From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 09:46:18 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 10:46:18 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I was following the conversation on discrimination closely. This is because it is linked to a question that I have been wrestling with for some months now. As some of you may know, I am from India and am qualified to practice law there. Last year, however, I moved to England, to pursue my postgraduate legal education [in India, law is taught at the undergraduate level] at the University of Oxford on the Rhodes Scholarship. My scholarship ends next summer, and I have to decide whether I'd like to go back to India or stay on in England, at least in the near future. One crucial factor, though not the controlling one, for me is the accessibility of the legal profession in the two countries and the possibility of obtaining the reasonable accommodations that I require. My question for you, therefore, is this: To what extent, in your assessment, has your country of residence [which, for most of you is the U.S.,] impacted your professional prospects, access to reasonable accommodations and quality of life as a blind lawyer? I understand, of course, that many of you have not experienced the counterfactual of operating in a different jurisdiction and may not have a good comparator against which to evaluate your experience. What I am hoping to understand, however, is how much of the above is a function of the country that you live in per se versus the micro environment that one operates in i.e. one's financial position, degree of influence, skill/ ability, rapport with one's employer, etc. India does have a long way to go in creating a level playing field for blind lawyers, notwithstanding unceasing efforts by some of us to change the landscape. That said, I do think that the micro environment in India will be a lot more suitable for me, because I do have most of the above-mentioned factors going for me. Plus, being an Oxford educated lawyer with a prestigious scholarship does give you access to the upper echelons of the Profession, if you work in that direction. I do not state this boastfully, just as an objective fact. On the other hand, in England, the macro environment does appear a lot more conducive for blind professionals. Reasonable adjustments are firmly guaranteed by law. Folks aren't dealing with the same volume of cases or workload as they are in India, meaning that accessibility does not get sacrificed at the altar of productivity. Most stakeholders are far more well-resourced than they are in India. On the micro level, I will have to establish myself in the profession in England, and will, in that sense, be one of the many lawyers on the block. In other words, I may not have the same amount of traction as I would in India. I look forward to hearing your reflections on the above issues. Thank you. Best, Rahul -- -- Rahul Bajaj Candidate for the BCL Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au Tue Oct 1 10:19:34 2019 From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 10:19:34 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I teach law in Australia so have had similar discussions with students going back to a range of countries. My suggestion is try to stay for a short while, as if you leave you will find it hard to come back, but if you stay for a bit you increase your opportunities. Dr Paul Harpur BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. Senior Lecturer   TC Beirne School of Law The University of Queensland Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia   T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page  CRICOS code: 00025B Scientia ac Labore This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2019 7:46 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Rahul Bajaj Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world Hi Everyone, I was following the conversation on discrimination closely. This is because it is linked to a question that I have been wrestling with for some months now. As some of you may know, I am from India and am qualified to practice law there. Last year, however, I moved to England, to pursue my postgraduate legal education [in India, law is taught at the undergraduate level] at the University of Oxford on the Rhodes Scholarship. My scholarship ends next summer, and I have to decide whether I'd like to go back to India or stay on in England, at least in the near future. One crucial factor, though not the controlling one, for me is the accessibility of the legal profession in the two countries and the possibility of obtaining the reasonable accommodations that I require. My question for you, therefore, is this: To what extent, in your assessment, has your country of residence [which, for most of you is the U.S.,] impacted your professional prospects, access to reasonable accommodations and quality of life as a blind lawyer? I understand, of course, that many of you have not experienced the counterfactual of operating in a different jurisdiction and may not have a good comparator against which to evaluate your experience. What I am hoping to understand, however, is how much of the above is a function of the country that you live in per se versus the micro environment that one operates in i.e. one's financial position, degree of influence, skill/ ability, rapport with one's employer, etc. India does have a long way to go in creating a level playing field for blind lawyers, notwithstanding unceasing efforts by some of us to change the landscape. That said, I do think that the micro environment in India will be a lot more suitable for me, because I do have most of the above-mentioned factors going for me. Plus, being an Oxford educated lawyer with a prestigious scholarship does give you access to the upper echelons of the Profession, if you work in that direction. I do not state this boastfully, just as an objective fact. On the other hand, in England, the macro environment does appear a lot more conducive for blind professionals. Reasonable adjustments are firmly guaranteed by law. Folks aren't dealing with the same volume of cases or workload as they are in India, meaning that accessibility does not get sacrificed at the altar of productivity. Most stakeholders are far more well-resourced than they are in India. On the micro level, I will have to establish myself in the profession in England, and will, in that sense, be one of the many lawyers on the block. In other words, I may not have the same amount of traction as I would in India. I look forward to hearing your reflections on the above issues. Thank you. Best, Rahul -- -- Rahul Bajaj Candidate for the BCL Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 10:29:34 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 06:29:34 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C776859-755D-4DB0-8EE0-4EA3F1CA99B5@gmail.com> Rahul, I think you are neglecting a third option... Come to the US!!! Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:19 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw wrote: > > I teach law in Australia so have had similar discussions with students going back to a range of countries. My suggestion is try to stay for a short while, as if you leave you will find it hard to come back, but if you stay for a bit you increase your opportunities. > > Dr Paul Harpur > BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) > Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. > Senior Lecturer > > TC Beirne School of Law > The University of Queensland > Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia > > T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 > E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page > CRICOS code: 00025B > > > > > Scientia ac Labore > > This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2019 7:46 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Rahul Bajaj > Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world > > Hi Everyone, > > I was following the conversation on discrimination closely. This is because it is linked to a question that I have been wrestling with for some months now. > > As some of you may know, I am from India and am qualified to practice law there. Last year, however, I moved to England, to pursue my postgraduate legal education [in India, law is taught at the undergraduate level] at the University of Oxford on the Rhodes Scholarship. My scholarship ends next summer, and I have to decide whether I'd like to go back to India or stay on in England, at least in the near future. > > One crucial factor, though not the controlling one, for me is the accessibility of the legal profession in the two countries and the possibility of obtaining the reasonable accommodations that I require. > My question for you, therefore, is this: To what extent, in your assessment, has your country of residence [which, for most of you is the U.S.,] impacted your professional prospects, access to reasonable accommodations and quality of life as a blind lawyer? > > I understand, of course, that many of you have not experienced the counterfactual of operating in a different jurisdiction and may not have a good comparator against which to evaluate your experience. What I am hoping to understand, however, is how much of the above is a function of the country that you live in per se versus the micro environment that one operates in i.e. one's financial position, degree of influence, skill/ ability, rapport with one's employer, etc. > > India does have a long way to go in creating a level playing field for blind lawyers, notwithstanding unceasing efforts by some of us to change the landscape. That said, I do think that the micro environment in India will be a lot more suitable for me, because I do have most of the above-mentioned factors going for me. Plus, being an Oxford educated lawyer with a prestigious scholarship does give you access to the upper echelons of the Profession, if you work in that direction. I do not state this boastfully, just as an objective fact. On the other hand, in England, the macro environment does appear a lot more conducive for blind professionals. Reasonable adjustments are firmly guaranteed by law. Folks aren't dealing with the same volume of cases or workload as they are in India, meaning that accessibility does not get sacrificed at the altar of productivity. Most stakeholders are far more well-resourced than they are in India. > > On the micro level, I will have to establish myself in the profession in England, and will, in that sense, be one of the many lawyers on the block. In other words, I may not have the same amount of traction as I would in India. I look forward to hearing your reflections on the above issues. Thank you. > > Best, > Rahul > > > > > -- > -- > Rahul Bajaj > Candidate for the BCL > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) > University of Oxford > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From jtfetter at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 12:49:10 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 08:49:10 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world In-Reply-To: <2C776859-755D-4DB0-8EE0-4EA3F1CA99B5@gmail.com> References: <2C776859-755D-4DB0-8EE0-4EA3F1CA99B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wouldn't he need to attend law school again at a huge cost of time and money? I am not aware of any means of waiving in with a law degree from a foreign university. Rahul, I would look at this question from two angles: where can you actually thrive as a lawyer without dealing with an inordinate amount of discrimination or other barriers, and where can you make the largest positive impact on leveling the playing field for future blind/disabled professionals? I assume, based on your previous posts, that you care deeply about the latter. To the first point, being in a developed country has its obvious advantages: anti-discrimination laws (though these are often far harder to enforce than we would like), some amount of acceptance that blind people can do more than tie their own shoes, well-developed technological infrastructure, and, given your impressive credentials, a cecent chance that you could jump right into sophisticated legal work. However, it seems based on your message that the prestige of your degree might actually carry more weight in India than in England. And, as we all know, prestige counts for a whole lot in this field. You also might be able to do something about the discrimination you have discussed (e.g. your earlier message about judicial rulings in India to the effect that blind people cannot be judges). I guess the question is whether you want to be a small, if hopefully comfortable, fish in a big pond with at least some legal recourse when you face discrimination or a bigger, albeit less comfortable, fish that also has to swim upstream all the time but with the opportunity to make the environment somewhat more hospitable for blind and otherwise disabled attorneys. Of course we would love to have you in the US, but I see no up side for you to that move, unless you really loved law school and want to do it all over again. On 10/1/2019 6:29 AM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > Rahul, I think you are neglecting a third option... Come to the US!!! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:19 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I teach law in Australia so have had similar discussions with students going back to a range of countries. My suggestion is try to stay for a short while, as if you leave you will find it hard to come back, but if you stay for a bit you increase your opportunities. >> >> Dr Paul Harpur >> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) >> Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. >> Senior Lecturer >> >> TC Beirne School of Law >> The University of Queensland >> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia >> >> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 >> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page >> CRICOS code: 00025B >> >> >> >> >> Scientia ac Labore >> >> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2019 7:46 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >> Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I was following the conversation on discrimination closely. This is because it is linked to a question that I have been wrestling with for some months now. >> >> As some of you may know, I am from India and am qualified to practice law there. Last year, however, I moved to England, to pursue my postgraduate legal education [in India, law is taught at the undergraduate level] at the University of Oxford on the Rhodes Scholarship. My scholarship ends next summer, and I have to decide whether I'd like to go back to India or stay on in England, at least in the near future. >> >> One crucial factor, though not the controlling one, for me is the accessibility of the legal profession in the two countries and the possibility of obtaining the reasonable accommodations that I require. >> My question for you, therefore, is this: To what extent, in your assessment, has your country of residence [which, for most of you is the U.S.,] impacted your professional prospects, access to reasonable accommodations and quality of life as a blind lawyer? >> >> I understand, of course, that many of you have not experienced the counterfactual of operating in a different jurisdiction and may not have a good comparator against which to evaluate your experience. What I am hoping to understand, however, is how much of the above is a function of the country that you live in per se versus the micro environment that one operates in i.e. one's financial position, degree of influence, skill/ ability, rapport with one's employer, etc. >> >> India does have a long way to go in creating a level playing field for blind lawyers, notwithstanding unceasing efforts by some of us to change the landscape. That said, I do think that the micro environment in India will be a lot more suitable for me, because I do have most of the above-mentioned factors going for me. Plus, being an Oxford educated lawyer with a prestigious scholarship does give you access to the upper echelons of the Profession, if you work in that direction. I do not state this boastfully, just as an objective fact. On the other hand, in England, the macro environment does appear a lot more conducive for blind professionals. Reasonable adjustments are firmly guaranteed by law. Folks aren't dealing with the same volume of cases or workload as they are in India, meaning that accessibility does not get sacrificed at the altar of productivity. Most stakeholders are far more well-resourced than they are in India. >> >> On the micro level, I will have to establish myself in the profession in England, and will, in that sense, be one of the many lawyers on the block. In other words, I may not have the same amount of traction as I would in India. I look forward to hearing your reflections on the above issues. Thank you. >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Rahul Bajaj >> Candidate for the BCL >> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) >> University of Oxford >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 13:17:49 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:17:49 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world In-Reply-To: References: <2C776859-755D-4DB0-8EE0-4EA3F1CA99B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: That’s very kind, Laura. However, as James says, it sadly cannot be done without going through the rigmarole of law school all over again. In England, on the other hand, you can be qualified to become a barrister, if your law degree is from a common wealth country, only by giving a qualifying exam. James, I think you’ve presented the choice quite well. I do think that your point B is also a consideration for me. And the scale at which one can work on issues connected with the disabled in India is literally unparalleled, given the size of the disabled population. As one of my mentors put it, I have the potential of emerging as a real harbinger of change in India. On the prestige point, I certainly think that my credentials would carry far greater weight in India. I could, for instance, go back and clerk for a Supreme Court judge and work for an established appellate practitioner if things fall into place. In England, on the other hand, I’d have to start with a pupillage/ training stint in a barrister’s chambers and then take things from there. Rahul Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 1:49 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > Wouldn't he need to attend law school again at a huge cost of time and money? I am not aware of any means of waiving in with a law degree from a foreign university. > > Rahul, I would look at this question from two angles: where can you actually thrive as a lawyer without dealing with an inordinate amount of discrimination or other barriers, and where can you make the largest positive impact on leveling the playing field for future blind/disabled professionals? I assume, based on your previous posts, that you care deeply about the latter. > > To the first point, being in a developed country has its obvious advantages: anti-discrimination laws (though these are often far harder to enforce than we would like), some amount of acceptance that blind people can do more than tie their own shoes, well-developed technological infrastructure, and, given your impressive credentials, a cecent chance that you could jump right into sophisticated legal work. However, it seems based on your message that the prestige of your degree might actually carry more weight in India than in England. And, as we all know, prestige counts for a whole lot in this field. You also might be able to do something about the discrimination you have discussed (e.g. your earlier message about judicial rulings in India to the effect that blind people cannot be judges). > > I guess the question is whether you want to be a small, if hopefully comfortable, fish in a big pond with at least some legal recourse when you face discrimination or a bigger, albeit less comfortable, fish that also has to swim upstream all the time but with the opportunity to make the environment somewhat more hospitable for blind and otherwise disabled attorneys. Of course we would love to have you in the US, but I see no up side for you to that move, unless you really loved law school and want to do it all over again. > > >> On 10/1/2019 6:29 AM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> Rahul, I think you are neglecting a third option... Come to the US!!! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:19 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I teach law in Australia so have had similar discussions with students going back to a range of countries. My suggestion is try to stay for a short while, as if you leave you will find it hard to come back, but if you stay for a bit you increase your opportunities. >>> >>> Dr Paul Harpur >>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) >>> Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. >>> Senior Lecturer >>> TC Beirne School of Law >>> The University of Queensland >>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia >>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 >>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page >>> CRICOS code: 00025B >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Scientia ac Labore >>> >>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2019 7:46 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>> Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I was following the conversation on discrimination closely. This is because it is linked to a question that I have been wrestling with for some months now. >>> >>> As some of you may know, I am from India and am qualified to practice law there. Last year, however, I moved to England, to pursue my postgraduate legal education [in India, law is taught at the undergraduate level] at the University of Oxford on the Rhodes Scholarship. My scholarship ends next summer, and I have to decide whether I'd like to go back to India or stay on in England, at least in the near future. >>> >>> One crucial factor, though not the controlling one, for me is the accessibility of the legal profession in the two countries and the possibility of obtaining the reasonable accommodations that I require. >>> My question for you, therefore, is this: To what extent, in your assessment, has your country of residence [which, for most of you is the U.S.,] impacted your professional prospects, access to reasonable accommodations and quality of life as a blind lawyer? >>> >>> I understand, of course, that many of you have not experienced the counterfactual of operating in a different jurisdiction and may not have a good comparator against which to evaluate your experience. What I am hoping to understand, however, is how much of the above is a function of the country that you live in per se versus the micro environment that one operates in i.e. one's financial position, degree of influence, skill/ ability, rapport with one's employer, etc. >>> >>> India does have a long way to go in creating a level playing field for blind lawyers, notwithstanding unceasing efforts by some of us to change the landscape. That said, I do think that the micro environment in India will be a lot more suitable for me, because I do have most of the above-mentioned factors going for me. Plus, being an Oxford educated lawyer with a prestigious scholarship does give you access to the upper echelons of the Profession, if you work in that direction. I do not state this boastfully, just as an objective fact. On the other hand, in England, the macro environment does appear a lot more conducive for blind professionals. Reasonable adjustments are firmly guaranteed by law. Folks aren't dealing with the same volume of cases or workload as they are in India, meaning that accessibility does not get sacrificed at the altar of productivity. Most stakeholders are far more well-resourced than they are in India. >>> >>> On the micro level, I will have to establish myself in the profession in England, and will, in that sense, be one of the many lawyers on the block. In other words, I may not have the same amount of traction as I would in India. I look forward to hearing your reflections on the above issues. Thank you. >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Rahul Bajaj >>> Candidate for the BCL >>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) >>> University of Oxford >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Tue Oct 1 13:43:51 2019 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 07:43:51 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01d5785e$436f8a60$ca4e9f20$@com> Rahul, in England, you have two choices: You could be a solicitor or a barrister. You already know that solicitors put the cases together for the barrister to argue in court. It's different in the United States! Each of the 50 states and the territories run their own show. In essence, there's no ONE SIZE fits all in the United States. Being called to the bar in the state of New york DOES NOT mean that I have the right and privilege to practice law in the states of Hawaii or California; I must necessarily be admitted to their bars for such purpose. However, states do work out RECIPROCAL AGREEMENTS amongst themselves; a good example are the states of Wisconsin and Minnesota. In Wisconsin, graduation from a college of law in the state grants you the right to practice law in the state, no bar exam needed. Conversely, a law graduate from a state of Wisconsin law college can practice in Minnesota without having to write the Minnesota bar exam. I'm not aware of any restructuring of the reciprocal agreement between these two states, and, if I've written in error, perhaps other colleagues in this space will straighten things out for me. With respect to England, the immigration system is extremely strict. In a few months, if this has not already started, British immigration will begin counting down the number of days you can spend before you have to leave. Perhaps if you can get an internship that may eventually lead to some job placement the story might be different. May be being a Rhodes Scholar, and a prospective graduate from one of its prestigious college of law might also make a difference. I will suggest that you find any number of barristers and solicitors to chat with on the subject matter, perhaps they can pull a string or two for you. Going back to immigration issues for a minute: I followed two students who attended Conventry University; they obtained their Master's degree in Mass Communications; the were not even allowed to participate in an internship. These students returned to their home countries, and, with some luck, got hired by the BBC as local staff. Immigration issues are rough and tough, citizens of most countries DO NOT understand or know much about the many dirt paths a non citizen have to work in to get a fair break. I wager that, for blind individuals, practicing a chosen profession will always be a challenge. The cost of assistive technology equipment, finding accessible professional practice apps/software, and deciding between the use of Braille or synthetic speech do weigh heavily on the choice that has to be made. No profession is kind to the blind; established norms in each one promotes marginalisation of the blind no matter how many legislated Acts against discrimination are in the books. The fight for equal access, chances and opportunities is a never-ending struggle,; discrimination on all fronts will continue to leave scabs in the human flesh. All that said, I challenge you to follow your conscience and consciousness! Carefully determine and identify your want(s) and/or desire(s) from at least two perspectives: Personal and professional! Without doing this, deriving joy and satisfaction from what you do could be a long shot. For me, my joy and satisfaction come from being able to impact lives. I elect to do this behind-the-scenes without any noisy fanfare. I don't make enough pennies for what I do; nonetheless, I derive satisfaction from it because I see situations change for the better and a lot of happy beneficiaries. Currently working with someone on issues of asylum; next court date is January 21, 2020; I KEEP HOPE ALIVE, trusting that a SHINING LIGHT will be lit for the individual I'm working with. So, if India beckons you and you can hear the clarion call loud and clear, assess and weigh your options and aim at running towards that finish line. Good luck and all the very best with the decision-making process! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Tue Oct 1 13:54:24 2019 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 07:54:24 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world In-Reply-To: <2C776859-755D-4DB0-8EE0-4EA3F1CA99B5@gmail.com> References: <2C776859-755D-4DB0-8EE0-4EA3F1CA99B5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001001d5785f$bc6353b0$3529fb10$@com> Laura, coming to the U.S. may be a great option; but to which state? And, how about such state's requirement(s) for foreign law graduates? Some of these requirements can mentally torture a foreign law graduate who may not necessarily have any practice experience under their belts. Yes, some of these united states will require the foreign law graduate to take any number of law classes in their college(s) of law for any number of semesters before qualifying to apply to their bar for licensure. These classes, for the most part, can't be taken online; the student MUST HAVE A PHYSICAL PRESENCE; cost for an international student will kill every mocking bird alive. How about FIGHTING FOR A STUDENT VISA? That's another long shot for a foreign professional graduate especially in law and medicine! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 14:44:52 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 10:44:52 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world In-Reply-To: <001001d5785f$bc6353b0$3529fb10$@com> References: <2C776859-755D-4DB0-8EE0-4EA3F1CA99B5@gmail.com> <001001d5785f$bc6353b0$3529fb10$@com> Message-ID: Yes, it was said in jest, meant to communicate to Rahul that I would enjoy it if he came to the U.S. On 10/1/19, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via BlindLaw wrote: > Laura, coming to the U.S. may be a great option; but to which state? And, > how about such state's requirement(s) for foreign law graduates? > > Some of these requirements can mentally torture a foreign law graduate who > may not necessarily have any practice experience under their belts. Yes, > some of these united states will require the foreign law graduate to take > any number of law classes in their college(s) of law for any number of > semesters before qualifying to apply to their bar for licensure. These > classes, for the most part, can't be taken online; the student MUST HAVE A > PHYSICAL PRESENCE; cost for an international student will kill every > mocking > bird alive. How about FIGHTING FOR A STUDENT VISA? That's another long > shot for a foreign professional graduate especially in law and medicine! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 17:29:55 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:29:55 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I > didn't fix them. > > On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier wrote: >> Laura >> >> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >> Professors to have followed would have been to: >> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >> your future); and >> 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and explain the issues with >> content. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Ger >> >> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in undergrad >>> with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," because >>> that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, it wasn't. >>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked with >>> drafting something for a client. This is why I really think this is >>> in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are we going to >>> need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>> >>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And they >>> see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to fix >>> this... No harm, no foul. >>> >>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes turned on >>> for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. But >>> people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be filled in >>> when filing, such as the final word count and the submission date. So >>> although I would fill in everything, they were still in yellow. My >>> assistant was just changing everything. After I had yet another >>> uncomfortable conversation about how I knew she thought she was >>> helping, and I really appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me >>> she'd make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to me, >>>> except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same thing >>>> happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is ascii value >>>> 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. Hate to tell you, >>>> Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out as straight when >>>> drafted in note pad too. This can also happen when copy/pasting from >>>> Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>> >>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to customize >>>> the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and replace it with >>>> the word "straight quote" and likewise with the straight apostrophe. >>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to be so >>>> tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if it works >>>> for you. >>>> >>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. I, >>>> too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F before >>>> submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. Placing a caret >>>> before the number causes word to search for the ascii value. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the world >>>>> do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>> >>>>> Sanho >>>>> >>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about double >>>>>> quotes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. The >>>>>> widest >>>>>> point is at the top. There is only one symbol that represents the >>>>>> quotation >>>>>> mark, whether it is an opening quote or a closing quote. >>>>>> >>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the bottom, >>>>>> but >>>>>> they >>>>>> are curved. The opening quote is shaped similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>> with >>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right of the >>>>>> enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so its curve faces >>>>>> to >>>>>> the >>>>>> left. It is almost like they are enclosing the material. >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since the >>>>>> opening >>>>>> and closing quotes are different. I guess you could use two >>>>>> apostrophes >>>>>> to >>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille, but I really >>>>>> don’t >>>>>> see >>>>>> that very often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>> straight >>>>>> quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>> >>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>> >>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting it into >>>>>> this >>>>>> email. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>>> files >>>>>> or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended >>>>>> recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >>>>>> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached >>>>>> to >>>>>> this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>> destroy >>>>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>> saving >>>>>> in >>>>>> any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Ray Wayne >>>>>> via >>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a smart >>>>>> quote? >>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>> > On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cc: Shannon > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question was >>>>>> regarding >>>>>> knowing the difference between a straight and smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>> >>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>> E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged >>>>>> and/or >>>>>> attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any >>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without >>>>>> express >>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended >>>>>> recipient, >>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>> Wolk >>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>> understand >>>>>> what you are trying to ask. >>>>>> >>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get at is >>>>>> that >>>>>> we >>>>>> have to face the sad but true reality that there are, in fact, blind >>>>>> attorneys out there who produce work of lesser visual quality, whose >>>>>> firms >>>>>> or legal assistants or whatever come along behind and clean up the >>>>>> work. >>>>>> It >>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, the >>>>>> person >>>>>> continues to remain unaware of the errors they make over and over >>>>>> again, >>>>>> and >>>>>> the people continue to believe that the blind person is not as capable >>>>>> as >>>>>> the rest of their peers. This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed and >>>>>> said >>>>>> "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able to >>>>>> figure out a way to address it." And then they did give me some >>>>>> feedback. >>>>>> A >>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed that his >>>>>> emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner told my friend not >>>>>> to >>>>>> say >>>>>> anything but, being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing to >>>>>> do. >>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit embarrassed. >>>>>> This >>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the soft >>>>>> skills >>>>>> help we need, and we need to create awareness that is indeed OK to >>>>>> tell >>>>>> a >>>>>> blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing something >>>>>> that >>>>>> makes your documents look strange." >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding employment >>>>>>> discrimination. I have planned conversations with a couple of >>>>>>> attorneys responsible for hiring associates and will ask them for >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> information. Laura, I will send you an email off-list to learn more >>>>>>> from your perspective. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school following >>>>>>>> graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary position is ending >>>>>>>> next >>>>>>>> Monday. And, despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6 months >>>>>>>> to find work, I have no employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m >>>>>>>> far too bitter at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>> think Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>> you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights related work >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> law school because I did not want to be placed in that box either. >>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers in that >>>>>>>> area might be a bit more understanding and educated. I was wrong. Do >>>>>>>> not assume that those who practice disability rights law are any >>>>>>>> less >>>>>>>> susceptible to the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue educating folks >>>>>>>> on the reality that blind or visually impaired attorneys are as >>>>>>>> capable as their sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My >>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with disabilities in the >>>>>>>> legal profession. We are trying to provide education to members of >>>>>>>> the bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in the hopes >>>>>>>> that this will alleviate some of the underlying causes of employment >>>>>>>> discrimination. This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the blog >>>>>>>> post linked below. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-Committ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good reasons for >>>>>>>>> people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal degree? I took the >>>>>>>>> LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of that for whatever it’s >>>>>>>>> worth. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes provide >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>> phenomenon >>>>>>>>> such as the one you indicate Cody. I have worried that someone will >>>>>>>>> see my GPA and somehow assume that all of my professors have >>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant grades which I do >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> deserve. This is of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>> supports that fear. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am not >>>>>>>>> particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the reasons why is >>>>>>>>> that I don’t want to be silo into a field which others expect me to >>>>>>>>> enter. I don’t want to be limited to practice law in an area >>>>>>>>> related >>>>>>>>> to one of my most visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most excepting >>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>> of practice. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the dictation >>>>>>>>> errors. >>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t have >>>>>>>>> time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation is that >>>>>>>>>> the experience a blind candidate may possess by way of externships >>>>>>>>>> and internships does not seem to assuage employers’ concerns about >>>>>>>>>> the candidates’ ability to practice. Despite my four externships >>>>>>>>>> during law school in which I was able to perform the work assigned >>>>>>>>>> to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. Shouldn’t my >>>>>>>>>> history of success in the workplace evidence my ability to thrive >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> practice? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in general have >>>>>>>>>> no issue trusting that I am capable to do something, so long as I >>>>>>>>>> am not being paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem securing >>>>>>>>>> volunteer or community involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in law school >>>>>>>>>>> being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact that I had a >>>>>>>>>>> degree >>>>>>>>>>> and a license, I was asked in a job interview how I got those >>>>>>>>>>> things if I can’t read a physical book. They seemed to be under >>>>>>>>>>> the impression that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by other >>>>>>>>>>> attorneys when they find out I have my own firm versus how I was >>>>>>>>>>> treated when I was first out of school and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone they can >>>>>>>>>>> potentially work with and it is easier to make connections. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than I >>>>>>>>>>> thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for heart >>>>>>>>>>>> break. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, also an >>>>>>>>>>>>> attorney, practicing for quite some time now--that many >>>>>>>>>>>>> employers pretty much look at a blind person's success in law >>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>> as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in practice. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> he's right, and it makes a great deal of sense in light of my >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law school, >>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>> is still extremely important by the way, with all the things >>>>>>>>>>>>> that law school doesn't prepare you for: taking depositions, >>>>>>>>>>>>> handling contentious meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing >>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence with any kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these things before >>>>>>>>>>>>> being?? seen as potentially able to do them in practice. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> understand that things are somewhat less grim for people who >>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will soon find out if this is true in my own >>>>>>>>>>>>> case. I also don't know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, given the >>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot of rejection, but >>>>>>>>>>>>> still be the best possible candidate, so that you can be >>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities that can act as a bridge to a >>>>>>>>>>>>> long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive self >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutny >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m13grey%40y >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193% >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak% >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis9193%40 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmai >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To >>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>> >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 17:32:03 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:32:03 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] List of Traps and Solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am not a good person to contribute to the list, but I really hope this happens. Formatting has definitely been an issue for me at work and I'd really like to fix the problems that are there. On 9/27/19, James Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > I’m thrilled to see such a high level of interest. If you have indicated on > or off list that you want to be part of this, please expect to hear from me > early next week, and we can get the ball rolling. Thanks again, and have a > great weekend! > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:18 AM, Ben Fulton via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I think a document detailing how to overcome formatting challenges would >> be great. It's the kind of resource that I would really enjoy having. >> Please post something back to this list when you have something completed. >> I'm afraid I don't have anything to contribute, because I'm always >> searching for answers to these questions, and I have been wanting to >> improve my ability to do better formatting, but very uncertain of where to >> begin. Right now I rely on sighted assistance for a large amount of all of >> this, but having more independence would be nice. >> >> All the best, >> >> Ben >> >> ------- >> Thanks, James!! I'm definitely interested. I'll try writing up my check >> list and customizations over the next few days. I also very much agree >> regarding having a document posted somewhere or having a presentation of >> some kind. >> >> Laura >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com Tue Oct 1 18:03:19 2019 From: BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com (Brian Unitt) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 18:03:19 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> JAWS does this as well. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Kelby Carlson Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I > didn't fix them. > > On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier wrote: >> Laura >> >> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >> Professors to have followed would have been to: >> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >> explain the issues with content. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Ger >> >> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, it wasn't. >>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are we >>> going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>> >>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>> >>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes turned >>> on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they were >>> still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. After >>> I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I knew she >>> thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, etc etc etc >>> etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future. >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to me, >>>> except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same thing >>>> happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is ascii value >>>> 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. Hate to tell >>>> you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out as straight >>>> when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen when >>>> copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>> >>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the straight apostrophe. >>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to be >>>> so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if it >>>> works for you. >>>> >>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. I, >>>> too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the ascii value. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>> >>>>> Sanho >>>>> >>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about double >>>>>> quotes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote or >>>>>> a closing quote. >>>>>> >>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped similar >>>>>> to a print letter “C,” >>>>>> with >>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right of >>>>>> the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so its >>>>>> curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are enclosing the >>>>>> material. >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since the >>>>>> opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you could use >>>>>> two apostrophes to represent both opening and closing quotes in >>>>>> braille, but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think >>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but someone >>>>>> please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>> >>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>> >>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting it >>>>>> into this email. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>> documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>> contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the >>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Ray >>>>>> Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a smart >>>>>> quote? >>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cc: Shannon > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and smart >>>>>> quote/apostrophe? >>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>> >>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>> E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged >>>>>> and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended >>>>>> recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If >>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and >>>>>> delete all copies. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>> >>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get at >>>>>> is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there are, >>>>>> in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of lesser >>>>>> visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come >>>>>> along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>> It >>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, the >>>>>> person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make over >>>>>> and over again, and the people continue to believe that the blind >>>>>> person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. This has >>>>>> happened to me also. I have even had conversations where I >>>>>> initially pressed the superior to give me blind specific >>>>>> feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed and said >>>>>> "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be >>>>>> able to figure out a way to address it." And then they did give >>>>>> me some feedback. >>>>>> A >>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner told >>>>>> my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, he knew >>>>>> it was the right thing to do. >>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit embarrassed. >>>>>> This >>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the soft >>>>>> skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that is >>>>>> indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>> strange." >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with a >>>>>>> couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and will >>>>>>> ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an email >>>>>>> off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at >>>>>>>> this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you all you >>>>>>>> should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights related >>>>>>>> work in law school because I did not want to be placed in that >>>>>>>> box either. >>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers in >>>>>>>> that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. I was >>>>>>>> wrong. Do not assume that those who practice disability rights >>>>>>>> law are any less susceptible to the biases, misperceptions, or >>>>>>>> lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue educating >>>>>>>> folks on the reality that blind or visually impaired attorneys >>>>>>>> are as capable as their sighted counterparts in all but a very >>>>>>>> few ways. My local bar has created a Taskforce to address, >>>>>>>> among other issues, employment discrimination against persons >>>>>>>> with disabilities in the legal profession. We are trying to >>>>>>>> provide education to members of the bar on the capacity of >>>>>>>> lawyers with disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>> some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench and >>>>>>>> bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the blog post linked below. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-Co >>>>>>>>mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of that >>>>>>>>> for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have worried >>>>>>>>> that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume that all of my >>>>>>>>> professors have independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This is of course irrational >>>>>>>>> but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am not >>>>>>>>> particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the reasons >>>>>>>>> why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field which others >>>>>>>>> expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited to practice law >>>>>>>>> in an area related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most excepting >>>>>>>>> field of practice. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the dictation >>>>>>>>> errors. >>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation is >>>>>>>>>> that the experience a blind candidate may possess by way of >>>>>>>>>> externships and internships does not seem to assuage >>>>>>>>>> employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability to >>>>>>>>>> practice. Despite my four externships during law school in >>>>>>>>>> which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still doubt >>>>>>>>>> my abilities to deliver the work they expect. Shouldn’t my >>>>>>>>>> history of success in the workplace evidence my ability to >>>>>>>>>> thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in general >>>>>>>>>> have no issue trusting that I am capable to do something, so >>>>>>>>>> long as I am not being paid to do it. I have absolutely no >>>>>>>>>> problem securing volunteer or community involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in law >>>>>>>>>>> school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact that I >>>>>>>>>>> had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job interview >>>>>>>>>>> how I got those things if I can’t read a physical book. They >>>>>>>>>>> seemed to be under the impression that someone must have >>>>>>>>>>> helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by other >>>>>>>>>>> attorneys when they find out I have my own firm versus how I >>>>>>>>>>> was treated when I was first out of school and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make connections. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than I >>>>>>>>>>> thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, also >>>>>>>>>>>>> an attorney, practicing for quite some time now--that many >>>>>>>>>>>>> employers pretty much look at a blind person's success in >>>>>>>>>>>>> law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in practice. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> think he's right, and it makes a great deal of sense in >>>>>>>>>>>>> light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law school, >>>>>>>>>>>>> which is still extremely important by the way, with all >>>>>>>>>>>>> the things that law school doesn't prepare you for: taking >>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions, handling contentious meetings with opposing >>>>>>>>>>>>> counsel, reviewing documents, and, of course, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these things >>>>>>>>>>>>> before being?? seen as potentially able to do them in >>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I understand that things are somewhat less grim >>>>>>>>>>>>> for people who have clerkships. I will soon find out if >>>>>>>>>>>>> this is true in my own case. I also don't know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>> rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, so >>>>>>>>>>>>> that you can be competitive for opportunities that can act >>>>>>>>>>>>> as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive self >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maura >>>>>>>>>>>>>kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutn >>>>>> >>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m13gre >>>>>>>>>>>>y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40 >>>>>> >>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis >>>>>>>>>>>9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakut >>>>>>>>>>nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis91 >>>>>>>>>93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e> >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%4 >>>>>>>>0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk% >>>>>>>40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>%40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaa >>>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40n >>>>>> yc.rr.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40l >>>>>> oeb.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>> %40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40g > mail.com > -- Kelby Carlson _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 20:35:04 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 16:35:04 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw wrote: > JAWS does this as well. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist, Appellate Law > The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization > > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via > BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Kelby Carlson > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > > For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote because > NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. > > On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >> didn't fix them. >> >> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier wrote: >>> Laura >>> >>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>> explain the issues with content. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Ger >>> >>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, it >>>> wasn't. >>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are we >>>> going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>> >>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>> >>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes turned >>>> on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they were >>>> still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. After >>>> I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I knew she >>>> thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, etc etc etc >>>> etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if anything similar came >>>> up in the future. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to me, >>>>> except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same thing >>>>> happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is ascii value >>>>> 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. Hate to tell >>>>> you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out as straight >>>>> when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen when >>>>> copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>> >>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to be >>>>> so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if it >>>>> works for you. >>>>> >>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. I, >>>>> too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the ascii >>>>> value. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sanho >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about double >>>>>>> quotes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote or >>>>>>> a closing quote. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped similar >>>>>>> to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right of >>>>>>> the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so its >>>>>>> curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are enclosing the >>>>>>> material. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since the >>>>>>> opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you could use >>>>>>> two apostrophes to represent both opening and closing quotes in >>>>>>> braille, but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think >>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but someone >>>>>>> please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting it >>>>>>> into this email. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>> documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>> contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the >>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Ray >>>>>>> Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a smart >>>>>>> quote? >>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cc: Shannon > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and smart >>>>>>> quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>> E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged >>>>>>> and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended >>>>>>> recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If >>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and >>>>>>> delete all copies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get at >>>>>>> is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there are, >>>>>>> in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of lesser >>>>>>> visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come >>>>>>> along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>> It >>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, the >>>>>>> person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make over >>>>>>> and over again, and the people continue to believe that the blind >>>>>>> person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. This has >>>>>>> happened to me also. I have even had conversations where I >>>>>>> initially pressed the superior to give me blind specific >>>>>>> feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed and said >>>>>>> "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be >>>>>>> able to figure out a way to address it." And then they did give >>>>>>> me some feedback. >>>>>>> A >>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner told >>>>>>> my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, he knew >>>>>>> it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the soft >>>>>>> skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that is >>>>>>> indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with a >>>>>>>> couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and will >>>>>>>> ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an email >>>>>>>> off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at >>>>>>>>> this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you all you >>>>>>>>> should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights related >>>>>>>>> work in law school because I did not want to be placed in that >>>>>>>>> box either. >>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers in >>>>>>>>> that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. I was >>>>>>>>> wrong. Do not assume that those who practice disability rights >>>>>>>>> law are any less susceptible to the biases, misperceptions, or >>>>>>>>> lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue educating >>>>>>>>> folks on the reality that blind or visually impaired attorneys >>>>>>>>> are as capable as their sighted counterparts in all but a very >>>>>>>>> few ways. My local bar has created a Taskforce to address, >>>>>>>>> among other issues, employment discrimination against persons >>>>>>>>> with disabilities in the legal profession. We are trying to >>>>>>>>> provide education to members of the bar on the capacity of >>>>>>>>> lawyers with disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>> some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench and >>>>>>>>> bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the blog post >>>>>>>>> linked below. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-Co >>>>>>>>>mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of that >>>>>>>>>> for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have worried >>>>>>>>>> that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume that all of my >>>>>>>>>> professors have independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This is of course irrational >>>>>>>>>> but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am not >>>>>>>>>> particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the reasons >>>>>>>>>> why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field which others >>>>>>>>>> expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited to practice law >>>>>>>>>> in an area related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most excepting >>>>>>>>>> field of practice. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the dictation >>>>>>>>>> errors. >>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation is >>>>>>>>>>> that the experience a blind candidate may possess by way of >>>>>>>>>>> externships and internships does not seem to assuage >>>>>>>>>>> employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability to >>>>>>>>>>> practice. Despite my four externships during law school in >>>>>>>>>>> which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still doubt >>>>>>>>>>> my abilities to deliver the work they expect. Shouldn’t my >>>>>>>>>>> history of success in the workplace evidence my ability to >>>>>>>>>>> thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in general >>>>>>>>>>> have no issue trusting that I am capable to do something, so >>>>>>>>>>> long as I am not being paid to do it. I have absolutely no >>>>>>>>>>> problem securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in law >>>>>>>>>>>> school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact that I >>>>>>>>>>>> had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job interview >>>>>>>>>>>> how I got those things if I can’t read a physical book. They >>>>>>>>>>>> seemed to be under the impression that someone must have >>>>>>>>>>>> helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by other >>>>>>>>>>>> attorneys when they find out I have my own firm versus how I >>>>>>>>>>>> was treated when I was first out of school and looking for a >>>>>>>>>>>> job. >>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than I >>>>>>>>>>>> thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, also >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an attorney, practicing for quite some time now--that many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers pretty much look at a blind person's success in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in practice. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think he's right, and it makes a great deal of sense in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law school, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is still extremely important by the way, with all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the things that law school doesn't prepare you for: taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions, handling contentious meetings with opposing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> counsel, reviewing documents, and, of course, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these things >>>>>>>>>>>>>> before being?? seen as potentially able to do them in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I understand that things are somewhat less grim >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for people who have clerkships. I will soon find out if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is true in my own case. I also don't know if the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you can be competitive for opportunities that can act >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive self >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutn >>>>>>> >>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m13gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40 >>>>>>> >>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis >>>>>>>>>>>>9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakut >>>>>>>>>>>nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis91 >>>>>>>>>>93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%4 >>>>>>>>>0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk% >>>>>>>>40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaa >>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40n >>>>>>> yc.rr.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40l >>>>>>> oeb.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40g >> mail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From sanho817 at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 20:52:09 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 15:52:09 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: Brian, My copy of JAWS doesn't-- Nor has it ever. Interesting. Do you know why yours would and others' would not? Sanho On 10/1/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? > > On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw wrote: >> JAWS does this as well. >> >> Brian >> Brian C. Unitt >> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >> >> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >> A Professional Corporation >> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >> Riverside, CA 92501 >> Tel: 951-682-7030 >> Fax: 951-684-8061 >> www.holsteinlaw.com >> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Kelby Carlson >> via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Kelby Carlson >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote >> because >> NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >> >> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >>> didn't fix them. >>> >>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier wrote: >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>> explain the issues with content. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Ger >>>> >>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, it >>>>> wasn't. >>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are we >>>>> going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>> >>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>> >>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes turned >>>>> on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they were >>>>> still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. After >>>>> I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I knew she >>>>> thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, etc etc etc >>>>> etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if anything similar >>>>> came >>>>> up in the future. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to me, >>>>>> except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same thing >>>>>> happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is ascii value >>>>>> 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. Hate to tell >>>>>> you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out as straight >>>>>> when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen when >>>>>> copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to be >>>>>> so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if it >>>>>> works for you. >>>>>> >>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. I, >>>>>> too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the ascii >>>>>> value. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about double >>>>>>>> quotes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote or >>>>>>>> a closing quote. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped similar >>>>>>>> to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right of >>>>>>>> the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so its >>>>>>>> curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are enclosing the >>>>>>>> material. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since the >>>>>>>> opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you could use >>>>>>>> two apostrophes to represent both opening and closing quotes in >>>>>>>> braille, but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think >>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but someone >>>>>>>> please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting it >>>>>>>> into this email. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>> documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>>> contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>>> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the >>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Ray >>>>>>>> Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a smart >>>>>>>> quote? >>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and smart >>>>>>>> quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>> E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged >>>>>>>> and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended >>>>>>>> recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If >>>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and >>>>>>>> delete all copies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get at >>>>>>>> is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there are, >>>>>>>> in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of lesser >>>>>>>> visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come >>>>>>>> along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, the >>>>>>>> person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make over >>>>>>>> and over again, and the people continue to believe that the blind >>>>>>>> person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. This has >>>>>>>> happened to me also. I have even had conversations where I >>>>>>>> initially pressed the superior to give me blind specific >>>>>>>> feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed and said >>>>>>>> "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be >>>>>>>> able to figure out a way to address it." And then they did give >>>>>>>> me some feedback. >>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner told >>>>>>>> my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, he knew >>>>>>>> it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the soft >>>>>>>> skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that is >>>>>>>> indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with a >>>>>>>>> couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and will >>>>>>>>> ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an email >>>>>>>>> off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at >>>>>>>>>> this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you all you >>>>>>>>>> should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights related >>>>>>>>>> work in law school because I did not want to be placed in that >>>>>>>>>> box either. >>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers in >>>>>>>>>> that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. I was >>>>>>>>>> wrong. Do not assume that those who practice disability rights >>>>>>>>>> law are any less susceptible to the biases, misperceptions, or >>>>>>>>>> lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue educating >>>>>>>>>> folks on the reality that blind or visually impaired attorneys >>>>>>>>>> are as capable as their sighted counterparts in all but a very >>>>>>>>>> few ways. My local bar has created a Taskforce to address, >>>>>>>>>> among other issues, employment discrimination against persons >>>>>>>>>> with disabilities in the legal profession. We are trying to >>>>>>>>>> provide education to members of the bar on the capacity of >>>>>>>>>> lawyers with disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>>> some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench and >>>>>>>>>> bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the blog post >>>>>>>>>> linked below. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-Co >>>>>>>>>>mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of that >>>>>>>>>>> for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have worried >>>>>>>>>>> that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume that all of my >>>>>>>>>>> professors have independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This is of course irrational >>>>>>>>>>> but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am not >>>>>>>>>>> particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the reasons >>>>>>>>>>> why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field which others >>>>>>>>>>> expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited to practice law >>>>>>>>>>> in an area related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most excepting >>>>>>>>>>> field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the dictation >>>>>>>>>>> errors. >>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation is >>>>>>>>>>>> that the experience a blind candidate may possess by way of >>>>>>>>>>>> externships and internships does not seem to assuage >>>>>>>>>>>> employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability to >>>>>>>>>>>> practice. Despite my four externships during law school in >>>>>>>>>>>> which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still doubt >>>>>>>>>>>> my abilities to deliver the work they expect. Shouldn’t my >>>>>>>>>>>> history of success in the workplace evidence my ability to >>>>>>>>>>>> thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in general >>>>>>>>>>>> have no issue trusting that I am capable to do something, so >>>>>>>>>>>> long as I am not being paid to do it. I have absolutely no >>>>>>>>>>>> problem securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in law >>>>>>>>>>>>> school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact that I >>>>>>>>>>>>> had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job interview >>>>>>>>>>>>> how I got those things if I can’t read a physical book. They >>>>>>>>>>>>> seemed to be under the impression that someone must have >>>>>>>>>>>>> helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by other >>>>>>>>>>>>> attorneys when they find out I have my own firm versus how I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was treated when I was first out of school and looking for a >>>>>>>>>>>>> job. >>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than I >>>>>>>>>>>>> thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an attorney, practicing for quite some time now--that many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers pretty much look at a blind person's success in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in practice. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think he's right, and it makes a great deal of sense in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law school, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is still extremely important by the way, with all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the things that law school doesn't prepare you for: taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions, handling contentious meetings with opposing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counsel, reviewing documents, and, of course, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before being?? seen as potentially able to do them in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I understand that things are somewhat less grim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for people who have clerkships. I will soon find out if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is true in my own case. I also don't know if the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you can be competitive for opportunities that can act >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive self >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutn >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m13gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis >>>>>>>>>>>>>9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakut >>>>>>>>>>>>nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis91 >>>>>>>>>>>93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%4 >>>>>>>>>>0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk% >>>>>>>>>40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaa >>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40n >>>>>>>> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40l >>>>>>>> oeb.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com > From amatney at loeb.com Tue Oct 1 21:37:14 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 21:37:14 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office products. ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > wrote: > JAWS does this as well. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist, Appellate Law > The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization > > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via > BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > > Cc: Kelby Carlson > > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > > For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote because > NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. > > On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >> didn't fix them. >> >> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier > wrote: >>> Laura >>> >>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>> explain the issues with content. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Ger >>> >>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, it >>>> wasn't. >>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are we >>>> going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>> >>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>> >>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes turned >>>> on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they were >>>> still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. After >>>> I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I knew she >>>> thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, etc etc etc >>>> etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if anything similar came >>>> up in the future. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to me, >>>>> except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same thing >>>>> happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is ascii value >>>>> 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. Hate to tell >>>>> you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out as straight >>>>> when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen when >>>>> copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>> >>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to be >>>>> so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if it >>>>> works for you. >>>>> >>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. I, >>>>> too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the ascii >>>>> value. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sanho >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about double >>>>>>> quotes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote or >>>>>>> a closing quote. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped similar >>>>>>> to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right of >>>>>>> the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so its >>>>>>> curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are enclosing the >>>>>>> material. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since the >>>>>>> opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you could use >>>>>>> two apostrophes to represent both opening and closing quotes in >>>>>>> braille, but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think >>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but someone >>>>>>> please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting it >>>>>>> into this email. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ________________________________ >>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>> documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>> contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the >>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Ray >>>>>>> Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > >>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a smart >>>>>>> quote? >>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and smart >>>>>>> quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>> E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com> >>>>>>> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged >>>>>>> and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended >>>>>>> recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If >>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and >>>>>>> delete all copies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get at >>>>>>> is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there are, >>>>>>> in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of lesser >>>>>>> visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come >>>>>>> along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>> It >>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, the >>>>>>> person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make over >>>>>>> and over again, and the people continue to believe that the blind >>>>>>> person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. This has >>>>>>> happened to me also. I have even had conversations where I >>>>>>> initially pressed the superior to give me blind specific >>>>>>> feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed and said >>>>>>> "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be >>>>>>> able to figure out a way to address it." And then they did give >>>>>>> me some feedback. >>>>>>> A >>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner told >>>>>>> my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, he knew >>>>>>> it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the soft >>>>>>> skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that is >>>>>>> indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with a >>>>>>>> couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and will >>>>>>>> ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an email >>>>>>>> off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at >>>>>>>>> this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you all you >>>>>>>>> should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights related >>>>>>>>> work in law school because I did not want to be placed in that >>>>>>>>> box either. >>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers in >>>>>>>>> that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. I was >>>>>>>>> wrong. Do not assume that those who practice disability rights >>>>>>>>> law are any less susceptible to the biases, misperceptions, or >>>>>>>>> lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue educating >>>>>>>>> folks on the reality that blind or visually impaired attorneys >>>>>>>>> are as capable as their sighted counterparts in all but a very >>>>>>>>> few ways. My local bar has created a Taskforce to address, >>>>>>>>> among other issues, employment discrimination against persons >>>>>>>>> with disabilities in the legal profession. We are trying to >>>>>>>>> provide education to members of the bar on the capacity of >>>>>>>>> lawyers with disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>> some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench and >>>>>>>>> bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the blog post >>>>>>>>> linked below. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-Co >>>>>>>>>mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of that >>>>>>>>>> for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have worried >>>>>>>>>> that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume that all of my >>>>>>>>>> professors have independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This is of course irrational >>>>>>>>>> but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am not >>>>>>>>>> particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the reasons >>>>>>>>>> why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field which others >>>>>>>>>> expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited to practice law >>>>>>>>>> in an area related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most excepting >>>>>>>>>> field of practice. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the dictation >>>>>>>>>> errors. >>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation is >>>>>>>>>>> that the experience a blind candidate may possess by way of >>>>>>>>>>> externships and internships does not seem to assuage >>>>>>>>>>> employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability to >>>>>>>>>>> practice. Despite my four externships during law school in >>>>>>>>>>> which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still doubt >>>>>>>>>>> my abilities to deliver the work they expect. Shouldn’t my >>>>>>>>>>> history of success in the workplace evidence my ability to >>>>>>>>>>> thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in general >>>>>>>>>>> have no issue trusting that I am capable to do something, so >>>>>>>>>>> long as I am not being paid to do it. I have absolutely no >>>>>>>>>>> problem securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in law >>>>>>>>>>>> school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact that I >>>>>>>>>>>> had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job interview >>>>>>>>>>>> how I got those things if I can’t read a physical book. They >>>>>>>>>>>> seemed to be under the impression that someone must have >>>>>>>>>>>> helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by other >>>>>>>>>>>> attorneys when they find out I have my own firm versus how I >>>>>>>>>>>> was treated when I was first out of school and looking for a >>>>>>>>>>>> job. >>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than I >>>>>>>>>>>> thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, also >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an attorney, practicing for quite some time now--that many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers pretty much look at a blind person's success in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in practice. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think he's right, and it makes a great deal of sense in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law school, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is still extremely important by the way, with all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the things that law school doesn't prepare you for: taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions, handling contentious meetings with opposing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> counsel, reviewing documents, and, of course, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these things >>>>>>>>>>>>>> before being?? seen as potentially able to do them in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I understand that things are somewhat less grim >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for people who have clerkships. I will soon find out if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is true in my own case. I also don't know if the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you can be competitive for opportunities that can act >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive self >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutn >>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m13gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis >>>>>>>>>>>>9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakut >>>>>>>>>>>nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis91 >>>>>>>>>>93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%4 >>>>>>>>>0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk% >>>>>>>>40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaa >>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40n >>>>>>> yc.rr.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40l >>>>>>> oeb.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40g >> mail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 21:43:25 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:43:25 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Paul. I think that is great advice, and I might do that for a while to pursue any interesting opportunities that become available after my course and scholarship end. I do, however, have to make the fundamental choice of whether I’d like to go down the path of becoming a barrister or not upfront - there can be no halfway house there. Rahul Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Paul Harpur wrote: > > I teach law in Australia so have had similar discussions with students going back to a range of countries. My suggestion is try to stay for a short while, as if you leave you will find it hard to come back, but if you stay for a bit you increase your opportunities. > > Dr Paul Harpur > BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing) > Fulbright Future Scholar/International Distinguished Fellow, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York. > Senior Lecturer > > TC Beirne School of Law > The University of Queensland > Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia > > T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609 > E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au TCB Profile/Google Citation Page > CRICOS code: 00025B > > > > > Scientia ac Labore > > This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2019 7:46 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Rahul Bajaj > Subject: [blindLaw] Structural barriers faced by blind legal professionals in the developed world > > Hi Everyone, > > I was following the conversation on discrimination closely. This is because it is linked to a question that I have been wrestling with for some months now. > > As some of you may know, I am from India and am qualified to practice law there. Last year, however, I moved to England, to pursue my postgraduate legal education [in India, law is taught at the undergraduate level] at the University of Oxford on the Rhodes Scholarship. My scholarship ends next summer, and I have to decide whether I'd like to go back to India or stay on in England, at least in the near future. > > One crucial factor, though not the controlling one, for me is the accessibility of the legal profession in the two countries and the possibility of obtaining the reasonable accommodations that I require. > My question for you, therefore, is this: To what extent, in your assessment, has your country of residence [which, for most of you is the U.S.,] impacted your professional prospects, access to reasonable accommodations and quality of life as a blind lawyer? > > I understand, of course, that many of you have not experienced the counterfactual of operating in a different jurisdiction and may not have a good comparator against which to evaluate your experience. What I am hoping to understand, however, is how much of the above is a function of the country that you live in per se versus the micro environment that one operates in i.e. one's financial position, degree of influence, skill/ ability, rapport with one's employer, etc. > > India does have a long way to go in creating a level playing field for blind lawyers, notwithstanding unceasing efforts by some of us to change the landscape. That said, I do think that the micro environment in India will be a lot more suitable for me, because I do have most of the above-mentioned factors going for me. Plus, being an Oxford educated lawyer with a prestigious scholarship does give you access to the upper echelons of the Profession, if you work in that direction. I do not state this boastfully, just as an objective fact. On the other hand, in England, the macro environment does appear a lot more conducive for blind professionals. Reasonable adjustments are firmly guaranteed by law. Folks aren't dealing with the same volume of cases or workload as they are in India, meaning that accessibility does not get sacrificed at the altar of productivity. Most stakeholders are far more well-resourced than they are in India. > > On the micro level, I will have to establish myself in the profession in England, and will, in that sense, be one of the many lawyers on the block. In other words, I may not have the same amount of traction as I would in India. I look forward to hearing your reflections on the above issues. Thank you. > > Best, > Rahul > > > > > -- > -- > Rahul Bajaj > Candidate for the BCL > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) > University of Oxford > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 21:54:33 2019 From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:54:33 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed in html form. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: > > I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office products. > > > > ________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > ________________________________ > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > > > > Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? > >> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > wrote: >> JAWS does this as well. >> >> Brian >> Brian C. Unitt >> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >> >> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >> A Professional Corporation >> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >> Riverside, CA 92501 >> Tel: 951-682-7030 >> Fax: 951-684-8061 >> www.holsteinlaw.com >> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >> Cc: Kelby Carlson > >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote because >> NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >> >>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >>> didn't fix them. >>> >>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier > wrote: >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>> explain the issues with content. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Ger >>>> >>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, it >>>>> wasn't. >>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are we >>>>> going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>> >>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>> >>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes turned >>>>> on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they were >>>>> still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. After >>>>> I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I knew she >>>>> thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, etc etc etc >>>>> etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if anything similar came >>>>> up in the future. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to me, >>>>>> except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same thing >>>>>> happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is ascii value >>>>>> 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. Hate to tell >>>>>> you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out as straight >>>>>> when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen when >>>>>> copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to be >>>>>> so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if it >>>>>> works for you. >>>>>> >>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. I, >>>>>> too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the ascii >>>>>> value. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about double >>>>>>>> quotes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote or >>>>>>>> a closing quote. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped similar >>>>>>>> to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right of >>>>>>>> the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so its >>>>>>>> curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are enclosing the >>>>>>>> material. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since the >>>>>>>> opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you could use >>>>>>>> two apostrophes to represent both opening and closing quotes in >>>>>>>> braille, but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think >>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but someone >>>>>>>> please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting it >>>>>>>> into this email. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>> documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>>> contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>>> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the >>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Ray >>>>>>>> Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > >>>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a smart >>>>>>>> quote? >>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and smart >>>>>>>> quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>> E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com> >>>>>>>> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged >>>>>>>> and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended >>>>>>>> recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If >>>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and >>>>>>>> delete all copies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>> Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get at >>>>>>>> is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there are, >>>>>>>> in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of lesser >>>>>>>> visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come >>>>>>>> along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, the >>>>>>>> person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make over >>>>>>>> and over again, and the people continue to believe that the blind >>>>>>>> person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. This has >>>>>>>> happened to me also. I have even had conversations where I >>>>>>>> initially pressed the superior to give me blind specific >>>>>>>> feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed and said >>>>>>>> "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be >>>>>>>> able to figure out a way to address it." And then they did give >>>>>>>> me some feedback. >>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner told >>>>>>>> my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, he knew >>>>>>>> it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the soft >>>>>>>> skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that is >>>>>>>> indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with a >>>>>>>>> couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and will >>>>>>>>> ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an email >>>>>>>>> off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at >>>>>>>>>> this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you all you >>>>>>>>>> should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights related >>>>>>>>>> work in law school because I did not want to be placed in that >>>>>>>>>> box either. >>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers in >>>>>>>>>> that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. I was >>>>>>>>>> wrong. Do not assume that those who practice disability rights >>>>>>>>>> law are any less susceptible to the biases, misperceptions, or >>>>>>>>>> lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue educating >>>>>>>>>> folks on the reality that blind or visually impaired attorneys >>>>>>>>>> are as capable as their sighted counterparts in all but a very >>>>>>>>>> few ways. My local bar has created a Taskforce to address, >>>>>>>>>> among other issues, employment discrimination against persons >>>>>>>>>> with disabilities in the legal profession. We are trying to >>>>>>>>>> provide education to members of the bar on the capacity of >>>>>>>>>> lawyers with disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>>> some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench and >>>>>>>>>> bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the blog post >>>>>>>>>> linked below. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-Co >>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of that >>>>>>>>>>> for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have worried >>>>>>>>>>> that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume that all of my >>>>>>>>>>> professors have independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This is of course irrational >>>>>>>>>>> but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am not >>>>>>>>>>> particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the reasons >>>>>>>>>>> why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field which others >>>>>>>>>>> expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited to practice law >>>>>>>>>>> in an area related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most excepting >>>>>>>>>>> field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the dictation >>>>>>>>>>> errors. >>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation is >>>>>>>>>>>> that the experience a blind candidate may possess by way of >>>>>>>>>>>> externships and internships does not seem to assuage >>>>>>>>>>>> employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability to >>>>>>>>>>>> practice. Despite my four externships during law school in >>>>>>>>>>>> which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still doubt >>>>>>>>>>>> my abilities to deliver the work they expect. Shouldn’t my >>>>>>>>>>>> history of success in the workplace evidence my ability to >>>>>>>>>>>> thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in general >>>>>>>>>>>> have no issue trusting that I am capable to do something, so >>>>>>>>>>>> long as I am not being paid to do it. I have absolutely no >>>>>>>>>>>> problem securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in law >>>>>>>>>>>>> school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact that I >>>>>>>>>>>>> had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job interview >>>>>>>>>>>>> how I got those things if I can’t read a physical book. They >>>>>>>>>>>>> seemed to be under the impression that someone must have >>>>>>>>>>>>> helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by other >>>>>>>>>>>>> attorneys when they find out I have my own firm versus how I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was treated when I was first out of school and looking for a >>>>>>>>>>>>> job. >>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than I >>>>>>>>>>>>> thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an attorney, practicing for quite some time now--that many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers pretty much look at a blind person's success in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in practice. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think he's right, and it makes a great deal of sense in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law school, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is still extremely important by the way, with all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the things that law school doesn't prepare you for: taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions, handling contentious meetings with opposing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counsel, reviewing documents, and, of course, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before being?? seen as potentially able to do them in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I understand that things are somewhat less grim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for people who have clerkships. I will soon find out if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is true in my own case. I also don't know if the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you can be competitive for opportunities that can act >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive self >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutn >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m13gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>> or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis >>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakut >>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis91 >>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%4 >>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk% >>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>%40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaa >>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40n >>>>>>>> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40l >>>>>>>> oeb.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 22:02:02 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 18:02:02 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> Message-ID: <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> Brian, I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. I've tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: > > It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed in html form. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office products. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >> ________________________________ >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >> >> >> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? >> >>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > wrote: >>> JAWS does this as well. >>> >>> Brian >>> Brian C. Unitt >>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>> >>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>> A Professional Corporation >>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via >>> BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>> Cc: Kelby Carlson > >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>> >>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote because >>> NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>> >>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >>>> didn't fix them. >>>> >>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier > wrote: >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> >>>>> Ger >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, it >>>>>> wasn't. >>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are we >>>>>> going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>> >>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>> >>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes turned >>>>>> on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they were >>>>>> still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. After >>>>>> I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I knew she >>>>>> thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, etc etc etc >>>>>> etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if anything similar came >>>>>> up in the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to me, >>>>>>> except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same thing >>>>>>> happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is ascii value >>>>>>> 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. Hate to tell >>>>>>> you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out as straight >>>>>>> when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen when >>>>>>> copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to be >>>>>>> so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if it >>>>>>> works for you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. I, >>>>>>> too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the ascii >>>>>>> value. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about double >>>>>>>>> quotes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote or >>>>>>>>> a closing quote. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped similar >>>>>>>>> to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right of >>>>>>>>> the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so its >>>>>>>>> curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are enclosing the >>>>>>>>> material. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since the >>>>>>>>> opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you could use >>>>>>>>> two apostrophes to represent both opening and closing quotes in >>>>>>>>> braille, but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think >>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but someone >>>>>>>>> please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting it >>>>>>>>> into this email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>> documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>>>> contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>>>> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the >>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Ray >>>>>>>>> Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > >>>>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a smart >>>>>>>>> quote? >>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and smart >>>>>>>>> quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>> E-Mail: sbg at sbgaal.com> >>>>>>>>> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged >>>>>>>>> and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended >>>>>>>>> recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If >>>>>>>>> you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and >>>>>>>>> delete all copies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get at >>>>>>>>> is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there are, >>>>>>>>> in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of lesser >>>>>>>>> visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come >>>>>>>>> along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, the >>>>>>>>> person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make over >>>>>>>>> and over again, and the people continue to believe that the blind >>>>>>>>> person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. This has >>>>>>>>> happened to me also. I have even had conversations where I >>>>>>>>> initially pressed the superior to give me blind specific >>>>>>>>> feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed and said >>>>>>>>> "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be >>>>>>>>> able to figure out a way to address it." And then they did give >>>>>>>>> me some feedback. >>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner told >>>>>>>>> my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, he knew >>>>>>>>> it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the soft >>>>>>>>> skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that is >>>>>>>>> indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with a >>>>>>>>>> couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and will >>>>>>>>>> ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an email >>>>>>>>>> off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at >>>>>>>>>>> this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you all you >>>>>>>>>>> should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights related >>>>>>>>>>> work in law school because I did not want to be placed in that >>>>>>>>>>> box either. >>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers in >>>>>>>>>>> that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. I was >>>>>>>>>>> wrong. Do not assume that those who practice disability rights >>>>>>>>>>> law are any less susceptible to the biases, misperceptions, or >>>>>>>>>>> lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue educating >>>>>>>>>>> folks on the reality that blind or visually impaired attorneys >>>>>>>>>>> are as capable as their sighted counterparts in all but a very >>>>>>>>>>> few ways. My local bar has created a Taskforce to address, >>>>>>>>>>> among other issues, employment discrimination against persons >>>>>>>>>>> with disabilities in the legal profession. We are trying to >>>>>>>>>>> provide education to members of the bar on the capacity of >>>>>>>>>>> lawyers with disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>>>> some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench and >>>>>>>>>>> bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the blog post >>>>>>>>>>> linked below. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-Co >>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of that >>>>>>>>>>>> for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have worried >>>>>>>>>>>> that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume that all of my >>>>>>>>>>>> professors have independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This is of course irrational >>>>>>>>>>>> but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am not >>>>>>>>>>>> particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the reasons >>>>>>>>>>>> why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field which others >>>>>>>>>>>> expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited to practice law >>>>>>>>>>>> in an area related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most excepting >>>>>>>>>>>> field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the dictation >>>>>>>>>>>> errors. >>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation is >>>>>>>>>>>>> that the experience a blind candidate may possess by way of >>>>>>>>>>>>> externships and internships does not seem to assuage >>>>>>>>>>>>> employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability to >>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. Despite my four externships during law school in >>>>>>>>>>>>> which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still doubt >>>>>>>>>>>>> my abilities to deliver the work they expect. Shouldn’t my >>>>>>>>>>>>> history of success in the workplace evidence my ability to >>>>>>>>>>>>> thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in general >>>>>>>>>>>>> have no issue trusting that I am capable to do something, so >>>>>>>>>>>>> long as I am not being paid to do it. I have absolutely no >>>>>>>>>>>>> problem securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>> school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact that I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job interview >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how I got those things if I can’t read a physical book. They >>>>>>>>>>>>>> seemed to be under the impression that someone must have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> attorneys when they find out I have my own firm versus how I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was treated when I was first out of school and looking for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an attorney, practicing for quite some time now--that many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers pretty much look at a blind person's success in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in practice. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think he's right, and it makes a great deal of sense in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law school, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is still extremely important by the way, with all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the things that law school doesn't prepare you for: taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depositions, handling contentious meetings with opposing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counsel, reviewing documents, and, of course, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before being?? seen as potentially able to do them in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I understand that things are somewhat less grim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for people who have clerkships. I will soon find out if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is true in my own case. I also don't know if the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you can be competitive for opportunities that can act >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive self >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>akutn >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m13gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>ey%40 >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakut >>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdavis91 >>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%4 >>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk% >>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>%40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaa >>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40n >>>>>>>>> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40l >>>>>>>>> oeb.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com Tue Oct 1 22:09:52 2019 From: BrianUnitt at holsteinlaw.com (Brian Unitt) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:09:52 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> Laura, Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. Brian Brian C. Unitt Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional Corporation 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 Tel: 951-682-7030 Fax: 951-684-8061 www.holsteinlaw.com mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination Brian, I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. I've tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: > > It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed in html form. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office products. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >> ________________________________ >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >> >> >> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? >> >>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > wrote: >>> JAWS does this as well. >>> >>> Brian >>> Brian C. Unitt >>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>> >>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>> A Professional Corporation >>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>> .com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw >>> > On >>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> > >>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>> >>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote >>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>> >>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >>>> didn't fix them. >>>> >>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier > wrote: >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> >>>>> Ger >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are >>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>> >>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>> >>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. >>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out >>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to >>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if >>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the >>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote >>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right >>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since >>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting >>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that is >>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the >>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended >>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get >>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there >>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, >>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make >>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. >>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed >>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, >>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, >>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that >>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with >>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an >>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter >>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers >>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with disabilities >>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide education >>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> sm-C >> > >> >>>>>>>>ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to be >>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited >>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability >>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law school >>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>akutn >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> tn% >> > cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >> >>>>> >> >>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >> >>>>> >> >>>>>>>>ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >> >>>>> >> >>>>>>>>ey%40 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> %40 >> > R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> davi >> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> raku >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >> >> >> >>>>>>>>193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 817% >> > >>>>>>>>>>40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wolk >> >> >>>>>>>>%40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>> ier >>>>>> >>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>> 40g >>>> >>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>> olsteinlaw.com >>> >> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>> mail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >> com _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >> %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma > il.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 22:27:09 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 18:27:09 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> Message-ID: <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary manager. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw wrote: > > Laura, > > Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist in Appellate Law > By The State Bar of California > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > > Brian, > I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. I've tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed in html form. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office products. >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>> ________________________________ >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>> >>> >>> >>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? >>> >>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>> >>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>> A Professional Corporation >>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>> .com >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw >>>> > On >>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> > >>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>> >>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote >>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>> >>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier > wrote: >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Ger >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are >>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. >>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out >>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to >>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if >>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the >>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote >>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right >>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since >>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting >>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that is >>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the >>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended >>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get >>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there >>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, >>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make >>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. >>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed >>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, >>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, >>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that >>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with >>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an >>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter >>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers >>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide education >>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited >>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> tn% >>> >> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> %40 >>> >> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> davi >>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> raku >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 817% >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wolk >>> >>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>> ier >>>>>>> >>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>> 40g >>>>> >>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>> >>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>> com _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From amatney at loeb.com Tue Oct 1 22:40:40 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:40:40 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D722C@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and \8221 to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do this for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m excited to have these pronounced differently. Angie Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | E-mail:amatney at loeb.com Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary manager. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > wrote: > > Laura, > > Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist in Appellate Law > By The State Bar of California > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > > Cc: Laura Wolk > > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > > Brian, > I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. I've tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > wrote: >> >> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed in html form. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: >>> >>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office products. >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>> ________________________________ >>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>> >>> >>> >>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? >>> >>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>> >>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>> A Professional Corporation >>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>><%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw >>>> >> On >>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> >> >>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>> >>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote >>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>> >>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >> wrote: >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Ger >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are >>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. >>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >> wrote: >>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out >>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to >>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if >>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the >>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote >>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right >>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since >>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting >>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that is >>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the >>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended >>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get >>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there >>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, >>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make >>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. >>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed >>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, >>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, >>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that >>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with >>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an >>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter >>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers >>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide education >>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> sm-C >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited >>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> g/cj >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> /jtf >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> maur >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> maur >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> akutn >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> tn% >>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3cBR >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 13gr >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 13gr >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40 >>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> davi >>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> raku >>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> vis9 >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 817% >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> wolk >>> > >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>> ier >>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>> 40g >>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>> com _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >> il.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2157 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From laura.wolk at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 22:53:57 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 18:53:57 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D722C@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D722C@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can also do this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got broken somewhere along the way. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: > > Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and \8221 to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do this for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m excited to have these pronounced differently. > > Angie > > > > Angela Matney, CIPP/US > Attorney at Law > [Loeb & Loeb LLP] > Loeb and Loeb LLP > 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 > Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | E-mail:amatney at loeb.com > Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com > > > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Laura Wolk > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > > > > Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary manager. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > wrote: >> >> Laura, >> >> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >> >> Brian >> Brian C. Unitt >> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >> By The State Bar of California >> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >> A Professional Corporation >> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >> Riverside, CA 92501 >> Tel: 951-682-7030 >> Fax: 951-684-8061 >> www.holsteinlaw.com >> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >> Cc: Laura Wolk > >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >> Brian, >> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. I've tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > wrote: >>> >>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed in html form. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>> >>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office products. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? >>>> >>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>> >>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>> >> On >>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> >> >>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>> >>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote >>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >> wrote: >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are >>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. >>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out >>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to >>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if >>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the >>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote >>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right >>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since >>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting >>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that is >>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the >>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended >>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get >>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there >>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, >>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make >>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. >>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed >>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, >>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, >>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that >>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with >>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an >>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers >>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide education >>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> sm-C >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> g/cj >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> /jtf >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> maur >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> maur >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> akutn >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> tn% >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3cBR >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 13gr >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 13gr >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40 >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> davi >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> raku >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> vis9 >>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 817% >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> wolk >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>> 40g >>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 10:28:52 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 06:28:52 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D722C@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: <1B408D35-C68E-4882-BC80-ABC62DDB3ECC@gmail.com> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it seems necessary for proofing. I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a non-breaking space is. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can also do this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got broken somewhere along the way. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and \8221 to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do this for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m excited to have these pronounced differently. >> >> Angie >> >> >> >> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >> Attorney at Law >> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >> Loeb and Loeb LLP >> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >> >> >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >> >> >> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary manager. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > wrote: >>> >>> Laura, >>> >>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>> >>> Brian >>> Brian C. Unitt >>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>> By The State Bar of California >>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>> A Professional Corporation >>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>> >>> Brian, >>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. I've tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>> >>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed in html form. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office products. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you mean? >>>>> >>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>> >>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>> >> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote >>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >> wrote: >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are >>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about highlighting. >>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. >>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out >>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to >>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if >>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the >>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote >>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right >>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since >>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting >>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> g> >>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that is >>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the >>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended >>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get >>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there >>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, >>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make >>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. >>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed >>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, >>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, >>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that >>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with >>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an >>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide education >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> sm-C >>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> g/cj >>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> /jtf >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> maur >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> maur >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> tn% >>>>> > >>>><%3e%3e%3e> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3cBR >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 13gr >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 13gr >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40 >>>>> > >>>><%3e%3e%3e> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> davi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> raku >>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> vis9 >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 817% >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> wolk >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>> > >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>> > >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>> il.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 11:09:23 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 07:09:23 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: <1B408D35-C68E-4882-BC80-ABC62DDB3ECC@gmail.com> References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D722C@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1B408D35-C68E-4882-BC80-ABC62DDB3ECC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Kelby, A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. I hope this is helpful. Laura On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader read as > you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close to > everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it seems > necessary for proofing. > > I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different kinds > of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a non-breaking > space is. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can also do >> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got broken >> somewhere along the way. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and \8221 >>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The >>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do this >>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> >>> >>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>> Attorney at Law >>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>> >>> >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >>> BlindLaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>> >>> >>> >>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have ms >>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary manager. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>> By The State Bar of California >>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>> A Professional Corporation >>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BlindLaw >>>> > On >>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> > >>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no >>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. I've >>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest version >>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed in >>>>> html form. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text >>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does >>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the >>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to >>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, >>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or >>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments >>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>> > On >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you >>>>>> mean? >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote >>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if I >>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your under-graduate >>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact on >>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are >>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me to >>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. >>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come out >>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to >>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see if >>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a control+F >>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the >>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote >>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the right >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since >>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it >>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in >>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the >>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> g>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My question >>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that is >>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended >>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't quite >>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to get >>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that there >>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they make >>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell me, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with me, >>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness that >>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you are >>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> sm-C >>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> g/cj >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> /jtf >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> maur >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> maur >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> tn% >>>>>> >> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> 3cBR >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> 13gr >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> 13gr >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %40 >>>>>> >> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> davi >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> raku >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> vis9 >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> 817% >>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> wolk >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>> >>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>> >> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>> >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>> >>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>> >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>> >>>>> il.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To >>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To >>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw >>> mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From howardadelsberg at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 17:13:27 2019 From: howardadelsberg at gmail.com (Howard Adelsberg) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 13:13:27 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question In-Reply-To: <004101d56d94$ffc95670$ff5c0350$@nyc.rr.com> References: <004101d56d94$ffc95670$ff5c0350$@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <1a4f01d57944$b67537d0$235fa770$@gmail.com> Ray, what is your contact info? -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 4:18 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question Hi Howard: I don't do it for a living, but I know a thing or two. Please feel free to contact me off list. Ray Wayne, New York City -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 12:59 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Howard Adelsberg Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question Does anyone on the list handle disability law that I may ask a quick question about benefits? -- Howard M. Adelsberg [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 09/17/19, 12:59:07 PM _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg%40gmai l.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Oct 2 20:01:46 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:01:46 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: ABA & AUWCL Event: Creating Opportunities for Law Students with Disabilities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009201d5795c$38fcc760$aaf65620$@labarrelaw.com> FYI and feel free to spread the word. Thanks, Scott From: Allbright, Amy Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 12:16 PM To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com; Lou Ann Blake Cc: Robert T. Gonzales Subject: ABA & AUWCL Event: Creating Opportunities for Law Students with Disabilities Scott, Lou Ann, and CDR Commissioners, The program is targeted to law firms interested in disability diversity and inclusion, law schools, and law students. Can you post to DRBA website and past tenBroeck attendees to spread the word: https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/09/program-t o-discuss-creating-opportunities-for-law-students-with-/ Here is a tweet if you can retweet: https://twitter.com/ABADisability/status/1174763935020605440 ABA Press release here: https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/09/program-t o-discuss-creating-opportunities-for-law-students-with-/ Amy L. Allbright Director Commission on Disability Rights (CDR) Mail Stop 11.0 American Bar Association (ABA) 1050 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 400 Washington, DC 20036 T: 202.662.1575 F: 202.442.3439 Amy.Allbright at americanbar.org http://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/disabilityrights From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Oct 2 21:13:18 2019 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 17:13:18 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question In-Reply-To: <1a4f01d57944$b67537d0$235fa770$@gmail.com> References: <004101d56d94$ffc95670$ff5c0350$@nyc.rr.com> <1a4f01d57944$b67537d0$235fa770$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004901d57966$38b32fb0$aa198f10$@nyc.rr.com> This email address or (718) 491-0053. Ray -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 1:13 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Howard Adelsberg Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question Ray, what is your contact info? -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 4:18 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question Hi Howard: I don't do it for a living, but I know a thing or two. Please feel free to contact me off list. Ray Wayne, New York City -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 12:59 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Howard Adelsberg Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question Does anyone on the list handle disability law that I may ask a quick question about benefits? -- Howard M. Adelsberg [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 09/17/19, 12:59:07 PM _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From howardadelsberg at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 21:15:59 2019 From: howardadelsberg at gmail.com (Howard Adelsberg) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 17:15:59 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question In-Reply-To: <004901d57966$38b32fb0$aa198f10$@nyc.rr.com> References: <004901d57966$38b32fb0$aa198f10$@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <5EF5DF81-F54A-4156-833E-211F11B28326@gmail.com> When is a good time to call you? > On Oct 2, 2019, at 5:14 PM, Ray Wayne via BlindLaw wrote: > > This email address or (718) 491-0053. > Ray > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard Adelsberg > via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 1:13 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Howard Adelsberg > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question > > Ray, what is your contact info? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray Wayne > via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 4:18 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question > > Hi Howard: > I don't do it for a living, but I know a thing or two. Please feel free to > contact me off list. > Ray Wayne, New York City > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard Adelsberg > via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 12:59 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Howard Adelsberg > Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question > > Does anyone on the list handle disability law that I may ask a quick > question about benefits? > > -- > > > > Howard M. Adelsberg > > [image: Mailtrack] > naturevirality5&> > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > naturevirality5&> > 09/17/19, > 12:59:07 PM > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg%40gmail.com From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Oct 2 21:23:30 2019 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 17:23:30 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question In-Reply-To: <5EF5DF81-F54A-4156-833E-211F11B28326@gmail.com> References: <004901d57966$38b32fb0$aa198f10$@nyc.rr.com> <5EF5DF81-F54A-4156-833E-211F11B28326@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004b01d57967$a5172ed0$ef458c70$@nyc.rr.com> Tomorrow morning or any time Friday. If you get my voicemail, please leave your name and number and a good time to call you. Ray -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:16 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Howard Adelsberg Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question When is a good time to call you? > On Oct 2, 2019, at 5:14 PM, Ray Wayne via BlindLaw wrote: > > This email address or (718) 491-0053. > Ray > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard > Adelsberg via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 1:13 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Howard Adelsberg > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question > > Ray, what is your contact info? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray > Wayne via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 4:18 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question > > Hi Howard: > I don't do it for a living, but I know a thing or two. Please feel > free to contact me off list. > Ray Wayne, New York City > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard > Adelsberg via BlindLaw > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 12:59 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Howard Adelsberg > Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question > > Does anyone on the list handle disability law that I may ask a quick > question about benefits? > > -- > > > > Howard M. Adelsberg > > [image: Mailtrack] > gn=sig > naturevirality5&> > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > gn=sig > naturevirality5&> > 09/17/19, > 12:59:07 PM > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg% > 40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg% > 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From howardadelsberg at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 21:35:46 2019 From: howardadelsberg at gmail.com (Howard Adelsberg) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 17:35:46 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question In-Reply-To: <004b01d57967$a5172ed0$ef458c70$@nyc.rr.com> References: <004b01d57967$a5172ed0$ef458c70$@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <668F8FCB-0827-4558-A5CC-9D5EBBBAC0AD@gmail.com> Thanks. You are on central time? > On Oct 2, 2019, at 5:24 PM, Ray Wayne via BlindLaw wrote: > > Tomorrow morning or any time Friday. If you get my voicemail, please leave your name and number and a good time to call you. > Ray > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:16 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Howard Adelsberg > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question > > When is a good time to call you? > >> On Oct 2, 2019, at 5:14 PM, Ray Wayne via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> This email address or (718) 491-0053. >> Ray >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard >> Adelsberg via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 1:13 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Howard Adelsberg >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question >> >> Ray, what is your contact info? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray >> Wayne via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 4:18 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question >> >> Hi Howard: >> I don't do it for a living, but I know a thing or two. Please feel >> free to contact me off list. >> Ray Wayne, New York City >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard >> Adelsberg via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 12:59 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Howard Adelsberg >> Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question >> >> Does anyone on the list handle disability law that I may ask a quick >> question about benefits? >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Howard M. Adelsberg >> >> [image: Mailtrack] >> > gn=sig >> naturevirality5&> >> Sender >> notified by >> Mailtrack >> > gn=sig >> naturevirality5&> >> 09/17/19, >> 12:59:07 PM >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg% >> 40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg% >> 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howard.adelsberg%40gmail.com From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Oct 2 21:52:57 2019 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 17:52:57 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question In-Reply-To: <668F8FCB-0827-4558-A5CC-9D5EBBBAC0AD@gmail.com> References: <004b01d57967$a5172ed0$ef458c70$@nyc.rr.com> <668F8FCB-0827-4558-A5CC-9D5EBBBAC0AD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005c01d5796b$c25c2d20$47148760$@nyc.rr.com> Eastern. -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard Adelsberg via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:36 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Howard Adelsberg Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question Thanks. You are on central time? > On Oct 2, 2019, at 5:24 PM, Ray Wayne via BlindLaw wrote: > > Tomorrow morning or any time Friday. If you get my voicemail, please leave your name and number and a good time to call you. > Ray > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard > Adelsberg via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:16 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Howard Adelsberg > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question > > When is a good time to call you? > >> On Oct 2, 2019, at 5:14 PM, Ray Wayne via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> This email address or (718) 491-0053. >> Ray >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard >> Adelsberg via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 1:13 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Howard Adelsberg >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question >> >> Ray, what is your contact info? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray >> Wayne via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 4:18 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question >> >> Hi Howard: >> I don't do it for a living, but I know a thing or two. Please feel >> free to contact me off list. >> Ray Wayne, New York City >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Howard >> Adelsberg via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 12:59 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Howard Adelsberg >> Subject: [blindLaw] Disability Benefits Question >> >> Does anyone on the list handle disability law that I may ask a quick >> question about benefits? >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Howard M. Adelsberg >> >> [image: Mailtrack] >> > i >> gn=sig >> naturevirality5&> >> Sender >> notified by >> Mailtrack >> > i >> gn=sig >> naturevirality5&> >> 09/17/19, >> 12:59:07 PM >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.r >> r >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg >> % >> 40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.r >> r >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howardadelsberg >> % >> 40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/howard.adelsberg > %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 22:13:28 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 18:13:28 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination Message-ID: All, I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of blindness-only formatting errors. By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another document, program, or website, Word will retain the original formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special formatting will be retained. With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its very smart "auto" features. Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of options. Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. Happy formatting, Laura On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Laura, > > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors > spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included > in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of > documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at > bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) > > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am > still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my > documents. > > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Kelby, >> >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >> >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >> >> I hope this is helpful. >> >> Laura >> >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader read >>> as >>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close to >>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>> seems >>> necessary for proofing. >>> >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different >>> kinds >>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a non-breaking >>> space is. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can also >>>> do >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got broken >>>> somewhere along the way. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>> \8221 >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The >>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do this >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>> via >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have >>>>> ms >>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>> manager. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>> > On >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian, >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no >>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>> I've >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>> version >>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a >>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come >>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see >>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> g>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> maur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> maur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> tn% >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40 >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> davi >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> raku >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 817% >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> wolk >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>> >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To >>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To >>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > From rfarber at jw.com Thu Oct 3 02:37:17 2019 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 02:37:17 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, just press the letters consecutively ) I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into which it is pasted. Is this your experience. There are also two keystrokes that I think help. If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the text is removed. There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I don't remember it right now. Randy -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM To: Kelby Carlson Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** All, I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of blindness-only formatting errors. By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another document, program, or website, Word will retain the original formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special formatting will be retained. With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its very smart "auto" features. Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of options. Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. Happy formatting, Laura On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Laura, > > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors > spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included > in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of > documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at > bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) > > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am > still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my > documents. > > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Kelby, >> >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >> >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >> >> I hope this is helpful. >> >> Laura >> >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader read >>> as >>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close to >>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>> seems >>> necessary for proofing. >>> >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different >>> kinds >>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a non-breaking >>> space is. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can also >>>> do >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got broken >>>> somewhere along the way. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>> \8221 >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The >>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do this >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>> via >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have >>>>> ms >>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>> manager. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>> > On >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian, >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no >>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>> I've >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>> version >>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a >>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come >>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see >>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> g>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> maur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> maur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> tn% >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40 >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> davi >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> raku >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 817% >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> wolk >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>> >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To >>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To >>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.com From will.burley3 at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 04:27:32 2019 From: will.burley3 at gmail.com (Will Burley) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 23:27:32 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This conversation has been very welcomed! On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use > paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the keystrokes > are to > copy the text onto the clipboard and > move to where you want the text copied > press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, just press the letters > consecutively ) > > I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into > which it is pasted. > > Is this your experience. > > There are also two keystrokes that I think help. > If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the text > is removed. > There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I don't > remember it right now. > > Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via > BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM > To: Kelby Carlson > Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> > Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: > Discrimination > > **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** > > All, > > I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses > like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets > this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of > blindness-only formatting errors. > > By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another > document, program, or website, Word will retain the original > formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is > in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, > you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and > anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same > goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from > pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most > often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only > causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to > preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately > after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special > formatting will be retained. > > With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable > typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word > options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. > Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents > and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to > merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and > auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- > indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press > tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean > that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way > into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its > very smart "auto" features. > > Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as > well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of > options. > > Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** > see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, > though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or > computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and > the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. > > Happy formatting, > Laura > > On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > > Laura, > > > > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a > > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be > > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my > > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. > > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors > > spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included > > in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of > > documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at > > bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) > > > > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely > > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am > > still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my > > documents. > > > > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > >> Kelby, > >> > >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap > >> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, > >> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended > >> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a > >> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A > >> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between > >> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two > >> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This > >> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of > >> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out > >> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings > >> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not > >> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. > >> > >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have > >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, > >> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but > >> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. > >> > >> I hope this is helpful. > >> > >> Laura > >> > >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader read > >>> as > >>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close to > >>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it > >>> seems > >>> necessary for proofing. > >>> > >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different > >>> kinds > >>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a non-breaking > >>> space is. > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can > also > >>>> do > >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got broken > >>>> somewhere along the way. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and > >>>>> \8221 > >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By > >>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The > >>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do > this > >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you > . > I’m > >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. > >>>>> > >>>>> Angie > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US > >>>>> Attorney at Law > >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] > >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP > >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 > >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | > >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com > >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San > >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk > >>>>> via > >>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM > >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have > >>>>> ms > >>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary > >>>>> manager. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > >>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Laura, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brian > >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt > >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law > >>>>>> By The State Bar of California > >>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > >>>>>> A Professional Corporation > >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 > >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 > >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 > >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com > >>>>>> mailto: > brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>> > > On > >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM > >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brian, > >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no > >>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. > >>>>>> I've > >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest > >>>>>> version > >>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > >>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>> html form. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a > >>>>>>>> text > >>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it > >>>>>>>> does > >>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any > >>>>>>>> documents, > >>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain > >>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are > not > >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > >>>>>>>> disclosure, > >>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained > in > >>>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have > >>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the > >>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its > >>>>>>>> attachments > >>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb > >>>>>>>> LLP. > >>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On > >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM > >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what > >>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>> mean? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Brian > >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt > >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law > >>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation > >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 > >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 > >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 > >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >mailto: > brianunitt at holsteinlaw > >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>> On > >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM > >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson > >>>>>>>>> kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart > >>>>>>>>> quote > >>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward > if > >>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier > >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your > >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate > >>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would > presumably > >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact > >>>>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and > >>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Ger > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in > >>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the > >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," > >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In > fact, > >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're > >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked > >>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really > >>>>>>>>>>>> think > >>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work > >>>>>>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And > >>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me > >>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes > >>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about > >>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. > >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be > >>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the > >>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they > >>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing > >>>>>>>>>>>> everything. > >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I > >>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, > >>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if > >>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>>>>>> laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same > >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and > 8217. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come > >>>>>>>>>>>>> out > >>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also > happen > >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see > >>>>>>>>>>>>> if > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these > symbols. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F > >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” > so > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me > it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>< > http://www.loeb.com/>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/ > www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission > is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading > or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or > >>>>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or > >>>>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> g >>>>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindla > >>>>> %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com%3c > >>>>> 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you > explain. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com %3cm %3cm> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about > the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates > and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law > school > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some > of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> sm-C > >>>>>>>> < > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C%0b>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a > legal > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud > of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of > a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This > is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I > am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ > observation > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a > job > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my > schooling. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of > school > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to > make > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus > for > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>> %20%25%0b>>>> > >>>>> %20%25%0b>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will > soon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also > don't > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? > setting, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my > naive > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho > Steele-Louchart > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on > or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/ > nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> BlindLaw: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> g/cj > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org : > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/ > nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o > -- Will Burley Mobile: (713) 614-3322 Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com “I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display it.” –Maya Angelou From angie.matney at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 12:05:58 2019 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 08:05:58 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Text boxes, check marks, and tables ... Oh my! Message-ID: <1D66836F-1456-492C-A496-1F58BCF7A891@gmail.com> Hello all, I have been inspired by the recent formatting threads to post here about two unrelated issues I have to deal with in Word on a fairly regular basis. I'm hoping that someone can offer some tips for dealing with these. First, textboxes: How do people read and edit the text in these? I did find instructions to theoretically get JAWS to read the content of the textbox, but performance was inconsistent. Of chrse, this could have been operator error. What do you all do when you have to access them? The second involves a document that contains a table, and within most entries of the table, there are multiple selections that someone who is filling out the form can make via checkboxes. JAWS seems to lag for me with this kind of document' and I'm not sure of the best workaround. In both cases, I have found that I can sometimes get acces to more information by saving the files as web pages, but this doesn't help if I need to edit the content. Thanks for any insight. Angie Sent from my iPhone From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 13:26:06 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 09:26:06 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Randy, I haven't tried that. Usually pasting as text isn't a viable solution for me. I'm usually pasting from Westlaw, so pasting as text would strip out the italics etc from citations that I'd need to redo, and it would also reintroduce straight quotes into my doc. Laura On 10/3/19, Will Burley via BlindLaw wrote: > This conversation has been very welcomed! > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > >> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use >> paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the keystrokes >> are to >> copy the text onto the clipboard and >> move to where you want the text copied >> press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, just press the letters >> consecutively ) >> >> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into >> which it is pasted. >> >> Is this your experience. >> >> There are also two keystrokes that I think help. >> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the text >> is removed. >> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I don't >> remember it right now. >> >> Randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM >> To: Kelby Carlson >> Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List < >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> >> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: >> Discrimination >> >> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** >> >> All, >> >> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >> blindness-only formatting errors. >> >> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >> formatting will be retained. >> >> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >> very smart "auto" features. >> >> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >> options. >> >> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >> >> Happy formatting, >> Laura >> >> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >> > Laura, >> > >> > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >> > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >> > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >> > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >> > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors >> > spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included >> > in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >> > documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >> > bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >> > >> > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >> > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am >> > still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >> > documents. >> > >> > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> >> Kelby, >> >> >> >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >> >> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >> >> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >> >> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >> >> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >> >> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >> >> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >> >> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >> >> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >> >> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >> >> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >> >> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >> >> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >> >> >> >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >> >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >> >> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >> >> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >> >> >> >> I hope this is helpful. >> >> >> >> Laura >> >> >> >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >> >>> read >> >>> as >> >>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close >> >>> to >> >>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >> >>> seems >> >>> necessary for proofing. >> >>> >> >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different >> >>> kinds >> >>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >> >>> non-breaking >> >>> space is. >> >>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> >> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> >>>> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can >> also >> >>>> do >> >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >> >>>> broken >> >>>> somewhere along the way. >> >>>> >> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >> >>>>> \8221 >> >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >> >>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The >> >>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do >> this >> >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you >> . >> I’m >> >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Angie >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >> >>>>> Attorney at Law >> >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >> >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >> >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >> >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >> >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >> >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >> >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> >>>>> via >> >>>>> BlindLaw >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >> >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have >> >>>>> ms >> >>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >> >>>>> manager. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >> >>>>>> > wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Laura, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Brian >> >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >> >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >> >>>>>> By The State Bar of California >> >>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >> >>>>>> A Professional Corporation >> >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >> >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >> >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >> >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >> >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >> >>>>>> mailto: >> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>> From: BlindLaw >> >>>>>> > >> On >> >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >> >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Brian, >> >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm >> >>>>>> no >> >>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >> >>>>>> I've >> >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >> >>>>>> version >> >>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>> > wrote: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >> >>>>>>> viewed >> >>>>>>> in >> >>>>>>> html form. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>> > wrote: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a >> >>>>>>>> text >> >>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >> >>>>>>>> does >> >>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port >> >>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >> >>>>>>>> documents, >> >>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >> >>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are >> not >> >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >> >>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >> >>>>>>>> disclosure, >> >>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained >> in >> >>>>>>>> or >> >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >> >>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify >> >>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >> >>>>>>>> attachments >> >>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >> >>>>>>>> LLP. >> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> On >> >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >> >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >> >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >> >>>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>>> mean? >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Brian >> >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >> >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >> >>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >> >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >> >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >> >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >> >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >> >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >> >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >mailto: >> brianunitt at holsteinlaw >> >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>> > > >>> >> >>>>>>>>> On >> >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >> >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> >>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >> >>>>>>>>> > kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >> >>>>>>>>> quote >> >>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward >> if >> >>>>>>>>>> I >> >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >> >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >> >>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >> presumably >> >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >> >>>>>>>>>>> impact >> >>>>>>>>>>> on >> >>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >> >>>>>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Ger >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >> >>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >> >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >> >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >> fact, >> >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >> >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >> >>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >> >>>>>>>>>>>> think >> >>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >> >>>>>>>>>>>> are >> >>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> And >> >>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for >> >>>>>>>>>>>> me >> >>>>>>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >> >>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >> >>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to >> >>>>>>>>>>>> be >> >>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >> >>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >> >>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >> >>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I >> >>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated >> >>>>>>>>>>>> it, >> >>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me >> >>>>>>>>>>>> if >> >>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >> 8217. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >> happen >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> see >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >> symbols. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” >> so >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me >> it >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>< >> http://www.loeb.com/>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/ >> www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission >> is >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading >> or >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >> >>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >> >>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> g> >>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindla >> >>>>> > %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > sbg at sbgaal.com%3c >> >>>>> > 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >> explain. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com> %3cm> %3cm> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >> that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe >> that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about >> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates >> and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >> school >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some >> of >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali >> >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>> sm-C >> >>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C%0b>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >> legal >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud >> of >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of >> a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This >> is >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I >> am >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >> observation >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a >> job >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >> schooling. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >> school >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to >> make >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus >> for >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > %20%25%0b>>>> >> >>>>> > %20%25%0b>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will >> soon >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >> don't >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >> setting, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities >> that >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >> naive >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >> Steele-Louchart >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on >> or >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >> >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >> >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/ >> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> > >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> BlindLaw: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >> >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>> g/cj >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> : >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >> >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >> >>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >> >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/ >> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >> > -- > Will Burley > Mobile: (713) 614-3322 > Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com > > “I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display > it.” –Maya Angelou > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 13:26:25 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 09:26:25 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself when you are done editing? On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > I do it at the end. > > On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >> Laura, >> >> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in a >> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't fix >> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the main >> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >> >> >> >> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> All, >>> >>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>> >>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>> formatting will be retained. >>> >>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>> very smart "auto" features. >>> >>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >>> options. >>> >>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>> >>> Happy formatting, >>> Laura >>> >>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors >>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included >>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>> >>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am >>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>>> documents. >>>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> Kelby, >>>>> >>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>> >>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>> >>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>>> read >>>>>> as >>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close >>>>>> to >>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>>>>> seems >>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>> different >>>>>> kinds >>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>> space is. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>> broken >>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to >>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward >>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> > -- Kelby Carlson From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 13:29:03 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 09:29:03 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] ; Message-ID: All, I passed along the left quote, right quote suggestion to my contacts at Vispero. We'll see what happens in Jaws 2020, which is supposed to reach final form by the end of October. **Please** don't just make comments on this list, but also pass along what you think Jaws should look like to the folks who can actually change it! Laura On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt wrote: > Agreed, hope it works. > > Brian > Brian C. Unitt > Certified Specialist in Appellate Law > By The State Bar of California > Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > A Professional Corporation > 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > Riverside, CA 92501 > Tel: 951-682-7030 > Fax: 951-684-8061 > www.holsteinlaw.com > mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Laura Wolk > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:27 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Brian Unitt > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > > Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have ms word > 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary manager. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Laura, >> >> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >> >> Brian >> Brian C. Unitt >> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >> By The State Bar of California >> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >> A Professional Corporation >> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >> Riverside, CA 92501 >> Tel: 951-682-7030 >> Fax: 951-684-8061 >> www.holsteinlaw.com >> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Laura Wolk >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >> >> Brian, >> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no >> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. I've >> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest version >> of Jaws and is it working for you? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed in >>> html form. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a text >>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it does do >>>> it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port the >>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, >>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the >>>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, >>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or >>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments >>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>> via BlindLaw >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what you >>>> mean? >>>> >>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of California >>>>> Board of Legal Specialization >>>>> >>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinla >>>>> w >>>>> .com >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>> > >>>>> On Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> > >>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>> >>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart quote >>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if >>>>>> I didn't fix them. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact >>>>>>> on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >>>>>>> and explain the issues with content. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the "substance," >>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're tasked >>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really think >>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work are >>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me >>>>>>>> to fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing everything. >>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come >>>>>>>>> out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>> happen when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with the >>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems to >>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see >>>>>>>>> if it works for you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>> control+F before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and >>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for the >>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in the >>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the bottom. >>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol that >>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening quote >>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>> right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards >>>>>>>>>>> “C,” so its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, since >>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it I’m >>>>>>>>>>> wrong. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>> e %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission >>>>>>>>>>> in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy >>>>>>>>>>> the original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> r >>>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> r >>>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>>> s @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> c >>>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between a >>>>>>>>>>> straight and smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com>>>>>>>>>> m ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that >>>>>>>>>>> is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>> the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance >>>>>>>>>>> or distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>> quite understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to >>>>>>>>>>> get at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>> there are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce >>>>>>>>>>> work of lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal >>>>>>>>>>> assistants or whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie said, >>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>> make over and over again, and the people continue to believe >>>>>>>>>>> that the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>> pressed and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you >>>>>>>>>>> tell me, I will be able to figure out a way to address it." >>>>>>>>>>> And then they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and noticed >>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with >>>>>>>>>>> me, he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>> that is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, >>>>>>>>>>> you are occasionally doing something that makes your >>>>>>>>>>> documents look strange." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations with >>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you >>>>>>>>>>>> an email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have no employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far >>>>>>>>>>>>> too bitter at this point to sell someone on a career in >>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I think Meredith and James have done an excellent job >>>>>>>>>>>>> of giving you all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that employers >>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that leads to >>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide education >>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali >>>>>>>>>>>>> s >>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> i >>>>>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited to practice law in an area related to one of my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> most visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school in which I was able to perform the work assigned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat less grim for people who have clerkships. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will soon find out if this is true in my own case. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also don't know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, so that you can be competitive for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities that can act as a bridge to a long-term, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full-time position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> r >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> r >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> r g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> r >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> % 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> / >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>> >>>>>> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3c >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> % >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> / >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>> >>>>> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> / >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>> >>>>> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> u >>>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>> >>> 3 cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> % >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> % >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> % 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> y >>>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>> >>> B R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> % 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> d >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> j >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davi >>>> >>> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> n dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> c >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mau >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> r >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> u >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raku >>>> >> >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>> d Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> B >>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>> n >>>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbne >>>>>>>>>>>>>> t >>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjda >>>>>>>>>>>>>> v >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>> L aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> R >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> R >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/l >>>>>>>>>>>>> i >>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>> e %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>> 8 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>> s >>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> o >>>>>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>> >>> b >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>> a w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> % >>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>> e>B >>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>> e>s >>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>> e>3 e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>> e>or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura. >>>>>>>>>>>> w >>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>> w @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3 e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40s >>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> s bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>> w @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3 e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1 >>>>>>>>>>> % >>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1 %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>> w @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3 e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney >>>>>>>>>>> % >>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> y %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> e %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>> or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wo >>>>>>>>>> l >>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> o lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3 e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>> your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sad >>>>>>>> l >>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> d lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>> % >>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson >>>>>> % >>>>>> 40g >>>>>> >>>>> n >>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40 >>>>> h >>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>> >>>> 0 >>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40 >>>>> g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e_________________________ >>>> _ _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj103 >>>> 8 >>>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gm >>> a >>> il.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40hol >> steinlaw.com _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 13:29:39 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 09:29:39 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use the auto feature at the end. On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you > are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself when > you are done editing? > > On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> I do it at the end. >> >> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in a >>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't fix >>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the main >>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> All, >>>> >>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>> >>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>>> formatting will be retained. >>>> >>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>> >>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >>>> options. >>>> >>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>> >>>> Happy formatting, >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>> Laura, >>>>> >>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors >>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included >>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am >>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>>>> documents. >>>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>> >>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>> instance, >>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden >>>>>> ended >>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. >>>>>> This >>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>>>>>> seems >>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>> different >>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. >>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm >>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to >>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 13:32:04 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 09:32:04 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Guys, For those who missed the messages that were just between Kelby and myself, he asked what I do when I need to make a long document that has a very long numbered list, like a complaint. I responded that I write the material and then apply auto-numbering at the end. I'm very happy to continue answering any additional questions. Please make sure when you are responding to check your reply or reply all fields to ensure that if you meanto respond on-list, that blindlaw is copied. Thanks all! On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > I use the auto feature at the end. > > On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >> Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you >> are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself when >> you are done editing? >> >> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> I do it at the end. >>> >>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in a >>>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't fix >>>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the main >>>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> All, >>>>> >>>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >>>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>>> >>>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >>>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >>>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >>>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >>>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>>>> formatting will be retained. >>>>> >>>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >>>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >>>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >>>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>>> >>>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >>>>> options. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>>> >>>>> Happy formatting, >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>> Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US >>>>>> braille. >>>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>>>> colors >>>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>>>> included >>>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>>> >>>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I >>>>>> am >>>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>>>>> documents. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >>>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>>> instance, >>>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden >>>>>>> ended >>>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >>>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >>>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read >>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. >>>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to >>>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & >>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 13:42:31 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 09:42:31 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D722C@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1B408D35-C68E-4882-BC80-ABC62DDB3ECC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kelby, To answer your other questions; 1. From Kelby: Do you proof using UEB or US Braille? I'd assume UEB would be better at catching errors. Answer: I don't know UEB. I never bothered to teach myself. So I just use whatever the old form was called. i'm curious how you think UEB would be more helpful though, because if it is, I'm willing to switch! Using Braille, I'm able to make sure my italicization, highlighting, bolding, underlining, etc, are correct using Braille marking. I can also catch little things like extra spaces between words, a missing quotation mark or parenthesis, or if there are too many tabs. You can also do this using Jaws's sound schemes, but you'd need to speak to someone with more knowledge in that area. i'd love to learn more about it as an option too, in case my Braille display ever dies. 2. From Kelby: What about fonts and colors? Answer: I solve most of this problem by turning off merge formatting. I also spot check randomly with insert+f as I'm drafting. Before turning in any document, I will select the text that is supposed to be in the normal font (i.e., not headings and things) and change it to the right font size and style. If the doc is particularly complicated, I will ask a sighted person to scroll through the doc to identify any random font changes before I send it to my superior. But using these methods catches almost all of the errors before a sighted person needs to look. On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Laura, > > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors > spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included > in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of > documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at > bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) > > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am > still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my > documents. > > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Kelby, >> >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >> >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >> >> I hope this is helpful. >> >> Laura >> >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader read >>> as >>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close to >>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>> seems >>> necessary for proofing. >>> >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different >>> kinds >>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a non-breaking >>> space is. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can also >>>> do >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got broken >>>> somewhere along the way. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>> \8221 >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The >>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do this >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>> via >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have >>>>> ms >>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>> manager. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>> > On >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian, >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no >>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>> I've >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>> version >>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a >>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come >>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see >>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> g>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> maur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> maur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> tn% >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40 >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> davi >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> raku >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 817% >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> wolk >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>> >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To >>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To >>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 14:06:43 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 10:06:43 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Laura, When pasting from Westlaw and setting the paste options to merge formatting, do things like italics remain or do you need to redo them? I ask because until recently I had keep source formatting on by default, which as you have explained was causing a lot of problems. On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you > are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself when > you are done editing? > > On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> I do it at the end. >> >> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in a >>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't fix >>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the main >>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> All, >>>> >>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>> >>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>>> formatting will be retained. >>>> >>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>> >>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >>>> options. >>>> >>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>> >>>> Happy formatting, >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>> Laura, >>>>> >>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors >>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included >>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am >>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>>>> documents. >>>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>> >>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>>>>>> seems >>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>> different >>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm >>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to >>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > -- Kelby Carlson From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Thu Oct 3 14:15:06 2019 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 10:15:06 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D722C@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1B408D35-C68E-4882-BC80-ABC62DDB3ECC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001501d579f4$f6b3d760$e41b8620$@nyc.rr.com> Laura and All: UEB reduces ambiguities among Braille symbols that mean different things depending on the context, such as the parenthesis and the gg contraction. For instance, suppose I write in my Braille Sense, "Respondent violated Section 8-107(5)(a)(1) of the Code." When I run it to a text document, all of the parentheses got translated to gg's. I had my assistants all trained to catch them, and I proofread all documents on my desktop before forwarding them to a supervisor. Since I had the luxury of having a fulltime assistant, I did not consider the problem I just described serious enough to warrant training myself to write UEB. Most or all current Braille publications, such as the NFB "Braille Monitor" are in UEB, so I have to read it. But at my age, training myself to write it would be a challenge. In sum, I suggest every Braille user do whatever is most efficient and causes the least amount of stress. Ray -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 9:43 AM To: Kelby Carlson Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination Hi Kelby, To answer your other questions; 1. From Kelby: Do you proof using UEB or US Braille? I'd assume UEB would be better at catching errors. Answer: I don't know UEB. I never bothered to teach myself. So I just use whatever the old form was called. i'm curious how you think UEB would be more helpful though, because if it is, I'm willing to switch! Using Braille, I'm able to make sure my italicization, highlighting, bolding, underlining, etc, are correct using Braille marking. I can also catch little things like extra spaces between words, a missing quotation mark or parenthesis, or if there are too many tabs. You can also do this using Jaws's sound schemes, but you'd need to speak to someone with more knowledge in that area. i'd love to learn more about it as an option too, in case my Braille display ever dies. 2. From Kelby: What about fonts and colors? Answer: I solve most of this problem by turning off merge formatting. I also spot check randomly with insert+f as I'm drafting. Before turning in any document, I will select the text that is supposed to be in the normal font (i.e., not headings and things) and change it to the right font size and style. If the doc is particularly complicated, I will ask a sighted person to scroll through the doc to identify any random font changes before I send it to my superior. But using these methods catches almost all of the errors before a sighted person needs to look. On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Laura, > > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors > spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included > in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of > documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at > bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) > > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am > still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my > documents. > > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Kelby, >> >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >> >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >> >> I hope this is helpful. >> >> Laura >> >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader read >>> as >>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close to >>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>> seems >>> necessary for proofing. >>> >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different >>> kinds >>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a non-breaking >>> space is. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can also >>>> do >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got broken >>>> somewhere along the way. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>> \8221 >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The >>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do this >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>> via >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have >>>>> ms >>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>> manager. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>> > On >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian, >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no >>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>> I've >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>> version >>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a >>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward if >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would presumably >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and >>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In fact, >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And >>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be >>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I >>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it, >>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if >>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to >>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come >>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also happen >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see >>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> g>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> maur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> maur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> tn% >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40 >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> davi >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> raku >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 817% >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> wolk >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>> >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To >>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To >>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw >>>>> mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 15:18:36 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:18:36 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Italics remain. Links do not. best of both worlds! On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Laura, > > When pasting from Westlaw and setting the paste options to merge > formatting, do things like italics remain or do you need to redo them? > I ask because until recently I had keep source formatting on by > default, which as you have explained was causing a lot of problems. > > On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you >> are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself when >> you are done editing? >> >> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> I do it at the end. >>> >>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in a >>>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't fix >>>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the main >>>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> All, >>>>> >>>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >>>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>>> >>>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >>>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >>>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >>>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >>>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>>>> formatting will be retained. >>>>> >>>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >>>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >>>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >>>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>>> >>>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >>>>> options. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>>> >>>>> Happy formatting, >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>> Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US >>>>>> braille. >>>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>>>> colors >>>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>>>> included >>>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>>> >>>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I >>>>>> am >>>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>>>>> documents. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >>>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>>> instance, >>>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden >>>>>>> ended >>>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >>>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >>>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read >>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. >>>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to >>>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & >>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 15:21:40 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:21:40 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D722C@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1B408D35-C68E-4882-BC80-ABC62DDB3ECC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Very interesting! I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Right now, the Braille marking shows a nice line using dots 7-8 under whatever has been changed. Question, how would UEB handle a word with multiple attributes? For instance, let's say a case caption is in italics, but it also needs to be bolded for someone's attention? How would UEB show this? Laura On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Laura, > > The reason i bring up UEB is that it has more detailed format markings > for itallics, bolding, etc that I find easier than regular US braille, > especially for determining where the specific formatting begins and > ends. But obviously different systems work for different people. > > > > On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Hi Kelby, >> >> To answer your other questions; >> >> 1. From Kelby: Do you proof using UEB or US Braille? I'd assume UEB >> would be better at catching errors. >> >> Answer: I don't know UEB. I never bothered to teach myself. So I >> just use whatever the old form was called. i'm curious how you think >> UEB would be more helpful though, because if it is, I'm willing to >> switch! >> >> Using Braille, I'm able to make sure my italicization, highlighting, >> bolding, underlining, etc, are correct using Braille marking. I can >> also catch little things like extra spaces between words, a missing >> quotation mark or parenthesis, or if there are too many tabs. You can >> also do this using Jaws's sound schemes, but you'd need to speak to >> someone with more knowledge in that area. i'd love to learn more >> about it as an option too, in case my Braille display ever dies. >> >> 2. From Kelby: What about fonts and colors? >> >> Answer: I solve most of this problem by turning off merge formatting. >> I also spot check randomly with insert+f as I'm drafting. Before >> turning in any document, I will select the text that is supposed to be >> in the normal font (i.e., not headings and things) and change it to >> the right font size and style. If the doc is particularly >> complicated, I will ask a sighted person to scroll through the doc to >> identify any random font changes before I send it to my superior. But >> using these methods catches almost all of the errors before a sighted >> person needs to look. >> >> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors >>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included >>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>> >>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am >>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>> documents. >>> >>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> Kelby, >>>> >>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>> >>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>> >>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>> read >>>>> as >>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close >>>>> to >>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>>>> seems >>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>> >>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different >>>>> kinds >>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>> non-breaking >>>>> space is. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can >>>>>> also >>>>>> do >>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>> broken >>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The >>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>> via >>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have >>>>>>> ms >>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a >>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward >>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 15:23:33 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:23:33 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Strange--when I just tried this (with merge formatting checked) the italics did not show up. I'm using Word 2016; perhaps the version makes a difference. On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Italics remain. Links do not. best of both worlds! > > On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >> Laura, >> >> When pasting from Westlaw and setting the paste options to merge >> formatting, do things like italics remain or do you need to redo them? >> I ask because until recently I had keep source formatting on by >> default, which as you have explained was causing a lot of problems. >> >> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you >>> are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself when >>> you are done editing? >>> >>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> I do it at the end. >>>> >>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>> Laura, >>>>> >>>>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in a >>>>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>>>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't fix >>>>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the main >>>>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>> All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list >>>>>> responses >>>>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>>>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>>>> >>>>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>>>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >>>>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size >>>>>> 10, >>>>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>>>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >>>>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat >>>>>> most >>>>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>>>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>>>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>>>>> formatting will be retained. >>>>>> >>>>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>>>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>>>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >>>>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>>>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>>>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>>>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to >>>>>> press >>>>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >>>>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>>>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>>>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>>>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >>>>>> options. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>>>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>>>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>>>> >>>>>> Happy formatting, >>>>>> Laura >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US >>>>>>> braille. >>>>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>>>>> colors >>>>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>>>>> included >>>>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>>>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>>>>>> documents. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>>>>>> wrap >>>>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>>>> instance, >>>>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden >>>>>>>> ended >>>>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick >>>>>>>> settings >>>>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read >>>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>>>>>> notify >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> > -- Kelby Carlson From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 15:33:41 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:33:41 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't think so; I've been doing this for years. And I'm using MS 16 now. On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Strange--when I just tried this (with merge formatting checked) the > italics did not show up. I'm using Word 2016; perhaps the version > makes a difference. > > On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Italics remain. Links do not. best of both worlds! >> >> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> When pasting from Westlaw and setting the paste options to merge >>> formatting, do things like italics remain or do you need to redo them? >>> I ask because until recently I had keep source formatting on by >>> default, which as you have explained was causing a lot of problems. >>> >>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you >>>> are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself when >>>> you are done editing? >>>> >>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> I do it at the end. >>>>> >>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>> Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in a >>>>>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>>>>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't fix >>>>>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the main >>>>>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>> All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list >>>>>>> responses >>>>>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>>>>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>>>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>>>>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>>>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size >>>>>>> 10, >>>>>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>>>>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. >>>>>>> Same >>>>>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>>>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat >>>>>>> most >>>>>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>>>>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>>>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>>>>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>>>>>> formatting will be retained. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>>>>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>>>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>>>>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between >>>>>>> documents >>>>>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>>>>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>>>>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>>>>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to >>>>>>> press >>>>>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also >>>>>>> mean >>>>>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>>>>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>>>>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>>>>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> options. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>>>>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>>>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>>>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>>>>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Happy formatting, >>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>>>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>>>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>>>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US >>>>>>>> braille. >>>>>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>>>>>> colors >>>>>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>>>>>> included >>>>>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>>>>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I >>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>>>>>>> documents. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>>>>>>> wrap >>>>>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>>>>> instance, >>>>>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden >>>>>>>>> ended >>>>>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>>>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick >>>>>>>>> settings >>>>>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing >>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen >>>>>>>>>> reader >>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read >>>>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in >>>>>>>>>>>> WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>>>>>>> one). >>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I >>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notify >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Thu Oct 3 15:38:28 2019 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:38:28 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: <8b9c76d2-a1cf-3ba9-dcb4-f45755d24981@yahoo.com> <98FFC933-61C2-4A5B-A48B-EEE1D94D2DC7@yahoo.com> <1BC323EA-8412-46D8-B86D-0DD654655BE5@gmail.com> <023d01d57315$2e02f1b0$8a08d510$@sbgaal.com> <003401d57318$2c6b0c40$854124c0$@nyc.rr.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246CF534@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <93d73cfbfb40451a962c3737d3dfb625@holsteinlaw.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D7096@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <060E30A7-317B-4CF4-ADC1-DDD216098A28@gmail.com> <241E8EC7-ED98-4553-A17E-1ECDCC983461@gmail.com> <5ce935679c4f4c37b688499a50b8bbdd@holsteinlaw.com> <43A3EDBB-33B0-4085-AD32-2D7365F26BFE@gmail.com> <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246D722C@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> <1B408D35-C68E-4882-BC80-ABC62DDB3ECC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001c01d57a00$9c179ec0$d446dc40$@nyc.rr.com> I would have to research that. Ray -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 11:22 AM To: Kelby Carlson Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination Very interesting! I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Right now, the Braille marking shows a nice line using dots 7-8 under whatever has been changed. Question, how would UEB handle a word with multiple attributes? For instance, let's say a case caption is in italics, but it also needs to be bolded for someone's attention? How would UEB show this? Laura On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Laura, > > The reason i bring up UEB is that it has more detailed format markings > for itallics, bolding, etc that I find easier than regular US braille, > especially for determining where the specific formatting begins and > ends. But obviously different systems work for different people. > > > > On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Hi Kelby, >> >> To answer your other questions; >> >> 1. From Kelby: Do you proof using UEB or US Braille? I'd assume UEB >> would be better at catching errors. >> >> Answer: I don't know UEB. I never bothered to teach myself. So I >> just use whatever the old form was called. i'm curious how you think >> UEB would be more helpful though, because if it is, I'm willing to >> switch! >> >> Using Braille, I'm able to make sure my italicization, highlighting, >> bolding, underlining, etc, are correct using Braille marking. I can >> also catch little things like extra spaces between words, a missing >> quotation mark or parenthesis, or if there are too many tabs. You can >> also do this using Jaws's sound schemes, but you'd need to speak to >> someone with more knowledge in that area. i'd love to learn more >> about it as an option too, in case my Braille display ever dies. >> >> 2. From Kelby: What about fonts and colors? >> >> Answer: I solve most of this problem by turning off merge formatting. >> I also spot check randomly with insert+f as I'm drafting. Before >> turning in any document, I will select the text that is supposed to be >> in the normal font (i.e., not headings and things) and change it to >> the right font size and style. If the doc is particularly >> complicated, I will ask a sighted person to scroll through the doc to >> identify any random font changes before I send it to my superior. But >> using these methods catches almost all of the errors before a sighted >> person needs to look. >> >> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors >>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included >>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>> >>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am >>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>> documents. >>> >>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> Kelby, >>>> >>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>> >>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>> >>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>> read >>>>> as >>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close >>>>> to >>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>>>> seems >>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>> >>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different >>>>> kinds >>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>> non-breaking >>>>> space is. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can >>>>>> also >>>>>> do >>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>> broken >>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The >>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>> via >>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have >>>>>>> ms >>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a >>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have >>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward >>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 15:42:00 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:42:00 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm sorry, Kelby. I just retried this, and you're right, the italics do get stripped. I don't copy from Westlaw much these days. So this must have changed somewhere along the way. On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > I don't think so; I've been doing this for years. And I'm using MS 16 now. > > On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >> Strange--when I just tried this (with merge formatting checked) the >> italics did not show up. I'm using Word 2016; perhaps the version >> makes a difference. >> >> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> Italics remain. Links do not. best of both worlds! >>> >>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> When pasting from Westlaw and setting the paste options to merge >>>> formatting, do things like italics remain or do you need to redo them? >>>> I ask because until recently I had keep source formatting on by >>>> default, which as you have explained was causing a lot of problems. >>>> >>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you >>>>> are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself when >>>>> you are done editing? >>>>> >>>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>> I do it at the end. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>>>>>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't fix >>>>>>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the >>>>>>> main >>>>>>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list >>>>>>>> responses >>>>>>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>>>>>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>>>>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from >>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>>>>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size >>>>>>>> 10, >>>>>>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>>>>>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. >>>>>>>> Same >>>>>>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>>>>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat >>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>>>>>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>>>>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>>>>>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>>>>>>> formatting will be retained. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel >>>>>>>> comfortable >>>>>>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>>>>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between >>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>>>>>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>>>>>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to >>>>>>>> press >>>>>>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also >>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>>>>>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>>>>>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> options. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should >>>>>>>> **immediately** >>>>>>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>>>>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>>>>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>>>>>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Happy formatting, >>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>>>>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>>>>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>>>>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US >>>>>>>>> braille. >>>>>>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>>>>>>> colors >>>>>>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>>>>>>> included >>>>>>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>>>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>>>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> documents. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>>>>>>>> wrap >>>>>>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>>>>>> instance, >>>>>>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden >>>>>>>>>> ended >>>>>>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>>>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the >>>>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>>>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick >>>>>>>>>> settings >>>>>>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing >>>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen >>>>>>>>>>> reader >>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read >>>>>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of >>>>>>>>>>> distracting >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you >>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in >>>>>>>>>>>>> WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>>>>>>>> one). >>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I >>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for >>>>>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>> | >>>>>>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>>>>>>>> dictionary >>>>>>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notify >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> > From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 15:56:10 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:56:10 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Laura, I discovered that if you paste from one Word document to another, things like italics are kept but the styles remain the same. If you copy something from a webpage, however, everything is stripped even with merge formatting turned on. The only way to retain things like italics is to check "keep source formatting" which, as had been extensively discussed, causes huge problems. On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > I'm sorry, Kelby. I just retried this, and you're right, the italics > do get stripped. I don't copy from Westlaw much these days. So this > must have changed somewhere along the way. > > On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> I don't think so; I've been doing this for years. And I'm using MS 16 >> now. >> >> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>> Strange--when I just tried this (with merge formatting checked) the >>> italics did not show up. I'm using Word 2016; perhaps the version >>> makes a difference. >>> >>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> Italics remain. Links do not. best of both worlds! >>>> >>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>> Laura, >>>>> >>>>> When pasting from Westlaw and setting the paste options to merge >>>>> formatting, do things like italics remain or do you need to redo them? >>>>> I ask because until recently I had keep source formatting on by >>>>> default, which as you have explained was causing a lot of problems. >>>>> >>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you >>>>>> are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself >>>>>> when >>>>>> you are done editing? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>> I do it at the end. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>>>>>>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't >>>>>>>> fix >>>>>>>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the >>>>>>>> main >>>>>>>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list >>>>>>>>> responses >>>>>>>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>>>>>>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>>>>>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from >>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>>>>>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size >>>>>>>>> 10, >>>>>>>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>>>>>>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. >>>>>>>>> Same >>>>>>>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>>>>>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat >>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>>>>>>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>>>>>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>>>>>>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>>>>>>>> formatting will be retained. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel >>>>>>>>> comfortable >>>>>>>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>>>>>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between >>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>>>>>>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>>>>>>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to >>>>>>>>> press >>>>>>>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also >>>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using >>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> options. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should >>>>>>>>> **immediately** >>>>>>>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>>>>>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>>>>>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Happy formatting, >>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>>>>>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In >>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US >>>>>>>>>> braille. >>>>>>>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>>>>>>>> colors >>>>>>>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>>>>>>>> included >>>>>>>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>>>>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>>>>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in >>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> documents. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>>>>>>>>> wrap >>>>>>>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>>>>>>> instance, >>>>>>>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden >>>>>>>>>>> ended >>>>>>>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>>>>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the >>>>>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>>>>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick >>>>>>>>>>> settings >>>>>>>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>>>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing >>>>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen >>>>>>>>>>>> reader >>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read >>>>>>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of >>>>>>>>>>>> distracting >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you >>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also >>>>>>>>>>>>> got >>>>>>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>> | >>>>>>>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictionary >>>>>>>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notify >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >> > -- Kelby Carlson From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 16:29:33 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 12:29:33 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] seeking a speeker Message-ID: <571B4577-3FD8-4EFF-94B0-AB932C5490B4@gmail.com> Hello blind law subscribers, I write today as second VP of the New York devision of Parents of Blind Children. We are seeking an individual knowledgeable in the legal redress that a parent has if other means of persuasion prove ineffective in promoting compliance on the part of a school district in relation to IEP’s. We are hoping to have this individual present during our session this year at the New York state convention. The event is taking place on Friday Oct, 18 from 2pm to 5pm. We hope our legal speaker could participate from roughly , 4:15 to 4:45pm. If anyone reading has knowledge in this area and coincidentally has time to offer that day, please contact me by phone at , 716-563-9882, or email, maurakutnyak at gmail.com . Lest I forget, We are, of course, assuming that participation would take place by phone or FaceTime given the likelihood that the participant will not be in Buffalo where the convention is taking place. My thanks for the time you took to read. Warmly, Maura From laura.wolk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 16:58:11 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 12:58:11 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for this, Kelby. Yep, I'd much rather re-add italics than deal with the font issues. On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Laura, > > I discovered that if you paste from one Word document to another, > things like italics are kept but the styles remain the same. If you > copy something from a webpage, however, everything is stripped even > with merge formatting turned on. The only way to retain things like > italics is to check "keep source formatting" which, as had been > extensively discussed, causes huge problems. > > > > On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> I'm sorry, Kelby. I just retried this, and you're right, the italics >> do get stripped. I don't copy from Westlaw much these days. So this >> must have changed somewhere along the way. >> >> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> I don't think so; I've been doing this for years. And I'm using MS 16 >>> now. >>> >>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>> Strange--when I just tried this (with merge formatting checked) the >>>> italics did not show up. I'm using Word 2016; perhaps the version >>>> makes a difference. >>>> >>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> Italics remain. Links do not. best of both worlds! >>>>> >>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>> Laura, >>>>>> >>>>>> When pasting from Westlaw and setting the paste options to merge >>>>>> formatting, do things like italics remain or do you need to redo >>>>>> them? >>>>>> I ask because until recently I had keep source formatting on by >>>>>> default, which as you have explained was causing a lot of problems. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>> Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you >>>>>>> are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> you are done editing? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>> I do it at the end. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>>>>>>>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't >>>>>>>>> fix >>>>>>>>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the >>>>>>>>> main >>>>>>>>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list >>>>>>>>>> responses >>>>>>>>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone >>>>>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>>>>>>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from >>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>>>>>>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're >>>>>>>>>> fiile >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri >>>>>>>>>> size >>>>>>>>>> 10, >>>>>>>>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>>>>>>>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. >>>>>>>>>> Same >>>>>>>>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>>>>>>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat >>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>>>>>>>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>>>>>>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>>>>>>>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any >>>>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>>>> formatting will be retained. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel >>>>>>>>>> comfortable >>>>>>>>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>>>>>>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between >>>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>>>>>>>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>>>>>>>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to >>>>>>>>>> press >>>>>>>>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also >>>>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the >>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using >>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own >>>>>>>>>> set >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> options. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should >>>>>>>>>> **immediately** >>>>>>>>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>>>>>>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>>>>>>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Happy formatting, >>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In >>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US >>>>>>>>>>> braille. >>>>>>>>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>>>>>>>>> colors >>>>>>>>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>>>>>>>>> included >>>>>>>>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>>>>>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>>>>>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in >>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> documents. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>>>>>>>>>> wrap >>>>>>>>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>>>>>>>> instance, >>>>>>>>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason >>>>>>>>>>>> burden >>>>>>>>>>>> ended >>>>>>>>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used >>>>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the >>>>>>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an >>>>>>>>>>>> ellipsis. >>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>>>>>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read >>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick >>>>>>>>>>>> settings >>>>>>>>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>>>>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing >>>>>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to >>>>>>>>>>>> some, >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation >>>>>>>>>>>> marks. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen >>>>>>>>>>>>> reader >>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read >>>>>>>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>> distracting >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>>>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>>>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also >>>>>>>>>>>>>> got >>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \8220 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictionary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notify >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "equitable." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 17:13:39 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 13:13:39 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Further update: I am using NVDA rather than JAWS. The reason this happens with NVDA is because, when selecting text on a web page with NVDA, you are actually not selecting directly from the page but from a "virtual buffer" the screen reader creates to make the page more accessible (e.g. not having a bunch of links on one line, etc). This means it is not possible to select formatted text from a web page unless you pass the key commands through the screen reader and use them in the regular Windows fashion (there is a JAWS command for this, but I can't remember it). I suspect this occurs with JAWS for the same or similar reason, but you would need to check with VFO to be sure. On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > Thanks for this, Kelby. Yep, I'd much rather re-add italics than deal > with the font issues. > > On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >> Laura, >> >> I discovered that if you paste from one Word document to another, >> things like italics are kept but the styles remain the same. If you >> copy something from a webpage, however, everything is stripped even >> with merge formatting turned on. The only way to retain things like >> italics is to check "keep source formatting" which, as had been >> extensively discussed, causes huge problems. >> >> >> >> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> I'm sorry, Kelby. I just retried this, and you're right, the italics >>> do get stripped. I don't copy from Westlaw much these days. So this >>> must have changed somewhere along the way. >>> >>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> I don't think so; I've been doing this for years. And I'm using MS 16 >>>> now. >>>> >>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>> Strange--when I just tried this (with merge formatting checked) the >>>>> italics did not show up. I'm using Word 2016; perhaps the version >>>>> makes a difference. >>>>> >>>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>> Italics remain. Links do not. best of both worlds! >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When pasting from Westlaw and setting the paste options to merge >>>>>>> formatting, do things like italics remain or do you need to redo >>>>>>> them? >>>>>>> I ask because until recently I had keep source formatting on by >>>>>>> default, which as you have explained was causing a lot of problems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>> Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you >>>>>>>> are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>> you are done editing? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>> I do it at the end. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>>>>>>>>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't >>>>>>>>>> fix >>>>>>>>>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the >>>>>>>>>> main >>>>>>>>>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list >>>>>>>>>>> responses >>>>>>>>>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone >>>>>>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>>>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>>>>>>>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from >>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>>>>>>>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're >>>>>>>>>>> fiile >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri >>>>>>>>>>> size >>>>>>>>>>> 10, >>>>>>>>>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. >>>>>>>>>>> Same >>>>>>>>>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>>>>>>>>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I >>>>>>>>>>> repeat >>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It >>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>>>>>>>>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control >>>>>>>>>>> immediately >>>>>>>>>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any >>>>>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>>>>> formatting will be retained. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel >>>>>>>>>>> comfortable >>>>>>>>>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>>>>>>>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find >>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between >>>>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and >>>>>>>>>>> right- >>>>>>>>>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to >>>>>>>>>>> press >>>>>>>>>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also >>>>>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>>>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the >>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using >>>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in >>>>>>>>>>> outlook >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own >>>>>>>>>>> set >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> options. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should >>>>>>>>>>> **immediately** >>>>>>>>>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>>>>>>>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>>>>>>>>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Happy formatting, >>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at >>>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US >>>>>>>>>>>> braille. >>>>>>>>>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>>>>>>>>>> colors >>>>>>>>>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>>>>>>>>>> included >>>>>>>>>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain >>>>>>>>>>>> sections >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>>>>>>>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>>>>>>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> documents. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that >>>>>>>>>>>>> word >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrap >>>>>>>>>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>>>>>>>>> instance, >>>>>>>>>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason >>>>>>>>>>>>> burden >>>>>>>>>>>>> ended >>>>>>>>>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used >>>>>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the >>>>>>>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an >>>>>>>>>>>>> ellipsis. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read >>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick >>>>>>>>>>>>> settings >>>>>>>>>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>>>>>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing >>>>>>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to >>>>>>>>>>>>> some, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation >>>>>>>>>>>>> marks. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reader >>>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> distracting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \8220 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictionary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notify >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "equitable." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8216 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Notepad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lawyers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thrive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> > -- Kelby Carlson From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 18:51:31 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (Kelby Carlson) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 14:51:31 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Additionally, I just figured out that NVDA does not support formatting while using a Braille display. I don't proofread with Braille much, but I probably should, so perhaps I'll have to switch back to JAWS. On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > Further update: I am using NVDA rather than JAWS. The reason this > happens with NVDA is because, when selecting text on a web page with > NVDA, you are actually not selecting directly from the page but from a > "virtual buffer" the screen reader creates to make the page more > accessible (e.g. not having a bunch of links on one line, etc). This > means it is not possible to select formatted text from a web page > unless you pass the key commands through the screen reader and use > them in the regular Windows fashion (there is a JAWS command for this, > but I can't remember it). I suspect this occurs with JAWS for the same > or similar reason, but you would need to check with VFO to be sure. > > On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >> Thanks for this, Kelby. Yep, I'd much rather re-add italics than deal >> with the font issues. >> >> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> I discovered that if you paste from one Word document to another, >>> things like italics are kept but the styles remain the same. If you >>> copy something from a webpage, however, everything is stripped even >>> with merge formatting turned on. The only way to retain things like >>> italics is to check "keep source formatting" which, as had been >>> extensively discussed, causes huge problems. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> I'm sorry, Kelby. I just retried this, and you're right, the italics >>>> do get stripped. I don't copy from Westlaw much these days. So this >>>> must have changed somewhere along the way. >>>> >>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> I don't think so; I've been doing this for years. And I'm using MS 16 >>>>> now. >>>>> >>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>> Strange--when I just tried this (with merge formatting checked) the >>>>>> italics did not show up. I'm using Word 2016; perhaps the version >>>>>> makes a difference. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>> Italics remain. Links do not. best of both worlds! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When pasting from Westlaw and setting the paste options to merge >>>>>>>> formatting, do things like italics remain or do you need to redo >>>>>>>> them? >>>>>>>> I ask because until recently I had keep source formatting on by >>>>>>>> default, which as you have explained was causing a lot of problems. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself >>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>> you are done editing? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I do it at the end. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >>>>>>>>>>> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't >>>>>>>>>>> fix >>>>>>>>>>> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the >>>>>>>>>>> main >>>>>>>>>>> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list >>>>>>>>>>>> responses >>>>>>>>>>>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone >>>>>>>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>>>>>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>>>>>>>>>>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from >>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>>>>>>>>>>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're >>>>>>>>>>>> fiile >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri >>>>>>>>>>>> size >>>>>>>>>>>> 10, >>>>>>>>>>>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. >>>>>>>>>>>> Same >>>>>>>>>>>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes >>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I >>>>>>>>>>>> repeat >>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It >>>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control >>>>>>>>>>>> immediately >>>>>>>>>>>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any >>>>>>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>>>>>> formatting will be retained. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel >>>>>>>>>>>> comfortable >>>>>>>>>>>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>>>>>>>>>>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to >>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between >>>>>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>>>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto >>>>>>>>>>>> bullets >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and >>>>>>>>>>>> right- >>>>>>>>>>>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> press >>>>>>>>>>>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will >>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>> mean >>>>>>>>>>>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the >>>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using >>>>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>>> very smart "auto" features. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in >>>>>>>>>>>> outlook >>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own >>>>>>>>>>>> set >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> options. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should >>>>>>>>>>>> **immediately** >>>>>>>>>>>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>>>>>>>>>>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Happy formatting, >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at >>>>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? >>>>>>>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US >>>>>>>>>>>>> braille. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> colors >>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>>>>>>>>>>> included >>>>>>>>>>>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain >>>>>>>>>>>>> sections >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>>>>>>>>>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> documents. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> word >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrap >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instance, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>> burden >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ended >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dash >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>>>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ellipsis. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick >>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> marks. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reader >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distracting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \8220 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> San >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictionary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notify >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "equitable." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8216 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Notepad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assistants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> errors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lawyers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alleviate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thrive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kelby Carlson >>> >> > > > -- > Kelby Carlson > -- Kelby Carlson From tim at timeldermusic.com Thu Oct 3 22:16:32 2019 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (tim at timeldermusic.com) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 15:16:32 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013d01d57a38$36703c20$a350b460$@timeldermusic.com> Laura, There is also a way to pick a paste function without formatting by using key command control shift v and selecting your choice from the pop-up. I almost always use this to ensure what I paste adopts the currently active formatting. This may not work in certain email drafting modes. -----Original Message----- From: Kelby Carlson Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 6:26 AM To: Laura Wolk Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination Do you mean that you use words automatic numbering feature when you are done editing a list or that you re-number everything yourself when you are done editing? On 10/3/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > I do it at the end. > > On 10/3/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >> Laura, >> >> What do you do when you have to re-number a very long list (say, in a >> civil complaint) in Word if you have to add something and the >> numbering is off? Often times the auto-numbering in Word doesn't fix >> this, but it has been a lifesaver a couple of times. This is the main >> reason I have auto-numbering turned on. >> >> >> >> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>> All, >>> >>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>> >>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>> formatting will be retained. >>> >>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>> very smart "auto" features. >>> >>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >>> options. >>> >>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>> >>> Happy formatting, >>> Laura >>> >>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors >>>> spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included >>>> in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of >>>> documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at >>>> bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>> >>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am >>>> still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my >>>> documents. >>>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> Kelby, >>>>> >>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap >>>>> will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for instance, >>>>> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended >>>>> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a >>>>> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped. A >>>>> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between >>>>> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two >>>>> together. It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis. This >>>>> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of >>>>> course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out >>>>> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings >>>>> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not >>>>> functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>> >>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, but >>>>> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>> >>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>>> read >>>>>> as >>>>>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close >>>>>> to >>>>>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it >>>>>> seems >>>>>> necessary for proofing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>> different >>>>>> kinds >>>>>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a >>>>>> non-breaking >>>>>> space is. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>> broken >>>>>>> somewhere along the way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and >>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By >>>>>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you. I’m >>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] >>>>>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San >>>>>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>> Wolk >>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary >>>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law >>>>>>>>> By The State Bar of California >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest >>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> html form. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it >>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to >>>>>>>>>>> port >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any >>>>>>>>>>> documents, >>>>>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, >>>>>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its >>>>>>>>>>> attachments >>>>>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>> LLP. >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> mean? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law >>>>>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart >>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward >>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> partner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3c%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3eBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jtfe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tter% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> /jtf >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etter%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3cB R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cht >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3eR%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kutny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutny%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ak%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> maur >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akutn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> tn% >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> 3cBR%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yak%40gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3cBR >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e><%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3c%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3gre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> y%40y >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40y%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 13gr >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ey%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %40 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>><%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> R%3e>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ndLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> cBR% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ndlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9193% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> davi >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s9193%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> BR%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p:/nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ee%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> akut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nyak% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> raku >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tnyak%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> et.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjdav >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is91 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 93%40 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> vis9 >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/li >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%25%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 17%4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anho817%254> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 817% >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 40gmai%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>R%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/nfbnet.org/mailman/lis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>tinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>e%3e%3e%3ee%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e>get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.w >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olk%>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ura.wolk%25> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> wolk >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gma%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> bgaa%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> l.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40n >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %40n%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> yc.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %40l%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> oeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> k%4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> lk%254%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> 0gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> e%3e%3e%3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> lier%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> 3e> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson% >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 40g >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> %40g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40h >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> olsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40g >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw>>>>>>>>>> wolk%40gmail.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3cBR%3e__________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> _____________________%3cBR%3eBlindLaw> mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> com _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gma >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> il.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/brianunitt%40holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kelby Carlson >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kelby Carlson >> > -- Kelby Carlson From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 06:44:47 2019 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 07:44:47 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Relativity with JAWS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would also be very interested in any information regarding this! Kind regards Ger On 9/27/19, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi Y'all, > > I remember some talk a few years ago about using Relativity with JAWS. > Has anyone got more recent information on whether it's in any way > accessible? > > Thanks, > Chris > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > Attorney at Law > KBA #97351 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From marshall at blindlawyers.org Fri Oct 4 08:51:11 2019 From: marshall at blindlawyers.org (Scott Marshall) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 08:51:11 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Laura and everyone: Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, but it is on my to-do list for today for sure. Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem. The days of being the only author on a document are over. Thanks again. Scott -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Will Burley via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Will Burley Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination This conversation has been very welcomed! On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use > paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the > keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where > you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, > just press the letters consecutively ) > > I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into > which it is pasted. > > Is this your experience. > > There are also two keystrokes that I think help. > If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the > text is removed. > There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I > don't remember it right now. > > Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk > via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM > To: Kelby Carlson > Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> > Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: > Discrimination > > **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** > > All, > > I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses > like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets > this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of > blindness-only formatting errors. > > By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another > document, program, or website, Word will retain the original > formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is > in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, > you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and > anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same > goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from > pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most > often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only > causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to > preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately > after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special > formatting will be retained. > > With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable > typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word > options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. > Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents > and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to > merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and > auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- > indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press > tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean > that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way > into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its > very smart "auto" features. > > Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as > well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of > options. > > Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** > see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, > though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or > computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and > the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. > > Happy formatting, > Laura > > On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: > > Laura, > > > > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a > > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be > > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my > > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. > > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and > > colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is > > included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain > > sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty > > good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) > > > > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely > > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I > > am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in > > my documents. > > > > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: > >> Kelby, > >> > >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word > >> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for > >> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason > >> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace > >> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be > >> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily > >> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to > >> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an > >> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you > >> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed > >> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating > >> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is > >> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. > >> > >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have > >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, > >> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, > >> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. > >> > >> I hope this is helpful. > >> > >> Laura > >> > >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader > >>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to > >>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind > >>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing. > >>> > >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the > >>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no > >>> idea what a non-breaking space is. > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you > >>>> can > also > >>>> do > >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got > >>>> broken somewhere along the way. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 > >>>>> and > >>>>> \8221 > >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. > >>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which > >>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to > >>>>> make sure I do > this > >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you > . > I’m > >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. > >>>>> > >>>>> Angie > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US > >>>>> Attorney at Law > >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP > >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 > >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | > >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com > >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | > >>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | > >>>>> www.loeb.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura > >>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM > >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I > >>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the > >>>>> dictionary manager. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > >>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Laura, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brian > >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt > >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of > >>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional > >>>>>> Corporation > >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 > >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 > >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 > >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com > >>>>>> mailto: > brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>> >>>>>> >> > On > >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM > >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brian, > >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that > >>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. > >>>>>> I've > >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the > >>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > >>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and > >>>>>>> viewed in html form. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes > >>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and > >>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would > >>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office > >>>>>>>> products. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This > >>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous > >>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential > >>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are > not > >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for > >>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby > >>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > >>>>>>>> any of the information contained > in > >>>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you > >>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately > >>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission > >>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. > >>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > >>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> rg>> > >>>>>>>> On > >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM > >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of > >>>>>>>> what you mean? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Brian > >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt > >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of > >>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation > >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 > >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 > >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 > >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >mailto: > brianunitt at holsteinlaw > >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> org > rg > >>> > >>>>>>>>> On > >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM > >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson > >>>>>>>>> kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a > >>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just > >>>>>>>>> quote. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going > >>>>>>>>>> forward > if > >>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier > >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your > >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been > >>>>>>>>>>> to: > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would > presumably > >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate > >>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing > >>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Ger > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper > >>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the > >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," > >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In > fact, > >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're > >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why > >>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds... > >>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to > >>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to > >>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take > >>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound > >>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting. > >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed > >>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count > >>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in > >>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was > >>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything. > >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about > >>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really > >>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd > >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>>>>>> laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same > >>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart > >>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and > 8217. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have > >>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This > >>>>>>>>>>>>> can also > happen > >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can > >>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws > >>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these > symbols. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F > >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter “C,” > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards “C,” > so > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me > it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >< > http://www.loeb.com/>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/ > www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission > is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading > or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or > >>>>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or > >>>>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> g >>>>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindla > >>>>> %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com%3c > >>>>> 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you > explain. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com > %3cm .com > %3cm> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about > the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange." > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates > and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law > school > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at this point > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some > of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3 > e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali > >>>>> >>>>> R%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> sm-C > >>>>>>>> < > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C%0b>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a > legal > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud > of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of > a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This > is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I > am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t want to be limited to practice law in an area > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don’t have time to perfect this dispatch. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ > observation > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a > job > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my > schooling. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of > school > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to > make > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus > for > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>> %20%25%0b>>>> > >>>>> %20%25%0b>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will > soon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also > don't > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? > setting, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my > naive > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho > Steele-Louchart > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg > >>>>> %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on > or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g > to> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e > %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt > >>>>> p:/ > nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 > e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>> info for > >>>>> BlindLaw: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e > %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> g/cj > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org : > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3 > e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e> > >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e> > >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/ > nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o > -- Will Burley Mobile: (713) 614-3322 Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com “I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display it.” –Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall%40blindlawyers.org From lakeria2009 at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 09:03:47 2019 From: lakeria2009 at gmail.com (Lakeria Taylor) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 04:03:47 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75068EC9-7D47-4752-9558-8F5352C6434D@gmail.com> Hi all, Control alt v gives you paste special. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 4, 2019, at 3:51 AM, Scott Marshall via BlindLaw wrote: > > Laura and everyone: > Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, but it is on my to-do list for today for sure. > Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem. > The days of being the only author on a document are over. > Thanks again. > Scott > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Will Burley via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Will Burley > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination > > This conversation has been very welcomed! > >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> >> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use >> paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the >> keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where >> you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, >> just press the letters consecutively ) >> >> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into >> which it is pasted. >> >> Is this your experience. >> >> There are also two keystrokes that I think help. >> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the >> text is removed. >> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I >> don't remember it right now. >> >> Randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM >> To: Kelby Carlson >> Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List < >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> >> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: >> Discrimination >> >> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** >> >> All, >> >> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >> blindness-only formatting errors. >> >> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >> formatting will be retained. >> >> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >> very smart "auto" features. >> >> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >> options. >> >> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >> >> Happy formatting, >> Laura >> >>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>> colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>> included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain >>> sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty >>> good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>> >>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I >>> am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in >>> my documents. >>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> Kelby, >>>> >>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason >>>> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace >>>> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be >>>> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily >>>> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to >>>> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an >>>> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you >>>> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed >>>> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating >>>> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is >>>> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>> >>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, >>>> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>> >>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to >>>>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind >>>>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing. >>>>> >>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no >>>>> idea what a non-breaking space is. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you >>>>>> can >> also >>>>>> do >>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>> broken somewhere along the way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to >>>>>>> make sure I do >> this >>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you >> . >> I’m >>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>> dictionary manager. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of >>>>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional >>>>>>>> Corporation >>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> mailto: >> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>> viewed in html form. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes >>>>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and >>>>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would >>>>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office >>>>>>>>>> products. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are >> not >>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby >>>>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >>>>>>>>>> any of the information contained >> in >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission >>>>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> rg>> >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>> what you mean? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of >>>>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >mailto: >> brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> org >> > rg >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>> > kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just >>>>>>>>>>> quote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>> forward >> if >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>> to: >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing >>>>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and >> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can also >> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards “C,” >> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me >> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://www.loeb.com/>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/ >> www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading >> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindla >>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > sbg at sbgaal.com%3c >>>>>>> > 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >> %3cm> .com >> %3cm> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe >> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates >> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at this point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some >> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3 >> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali >>>>>>> >>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C%0b>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a >> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of >> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This >> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I >> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t want to be limited to practice law in an area >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don’t have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a >> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my >> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of >> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to >> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> > %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>> > %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will >> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities >> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >> >>>>>> > %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on >> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >> > to> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e >> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>> p:/ >> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e >> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3 >> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/ >> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >> > -- > Will Burley > Mobile: (713) 614-3322 > Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com > > “I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display it.” –Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall%40blindlawyers.org > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lakeria2009%40gmail.com From ETroutman at BrooksPierce.com Fri Oct 4 13:03:15 2019 From: ETroutman at BrooksPierce.com (Elizabeth Troutman) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 13:03:15 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Relativity with JAWS Message-ID: I find Relativity itself to be pretty clunky and difficult. But, after the documents are loaded, I can have a paralegal generate an excel file with the documents OCR'd and linked into the excel file. The excel contains any labels/tagging that has been done - e.g. for email, it would have "to" in one column, "from" in another column, etc. etc. I can then type in tags and attorney notes. The excel file then gets run back through Relativity and the tags/notes appear. So, then we can spit out a set of responsive documents for example. Or, if I've tagged them for somebody's deposition, spit out just those documents, with an accompanying excel file, so I can continue to annotate. If we're working firm-wide on a doc review, I can have it spit out just my "batches" and do the tagging in accordance with whatever the guidelines are, and when it gets run back through, it looks like everyone else's batches do. Obviously, it would be better if we didn't have to do this whole process, but it's a work-around that has allowed me to do e-discovery. If you want more help with this, feel free to call - I can also put you in touch with our litigation support person who could explain it in computer jargon. Elizabeth Troutman [cid:image001.jpg at 01D57A92.8DA4F670] t: 336.271.3138 f: 336.232.9138 2000 Renaissance Plaza 230 North Elm Street Greensboro, NC 27401 P.O. Box 26000 (27420) From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 8:00 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: BlindLaw Digest, Vol 185, Issue 12 Send BlindLaw mailing list submissions to blindlaw at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of BlindLaw digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Relativity with JAWS (Gerard Sadlier) 2. Re: Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination (Scott Marshall) 3. Re: Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination (Lakeria Taylor) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 07:44:47 +0100 From: Gerard Sadlier > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: "Stewart, Christopher K" > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Relativity with JAWS Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I would also be very interested in any information regarding this! Kind regards Ger On 9/27/19, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw > wrote: > Hi Y'all, > > I remember some talk a few years ago about using Relativity with JAWS. > Has anyone got more recent information on whether it's in any way > accessible? > > Thanks, > Chris > > > -- > Chris K. Stewart > Attorney at Law > KBA #97351 > Ph: > (502)457-1757 > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier at gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 08:51:11 +0000 From: Scott Marshall > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Laura and everyone: Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, but it is on my to-do list for today for sure. Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem. The days of being the only author on a document are over. Thanks again. Scott -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Will Burley via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Will Burley > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination This conversation has been very welcomed! On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use > paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the > keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where > you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, > just press the letters consecutively ) > > I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into > which it is pasted. > > Is this your experience. > > There are also two keystrokes that I think help. > If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the > text is removed. > There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I > don't remember it right now. > > Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura Wolk > via BlindLaw > Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM > To: Kelby Carlson > > Cc: Laura Wolk >; Blind Law Mailing List < > blindlaw at nfbnet.org> > Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: > Discrimination > > **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER ? USE CAUTION** > > All, > > I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses > like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets > this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of > blindness-only formatting errors. > > By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another > document, program, or website, Word will retain the original > formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is > in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, > you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and > anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same > goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from > pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most > often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only > causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to > preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately > after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special > formatting will be retained. > > With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable > typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word > options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. > Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents > and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to > merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and > auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- > indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press > tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean > that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way > into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its > very smart "auto" features. > > Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as > well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of > options. > > Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** > see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, > though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or > computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and > the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. > > Happy formatting, > Laura > > On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson > wrote: > > Laura, > > > > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a > > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be > > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my > > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. > > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and > > colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is > > included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain > > sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty > > good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) > > > > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely > > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I > > am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in > > my documents. > > > > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: > >> Kelby, > >> > >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word > >> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for > >> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason > >> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace > >> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be > >> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily > >> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to > >> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an > >> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you > >> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed > >> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating > >> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is > >> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. > >> > >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have > >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, > >> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, > >> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. > >> > >> I hope this is helpful. > >> > >> Laura > >> > >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw > wrote: > >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader > >>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to > >>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind > >>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing. > >>> > >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the > >>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no > >>> idea what a non-breaking space is. > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>> > > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Great I?m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you > >>>> can > also > >>>> do > >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got > >>>> broken somewhere along the way. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 > >>>>> and > >>>>> \8221 > >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. > >>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which > >>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to > >>>>> make sure I do > this > >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you > >. > I?m > >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. > >>>>> > >>>>> Angie > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US > >>>>> Attorney at Law > >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]> Loeb and Loeb LLP > >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 > >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | > >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com > >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | > >>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | > >>>>> www.loeb.com> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura > >>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM > >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > > >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I > >>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the > >>>>> dictionary manager. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > >>>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Laura, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brian > >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt > >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of > >>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional > >>>>>> Corporation > >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 > >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 > >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 > >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 > >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com > >>>>>> >>>>mailto: > brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> > On > >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM > >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brian, > >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that > >>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. > >>>>>> I've > >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the > >>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw > >>>>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and > >>>>>>> viewed in html form. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>> >> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes > >>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and > >>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would > >>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office > >>>>>>>> products. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This > >>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous > >>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential > >>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are > not > >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for > >>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby > >>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > >>>>>>>> any of the information contained > in > >>>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you > >>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately > >>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission > >>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. > >>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > >>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> rg>> > >>>>>>>> On > >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM > >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of > >>>>>>>> what you mean? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Brian > >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt > >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of > >>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt > >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation > >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 > >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 > >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 > >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>mailto: > brianunitt at holsteinlaw > >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> org > > rg > >>> > >>>>>>>>> On > >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM > >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson > >>>>>>>>> > kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a > >>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just > >>>>>>>>> quote. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going > >>>>>>>>>> forward > if > >>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your > >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been > >>>>>>>>>>> to: > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would > presumably > >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate > >>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing > >>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Ger > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper > >>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the > >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," > >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In > fact, > >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're > >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why > >>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds... > >>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to > >>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to > >>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take > >>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound > >>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting. > >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed > >>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count > >>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in > >>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was > >>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything. > >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about > >>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really > >>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd > >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same > >>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart > >>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and > 8217. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have > >>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This > >>>>>>>>>>>>> can also > happen > >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can > >>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws > >>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these > symbols. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F > >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter ?C,? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards ?C,? > so > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don?t see that very often. I don?t think > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me > it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m wrong. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP]> Loeb and Loeb LLP > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >< > http://www.loeb.com/>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/ > www.loeb.com/>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission > is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading > or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or > >>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com: > rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or > >>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> g> >>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindla > >>>>> > %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > sbg at sbgaal.com%3c > >>>>> > 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you > explain. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com > %3cm> .com > %3cm> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about > the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange." > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org: > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates > and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org: > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law > school > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I?m far too bitter at this point > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some > of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE?s, and publishing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3 > e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali > >>>>> > >>>>> R%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> sm-C > >>>>>>>> < > https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org: > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a > legal > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud > of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it?s worth. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of > a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This > is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I?m hearing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I > am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don?t want to be silo > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don?t want to be limited to practice law in an area > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t have time to perfect this dispatch. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James? point is spot on. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James? > observation > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers? concerns about the candidates? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn?t my history of success in the workplace > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a > job > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can?t read > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my > schooling. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of > school > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to > make > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% > 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus > for > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>> %20%25%0b>>>> > >>>>> %20%25%0b>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will > soon > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also > don't > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? > setting, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my > naive > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho > Steele-Louchart > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg > >>>>> %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on > or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g > to> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>> > %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt > >>>>> p:/ > nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 > e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>> info for > >>>>> BlindLaw: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> > %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>> g/cj > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org : > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3 > e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e> > >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e> > >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/ > nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o > -- Will Burley Mobile: (713) 614-3322 Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com ?I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display it.? ?Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall at blindlawyers.org ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 04:03:47 -0500 From: Lakeria Taylor To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Scott Marshall Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination Message-ID: <75068EC9-7D47-4752-9558-8F5352C6434D at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, Control alt v gives you paste special. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 4, 2019, at 3:51 AM, Scott Marshall via BlindLaw wrote: > > Laura and everyone: > Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, but it is on my to-do list for today for sure. > Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem. > The days of being the only author on a document are over. > Thanks again. > Scott > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Will Burley via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Will Burley > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination > > This conversation has been very welcomed! > >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> >> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use >> paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the >> keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where >> you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, >> just press the letters consecutively ) >> >> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into >> which it is pasted. >> >> Is this your experience. >> >> There are also two keystrokes that I think help. >> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the >> text is removed. >> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I >> don't remember it right now. >> >> Randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM >> To: Kelby Carlson >> Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List < >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> >> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: >> Discrimination >> >> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER ? USE CAUTION** >> >> All, >> >> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >> blindness-only formatting errors. >> >> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >> formatting will be retained. >> >> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >> very smart "auto" features. >> >> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >> options. >> >> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >> >> Happy formatting, >> Laura >> >>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>> colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>> included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain >>> sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty >>> good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>> >>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I >>> am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in >>> my documents. >>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>> Kelby, >>>> >>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason >>>> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace >>>> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be >>>> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily >>>> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to >>>> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an >>>> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you >>>> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed >>>> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating >>>> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is >>>> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>> >>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, >>>> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>> >>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to >>>>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind >>>>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing. >>>>> >>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no >>>>> idea what a non-breaking space is. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Great I?m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you >>>>>> can >> also >>>>>> do >>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>> broken somewhere along the way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to >>>>>>> make sure I do >> this >>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you >> >. >> I?m >>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>> dictionary manager. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of >>>>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional >>>>>>>> Corporation >>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> >>>>mailto: >> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>> viewed in html form. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes >>>>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and >>>>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would >>>>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office >>>>>>>>>> products. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are >> not >>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby >>>>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >>>>>>>>>> any of the information contained >> in >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission >>>>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> rg>> >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>> what you mean? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of >>>>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>mailto: >> brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> org >> > rg >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>> > kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just >>>>>>>>>>> quote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>> forward >> if >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>> to: >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing >>>>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and >> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can also >> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter ?C,? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards ?C,? >> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don?t see that very often. I don?t think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me >> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP]> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://www.loeb.com/>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/ >> www.loeb.com/>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading >> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindla >>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > sbg at sbgaal.com%3c >>>>>>> > 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >> %3cm> .com >> %3cm> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe >> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates >> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I?m far too bitter at this point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some >> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE?s, and publishing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3 >> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali >>>>>>> >>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a >> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it?s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of >> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This >> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I?m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I >> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don?t want to be silo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don?t want to be limited to practice law in an area >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James? point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James? >> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers? concerns about the candidates? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn?t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a >> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can?t read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my >> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of >> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to >> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> > %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>> > %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will >> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities >> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >> >>>>>> > %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on >> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >> > to> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>> >> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>> p:/ >> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> >> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3 >> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/ >> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >> > -- > Will Burley > Mobile: (713) 614-3322 > Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com > > ?I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display it.? ?Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall at blindlawyers.org > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lakeria2009 at gmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org ------------------------------ End of BlindLaw Digest, Vol 185, Issue 12 ***************************************** Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail transmittal is privileged and confidential intended for the addressee only. If you are neither the intended recipient nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, any disclosure of this information in any way or taking of any action in reliance on this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the person transmitting the information immediately. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware by Mimecast Ltd. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4402 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From jtfetter at yahoo.com Fri Oct 4 13:42:02 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 09:42:02 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Relativity with JAWS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f489d19-8494-c106-0aa9-382966a3d7d1@yahoo.com> Thank you; this is very helpful! I may have some additional thoughts and/or be in touch off list soon, because I will be oriented to Relativity today. On 10/4/2019 9:03 AM, Elizabeth Troutman via BlindLaw wrote: > I find Relativity itself to be pretty clunky and difficult. But, after the documents are loaded, I can have a paralegal generate an excel file with the documents OCR'd and linked into the excel file. The excel contains any labels/tagging that has been done - e.g. for email, it would have "to" in one column, "from" in another column, etc. etc. I can then type in tags and attorney notes. The excel file then gets run back through Relativity and the tags/notes appear. So, then we can spit out a set of responsive documents for example. Or, if I've tagged them for somebody's deposition, spit out just those documents, with an accompanying excel file, so I can continue to annotate. If we're working firm-wide on a doc review, I can have it spit out just my "batches" and do the tagging in accordance with whatever the guidelines are, and when it gets run back through, it looks like everyone else's batches do. Obviously, it would be better if we didn't have to do this whole process, but it's a work-around that has allowed me to do e-discovery. If you want more help with this, feel free to call - I can also put you in touch with our litigation support person who could explain it in computer jargon. > > Elizabeth Troutman > > [cid:image001.jpg at 01D57A92.8DA4F670] > > t: 336.271.3138 > f: 336.232.9138 > > 2000 Renaissance Plaza > 230 North Elm Street > Greensboro, NC 27401 > P.O. Box 26000 (27420) > > > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 8:00 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: BlindLaw Digest, Vol 185, Issue 12 > > Send BlindLaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of BlindLaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Relativity with JAWS (Gerard Sadlier) > 2. Re: Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: > Discrimination (Scott Marshall) > 3. Re: Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: > Discrimination (Lakeria Taylor) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 07:44:47 +0100 > From: Gerard Sadlier > > To: Blind Law Mailing List > > Cc: "Stewart, Christopher K" > > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Relativity with JAWS > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I would also be very interested in any information regarding this! > > Kind regards > > Ger > > On 9/27/19, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw > wrote: >> Hi Y'all, >> >> I remember some talk a few years ago about using Relativity with JAWS. >> Has anyone got more recent information on whether it's in any way >> accessible? >> >> Thanks, >> Chris >> >> >> -- >> Chris K. Stewart >> Attorney at Law >> KBA #97351 >> Ph: >> (502)457-1757 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier at gmail.com >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 08:51:11 +0000 > From: Scott Marshall > > To: Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: > Discrimination > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Laura and everyone: > Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, but it is on my to-do list for today for sure. > Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem. > The days of being the only author on a document are over. > Thanks again. > Scott > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Will Burley via BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > > Cc: Will Burley > > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination > > This conversation has been very welcomed! > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: > >> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use >> paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the >> keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where >> you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, >> just press the letters consecutively ) >> >> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into >> which it is pasted. >> >> Is this your experience. >> >> There are also two keystrokes that I think help. >> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the >> text is removed. >> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I >> don't remember it right now. >> >> Randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >> via BlindLaw >> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM >> To: Kelby Carlson > >> Cc: Laura Wolk >; Blind Law Mailing List < >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> >> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: >> Discrimination >> >> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER ? USE CAUTION** >> >> All, >> >> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >> blindness-only formatting errors. >> >> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >> formatting will be retained. >> >> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >> very smart "auto" features. >> >> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >> options. >> >> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >> >> Happy formatting, >> Laura >> >> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson > wrote: >>> Laura, >>> >>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>> colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>> included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain >>> sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty >>> good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>> >>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I >>> am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in >>> my documents. >>> >>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk > wrote: >>>> Kelby, >>>> >>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason >>>> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace >>>> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be >>>> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily >>>> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to >>>> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an >>>> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you >>>> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed >>>> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating >>>> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is >>>> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>> >>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, >>>> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>> >>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw > wrote: >>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to >>>>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind >>>>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing. >>>>> >>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no >>>>> idea what a non-breaking space is. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Great I?m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you >>>>>> can >> also >>>>>> do >>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>> broken somewhere along the way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to >>>>>>> make sure I do >> this >>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you >> >. >> I?m >>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: BlindLaw > On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>> dictionary manager. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of >>>>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional >>>>>>>> Corporation >>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> >>>>mailto: >> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >> >> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>> viewed in html form. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes >>>>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and >>>>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would >>>>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office >>>>>>>>>> products. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are >> not >>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby >>>>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >>>>>>>>>> any of the information contained >> in >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission >>>>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> rg>> >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>> what you mean? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of >>>>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>mailto: >> brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> org >> > rg >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>> > kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just >>>>>>>>>>> quote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>> forward >> if >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>> to: >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing >>>>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and >> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can also >> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter ?C,? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards ?C,? >> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don?t see that very often. I don?t think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me >> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP]> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://www.loeb.com/>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/ >> www.loeb.com/>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading >> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com: >> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> g > >>>>> > %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindla >>>>>>> > %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > sbg at sbgaal.com%3c >>>>>>> > 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >> %3cm > .com >> %3cm> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe >> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org: >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates >> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org: >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I?m far too bitter at this point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some >> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE?s, and publishing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3 >> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali >>>>>>> >>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>> < >> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org: >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a >> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it?s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of >> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This >> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I?m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I >> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don?t want to be silo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don?t want to be limited to practice law in an area >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James? point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James? >> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers? concerns about the candidates? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn?t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a >> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can?t read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my >> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of >> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to >> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> > %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>> > %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will >> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities >> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >> >>>>>> > %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on >> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >> > to> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>> >> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>> p:/ >> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >> %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> >> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>> >> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3 >> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/ >> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >> > -- > Will Burley > Mobile: (713) 614-3322 > Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com > > ?I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display it.? ?Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall at blindlawyers.org > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 04:03:47 -0500 > From: Lakeria Taylor > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Scott Marshall > Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: > Discrimination > Message-ID: <75068EC9-7D47-4752-9558-8F5352C6434D at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi all, > Control alt v gives you paste special. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 4, 2019, at 3:51 AM, Scott Marshall via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Laura and everyone: >> Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, but it is on my to-do list for today for sure. >> Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem. >> The days of being the only author on a document are over. >> Thanks again. >> Scott >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Will Burley via BlindLaw >> Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Will Burley >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination >> >> This conversation has been very welcomed! >> >>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>> >>> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use >>> paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the >>> keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where >>> you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, >>> just press the letters consecutively ) >>> >>> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into >>> which it is pasted. >>> >>> Is this your experience. >>> >>> There are also two keystrokes that I think help. >>> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the >>> text is removed. >>> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I >>> don't remember it right now. >>> >>> Randy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM >>> To: Kelby Carlson >>> Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List < >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> >>> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: >>> Discrimination >>> >>> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER ? USE CAUTION** >>> >>> All, >>> >>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>> >>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>> formatting will be retained. >>> >>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>> very smart "auto" features. >>> >>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >>> options. >>> >>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>> >>> Happy formatting, >>> Laura >>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>> colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>> included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain >>>> sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty >>>> good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>> >>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I >>>> am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in >>>> my documents. >>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> Kelby, >>>>> >>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>>> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason >>>>> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace >>>>> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be >>>>> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily >>>>> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to >>>>> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an >>>>> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you >>>>> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed >>>>> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating >>>>> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is >>>>> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>> >>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, >>>>> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>> >>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to >>>>>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind >>>>>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no >>>>>> idea what a non-breaking space is. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great I?m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you >>>>>>> can >>> also >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>> broken somewhere along the way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to >>>>>>>> make sure I do >>> this >>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you >>> >. >>> I?m >>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>> www.loeb.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>>> dictionary manager. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of >>>>>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional >>>>>>>>> Corporation >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>mailto: >>> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations. >>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>> viewed in html form. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes >>>>>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and >>>>>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would >>>>>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office >>>>>>>>>>> products. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are >>> not >>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby >>>>>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >>>>>>>>>>> any of the information contained >>> in >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission >>>>>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> rg>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>>> what you mean? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of >>>>>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>mailto: >>> brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> org >>> >> rg >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>> >> kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just >>>>>>>>>>>> quote. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and >>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can also >>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter ?C,? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards ?C,? >>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don?t see that very often. I don?t think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me >>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP]> Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://www.loeb.com/>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/ >>> www.loeb.com/>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading >>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> >> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> >> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>>>>>>> >> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindla >>>>>>>> >> %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> sbg at sbgaal.com%3c >>>>>>>> >> 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>> %3cm>> .com >>> %3cm> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe >>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates >>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I?m far too bitter at this point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE?s, and publishing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3 >>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>> < >>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a >>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it?s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of >>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This >>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I?m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I >>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don?t want to be silo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don?t want to be limited to practice law in an area >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James? point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James? >>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers? concerns about the candidates? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn?t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a >>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can?t read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my >>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of >>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to >>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>>> >> %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will >>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities >>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >>> >>>>>>> >> %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on >>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>> >> to> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>> >>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>> p:/ >>> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> >>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>> >>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3 >>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/ >>> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>> >> -- >> Will Burley >> Mobile: (713) 614-3322 >> Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> ?I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display it.? ?Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall at blindlawyers.org >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lakeria2009 at gmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of BlindLaw Digest, Vol 185, Issue 12 > ***************************************** > > Confidentiality Notice: > > The information contained in this e-mail transmittal is privileged and confidential intended for the addressee only. If you are neither the intended recipient nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, any disclosure of this information in any way or taking of any action in reliance on this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the person transmitting the information immediately. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware by Mimecast Ltd. > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Oct 4 14:53:47 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 08:53:47 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08bb01d57ac3$875602b0$96020810$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 6:16 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Good morning, Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. Please post on your internal sites and distribute to any interested audience, including law student organizations and other affinity groups. The Department of Justice office places a high value on diversity of experiences and perspectives and encourages applications from all qualified men and women from all ethnic and racial backgrounds, veterans, LGBT individuals, and persons with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. In addition to the below job opportunities, the United States Trustee Program is accepting applications for the position of U.S. Trustee for Region 9 in Cleveland, OH. For more information on how to apply, please see https://www.justice.gov/ust/file/region9ustjobannouncement.pdf/download. Attorney Vacancies & Volunteer Legal Internships Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Attorney Advisor (International)/ICHIP, Brazil State Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Arizona Job Title Summer 2020, Criminal Division, Law Extern State Arizona Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Middle District of North Carolina Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State North Carolina Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Arizona Job Title Summer 2020, Tucson Division, Law Extern State Arizona Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Arizona Job Title Spring 2020, Civil Division, Law Extern State Arizona Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Arizona Job Title Spring 2020, Tucson Division, Law Extern State Arizona Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Arizona Job Title Spring 2020, Criminal Division, Law Extern State Arizona Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Middle District of Tennessee Job Title Term Assistant United States Attorney State Tennessee Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Resident Legal Advisor, Ghana State Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Connecticut Job Title Criminal Assistant United States Attorney State Connecticut Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Job Title General Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Middle District of Tennessee Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Tennessee Posted/ Updated October 3, 2019 Hiring Organization Civil Rights Division (CRT) Job Title Trial Attorney-Human Trafficking Prosecution Unit (HTPU) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 2, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Georgia Job Title Law Student Volunteer State Georgia Posted/ Updated October 2, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of California Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State California Posted/ Updated October 2, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of Iowa Job Title ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (CRIMINAL) State Iowa Posted/ Updated October 2, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of California Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State California Posted/ Updated October 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of California Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State California Posted/ Updated October 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of Ohio Job Title Assistant United States Attorney (PART-TIME TERM APPELLATE) State Ohio Posted/ Updated October 1, 2019 Hiring Organization Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) Job Title Law Student Volunteer State Michigan Posted/ Updated October 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Texas Job Title Assistant United States Attorney (Civil) State Texas Posted/ Updated October 1, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Middle District of Alabama Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Alabama Posted/ Updated October 1, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Job Title Attorney Advisor State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated September 30, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Texas Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Texas Posted/ Updated September 29, 2019 Hiring Organization National Security Division (NSD) Job Title Supervisory Trial Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated September 27, 2019 Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization National Security Division (NSD) Job Title Attorney Advisor State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated September 27, 2019 Manage Your Email: If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. If you would like to update your contact information, please submit the following information: SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 15:32:15 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 11:32:15 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination In-Reply-To: <75068EC9-7D47-4752-9558-8F5352C6434D@gmail.com> References: <75068EC9-7D47-4752-9558-8F5352C6434D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for that, Lakeria! Scott, track changes are vastly improved in 2016, 2019, and 365. On 10/4/19, Lakeria Taylor via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi all, > Control alt v gives you paste special. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 4, 2019, at 3:51 AM, Scott Marshall via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> Laura and everyone: >> Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word >> processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did >> not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, >> but it is on my to-do list for today for sure. >> Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem. >> The days of being the only author on a document are over. >> Thanks again. >> Scott >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Will Burley via >> BlindLaw >> Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Will Burley >> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: >> Discrimination >> >> This conversation has been very welcomed! >> >>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>> >>> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use >>> paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the >>> keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where >>> you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, >>> just press the letters consecutively ) >>> >>> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into >>> which it is pasted. >>> >>> Is this your experience. >>> >>> There are also two keystrokes that I think help. >>> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the >>> text is removed. >>> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I >>> don't remember it right now. >>> >>> Randy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>> via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM >>> To: Kelby Carlson >>> Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List < >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> >>> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: >>> Discrimination >>> >>> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION** >>> >>> All, >>> >>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses >>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets >>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of >>> blindness-only formatting errors. >>> >>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another >>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original >>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is >>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10, >>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and >>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same >>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from >>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most >>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only >>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to >>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately >>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special >>> formatting will be retained. >>> >>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable >>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word >>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it. >>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents >>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to >>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and >>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right- >>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press >>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean >>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way >>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its >>> very smart "auto" features. >>> >>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as >>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of >>> options. >>> >>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately** >>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside, >>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or >>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and >>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix. >>> >>> Happy formatting, >>> Laura >>> >>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson wrote: >>>> Laura, >>>> >>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a >>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be >>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my >>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille. >>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and >>>> colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is >>>> included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain >>>> sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty >>>> good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.) >>>> >>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely >>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I >>>> am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in >>>> my documents. >>>> >>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk wrote: >>>>> Kelby, >>>>> >>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word >>>>> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for >>>>> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason >>>>> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace >>>>> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be >>>>> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily >>>>> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to >>>>> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an >>>>> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you >>>>> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed >>>>> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating >>>>> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is >>>>> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it. >>>>> >>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have >>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes, >>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some, >>>>> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks. >>>>> >>>>> I hope this is helpful. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader >>>>>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to >>>>>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind >>>>>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the >>>>>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no >>>>>> idea what a non-breaking space is. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you >>>>>>> can >>> also >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got >>>>>>> broken somewhere along the way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> \8221 >>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. >>>>>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which >>>>>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to >>>>>>>> make sure I do >>> this >>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you >>> . >>> I’m >>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angie >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US >>>>>>>> Attorney at Law >>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 >>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | >>>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura >>>>>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I >>>>>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the >>>>>>>> dictionary manager. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Laura, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of >>>>>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional >>>>>>>>> Corporation >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> mailto: >>> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that >>>>>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those >>>>>>>>> pronunciations. >>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the >>>>>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and >>>>>>>>>> viewed in html form. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes >>>>>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and >>>>>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would >>>>>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office >>>>>>>>>>> products. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This >>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous >>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential >>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are >>> not >>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for >>>>>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby >>>>>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >>>>>>>>>>> any of the information contained >>> in >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you >>>>>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately >>>>>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission >>>>>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> rg>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of >>>>>>>>>>> what you mean? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of >>>>>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt >>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation >>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501 >>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061 >>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >mailto: >>> brianunitt at holsteinlaw >>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> org >>> >> rg >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson >>>>>>>>>>>> >> kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a >>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just >>>>>>>>>>>> quote. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going >>>>>>>>>>>>> forward >>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would >>> presumably >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance," >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In >>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and >>> 8217. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can also >>> happen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these >>> symbols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter “C,” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards “C,” >>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me >>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://www.loeb.com/>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/ >>> www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission >>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading >>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> >> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> >> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> g>>>>>>> >> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindla >>>>>>>> >> %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> sbg at sbgaal.com%3c >>>>>>>> >> 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you >>> explain. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com >>> %3cm>> .com >>> %3cm> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material >>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe >>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates >>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law >>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at this point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3 >>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> R%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> sm-C >>>>>>>>>>> < >>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C%0b>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a >>> legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of >>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This >>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I >>> am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t want to be limited to practice law in an area >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don’t have time to perfect this dispatch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ >>> observation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers’ concerns about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a >>> job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my >>> schooling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of >>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to >>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org% >>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus >>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>>> >> %20%25%0b>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "parlor trick" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will >>> soon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also >>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance?? >>> setting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities >>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my >>> naive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho >>> Steele-Louchart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >>> >>>>>>> >> %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on >>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>> >> to> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt >>>>>>>> p:/ >>> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3 >>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> BlindLaw: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e >>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g/cj >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>> : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3 >>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e> >>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/ >>> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o >>> >> -- >> Will Burley >> Mobile: (713) 614-3322 >> Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> “I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to >> display it.” –Maya Angelou _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall%40blindlawyers.org >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lakeria2009%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From sai at fiatfiendum.org Sat Oct 5 14:01:31 2019 From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2019 15:01:31 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Autohotkeys for lawyers Message-ID: I've made an autohotkeys script that may help y'all. It provides OSX-style hotkeys in Windows - e.g. section, pilcrow, dagger, en/em dash, etc are all easily available to type, with no need to memorize alt-number combinations. So are explicit left and right "smart" quote marks (single & double). Instructions: https://github.com/saizai/autohotkeys_for_lawyers/ Autohotkey file: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/saizai/autohotkeys_for_lawyers/master/autohotkeys_for_lawyers.ahk I'll finish it at some point to add the remaining OSX ABC Extended Keyboard hotkeys, and to add in some extra hotkeys useful for lawyers (like nonbreaking space). Please let me know if there are any issues using it together with NVDA, Narrator, or JAWS, and what keys (other than nonbreaking space) you'd want to be added to the next version. In the meantime, I hope it's helpful. Sincerely, Sai President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc., a 501(c)(3) PS Non-gendered pronouns please. NSA et al: I'm a US citizen. From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Sat Oct 5 21:23:20 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (maurakutnyak at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2019 17:23:20 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Autohotkeys for lawyers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005201d57bc3$1ce70900$56b51b00$@gmail.com> Hello Sai, Your messages have caught my attention. I am not tech savy enough to understand how one might use the scripts you shared in this post. Never the less, my interest is sparked. I polked around on google and found your patrion page. I could not find a webcite for your venture. Is there one established yet? You seem like a renaissance person and I would like to know more about your mission. If you feel like filling me in on the progress that FF is making please email, maurakutnyak at gmail.com. Sincerely, Maura -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Sai via BlindLaw Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2019 10:02 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Sai Subject: [blindLaw] Autohotkeys for lawyers I've made an autohotkeys script that may help y'all. It provides OSX-style hotkeys in Windows - e.g. section, pilcrow, dagger, en/em dash, etc are all easily available to type, with no need to memorize alt-number combinations. So are explicit left and right "smart" quote marks (single & double). Instructions: https://github.com/saizai/autohotkeys_for_lawyers/ Autohotkey file: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/saizai/autohotkeys_for_lawyers/master/auto hotkeys_for_lawyers.ahk I'll finish it at some point to add the remaining OSX ABC Extended Keyboard hotkeys, and to add in some extra hotkeys useful for lawyers (like nonbreaking space). Please let me know if there are any issues using it together with NVDA, Narrator, or JAWS, and what keys (other than nonbreaking space) you'd want to be added to the next version. In the meantime, I hope it's helpful. Sincerely, Sai President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc., a 501(c)(3) PS Non-gendered pronouns please. NSA et al: I'm a US citizen. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.c om From sai at fiatfiendum.org Sat Oct 5 22:07:49 2019 From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2019 23:07:49 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Autohotkeys for lawyers In-Reply-To: <005201d57bc3$1ce70900$56b51b00$@gmail.com> References: <005201d57bc3$1ce70900$56b51b00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Maura - Thanks. Using the autohotkey script is very simple: install autohotkey, save the script, and run the script. That's really it. Once running, it'll automatically make e.g. alt-6 write §, or alt-e then e write é, regardless of what app you're using. I've not made a website for Fiat Fiendum yet. But here are some places you can get info: * Fiat Fiendum's Patreon page: * my resume: * talks I've given: - e.g. re sensory experience of blindness * proposals I've filed with the AOUSC for modifications to the Federal Rules of Procedure: * proposals I've filed with the FEC for improvements to campaign finance regulations: (search for Sai, or in particular REG 2015-03, 2016-01, and 2019-01), and advisory opinions: - re foreign nationals contributing code - re Bitcoin contributions (which I got passed) - re Bitcoin contributions (which I got killed) * FOIA work, e.g. * litigation against the TSA (which is in my personal capacity) Eclectic, I know. But all of it is purely public interest. I'm currently working on some research analyzing ~50 million court opinions using classifiers, stylometry, etc to extract various interesting information that is currently either paywalled (like positive / negative treatment of cases), not available at all (like who wrote an anonymous per curiam), or extremely expensive (like estimating the likelihood that a given motion will win). The name is the mission, and my personal motto. "Fiat fiendum" is Latin, short for "ut fiat, quod fiendum est". It translates roughly to "bring about that which should be". (Same "fiat" as in "fiat lux", "let there be light".) Sincerely, Sai President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc., a 501(c)(3) PS Non-gendered pronouns please. NSA et al: I'm a US citizen. On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:21 PM Maura kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello Sai, > Your messages have caught my attention. I am not tech savy enough > to understand how one might use the scripts you shared in this post. Never > the less, my interest is sparked. I polked around on google and found your > patrion page. I could not find a webcite for your venture. Is there one > established yet? You seem like a renaissance person and I would like to > know more about your mission. If you feel like filling me in on the > progress that FF is making please email, maurakutnyak at gmail.com. > > Sincerely, > > Maura > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Sai via BlindLaw > Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2019 10:02 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Sai > Subject: [blindLaw] Autohotkeys for lawyers > > I've made an autohotkeys script that may help y'all. > > It provides OSX-style hotkeys in Windows - e.g. section, pilcrow, dagger, > en/em dash, etc are all easily available to type, with no need to memorize > alt-number combinations. > > So are explicit left and right "smart" quote marks (single & double). > > > Instructions: > > https://github.com/saizai/autohotkeys_for_lawyers/ > > Autohotkey file: > > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/saizai/autohotkeys_for_lawyers/master/auto > hotkeys_for_lawyers.ahk > > > > I'll finish it at some point to add the remaining OSX ABC Extended Keyboard > hotkeys, and to add in some extra hotkeys useful for lawyers (like > nonbreaking space). > > Please let me know if there are any issues using it together with NVDA, > Narrator, or JAWS, and what keys (other than nonbreaking space) you'd want > to be added to the next version. > > In the meantime, I hope it's helpful. > > Sincerely, > Sai > President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc., a 501(c)(3) > > PS Non-gendered pronouns please. NSA et al: I'm a US citizen. > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sai%40fiatfiendum.org From sai at fiatfiendum.org Mon Oct 7 16:46:49 2019 From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 17:46:49 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Domino's v Robles (cert re website/app ADA accessibility); pro-ADA amici due Aug 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cert denied. CA9's pro-ADA opinion stands. Sincerely, Sai President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc., a 501(c)(3) PS Non-gendered pronouns please. NSA et al: I'm a US citizen. Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and autocorrect errors. On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 19:35 Sai wrote: > Domino's reply brief: > > < > https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/18/18-1539/113926/20190828122403646_DominosCertReply.pdf > > > > Apparently nobody filed a pro-ADA amicus brief, whereas there were 5 > in favor of Domino's desire to not make their app accessible. I'm > disappointed. > > However, this is still just at cert stage. If cert is granted, > hopefully the community will get its act together a bit better for the > merits. > > Sincerely, > Sai > President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc. > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 12:38 PM Sai wrote: > > > > Here's Robles' opposition brief: > > > > < > http://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/18/18-1539/112343/20190814145428627_20190814-144307-95747527-00000025.pdf > > > > > > No pro-ADA amici filed yet. I'm not 100% sure whether amici for cert > > respondent are due the same time as the respondent, Rule 34(2)(a) / > > 37(2)(a), or 7 days after that, Rule 37(3)(a). Not exactly the > > clearest set of federal rules. > > > > Sincerely, > > Sai > > President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc. > > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 9:08 AM Sai wrote: > > > > > > > https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/dominos-pizza-llc-v-robles/ > > > > > > QP: Whether websites & apps have to be blind-accessible. CA9 below > said yes. > > > > > > A bunch of amici have filed even on the cert petition. > > > > > > Seems likely to have widespread impacts, including on issues y'all > litigate. Would suggest you get in on amici pro respondent if you can. > > > > > > Deadline August 14 — and August 4 to get parties' consent. Sup. Ct. R. > 34(2)(a) > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Sai > > > > > > Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and autocorrect > errors. > From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Oct 7 17:34:51 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 17:34:51 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] =?utf-8?q?Domino=E2=80=99s_loses_in_lawsuit_over_webs?= =?utf-8?q?ite_accessibility_=7C_athNation=27s_Restaurant_News?= In-Reply-To: References: <5264AF1C-4262-4EF1-B815-FEE2BE66AEE3@osu.edu> Message-ID: https://www.nrn.com/news/supreme-court-hands-win-blind-man-who-sued-domino-s-over-website-accessibility?NL=NRN-01a&Issue=NRN-01a_20191007_NRN-01a_857&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1_b&utm_rid=CPG06000000059707&utm_campaign=33738&utm_medium=email&elq2=a48dd89435d64bc0b51f486bee637dc2 Supreme Court hands win to blind man who sued Domino’s over website accessibility Court denies the petition filed by the pizza chain, upholding the lower court ruling Joanna Fantozzi | Oct 07, 2019 The Supreme Court has denied a petition from Domino’s Pizza Inc. following a decision by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals that ruled in favor of a blind man named Guillermo Robles who sued the chain when he was unable to order pizza off the Domino’s website or mobile app even with screen reading technology. The Supreme Court decision will leave the original ruling in place, which maintained that the company must make its website and mobile app accessible under the 1990 Americans with Disabilities Act. The case was originally filed in September 2016 in the Central District of California as Robles v. Domino’s Pizza LLC. After a March 2017 decision by a district judge initially dismissed the lawsuit stating that it “would violate Domino’s due process rights” because the Department of Justice had “failed to provide helpful guidance,” the lawsuit went to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. Related: Opinion: Restaurateurs, Don’t roll over yet In a January 2019 decision, the Court of Appeals reversed the initial ruling in a unanimous decision, stating that, although ADA compliance generally applies to “places of public accommodation,” the act never actually states that that ADA compliance must occur “in a place of public accommodation.” “The panel stated that the website and app connected customers to the goods and services of Domino’s physical restaurants,” the Ninth Circuit decision stated. “To limit the ADA to discrimination in the provision of services occurring on the premises of a public accommodation would contradict the plain language of the statute.” Related: House approves ADA amendment to protect businesses The Court of Appeals also ruled that the compliance mandate did not violate the company’s Fourteenth Amendment rights to due process because the company had been given adequate time to comply and that “the ADA articulates comprehensible standards” to which companies have to conform in order to be in compliance with federal law. The court also ruled that “lack of specific regulations” as outlined in the ADA does not exempt Domino’s from following the law. Following the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, Domino’s pled their case with the Supreme Court. By denying their petition on Monday, the Supreme Court upholds the Court of Appeals decision. In 2018, over 2,200 lawsuits have been filed over website accessibility, a 181% increase from the year before, according to data from digital accessibility-focused technology company Usable Net, with the food service industry being one of the top industries named in litigation. Contact Joanna Fantozzi at joanna.fantozzi at knect365.com Follow her on Twitter: @joannafantozzi From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Oct 7 18:15:38 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 18:15:38 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Fair Work Center is hiring! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: 'Daquiz, Abigail - SOL' via Federal Attorneys Networking Group of Seattle Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 10:36 AM To: fangseattle at googlegroups.com Subject: [fangs] Fair Work Center is hiring! Subject: [atj-community] Fair Work Center is hiring! Hi everyone, Fair Work Center's legal team is growing - help us find the right person to join us! We are looking for a staff attorney to join our team's efforts advocating on behalf of, and alongside, Washington workers. While we have a preference for candidates who have already been admitted in Washington, there is some flexibility for the right person. With the support of many of you, FWC was founded just a few years ago to tackle the access to justice crisis for low-wage, immigrant, and otherwise marginalized workers. Our organization's model is unique: we combine legal services with community-based education and campaigns that empower our clients to both stand up for themselves and also to advocate for other workers to change industry norms. Our work has grown tremendously over the last few years, and we are excited about what's to come! Our team is collaborative and makes decisions about the strategic approach of our work together. Attorneys have the opportunity to see a wide variety of labor and employment issues and to explore cases of most interest to them. We have an expanding litigation practice - this is a particularly great opportunity for someone who is excited about helping to shape the direction of our docket. The job posting is available here. We'd love it if you could help us connect with our next future colleague! I'm happy to discuss with anyone who might be interested. Best, Danielle Danielle Alvarado Legal Director | Fair Work Center 116 Warren Street, Suite A | Seattle, WA 98109 dalvarado at fairworkcenter.org | 206-331-3824 pronouns: she/her This communication is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient to whom it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication by someone other than the intended addressee or its designated agent is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify this firm immediately by reply to this communication. --- You are currently subscribed to atj-community as: daquiz.abigail at dol.gov. To access web features of this list, visit list.wsba.org/read/ Please send an email to the list administrator to update the list administrator with changes to your email address. -- -- You received this message because you are a federal agency attorney and subscribed to the FANGS group. To SEND A MESSAGE to this group, email to fangseattle at googlegroups.com. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, email fangseattle+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/fangseattle?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Federal Attorneys Networking Group of Seattle" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to fangseattle+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/fangseattle/MW2PR0901MB239329DEC007D0237F1227CE989B0%40MW2PR0901MB2393.namprd09.prod.outlook.com. From sai at fiatfiendum.org Mon Oct 7 20:46:41 2019 From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 21:46:41 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] NFB representative wanted re 508 compliance in FOIA Message-ID: I'm discussing some issues about FOIA reform with a coalition of major civil rights groups. They include 508 & E-FOIA compliance, particularly with proactive disclosures. I'd would like someone looped in who has experience representing the interests of blind people & electronic 508 compliance, eg an NFB lawyer/lobbyist. Others with similar background also welcome. My interests are very closely aligned, but I don't have that experience or backing. Please email me offlist. Sincerely, Sai President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc., a 501(c)(3) PS Non-gendered pronouns please. NSA et al: I'm a US citizen. Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision and autocorrect errors. From laura.wolk at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 11:24:17 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 07:24:17 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] a few quick updates Message-ID: All, Some updates from my conversations with Vispero. 1. The 2020 public release is scheduled for October 31, with the next release scheduled for December. 2. the left and right quote changes to the Word Dictionary are scheduled to be introduced into the December release. 3. I have alerted Vispero to issues regarding highlighting no longer working using Braille marking, the ongoing issue with nonbreaking spaces ont being reported, and the fact that Jaws has reverted back to not saying the footnote number once you enter into the footnote pane. 4. An issue dealing with auto formatting bubbles and track changes causing Jaws to crash has perhaps been fixed in the September .28 release. Angie, I know that you were having issues with this as well. My test documents no longer crash, so it'd be very helpful if you can let me know if your docs also still are crashing. I also am no longer having issue with trying to type out large comments and having those crash. I've I guess sort of taken on Word as my pet project here, but feedback from list members is extremely important to me as well. I am only reporting things I am noticing in my daily experience, so if you want or have noticed anything else, please let me know. Thanks, Laura From amatney at loeb.com Wed Oct 9 13:22:20 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:22:20 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] a few quick updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246E96F8@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Laura, thanks for this update. First, I have to say that I wish JAWS would alert users that updates are available even if the users do not have admin privileges on their machines. I believe I’m running the penultimate release, but as I don’t have admin privileges, I cannot even check for updates. This is not an issue with NVDA, so I don’t know why it has to be with JAWS. But that is not actually what I meant to discuss in this email. I am having issues where the previous and next comment commands when quick keys are on will skip certain comments. This generally occurs when there are replies to a comment. I am finding that it is difficult to make sure I am reading all comments without bringing up the list of comments. I don’t always like to bring up the list because my focus is almost invariably taken back to the top of the list, no matter where I am in the document, so it becomes hard to read comments in context. I will work with our IT team to update JAWS and see if I continue to have this issue. I do miss the days when I had admin privileges, which was the case at my last firm. I emailed you about another matter off-list. Thanks, Angie Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | E-mail:amatney at loeb.com Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 7:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindLaw] a few quick updates All, Some updates from my conversations with Vispero. 1. The 2020 public release is scheduled for October 31, with the next release scheduled for December. 2. the left and right quote changes to the Word Dictionary are scheduled to be introduced into the December release. 3. I have alerted Vispero to issues regarding highlighting no longer working using Braille marking, the ongoing issue with nonbreaking spaces ont being reported, and the fact that Jaws has reverted back to not saying the footnote number once you enter into the footnote pane. 4. An issue dealing with auto formatting bubbles and track changes causing Jaws to crash has perhaps been fixed in the September .28 release. Angie, I know that you were having issues with this as well. My test documents no longer crash, so it'd be very helpful if you can let me know if your docs also still are crashing. I also am no longer having issue with trying to type out large comments and having those crash. I've I guess sort of taken on Word as my pet project here, but feedback from list members is extremely important to me as well. I am only reporting things I am noticing in my daily experience, so if you want or have noticed anything else, please let me know. Thanks, Laura _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2157 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From tim at timeldermusic.com Thu Oct 10 19:01:49 2019 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (tim at timeldermusic.com) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 12:01:49 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] a few quick updates In-Reply-To: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246E96F8@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> References: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246E96F8@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Message-ID: <00b101d57f9d$32a49ea0$97eddbe0$@timeldermusic.com> Hi, My test document is still crashing Word with JAWS September release running. -----Original Message----- From: Angela Matney Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:22 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindLaw] a few quick updates Laura, thanks for this update. First, I have to say that I wish JAWS would alert users that updates are available even if the users do not have admin privileges on their machines. I believe I’m running the penultimate release, but as I don’t have admin privileges, I cannot even check for updates. This is not an issue with NVDA, so I don’t know why it has to be with JAWS. But that is not actually what I meant to discuss in this email. I am having issues where the previous and next comment commands when quick keys are on will skip certain comments. This generally occurs when there are replies to a comment. I am finding that it is difficult to make sure I am reading all comments without bringing up the list of comments. I don’t always like to bring up the list because my focus is almost invariably taken back to the top of the list, no matter where I am in the document, so it becomes hard to read comments in context. I will work with our IT team to update JAWS and see if I continue to have this issue. I do miss the days when I had admin privileges, which was the case at my last firm. I emailed you about another matter off-list. Thanks, Angie Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | E-mail:amatney at loeb.com Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 7:24 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Laura Wolk Subject: [blindLaw] a few quick updates All, Some updates from my conversations with Vispero. 1. The 2020 public release is scheduled for October 31, with the next release scheduled for December. 2. the left and right quote changes to the Word Dictionary are scheduled to be introduced into the December release. 3. I have alerted Vispero to issues regarding highlighting no longer working using Braille marking, the ongoing issue with nonbreaking spaces ont being reported, and the fact that Jaws has reverted back to not saying the footnote number once you enter into the footnote pane. 4. An issue dealing with auto formatting bubbles and track changes causing Jaws to crash has perhaps been fixed in the September .28 release. Angie, I know that you were having issues with this as well. My test documents no longer crash, so it'd be very helpful if you can let me know if your docs also still are crashing. I also am no longer having issue with trying to type out large comments and having those crash. I've I guess sort of taken on Word as my pet project here, but feedback from list members is extremely important to me as well. I am only reporting things I am noticing in my daily experience, so if you want or have noticed anything else, please let me know. Thanks, Laura _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Oct 11 16:24:37 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:24:37 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000d01d58050$608b2b50$21a181f0$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 5:22 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Good morning, Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. Please post on your internal sites and distribute to any interested audience, including law student organizations and other affinity groups. The Department of Justice office places a high value on diversity of experiences and perspectives and encourages applications from all qualified men and women from all ethnic and racial backgrounds, veterans, LGBT individuals, and persons with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. In addition to the below job opportunities, the United States Trustee Program is accepting applications for the position of U.S. Trustee for Region 9 in Cleveland, OH. For more information on how to apply, please see https://www.justice.gov/ust/file/region9ustjobannouncement.pdf/download. Attorney Vacancies & Volunteer Legal Internships Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization USAO Guam & Northern Mariana Islands Job Title Attorney State Posted/ Updated October 10, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Missouri Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Missouri Posted/ Updated October 10, 2019 Hiring Organization Tax Division (TAX) Job Title Volunteer Legal Internship Opportunities State Posted/ Updated October 10, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Job Title Supervisory Attorney Advisor State New York Posted/ Updated October 9, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Texas Job Title Law Student Intern -- Spring Semester 2020 State Texas Posted/ Updated October 9, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Pennsylvania Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Pennsylvania Posted/ Updated October 9, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Pennsylvania Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Academic Year State Pennsylvania Posted/ Updated October 8, 2019 Hiring Organization Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) Job Title Volunteer Legal Intern State California Posted/ Updated October 8, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Pennsylvania Job Title Special Assistant United States Attorney State Pennsylvania Posted/ Updated October 8, 2019 Hiring Organization National Security Division (NSD) Job Title Trial Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 8, 2019 Hiring Organization Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Job Title Law Student Volunteer State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 8, 2019 Hiring Organization Civil Rights Division (CRT) Job Title Trial Attorney-Human Trafficking Prosecution Unit (HTPU) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 7, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of California Job Title Assistant United States Attorney - Major Frauds and Public Corruption Section State California Posted/ Updated October 7, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Job Title CLC Attorney Advisor State Missouri Posted/ Updated October 7, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Iowa Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Spring State Iowa Posted/ Updated October 7, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Oregon Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Oregon Posted/ Updated October 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Oregon Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Oregon Posted/ Updated October 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Washington Job Title Summer Law Clerk State Washington Posted/ Updated October 4, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Maine Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer State Maine Posted/ Updated October 4, 2019 Manage Your Email: If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. If you would like to update your contact information, please submit the following information: SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Oct 11 16:27:54 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 16:27:54 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Washington Attorney General's Office - Attorney Opportunities Message-ID: From: Linda Nakamura Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 9:25 AM To: Diversity Stakeholders Subject: [diversity-stakeholders] WA AGO - Attorney Opportunities At the Washington State Attorney General’s Office, we aspire to be the best public law office in the nation. We are committed to providing excellent, independent, and ethical legal services to the State of Washington and to protecting the rights of its people. It is essential to our mission to create and maintain an office that is diverse, respectful, inclusive and composed of the best legal talent available. If you share our vision and have a desire to do important work that makes a difference for our community, then we invite you to consider applying for the following attorney opportunities. Click on the link below to access full position descriptions and qualifications for each of these ATTORNEY opportunities. You can also visit the state's centralized recruitment site at www.careers.wa.gov. For information about the AGO, visit www.atg.wa.gov. AAG - Consumer Protection Division - The Office's Consumer Protection Division is seeking to hire high-performing attorneys to develop and litigate consumer protection cases related to consumers' access to health care. In addition to health care cases, the attorneys may litigate other consumer protection cases pursuant to the Consumer Protection Act (CPA), RCW 19.86, and other consumer protection laws. (DL: 10/11/19) Closes tonight! AAG - Torts Division (Seattle) - The Seattle office of the Torts Division has an opening for a lawyer with five-plus years of practice experience including a strong foundation in litigation. (DL: 10/13/19) Closing Sunday! AAG - Torts Division (Olympia) - The Olympia/Tumwater office’s Torts Division has an opening for a lawyer with at least five years of litigation experience. (DL: 10/13/19) Closing Sunday! AAG - Social and Health Services Division - The Social and Health Olympia Division has an immediate opening for an attorney to serve as an AAG on its juvenile litigation team. (DL: 10/13/19) Closing Sunday! AAG - Transportation & Public Construction Division - The Transportation and Public Construction Division has an immediate opening for an attorney interested in providing client advice in the areas of real property, public construction, public records, and garnishments, as well as being willing and able to litigate matters. (DL: 10/23/19) AAG - Civil Rights Division - The Wing Luke Civil Rights Division has an exciting opportunity for an experienced attorney interested in joining our civil rights litigation team. (DL: 10/24/19) AAG - Labor and Industries Division - The Office's Labor and Industries Division has an opening for an attorney to represent the Department of Labor and Industries in workers' compensation (industrial insurance) matters. (DL: 10/24/19) AAG - Ecology Division's Water Resources Section - The Ecology Division seeks an attorney with an interest in water resources and other areas of environmental law. (DL: 10/28/19) AAG - Fish, Wildlife and Parks Division - The Fish, Wildlife and Parks Division in Olympia seeks candidates to serve as an AAG. (DL: 10/31/19) AAG – University of Washington Division - The Healthcare Team is looking for a capable colleague to join us in providing excellent client service. (DL: 11/3/19) Please consider joining our e-mail subscription service to be informed of our attorney postings. Honoring diversity, equity and inclusion means that as an agency, and as individuals, we are committed to ensuring that all employees and volunteers enjoy a respectful, safe and supportive working environment. Only by fostering the inclusion of people from all backgrounds, cultures and attributes, can AGO employees and volunteers achieve their fullest potential and best advance the goals and mission of the AGO. The AGO is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, marital status, sexual orientation/gender identity, age, disability, honorably discharged veteran or military status, retaliation or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability. Persons requiring reasonable accommodation in the application process or requiring information in an alternative format may contact Tracy Robinson at 360-586-7693. Those with a hearing impairment in need of accommodation are encouraged to contact the Washington Relay Service at 1-800-676-3777 or www.washingtonrelay.com --- You are currently subscribed to diversity-stakeholders as: Linda.Nakamura at atg.wa.gov. To unsubscribe click here: http://list.wsba.org/u?id=15777449.8b1c579308a25214f1865aba529e6cfd&n=T&l=diversity-stakeholders&o=1135786 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-1135786-15777449.8b1c579308a25214f1865aba529e6cfd at list.wsba.org If you have any questions, or wish to change your email address, please contact the WSBA List Administrator. --- You are currently subscribed to diversity-stakeholders as: noel.nightingale at ed.gov. To unsubscribe click here: http://list.wsba.org/u?id=9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389&n=T&l=diversity-stakeholders&o=1136284 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-1136284-9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389 at list.wsba.org If you have any questions, or wish to change your email address, please contact the WSBA List Administrator. From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Oct 11 18:45:37 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:45:37 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 Message-ID: All, The nightmarish scenario of Jaws reading all material,both old and new, in a track changed document seems to have arisen with a vengeance as of the late September release. I have tried restarting jaws, restarting the computer, refreshing the screen, and switching to no markup. Nothing works. My ability to work quickly and reliably has just been ground to a screeching halt. Why not simply migrate back to an earlier update, you might ask? Well, my friends, it's because **that** update was causing heavily track changed documents to crash as soon as the document was opened. And how did Vispero come to know that fact? Because they tested it and identified hhe problem and committed themselves to fixing it as soon as possible? No, of course not. Because my coworkers and I spent hours, literally hours, isolating the problem, creating a test document with nonsensitive information that replicated it, and sending it to them. I am truly at my whits end. I am a fully-employed person with a disability working at one of the most stressful and time consuming jobs in our profession. And yet, here I am, using my work time to literally sit on the phone and **explain**, yes, **EXPLAIN, step-by-step, to Vispero employees how to **TURN ON Track CHANGES**, because they are so unfamiliar with this concept that they don't even know how to do it. I do not have the time to take on a second full-time job just so I can do my first one. None of us do. This is utterly unacceptable. We need our leadership to step in now. Stop bringing Microsoft to national conventions to wax eloquent about how much they care about accessibility if in fact they don't. If in fact they are committed to not assisting at all with products that people still pay them to suppor, products that the entire federal government uses, products that just ask the blind to deal with it or risk losing their jobs. Stop touting Jaws as if it's the best thing since sliced bread if, one week into the Supreme Court term, I now effectively cannot do my job, no, not have a harder time doing my job, but cannot do my job, because no one is testing this stuff before updates are released. I am just incensed. I also need someone to test whether this problem is occurring on Beta 2020 with Word 2016. I cannot get beta 2020 installed on my computer here. But I need to verify whether it's fixed in that release. I swear, if they try making me wait until December to fix this, I'm going to need some major reinforcements. Now please excuse me while I quickly go angry cry in the bathroom, put on my nice happy brave face again, and resign myself to spending thrice as much time on my work as I needed to spend yesterday. Your prayers are appreciated. From jtfetter at yahoo.com Fri Oct 11 19:04:49 2019 From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:04:49 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: First of all, I'm just sick hearing about this and very sorry that you have to deal with all of this all over again. I also agree that Microsoft and Vespero should?? have their feet held to the fire, up to and including being uninvited from national conventions, if they continue to demonstrate this level of indifference toward our ability to do our jobs. Just a few questions: 1. What version of Office are you running? You mentioned 2016, so I assume you have that rather than 365. 2. I'd be happy to test the 2020 beta, but I'm running 365. I'm not sure how helpful that would be. 3. Have you tried NVDA? I have experienced fewer stability issues, but reviewing track changes is a more laborious process. I could be mistaken, but I do not know of any way to list all changes in NVDA, as is at least theoretically possible in Jaws. Again, I am very sorry that you are dealing with this. You are not alone in this struggle. We will get there somehow. On 10/11/2019 2:45 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > All, > > The nightmarish scenario of Jaws reading all material,both old and > new, in a track changed document seems to have arisen with a vengeance > as of the late September release. I have tried restarting jaws, > restarting the computer, refreshing the screen, and switching to no > markup. Nothing works. > > My ability to work quickly and reliably has just been ground to a > screeching halt. Why not simply migrate back to an earlier update, > you might ask? Well, my friends, it's because **that** update was > causing heavily track changed documents to crash as soon as the > document was opened. And how did Vispero come to know that fact? > Because they tested it and identified hhe problem and committed > themselves to fixing it as soon as possible? No, of course not. > Because my coworkers and I spent hours, literally hours, isolating the > problem, creating a test document with nonsensitive information that > replicated it, and sending it to them. I am truly at my whits end. I > am a fully-employed person with a disability working at one of the > most stressful and time consuming jobs in our profession. And yet, > here I am, using my work time to literally sit on the phone and > **explain**, yes, **EXPLAIN, step-by-step, to Vispero employees how to > **TURN ON Track CHANGES**, because they are so unfamiliar with this > concept that they don't even know how to do it. I do not have the > time to take on a second full-time job just so I can do my first one. > None of us do. This is utterly unacceptable. We need our leadership > to step in now. Stop bringing Microsoft to national conventions to > wax eloquent about how much they care about accessibility if in fact > they don't. If in fact they are committed to not assisting at all > with products that people still pay them to suppor, products that the > entire federal government uses, products that just ask the blind to > deal with it or risk losing their jobs. Stop touting Jaws as if it's > the best thing since sliced bread if, one week into the Supreme Court > term, I now effectively cannot do my job, no, not have a harder time > doing my job, but cannot do my job, because no one is testing this > stuff before updates are released. I am just incensed. > > I also need someone to test whether this problem is occurring on Beta > 2020 with Word 2016. I cannot get beta 2020 installed on my computer > here. But I need to verify whether it's fixed in that release. I > swear, if they try making me wait until December to fix this, I'm > going to need some major reinforcements. > > Now please excuse me while I quickly go angry cry in the bathroom, put > on my nice happy brave face again, and resign myself to spending > thrice as much time on my work as I needed to spend yesterday. Your > prayers are appreciated. > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Oct 11 19:34:39 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 19:34:39 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Jury Awards $5.2M Against Walmart in EEOC Disability Case In-Reply-To: <16789253.41823@updates.eeoc.gov> References: <16789253.41823@updates.eeoc.gov> Message-ID: From: U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 12:24 PM Subject: Jury Awards $5.2M Against Walmart in EEOC Disability Case Having trouble viewing this email? View it as a Web page. [eeoc banner] Washington, D.C. Headquarters Contact: 202-663-4191 or newsroom at eeoc.gov FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Oct. 11, 2019 Jury Awards $5.2 Million Against Walmart in EEOC Disability Discrimination Case Jury Finds Retail Giant Suspended and Failed to Accommodate Longtime Deaf Employee With Visual Impairment MADISON, Wis. - Late yesterday, a jury determined that Walmart violated federal law when it refused to accommodate the disabilities of a longtime employee, and awarded $5.2 million in damages, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) announced today. According to the EEOC's lawsuit, an employee, who has a developmental disability and is deaf and visually impaired, worked as a cart pusher in the Beloit, Wis., Walmart for 16 years before a new manager started at the store. In his first month, the new store manager suspended the employee and forced him to resubmit medical paperwork in order to keep his reasonable accommodations. Prior to the suspension, the employee performed his job with the accommodation of assistance from a job coach provided by public funding. The employee's conditions had not changed, the EEOC said. When the employee and his legal guardian submitted new medical paperwork, requesting the continued accommodation of assistance from a job coach, the store cut off communication and effectively terminated him, the EEOC charged. After a 3½-day trial, the jury found in favor of the EEOC and awarded the employee $200,000 in compensatory damages and an additional $5 million in punitive damages. "Employers have a legal obligation under federal law to work with employees who need accom­modations for disabilities," said Gregory Gochanour, regional attorney for the EEOC's Chicago District. "When companies shirk that obligation, the EEOC will fight to uphold the rights of disability discrimin­ation victims. In this case the jury sent a strong message to Walmart and to other employers that if they fail to live up to their obligations under the law, they will be penalized." The case was tried for the EEOC by Laurie Vasichek, Carrie Vance and Jean Kamp. The EEOC's Chicago District is responsible for investigating charges of employment discrimina­tion, administrative enforcement, and the conduct of agency litigation in Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, North Dakota and South Dakota, with Area Offices in Milwaukee and Minneapolis. The EEOC advances opportunity in the workplace by enforcing federal laws prohibiting employment discrimination. More information is available at www.eeoc.gov. Stay connected with the latest EEOC news by subscribing to our email updates. ________________________________ Stay Connected with U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission [https://admin.govdelivery.com/attachments/fancy_images/USEEOC/2015/09/625181/eeocseal_original.png] [Facebook] [Twitter] [Youtube] [RSS Feed] [Govdelivery] SUBSCRIBER SERVICES: Manage Subscriptions | Unsubscribe All | Help ________________________________ This email was sent to NOEL.NIGHTINGALE at ED.GOV using GovDelivery Communications Cloud on behalf of: U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission · 131 M Street, NE · Washington, DC 20507 [GovDelivery logo] From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Fri Oct 11 19:38:26 2019 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:38:26 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <073CCD37-CE7D-498C-AB14-5B2B9A8643CF@gmail.com> Hi Laura and all. Well, I’m not a law school student yet, but I’m in the process of getting there. Due to that, I have not deal yet with track changes with word document. However, I have a suggestion if some of you could try if you have a Mac computer. Have you try to complete the track changes in Micrsoft word document using Voiceover in the Mac? I’m assuming this could work with pages and offfice 2016 that is I heard is accessible with Voiceover on the Mac. Hopefully these suggestions help some of you. Look forwrd to hear form you soon. Thanks so much. Helga Schreiber Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone 8 > On Oct 11, 2019, at 2:46 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > All, > > The nightmarish scenario of Jaws reading all material,both old and > new, in a track changed document seems to have arisen with a vengeance > as of the late September release. I have tried restarting jaws, > restarting the computer, refreshing the screen, and switching to no > markup. Nothing works. > > My ability to work quickly and reliably has just been ground to a > screeching halt. Why not simply migrate back to an earlier update, > you might ask? Well, my friends, it's because **that** update was > causing heavily track changed documents to crash as soon as the > document was opened. And how did Vispero come to know that fact? > Because they tested it and identified hhe problem and committed > themselves to fixing it as soon as possible? No, of course not. > Because my coworkers and I spent hours, literally hours, isolating the > problem, creating a test document with nonsensitive information that > replicated it, and sending it to them. I am truly at my whits end. I > am a fully-employed person with a disability working at one of the > most stressful and time consuming jobs in our profession. And yet, > here I am, using my work time to literally sit on the phone and > **explain**, yes, **EXPLAIN, step-by-step, to Vispero employees how to > **TURN ON Track CHANGES**, because they are so unfamiliar with this > concept that they don't even know how to do it. I do not have the > time to take on a second full-time job just so I can do my first one. > None of us do. This is utterly unacceptable. We need our leadership > to step in now. Stop bringing Microsoft to national conventions to > wax eloquent about how much they care about accessibility if in fact > they don't. If in fact they are committed to not assisting at all > with products that people still pay them to suppor, products that the > entire federal government uses, products that just ask the blind to > deal with it or risk losing their jobs. Stop touting Jaws as if it's > the best thing since sliced bread if, one week into the Supreme Court > term, I now effectively cannot do my job, no, not have a harder time > doing my job, but cannot do my job, because no one is testing this > stuff before updates are released. I am just incensed. > > I also need someone to test whether this problem is occurring on Beta > 2020 with Word 2016. I cannot get beta 2020 installed on my computer > here. But I need to verify whether it's fixed in that release. I > swear, if they try making me wait until December to fix this, I'm > going to need some major reinforcements. > > Now please excuse me while I quickly go angry cry in the bathroom, put > on my nice happy brave face again, and resign myself to spending > thrice as much time on my work as I needed to spend yesterday. Your > prayers are appreciated. > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Fri Oct 11 19:45:45 2019 From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:45:45 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 In-Reply-To: <073CCD37-CE7D-498C-AB14-5B2B9A8643CF@gmail.com> References: <073CCD37-CE7D-498C-AB14-5B2B9A8643CF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <81D0F783-0F8E-426D-8E6D-B928AFD66432@gmail.com> Hi all again. In my last email message, I ment to ask if you guys have try to deal with tracck changes using pages or office 2016 with Voiceover on the Mac computer? If not, I was thinking that could help some of you to try to test it out if yu have the Mac. Thanks again. Helga Schreiber Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone 8 > On Oct 11, 2019, at 3:38 PM, Helga Schreiber wrote: > > Hi Laura and all. Well, I’m not a law school student yet, but I’m in the process of getting there. Due to that, I have not deal yet with track changes with word document. However, I have a suggestion if some of you could try if you have a Mac computer. Have you try to complete the track changes in Micrsoft word document using Voiceover in the Mac? I’m assuming this could work with pages and offfice 2016 that is I heard is accessible with Voiceover on the Mac. Hopefully these suggestions help some of you. Look forwrd to hear form you soon. Thanks so much. > > Helga Schreiber > Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Sent from my iPhone 8 > > > >>> On Oct 11, 2019, at 2:46 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >> All, >> >> The nightmarish scenario of Jaws reading all material,both old and >> new, in a track changed document seems to have arisen with a vengeance >> as of the late September release. I have tried restarting jaws, >> restarting the computer, refreshing the screen, and switching to no >> markup. Nothing works. >> >> My ability to work quickly and reliably has just been ground to a >> screeching halt. Why not simply migrate back to an earlier update, >> you might ask? Well, my friends, it's because **that** update was >> causing heavily track changed documents to crash as soon as the >> document was opened. And how did Vispero come to know that fact? >> Because they tested it and identified hhe problem and committed >> themselves to fixing it as soon as possible? No, of course not. >> Because my coworkers and I spent hours, literally hours, isolating the >> problem, creating a test document with nonsensitive information that >> replicated it, and sending it to them. I am truly at my whits end. I >> am a fully-employed person with a disability working at one of the >> most stressful and time consuming jobs in our profession. And yet, >> here I am, using my work time to literally sit on the phone and >> **explain**, yes, **EXPLAIN, step-by-step, to Vispero employees how to >> **TURN ON Track CHANGES**, because they are so unfamiliar with this >> concept that they don't even know how to do it. I do not have the >> time to take on a second full-time job just so I can do my first one. >> None of us do. This is utterly unacceptable. We need our leadership >> to step in now. Stop bringing Microsoft to national conventions to >> wax eloquent about how much they care about accessibility if in fact >> they don't. If in fact they are committed to not assisting at all >> with products that people still pay them to suppor, products that the >> entire federal government uses, products that just ask the blind to >> deal with it or risk losing their jobs. Stop touting Jaws as if it's >> the best thing since sliced bread if, one week into the Supreme Court >> term, I now effectively cannot do my job, no, not have a harder time >> doing my job, but cannot do my job, because no one is testing this >> stuff before updates are released. I am just incensed. >> >> I also need someone to test whether this problem is occurring on Beta >> 2020 with Word 2016. I cannot get beta 2020 installed on my computer >> here. But I need to verify whether it's fixed in that release. I >> swear, if they try making me wait until December to fix this, I'm >> going to need some major reinforcements. >> >> Now please excuse me while I quickly go angry cry in the bathroom, put >> on my nice happy brave face again, and resign myself to spending >> thrice as much time on my work as I needed to spend yesterday. Your >> prayers are appreciated. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Oct 11 20:16:12 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 16:16:12 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 In-Reply-To: <81D0F783-0F8E-426D-8E6D-B928AFD66432@gmail.com> References: <073CCD37-CE7D-498C-AB14-5B2B9A8643CF@gmail.com> <81D0F783-0F8E-426D-8E6D-B928AFD66432@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi James, Yes I'm on 2016, and I do need it to be tested with 2016 unfortunately. I can't go into details, but for good reason, I can't switch to 365 or NVDA. Which is why Microsoft and Vispero's attitudes are so ridiculous. Because I'm far from the only one in this situation. For a variety of security or compatibility reasons, many companies won't let one person use 365 while everyone else is on 2016. I really do appreciate your concern. I hope I am able to keep a level head when speaking to them all. Laura On 10/11/19, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hi all again. In my last email message, I ment to ask if you guys have try > to deal with tracck changes using pages or office 2016 with Voiceover on the > Mac computer? If not, I was thinking that could help some of you to try to > test it out if yu have the Mac. Thanks again. > > Helga Schreiber > Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Sent from my iPhone 8 > > > >> On Oct 11, 2019, at 3:38 PM, Helga Schreiber >> wrote: >> >> Hi Laura and all. Well, I’m not a law school student yet, but I’m in the >> process of getting there. Due to that, I have not deal yet with track >> changes with word document. However, I have a suggestion if some of you >> could try if you have a Mac computer. Have you try to complete the track >> changes in Micrsoft word document using Voiceover in the Mac? I’m assuming >> this could work with pages and offfice 2016 that is I heard is accessible >> with Voiceover on the Mac. Hopefully these suggestions help some of you. >> Look forwrd to hear form you soon. Thanks so much. >> >> Helga Schreiber >> Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Sent from my iPhone 8 >> >> >> >>>> On Oct 11, 2019, at 2:46 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> All, >>> >>> The nightmarish scenario of Jaws reading all material,both old and >>> new, in a track changed document seems to have arisen with a vengeance >>> as of the late September release. I have tried restarting jaws, >>> restarting the computer, refreshing the screen, and switching to no >>> markup. Nothing works. >>> >>> My ability to work quickly and reliably has just been ground to a >>> screeching halt. Why not simply migrate back to an earlier update, >>> you might ask? Well, my friends, it's because **that** update was >>> causing heavily track changed documents to crash as soon as the >>> document was opened. And how did Vispero come to know that fact? >>> Because they tested it and identified hhe problem and committed >>> themselves to fixing it as soon as possible? No, of course not. >>> Because my coworkers and I spent hours, literally hours, isolating the >>> problem, creating a test document with nonsensitive information that >>> replicated it, and sending it to them. I am truly at my whits end. I >>> am a fully-employed person with a disability working at one of the >>> most stressful and time consuming jobs in our profession. And yet, >>> here I am, using my work time to literally sit on the phone and >>> **explain**, yes, **EXPLAIN, step-by-step, to Vispero employees how to >>> **TURN ON Track CHANGES**, because they are so unfamiliar with this >>> concept that they don't even know how to do it. I do not have the >>> time to take on a second full-time job just so I can do my first one. >>> None of us do. This is utterly unacceptable. We need our leadership >>> to step in now. Stop bringing Microsoft to national conventions to >>> wax eloquent about how much they care about accessibility if in fact >>> they don't. If in fact they are committed to not assisting at all >>> with products that people still pay them to suppor, products that the >>> entire federal government uses, products that just ask the blind to >>> deal with it or risk losing their jobs. Stop touting Jaws as if it's >>> the best thing since sliced bread if, one week into the Supreme Court >>> term, I now effectively cannot do my job, no, not have a harder time >>> doing my job, but cannot do my job, because no one is testing this >>> stuff before updates are released. I am just incensed. >>> >>> I also need someone to test whether this problem is occurring on Beta >>> 2020 with Word 2016. I cannot get beta 2020 installed on my computer >>> here. But I need to verify whether it's fixed in that release. I >>> swear, if they try making me wait until December to fix this, I'm >>> going to need some major reinforcements. >>> >>> Now please excuse me while I quickly go angry cry in the bathroom, put >>> on my nice happy brave face again, and resign myself to spending >>> thrice as much time on my work as I needed to spend yesterday. Your >>> prayers are appreciated. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com > From amatney at loeb.com Fri Oct 11 20:22:09 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 20:22:09 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 In-Reply-To: References: <073CCD37-CE7D-498C-AB14-5B2B9A8643CF@gmail.com> <81D0F783-0F8E-426D-8E6D-B928AFD66432@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A539246EE10D@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Yes, the requirement to use specific versions of Office, etc. is I think quite common. I’ve experienced this at both of my firms. Angie Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | E-mail:amatney at loeb.com Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 4:16 PM To: Helga Schreiber Cc: Laura Wolk ; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 Hi James, Yes I'm on 2016, and I do need it to be tested with 2016 unfortunately. I can't go into details, but for good reason, I can't switch to 365 or NVDA. Which is why Microsoft and Vispero's attitudes are so ridiculous. Because I'm far from the only one in this situation. For a variety of security or compatibility reasons, many companies won't let one person use 365 while everyone else is on 2016. I really do appreciate your concern. I hope I am able to keep a level head when speaking to them all. Laura On 10/11/19, Helga Schreiber wrote: > Hi all again. In my last email message, I ment to ask if you guys have try > to deal with tracck changes using pages or office 2016 with Voiceover on the > Mac computer? If not, I was thinking that could help some of you to try to > test it out if yu have the Mac. Thanks again. > > Helga Schreiber > Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com > Sent from my iPhone 8 > > > >> On Oct 11, 2019, at 3:38 PM, Helga Schreiber >> wrote: >> >> Hi Laura and all. Well, I’m not a law school student yet, but I’m in the >> process of getting there. Due to that, I have not deal yet with track >> changes with word document. However, I have a suggestion if some of you >> could try if you have a Mac computer. Have you try to complete the track >> changes in Micrsoft word document using Voiceover in the Mac? I’m assuming >> this could work with pages and offfice 2016 that is I heard is accessible >> with Voiceover on the Mac. Hopefully these suggestions help some of you. >> Look forwrd to hear form you soon. Thanks so much. >> >> Helga Schreiber >> Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com >> Sent from my iPhone 8 >> >> >> >>>> On Oct 11, 2019, at 2:46 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> All, >>> >>> The nightmarish scenario of Jaws reading all material,both old and >>> new, in a track changed document seems to have arisen with a vengeance >>> as of the late September release. I have tried restarting jaws, >>> restarting the computer, refreshing the screen, and switching to no >>> markup. Nothing works. >>> >>> My ability to work quickly and reliably has just been ground to a >>> screeching halt. Why not simply migrate back to an earlier update, >>> you might ask? Well, my friends, it's because **that** update was >>> causing heavily track changed documents to crash as soon as the >>> document was opened. And how did Vispero come to know that fact? >>> Because they tested it and identified hhe problem and committed >>> themselves to fixing it as soon as possible? No, of course not. >>> Because my coworkers and I spent hours, literally hours, isolating the >>> problem, creating a test document with nonsensitive information that >>> replicated it, and sending it to them. I am truly at my whits end. I >>> am a fully-employed person with a disability working at one of the >>> most stressful and time consuming jobs in our profession. And yet, >>> here I am, using my work time to literally sit on the phone and >>> **explain**, yes, **EXPLAIN, step-by-step, to Vispero employees how to >>> **TURN ON Track CHANGES**, because they are so unfamiliar with this >>> concept that they don't even know how to do it. I do not have the >>> time to take on a second full-time job just so I can do my first one. >>> None of us do. This is utterly unacceptable. We need our leadership >>> to step in now. Stop bringing Microsoft to national conventions to >>> wax eloquent about how much they care about accessibility if in fact >>> they don't. If in fact they are committed to not assisting at all >>> with products that people still pay them to suppor, products that the >>> entire federal government uses, products that just ask the blind to >>> deal with it or risk losing their jobs. Stop touting Jaws as if it's >>> the best thing since sliced bread if, one week into the Supreme Court >>> term, I now effectively cannot do my job, no, not have a harder time >>> doing my job, but cannot do my job, because no one is testing this >>> stuff before updates are released. I am just incensed. >>> >>> I also need someone to test whether this problem is occurring on Beta >>> 2020 with Word 2016. I cannot get beta 2020 installed on my computer >>> here. But I need to verify whether it's fixed in that release. I >>> swear, if they try making me wait until December to fix this, I'm >>> going to need some major reinforcements. >>> >>> Now please excuse me while I quickly go angry cry in the bathroom, put >>> on my nice happy brave face again, and resign myself to spending >>> thrice as much time on my work as I needed to spend yesterday. Your >>> prayers are appreciated. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2157 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From angie.matney at gmail.com Fri Oct 11 22:25:26 2019 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 18:25:26 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7D64A0B0-F161-4563-AFF6-34AB662A89BA@gmail.com> > Laura, James is right—you are not alone. I have yet to send a document to Vispero, precisely for the reason that you identify: It takes so much time to come up with something that isn't full of sensitive information. I am a single parent with a big job, and I also don't have time to devote hours and hours to this. Having said that, I will do my best to come up with something I can send in the next few days. I do have one that illustrates problems with checkboxes in tables. I will send that too. > Angie > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 11, 2019, at 3:07 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw wrote: > > First of all, I'm just sick hearing about this and very sorry that you have to deal with all of this all over again. I also agree that Microsoft and Vespero should?? have their feet held to the fire, up to and including being uninvited from national conventions, if they continue to demonstrate this level of indifference toward our ability to do our jobs. > > Just a few questions: > > 1. What version of Office are you running? You mentioned 2016, so I assume you have that rather than 365. > > 2. I'd be happy to test the 2020 beta, but I'm running 365. I'm not sure how helpful that would be. > > 3. Have you tried NVDA? I have experienced fewer stability issues, but reviewing track changes is a more laborious process. I could be mistaken, but I do not know of any way to list all changes in NVDA, as is at least theoretically possible in Jaws. > > Again, I am very sorry that you are dealing with this. You are not alone in this struggle. We will get there somehow. > > > > On 10/11/2019 2:45 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > All, > > The nightmarish scenario of Jaws reading all material,both old and > new, in a track changed document seems to have arisen with a vengeance > as of the late September release. I have tried restarting jaws, > restarting the computer, refreshing the screen, and switching to no > markup. Nothing works. > > My ability to work quickly and reliably has just been ground to a > screeching halt. Why not simply migrate back to an earlier update, > you might ask? Well, my friends, it's because **that** update was > causing heavily track changed documents to crash as soon as the > document was opened. And how did Vispero come to know that fact? > Because they tested it and identified hhe problem and committed > themselves to fixing it as soon as possible? No, of course not. > Because my coworkers and I spent hours, literally hours, isolating the > problem, creating a test document with nonsensitive information that > replicated it, and sending it to them. I am truly at my whits end. I > am a fully-employed person with a disability working at one of the > most stressful and time consuming jobs in our profession. And yet, > here I am, using my work time to literally sit on the phone and > **explain**, yes, **EXPLAIN, step-by-step, to Vispero employees how to > **TURN ON Track CHANGES**, because they are so unfamiliar with this > concept that they don't even know how to do it. I do not have the > time to take on a second full-time job just so I can do my first one. > None of us do. This is utterly unacceptable. We need our leadership > to step in now. Stop bringing Microsoft to national conventions to > wax eloquent about how much they care about accessibility if in fact > they don't. If in fact they are committed to not assisting at all > with products that people still pay them to suppor, products that the > entire federal government uses, products that just ask the blind to > deal with it or risk losing their jobs. Stop touting Jaws as if it's > the best thing since sliced bread if, one week into the Supreme Court > term, I now effectively cannot do my job, no, not have a harder time > doing my job, but cannot do my job, because no one is testing this > stuff before updates are released. I am just incensed. > > I also need someone to test whether this problem is occurring on Beta > 2020 with Word 2016. I cannot get beta 2020 installed on my computer > here. But I need to verify whether it's fixed in that release. I > swear, if they try making me wait until December to fix this, I'm > going to need some major reinforcements. > > Now please excuse me while I quickly go angry cry in the bathroom, put > on my nice happy brave face again, and resign myself to spending > thrice as much time on my work as I needed to spend yesterday. Your > prayers are appreciated. > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > From laura.wolk at gmail.com Fri Oct 11 22:56:19 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 18:56:19 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 In-Reply-To: <7D64A0B0-F161-4563-AFF6-34AB662A89BA@gmail.com> References: <7D64A0B0-F161-4563-AFF6-34AB662A89BA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you so much, Angie! And I totally agree. If Vispero wants to use us as product developpers/testers, then they should pay us for it. I really appreciate the help, and for everyone's willingness to listen to my rant. On 10/11/19, Angie Matney via BlindLaw wrote: >> Laura, James is right—you are not alone. I have yet to send a document to >> Vispero, precisely for the reason that you identify: It takes so much time >> to come up with something that isn't full of sensitive information. I am a >> single parent with a big job, and I also don't have time to devote hours >> and hours to this. Having said that, I will do my best to come up with >> something I can send in the next few days. I do have one that illustrates >> problems with checkboxes in tables. I will send that too. >> Angie >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 11, 2019, at 3:07 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw >> wrote: >> >> First of all, I'm just sick hearing about this and very sorry that you >> have to deal with all of this all over again. I also agree that Microsoft >> and Vespero should?? have their feet held to the fire, up to and including >> being uninvited from national conventions, if they continue to demonstrate >> this level of indifference toward our ability to do our jobs. >> >> Just a few questions: >> >> 1. What version of Office are you running? You mentioned 2016, so I assume >> you have that rather than 365. >> >> 2. I'd be happy to test the 2020 beta, but I'm running 365. I'm not sure >> how helpful that would be. >> >> 3. Have you tried NVDA? I have experienced fewer stability issues, but >> reviewing track changes is a more laborious process. I could be mistaken, >> but I do not know of any way to list all changes in NVDA, as is at least >> theoretically possible in Jaws. >> >> Again, I am very sorry that you are dealing with this. You are not alone >> in this struggle. We will get there somehow. >> >> >> >> On 10/11/2019 2:45 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> All, >> >> The nightmarish scenario of Jaws reading all material,both old and >> new, in a track changed document seems to have arisen with a vengeance >> as of the late September release. I have tried restarting jaws, >> restarting the computer, refreshing the screen, and switching to no >> markup. Nothing works. >> >> My ability to work quickly and reliably has just been ground to a >> screeching halt. Why not simply migrate back to an earlier update, >> you might ask? Well, my friends, it's because **that** update was >> causing heavily track changed documents to crash as soon as the >> document was opened. And how did Vispero come to know that fact? >> Because they tested it and identified hhe problem and committed >> themselves to fixing it as soon as possible? No, of course not. >> Because my coworkers and I spent hours, literally hours, isolating the >> problem, creating a test document with nonsensitive information that >> replicated it, and sending it to them. I am truly at my whits end. I >> am a fully-employed person with a disability working at one of the >> most stressful and time consuming jobs in our profession. And yet, >> here I am, using my work time to literally sit on the phone and >> **explain**, yes, **EXPLAIN, step-by-step, to Vispero employees how to >> **TURN ON Track CHANGES**, because they are so unfamiliar with this >> concept that they don't even know how to do it. I do not have the >> time to take on a second full-time job just so I can do my first one. >> None of us do. This is utterly unacceptable. We need our leadership >> to step in now. Stop bringing Microsoft to national conventions to >> wax eloquent about how much they care about accessibility if in fact >> they don't. If in fact they are committed to not assisting at all >> with products that people still pay them to suppor, products that the >> entire federal government uses, products that just ask the blind to >> deal with it or risk losing their jobs. Stop touting Jaws as if it's >> the best thing since sliced bread if, one week into the Supreme Court >> term, I now effectively cannot do my job, no, not have a harder time >> doing my job, but cannot do my job, because no one is testing this >> stuff before updates are released. I am just incensed. >> >> I also need someone to test whether this problem is occurring on Beta >> 2020 with Word 2016. I cannot get beta 2020 installed on my computer >> here. But I need to verify whether it's fixed in that release. I >> swear, if they try making me wait until December to fix this, I'm >> going to need some major reinforcements. >> >> Now please excuse me while I quickly go angry cry in the bathroom, put >> on my nice happy brave face again, and resign myself to spending >> thrice as much time on my work as I needed to spend yesterday. Your >> prayers are appreciated. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > From amarjain at amarjain.com Sat Oct 12 03:11:57 2019 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 03:11:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindLaw] SOS --Need for Testing Beta 2020 and Microsoft 2016 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <891C8EFA1D3E9012.7385F8F2-C803-45C3-8723-A7E55ED5D690@mail.outlook.com> Pain well appreciated. Been there. Send the document if not resolved. I am working with Vispero and partners to fix these critical issues. I was facing same issue because of Windows Server 2016 and I have to force my IT to upgrade to latest Windows Server 2019. Skipping other emails as I just wanted to identify the original sender to see if I can be of any support. Thanks. Get Outlook for iOS On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 12:17 AM +0530, "Laura Wolk via BlindLaw" wrote: All, The nightmarish scenario of Jaws reading all material,both old and new, in a track changed document seems to have arisen with a vengeance as of the late September release. I have tried restarting jaws, restarting the computer, refreshing the screen, and switching to no markup. Nothing works. My ability to work quickly and reliably has just been ground to a screeching halt. Why not simply migrate back to an earlier update, you might ask? Well, my friends, it's because **that** update was causing heavily track changed documents to crash as soon as the document was opened. And how did Vispero come to know that fact? Because they tested it and identified hhe problem and committed themselves to fixing it as soon as possible? No, of course not. Because my coworkers and I spent hours, literally hours, isolating the problem, creating a test document with nonsensitive information that replicated it, and sending it to them. I am truly at my whits end. I am a fully-employed person with a disability working at one of the most stressful and time consuming jobs in our profession. And yet, here I am, using my work time to literally sit on the phone and **explain**, yes, **EXPLAIN, step-by-step, to Vispero employees how to **TURN ON Track CHANGES**, because they are so unfamiliar with this concept that they don't even know how to do it. I do not have the time to take on a second full-time job just so I can do my first one. None of us do. This is utterly unacceptable. We need our leadership to step in now. Stop bringing Microsoft to national conventions to wax eloquent about how much they care about accessibility if in fact they don't. If in fact they are committed to not assisting at all with products that people still pay them to suppor, products that the entire federal government uses, products that just ask the blind to deal with it or risk losing their jobs. Stop touting Jaws as if it's the best thing since sliced bread if, one week into the Supreme Court term, I now effectively cannot do my job, no, not have a harder time doing my job, but cannot do my job, because no one is testing this stuff before updates are released. I am just incensed. I also need someone to test whether this problem is occurring on Beta 2020 with Word 2016. I cannot get beta 2020 installed on my computer here. But I need to verify whether it's fixed in that release. I swear, if they try making me wait until December to fix this, I'm going to need some major reinforcements. Now please excuse me while I quickly go angry cry in the bathroom, put on my nice happy brave face again, and resign myself to spending thrice as much time on my work as I needed to spend yesterday. Your prayers are appreciated. _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com From rene0373 at gmail.com Thu Oct 17 19:45:57 2019 From: rene0373 at gmail.com (Elizabeth Rene) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:45:57 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] =?utf-8?q?iOS_13=3F_Don=E2=80=99t_do_it!?= Message-ID: <6CACDAD0-473B-44FB-BCF7-C4BC4B880391@gmail.com> hi list mates, Just a word to the wise. Apple has updated his iOS for iPad and iPhone introducing features that counsel out many important accessibility features. If you have low vision or use Braille, these bugs in the new operating system can significantly impede your work. I installed iOS 13.1.3 yesterday morning, and I am sadder and wiser for having done so. If you go to AppleVis.com, you will get a detailed description of the problems that now exist. Those articles refer to iOS 13.1.2, but the problems have not been resolved by iOS 13.1.3. If you have already installed any version of iOS 13 and are having problems, please contact Apple accessibility customer service at 877-204-3930 and report them. Or go to appleVis.com, sign in, and make a comment. That is the only way that Apple software engineers will know the extent to which our community is negatively impacted by the new update, According to Apple’s accessibility technicians. Good luck, Elizabeth Elizabeth M René Attorney at Law WSBA #10710 KCBA #21824 rene0373 at gmail.com From keribcu at gmail.com Fri Oct 18 02:55:01 2019 From: keribcu at gmail.com (Keri Svendsen) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 22:55:01 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] seeking any blind individuals that have worked in the prison system Message-ID: Good evening all, I am reaching out to see if anyone on the list or knows of someone who has worked in the prison system as a blind individual. I am looking to speak to others who have braved this line of work. I can be reached off list at keribcu at gmail.com -- Keri Svendsen From souljourner at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 18 03:13:30 2019 From: souljourner at sbcglobal.net (Susan Tabor) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 22:13:30 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] seeking any blind individuals that have worked in the prison system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001001d58562$04eb33f0$0ec19bd0$@sbcglobal.net> Hi, Keri: My background is in social work. I worked as the chaplain for our county jail here for 7 years. I have also helped to plan and implement spiritual retreats for prisoners in the Federal prison system from time to time. Let me know if you might find my experience helpful to you. Thanks! Warmest Regards, Susan Tabor -----Original Message----- From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Keri Svendsen via BlindLaw Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 9:55 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Keri Svendsen Subject: [blindLaw] seeking any blind individuals that have worked in the prison system Good evening all, I am reaching out to see if anyone on the list or knows of someone who has worked in the prison system as a blind individual. I am looking to speak to others who have braved this line of work. I can be reached off list at keribcu at gmail.com -- Keri Svendsen _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/souljourner%40sbcgloba l.net From tim at timeldermusic.com Fri Oct 18 17:31:07 2019 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (tim at timeldermusic.com) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 10:31:07 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] =?utf-8?q?iOS_13=3F_Don=E2=80=99t_do_it!?= In-Reply-To: <6CACDAD0-473B-44FB-BCF7-C4BC4B880391@gmail.com> References: <6CACDAD0-473B-44FB-BCF7-C4BC4B880391@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01fc01d585d9$de756290$9b6027b0$@timeldermusic.com> Every blind attorney should have two computer systems and two mobile devices. One is set to not auto update and remains the stable primary work station. The second test backup system is updated to the version just behind the latest version, i.e. iOS 12.X. This ensures you can test stuff before breaking your main work environment. I don't ever recommend running the latest version of an OS regardless of what the marketing people at Microsoft and Apple say. MY opinion is that Windows 7 and iOS 12 or earlier still provide better accessibility than more recent versions. As attorneys, we rarely need the extra features that come in the latest version. I'm still regretting some instability in Windows 10. -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Rene Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 12:46 PM To: NFB Of Washington ; blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindLaw] iOS 13? Don’t do it! hi list mates, Just a word to the wise. Apple has updated his iOS for iPad and iPhone introducing features that counsel out many important accessibility features. If you have low vision or use Braille, these bugs in the new operating system can significantly impede your work. I installed iOS 13.1.3 yesterday morning, and I am sadder and wiser for having done so. If you go to AppleVis.com, you will get a detailed description of the problems that now exist. Those articles refer to iOS 13.1.2, but the problems have not been resolved by iOS 13.1.3. If you have already installed any version of iOS 13 and are having problems, please contact Apple accessibility customer service at 877-204-3930 and report them. Or go to appleVis.com, sign in, and make a comment. That is the only way that Apple software engineers will know the extent to which our community is negatively impacted by the new update, According to Apple’s accessibility technicians. Good luck, Elizabeth Elizabeth M René Attorney at Law WSBA #10710 KCBA #21824 rene0373 at gmail.com From amatney at loeb.com Fri Oct 18 17:40:41 2019 From: amatney at loeb.com (Angela Matney) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 17:40:41 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] =?utf-8?q?iOS_13=3F_Don=E2=80=99t_do_it!?= In-Reply-To: <01fc01d585d9$de756290$9b6027b0$@timeldermusic.com> References: <6CACDAD0-473B-44FB-BCF7-C4BC4B880391@gmail.com> <01fc01d585d9$de756290$9b6027b0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <1BAC65FD6F6D1140A9F58F9D21A1A5392470126A@SM-EXMAIL03.loeb.com> Our IT staff recently sent out another memo as to why they don’t recommend updating to iOS 13 at this time. One reason is that if an email is attached to another email, the attached email can’t be read (or at least sometimes can’t be read) in iOS 13. I have regrettably had this experience on my personal phone. And this recommendation is firm-wide, having nothing to do with accessibility. I often get emails with attached emails, and it boggles the mind that these are unreadable in iOS 13. Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb LLP] Loeb and Loeb LLP 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001 Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 | E-mail:amatney at loeb.com Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP. ________________________________ From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Tim Elder via BlindLaw Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 1:31 PM To: 'Elizabeth Rene' ; 'NFB Of Washington' ; blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: tim at timeldermusic.com Subject: Re: [blindLaw] iOS 13? Don’t do it! Every blind attorney should have two computer systems and two mobile devices. One is set to not auto update and remains the stable primary work station. The second test backup system is updated to the version just behind the latest version, i.e. iOS 12.X. This ensures you can test stuff before breaking your main work environment. I don't ever recommend running the latest version of an OS regardless of what the marketing people at Microsoft and Apple say. MY opinion is that Windows 7 and iOS 12 or earlier still provide better accessibility than more recent versions. As attorneys, we rarely need the extra features that come in the latest version. I'm still regretting some instability in Windows 10. -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Rene > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 12:46 PM To: NFB Of Washington >; blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindLaw] iOS 13? Don’t do it! hi list mates, Just a word to the wise. Apple has updated his iOS for iPad and iPhone introducing features that counsel out many important accessibility features. If you have low vision or use Braille, these bugs in the new operating system can significantly impede your work. I installed iOS 13.1.3 yesterday morning, and I am sadder and wiser for having done so. If you go to AppleVis.com, you will get a detailed description of the problems that now exist. Those articles refer to iOS 13.1.2, but the problems have not been resolved by iOS 13.1.3. If you have already installed any version of iOS 13 and are having problems, please contact Apple accessibility customer service at 877-204-3930 and report them. Or go to appleVis.com, sign in, and make a comment. That is the only way that Apple software engineers will know the extent to which our community is negatively impacted by the new update, According to Apple’s accessibility technicians. Good luck, Elizabeth Elizabeth M René Attorney at Law WSBA #10710 KCBA #21824 rene0373 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ BlindLaw mailing list BlindLaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40loeb.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2157 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Oct 18 17:48:31 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 11:48:31 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008b01d585dc$4211cda0$c63568e0$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 6:15 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Good morning, Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. Please post on your internal sites and distribute to any interested audience, including law student organizations and other affinity groups. The Department of Justice office places a high value on diversity of experiences and perspectives and encourages applications from all qualified men and women from all ethnic and racial backgrounds, veterans, LGBT individuals, and persons with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. In addition to the below job opportunities, the United States Trustee Program is accepting applications for the position of U.S. Trustee for Region 9 in Cleveland, OH. For more information on how to apply, please see https://www.justice.gov/ust/file/region9ustjobannouncement.pdf/download. Attorney Vacancies & Volunteer Legal Internships Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Kentucky Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer State Kentucky Posted/ Updated October 18, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Kentucky Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer State Kentucky Posted/ Updated October 18, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Kentucky Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer State Kentucky Posted/ Updated October 18, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of California Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State California Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of California Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State California Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of New Mexico Job Title Assistant United States Attorney (Appellate) State New Mexico Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title ASSISTANT UNITED STATES TRUSTEE (AUST) State Virginia Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Assistant United States Trustee (AUST) State Arkansas Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Wisconsin Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer State Wisconsin Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Wisconsin Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Academic Year State Wisconsin Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Trial Attorney State California Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Trial Attorney State California Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Trial Attorney State Nevada Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020, Organized Crime and Gang Section State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Academic Year, Capital Case Section State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020, Appellate Section State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020, Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020, Narcotic and Dangerous Drug Section, State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization Civil Division (CIV) Job Title Attorney Advisor (Director of Training), Civil Division State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Vermont Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer State Vermont Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of Iowa Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Iowa Posted/ Updated October 17, 2019 Hiring Organization Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) Job Title Supervisory Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 16, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Western District of Pennsylvania Job Title Special Assistant United States Attorney State Pennsylvania Posted/ Updated October 16, 2019 Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Trial Attorney State New York Posted/ Updated October 16, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Hawaii Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer State Hawaii Posted/ Updated October 16, 2019 Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization Civil Rights Division (CRT) Job Title Trial Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 16, 2019 Hiring Organization Environment and Natural Resources Division (ENRD) Job Title Trial Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 15, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of California Job Title Lead Strike Force Attorney State California Posted/ Updated October 11, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of the Solicitor General (OSG) Job Title Experienced Trial Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 11, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Guam & Northern Mariana Islands Job Title Attorney State Posted/ Updated October 10, Manage Your Email: If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. If you would like to update your contact information, please submit the following information: SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Fri Oct 18 18:38:05 2019 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:38:05 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] iOS 13? Don't do it! In-Reply-To: <01fc01d585d9$de756290$9b6027b0$@timeldermusic.com> References: <6CACDAD0-473B-44FB-BCF7-C4BC4B880391@gmail.com> <01fc01d585d9$de756290$9b6027b0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <026801d585e3$2ea19730$8be4c590$@com> Tim, I share the same view as yours! I don't update/upgrade anything just because the moon shone too bright and light sensitivity make my eyes tear up uncontrollably. I update/upgrade only when necessary and badly needed. Heck, I still run Windows XP Professional on three Windows boxes and I don't have problems surfing the Internet with each one. In my Windows7 Professional box, I still use Internet Explorer with no problems of any kind. I DO NOT HAVE a Windows10 box and I won't miss not having one after January 2020 when Windows7 will be finally crucified never to rise again. For all intense purposes, I want to DITCH WINDOWS for good and ONLY RUN with my Shiny Android Toys! Why? My preferred screen reader, Window-Eyes, is dead and will never be updated. It still works for me even now but, if I can avoid Jaws headaches, I'll sleep well! Of course I can use Jaws efficiently, but it has never been my preferred screen reader. So, what's the hold up with my plan to ditch Windows? I can't GENERATE ASCII CHARACTERS using a regular keyboard in Androidville. I'm hoping this gets sorted out soonest and then I'll be done with Windows computers forever. Sorry, no iOS anything for me; I DO NOT LIKE proprietary stuff; Android gives me unfettered freedom including easy cinching with a Windows box without the need for a middleware app. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From keribcu at gmail.com Mon Oct 21 21:16:47 2019 From: keribcu at gmail.com (Keri Svendsen) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 17:16:47 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] seeking any blind individuals that have worked in the prison system In-Reply-To: <001001d58562$04eb33f0$0ec19bd0$@sbcglobal.net> References: <001001d58562$04eb33f0$0ec19bd0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <8228d3e3-17c8-6229-91c0-ed093ce5ec42@gmail.com> Susan, I'd love to have a discussion with you. could you email me off list? keribcu at gmail.com On 10/17/2019 11:13 PM, Susan Tabor via BlindLaw wrote: > Hi, Keri: > > My background is in social work. I worked as the chaplain for our county > jail here for 7 years. I have also helped to plan and implement spiritual > retreats for prisoners in the Federal prison system from time to time. Let > me know if you might find my experience helpful to you. Thanks! > Warmest Regards, > Susan Tabor > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf Of Keri Svendsen via > BlindLaw > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 9:55 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri Svendsen > Subject: [blindLaw] seeking any blind individuals that have worked in the > prison system > > Good evening all, > > I am reaching out to see if anyone on the list or knows of someone who has > worked in the prison system as a blind individual. I am looking to speak to > others who have braved this line of work. I can be reached off list at > > keribcu at gmail.com > > -- > Keri Svendsen > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/souljourner%40sbcgloba > l.net > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com -- Keri Svendsen From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Mon Oct 21 23:45:30 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 19:45:30 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Transcription software Message-ID: <6F5AE636-90B4-4CB0-AE82-788F666412E8@gmail.com> Hello everyone, I am in the market for software which one can feed recordings through and receive a reasonably good transcript on the other side. Of course, free is preferable. I am doing a series of qualitative interviews as the data collection portion of my masters degree. I’m thinking transcripts would help for working with the information. Thank you for any leads you may have. Sincerely, Maura Kutnyak 716-563-9882 From philosopher25 at gmail.com Tue Oct 22 04:29:34 2019 From: philosopher25 at gmail.com (philosopher25 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 21:29:34 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Transcription software In-Reply-To: <6F5AE636-90B4-4CB0-AE82-788F666412E8@gmail.com> References: <6F5AE636-90B4-4CB0-AE82-788F666412E8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1DC5A6B0-300D-47B8-AAEB-384F12DD5E0A@gmail.com> I suggest dragon dictate. BruceSexton, JD Dictated on an accessible device. > On Oct 21, 2019, at 4:45 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I am in the market for software which one can feed recordings through and receive a reasonably good transcript on the other side. > > Of course, free is preferable. I am doing a series of qualitative interviews as the data collection portion of my masters degree. I’m thinking transcripts would help for working with the information. > > Thank you for any leads you may have. > > Sincerely, > > Maura Kutnyak > 716-563-9882 > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/philosopher25%40gmail.com From davant1958 at gmail.com Tue Oct 22 12:52:56 2019 From: davant1958 at gmail.com (davant1958 at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 07:52:56 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Staff Attorney 2 job announcement In-Reply-To: <548184a89cd99836da15f4848.ab91b6a2b6.20191017191156.071fe40f99.d84bbeaf@mail204.suw16.rsgsv.net> References: <548184a89cd99836da15f4848.ab91b6a2b6.20191017191156.071fe40f99.d84bbeaf@mail204.suw16.rsgsv.net> Message-ID: <1caf01d588d7$a0c83840$e258a8c0$@gmail.com> FYI. Denise R. Avant, Esq. President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois 773-991-8050 Live the life you want. For more information about NFBI, Go to www.nfbofillinois.org From: ABA Center on Children and the Law Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 2:12 PM To: Davant1958 at gmail.com Subject: Staff Attorney 2 job announcement View this email in your browser We’re growing our National Court Projects team! We are seeking to fill two new, full-time, Staff Attorney 2 positions as part of our Capacity Building Center for Courts in the National Court projects area. These attorneys will conduct substantive child welfare legal work for the Center’s grant funded projects. The role will include provision of technical assistance with state courts to manage a structured approach to system improvement including the implementation and evaluation of child welfare legal system reform efforts throughout the country. The positions require a JD, admission to the bar, and at least 4 years working in the relevant specialized area of law. More Details Apply Now! About the Center on Children and the Law You are receiving this message because you previously subscribed to Center communications or because of your relationship with the Center. To be removed from the mailing list, or to add others, please email joanne.correira at americanbar.org ABA Center on Children and the Law 1050 Connecticut Avenue, Suite 400, Washington, DC 20036 www.americanbar.org /child, 202/662-1724 Want to change how you receive these emails? Update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4550 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15242 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image007.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 359 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 01:30:04 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 21:30:04 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Transcription software In-Reply-To: <03a301d58910$613dcda0$23b968e0$@gmail.com> References: <6F5AE636-90B4-4CB0-AE82-788F666412E8@gmail.com> <03a301d58910$613dcda0$23b968e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <65CAD9C5-4A64-4CDD-A46F-98C6AAC0EF5F@gmail.com> Thank you both, Luis, The pleasure was all mine. I am so glad that we got to talk more this year than last. Your Quiet insistence about Cornell was bolstering. And, I greatly enjoyed our conversations. I found an app which will transform my recordings to documents for about $3.00 per hour. More than I want to spend but not prohibitively so. Warmly, Maura > On Oct 22, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Luis Mendez wrote: > > Good afternoon: > > It was a pleasure to be able to chat with you face-to-face at the N.F.B.N.Y. Convention. Once again congratulations on being a State scholarship recipient. > > While Dragon Dictate is not transcription software it can certainly be used to generate interview transcripts. My recommendation is that should you consider investing in Dragon Dictate, purchase the professional version. It usually retails for around $300.00, but Nuance often runs sales and often discounts the price by at least 50%. > > Below is a link to review of transcription software that you might find useful. No matter what software you select, I agree, that the dictation source should be accessible. > > https://www.scriptosphere.com/transcription-speech-recognition/#content > > Luis > > -----Original Message----- > From: BlindLaw On Behalf of Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 7:46 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: Maura Kutnyak > Subject: [blindLaw] Transcription software > > Hello everyone, > > I am in the market for software which one can feed recordings through and receive a reasonably good transcript on the other side. > > Of course, free is preferable. I am doing a series of qualitative interviews as the data collection portion of my masters degree. I’m thinking transcripts would help for working with the information. > > Thank you for any leads you may have. > > Sincerely, > > Maura Kutnyak > 716-563-9882 > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmendez716%40gmail.com > From dennis at dgclark.net Wed Oct 23 01:47:13 2019 From: dennis at dgclark.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 18:47:13 -0700 Subject: [blindLaw] Transcription software In-Reply-To: <65CAD9C5-4A64-4CDD-A46F-98C6AAC0EF5F@gmail.com> References: <6F5AE636-90B4-4CB0-AE82-788F666412E8@gmail.com> <03a301d58910$613dcda0$23b968e0$@gmail.com> <65CAD9C5-4A64-4CDD-A46F-98C6AAC0EF5F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8152dc9a-3ceb-0e95-39e9-3283818704c3@dgclark.net> Hello Maura, I am also interested in software that can convert audio files into text. Can you tell me which software you located that will perform this task for $3 per hour? Thanks for your assistance. Dennis On 10/22/2019 6:30 PM, Maura via BlindLaw wrote: > Thank you both, Luis, The pleasure was all mine. I am so glad that we got to talk more this year than last. Your Quiet insistence about Cornell was bolstering. And, I greatly enjoyed our conversations. > > I found an app which will transform my recordings to documents for about $3.00 per hour. More than I want to spend but not prohibitively so. > > Warmly, > > Maura > >> On Oct 22, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Luis Mendez wrote: >> >> Good afternoon: >> >> It was a pleasure to be able to chat with you face-to-face at the N.F.B.N.Y. Convention. Once again congratulations on being a State scholarship recipient. >> >> While Dragon Dictate is not transcription software it can certainly be used to generate interview transcripts. My recommendation is that should you consider investing in Dragon Dictate, purchase the professional version. It usually retails for around $300.00, but Nuance often runs sales and often discounts the price by at least 50%. >> >> Below is a link to review of transcription software that you might find useful. No matter what software you select, I agree, that the dictation source should be accessible. >> >> https://www.scriptosphere.com/transcription-speech-recognition/#content >> >> Luis >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BlindLaw On Behalf of Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 7:46 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: Maura Kutnyak >> Subject: [blindLaw] Transcription software >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> I am in the market for software which one can feed recordings through and receive a reasonably good transcript on the other side. >> >> Of course, free is preferable. I am doing a series of qualitative interviews as the data collection portion of my masters degree. I’m thinking transcripts would help for working with the information. >> >> Thank you for any leads you may have. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Maura Kutnyak >> 716-563-9882 >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmendez716%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgclark.net From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 02:06:00 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 22:06:00 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Transcription software In-Reply-To: <8152dc9a-3ceb-0e95-39e9-3283818704c3@dgclark.net> References: <6F5AE636-90B4-4CB0-AE82-788F666412E8@gmail.com> <03a301d58910$613dcda0$23b968e0$@gmail.com> <65CAD9C5-4A64-4CDD-A46F-98C6AAC0EF5F@gmail.com> <8152dc9a-3ceb-0e95-39e9-3283818704c3@dgclark.net> Message-ID: Hello Dennis, I came across a program on the app store through my phone. It is an iPhone. It is called, Transcribe. If you buy a 10 hour package at $29.99 then you get the documents for aproximitly 3 per hour. Barring purchase of the package the app lists the cost as $4.99 per. This program meets my specific needs as I have recordings of interviews which can be loaded directly into the program and converted. Sincerely, Maura . > On Oct 22, 2019, at 9:47 PM, Dennis Clark via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hello Maura, > > I am also interested in software that can convert audio files into text. Can you tell me which software you located that will perform this task for $3 per hour? Thanks for your assistance. > > Dennis > > > On 10/22/2019 6:30 PM, Maura via BlindLaw wrote: >> Thank you both, Luis, The pleasure was all mine. I am so glad that we got to talk more this year than last. Your Quiet insistence about Cornell was bolstering. And, I greatly enjoyed our conversations. >> >> I found an app which will transform my recordings to documents for about $3.00 per hour. More than I want to spend but not prohibitively so. >> >> Warmly, >> >> Maura >> >>> On Oct 22, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Luis Mendez wrote: >>> >>> Good afternoon: >>> >>> It was a pleasure to be able to chat with you face-to-face at the N.F.B.N.Y. Convention. Once again congratulations on being a State scholarship recipient. >>> >>> While Dragon Dictate is not transcription software it can certainly be used to generate interview transcripts. My recommendation is that should you consider investing in Dragon Dictate, purchase the professional version. It usually retails for around $300.00, but Nuance often runs sales and often discounts the price by at least 50%. >>> >>> Below is a link to review of transcription software that you might find useful. No matter what software you select, I agree, that the dictation source should be accessible. >>> >>> https://www.scriptosphere.com/transcription-speech-recognition/#content >>> >>> Luis >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BlindLaw On Behalf of Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw >>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 7:46 PM >>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> Cc: Maura Kutnyak >>> Subject: [blindLaw] Transcription software >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I am in the market for software which one can feed recordings through and receive a reasonably good transcript on the other side. >>> >>> Of course, free is preferable. I am doing a series of qualitative interviews as the data collection portion of my masters degree. I’m thinking transcripts would help for working with the information. >>> >>> Thank you for any leads you may have. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Maura Kutnyak >>> 716-563-9882 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmendez716%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgclark.net > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Oct 23 15:28:31 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:28:31 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] Columbia Legal Services is hiring Message-ID: From: Trisa Kern Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 7:55 AM To: Diversity Stakeholders Subject: [diversity-stakeholders] CLS is hiring CLS is hiring a Staff Attorney in Seattle, with a priority given to those that apply before November 8th, and is still accepting applications for a Staff Attorney in Olympia. Trisa Kern, Director of Operations [cid:image002.jpg at 01D5882C.9DDFB500]Phone: (206) 287-8614 Email:trisa.kern at columbialegal.org Address:101 Yesler Way, Suite 300|Seattle, WA 98104 Connect with us:www.columbialegal.org [cid:image003.png at 01D5881E.2B032340] [cid:image004.png at 01D5881E.2B032340] [cid:image005.png at 01D5881E.2B032340] [cid:image006.png at 01D5881E.2B032340] Our vision of justice: A Washington State in which every person enjoys full human rights and economic opportunities. [cid:image008.jpg at 01D5882C.9DDFB500] Join us for an evening of hope and inspiration October 16, 2019 | 5:00 pm |Impact Hub Seattle TICKETS CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This communication and attachments may contain privileged or confidential information. If you feel you have received this message in error, please alert me of that fact and then delete it. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of this communication by someone other than the intended recipient. --- You are currently subscribed to diversity-stakeholders as: noel.nightingale at ed.gov. To unsubscribe click here: http://list.wsba.org/u?id=9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389&n=T&l=diversity-stakeholders&o=1136630 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-1136630-9689257.98490556339430b43adf9753d1310389 at list.wsba.org If you have any questions, or wish to change your email address, please contact the WSBA List Administrator. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3948 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 646 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 674 bytes Desc: image004.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.png Type: image/png Size: 841 bytes Desc: image005.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.png Type: image/png Size: 697 bytes Desc: image006.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3119 bytes Desc: image008.jpg URL: From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu Oct 24 16:33:49 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:33:49 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Submit a Workshop Proposal - 2020 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <20191024154506.DF65861E683F@lx-web-pri.nfb.org> References: <20191024154506.DF65861E683F@lx-web-pri.nfb.org> Message-ID: <012201d58a88$d0fa5630$72ef0290$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: Lou Ann Blake Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2019 9:45 AM To: Mr. Scott LaBarre Subject: Submit a Workshop Proposal - 2020 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Submit Proposal by October 31! Conduct a Plenary Session or Facilitate a Workshop at Law Symposium 2020 JACOBUS TENBROEK DISABILITY LAW SYMPOSIUM “Race, Diversity, and Inclusion and the Right to Live in the World” March 26-27, 2020 National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, MD Submit now to present during a plenary session or facilitate a workshop on one or more of the topics below. Proposed plenary sessions should include no more than two speakers, and proposed workshops should include no more than three facilitators. We strive to provide diverse and inclusive programming, so please consider how your presentation will encourage the exchange of differing ideas, experiences, and perspectives. Those with lived experience relevant to a topic are encouraged to be included in proposals as plenary speakers and/or workshop facilitators, or to submit their own proposal. Submission Deadline All plenary and workshop proposals are due via email to Stacie Dubnow by Thursday, October 31, 2019. The symposium’s steering committee will notify individuals who submitted a proposal of its decision by November 15, 2019. 2020 Symposium Topics The broad topics for the 2020 symposium will be: * Mental Health and Inequity: Advocating for the Rights of Clients with Mental Health and Intellectual Disabilities in and out of the Courthouse * Disaster Preparedness and Response—Strategies for Combatting Disparate Impact on Disabled People * Acknowledging and Combatting Overlapping Identity Discrimination in the Disability Rights Community * How to Effectively Represent a Plaintiff with Mental Illness and/or Intellectual Disability * Use of Restraint and Seclusion on Children with Disabilities in the Classroom * Disability Rights in Sexual and Reproductive Healthcare * Geography and Disability: Strategies for Addressing Barriers to Disability Rights in Rural Communities * A Disability Rights Lawyer’s Secret Weapon—Administrative Law * Managing Supported Decision Making for a Client with Developmental Disabilities * The Decline in the Employment of People with Disabilities—the Response of the Disability Rights Community * Racial and Cultural Bias among the Disabled in the Educational and Juvenile Justice System * Legal Strategies to Combat the Criminalization and Marginalization of Transgender Individuals with Disability * Disability in the Muslim Community * Housing Discrimination Against Persons with Intellectual Disability * Public Insults * Working Effectively to Communicate with and Protect the Rights of Disabled Immigrants * Update on Compelled Arbitration in Disability Rights Cases * Understanding and Addressing Disability in Native American Communities * How to Prepare a Successful Disability Discrimination Claim against an Employer * Race and Gender Issues in the Civil Commitment Process * Protecting the Rights of the LGBTQ Members of Our Disability Rights Community * Barriers to Equal Access to Transportation Experienced by Travelers with Disabilities * A Year in Review: Key Disability Rights Cases and What They Mean Moving Forward * Social Security Disability Insurance—the Ins and Outs of Advocating for Our Clients * Advising Your Client on the Taxation of Settlements and Judgments in Disability Rights Cases * Advocating for Residents with Disabilities in Nursing Homes How to Apply Email a one-page plenary session/workshop proposal on or before October 31, 2019, that includes the following information: 1. Name of presenter(s) and organization(s) 2. Contact telephone number and email address 3. Plenary session/workshop title 4. Description of the plenary session/workshop, including its main goals, the relevancy and timeliness of the topics/issues to be addressed, whether you have presented the workshop before, and how the speakers/facilitators/topics/issues will enhance the diversity and inclusiveness of the symposium 5. Please attach a current CV and bio (if available) for each presenter Additional Information The National Federation of the Blind is committed to providing a harassment-free, welcoming symposium experience for everyone, regardless of race, creed, color, religion, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, national origin, citizenship, marital status, age, genetic information, disability, or any other characteristic or intersectionality of characteristics. See the NFB Code of Conduct and Diversity Policy . Visit the NFB.org for updated information on registration and hotel information. National Federation of the Blind | 200 E Wells Street | Baltimore, MD 21230 | 410-659-9314 Unsubscribe | Opt Out | Sign Up for Our E-newsletter 200 E WELLS ST BALTIMORE, MD 21230-4850 United States .. From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Thu Oct 24 17:35:50 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:35:50 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] Case management for Prosecutors Message-ID: My DA’s office is looking to replace its case management system, because it is extremely outdated and totally inaccessible. The two options they are currently looking at are Karpel Solutions and Legal Edge. Does anyone know anything about these companies and whether they produce accessible products Sent from my iPhone From mnowicki4 at iCloud.com Thu Oct 24 20:31:03 2019 From: mnowicki4 at iCloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 15:31:03 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Visiting DC in December Message-ID: Hello Listmates, I want to let you all know that I will be in DC the weekend of December 7 for another work event. Taking advantage of this opportunity, I am reaching out to see if any of you who live or otherwise plan to be in DC that weekend would be interested in getting together for dinner on Friday, December 6. We had a great time when we met in June, and I’m sure we will likewise enjoy catching up in December. Best, Michal Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From sai at fiatfiendum.org Fri Oct 25 12:03:05 2019 From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:03:05 +0100 Subject: [blindLaw] Autohotkeys for lawyers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Updated! * Added stand-alone executable version: Download & run that and it should “Just Work™”. (Those were "smart" quotes I just typed using right alt + shift + left/right square bracket. ¡You can too!) * Made all modifiers use RIGHT alt only, to not interfere with hotkeys in programs that use alt-something. You can now use those with left alt, and use right alt for key modifiers. * Added non-breaking space (right alt + space) (used after e.g. section marks, like 42 U.S.C. § 1983, so there won't be a line break after §) and full width low line ＿ (right alt + shift + space) (used e.g. for citations TBD, like ＿ F.3d. ＿) * Added ∫∂ƒ©˙°µ˜ß†◊„≈¥…≤¯≥ * Made alt-shift disablement more targeted. It's still at , with updated instructions. Hopefully this makes legal drafting easier for y'all. Sincerely, Sai President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc., a 501(c)(3) PS Non-gendered pronouns please. NSA et al: I'm a US citizen. On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 3:01 PM Sai wrote: > > I've made an autohotkeys script that may help y'all. > > It provides OSX-style hotkeys in Windows - e.g. section, pilcrow, > dagger, en/em dash, etc are all easily available to type, with no need > to memorize alt-number combinations. > > So are explicit left and right "smart" quote marks (single & double). > > > Instructions: > > https://github.com/saizai/autohotkeys_for_lawyers/ > > Autohotkey file: > > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/saizai/autohotkeys_for_lawyers/master/autohotkeys_for_lawyers.ahk > > > > I'll finish it at some point to add the remaining OSX ABC Extended > Keyboard hotkeys, and to add in some extra hotkeys useful for lawyers > (like nonbreaking space). > > Please let me know if there are any issues using it together with > NVDA, Narrator, or JAWS, and what keys (other than nonbreaking space) > you'd want to be added to the next version. > > In the meantime, I hope it's helpful. > > Sincerely, > Sai > President, Fiat Fiendum, Inc., a 501(c)(3) > > PS Non-gendered pronouns please. NSA et al: I'm a US citizen. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Oct 25 12:55:55 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:55:55 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000501d58b33$8a6426f0$9f2c74d0$@labarrelaw.com> Happy Friday everyone! Here are the weekly DOJ announcements. From: DOJlawjobs (OARM) Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 6:34 AM To: Undisclosed recipients: Subject: Attorney and Legal Internship Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Good morning, Below is a list of current attorney and legal internship vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice. Please post on your internal sites and distribute to any interested audience, including law student organizations and other affinity groups. The Department of Justice office places a high value on diversity of experiences and perspectives and encourages applications from all qualified men and women from all ethnic and racial backgrounds, veterans, LGBT individuals, and persons with disabilities. We welcome applications from candidates who are interested in positively contributing to Justice and hope that you will consider joining the dedicated public servants at the Department of Justice. To learn more about Justice and our legal careers, please visit our website at https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers. In addition to the below job opportunities, the United States Trustee Program is accepting applications for the position of U.S. Trustee for Region 9 in Cleveland, OH. For more information on how to apply, please see https://www.justice.gov/ust/file/region9ustjobannouncement.pdf/download. Attorney Vacancies & Volunteer Legal Internships Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization USAO Eastern District of Michigan Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020 State Michigan Posted/ Updated October 25, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of Illinois Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020 State Illinois Posted/ Updated October 24, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Colorado Job Title Assistant United States Attorney - Civil State Colorado Posted/ Updated October 24, 2019 Hiring Organization Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Job Title Law Student Volunteer State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 24, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of Justice Programs (OJP) Job Title Volunteer Legal Intern, Office of Justice Programs, SMART Office (Summer 2020) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 24, 2019 Hiring Organization Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Job Title Attorney Advisor (Litigation Division) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 24, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of Justice Programs (OJP) Job Title Volunteer Legal Intern, Office of Justice Programs, SMART Office (Academic Year 2020/2021) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 24, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of Justice Programs (OJP) Job Title Volunteer Legal Intern, Office of Justice Programs, OCR (Summer 2020) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 24, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of Justice Programs (OJP) Job Title Volunteer Legal Intern, Office of Justice Programs, OCR (Academic Year 2020/2021) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 24, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of Illinois Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020 State Illinois Posted/ Updated October 23, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Northern District of Ohio Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020 State Ohio Posted/ Updated October 23, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Arizona Job Title Summer 2020, Criminal Division, Law Extern State Arizona Posted/ Updated October 23, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Arizona Job Title Spring 2020, Criminal Division, Law Extern State Arizona Posted/ Updated October 23, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of Legislative Affairs (OLA) Job Title Attorney Advisor (Hillside) State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 23, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Kansas Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Kansas Posted/ Updated October 23, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Middle District of Georgia Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020 State Georgia Posted/ Updated October 22, 2019 Hiring Organization National Security Division (NSD) Job Title Law Student Volunteer State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 22, 2019 Hiring Organization National Security Division (NSD) Job Title Legal Student Volunteer State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 22, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Nevada Job Title Assistant U.S. Attorney State Nevada Posted/ Updated October 22, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of Privacy and Civil Liberties (OPCL) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Summer 2020 State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 21, 2019 Hiring Organization Office of Privacy and Civil Liberties (OPCL) Job Title Law Student Volunteer, Spring 2020 State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 21, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Columbia Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 21, 2019 Hiring Organization Civil Division (CIV) Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Washington Posted/ Updated October 21, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO Southern District of West Virginia Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State West Virginia Posted/ Updated October 21, 2019 Hiring Organization USAO District of Colorado Job Title Volunteer Law Student, Summer 2020 State Colorado Posted/ Updated October 21, 2019 Hiring Organization Job Title State Posted/ Updated Hiring Organization United States Trustee Program (USTP) Job Title Assistant United States Trustee (AUST) State Arkansas Posted/ Updated October 21, 2019 Hiring Organization Civil Rights Division (CRT) Job Title Trial Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 21, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Trial Attorney State District of Columbia Posted/ Updated October 21, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Assistant United States Attorney State Washington Posted/ Updated October 20, 2019 Hiring Organization Criminal Division (CRM) Job Title Attorney Advisor (International)/ Resident Legal Advisor, Sri Lanka State Posted/ Updated October 18, Manage Your Email: If you no longer wish to receive these email notifications, please reply to this email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. If you would like to update your contact information, please submit the following information: SCHOOL OR ORGANIZATION: NAME: TITLE: PHONE: EMAIL: WEBSITE: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 88 bytes Desc: not available URL: From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Oct 25 15:21:18 2019 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 09:21:18 -0600 Subject: [blindLaw] FW: New Career Opportunity in the Trial Court - October 25, 2019 In-Reply-To: <1133426134867.1116406273370.1470612392.0.401030JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com> References: <1133426134867.1116406273370.1470612392.0.401030JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com> Message-ID: <00af01d58b47$d9d4f9d0$8d7eed70$@labarrelaw.com> fyi From: Trial Court Communications Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 8:30 AM To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com Subject: New Career Opportunity in the Trial Court - October 25, 2019 NEW CAREER OPPORTUNITIES OUR MISSION The Trial Court is committed to providing equal access to justice for all who use the Commonwealth’s courts; to the efficient and effective administration of justice and the fair and impartial resolution of disputes; to the protection of constitutional and statutory rights and liberties; to prompt and courteous service to the public by committed and dedicated professional employees utilizing best practices in a manner that inspires public trust and confidence. JOIN OUR TEAM Thank you for your interest in the Massachusetts Trial Court and Appeals Court . Please share the following Massachusetts Trial Court career opportunities with your organization. Click Below to view all current Job Postings and instructions on how to apply! Visit our website Please note the Trial Court has an online application process. Paper, faxed, or emailed applications or resumes are not accepted. The Massachusetts Judicial Branch is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. Associate Probation Officer-Office of the Commissioner of Probation-Boston-Closing on 11/8/2019-External Legal Assistant - Office of Jury Commissioner-Boston-Closing on11/5/2019-External Assistant Clerk Magistrate-Westfield District Court-Westfield-Closing on 11/5/2019-External Case Specialist Series-Norfolk Probate & Family Court-Canton-Closing on 11/5/2019-External Assistant HR Manager for Talent Acquisition-Office of Court Management-Boston-Closing on 11/6/2019-External First Assistant Clerk- Plymouth Superior Court- Brockton Closing on 11/17/2019-External ‌ ‌ Massachusetts Court System | Website Trial Court Communications | John Adams Courthouse, One Pemberton Square, Boston, MA 02108 Unsubscribe slabarre at labarrelaw.com Update Profile | About Constant Contact Sent by hr.department at jud.state.ma.us in collaboration with Try email marketing for free today! From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Fri Oct 25 17:36:31 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:36:31 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT writing, digital interface not accessible Message-ID: <44697E36-3478-49DA-9CAB-F4BDD99A1D87@gmail.com> Greetings, I am currently attempting to suppress my rage so that I might compose a coherent message. Long and short, I am wondering if anyone else on the list has completed the writing portion of the LSAT since the recent changes took place. My experience was awful. I am now facing a process, the steps of which I do not yet know. Ultimately, I have to find out if I can retake that section of the test or, somehow ensure that it does not get passed along to schools to which I am applying. The interface was disgustingly inaccessible. My phone number is below my email address is, maurakutnyak at gmail.com At least I am hoping to commiserate, at best I am wondering if anyone can tell me how they found their way out of this disappointing circumstance. Sincerely, Maura Kutnyak 716-563-9882 From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Fri Oct 25 21:14:57 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 17:14:57 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT writing, digital interface not accessible In-Reply-To: <44697E36-3478-49DA-9CAB-F4BDD99A1D87@gmail.com> References: <44697E36-3478-49DA-9CAB-F4BDD99A1D87@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2608C30E-EF9A-413F-AF13-953DAF1138AB@gmail.com> I took it back in 2014, and was allowed to use my own computer with a screen reader, if I recall correctly. What was the problem with the interface? As hard as it is to hear, if you have accommodation troubles with the LSAC—and you will, because they are a terrible organization with respect to accessibility—it is probably worth just re-taking the test once you know about the problem areas. If you take it in December, you can still send the scores to the school's you're applying to. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: > > Greetings, > > I am currently attempting to suppress my rage so that I might compose a coherent message. > > Long and short, I am wondering if anyone else on the list has completed the writing portion of the LSAT since the recent changes took place. > > My experience was awful. I am now facing a process, the steps of which I do not yet know. Ultimately, I have to find out if I can retake that section of the test or, somehow ensure that it does not get passed along to schools to which I am applying. The interface was disgustingly inaccessible. > > My phone number is below my email address is, maurakutnyak at gmail.com > > At least I am hoping to commiserate, at best I am wondering if anyone can tell me how they found their way out of this disappointing circumstance. > > Sincerely, > > Maura Kutnyak > 716-563-9882 > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Oct 25 23:01:33 2019 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 23:01:33 +0000 Subject: [blindLaw] City of Seattle criminal attorney entry level In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: washingtonattorneyswithdisabilitiesassociation at googlegroups.com > On Behalf Of Jonathan Ko Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 2:02 PM To: WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation at googlegroups.com Subject: [WADA] New opportunity with the City Attorney's Office The Criminal Division of the Seattle City Attorney's Office seeks one or more entry-level Assistant City Prosecutors to join their team. This division represents the City in prosecuting misdemeanors, gross misdemeanors, and traffic infractions in Seattle Municipal Court. Criminal attorneys rotate through units dedicated to reviewing incident reports and filing cases, trials, and domestic violence cases. This is an exciting opportunity for an attorney to learn to manage a dynamic caseload and develop trial skills. In addition to this opportunity to join a team that is dedicated to public service, the City Attorney's Office offers a generous benefit program which includes paid leave benefits, paid parental and family leave, low cost health benefits, and the opportunity to participate in a defined benefit retirement program. Please apply through the Seattle City’s job website HERE. [Closes 11/12/2019 @ 4:00 pm] Thank you very much for your kind attention, we really appreciate your assistance and help with listing this on the website. [image002] Cherry Leung Human Resources Seattle City Attorney’s Office Civil Division 701 Fifth Avenue, Suite 2050 Seattle, WA 98104-7095 Phone: 206-256 -5499 FAX: 206-684-8284 Cherry.Leung at seattle.gov CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT: This message may contain information that is protected by the attorney-client privilege, the attorney work product doctrine, or by other confidentiality provisions. If this message was sent to you in error, any use, disclosure, or distribution of its contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please contact me at the telephone number or e-mail address listed above and delete this message without printing, copying, or forwarding it. Thank you. -- ***************************************************************************** Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message. The information contained in this message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. The recipient of this information is prohibited from disclosing the information to any other party unless this disclosure has been authorized in advance. If you are not intended recipient of this message or any agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. You should immediately destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply E-Mail. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet E-Mail for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the firm shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Washington Attorneys with Disabilities Association" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/WashingtonAttorneyswithDisabilitiesAssociation/CAE4giaAo6M9J2O0a_LQNQfE%2B9Ag4Vf4e4UZiz32%3D4jbh__bWzQ%40mail.gmail.com. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 4753 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Sat Oct 26 03:29:47 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 23:29:47 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT writing, digital interface not accessible In-Reply-To: <2608C30E-EF9A-413F-AF13-953DAF1138AB@gmail.com> References: <44697E36-3478-49DA-9CAB-F4BDD99A1D87@gmail.com> <2608C30E-EF9A-413F-AF13-953DAF1138AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kelby, The explanation as to the problem I encountered is complicated. Fundamentally, it comes down to incompatibility between voice over, I was using my mac laptop, and the secure proctoring software which was imposed by the LSAC. I could not: identify the insertion point, spellcheck, hear words or characters as they were typed, identify if I was back in the edit field after revisiting the prompt on the left of my screen or verify if I was entering text as I typed. As of, July, the writing portion is being administered separately from the other five sections. I took the exam in late September. I am now facing some kind of dialectic process where in I negotiate ( exactly what I am not sure.) I know some text was entered. I also know that what I wrote was not representative of what I could produce if using an accessible program. I am considering asking to take the section again proctored by an LSAC minion at the original test location. It would be unacceptable for the document as it is to be submitted as a standard of my writing ability. . > On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:14 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > I took it back in 2014, and was allowed to use my own computer with a screen reader, if I recall correctly. What was the problem with the interface? > > As hard as it is to hear, if you have accommodation troubles with the LSAC—and you will, because they are a terrible organization with respect to accessibility—it is probably worth just re-taking the test once you know about the problem areas. If you take it in December, you can still send the scores to the school's you're applying to. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Greetings, >> >> I am currently attempting to suppress my rage so that I might compose a coherent message. >> >> Long and short, I am wondering if anyone else on the list has completed the writing portion of the LSAT since the recent changes took place. >> >> My experience was awful. I am now facing a process, the steps of which I do not yet know. Ultimately, I have to find out if I can retake that section of the test or, somehow ensure that it does not get passed along to schools to which I am applying. The interface was disgustingly inaccessible. >> >> My phone number is below my email address is, maurakutnyak at gmail.com >> >> At least I am hoping to commiserate, at best I am wondering if anyone can tell me how they found their way out of this disappointing circumstance. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Maura Kutnyak >> 716-563-9882 >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Sat Oct 26 13:11:52 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 09:11:52 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT writing, digital interface not accessible In-Reply-To: References: <44697E36-3478-49DA-9CAB-F4BDD99A1D87@gmail.com> <2608C30E-EF9A-413F-AF13-953DAF1138AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am not sure you can legally negotiate accommodations this way, such that a past test result can be changed. Usually I request specifically that I am able to write in MS Word or another accessible program for exactly this reason. The PA bar was very accommodating, but I didn't end up needing to make this request of the LSAC because at that time they were not using this software. Typically, though, law schools care considerably more about your actual score than the writing test (which is not used to calculate the score). Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 25, 2019, at 11:29 PM, Maura via BlindLaw wrote: > > Hi Kelby, > The explanation as to the problem I encountered is complicated. Fundamentally, it comes down to incompatibility between voice over, I was using my mac laptop, and the secure proctoring software which was imposed by the LSAC. I could not: identify the insertion point, spellcheck, hear words or characters as they were typed, identify if I was back in the edit field after revisiting the prompt on the left of my screen or verify if I was entering text as I typed. > > As of, July, the writing portion is being administered separately from the other five sections. I took the exam in late September. I am now facing some kind of dialectic process where in I negotiate ( exactly what I am not sure.) I know some text was entered. I also know that what I wrote was not representative of what I could produce if using an accessible program. I am considering asking to take the section again proctored by an LSAC minion at the original test location. It would be unacceptable for the document as it is to be submitted as a standard of my writing ability. > > > . > > >> On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:14 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I took it back in 2014, and was allowed to use my own computer with a screen reader, if I recall correctly. What was the problem with the interface? >> >> As hard as it is to hear, if you have accommodation troubles with the LSAC—and you will, because they are a terrible organization with respect to accessibility—it is probably worth just re-taking the test once you know about the problem areas. If you take it in December, you can still send the scores to the school's you're applying to. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I am currently attempting to suppress my rage so that I might compose a coherent message. >>> >>> Long and short, I am wondering if anyone else on the list has completed the writing portion of the LSAT since the recent changes took place. >>> >>> My experience was awful. I am now facing a process, the steps of which I do not yet know. Ultimately, I have to find out if I can retake that section of the test or, somehow ensure that it does not get passed along to schools to which I am applying. The interface was disgustingly inaccessible. >>> >>> My phone number is below my email address is, maurakutnyak at gmail.com >>> >>> At least I am hoping to commiserate, at best I am wondering if anyone can tell me how they found their way out of this disappointing circumstance. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Maura Kutnyak >>> 716-563-9882 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Sat Oct 26 13:21:35 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 09:21:35 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT writing, digital interface not accessible In-Reply-To: References: <44697E36-3478-49DA-9CAB-F4BDD99A1D87@gmail.com> <2608C30E-EF9A-413F-AF13-953DAF1138AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Of course, I just feel very sad that the piece of crap that was put forth using their broken tool will represent me. I can write an addendum. That said, there is no avoiding some kind of bias on the part of the admissions committee. Even if just in the form of some kind of mental pat on the head that they will offer me as they except my application. They will forgive the poor pathetic blind student for not being able to use the software. I did my best to understand the parameters which have come along with the new digital writing system. At no point in the discussion regarding accommodations did they offer the option to use a more conventional wordprocessing program. All of this said, I do not have the time and energy to argue this to its ultimate end. I will do my best to figure out a solution that isn’t depressing and move on. Sincerely, Maura Kutnyak 716-563-9882 > On Oct 26, 2019, at 9:11 AM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > I am not sure you can legally negotiate accommodations this way, such that a past test result can be changed. Usually I request specifically that I am able to write in MS Word or another accessible program for exactly this reason. The PA bar was very accommodating, but I didn't end up needing to make this request of the LSAC because at that time they were not using this software. > > Typically, though, law schools care considerably more about your actual score than the writing test (which is not used to calculate the score). > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 25, 2019, at 11:29 PM, Maura via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Hi Kelby, >> The explanation as to the problem I encountered is complicated. Fundamentally, it comes down to incompatibility between voice over, I was using my mac laptop, and the secure proctoring software which was imposed by the LSAC. I could not: identify the insertion point, spellcheck, hear words or characters as they were typed, identify if I was back in the edit field after revisiting the prompt on the left of my screen or verify if I was entering text as I typed. >> >> As of, July, the writing portion is being administered separately from the other five sections. I took the exam in late September. I am now facing some kind of dialectic process where in I negotiate ( exactly what I am not sure.) I know some text was entered. I also know that what I wrote was not representative of what I could produce if using an accessible program. I am considering asking to take the section again proctored by an LSAC minion at the original test location. It would be unacceptable for the document as it is to be submitted as a standard of my writing ability. >> >> >> . >> >> >>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:14 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I took it back in 2014, and was allowed to use my own computer with a screen reader, if I recall correctly. What was the problem with the interface? >>> >>> As hard as it is to hear, if you have accommodation troubles with the LSAC—and you will, because they are a terrible organization with respect to accessibility—it is probably worth just re-taking the test once you know about the problem areas. If you take it in December, you can still send the scores to the school's you're applying to. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> I am currently attempting to suppress my rage so that I might compose a coherent message. >>>> >>>> Long and short, I am wondering if anyone else on the list has completed the writing portion of the LSAT since the recent changes took place. >>>> >>>> My experience was awful. I am now facing a process, the steps of which I do not yet know. Ultimately, I have to find out if I can retake that section of the test or, somehow ensure that it does not get passed along to schools to which I am applying. The interface was disgustingly inaccessible. >>>> >>>> My phone number is below my email address is, maurakutnyak at gmail.com >>>> >>>> At least I am hoping to commiserate, at best I am wondering if anyone can tell me how they found their way out of this disappointing circumstance. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>> 716-563-9882 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com From laura.wolk at gmail.com Sat Oct 26 13:31:53 2019 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 09:31:53 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT writing, digital interface not accessible In-Reply-To: References: <44697E36-3478-49DA-9CAB-F4BDD99A1D87@gmail.com> <2608C30E-EF9A-413F-AF13-953DAF1138AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201C0CA3-13D5-4D0B-9C48-0B5B2FD72A3E@gmail.com> I’m so incredibly sorry that you went through this. And I’m very glad the writing section is the last one, because I can’t imagine what that would have done to the rest of my ability to take the test. What I recommend is that you take full advantage of the additional information and addendum sections. Upload a short writing sample. Explain L sax historical failure to accommodate and repeated lawsuits and settlements that have been brought against it. It will be fine. Welcome to fighting for your rights in the profession of law! Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 26, 2019, at 9:11 AM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: > > I am not sure you can legally negotiate accommodations this way, such that a past test result can be changed. Usually I request specifically that I am able to write in MS Word or another accessible program for exactly this reason. The PA bar was very accommodating, but I didn't end up needing to make this request of the LSAC because at that time they were not using this software. > > Typically, though, law schools care considerably more about your actual score than the writing test (which is not used to calculate the score). > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 25, 2019, at 11:29 PM, Maura via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> Hi Kelby, >> The explanation as to the problem I encountered is complicated. Fundamentally, it comes down to incompatibility between voice over, I was using my mac laptop, and the secure proctoring software which was imposed by the LSAC. I could not: identify the insertion point, spellcheck, hear words or characters as they were typed, identify if I was back in the edit field after revisiting the prompt on the left of my screen or verify if I was entering text as I typed. >> >> As of, July, the writing portion is being administered separately from the other five sections. I took the exam in late September. I am now facing some kind of dialectic process where in I negotiate ( exactly what I am not sure.) I know some text was entered. I also know that what I wrote was not representative of what I could produce if using an accessible program. I am considering asking to take the section again proctored by an LSAC minion at the original test location. It would be unacceptable for the document as it is to be submitted as a standard of my writing ability. >> >> >> . >> >> >>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:14 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I took it back in 2014, and was allowed to use my own computer with a screen reader, if I recall correctly. What was the problem with the interface? >>> >>> As hard as it is to hear, if you have accommodation troubles with the LSAC—and you will, because they are a terrible organization with respect to accessibility—it is probably worth just re-taking the test once you know about the problem areas. If you take it in December, you can still send the scores to the school's you're applying to. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> I am currently attempting to suppress my rage so that I might compose a coherent message. >>>> >>>> Long and short, I am wondering if anyone else on the list has completed the writing portion of the LSAT since the recent changes took place. >>>> >>>> My experience was awful. I am now facing a process, the steps of which I do not yet know. Ultimately, I have to find out if I can retake that section of the test or, somehow ensure that it does not get passed along to schools to which I am applying. The interface was disgustingly inaccessible. >>>> >>>> My phone number is below my email address is, maurakutnyak at gmail.com >>>> >>>> At least I am hoping to commiserate, at best I am wondering if anyone can tell me how they found their way out of this disappointing circumstance. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>> 716-563-9882 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com From maurakutnyak at gmail.com Sat Oct 26 13:54:05 2019 From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 09:54:05 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT writing, digital interface not accessible In-Reply-To: <201C0CA3-13D5-4D0B-9C48-0B5B2FD72A3E@gmail.com> References: <44697E36-3478-49DA-9CAB-F4BDD99A1D87@gmail.com> <2608C30E-EF9A-413F-AF13-953DAF1138AB@gmail.com> <201C0CA3-13D5-4D0B-9C48-0B5B2FD72A3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: What a mess this is. Thankfully, I did not have to do the writing directly after the other five sections. The way it is structured now, individuals have up to a year to complete the writing section. So, I struggled and cried through that section at home without a proctor, other than the broken digital one, to see. I feel inclined to emphasize, for any individuals preparing to take the LSAT, be sure to request the use of a conventional wordprocessing program, word, TextEdit, notepad, whatever you like,. This is of course in reference to the writing section. All of my accommodations applied for the writing section just as they did for the other five sections. That said, I did not realize I had to specifically request the use of my own wordprocessing program. It’s not enough to have use of your own computer. Embed that request in your initial accommodations form. Sincerely, Maura Kutnyak 716-563-9882 > On Oct 26, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: > > I’m so incredibly sorry that you went through this. And I’m very glad the writing section is the last one, because I can’t imagine what that would have done to the rest of my ability to take the test. What I recommend is that you take full advantage of the additional information and addendum sections. Upload a short writing sample. Explain L sax historical failure to accommodate and repeated lawsuits and settlements that have been brought against it. It will be fine. Welcome to fighting for your rights in the profession of law! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 26, 2019, at 9:11 AM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I am not sure you can legally negotiate accommodations this way, such that a past test result can be changed. Usually I request specifically that I am able to write in MS Word or another accessible program for exactly this reason. The PA bar was very accommodating, but I didn't end up needing to make this request of the LSAC because at that time they were not using this software. >> >> Typically, though, law schools care considerably more about your actual score than the writing test (which is not used to calculate the score). >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 11:29 PM, Maura via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> Hi Kelby, >>> The explanation as to the problem I encountered is complicated. Fundamentally, it comes down to incompatibility between voice over, I was using my mac laptop, and the secure proctoring software which was imposed by the LSAC. I could not: identify the insertion point, spellcheck, hear words or characters as they were typed, identify if I was back in the edit field after revisiting the prompt on the left of my screen or verify if I was entering text as I typed. >>> >>> As of, July, the writing portion is being administered separately from the other five sections. I took the exam in late September. I am now facing some kind of dialectic process where in I negotiate ( exactly what I am not sure.) I know some text was entered. I also know that what I wrote was not representative of what I could produce if using an accessible program. I am considering asking to take the section again proctored by an LSAC minion at the original test location. It would be unacceptable for the document as it is to be submitted as a standard of my writing ability. >>> >>> >>> . >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:14 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> I took it back in 2014, and was allowed to use my own computer with a screen reader, if I recall correctly. What was the problem with the interface? >>>> >>>> As hard as it is to hear, if you have accommodation troubles with the LSAC—and you will, because they are a terrible organization with respect to accessibility—it is probably worth just re-taking the test once you know about the problem areas. If you take it in December, you can still send the scores to the school's you're applying to. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Greetings, >>>>> >>>>> I am currently attempting to suppress my rage so that I might compose a coherent message. >>>>> >>>>> Long and short, I am wondering if anyone else on the list has completed the writing portion of the LSAT since the recent changes took place. >>>>> >>>>> My experience was awful. I am now facing a process, the steps of which I do not yet know. Ultimately, I have to find out if I can retake that section of the test or, somehow ensure that it does not get passed along to schools to which I am applying. The interface was disgustingly inaccessible. >>>>> >>>>> My phone number is below my email address is, maurakutnyak at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> At least I am hoping to commiserate, at best I am wondering if anyone can tell me how they found their way out of this disappointing circumstance. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com From kelbycarlson at gmail.com Sat Oct 26 14:15:05 2019 From: kelbycarlson at gmail.com (kelby carlson) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 10:15:05 -0400 Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT writing, digital interface not accessible In-Reply-To: References: <44697E36-3478-49DA-9CAB-F4BDD99A1D87@gmail.com> <2608C30E-EF9A-413F-AF13-953DAF1138AB@gmail.com> <201C0CA3-13D5-4D0B-9C48-0B5B2FD72A3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <398123B6-9012-4A83-9630-FAD752D8713B@gmail.com> This is a good idea in general. It is always worth being as detailed as possible for every accommodation you can think of, but for the reason for each as well. Additionally, the earlier you can get your application in, the better. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 26, 2019, at 9:54 AM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: > > What a mess this is. Thankfully, I did not have to do the writing directly after the other five sections. The way it is structured now, individuals have up to a year to complete the writing section. So, I struggled and cried through that section at home without a proctor, other than the broken digital one, to see. > > I feel inclined to emphasize, for any individuals preparing to take the LSAT, be sure to request the use of a conventional wordprocessing program, word, TextEdit, notepad, whatever you like,. This is of course in reference to the writing section. All of my accommodations applied for the writing section just as they did for the other five sections. That said, I did not realize I had to specifically request the use of my own wordprocessing program. It’s not enough to have use of your own computer. Embed that request in your initial accommodations form. > > Sincerely, > > Maura Kutnyak > 716-563-9882 > >> On Oct 26, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw wrote: >> >> I’m so incredibly sorry that you went through this. And I’m very glad the writing section is the last one, because I can’t imagine what that would have done to the rest of my ability to take the test. What I recommend is that you take full advantage of the additional information and addendum sections. Upload a short writing sample. Explain L sax historical failure to accommodate and repeated lawsuits and settlements that have been brought against it. It will be fine. Welcome to fighting for your rights in the profession of law! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 26, 2019, at 9:11 AM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>> >>> I am not sure you can legally negotiate accommodations this way, such that a past test result can be changed. Usually I request specifically that I am able to write in MS Word or another accessible program for exactly this reason. The PA bar was very accommodating, but I didn't end up needing to make this request of the LSAC because at that time they were not using this software. >>> >>> Typically, though, law schools care considerably more about your actual score than the writing test (which is not used to calculate the score). >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 11:29 PM, Maura via BlindLaw wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Kelby, >>>> The explanation as to the problem I encountered is complicated. Fundamentally, it comes down to incompatibility between voice over, I was using my mac laptop, and the secure proctoring software which was imposed by the LSAC. I could not: identify the insertion point, spellcheck, hear words or characters as they were typed, identify if I was back in the edit field after revisiting the prompt on the left of my screen or verify if I was entering text as I typed. >>>> >>>> As of, July, the writing portion is being administered separately from the other five sections. I took the exam in late September. I am now facing some kind of dialectic process where in I negotiate ( exactly what I am not sure.) I know some text was entered. I also know that what I wrote was not representative of what I could produce if using an accessible program. I am considering asking to take the section again proctored by an LSAC minion at the original test location. It would be unacceptable for the document as it is to be submitted as a standard of my writing ability. >>>> >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:14 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I took it back in 2014, and was allowed to use my own computer with a screen reader, if I recall correctly. What was the problem with the interface? >>>>> >>>>> As hard as it is to hear, if you have accommodation troubles with the LSAC—and you will, because they are a terrible organization with respect to accessibility—it is probably worth just re-taking the test once you know about the problem areas. If you take it in December, you can still send the scores to the school's you're applying to. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Greetings, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am currently attempting to suppress my rage so that I might compose a coherent message. >>>>>> >>>>>> Long and short, I am wondering if anyone else on the list has completed the writing portion of the LSAT since the recent changes took place. >>>>>> >>>>>> My experience was awful. I am now facing a process, the steps of which I do not yet know. Ultimately, I have to find out if I can retake that section of the test or, somehow ensure that it does not get passed along to schools to which I am applying. The interface was disgustingly inaccessible. >>>>>> >>>>>> My phone number is below my email address is, maurakutnyak at gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> At least I am hoping to commiserate, at best I am wondering if anyone can tell me how they found their way out of this disappointing circumstance. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Maura Kutnyak >>>>>> 716-563-9882 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BlindLaw mailing list >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BlindLaw mailing list >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laura.wolk%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> BlindLaw mailing list >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > BlindLaw mailing list > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kelbycarlson%40gmail.com From sanho817 at gmail.com Tue Oct 29 14:45:24 2019 From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 09:45:24 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Sound Scheme in JAWS Message-ID: All, I know how to access the Sound Scheme menu under Utilities, but every sound scheme has the description "JAWS will play a sound when HTML elmenets are read such as links or headings." I know that this is wrong. I can hit spacebar and the selected item changes; the description just isn't changing with it. Which sound scheme should I select so that JAWS reads things like italicization? Warmth, Sanho From joshl at loevy.com Thu Oct 31 18:50:25 2019 From: joshl at loevy.com (Josh Loevy) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 13:50:25 -0500 Subject: [blindLaw] Drop box update and accessibility Message-ID: <623b64077aa3d4265d7d6a582480db14@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, Until recently my experience with the desktop version of Dropbox has been really good. However, they seem to have updated it at some point, and the jaws experience is worse. Has anyone else run into this issue? If so, any work arounds?