, most sincerely. >> >> ... >> Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to >> write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming >> from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession >> (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they >> asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. >> I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has >> bluetooth and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional >> and turned off, in any case, during the exam. >> After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, >> meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, >> or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to >> the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. >> >> As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my >> documentation stating that I have been using an electronic >> braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it for >> undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it on >> multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is part >> of my university-granted testing accommodations. >> >> They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I >> appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. >> Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is >> providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more >> connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes >> or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks >> them. >> (I pasted there email below for context.) >> >> I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? >> >> I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations >> granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the >> braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for >> reading the exam). >> >> Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. >> Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. >> >> ... >> >> >> NCBE email: >> >> ... >> >> Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of >> Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows >> CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter >> is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as >> well as a SD card slot and ports. >> >> Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular >> model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic >> Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store >> or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the >> examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off >> or possibly nonfunctional. >> >> As noted on the NCBE website at >> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >> o >> rg> e >> x.org>, >> NCBE is >> committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to >> examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for >> accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act >> Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable >> modifications to policies, practices, and procedures that might >> otherwise prevent individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE >> in an accessible place or manner, provided such modifications do not >> result in a fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an >> undue burden, or jeopardize examination security. >> >> If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that >> will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. >> Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features >> that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability >> to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. >> For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins >> Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the >> examinee at the end of the examination. >> >> To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare >> Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an >> Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website >> at >> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. >> On the form, >> please state the name of the device or item you would like us to >> consider, along with the model number if applicable. >> >> The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative >> accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the >> November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 >> p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ >> deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or >> a courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. >> Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does >> not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing >> the deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or >> documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests >> are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the >> risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive >> process of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. >> >> Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place >> for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: >> >> •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) >> >> • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break >> >> • Private room >> >> • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) >> >> • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer >> sheet >> >> • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS >> >> Sincerely, >> MPRE Test Accommodation Services >> National Conference of Bar Examiners >> 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 >> 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | >> mpre.ada at ncbex.org >> Website: >> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >> o >> rg> e >> x.org> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm >> a >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.ed > u > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn.bonnette17%40gmail.com From seifs at umich.edu Thu Aug 29 18:22:18 2019 From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:22:18 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: <00d401d55e94$e2ce9da0$a86bd8e0$@gmail.com> References: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> <00d401d55e94$e2ce9da0$a86bd8e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for your response. (I remember reading your case; I commend you Sighted testtakers have the option to take notes on there tests and to write down their answers before transferring them to the scantronsheet; I am also requesting that capability. (One can crossreference MPRE questions and use them to answer other questions; jot down memorized information; etc.) They did not give me that computer option; they told me I can dictate things to the scribe who then can repeat them back to me as notes--this is a clunky process. They first granted the braillenote and now are revoking it. Should they deny this reconsideration, I might consider asking, again, for notetaking on the computer or, as advised by another, to take the MPRE after the bar, as not to jeopardize those future accommodations. Sincerely, Seif On 8/29/19, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > Hello- > > I share your experience of reasonable accommodation being denied for > security reasons- in my case it was Jaws screen reading software, > subsequently approved after a court battle. > > Might the denial of your requested accommodation be due, at least partially, > to a lack of understanding of why the extra device is needed? I'm not > understanding how you are reading the exam, yet not able to write using the > computer. (?) Also, as I recall, the test is multiple choice only. If so, it > is unclear why an extra device is needed for taking notes. > As usual, they are doubting that Internet capability is turned off etc. IF > past tests show Internet access as a security risk, their concern is > reasonable. If not, it could be argued. > > C Bonnette > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen > Saqallah via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:50 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information > Requested Please! > > Thank you for your responses. > Sorry--I am the student; > it is, specifically, a braillenote; > I would not mind using it when connected to the computer to display what I > type on the screen, but NCBE is not allowing it altogether. > > Sincerely, > Seif > > On 8/28/19, Denise Avant via BlindLaw wrote: >> The other question I have is whether the student would be amenable to >> using a Braille Display which can be connected to a computer and used >> in conjunction with a screen reader? >> >> >> Denise R. Avant, Esq. >> President, >> National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >> 773-991-8050 >> Live the life you want. >> >> For more information about NFBI, >> Go to www.nfbofillinois.org >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:02 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked >> Accommodation--Assistance/information >> Requested Please! >> >> What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? >> >> The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," he >> or she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two >> very different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the >> confusion. >> >> If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, >> which has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship >> one to be used on the exam. >> >> Laura >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I hope you are well. >>> >>> This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations >>> on the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am >>> wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE >>> accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked >>> the use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security >>> grounds) to take and record answers and notes. (See below message). >>> >>> I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. >>> I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet >>> they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for >>> response or reconsideration. >>> >>> Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, >>> thoughts, experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. >>> Please respond at your earliest convenience. >>> Thank you, most sincerely. >>> >>> ... >>> Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to >>> write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming >>> from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession >>> (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they >>> asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. >>> I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has >>> bluetooth and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional >>> and turned off, in any case, during the exam. >>> After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, >>> meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, >>> or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to >>> the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. >>> >>> As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my >>> documentation stating that I have been using an electronic >>> braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it for >>> undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it on >>> multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is part >>> of my university-granted testing accommodations. >>> >>> They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I >>> appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. >>> Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is >>> providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more >>> connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes >>> or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks >>> them. >>> (I pasted there email below for context.) >>> >>> I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? >>> >>> I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations >>> granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the >>> braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for >>> reading the exam). >>> >>> Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. >>> Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. >>> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> NCBE email: >>> >>> ... >>> >>> Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of >>> Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows >>> CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter >>> is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as >>> well as a SD card slot and ports. >>> >>> Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular >>> model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic >>> Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store >>> or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the >>> examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off >>> or possibly nonfunctional. >>> >>> As noted on the NCBE website at >>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>> o >>> rg>> e >>> x.org>, >>> NCBE is >>> committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to >>> examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for >>> accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act >>> Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable >>> modifications to policies, practices, and procedures that might >>> otherwise prevent individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE >>> in an accessible place or manner, provided such modifications do not >>> result in a fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an >>> undue burden, or jeopardize examination security. >>> >>> If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that >>> will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. >>> Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features >>> that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability >>> to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. >>> For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins >>> Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the >>> examinee at the end of the examination. >>> >>> To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare >>> Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an >>> Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website >>> at >>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. >>> On the form, >>> please state the name of the device or item you would like us to >>> consider, along with the model number if applicable. >>> >>> The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative >>> accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the >>> November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 >>> p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ >>> deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or >>> a courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. >>> Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does >>> not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing >>> the deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or >>> documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests >>> are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the >>> risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive >>> process of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. >>> >>> Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place >>> for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: >>> >>> •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) >>> >>> • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break >>> >>> • Private room >>> >>> • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) >>> >>> • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer >>> sheet >>> >>> • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> MPRE Test Accommodation Services >>> National Conference of Bar Examiners >>> 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 >>> 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | >>> mpre.ada at ncbex.org >>> Website: >>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>> o >>> rg>> e >>> x.org> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm >>> a >>> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.ed >> u >> > > > -- > Seif Saqallah > University of Michigan > Juris Doctor/ > Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | > 2021 > > University of Michigan > International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and > Social Change B.A | 2017 > > 248-325-7091 > seifs at umich.edu > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn.bonnette17%40gmail.com > > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu From NSingh at cov.com Thu Aug 29 18:24:41 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 18:24:41 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: <00d401d55e94$e2ce9da0$a86bd8e0$@gmail.com> References: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> <00d401d55e94$e2ce9da0$a86bd8e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Someone may not be able to access word processing programs, like Word, because something like Exam Soft or whatever it is called, is installed on the unit to ensure that the individual is looking only at the test form. Any time someone were to attempt to open another program, Exam Soft would block the attempt and perhaps even report the attempt to the testing authority. Other times, the laptop is just equipped with just the test form and nothing else (since Exam Soft type software does seem to reduce JAWS' efficacy). In this latter scenario, and assuming the accommodated test form were in a Word or Word HTML format, you can try typing in the test form or performing a control-n to open a new Word document to take notes. I have not tried either myself. However, I am not sure why anyone would have to take notes on the MPRE, but then again, I had an excellent set of proctors who could take notes at my dictation, which usually meant writing down any questions I wanted to skip and respond later. I found it to be a short and relatively straight forward exam. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 2:09 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Cathryn Bonnette Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! [EXTERNAL] Hello- I share your experience of reasonable accommodation being denied for security reasons- in my case it was Jaws screen reading software, subsequently approved after a court battle. Might the denial of your requested accommodation be due, at least partially, to a lack of understanding of why the extra device is needed? I'm not understanding how you are reading the exam, yet not able to write using the computer. (?) Also, as I recall, the test is multiple choice only. If so, it is unclear why an extra device is needed for taking notes. As usual, they are doubting that Internet capability is turned off etc. IF past tests show Internet access as a security risk, their concern is reasonable. If not, it could be argued. C Bonnette -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:50 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! Thank you for your responses. Sorry--I am the student; it is, specifically, a braillenote; I would not mind using it when connected to the computer to display what I type on the screen, but NCBE is not allowing it altogether. Sincerely, Seif On 8/28/19, Denise Avant via BlindLaw wrote: > The other question I have is whether the student would be amenable to > using a Braille Display which can be connected to a computer and used > in conjunction with a screen reader? > > > Denise R. Avant, Esq. > President, > National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > 773-991-8050 > Live the life you want. > > For more information about NFBI, > Go to www.nfbofillinois.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk > via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:02 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked > Accommodation--Assistance/information > Requested Please! > > What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? > > The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," he > or she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two > very different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the confusion. > > If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, > which has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship > one to be used on the exam. > > Laura > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> I hope you are well. >> >> This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations >> on the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am >> wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE >> accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked >> the use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security >> grounds) to take and record answers and notes. (See below message). >> >> I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. >> I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet >> they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for >> response or reconsideration. >> >> Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, >> thoughts, experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. >> Please respond at your earliest convenience. >> Thank you, most sincerely. >> >> ... >> Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to >> write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming >> from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession >> (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they >> asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. >> I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has >> bluetooth and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional >> and turned off, in any case, during the exam. >> After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, >> meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, >> or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to >> the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. >> >> As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my >> documentation stating that I have been using an electronic >> braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it for >> undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it on >> multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is part >> of my university-granted testing accommodations. >> >> They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I >> appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. >> Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is >> providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more >> connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes >> or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks >> them. >> (I pasted there email below for context.) >> >> I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? >> >> I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations >> granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the >> braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for >> reading the exam). >> >> Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. >> Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. >> >> ... >> >> >> NCBE email: >> >> ... >> >> Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of >> Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows >> CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter >> is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as >> well as a SD card slot and ports. >> >> Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular >> model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic >> Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store >> or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the >> examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off >> or possibly nonfunctional. >> >> As noted on the NCBE website at >> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >> o >> rg> e >> x.org>, >> NCBE is >> committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to >> examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for >> accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act >> Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable >> modifications to policies, practices, and procedures that might >> otherwise prevent individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE >> in an accessible place or manner, provided such modifications do not >> result in a fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an >> undue burden, or jeopardize examination security. >> >> If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that >> will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. >> Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features >> that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability >> to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. >> For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins >> Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the >> examinee at the end of the examination. >> >> To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare >> Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an >> Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website >> at >> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. >> On the form, >> please state the name of the device or item you would like us to >> consider, along with the model number if applicable. >> >> The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative >> accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the >> November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 >> p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ >> deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or >> a courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. >> Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does >> not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing >> the deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or >> documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests >> are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the >> risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive >> process of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. >> >> Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place >> for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: >> >> •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) >> >> • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break >> >> • Private room >> >> • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) >> >> • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer >> sheet >> >> • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS >> >> Sincerely, >> MPRE Test Accommodation Services >> National Conference of Bar Examiners >> 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 >> 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | >> mpre.ada at ncbex.org >> Website: >> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >> o >> rg> e >> x.org> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm >> a >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.ed > u > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn.bonnette17%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From NSingh at cov.com Thu Aug 29 18:27:50 2019 From: NSingh at cov.com (Singh, Nandini) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 18:27:50 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: References: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> <00d401d55e94$e2ce9da0$a86bd8e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6ec8a3427c054a7f8f28badd93824bc3@CBIvEX03eUS.cov.com> In the alternative, maybe request the ability to have a single Word document available to take notes, knowing that NCBE would want a copy of this notes document following the conclusion of the exam. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 2:22 PM To: Cathryn Bonnette Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah ; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! [EXTERNAL] Thank you for your response. (I remember reading your case; I commend you Sighted testtakers have the option to take notes on there tests and to write down their answers before transferring them to the scantronsheet; I am also requesting that capability. (One can crossreference MPRE questions and use them to answer other questions; jot down memorized information; etc.) They did not give me that computer option; they told me I can dictate things to the scribe who then can repeat them back to me as notes--this is a clunky process. They first granted the braillenote and now are revoking it. Should they deny this reconsideration, I might consider asking, again, for notetaking on the computer or, as advised by another, to take the MPRE after the bar, as not to jeopardize those future accommodations. Sincerely, Seif On 8/29/19, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > Hello- > > I share your experience of reasonable accommodation being denied for > security reasons- in my case it was Jaws screen reading software, > subsequently approved after a court battle. > > Might the denial of your requested accommodation be due, at least > partially, to a lack of understanding of why the extra device is > needed? I'm not understanding how you are reading the exam, yet not > able to write using the computer. (?) Also, as I recall, the test is > multiple choice only. If so, it is unclear why an extra device is needed for taking notes. > As usual, they are doubting that Internet capability is turned off > etc. IF past tests show Internet access as a security risk, their > concern is reasonable. If not, it could be argued. > > C Bonnette > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:50 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked > Accommodation--Assistance/information > Requested Please! > > Thank you for your responses. > Sorry--I am the student; > it is, specifically, a braillenote; > I would not mind using it when connected to the computer to display > what I type on the screen, but NCBE is not allowing it altogether. > > Sincerely, > Seif > > On 8/28/19, Denise Avant via BlindLaw wrote: >> The other question I have is whether the student would be amenable to >> using a Braille Display which can be connected to a computer and used >> in conjunction with a screen reader? >> >> >> Denise R. Avant, Esq. >> President, >> National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >> 773-991-8050 >> Live the life you want. >> >> For more information about NFBI, >> Go to www.nfbofillinois.org >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:02 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked >> Accommodation--Assistance/information >> Requested Please! >> >> What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? >> >> The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," >> he or she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two >> very different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the >> confusion. >> >> If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, >> which has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship >> one to be used on the exam. >> >> Laura >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I hope you are well. >>> >>> This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations >>> on the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am >>> wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE >>> accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked >>> the use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security >>> grounds) to take and record answers and notes. (See below message). >>> >>> I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. >>> I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, >>> yet they take several days to respond, reducing the time available >>> for response or reconsideration. >>> >>> Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, >>> thoughts, experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. >>> Please respond at your earliest convenience. >>> Thank you, most sincerely. >>> >>> ... >>> Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter >>> to write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry >>> stemming from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its >>> possession (an accommodation I requested during my initial >>> application), they asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. >>> I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has >>> bluetooth and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional >>> and turned off, in any case, during the exam. >>> After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, >>> meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my >>> test, or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating >>> them to the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. >>> >>> As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my >>> documentation stating that I have been using an electronic >>> braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it >>> for undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it >>> on multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is >>> part of my university-granted testing accommodations. >>> >>> They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I >>> appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. >>> Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is >>> providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more >>> connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take >>> notes or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who >>> then marks them. >>> (I pasted there email below for context.) >>> >>> I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? >>> >>> I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations >>> granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the >>> braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for >>> reading the exam). >>> >>> Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. >>> Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. >>> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> NCBE email: >>> >>> ... >>> >>> Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of >>> Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; >>> windows CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of >>> Braillewriter is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth >>> capability, as well as a SD card slot and ports. >>> >>> Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this >>> particular model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An >>> electronic Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the >>> internet, and store or transmit information to other devices cannot >>> be permitted in the examination room, even if those features are >>> thought to be turned off or possibly nonfunctional. >>> >>> As noted on the NCBE website at >>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>> o >>> rg>> b >>> e >>> x.org>, >>> NCBE is >>> committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to >>> examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for >>> accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities >>> Act Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable >>> modifications to policies, practices, and procedures that might >>> otherwise prevent individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE >>> in an accessible place or manner, provided such modifications do not >>> result in a fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an >>> undue burden, or jeopardize examination security. >>> >>> If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that >>> will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. >>> Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features >>> that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have >>> capability to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. >>> For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins >>> Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the >>> examinee at the end of the examination. >>> >>> To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare >>> Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an >>> Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website >>> at >>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. >>> On the form, >>> please state the name of the device or item you would like us to >>> consider, along with the model number if applicable. >>> >>> The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative >>> accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the >>> November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 >>> p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ >>> deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or >>> a courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. >>> Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does >>> not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing >>> the deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or >>> documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests >>> are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the >>> risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive >>> process of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. >>> >>> Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place >>> for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: >>> >>> •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) >>> >>> • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break >>> >>> • Private room >>> >>> • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) >>> >>> • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer >>> sheet >>> >>> • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> MPRE Test Accommodation Services >>> National Conference of Bar Examiners >>> 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 >>> 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | >>> mpre.ada at ncbex.org >>> Website: >>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>> o >>> rg>> b >>> e >>> x.org> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>> m >>> a >>> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gm >> a >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.e >> d >> u >> > > > -- > Seif Saqallah > University of Michigan > Juris Doctor/ > Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate > | > 2021 > > University of Michigan > International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, > Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 > > 248-325-7091 > seifs at umich.edu > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn.bonnette > 17%40gmail.com > > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com From seifs at umich.edu Thu Aug 29 18:28:06 2019 From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:28:06 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: References: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> <00d401d55e94$e2ce9da0$a86bd8e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you; that was helpful--I will look into it. Sincerely, Seif On 8/29/19, Singh, Nandini via BlindLaw wrote: > Someone may not be able to access word processing programs, like Word, > because something like Exam Soft or whatever it is called, is installed on > the unit to ensure that the individual is looking only at the test form. Any > time someone were to attempt to open another program, Exam Soft would block > the attempt and perhaps even report the attempt to the testing authority. > Other times, the laptop is just equipped with just the test form and nothing > else (since Exam Soft type software does seem to reduce JAWS' efficacy). In > this latter scenario, and assuming the accommodated test form were in a Word > or Word HTML format, you can try typing in the test form or performing a > control-n to open a new Word document to take notes. I have not tried either > myself. However, I am not sure why anyone would have to take notes on the > MPRE, but then again, I had an excellent set of proctors who could take > notes at my dictation, which usually meant writing down any questions I > wanted to skip and respond later. I found it to be a short and relatively > straight forward exam. > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette > via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 2:09 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Cathryn Bonnette > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information > Requested Please! > > [EXTERNAL] > > Hello- > > I share your experience of reasonable accommodation being denied for > security reasons- in my case it was Jaws screen reading software, > subsequently approved after a court battle. > > Might the denial of your requested accommodation be due, at least partially, > to a lack of understanding of why the extra device is needed? I'm not > understanding how you are reading the exam, yet not able to write using the > computer. (?) Also, as I recall, the test is multiple choice only. If so, it > is unclear why an extra device is needed for taking notes. > As usual, they are doubting that Internet capability is turned off etc. IF > past tests show Internet access as a security risk, their concern is > reasonable. If not, it could be argued. > > C Bonnette > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen > Saqallah via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:50 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information > Requested Please! > > Thank you for your responses. > Sorry--I am the student; > it is, specifically, a braillenote; > I would not mind using it when connected to the computer to display what I > type on the screen, but NCBE is not allowing it altogether. > > Sincerely, > Seif > > On 8/28/19, Denise Avant via BlindLaw wrote: >> The other question I have is whether the student would be amenable to >> using a Braille Display which can be connected to a computer and used >> in conjunction with a screen reader? >> >> >> Denise R. Avant, Esq. >> President, >> National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >> 773-991-8050 >> Live the life you want. >> >> For more information about NFBI, >> Go to www.nfbofillinois.org >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:02 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked >> Accommodation--Assistance/information >> Requested Please! >> >> What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? >> >> The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," he >> or she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two >> very different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the >> confusion. >> >> If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, >> which has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship >> one to be used on the exam. >> >> Laura >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I hope you are well. >>> >>> This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations >>> on the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am >>> wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE >>> accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked >>> the use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security >>> grounds) to take and record answers and notes. (See below message). >>> >>> I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. >>> I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet >>> they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for >>> response or reconsideration. >>> >>> Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, >>> thoughts, experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. >>> Please respond at your earliest convenience. >>> Thank you, most sincerely. >>> >>> ... >>> Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to >>> write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming >>> from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession >>> (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they >>> asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. >>> I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has >>> bluetooth and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional >>> and turned off, in any case, during the exam. >>> After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, >>> meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, >>> or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to >>> the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. >>> >>> As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my >>> documentation stating that I have been using an electronic >>> braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it for >>> undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it on >>> multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is part >>> of my university-granted testing accommodations. >>> >>> They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I >>> appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. >>> Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is >>> providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more >>> connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes >>> or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks >>> them. >>> (I pasted there email below for context.) >>> >>> I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? >>> >>> I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations >>> granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the >>> braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for >>> reading the exam). >>> >>> Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. >>> Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. >>> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> NCBE email: >>> >>> ... >>> >>> Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of >>> Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows >>> CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter >>> is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as >>> well as a SD card slot and ports. >>> >>> Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular >>> model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic >>> Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store >>> or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the >>> examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off >>> or possibly nonfunctional. >>> >>> As noted on the NCBE website at >>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>> o >>> rg>> e >>> x.org>, >>> NCBE is >>> committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to >>> examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for >>> accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act >>> Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable >>> modifications to policies, practices, and procedures that might >>> otherwise prevent individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE >>> in an accessible place or manner, provided such modifications do not >>> result in a fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an >>> undue burden, or jeopardize examination security. >>> >>> If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that >>> will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. >>> Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features >>> that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability >>> to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. >>> For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins >>> Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the >>> examinee at the end of the examination. >>> >>> To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare >>> Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an >>> Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website >>> at >>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. >>> On the form, >>> please state the name of the device or item you would like us to >>> consider, along with the model number if applicable. >>> >>> The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative >>> accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the >>> November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 >>> p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ >>> deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or >>> a courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. >>> Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does >>> not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing >>> the deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or >>> documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests >>> are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the >>> risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive >>> process of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. >>> >>> Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place >>> for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: >>> >>> •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) >>> >>> • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break >>> >>> • Private room >>> >>> • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) >>> >>> • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer >>> sheet >>> >>> • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> MPRE Test Accommodation Services >>> National Conference of Bar Examiners >>> 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 >>> 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | >>> mpre.ada at ncbex.org >>> Website: >>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>> o >>> rg>> e >>> x.org> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm >>> a >>> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.ed >> u >> > > > -- > Seif Saqallah > University of Michigan > Juris Doctor/ > Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | > 2021 > > University of Michigan > International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and > Social Change B.A | 2017 > > 248-325-7091 > seifs at umich.edu > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn.bonnette17%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nsingh%40cov.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.edu > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu From angie.matney at gmail.com Thu Aug 29 22:03:21 2019 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 18:03:21 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: References: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> <00d401d55e94$e2ce9da0$a86bd8e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Would an old-style Perkins brailler work for this purpose? It seems to me that if you can use one of those, it would be a great option. This is also significantly different from the bar exam, because you have to write essays for the bar; so it seems to me that you would have a good argument as to why you need an electronic braille device for the bar even if you don't use one for the MPRE. Also, if you can't use a Perkins Brailler, or if you think it would be more effective, maybe you can ask NCBE to provide an acceptable braille display (one without storage or wireless capabilities) with the laptop they are providing. Having said this, I don't know that I'd be keen on working with new technology while taking an exam. And as you've said, you can also put this off for a little while, if that makes the most sense. Good luck. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 29, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw wrote: > > Thank you for your response. > (I remember reading your case; I commend you > Sighted testtakers have the option to take notes on there tests and to > write down their answers before transferring them to the > scantronsheet; I am also requesting that capability. > (One can crossreference MPRE questions and use them to answer other > questions; jot down memorized information; etc.) > They did not give me that computer option; they told me I can dictate > things to the scribe who then can repeat them back to me as > notes--this is a clunky process. > They first granted the braillenote and now are revoking it. > Should they deny this reconsideration, I might consider asking, again, > for notetaking on the computer or, as advised by another, to take the > MPRE after the bar, as not to jeopardize those future accommodations. > > Sincerely, > Seif > >> On 8/29/19, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >> Hello- >> >> I share your experience of reasonable accommodation being denied for >> security reasons- in my case it was Jaws screen reading software, >> subsequently approved after a court battle. >> >> Might the denial of your requested accommodation be due, at least partially, >> to a lack of understanding of why the extra device is needed? I'm not >> understanding how you are reading the exam, yet not able to write using the >> computer. (?) Also, as I recall, the test is multiple choice only. If so, it >> is unclear why an extra device is needed for taking notes. >> As usual, they are doubting that Internet capability is turned off etc. IF >> past tests show Internet access as a security risk, their concern is >> reasonable. If not, it could be argued. >> >> C Bonnette >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen >> Saqallah via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:50 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information >> Requested Please! >> >> Thank you for your responses. >> Sorry--I am the student; >> it is, specifically, a braillenote; >> I would not mind using it when connected to the computer to display what I >> type on the screen, but NCBE is not allowing it altogether. >> >> Sincerely, >> Seif >> >>> On 8/28/19, Denise Avant via BlindLaw wrote: >>> The other question I have is whether the student would be amenable to >>> using a Braille Display which can be connected to a computer and used >>> in conjunction with a screen reader? >>> >>> >>> Denise R. Avant, Esq. >>> President, >>> National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >>> 773-991-8050 >>> Live the life you want. >>> >>> For more information about NFBI, >>> Go to www.nfbofillinois.org >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:02 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked >>> Accommodation--Assistance/information >>> Requested Please! >>> >>> What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? >>> >>> The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," he >>> or she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two >>> very different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the >>> confusion. >>> >>> If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, >>> which has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship >>> one to be used on the exam. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> I hope you are well. >>>> >>>> This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations >>>> on the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am >>>> wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE >>>> accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked >>>> the use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security >>>> grounds) to take and record answers and notes. (See below message). >>>> >>>> I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. >>>> I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet >>>> they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for >>>> response or reconsideration. >>>> >>>> Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, >>>> thoughts, experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. >>>> Please respond at your earliest convenience. >>>> Thank you, most sincerely. >>>> >>>> ... >>>> Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to >>>> write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming >>>> from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession >>>> (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they >>>> asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. >>>> I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has >>>> bluetooth and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional >>>> and turned off, in any case, during the exam. >>>> After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, >>>> meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, >>>> or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to >>>> the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. >>>> >>>> As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my >>>> documentation stating that I have been using an electronic >>>> braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it for >>>> undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it on >>>> multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is part >>>> of my university-granted testing accommodations. >>>> >>>> They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I >>>> appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. >>>> Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is >>>> providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more >>>> connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes >>>> or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks >>>> them. >>>> (I pasted there email below for context.) >>>> >>>> I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? >>>> >>>> I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations >>>> granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the >>>> braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for >>>> reading the exam). >>>> >>>> Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. >>>> Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>> >>>> NCBE email: >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>> Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of >>>> Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows >>>> CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter >>>> is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as >>>> well as a SD card slot and ports. >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular >>>> model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic >>>> Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store >>>> or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the >>>> examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off >>>> or possibly nonfunctional. >>>> >>>> As noted on the NCBE website at >>>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>>> o >>>> rg>>> e >>>> x.org>, >>>> NCBE is >>>> committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to >>>> examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for >>>> accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act >>>> Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable >>>> modifications to policies, practices, and procedures that might >>>> otherwise prevent individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE >>>> in an accessible place or manner, provided such modifications do not >>>> result in a fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an >>>> undue burden, or jeopardize examination security. >>>> >>>> If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that >>>> will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. >>>> Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features >>>> that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability >>>> to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. >>>> For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins >>>> Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the >>>> examinee at the end of the examination. >>>> >>>> To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare >>>> Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an >>>> Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website >>>> at >>>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. >>>> On the form, >>>> please state the name of the device or item you would like us to >>>> consider, along with the model number if applicable. >>>> >>>> The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative >>>> accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the >>>> November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 >>>> p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ >>>> deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or >>>> a courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. >>>> Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does >>>> not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing >>>> the deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or >>>> documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests >>>> are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the >>>> risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive >>>> process of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. >>>> >>>> Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place >>>> for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: >>>> >>>> •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) >>>> >>>> • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break >>>> >>>> • Private room >>>> >>>> • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) >>>> >>>> • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer >>>> sheet >>>> >>>> • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> MPRE Test Accommodation Services >>>> National Conference of Bar Examiners >>>> 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 >>>> 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | >>>> mpre.ada at ncbex.org >>>> Website: >>>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>>> o >>>> rg>>> e >>>> x.org> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm >>>> a >>>> il.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.ed >>> u >>> >> >> >> -- >> Seif Saqallah >> University of Michigan >> Juris Doctor/ >> Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | >> 2021 >> >> University of Michigan >> International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and >> Social Change B.A | 2017 >> >> 248-325-7091 >> seifs at umich.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn.bonnette17%40gmail.com >> >> > > > -- > Seif Saqallah > University of Michigan > Juris Doctor/ > Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies > J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 > > University of Michigan > International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; > Law, Justice, and Social Change > B.A | 2017 > > 248-325-7091 > seifs at umich.edu > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From seifs at umich.edu Thu Aug 29 23:48:28 2019 From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 19:48:28 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked Accommodation--Assistance/information Requested Please! In-Reply-To: References: <01f401d55db7$5f389640$1da9c2c0$@gmail.com> <00d401d55e94$e2ce9da0$a86bd8e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you; wise and good suggestions. Sincerely, Seif On 8/29/19, Angie Matney via BlindLaw wrote: > Would an old-style Perkins brailler work for this purpose? It seems to me > that if you can use one of those, it would be a great option. This is also > significantly different from the bar exam, because you have to write essays > for the bar; so it seems to me that you would have a good argument as to why > you need an electronic braille device for the bar even if you don't use one > for the MPRE. > > Also, if you can't use a Perkins Brailler, or if you think it would be more > effective, maybe you can ask NCBE to provide an acceptable braille display > (one without storage or wireless capabilities) with the laptop they are > providing. Having said this, I don't know that I'd be keen on working with > new technology while taking an exam. > > And as you've said, you can also put this off for a little while, if that > makes the most sense. > > Good luck. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 29, 2019, at 2:22 PM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Thank you for your response. >> (I remember reading your case; I commend you >> Sighted testtakers have the option to take notes on there tests and to >> write down their answers before transferring them to the >> scantronsheet; I am also requesting that capability. >> (One can crossreference MPRE questions and use them to answer other >> questions; jot down memorized information; etc.) >> They did not give me that computer option; they told me I can dictate >> things to the scribe who then can repeat them back to me as >> notes--this is a clunky process. >> They first granted the braillenote and now are revoking it. >> Should they deny this reconsideration, I might consider asking, again, >> for notetaking on the computer or, as advised by another, to take the >> MPRE after the bar, as not to jeopardize those future accommodations. >> >> Sincerely, >> Seif >> >>> On 8/29/19, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >>> Hello- >>> >>> I share your experience of reasonable accommodation being denied for >>> security reasons- in my case it was Jaws screen reading software, >>> subsequently approved after a court battle. >>> >>> Might the denial of your requested accommodation be due, at least >>> partially, >>> to a lack of understanding of why the extra device is needed? I'm not >>> understanding how you are reading the exam, yet not able to write using >>> the >>> computer. (?) Also, as I recall, the test is multiple choice only. If so, >>> it >>> is unclear why an extra device is needed for taking notes. >>> As usual, they are doubting that Internet capability is turned off etc. >>> IF >>> past tests show Internet access as a security risk, their concern is >>> reasonable. If not, it could be argued. >>> >>> C Bonnette >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> Seif-Eldeen >>> Saqallah via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:50 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked >>> Accommodation--Assistance/information >>> Requested Please! >>> >>> Thank you for your responses. >>> Sorry--I am the student; >>> it is, specifically, a braillenote; >>> I would not mind using it when connected to the computer to display what >>> I >>> type on the screen, but NCBE is not allowing it altogether. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Seif >>> >>>> On 8/28/19, Denise Avant via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> The other question I have is whether the student would be amenable to >>>> using a Braille Display which can be connected to a computer and used >>>> in conjunction with a screen reader? >>>> >>>> >>>> Denise R. Avant, Esq. >>>> President, >>>> National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >>>> 773-991-8050 >>>> Live the life you want. >>>> >>>> For more information about NFBI, >>>> Go to www.nfbofillinois.org >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:02 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NCBE Revoked >>>> Accommodation--Assistance/information >>>> Requested Please! >>>> >>>> What is your relationship to the student? Or are you the student? >>>> >>>> The person is not requesting to use "an electronic Braille writer," he >>>> or she is requesting the use of a Braille notetaker. Those are two >>>> very different pieces of equipment, which probably contributed to the >>>> confusion. >>>> >>>> If the student is open to using a manual old school Perkins Brailler, >>>> which has been approved in the past, let me know and I'd happily ship >>>> one to be used on the exam. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> I hope you are well. >>>>> >>>>> This is for a Law school student who is applying for accommodations >>>>> on the MPRE. I fortunately found your contact information, and am >>>>> wondering if you are able to advise or assist in contesting an NCBE >>>>> accommodations decision, where NCBE first approved and now revoked >>>>> the use of an electronic braillewriter (allegedly on security >>>>> grounds) to take and record answers and notes. (See below message). >>>>> >>>>> I have been contacting others, but with little results yet. >>>>> I want to respond as quickly as possible; they say time is short, yet >>>>> they take several days to respond, reducing the time available for >>>>> response or reconsideration. >>>>> >>>>> Understanding that this is not legal advice, Any assistance, >>>>> thoughts, experiences, or advice is greatly appreciated. >>>>> Please respond at your earliest convenience. >>>>> Thank you, most sincerely. >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> Previously, NCBE granted me the use of an electronic braillewriter to >>>>> write and read my answers and notes. Upon further inquiry stemming >>>>> from needing a flashdrive to transfer those notes into its possession >>>>> (an accommodation I requested during my initial application), they >>>>> asked me for more information about the braillewriter's capabilities. >>>>> I was forthcoming with that information, stating that it has >>>>> bluetooth and internet capabilities, but that they are nonfunctional >>>>> and turned off, in any case, during the exam. >>>>> After several days, they revoked my braillewriter accommodation, >>>>> meaning that I have no way of taking or reading notes during my test, >>>>> or even recording and reviewing my answers before dictating them to >>>>> the scribe who fills out the scantron sheet. >>>>> >>>>> As part of my accommodations application, I had sent them my >>>>> documentation stating that I have been using an electronic >>>>> braillewriter for tests as far back as high school; that I use it for >>>>> undergrad, graduate, and law classes and exams; that I used it on >>>>> multiple standerdized tests, including the LSAT; and that it is part >>>>> of my university-granted testing accommodations. >>>>> >>>>> They first did not approve my use of an electronic braillwriter; I >>>>> appealed and then they (reluctantly?) approved it. >>>>> Now, they wish to revoke it for alleged security reasons. NCBE is >>>>> providing a computer through which to read the exam (which has more >>>>> connectivity than the braillewriter), but no way for me to take notes >>>>> or record my answers before telling them to the scribe who then marks >>>>> them. >>>>> (I pasted there email below for context.) >>>>> >>>>> I will write them another email, but how do you advise that I proceed? >>>>> >>>>> I also see this as establishing precedent for my accommodations >>>>> granted on the bar, which I do not think I can take without the >>>>> braillewriter, as that is how I read and write (the computer is for >>>>> reading the exam). >>>>> >>>>> Please advise--I do not know how next to proceed. >>>>> Any assistance you have is most and greatly appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> NCBE email: >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for sending the information about your specific model of >>>>> Braillewriter - HumaanWare Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows >>>>> CE6.0. As you mentioned in your message, this model of Braillewriter >>>>> is designed to connect to the internet, has Bluetooth capability, as >>>>> well as a SD card slot and ports. >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot permit this particular >>>>> model of Braillewriter to be brought into the MPRE. An electronic >>>>> Braillewriter with the ability to connect to the internet, and store >>>>> or transmit information to other devices cannot be permitted in the >>>>> examination room, even if those features are thought to be turned off >>>>> or possibly nonfunctional. >>>>> >>>>> As noted on the NCBE website at >>>>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>>>> o >>>>> rg>>>> e >>>>> x.org>, >>>>> NCBE is >>>>> committed to providing reasonable and appropriate accommodations to >>>>> examinees with documented disabilities who demonstrate a need for >>>>> accommodations in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act >>>>> Amendment Act of 2008 (ADAAA). NCBE will make reasonable >>>>> modifications to policies, practices, and procedures that might >>>>> otherwise prevent individuals with disabilities from taking the MPRE >>>>> in an accessible place or manner, provided such modifications do not >>>>> result in a fundamental alteration to the examination, impose an >>>>> undue burden, or jeopardize examination security. >>>>> >>>>> If you have an alternative idea of how you may be accommodated that >>>>> will not pose a test security risk, we would be happy to consider it. >>>>> Please note that a different model of Braillewriter without features >>>>> that allow for internet connectivity or that does not have capability >>>>> to transmit to other devices or store information could be considered. >>>>> For instance, in the past NCBE has approved use of a Perkins >>>>> Braillewriter and Braille paper, and collected the notes from the >>>>> examinee at the end of the examination. >>>>> >>>>> To be considered for an alternative accommodation to your HumaanWare >>>>> Braillenote mpower; keysoft v9.5; windows CE6.0, please complete an >>>>> Applicant Reconsideration Request Form available on the NCBE website >>>>> at >>>>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex.org. >>>>> On the form, >>>>> please state the name of the device or item you would like us to >>>>> consider, along with the model number if applicable. >>>>> >>>>> The deadline for NCBE to receive your request for an alternative >>>>> accommodation (instead of your electronic Braillewriter) for the >>>>> November 2019 MPRE is the late registration deadline which is 11:59 >>>>> p.m. Eastern Time on September 26, 2019. This is a ‘received by’ >>>>> deadline and not a postmark deadline; delivery to the post office or >>>>> a courier service by the deadline does not constitute receipt by NCBE. >>>>> Likewise, unsuccessful electronic transmission by the deadline does >>>>> not constitute receipt by NCBE. There are no exceptions to missing >>>>> the deadline and NCBE will not review or consider any forms or >>>>> documentation received after the deadline. Applicants whose requests >>>>> are received fewer than 15 business days before the deadline run the >>>>> risk of not having time to avail themselves of the interactive >>>>> process of requesting reconsideration of NCBE’s decision. >>>>> >>>>> Please note that your other approved accommodations remain in place >>>>> for the November 2019 MPRE, and are listed below: >>>>> >>>>> •100% extended testing time (extra 120 minutes) >>>>> >>>>> • Supervised breaks - One 15 minute rest break >>>>> >>>>> • Private room >>>>> >>>>> • Auxiliary aid - Laptop equipped with JAWS (NCBE provided) >>>>> >>>>> • Scribe provided by NCBE - dictate answers to scribe to mark answer >>>>> sheet >>>>> >>>>> • Other - NCBE will provide headphones to use with JAWS >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> MPRE Test Accommodation Services >>>>> National Conference of Bar Examiners >>>>> 302 S. Bedford Street, Madison, WI 53703-3622 >>>>> 608-316-3070 | Fax: 608-316-3119 | >>>>> mpre.ada at ncbex.org >>>>> Website: >>>>> https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/E8DtCjROyXcO3Z5hWTd3U?domain=ncbex. >>>>> o >>>>> rg>>>> e >>>>> x.org> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm >>>>> a >>>>> il.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.ed >>>> u >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Seif Saqallah >>> University of Michigan >>> Juris Doctor/ >>> Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | >>> 2021 >>> >>> University of Michigan >>> International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, >>> and >>> Social Change B.A | 2017 >>> >>> 248-325-7091 >>> seifs at umich.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn.bonnette17%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Seif Saqallah >> University of Michigan >> Juris Doctor/ >> Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies >> J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 >> >> University of Michigan >> International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; >> Law, Justice, and Social Change >> B.A | 2017 >> >> 248-325-7091 >> seifs at umich.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/seifs%40umich.edu > -- Seif Saqallah University of Michigan Juris Doctor/ Masters in Middle Eastern and North African Studies J.D/M.A Candidate | 2021 University of Michigan International studies, Arabic Studies, and Judaic Studies; Law, Justice, and Social Change B.A | 2017 248-325-7091 seifs at umich.edu From amarjain at amarjain.com Fri Aug 30 01:22:55 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 06:52:55 +0530 Subject: [blindLaw] Word crash only with Jaws in large documents In-Reply-To: References: <3BE6D64B-3195-4F94-8BB2-840451A92004@amarjain.com> Message-ID: <6D05B34D-E681-4192-BB0E-74CA3BBB5B61@amarjain.com> Hi Randy, I tried all of that including complete pagination. But nothing worked. The interim solution is to convert the scanned pdf into HTML from Fine Reader itself. Regards, Amar Jain Sent from my iPhone > On 29-Aug-2019, at 11:07 PM, Nicole Askins via BlindLaw wrote: > > Similarly, I am having difficulty with narrator in that it has a lag that > does not type the actual words that I am typing. For example if I type of > word to quickly there are only a few letters. Does anyone have any similar > situations? If so how did you resolve it. I am not a Jaws user > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 9:17 AM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > >> Hello Amar - I have found that JAWS can take a couple of minutes to get >> settled in large documents. For example I was working on a 250 page >> document last night it took several minutes at one point for JAWS to start >> responding again. If waiting for a few minutes doesn't work, can you save >> the document as an RTF or a Word 97 document and retain the formatting that >> you need? >> >> Randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Amar Jain via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:03 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: Amar Jain >> Subject: [blindLaw] Word crash only with Jaws in large documents >> >> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** >> >> Hi all, >> >> Using MS Office 2016 in Windows Server 2016 with Citrix Xen app. While >> converting documents through Fine Reader which needs to retain headers and >> footers of the VDR, the resulting word document goes in not responding >> state as soon as we navigate to next page. As indicated, it only happens >> while Jaws is running and not with Narrator / NVDA. >> >> I have also tried to save this into pdf / html from Word file, but word is >> just creating another docx file. If anyone has been through this and can >> share a workable solution, then it would be of great help. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Regards, >> Amar Jain >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/njaskins%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Aug 30 13:56:16 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 07:56:16 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <031b01d55f3a$b1793430$146b9c90$@labarrelaw.com> Fyi and happy weekend! From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 7:40 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Good morning, What's new? The online application for the Attorney General's Honors Program (HP) and the Summer Law Intern Program (SLIP) opened July 31, 2019. The deadline for law students and eligible graduates to apply is Sunday, September 8, 2019. The Attorney General's Honors Program has been recognized as the nation's premier entry-level federal attorney recruitment program. HP information, including participating components, eligibility guidelines, and application instructions can be found at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/entry-level-attorneys. Information about SLIP and a link to the application is at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/summer-law-intern-program. Please spread the word about these exciting legal hiring programs and opportunities to join the U.S. Department of Justice! Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. The Department of Justice office places a high value on diversity of experiences and perspectives and encourages applications from all qualified men and women from all ethnic and racial backgrounds, veterans, LGBT individuals, and persons with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. Manage Your Email: If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. 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Organized Crime and Gang Section State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization Antitrust Division (ATR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020 State California Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization Antitrust Division (ATR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Academic Year 2019/2020 State New York Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization Antitrust Division (ATR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Academic Year 2019/2020 State Illinois Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization Antitrust Division (ATR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Academic Year 2019/2020 State California Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization Antitrust Division (ATR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Academic Year 2019/2020 State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Job Title CLC Attorney State Indiana Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of West Virginia Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State West Virginia Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization Civil Division (CIV) Job Title Trial Attorney-Torts Branch/Federal Tort Claims Act Section State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Virginia Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Virginia Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Spring 2020 (Human Rights and Special Prosecutions Section) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated August 23, 2019 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sanho817 at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 16:23:50 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 11:23:50 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Non-Profits Message-ID: All, Can a legal non-profit represent SSI/SSDI cases for a contingency fee? Someone made an ambiguous statement yesterday which caused me to wonder, but I can't find anything prohibiting it online. Warmth, Sanho From paezja at mail.broward.edu Fri Aug 30 16:51:24 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:51:24 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Adobe Reader DC and JAWS Message-ID: Hello everyone. For those of you using Jaws with Adobe Reader DC, how stable is it? I used to use Adobe with JAWS a while back and the main problem I had was that any document bigger than 6 pages or so tended to crash both Adobe and JAWS. When I would open documents that big, it would bring up a dialogue with detailed accessibility settings, then it would say document processing and crash. However Wednesday I had an interesting experience with NVDA, where I opened a file that was 727 pages long and the screenreader behaved just fine, so I was wondering if they had fixed their interaction with JAWS yet as well. Thanks, Jorge Jorge Paez paezja at mail.broward.edu Https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjorgepaez So you want to be a public defender? Don’t do it for the money, there isn’t enough. Don’t do it for prestige, you won’t get any. Don’t do it for the thrill of victory, victory rarely comes. Do it for love. Do it for justice. Do it for self-respect. Do it for the satisfaction of knowing you are serving others, defending the Constitution, living your ideals. The work is hard. The law is against you. The facts are against you. The judges are often against you. Sometimes even your clients are against you. But it is a great job – exhilarating, energizing, rewarding. You get to touch people’s hearts and fight for what you believe in every day.” Carol A. Brook Executive Director Federal Defender of Northern District of Illinois From paezja at mail.broward.edu Fri Aug 30 16:52:33 2019 From: paezja at mail.broward.edu (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:52:33 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Scanning documents Message-ID: <458D4784-9912-4016-B2AC-F0B5095F9D12@mail.broward.edu> Hello everyone: Just curious what you all used to scan documents and OCR? I have Openbook but it’s a nightmare so right now I always have to rely on someone else to do any kind of scanning. Jorge Paez paezja at mail.broward.edu Https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjorgepaez So you want to be a public defender? Don’t do it for the money, there isn’t enough. Don’t do it for prestige, you won’t get any. Don’t do it for the thrill of victory, victory rarely comes. Do it for love. Do it for justice. Do it for self-respect. Do it for the satisfaction of knowing you are serving others, defending the Constitution, living your ideals. The work is hard. The law is against you. The facts are against you. The judges are often against you. Sometimes even your clients are against you. But it is a great job – exhilarating, energizing, rewarding. You get to touch people’s hearts and fight for what you believe in every day.” Carol A. Brook Executive Director Federal Defender of Northern District of Illinois From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 19:29:09 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 20:29:09 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Difficulties in Reading PDFs in Adobe Reader with JAWS 2019 Message-ID: Hi All, By way of an update, a couple of days ago, I reached out to Vispero about the two key problems that folks are facing while trying to read PDF documents in Adobe Reader with JAWS. These are: (a) JAWS losing focus; and (b) para-wise navigation being impermissible. They have agreed that the line-skipping issue is a problem and have officially acknowledged it as a bug which their development team will now work on. I will also prod them to rectify the issue of the content of PDFs appearing as a large wall of text when read with JAWS, rather than in para-wise form. I would be grateful if others who have encountered these two issues could reach out to them as well, to compel them to act promptly on this. The folks you should contact are: A. Grant Patterson - GPatterson at vispero.com; and b. Bill Herzler - BHerzler at vispero.com. Thanks so much. Best, Rahul -- -- Rahul Bajaj Candidate for the BCL Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Sat Aug 31 12:58:39 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 08:58:39 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Scanning documents In-Reply-To: <458D4784-9912-4016-B2AC-F0B5095F9D12@mail.broward.edu> References: <458D4784-9912-4016-B2AC-F0B5095F9D12@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: <2CD65E21-8E97-4133-A9AE-19D34A7A16C2@gmail.com> Our files are scanned in by secretaries. I use Abbyy FineReader to convert the scans. I have also used Seeing AI in emergencies when I am at the Magistrate, for example. I haven't had the chance to try VoiceDream Scanner yet, but have only heard good things. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 30, 2019, at 12:52 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello everyone: > Just curious what you all used to scan documents and OCR? > I have Openbook but it’s a nightmare so right now I always have to rely on someone else to do any kind of scanning. > > > > Jorge Paez > paezja at mail.broward.edu > Https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjorgepaez > > So you want to be a public defender? > Don’t do it for the money, there isn’t enough. > Don’t do it for prestige, you won’t get any. > Don’t do it for the thrill of victory, victory rarely comes. > > Do it for love. Do it for justice. Do it for self-respect. > Do it for the satisfaction of knowing you are serving others, > defending the Constitution, living your ideals. > > The work is hard. The law is against you. > The facts are against you. The judges are often against you. > Sometimes even your clients are against you. > > But it is a great job – exhilarating, energizing, rewarding. > You get to touch people’s hearts > and fight for what you believe in every day.” > > Carol A. Brook > Executive Director > Federal Defender of Northern District of Illinois > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com Sat Aug 31 21:19:54 2019 From: BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com (Brian Unitt) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 21:19:54 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Scanning documents In-Reply-To: <2CD65E21-8E97-4133-A9AE-19D34A7A16C2@gmail.com> References: <458D4784-9912-4016-B2AC-F0B5095F9D12@mail.broward.edu> <2CD65E21-8E97-4133-A9AE-19D34A7A16C2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b2b9a4029c4062a5f358b94ee1719d@holsteinlaw.com> Documents in my office are scanned by staff to text searchable PDF. I use Omnipage for OCR of image PDFs I receive from other offices or courts. (I find it ironic that court rules in the California Appellate Courts require us to file text searchable PDfs but quite often the court sends out image files.) VoiceDream Scanner and Seeing AI are both very good products as well. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist in Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of kelby carlson via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2019 5:59 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: kelby carlson Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Scanning documents Our files are scanned in by secretaries. I use Abbyy FineReader to convert the scans. I have also used Seeing AI in emergencies when I am at the Magistrate, for example. I haven't had the chance to try VoiceDream Scanner yet, but have only heard good things. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 30, 2019, at 12:52 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello everyone: > Just curious what you all used to scan documents and OCR? > I have Openbook but it’s a nightmare so right now I always have to rely on someone else to do any kind of scanning. > > > > Jorge Paez > paezja at mail.broward.edu > Https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjorgepaez > > So you want to be a public defender? > Don’t do it for the money, there isn’t enough. > Don’t do it for prestige, you won’t get any. > Don’t do it for the thrill of victory, victory rarely comes. > > Do it for love. Do it for justice. Do it for self-respect. > Do it for the satisfaction of knowing you are serving others, > defending the Constitution, living your ideals. > > The work is hard. The law is against you. > The facts are against you. The judges are often against you. > Sometimes even your clients are against you. > > But it is a great job – exhilarating, energizing, rewarding. > You get to touch people’s hearts > and fight for what you believe in every day.” > > Carol A. Brook > Executive Director > Federal Defender > of Northern District of Illinois > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com From gmelconian619 at gmail.com Sat Aug 31 21:37:40 2019 From: gmelconian619 at gmail.com (gmelconian619 at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 14:37:40 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Scanning documents In-Reply-To: <<64b2b9a4029c4062a5f358b94ee1719d@holsteinlaw.com>> <<2CD65E21-8E97-4133-A9AE-19D34A7A16C2@gmail.com>> References: <<458D4784-9912-4016-B2AC-F0B5095F9D12@mail.broward.edu>> <<2CD65E21-8E97-4133-A9AE-19D34A7A16C2@gmail.com>> Message-ID: Thanks for the info. On Aug 31, 2019 at 2:22 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw wrote: Documents in my office are scanned by staff to text searchable PDF. I use Omnipage for OCR of image PDFs I receive from other offices or courts. (I find it ironic that court rules in the California Appellate Courts require us to file text searchable PDfs but quite often the court sends out image files.) VoiceDream Scanner and Seeing AI are both very good products as well. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist in Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of kelby carlson via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2019 5:59 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: kelby carlson Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Scanning documents Our files are scanned in by secretaries. I use Abbyy FineReader to convert the scans. I have also used Seeing AI in emergencies when I am at the Magistrate, for example. I haven't had the chance to try VoiceDream Scanner yet, but have only heard good things. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 30, 2019, at 12:52 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello everyone: > Just curious what you all used to scan documents and OCR? > I have Openbook but it’s a nightmare so right now I always have to rely on someone else to do any kind of scanning. > > > > Jorge Paez > paezja at mail.broward.edu > Https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjorgepaez > > So you want to be a public defender? > Don’t do it for the money, there isn’t enough. > Don’t do it for prestige, you won’t get any. > Don’t do it for the thrill of victory, victory rarely comes. > > Do it for love. Do it for justice. Do it for self-respect. > Do it for the satisfaction of knowing you are serving others, > defending the Constitution, living your ideals. > > The work is hard. The law is against you. > The facts are against you. The judges are often against you. > Sometimes even your clients are against you. > > But it is a great job – exhilarating, energizing, rewarding. > You get to touch people’s hearts > and fight for what you believe in every day.” > > Carol A. Brook > Executive Director > Federal Defender > of Northern District of Illinois > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gmelconian619%40gmail.com From agtolentino at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 18:09:01 2019 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 11:09:01 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Scanning documents In-Reply-To: <458D4784-9912-4016-B2AC-F0B5095F9D12@mail.broward.edu> References: <458D4784-9912-4016-B2AC-F0B5095F9D12@mail.broward.edu> Message-ID: <2B6D9C7F-B8AC-4EE2-A8C8-798F765CE3D8@gmail.com> My go to for scanning is Kurzweil 1000. What issues are you having with OpenBook? > On Aug 30, 2019, at 9:52 AM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello everyone: > Just curious what you all used to scan documents and OCR? > I have Openbook but it’s a nightmare so right now I always have to rely on someone else to do any kind of scanning. > > > > Jorge Paez > paezja at mail.broward.edu > Https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjorgepaez > > So you want to be a public defender? > Don’t do it for the money, there isn’t enough. > Don’t do it for prestige, you won’t get any. > Don’t do it for the thrill of victory, victory rarely comes. > > Do it for love. Do it for justice. Do it for self-respect. > Do it for the satisfaction of knowing you are serving others, > defending the Constitution, living your ideals. > > The work is hard. The law is against you. > The facts are against you. The judges are often against you. > Sometimes even your clients are against you. > > But it is a great job – exhilarating, energizing, rewarding. > You get to touch people’s hearts > and fight for what you believe in every day.” > > Carol A. Brook > Executive Director > Federal Defender of Northern District of Illinois > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com