From john.vickers07 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  1 14:43:13 2023
From: john.vickers07 at gmail.com (john.vickers07 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2023 09:43:13 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] BlindLaw Digest, Vol 233, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.47.1696161602.20746.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.47.1696161602.20746.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <001a01d9f475$9b4372a0$d1ca57e0$@gmail.com>

Good morning, Natasha.
I am no-lawyer for sure, but have considered law school throughout my
lifetime. I would request what they are telling in you to be put in writing.
This is just for your own sake.
Hope this helps.
Have a wonderful day, and good luck. You got this.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of
blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2023 7:00 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: BlindLaw Digest, Vol 233, Issue 1

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of BlindLaw digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Potential Discrimination: Trouble with LSAC (Natasha Ishaq)
   2. Re: Potential Discrimination: Trouble with LSAC (Elizabeth Rouse)
   3. Re: Potential Discrimination: Trouble with LSAC (James Fetter)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 11:34:42 -0400
From: Natasha Ishaq <natasha.ishaq2001 at gmail.com>
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindLaw] Potential Discrimination: Trouble with LSAC
Message-ID: <F30370B5-40FE-4338-9649-DB25A2A8B3BC at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hello All, 

I am having some problems with LSAC and am starting to think that there is
an element of discriminatory practice involved. 

As of now, I am scheduled to take the LSATs on October 16th. There are four
practice exams available for free through LawHub, which registered test
takers an access through their LSAC accounts. I heard that LSAC will provide
Brailel copies of these tests upon request. During the summer, I called LSAC
2-3 times requesting the material and they told me that I would first have
to be approved for my testing accommodations. I received my accommodations
letter this past Monday night. I immediately reached out to LSAC?s
accommodations team to request the Braille practice exams. They told me that
it is too late for them to provide me with the material, as it takes 1-2
weeks to prepare. Upon further questioning from me, they proceeded to to
tell me that I did not actually have to wait for my accommodations to be
approved to access Braille preparation materials. This basically means that
i was given inaccurate information over the summer. LSAC then offered me the
opportunity to change my test date free of charge so that they could provide
me with Braille preparation material. I am inclined to take the offer,
because I do want to be able to do a run through of the exam in Braille to
best simulate my experience on test day. 

When I indicated that I would indeed like to have the Braille preparation
material, they proceeded to tell me that I would first have to purchase a
preparation book, even though I am asking for a Braille copy of an exam that
is made available to everyone for free via our LSAC accounts.What I am
failing to understand is this: Why should I have to pay for material that
other registered test takers are able to access for free? 

After numerous back and forth communication through email, I am oin to
attempt to reach the LSAC accommodations team by phone in hopes that verbal
communication will be able ot settle the matter entirely. 

If anyone is able to offer insight or assist me in attempting to resolve
this matter, I would be incredibly grateful. 

Thank you.

Best,
Natasha 


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:53:37 -0500
From: Elizabeth Rouse <elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com>
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Potential Discrimination: Trouble with LSAC
Message-ID:
	<CANGwUJNtQ09a-AwBBvSoxcTsk6uG7pzFMgS2zv_cC0CNxLw2LQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi there,

One avenue you could explore is reaching out to LSAC's Chief Diversity
Officer Angela Winfield at awinfield at lsac.org.

I'm not sure she'll have all the answers, but she could point you in the
right direction.

Best of luck with the process!
Elizabeth


Elizabeth Rouse, She/her/hers
Board Member | National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) blindlawyers.net
Board Member | Performing Arts Division nfb-pad.org
Elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com
(563) 210-1854
?If you can see yourself as an artist, and you can see that your life is
your own creation, then why not create the most beautiful story for
yourself?? - Miguel Ruiz


On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 10:36 AM Natasha Ishaq via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I am having some problems with LSAC and am starting to think that 
> there is an element of discriminatory practice involved.
>
> As of now, I am scheduled to take the LSATs on October 16th. There are 
> four practice exams available for free through LawHub, which 
> registered test takers an access through their LSAC accounts. I heard 
> that LSAC will provide Brailel copies of these tests upon request. 
> During the summer, I called LSAC 2-3 times requesting the material and 
> they told me that I would first have to be approved for my testing 
> accommodations. I received my accommodations letter this past Monday 
> night. I immediately reached out to LSAC?s accommodations team to 
> request the Braille practice exams. They told me that it is too late 
> for them to provide me with the material, as it takes 1-2 weeks to 
> prepare. Upon further questioning from me, they proceeded to to tell 
> me that I did not actually have to wait for my accommodations to be 
> approved to access Braille preparation materials. This basically means
that i was given inaccurate information over the summer.
> LSAC then offered me the opportunity to change my test date free of 
> charge so that they could provide me with Braille preparation 
> material. I am inclined to take the offer, because I do want to be 
> able to do a run through of the exam in Braille to best simulate my
experience on test day.
>
> When I indicated that I would indeed like to have the Braille 
> preparation material, they proceeded to tell me that I would first 
> have to purchase a preparation book, even though I am asking for a 
> Braille copy of an exam that is made available to everyone for free 
> via our LSAC accounts.What I am failing to understand is this: Why 
> should I have to pay for material that other registered test takers are
able to access for free?
>
> After numerous back and forth communication through email, I am oin to 
> attempt to reach the LSAC accommodations team by phone in hopes that 
> verbal communication will be able ot settle the matter entirely.
>
> If anyone is able to offer insight or assist me in attempting to 
> resolve this matter, I would be incredibly grateful.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Best,
> Natasha
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/elizabethrouse.n
> fb%40gmail.com
>


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 12:02:08 -0400
From: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Potential Discrimination: Trouble with LSAC
Message-ID: <27639ACA-0991-4839-9B75-65998C4DD57C at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

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------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
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------------------------------

End of BlindLaw Digest, Vol 233, Issue 1
****************************************



From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 00:25:39 2023
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (rothmanjd at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 20:25:39 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Job Listing: Nebraska Supreme Court Access to Justice
 Specialist
Message-ID: <049201d9f659$4d9e9120$e8dbb360$@gmail.com>

 

Calling all access to justice warriors!  The Administrative Office of the
Courts and Probation has created a new
<https://supremecourt.nebraska.gov/employment/access-justice-specialist-0>
Access to Justice Specialist position.  The Nebraska Supreme Court created
the Access to Justice Commission with the mission of providing equal access
to swift, fair justice for all Nebraskans regardless of income, race,
ethnicity, gender, disability, age or language.  The position has been
posted, so please share it in your professional circles.  

 

Thank you!

 

 

Mariana Muñoz de Schell, M.A. (she/her)| AVP of Cultural & Linguistic
Response

Nebraska Children and Families Foundation

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

215 Centennial Mall South, Suite 200, Lincoln, NE 68508

p: (402) 817-2018 | m: (402) 417-0218 | f: (402) 476-9486

 <mailto:mmunozdeschell at nebraskachildren.org>
mmunozdeschell at nebraskachildren.org

 

Cultivating the good life for all of our children.

 <http://www.nebraskachildren.org/> www.NebraskaChildren.org


From davant1958 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  4 19:24:20 2023
From: davant1958 at gmail.com (davant1958 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2023 14:24:20 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] FW: senior attorney position at Access Living
In-Reply-To: <BL1PR14MB5143CED33B39A3DCF68AC328C7CBA@BL1PR14MB5143.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BL1PR14MB5143CED33B39A3DCF68AC328C7CBA@BL1PR14MB5143.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0fe601d9f6f8$608520c0$218f6240$@gmail.com>

Hello All,

I thought that someone might be interested in the forwarded email and the
attached job posting.

 

 

From: Ken Walden <KWalden at accessliving.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 1:58 PM
To: davant1958 at gmail.com
Subject: senior attorney position at Access Living

 

Good afternoon Denise. I somehow neglected to alert you of the following a
while back, but am happy to contact you now.

 

Mary Rosenberg, Senior Attorney, who was on the civil rights team for more
than 9 years, is moving on. She got a great opportunity at the DOJ in its
Housing & Civil Enforcement Section. We are super bummed to lose her, and
she leaves massive shoes to fill.

 

In any event, we are searching for an attorney.  We rarely have attorney
positions open up here, so this is a rare, but wonderful opportunity for
someone passionate about civil rights/disability rights.  We are looking for
someone with at least seven years of litigation experience.  The attached
posting, and the link below, provide more details.

 

If you can share this with anyone you know who might fit the bill, or anyone
you know who might refer others to us, please do.  We would be super
grateful.

 

Thanks a bunch, and hope you are well.

 

https://www.accessliving.org/get-involved/job-openings/senior-attorney-jobs-
at-access-living/

 

Ken

 

Kenneth M. Walden

Managing Attorney

Access Living of Metropolitan Chicago

115 West Chicago Avenue

Chicago, Illinois 60654

Voice:  312.640.2136

TTY:  312.640.2102

Fax:  312.640.2101

www.accessliving.org <http://www.accessliving.org> 

 

 

Kenneth M. Walden

Managing Attorney

Access Living of Metropolitan Chicago

115 West Chicago Avenue

Chicago, Illinois 60654

Voice:  312.640.2136

TTY:  312.640.2102

Fax:  312.640.2101

www.accessliving.org

 

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From jdg.gardner2009 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  7 20:23:11 2023
From: jdg.gardner2009 at gmail.com (John Gardner)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 15:23:11 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
Message-ID: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>

As someone who is going to law school in the near future I have a couple of questions.
1-Do you guys use victor reader stream and listen to your books? What is the best way for a law student to accomplish doing all the reading?
2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it personal preference?

Thanks
John Gardner

From sanho817 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  7 20:56:52 2023
From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 16:56:52 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
In-Reply-To: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
References: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75112F5F-5008-412F-9EFF-4C88FE9A4EE4@gmail.com>

I used JAWS or NVDA with Eloquence to read in Word on my laptop. I used a braille display for presentations where a screen-reader was impractical for some reason. And all of this is just personal preference. 

Warmth and good luck, 
Sanho 

> On Oct 7, 2023, at 4:24 PM, John Gardner via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> As someone who is going to law school in the near future I have a couple of questions.
> 1-Do you guys use victor reader stream and listen to your books? What is the best way for a law student to accomplish doing all the reading?
> 2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it personal preference?
> 
> Thanks
> John Gardner
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com


From ryan.james.menter at gmail.com  Sat Oct  7 21:25:35 2023
From: ryan.james.menter at gmail.com (Ryan Menter)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 17:25:35 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
In-Reply-To: <75112F5F-5008-412F-9EFF-4C88FE9A4EE4@gmail.com>
References: <75112F5F-5008-412F-9EFF-4C88FE9A4EE4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9D482C31-7AB9-4283-86DC-9E3E83001CCA@gmail.com>

Hi! I am currently in law school and use a braille display to take notes and read my books, but again everyone has their preference. Hope this helps.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 7, 2023, at 16:58, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I used JAWS or NVDA with Eloquence to read in Word on my laptop. I used a braille display for presentations where a screen-reader was impractical for some reason. And all of this is just personal preference. 
> 
> Warmth and good luck, 
> Sanho 
> 
>> On Oct 7, 2023, at 4:24 PM, John Gardner via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> As someone who is going to law school in the near future I have a couple of questions.
>> 1-Do you guys use victor reader stream and listen to your books? What is the best way for a law student to accomplish doing all the reading?
>> 2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it personal preference?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> John Gardner
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ryan.james.menter%40gmail.com


From laurenbishop96 at icloud.com  Sun Oct  8 01:37:18 2023
From: laurenbishop96 at icloud.com (Lauren Bishop)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 21:37:18 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
In-Reply-To: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
References: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0EDD28F-7201-4E88-82D7-2A9D922AA1B4@icloud.com>

> Hi Jonh,
> I get accessible PDF files of my textbooks from Disability Services. I read them on my laptop using jaws. I find that it is good practice to get used to working with large PDFs, because you are going to work with them if you choose to practice law. I use Qread, an accessible PDF reader that allows me to make bookmarks in my textbooks. I have also used Microsoft edge and Adobe. As for taking notes, I use Microsoft Word on my laptop and have my braille display connected or I just have one earbud in. That really depends on my mood. I don’t have a note taker. I’ve given up on those along time ago. Yes, they have advanced tremendously, but their reliability just isn’t there.  

From seifs at umich.edu  Sun Oct  8 02:26:25 2023
From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 22:26:25 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
In-Reply-To: <C0EDD28F-7201-4E88-82D7-2A9D922AA1B4@icloud.com>
References: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
 <C0EDD28F-7201-4E88-82D7-2A9D922AA1B4@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3kOQdjwZUtB9uo_NSg-iQbNonVWbQyRBP+ancExVW1kqJPXA@mail.gmail.com>

I also use JAWS. For pdf and other non-microsoft documents, I find
that abbyy, an ocr software (purchased), is helpful for converting
into accessible formats, particularly when the file contains scans
only.
Older-fassioned, I also convert files to txt and insert letters/words
that I can find later.
I used a braillenote in law school but find converting between kwb and
other formats now tiresome; I still might use it to read braiile,
especially for other languages.
I often find that procuring books in pdf is easier than finding and
listening to them on the victor stream, especially when needing to
extract or note something.
I personally preferred using a braillenote for taking notes, as it
kept my notes separate (file and device, so I could use the computer
to follow along in the book), though one can do that with a computer
too (even different windows/tabs on the same computer).
If really needed, an accommodation could be that a classmate also
takes notes for you, which helps if things are missed.
When reading documents, I really rely on the find command (control f)
and search for a relevant word/phrase. (When in editable files, I also
might insert a phrase [aaaa] for sections/things I wished to revisit.)
Realistically, there are times when the reading is too much, at which
prioritizing and skimming are key. I also copied and pasted
quotes/portions into a separate notes-type document.
At some point, one might need use a sighted helper for evidence or formatting.
Preparing for the future, make sure your school explicitly notes your
accommodations, as you will need this for the bar exam.
Happy to exchange numbers and phonechat.

Sincerely,
Seif


From michael.mcglashon at comcast.net  Sun Oct  8 06:14:38 2023
From: michael.mcglashon at comcast.net (MIKE MCGLASHON)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2023 01:14:38 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
In-Reply-To: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
References: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7bfc01d9f9ae$bb778be0$3266a3a0$@comcast.net>

Quoting:
2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it
personal preference?
End quote:
Well, for me, I recorded my classes in voice memos, and also took notes in
notepad simply because I am not that technologically inclined.


Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
AD9CA
Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
Ph: 618 783 9331

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of John Gardner via
BlindLaw
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 3:23 PM
To: NFB servers <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: John Gardner <jdg.gardner2009 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering

As someone who is going to law school in the near future I have a couple of
questions.
1-Do you guys use victor reader stream and listen to your books? What is the
best way for a law student to accomplish doing all the reading?
2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it
personal preference?

Thanks
John Gardner
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40co
mcast.net



From elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 00:04:17 2023
From: elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com (Elizabeth Rouse)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2023 19:04:17 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law
 Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade
In-Reply-To: <066b01d9e983$c53a2510$4fae6f30$@gmail.com>
References: <066b01d9e983$c53a2510$4fae6f30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANGwUJPYXLGnZayfC6Gz90UodW4QGaFR=CXCwDiThKHbGLRiEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Quick reminder to anyone who is interested to mark the below event on your
calendar. 10/18 at 8:30 PM Eastern time. We'll be discussing the process of
outlining as a law student as well as accommodations for new professionals
in the workplace.

Hope to see you there!
Elizabeth Rouse, She/her/hers
Board Member | National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL)
blindlawyers.net
Board Member | Performing Arts Division
nfb-pad.org
Elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com
(563) 210-1854
“If you can see yourself as an artist, and you can see that your life is
your own creation, then why not create the most beautiful story for
yourself?” - Miguel Ruiz


On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 11:27 AM Ronza Othman via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/elizabethrouse.nfb%40gmail.com
>

From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 03:11:18 2023
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie A. Orozco)
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2023 23:11:18 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
In-Reply-To: <7bfc01d9f9ae$bb778be0$3266a3a0$@comcast.net>
References: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
 <7bfc01d9f9ae$bb778be0$3266a3a0$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DKUgkbxhbxPApr-qfR4HGWVSaojxxeAA4GY407wGnJ=ww@mail.gmail.com>

As you can see, there are a variety of preferences on this topic. I'll
share mine in case it helps.

I read my books on the computer in the PDF files my school sends me. I
won and got my school to break them up for me because my computer has
a hard time with thousand-page files, but I could never get my PDFs
converted into Word for me. Sometimes I do it myself if I can get
Adobe to cooperate. I haven't had a Victor Stream in years, but if
you're used to reading books on there, it's not a bad choice,
especially if you can easily listen to books and take notes at the
same time. I take notes in a Word file on my computer, but I recognize
it would be more efficient to listen to something and take notes at
the same time as much as possible.

In class I use my Braille Note. This is because I have a hard time
listening to Jaws in one ear and my professors and classmates in the
other. It's just too much audio input for me, so I use Braille
whenever I can in class. Using Braille also allows me to read straight
from my notes when I get called on. I brief all my cases in my notes
and then can just refer easily to them when I have to tell the class
about it. If you are a confident Braille reader, this will a good
strategy for you.

I hope this helps.

Julie

On 10/8/23, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Quoting:
> 2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it
> personal preference?
> End quote:
> Well, for me, I recorded my classes in voice memos, and also took notes in
> notepad simply because I am not that technologically inclined.
>
>
> Please advise as you like.
>
> Mike M.
>
> Mike mcglashon
> AD9CA
> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
> Ph: 618 783 9331
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of John Gardner via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 3:23 PM
> To: NFB servers <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: John Gardner <jdg.gardner2009 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
>
> As someone who is going to law school in the near future I have a couple of
> questions.
> 1-Do you guys use victor reader stream and listen to your books? What is
> the
> best way for a law student to accomplish doing all the reading?
> 2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it
> personal preference?
>
> Thanks
> John Gardner
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40co
> mcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie A. Orozco
MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
Law, JD Candidate 2023


From Robert.Fenton at cnib.ca  Mon Oct  9 03:24:07 2023
From: Robert.Fenton at cnib.ca (Robert Fenton)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 03:24:07 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DKUgkbxhbxPApr-qfR4HGWVSaojxxeAA4GY407wGnJ=ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
 <7bfc01d9f9ae$bb778be0$3266a3a0$@comcast.net>
 <CAHox4DKUgkbxhbxPApr-qfR4HGWVSaojxxeAA4GY407wGnJ=ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <YQBPR0101MB4745C33D5201AF41288C244EFACEA@YQBPR0101MB4745.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I prefer a solution where I can copy and paste from my textbook into the document containing my notes. That way, I can refer to quotes from the cases that were highlighted by the professors in their lectures. This is where reviewing PDF files on a PC comes in handy.

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> on behalf of Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2023 9:11:18 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Julie A. Orozco <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Wondering

External Email / Courriel externe


As you can see, there are a variety of preferences on this topic. I'll
share mine in case it helps.

I read my books on the computer in the PDF files my school sends me. I
won and got my school to break them up for me because my computer has
a hard time with thousand-page files, but I could never get my PDFs
converted into Word for me. Sometimes I do it myself if I can get
Adobe to cooperate. I haven't had a Victor Stream in years, but if
you're used to reading books on there, it's not a bad choice,
especially if you can easily listen to books and take notes at the
same time. I take notes in a Word file on my computer, but I recognize
it would be more efficient to listen to something and take notes at
the same time as much as possible.

In class I use my Braille Note. This is because I have a hard time
listening to Jaws in one ear and my professors and classmates in the
other. It's just too much audio input for me, so I use Braille
whenever I can in class. Using Braille also allows me to read straight
from my notes when I get called on. I brief all my cases in my notes
and then can just refer easily to them when I have to tell the class
about it. If you are a confident Braille reader, this will a good
strategy for you.

I hope this helps.

Julie

On 10/8/23, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Quoting:
> 2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it
> personal preference?
> End quote:
> Well, for me, I recorded my classes in voice memos, and also took notes in
> notepad simply because I am not that technologically inclined.
>
>
> Please advise as you like.
>
> Mike M.
>
> Mike mcglashon
> AD9CA
> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
> Ph: 618 783 9331
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of John Gardner via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 3:23 PM
> To: NFB servers <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: John Gardner <jdg.gardner2009 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
>
> As someone who is going to law school in the near future I have a couple of
> questions.
> 1-Do you guys use victor reader stream and listen to your books? What is
> the
> best way for a law student to accomplish doing all the reading?
> 2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it
> personal preference?
>
> Thanks
> John Gardner
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> https://can01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=05%7C01%7C%7C053daaa095094ddd5ae608dbc87593d3%7Cfbd8a8d99ca948378d3ba5982af51080%7C0%7C0%7C638324179539033973%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DoRWT8zY7O1mFkDa6jvmQddR3VzXYayhpa6vVAn9OOo%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> https://can01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fmichael.mcglashon%2540co&data=05%7C01%7C%7C053daaa095094ddd5ae608dbc87593d3%7Cfbd8a8d99ca948378d3ba5982af51080%7C0%7C0%7C638324179539033973%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KnIiyDFALNEGZzX9wkXZnxMSSiu2lXQyfcKj1QwAuUw%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40co>
> mcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> https://can01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fkaybaycar%2540gmail.com&data=05%7C01%7C%7C053daaa095094ddd5ae608dbc87593d3%7Cfbd8a8d99ca948378d3ba5982af51080%7C0%7C0%7C638324179539033973%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pnNdpFLogEYV7623DzY0Lw3272U%2B2X3MZkj3XojdOJs%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com>
>


--
Julie A. Orozco
MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
Law, JD Candidate 2023

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
https://can01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=05%7C01%7C%7C053daaa095094ddd5ae608dbc87593d3%7Cfbd8a8d99ca948378d3ba5982af51080%7C0%7C0%7C638324179539033973%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DoRWT8zY7O1mFkDa6jvmQddR3VzXYayhpa6vVAn9OOo%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
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From teresitarios22 at gmail.com  Mon Oct  9 15:46:52 2023
From: teresitarios22 at gmail.com (Teresita Rios)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 11:46:52 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
In-Reply-To: <7bfc01d9f9ae$bb778be0$3266a3a0$@comcast.net>
References: <A3EEA989-ABC5-4C72-894B-ADF13590671D@gmail.com>
 <7bfc01d9f9ae$bb778be0$3266a3a0$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <31FBC999-4EBF-4347-9039-A24E83772EED@gmail.com>

I use VoiceOver on my Mac, and also Zoom with Spoken Content. I barely know Braille. So I usually used my earbud on one ear if I had to answer a question. But usually, I just took notes. I did ask my professors to always state the page number if they were reading from the text book or pdf.

From the school accommodations.     
I asked to have a seat reserved in the front near the professor and door. 
I requested word formatted versions of my textbooks, but PDFs were my second choice. 
I did request for a classmate to take notes during class, and those were useful for double-checking my notes. 

I personally asked the TA of deposition skills and other trial courses to meet with me outside of class and describe the evidence. Like the charts and images. 
I would make a Word doc just with the exhibits, with headings that had exhibit letter or numbers, and the original page number found on the case file. 

Best, 
Teresita 


> On Oct 8, 2023, at 2:14 AM, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Quoting:
> 2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it
> personal preference?
> End quote:
> Well, for me, I recorded my classes in voice memos, and also took notes in
> notepad simply because I am not that technologically inclined.
> 
> 
> Please advise as you like.
> 
> Mike M.
> 
> Mike mcglashon
> AD9CA
> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net <mailto:Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net>
> Ph: 618 783 9331
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of John Gardner via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 3:23 PM
> To: NFB servers <blindlaw at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
> Cc: John Gardner <jdg.gardner2009 at gmail.com <mailto:jdg.gardner2009 at gmail.com>>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Wondering
> 
> As someone who is going to law school in the near future I have a couple of
> questions.
> 1-Do you guys use victor reader stream and listen to your books? What is the
> best way for a law student to accomplish doing all the reading?
> 2- Is it better to use a notetaker in class for notes or a laptop or is it
> personal preference?
> 
> Thanks
> John Gardner
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40co
> mcast.net <http://mcast.net/>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org <mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/teresitarios22%40gmail.com


From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 10:07:49 2023
From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:37:49 +0530
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessible PDF Editing Solutions
Message-ID: <CADFycPY5Z4R75ko1UumFMJAv7Y0t_8m0TQahm_YmjWj0NmBxRA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

As a litigator, I have to often edit PDF documents. Add bookmarks, paginate
the pdf, ocr some aspects, among other functions. My understanding, backed
by some experience, is that adobe acrobat pro is not screen reader friendly
for this purpose. Could you please guide me as to what other PDF software I
can use for this purpose? Is Foxit Reader a good substitute? Thanks very
much.

Rahul

-- 
--
Rahul Bajaj
Attorney, Ira Law
Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
Human Rights Hub
Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
Court of India

From sanho817 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 10:18:50 2023
From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 06:18:50 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessible PDF Editing Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CADFycPY5Z4R75ko1UumFMJAv7Y0t_8m0TQahm_YmjWj0NmBxRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADFycPY5Z4R75ko1UumFMJAv7Y0t_8m0TQahm_YmjWj0NmBxRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77411E65-5C76-434E-AD67-94EAD3041F06@gmail.com>

We need a book with every question and answer we can think of, updated as new technology emerges. 

Sanho 

> On Oct 12, 2023, at 6:09 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> As a litigator, I have to often edit PDF documents. Add bookmarks, paginate
> the pdf, ocr some aspects, among other functions. My understanding, backed
> by some experience, is that adobe acrobat pro is not screen reader friendly
> for this purpose. Could you please guide me as to what other PDF software I
> can use for this purpose? Is Foxit Reader a good substitute? Thanks very
> much.
> 
> Rahul
> 
> -- 
> --
> Rahul Bajaj
> Attorney, Ira Law
> Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
> Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
> Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
> Human Rights Hub
> Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
> Court of India
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com


From seifs at umich.edu  Thu Oct 12 11:15:59 2023
From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 07:15:59 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessible PDF Editing Solutions
In-Reply-To: <77411E65-5C76-434E-AD67-94EAD3041F06@gmail.com>
References: <CADFycPY5Z4R75ko1UumFMJAv7Y0t_8m0TQahm_YmjWj0NmBxRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <77411E65-5C76-434E-AD67-94EAD3041F06@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3kOQcTN0A1rkzxjKH3oR7zdH5hLhQ4nzPQQSTr6+vRpezO-w@mail.gmail.com>

I have the older version and just convert the pdfs to other filetypes,
but maybe abby finereader helps?:

How to Add Bookmark to PDF Files | FineReader Blog
https://pdf.abbyy.com/blog/how-to-use-bookmarks-in-pdf/

Sincerely,
Seif


From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 12 11:27:02 2023
From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:57:02 +0530
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessible PDF Editing Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CA+3kOQcTN0A1rkzxjKH3oR7zdH5hLhQ4nzPQQSTr6+vRpezO-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADFycPY5Z4R75ko1UumFMJAv7Y0t_8m0TQahm_YmjWj0NmBxRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <77411E65-5C76-434E-AD67-94EAD3041F06@gmail.com>
 <CA+3kOQcTN0A1rkzxjKH3oR7zdH5hLhQ4nzPQQSTr6+vRpezO-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADFycPa=nM83P3r7YHE3=MGDC6YibU1VGM1MuAH9mxoBCo-y1A@mail.gmail.com>

For instance, are you folks able to access this PDF and the bookmarks in
it, using Adobe?

Rahul
 Zupee_Paperbook Cashgrail Private Limited v. Bl...
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/189ioq3cJ8MXfieqVv6S9wJPg7Y_sZana/view?usp=drive_web>


On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 16:46, Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> I have the older version and just convert the pdfs to other filetypes,
> but maybe abby finereader helps?:
>
> How to Add Bookmark to PDF Files | FineReader Blog
> https://pdf.abbyy.com/blog/how-to-use-bookmarks-in-pdf/
>
> Sincerely,
> Seif
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com
>


-- 
--
Rahul Bajaj
Attorney, Ira Law
Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
Human Rights Hub
Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
Court of India

From elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com  Tue Oct 17 13:00:00 2023
From: elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com (Elizabeth Rouse)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 08:00:00 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Final Reminder: OUtlining 101 & Young Professionals
 Accommodations/Modifications Discussion Happening 10/18 at 8:30 PM EST
Message-ID: <CANGwUJNBJ=9KbGmqdBPD6Tc1rS_GvbsVTytQKWa0CwD6ESuLnA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,



Please join us tomorrow night, October 18, at 8:30 PM Eastern for a
two-prong discussion geared toward law students and young, legal
professionals.



The first half of our call will be devoted to the topic of law school
outlines. What are they, how are they best utilized, etc.? The second half
will be a guided discussion on real-life accommodations and modifications
in legal professional spaces.



We’ll have a few guests joining us to help tackle these topics, and we’ve
provided them some questions ahead of time; however, it is our intent to
leave about 5-10 minutes per topic for questions.



Hop online with us using the below Zoom info, and reach out via email if
you’ve got questions.



Join Zoom Meeting:

https://nfb-org.zoom.us/j/92152608486



Meeting ID: 921 5260 8486



---



One tap mobile

+13017158592,,92152608486# US (Washington DC)

+16469313860,,92152608486# US



Join us and continue developing your network of support.



Hope to see you there,

Elizabeth

From tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 18 20:35:20 2023
From: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com (tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 16:35:20 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Senate Confirms Karla Gilbride as EEOC General Counsel!
Message-ID: <077601da0202$9d109230$d731b690$@gmail.com>

The Senate has finally confirmed Karla Gilbride for the long-vacated General
Counsel position at EEOC. Congratulations, Karla!   

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/senate-confirms-gilbride-fo
r-long-vacant-eeoc-top-lawyer-role


From rodalcidonis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 19 00:58:16 2023
From: rodalcidonis at gmail.com (rodalcidonis at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 20:58:16 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Senate Confirms Karla Gilbride as EEOC General
 Counsel!
In-Reply-To: <077601da0202$9d109230$d731b690$@gmail.com>
References: <077601da0202$9d109230$d731b690$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003f01da0227$5863da50$092b8ef0$@gmail.com>

Congratulations, Karla. Well-deserved.




Rod,

Rod Alcidonis, Esq.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via
BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 4:35 PM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com
Subject: [blindLaw] Senate Confirms Karla Gilbride as EEOC General Counsel!

The Senate has finally confirmed Karla Gilbride for the long-vacated General
Counsel position at EEOC. Congratulations, Karla!   

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/senate-confirms-gilbride-fo
r-long-vacant-eeoc-top-lawyer-role

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.c
om



From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Thu Oct 19 01:07:42 2023
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (rothmanjd at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 21:07:42 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Senate Vote on Karla Gilbride to EEOC General
 Counsel Position Today
In-Reply-To: <180323C6-73E4-43B2-92F6-F9EA9532786F@gmail.com>
References: <180323C6-73E4-43B2-92F6-F9EA9532786F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <052801da0228$aa09d750$fe1d85f0$@gmail.com>

All,

I'm thrilled to share that Karla Gilbride was confirmed yesterday, in a
bipartisan vote, as General Counsel to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission.  Karla is a member of the National Association of Blind Lawyers
and a truly talented and brilliant attorney.  She is the first blind person
to hold this role.

 

You may be familiar with Karla's ground-breaking work, including her arguing
before the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit.  She
previously served as co-director of Public Justice's Access to Justice
Project.  Karla graduated with honors from Georgetown Law in 2007 and
clerked for Judge Ronald Gould on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth
Circuit. She received her undergraduate degree from Swarthmore College with
highest honors in 2002 with a major in linguistics and minor in psychology.

 

Congratulations, Karla!

 

 

Ronza Othman, President

National Federation of the Blind of Maryland

443-426-4110

Pronouns: she, her, hers

 

From: Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 9:37 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org; blind-gov at nfbnet.org; nfbmd at nfbnet.org
Cc: greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org; nationalharbor at nfbnet.org;
nfbmdtlc-chapter at nfbnet.org; md-sligo at nfbnet.org;
md-baltimore-county at nfbnet.org; mdabs at nfbnet.org; mdpobc at nfbnet.org;
Maryland President <president at nfbmd.org>
Subject: Senate Vote on Karla Gilbride to EEOC General Counsel Position
Today

 

Friends, sometime today the United States Senate will vote on the
confirmation of Karla Gilbride as general counsel of the US Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission. Karla is a blind attorney from Maryland. There will
be two different votes, one to invoke cloture and the other the final vote.
The first vote should begin around approximately 2:15 p.m., and the second
vote should take place Later today. Below is a link in case folks want to
watch live. 



 <https://www.senate.gov/legislative/floor_activity_pail.htm> U.S. Senate:
Floor Proceedings

 <https://www.senate.gov/legislative/floor_activity_pail.htm> senate.gov

 <https://www.senate.gov/legislative/floor_activity_pail.htm> 

 

 

Ronza Othman, President

National Federation of the Blind of Maryland

443-426-4110

Sent from my iPhone


From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Oct 19 17:01:32 2023
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 17:01:32 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] =?windows-1252?q?No_More_=91Logic_Games=92_on_the_LSA?=
 =?windows-1252?q?T?=
In-Reply-To: <SA1PR09MB776087FAE3F487D5BC0BD134E4D4A@SA1PR09MB7760.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA1PR09MB776087FAE3F487D5BC0BD134E4D4A@SA1PR09MB7760.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SA9PR09MB545455E30155D6DE05AFE27AF9D4A@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>


https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quick-takes/2023/10/19/lsat-drops-analytical-reasoning-section-after-lawsuit

Excerpt:

The Law School Admissions Council is removing the logic games section from the Law School Admission Test starting in August 2024, according to an announcement<https://www.lsac.org/lsat/lsat-changes-coming-august-2024?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=101823%20-%20LSAT%20Update%20-%20Licensees&utm_content=101823%20-%20LSAT%20Update%20-%20Licensees+CID_b4485a6b7a31cec9b5390f229102d94c&utm_source=Campaign%20Monitor%20Email&utm_term=August%202024%20test> from the organization Wednesday. It’s one of the most significant changes to the exam in decades.
The change comes from accessibility concerns that were raised in a 2019 lawsuit<https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/10/us/lsat-blind-people-trnd/index.html> by a legally blind test taker, who argued that the games section—sometimes referred to as the analytical reasoning portion—heavily disadvantaged the sight impaired because of the importance of drawing diagrams and models to solve the problems. The plaintiff eventually reached a settlement<https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/statement-on-the-amicable-resolution-of-binno-v-lsac-lawsuit-300931402.html> with LSAC, the terms of which included a promise to re-evaluate the section within four years.
LSAC, which develops and administers the LSAT, said the decision was based on “rigorous research” that shows the elimination of the section will have “virtually no impact” on scores or the correlation between them and law school success.


From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 19 17:45:27 2023
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 13:45:27 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] 
 =?utf-8?q?No_More_=E2=80=98Logic_Games=E2=80=99_on_th?=
 =?utf-8?q?e_LSAT?=
In-Reply-To: <SA9PR09MB545455E30155D6DE05AFE27AF9D4A@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA9PR09MB545455E30155D6DE05AFE27AF9D4A@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E0C556BD-059D-4C74-A074-D97BBA3EA4C1@yahoo.com>

This is wonderful news and helps to reaffirm my at times battered belief in the possibility of progress toward a more accessible and fair future!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2023, at 1:03 PM, Nightingale, Noel via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quick-takes/2023/10/19/lsat-drops-analytical-reasoning-section-after-lawsuit
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> The Law School Admissions Council is removing the logic games section from the Law School Admission Test starting in August 2024, according to an announcement<https://www.lsac.org/lsat/lsat-changes-coming-august-2024?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=101823%20-%20LSAT%20Update%20-%20Licensees&utm_content=101823%20-%20LSAT%20Update%20-%20Licensees+CID_b4485a6b7a31cec9b5390f229102d94c&utm_source=Campaign%20Monitor%20Email&utm_term=August%202024%20test> from the organization Wednesday. It’s one of the most significant changes to the exam in decades.
> The change comes from accessibility concerns that were raised in a 2019 lawsuit<https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/10/us/lsat-blind-people-trnd/index.html> by a legally blind test taker, who argued that the games section—sometimes referred to as the analytical reasoning portion—heavily disadvantaged the sight impaired because of the importance of drawing diagrams and models to solve the problems. The plaintiff eventually reached a settlement<https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/statement-on-the-amicable-resolution-of-binno-v-lsac-lawsuit-300931402.html> with LSAC, the terms of which included a promise to re-evaluate the section within four years.
> LSAC, which develops and administers the LSAT, said the decision was based on “rigorous research” that shows the elimination of the section will have “virtually no impact” on scores or the correlation between them and law school success.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com



From EHill at browngold.com  Thu Oct 19 23:17:16 2023
From: EHill at browngold.com (Eve Hill)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 23:17:16 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Research Participant opportunity for lawyers with
 disabilities
Message-ID: <SA1PR18MB4647A34B782917DB4AB548C3B7D4A@SA1PR18MB4647.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>

In case you're interested in participating in this. Sounds interesting.

The Center for Democracy & Technology, in partnership with the AAPD, ACLU, and Coworker.org, is conducting a research project on disabled workers' experiences with modern selection procedures and computerized hiring processes. The project will involve a total of 16-18 participants, evenly split between workers who are interested in (or who may be referred to) two categories of jobs: part-time or entry-level hourly positions, and non-managerial attorney positions.

Participants will take computerized assessments and video interviews that simulate what workers may experience when applying for such positions in the real world. After participants complete these tasks, a member of the research team will interview each participant and ask them to share their experiences. The research team will then consolidate and analyze the participants' descriptions of their experiences and publish a report that identifies common themes and highlights any biases, accessibility barriers, and concerns that the participants encountered.

We expect the study to require 3-4 hours to complete, and study participants will receive $250 for their time. We have begun enrolling participants and hope to have all participants selected as soon as possible. We would like to set up a call to talk with you about this project and potentially tap into your organization's network to find workers who would be interested in participating in the study.


For Participants (Lawyers)

A group of nonprofit organizations is conducting a study on disabled workers' experiences with modern hiring techniques. One group of participants for this study will be disabled attorneys and law students. Participants will complete tasks, such as assessments and a video interview, that are similar to what workers may experience when applying for attorney positions in the real world. A member of the research team will interview each participant after they complete these tasks and ask them to share their experiences. We expect the study to take 3-4 hours to complete, and participants will receive $250 for their time.
If you identify as disabled, plan to apply for attorney positions in the next three years (or are currently working as an attorney), and are interested in participating in this study, please complete this short survey<https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7486631/AEDT-Project-Screen>. You will receive a $5 Visa gift card for completing the survey, regardless of whether you are selected for the study. Please reach out to us at hiring.research.2023 at cdt.org<mailto:hiring.research.2023 at cdt.org> if you have any questions.

Eve Hill
Attorney
BROWN GOLDSTEIN & LEVY
120 E. Baltimore Street, Suite 2500
Baltimore, MD  21202
T      410.962.1030 x1311
C      202.802.0925
F     410.385.0869
E     ehill at browngold.com<mailto:ehill at browngold.com>
Admitted in Maine, DC, California, Maryland, Virginia
Pronouns: she/her/hers

About Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP
Brown, Goldstein & Levy handles both civil and criminal litigation and has active practices in many other areas of the law, including family law, disability rights, and health care. For more information, visit browngold.com<http://browngold.com/>.
CONFIDENTIALITY:  This email and any attachments are confidential, except where the email states it can be disclosed; it may also be privileged. If received in error, please do not disclose the contents to anyone, but notify the sender by return email and delete this email (and any attachments) from your system. Thank you.

Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.

From lmendez716 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 13:51:45 2023
From: lmendez716 at gmail.com (lmendez716 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 09:51:45 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley
Message-ID: <002501da035c$909b43a0$b1d1cae0$@gmail.com>

Good morning, all:

 

I want to congratulate my friend and NFB-NEWSLINE NY colleague, Maura for
passing the New York State Bar Exame.  She has worked very hard the past 10
years to reach this significant milestone.  Now she can focus on her new job
knowing that it is no longer contingent on her Bar exam results.

 

Luis

 

Luis A. Mendez, Director

NFB-NEWSLINE NY

 <mailto:newsline at nfbny.org> newsline at nfbny.org

315.596.2795

 


From sanho817 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 15:47:44 2023
From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 11:47:44 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley
In-Reply-To: <002501da035c$909b43a0$b1d1cae0$@gmail.com>
References: <002501da035c$909b43a0$b1d1cae0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E75A04AC-803B-466F-BA86-B16556B8CD0F@gmail.com>

A heartfelt congratulations to those who passed. To those who did not, please remember that there could be a hundred reasons why. Passing is a huge relief, but not passing is not a reflection on you or your ability to be an attorney. 

Warmth and well wishes for all, 
Sanho 

> On Oct 20, 2023, at 9:53 AM, Luis A. Mendez via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, all:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to congratulate my friend and NFB-NEWSLINE NY colleague, Maura for
> passing the New York State Bar Exame.  She has worked very hard the past 10
> years to reach this significant milestone.  Now she can focus on her new job
> knowing that it is no longer contingent on her Bar exam results.
> 
> 
> 
> Luis
> 
> 
> 
> Luis A. Mendez, Director
> 
> NFB-NEWSLINE NY
> 
> <mailto:newsline at nfbny.org> newsline at nfbny.org
> 
> 315.596.2795
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com


From marshall at blindlawyers.org  Fri Oct 20 16:05:11 2023
From: marshall at blindlawyers.org (Scott Marshall)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 16:05:11 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley
In-Reply-To: <E75A04AC-803B-466F-BA86-B16556B8CD0F@gmail.com>
References: <002501da035c$909b43a0$b1d1cae0$@gmail.com>
 <E75A04AC-803B-466F-BA86-B16556B8CD0F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR10MB3338DFCB4167F2318CAB4FA2A0DBA@DM6PR10MB3338.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Absolutely! Well said Sanho. I wish Maura all the best in her career.

Scott


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 11:48 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley

A heartfelt congratulations to those who passed. To those who did not, please remember that there could be a hundred reasons why. Passing is a huge relief, but not passing is not a reflection on you or your ability to be an attorney. 

Warmth and well wishes for all,
Sanho 

> On Oct 20, 2023, at 9:53 AM, Luis A. Mendez via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, all:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to congratulate my friend and NFB-NEWSLINE NY colleague, Maura 
> for passing the New York State Bar Exame.  She has worked very hard 
> the past 10 years to reach this significant milestone.  Now she can 
> focus on her new job knowing that it is no longer contingent on her Bar exam results.
> 
> 
> 
> Luis
> 
> 
> 
> Luis A. Mendez, Director
> 
> NFB-NEWSLINE NY
> 
> <mailto:newsline at nfbny.org> newsline at nfbny.org
> 
> 315.596.2795
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail
> .com

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marshall%40blindlawyers.org

From raywayne1959 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 19:06:24 2023
From: raywayne1959 at gmail.com (raywayne1959 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 15:06:24 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley
In-Reply-To: <002501da035c$909b43a0$b1d1cae0$@gmail.com>
References: <002501da035c$909b43a0$b1d1cae0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002701da0388$85971e80$90c55b80$@gmail.com>

Congratulations, Maura!
Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Luis A. Mendez via
BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 9:52 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: lmendez716 at gmail.com
Subject: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley

Good morning, all:

 

I want to congratulate my friend and NFB-NEWSLINE NY colleague, Maura for
passing the New York State Bar Exame.  She has worked very hard the past 10
years to reach this significant milestone.  Now she can focus on her new job
knowing that it is no longer contingent on her Bar exam results.

 

Luis

 

Luis A. Mendez, Director

NFB-NEWSLINE NY

 <mailto:newsline at nfbny.org> newsline at nfbny.org

315.596.2795

 

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/raywayne1959%40gmail.c
om



From tmatzick06 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 20 21:46:44 2023
From: tmatzick06 at gmail.com (Tara Chavez)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 15:46:44 -0600
Subject: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley
In-Reply-To: <002501da035c$909b43a0$b1d1cae0$@gmail.com>
References: <002501da035c$909b43a0$b1d1cae0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <097801da039e$eb837cf0$c28a76d0$@gmail.com>

Congratulations, Maura!!!!!!!!


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Luis A. Mendez via
BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 7:52 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: lmendez716 at gmail.com
Subject: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley

Good morning, all:

 

I want to congratulate my friend and NFB-NEWSLINE NY colleague, Maura for
passing the New York State Bar Exame.  She has worked very hard the past 10
years to reach this significant milestone.  Now she can focus on her new job
knowing that it is no longer contingent on her Bar exam results.

 

Luis

 

Luis A. Mendez, Director

NFB-NEWSLINE NY

 <mailto:newsline at nfbny.org> newsline at nfbny.org

315.596.2795

 

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tmatzick06%40gmail.com



From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 02:07:47 2023
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (rothmanjd at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 22:07:47 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Job Opportunity: Government Affairs Manager
Message-ID: <0b2301da03c3$636a5530$2a3eff90$@gmail.com>

Please find a job posting for a Government Affairs Manager position below.  

 

 <https://pogo.breezy.hr/p/08507f265d2c-government-affairs-manager>
Government Affairs Manager at Project On Government Oversight

 <https://pogo.breezy.hr/p/08507f265d2c-government-affairs-manager>
pogo.breezy.hr

 

Ronza Othman, President

National Federation of the Blind of Maryland

443-426-4110

Pronouns: she, her, hers

 

The National Federation of the Blind of Maryland knows that blindness is not
the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the
expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles
between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want;
blindness is not what holds you back

 

_______________________________________________
Greater-Baltimore mailing list
Greater-Baltimore at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/greater-baltimore_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Greater-Baltimore:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/greater-baltimore_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40g
mail.com



From miguel.casillas1 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 04:48:37 2023
From: miguel.casillas1 at gmail.com (miguel casillas)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:48:37 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley
In-Reply-To: <097801da039e$eb837cf0$c28a76d0$@gmail.com>
References: <002501da035c$909b43a0$b1d1cae0$@gmail.com>
 <097801da039e$eb837cf0$c28a76d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOB+nnUozRLXFrnm=XRuh7e=hHsic2rEwDJW7tX=viewZXA81w@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats!

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 2:47 PM Tara Chavez via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Congratulations, Maura!!!!!!!!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Luis A. Mendez
> via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 7:52 AM
> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: lmendez716 at gmail.com
> Subject: [blindLaw] Congratulations to Maura Kutnyak-Smalley
>
> Good morning, all:
>
>
>
> I want to congratulate my friend and NFB-NEWSLINE NY colleague, Maura for
> passing the New York State Bar Exame.  She has worked very hard the past 10
> years to reach this significant milestone.  Now she can focus on her new
> job
> knowing that it is no longer contingent on her Bar exam results.
>
>
>
> Luis
>
>
>
> Luis A. Mendez, Director
>
> NFB-NEWSLINE NY
>
>  <mailto:newsline at nfbny.org> newsline at nfbny.org
>
> 315.596.2795
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tmatzick06%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/miguel.casillas1%40gmail.com
>

From paigecmiller6 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 17:48:14 2023
From: paigecmiller6 at gmail.com (Paige)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:48:14 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
Message-ID: <97F4E128-F75A-4DB9-84E2-01153CFBACCB@gmail.com>

Hi! 

I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS. 

My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams - usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or crossword. I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well to group work. 

For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries, but the quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the citation, only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the class has been no better…

I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my concerns to my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have part 2 of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!

Thanks everyone!!

Paige

From jeffjayjohnston at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 19:13:02 2023
From: jeffjayjohnston at gmail.com (J Johnston)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:13:02 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <97F4E128-F75A-4DB9-84E2-01153CFBACCB@gmail.com>
References: <97F4E128-F75A-4DB9-84E2-01153CFBACCB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07b101da0452$9d297460$d77c5d20$@gmail.com>

Hello Paige,

About your research challenges...  Does your school have Westlaw and Lexis Nexis representatives?  They might be able to give you one-on-one coaching.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Paige via BlindLaw
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2023 10:48 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: Paige <paigecmiller6 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing

Hi! 

I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS. 

My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams - usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or crossword. I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well to group work. 

For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries, but the quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the citation, only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the class has been no better…

I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my concerns to my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have part 2 of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!

Thanks everyone!!

Paige
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jeffjayjohnston%40gmail.com



From miguel.casillas1 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 19:27:12 2023
From: miguel.casillas1 at gmail.com (miguel casillas)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:27:12 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <97F4E128-F75A-4DB9-84E2-01153CFBACCB@gmail.com>
References: <97F4E128-F75A-4DB9-84E2-01153CFBACCB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOB+nnUhcf+Czr0cbL8YkDWsc7e=UBZempzRuoWnmBs6MkauuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paige,
What an odd way to structure an LRW course. What law school do you
attend? Are you using a platform like canvas? I think for us they just
threw bluebooks and casebooks at us as everything was going online. The
only thing I'd suggest is to request printed assignments without the game
portion. Or team up with a study buddy and let them handle that part.
Best of luck,
Miguel

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 10:49 AM Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS.
>
> My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams -
> usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or crossword.
> I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well to
> group work.
>
> For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an
> alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries, but the
> quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the citation,
> only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the class
> has been no better…
>
> I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over
> time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my concerns to
> my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have part 2
> of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!
>
> Thanks everyone!!
>
> Paige
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/miguel.casillas1%40gmail.com
>

From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 19:30:08 2023
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine Busanelli)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 14:30:08 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <97F4E128-F75A-4DB9-84E2-01153CFBACCB@gmail.com>
References: <97F4E128-F75A-4DB9-84E2-01153CFBACCB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrAFdhm455DzkEN0fgh49wAi=rH2hFU=9DOb411k63=__A@mail.gmail.com>

I had something similar, happened to me during my 1L year, where we were
forced to do an online timed quiz, which was difficult for me to see due to
my vision disability. I ended up, dropping the class and taking it again
with a different professor who didn’t have such expectations. I did go to
the disability services office at my school and let them know of the issue.
If you haven’t done that already, speak with the disability accommodations
department, I recommend that.

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:49 PM Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS.
>
> My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams -
> usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or crossword.
> I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well to
> group work.
>
> For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an
> alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries, but the
> quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the citation,
> only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the class
> has been no better…
>
> I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over
> time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my concerns to
> my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have part 2
> of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!
>
> Thanks everyone!!
>
> Paige
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>

From sanho817 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 19:37:05 2023
From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 15:37:05 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrAFdhm455DzkEN0fgh49wAi=rH2hFU=9DOb411k63=__A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97F4E128-F75A-4DB9-84E2-01153CFBACCB@gmail.com>
 <CACYGDrAFdhm455DzkEN0fgh49wAi=rH2hFU=9DOb411k63=__A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL6jpeyjop6CUybPzuUd9g0syybTzyn4LO0oGd8NT7gDO2M0Kg@mail.gmail.com>

Paige:

Feel free to text or call to discuss. Happy to troubleshoot. I know
there can be any number   of variables.

Sanho

On 10/21/23, Christine Busanelli via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I had something similar, happened to me during my 1L year, where we were
> forced to do an online timed quiz, which was difficult for me to see due to
> my vision disability. I ended up, dropping the class and taking it again
> with a different professor who didn’t have such expectations. I did go to
> the disability services office at my school and let them know of the issue.
> If you haven’t done that already, speak with the disability accommodations
> department, I recommend that.
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:49 PM Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS.
>>
>> My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams -
>> usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or
>> crossword.
>> I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well to
>> group work.
>>
>> For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an
>> alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries, but
>> the
>> quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the citation,
>> only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the class
>> has been no better…
>>
>> I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over
>> time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my concerns to
>> my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have part 2
>> of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!
>>
>> Thanks everyone!!
>>
>> Paige
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>


-- 
He/Him


From paigecmiller6 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 21 19:58:12 2023
From: paigecmiller6 at gmail.com (Paige)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:58:12 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <CAL6jpeyjop6CUybPzuUd9g0syybTzyn4LO0oGd8NT7gDO2M0Kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL6jpeyjop6CUybPzuUd9g0syybTzyn4LO0oGd8NT7gDO2M0Kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9C14D00-C0DB-409C-A6FE-9B6A9026BBA8@gmail.com>

Hi,

To answer everyone’s questions:

1. I have gone to the disability office, and outside of providing me the alternate format assignments, they have been little help. 

2. I’ve considered dropping the class, but the entire research and writing department is structured like this! Ugh!

3. I am using word doc formats of the assignments, but i’m still somehow expected to complete the regular assignment as a team, which ends up causing my team extra work. I’ve asked to work alone, and do the alternate assignments, but my professor won’t allow that.  

5. Asking for the help of the research reps at my school is a great idea, thanks!!! 

Paige 

> On Oct 21, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Paige:
> 
> Feel free to text or call to discuss. Happy to troubleshoot. I know
> there can be any number   of variables.
> 
> Sanho
> 
>> On 10/21/23, Christine Busanelli via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I had something similar, happened to me during my 1L year, where we were
>> forced to do an online timed quiz, which was difficult for me to see due to
>> my vision disability. I ended up, dropping the class and taking it again
>> with a different professor who didn’t have such expectations. I did go to
>> the disability services office at my school and let them know of the issue.
>> If you haven’t done that already, speak with the disability accommodations
>> department, I recommend that.
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:49 PM Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> 
>>> I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS.
>>> 
>>> My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams -
>>> usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or
>>> crossword.
>>> I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well to
>>> group work.
>>> 
>>> For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an
>>> alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries, but
>>> the
>>> quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the citation,
>>> only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the class
>>> has been no better…
>>> 
>>> I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over
>>> time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my concerns to
>>> my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have part 2
>>> of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone!!
>>> 
>>> Paige
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> He/Him
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paigecmiller6%40gmail.com


From nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu  Sat Oct 21 23:03:01 2023
From: nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu (Nandini Singh)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 19:03:01 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <A9C14D00-C0DB-409C-A6FE-9B6A9026BBA8@gmail.com>
References: <CAL6jpeyjop6CUybPzuUd9g0syybTzyn4LO0oGd8NT7gDO2M0Kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <A9C14D00-C0DB-409C-A6FE-9B6A9026BBA8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADv2uY=eSDeVYngTx5_y4ocMQ3_b-FisKP0AWKQibjqTv9qOkg@mail.gmail.com>

Based on your description, your legal writing and research courses
appear to be one of the more peculiar ways to impart those skills.
Legal drafting by crossword puzzle does not reflect actual practice,
and it presents unnecessary challenges to blind folks. You must insist
on the following high level points that you should supplement in light
of your specific situation:

•	Linear structure/format to the exercises: Unless you can receive
Excel spreadsheets that are at least minimally formatted and/or tagged
to facilitate accessibility with JAWS, you should not be using
crosswords or puzzles but instead responding to a prompt, working
through a mock law suit, or workshopping actual work product. This is
how I have always taken legal writing and research classes and
seminars.
•	Timely and meaningful feedback: You need to understand in sufficient
detail where you are making mistakes in formatting, style, diction, or
bluebooking, or else you will not improve. A TA or reader (to be paid
for by the school) should work with you to convey feedback if the
crossword-quiz cannot otherwise be presented in a more conventional,
linear format, e.g., locate the issue in the following citation.
•	Adaptations are extra work but nevertheless important: Sometimes the
instructor or TA will have to grade two sets of assignments: yors and
the rest of the class. Good instructors can and will do this because
they recognize that you have to learn differently, e.g., during
college, my professor in formal logic reviewed my materials separately
because I invented an alternate logic code to allow me to use my
Braille Note to complete assignments. The same professor made himself
available during office hours (or otherwise) if I had questions, and
the school provided me a reader for in-class lectures so I could
access the content of the blackboard, which was full of long lines of
logical syntax at the end of the session.
•	Nuanced adaptations: Restructuring the format or assignments must
still instruct you on the skills for you to progress to the next level
but should not present obstacles because the exercises or drills are
premised on having sight. Having sight is fundamentally immaterial to
conducting legal research or producing quality written work product.
The course must be appropriately adapted for you to learn what you
need to know non-visually so you can advance in the spring.
•	Absent the above ideas, the school is wasting your time. You are
paying decent money to be there. The school cannot fail to provide
reasonable accommodations in the course delivery and evaluation and
then fail you for poor performance. Unfortunately, you have to make
sure that the circumstances in the prior sentence do not come to pass.
You should insist that the current course adaptations are inadequate
for your basic goals and that they need to be further refined.

Sincerely,
Nikki


On 10/21/23, Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> To answer everyone’s questions:
>
> 1. I have gone to the disability office, and outside of providing me the
> alternate format assignments, they have been little help.
>
> 2. I’ve considered dropping the class, but the entire research and writing
> department is structured like this! Ugh!
>
> 3. I am using word doc formats of the assignments, but i’m still somehow
> expected to complete the regular assignment as a team, which ends up causing
> my team extra work. I’ve asked to work alone, and do the alternate
> assignments, but my professor won’t allow that.
>
> 5. Asking for the help of the research reps at my school is a great idea,
> thanks!!!
>
> Paige
>
>> On Oct 21, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Paige:
>>
>> Feel free to text or call to discuss. Happy to troubleshoot. I know
>> there can be any number   of variables.
>>
>> Sanho
>>
>>> On 10/21/23, Christine Busanelli via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> I had something similar, happened to me during my 1L year, where we were
>>> forced to do an online timed quiz, which was difficult for me to see due
>>> to
>>> my vision disability. I ended up, dropping the class and taking it again
>>> with a different professor who didn’t have such expectations. I did go to
>>> the disability services office at my school and let them know of the
>>> issue.
>>> If you haven’t done that already, speak with the disability
>>> accommodations
>>> department, I recommend that.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:49 PM Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS.
>>>>
>>>> My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams -
>>>> usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or
>>>> crossword.
>>>> I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well
>>>> to
>>>> group work.
>>>>
>>>> For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an
>>>> alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries, but
>>>> the
>>>> quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the citation,
>>>> only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the
>>>> class
>>>> has been no better…
>>>>
>>>> I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over
>>>> time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my concerns
>>>> to
>>>> my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have part
>>>> 2
>>>> of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone!!
>>>>
>>>> Paige
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> He/Him
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paigecmiller6%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Sun Oct 22 01:48:55 2023
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie A. Orozco)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:48:55 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <CADv2uY=eSDeVYngTx5_y4ocMQ3_b-FisKP0AWKQibjqTv9qOkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL6jpeyjop6CUybPzuUd9g0syybTzyn4LO0oGd8NT7gDO2M0Kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <A9C14D00-C0DB-409C-A6FE-9B6A9026BBA8@gmail.com>
 <CADv2uY=eSDeVYngTx5_y4ocMQ3_b-FisKP0AWKQibjqTv9qOkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4D+VgasX61AiU5_G40UcckMRoeUG9szQbOjRfwgBCGXS1A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paige,

OMg wow, legal rhetoric is hard enough. I'm going to add what has
already been advised here, but I agree with all of it.

As an accommodation, you should get extra time on assignments. Every
professor should know this, and when they set up quizzes online, they
must either change the time constraints for everyone or find a way to
offer you a separate option. I had this happen to me as a 1L, and it
only happened once. After I suffered through the first timed quiz and
then complained to the disability services office, the professor
changed his quizzes so that no one would be timed.

As for the group assignments, you should be given accessible versions
of everything the group is looking at. It sounds like the nature of
some of the work is visual though. Getting an accessible crossword
won't help if your classmates can just visually glance at it and get
some of the answers before you're done reading. I would ask for all
such materials in advance so that you can look over them before you
meet with your group. That way you have a similar advantage to their
quickly-skimming eyeballs.

In my experience, I got very little useful feedback in legal rhetoric.
Most of it was too vague to be useful or provided me with very little
understanding of how to improve. I agree about getting a reader to
help you look over your work. This will be especially helpful for
finding weird formatting errors and looking over Bluebook citations.
For your writing, I would ask your classmates if they are getting any
useful feedback. Odds are strong that they are not and that you are
all in the same sinking boat. But the Bluebooking should be a little
clearer because that's a concrete skill that can easily be measured.
You should be able to see what you've done right and wrong on Bluebook
assignments, and if you're not getting that feedback, then you should
figure out how the rest of the class is getting it and find an
accommodation for getting the same information.

As for research, I ended up contacting someone in my law school's
library. She understood how screen readers worked, and she was great
at looking at Lexis and Westlaw with me. The problem with learning
research as a 1L is that they use videos to teach it, which are not at
all useful to us, even with descriptions. I found that for me, the
only thing that worked was repeatedly using those web platforms.

Feel free to reach out to me off list if you wish. I'm currently a 3L,
and I struggled hard in legal rhetoric. So sadly, I know how it is to
struggle in that class.

Julie


On 10/21/23, Nandini Singh via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Based on your description, your legal writing and research courses
> appear to be one of the more peculiar ways to impart those skills.
> Legal drafting by crossword puzzle does not reflect actual practice,
> and it presents unnecessary challenges to blind folks. You must insist
> on the following high level points that you should supplement in light
> of your specific situation:
>
> •	Linear structure/format to the exercises: Unless you can receive
> Excel spreadsheets that are at least minimally formatted and/or tagged
> to facilitate accessibility with JAWS, you should not be using
> crosswords or puzzles but instead responding to a prompt, working
> through a mock law suit, or workshopping actual work product. This is
> how I have always taken legal writing and research classes and
> seminars.
> •	Timely and meaningful feedback: You need to understand in sufficient
> detail where you are making mistakes in formatting, style, diction, or
> bluebooking, or else you will not improve. A TA or reader (to be paid
> for by the school) should work with you to convey feedback if the
> crossword-quiz cannot otherwise be presented in a more conventional,
> linear format, e.g., locate the issue in the following citation.
> •	Adaptations are extra work but nevertheless important: Sometimes the
> instructor or TA will have to grade two sets of assignments: yors and
> the rest of the class. Good instructors can and will do this because
> they recognize that you have to learn differently, e.g., during
> college, my professor in formal logic reviewed my materials separately
> because I invented an alternate logic code to allow me to use my
> Braille Note to complete assignments. The same professor made himself
> available during office hours (or otherwise) if I had questions, and
> the school provided me a reader for in-class lectures so I could
> access the content of the blackboard, which was full of long lines of
> logical syntax at the end of the session.
> •	Nuanced adaptations: Restructuring the format or assignments must
> still instruct you on the skills for you to progress to the next level
> but should not present obstacles because the exercises or drills are
> premised on having sight. Having sight is fundamentally immaterial to
> conducting legal research or producing quality written work product.
> The course must be appropriately adapted for you to learn what you
> need to know non-visually so you can advance in the spring.
> •	Absent the above ideas, the school is wasting your time. You are
> paying decent money to be there. The school cannot fail to provide
> reasonable accommodations in the course delivery and evaluation and
> then fail you for poor performance. Unfortunately, you have to make
> sure that the circumstances in the prior sentence do not come to pass.
> You should insist that the current course adaptations are inadequate
> for your basic goals and that they need to be further refined.
>
> Sincerely,
> Nikki
>
>
> On 10/21/23, Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> To answer everyone’s questions:
>>
>> 1. I have gone to the disability office, and outside of providing me the
>> alternate format assignments, they have been little help.
>>
>> 2. I’ve considered dropping the class, but the entire research and writing
>> department is structured like this! Ugh!
>>
>> 3. I am using word doc formats of the assignments, but i’m still somehow
>> expected to complete the regular assignment as a team, which ends up
>> causing
>> my team extra work. I’ve asked to work alone, and do the alternate
>> assignments, but my professor won’t allow that.
>>
>> 5. Asking for the help of the research reps at my school is a great idea,
>> thanks!!!
>>
>> Paige
>>
>>> On Oct 21, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Paige:
>>>
>>> Feel free to text or call to discuss. Happy to troubleshoot. I know
>>> there can be any number   of variables.
>>>
>>> Sanho
>>>
>>>> On 10/21/23, Christine Busanelli via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I had something similar, happened to me during my 1L year, where we were
>>>> forced to do an online timed quiz, which was difficult for me to see due
>>>> to
>>>> my vision disability. I ended up, dropping the class and taking it again
>>>> with a different professor who didn’t have such expectations. I did go
>>>> to
>>>> the disability services office at my school and let them know of the
>>>> issue.
>>>> If you haven’t done that already, speak with the disability
>>>> accommodations
>>>> department, I recommend that.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:49 PM Paige via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS.
>>>>>
>>>>> My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams -
>>>>> usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or
>>>>> crossword.
>>>>> I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well
>>>>> to
>>>>> group work.
>>>>>
>>>>> For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an
>>>>> alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries, but
>>>>> the
>>>>> quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the citation,
>>>>> only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the
>>>>> class
>>>>> has been no better…
>>>>>
>>>>> I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over
>>>>> time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my concerns
>>>>> to
>>>>> my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have
>>>>> part
>>>>> 2
>>>>> of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks everyone!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Paige
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> He/Him
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paigecmiller6%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie A. Orozco
MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
Law, JD Candidate 2023


From nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu  Sun Oct 22 02:43:46 2023
From: nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu (Nikki Singh)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 22:43:46 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4D+VgasX61AiU5_G40UcckMRoeUG9szQbOjRfwgBCGXS1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL6jpeyjop6CUybPzuUd9g0syybTzyn4LO0oGd8NT7gDO2M0Kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <A9C14D00-C0DB-409C-A6FE-9B6A9026BBA8@gmail.com>
 <CADv2uY=eSDeVYngTx5_y4ocMQ3_b-FisKP0AWKQibjqTv9qOkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHox4D+VgasX61AiU5_G40UcckMRoeUG9szQbOjRfwgBCGXS1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADv2uYnJCn4jkrAduKvhH-LHKfEAhYW9Y1GRDogYn0G3Y7Lz4g@mail.gmail.com>

Julie's response reminds me to add that you should become good friends
with your law school's library staff. They can scan printed materials
for you. Mine did, which was helpful at the start of the semester when
I was waiting for the disability office to complete scanning all my
course textbooks. More relevantly, they should be able to direct you
to your school's Westlaw and Lexis reps. The reps' job is to get you
introduced and reasonably comfortable with using these two mainstream
services to conduct basic research into case law, statutes,
regulations, and law review articles. You will invariably expand
beyond that over time. For now, you can request that you work with a
rep one-on-one till you are confident to start using Westlaw/Lexis on
your own. From there, you can delve into more advanced research
techniques, either on your own or with another one-on-one session with
a rep.

Sincerely,
Nikki


On 10/21/23, Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Paige,
>
> OMg wow, legal rhetoric is hard enough. I'm going to add what has
> already been advised here, but I agree with all of it.
>
> As an accommodation, you should get extra time on assignments. Every
> professor should know this, and when they set up quizzes online, they
> must either change the time constraints for everyone or find a way to
> offer you a separate option. I had this happen to me as a 1L, and it
> only happened once. After I suffered through the first timed quiz and
> then complained to the disability services office, the professor
> changed his quizzes so that no one would be timed.
>
> As for the group assignments, you should be given accessible versions
> of everything the group is looking at. It sounds like the nature of
> some of the work is visual though. Getting an accessible crossword
> won't help if your classmates can just visually glance at it and get
> some of the answers before you're done reading. I would ask for all
> such materials in advance so that you can look over them before you
> meet with your group. That way you have a similar advantage to their
> quickly-skimming eyeballs.
>
> In my experience, I got very little useful feedback in legal rhetoric.
> Most of it was too vague to be useful or provided me with very little
> understanding of how to improve. I agree about getting a reader to
> help you look over your work. This will be especially helpful for
> finding weird formatting errors and looking over Bluebook citations.
> For your writing, I would ask your classmates if they are getting any
> useful feedback. Odds are strong that they are not and that you are
> all in the same sinking boat. But the Bluebooking should be a little
> clearer because that's a concrete skill that can easily be measured.
> You should be able to see what you've done right and wrong on Bluebook
> assignments, and if you're not getting that feedback, then you should
> figure out how the rest of the class is getting it and find an
> accommodation for getting the same information.
>
> As for research, I ended up contacting someone in my law school's
> library. She understood how screen readers worked, and she was great
> at looking at Lexis and Westlaw with me. The problem with learning
> research as a 1L is that they use videos to teach it, which are not at
> all useful to us, even with descriptions. I found that for me, the
> only thing that worked was repeatedly using those web platforms.
>
> Feel free to reach out to me off list if you wish. I'm currently a 3L,
> and I struggled hard in legal rhetoric. So sadly, I know how it is to
> struggle in that class.
>
> Julie
>
>
> On 10/21/23, Nandini Singh via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Based on your description, your legal writing and research courses
>> appear to be one of the more peculiar ways to impart those skills.
>> Legal drafting by crossword puzzle does not reflect actual practice,
>> and it presents unnecessary challenges to blind folks. You must insist
>> on the following high level points that you should supplement in light
>> of your specific situation:
>>
>> •	Linear structure/format to the exercises: Unless you can receive
>> Excel spreadsheets that are at least minimally formatted and/or tagged
>> to facilitate accessibility with JAWS, you should not be using
>> crosswords or puzzles but instead responding to a prompt, working
>> through a mock law suit, or workshopping actual work product. This is
>> how I have always taken legal writing and research classes and
>> seminars.
>> •	Timely and meaningful feedback: You need to understand in sufficient
>> detail where you are making mistakes in formatting, style, diction, or
>> bluebooking, or else you will not improve. A TA or reader (to be paid
>> for by the school) should work with you to convey feedback if the
>> crossword-quiz cannot otherwise be presented in a more conventional,
>> linear format, e.g., locate the issue in the following citation.
>> •	Adaptations are extra work but nevertheless important: Sometimes the
>> instructor or TA will have to grade two sets of assignments: yors and
>> the rest of the class. Good instructors can and will do this because
>> they recognize that you have to learn differently, e.g., during
>> college, my professor in formal logic reviewed my materials separately
>> because I invented an alternate logic code to allow me to use my
>> Braille Note to complete assignments. The same professor made himself
>> available during office hours (or otherwise) if I had questions, and
>> the school provided me a reader for in-class lectures so I could
>> access the content of the blackboard, which was full of long lines of
>> logical syntax at the end of the session.
>> •	Nuanced adaptations: Restructuring the format or assignments must
>> still instruct you on the skills for you to progress to the next level
>> but should not present obstacles because the exercises or drills are
>> premised on having sight. Having sight is fundamentally immaterial to
>> conducting legal research or producing quality written work product.
>> The course must be appropriately adapted for you to learn what you
>> need to know non-visually so you can advance in the spring.
>> •	Absent the above ideas, the school is wasting your time. You are
>> paying decent money to be there. The school cannot fail to provide
>> reasonable accommodations in the course delivery and evaluation and
>> then fail you for poor performance. Unfortunately, you have to make
>> sure that the circumstances in the prior sentence do not come to pass.
>> You should insist that the current course adaptations are inadequate
>> for your basic goals and that they need to be further refined.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Nikki
>>
>>
>> On 10/21/23, Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> To answer everyone’s questions:
>>>
>>> 1. I have gone to the disability office, and outside of providing me the
>>> alternate format assignments, they have been little help.
>>>
>>> 2. I’ve considered dropping the class, but the entire research and
>>> writing
>>> department is structured like this! Ugh!
>>>
>>> 3. I am using word doc formats of the assignments, but i’m still somehow
>>> expected to complete the regular assignment as a team, which ends up
>>> causing
>>> my team extra work. I’ve asked to work alone, and do the alternate
>>> assignments, but my professor won’t allow that.
>>>
>>> 5. Asking for the help of the research reps at my school is a great idea,
>>> thanks!!!
>>>
>>> Paige
>>>
>>>> On Oct 21, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Paige:
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to text or call to discuss. Happy to troubleshoot. I know
>>>> there can be any number   of variables.
>>>>
>>>> Sanho
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/21/23, Christine Busanelli via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I had something similar, happened to me during my 1L year, where we
>>>>> were
>>>>> forced to do an online timed quiz, which was difficult for me to see
>>>>> due
>>>>> to
>>>>> my vision disability. I ended up, dropping the class and taking it
>>>>> again
>>>>> with a different professor who didn’t have such expectations. I did go
>>>>> to
>>>>> the disability services office at my school and let them know of the
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> If you haven’t done that already, speak with the disability
>>>>> accommodations
>>>>> department, I recommend that.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:49 PM Paige via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams -
>>>>>> usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or
>>>>>> crossword.
>>>>>> I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> group work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an
>>>>>> alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the
>>>>>> citation,
>>>>>> only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the
>>>>>> class
>>>>>> has been no better…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over
>>>>>> time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my
>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have
>>>>>> part
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>> of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks everyone!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paige
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> He/Him
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paigecmiller6%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie A. Orozco
> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>


From maurakutnyak at gmail.com  Sun Oct 22 14:00:00 2023
From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:00:00 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <CADv2uYnJCn4jkrAduKvhH-LHKfEAhYW9Y1GRDogYn0G3Y7Lz4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADv2uYnJCn4jkrAduKvhH-LHKfEAhYW9Y1GRDogYn0G3Y7Lz4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4289CF30-E3E5-4238-A36E-E39BE0E98845@gmail.com>

Hi Paige,

What a bounty of awesome advice you have here! I hesitate to try and add to everyone’s helpful insights. But I will echo Sanho’s offer to listen, and be available to talk. Please reach out by text or call. My phone number is: 716-563-9882.

I vividly  remember the frustration and pain of the year long slog through  legal research and writing. Your message prompted one particular memory. Second semester, I reached out to my professor, feeling overwhelmed by the drafting process for  a motion for summary judgment. He responded with three words. “Just keep swimming. “ 

On the one hand, that was perfect advice. My ability to make it through law school had as much to do with intellectual ability, as tenacity. Simply not giving up is very important. On the other hand, I wanted to poke him in the eye for such a flippant response. Coincidentally, a day or two after his message landed, my husband put finding Nemo on for our, then two-year-old. I came out and snuggled up on the couch with the little guy and at  some point one of the fish was chanting, just keep swimming! That felt like an affirmation to hang in there.

Please reach out whenever you need to. We are all here for you! 



Warmly,

Maura Kutnyak
716-563-9882

> On Oct 21, 2023, at 10:45 PM, Nikki Singh via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Julie's response reminds me to add that you should become good friends
> with your law school's library staff. They can scan printed materials
> for you. Mine did, which was helpful at the start of the semester when
> I was waiting for the disability office to complete scanning all my
> course textbooks. More relevantly, they should be able to direct you
> to your school's Westlaw and Lexis reps. The reps' job is to get you
> introduced and reasonably comfortable with using these two mainstream
> services to conduct basic research into case law, statutes,
> regulations, and law review articles. You will invariably expand
> beyond that over time. For now, you can request that you work with a
> rep one-on-one till you are confident to start using Westlaw/Lexis on
> your own. From there, you can delve into more advanced research
> techniques, either on your own or with another one-on-one session with
> a rep.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Nikki
> 
> 
>> On 10/21/23, Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi Paige,
>> 
>> OMg wow, legal rhetoric is hard enough. I'm going to add what has
>> already been advised here, but I agree with all of it.
>> 
>> As an accommodation, you should get extra time on assignments. Every
>> professor should know this, and when they set up quizzes online, they
>> must either change the time constraints for everyone or find a way to
>> offer you a separate option. I had this happen to me as a 1L, and it
>> only happened once. After I suffered through the first timed quiz and
>> then complained to the disability services office, the professor
>> changed his quizzes so that no one would be timed.
>> 
>> As for the group assignments, you should be given accessible versions
>> of everything the group is looking at. It sounds like the nature of
>> some of the work is visual though. Getting an accessible crossword
>> won't help if your classmates can just visually glance at it and get
>> some of the answers before you're done reading. I would ask for all
>> such materials in advance so that you can look over them before you
>> meet with your group. That way you have a similar advantage to their
>> quickly-skimming eyeballs.
>> 
>> In my experience, I got very little useful feedback in legal rhetoric.
>> Most of it was too vague to be useful or provided me with very little
>> understanding of how to improve. I agree about getting a reader to
>> help you look over your work. This will be especially helpful for
>> finding weird formatting errors and looking over Bluebook citations.
>> For your writing, I would ask your classmates if they are getting any
>> useful feedback. Odds are strong that they are not and that you are
>> all in the same sinking boat. But the Bluebooking should be a little
>> clearer because that's a concrete skill that can easily be measured.
>> You should be able to see what you've done right and wrong on Bluebook
>> assignments, and if you're not getting that feedback, then you should
>> figure out how the rest of the class is getting it and find an
>> accommodation for getting the same information.
>> 
>> As for research, I ended up contacting someone in my law school's
>> library. She understood how screen readers worked, and she was great
>> at looking at Lexis and Westlaw with me. The problem with learning
>> research as a 1L is that they use videos to teach it, which are not at
>> all useful to us, even with descriptions. I found that for me, the
>> only thing that worked was repeatedly using those web platforms.
>> 
>> Feel free to reach out to me off list if you wish. I'm currently a 3L,
>> and I struggled hard in legal rhetoric. So sadly, I know how it is to
>> struggle in that class.
>> 
>> Julie
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/21/23, Nandini Singh via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Based on your description, your legal writing and research courses
>>> appear to be one of the more peculiar ways to impart those skills.
>>> Legal drafting by crossword puzzle does not reflect actual practice,
>>> and it presents unnecessary challenges to blind folks. You must insist
>>> on the following high level points that you should supplement in light
>>> of your specific situation:
>>> 
>>> •    Linear structure/format to the exercises: Unless you can receive
>>> Excel spreadsheets that are at least minimally formatted and/or tagged
>>> to facilitate accessibility with JAWS, you should not be using
>>> crosswords or puzzles but instead responding to a prompt, working
>>> through a mock law suit, or workshopping actual work product. This is
>>> how I have always taken legal writing and research classes and
>>> seminars.
>>> •    Timely and meaningful feedback: You need to understand in sufficient
>>> detail where you are making mistakes in formatting, style, diction, or
>>> bluebooking, or else you will not improve. A TA or reader (to be paid
>>> for by the school) should work with you to convey feedback if the
>>> crossword-quiz cannot otherwise be presented in a more conventional,
>>> linear format, e.g., locate the issue in the following citation.
>>> •    Adaptations are extra work but nevertheless important: Sometimes the
>>> instructor or TA will have to grade two sets of assignments: yors and
>>> the rest of the class. Good instructors can and will do this because
>>> they recognize that you have to learn differently, e.g., during
>>> college, my professor in formal logic reviewed my materials separately
>>> because I invented an alternate logic code to allow me to use my
>>> Braille Note to complete assignments. The same professor made himself
>>> available during office hours (or otherwise) if I had questions, and
>>> the school provided me a reader for in-class lectures so I could
>>> access the content of the blackboard, which was full of long lines of
>>> logical syntax at the end of the session.
>>> •    Nuanced adaptations: Restructuring the format or assignments must
>>> still instruct you on the skills for you to progress to the next level
>>> but should not present obstacles because the exercises or drills are
>>> premised on having sight. Having sight is fundamentally immaterial to
>>> conducting legal research or producing quality written work product.
>>> The course must be appropriately adapted for you to learn what you
>>> need to know non-visually so you can advance in the spring.
>>> •    Absent the above ideas, the school is wasting your time. You are
>>> paying decent money to be there. The school cannot fail to provide
>>> reasonable accommodations in the course delivery and evaluation and
>>> then fail you for poor performance. Unfortunately, you have to make
>>> sure that the circumstances in the prior sentence do not come to pass.
>>> You should insist that the current course adaptations are inadequate
>>> for your basic goals and that they need to be further refined.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nikki
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/21/23, Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> To answer everyone’s questions:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. I have gone to the disability office, and outside of providing me the
>>>> alternate format assignments, they have been little help.
>>>> 
>>>> 2. I’ve considered dropping the class, but the entire research and
>>>> writing
>>>> department is structured like this! Ugh!
>>>> 
>>>> 3. I am using word doc formats of the assignments, but i’m still somehow
>>>> expected to complete the regular assignment as a team, which ends up
>>>> causing
>>>> my team extra work. I’ve asked to work alone, and do the alternate
>>>> assignments, but my professor won’t allow that.
>>>> 
>>>> 5. Asking for the help of the research reps at my school is a great idea,
>>>> thanks!!!
>>>> 
>>>> Paige
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 21, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paige:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Feel free to text or call to discuss. Happy to troubleshoot. I know
>>>>> there can be any number   of variables.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sanho
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 10/21/23, Christine Busanelli via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I had something similar, happened to me during my 1L year, where we
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> forced to do an online timed quiz, which was difficult for me to see
>>>>>> due
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> my vision disability. I ended up, dropping the class and taking it
>>>>>> again
>>>>>> with a different professor who didn’t have such expectations. I did go
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the disability services office at my school and let them know of the
>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>> If you haven’t done that already, speak with the disability
>>>>>> accommodations
>>>>>> department, I recommend that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:49 PM Paige via BlindLaw
>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams -
>>>>>>> usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or
>>>>>>> crossword.
>>>>>>> I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> group work.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an
>>>>>>> alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the
>>>>>>> citation,
>>>>>>> only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the
>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>> has been no better…
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over
>>>>>>> time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my
>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have
>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>> of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks everyone!!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Paige
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> He/Him
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paigecmiller6%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Julie A. Orozco
>> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
>> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com


From laurenbishop96 at icloud.com  Sun Oct 22 14:51:58 2023
From: laurenbishop96 at icloud.com (Lauren Bishop)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:51:58 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] research and writing
In-Reply-To: <4289CF30-E3E5-4238-A36E-E39BE0E98845@gmail.com>
References: <4289CF30-E3E5-4238-A36E-E39BE0E98845@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A63BDD65-AD51-4B69-8590-E300460627A7@icloud.com>

Hi Page, 
I would ask to sit down with your professor or a librarian to get tips on using Westlaw and Lexus. Both are very accessible, and they are not necessarily going to know the screen reader aspects of using Westlaw and Lexus, but they can give you great tips to get started on conducting research. You, as a blind person aren’t going to do research any differently than a  sighted person would. 
I’m not sure if you professors use a LWD or blue book, but if you can use a blue book, they have an online subscription. It is great because it automatically bookmarks all the different citations that you use as you use them. Also, you can look at the citation examples, and Use jaws key plus F to know what types of font they are using.   What’s difficult about citations is remembering all the different fonts that you have to use and what’s included in the citations. Other than that, they are pretty accessible because there’s no indenting or other formatting requirements.  
With respect to the crossword puzzle stuff, maybe go to the academic dean because even with the alternate assignments, you are not getting an equal learning experience. You could also talk with your peer about these assignments. You are probably not the only one that can’t complete these assignments. Maybe collective advocacy with the dean will lead to some positive change.   
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2023, at 10:01 AM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paige,
> 
> What a bounty of awesome advice you have here! I hesitate to try and add to everyone’s helpful insights. But I will echo Sanho’s offer to listen, and be available to talk. Please reach out by text or call. My phone number is: 716-563-9882.
> 
> I vividly  remember the frustration and pain of the year long slog through  legal research and writing. Your message prompted one particular memory. Second semester, I reached out to my professor, feeling overwhelmed by the drafting process for  a motion for summary judgment. He responded with three words. “Just keep swimming. “
> 
> On the one hand, that was perfect advice. My ability to make it through law school had as much to do with intellectual ability, as tenacity. Simply not giving up is very important. On the other hand, I wanted to poke him in the eye for such a flippant response. Coincidentally, a day or two after his message landed, my husband put finding Nemo on for our, then two-year-old. I came out and snuggled up on the couch with the little guy and at  some point one of the fish was chanting, just keep swimming! That felt like an affirmation to hang in there.
> 
> Please reach out whenever you need to. We are all here for you!
> 
> 
> 
> Warmly,
> 
> Maura Kutnyak
> 716-563-9882
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2023, at 10:45 PM, Nikki Singh via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Julie's response reminds me to add that you should become good friends
>> with your law school's library staff. They can scan printed materials
>> for you. Mine did, which was helpful at the start of the semester when
>> I was waiting for the disability office to complete scanning all my
>> course textbooks. More relevantly, they should be able to direct you
>> to your school's Westlaw and Lexis reps. The reps' job is to get you
>> introduced and reasonably comfortable with using these two mainstream
>> services to conduct basic research into case law, statutes,
>> regulations, and law review articles. You will invariably expand
>> beyond that over time. For now, you can request that you work with a
>> rep one-on-one till you are confident to start using Westlaw/Lexis on
>> your own. From there, you can delve into more advanced research
>> techniques, either on your own or with another one-on-one session with
>> a rep.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Nikki
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 10/21/23, Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hi Paige,
>>> 
>>> OMg wow, legal rhetoric is hard enough. I'm going to add what has
>>> already been advised here, but I agree with all of it.
>>> 
>>> As an accommodation, you should get extra time on assignments. Every
>>> professor should know this, and when they set up quizzes online, they
>>> must either change the time constraints for everyone or find a way to
>>> offer you a separate option. I had this happen to me as a 1L, and it
>>> only happened once. After I suffered through the first timed quiz and
>>> then complained to the disability services office, the professor
>>> changed his quizzes so that no one would be timed.
>>> 
>>> As for the group assignments, you should be given accessible versions
>>> of everything the group is looking at. It sounds like the nature of
>>> some of the work is visual though. Getting an accessible crossword
>>> won't help if your classmates can just visually glance at it and get
>>> some of the answers before you're done reading. I would ask for all
>>> such materials in advance so that you can look over them before you
>>> meet with your group. That way you have a similar advantage to their
>>> quickly-skimming eyeballs.
>>> 
>>> In my experience, I got very little useful feedback in legal rhetoric.
>>> Most of it was too vague to be useful or provided me with very little
>>> understanding of how to improve. I agree about getting a reader to
>>> help you look over your work. This will be especially helpful for
>>> finding weird formatting errors and looking over Bluebook citations.
>>> For your writing, I would ask your classmates if they are getting any
>>> useful feedback. Odds are strong that they are not and that you are
>>> all in the same sinking boat. But the Bluebooking should be a little
>>> clearer because that's a concrete skill that can easily be measured.
>>> You should be able to see what you've done right and wrong on Bluebook
>>> assignments, and if you're not getting that feedback, then you should
>>> figure out how the rest of the class is getting it and find an
>>> accommodation for getting the same information.
>>> 
>>> As for research, I ended up contacting someone in my law school's
>>> library. She understood how screen readers worked, and she was great
>>> at looking at Lexis and Westlaw with me. The problem with learning
>>> research as a 1L is that they use videos to teach it, which are not at
>>> all useful to us, even with descriptions. I found that for me, the
>>> only thing that worked was repeatedly using those web platforms.
>>> 
>>> Feel free to reach out to me off list if you wish. I'm currently a 3L,
>>> and I struggled hard in legal rhetoric. So sadly, I know how it is to
>>> struggle in that class.
>>> 
>>> Julie
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 10/21/23, Nandini Singh via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Based on your description, your legal writing and research courses
>>>> appear to be one of the more peculiar ways to impart those skills.
>>>> Legal drafting by crossword puzzle does not reflect actual practice,
>>>> and it presents unnecessary challenges to blind folks. You must insist
>>>> on the following high level points that you should supplement in light
>>>> of your specific situation:
>>>> 
>>>> •    Linear structure/format to the exercises: Unless you can receive
>>>> Excel spreadsheets that are at least minimally formatted and/or tagged
>>>> to facilitate accessibility with JAWS, you should not be using
>>>> crosswords or puzzles but instead responding to a prompt, working
>>>> through a mock law suit, or workshopping actual work product. This is
>>>> how I have always taken legal writing and research classes and
>>>> seminars.
>>>> •    Timely and meaningful feedback: You need to understand in sufficient
>>>> detail where you are making mistakes in formatting, style, diction, or
>>>> bluebooking, or else you will not improve. A TA or reader (to be paid
>>>> for by the school) should work with you to convey feedback if the
>>>> crossword-quiz cannot otherwise be presented in a more conventional,
>>>> linear format, e.g., locate the issue in the following citation.
>>>> •    Adaptations are extra work but nevertheless important: Sometimes the
>>>> instructor or TA will have to grade two sets of assignments: yors and
>>>> the rest of the class. Good instructors can and will do this because
>>>> they recognize that you have to learn differently, e.g., during
>>>> college, my professor in formal logic reviewed my materials separately
>>>> because I invented an alternate logic code to allow me to use my
>>>> Braille Note to complete assignments. The same professor made himself
>>>> available during office hours (or otherwise) if I had questions, and
>>>> the school provided me a reader for in-class lectures so I could
>>>> access the content of the blackboard, which was full of long lines of
>>>> logical syntax at the end of the session.
>>>> •    Nuanced adaptations: Restructuring the format or assignments must
>>>> still instruct you on the skills for you to progress to the next level
>>>> but should not present obstacles because the exercises or drills are
>>>> premised on having sight. Having sight is fundamentally immaterial to
>>>> conducting legal research or producing quality written work product.
>>>> The course must be appropriately adapted for you to learn what you
>>>> need to know non-visually so you can advance in the spring.
>>>> •    Absent the above ideas, the school is wasting your time. You are
>>>> paying decent money to be there. The school cannot fail to provide
>>>> reasonable accommodations in the course delivery and evaluation and
>>>> then fail you for poor performance. Unfortunately, you have to make
>>>> sure that the circumstances in the prior sentence do not come to pass.
>>>> You should insist that the current course adaptations are inadequate
>>>> for your basic goals and that they need to be further refined.
>>>> 
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Nikki
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 10/21/23, Paige via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> To answer everyone’s questions:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. I have gone to the disability office, and outside of providing me the
>>>>> alternate format assignments, they have been little help.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2. I’ve considered dropping the class, but the entire research and
>>>>> writing
>>>>> department is structured like this! Ugh!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 3. I am using word doc formats of the assignments, but i’m still somehow
>>>>> expected to complete the regular assignment as a team, which ends up
>>>>> causing
>>>>> my team extra work. I’ve asked to work alone, and do the alternate
>>>>> assignments, but my professor won’t allow that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 5. Asking for the help of the research reps at my school is a great idea,
>>>>> thanks!!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paige
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 21, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Paige:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Feel free to text or call to discuss. Happy to troubleshoot. I know
>>>>>> there can be any number   of variables.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sanho
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 10/21/23, Christine Busanelli via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I had something similar, happened to me during my 1L year, where we
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> forced to do an online timed quiz, which was difficult for me to see
>>>>>>> due
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> my vision disability. I ended up, dropping the class and taking it
>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>> with a different professor who didn’t have such expectations. I did go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the disability services office at my school and let them know of the
>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>> If you haven’t done that already, speak with the disability
>>>>>>> accommodations
>>>>>>> department, I recommend that.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:49 PM Paige via BlindLaw
>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I’m a 1L who needs tips in research and writing! I also use JAWS.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My class is structured that we do a writing exercise in small teams -
>>>>>>>> usually in the form of a timed exercise or game like a puzzle or
>>>>>>>> crossword.
>>>>>>>> I have been given alternate assignments, but it doesn’t translate well
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> group work.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> For citations, we do another crossword to unlock a quiz. (I do an
>>>>>>>> alternate assignment), and take a quiz in D2L. We have three tries,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> quiz does not tell you what you specifically did wrong in the
>>>>>>>> citation,
>>>>>>>> only that the entire question is wrong. The research portion of the
>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>> has been no better…
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I feel like I’m not being given enough feedback in class to learn over
>>>>>>>> time, and the group work has only added stress. I’ve voiced my
>>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> my school multiple times to no avail, and I’m nervous, since I have
>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> of the class in the spring - if I pass part 1!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone!!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Paige
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> He/Him
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paigecmiller6%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Julie A. Orozco
>>> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
>>> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laurenbishop96%40icloud.com


From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 23 06:25:02 2023
From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 06:25:02 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] An empowering encounter
Message-ID: <KL1PR0601MB5726F7C662FADB5E9EAA004AFDD8A@KL1PR0601MB5726.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>

 an empowering encounter

Last Wednesday, I had the honour of being invited for an event organised in honour of Justice Ravindra Bhat, judge, Supreme Court of India, to celebrate his judicial career. At the event, I ran into former Chief Justice of India UU Lalit, for whom I had interned in January 2017. On seeing me, he recalled how he had first gotten introduced to me when I had asked an incisive question in a lecture he had come to deliver in my college, how I had then gone to  intern for him. Until that time, the Supreme Court had not had a blind intern and all files were only available in hard copy form, as a general rule. Justice Lalit recounted how he had then spoken with then Chief Justice of India JS Khehar about my situation and the format I needed to access files in. Justice Khehar had stated that, while it won’t be possible to make all files accessible at that time, the court registry could be directed to make five new files available in accessible formats each day which the court registry had then done.

I took away three things from this chance encounter with Chief Justice Lalit. First, the importance of grabbing every opportunity that comes your way, howsoever small. Second, how one needs to negotiate access arrangements that help you get the job done without imposing an undue burden on the system. While, of course, trying to gradually change the system itself, so such needs can be normalized. And, third, the importance of having leaders who understand the importance of going the extra mile to provide additional support to those who need it.

Rahul


Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From maurakutnyak at gmail.com  Mon Oct 23 10:02:22 2023
From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 06:02:22 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] An empowering encounter
In-Reply-To: <KL1PR0601MB5726F7C662FADB5E9EAA004AFDD8A@KL1PR0601MB5726.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <KL1PR0601MB5726F7C662FADB5E9EAA004AFDD8A@KL1PR0601MB5726.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <065098FE-9F13-4415-B2B4-E48F572D8A8D@gmail.com>

Hi Rahul:

Thank you for sharing your empowering encounter. One of my few regrets from law school was not having seized every opportunity to connect with attorney-mentors, and shying away from mainstreem legal work. These aversions likely were a product of internalized low expectations, and fear. Thus, it is always a pleasure to hear about your highflying legal experiences.

Now, I do feel the need to push back a bit against one idea you shared. You referenced the need to personally modulate fighting for access, and the need to not place and “undue burden” on the system. I should be directly quoting, but typing on my phone, before prepping my kids for school, has me choosing haste. In my very green position as a public defender, there are bountiful opportunities to pause, and worry whether I am a resource to the agency, or whether I am a “burden”, . There is little external feedback to prompt my concern. The many managers through whom accommodations are vetted, are all open to creative solutions, and quite affirmative about their perception of my worth. Still, that internal admonition to, “ not ask for too much”, reverberates. But to myself, and to all of us I say, we must expect, and we are entitled to, FULL ACCESS! 

The long and short is, I want to think less about avoiding, placing an undue burden on the system. Because, I know that we are all resources, and our clients will benefit from our advocacy. I think it is dangerous to the blind lawyer’s drive and purpose to affirm those internal admonitions. 

Thanks for inspiring me to wax theoretical.  Have a great week.  

Warmly,

Maura Kutnyak
716-563-9882

> On Oct 23, 2023, at 2:26 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
>  an empowering encounter
> 
> Last Wednesday, I had the honour of being invited for an event organised in honour of Justice Ravindra Bhat, judge, Supreme Court of India, to celebrate his judicial career. At the event, I ran into former Chief Justice of India UU Lalit, for whom I had interned in January 2017. On seeing me, he recalled how he had first gotten introduced to me when I had asked an incisive question in a lecture he had come to deliver in my college, how I had then gone to  intern for him. Until that time, the Supreme Court had not had a blind intern and all files were only available in hard copy form, as a general rule. Justice Lalit recounted how he had then spoken with then Chief Justice of India JS Khehar about my situation and the format I needed to access files in. Justice Khehar had stated that, while it won’t be possible to make all files accessible at that time, the court registry could be directed to make five new files available in accessible formats each day which the court registry had then done.
> 
> I took away three things from this chance encounter with Chief Justice Lalit. First, the importance of grabbing every opportunity that comes your way, howsoever small. Second, how one needs to negotiate access arrangements that help you get the job done without imposing an undue burden on the system. While, of course, trying to gradually change the system itself, so such needs can be normalized. And, third, the importance of having leaders who understand the importance of going the extra mile to provide additional support to those who need it.
> 
> Rahul
> 
> 
> Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com


From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 23 11:03:06 2023
From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 16:33:06 +0530
Subject: [blindLaw] An empowering encounter
In-Reply-To: <065098FE-9F13-4415-B2B4-E48F572D8A8D@gmail.com>
References: <KL1PR0601MB5726F7C662FADB5E9EAA004AFDD8A@KL1PR0601MB5726.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <065098FE-9F13-4415-B2B4-E48F572D8A8D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADFycPb7x5C2ewAAVLMCourXe16U8APPbagZi1ctj-2v+fywPQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Maura. Point well taken. I agree with you. In fact, when I had
clerked for a different judge in 2020, who is now the Chief Justice of
India, one of the first things he had said to me is that you should have
the same option to choose the files that you want to work on as your
able-bodied counterparts. Practically, however, that proved quite difficult.

This encounter particularly was meaningful for me as I have increasingly
begun thinking as to how far I will be able to go in my legal career,
beyond just disability rights work. That work gives me a lot of meaning and
satisfaction and is something that I will carry on for the rest of my life.
but I do want to contribte to, and be known in, other areas of the law
also. And it is quite difficult.

Rahul

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 15:34, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi Rahul:
>
> Thank you for sharing your empowering encounter. One of my few regrets
> from law school was not having seized every opportunity to connect with
> attorney-mentors, and shying away from mainstreem legal work. These
> aversions likely were a product of internalized low expectations, and fear.
> Thus, it is always a pleasure to hear about your highflying legal
> experiences.
>
> Now, I do feel the need to push back a bit against one idea you shared.
> You referenced the need to personally modulate fighting for access, and the
> need to not place and “undue burden” on the system. I should be directly
> quoting, but typing on my phone, before prepping my kids for school, has me
> choosing haste. In my very green position as a public defender, there are
> bountiful opportunities to pause, and worry whether I am a resource to the
> agency, or whether I am a “burden”, . There is little external feedback to
> prompt my concern. The many managers through whom accommodations are
> vetted, are all open to creative solutions, and quite affirmative about
> their perception of my worth. Still, that internal admonition to, “ not ask
> for too much”, reverberates. But to myself, and to all of us I say, we must
> expect, and we are entitled to, FULL ACCESS!
>
> The long and short is, I want to think less about avoiding, placing an
> undue burden on the system. Because, I know that we are all resources, and
> our clients will benefit from our advocacy. I think it is dangerous to the
> blind lawyer’s drive and purpose to affirm those internal admonitions.
>
> Thanks for inspiring me to wax theoretical.  Have a great week.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Maura Kutnyak
> 716-563-9882
>
> > On Oct 23, 2023, at 2:26 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> >  an empowering encounter
> >
> > Last Wednesday, I had the honour of being invited for an event organised
> in honour of Justice Ravindra Bhat, judge, Supreme Court of India, to
> celebrate his judicial career. At the event, I ran into former Chief
> Justice of India UU Lalit, for whom I had interned in January 2017. On
> seeing me, he recalled how he had first gotten introduced to me when I had
> asked an incisive question in a lecture he had come to deliver in my
> college, how I had then gone to  intern for him. Until that time, the
> Supreme Court had not had a blind intern and all files were only available
> in hard copy form, as a general rule. Justice Lalit recounted how he had
> then spoken with then Chief Justice of India JS Khehar about my situation
> and the format I needed to access files in. Justice Khehar had stated that,
> while it won’t be possible to make all files accessible at that time, the
> court registry could be directed to make five new files available in
> accessible formats each day which the court registry had then done.
> >
> > I took away three things from this chance encounter with Chief Justice
> Lalit. First, the importance of grabbing every opportunity that comes your
> way, howsoever small. Second, how one needs to negotiate access
> arrangements that help you get the job done without imposing an undue
> burden on the system. While, of course, trying to gradually change the
> system itself, so such needs can be normalized. And, third, the importance
> of having leaders who understand the importance of going the extra mile to
> provide additional support to those who need it.
> >
> > Rahul
> >
> >
> > Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com
>


-- 
--
Rahul Bajaj
Attorney, Ira Law
Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
Human Rights Hub
Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
Court of India

From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Mon Oct 23 18:08:11 2023
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 18:08:11 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Karla Gilbride Sworn In as EEOC General Counsel
In-Reply-To: <16835804.106853@updates.eeoc.gov>
References: <16835804.106853@updates.eeoc.gov>
Message-ID: <SA9PR09MB545474256D7451CC18902BC0F9D8A@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>



From: U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission <eeoc at updates.eeoc.gov>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 10:56 AM
Subject: Karla Gilbride Sworn In as EEOC General Counsel




View as a webpage  /  Share<https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDAsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vY29udGVudC5nb3ZkZWxpdmVyeS5jb20vYWNjb3VudHMvVVNFRU9DL2J1bGxldGlucy8zNzczN2YwIiwiYnVsbGV0aW5faWQiOiIyMDIzMTAyMy44NDQ4MjQ5MSJ9.NjeBidyz_iplUqtG3ZU7WarwVAaU1WH-0OPt06gi9o8/s/811874815/br/228774908401-l>

[EEOC News]


U.S. EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Oct. 23, 2023
[General Counsel Karla Gilbride Takes Oath of Office Oct. 23, 2023. (EEOC photo/Christopher Butler)]

EEOC Chair Charlotte A. Burrows administers the oath of office to the agency’s new General Counsel Karla Gilbride Oct. 23, with Gwendolyn Young Reams attending. (EEOC photo/Christopher Butler)



________________________________
Karla Gilbride Sworn In as EEOC General Counsel

WASHINGTON – Karla Gilbride was sworn in today as General Counsel of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). Gilbride was nominated by President Biden on Jan. 3, 2023, and was confirmed by the Senate on Oct. 17, for a four-year term.

Gilbride joins the EEOC with over 15 years of experience litigating cases on behalf of workers and consumers. Previously, she worked at the non-profit organization Public Justice, where she served as co-director of the Access to Justice Project. In this role, she focused on dismantling structural barriers that make it more difficult for people to access justice through the civil courts.

“We are delighted to welcome Karla Gilbride to the EEOC as our new general counsel,” said EEOC Chair Charlotte A. Burrows. “She has extensive experience in employment discrimination law, and her dedication to EEOC’s mission will be an excellent asset to the agency.”

“I am thrilled to join the EEOC, whose mission resonates deeply with my belief in removing barriers and opening up pathways to opportunity,” said Gilbride. “I look forward to learning more about the important work the Commission is already doing and how I can best contribute my skills and experience to advancing that mission.”

Before joining Public Justice, Gilbride worked as an associate at Mehri & Skalet PLLC, on wage, hour, and employment discrimination cases, as well as consumer class actions and cases brought under the Fair Housing Act. In addition, she spent three years at Disability Rights Advocates in Berkeley, California, bringing disability discrimination class actions and representing disabled consumers before the California Public Utilities Commission.

In May 2022, Gilbride won a significant victory in the fight against forced arbitration arguing before the U.S. Supreme Court in Morgan v. Sundance. Ultimately, the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 in her client’s favor.

Gilbride is a member of the bar in New York, California, and the District of Columbia, as well as several federal district courts, the U.S. Supreme Court and the Courts of Appeals for the First, Second, Third, Fourth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth, Eleventh and D.C. Circuits.

After graduating with honors from Georgetown Law in 2007, Gilbride clerked for Judge Ronald Gould on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. She received her undergraduate degree from Swarthmore College with highest honors in 2002 with a major in linguistics and minor in psychology.

Gilbride, who is blind, is the first person with a known disability to be appointed to the role of general counsel at the EEOC.

The EEOC’s general counsel is appointed by the President to support the commission and provide direction, coordination, and supervision to the EEOC's litigation program.

The EEOC advances opportunity in the workplace by enforcing federal laws prohibiting employment discrimination. More information is available at https://www.eeoc.gov/<https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDEsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmVlb2MuZ292Lz91dG1fY29udGVudD0mdXRtX21lZGl1bT1lbWFpbCZ1dG1fbmFtZT0mdXRtX3NvdXJjZT1nb3ZkZWxpdmVyeSZ1dG1fdGVybT0iLCJidWxsZXRpbl9pZCI6IjIwMjMxMDIzLjg0NDgyNDkxIn0.e1V_8o0CYJvvyjL2oG7om8Ykg7crIFYCmcuFCDe1j6A/s/811874815/br/228774908401-l>. Stay connected with the latest EEOC news by subscribing to our email updates<https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDIsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vcHVibGljLmdvdmRlbGl2ZXJ5LmNvbS9hY2NvdW50cy9VU0VFT0Mvc3Vic2NyaWJlci9uZXciLCJidWxsZXRpbl9pZCI6IjIwMjMxMDIzLjg0NDgyNDkxIn0.ZjdJ_vhXdTNHDcMGJ2VdS5TbGAcjix0HtugiXIw1KrY/s/811874815/br/228774908401-l>.

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From greciar57 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 25 15:03:22 2023
From: greciar57 at gmail.com (Grecia Ramirez)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 11:03:22 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Marking Exhibits
Message-ID: <6ca47ed2-6a6b-4011-a5bf-0f38c1629865@gmail.com>

Good Morning, All,


Forgive me if this is a redundant post. I am a totally blind 
stenographer mostly doing depositions through a court reporting firm. 
What are solutions you guys have adapted when it comes to marking 
exhibits? Mostly for in-person proceedings, but remote as well.

I've been given to understand there's some kind of stamp you can put on 
digital exhibits for remote proceedings, but have no experience with 
those myself.

Are you guys just putting little Braille markers on when you do 
in-person? I need for both my firm and myself to be able to identify 
them at a later date, if need be.

Definitely interested in your ideas. The only other blind stenographer I 
know is in court, so the clerk handles all of that for her. If you guys 
know of any other blind stenographer doing depositions, am also really 
interested in their experiences and solutions.


Thank you all,


-- 

Thank you,
Grecia Ramirez, RPR, CCR
(470) 774-7967