[blindLaw] Relativity with JAWS
Elizabeth Troutman
ETroutman at BrooksPierce.com
Fri Oct 4 13:03:15 UTC 2019
I find Relativity itself to be pretty clunky and difficult. But, after the documents are loaded, I can have a paralegal generate an excel file with the documents OCR'd and linked into the excel file. The excel contains any labels/tagging that has been done - e.g. for email, it would have "to" in one column, "from" in another column, etc. etc. I can then type in tags and attorney notes. The excel file then gets run back through Relativity and the tags/notes appear. So, then we can spit out a set of responsive documents for example. Or, if I've tagged them for somebody's deposition, spit out just those documents, with an accompanying excel file, so I can continue to annotate. If we're working firm-wide on a doc review, I can have it spit out just my "batches" and do the tagging in accordance with whatever the guidelines are, and when it gets run back through, it looks like everyone else's batches do. Obviously, it would be better if we didn't have to do this whole process, but it's a work-around that has allowed me to do e-discovery. If you want more help with this, feel free to call - I can also put you in touch with our litigation support person who could explain it in computer jargon.
Elizabeth Troutman<http://www.brookspierce.com/our-people/attorneys/elizabeth-l-troutman>
[cid:image001.jpg at 01D57A92.8DA4F670]<http://www.brookspierce.com/>
t: 336.271.3138
f: 336.232.9138
2000 Renaissance Plaza
230 North Elm Street
Greensboro, NC 27401
P.O. Box 26000 (27420)
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Relativity with JAWS (Gerard Sadlier)
2. Re: Most important formatting advice I have -- Re:
Discrimination (Scott Marshall)
3. Re: Most important formatting advice I have -- Re:
Discrimination (Lakeria Taylor)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 07:44:47 +0100
From: Gerard Sadlier <gerard.sadlier at gmail.com<mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com>>
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: "Stewart, Christopher K" <chris.stewart at uky.edu<mailto:chris.stewart at uky.edu>>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Relativity with JAWS
Message-ID:
<CAGZitzJa-hPHaXJWsh8rAnefbLQutiCBGjg_8SDwLu5Q4PoQiw at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAGZitzJa-hPHaXJWsh8rAnefbLQutiCBGjg_8SDwLu5Q4PoQiw at mail.gmail.com>>
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I would also be very interested in any information regarding this!
Kind regards
Ger
On 9/27/19, Stewart, Christopher K via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> Hi Y'all,
>
> I remember some talk a few years ago about using Relativity with JAWS.
> Has anyone got more recent information on whether it's in any way
> accessible?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
> --
> Chris K. Stewart
> Attorney at Law
> KBA #97351
> Ph:
> (502)457-1757
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 08:51:11 +0000
From: Scott Marshall <marshall at blindlawyers.org<mailto:marshall at blindlawyers.org>>
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re:
Discrimination
Message-ID:
<BN8PR18MB2819525D863428DF5E942EFBA09E0 at BN8PR18MB2819.namprd18.prod.outlook.com<mailto:BN8PR18MB2819525D863428DF5E942EFBA09E0 at BN8PR18MB2819.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>>
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Laura and everyone:
Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, but it is on my to-do list for today for sure.
Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem.
The days of being the only author on a document are over.
Thanks again.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Will Burley via BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: Will Burley <will.burley3 at gmail.com<mailto:will.burley3 at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination
This conversation has been very welcomed!
On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use
> paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the
> keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where
> you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas,
> just press the letters consecutively )
>
> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into
> which it is pasted.
>
> Is this your experience.
>
> There are also two keystrokes that I think help.
> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the
> text is removed.
> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I
> don't remember it right now.
>
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
> via BlindLaw
> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM
> To: Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>
> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>; Blind Law Mailing List <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re:
> Discrimination
>
> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER ? USE CAUTION**
>
> All,
>
> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses
> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets
> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of
> blindness-only formatting errors.
>
> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another
> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original
> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is
> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10,
> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and
> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same
> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from
> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most
> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only
> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to
> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately
> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special
> formatting will be retained.
>
> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable
> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word
> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it.
> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents
> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to
> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and
> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right-
> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press
> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean
> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way
> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its
> very smart "auto" features.
>
> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as
> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of
> options.
>
> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately**
> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside,
> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or
> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and
> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix.
>
> Happy formatting,
> Laura
>
> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Laura,
> >
> > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a
> > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be
> > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my
> > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille.
> > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and
> > colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is
> > included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain
> > sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty
> > good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.)
> >
> > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely
> > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I
> > am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in
> > my documents.
> >
> > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> Kelby,
> >>
> >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word
> >> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for
> >> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason
> >> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace
> >> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be
> >> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily
> >> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to
> >> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an
> >> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you
> >> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed
> >> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating
> >> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is
> >> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it.
> >>
> >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have
> >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes,
> >> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some,
> >> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks.
> >>
> >> I hope this is helpful.
> >>
> >> Laura
> >>
> >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader
> >>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to
> >>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind
> >>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing.
> >>>
> >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the
> >>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no
> >>> idea what a non-breaking space is.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Great I?m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you
> >>>> can
> also
> >>>> do
> >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got
> >>>> broken somewhere along the way.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
> >>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> \8221
> >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf.
> >>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which
> >>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to
> >>>>> make sure I do
> this
> >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/well.+Hopefully+it+works+for+you?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/well.+Hopefully+it+works+for+you?entry=gmail&source=g>>.
> I?m
> >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Angie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US
> >>>>> Attorney at Law
> >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]<http://www.loeb.com/<http://www.loeb.com/>> Loeb and Loeb LLP
> >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001
> >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 |
> >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com<mailto:amatney at loeb.com>
> >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC |
> >>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong |
> >>>>> www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com><http://www.loeb.com/<http://www.loeb.com/>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Laura
> >>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM
> >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
> >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I
> >>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the
> >>>>> dictionary manager.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw
> >>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Laura,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brian
> >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt
> >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of
> >>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional
> >>>>>> Corporation
> >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103
> >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501
> >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030
> >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061
> >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com<http://www.holsteinlaw.com>
> >>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>><http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>>>>mailto:
> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com<mailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%0b>> >>>>>> >>
> On
> >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM
> >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
> >>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brian,
> >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that
> >>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations.
> >>>>>> I've
> >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the
> >>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and
> >>>>>>> viewed in html form.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes
> >>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and
> >>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would
> >>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office
> >>>>>>>> products.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This
> >>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous
> >>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential
> >>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are
> not
> >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for
> >>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> >>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> >>>>>>>> any of the information contained
> in
> >>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you
> >>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately
> >>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission
> >>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner.
> >>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP.
> >>>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.o
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.o%0b>> >>>>>>>> rg>>
> >>>>>>>> On
> >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk
> >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM
> >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
> >>>>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com
<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com%0b>> >>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of
> >>>>>>>> what you mean?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Brian
> >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt
> >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of
> >>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt
> >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation
> >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501
> >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030
> >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061
> >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com<http://www.holsteinlaw.com>
> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>>>>><http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>><http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>>>>>mailto:
> brianunitt at holsteinlaw
> >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.%0b>> >>>>>>>>> org
> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.o
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.o%0b>> rg
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> On
> >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM
> >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson
> >>>>>>>>> <kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:
<mailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:%0b>> kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a
> >>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just
> >>>>>>>>> quote.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going
> >>>>>>>>>> forward
> if
> >>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier
> >>>>>>>>>>> <gerard.sadlier at gmail.com<mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com
<mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com%3cmailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com%0b>> <mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com%3cmailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your
> >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been
> >>>>>>>>>>> to:
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would
> presumably
> >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate
> >>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing
> >>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Ger
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance,"
> >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In
> fact,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're
> >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds...
> >>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take
> >>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound
> >>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in
> >>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about
> >>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really
> >>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd
> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:
<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:%0b>> laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and
> 8217.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> can also
> happen
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these
> symbols.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter ?C,?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards ?C,?
> so
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don?t see that very often. I don?t think
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me
> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m wrong.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP]<http://www.loeb.com/<http://www.loeb.com/>> Loeb and Loeb LLP
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com<mailto:amatney at loeb.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com><http://www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com>><http://www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ><
> http://www.loeb.com/<http://www.loeb.com/>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/
> www.loeb.com/>><BR>>>>>>>>>>><http://www.loeb.com/>><BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission
> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading
> or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or>
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%0b>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com<mailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com<mailto<mailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto>:
> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com<mailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or>
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%0b>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> g<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%0b>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindla
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>> %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:w at nfbnet.org%<mailto:w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:w at nfbnet.org%25>
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:
<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:%0b>> sbg at sbgaal.com%3c<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c>
> >>>>> <mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%
<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%25%0b>> 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you
> explain.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com
> %3cm<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal
<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal%0b>> .com
> %3cm>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto>:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%25>
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates
> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto>:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%25>
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law
> school
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I?m far too bitter at this point
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some
> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE?s, and publishing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3>
> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali>
> >>>>> <https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali<B<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali<B>
> >>>>> R%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> sm-C
> >>>>>>>> <
> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto>:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%25>
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a
> legal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud
> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it?s worth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of
> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This
> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I?m hearing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I
> am
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don?t want to be silo
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don?t want to be limited to practice law in an area
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t have time to perfect this dispatch.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%25>
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James? point is spot on.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James?
> observation
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers? concerns about the candidates?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn?t my history of success in the workplace
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. .
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:%0b>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%25>
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a
> job
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can?t read
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my
> schooling.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of
> school
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to
> make
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus
> for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 <tel:716-563-9882>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>>>>
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%20%
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> %20%25%0b>>>>
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> %20%25%0b>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will
> soon
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also
> don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers'
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance??
> setting,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my
> naive
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho
> Steele-Louchart
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.o
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg
> <mailt
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on
> or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g
> <mailto<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmail
> to>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>>><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>>>>
> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o>
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<BR>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o>
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<BR>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt
> >>>>> p:/
> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3>
> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>>> info for
> >>>>> BlindLaw:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<BR>>>><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<BR>>>>>
> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or>
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> g/cj
> >>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cj<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cj>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> <mailto<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto>:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg
> <mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3>
> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or>
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e>
> >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or>
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3e%3e>
> >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/
> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o>
>
--
Will Burley
Mobile: (713) 614-3322
Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com
?I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display it.? ?Maya Angelou _______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 04:03:47 -0500
From: Lakeria Taylor <lakeria2009 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Scott Marshall <marshall at blindlawyers.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re:
Discrimination
Message-ID: <75068EC9-7D47-4752-9558-8F5352C6434D at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all,
Control alt v gives you paste special.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 4, 2019, at 3:51 AM, Scott Marshall via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Laura and everyone:
> Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, but it is on my to-do list for today for sure.
> Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem.
> The days of being the only author on a document are over.
> Thanks again.
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Will Burley via BlindLaw
> Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Will Burley <will.burley3 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination
>
> This conversation has been very welcomed!
>
>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use
>> paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the
>> keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where
>> you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas,
>> just press the letters consecutively )
>>
>> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into
>> which it is pasted.
>>
>> Is this your experience.
>>
>> There are also two keystrokes that I think help.
>> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the
>> text is removed.
>> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I
>> don't remember it right now.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
>> via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM
>> To: Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>; Blind Law Mailing List <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re:
>> Discrimination
>>
>> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER ? USE CAUTION**
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses
>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets
>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of
>> blindness-only formatting errors.
>>
>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another
>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original
>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is
>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10,
>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and
>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same
>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from
>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most
>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only
>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to
>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately
>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special
>> formatting will be retained.
>>
>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable
>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word
>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it.
>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents
>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to
>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and
>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right-
>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press
>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean
>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way
>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its
>> very smart "auto" features.
>>
>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as
>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of
>> options.
>>
>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately**
>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside,
>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or
>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and
>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix.
>>
>> Happy formatting,
>> Laura
>>
>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Laura,
>>>
>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a
>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be
>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my
>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille.
>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and
>>> colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is
>>> included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain
>>> sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty
>>> good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.)
>>>
>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely
>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I
>>> am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in
>>> my documents.
>>>
>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Kelby,
>>>>
>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word
>>>> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for
>>>> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason
>>>> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace
>>>> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be
>>>> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily
>>>> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to
>>>> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an
>>>> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you
>>>> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed
>>>> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating
>>>> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is
>>>> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it.
>>>>
>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have
>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes,
>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some,
>>>> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this is helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader
>>>>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to
>>>>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind
>>>>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the
>>>>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no
>>>>> idea what a non-breaking space is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great I?m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you
>>>>>> can
>> also
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got
>>>>>> broken somewhere along the way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> \8221
>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf.
>>>>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which
>>>>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to
>>>>>>> make sure I do
>> this
>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/well.+Hopefully+it+works+for+you?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/well.+Hopefully+it+works+for+you?entry=gmail&source=g>>.
>> I?m
>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Angie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US
>>>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]<http://www.loeb.com/<http://www.loeb.com/>> Loeb and Loeb LLP
>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001
>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 |
>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com<mailto:amatney at loeb.com>
>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC |
>>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong |
>>>>>>> www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com><http://www.loeb.com/<http://www.loeb.com/>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Laura
>>>>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM
>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I
>>>>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the
>>>>>>> dictionary manager.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Laura,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt
>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of
>>>>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional
>>>>>>>> Corporation
>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103
>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501
>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030
>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061
>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com<http://www.holsteinlaw.com>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>><http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>>>>mailto:
>> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that
>>>>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations.
>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the
>>>>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and
>>>>>>>>> viewed in html form.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes
>>>>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and
>>>>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would
>>>>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office
>>>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This
>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous
>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential
>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are
>> not
>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for
>>>>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>>>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
>>>>>>>>>> any of the information contained
>> in
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you
>>>>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately
>>>>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission
>>>>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner.
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP.
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>> rg>>
>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of
>>>>>>>>>> what you mean?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt
>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of
>>>>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt
>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation
>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501
>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030
>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061
>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com<http://www.holsteinlaw.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>>>>><http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>><http://www.holsteinlaw.com<BR>>>>>mailto:
>> brianunitt at holsteinlaw
>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.
>>>>>>>>>>> org
>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.o
>> rg
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson
>>>>>>>>>>> <kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:
>> kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a
>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just
>>>>>>>>>>> quote.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gerard.sadlier at gmail.com<mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com
>> <mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com%3cmailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would
>> presumably
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In
>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:
>> laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and
>> 8217.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can also
>> happen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these
>> symbols.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter ?C,?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards ?C,?
>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don?t see that very often. I don?t think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me
>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?m wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP]<http://www.loeb.com/<http://www.loeb.com/>> Loeb and Loeb LLP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com<mailto:amatney at loeb.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com><http://www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com>><http://www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://www.loeb.com/<http://www.loeb.com/>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/
>> www.loeb.com/>><BR>>>>>>>>>>><http://www.loeb.com/>><BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission
>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading
>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com<mailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com<mailto:
>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> g<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindla
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:w at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:
>> sbg at sbgaal.com%3c
>>>>>>> <mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%
>> 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you
>> explain.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com
>> %3cm<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal
>> .com
>> %3cm>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates
>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law
>> school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I?m far too bitter at this point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE?s, and publishing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3>
>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali>
>>>>>>> <https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali<B<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali<B>
>>>>>>> R%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>> sm-C
>>>>>>>>>> <
>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C<https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a
>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it?s worth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This
>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I?m hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I
>> am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don?t want to be silo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don?t want to be limited to practice law in an area
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t have time to perfect this dispatch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James? point is spot on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James?
>> observation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers? concerns about the candidates?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn?t my history of success in the workplace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a
>> job
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can?t read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my
>> schooling.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of
>> school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to
>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus
>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 <tel:716-563-9882>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%20%
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> %20%25%0b>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> %20%25%0b>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will
>> soon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also
>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance??
>> setting,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my
>> naive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho
>> Steele-Louchart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg
>> <mailt
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on
>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g
>> <mailto<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmail
>> to>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>>><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>>>>
>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o>
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<BR>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o>
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<BR>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt
>>>>>>> p:/
>> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3>
>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>> %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<BR>>>><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<BR>>>>>
>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or>
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>> g/cj
>>>>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cj<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cj>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg
>> <mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3>
>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or>
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e>
>>>>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or>
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or<BR>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e%3e>
>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/
>> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o>
>>
> --
> Will Burley
> Mobile: (713) 614-3322
> Email: will.burley3 at gmail.com
>
> ?I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display it.? ?Maya Angelou _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall@blindlawyers.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall@blindlawyers.org>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lakeria2009@gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lakeria2009@gmail.com>
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