[blindlaw] Seeking guidance
Rahul Bajaj
rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com
Thu Jan 3 20:54:53 UTC 2019
Hi,
I thought it would be useful to share a set of insights which I have
acquired through my conversation with Judge David Szumowski, a former
court of arraignment judge who is blind. When I had interviewed him
last year, he had stated that you will do will in your legal career if
you were a top student in law school, whether or not you have a
disability and essentially made it appear that having a disability is
a nonissue in today's day and age. I put to him the experiences of
James, Laura and others, who've acknowledged that discrimination is
still alive and kicking, albeit not in a very overt form. Here's what
his reply was:
"I've given some thought to the issue presented in #6 [point 6 of
James' email about not getting recruited by even a single Ohio law
firm despite excellent grades] and may be reassessing my position
here.
I do think top students from top schools will more likely succeed with
a disability. I think this primarily because they have already proven
they can
succeed by being at a top school and doing well there.
I do recognize that humans have flaws and can be narrow-minded on a
variety of measures. Certainly disability is a factor where potential
employers can
choose to either overlook the obvious disability and focus on whether
the candidate can be a productive fit for the business-in this case
law and billable
hours, or public sector work. If the employer is honest with
him/herself, and somewhat enlightened, they will try to make it work
if the candidate has
other requisite skills and brain power.
Naturally, Not all business/firm opportunities will have the proper
focus. So, I think these fortunate candidates need to not only sell
their skills,
but also need to be prepared to deflect the hidden, or maybe open bias
against hiring the disabled person. I'm not prepared to say how that
should be
done, but not anticipating the hesitancy is a mistake.
I think gaining as much experience prior to the job interview is
essential. One needs a track record to point out where he/she has
excelled in a variety
of work situations where the disability was not an issue. Support
from those who observe the success would be very helpful in achieving
a better outcome.
Having said this, I am not saying it will be easy for the top people.
Sure, America has the ADA and that is helpful and makes employers
aware of the need
to, in theory, set aside prejudices in the name of fairness. We know
that is not always going to happen. The public sector is, in my
experience, more
accommodating in this regard. The private sector is aware and as more
disabled people get jobs, prove themselves, make their success known
within employment
circles , and in the public generally, then awareness becomes more
widespread. This helps other opportunities open up, or at least I
would like to think
so.
Often, the disabled may have to bite the bullet and take on the effort
alone and do his/her best.
Much of what I have said so far also applies to those who are not top
students or from top schools. They will not have the credentials of
the schools
going for them. So, it will be harder and the success rate is likely,
unfortunately, to be less. I can only say that persistence, hard-work
when opportunity
does present itself, and a positive attitude helps to show potential
employers that the candidate is not giving up. It always helps to
make contacts and
let others in the profession know about you, your legal interests,
skills, and how you actually do your work. Let's face it,
non-disabled rarely think
about how they would do anything with a given disability. So, when
they meet you, they can't imagine how to do it with that specific
disability. This
is the big obstacle for anyone-changing their thinking.
It isn't easy, and you can't quit trying. I know America may have a
better opportunity than other countries, but I am not sure of that
statement. The
disabled are a vocal group in America and some disabilities are more
vocal than others. I think the blind and the wheelchair bound are the
most well-known
for fighting for equality in hiring and rights.
The battle will be more successful when the business communities
including the legal profession, recognize ability, not disability.
I was not a top student and not sure where Denver School of Law
ranked, but I struggled early with blindness, found other work and did
well, had early
struggles with the law business before catching some breaks, taking
advantage of o[opportunities, and being in the right place at the
right time with the
right politics and professional backing to land well for a successful career.
I'm blessed and grateful. The publicity I had over 20 years has, I
hope, opened some doors for others to more easily find success. The
woman working
for Justice Thomas is a great story and that will help others in my opinion.
Let me end this with a simple observation. We all can't do what we
think we would like to do. There are several reasons that some
opportunities don't
work out for us. Skill or lack thereof, intellectual capacity,
financial wherewithal, physical ability, or even just simple luck. We
just do the best
we can with what we have. Life is like a card game-you may just have
to play the cards you are dealt.
Often, the disabled have to deal their own hand in life and that may
include borrowing for school, borrowing to work alone, and facing the
daunting obstacle
of making a living in a tough business. The legal education is
expensive, the work often grueling and financial reward marginal.
Today, there are more
lawyers here than there is work, so many struggle finding suitable
employment even when not disabled. It is a tough decision as to
whether to enter the
profession at all these day."
Best,
Rahul
On 28/12/2018, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I agree with Jim's conclusion. If you have any uncertainty or merely a vague
> interest in a legal career, I would advise against law school. However, if
> you have a very specific goal which requires a law degree, I would say go
> for it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jim McCarthy via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 10:30 AM
> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jim McCarthy <jmccarthy at mdtap.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Seeking guidance
>
> I am going to piggyback off what Laura said. I went to law school, but it
> has been several years ago at this point so other commenters, most who have
> commented, are closer to that experience. I kind of enjoyed law school in a
> tortured manner. What I mean is that I really liked spending time with a
> collection of very bright people, matching wits in writing and orally with
> them, and acquiring a knowledge base that applies to almost everything we do
> in some way. I came out with lots of debt, which you say you are prepared to
> do. I never had a law job and haven't had any position that required a law
> degree. I've made a decent living and believe my law degree may have been a
> plus factor in some cases for positions I received, but it never has been
> required. An MPA would have been much less costly. I will pay for law school
> until I am 61 years old, though I make enough that those payments are not
> terrible. Today's cost is greater than mine was though and I was younger
> than you are now when I made the choice. Many who take on something like law
> school once they have families really struggle with the time commitment and
> how to balance family and such. One of the things I appreciated about my
> experience is that my only responsibilities were me and later my dog guide.
> Completing law school proved a great confidence boost for me at a period
> having one was important. I myopically focused on law school as that next
> step though and in retrospect, there probably were other directions that
> would have worked better in my life. I think there will be lots of
> occasions, if you go the law rout, when you find yourself wondering if that
> was really what you meant to do. I'd say that if you are ambivalent about
> it, take a different direction.
> Best
> Jim McCarthy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
> via BlindLaw
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 6:14 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Laura Wolk
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Seeking guidance
>
> Since Kelby mentioned me, I figured I'd pop in with my two cents, especially
> because I fall somewhere between the two of you.
>
> I don't think anyone should go to law school unless he has a pretty darn
> good idea of what, exactly, he plans to do at the end of the day.
> Obviously plans can change and life can intervene, but I think that if you
> apply to law school thinking "I want to be a lawyer" with nothing gmore
> specific than that, or if you go in saying "I could see myself in government
> or maybe a small firm or maybe doing civil rights or maybe, maybe..." you're
> doing it wrong. I think this largely for the reasons that Kelby has
> articulated--it's not worth the debt, time, bad job prospects, and
> psychological fatigue of battling discrimination, especially if one already
> has gainful employment and is supporting a family. In short, the J.D. is a
> professional, practical degree, and a person should have a professional,
> practical reason for getting one.
> Basically, I don't buy into the "follow your heart" mentality. no offense
> to anyone who has written advocating for that, but I just disagree.
>
> I also largely do agree that one should not attend law school unless one
> gets an offer from at least a top 50 law school but preferably top 25.
> There are reasons to deviate from this. For instance, if the school you are
> aiming for places really well in that specific local area or region, go for
> it. Duquesne and Pitt law schools, for instance, can get top ranking
> students great jobs in Pittsburgh. So if a person feels committed to being
> in PGH, they might be a good fit for a prospective student. Otherwise,
> probably best to save your time and money.
>
> I actually deviated from this presumption myself. Notre Dame moves in and
> out of the top 25 for a number of reasons (many of which, according to my
> totally biased opinion, reflect how inaccurate the ranking system is). It
> was a hard decision, but I turned down better financial packages from more
> highly ranked schools because receiving Catholic formation alongside my
> legal education was extremely important to me, and I wanted to learn from
> folks who view originalism and textualism as legitimate modes of
> interpretation instead of something to laugh away in a footnote. It was one
> of the best decisions I ever made, but if I had just picked the most highly
> ranked place I got into because I had only a broad sense of what I wanted to
> do with the law instead of a better sense of my specific vocation, I would
> never have ended up beginning my career in such a blessed way.
>
> Lastly, as to James point, so much of starting one's legal career is about
> who you know, disabled or otherwise. I'd be happy to speak more about my
> experiences on this specific topic off-list, but here all I will say is
> that, depending on one's specific goals and desires, having a team of people
> in your corner isn't just helpful, it's 100% necessary.
>
> Laura
>
> On 12/26/18, Luis Mendez via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Good evening:
>>
>> An MPA will certainly enable you to obtain public sector employment at
>> a fairly high level of compensation. An MPA plus successful job
>> experience may also facilitate, though not guarantee, opportunities
>> for promotion, including promotion to high level appointed executive
> positions. A law
>> degree might, but would not necessarily enhance those opportunities.
>> However, a law degree could open opportunities for legal employment
>> in either the public or private sector, including enhancing
>> opportunities to provide policy and legislative consulting services.
>> Although I practiced law in the public sector, my MPA proved helpful
>> in assisting my employer to address office management issues and
>> managing the work of consultants and other contractors. If I can be of
>> further help please don't hesitate to contact me.
>>
>> Luis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Maura
>> Kutnyak via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 11:45 AM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Maura Kutnyak <maurakutnyak at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Seeking guidance
>>
>> Where to start?
>> First, I thank you all for taking time to supply thoughtful
>> responses. In addition too the many possible stumbling blocks
>> outlined, I suffer from a large measure of ambivalence. Presumably
>> the only way to know for sure if I want to be a lawyer is to undertake
>> and complete the process.
>> What follows will be largely autobiographical and likely too long. My
>> gratitude to those who devote time to reading.
>>
>> At the beginning of December on my 36 birthday I quit a call center
>> job at the nonprofit which supplies services to the blind in western
>> NY. I was employed there from the age of 19 in essentially the same
> position.
>> What I want out of law school and life in general is to be situated in
>> employment which is stimulating, has opportunity for upward mobility
>> and pays a wage commensurate with my ability. I believe that kind of
>> work will never be supplied by agencies for the blind which hold so
>> many of us captive.
>>
>> I plan to apply to one and only one school. Because that is the
>> precise number of law schools which are at arms length. Because I
>> have young children I am not willing to bounce around in pursuit of
>> this questionable goal.
>>
>> I am closing in on having attained masters level education with no
>> student debt. This is thanks to the state agency and its support.
>> That said, I am not terrified of the prospect of loans. We own a home
>> and have other foundations laid.
>>
>> Based on almost no firsthand information, I do not want to work at a
>
>> firm. I am completing my masters in public administration so the hope
>> is that a JD. would support employment in government at a reasonably
>> high level to start. So a pivot point for me is, would the law degree
>> get me closer to the wage and policy oriented type of work in which I
>> am interested? Or, would diving right into civil service exams and a
>> low level position ultimately be a faster path to meaningful work?
>> Either way once I finish this masters I will be committing to at least
>> full time work. Directly in the bureaucracy or in the hallowed halls
>> of UB law school. By the way, its a comfort to know that UB is in
>> good company accepting the GRE.
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> Maura
>> On Dec 26, 2018, at 10:05 AM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I think this question has been framed the wrong way. The real
>>> question is,
>> or should be, do you want to become a lawyer? If so, then law school
>> is the only means to that end, , for better or worse.
>>>
>>> A few points:
>>>
>>> 1. Law school is expensive; no doubt about that. But there are ways
>>> to
>> mitigate that expense: scholarships, loan repayment assistance
>> programs for people with public interest jobs, etc. I went into the
>> application process knowing that I did not want to pay a dime in
>> tuition. I got an LSAT score that was good enough but nothing to
>> write home about and landed a full tuition scholarship to Ohio
>> State--a bit below my desired ranking cutoff but good for me for a
>> variety of other reasons. So I went and have no regrets, albeit a bit
>> less hair than I did before starting.
>>>
>>> 2. The LSAT is hard. Sure it is, but it is more than possible to do
>>> well
>> with self-study using prep materials. The only problem is the games
>> section, for which there are no accessible study aids--at least not to
>> my knowledge.
>>>
>>> 3. Law school is a huge time suck. Sure it is, as is grad school, as
>>> is
>> just about every other intense form of career preparation.
>>>
>>> 4. The legal job market is terrible. It's not great, but it is a ton
>> better than the academic job market. Take my word for it.
>>>
>>> 5. Only lower-tier schools accept the GRE. Well, no, since Harvard
>>> now
>> accepts the GRE.
>>>
>>> 6. There's no point in going to law school unless you are in the T20.
>> Again no, because plenty of law grads outside the T20, and even
>> outside of tier 1 schools, get jobs. The real problem is, and
>> continues to be, employment discrimination. I finished in the top 10%
>> of my class at Ohio State, was on law review, and checked all the
>> other boxes that big firms like. Guess how many big firms in Ohio
>> wanted me? That would be zero. But I landed a job at a great firm, and
>> although I don't like talking salary, let's say it's higher than $35k.
>>>
>>> 7. Law school is a scam. Again, not really, at least not unless
>>> you're
>> looking at the huge diploma mills with terrible job placement numbers.
>> Whatever else you do, look at your desired school's job placement
>> numbers, NALP tracks these. If they're too low for you, then write
>> that school off and move on.
>>>
>>> On 12/25/2018 5:35 PM, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>> I am going to be the contrarian here and say that, absent some very
>>>> specific circumstances, you probably should not go to law school. I
>>>> will explain why at some length.
>>>>
>>>> First, law school is extremely expensive. We are talking at least
>>>> $40,000 per year, and considerably more than that if you want to
>>>> attend a good school (which you do, as I'll get to in a moment.)
>>>> There are scholarships, of course, but they are competitive and
>>>> there aren't that many. If you are planning on being an evening
>>>> student, you can add another year of tuition to your costs. You may
>>>> be able to get a state agency to pay for some of the education. I am
>>>> not sure how your vocational rehabilitation handles career
>>>> transitions like the one you envision. It is still likely, however,
>>>> that you will be taking on a considerable amount of debt. This debt
>>>> is probably going to be very difficult to pay off unless you get an
>>>> extremely high-paying
>> job.
>>>>
>>>> Let's talk about law school a little more specifically. You were
>>>> asking whether or not you should take the GRE or the LSAT. I am not
>>>> familiar with the law schools that accept GRE schools, but I suspect
>>>> they are in the minority. THe schools that will give you the best
>>>> chance at a good job will almost certainly want an LSAT score, and
>>>> your chances of getting a scholarship are considerably higher with
>>>> one. The LSAT is a demanding test. Believe me when I say that
>>>> self-study is probably not a good idea, and considerable study is
>>>> required. (I did not take a course and am positive my score suffered
>>>> for it.) As was stated above, the LSAC is miserly with
>>>> accommodations even after the 2015 consent decree requiring them to
>>>> grant more and better accommodations to those with disabilities. (I
>>>> can say this with some confidence as I just took the MPRE, which is
>>>> administered by the
>>>> LSAC.) So be prepared to pay a decent amount for a prep course, to
>>>> study a lot (and to learn nothing of relevance), and to spend
>>>> several months trying to get accommodations.
>>>>
>>>> If you get a high LSAT score, you have a better chance of getting a
>>>> spot at a good law school. If you cannot get into a top 20 law
>>>> school, you shouldn't even bother going. (I went to the Columbus
>>>> School of Law, which is underrated but still nowhere near the top.)
>>>> The top 20 schools are the only ones that give a really, really
>>>> strong chance of knabbing a high-paying job or a prestigious
>>>> clerkship right after law school. You will want one of those given
>>>> the debts you will probably accrue during your studies.
>>>>
>>>> If you go to law school, you need to realize a number of things.
>>>> First of all, you will be getting a three year education that should
>>>> probably be two or even one year. You will essentially repeat your
>>>> entire first year over again while studying for the bar exam.
>>>> Second, all law school exams and some law school papers are graded
>>>> on a
> curve.
>>>> This means that not only will you need to do very well objectively,
>>>> you will need to do better than all of your classmates consistently
>>>> over 6 semesters to maintain a high GPA. (If you are thinking about
>>>> trying for a 4.0, know that my school's head registrar said that he
>>>> has seen only one student ever receive a perfect GPA.) If you are
>>>> not in the top 10 percent of your class, finding a high-paying job
>>>> that will give you good experience will be extremely difficult
>>>> unless you are fabulous at networking.
>>>>
>>>> Keep in mind also that law school takes up all your time. if you are
>>>> an evening student with a full-time job, you will have very limited
>>>> time to spend with your family over the next four years if you want
>>>> to maintain an extremely high GPA. The material you will be studying
>>>> is extremely dry, but you will need to know all of it cold by exams.
>>>> Your exams will probably all be closed-book; if they are open-book,
>>>> however, they might actually be harder--professors will often up the
>>>> difficulty of their exams if they allow you to use the book or the
>>>> outline.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to do law review or journal as an evening student--this
>>>> is possible, I know several people who did--you will be devoting
>>>> even more time to largely thankless, tedious work for which you will
>>>> never be acknowledged. (If spending hours correcting minor
>>>> grammatical errors in citations and trying to handle MS Word's
>>>> abhorrent footnote interface appeals to you, than journal is
>>>> definitely for you.)
>>>>
>>>> So, all in all, law school itself is a tiring, unpleasant experience
>>>> that will waste a lot of your time. I am speaking as someone who
>>>> really liked his law school and has some very fond memories of it.
>>>>
>>>> Let's move on to the question of what else you will be doing in law
>>>> school. If you do not get internships after your first year during
>>>> the summer and probably every semester thereafter, you are dooming
>>>> your potential in the job market. Much like scholarships,
>>>> internships are extremely competitive but absolutely necessary if
>>>> you are going to get the most out of your legal education. You will
>>>> need to find an internship that will actually give you meaningful
>>>> work, which is harder than it sounds. You will also probably want to
>>>> find one that pays, which is extremely difficult. The best kind of
>>>> internship is a summer associate position between your second and
>>>> third years of school, but this is a full-time position that will be
>>>> harder to arrange if you are an evening students. Once again, if you
>>>> aren't extremely highly ranked in your class your chances are low.
>>>>
>>>> Let's say that you don't manage to grab a lot of paying internships,
>>>> but you do get several government internships and maintain decent
>>>> grades throughout law school (as I did). In your third year you will
>>>> then begin applying for jobs and judicial clerkships. You will
>>>> probably send out hundreds of applications and get responses from
>>>> almost no one. If you want to clerk with a federal judge, you will
>>>> have already begun applying your second year of law school because
>>>> most federal judges are looking two years out. Much like prestigious
>>>> firm jobs, federal clerkships are highly coveted because of their
>>>> resume-building potential and you will be extremely lucky to get one.
>>>> Even state clerkships will be challenging to obtain; hundreds of law
>>>> students will be applying for each one. If you are lucky you will
>>>> perhaps get around ten interviews. If you are extremely lucky you
>>>> will get offered a job by more than one employer. However, unless
>>>> you have managed to obtain a high-paying job at a large firm your
>>>> dividends will not be large. I will give you my own example: by the
>>>> time I had obtained employment out of law school it was as an
>>>> attorney in a very rural county making $35,000 a year. And you know
>>>> what? I was ecstatic when I received the offer, even though I would
>>>> be making $5,000 less a year than my wife who works as a nanny.
>>>>
>>>> So, you need to ask yourself several questions. First, can you get
>>>> into a top 20 law school? Second, what kind of law will you practice?
>>>> What makes you particularly well-equipped to do so? If you cannot
>>>> answer this question, then you will not be able to effectively plan
>>>> your career during law school. Third, are you willing to sacrifice
>>>> the time and financial rewards you could have received, and incur a
>>>> potentially large amount of debt? Fourth, can you confidently say
>>>> that you can maintain a consistently high GPA at a prestigious
>>>> school and procure good internships (which may not pay) every
>>>> semester of law school? If your answer to any of those questions is
>>>> no, you should not go.
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion, law school is worth it for almost no one and is
>>>> basically a scam. The legal job market is terrible, but law schools
>>>> will not make this clear to you because they are desperate to
>>>> maintain their student body (many of them expanded pre-recession and
>>>> are trying to recover.) If you do get a job, it will probably not
>>>> pay well, and it it does you may very well end up hating it, because
>>>> the legal profession is nothing like how it is portrayed on television.
>>>> This video is essentially accurate:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM7K0LtkAvs
>>>>
>>>> I hate to be the one to rain on everyone's parade. I'm sure there
>>>> will be many people who disagree with me here, some perhaps
>>>> justifiably (Laura Wook, a member of this list, clerks for Clarence
>>>> Thomas.) But I feel that I needed to state these things because a
>>>> lot of people will not.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Kelby Carlson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/24/18, Nicole Poston via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> All,This is a very interesting thread for me. In some ways, I am
>>>>> not like Maura....I do not have children of my own. However, I
>>>>> have in the last few years been encouraged by numerous individuals
>>>>> in practically every facet of my life to consider the idea of going
>>>>> to law school. Like Maura, I would be considered a non-traditional
>>>>> student and I do not have any interest in working at some big NYC
>>>>> law firm...my expectations are more reasonable. I am currently in
>>>>> my 17th year of my current professional career and have a masters
>>>>> degree I finished like 10 years ago. I'm required in my current
>>>>> profession to get at least 6 credit hours every 5 years, which I
>>>>> have done online...but that has been the extent of my recent
>>>>> experiences
>> at the collegiate level. I definitely have an interest in pursuing
>> law but the
>>>>> idea of leaping into a completely new realm is definitely daunting.
>>>>> I
>>>>> guess one of my nagging questions is.... can some of law school be
>>>>> done while still working? Or does one need to plan on just doing
>>>>> law school and putting work aside for those few years? Any advice
>>>>> on this or anything else you might find helpful is welcome and
>>>>> appreciated, either on this thread or privately.
>>>>> Happy Holidays!Nicole
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bill Spiry via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: b.s.spiry <b.s.spiry at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Mon, Dec 24, 2018 5:46 pm
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Seeking guidance
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings Maura.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can relate to your itch to go for your J.D. despite what some may
>>>>> be telling you are bad odds for success. I took that plunge at the
>>>>> age of 48 with an established 22 year professional career already
>>>>> behind me, married, couple of teenage kids still at home, and
>>>>> plenty of uncertainty. It was Scary as hell, and what my heart was
>>>>> telling me to do. I paid a price for it and I do not regret my
> decision.
>>>>>
>>>>> So that is my first advice, take the time to listen carefully to
>>>>> your heart on this. You need to do it because it's what is right
>>>>> for you, not for anyone else. And if it is right for you and you
>>>>> know it, ignore those who will try to convince you that you'd be
>>>>> crazy to do it as someone without sight (including other blind
>>>>> lawyers).
>>>>>
>>>>> for the most part, I agree with the comments and advice from others
>>>>> on this list regarding testing and strategy. So know this, yeah,
>>>>> it's going to be damned hard and you're going to hit some walls
>>>>> that will be tough to get around/over/through but you probably know
>>>>> if you've got the metal for it in you. So go for it if you know
>>>>> it's right for you and you believe you've got the metal to find
>>>>> your way through some unique challenges. Follow your heart.
>>>>>
>>>>> My best wishes to you and yours for the holidays and the new year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Spiry
>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>> Spiry Law LLC
>>>>> (541) 600-3301
>>>>> Bill at SpiryLaw.com
>>>>> Bill.spiry at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "what's within you is stronger than what's in your way" - Erik
>>>>> Weihenmayer
>>>>>
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>>>>> Be aware that Email transmissions may not be secure. Third parties
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>>>>> communicate with Spiry law LLC, you assume the risk that any
>>>>> confidential or privileged information may be intercepted and
>>>>> viewed by
>> third persons.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Maura
>>>>> Kutnyak via BlindLaw
>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 7:42 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Maura Kutnyak <maurakutnyak at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Seeking guidance
>>>>>
>>>>> One more thing, having sent this message from your iPhone, did you
>>>>> use a separate keyboard or have you found the Braille input useful?
>>>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 9:27 AM, James Fetter via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> First of all, I agree with Paul. If this is your dream, go for it.
>>>>>> Just
>>>>> know that more than a sane amount of work, work, and work, awaits you.
>>>>>> As to your questions:
>>>>>> 1. Having taken both the GRE and LSAT, I can state with a high
>>>>>> level of
>>>>> confidence that the GRE does not present half the accommodations
>>>>> barriers the LSAT does. The logic games section of the LSAT
>>>>> requires either the drawing of diagrams or the use of Excel. There
>>>>> are no accessible study aids that teach you how to use Excel to ace
>>>>> this section. And at least when I took the LSAT, getting basic
>>>>> accommodations from LSAC was like waging a war of attrition. So if
>>>>> you don't mind being limited to the programs that accept the GRE,
>>>>> then
>> do that and save yourself some pain and suffering.
>>>>>> 2. Going to law school after grad school is an interesting
>>>>>> transition. All
>>>>> of a sudden, you're in a classroom with people ten years
>>>>> younger-people who are generally used to studying for high-pressure
>>>>> exams and who seem to have an inexhaustible amount of energy. Yet,
>>>>> you will have advantages: the ability to think in different ways,
>>>>> the ability to write both well and more quickly, etc. You will be
>>>>> fine, as long as you don't get sucked into the grades/money dynamic
>>>>> (I.e. the idea that the only reason you're there is to get top
>>>>> grades so that you can land a job at a NYC law firm). Nothing wrong
>>>>> with those goals, but based on your message, they don't seem to be
>>>>> your
>> goals.
>>>>>> 3. Being blind in law school is like being blind anywhere else.
>>>>>> You'll
>>>>> need the same auxiliary aids as you would need in grad school. The
>>>>> only real difference I found is that, if you're on journal, it can
>>>>> be interesting getting accommodations from 3L's (Third-year law
>>>>> students) while you're a 2L staff editor. I had to provide a crash
>>>>> course on the ADA to 3L's, who thought accommodations were a
>>>>> courtesy
>> they could approve or deny at will.
>>>>> But I got through it just fine and am now practicing.
>>>>>> 4. Re: going through law school as a parent, I can't help much
>>>>>> there other
>>>>> than to advise finding other parents going through the same thing
>>>>> as you are. Most of your fellow students will be in their early
>>>>> 20's and still on Tinder. So find other older law students who took
>>>>> a
>> "non-traditional" path.
>>>>> Though my wife and I do not have kids, my best friends in law
>>>>> school were other older students who took non-traditional paths. In
>>>>> fact, these friendships, in addition to my wife, kept me sane
>>>>> through what would have otherwise been a very frenetic three years.
>>>>>> I hope some of this is helpful, and I wish you nothing but the best!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 8:45 AM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thank you Dr. Harpur. While maybe not practical, your words ring
>> true.
>>>>> No one can answer some of my deepest questions other than me, in
>>>>> the
>> moment.
>>>>> Again, thank you so kindly for taking the time to write.
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
>>>>>>> 716-563-9882
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 8:10 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> You never know if you can live your dream until you wake up and
>>>>>>>> take the
>>>>> plunge. Go for it!
>>>>>>>> I am based in Australia but am also an International
>>>>>>>> Distinguished
>>>>> Fellow at BBI at Syracuse University. I will let others give more
>>>>> practical advice, but my e-mail is here to encourage you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>>>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future
>>>>>>>> Scholar/International
>>>>> Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB
>>>>>>>> Profile/Google Citation Page CRICOS
>>>>>>>> code: 00025B
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>> addressee and may contain confidential information of The
>>>>> University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are
>>>>> notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or
>>>>> photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this
>>>>> email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly
>>>>> stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the
>>>>> official position of The
>> University of Queensland.
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 24 December 2018 11:05 PM
>>>>>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Maura Kutnyak <maurakutnyak at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking guidance
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello blind law participants,
>>>>>>>> I am writing with more than a little hesitation and an equal
>>>>>>>> amount of
>>>>> interest. If what follows would be better directed else where
>>>>> please point the way.
>>>>>>>> I am a blind graduate student in Buffalo NY. Under the
>>>>>>>> influence of a
>>>>> few converging forces, a slight interest in law school as a next
>>>>> step has grown to a nagging and exciting unshakable desire. More
>>>>> than a few people who have offered consultation as I explore this
>>>>> option have pointed me to the collective knowledge of this email list.
>>>>>>>> My questions range from broad ideas such as, How could I
>>>>>>>> possibly make
>>>>> my way through law school blind and a mother of three? To, what
>>>>> kinds of supports will I need? Most immediate is the question of
>>>>> which entrance test should I take? I recently learned that The
>>>>> University at Buffalo law school started accepting the GRE in
>>>>> addition to the LSAT. I did not have to take the GRE for the MPA
>>>>> program in which I am currently studying. So, I am not sure which
>>>>> test
>> is more friendly to the blind.
>>>>>>>> I could go on and on.I will end soon. One additional question
>>>>>>>> is, are
>>>>> there any recent UB law graduates in this list? hearing from
>>>>> someone who has spent time in that program may be a very helpful
>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>> Thanks to anyone who took the time to read. I have so many
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>> questions but I do not want to clog anyones inbox Too much. Again,
>>>>> if this line of inquiry would be best plumbed somewhere else don't
>>>>> hesitate to redirect.
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak-Smalley
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur
>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>> 40g
>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutny
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> k%4
>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
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>>>>>>> o.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
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>>>>>
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--
--
Rahul Bajaj
Candidate for the BCL
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018)
University of Oxford
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