[blindLaw] ABYY FineReader Stability with Jaws?

Mon Aug 5 21:47:51 UTC 2019

Laura

Briefly, as noted in my previous emails, I convert to text files, not
to pdfs. I do this as follows:
1. I get the pdfs in a folder.
2. I select them and go to omnipage on the file menu and click convert to text.
3. My text files appear.

It is a very simple process. Usually this takes a matter of a minute
or 2. If you had 20 substantial files, it might take 5 minutes, maybe
10 minutes for 20 very large files.

I've been doing this for years and I have found it effective.

Converting to text files has the added benefit that you can copy and
paste from the other side's documents.

In this jurisdiction, legal documents such as submissions (what you
would call briefs) affidavits etc. are generally numbered by paragraph
and that helps a lot. However, I am high-lighting that on occasion you
won't get the page numbers and that is a problem when it arises.

I'm sorry if that's not helpful.

On 8/5/19, Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why shouldn't we insist on Adobe creating a better OCR solution?  Also, the
> issues being raised have to do with Jaws losing focus, inexplicably
> jumping around the document, and not navigating properly as you scan
> by paragraph or line.  Unless i'm mistaken, that has nothing to do
> with OCR capability.  And if it does, then it only highlights that the
> solutions provided by Jaws and Adobe are inadequate for the task,
> since people are using these functions and still getting rather paltry
> results.  It also doesn't make sense, given that people have reported
> a marked downturn in Adobe's performance as of late with Jaws.  So
> perhaps the issue is we're simply discussing two different things.
>
> As for my previous email, thank you for bringing your interpretation
> of it to my attention.  However, I've reread it, and I don't think
> there is anything disrespectful about its tone, except perhaps that I
> didn't give exact concrete data about how many files I'm dealing with
> and how frequently assignments are given and expected back the same
> day.  The suggested overnight solution is just not viable.  And I
> don't think it would be viable in many competitive high-paced working
> environments.   (Again, I am in no way commenting on your own personal
> working environment.  I'm making a general statement based on the
> general proposition that, oftentimes in high-paced environments,
> associates are given hours not a full business day or overnight to
> complete a task, and these minutes add up).  I hope that clarifies my
> point.
>
> Angie, I do get your point, and thank you.  My point is, if you take
> those minutes, let's just say even five minutes per document, or even
> 3, and then say you have to review twenty files.  Those minutes add up
> quite quickly.  Just like the track change issue.  Sure, if you've got
> ten to review, no big deal.  When you're talking about 600 changes, it
> matters
> a whole lot more.  So I completely hear you, but just like at some
> point the "a little extra time" approach to track changes veers into
> "I can't actually or I am severely struggling to complete my duties"
> territory, so too with converting pdfs.  And again, my main point
> doesn't even have to do with converting.  It has to do with the fact
> that I have a pdf that Adobe is reading just fine.  It's not
> presenting as blank or empty.  But in the course of reading, Jaws
> becomes frenetic and starts jumping all over the document.  This
> happens with multiple documents, and others have stated they
> experience the same.  It seems like there must be a solution to this
> that does not involve saving to another doc type (since Adobe seems
> able to read it), but only involves stabilizing Adobe and Jaws.
>
> For that reason, I'm still interested in your and Ger's experience
> using Nuance to batch
> convert.  Did you or do you have the issue of Jaws jumping around when
> you do not use Nuance to first convert the pdf to another pdf?  Does
> Adobe appear more stable when you're using a nuance-converted pdf?
> Ger, it sounds like you are not having the issues that I am
> describing.  So if you are using Nuance to ocr and tag documents and
> those documents are then stable in Adobe, that would be a wonderful
> and welcome development!
>
> Thanks,
> Laura
>
>
>
> On 8/5/19, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Angie’s comments are well made. I would only add that if the document
>> contains paragraph numbers those are a good and reliable reference
>>
>> On Mon 5 Aug 2019 at 20:52 Angela Matney via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Laura, one quick observation: Without addressing the need for precision
>>> when, say, referring to line numbers or making other references to the
>>> PDFs
>>> that are required for your job, I just want to add that converting files
>>> to
>>> another format may not take the amount of time one might expect,
>>> particularly if you use a mainstream solution. I don’t know how long it
>>> takes Kurzweil to convert a PDF because I don’t use that product. In the
>>> past, I’ve used Abbyy Finereader; nowadays, I use Nuance Power PDF. Each
>>> of
>>> these can OCR a file of several hundred pages in a matter of minutes and
>>> give good results, barring handwriting or other unusual attributes of
>>> the
>>> file. I’m in no way saying that we don’t need a better way to access PDF
>>> files directly; I’m just suggesting that converting a PDF to Word or
>>> another format of choice isn’t necessarily a process that takes hours
>>> and
>>> hours.
>>>
>>> Having said this, it’s certainly true that if you have many, many files,
>>> there will be a good amount of time involved. This has happened to me
>>> before (involving due diligence for a merger and documents from the
>>> other
>>> side’s data room). But I’m not sure that the method I used ultimately
>>> took
>>> more time than I would have spent performing OCR on the PDFs, which
>>> would
>>> have had to be done in any case because they were images.
>>>
>>> I can’t comment on using any of these applications to read PDFs
>>> directly.
>>> In my mind, converting files to another format is analogous to printing
>>> vs
>>> reading the PDF on-screen, and while it’s not perfect, it generally
>>> works
>>> for my purposes.
>>>
>>> I hope you’re able to find a solution quickly.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US
>>> Attorney at Law
>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]<http://www.loeb.com/>
>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP
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