[blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to the Public
Aimee Harwood
awildheir at gmail.com
Wed Aug 28 19:02:18 UTC 2019
Kelby,
Thank you for the suggestions. As for the conversions, they felt they provided accessible materials because the PDFs were searchable. They did not have the administrative manpower to convert the books despite my assertion of its common practice even at the community college level. I provided the NFB's documentation on making documents accessible but they did not think they were required to do any more than a searchable pdf. I should have filed an ocr complaint from the beginning. I wish there was something I could do now.
Aimee
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> I have never heard of a law school with these sorts of policies.
>
> Was there a reason they could not convert the PDFs to Word or HTML?
> Even Adobe Acrobat can do that with reasonable success, not to mention
> more advanced OCR software.
>
> I've also never heard of being forbidden to ask a Lexis/Westlaw rep
> for assistance with using their sites for research. This sounds like
> an unusual and sub-par law school--I can tell you that my experience
> was nothing like this.
>
> Additionally, there are some free resources for searching case law out
> there, though they aren't wonderful. Besides that, it might also be
> worth Googling your topics to see if you can find law review
> articles--a lot of law schools put them online for free, and it might
> be a place to start.
>
>
>
>> On 8/28/19, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It is a very small school. Bret, the law
>> librarian I worked with was in fact helpful. When we learned about legal
>> research there, they skipped over the print materials and the catalogue
>> because I would be able to find everything I needed on lexis and westlaw. I
>> do not assume, per se, to experience resistance. However, based on prior
>> experience, I suspect strongly the possibility. In other words, I hope to be
>> met with willingness but want to be prepared based on historical behavior.
>> Bret, however nice he is, will still have to go to the same people who gave
>> me so much resistance before. Unless, now that I think about it, there is a
>> different person handling accommodations for the public than the person who
>> handles accommodations for students. 🤔 I might be on to something here.
>> Would this be the person who handles title IX? I know this is covered by
>> title IV of the ADA but I know they have a specific title IX person. Until
>> now I've been thinking it would be the same channel for students but i might
>> need to go through someone entirely different.🤔
>>
>> As for locating info on VR. I am looking for binding precedents relevant to
>> my situation. Thus the need for case law.
>>
>> As for Aira, I have informed the school of the service and availability of
>> the site access program. I highly doubt they have moved on the suggestion.
>> It was suggested that the school would not admit a blind student in the
>> future due to their inability to provide services based on administrative
>> burden. So, I doubt they will become a Site Access Location for Aira because
>> they will not have a need or compelling reason to do it.
>>
>> Aimee
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke via BlindLaw
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Amy,
>>>
>>> I believe you can find information regarding rehabilitation services
>>> online without using any of the law databases. It should be rather easy to
>>> find the Rehabilitation Act as amended online. However, since each state
>>> has their own procedures and policies regarding vocational rehabilitation
>>> services, it would be wise to contact your state vocational rehabilitation
>>> agency to obtain a copy of the state plan regarding vocational
>>> rehabilitation services for your particular state.
>>>
>>> Also, if the library is able to assist you in finding print copies of what
>>> you are looking for in terns of your research, is there any way that it
>>> could simply be scanned so you can access it on your own? It would seem
>>> reasonable for the library to provide the public with a way of being able
>>> to copy or save the print materials they find in the library if they are
>>> not able to gain access to it using the databases.
>>>
>>> I understand you encountered some trouble with this college or university
>>> before when you were a student. However, were your problems directly with
>>> the staff at the library? If not, then I would give them a chance before
>>> assuming you will encounter problems with them.
>>>
>>> It has been my experience that simply because you encounter unfriendly
>>> people in one department of a college or university that it does not
>>> automatically mean that you will be treated the same way when working with
>>> other people who work in a different department. So I encourage yu to give
>>> the people in the library a chance before assuming they will not be
>>> willing to work with you.
>>>
>>> As a student I have also learned that a preferred accommodation is not
>>> always a reasonable accommodation that a college or university can
>>> provide. For example, if the library is not able to install JAWS or NVDA
>>> on one of their computers, but instead provides you with a reader that is
>>> willing to help you, then they are providing you with a reasonable
>>> accommodation even though it may not be your preferred accommodation.
>>>
>>> Finally, have you contacted Aira to see if they have become a site access
>>> since you were a student at this particular college or university? Or is
>>> there a way to use BE My Eyes instead of Aira to help you conduct yur
>>> research? I am not familiar with these services, so I am not sure if there
>>> is a vast difference between them except for the fact that one is free and
>>> the other requires a paid subscription for extended use.
>>>
>>> I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to conduct your research.
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aimee
>>> Harwood via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:03 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood <awildheir at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open to
>>> the Public
>>>
>>> Hi Maura,
>>>
>>> I cannot see them being willing to provide an assistant to help me locate
>>> and reed the print materials. I will most likely be conducting in-depth
>>> research regarding a few topics. I intend to be there during the entire
>>> time it is open to the public. It may take a couple weeks. Could take more
>>> than a couple weeks.
>>>
>>> Broad Topic 1: Vocational Rehabilitation Services what they can and cannot
>>> do.
>>>
>>> Broad Topic 2: Sidewalks, the ADA, and the blind
>>>
>>> Broad Topic 3: Public Transportation, the ADA, and the Blind
>>>
>>> With this said, it would be more realistic for them to allow access to
>>> lexis and westlaw.
>>>
>>> Maybe I should contact lexis and westlaw to see what their position on a
>>> situation such as this would be.🤔
>>>
>>> Aimee
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Are independent access and reasonable accommodations equivalent?
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Maura Kutnyak
>>>> 716-563-9882
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks James. That's what I was thinking.
>>>>>
>>>>> My issue then is how do I, independently, make use of the print material
>>>>> available? Would Lexis and westlaw be an accommodation for the print
>>>>> materials?
>>>>>
>>>>> Aimee
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw
>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably, because you would be requesting a "fundamental alteration" to
>>>>>> their services available to the public and possibly asking them to
>>>>>> breach their agreement with Westlaw and Lexis, if there is one, to
>>>>>> restrict it to law students. However, you can request that Jaws or NVDA
>>>>>> be installed on the public access computers. If they fight you on that,
>>>>>> then you have every right to make a lot of noise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/27/2019 1:48 PM, Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>>>>> Ok, guys. I visited the law library web site and looked at their
>>>>>>> policies. They only give access to free resources for the general
>>>>>>> public.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is exactly what it says.
>>>>>>> "Commercial databases are for use by students, faculty and staff of
>>>>>>> Widener Law Commonwealth.
>>>>>>> Off-campus access to the library databases is restricted to law school
>>>>>>> students, faculty and staff. Login requires the barcode number on the
>>>>>>> back of your Widener ID card.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Patrons are permitted to use designated computers to search the
>>>>>>> library catalog and access free resources. Assistance is provided as
>>>>>>> needed. Library personnel can assist with research but will not
>>>>>>> conduct research on behalf of patrons. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does this indicate I cannot request access to lexis and westlaw as an
>>>>>>> accommodation?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aimee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> George:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At the time I met with the Assistant County Administrator, they spoke
>>>>>>>> with Westlaw, Lexus and JAWS. To safeguard all interested parties'
>>>>>>>> licensing agreements, putting JAWS on their computer was their
>>>>>>>> solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was fine with me as the County Law Library is now accessible to
>>>>>>>> all blind residents as long as they know how to use JAWS. And I'm
>>>>>>>> sure that's more than what the other 253 counties in Texas are doing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>> Aimee Harwood via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:25 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library
>>>>>>>> Open to the Public
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This would be a wonderful solution. I would be happy to bring my own
>>>>>>>> computer. I am concerned they will refuse me access to lexis and
>>>>>>>> westlaw though. If they do refuse me access to lexis and westlaw,
>>>>>>>> would that count? Would I then be able to file against them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Aimee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jorge Paez via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniel:
>>>>>>>>> Why would they need to install JAWS?
>>>>>>>>> Couldn???t you just bring your own computer and get set up with
>>>>>>>>> their network either through Ethernet or Wifi?
>>>>>>>>> I???m guessing you???d use your library information to authenticate
>>>>>>>>> with their Lexis or WestLaw licenses?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Daniel McBride via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Broward College. DO
>>>>>>>>>> NOT click links or open attachments unless are expecting the
>>>>>>>>>> information and you recognize the sender.
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Aimee:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The law library I use is the Tarrant County Law Library, operated
>>>>>>>>>> by the
>>>>>>>>>> County and funded by taxpayers money, which might make a
>>>>>>>>>> difference.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In any event, some years back, I approached the Assistant County
>>>>>>>>>> Administrator about my access to the library materials. He asked
>>>>>>>>>> what could
>>>>>>>>>> be done to provide access to persons who are blind and we discussed
>>>>>>>>>> JAWS.
>>>>>>>>>> The County purchased JAWS and installed same on their public access
>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>>>> in the front of the library. With this, I have access to every
>>>>>>>>>> research
>>>>>>>>>> platform imaginable, including Lexus and Westlaw.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, a conversation with the appropriate authority solves
>>>>>>>>>> this type of
>>>>>>>>>> issue. Sometimes not. The worst they can do is say no.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daniel McBride
>>>>>>>>>> Fort Worth
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>> Aimee
>>>>>>>>>> Harwood via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Aimee Harwood
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindLaw] Accommodations When Visiting a Law Library Open
>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>> Public
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm really not sure why nobody has responded to this. I'm politely
>>>>>>>>>> asking
>>>>>>>>>> for your advise. Surely someone here can offer a suggestion or two.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm resending this email as I need to do a good bit of legal
>>>>>>>>>> research very
>>>>>>>>>> soon. I have requested assistance from this list for the below
>>>>>>>>>> concerns. I
>>>>>>>>>> expect difficulties at the location I must utilize to conduct this
>>>>>>>>>> research.
>>>>>>>>>> Can you guys please read and advise on the below information. I
>>>>>>>>>> want to be
>>>>>>>>>> fully prepared to respond appropriately when I face the expected
>>>>>>>>>> resistance
>>>>>>>>>> for accommodations. If there are additional details needed to
>>>>>>>>>> effectively
>>>>>>>>>> answer my questions, I will be glad to provide for clarification. I
>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>> do need your assistance and most certainly appreciate any thoughts
>>>>>>>>>> and or
>>>>>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have a few questions about (1) access at law libraries open to
>>>>>>>>>> the public,
>>>>>>>>>> (2) possible accommodations, and (3) if denied accommodations
>>>>>>>>>> filing an OCR
>>>>>>>>>> complaint that possibly includes prior issues I experienced there
>>>>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>>>>> student.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (1) Has anybody had experience visiting a law library and receiving
>>>>>>>>>> accommodations to permit them to do independant legal research? I
>>>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>>>> visit a law library to do some legal research. The closest one is
>>>>>>>>>> the school
>>>>>>>>>> I attended and had so much problems with regarding accommodations.
>>>>>>>>>> Before I
>>>>>>>>>> go, I would like to know my rights for accessing content at the
>>>>>>>>>> library as a
>>>>>>>>>> member of the public.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (2) What accommodations can I request? Can I request a computer
>>>>>>>>>> with JAWS
>>>>>>>>>> and access to lexis and westlaw? I have sent them info on Aira
>>>>>>>>>> since I was
>>>>>>>>>> dismissed hoping they would utilize it if they ever had another
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>> student in the future. Could I ask for them to provide Aira access?
>>>>>>>>>> I do not
>>>>>>>>>> have a paid Aira subscription and cannot afford one at the moment.
>>>>>>>>>> So that
>>>>>>>>>> avenue will only be helpful if they are a site access.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (3) If I do not get any of the assistance you recommend, can I file
>>>>>>>>>> an OCR
>>>>>>>>>> complaint for this incident? Is it possible to relate it back to
>>>>>>>>>> the issues
>>>>>>>>>> I had as a student?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I greatly appreciate any and all advice in this matter as I have
>>>>>>>>>> been very
>>>>>>>>>> hesitent to do the research but it really needs to be done. Most
>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>> was a fight with them. I have been very apprehensive to approach
>>>>>>>>>> them with
>>>>>>>>>> this request.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Aimee
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>>>>>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Kelby Carlson
>
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