From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 03:03:56 2023
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie A. Orozco)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 23:03:56 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Fwd: Super Accessible Rules of Evidence
In-Reply-To: <6D5058A8-F598-4BE1-A8D9-0D42377C195A@gmail.com>
References: <CAL6jpezb0PxD3Bt8oWwzdjiWahwPtEh2R3UajR8ZE+rYNDvMUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <6D5058A8-F598-4BE1-A8D9-0D42377C195A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DLfEoCZMyw7b+O2UECXLH9B4Q48MR3-R9sYTyhGBMotiA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Sanho. I remembered the chart but couldn't find it anywhere
on my hard drive.

I wonder if it would be helpful to collect documents like this to help
future law students. I would have cried over easy-to-read rules in
civil procedure class when I not only didn't understand what I was
reading but could hardly make sense of how to read it.

Thanks again,

Julie

On 8/31/23, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
>> Date: August 30, 2023 at 4:25:34 PM EDT
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Maura Kutnyak <maurakutnyak at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Super Accessible Rules of Evidence
>>
>> All,
>>
>> My accessible and searchable rules of evidence are attached in Word
>> and Excel. I'll send similar versions of the FRCP next week.
>>
>> Warmth,
>> Sanho
>>
>> Warmth,
>> Sanho
>>
>>> On 8/30/23, Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If Maura, Julie, or any of the other recent law grads I've sent the FRE
>>> and
>>> FRCP to would like to share them with the list, please do. I'll send mine
>>> ASAP. My laptop's having trouble with the internet at the moment.
>>>
>>> Sanho
>>>
>>>> On Aug 30, 2023, at 3:57 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> I will attach my copy of the federal rules in word to a separate
>>>> message.
>>>> Expect it later tonight. It’s on a hard drive and I am elbow deep in
>>>> cooking dinner at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone would like me to share some of the other evidence materials
>>>> that
>>>> I’ve collected just email me at:Maurakut at buffalo.edu
>>>>
>>>> Warmly,
>>>>
>>>> Maura Kutnyak
>>>> 716-563-9882
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 30, 2023, at 3:38 PM, A. Rashid Deme via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Good afternoon,
>>>>> I wold like a copy as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>
>>>>> A Rashid Dème
>>>>>
>>>>> He/his
>>>>> J.D Candidate
>>>>> 248-508-9146
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Seif-Eldeen
>>>>> Saqallah via BlindLaw
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2023 1:24 PM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah <seifs at umich.edu>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Super Accessible Rules of Evidence
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too, please (seifs at umich.edu); or it might be better to email the
>>>>> listserve with an attachment?
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rashiddeme%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> He/Him
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie A. Orozco
MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
Law, JD Candidate 2023


From dandrews920 at comcast.net  Fri Sep  1 06:37:49 2023
From: dandrews920 at comcast.net (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 01:37:49 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Fwd: Save the Date and Call for Presenters: National
 Federation of the Blind 2024 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium
Message-ID: <bxmwqsGEuBLz2bxmxqKxLc.1693550272.16f0a38a13334f452c28da84d85de216.MISSINGID@comcast.net>


>
><https://u32452178.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=mTCu8dGvOkl-2BXqaCK8sZ2XZsIV-2FIHwCJ1wu82RzQMT8t64jmb9bmcUogA-2Bzxye9vdPQAmEemu3d-2B4b3ARTtnhSs2B6WD6XCiGmqdCkI3Dqo-3DWvbz_JDnq4OQIisTnRRrmTP5a-2BIuhR7pDh5PUkvCTSv4DnmNh2HfYUV-2FXdji4aOZ-2B33QxlAzSxqhGh6KX5b-2FqiemPaXGmgBHfZq91c-2BNsOrkX0tLU42Wcy-2B3s-2F6ZCd2YcaiBXmaX-2Bdt4xUNjI7BGCZfgbZzH3HxkVpJS9l2jxZmlo-2FYe96FY-2BZhePKNAqCiyiq6y9ghnDlUyIIpGYyggkkIcFsw-3D-3D>
>National Federation of the Blind logo and tagline live the life
>
>
>
>
>Save the Date and Call for Presenters: National 
>Federation of the Blind 2024 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium
>
>
>
>
>
>"The Right of People with Disabilities to Live 
>in the World: Emergent Barriers and Unrealized Potential”
>
>
>
>March 21-22, 2024, in Baltimore, Maryland
>
>Join us for interactive workshops and in-depth 
>plenary sessions as we focus on intersectional 
>representation in the disability rights 
>community. Mark your calendar, and plan to 
>attend March 21-22, 2024. Registration and hotel 
>information to open January 2024.
>
>Request for Plenary Speakers and Workshop Facilitators
>
>
>
>Submit a proposal to speak during a plenary 
>session or facilitate a workshop. Use the 
>following requirements and topics to help with your submission.
>
>Specifications
>
>
>
>·   Proposed plenary sessions should be no 
>longer than ninety minutes with up to three speakers.
>
>·   Proposed workshops should be no longer than 
>sixty minutes with no more than two facilitators.
>
>·   We strive to provide diverse and inclusive 
>programming, so please consider how your 
>presentation will encourage the exchange of 
>differing ideas, experiences, and perspectives.
>
>Broad Topics
>
>
>
>·       Technology in the workplace
>
>·       Telework and telehealth as a new form of segregation
>
>·       Access to the internet and digital accessibility
>
>·       Two years afterCummings v. Premiere Rehab Keller: the state of the law
>
>·       The impact of AI in the employment, 
>education, and healthcare of people with disabilities
>
>·       Creative thinking on ways to make good 
>law that is palatable to the current Supreme Court
>
>·       Acheson Hotels, LLC v. Laufer
>
>·       Criminalization of disability, and 
>advocacy efforts for the rights of incarcerated people with disabilities
>
>·       Use of class action in IEP due process hearing cases
>
>·       Intersection of disability, race, sexual 
>orientation, and gender identity
>
>·       Disability rights and voting
>
>·       A year in review – key disability rights 
>cases and what they mean moving forward
>
>·       SCOTUS watch
>
>·       Religious freedom and impact on disability rights
>
>·       Litigation strategies, techniques, and 
>best practices in disability rights cases
>
>·       Legal strategies for enforcing disability rights
>
>·       Disability rights and education post pandemic
>
>·       The impact of racial, gender, and sexual 
>orientation on disability rights in education
>
>·       The future ofOlmstead
>
>·       Access to technology such as telehealth platforms
>
>·       Racial and cultural bias, and disability rights
>
>·       Issues related to the hybrid/remote workplace
>
>·       Creating inclusive spaces for people with disabilities post pandemic
>
>·       The impact of racial, gender, and sexual 
>orientation bias on disability rights in family 
>law, education, housing, and employment
>
>·       Insufficient data in health care system 
>and electronic records of people with disabilities.
>
>·       Bias of healthcare professionals towards people with disabilities.
>
>·       Barriers to immigration
>
>·       Impact of legislation on accessibility
>
>How to Apply
>
>
>
>Email a one-page plenary session/workshop 
>proposal on or before October 31, 2023, that 
>includes the following information:
>
>1. Name of presenter(s) and organization(s).
>
>2. Contact telephone number and email address for each presenter.
>
>3. Plenary session/workshop title.
>
>4. Description of the plenary session/workshop, 
>including its main goals, the relevancy and 
>timeliness of the topic/issues to be addressed, 
>whether you have presented the workshop before, 
>and how the speakers/facilitators/topics/issues 
>will enhance the diversity and inclusiveness of the symposium.
>
>5. Please attach a current CV and bio (if available) for each presenter.
>
>Submission Deadline:
>
>
>
>All plenary and workshop proposals are duevia 
>email 
>to<https://u32452178.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=mTCu8dGvOkl-2BXqaCK8sZ2XZsIV-2FIHwCJ1wu82RzQMT8t64jmb9bmcUogA-2Bzxye9vSdT32t2wYZUKDgJH-2F-2BcOhIJbbWvkkptwCVaeBRu4wx8-3DU-43_JDnq4OQIisTnRRrmTP5a-2BIuhR7pDh5PUkvCTSv4DnmNh2HfYUV-2FXdji4aOZ-2B33Qx7Ua2k0x9orALH8woQboPsP2Kob64cGJSruUF7JLutoYLUP4qo9wPrwdVctkrj6Wy3Xl9Qk3LnPQqfJwnklk1WmqjGm8G5B4g-2FmzHQVemd16bDxolim4efN00mvTGcZxhtANg86rWwuqJnhGRJO2i1g-3D-3D>Jen 
>White,by Tuesday, October 31, 2023. Individuals 
>who submit a proposal will be notified of the decision by December 15, 2023.
>
>About the Symposium
>
>
>
>The 
><https://u32452178.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=mTCu8dGvOkl-2BXqaCK8sZ2XZsIV-2FIHwCJ1wu82RzQMT8t64jmb9bmcUogA-2Bzxye9vn-2BcwerhtP4vRLfAgARiRXgyjxSZRJCsgHYMpxbDkeTo-3DBo3q_JDnq4OQIisTnRRrmTP5a-2BIuhR7pDh5PUkvCTSv4DnmNh2HfYUV-2FXdji4aOZ-2B33Qxuz2PgLJKJ9F-2FSt26FAmFkMCQJ83ingFULjNDb-2BtiMAR-2BjiOEwQvnv6HyKcZS9esgo4XPbn1QkChQSuUZ5NFLCrTYCW-2F-2Fy7-2FNqcd44-2FlI-2Ffq1DIlOTKb7wTf739dlb4jBZ-2F-2FRZj2smCfJLo4jrqzMGA-3D-3D>Jacobus 
>tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is the leading 
>disability law conference in the United States 
>that brings nationally renowned disability 
>rights advocates together. The symposium depends 
>on the inclusion of all viewpoints and 
>persuasions from the broadest spectrum of 
>individuals and organizations in the disability 
>rights community. Continuing Dr. tenBroek’s 
>lifelong pursuit of dignity, equality, and full 
>participation in society by the disabled 
>requires the thoughts and ideas of people from 
>diverse worlds and world views. 
><https://u32452178.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=mTCu8dGvOkl-2BXqaCK8sZ2XZsIV-2FIHwCJ1wu82RzQMT8t64jmb9bmcUogA-2Bzxye9vVkZ-2FALcH0nucWoWyk0trVb5OqW7PReWNq-2FnCU6FGcsU-3DSAw9_JDnq4OQIisTnRRrmTP5a-2BIuhR7pDh5PUkvCTSv4DnmNh2HfYUV-2FXdji4aOZ-2B33QxgYKEz1jyw9fE-2BXfuMQqaFE-2FVfZf0Q46iIb3ePd-2BdgOUB0tZ4W7Ul8G5Si0fulS9ibdpKNLR2Cw8NkFuv-2B8WBQ-2BoKX6yBHYjiWMpwz41guYB-2F7tvyu9H-2FNA6-2FF9wD48h76X9xEkzx0HwSV8nxWnImNQ-3D-3D>Learn 
>more about Jacobus tenBroek.
>
>
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>
>
>
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>United States
>
>..

From maxs71055 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 09:25:18 2023
From: maxs71055 at gmail.com (Max Smith)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 02:25:18 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
Message-ID: <1CA5658A-030D-408E-931B-71DBC7E4F3DD@gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have been brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or companies that are considered inaccessible. The testers are compensated when the law firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially, this could be perceived as a form of extortion.

If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
 




From michael.mcglashon at comcast.net  Fri Sep  1 15:32:02 2023
From: michael.mcglashon at comcast.net (MIKE MCGLASHON)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 10:32:02 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <1CA5658A-030D-408E-931B-71DBC7E4F3DD@gmail.com>
References: <1CA5658A-030D-408E-931B-71DBC7E4F3DD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3da201d9dce9$7baf3170$730d9450$@comcast.net>

Even if something like that exists,
I bet on this list, one would hardly call it extortion;
They are more likely to call it the inaccessible got ya police.


Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
Ph: 618 783 9331

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Max Smith via
BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 4:25 AM
To: BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: Max Smith <maxs71055 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources

Hello everyone,

I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have been
brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled
individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are
subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or companies
that are considered inaccessible. The testers are compensated when the law
firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially, this could be perceived as a form of
extortion.

If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly appreciate
the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
 



_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40co
mcast.net



From dennis at dgclark.net  Fri Sep  1 17:18:29 2023
From: dennis at dgclark.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 10:18:29 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <1CA5658A-030D-408E-931B-71DBC7E4F3DD@gmail.com>
References: <1CA5658A-030D-408E-931B-71DBC7E4F3DD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0d8cf89a-440b-5f9e-38f3-4f452c205da2@dgclark.net>

Hello Max,

Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can 
better provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because your 
question as presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads like a 
possible law school exam question.

All the best,

Dennis


On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have been brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or companies that are considered inaccessible. The testers are compensated when the law firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially, this could be perceived as a form of extortion.
>
> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>   
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgclark.net
>


From michael.mcglashon at comcast.net  Fri Sep  1 17:25:33 2023
From: michael.mcglashon at comcast.net (MIKE MCGLASHON)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:25:33 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <0d8cf89a-440b-5f9e-38f3-4f452c205da2@dgclark.net>
References: <1CA5658A-030D-408E-931B-71DBC7E4F3DD@gmail.com>
 <0d8cf89a-440b-5f9e-38f3-4f452c205da2@dgclark.net>
Message-ID: <406701d9dcf9$53450560$f9cf1020$@comcast.net>

It sounds like a topic for a final law school paper


Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
Ph: 618 783 9331

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dennis Clark via
BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:18 PM
To: Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Dennis Clark <dennis at dgclark.net>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources

Hello Max,

Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can better
provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because your question as
presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads like a possible law school
exam question.

All the best,

Dennis


On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have been
brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled
individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are
subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or companies
that are considered inaccessible. The testers are compensated when the law
firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially, this could be perceived as a form of
extortion.
>
> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly appreciate
the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>   
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgclark
> .net
>

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mcast.net



From AMatney at reedsmith.com  Fri Sep  1 19:34:10 2023
From: AMatney at reedsmith.com (Matney, Angela R.)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 19:34:10 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS
Message-ID: <5b4093fcc448440aabbc030543f8f84a@reedsmith.com>

Hello everyone,

I need to edit and review Word documents that contain tables with non-uniform layouts. For example, most rows of a table in the document I’m currently working on contain three columns. But some rows are used as headings, and the heading spans all three columns, though it’s a single cell in the table. The problem is that if I use control-alt-down to navigate to the next row, JAWS will skip over these “heading” rows unless I am in the first column. This is somewhat annoying, as the first column basically contains nothing but numbers, and I would prefer to “skim” the table by staying on the second column, which contains the substantive entries. But I would like JAWS to announce the headings and not simply skip to the next row containing three columns.

I’ve also experienced this with tables where the columns do not have the same number of rows. (And, in one mind-altering instance, with a table that had both of these going on!)

I’ve searched (OK, maybe it was a fairly cursory search…) for JAWS settings that might impact this behavior, but I haven’t yet found anything. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Angie (AKA Vexed in Virginia)


Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>

Bio<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|E-Mail|<mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com<http://www.reedsmith.com/>

1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith




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This E-mail, along with any attachments, is considered confidential and may well be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you for your cooperation.

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From graham.hardy at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 20:51:27 2023
From: graham.hardy at gmail.com (graham.hardy at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:51:27 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <5b4093fcc448440aabbc030543f8f84a@reedsmith.com>
References: <5b4093fcc448440aabbc030543f8f84a@reedsmith.com>
Message-ID: <26e301d9dd16$13e45390$3bacfab0$@gmail.com>

There are a couple of commands I use to navigate tables, some of which are more efficient than others. I've been known to copy a table from Word and paste it in Excel. When all else fails, I sometimes get a web page preview by invoking the WebPagePreview command from within the macro/command launcher invoked with Alt+F8. This brings up a page in your default web browser from which you can of course view, but not edit, the table, enough to get acquainted with it.

* Tab and Shift+Tab move from one cell to the next. This sometimes does better in non-uniform tables but is a bit slow. It also adds a row if you press it at the bottom, which can be undone if it's a mistake.

* Ctrl+Up and Ctrl+Down similarly move among cells and among paragraphs within each. Sometimes this is better. Other times it gets stuck in a non-uniform row.

* Alt+Windows+arrow keys are JAWS commands that are supposed to move to the next or previous row or column and read the entire row or column. This is supposed to allow you to get an entire row read at once with each press of Alt+Windows+Down. This used to be the best way for dealing with non-uniform rows but recently ithas stopped speaking. I've been meaning to call technical support but haven't gotten around to it.

Also, if headings are properly tagged, you can navigate to them with regular heading commands in the JAWSKey+Z layer.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Matney, Angela R. via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:34 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

Hello everyone,

I need to edit and review Word documents that contain tables with non-uniform layouts. For example, most rows of a table in the document I’m currently working on contain three columns. But some rows are used as headings, and the heading spans all three columns, though it’s a single cell in the table. The problem is that if I use control-alt-down to navigate to the next row, JAWS will skip over these “heading” rows unless I am in the first column. This is somewhat annoying, as the first column basically contains nothing but numbers, and I would prefer to “skim” the table by staying on the second column, which contains the substantive entries. But I would like JAWS to announce the headings and not simply skip to the next row containing three columns.

I’ve also experienced this with tables where the columns do not have the same number of rows. (And, in one mind-altering instance, with a table that had both of these going on!)

I’ve searched (OK, maybe it was a fairly cursory search…) for JAWS settings that might impact this behavior, but I haven’t yet found anything. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Angie (AKA Vexed in Virginia)


Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>

Bio<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|E-Mail|<mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com<http://www.reedsmith.com/>

1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith




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This E-mail, along with any attachments, is considered confidential and may well be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you for your cooperation.

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From AMatney at reedsmith.com  Fri Sep  1 21:04:08 2023
From: AMatney at reedsmith.com (Matney, Angela R.)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 21:04:08 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <26e301d9dd16$13e45390$3bacfab0$@gmail.com>
References: <5b4093fcc448440aabbc030543f8f84a@reedsmith.com>
 <26e301d9dd16$13e45390$3bacfab0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0bd42f4b2134678b5661d6d8b534988@reedsmith.com>

Thanks, Graham, some good ideas here.

I find that sometimes using tab and shift+tab causes JAWS to crash. I think this has to do with some integrations that my firm has with Office. I generally have to restart JAWS manually when this occurs. But I do appreciate you sending this list of suggestions. I might be able to have a review copy open in one window and another editable copy open elsewhere.

Best,

Angie


Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>

Bio<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|E-Mail|<mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com<http://www.reedsmith.com/>

1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith

From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Graham Hardy via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 4:51 PM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: graham.hardy at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

EXTERNAL E-MAIL - From blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
There are a couple of commands I use to navigate tables, some of which are more efficient than others. I've been known to copy a table from Word and paste it in Excel. When all else fails, I sometimes get a web page preview by invoking the WebPagePreview command from within the macro/command launcher invoked with Alt+F8. This brings up a page in your default web browser from which you can of course view, but not edit, the table, enough to get acquainted with it.

* Tab and Shift+Tab move from one cell to the next. This sometimes does better in non-uniform tables but is a bit slow. It also adds a row if you press it at the bottom, which can be undone if it's a mistake.

* Ctrl+Up and Ctrl+Down similarly move among cells and among paragraphs within each. Sometimes this is better. Other times it gets stuck in a non-uniform row.

* Alt+Windows+arrow keys are JAWS commands that are supposed to move to the next or previous row or column and read the entire row or column. This is supposed to allow you to get an entire row read at once with each press of Alt+Windows+Down. This used to be the best way for dealing with non-uniform rows but recently ithas stopped speaking. I've been meaning to call technical support but haven't gotten around to it.

Also, if headings are properly tagged, you can navigate to them with regular heading commands in the JAWSKey+Z layer.




External Signed
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Matney, Angela R. via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:34 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:AMatney at reedsmith.com>>
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

Hello everyone,

I need to edit and review Word documents that contain tables with non-uniform layouts. For example, most rows of a table in the document I’m currently working on contain three columns. But some rows are used as headings, and the heading spans all three columns, though it’s a single cell in the table. The problem is that if I use control-alt-down to navigate to the next row, JAWS will skip over these “heading” rows unless I am in the first column. This is somewhat annoying, as the first column basically contains nothing but numbers, and I would prefer to “skim” the table by staying on the second column, which contains the substantive entries. But I would like JAWS to announce the headings and not simply skip to the next row containing three columns.

I’ve also experienced this with tables where the columns do not have the same number of rows. (And, in one mind-altering instance, with a table that had both of these going on!)

I’ve searched (OK, maybe it was a fairly cursory search…) for JAWS settings that might impact this behavior, but I haven’t yet found anything. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Angie (AKA Vexed in Virginia)


Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com%3cmailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>>

Bio<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|E-Mail|<mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com<http://www.reedsmith.com/>

1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith




* * *

This E-mail, along with any attachments, is considered confidential and may well be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you for your cooperation.

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From graham.hardy at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 21:15:47 2023
From: graham.hardy at gmail.com (graham.hardy at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 14:15:47 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <a0bd42f4b2134678b5661d6d8b534988@reedsmith.com>
References: <5b4093fcc448440aabbc030543f8f84a@reedsmith.com>
 <26e301d9dd16$13e45390$3bacfab0$@gmail.com>
 <a0bd42f4b2134678b5661d6d8b534988@reedsmith.com>
Message-ID: <26fe01d9dd19$7a52d4f0$6ef87ed0$@gmail.com>

I used to be at a firm with lots of customisations that caused crashes, too. I even remember using the prompt creator to try and re-label dialog controls only to discover that it acted like it was working but it never actually changed the labels in those add-ons. Let’s just say there are countless edge cases in JAWS that aren’t well tested. JAWS is great, but it just wasn’t designed by lawyers, I think we can agree on that!

 

From: Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com> 
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 2:04 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: graham.hardy at gmail.com
Subject: RE: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

 

Thanks, Graham, some good ideas here.

 

I find that sometimes using tab and shift+tab causes JAWS to crash. I think this has to do with some integrations that my firm has with Office. I generally have to restart JAWS manually when this occurs. But I do appreciate you sending this list of suggestions. I might be able to have a review copy open in one window and another editable copy open elsewhere. 

 

Best,

 

Angie

 

 

Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)

Counsel

D: +1 202-414-9343

Preferred pronouns: she/her

amatney at reedsmith.com <mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com> 

 

Bio <https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela> |vCard <https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard> |E-Mail <mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com> |ReedSmith.com <http://www.reedsmith.com/> 


1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000

Washington, DC 20005

 

ReedSmith

 

From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Graham Hardy via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 4:51 PM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: graham.hardy at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

 

EXTERNAL E-MAIL - From blindlaw at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> 

There are a couple of commands I use to navigate tables, some of which are more efficient than others. I've been known to copy a table from Word and paste it in Excel. When all else fails, I sometimes get a web page preview by invoking the WebPagePreview command from within the macro/command launcher invoked with Alt+F8. This brings up a page in your default web browser from which you can of course view, but not edit, the table, enough to get acquainted with it.

* Tab and Shift+Tab move from one cell to the next. This sometimes does better in non-uniform tables but is a bit slow. It also adds a row if you press it at the bottom, which can be undone if it's a mistake.

* Ctrl+Up and Ctrl+Down similarly move among cells and among paragraphs within each. Sometimes this is better. Other times it gets stuck in a non-uniform row.

* Alt+Windows+arrow keys are JAWS commands that are supposed to move to the next or previous row or column and read the entire row or column. This is supposed to allow you to get an entire row read at once with each press of Alt+Windows+Down. This used to be the best way for dealing with non-uniform rows but recently ithas stopped speaking. I've been meaning to call technical support but haven't gotten around to it.

Also, if headings are properly tagged, you can navigate to them with regular heading commands in the JAWSKey+Z layer.






External Signed

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Matney, Angela R. via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:34 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com <mailto:AMatney at reedsmith.com> >
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

Hello everyone,

I need to edit and review Word documents that contain tables with non-uniform layouts. For example, most rows of a table in the document I’m currently working on contain three columns. But some rows are used as headings, and the heading spans all three columns, though it’s a single cell in the table. The problem is that if I use control-alt-down to navigate to the next row, JAWS will skip over these “heading” rows unless I am in the first column. This is somewhat annoying, as the first column basically contains nothing but numbers, and I would prefer to “skim” the table by staying on the second column, which contains the substantive entries. But I would like JAWS to announce the headings and not simply skip to the next row containing three columns.

I’ve also experienced this with tables where the columns do not have the same number of rows. (And, in one mind-altering instance, with a table that had both of these going on!)

I’ve searched (OK, maybe it was a fairly cursory search…) for JAWS settings that might impact this behavior, but I haven’t yet found anything. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Angie (AKA Vexed in Virginia)


Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com <mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com%3cmailto:amatney at reedsmith.com> <mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>

Bio<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|E-Mail|<mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com<http://www.reedsmith.com/>

1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith




* * *

This E-mail, along with any attachments, is considered confidential and may well be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you for your cooperation.

Disclaimer Version RS.US.201.407.01
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From sbg at sbgaal.com  Sat Sep  2 01:08:29 2023
From: sbg at sbgaal.com (sbg sbgaal.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 01:08:29 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Super Accessible Rules of Evidence
In-Reply-To: <CAL6jpezb0PxD3Bt8oWwzdjiWahwPtEh2R3UajR8ZE+rYNDvMUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <636D80C1-1F99-4DBE-AC62-0EC4C9CAC390@gmail.com>
 <2BD4A26D-523B-4DC7-B92C-ECB22F78CBFC@gmail.com>
 <CAL6jpezb0PxD3Bt8oWwzdjiWahwPtEh2R3UajR8ZE+rYNDvMUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PH0PR22MB2631B5B98A854707FE2F323BD9EBA@PH0PR22MB2631.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks so much!

Sincerely,

Shannon Brady Geihsler

Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC
1212 Texas Avenue
Lubbock, Texas 79401
Office:  (806) 763-3999
Mobile:  (806) 781-9296
Fax:  (806) 749-3752
E-Mail:  sbg at sbgaal.com
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2023 3:26 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Super Accessible Rules of Evidence

All,

My accessible and searchable rules of evidence are attached in Word and Excel. I'll send similar versions of the FRCP next week.

Warmth,
Sanho

Warmth,
Sanho

On 8/30/23, Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com> wrote:
> If Maura, Julie, or any of the other recent law grads I've sent the 
> FRE and FRCP to would like to share them with the list, please do. 
> I'll send mine ASAP. My laptop's having trouble with the internet at the moment.
>
> Sanho
>
>> On Aug 30, 2023, at 3:57 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw 
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I will attach my copy of the federal rules in word to a separate message.
>> Expect it later tonight. It’s on a hard drive and I am elbow deep in 
>> cooking dinner at the moment.
>>
>> If anyone would like me to share some of the other evidence materials 
>> that I’ve collected just email me at:Maurakut at buffalo.edu
>>
>> Warmly,
>>
>> Maura Kutnyak
>> 716-563-9882
>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2023, at 3:38 PM, A. Rashid Deme via BlindLaw 
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good afternoon,
>>> I wold like a copy as well.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> A Rashid Dème
>>>
>>> He/his
>>> J.D Candidate
>>> 248-508-9146
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of 
>>> Seif-Eldeen Saqallah via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2023 1:24 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Seif-Eldeen Saqallah <seifs at umich.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Super Accessible Rules of Evidence
>>>
>>> Me too, please (seifs at umich.edu); or it might be better to email the 
>>> listserve with an attachment?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rashiddeme%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>>
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>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/maurakutnyak%4
>>> 0gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmai
>> l.com
>


--
He/Him

From AMatney at reedsmith.com  Sat Sep  2 22:38:25 2023
From: AMatney at reedsmith.com (Matney, Angela R.)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 22:38:25 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <26fe01d9dd19$7a52d4f0$6ef87ed0$@gmail.com>
References: <5b4093fcc448440aabbc030543f8f84a@reedsmith.com>
 <26e301d9dd16$13e45390$3bacfab0$@gmail.com>
 <a0bd42f4b2134678b5661d6d8b534988@reedsmith.com>
 <26fe01d9dd19$7a52d4f0$6ef87ed0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf812ad019b14dc29b43d826b3f15bf7@reedsmith.com>

Absolutely!

By the way, the Alt+Windows+Arrow commands speak for me, but in one document, I get the message from JAWS that “The table is nonuniform, so you cannot read the current column.” Oh well. I really didn’t want to hear the entire row/column at once anyway. I want to quickly move between entries in a particular row or column and know when I’m passing by one of these multi-cell entries. I may try viewing it as a webpage.

And yes, JAWS is great in general, but these hiccups can be frustrating.


Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>

Bio<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|E-Mail|<mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com<http://www.reedsmith.com/>

1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith

From: graham.hardy at gmail.com <graham.hardy at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 5:16 PM
To: Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com>; 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: RE: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

EXTERNAL E-MAIL - From graham.hardy at gmail.com<mailto:graham.hardy at gmail.com>
I used to be at a firm with lots of customisations that caused crashes, too. I even remember using the prompt creator to try and re-label dialog controls only to discover that it acted like it was working but it never actually changed the labels in those add-ons. Let’s just say t ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌


<https://us.report.cybergraph.mimecast.com/alert-details/?dep=XbU%2BehzWLpdLFUTlN%2F0ssg%3D%3Deffd9vL6R%2FYqDdn7WsBvuUxF6NBgOX9RfdmuMQNTl7svFS1JACJgH6YcLThXTC%2BcfGzTZdTcRwXCLIHt5uCfadt79aWmOn2ZPjYBBzeg1e6SnWy7UC5cwF2JlghcJb4rIwj8DEO8J163RpjIu6ELkYUl1aiDGw1re%2BG5bKF8ASP%2BHsB49yHJjydnp0fn8mwfJLN08hvXhg2qzRq7hvHxKB5t%2B9dxsASBib2uPMlDQzfFRJBEqZmlQjssY6J8OM1B%2BMDbm1qwL6Vvqu22jBIYN1xd3%2BB1Yg8gYsbtYc%2BK%2F4iSN8U%2Fh%2BPAgZ4vsyjFVaWobrao4m5QmkMktcCFkRRp1julmeotMnlTPHH3FobOTaiZbkGEdy0yRFwYDjO%2B2RQMlOosa1cz4GPJ5z0QvzQHMpSnudISVFcF5XjICLfzOoTGkwbbzLeyn59NMYoXZ5iMRZUBLBw2lSQDN8TaSCiopjNHRTFvplnb2gyo9rO%2BowDT%2BxjuPiw%2BZEUbsk2pGnJZBrvDGCzwZa7PwKF3ozQDgPQPW1u8nRLpqc506gC67uGln0jXiOo58rdAG6tdOACQdhpS7G%2BZA037AvF%2B2hvu57rCmlVufnTbirnyE79U3QPU1GNl8o3FON9LUVxXlrYS1c84xNMx04DFS%2FMgBCk1bIB7U7WuEW0NTsIJVBmPKsMgVuIwa%2FV1lyq94LND0AxRbsmN7Dfc7MIpQEjG%2FZ1%2B2A%3D%3D>

I used to be at a firm with lots of customisations that caused crashes, too. I even remember using the prompt creator to try and re-label dialog controls only to discover that it acted like it was working but it never actually changed the labels in those add-ons. Let’s just say there are countless edge cases in JAWS that aren’t well tested. JAWS is great, but it just wasn’t designed by lawyers, I think we can agree on that!





External Signed
From: Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:AMatney at reedsmith.com>>
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 2:04 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: graham.hardy at gmail.com<mailto:graham.hardy at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

Thanks, Graham, some good ideas here.

I find that sometimes using tab and shift+tab causes JAWS to crash. I think this has to do with some integrations that my firm has with Office. I generally have to restart JAWS manually when this occurs. But I do appreciate you sending this list of suggestions. I might be able to have a review copy open in one window and another editable copy open elsewhere.

Best,

Angie


Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>

Bio<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|E-Mail|<mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com<http://www.reedsmith.com/>

1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith

From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Graham Hardy via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 4:51 PM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: graham.hardy at gmail.com<mailto:graham.hardy at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

EXTERNAL E-MAIL - From blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
There are a couple of commands I use to navigate tables, some of which are more efficient than others. I've been known to copy a table from Word and paste it in Excel. When all else fails, I sometimes get a web page preview by invoking the WebPagePreview command from within the macro/command launcher invoked with Alt+F8. This brings up a page in your default web browser from which you can of course view, but not edit, the table, enough to get acquainted with it.

* Tab and Shift+Tab move from one cell to the next. This sometimes does better in non-uniform tables but is a bit slow. It also adds a row if you press it at the bottom, which can be undone if it's a mistake.

* Ctrl+Up and Ctrl+Down similarly move among cells and among paragraphs within each. Sometimes this is better. Other times it gets stuck in a non-uniform row.

* Alt+Windows+arrow keys are JAWS commands that are supposed to move to the next or previous row or column and read the entire row or column. This is supposed to allow you to get an entire row read at once with each press of Alt+Windows+Down. This used to be the best way for dealing with non-uniform rows but recently ithas stopped speaking. I've been meaning to call technical support but haven't gotten around to it.

Also, if headings are properly tagged, you can navigate to them with regular heading commands in the JAWSKey+Z layer.


External Signed
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Matney, Angela R. via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:34 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:AMatney at reedsmith.com>>
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

Hello everyone,

I need to edit and review Word documents that contain tables with non-uniform layouts. For example, most rows of a table in the document I’m currently working on contain three columns. But some rows are used as headings, and the heading spans all three columns, though it’s a single cell in the table. The problem is that if I use control-alt-down to navigate to the next row, JAWS will skip over these “heading” rows unless I am in the first column. This is somewhat annoying, as the first column basically contains nothing but numbers, and I would prefer to “skim” the table by staying on the second column, which contains the substantive entries. But I would like JAWS to announce the headings and not simply skip to the next row containing three columns.

I’ve also experienced this with tables where the columns do not have the same number of rows. (And, in one mind-altering instance, with a table that had both of these going on!)

I’ve searched (OK, maybe it was a fairly cursory search…) for JAWS settings that might impact this behavior, but I haven’t yet found anything. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Angie (AKA Vexed in Virginia)


Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com%3cmailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>>

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1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith




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From maxs71055 at gmail.com  Sun Sep  3 08:50:04 2023
From: maxs71055 at gmail.com (Max Smith)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 01:50:04 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <406701d9dcf9$53450560$f9cf1020$@comcast.net>
References: <406701d9dcf9$53450560$f9cf1020$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <A611806F-2B66-42A6-A037-1C8F3A90B95D@gmail.com>

Hello Dennis,
I am a current law student with a strong interest in web accessibility. I am reaching out because I believe it is highly unethical for these law firms to engage in such practices.


> On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:27 AM, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> It sounds like a topic for a final law school paper
> 
> 
> Please advise as you like.
> 
> Mike M.
> 
> Mike mcglashon
> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
> Ph: 618 783 9331
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dennis Clark via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:18 PM
> To: Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Dennis Clark <dennis at dgclark.net>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
> 
> Hello Max,
> 
> Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can better
> provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because your question as
> presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads like a possible law school
> exam question.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
>> On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have been
> brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled
> individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are
> subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or companies
> that are considered inaccessible. The testers are compensated when the law
> firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially, this could be perceived as a form of
> extortion.
>> 
>> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly appreciate
> the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgclark
>> .net
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
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> mcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blind247365%40gmail.com


From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com  Sun Sep  3 16:24:03 2023
From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 17:24:03 +0100
Subject: [blindLaw] Access to US Case Law
Message-ID: <CAGZitz+DbBR-LxLmYpsfWhU4Tg+YPyoH0JgUvHTx3MgcsPWQ+w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

I'm not based in the US but want to do some research into US case law,
both State and Federal. Can you please point me to the best
non-subscription resources?

Kind regards

Ger


From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com  Sun Sep  3 16:27:15 2023
From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 17:27:15 +0100
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <A611806F-2B66-42A6-A037-1C8F3A90B95D@gmail.com>
References: <406701d9dcf9$53450560$f9cf1020$@comcast.net>
 <A611806F-2B66-42A6-A037-1C8F3A90B95D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGZitz+Z86uEv-GLWwfsVd9u9ngTgJbQiRiX3eS97gV8sduQ5g@mail.gmail.com>

Just for the sake of the argument, why would this be unethical,
assuming the websites in question really are inaccessible, contrary to
the law?

Kind regards

Ger

On 9/3/23, Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello Dennis,
> I am a current law student with a strong interest in web accessibility. I am
> reaching out because I believe it is highly unethical for these law firms to
> engage in such practices.
>
>
>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:27 AM, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> It sounds like a topic for a final law school paper
>>
>>
>> Please advise as you like.
>>
>> Mike M.
>>
>> Mike mcglashon
>> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
>> Ph: 618 783 9331
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dennis Clark via
>> BlindLaw
>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:18 PM
>> To: Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Dennis Clark <dennis at dgclark.net>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>
>> Hello Max,
>>
>> Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can better
>> provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because your question as
>> presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads like a possible law
>> school
>> exam question.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>> On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have been
>> brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled
>> individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are
>> subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or companies
>> that are considered inaccessible. The testers are compensated when the law
>> firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially, this could be perceived as a form
>> of
>> extortion.
>>>
>>> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly appreciate
>> the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgclark
>>> .net
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40co
>> mcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blind247365%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
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>


From sanho817 at gmail.com  Sun Sep  3 18:57:56 2023
From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 14:57:56 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <CAGZitz+Z86uEv-GLWwfsVd9u9ngTgJbQiRiX3eS97gV8sduQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGZitz+Z86uEv-GLWwfsVd9u9ngTgJbQiRiX3eS97gV8sduQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B0A5B58B-8E17-4C88-9E16-AA37C064501A@gmail.com>

Max, 

Is it your belief that law firms shouldn't be allowed to collect attorneys' fees in cases where they had a blind tester test a website to begin with? 

Sanho 

> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Just for the sake of the argument, why would this be unethical,
> assuming the websites in question really are inaccessible, contrary to
> the law?
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Ger
> 
>> On 9/3/23, Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello Dennis,
>> I am a current law student with a strong interest in web accessibility. I am
>> reaching out because I believe it is highly unethical for these law firms to
>> engage in such practices.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:27 AM, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It sounds like a topic for a final law school paper
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please advise as you like.
>>> 
>>> Mike M.
>>> 
>>> Mike mcglashon
>>> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
>>> Ph: 618 783 9331
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dennis Clark via
>>> BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:18 PM
>>> To: Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Dennis Clark <dennis at dgclark.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>> 
>>> Hello Max,
>>> 
>>> Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can better
>>> provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because your question as
>>> presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads like a possible law
>>> school
>>> exam question.
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> 
>>> Dennis
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have been
>>> brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled
>>> individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are
>>> subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or companies
>>> that are considered inaccessible. The testers are compensated when the law
>>> firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially, this could be perceived as a form
>>> of
>>> extortion.
>>>> 
>>>> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly appreciate
>>> the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgclark
>>>> .net
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglashon%40co
>>> mcast.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blind247365%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com


From rodalcidonis at gmail.com  Sun Sep  3 19:44:49 2023
From: rodalcidonis at gmail.com (rodalcidonis at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 15:44:49 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <B0A5B58B-8E17-4C88-9E16-AA37C064501A@gmail.com>
References: <CAGZitz+Z86uEv-GLWwfsVd9u9ngTgJbQiRiX3eS97gV8sduQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <B0A5B58B-8E17-4C88-9E16-AA37C064501A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005501d9de9f$1a1217e0$4e3647a0$@gmail.com>

Testing to identify potential civil rights violation is not new. This is a practice regularly employed in housing discrimination investigations. As previously suggested, this is definitely a good topic for a law school paper but as a practical matter, I don't see anything unethical about this. It is one of the investigative tactics that can be used to uncover violations.


Rod,


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
Sent: Sunday, September 3, 2023 2:58 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources

Max, 

Is it your belief that law firms shouldn't be allowed to collect attorneys' fees in cases where they had a blind tester test a website to begin with? 

Sanho 

> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Just for the sake of the argument, why would this be unethical, 
> assuming the websites in question really are inaccessible, contrary to 
> the law?
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Ger
> 
>> On 9/3/23, Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello Dennis,
>> I am a current law student with a strong interest in web 
>> accessibility. I am reaching out because I believe it is highly 
>> unethical for these law firms to engage in such practices.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:27 AM, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw 
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It sounds like a topic for a final law school paper
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please advise as you like.
>>> 
>>> Mike M.
>>> 
>>> Mike mcglashon
>>> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
>>> Ph: 618 783 9331
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dennis 
>>> Clark via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:18 PM
>>> To: Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Dennis Clark <dennis at dgclark.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>> 
>>> Hello Max,
>>> 
>>> Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can 
>>> better provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because 
>>> your question as presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads 
>>> like a possible law school exam question.
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> 
>>> Dennis
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have 
>>>> been
>>> brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled 
>>> individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are 
>>> subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or 
>>> companies that are considered inaccessible. The testers are 
>>> compensated when the law firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially, 
>>> this could be perceived as a form of extortion.
>>>> 
>>>> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly 
>>>> appreciate
>>> the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgcl
>>>> ark
>>>> .net
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglas
>>> hon%40co
>>> mcast.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blind247365%40
>>> gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%
>> 40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail
> .com

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com



From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Mon Sep  4 02:33:46 2023
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie A. Orozco)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 22:33:46 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Client Interviews and Search Light
Message-ID: <CAHox4D+j0NZ8M0MXBfb-zXtm_scMtAkKs6TuHHipUX-4eXOz+w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm working in our university's civil advocacy clinic this semester,
and I have two questions.

First, this might be a long shot, but has anyone used Search Light
before? It's a program where you can upload a video and then cut out
clips. Our clinic instructor wants us to film our simulations and
client interviews, record them over Zoom, and then upload them to
Search Light. Then we have to choose clips from the video to show the
class. I don't have high hopes for this but wanted to see if it might
be usable with Jaws.

Also, any tips for client interviewing? Have any of you encounted
clients who don't want to work with you because of your blindness? If
so, how have you dealt with it? Perhaps I'm just worrying for no
reason, but our clinic professor is building up interviewing like it's
the most important thing in the world, so I'm getting nervous.

Thanks everyone,

Julie


-- 
Julie A. Orozco
MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
Law, JD Candidate 2023


From sanho817 at gmail.com  Mon Sep  4 02:50:44 2023
From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 22:50:44 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Client Interviews and Search Light
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4D+j0NZ8M0MXBfb-zXtm_scMtAkKs6TuHHipUX-4eXOz+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4D+j0NZ8M0MXBfb-zXtm_scMtAkKs6TuHHipUX-4eXOz+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL6jpexV5aF93aFGxX4vorC_VNinGehm=hvKKXKat83gmSGWQA@mail.gmail.com>

Julie,

To your first point, you could do an audio interview and use Audacity
or Reaper to get the same effect without encountering inaccessible
video editing software. It could also be a useful demonstration of our
ability to notice vocal cues and other unconscious signals.

To your second, client interviewing usually takes up a third to half
of my workday. It's one of my favorite things about being an attorney.
I've had a couple of clients who wanted to know how I accessed
documents, labeled evidence, etcetera, but they came around when I
gave them straightforward answers. The small amount of intractability
I've faced has always come from other legal professionals. Clients
just wanted to be sure I had strategies in place.

Warmth,
Sanho

On 9/3/23, Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm working in our university's civil advocacy clinic this semester,
> and I have two questions.
>
> First, this might be a long shot, but has anyone used Search Light
> before? It's a program where you can upload a video and then cut out
> clips. Our clinic instructor wants us to film our simulations and
> client interviews, record them over Zoom, and then upload them to
> Search Light. Then we have to choose clips from the video to show the
> class. I don't have high hopes for this but wanted to see if it might
> be usable with Jaws.
>
> Also, any tips for client interviewing? Have any of you encounted
> clients who don't want to work with you because of your blindness? If
> so, how have you dealt with it? Perhaps I'm just worrying for no
> reason, but our clinic professor is building up interviewing like it's
> the most important thing in the world, so I'm getting nervous.
>
> Thanks everyone,
>
> Julie
>
>
> --
> Julie A. Orozco
> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>


-- 
He/Him


From marshall at blindlawyers.org  Mon Sep  4 11:53:45 2023
From: marshall at blindlawyers.org (Scott Marshall)
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 11:53:45 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Client Interviews and Search Light
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4D+j0NZ8M0MXBfb-zXtm_scMtAkKs6TuHHipUX-4eXOz+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4D+j0NZ8M0MXBfb-zXtm_scMtAkKs6TuHHipUX-4eXOz+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR10MB33385F346095F516213F6210A0E9A@DM6PR10MB3338.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Julie:
I agree with Sanho. When I was a young lawyer practicing in a large firm in the 1970s , I soon discovered how much clients appreciated good communications: listening to their concerns, returning phone calls promptly, admitting when I did not know something, and always, always  following up as promised. My initial interactions with clients were usually over the telephone, and they did not know that I was blind until we actually met. I looked like a teenage kid at the time, so I had to dress for success, and thankfully, the firm's reputation helped, I think, smooth over any doubts about my competence. Like Sanho, if a "how would you handle" question     arose, I responded fully. I think most of the naysayers were other lawyers. 
Although my firm had no problem with my conducting client interviews, depositions, court appearances, and even appellate arguments which were normally not done at the associate level, they were petrified about my appearing before a jury. They felt that a blind lawyer before a jury would be perceived as taking an undue advantage in a relatively small legal community. This attitude drove me crazy as you can imagine, and I was never able to talk them out of it. Remember this was about 40 years ago. I learned a lot in private practice.
Subsequently, I moved to Washington DC and began my lobbying career in the nonprofit world. 

Best of luck to you.

Scott



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Wed Sep  6 17:06:47 2023
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 17:06:47 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] =?windows-1252?q?Resume_Request=3A_Supervisory_Genera?=
 =?windows-1252?q?l_Attorney_=28Chief_Attorney=29_Position_=96_U=2ES=2E_De?=
 =?windows-1252?q?partment_of_Education=2C_Office_for_Civil_Rights_Boston?=
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR09MB7707B3BDBFAA48F3D2D7FDC8E0EFA@PH0PR09MB7707.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <PH0PR09MB7707351DB5B79334A99A8D43E0EFA@PH0PR09MB7707.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
 <PH0PR09MB7707B3BDBFAA48F3D2D7FDC8E0EFA@PH0PR09MB7707.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SA9PR09MB5454509992BBE46D22492F44F9EFA@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>


The U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights (OCR) is currently soliciting resumes to fill a Supervisory General Attorney (Chief Attorney) position within the Boston Regional Office.

OCR accepts resumes from eligible individuals who may be considered for a noncompetitive appointment to an Attorney position via the following excepted hiring authorities: 1) Schedule A Persons with Disabilities appointments (5 C.F.R. § 213.3102(u)); 2) Veterans’ Recruitment Appointments; 3) Excepted Hiring Authority for Attorneys (5 C.F.R. § 213.3102(d)); and 4) Former Peace Corps and AmeriCorps Appointees (22 U.S.C. § 2506), respectively.

OCR’s Supervisory General Attorney (Chief Attorney), GS-905-15, is a Telework-Eligible position.  Applicants must live within 35 miles of any of OCR’s twelve regional offices (Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., Atlanta, Cleveland, Chicago, Kansas City, Dallas, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco).  The individual selected to fill the position can reside in any of the twelve regional office areas and will be required to work two days per week from the regional office located in the area in which the individual resides.

The Supervisory General Attorney (Chief Attorney) is responsible for providing legal advice, leadership, and guidance for the civil rights compliance and enforcement program at a regional office for a geographic region composed of one or more states.

The grade level qualifications for OCR attorney positions are outlined in the attachment. Interested and qualified applicants should submit their resume and optional cover letter to ocrjobs at ed.gov<mailto:ocrjobs at ed.gov> for this position by September 16th, 2023.

Interested persons should indicate the position title and OCR regional enforcement office (Boston) for which they want to be considered, and their veteran’s status, if applicable, within the optional cover letter or body of the email.

OCR will keep resumes on file for 365 days following the date of receipt. Applicants will be contacted to confirm their continued interest as vacancies occur. If contacted for an interview, a writing sample, official transcript, and a list of references will be required during later stages in the selection process.

Please note that OCRJobs at ed.gov<mailto:OCRJobs at ed.gov> is not staffed to respond to questions.

Nichelle Boone
Human Resources Team, Supervisor
Resource Management Group (RMG)
U.S. Department of Education
Office for Civil Rights
Nichelle.Boone at ed.gov<mailto:Nichelle.Boone at ed.gov>

T.E.A.M – Together Everyone Achieves More

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From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Wed Sep  6 21:35:35 2023
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 21:35:35 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] WEB AND APP ADA LAWSUITS: 6 TRENDS SO FAR IN 2023 -
 UsableNet - June 28, 2023
In-Reply-To: <SA1PR09MB115635DCD913ED8C2C9986B5E95EFA@SA1PR09MB11563.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA1PR09MB115635DCD913ED8C2C9986B5E95EFA@SA1PR09MB11563.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SA9PR09MB54547479FA32331006405221F9EFA@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>


https://blog.usablenet.com/web-and-app-ada-lawsuits-6-trends-so-far-in-2023
WEB AND APP ADA LAWSUITS: 6 TRENDS SO FAR IN 2023
By Jason Taylor
UsableNet
June 28, 2023

What are the latest trends in digital accessibility lawsuits in the United States in the first half of 2023? Here is your first look at our midyear findings on digital accessibility lawsuits.
If you manage your company's website or accessibility program, we hope this data is valuable. We release our biannual accessibility lawsuit reports to help you understand your risk of digital accessibility lawsuits, advocate for app and web accessibility with your internal stakeholders, and plan your company's digital accessibility initiatives.
Keep reading for an analysis of findings and emerging trends in litigation.

1. Digital Accessibility Lawsuits are rising.

Lawsuits filed in federal court are increasing in Florida, and cases in state court are growing in New York. In Florida, federally filled suits rose to 228 cases, surpassing the first half of 2022 (160 cases). This surge indicates the continued importance of prioritizing digital accessibility if your website serves customers in Florida.

ADA digital accessibility lawsuits filed in federal court in New York increasingly require detailed filings. So, in 2023, some plaintiff law firms moved their website accessibility lawsuits to state courts in New York. Lawsuit filings in New York State court allege violations of the New York State Human Rights Law (NYSHRL), the New York City Human Rights Law (NYCHRL), and the New York State Civil Rights Law (NYSCRL).

2. There are more plaintiff firms.

Three new plaintiff law firms have emerged in the top ten list for ADA lawsuits in the first half of 2023. These firms include the Law Office of Noor Saab, Nye, Stirling, Hale, Miller & Sweet LLP, and Adams & Associates, PA. This new presence underscores the increasing engagement of law firms in digital accessibility claims.
3. Shifting Industries: Education Takes the 3rd spot.
Education has climbed to third among industries facing ADA lawsuits, compared to its eighth-place ranking in 2022. This trend highlights the growing scrutiny of educational institutions' digital accessibility efforts and the need for heightened compliance measures within this sector.

Food Service holds the number two spot. The increase in lawsuits in Florida may have contributed to the food service as the number two most targeted industry because lawsuits in Florida are against the food service at a higher rate (33%) than in the rest of the country (7%).
E-commerce is in the top place, with 84% of lawsuits. Since UsableNet began tracking digital accessibility lawsuits in 2018, e-commerce businesses have received more suits than other industries. At midyear last year, e-commerce companies had 79% of digital accessibility lawsuits.

4. Smaller companies are the Primary Targets.

In the first half of 2023, smaller companies with annual revenue equal to less than $25 million experienced an increase in lawsuits, accounting for 77% of the cases. This figure is slightly higher than the 73% of lawsuits recorded in 2022, emphasizing the significance of digital accessibility compliance for businesses of all sizes.

5. Large eCommerce Companies are under Scrutiny.

A notable 13% (65 companies) of the top 500 eCommerce companies have already faced ADA lawsuits in the first half of 2023, compared to 10% (50 companies) during the same period in 2022. This increase highlights the importance of prioritizing digital accessibility within the eCommerce industry to mitigate legal risks.

6. Accessibility widgets are not reducing lawsuits.

The number of lawsuits against companies using accessibility widgets increased slightly in 2023. We found 414 suits this year, compared to 336 in the first half of 2022 and 316 in the first half of 2021. This trend suggests that accessibility widgets may not provide sufficient protection against litigation.

Stay informed about lawsuits & Get Proactive about Digital Accessibility
The landscape of web and app lawsuits during the first half of 2023 shows trends businesses can consider when addressing digital accessibility.
Education's rise in suits, the prominence of smaller companies as targets, and the impact of widget usage underscore the importance of proactive accessibility efforts. Staying informed about these trends will help make strategic decisions and implement effective accessibility measures to ensure compliance and mitigate legal risks.

Could your website be putting you at risk for a digital accessibility lawsuit? Accessibility is not a one-size-fits-all. You need the right solution for your business. Find your best option for ADA compliance based on your resources, budget, and timeline with our free assessment.

Note: Stay tuned for our upcoming full report at the end of the year, which will provide a comprehensive analysis of ADA web and app lawsuits across the USA.



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Wed Sep  6 21:43:45 2023
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 21:43:45 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] New DOJ Web Accessibility Regulation is a Disaster -
 Converge Accessibility - August 3, 2023
In-Reply-To: <SA1PR09MB1156399B4FA5C0B53B1E8ABDD95EFA@SA1PR09MB11563.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA1PR09MB1156399B4FA5C0B53B1E8ABDD95EFA@SA1PR09MB11563.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SA9PR09MB5454AFB8B76B608BF61511F3F9EFA@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>


https://convergeaccessibility.com/2023/08/03/new-doj-web-accessibility-regulation-is-a-disaster/

New DOJ Web Accessibility Regulation is a Disaster
By Ken Nakata
Converge Accessibility
August 3, 2023

Life seems so much brighter a week ago when the Disability Rights Section (DRS) at the Department of Justice (DOJ) sent their new web accessibility regulation to the Federal Register. At the time, Associate Attorney General Vanita Gupta, who leads the Civil Rights Division, said, "The issuance of this proposed rule concerning web and mobile app accessibility is a momentous occasion. It is hard to overstate the importance of this rulemaking to the tens of millions of people with disabilities in this country."
Today is such a different time. I'll keep this post short and to the point. The new Title II rule (which DRS put on its website a day before it was supposed to be published) is an absolute disaster. It puts unmanageable burdens on state and local governments. Strangely, it also manages to pull the rug from under the feet of the disability community. And it is written in a way that makes it clear that the only beneficiaries of the rule are consultants and drive-by plaintiffs. Even finding the NPRM is difficult. In fact, I'd say the only thing that DRS got right was writing a great FAQ page that outlines how they managed to bungle things up.
The NPRM Hurts State and Local Governments
The proposed NPRM requires that state and local governments make all of their websites and mobile apps comply with the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.1 A/AA unless they can demonstrate that doing so would impose either an undue burden or fundamental alteration.
Are they crazy? At Converge, we currently work with a reasonably large city that has over 250 website domains that it manages. In total, they likely have over a quarter of a million web pages that they use to offer information and services to their residents. Expecting that city to either remove web pages (which ultimately hurts all residents) or make them fully comply with WCAG is impractical.
Nor is making every page accessible necessary. The basis for requiring web pages to be accessible is the ADA's effective communication requirement. The Department of Justice has never said that "effective" communications always means "perfect" or "immediate" communication; instead, "effective communication" is simply that-- communication that is "effective." So if a deaf patient needs a sign language interpreter at an upcoming doctor's visit, the doctor can require patients to provide a week's notice to book a sign language interpreter.
The approach taken by DOJ is an impractical "all or nothing" approach that serves no one. For instance, every city or local government has web content that is important but not frequently accessed. Because DOJ's regulation requires every page to comply with WCAG, this means that either the City will go bankrupt making every page accessible OR they will claim that it is an undue burden and make none of their web pages accessible. How does that help anyone?
A far better approach is the (albeit controversial) approach taken by California in AB 1757. This approach makes compliance with WCAG 2.1 a presumption of accessibility and not a requirement for accessibility. This approach gives organizations a strong incentive to comply with WCAG 2.1, but still allows them to take other approaches to provide an equally effective means of accessing their goods and services. I think that approach is also more consistent with the guidance that DOJ has been providing for years.
The NPRM Hurts People with Disabilities
While the NPRM does a great job at hurting state and local governments, it somehow also manages to do a great job at hurting people with disabilities. I already talked about how the NPRM's "all or nothing" approach encourages state and local governments to throw up their arms, assert that making their entire website WCAG-compliant constitutes an undue burden, fix nothing, and leave people with disabilities out in the cold. The really outrageous section of the NPRM, however, is how it carves out huge exceptions for digital content that is important for people with disabilities. Let's take a look at those exceptions-- and their potential impact.
Archived Web Content. This might not seem compelling but remember that, once it is carved out, it is permanently carved out. This means that archived content never needs to be made accessible. So blind historians or students doing research through a City's archives will never be able to access archived web content.
Preexisting Conventional Electronic Documents. This exception is like "archived web content," only broader. The only thing it gets right is that it does not exempt, "documents [that] are currently used by members of the public to apply for, gain access to, or participate in a public entity's services, programs, or activities."
Content Posted by Third Parties. This is a tough one for state and local governments and this exception doesn't bother me.
Linked Third Party Content. This exception also makes sense. DOJ also does the right thing and notes that this exception does not apply if that third party content is used to deliver programs, services, or activities for the state or local government.
Password-Protected Public School Content. This exception is remarkable because it clearly undermines the rights of students with disabilities. I understand how educational institutions struggle to make course content accessible to students, but to carve out such a huge exception is unacceptable. The NPRM does exclude course content where the school is given advance notice that a student with a disability will enroll in a course. That exclusion, however, only betrays how out-of-touch DOJ is with education because college students typically add and drop courses constantly. If you are a student with a disability, don't expect to have that luxury anymore if you want accessible course materials.
Individualized Password-Protected Documents. Really? So my state retirement statements or patient records don't have to be sent to me in an accessible format? In its FAQ's, DOJ notes that the effective communication requirement still applies and that "these documents would generally still need to be provided in an accessible format if a person with a disability requests them." Unfortunately, that's a nuance that isn't clear from the NPRM and will surely be lost on state and local governments.
The NPRM Only Benefits the Wrong People
There are only two groups of people that I see benefitting from this proposed regulation.
Large Web Accessibility Consultants. One group that will love this proposed regulation is large web consulting companies that can cater to the thousands of state and local governments who suddenly need to make their entire sites comply with WCAG. These companies have armies of manual testers and automated testing solutions that can crawl and scan thousands or millions of web pages. From experience, I also know that some of them charge hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from their clients-- yet hardly make a dent in the accessibility of their clients' websites.
Serial Plaintiffs. I've always said that serial plaintiffs thrive where the law is vague. They also thrive where defendants face a new or impossible-to-meet burden. There is simply no way that every state and local government will be able to make every web page comply with WCAG 2.1 A/AA-- and the serial plaintiffs know it and will be more than happy to swoop in once the final regulation goes into effect.
What We Need to Do
The answer is simple: kill this regulation.
All of us-- the disability community, state and local governments, and web accessibility experts and advocates-- need to do everything in our power to make sure that this regulation never gets published. The unfortunate reality is that the regulation is beyond "saving" because DOJ painted themselves in a corner (the limited questions that they asked means that they DOJ can only make minimal changes to the existing NPRM text). Instead, we should all advocate for DOJ to pull the current NPRM and just start again.
Updates
(August 4, 2023) Right on schedule, the official draft of the NPRM was published in the Federal Register. For those of you who prefer the old-fashioned look of the paper version (or who want an "offline" version), here's the link to the PDF version of the NPRM.
Disclaimer
Nothing in this post should be interpreted as legal advice or as forming an attorney-client relationship. It is offered for educational purposes only. You should always contact a qualified attorney in your area to discuss your legal rights and responsibilities.



From maxs71055 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  8 09:28:59 2023
From: maxs71055 at gmail.com (Max Smith)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 02:28:59 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <005501d9de9f$1a1217e0$4e3647a0$@gmail.com>
References: <005501d9de9f$1a1217e0$4e3647a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38B8C0DE-7013-497B-B5A1-A56643EE821D@gmail.com>

I believe this practice is unethical because the individuals they employ do not have any intention of making a purchase; instead, their sole aim is to generate profit for themselves and the law firm by threatening to file lawsuits against businesses. This forces businesses into a situation where they can either choose to pay the law firm a significantly smaller amount to make the threat go away, as opposed to the potentially higher costs they would incur if they were to be sued by the law firm.


> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:46 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Testing to identify potential civil rights violation is not new. This is a practice regularly employed in housing discrimination investigations. As previously suggested, this is definitely a good topic for a law school paper but as a practical matter, I don't see anything unethical about this. It is one of the investigative tactics that can be used to uncover violations.
> 
> 
> Rod,
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
> Sent: Sunday, September 3, 2023 2:58 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
> 
> Max, 
> 
> Is it your belief that law firms shouldn't be allowed to collect attorneys' fees in cases where they had a blind tester test a website to begin with? 
> 
> Sanho 
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Just for the sake of the argument, why would this be unethical, 
>> assuming the websites in question really are inaccessible, contrary to 
>> the law?
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>> Ger
>> 
>>>> On 9/3/23, Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello Dennis,
>>> I am a current law student with a strong interest in web 
>>> accessibility. I am reaching out because I believe it is highly 
>>> unethical for these law firms to engage in such practices.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:27 AM, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw 
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> It sounds like a topic for a final law school paper
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Please advise as you like.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike M.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike mcglashon
>>>> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
>>>> Ph: 618 783 9331
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dennis 
>>>> Clark via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:18 PM
>>>> To: Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Dennis Clark <dennis at dgclark.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Max,
>>>> 
>>>> Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can 
>>>> better provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because 
>>>> your question as presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads 
>>>> like a possible law school exam question.
>>>> 
>>>> All the best,
>>>> 
>>>> Dennis
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have 
>>>>> been
>>>> brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled 
>>>> individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are 
>>>> subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or 
>>>> companies that are considered inaccessible. The testers are 
>>>> compensated when the law firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially, 
>>>> this could be perceived as a form of extortion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly 
>>>>> appreciate
>>>> the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgcl
>>>>> ark
>>>>> .net
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglas
>>>> hon%40co
>>>> mcast.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blind247365%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%
>>> 40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail
>> .com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rodalcidonis%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blind247365%40gmail.com

From carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com  Fri Sep  8 12:05:55 2023
From: carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com (Kathryn Carroll)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 12:05:55 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] BlindLaw Digest, Vol 232, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <mailman.103.1694174403.4825.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.103.1694174403.4825.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <MW4P223MB068131A686551FFCE7B7CAFFA9EDA@MW4P223MB0681.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I share Rod’s view, and would have asked the same question as Ger.

Kathryn

Kathryn Carroll, Esq.
________________________________
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> on behalf of blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org <blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 8:00:03 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: BlindLaw Digest, Vol 232, Issue 6

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than "Re: Contents of BlindLaw digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources (Max Smith)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 02:28:59 -0700
From: Max Smith <maxs71055 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
Message-ID: <38B8C0DE-7013-497B-B5A1-A56643EE821D at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

I believe this practice is unethical because the individuals they employ do not have any intention of making a purchase; instead, their sole aim is to generate profit for themselves and the law firm by threatening to file lawsuits against businesses. This forces businesses into a situation where they can either choose to pay the law firm a significantly smaller amount to make the threat go away, as opposed to the potentially higher costs they would incur if they were to be sued by the law firm.


> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:46 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> ?Testing to identify potential civil rights violation is not new. This is a practice regularly employed in housing discrimination investigations. As previously suggested, this is definitely a good topic for a law school paper but as a practical matter, I don't see anything unethical about this. It is one of the investigative tactics that can be used to uncover violations.
>
>
> Rod,
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
> Sent: Sunday, September 3, 2023 2:58 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>
> Max,
>
> Is it your belief that law firms shouldn't be allowed to collect attorneys' fees in cases where they had a blind tester test a website to begin with?
>
> Sanho
>
>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?Just for the sake of the argument, why would this be unethical,
>> assuming the websites in question really are inaccessible, contrary to
>> the law?
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Ger
>>
>>>> On 9/3/23, Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello Dennis,
>>> I am a current law student with a strong interest in web
>>> accessibility. I am reaching out because I believe it is highly
>>> unethical for these law firms to engage in such practices.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:27 AM, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?It sounds like a topic for a final law school paper
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please advise as you like.
>>>>
>>>> Mike M.
>>>>
>>>> Mike mcglashon
>>>> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
>>>> Ph: 618 783 9331
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dennis
>>>> Clark via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:18 PM
>>>> To: Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Dennis Clark <dennis at dgclark.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>>>
>>>> Hello Max,
>>>>
>>>> Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can
>>>> better provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because
>>>> your question as presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads
>>>> like a possible law school exam question.
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have
>>>>> been
>>>> brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled
>>>> individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are
>>>> subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or
>>>> companies that are considered inaccessible. The testers are
>>>> compensated when the law firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially,
>>>> this could be perceived as a form of extortion.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly
>>>>> appreciate
>>>> the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennis%40dgcl
>>>>> ark
>>>>> .net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/michael.mcglas
>>>> hon%40co
>>>> mcast.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blind247365%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%
>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail
>> .com
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

End of BlindLaw Digest, Vol 232, Issue 6
****************************************

From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Sep  8 18:26:59 2023
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie A. Orozco)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 14:26:59 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Inaccessibility and Confidentiality
Message-ID: <CAHox4DJa5SNDBbMutX6hqx4OHBXTrOkZt+8E88gzKk2HXB5pmw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

Thank you for all of your advice so far. Clinic is going well, and I
am learning plenty.

One thing is coming up sooner than I thought it would be a problem. I
am encountering inaccessible documents, of course, but all my tricks
for OCR are failing me. I am not yet sure why in this case, but my
first guess is that there is handwriting on this particular document.
No matter what I do, I can't get anything from jibberish from Jaws
when I try to read it.

This is client info, so I can't just send it to someone else, call
AIRA, or even get another blind person to take a crack at it. I have a
clinic partner, but I hate having to ask her for every little thing,
especially since this is supposed to be the assignment I agreed to do
myself. I'm sure some of you have to deal with this on the job. What
do you do when you have to maintain confidentiality and encounter
inaccessible client documents? In addition, what accommodations do you
ask for in these situations? Is a reader my best and only option? I
know a human reader could sign a form stating that they will keep info
confidential, and that's what I did in the past when I worked in a
similar position at my university.

Thank you for any advice,

Julie

-- 
Julie A. Orozco
MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
Law, JD Candidate 2023


From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  8 18:37:23 2023
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 14:37:23 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Inaccessibility and Confidentiality
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJa5SNDBbMutX6hqx4OHBXTrOkZt+8E88gzKk2HXB5pmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJa5SNDBbMutX6hqx4OHBXTrOkZt+8E88gzKk2HXB5pmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18F55FD8-4BE9-45B8-A921-74E88F06E2C9@yahoo.com>

Julie,
In situations like this, I would ask a paralegal or legal assistant to help. You may not have someone in that exact role in the clinic, but the law school needs to provide a human reader, other than your clinic partner, to enable you to do the work. A few years ago, I explored using Aira for dealing with documents containing handwriting,but it went nowhere due to confidentiality concerns which the company failed to address in a serious way. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2023, at 2:28 PM, Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thank you for all of your advice so far. Clinic is going well, and I
> am learning plenty.
> 
> One thing is coming up sooner than I thought it would be a problem. I
> am encountering inaccessible documents, of course, but all my tricks
> for OCR are failing me. I am not yet sure why in this case, but my
> first guess is that there is handwriting on this particular document.
> No matter what I do, I can't get anything from jibberish from Jaws
> when I try to read it.
> 
> This is client info, so I can't just send it to someone else, call
> AIRA, or even get another blind person to take a crack at it. I have a
> clinic partner, but I hate having to ask her for every little thing,
> especially since this is supposed to be the assignment I agreed to do
> myself. I'm sure some of you have to deal with this on the job. What
> do you do when you have to maintain confidentiality and encounter
> inaccessible client documents? In addition, what accommodations do you
> ask for in these situations? Is a reader my best and only option? I
> know a human reader could sign a form stating that they will keep info
> confidential, and that's what I did in the past when I worked in a
> similar position at my university.
> 
> Thank you for any advice,
> 
> Julie
> 
> -- 
> Julie A. Orozco
> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
> Law, JD Candidate 2023
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com



From laurenbishop96 at icloud.com  Fri Sep  8 19:09:01 2023
From: laurenbishop96 at icloud.com (Lauren Bishop)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 15:09:01 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Inaccessibility and Confidentiality
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJa5SNDBbMutX6hqx4OHBXTrOkZt+8E88gzKk2HXB5pmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJa5SNDBbMutX6hqx4OHBXTrOkZt+8E88gzKk2HXB5pmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C315ABE6-953C-4ADD-A22F-3CB4C2AA9031@icloud.com>

Hi Julie,
Unfortunately, I think your only option is going to be in listing for some help with someone who can read it. I would definitely ask for a reader. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2023, at 2:29 PM, Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thank you for all of your advice so far. Clinic is going well, and I
> am learning plenty.
> 
> One thing is coming up sooner than I thought it would be a problem. I
> am encountering inaccessible documents, of course, but all my tricks
> for OCR are failing me. I am not yet sure why in this case, but my
> first guess is that there is handwriting on this particular document.
> No matter what I do, I can't get anything from jibberish from Jaws
> when I try to read it.
> 
> This is client info, so I can't just send it to someone else, call
> AIRA, or even get another blind person to take a crack at it. I have a
> clinic partner, but I hate having to ask her for every little thing,
> especially since this is supposed to be the assignment I agreed to do
> myself. I'm sure some of you have to deal with this on the job. What
> do you do when you have to maintain confidentiality and encounter
> inaccessible client documents? In addition, what accommodations do you
> ask for in these situations? Is a reader my best and only option? I
> know a human reader could sign a form stating that they will keep info
> confidential, and that's what I did in the past when I worked in a
> similar position at my university.
> 
> Thank you for any advice,
> 
> Julie
> 
> -- 
> Julie A. Orozco
> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
> Law, JD Candidate 2023
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From sanho817 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  8 19:26:36 2023
From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 15:26:36 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Inaccessibility and Confidentiality
In-Reply-To: <18F55FD8-4BE9-45B8-A921-74E88F06E2C9@yahoo.com>
References: <CAHox4DJa5SNDBbMutX6hqx4OHBXTrOkZt+8E88gzKk2HXB5pmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <18F55FD8-4BE9-45B8-A921-74E88F06E2C9@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAL6jpeyRmmpzvn5fBApUzY=pn77=zmyL=1KFkEB+ej6qp+MhHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Julie:

A part-time reader seems necessary for exactly this reason. I also use
them to give a once-over to any documents I'm put in front of a judge.
If the issue's caused by an internal procedure, I'd look into a change
in that procedure so I could independently access the material. A
change in internal procedure is irrelevant if the issue is with
external records such as police reports, medical histories, or certain
documents from clients.

Warmth,
Sanho

On 9/8/23, James Fetter via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Julie,
> In situations like this, I would ask a paralegal or legal assistant to help.
> You may not have someone in that exact role in the clinic, but the law
> school needs to provide a human reader, other than your clinic partner, to
> enable you to do the work. A few years ago, I explored using Aira for
> dealing with documents containing handwriting,but it went nowhere due to
> confidentiality concerns which the company failed to address in a serious
> way.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 8, 2023, at 2:28 PM, Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Thank you for all of your advice so far. Clinic is going well, and I
>> am learning plenty.
>>
>> One thing is coming up sooner than I thought it would be a problem. I
>> am encountering inaccessible documents, of course, but all my tricks
>> for OCR are failing me. I am not yet sure why in this case, but my
>> first guess is that there is handwriting on this particular document.
>> No matter what I do, I can't get anything from jibberish from Jaws
>> when I try to read it.
>>
>> This is client info, so I can't just send it to someone else, call
>> AIRA, or even get another blind person to take a crack at it. I have a
>> clinic partner, but I hate having to ask her for every little thing,
>> especially since this is supposed to be the assignment I agreed to do
>> myself. I'm sure some of you have to deal with this on the job. What
>> do you do when you have to maintain confidentiality and encounter
>> inaccessible client documents? In addition, what accommodations do you
>> ask for in these situations? Is a reader my best and only option? I
>> know a human reader could sign a form stating that they will keep info
>> confidential, and that's what I did in the past when I worked in a
>> similar position at my university.
>>
>> Thank you for any advice,
>>
>> Julie
>>
>> --
>> Julie A. Orozco
>> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
>> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
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>


-- 
He/Him


From Starry_sky at live.com  Fri Sep  8 20:09:20 2023
From: Starry_sky at live.com (S)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:09:20 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <mailman.103.1694174403.4825.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.103.1694174403.4825.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <CO1PR05MB7976C144F929810FC455981782EDA@CO1PR05MB7976.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Max, you listed two choices for the business - negotiate a settlement or 
go to court.  But you missed the most obvious choice the business has - 
make their facilities, websites, apps, etc. accessible so that people 
with disabilities have equal access.  That negates the lawsuit.  These 
laws have existed for decades.  It shouldn't have to take a lawsuit but 
how many businesses would correct their ADA violations without one?  The 
plaintiff may or may not "intend to purchase" but an inaccessible 
situation means others with a similar disability, who do intend to 
purchase, can't purchase either.  This opportunity for a lawsuit was 
created by the violator, not the law firm.

> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 02:28:59 -0700
> From: Max Smith <maxs71055 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>
>
> I believe this practice is unethical because the individuals they employ do not have any intention of making a purchase; instead, their sole aim is to generate profit for themselves and the law firm by threatening to file lawsuits against businesses. This forces businesses into a situation where they can either choose to pay the law firm a significantly smaller amount to make the threat go away, as opposed to the potentially higher costs they would incur if they were to be sued by the law firm.
>
>
>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:46 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?Testing to identify potential civil rights violation is not new. This is a practice regularly employed in housing discrimination investigations. As previously suggested, this is definitely a good topic for a law school paper but as a practical matter, I don't see anything unethical about this. It is one of the investigative tactics that can be used to uncover violations.
>>
>>
>> Rod,
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Sunday, September 3, 2023 2:58 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>
>> Max,
>>
>> Is it your belief that law firms shouldn't be allowed to collect attorneys' fees in cases where they had a blind tester test a website to begin with?
>>
>> Sanho
>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Just for the sake of the argument, why would this be unethical,
>>> assuming the websites in question really are inaccessible, contrary to
>>> the law?
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Ger
>>>
>>>>> On 9/3/23, Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hello Dennis,
>>>> I am a current law student with a strong interest in web
>>>> accessibility. I am reaching out because I believe it is highly
>>>> unethical for these law firms to engage in such practices.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:27 AM, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?It sounds like a topic for a final law school paper
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please advise as you like.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike M.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike mcglashon
>>>>> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
>>>>> Ph: 618 783 9331
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dennis
>>>>> Clark via BlindLaw
>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:18 PM
>>>>> To: Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Dennis Clark <dennis at dgclark.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Max,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can
>>>>> better provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because
>>>>> your question as presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads
>>>>> like a possible law school exam question.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have
>>>>>> been
>>>>> brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled
>>>>> individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are
>>>>> subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or
>>>>> companies that are considered inaccessible. The testers are
>>>>> compensated when the law firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially,
>>>>> this could be perceived as a form of extortion.
>>>>>> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly
>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>> the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>>>>>



From rodalcidonis at gmail.com  Fri Sep  8 20:25:49 2023
From: rodalcidonis at gmail.com (rodalcidonis at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:25:49 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Inaccessibility and Confidentiality
In-Reply-To: <CAL6jpeyRmmpzvn5fBApUzY=pn77=zmyL=1KFkEB+ej6qp+MhHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJa5SNDBbMutX6hqx4OHBXTrOkZt+8E88gzKk2HXB5pmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <18F55FD8-4BE9-45B8-A921-74E88F06E2C9@yahoo.com>
 <CAL6jpeyRmmpzvn5fBApUzY=pn77=zmyL=1KFkEB+ej6qp+MhHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007e01d9e292$a7f27e50$f7d77af0$@gmail.com>

Julie:

A clinical experience needs to be as real as the real thing. This is clearly an instance where the clinic should be providing you with a human reader to assist. Indeed, you should not be asking your partner as this is not a class assignment but a program in which the learning should be mostly individualized.

Start by having a conversation along those lines with your clinic professor and explore making a formal request for reasonable accommodations. Otherwise, I'm afraid your clinical experience will not be providing you with the real-world experience that such a program should, as a form of preparation to help you succeed in the practice of law after law school.

Good luck!



Rod Alcidonis, Esq.


 


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 3:27 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Inaccessibility and Confidentiality

Julie:

A part-time reader seems necessary for exactly this reason. I also use them to give a once-over to any documents I'm put in front of a judge.
If the issue's caused by an internal procedure, I'd look into a change in that procedure so I could independently access the material. A change in internal procedure is irrelevant if the issue is with external records such as police reports, medical histories, or certain documents from clients.

Warmth,
Sanho

On 9/8/23, James Fetter via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Julie,
> In situations like this, I would ask a paralegal or legal assistant to help.
> You may not have someone in that exact role in the clinic, but the law 
> school needs to provide a human reader, other than your clinic 
> partner, to enable you to do the work. A few years ago, I explored 
> using Aira for dealing with documents containing handwriting,but it 
> went nowhere due to confidentiality concerns which the company failed 
> to address in a serious way.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 8, 2023, at 2:28 PM, Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw 
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Thank you for all of your advice so far. Clinic is going well, and I 
>> am learning plenty.
>>
>> One thing is coming up sooner than I thought it would be a problem. I 
>> am encountering inaccessible documents, of course, but all my tricks 
>> for OCR are failing me. I am not yet sure why in this case, but my 
>> first guess is that there is handwriting on this particular document.
>> No matter what I do, I can't get anything from jibberish from Jaws 
>> when I try to read it.
>>
>> This is client info, so I can't just send it to someone else, call 
>> AIRA, or even get another blind person to take a crack at it. I have 
>> a clinic partner, but I hate having to ask her for every little 
>> thing, especially since this is supposed to be the assignment I 
>> agreed to do myself. I'm sure some of you have to deal with this on 
>> the job. What do you do when you have to maintain confidentiality and 
>> encounter inaccessible client documents? In addition, what 
>> accommodations do you ask for in these situations? Is a reader my 
>> best and only option? I know a human reader could sign a form stating 
>> that they will keep info confidential, and that's what I did in the 
>> past when I worked in a similar position at my university.
>>
>> Thank you for any advice,
>>
>> Julie
>>
>> --
>> Julie A. Orozco
>> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of 
>> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yaho
>> o.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail
> .com
>


--
He/Him

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From graham.hardy at gmail.com  Sat Sep  9 02:21:50 2023
From: graham.hardy at gmail.com (Graham Hardy)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 19:21:50 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS
In-Reply-To: <bf812ad019b14dc29b43d826b3f15bf7@reedsmith.com>
References: <bf812ad019b14dc29b43d826b3f15bf7@reedsmith.com>
Message-ID: <CAB5YnkgqD6GBJ9DKPJSd5hydtjZYpruzGXrAnFPKsqSVd3LRBA@mail.gmail.com>

I see. The Alt+Windows+Arrows keystrokes are JAWS-specific so I guess
they're subject to JAWS limitations.

I should point out, if you're particularly interested in the exact
dimensions of cells spanning multiple rows or columns, that information
does come through in Excel with JAWS. If you're on a cell that is three
columns wide, JAWS will call it something like "F5:H5". I don't know of
anything else  that will do this. If the table is particularly complicated,
JAWS and Excel might give you the most precise information.

Graham

On Sep 2, 2023, at 3:38 PM, Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com> wrote:



Absolutely!



By the way, the Alt+Windows+Arrow commands speak for me, but in one
document, I get the message from JAWS that “The table is nonuniform, so you
cannot read the current column.” Oh well. I really didn’t want to hear the
entire row/column at once anyway. I want to quickly move between entries in
a particular row or column and know when I’m passing by one of these
multi-cell entries. I may try viewing it as a webpage.



And yes, JAWS is great in general, but these hiccups can be frustrating.





*Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)*

*Counsel*

D: +1 202-414-9343

Preferred pronouns: she/her

amatney at reedsmith.com



Bio <https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard
<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|
E-Mail| <%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com <http://www.reedsmith.com/>


1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000

Washington, DC 20005



ReedSmith



*From:* graham.hardy at gmail.com <graham.hardy at gmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, September 1, 2023 5:16 PM
*To:* Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com>; 'Blind Law Mailing List' <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
*Subject:* RE: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS



EXTERNAL E-MAIL - From graham.hardy at gmail.com



I used to be at a firm with lots of customisations that caused crashes,
too. I even remember using the prompt creator to try and re-label dialog
controls only to discover that it acted like it was working but it never
actually changed the labels in those add-ons. Let’s just say there are
countless edge cases in JAWS that aren’t well tested. JAWS is great, but it
just wasn’t designed by lawyers, I think we can agree on that!







External Signed

*From:* Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com>
*Sent:* Friday, September 1, 2023 2:04 PM
*To:* Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
*Cc:* graham.hardy at gmail.com
*Subject:* RE: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS



Thanks, Graham, some good ideas here.



I find that sometimes using tab and shift+tab causes JAWS to crash. I think
this has to do with some integrations that my firm has with Office. I
generally have to restart JAWS manually when this occurs. But I do
appreciate you sending this list of suggestions. I might be able to have a
review copy open in one window and another editable copy open elsewhere.



Best,



Angie





*Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)*

*Counsel*

D: +1 202-414-9343

Preferred pronouns: she/her

amatney at reedsmith.com



Bio <https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard
<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|
E-Mail| <%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com <http://www.reedsmith.com/>


1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000

Washington, DC 20005



ReedSmith



*From:* BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> *On Behalf Of *Graham Hardy
via BlindLaw
*Sent:* Friday, September 1, 2023 4:51 PM
*To:* 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
*Cc:* graham.hardy at gmail.com
*Subject:* Re: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS



EXTERNAL E-MAIL - From blindlaw at nfbnet.org

There are a couple of commands I use to navigate tables, some of which are
more efficient than others. I've been known to copy a table from Word and
paste it in Excel. When all else fails, I sometimes get a web page preview
by invoking the WebPagePreview command from within the macro/command
launcher invoked with Alt+F8. This brings up a page in your default web
browser from which you can of course view, but not edit, the table, enough
to get acquainted with it.

* Tab and Shift+Tab move from one cell to the next. This sometimes does
better in non-uniform tables but is a bit slow. It also adds a row if you
press it at the bottom, which can be undone if it's a mistake.

* Ctrl+Up and Ctrl+Down similarly move among cells and among paragraphs
within each. Sometimes this is better. Other times it gets stuck in a
non-uniform row.

* Alt+Windows+arrow keys are JAWS commands that are supposed to move to the
next or previous row or column and read the entire row or column. This is
supposed to allow you to get an entire row read at once with each press of
Alt+Windows+Down. This used to be the best way for dealing with non-uniform
rows but recently ithas stopped speaking. I've been meaning to call
technical support but haven't gotten around to it.

Also, if headings are properly tagged, you can navigate to them with
regular heading commands in the JAWSKey+Z layer.



External Signed

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Matney, Angela R.
via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:34 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Matney, Angela R. <AMatney at reedsmith.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Navigating non-uniform tables in Word with JAWS

Hello everyone,

I need to edit and review Word documents that contain tables with
non-uniform layouts. For example, most rows of a table in the document I’m
currently working on contain three columns. But some rows are used as
headings, and the heading spans all three columns, though it’s a single
cell in the table. The problem is that if I use control-alt-down to
navigate to the next row, JAWS will skip over these “heading” rows unless I
am in the first column. This is somewhat annoying, as the first column
basically contains nothing but numbers, and I would prefer to “skim” the
table by staying on the second column, which contains the substantive
entries. But I would like JAWS to announce the headings and not simply skip
to the next row containing three columns.

I’ve also experienced this with tables where the columns do not have the
same number of rows. (And, in one mind-altering instance, with a table that
had both of these going on!)

I’ve searched (OK, maybe it was a fairly cursory search…) for JAWS settings
that might impact this behavior, but I haven’t yet found anything. Does
anyone have any suggestions?

Angie (AKA Vexed in Virginia)


Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>

Bio<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard<
https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard
>|E-Mail|<mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com <%20amatney at reedsmith.com>
>ReedSmith.com<http://www.reedsmith.com/>

1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith




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From al.elia at aol.com  Sat Sep  9 13:57:06 2023
From: al.elia at aol.com (Al Elia)
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2023 09:57:06 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
In-Reply-To: <CO1PR05MB7976C144F929810FC455981782EDA@CO1PR05MB7976.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.103.1694174403.4825.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
 <CO1PR05MB7976C144F929810FC455981782EDA@CO1PR05MB7976.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E249BC7E-8F53-416A-83A2-6FEDE8DED86D@aol.com>

First, I am not aware of any lawsuits against law firms that specifically involve blind clients/testers. I know there have been suits involving wheelchair-using clients/testers.

Second, it is a violation of most, if not all jurisdictions’   rules of professional conduct  for a lawyer to share a fee with  a non-lawyer, including with a client. In that regard, your hypo could be considered “unethical.” However, a clever lawyer could likely  construct a settlement that avoided such  ethical pitfalls. The danger to such an attorney and client would be in going to trial, as the client would only be entitled to the jury award, and in many jurisdictions without state damages for violations, the client would not be entitled to a red cent because Title III of the ADA (which covers websites in some circuits) does not provide for damages.

Of course, if no damages are available under any causes of action, and there are no state claims or the state in question does not provide for catalyst fees, then the business/website can moot the case entirely by simply fixing the access barriers.

Take California: It offers damages under state law for ADA violations, and it offers catalyst fees, but since it is in the 9th Circuit websites are not covered by the ADA unless they have a nexus to a physical location that is covered by the ADA. So, an inaccessible web store is likely immune from suit under the ADA  in California, and likely under any suit in California unless California state courts have held that online-only websites are covered under  state law.

Take New HAmpshire: It is in the 1st Circuit, so online-only websites are covered by the ADA. NH law does provide for damages for discrimination in places of public accommodations, but presuming that state law  does not cover websites (I haven’t done case research but the state’s statutory definition appears to only cover physical locations), a website operator could moot any case alleging violations of the ADA by simply fixing their website’s access barriers. Since federal law does not provide for catalyst fees, the mooted case would not allow the plaintiff’s attorneys to petition for and collect fees.

So again, while your hypo could involve “unethical” behavior by attorneys, it is unlikely to actually happen in the real world unless the putative website operator really wants to pay off the complaining lawyer and plaintiff instead of fixing their website. The Website operator and its attorneys can also always lodge a complaint with the bar authorities if they have credible reasons to believe that the plaintiff attorneys are acting “unethically” (i.e., violating rules of professional conduct).

Yours,

/Æ



On 8 Sep 2023, at 16:09, S wrote:

> Max, you listed two choices for the business - negotiate a settlement or go to court.  But you missed the most obvious choice the business has - make their facilities, websites, apps, etc. accessible so that people with disabilities have equal access.  That negates the lawsuit.  These laws have existed for decades.  It shouldn't have to take a lawsuit but how many businesses would correct their ADA violations without one?  The plaintiff may or may not "intend to purchase" but an inaccessible situation means others with a similar disability, who do intend to purchase, can't purchase either.  This opportunity for a lawsuit was created by the violator, not the law firm.
>
>> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 02:28:59 -0700
>> From: Max Smith <maxs71055 at gmail.com>
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>
>>
>> I believe this practice is unethical because the individuals they employ do not have any intention of making a purchase; instead, their sole aim is to generate profit for themselves and the law firm by threatening to file lawsuits against businesses. This forces businesses into a situation where they can either choose to pay the law firm a significantly smaller amount to make the threat go away, as opposed to the potentially higher costs they would incur if they were to be sued by the law firm.
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:46 PM, Rod Alcidonis via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Testing to identify potential civil rights violation is not new. This is a practice regularly employed in housing discrimination investigations. As previously suggested, this is definitely a good topic for a law school paper but as a practical matter, I don't see anything unethical about this. It is one of the investigative tactics that can be used to uncover violations.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rod,
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 3, 2023 2:58 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>>
>>> Max,
>>>
>>> Is it your belief that law firms shouldn't be allowed to collect attorneys' fees in cases where they had a blind tester test a website to begin with?
>>>
>>> Sanho
>>>
>>>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Gerard Sadlier via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?Just for the sake of the argument, why would this be unethical,
>>>> assuming the websites in question really are inaccessible, contrary to
>>>> the law?
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Ger
>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/3/23, Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Dennis,
>>>>> I am a current law student with a strong interest in web
>>>>> accessibility. I am reaching out because I believe it is highly
>>>>> unethical for these law firms to engage in such practices.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 10:27 AM, MIKE MCGLASHON via BlindLaw
>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?It sounds like a topic for a final law school paper
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please advise as you like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike M.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike mcglashon
>>>>>> Email: Michael.mcglashon at comcast.net
>>>>>> Ph: 618 783 9331
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dennis
>>>>>> Clark via BlindLaw
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2023 12:18 PM
>>>>>> To: Max Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Dennis Clark <dennis at dgclark.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Accessibility law firm lawsuits resources
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Max,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you a lawyer, or a current law student? Once I know this I can
>>>>>> better provide an answer that may make sense. I'm asking because
>>>>>> your question as presented is somewhat unusual, and kind of reads
>>>>>> like a possible law school exam question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/1/2023 2:25 AM, Max Smith via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm curious if anyone is aware of any instances where charges have
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>> brought against law firms that hire visually impaired or disabled
>>>>>> individuals to identify inaccessible websites. These individuals are
>>>>>> subsequently utilized to initiate lawsuits against businesses or
>>>>>> companies that are considered inaccessible. The testers are
>>>>>> compensated when the law firm settles the lawsuits. Essentially,
>>>>>> this could be perceived as a form of extortion.
>>>>>>> If anyone has a source they could point me to, I would greatly
>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>> the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.
>>>>>>


From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov  Wed Sep 13 20:54:31 2023
From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 20:54:31 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] BlindLaw Digest, Vol 231, Issue 10
In-Reply-To: <mailman.37.1691928002.23457.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.37.1691928002.23457.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <MW4PR09MB9058861FE09F6B8856D2B0D69CF0A@MW4PR09MB9058.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>

A little late in responding, for which many apologies sent, but yes - even as a long-time (nearly 30 year) employee of my public defender office, the subject of my on-going vision loss and how the administration “puts up with it” is never ending.  As is their refusal to truly examine their biases and incorrect assumption, while at the same time refusing to implement simple work-arounds that would cost nothing to use.  I just keep reminding myself that I love my actual work, and try to ignore the rest as best I can.

Susan C L Kelly
Assistant Public Defender
Pima County Public Defender’s Office - Juvenile Division
Ofc: 520-724-2994
Fax: 520-770-4168
Text: 520-262-6137
ADA Assistant:
Norma Garcia
520-724-4778
Norma.Garcia at pima.gov
Secretary:
Andrea Espinoza
520-724-2995
Andrea.Espinoza at pima.gov

________________________________
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> on behalf of blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org <blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2023 5:00:02 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: BlindLaw Digest, Vol 231, Issue 10

CAUTION: This message and sender come from outside Pima County. If you did not expect this message, proceed with caution. Verify the sender's identity before performing any action, such as clicking on a link or opening an attachment.




Send BlindLaw mailing list submissions to
        blindlaw at nfbnet.org

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of BlindLaw digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Discrimination in the Workplace? (Thomas Dukeman)
   2. Re: Discrimination in the Workplace? (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
   3. Re: Discrimination in the Workplace? (James Fetter)
   4. Re: Discrimination in the Workplace? (Ronza Othman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 17:43:37 +0000
From: Thomas Dukeman <ThomasDukeman at outlook.com>
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [blindLaw] Discrimination in the Workplace?
Message-ID:
        <CO1PR06MB791694673A6267FE93327138AD11A at CO1PR06MB7916.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Hello all,

I recently attended the 2023 National NFB conference in Texas and it was from attending some of the workshops related to answering the question of when/if one should being up their vision situation in the spirit of transparency and that some less scrupulous employers might try to bring it before we do and get away with violating the ADA. That got me thinking then, are there instances where our vision has been used against us in some way? I am still pretty new to the NFB and don?t really know much about that kind of thing if at all, is made an issue for us to come together against or if that is something in the past? I know a lot of places SAY they are an equal employment opportunity employer, but are they really, at least for us? I thought to ask here because I feel like if anyone would know about legal issues impacting the blind, it would be you guys.

Thanks for your time and input,
Thomas Dukeman

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 14:51:39 -0400
From: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination in the Workplace?
Message-ID:
        <CAL6jpezQx1Xw_m93O6hPoEueVO7YXnSaWOGAU7afa1AGeCkSKw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Thomas,

Are you asking if blindness is still used against us in employment or
potential employment situations? The answer is a resounding yes.

Warmth,
Sanho

Sanho Steele-Louchart, Esq.
Legal Program Coordinator
National Federation of the Blind
Secretary, National Association of Blind Lawyers
He/Him

On 8/12/23, Thomas Dukeman via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I recently attended the 2023 National NFB conference in Texas and it was
> from attending some of the workshops related to answering the question of
> when/if one should being up their vision situation in the spirit of
> transparency and that some less scrupulous employers might try to bring it
> before we do and get away with violating the ADA. That got me thinking then,
> are there instances where our vision has been used against us in some way? I
> am still pretty new to the NFB and don?t really know much about that kind of
> thing if at all, is made an issue for us to come together against or if that
> is something in the past? I know a lot of places SAY they are an equal
> employment opportunity employer, but are they really, at least for us? I
> thought to ask here because I feel like if anyone would know about legal
> issues impacting the blind, it would be you guys.
>
> Thanks for your time and input,
> Thomas Dukeman
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>


--
He/Him



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 15:00:02 -0400
From: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination in the Workplace?
Message-ID: <AC28CB7E-952C-432B-8F6C-655CBC122C95 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

Indeed! Employment discrimination against the blind is widespread and well-entrenched. My own fun experiences is described at  https://jle.aals.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1748&context=home

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 12, 2023, at 2:53 PM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> ?Thomas,
>
> Are you asking if blindness is still used against us in employment or
> potential employment situations? The answer is a resounding yes.
>
> Warmth,
> Sanho
>
> Sanho Steele-Louchart, Esq.
> Legal Program Coordinator
> National Federation of the Blind
> Secretary, National Association of Blind Lawyers
> He/Him
>
>> On 8/12/23, Thomas Dukeman via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I recently attended the 2023 National NFB conference in Texas and it was
>> from attending some of the workshops related to answering the question of
>> when/if one should being up their vision situation in the spirit of
>> transparency and that some less scrupulous employers might try to bring it
>> before we do and get away with violating the ADA. That got me thinking then,
>> are there instances where our vision has been used against us in some way? I
>> am still pretty new to the NFB and don?t really know much about that kind of
>> thing if at all, is made an issue for us to come together against or if that
>> is something in the past? I know a lot of places SAY they are an equal
>> employment opportunity employer, but are they really, at least for us? I
>> thought to ask here because I feel like if anyone would know about legal
>> issues impacting the blind, it would be you guys.
>>
>> Thanks for your time and input,
>> Thomas Dukeman
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> He/Him
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 17:52:41 -0400
From: Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination in the Workplace?
Message-ID: <6CC741A9-C965-4946-AA9A-103FC50AAA15 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Absolutely, discrimination still exists for people who are blind or low vision. You can do a surface level search of EEOC cases and find a number of them. Also, the EEOC, just a couple of weeks ago, updated its enforcement guidance on equal employment opportunity for blind and visually impaired workers. This was indirect response to What they were seeing, and also because of the increase in blind people being shut out of job applications due to artificial intelligence in the application process. As an employment lawyer myself who primarily works in the civil rights arena, I would say that the vast majority of discrimination in employment toward blind people  is either because of inaccessible technology or incorrect and negative stereotypes about blindness.

Ronza Othman, President
National Federation of the Blind of Maryland
443-426-4110
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 12, 2023, at 1:44 PM, Thomas Dukeman via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> ?Hello all,
>
> I recently attended the 2023 National NFB conference in Texas and it was from attending some of the workshops related to answering the question of when/if one should being up their vision situation in the spirit of transparency and that some less scrupulous employers might try to bring it before we do and get away with violating the ADA. That got me thinking then, are there instances where our vision has been used against us in some way? I am still pretty new to the NFB and don?t really know much about that kind of thing if at all, is made an issue for us to come together against or if that is something in the past? I know a lot of places SAY they are an equal employment opportunity employer, but are they really, at least for us? I thought to ask here because I feel like if anyone would know about legal issues impacting the blind, it would be you guys.
>
> Thanks for your time and input,
> Thomas Dukeman
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com



------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org


------------------------------

End of BlindLaw Digest, Vol 231, Issue 10
*****************************************

From rosesloan920 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 00:06:03 2023
From: rosesloan920 at gmail.com (Rose Warner)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 18:06:03 -0600
Subject: [blindLaw] Calling All Prospective/Current Blind Law School
 Students, & New Attorneys
Message-ID: <E2CC3D13-8D60-42D4-A2FF-4FBB50F930B8@gmail.com>

Save the Date! 

Who: Prospective/Current Blind Law School Students, & New Attorneys 
When: Wed. Oct 18, 2023 at 8:30 PM ET 
What: An informal virtual convening of blind lawyers and prospective and current law school students to talk about tips and tricks of tackling law school and beyond.  
Where: Zoom (link to come) 
Why: Because you’ll meet cool peers including board members of the National Association of Blind Lawyers 

We are interesting in your specific questions or concerns about going to law school and getting started in the profession. We'd love your suggestions of topics to focus on, speakers to invite, and panels to assemble! Please email specific questions or topics for discussion to NABL Board Member Rose Warner at RoseSloan920 at gmail.com by end-of-day on Monday, September 18th.

We can’t wait to hear from you! 







From elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 00:10:18 2023
From: elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com (elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 19:10:18 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Calling All Prospective/Current Blind Law School
 Students, & New Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <E2CC3D13-8D60-42D4-A2FF-4FBB50F930B8@gmail.com>
References: <E2CC3D13-8D60-42D4-A2FF-4FBB50F930B8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002301d9e69f$d8991580$89cb4080$@gmail.com>

Thanks, Rose!

So excited for our up-and-coming members to get together once again for our next quarterly call.

Warmly,
Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Rose Warner via BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 7:06 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: Rose Warner <rosesloan920 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Calling All Prospective/Current Blind Law School Students, & New Attorneys

Save the Date! 

Who: Prospective/Current Blind Law School Students, & New Attorneys 
When: Wed. Oct 18, 2023 at 8:30 PM ET 
What: An informal virtual convening of blind lawyers and prospective and current law school students to talk about tips and tricks of tackling law school and beyond.  
Where: Zoom (link to come) 
Why: Because you’ll meet cool peers including board members of the National Association of Blind Lawyers 

We are interesting in your specific questions or concerns about going to law school and getting started in the profession. We'd love your suggestions of topics to focus on, speakers to invite, and panels to assemble! Please email specific questions or topics for discussion to NABL Board Member Rose Warner at RoseSloan920 at gmail.com by end-of-day on Monday, September 18th.

We can’t wait to hear from you! 






_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/elizabethrouse.nfb%40gmail.com



From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 15 04:17:17 2023
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 04:17:17 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] accommodation question looking for a reputable,
 legal citation source:
Message-ID: <SN6PR05MB3933020A43EB67DF621DD707DCF6A@SN6PR05MB3933.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>


How do blind people I know we are allowed to have with us at a meeting or over the phone someone to join either as a scribe, or to be our eyes in a situation where visual information is presented like sharing photos. Can someone reply posting like link toreply posting a link to a general source that clarifies this fact?
Thank you
 Thank you.

From laurenbishop96 at icloud.com  Fri Sep 15 14:30:28 2023
From: laurenbishop96 at icloud.com (Lauren Bishop)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 10:30:28 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] accommodation question looking for a reputable,
 legal citation source:
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR05MB3933020A43EB67DF621DD707DCF6A@SN6PR05MB3933.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR05MB3933020A43EB67DF621DD707DCF6A@SN6PR05MB3933.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <95996240-C386-4BFC-ACBC-D565ACEAB0CB@icloud.com>

Good Morning, 
The short answer is that a reader and or scribe is a reasonable accommodation. With that said, whether someone can perform these services virtually is going to depend on the situation. For example, if you have to pass a background check to access information in a work place, you are likely going to have to have someone assist in person   if you could provide some more context for your needs, I think people will have an easier time helping you.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2023, at 12:19 AM, wmodnl wmodnl via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> How do blind people I know we are allowed to have with us at a meeting or over the phone someone to join either as a scribe, or to be our eyes in a situation where visual information is presented like sharing photos. Can someone reply posting like link toreply posting a link to a general source that clarifies this fact?
> Thank you
> Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laurenbishop96%40icloud.com


From ces2266 at columbia.edu  Sun Sep 17 05:27:37 2023
From: ces2266 at columbia.edu (Caleb E. Smith)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 01:27:37 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Calling All Prospective/Current Blind Law School
 Students, & New Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <002301d9e69f$d8991580$89cb4080$@gmail.com>
References: <E2CC3D13-8D60-42D4-A2FF-4FBB50F930B8@gmail.com>
 <002301d9e69f$d8991580$89cb4080$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPvmW5R+sxmcK+imbcrZPKf7rpdbtSZ0a3D1sgJTkO5xKpoHww@mail.gmail.com>

Great, looking forward to it.

On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 8:11 PM Elizabeth Rouse via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Thanks, Rose!
>
> So excited for our up-and-coming members to get together once again for
> our next quarterly call.
>
> Warmly,
> Elizabeth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Rose Warner via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 7:06 PM
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Rose Warner <rosesloan920 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Calling All Prospective/Current Blind Law School
> Students, & New Attorneys
>
> Save the Date!
>
> Who: Prospective/Current Blind Law School Students, & New Attorneys
> When: Wed. Oct 18, 2023 at 8:30 PM ET
> What: An informal virtual convening of blind lawyers and prospective and
> current law school students to talk about tips and tricks of tackling law
> school and beyond.
> Where: Zoom (link to come)
> Why: Because you’ll meet cool peers including board members of the
> National Association of Blind Lawyers
>
> We are interesting in your specific questions or concerns about going to
> law school and getting started in the profession. We'd love your
> suggestions of topics to focus on, speakers to invite, and panels to
> assemble! Please email specific questions or topics for discussion to NABL
> Board Member Rose Warner at RoseSloan920 at gmail.com by end-of-day on
> Monday, September 18th.
>
> We can’t wait to hear from you!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/elizabethrouse.nfb%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ces2266%40columbia.edu
>

From rosesloan920 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 17 14:02:04 2023
From: rosesloan920 at gmail.com (Rose Warner)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 08:02:04 -0600
Subject: [blindLaw] Calling All Prospective/Current Blind Law School
 Students & New Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <CAPvmW5R+sxmcK+imbcrZPKf7rpdbtSZ0a3D1sgJTkO5xKpoHww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPvmW5R+sxmcK+imbcrZPKf7rpdbtSZ0a3D1sgJTkO5xKpoHww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0F84BDD3-0838-407D-8506-EC56D1C51A73@gmail.com>

Greetings NABL - 

Sending a friendly reminder to anyone who may attend our virtual convening on Oct. 18 to please send any proposed topics of discussion to me at RoseSloan920 at gmail.com. 

I had a great time at our first convening over the summer, and I am excited for this one as well! 

Here are the details: 

>> Who: Prospective/Current Blind Law School Students & New Attorneys
>> When: Wed. Oct 18, 2023 at 8:30 PM ET
>> What: An informal virtual convening of blind lawyers and prospective and
>> current law school students to talk about tips and tricks of tackling law
>> school and beyond.
>> Where: Zoom (link to come)
>> Why: Because you’ll meet cool peers including board members of the
>> National Association of Blind Lawyers
>> 
>> We are interesting in your specific questions or concerns about going to
>> law school and getting started in the profession. We'd love your
>> suggestions of topics to focus on, speakers to invite, and panels to
>> assemble! Please email specific questions or topics for discussion to NABL
>> Board Member Rose Warner at RoseSloan920 at gmail.com by end-of-day on
>> Monday, September 18th

Take care, and happy Constitution day! 

Rose 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 16, 2023, at 11:28 PM, Caleb E. Smith via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Great, looking forward to it.
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 8:11 PM Elizabeth Rouse via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Rose!
>> 
>> So excited for our up-and-coming members to get together once again for
>> our next quarterly call.
>> 
>> Warmly,
>> Elizabeth
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Rose Warner via
>> BlindLaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 7:06 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Rose Warner <rosesloan920 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [blindLaw] Calling All Prospective/Current Blind Law School
>> Students, & New Attorneys
>> 
>> Save the Date!
>> 
>> Who: Prospective/Current Blind Law School Students, & New Attorneys
>> When: Wed. Oct 18, 2023 at 8:30 PM ET
>> What: An informal virtual convening of blind lawyers and prospective and
>> current law school students to talk about tips and tricks of tackling law
>> school and beyond.
>> Where: Zoom (link to come)
>> Why: Because you’ll meet cool peers including board members of the
>> National Association of Blind Lawyers
>> 
>> We are interesting in your specific questions or concerns about going to
>> law school and getting started in the profession. We'd love your
>> suggestions of topics to focus on, speakers to invite, and panels to
>> assemble! Please email specific questions or topics for discussion to NABL
>> Board Member Rose Warner at RoseSloan920 at gmail.com by end-of-day on
>> Monday, September 18th.
>> 
>> We can’t wait to hear from you!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/elizabethrouse.nfb%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ces2266%40columbia.edu
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rosesloan920%40gmail.com


From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Sun Sep 17 16:26:53 2023
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (rothmanjd at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 12:26:53 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law Students:
 Tips and Tricks of the Trade
Message-ID: <066b01d9e983$c53a2510$4fae6f30$@gmail.com>

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From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Sun Sep 17 17:55:20 2023
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 17:55:20 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] =?windows-1252?q?Resume_Request=3A_Supervisory_Genera?=
 =?windows-1252?q?l_Attorney_=28Program_Manager=29_Position_=96_U=2ES=2E_D?=
 =?windows-1252?q?epartment_of_Education=2C_Office_for_Civil_Rights?=
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR09MB7707AD43174FF04EB3968CACE0F6A@PH0PR09MB7707.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <PH0PR09MB7707AD43174FF04EB3968CACE0F6A@PH0PR09MB7707.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SA9PR09MB545484818E2E14A5671E6938F9F4A@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>


The U.S. Department of Education’s (ED) Office for Civil Rights (OCR) is currently soliciting resumes to fill a Supervisory General Attorney (i.e., Program Manager) position within the DC Metro Regional Office.

OCR accepts resumes from eligible individuals who may be considered for a noncompetitive appointment to an Attorney position via the following excepted hiring authorities: 1) Schedule A Persons with Disabilities appointments (5 C.F.R. § 213.3102(u)); 2) Veterans’ Recruitment Appointments; 3) Excepted Hiring Authority for Attorneys (5 C.F.R. § 213.3102(d)); and 4) Former Peace Corps and AmeriCorps Appointees (22 U.S.C. § 2506), respectively.

OCR’s Supervisory General Attorney (i.e., Program Manager), GS-905-15, is a Telework-Eligible position. The position is responsible for serving as a Program Manager who provides leadership and guidance in support of the civil rights compliance and enforcement program at a regional office for a geographic region composed of one or more states.

The grade level qualifications for OCR attorney positions are outlined in the attachment. Interested and qualified applicants should submit their resume and optional cover letter to ocrjobs at ed.gov<mailto:ocrjobs at ed.gov> for this position by September 22nd, 2023.

Additional Important Vacancy Details:

Since this is a telework-eligible position, interested persons must live within local commuting proximity to an ED regional office. The regional office locations include Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Kansas City, Washington, DC Metro, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Seattle.

When applying for the position, please indicate the following in your email:

  *   The position title and OCR regional enforcement office vacancy (i.e., DC Metro) for which you want to be considered
  *   Desired regional office work location
  *   Veteran’s status, if applicable
  *   Optional cover letter attached or in the body of the email.

OCR will keep resumes on file for 365 days following the date of receipt. Applicants will be contacted to confirm their continued interest as vacancies occur. If contacted for an interview, a writing sample, official transcript, and a list of references will be required during later stages of the selection process.

Attorney vacancies are also announced via www.usajobs.gov<http://www.usajobs.gov>, the Federal government’s official employment site. Candidates are encouraged to routinely check USAJobs for current OCR vacancy announcements. Please share this announcement with other organizations and individuals who may be interested in employment with OCR.

Please note that OCRJobs at ed.gov<mailto:OCRJobs at ed.gov> is not staffed to respond to questions.


-------------- next part --------------
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From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 17 19:51:19 2023
From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 15:51:19 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law
 Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade
In-Reply-To: <066b01d9e983$c53a2510$4fae6f30$@gmail.com>
References: <066b01d9e983$c53a2510$4fae6f30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64E15972-52C7-46E9-A88B-01B61AD09E71@gmail.com>

Hello everyone. Hope you guys are doing well. Is the event today at 8:30 PM? just wondering. If so, how can I access it? Thanks so much for reading.

Helga Schreiber 
Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com 
Sent From my iPhone 11 Pro Max 
 


> On Sep 17, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Ronza Othman via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com

From raywayne1959 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 17 19:58:09 2023
From: raywayne1959 at gmail.com (raywayne1959 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 15:58:09 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law
 Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade
In-Reply-To: <64E15972-52C7-46E9-A88B-01B61AD09E71@gmail.com>
References: <066b01d9e983$c53a2510$4fae6f30$@gmail.com>
 <64E15972-52C7-46E9-A88B-01B61AD09E71@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01d9e9a1$48aa7f40$d9ff7dc0$@gmail.com>

It's on October 18!
Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber via BlindLaw
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 3:51 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade

Hello everyone. Hope you guys are doing well. Is the event today at 8:30 PM? just wondering. If so, how can I access it? Thanks so much for reading.

Helga Schreiber
Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Sent From my iPhone 11 Pro Max 
 


> On Sep 17, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Ronza Othman via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber2
> 6%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/raywayne1959%40gmail.com



From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Sun Sep 17 19:58:58 2023
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (rothmanjd at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 15:58:58 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law
 Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade
In-Reply-To: <64E15972-52C7-46E9-A88B-01B61AD09E71@gmail.com>
References: <066b01d9e983$c53a2510$4fae6f30$@gmail.com>
 <64E15972-52C7-46E9-A88B-01B61AD09E71@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <075b01d9e9a1$65ddee30$3199ca90$@gmail.com>

It’s not until October.

 

 

Ronza Othman, President

National Federation of the Blind of Maryland

443-426-4110

Pronouns: she, her, hers

 

From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com> 
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 3:51 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Rose Warner <rosesloan920 at gmail.com>; rothmanjd at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade

 

Hello everyone. Hope you guys are doing well. Is the event today at 8:30 PM? just wondering. If so, how can I access it? Thanks so much for reading.

Helga Schreiber 

Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com <mailto:helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com>  

Sent From my iPhone 11 Pro Max 


 

	





On Sep 17, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Ronza Othman via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org> > wrote:




From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 17 20:54:27 2023
From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 16:54:27 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law
 Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade
In-Reply-To: <002b01d9e9a1$48aa7f40$d9ff7dc0$@gmail.com>
References: <002b01d9e9a1$48aa7f40$d9ff7dc0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9138729C-90C1-469B-A223-CE43EBFB3C6C@gmail.com>

Hi all. Great! Thanks for letting me know. I was just kind of confuse with the calendar attachment from the email  message. I look  forward to it! I suppose  a zoom link will be provided prior the day of the event right? Thanks for reading! 

Helga Schreiber 
Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com 
Sent From my iPhone 11 Pro Max 
 


> On Sep 17, 2023, at 3:59 PM, Ray Wayne via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> It's on October 18!
> Ray
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber via BlindLaw
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023 3:51 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade
> 
> Hello everyone. Hope you guys are doing well. Is the event today at 8:30 PM? just wondering. If so, how can I access it? Thanks so much for reading.
> 
> Helga Schreiber
> Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com Sent From my iPhone 11 Pro Max 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Ronza Othman via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber2
>> 6%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/raywayne1959%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com

From andrehill6188 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 17 21:29:06 2023
From: andrehill6188 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Hill?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 17:29:06 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law
 Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade
In-Reply-To: <64E15972-52C7-46E9-A88B-01B61AD09E71@gmail.com>
References: <066b01d9e983$c53a2510$4fae6f30$@gmail.com>
 <64E15972-52C7-46E9-A88B-01B61AD09E71@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG+A59L9DzgWn9cG+=-fn3=0qFt+8c8BgpT6smmF=+T2nOnZSw@mail.gmail.com>

No, it is going to be October 18th, 2023 from 830 to 930pm

On Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 3:53 PM Helga Schreiber via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hello everyone. Hope you guys are doing well. Is the event today at 8:30
> PM? just wondering. If so, how can I access it? Thanks so much for reading.
>
> Helga Schreiber
> Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com
> Sent From my iPhone 11 Pro Max
>
>
>
> > On Sep 17, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Ronza Othman via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/andrehill6188%40gmail.com
>

From Christopher.C.Collins at Colorado.EDU  Sun Sep 17 21:53:59 2023
From: Christopher.C.Collins at Colorado.EDU (Christopher Curtis Collins)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 21:53:59 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law
 Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade
In-Reply-To: <CAG+A59L9DzgWn9cG+=-fn3=0qFt+8c8BgpT6smmF=+T2nOnZSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <066b01d9e983$c53a2510$4fae6f30$@gmail.com>
 <64E15972-52C7-46E9-A88B-01B61AD09E71@gmail.com>
 <CAG+A59L9DzgWn9cG+=-fn3=0qFt+8c8BgpT6smmF=+T2nOnZSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY5PR03MB5170C205A58AF72189EB22B1DBF4A@BY5PR03MB5170.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all,

I am a prospective law student. I look forward to joining everyone and learning the tips and tricks of the trade.

Chris Collins

________________________________
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> on behalf of André Hill via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2023, 3:30 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: André Hill <andrehill6188 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] NABL Gathering for Current and Prospective Law Students: Tips and Tricks of the Trade

No, it is going to be October 18th, 2023 from 830 to 930pm

On Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 3:53 PM Helga Schreiber via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hello everyone. Hope you guys are doing well. Is the event today at 8:30
> PM? just wondering. If so, how can I access it? Thanks so much for reading.
>
> Helga Schreiber
> Email Address: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com
> Sent From my iPhone 11 Pro Max
>
>
>
> > On Sep 17, 2023, at 12:28 PM, Ronza Othman via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=05%7C01%7Cchristopher.c.collins%40colorado.edu%7C00fd2ed3e37d4b4fabc308dbb7c55700%7C3ded8b1b070d462982e4c0b019f46057%7C1%7C0%7C638305830444097881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=06EJ9CmflgTuuoUwaFlEr3NSh6MBmErahjt9NoNoqrc%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fhelga.schreiber26%2540gmail.com&data=05%7C01%7Cchristopher.c.collins%40colorado.edu%7C00fd2ed3e37d4b4fabc308dbb7c55700%7C3ded8b1b070d462982e4c0b019f46057%7C1%7C0%7C638305830444097881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xpPcqBgiOYQa%2B104zzLSeNfIjV5Vu89iww1jjAnn4bw%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
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> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=05%7C01%7Cchristopher.c.collins%40colorado.edu%7C00fd2ed3e37d4b4fabc308dbb7c55700%7C3ded8b1b070d462982e4c0b019f46057%7C1%7C0%7C638305830444097881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=06EJ9CmflgTuuoUwaFlEr3NSh6MBmErahjt9NoNoqrc%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fandrehill6188%2540gmail.com&data=05%7C01%7Cchristopher.c.collins%40colorado.edu%7C00fd2ed3e37d4b4fabc308dbb7c55700%7C3ded8b1b070d462982e4c0b019f46057%7C1%7C0%7C638305830444097881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Kzrxo73Fny%2BEDOIMlw8OwCcq1XzrGJB8T39e6PjYoW8%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/andrehill6188%40gmail.com>
>
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org&data=05%7C01%7Cchristopher.c.collins%40colorado.edu%7C00fd2ed3e37d4b4fabc308dbb7c55700%7C3ded8b1b070d462982e4c0b019f46057%7C1%7C0%7C638305830444097881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=06EJ9CmflgTuuoUwaFlEr3NSh6MBmErahjt9NoNoqrc%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindlaw_nfbnet.org%2Fchristopher.c.collins%2540colorado.edu&data=05%7C01%7Cchristopher.c.collins%40colorado.edu%7C00fd2ed3e37d4b4fabc308dbb7c55700%7C3ded8b1b070d462982e4c0b019f46057%7C1%7C0%7C638305830444097881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0eJl1th%2FrxTSlMasX%2FE4Tyq3td8x4ayrLvDI5cKXKFQ%3D&reserved=0<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christopher.c.collins%40colorado.edu>


From AMatney at reedsmith.com  Tue Sep 19 15:33:27 2023
From: AMatney at reedsmith.com (Matney, Angela R.)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 15:33:27 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] FW: ABA & BBI Survey: Invite to Participate in Survey
In-Reply-To: <IA0PR12MB7750E7F1952FCDF53A24CC0CF9FAA@IA0PR12MB7750.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <IA0PR12MB7750E7F1952FCDF53A24CC0CF9FAA@IA0PR12MB7750.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <65da2b102c31457a95bcaee35ef6d883@reedsmith.com>

Hello everyone,

See the note below from Amy Allbright, Staff Director for the ABA Commission on Disability Rights, with an invitation to participate in a research study examining workplace experiences in the legal profession. The survey is being conducted by the Burton Blatt Institute and the ABA

Thank you,

Angie



Angela R. Matney, CIPP/US (Angie)
Counsel
D: +1 202-414-9343
Preferred pronouns: she/her
amatney at reedsmith.com<mailto:amatney at reedsmith.com>

Bio<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela>|vCard<https://www.reedsmith.com/en/professionals/m/matney-angela?format=vcard>|E-Mail|<mailto:%20amatney at reedsmith.com>ReedSmith.com<http://www.reedsmith.com/>

1301 K Street, NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20005

ReedSmith


New Survey to Understand Workplace Experiences of Legal Professionals

Colleagues,

You and your network of legal professionals are invited to participate in a research study examining workplace experiences in the legal profession. This first-its-kind study is being conducted by the Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University (BBI) in partnership with the American Bar Association (ABA). The benefit of participating in this research is that you will be helping us identify the organizational policies, practices, and cultures that lead to positive employment outcomes for employees in the legal profession. You will also be helping us identify the policies and practices that lead to a more productive workplace culture where all employees can thrive. The online survey should take approximately 15-30 minutes. If you are interested in either participating or in learning more, please click on the link below:

https://bit.ly/bbi-abasurvey2



Please feel free to pass this email request for participation to your colleagues and various legal professional networks.







Amy Allbright
Staff Director
Commission on Disability Rights (CDR) – Mail Stop 8.0
American Bar Association (ABA)
1050 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 400
Washington, DC 20036-5303

T: 202.662.1575
Cell: 703.336.2501
F: 202.442.3439
amy.allbright at americanbar.org<mailto:amy.allbright at americanbar.org>
http://www.americanbar.org/disability
pronouns: she/her/ hers








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From montascarlos267 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 19 17:44:34 2023
From: montascarlos267 at gmail.com (carlos Montas)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:44:34 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Fwd: EEOC Issues Report on the Timeliness of Merit Final
 Agency Decisions in the Federal Sector
References: <16827614.31775@updates.eeoc.gov>
Message-ID: <6B3958C3-8FAE-4846-B0BD-B45CAF7245A6@gmail.com>

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From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Tue Sep 19 22:12:39 2023
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 22:12:39 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Washington Department of Health Health Law Judge Posting
 | DOH7590
In-Reply-To: <CO6PR09MB7640E682647CE6EA0E5B313FD4FAA@CO6PR09MB7640.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CO6PR09MB7640E682647CE6EA0E5B313FD4FAA@CO6PR09MB7640.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SA9PR09MB545406AC4BFE05F22C482AF2F9FAA@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>



From: Anson, Lisette M (DOH) <lisette.anson at doh.wa.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 2:38 PM
Subject: DOH Health Law Judge Posting Request | DOH7590


You don't often get email from lisette.anson at doh.wa.gov<mailto:lisette.anson at doh.wa.gov>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

I’m inquiring if you would be able to post our newest job posting for a Health Law Judge (HE3)<https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/washington/jobs/4205743/health-law-judge-he3-multiple-positions-doh7590> for the Department of Health that closes on 10/18/2023.

Thank you,
Lisette

Lisette Anson
Gender Pronouns: she/her
Talent Acquisition Specialist
Office of People Services
Washington State Department of Health
lisette.anson at doh.wa.gov<mailto:lisette.anson at doh.wa.gov>
doh.wa.gov<http://www.doh.wa.gov/>  |  360-236-3013

[cid:image001.png at 01D9EB06.DB0688F0]<https://doh.wa.gov/about-us/contact-us/social-media>
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From maurakutnyak at gmail.com  Thu Sep 21 10:43:22 2023
From: maurakutnyak at gmail.com (Maura Kutnyak)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 06:43:22 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind public defenders
Message-ID: <C4FDE86C-40B9-491E-B3EA-767B845D3A6E@gmail.com>

Greetings from buffalo,

I seek camaraderie and connection with Blind public defenders. My first post law school job is with the legal aid bureau in Buffalo. for many reasons, this job is a perfect fit for me. I feel privileged to be working for my community; and very passionate about a lot of the issues that come up. However, there is so much bloody paper. That fact, coupled with the breakneck pace that the arraignment process takes are giving me reasons to worry. 

If anyone has time and knowledge to share, please call text or email me. Thank you all very much! 

Warmly,

Maura Kutnyak
716-563-9882

From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 22 06:57:19 2023
From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 12:27:19 +0530
Subject: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for litigation
 work
Message-ID: <CADFycPYLHTcoUdecvtSrG9ePP1yw-qTSpvE+Gm7KZMYVhM0RoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Good afternoon from New Delhi. I have joined the bar in New Delhi and have
been in active legal practice for around 14 months, in the areas of
intellectual property law and disability rights law. The feedback that I
got from the law firm where I work, albeit expressed subtly, is that I
should prepare better for matters, to be able to provide valuable inputs in
an ongoing conference or hearing. they said that asking for time to look
for the relevant information may just result in the hearing or meeting
becoming ineffective, and therefore I do have the unfair onus of going the
extra mile.

If you have 5 minutes, could you outline  what I could be doing more? I
have an intern who has been appointed specifically to address my needs. I
need to develop a system to be more practically useful in hearings and
conferences.

Rahul

-- 
--
Rahul Bajaj
Attorney, Ira Law
Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
Human Rights Hub
Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
Court of India

From sanho817 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 22 11:25:58 2023
From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 07:25:58 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for
 litigation work
In-Reply-To: <CADFycPYLHTcoUdecvtSrG9ePP1yw-qTSpvE+Gm7KZMYVhM0RoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADFycPYLHTcoUdecvtSrG9ePP1yw-qTSpvE+Gm7KZMYVhM0RoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA2AAFDD-99C6-4456-BCF1-94F4D19A03E8@gmail.com>

Good morning, 

It's hard to say what you could be doing more without knowing what you're doing already. What's your current process?  

Warmth, 
Sanho 

> On Sep 22, 2023, at 3:01 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Good afternoon from New Delhi. I have joined the bar in New Delhi and have
> been in active legal practice for around 14 months, in the areas of
> intellectual property law and disability rights law. The feedback that I
> got from the law firm where I work, albeit expressed subtly, is that I
> should prepare better for matters, to be able to provide valuable inputs in
> an ongoing conference or hearing. they said that asking for time to look
> for the relevant information may just result in the hearing or meeting
> becoming ineffective, and therefore I do have the unfair onus of going the
> extra mile.
> 
> If you have 5 minutes, could you outline  what I could be doing more? I
> have an intern who has been appointed specifically to address my needs. I
> need to develop a system to be more practically useful in hearings and
> conferences.
> 
> Rahul
> 
> -- 
> --
> Rahul Bajaj
> Attorney, Ira Law
> Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
> Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
> Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
> Human Rights Hub
> Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
> Court of India
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com


From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 22 11:42:43 2023
From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 17:12:43 +0530
Subject: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for
 litigation work
In-Reply-To: <DA2AAFDD-99C6-4456-BCF1-94F4D19A03E8@gmail.com>
References: <CADFycPYLHTcoUdecvtSrG9ePP1yw-qTSpvE+Gm7KZMYVhM0RoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <DA2AAFDD-99C6-4456-BCF1-94F4D19A03E8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADFycPY96eVyB4y8EOmo+7GnV6ap1njJ13ExD93VHnqdcCnyTw@mail.gmail.com>

thanks, sanho. Here is what I read currently:
1. If it is a suit, I read the plaint where we are for the defendant.
2. If it is an appeal where we are for the appellee, I read the appeal from
the appellant.
3. I read the orders to date, if it is a matter in which hearings have
taken place before.
4. if we have filed a written statement or a response, I read that.

What I do not read:
1. annexures accompanying the pleadings. because of 2 reasons: I have
difficulty figuring out which ones to zero in on and a large number of them
are quite inaccessible and bulky. so I tend to shy away from reading them.
during arguments, I find it hard to follow when the lawyer from the other
side is reading a particular annexure and I have not read it before. this
also ahppens in meetings with senior lawyers and case discussions. it is my
biggest weakness.
2. If it is an appeal, I do not read pleadings in the courts below which I
can do if they are accessible or make them accessible if not.
3. I don't bookmark properly and pinpoint key pieces of info in a quickly
retrievable format.

Rahul

On Fri, 22 Sept 2023 at 16:57, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Good morning,
>
> It's hard to say what you could be doing more without knowing what you're
> doing already. What's your current process?
>
> Warmth,
> Sanho
>
> > On Sep 22, 2023, at 3:01 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Good afternoon from New Delhi. I have joined the bar in New Delhi and
> have
> > been in active legal practice for around 14 months, in the areas of
> > intellectual property law and disability rights law. The feedback that I
> > got from the law firm where I work, albeit expressed subtly, is that I
> > should prepare better for matters, to be able to provide valuable inputs
> in
> > an ongoing conference or hearing. they said that asking for time to look
> > for the relevant information may just result in the hearing or meeting
> > becoming ineffective, and therefore I do have the unfair onus of going
> the
> > extra mile.
> >
> > If you have 5 minutes, could you outline  what I could be doing more? I
> > have an intern who has been appointed specifically to address my needs. I
> > need to develop a system to be more practically useful in hearings and
> > conferences.
> >
> > Rahul
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Rahul Bajaj
> > Attorney, Ira Law
> > Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
> > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
> > Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
> > Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
> > Human Rights Hub
> > Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
> > Court of India
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com
>


-- 
--
Rahul Bajaj
Attorney, Ira Law
Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
Human Rights Hub
Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
Court of India

From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 22 12:36:28 2023
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:36:28 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for
 litigation work
In-Reply-To: <CADFycPY96eVyB4y8EOmo+7GnV6ap1njJ13ExD93VHnqdcCnyTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADFycPY96eVyB4y8EOmo+7GnV6ap1njJ13ExD93VHnqdcCnyTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A522FF5A-C92F-4024-9668-755108ED49F1@yahoo.com>

Rahul,
If you are arguing in hearings,you need to know the record, or at least the parts relevant to the hearing, extremely well. Ideally, you can direct the court to your best evidence very quickly.  This might and often does require many hours of preparation for a few minutes of action. I’m not sure how things work in India, but it is very rare for lawyers in the US to read aloud from anything during a hearing. If a lawyer were to do so, the judge would likely cut them off with a sharp admonition to stop wasting time. 
Also, if any important document in the record is inaccessible, priority No. 1 needs to be making it accessible. This burden should be on your firm, not you, but realistically, you will have to do some extra work to ensure that this happens. If your firm expects you to handle hearings but can’t or won’t make most if not all record documents accessible, then that is a serious problem and could sabotage your career

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2023, at 7:44 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> thanks, sanho. Here is what I read currently:
> 1. If it is a suit, I read the plaint where we are for the defendant.
> 2. If it is an appeal where we are for the appellee, I read the appeal from
> the appellant.
> 3. I read the orders to date, if it is a matter in which hearings have
> taken place before.
> 4. if we have filed a written statement or a response, I read that.
> 
> What I do not read:
> 1. annexures accompanying the pleadings. because of 2 reasons: I have
> difficulty figuring out which ones to zero in on and a large number of them
> are quite inaccessible and bulky. so I tend to shy away from reading them.
> during arguments, I find it hard to follow when the lawyer from the other
> side is reading a particular annexure and I have not read it before. this
> also ahppens in meetings with senior lawyers and case discussions. it is my
> biggest weakness.
> 2. If it is an appeal, I do not read pleadings in the courts below which I
> can do if they are accessible or make them accessible if not.
> 3. I don't bookmark properly and pinpoint key pieces of info in a quickly
> retrievable format.
> 
> Rahul
> 
>> On Fri, 22 Sept 2023 at 16:57, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning,
>> 
>> It's hard to say what you could be doing more without knowing what you're
>> doing already. What's your current process?
>> 
>> Warmth,
>> Sanho
>> 
>>> On Sep 22, 2023, at 3:01 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Good afternoon from New Delhi. I have joined the bar in New Delhi and
>> have
>>> been in active legal practice for around 14 months, in the areas of
>>> intellectual property law and disability rights law. The feedback that I
>>> got from the law firm where I work, albeit expressed subtly, is that I
>>> should prepare better for matters, to be able to provide valuable inputs
>> in
>>> an ongoing conference or hearing. they said that asking for time to look
>>> for the relevant information may just result in the hearing or meeting
>>> becoming ineffective, and therefore I do have the unfair onus of going
>> the
>>> extra mile.
>>> 
>>> If you have 5 minutes, could you outline  what I could be doing more? I
>>> have an intern who has been appointed specifically to address my needs. I
>>> need to develop a system to be more practically useful in hearings and
>>> conferences.
>>> 
>>> Rahul
>>> 
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Rahul Bajaj
>>> Attorney, Ira Law
>>> Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
>>> Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
>>> Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
>>> Human Rights Hub
>>> Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
>>> Court of India
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> Rahul Bajaj
> Attorney, Ira Law
> Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
> Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
> Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
> Human Rights Hub
> Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
> Court of India
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com



From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 24 14:21:56 2023
From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 14:21:56 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for
 litigation work
In-Reply-To: <A522FF5A-C92F-4024-9668-755108ED49F1@yahoo.com>
References: <CADFycPY96eVyB4y8EOmo+7GnV6ap1njJ13ExD93VHnqdcCnyTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A522FF5A-C92F-4024-9668-755108ED49F1@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KL1PR0601MB5726B940392B9E9D2609795BFDFDA@KL1PR0601MB5726.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>

James, thank you. Litigation here is practised very differently. Arguments or not time bound. So lawyers spend hours arguing their cases and read out extracts. My firm is willing to be inclusive to the extent necessary. Although they are bit reluctant and have to be pushed. I need to figure out a system for being better prepared for cases. Let me know your thoughts on my reply to the message by San Ho.

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 6:06:28 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Rahul Bajaj <rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for litigation work

Rahul,
If you are arguing in hearings,you need to know the record, or at least the parts relevant to the hearing, extremely well. Ideally, you can direct the court to your best evidence very quickly.  This might and often does require many hours of preparation for a few minutes of action. I’m not sure how things work in India, but it is very rare for lawyers in the US to read aloud from anything during a hearing. If a lawyer were to do so, the judge would likely cut them off with a sharp admonition to stop wasting time.
Also, if any important document in the record is inaccessible, priority No. 1 needs to be making it accessible. This burden should be on your firm, not you, but realistically, you will have to do some extra work to ensure that this happens. If your firm expects you to handle hearings but can’t or won’t make most if not all record documents accessible, then that is a serious problem and could sabotage your career

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2023, at 7:44 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> thanks, sanho. Here is what I read currently:
> 1. If it is a suit, I read the plaint where we are for the defendant.
> 2. If it is an appeal where we are for the appellee, I read the appeal from
> the appellant.
> 3. I read the orders to date, if it is a matter in which hearings have
> taken place before.
> 4. if we have filed a written statement or a response, I read that.
>
> What I do not read:
> 1. annexures accompanying the pleadings. because of 2 reasons: I have
> difficulty figuring out which ones to zero in on and a large number of them
> are quite inaccessible and bulky. so I tend to shy away from reading them.
> during arguments, I find it hard to follow when the lawyer from the other
> side is reading a particular annexure and I have not read it before. this
> also ahppens in meetings with senior lawyers and case discussions. it is my
> biggest weakness.
> 2. If it is an appeal, I do not read pleadings in the courts below which I
> can do if they are accessible or make them accessible if not.
> 3. I don't bookmark properly and pinpoint key pieces of info in a quickly
> retrievable format.
>
> Rahul
>
>> On Fri, 22 Sept 2023 at 16:57, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Good morning,
>>
>> It's hard to say what you could be doing more without knowing what you're
>> doing already. What's your current process?
>>
>> Warmth,
>> Sanho
>>
>>> On Sep 22, 2023, at 3:01 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Good afternoon from New Delhi. I have joined the bar in New Delhi and
>> have
>>> been in active legal practice for around 14 months, in the areas of
>>> intellectual property law and disability rights law. The feedback that I
>>> got from the law firm where I work, albeit expressed subtly, is that I
>>> should prepare better for matters, to be able to provide valuable inputs
>> in
>>> an ongoing conference or hearing. they said that asking for time to look
>>> for the relevant information may just result in the hearing or meeting
>>> becoming ineffective, and therefore I do have the unfair onus of going
>> the
>>> extra mile.
>>>
>>> If you have 5 minutes, could you outline  what I could be doing more? I
>>> have an intern who has been appointed specifically to address my needs. I
>>> need to develop a system to be more practically useful in hearings and
>>> conferences.
>>>
>>> Rahul
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Rahul Bajaj
>>> Attorney, Ira Law
>>> Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
>>> Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
>>> Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
>>> Human Rights Hub
>>> Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
>>> Court of India
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Rahul Bajaj
> Attorney, Ira Law
> Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
> Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
> Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
> Human Rights Hub
> Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
> Court of India
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com


From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 25 14:40:13 2023
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James T. Fetter)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:40:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for
 litigation work
In-Reply-To: <KL1PR0601MB5726B940392B9E9D2609795BFDFDA@KL1PR0601MB5726.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CADFycPY96eVyB4y8EOmo+7GnV6ap1njJ13ExD93VHnqdcCnyTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A522FF5A-C92F-4024-9668-755108ED49F1@yahoo.com>
 <KL1PR0601MB5726B940392B9E9D2609795BFDFDA@KL1PR0601MB5726.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <294196742.3447945.1695652813017@mail.yahoo.com>

 Rahul,
That's helpful, and yes, those are significant differences. My only advice, other than getting a Braille display so you can read aloud from longer documents, is to push your firm as hard as necessary to get *all* documents in a format you can read. They can't critique you for not being prepared on the one hand and fail to provide you the documents that everyone else has on the other. If documents are handwritten, then they should provide a qualified reader who can read aloud from them on command for you. If they're in electronic format and/or hardcopy, then they can be converted into accessible format with readily available, off-the-shelf technology.Best of luck; it sounds like you're in a very challenging environment!James
    On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 10:22:01 AM EDT, Rahul Bajaj <rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 James, thank you. Litigation here is practised very differently. Arguments or not time bound. So lawyers spend hours arguing their cases and read out extracts. My firm is willing to be inclusive to the extent necessary. Although they are bit reluctant and have to be pushed. I need to figure out a system for being better prepared for cases. Let me know your thoughts on my reply to the message by San Ho.
Sent from Outlook for iOSFrom: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 6:06:28 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Rahul Bajaj <rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for litigation work Rahul,
If you are arguing in hearings,you need to know the record, or at least the parts relevant to the hearing, extremely well. Ideally, you can direct the court to your best evidence very quickly.  This might and often does require many hours of preparation for a few minutes of action. I’m not sure how things work in India, but it is very rare for lawyers in the US to read aloud from anything during a hearing. If a lawyer were to do so, the judge would likely cut them off with a sharp admonition to stop wasting time.
Also, if any important document in the record is inaccessible, priority No. 1 needs to be making it accessible. This burden should be on your firm, not you, but realistically, you will have to do some extra work to ensure that this happens. If your firm expects you to handle hearings but can’t or won’t make most if not all record documents accessible, then that is a serious problem and could sabotage your career

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2023, at 7:44 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> thanks, sanho. Here is what I read currently:
> 1. If it is a suit, I read the plaint where we are for the defendant.
> 2. If it is an appeal where we are for the appellee, I read the appeal from
> the appellant.
> 3. I read the orders to date, if it is a matter in which hearings have
> taken place before.
> 4. if we have filed a written statement or a response, I read that.
> 
> What I do not read:
> 1. annexures accompanying the pleadings. because of 2 reasons: I have
> difficulty figuring out which ones to zero in on and a large number of them
> are quite inaccessible and bulky. so I tend to shy away from reading them.
> during arguments, I find it hard to follow when the lawyer from the other
> side is reading a particular annexure and I have not read it before. this
> also ahppens in meetings with senior lawyers and case discussions. it is my
> biggest weakness.
> 2. If it is an appeal, I do not read pleadings in the courts below which I
> can do if they are accessible or make them accessible if not.
> 3. I don't bookmark properly and pinpoint key pieces of info in a quickly
> retrievable format.
> 
> Rahul
> 
>> On Fri, 22 Sept 2023 at 16:57, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning,
>> 
>> It's hard to say what you could be doing more without knowing what you're
>> doing already. What's your current process?
>> 
>> Warmth,
>> Sanho
>> 
>>> On Sep 22, 2023, at 3:01 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Good afternoon from New Delhi. I have joined the bar in New Delhi and
>> have
>>> been in active legal practice for around 14 months, in the areas of
>>> intellectual property law and disability rights law. The feedback that I
>>> got from the law firm where I work, albeit expressed subtly, is that I
>>> should prepare better for matters, to be able to provide valuable inputs
>> in
>>> an ongoing conference or hearing. they said that asking for time to look
>>> for the relevant information may just result in the hearing or meeting
>>> becoming ineffective, and therefore I do have the unfair onus of going
>> the
>>> extra mile.
>>> 
>>> If you have 5 minutes, could you outline  what I could be doing more? I
>>> have an intern who has been appointed specifically to address my needs. I
>>> need to develop a system to be more practically useful in hearings and
>>> conferences.
>>> 
>>> Rahul
>>> 
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Rahul Bajaj
>>> Attorney, Ira Law
>>> Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
>>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
>>> Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
>>> Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
>>> Human Rights Hub
>>> Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
>>> Court of India
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> Rahul Bajaj
> Attorney, Ira Law
> Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
> Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
> Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
> Human Rights Hub
> Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
> Court of India
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com

  

From montascarlos267 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 26 15:44:09 2023
From: montascarlos267 at gmail.com (carlos Montas)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 10:44:09 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Fwd: EEOC,
 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR ISSUE DISABILITY RESOURCE GUIDE
References: <16829301.33429@updates.eeoc.gov>
Message-ID: <223DB585-C9D2-4ADB-AA62-569F451EB11F@gmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230926/50e077cd/attachment-0004.htm>

From elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com  Wed Sep 27 00:11:18 2023
From: elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com (elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:11:18 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Inquiry Regarding Legal Research in Law School and the
 Profession Generally
Message-ID: <000801d9f0d7$23e89420$6bb9bc60$@gmail.com>

Hello all,

 

I am seeking advice, sent directly to me at elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com
<mailto:elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com> , regarding the best ways to conduct
legal research as a law student.

 

Further, I am curious as to what legal research looks like as an element of
employment post-law school.

 

I appreciate any thoughts you can offer.

 

Best,

Elizabeth


From james.garret.mooney at gmail.com  Wed Sep 27 09:47:37 2023
From: james.garret.mooney at gmail.com (James Garret Mooney)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 05:47:37 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Inquiry Regarding Legal Research in Law School and
 the Profession Generally
In-Reply-To: <000801d9f0d7$23e89420$6bb9bc60$@gmail.com>
References: <000801d9f0d7$23e89420$6bb9bc60$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <655500E2-510C-47A4-B3BA-A38D85F85121@gmail.com>

When I conduct research now as a professional, I use those law school briefs our professors used to make us fill out when doing the reading for homework. It sounds crazy, but briefing  an issue that an opinion discusses helps me create an outline for when I need to write. Once  I have my outline created, I tend to then go back to the court opinion, and grab the citations I need or copythe portions from the opinion. I do all of this in word. As a lawyer legal research is not going to go away. I’m a prosecutor in Baltimore city . When an issue arises that needs research, you just need to go and do it. Some jobs require more research than others. Answering when and how much research you will have to do is a very loaded question and a number cannot be put to it. 

> On Sep 26, 2023, at 8:12 PM, Elizabeth Rouse via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> 
> 
> I am seeking advice, sent directly to me at elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com
> <mailto:elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com> , regarding the best ways to conduct
> legal research as a law student.
> 
> 
> 
> Further, I am curious as to what legal research looks like as an element of
> employment post-law school.
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate any thoughts you can offer.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Elizabeth
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/james.garret.mooney%40gmail.com


From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Wed Sep 27 17:32:51 2023
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 17:32:51 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] New bill would beef up accessibility reporting
 requirements for agencies - Government Executive - September 27, 2023
In-Reply-To: <SA1PR09MB115636D42EABB20AAAC6081C895C2A@SA1PR09MB11563.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA1PR09MB115636D42EABB20AAAC6081C895C2A@SA1PR09MB11563.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SA9PR09MB545436EF1908F6F2C6EE5501F9C2A@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Ronza and Al are quoted in the below article.

https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2023/09/new-bill-would-beef-accessibility-reporting-requirements-agencies/390641/
New bill would beef up accessibility reporting requirements for agencies
By Natalie Alms
Government Executive
September 27, 2023

Agency and department heads would be required to appoint "Section 508 compliance officers" to ensure they meet accessibility mandates.
Sen. Bob Casey, D-Pa, chair of the Senate Committee on Aging, introduced a new proposal last week meant to improve the accessibility of federal websites and IT.
The proposal, called the Federal Agency Accessibility Compliance Act, "will bolster the role of federal Section 508 compliance officers in federal agencies, require agency and department heads to personally certify... that their organization's technology is accessible and to post plans and timelines if their agency technology is not accessible," Casey said during a Senate Aging Committee hearing on government tech accessibility on Sept. 21.
Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act requires federal IT to be accessible for people with disabilities - a group that makes up about 13% of the noninstitutionalized U.S. population, according to 2019 Census data.
Currently, agencies have Section 508 programs and coordinators, required by a 2013 Office of Management and Budget memo, according to a Congressional Research Service report, but Casey's  proposal would create new Section 508 compliance officers responsible for ensuring that their agencies meet the law's standards.
In February, the Department of Justice issued its first legally-mandated report on 508 compliance in federal agencies since 2012 - at the urging of Casey and other senators - which found that 14% of CFO Act agencies' web pages weren't accessible. Inside government agencies, the conformance rate of intranet pages is even more dismal at only 41%. Among the government's most-downloaded files, 80% of the PDFs were not accessible.The report also outlined problems with agency accessibility testing and staffing issues.
The bill, co-sponsored by four Democrats and Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., is the latest from Casey in a years-long focus on government accessibility online, such as a recent law requiring the Department of Veterans Affairs to report to Congress on website accessibility.
More recently, Casey also introduced a bill that would stand up an advisory committee for accessibility at VA. He and other lawmakers, including ranking member of the committee Mike Braun, R-Ind., have also requested that the Government Accountability Office report on agencies' 508 compliance.
"These bills are common sense legislation designed to ensure federal government services, programs and communications are accessible to all Americans," said Casey.
Braun agreed that the senators have "heard from many constituents that the federal government has not done a good job at complying, far too often, leaving people with disabilities behind," although he cautioned that "we must ensure that states do not lose the flexibility they need to continue to introduce programs and mechanisms that work best for their unique communities," he said.
The Justice Department issued proposed rulemaking on accessibility in state and local governments under the Americans with Disabilities Act in August. Although Braun didn't reference that rulemaking directly, he did say that issues with accessibility on the federal level "ought to give us pause before we try to maybe do more through the federal government."
Several witnesses, meanwhile, said that standards for accessibility would be helpful.
On the federal level, new digital experience guidance issued by OMB includes requirements for accessibility, including directing agencies to use the same standards referenced in the proposed DOJ rule: the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines by the World Wide Web Consortium.
"WCAG is an industry standard. Having WCAG as the standard for government websites will provide a clear standard for those responsible for creating and overseeing websites and technology," Chris Westbook, a web accessibility engineer for Allyant who is also blind, said in his written testimony.
The new guidance also directs agencies to use accessibility testing - both manual and automated - include people with disabilities in user research and maintain a feedback mechanism for people to contact the government if they're having accessibility problems online.
Ronza Othman, president of the National Association of Blind Government Employees, told senators that a lack of prioritization is one of the biggest contributors to non-compliance in federal agencies, as well as a lack of knowledge and education.
For people with disabilities, the impact is felt in how they access government information and services.
"Imagine not being able to file your local taxes online. This is the situation I face simply because I have a disability," said Westbook. "When I went to the county website to pay my taxes online, I couldn't because I couldn't find the button used to submit the form. This ultimately forced me to seek sighted assistance to perform a task that everyone else can perform independently."
"Government websites must be accessible so that all constituents at all levels of government have access to programs, services and information," he said.




From rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 29 08:28:19 2023
From: rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com (Rahul Bajaj)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:58:19 +0530
Subject: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for
 litigation work
In-Reply-To: <294196742.3447945.1695652813017@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CADFycPY96eVyB4y8EOmo+7GnV6ap1njJ13ExD93VHnqdcCnyTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A522FF5A-C92F-4024-9668-755108ED49F1@yahoo.com>
 <KL1PR0601MB5726B940392B9E9D2609795BFDFDA@KL1PR0601MB5726.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <294196742.3447945.1695652813017@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CADFycPYRe71Ww9Rb6OTFW7PQNMGyeVTFKESuDGy732e5htAjyg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

On some reflection, I have identified the following action items for me:
1. before a meeting, aska a colleague what is on the agenda, to ensure
better preparedness, given inability to shuffle pages and documents on the
fly.
2. Figure out asap how to navigate through bookmarks in adobe reader, as
many court files do not work with bookworm - my pdf reader of choice.
3. articulate the difficulty being faced in accessing information without
feeling guilty and apologetic about it or feeling that this will lower the
client or senior's confidence in you, such that they will not want to work
with you. important to convey your problems and needs that are genuine,
rather than letting a feeling of inadequacy overpower you.
4. Make the intern that I am working with make a table for me of the
documents in a given file - annexure number, page number, accessible or
not, as soon as I am seized of a matter.


How do these sound? Any other ideas?
Rahul

On Mon, 25 Sept 2023 at 20:10, James T. Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Rahul,
> That's helpful, and yes, those are significant differences. My only
> advice, other than getting a Braille display so you can read aloud from
> longer documents, is to push your firm as hard as necessary to get *all*
> documents in a format you can read. They can't critique you for not being
> prepared on the one hand and fail to provide you the documents that
> everyone else has on the other. If documents are handwritten, then they
> should provide a qualified reader who can read aloud from them on command
> for you. If they're in electronic format and/or hardcopy, then they can be
> converted into accessible format with readily available, off-the-shelf
> technology.
> Best of luck; it sounds like you're in a very challenging environment!
> James
>
> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 10:22:01 AM EDT, Rahul Bajaj <
> rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> James, thank you. Litigation here is practised very differently. Arguments
> or not time bound. So lawyers spend hours arguing their cases and read out
> extracts. My firm is willing to be inclusive to the extent necessary.
> Although they are bit reluctant and have to be pushed. I need to figure out
> a system for being better prepared for cases. Let me know your thoughts on
> my reply to the message by San Ho.
>
> Sent from Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 22, 2023 6:06:28 PM
> *To:* Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> *Cc:* Rahul Bajaj <rahul.bajaj1038 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [blindLaw] request for advice to be better prepared for
> litigation work
>
> Rahul,
> If you are arguing in hearings,you need to know the record, or at least
> the parts relevant to the hearing, extremely well. Ideally, you can direct
> the court to your best evidence very quickly.  This might and often does
> require many hours of preparation for a few minutes of action. I’m not sure
> how things work in India, but it is very rare for lawyers in the US to read
> aloud from anything during a hearing. If a lawyer were to do so, the judge
> would likely cut them off with a sharp admonition to stop wasting time.
> Also, if any important document in the record is inaccessible, priority
> No. 1 needs to be making it accessible. This burden should be on your firm,
> not you, but realistically, you will have to do some extra work to ensure
> that this happens. If your firm expects you to handle hearings but can’t or
> won’t make most if not all record documents accessible, then that is a
> serious problem and could sabotage your career
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 22, 2023, at 7:44 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > thanks, sanho. Here is what I read currently:
> > 1. If it is a suit, I read the plaint where we are for the defendant.
> > 2. If it is an appeal where we are for the appellee, I read the appeal
> from
> > the appellant.
> > 3. I read the orders to date, if it is a matter in which hearings have
> > taken place before.
> > 4. if we have filed a written statement or a response, I read that.
> >
> > What I do not read:
> > 1. annexures accompanying the pleadings. because of 2 reasons: I have
> > difficulty figuring out which ones to zero in on and a large number of
> them
> > are quite inaccessible and bulky. so I tend to shy away from reading
> them.
> > during arguments, I find it hard to follow when the lawyer from the other
> > side is reading a particular annexure and I have not read it before. this
> > also ahppens in meetings with senior lawyers and case discussions. it is
> my
> > biggest weakness.
> > 2. If it is an appeal, I do not read pleadings in the courts below which
> I
> > can do if they are accessible or make them accessible if not.
> > 3. I don't bookmark properly and pinpoint key pieces of info in a quickly
> > retrievable format.
> >
> > Rahul
> >
> >> On Fri, 22 Sept 2023 at 16:57, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw <
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Good morning,
> >>
> >> It's hard to say what you could be doing more without knowing what
> you're
> >> doing already. What's your current process?
> >>
> >> Warmth,
> >> Sanho
> >>
> >>> On Sep 22, 2023, at 3:01 AM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw <
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Good afternoon from New Delhi. I have joined the bar in New Delhi and
> >> have
> >>> been in active legal practice for around 14 months, in the areas of
> >>> intellectual property law and disability rights law. The feedback that
> I
> >>> got from the law firm where I work, albeit expressed subtly, is that I
> >>> should prepare better for matters, to be able to provide valuable
> inputs
> >> in
> >>> an ongoing conference or hearing. they said that asking for time to
> look
> >>> for the relevant information may just result in the hearing or meeting
> >>> becoming ineffective, and therefore I do have the unfair onus of going
> >> the
> >>> extra mile.
> >>>
> >>> If you have 5 minutes, could you outline  what I could be doing more? I
> >>> have an intern who has been appointed specifically to address my
> needs. I
> >>> need to develop a system to be more practically useful in hearings and
> >>> conferences.
> >>>
> >>> Rahul
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> --
> >>> Rahul Bajaj
> >>> Attorney, Ira Law
> >>> Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
> >>> Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
> >>> Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
> >>> Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities,
> Oxford
> >>> Human Rights Hub
> >>> Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
> >>> Court of India
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> BlindLaw mailing list
> >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> BlindLaw:
> >>>
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BlindLaw mailing list
> >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> BlindLaw:
> >>
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rahul.bajaj1038%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Rahul Bajaj
> > Attorney, Ira Law
> > Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
> > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
> > Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
> > Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
> > Human Rights Hub
> > Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
> > Court of India
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com
>
>

-- 
--
Rahul Bajaj
Attorney, Ira Law
Senior Associate Fellow, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy
Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018), University of Oxford
Co-Founder, Mission Accessibility
Special Correspondent on the rights of persons with disabilities, Oxford
Human Rights Hub
Coordinator of the working group on accessibility, e-Committee, Supreme
Court of India

From tim at timeldermusic.com  Fri Sep 29 20:37:06 2023
From: tim at timeldermusic.com (tim at timeldermusic.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:37:06 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] New bill would beef up accessibility reporting
 requirements for agencies - Government Executive - September 27, 2023
In-Reply-To: <SA9PR09MB545436EF1908F6F2C6EE5501F9C2A@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA1PR09MB115636D42EABB20AAAC6081C895C2A@SA1PR09MB11563.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
 <SA9PR09MB545436EF1908F6F2C6EE5501F9C2A@SA9PR09MB5454.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <030001d9f314$b833fa90$289befb0$@timeldermusic.com>

Nice.  Could we amend the bill to add a cause of action for individuals with
disabilities to go after government contractors that misrepresent the
compliance of their products sold to the government?  I'm concerned that
this approach is solving for only one half of the problem.  How often does
the government really have any control over whether the technology complies
other than asking for it in the contract?



-----Original Message-----
From: Nightingale, Noel <Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 10:33 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindLaw] New bill would beef up accessibility reporting
requirements for agencies - Government Executive - September 27, 2023

Ronza and Al are quoted in the below article.

https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2023/09/new-bill-would-beef-accessibility-
reporting-requirements-agencies/390641/
New bill would beef up accessibility reporting requirements for agencies By
Natalie Alms Government Executive September 27, 2023

Agency and department heads would be required to appoint "Section 508
compliance officers" to ensure they meet accessibility mandates.
Sen. Bob Casey, D-Pa, chair of the Senate Committee on Aging, introduced a
new proposal last week meant to improve the accessibility of federal
websites and IT.
The proposal, called the Federal Agency Accessibility Compliance Act, "will
bolster the role of federal Section 508 compliance officers in federal
agencies, require agency and department heads to personally certify... that
their organization's technology is accessible and to post plans and
timelines if their agency technology is not accessible," Casey said during a
Senate Aging Committee hearing on government tech accessibility on Sept. 21.
Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act requires federal IT to be accessible
for people with disabilities - a group that makes up about 13% of the
noninstitutionalized U.S. population, according to 2019 Census data.
Currently, agencies have Section 508 programs and coordinators, required by
a 2013 Office of Management and Budget memo, according to a Congressional
Research Service report, but Casey's  proposal would create new Section 508
compliance officers responsible for ensuring that their agencies meet the
law's standards.
In February, the Department of Justice issued its first legally-mandated
report on 508 compliance in federal agencies since 2012 - at the urging of
Casey and other senators - which found that 14% of CFO Act agencies' web
pages weren't accessible. Inside government agencies, the conformance rate
of intranet pages is even more dismal at only 41%. Among the government's
most-downloaded files, 80% of the PDFs were not accessible.The report also
outlined problems with agency accessibility testing and staffing issues.
The bill, co-sponsored by four Democrats and Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., is
the latest from Casey in a years-long focus on government accessibility
online, such as a recent law requiring the Department of Veterans Affairs to
report to Congress on website accessibility.
More recently, Casey also introduced a bill that would stand up an advisory
committee for accessibility at VA. He and other lawmakers, including ranking
member of the committee Mike Braun, R-Ind., have also requested that the
Government Accountability Office report on agencies' 508 compliance.
"These bills are common sense legislation designed to ensure federal
government services, programs and communications are accessible to all
Americans," said Casey.
Braun agreed that the senators have "heard from many constituents that the
federal government has not done a good job at complying, far too often,
leaving people with disabilities behind," although he cautioned that "we
must ensure that states do not lose the flexibility they need to continue to
introduce programs and mechanisms that work best for their unique
communities," he said.
The Justice Department issued proposed rulemaking on accessibility in state
and local governments under the Americans with Disabilities Act in August.
Although Braun didn't reference that rulemaking directly, he did say that
issues with accessibility on the federal level "ought to give us pause
before we try to maybe do more through the federal government."
Several witnesses, meanwhile, said that standards for accessibility would be
helpful.
On the federal level, new digital experience guidance issued by OMB includes
requirements for accessibility, including directing agencies to use the same
standards referenced in the proposed DOJ rule: the Web Content Accessibility
Guidelines by the World Wide Web Consortium.
"WCAG is an industry standard. Having WCAG as the standard for government
websites will provide a clear standard for those responsible for creating
and overseeing websites and technology," Chris Westbook, a web accessibility
engineer for Allyant who is also blind, said in his written testimony.
The new guidance also directs agencies to use accessibility testing - both
manual and automated - include people with disabilities in user research and
maintain a feedback mechanism for people to contact the government if
they're having accessibility problems online.
Ronza Othman, president of the National Association of Blind Government
Employees, told senators that a lack of prioritization is one of the biggest
contributors to non-compliance in federal agencies, as well as a lack of
knowledge and education.
For people with disabilities, the impact is felt in how they access
government information and services.
"Imagine not being able to file your local taxes online. This is the
situation I face simply because I have a disability," said Westbook. "When I
went to the county website to pay my taxes online, I couldn't because I
couldn't find the button used to submit the form. This ultimately forced me
to seek sighted assistance to perform a task that everyone else can perform
independently."
"Government websites must be accessible so that all constituents at all
levels of government have access to programs, services and information," he
said.







From montascarlos267 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 30 01:47:44 2023
From: montascarlos267 at gmail.com (carlos Montas)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 20:47:44 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Fwd: EEOC Announces Year-End Litigation Round-Up for
 Fiscal Year 2023
References: <16830633.83871@updates.eeoc.gov>
Message-ID: <FAED6AE0-9AA9-4182-9258-B1548EA4503A@gmail.com>

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From natasha.ishaq2001 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 30 15:34:42 2023
From: natasha.ishaq2001 at gmail.com (Natasha Ishaq)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 11:34:42 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Potential Discrimination: Trouble with LSAC
Message-ID: <F30370B5-40FE-4338-9649-DB25A2A8B3BC@gmail.com>

Hello All, 

I am having some problems with LSAC and am starting to think that there is an element of discriminatory practice involved. 

As of now, I am scheduled to take the LSATs on October 16th. There are four practice exams available for free through LawHub, which registered test takers an access through their LSAC accounts. I heard that LSAC will provide Brailel copies of these tests upon request. During the summer, I called LSAC 2-3 times requesting the material and they told me that I would first have to be approved for my testing accommodations. I received my accommodations letter this past Monday night. I immediately reached out to LSAC’s accommodations team to request the Braille practice exams. They told me that it is too late for them to provide me with the material, as it takes 1-2 weeks to prepare. Upon further questioning from me, they proceeded to to tell me that I did not actually have to wait for my accommodations to be approved to access Braille preparation materials. This basically means that i was given inaccurate information over the summer. LSAC then offered me the opportunity to change my test date free of charge so that they could provide me with Braille preparation material. I am inclined to take the offer, because I do want to be able to do a run through of the exam in Braille to best simulate my experience on test day. 

When I indicated that I would indeed like to have the Braille preparation material, they proceeded to tell me that I would first have to purchase a preparation book, even though I am asking for a Braille copy of an exam that is made available to everyone for free via our LSAC accounts.What I am failing to understand is this: Why should I have to pay for material that other registered test takers are able to access for free? 

After numerous back and forth communication through email, I am oin to attempt to reach the LSAC accommodations team by phone in hopes that verbal communication will be able ot settle the matter entirely. 

If anyone is able to offer insight or assist me in attempting to resolve this matter, I would be incredibly grateful. 

Thank you.

Best,
Natasha 

From elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com  Sat Sep 30 15:53:37 2023
From: elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com (Elizabeth Rouse)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:53:37 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Potential Discrimination: Trouble with LSAC
In-Reply-To: <F30370B5-40FE-4338-9649-DB25A2A8B3BC@gmail.com>
References: <F30370B5-40FE-4338-9649-DB25A2A8B3BC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANGwUJNtQ09a-AwBBvSoxcTsk6uG7pzFMgS2zv_cC0CNxLw2LQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

One avenue you could explore is reaching out to LSAC's Chief Diversity
Officer Angela Winfield at
awinfield at lsac.org.

I'm not sure she'll have all the answers, but she could point you in the
right direction.

Best of luck with the process!
Elizabeth


Elizabeth Rouse, She/her/hers
Board Member | National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL)
blindlawyers.net
Board Member | Performing Arts Division
nfb-pad.org
Elizabethrouse.nfb at gmail.com
(563) 210-1854
“If you can see yourself as an artist, and you can see that your life is
your own creation, then why not create the most beautiful story for
yourself?” - Miguel Ruiz


On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 10:36 AM Natasha Ishaq via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I am having some problems with LSAC and am starting to think that there is
> an element of discriminatory practice involved.
>
> As of now, I am scheduled to take the LSATs on October 16th. There are
> four practice exams available for free through LawHub, which registered
> test takers an access through their LSAC accounts. I heard that LSAC will
> provide Brailel copies of these tests upon request. During the summer, I
> called LSAC 2-3 times requesting the material and they told me that I would
> first have to be approved for my testing accommodations. I received my
> accommodations letter this past Monday night. I immediately reached out to
> LSAC’s accommodations team to request the Braille practice exams. They told
> me that it is too late for them to provide me with the material, as it
> takes 1-2 weeks to prepare. Upon further questioning from me, they
> proceeded to to tell me that I did not actually have to wait for my
> accommodations to be approved to access Braille preparation materials. This
> basically means that i was given inaccurate information over the summer.
> LSAC then offered me the opportunity to change my test date free of charge
> so that they could provide me with Braille preparation material. I am
> inclined to take the offer, because I do want to be able to do a run
> through of the exam in Braille to best simulate my experience on test day.
>
> When I indicated that I would indeed like to have the Braille preparation
> material, they proceeded to tell me that I would first have to purchase a
> preparation book, even though I am asking for a Braille copy of an exam
> that is made available to everyone for free via our LSAC accounts.What I am
> failing to understand is this: Why should I have to pay for material that
> other registered test takers are able to access for free?
>
> After numerous back and forth communication through email, I am oin to
> attempt to reach the LSAC accommodations team by phone in hopes that verbal
> communication will be able ot settle the matter entirely.
>
> If anyone is able to offer insight or assist me in attempting to resolve
> this matter, I would be incredibly grateful.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Best,
> Natasha
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/elizabethrouse.nfb%40gmail.com
>

From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 30 16:02:08 2023
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 12:02:08 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Potential Discrimination: Trouble with LSAC
In-Reply-To: <F30370B5-40FE-4338-9649-DB25A2A8B3BC@gmail.com>
References: <F30370B5-40FE-4338-9649-DB25A2A8B3BC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27639ACA-0991-4839-9B75-65998C4DD57C@yahoo.com>

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