From sbadillo100 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  1 13:54:05 2024
From: sbadillo100 at gmail.com (S B)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2024 09:54:05 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents
Message-ID: <CACP-bbUobFripObW4_B+YWO7=pBJLJH98BbayfPsCL4CUKgSQA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, I have a question about reading printed materials. If you are handed
paper material that is either typed or hand written, Is  there a best way
to read  these materials with some kind of scanner or app? I personally
have not found an app on the iphone that has really done a good job to the
point whre I would trust it without it becoming a battle to make sure it
read things correctly. If anyone has any recommendations for apps, other
equipment or methods, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance,
Sarah

From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu  Thu Aug  1 14:10:56 2024
From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2024 10:10:56 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents
In-Reply-To: <CACP-bbUobFripObW4_B+YWO7=pBJLJH98BbayfPsCL4CUKgSQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACP-bbUobFripObW4_B+YWO7=pBJLJH98BbayfPsCL4CUKgSQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FD9C4BC6-D03D-48AE-96D1-AED2DDC0D63D@jd16.law.harvard.edu>

Would also be interested in hearing suggestions. Thus far, I have had to rely on other personnel to either read it to me or write it out in an email. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 1, 2024, at 9:55 AM, S B via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello, I have a question about reading printed materials. If you are handed
> paper material that is either typed or hand written, Is  there a best way
> to read  these materials with some kind of scanner or app? I personally
> have not found an app on the iphone that has really done a good job to the
> point whre I would trust it without it becoming a battle to make sure it
> read things correctly. If anyone has any recommendations for apps, other
> equipment or methods, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Thu Aug  1 17:23:13 2024
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie A. Orozco)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2024 13:23:13 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents
In-Reply-To: <CACP-bbUobFripObW4_B+YWO7=pBJLJH98BbayfPsCL4CUKgSQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACP-bbUobFripObW4_B+YWO7=pBJLJH98BbayfPsCL4CUKgSQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004801dae437$7db1a7e0$7914f7a0$@gmail.com>

In my limited experience, this is one of the greatest access challenges. I
suppose AI could read it, but in actual legal practice, there will be
understandable limits to using AI due to confidentiality concerns. 

If the document is typed and there is no hand writing on it, you can use OCR
software without issues, but if there is hand writing on the document, OCR
will usually fail to process it well. For these situations, I have asked for
a reader to either read the document to me so I could take my own notes on
it or type up the document and send it to me. 

Hope this helps,

Julie


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of S B via BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2024 9:54 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: S B <sbadillo100 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents

Hello, I have a question about reading printed materials. If you are handed
paper material that is either typed or hand written, Is  there a best way to
read  these materials with some kind of scanner or app? I personally have
not found an app on the iphone that has really done a good job to the point
whre I would trust it without it becoming a battle to make sure it read
things correctly. If anyone has any recommendations for apps, other
equipment or methods, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance,
Sarah _______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com



From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au  Thu Aug  1 20:11:38 2024
From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2024 20:11:38 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents
In-Reply-To: <004801dae437$7db1a7e0$7914f7a0$@gmail.com>
References: <CACP-bbUobFripObW4_B+YWO7=pBJLJH98BbayfPsCL4CUKgSQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <004801dae437$7db1a7e0$7914f7a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SYYP282MB115256944486997E1237E8A098B22@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

When I practiced I shared a sighted secretary.  By the time I worked on files the documents were digital and I asked that the secretary would look over the digital version and spot any hand writing on it. if the hand writing was just words, type them into a comment box.  If it was a drawing or something, then I asked another lawyer just in case.  		
 


Professor Paul Harpur OAM   
BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
The University of Queensland Law School
(TEQSA PRV12080)  

Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
Australian Research Council Future Fellow
Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel 

"Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive".  Paul Harpur, 'Universities as Disability Champions of Change' TEDx.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 3:23 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Julie A. Orozco <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents

In my limited experience, this is one of the greatest access challenges. I suppose AI could read it, but in actual legal practice, there will be understandable limits to using AI due to confidentiality concerns. 

If the document is typed and there is no hand writing on it, you can use OCR software without issues, but if there is hand writing on the document, OCR will usually fail to process it well. For these situations, I have asked for a reader to either read the document to me so I could take my own notes on it or type up the document and send it to me. 

Hope this helps,

Julie


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of S B via BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2024 9:54 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: S B <sbadillo100 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents

Hello, I have a question about reading printed materials. If you are handed paper material that is either typed or hand written, Is  there a best way to read  these materials with some kind of scanner or app? I personally have not found an app on the iphone that has really done a good job to the point whre I would trust it without it becoming a battle to make sure it read things correctly. If anyone has any recommendations for apps, other equipment or methods, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Sarah _______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com


From looking_4truth at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  2 06:08:12 2024
From: looking_4truth at yahoo.com (Josiah Jackson)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 06:08:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents
In-Reply-To: <SYYP282MB115256944486997E1237E8A098B22@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CACP-bbUobFripObW4_B+YWO7=pBJLJH98BbayfPsCL4CUKgSQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <004801dae437$7db1a7e0$7914f7a0$@gmail.com>
 <SYYP282MB115256944486997E1237E8A098B22@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <1489631206.1513493.1722578892910@mail.yahoo.com>

I’ve had good results using the “Seeing AI” app. With hand writing once you have what you want on your screen, you click and then it scans it processes online and tells you what’s on it. I’ve never done anything except an English, so I don’t know if that would be challenging being in a language, other than Americanized English. That said, I use it on a regular basis, and it was a benefit to me daily when my child was still in high school, and I would get notes home from the teachers.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, August 1, 2024, 3:13 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

When I practiced I shared a sighted secretary.  By the time I worked on files the documents were digital and I asked that the secretary would look over the digital version and spot any hand writing on it. if the hand writing was just words, type them into a comment box.  If it was a drawing or something, then I asked another lawyer just in case.          
 


Professor Paul Harpur OAM   
BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
The University of Queensland Law School
(TEQSA PRV12080)  

Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
Australian Research Council Future Fellow
Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel 

"Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive".  Paul Harpur, 'Universities as Disability Champions of Change' TEDx.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie A. Orozco via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 3:23 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Julie A. Orozco <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents

In my limited experience, this is one of the greatest access challenges. I suppose AI could read it, but in actual legal practice, there will be understandable limits to using AI due to confidentiality concerns. 

If the document is typed and there is no hand writing on it, you can use OCR software without issues, but if there is hand writing on the document, OCR will usually fail to process it well. For these situations, I have asked for a reader to either read the document to me so I could take my own notes on it or type up the document and send it to me. 

Hope this helps,

Julie


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of S B via BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2024 9:54 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: S B <sbadillo100 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] reading hand written documents

Hello, I have a question about reading printed materials. If you are handed paper material that is either typed or hand written, Is  there a best way to read  these materials with some kind of scanner or app? I personally have not found an app on the iphone that has really done a good job to the point whre I would trust it without it becoming a battle to make sure it read things correctly. If anyone has any recommendations for apps, other equipment or methods, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Sarah _______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/looking_4truth%40yahoo.com




From abagais1 at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  2 23:06:28 2024
From: abagais1 at hotmail.com (Abdulrahman Bagais)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 23:06:28 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job
 at K&E
In-Reply-To: <B9DB8A0E-6B47-431C-A3FF-94626A486740@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
References: <AS8P250MB0008BCC92B4A7E92353598D880B12@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <B9DB8A0E-6B47-431C-A3FF-94626A486740@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <AS8P250MB0008B8289915153A88F97DC080B32@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Many thanks for your email and offering your support, derek.

It is so good to connect with you and other folks here in BlindLaw from various legal backgrounds, it is such a great thing to find people who share the same passion and challenges!

The links you’ve sent are really good timing, I am in the process of replacing NVDA by JAWS.

I will contact you out of the list and once again, greatly appreciate your support.

Best Regards,
Abdulrahman


From: Derek Manners <dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2024 3:12 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job at K&E

Hi Abdulrahman,

I am an attorney at Dechert in Washington DC. Nice to meet you.  From what I understand, Jaws 18 has Vocalizer Expressive Voices Version 2, which supports Arabic.

I’ve included a couple of links below that explain how to access languages on Jaws and that shows Jaws 18 purportedly supports Arabic.

https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/Synthesizers

Languages with JAWS on the Internet<https://www.freedomscientific.com/SurfsUp/Languages.htm>
freedomscientific.com<https://www.freedomscientific.com/SurfsUp/Languages.htm>
[favicon.ico]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/SurfsUp/Languages.htm>

Feel free to reach out to me directly if you have other accessibility questions. Having navigated big law for 8 years, I’ve developed some tricks that work for me at least.

Best regards
Derek

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:16 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
Many thanks for your email and kind words, Tai.

Indeed, I've heard the same about JAWS from other VI lawyers in the UK, but since NVDA is the one used by nearly all blind people here in Saudi, I have been using it for a long time, and when decided to try JAWS I haven't find information about how can it work with bilingual English/Arabic voices, and as I am supposed to work in both languages at Kirkland, I requested NVDA because it's the one I know it can work in both languages and switch between them automatically. I will contact JAWS to check if it works in both languages.

Does anyone have an idea whether JAWS can be also used with English/Arabic bilingual voices or not?

Best Regards,
Abdulrahman

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2024 11:29 PM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com<mailto:tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job at K&E

Abdul,
Welcome to the list and congratulations on your new role as an associate for Kirkland & Ellis. Most attorneys who use screen readers are using JAWS for Windows due to its advanced handling of larger documents, arguably more robust feature set, and the variety of voices and languages supported. Its commands are quite similar to those of NVDA. I recommend you give it some consideration. It is something your firm should be able to purchase for you.
Tai


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2024 3:21 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com<mailto:abagais1 at hotmail.com>>
Subject: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job at K&E

Hi everyone,


I hope you are all well!


I am Abdulrahman Bagais, a totally blind legal practitioner from Saudi Arabia. I am very pleased to join the Blind Lawyers and find a community for visually impaired lawyers.


After nearly two years in my role as a legal trainee at Zahid Group, I have started a new role as a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis - Riyadh Office a month ago. As you can imagine, shifting to the private practice at a global law firm can be a bit challenging in the outset, there are a couple of systems used at K&E that I did not used to deal with in my previous role, the office is fairly newly established, so it takes some time to set up all the needed software and technologies and can be difficult to get accessible training and orientation.


I am writing generally to check if anyone has been in the same position and can help with any tips/advice, and also to ask about the screen reader that I use (NVDA), is there anyone in the group, by any chance, using/has used Acapela bilingual English/Arabic voices that can be used with NVDA? The IT team struggling to install a good quality version of bilingual English/Arabic version, also I have found it really difficult and not efficient to use the screen reader with large documents even if it's word as it becomes very slow, anyone can help with this issue?


If anyone has been through the same challenges, please feel free to send me a message out of the group to discuss it further and your support will be much appreciated.


Many thanks!


Best Regards,

Abdul
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tai.tomasi8%40gmail.co
m


_______________________________________________
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BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotmail.com

_______________________________________________
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BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
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From rmarrowood12 at me.com  Fri Aug  2 23:31:26 2024
From: rmarrowood12 at me.com (Rebecca Arrowood)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 18:31:26 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job
 at K&E
In-Reply-To: <AS8P250MB0008B8289915153A88F97DC080B32@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AS8P250MB0008B8289915153A88F97DC080B32@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <65E45283-382E-4127-BAAD-93BCBD45C618@me.com>


Hi AbdulrahmaN,

I am also happy to connect off-line. I just spent my summer with a large law firm in Boston and would be happy to talk about some of the solutions as well as challenges I encountered.
Best,
Rebecca Arrowood


> On Aug 2, 2024, at 6:07 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Many thanks for your email and offering your support, derek.
> 
> It is so good to connect with you and other folks here in BlindLaw from various legal backgrounds, it is such a great thing to find people who share the same passion and challenges!
> 
> The links you’ve sent are really good timing, I am in the process of replacing NVDA by JAWS.
> 
> I will contact you out of the list and once again, greatly appreciate your support.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Abdulrahman
> 
> 
> From: Derek Manners <dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2024 3:12 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job at K&E
> 
> Hi Abdulrahman,
> 
> I am an attorney at Dechert in Washington DC. Nice to meet you.  From what I understand, Jaws 18 has Vocalizer Expressive Voices Version 2, which supports Arabic.
> 
> I’ve included a couple of links below that explain how to access languages on Jaws and that shows Jaws 18 purportedly supports Arabic.
> 
> https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/Synthesizers
> 
> Languages with JAWS on the Internet<https://www.freedomscientific.com/SurfsUp/Languages.htm>
> freedomscientific.com<https://www.freedomscientific.com/SurfsUp/Languages.htm>
> [favicon.ico]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/SurfsUp/Languages.htm>
> 
> Feel free to reach out to me directly if you have other accessibility questions. Having navigated big law for 8 years, I’ve developed some tricks that work for me at least.
> 
> Best regards
> Derek
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:16 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> Many thanks for your email and kind words, Tai.
> 
> Indeed, I've heard the same about JAWS from other VI lawyers in the UK, but since NVDA is the one used by nearly all blind people here in Saudi, I have been using it for a long time, and when decided to try JAWS I haven't find information about how can it work with bilingual English/Arabic voices, and as I am supposed to work in both languages at Kirkland, I requested NVDA because it's the one I know it can work in both languages and switch between them automatically. I will contact JAWS to check if it works in both languages.
> 
> Does anyone have an idea whether JAWS can be also used with English/Arabic bilingual voices or not?
> 
> Best Regards,
> Abdulrahman
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2024 11:29 PM
> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
> Cc: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com<mailto:tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job at K&E
> 
> Abdul,
> Welcome to the list and congratulations on your new role as an associate for Kirkland & Ellis. Most attorneys who use screen readers are using JAWS for Windows due to its advanced handling of larger documents, arguably more robust feature set, and the variety of voices and languages supported. Its commands are quite similar to those of NVDA. I recommend you give it some consideration. It is something your firm should be able to purchase for you.
> Tai
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2024 3:21 PM
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com<mailto:abagais1 at hotmail.com>>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job at K&E
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> I hope you are all well!
> 
> 
> I am Abdulrahman Bagais, a totally blind legal practitioner from Saudi Arabia. I am very pleased to join the Blind Lawyers and find a community for visually impaired lawyers.
> 
> 
> After nearly two years in my role as a legal trainee at Zahid Group, I have started a new role as a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis - Riyadh Office a month ago. As you can imagine, shifting to the private practice at a global law firm can be a bit challenging in the outset, there are a couple of systems used at K&E that I did not used to deal with in my previous role, the office is fairly newly established, so it takes some time to set up all the needed software and technologies and can be difficult to get accessible training and orientation.
> 
> 
> I am writing generally to check if anyone has been in the same position and can help with any tips/advice, and also to ask about the screen reader that I use (NVDA), is there anyone in the group, by any chance, using/has used Acapela bilingual English/Arabic voices that can be used with NVDA? The IT team struggling to install a good quality version of bilingual English/Arabic version, also I have found it really difficult and not efficient to use the screen reader with large documents even if it's word as it becomes very slow, anyone can help with this issue?
> 
> 
> If anyone has been through the same challenges, please feel free to send me a message out of the group to discuss it further and your support will be much appreciated.
> 
> 
> Many thanks!
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Abdul
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tai.tomasi8%40gmail.co
> m
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
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> 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rmarrowood12%40me.com
> <image001.png>


From abagais1 at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  2 23:42:34 2024
From: abagais1 at hotmail.com (Abdulrahman Bagais)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2024 23:42:34 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job
 at K&E
In-Reply-To: <65E45283-382E-4127-BAAD-93BCBD45C618@me.com>
References: <AS8P250MB0008B8289915153A88F97DC080B32@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <65E45283-382E-4127-BAAD-93BCBD45C618@me.com>
Message-ID: <AS8P250MB0008A6A6D50EC2C4491A49A480B32@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi Rebecca, 

Of course - it would be great to chat with you and know more how it went. I will send you a separate email.

Thank you,
Abdul



> On Aug 3, 2024, at 2:33 AM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi AbdulrahmaN,
> 
> I am also happy to connect off-line. I just spent my summer with a large law firm in Boston and would be happy to talk about some of the solutions as well as challenges I encountered.
> Best,
> Rebecca Arrowood
> 
> 
>> On Aug 2, 2024, at 6:07 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Many thanks for your email and offering your support, derek.
>> 
>> It is so good to connect with you and other folks here in BlindLaw from various legal backgrounds, it is such a great thing to find people who share the same passion and challenges!
>> 
>> The links you’ve sent are really good timing, I am in the process of replacing NVDA by JAWS.
>> 
>> I will contact you out of the list and once again, greatly appreciate your support.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Abdulrahman
>> 
>> 
>> From: Derek Manners <dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2024 3:12 AM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job at K&E
>> 
>> Hi Abdulrahman,
>> 
>> I am an attorney at Dechert in Washington DC. Nice to meet you.  From what I understand, Jaws 18 has Vocalizer Expressive Voices Version 2, which supports Arabic.
>> 
>> I’ve included a couple of links below that explain how to access languages on Jaws and that shows Jaws 18 purportedly supports Arabic.
>> 
>> https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/Synthesizers
>> 
>> Languages with JAWS on the Internet<https://www.freedomscientific.com/SurfsUp/Languages.htm>
>> freedomscientific.com<https://www.freedomscientific.com/SurfsUp/Languages.htm>
>> [favicon.ico]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/SurfsUp/Languages.htm>
>> 
>> Feel free to reach out to me directly if you have other accessibility questions. Having navigated big law for 8 years, I’ve developed some tricks that work for me at least.
>> 
>> Best regards
>> Derek
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:16 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>> Many thanks for your email and kind words, Tai.
>> 
>> Indeed, I've heard the same about JAWS from other VI lawyers in the UK, but since NVDA is the one used by nearly all blind people here in Saudi, I have been using it for a long time, and when decided to try JAWS I haven't find information about how can it work with bilingual English/Arabic voices, and as I am supposed to work in both languages at Kirkland, I requested NVDA because it's the one I know it can work in both languages and switch between them automatically. I will contact JAWS to check if it works in both languages.
>> 
>> Does anyone have an idea whether JAWS can be also used with English/Arabic bilingual voices or not?
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Abdulrahman
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2024 11:29 PM
>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
>> Cc: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com<mailto:tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job at K&E
>> 
>> Abdul,
>> Welcome to the list and congratulations on your new role as an associate for Kirkland & Ellis. Most attorneys who use screen readers are using JAWS for Windows due to its advanced handling of larger documents, arguably more robust feature set, and the variety of voices and languages supported. Its commands are quite similar to those of NVDA. I recommend you give it some consideration. It is something your firm should be able to purchase for you.
>> Tai
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2024 3:21 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com<mailto:abagais1 at hotmail.com>>
>> Subject: [blindLaw] Shifting to Private Practice and Starting a New Job at K&E
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> 
>> I hope you are all well!
>> 
>> 
>> I am Abdulrahman Bagais, a totally blind legal practitioner from Saudi Arabia. I am very pleased to join the Blind Lawyers and find a community for visually impaired lawyers.
>> 
>> 
>> After nearly two years in my role as a legal trainee at Zahid Group, I have started a new role as a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis - Riyadh Office a month ago. As you can imagine, shifting to the private practice at a global law firm can be a bit challenging in the outset, there are a couple of systems used at K&E that I did not used to deal with in my previous role, the office is fairly newly established, so it takes some time to set up all the needed software and technologies and can be difficult to get accessible training and orientation.
>> 
>> 
>> I am writing generally to check if anyone has been in the same position and can help with any tips/advice, and also to ask about the screen reader that I use (NVDA), is there anyone in the group, by any chance, using/has used Acapela bilingual English/Arabic voices that can be used with NVDA? The IT team struggling to install a good quality version of bilingual English/Arabic version, also I have found it really difficult and not efficient to use the screen reader with large documents even if it's word as it becomes very slow, anyone can help with this issue?
>> 
>> 
>> If anyone has been through the same challenges, please feel free to send me a message out of the group to discuss it further and your support will be much appreciated.
>> 
>> 
>> Many thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Abdul
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tai.tomasi8%40gmail.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rmarrowood12%40me.com
>> <image001.png>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotmail.com

From oduncan821 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  6 16:36:28 2024
From: oduncan821 at gmail.com (omar duncan)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 09:36:28 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library
Message-ID: <CAO+t8U1-rgYWoCnO6ONn+v_SCUeHNm-46w_bYMXGxHxyYpD4ug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all


In your school libraries have you guys  used jaws or any text to speech
program for that matter out loud? If not the library, then any public space
in the school dedicated to learning.


Is it allowed to use jaws outloud or even low enough to be a big bother to
others while loud enough to to avoid using headphones. Not a headphones fan


Best,

From nssulca at gmail.com  Tue Aug  6 16:39:11 2024
From: nssulca at gmail.com (Natalia Sulca)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 12:39:11 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library
In-Reply-To: <CAO+t8U1-rgYWoCnO6ONn+v_SCUeHNm-46w_bYMXGxHxyYpD4ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+t8U1-rgYWoCnO6ONn+v_SCUeHNm-46w_bYMXGxHxyYpD4ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00fa01dae81f$2aa641a0$7ff2c4e0$@gmail.com>

Nope. I'm blind and I'd be annoyed by it personally so always use ear buds
or headphones.
Natalia Sulca 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of omar duncan via
BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 12:36 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: omar duncan <oduncan821 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library

Hi all


In your school libraries have you guys  used jaws or any text to speech
program for that matter out loud? If not the library, then any public space
in the school dedicated to learning.


Is it allowed to use jaws outloud or even low enough to be a big bother to
others while loud enough to to avoid using headphones. Not a headphones fan


Best,
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nssulca%40gmail.com



From PChang at nfb.org  Tue Aug  6 16:47:10 2024
From: PChang at nfb.org (Chang, Patti)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 16:47:10 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library
In-Reply-To: <00fa01dae81f$2aa641a0$7ff2c4e0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAO+t8U1-rgYWoCnO6ONn+v_SCUeHNm-46w_bYMXGxHxyYpD4ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <00fa01dae81f$2aa641a0$7ff2c4e0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR17MB50877EB561E110D800D2A2E2D7BF2@SJ0PR17MB5087.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>

You should find headphones or earpods you like. Try bone conduction if you don't want traditional headphones. 

Thank you for making a difference.

Patti Chang Esq.
(m) 773-307-6440


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Natalia Sulca via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 11:39 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Natalia Sulca <nssulca at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library

Nope. I'm blind and I'd be annoyed by it personally so always use ear buds or headphones.
Natalia Sulca 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of omar duncan via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 12:36 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: omar duncan <oduncan821 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library

Hi all


In your school libraries have you guys  used jaws or any text to speech program for that matter out loud? If not the library, then any public space in the school dedicated to learning.


Is it allowed to use jaws outloud or even low enough to be a big bother to others while loud enough to to avoid using headphones. Not a headphones fan


Best,
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nssulca%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org

Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.

From looking_4truth at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  6 17:09:05 2024
From: looking_4truth at yahoo.com (looking_4truth at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 12:09:05 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR17MB50877EB561E110D800D2A2E2D7BF2@SJ0PR17MB5087.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAO+t8U1-rgYWoCnO6ONn+v_SCUeHNm-46w_bYMXGxHxyYpD4ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <00fa01dae81f$2aa641a0$7ff2c4e0$@gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR17MB50877EB561E110D800D2A2E2D7BF2@SJ0PR17MB5087.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <01b501dae823$637592c0$2a60b840$@yahoo.com>

My current school, (Missouri State University), has a disability office for
students such as ourselves that helps to ensure accommodations are made as
needed. The office has a dedicated study room with computers that have
adaptive software for use similar to those available in the computer labs,
just with Zoomtext & Jaws. I use this same room with my laptop allowing me
to not have to wear my headphones while I work/study. I encourage you to
speak with your school's disability office to ask about study space
available. If they do not already have a dedicated space, they may be able
to have one created. If the study room is in use by another student I will
try to get one of my libraries group study rooms that I can close the door
on so that I can work without having to put on my headphones/earbuds. I
personally get annoyed with having to wear my earbuds in class while I take
notes during lectures so, I am grateful that I have space at the disability
office and in the library that can be used. 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Chang, Patti via
BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 11:47 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Chang, Patti <PChang at nfb.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library

You should find headphones or earpods you like. Try bone conduction if you
don't want traditional headphones. 

Thank you for making a difference.

Patti Chang Esq.
(m) 773-307-6440


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Natalia Sulca via
BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 11:39 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Natalia Sulca <nssulca at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library

Nope. I'm blind and I'd be annoyed by it personally so always use ear buds
or headphones.
Natalia Sulca 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of omar duncan via
BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 12:36 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: omar duncan <oduncan821 at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library

Hi all


In your school libraries have you guys  used jaws or any text to speech
program for that matter out loud? If not the library, then any public space
in the school dedicated to learning.


Is it allowed to use jaws outloud or even low enough to be a big bother to
others while loud enough to to avoid using headphones. Not a headphones fan


Best,
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nssulca%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pchang%40nfb.org

Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is
confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
be unlawful.

This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a
Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for
your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and
compliance. To find out more visit the Mimecast website.
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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.com



From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Aug  6 17:18:36 2024
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 17:18:36 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Government website and forms
Message-ID: <BN0P221MB0382AC59601E74D5C9BB6BF0DCBF2@BN0P221MB0382.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Has the organization with lawyer division considered adding extra pressure on government agencies in America to make their websites and forms accessible?
I ask because it’s disheartening in 2024 when a blind person needs to interact with a housing Authority, where anything is set up or pass down through HUD the documents and forms are paper form or offered in limited capacity in a non-accessible digital format if the housing Authority chooses to send those after scanning them.
Thoughts



From mnowicki4 at icloud.com  Tue Aug  6 23:30:40 2024
From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 18:30:40 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Government website and forms
In-Reply-To: <BN0P221MB0382AC59601E74D5C9BB6BF0DCBF2@BN0P221MB0382.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BN0P221MB0382AC59601E74D5C9BB6BF0DCBF2@BN0P221MB0382.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <013e01dae858$a729c6f0$f57d54d0$@icloud.com>

I have encountered numerous inaccessible electronic forms on state public utility commission websites. I hope that the recently promulgated website accessibility regulations under Title II of the ADA will lead to meaningful improvements.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of wmodnl wmodnl via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 12:19 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Government website and forms

Has the organization with lawyer division considered adding extra pressure on government agencies in America to make their websites and forms accessible?
I ask because it’s disheartening in 2024 when a blind person needs to interact with a housing Authority, where anything is set up or pass down through HUD the documents and forms are paper form or offered in limited capacity in a non-accessible digital format if the housing Authority chooses to send those after scanning them.
Thoughts


_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com



From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Wed Aug  7 00:58:47 2024
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (rothmanjd at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 20:58:47 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Government website and forms
In-Reply-To: <BN0P221MB0382AC59601E74D5C9BB6BF0DCBF2@BN0P221MB0382.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BN0P221MB0382AC59601E74D5C9BB6BF0DCBF2@BN0P221MB0382.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <055101dae864$f5bf9cc0$e13ed640$@gmail.com>

Yes, in our role as a division of the National Federation of the Blind, we've worked on advocacy and legislation regarding accessibility of websites and information.  Many of us also submitted public comment on the Notices of Proposed Rule Making for the ADA Title II and Section 504 regulations just last year,  and as we see additional NPRMs coming down the pipeline we will provide feedback on them as well.  


Ronza Othman, President
National Federation of the Blind of Maryland
443-426-4110
Pronouns: she, her, hers

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of wmodnl wmodnl via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 1:19 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Government website and forms

Has the organization with lawyer division considered adding extra pressure on government agencies in America to make their websites and forms accessible?
I ask because it’s disheartening in 2024 when a blind person needs to interact with a housing Authority, where anything is set up or pass down through HUD the documents and forms are paper form or offered in limited capacity in a non-accessible digital format if the housing Authority chooses to send those after scanning them.
Thoughts


_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com



From nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu  Fri Aug  9 01:05:10 2024
From: nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu (Nikki Singh)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 21:05:10 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library
In-Reply-To: <CAO+t8U1-rgYWoCnO6ONn+v_SCUeHNm-46w_bYMXGxHxyYpD4ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+t8U1-rgYWoCnO6ONn+v_SCUeHNm-46w_bYMXGxHxyYpD4ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADv2uY=EZyr0CWbJyfnHK1VBuPLm-hTMJfDmo6B0vE-V5ZJTUg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi! I did not use my law library as a space to study. However, I sometimes
studied in the library during college. When I was in a public area within
the library, I for sure used headphones. Libraries are supposed to be
quiet! Keep in mind though that many academic libraries have carrels, and
those are fine for using JAWS without headphones. Another idea to try is to
occupy a classroom—or auditorium if you are feeling expansive—during off
hours on the weekend or some evenings. You can do whatever you want in
regard to audio preferences in those settings.


Sincerely,

Nikki

On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 12:38 PM omar duncan via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi all
>
>
> In your school libraries have you guys  used jaws or any text to speech
> program for that matter out loud? If not the library, then any public space
> in the school dedicated to learning.
>
>
> Is it allowed to use jaws outloud or even low enough to be a big bother to
> others while loud enough to to avoid using headphones. Not a headphones fan
>
>
> Best,
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>

From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au  Fri Aug  9 01:14:31 2024
From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 01:14:31 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library
In-Reply-To: <CADv2uY=EZyr0CWbJyfnHK1VBuPLm-hTMJfDmo6B0vE-V5ZJTUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+t8U1-rgYWoCnO6ONn+v_SCUeHNm-46w_bYMXGxHxyYpD4ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADv2uY=EZyr0CWbJyfnHK1VBuPLm-hTMJfDmo6B0vE-V5ZJTUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SYYP282MB115204DC375D059167CBD46698BA2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I've always used headphones and still do now I have a nice office as a professor of law.  
I suggest to my students to get used to things they will need in the future.  For you, I would suggest you might want to get used to using headphones as you will need to in future situations like:
* If you are doing client interviews they might not want to hear your screen reader while you are trying to read questions to them or your typine notes in a meeting.  IN fact, most folks whoa re not exposed to screen readers will spend a lot of time being distracted by the screen reader.
* If you want to use JAWS in a mediation you don't want JAWS to blurtn out "We will settle for $14 thousand but start at $7 thousand and play hard ball!"  that might be your notes so headphones might be helpful.
* if you end up lecturing or giving speeches, and you use JAWS, which I do, you absolutely cannot have your screen reader and you speaking into a microphone at the same time.  
The screen reader I do use in quite spaces is my iPhone if I am just asking how to spell something or the like.  but even then I often have headphones on.


Professor Paul Harpur OAM   
BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
The University of Queensland Law School
(TEQSA PRV12080)  

Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
Australian Research Council Future Fellow
Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel 

“Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Nikki Singh via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2024 11:05 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Nikki Singh <nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library

Hi! I did not use my law library as a space to study. However, I sometimes studied in the library during college. When I was in a public area within the library, I for sure used headphones. Libraries are supposed to be quiet! Keep in mind though that many academic libraries have carrels, and those are fine for using JAWS without headphones. Another idea to try is to occupy a classroom—or auditorium if you are feeling expansive—during off hours on the weekend or some evenings. You can do whatever you want in regard to audio preferences in those settings.


Sincerely,

Nikki

On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 12:38 PM omar duncan via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi all
>
>
> In your school libraries have you guys  used jaws or any text to 
> speech program for that matter out loud? If not the library, then any 
> public space in the school dedicated to learning.
>
>
> Is it allowed to use jaws outloud or even low enough to be a big 
> bother to others while loud enough to to avoid using headphones. Not a 
> headphones fan
>
>
> Best,
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40ay
> a.yale.edu
>
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com

From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  9 02:20:56 2024
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (rjaquiss at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 20:20:56 -0600
Subject: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library
In-Reply-To: <CADv2uY=EZyr0CWbJyfnHK1VBuPLm-hTMJfDmo6B0vE-V5ZJTUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+t8U1-rgYWoCnO6ONn+v_SCUeHNm-46w_bYMXGxHxyYpD4ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADv2uY=EZyr0CWbJyfnHK1VBuPLm-hTMJfDmo6B0vE-V5ZJTUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601daea02$c5388220$4fa98660$@earthlink.net>

Hello:

     I would certainly suggest using headphones in a library. You can get open air headphones that allow you to hear other sounds in your area. Closed ear headphones will block out all sound except for JAWS. There are also noise canceling headphones that block out even more sound.
Another option is bone conduction headphones. A store that sells audio equipment should be able to help you try out various options.

Regards,
Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Nikki Singh via BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2024 7:05 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Nikki Singh <nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Reading jaws out loud in school library

Hi! I did not use my law library as a space to study. However, I sometimes studied in the library during college. When I was in a public area within the library, I for sure used headphones. Libraries are supposed to be quiet! Keep in mind though that many academic libraries have carrels, and those are fine for using JAWS without headphones. Another idea to try is to occupy a classroom—or auditorium if you are feeling expansive—during off hours on the weekend or some evenings. You can do whatever you want in regard to audio preferences in those settings.


Sincerely,

Nikki

On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 12:38 PM omar duncan via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi all
>
>
> In your school libraries have you guys  used jaws or any text to 
> speech program for that matter out loud? If not the library, then any 
> public space in the school dedicated to learning.
>
>
> Is it allowed to use jaws outloud or even low enough to be a big 
> bother to others while loud enough to to avoid using headphones. Not a 
> headphones fan
>
>
> Best,
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40ay
> a.yale.edu
>
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net



From ccmlhe at gmail.com  Fri Aug  9 10:00:16 2024
From: ccmlhe at gmail.com (ccmlhe at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 06:00:16 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Any practicing attorneys in Illinois willing to give
 advice to a law student
Message-ID: <0942EFC8-65C3-4D21-A1F0-4F30CA1C5D52@gmail.com>

hi, I am a second year law student, and I am interested in practicing law in Chicago or  anywhere in Illinois after graduation. Would any attorneys who practice law in Illinois be willing to contact me off list to talk about the legal market and give me advice on what you did to find summer internships or employment after law school?

Thank you
My email is
ccmlhe at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

From davant1958 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  9 11:25:51 2024
From: davant1958 at gmail.com (davant1958 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 06:25:51 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Any practicing attorneys in Illinois willing to give
 advice to a law student
In-Reply-To: <0942EFC8-65C3-4D21-A1F0-4F30CA1C5D52@gmail.com>
References: <0942EFC8-65C3-4D21-A1F0-4F30CA1C5D52@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0f2801daea4e$e4b7cb50$ae2761f0$@gmail.com>

Good Morning Cecilia,
There are several blind attorneys in Illinois.
Michal Nowicki was admitted to practice about five years ago, and is
successfully employed. You can email him at treasurer at nfbofillinois.org.
John Holgrae is now a 2L at Northwestern University and I think he completed
an summer internship. I can try to locate his email.
The above are the two most recent.
Then there is Patti Chang, pattischang at gmail.com, who is retired from the
city after a 27 year career and now works as our Outreach Coordinator for
our national office. My name is Denise Avant, and I worked for 30 years at
the Cook County Public Defenders office. I serve on the American Bar
Association's Board of Governors.
There is also one blind attorney at the U.S. Attorney's office for the
Northern District of Illinois.


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cecilia Martinez
via BlindLaw
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2024 5:00 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: ccmlhe at gmail.com
Subject: [blindLaw] Any practicing attorneys in Illinois willing to give
advice to a law student

hi, I am a second year law student, and I am interested in practicing law in
Chicago or  anywhere in Illinois after graduation. Would any attorneys who
practice law in Illinois be willing to contact me off list to talk about the
legal market and give me advice on what you did to find summer internships
or employment after law school?

Thank you
My email is
ccmlhe at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/davant1958%40gmail.com



From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 18:48:23 2024
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (Ronza Othman)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 14:48:23 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Seeking immigration attorney
Message-ID: <E69555FE-A12D-4405-940A-EF36AC3315FC@gmail.com>

Colleagues, if you practice immigration law, please contact me off list.
Ronza Othman, President
National Federation of the Blind of Maryland
443-426-4110
Sent from my iPhone


From mnowicki4 at icloud.com  Tue Aug 13 20:55:03 2024
From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:55:03 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Tackling Inaccessible Government PDF Forms: Employer
 Accommodations vs. Seeking Assistance from Responsible Government Agency
Message-ID: <001f01daedc3$13a0ec90$3ae2c5b0$@icloud.com>

Greetings,

 

I may have mentioned in a previous thread on this list regarding
inaccessible government forms that nearly all PDF forms I have encountered
on state public utility commission (PUC) websites are not sufficiently
accessible for me to fill out on my own. These forms range from simple
filings like telephone company name change or authorized representative
designation forms, to registration forms to provide telecom services in a
state, or applications for related licenses. Almost all of these forms, even
if fillable electronically, are not properly labeled for screen readers.
Thus far, when I have been asked to fill out such forms from clients, I have
been generally relying on the assistance of support staff at my firm;
occasionally, I've been able to hand off the assignment to another attorney
in exchange for other work.

 

Have any of you in this situation sought assistance from the responsible
government agency instead of, or in addition to, requesting internal
support? For example, have you contacted the government agency explaining
the access barriers and tried to schedule a call to fill out the form over
the phone with the help of an agency representative? If so, I would love to
hear how doing so turned out for you.

 

I would also appreciate your input on the potential ethical implications of
this approach. For example, before asking a state PUC to help me fill out a
form for a client, would I need to obtain the client's informed consent in
order not to violate my professional duty of confidentiality?

 

I am exploring the potential viability of the government agency assistance
approach because if permissible and effective, it might speed up long
overdue accessibility improvements to these forms. That is, each time the
issue is brought to an agency's attention, the need to make these forms
accessible is reinforced and communicated to the agency.

 

Thank you in advance for your observations and recommendations.

 

Best,

 

Michal Nowicki


From ccweaver003 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 14 15:15:46 2024
From: ccweaver003 at gmail.com (Caitlin Weaver)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 10:15:46 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT Advice
Message-ID: <CAC75ZjVC9GG8ZTNcWfEmdJoF44s2Noj11b_2Sz8jJgFUCVJhzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone!

I'm starting LSAT prep and wanted to know what worked best for you? I've
been recommended a Princeton Prep Course and I've had sighted people give
very visual based advice that isn't really applicable. What helped you in
studying? What are some unexpected issues or challenges you had when taking
the LSAT?

I'm a knowledge is power kind of person, so any advice on LSAT, law school,
or law based career experience as a blind person would be greatly
appreciated

Thank you so much!

From oduncan821 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 14 15:32:52 2024
From: oduncan821 at gmail.com (omar duncan)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 08:32:52 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT Advice
In-Reply-To: <CAC75ZjVC9GG8ZTNcWfEmdJoF44s2Noj11b_2Sz8jJgFUCVJhzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC75ZjVC9GG8ZTNcWfEmdJoF44s2Noj11b_2Sz8jJgFUCVJhzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+t8U2qbRHSLbAMASJ32wZJT1oqfrNjhQDeYE4cT_AEPvD=mw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey try blueprint. They had video lessons teach you. However, there were
words on the videos.

I recommend you try that through their trial


7 sage could be good too because they have videos also and pages with  text
that should be accesses  by a screen reader


Also, if you qualify for a fee waiver from LSAC , you can  get discounts in
many courses?


On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 8:17 AM Caitlin Weaver via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm starting LSAT prep and wanted to know what worked best for you? I've
> been recommended a Princeton Prep Course and I've had sighted people give
> very visual based advice that isn't really applicable. What helped you in
> studying? What are some unexpected issues or challenges you had when taking
> the LSAT?
>
> I'm a knowledge is power kind of person, so any advice on LSAT, law school,
> or law based career experience as a blind person would be greatly
> appreciated
>
> Thank you so much!
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/oduncan821%40gmail.com
>

From nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu  Sat Aug 17 17:59:39 2024
From: nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu (Nikki Singh)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 13:59:39 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Tackling Inaccessible Government PDF Forms: Employer
 Accommodations vs. Seeking Assistance from Responsible Government Agency
In-Reply-To: <001f01daedc3$13a0ec90$3ae2c5b0$@icloud.com>
References: <001f01daedc3$13a0ec90$3ae2c5b0$@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CADv2uYnst0VV+RteM8J4rVDfUCDDwUVXOK8tNEybm8Uq+N7EBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi! I think either could work out fine. You are also thinking about the
right ideas. I like the internal rout because it is generally more
efficient, especially if you have access to a reader. I am not sure that a
live human is available at an agency to provide assistance in a timely
manner. Note that I have a lot of time-sensitive work, so getting things
done fast is a premium for me. That includes filling out necessary
government forms/online series of fillable screens.



Using an agency rep can definitely open more questions about maintaining
client confidentiality. Since the information is going to be disclosed to a
third party anyway, due to the form going to whatever ultimate destination
at the agency, you have to consider if the initial time spent with an
agency rep to fill in the form actually divulges truly confidential or
privileged information that belongs to your client. For instance, your
completing an authorized rep form will pretty much give away the fact that
you are XYZ person’s attorney. Does taking the help of an agency rep at the
pre-submission stage present any disclosure issues that would not become
moot by the time you submit the authorized rep form? I am not sure what
your engagement letters look like, but clients should understand that their
expectations of confidentiality and privilege have to be reasonable yet
flexible enough for the type of advocacy agreed to. That does not mean that
you do not take measures to safeguard privileged or confidential
information. Forms, by their nature, will disclose information to someone
else; any client should appreciate that.



The one caveat is the nature of your practice. I know those in national
security or tax or M&A, for example, do have to think about disclosure
beyond the vanilla privileged and confidential categories. You should know
if there are practice-specific professional rules or disclosure statutes
that you should follow. Maybe for those, you may need consent and/or a
waiver from the client or else use internal solutions.



Sincerely,

Nikki

On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:56 PM Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
>
>
> I may have mentioned in a previous thread on this list regarding
> inaccessible government forms that nearly all PDF forms I have encountered
> on state public utility commission (PUC) websites are not sufficiently
> accessible for me to fill out on my own. These forms range from simple
> filings like telephone company name change or authorized representative
> designation forms, to registration forms to provide telecom services in a
> state, or applications for related licenses. Almost all of these forms,
> even
> if fillable electronically, are not properly labeled for screen readers.
> Thus far, when I have been asked to fill out such forms from clients, I
> have
> been generally relying on the assistance of support staff at my firm;
> occasionally, I've been able to hand off the assignment to another attorney
> in exchange for other work.
>
>
>
> Have any of you in this situation sought assistance from the responsible
> government agency instead of, or in addition to, requesting internal
> support? For example, have you contacted the government agency explaining
> the access barriers and tried to schedule a call to fill out the form over
> the phone with the help of an agency representative? If so, I would love to
> hear how doing so turned out for you.
>
>
>
> I would also appreciate your input on the potential ethical implications of
> this approach. For example, before asking a state PUC to help me fill out a
> form for a client, would I need to obtain the client's informed consent in
> order not to violate my professional duty of confidentiality?
>
>
>
> I am exploring the potential viability of the government agency assistance
> approach because if permissible and effective, it might speed up long
> overdue accessibility improvements to these forms. That is, each time the
> issue is brought to an agency's attention, the need to make these forms
> accessible is reinforced and communicated to the agency.
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance for your observations and recommendations.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Michal Nowicki
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>

From natasha.ishaq2001 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 18 03:05:36 2024
From: natasha.ishaq2001 at gmail.com (Natasha Ishaq)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 23:05:36 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Citations & Formatting of Legal Writing in Law School &
 Beyond
Message-ID: <CAPi4z4Gw_od9FB635VX7+cGuzfoSwXc75+SLdaNKbLRn46MnvA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I’ve started law school and we have been introduced to the Bluebook and the
importance of correct formatting when it comes to legal writing. This is
something we will be doign extensively in our skills courses this semester
and beyond.

I was curious if anyone here faced accessibility barriers with citations
and formatting and how you navigated through such challenges?

Thank you!

Best,
Natasha

From oduncan821 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 18 05:18:52 2024
From: oduncan821 at gmail.com (omar duncan)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 22:18:52 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Citations & Formatting of Legal Writing in Law
 School & Beyond
In-Reply-To: <CAPi4z4Gw_od9FB635VX7+cGuzfoSwXc75+SLdaNKbLRn46MnvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPi4z4Gw_od9FB635VX7+cGuzfoSwXc75+SLdaNKbLRn46MnvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+t8U2eQWhjKcuQUBroghOEfmRqG+mv71L4Y-aeQhYKp7OoMg@mail.gmail.com>

Next year i will be in first year too
 I would appreciate feedback on this too to be prepared

Thanks



On Sat, Aug 17, 2024 at 8:07 PM Natasha Ishaq via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I’ve started law school and we have been introduced to the Bluebook and the
> importance of correct formatting when it comes to legal writing. This is
> something we will be doign extensively in our skills courses this semester
> and beyond.
>
> I was curious if anyone here faced accessibility barriers with citations
> and formatting and how you navigated through such challenges?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Best,
> Natasha
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/oduncan821%40gmail.com
>

From rmarrowood12 at me.com  Sun Aug 18 16:24:18 2024
From: rmarrowood12 at me.com (Rebecca Arrowood)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 11:24:18 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Citations & Formatting of Legal Writing in Law
 School & Beyond
In-Reply-To: <CAPi4z4Gw_od9FB635VX7+cGuzfoSwXc75+SLdaNKbLRn46MnvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPi4z4Gw_od9FB635VX7+cGuzfoSwXc75+SLdaNKbLRn46MnvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC49890E-9806-4AC9-BB62-9047F4727135@me.com>

Good morning, I would definitely pay to do the subscription to get the blue book online access

Best,
Rebecca Arrowood


> On Aug 17, 2024, at 10:07 PM, Natasha Ishaq via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I’ve started law school and we have been introduced to the Bluebook and the
> importance of correct formatting when it comes to legal writing. This is
> something we will be doign extensively in our skills courses this semester
> and beyond.
> 
> I was curious if anyone here faced accessibility barriers with citations
> and formatting and how you navigated through such challenges?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Best,
> Natasha
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rmarrowood12%40me.com


From laurenbishop96 at icloud.com  Sun Aug 18 17:08:53 2024
From: laurenbishop96 at icloud.com (Lauren Bishop)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 13:08:53 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Citations & Formatting of Legal Writing in Law
 School & Beyond
In-Reply-To: <AC49890E-9806-4AC9-BB62-9047F4727135@me.com>
References: <AC49890E-9806-4AC9-BB62-9047F4727135@me.com>
Message-ID: <DD7928D9-B009-4DA9-9EBE-1FF4E5FFB073@icloud.com>

Hello,
The online version of the blue book is amazing. Also legal citatation is easy once you get the hang of it. No one in your classes will know how to format the documents, so templates will be provided. You can request those in MS word format. If you use the command Jaws key plus f, you will hear the font and formatting of the text your cursor is over. I also asked to have someone look at my formatting to make sure nothing crazy happened. A waver of the formatting was offered for my classes, but formatting is essential, so I didn’t accept the accommodation. 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2024, at 12:26 PM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, I would definitely pay to do the subscription to get the blue book online access
> 
> Best,
> Rebecca Arrowood
> 
> 
>> On Aug 17, 2024, at 10:07 PM, Natasha Ishaq via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I’ve started law school and we have been introduced to the Bluebook and the
>> importance of correct formatting when it comes to legal writing. This is
>> something we will be doign extensively in our skills courses this semester
>> and beyond.
>> 
>> I was curious if anyone here faced accessibility barriers with citations
>> and formatting and how you navigated through such challenges?
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> Best,
>> Natasha
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rmarrowood12%40me.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laurenbishop96%40icloud.com


From nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu  Sun Aug 18 18:46:28 2024
From: nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu (Nikki Singh)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 14:46:28 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Citations & Formatting of Legal Writing in Law
 School & Beyond
In-Reply-To: <DD7928D9-B009-4DA9-9EBE-1FF4E5FFB073@icloud.com>
References: <AC49890E-9806-4AC9-BB62-9047F4727135@me.com>
 <DD7928D9-B009-4DA9-9EBE-1FF4E5FFB073@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CADv2uYki4AC3k-6dk6aeik==S89ziOr=_+1v2TWK6hvxHHEfpA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi! Second all this. Citation and formatting is very important and will
matter significantly once you are filing real pleadings in court. The
appropriate accommodation in the classroom setting is a reader to review
formatting to catch issues with odd spacing, inconsistent fonts, proper
spatial organization of the footer, etc. once you have tried your best to
draft the pleading yourself, with or without a template. You should not ask
nor get a waiver to put citation, formatting, word count limits, and the
like aside. Actual courts will not give you that accommodation and will
instead expect you to adhere to civil, local and chambers rules.


Sincerely,

Nikki

On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 1:10 PM Lauren Bishop via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hello,
> The online version of the blue book is amazing. Also legal citatation is
> easy once you get the hang of it. No one in your classes will know how to
> format the documents, so templates will be provided. You can request those
> in MS word format. If you use the command Jaws key plus f, you will hear
> the font and formatting of the text your cursor is over. I also asked to
> have someone look at my formatting to make sure nothing crazy happened. A
> waver of the formatting was offered for my classes, but formatting is
> essential, so I didn’t accept the accommodation.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 18, 2024, at 12:26 PM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Good morning, I would definitely pay to do the subscription to get the
> blue book online access
> >
> > Best,
> > Rebecca Arrowood
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 17, 2024, at 10:07 PM, Natasha Ishaq via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I’ve started law school and we have been introduced to the Bluebook and
> the
> >> importance of correct formatting when it comes to legal writing. This is
> >> something we will be doign extensively in our skills courses this
> semester
> >> and beyond.
> >>
> >> I was curious if anyone here faced accessibility barriers with citations
> >> and formatting and how you navigated through such challenges?
> >>
> >> Thank you!
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Natasha
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BlindLaw mailing list
> >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rmarrowood12%40me.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laurenbishop96%40icloud.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>

From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 18 19:14:51 2024
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 15:14:51 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Citations & Formatting of Legal Writing in Law
 School & Beyond
In-Reply-To: <CADv2uYki4AC3k-6dk6aeik==S89ziOr=_+1v2TWK6hvxHHEfpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADv2uYki4AC3k-6dk6aeik==S89ziOr=_+1v2TWK6hvxHHEfpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C9DBDB5-DF7F-47A3-B813-5BF0A41F4DA7@yahoo.com>

This is all correct. I would only add that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with having a paralegal or other administrative support staff assist with formatting while in practice. For starters, this is part of their job. And there’s no need to do everything yourself to prove a point, particularly when it may take significantly longer for you to hunt for and fix problems that  a competent administrative assistant, who bills at a much lower rate, could handle in a few minutes.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2024, at 2:48 PM, Nikki Singh via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi! Second all this. Citation and formatting is very important and will
> matter significantly once you are filing real pleadings in court. The
> appropriate accommodation in the classroom setting is a reader to review
> formatting to catch issues with odd spacing, inconsistent fonts, proper
> spatial organization of the footer, etc. once you have tried your best to
> draft the pleading yourself, with or without a template. You should not ask
> nor get a waiver to put citation, formatting, word count limits, and the
> like aside. Actual courts will not give you that accommodation and will
> instead expect you to adhere to civil, local and chambers rules.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Nikki
> 
>> On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 1:10 PM Lauren Bishop via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> The online version of the blue book is amazing. Also legal citatation is
>> easy once you get the hang of it. No one in your classes will know how to
>> format the documents, so templates will be provided. You can request those
>> in MS word format. If you use the command Jaws key plus f, you will hear
>> the font and formatting of the text your cursor is over. I also asked to
>> have someone look at my formatting to make sure nothing crazy happened. A
>> waver of the formatting was offered for my classes, but formatting is
>> essential, so I didn’t accept the accommodation.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 18, 2024, at 12:26 PM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Good morning, I would definitely pay to do the subscription to get the
>> blue book online access
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Rebecca Arrowood
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 17, 2024, at 10:07 PM, Natasha Ishaq via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi All,
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve started law school and we have been introduced to the Bluebook and
>> the
>>>> importance of correct formatting when it comes to legal writing. This is
>>>> something we will be doign extensively in our skills courses this
>> semester
>>>> and beyond.
>>>> 
>>>> I was curious if anyone here faced accessibility barriers with citations
>>>> and formatting and how you navigated through such challenges?
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you!
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Natasha
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rmarrowood12%40me.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laurenbishop96%40icloud.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com



From marinamrake at gmail.com  Sun Aug 18 19:29:38 2024
From: marinamrake at gmail.com (Marina Rake)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 14:29:38 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT Advice
In-Reply-To: <CAO+t8U2qbRHSLbAMASJ32wZJT1oqfrNjhQDeYE4cT_AEPvD=mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+t8U2qbRHSLbAMASJ32wZJT1oqfrNjhQDeYE4cT_AEPvD=mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A6B4CC28-C042-447C-AAD6-3F5BA13B347D@gmail.com>

Hey Caitlin, 

I am studying for thw LSAT, too. This will be my second time taking it. And LawHub has been very helpful. It is available for free through your LSAC account. They have video lessons that outline strategies and how to approach the types of questions on the test, and they have article lessons that are readable with a screen reader. 

There are also drill sets to practice questions by section and full practice exams to take. 

Hope that helps. Good luck on the test!

Sincerely,
Marina 

> On Aug 14, 2024, at 10:34 AM, omar duncan via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hey try blueprint. They had video lessons teach you. However, there were
> words on the videos.
> 
> I recommend you try that through their trial
> 
> 
> 7 sage could be good too because they have videos also and pages with  text
> that should be accesses  by a screen reader
> 
> 
> Also, if you qualify for a fee waiver from LSAC , you can  get discounts in
> many courses?
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 8:17 AM Caitlin Weaver via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone!
>> 
>> I'm starting LSAT prep and wanted to know what worked best for you? I've
>> been recommended a Princeton Prep Course and I've had sighted people give
>> very visual based advice that isn't really applicable. What helped you in
>> studying? What are some unexpected issues or challenges you had when taking
>> the LSAT?
>> 
>> I'm a knowledge is power kind of person, so any advice on LSAT, law school,
>> or law based career experience as a blind person would be greatly
>> appreciated
>> 
>> Thank you so much!
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/oduncan821%40gmail.com
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marinamrake%40gmail.com


From natasha.ishaq2001 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 18 23:02:31 2024
From: natasha.ishaq2001 at gmail.com (Natasha Ishaq)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 19:02:31 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Citations & Formatting of Legal Writing in Law
 School & Beyond
In-Reply-To: <4C9DBDB5-DF7F-47A3-B813-5BF0A41F4DA7@yahoo.com>
References: <CADv2uYki4AC3k-6dk6aeik==S89ziOr=_+1v2TWK6hvxHHEfpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4C9DBDB5-DF7F-47A3-B813-5BF0A41F4DA7@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPi4z4GKnrvPvuXkkasYu=-=6O4_zMgPGt2dixhV53tUAi9ydA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you all for the insight and advice! Much appreciated

Thanks,
Natasha Ishaq


On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 3:16 PM James Fetter via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> This is all correct. I would only add that there is nothing whatsoever
> wrong with having a paralegal or other administrative support staff assist
> with formatting while in practice. For starters, this is part of their job.
> And there’s no need to do everything yourself to prove a point,
> particularly when it may take significantly longer for you to hunt for and
> fix problems that  a competent administrative assistant, who bills at a
> much lower rate, could handle in a few minutes.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 18, 2024, at 2:48 PM, Nikki Singh via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi! Second all this. Citation and formatting is very important and will
> > matter significantly once you are filing real pleadings in court. The
> > appropriate accommodation in the classroom setting is a reader to review
> > formatting to catch issues with odd spacing, inconsistent fonts, proper
> > spatial organization of the footer, etc. once you have tried your best to
> > draft the pleading yourself, with or without a template. You should not
> ask
> > nor get a waiver to put citation, formatting, word count limits, and the
> > like aside. Actual courts will not give you that accommodation and will
> > instead expect you to adhere to civil, local and chambers rules.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Nikki
> >
> >> On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 1:10 PM Lauren Bishop via BlindLaw <
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> The online version of the blue book is amazing. Also legal citatation is
> >> easy once you get the hang of it. No one in your classes will know how
> to
> >> format the documents, so templates will be provided. You can request
> those
> >> in MS word format. If you use the command Jaws key plus f, you will hear
> >> the font and formatting of the text your cursor is over. I also asked to
> >> have someone look at my formatting to make sure nothing crazy happened.
> A
> >> waver of the formatting was offered for my classes, but formatting is
> >> essential, so I didn’t accept the accommodation.
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Aug 18, 2024, at 12:26 PM, Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw <
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Good morning, I would definitely pay to do the subscription to get the
> >> blue book online access
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Rebecca Arrowood
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Aug 17, 2024, at 10:07 PM, Natasha Ishaq via BlindLaw <
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi All,
> >>>>
> >>>> I’ve started law school and we have been introduced to the Bluebook
> and
> >> the
> >>>> importance of correct formatting when it comes to legal writing. This
> is
> >>>> something we will be doign extensively in our skills courses this
> >> semester
> >>>> and beyond.
> >>>>
> >>>> I was curious if anyone here faced accessibility barriers with
> citations
> >>>> and formatting and how you navigated through such challenges?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you!
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> Natasha
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> BlindLaw mailing list
> >>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> BlindLaw:
> >>>>
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rmarrowood12%40me.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> BlindLaw mailing list
> >>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> BlindLaw:
> >>>
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laurenbishop96%40icloud.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BlindLaw mailing list
> >> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> BlindLaw:
> >>
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40aya.yale.edu
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/natasha.ishaq2001%40gmail.com
>

From mnowicki4 at icloud.com  Tue Aug 20 01:27:16 2024
From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 20:27:16 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Tackling Inaccessible Government PDF Forms: Employer
 Accommodations vs. Seeking Assistance from Responsible Government Agency
In-Reply-To: <CADv2uYnst0VV+RteM8J4rVDfUCDDwUVXOK8tNEybm8Uq+N7EBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001f01daedc3$13a0ec90$3ae2c5b0$@icloud.com>
 <CADv2uYnst0VV+RteM8J4rVDfUCDDwUVXOK8tNEybm8Uq+N7EBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901daf2a0$1c2fba30$548f2e90$@icloud.com>

Hi Nikki,

Thank you so much for these thoughtful insights. Staff availability to help in a timely manner could indeed be very much a hit or miss.

Best,

Michal

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Nikki Singh via BlindLaw
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2024 1:00 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Nikki Singh <nikki.singh at aya.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Tackling Inaccessible Government PDF Forms: Employer Accommodations vs. Seeking Assistance from Responsible Government Agency

Hi! I think either could work out fine. You are also thinking about the right ideas. I like the internal rout because it is generally more efficient, especially if you have access to a reader. I am not sure that a live human is available at an agency to provide assistance in a timely manner. Note that I have a lot of time-sensitive work, so getting things done fast is a premium for me. That includes filling out necessary government forms/online series of fillable screens.



Using an agency rep can definitely open more questions about maintaining client confidentiality. Since the information is going to be disclosed to a third party anyway, due to the form going to whatever ultimate destination at the agency, you have to consider if the initial time spent with an agency rep to fill in the form actually divulges truly confidential or privileged information that belongs to your client. For instance, your completing an authorized rep form will pretty much give away the fact that you are XYZ person’s attorney. Does taking the help of an agency rep at the pre-submission stage present any disclosure issues that would not become moot by the time you submit the authorized rep form? I am not sure what your engagement letters look like, but clients should understand that their expectations of confidentiality and privilege have to be reasonable yet flexible enough for the type of advocacy agreed to. That does not mean that you do not take measures to safeguard privileged or confidential information. Forms, by their nature, will disclose information to someone else; any client should appreciate that.



The one caveat is the nature of your practice. I know those in national security or tax or M&A, for example, do have to think about disclosure beyond the vanilla privileged and confidential categories. You should know if there are practice-specific professional rules or disclosure statutes that you should follow. Maybe for those, you may need consent and/or a waiver from the client or else use internal solutions.



Sincerely,

Nikki

On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:56 PM Michal Nowicki via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
>
>
> I may have mentioned in a previous thread on this list regarding 
> inaccessible government forms that nearly all PDF forms I have 
> encountered on state public utility commission (PUC) websites are not 
> sufficiently accessible for me to fill out on my own. These forms 
> range from simple filings like telephone company name change or 
> authorized representative designation forms, to registration forms to 
> provide telecom services in a state, or applications for related 
> licenses. Almost all of these forms, even if fillable electronically, 
> are not properly labeled for screen readers.
> Thus far, when I have been asked to fill out such forms from clients, 
> I have been generally relying on the assistance of support staff at my 
> firm; occasionally, I've been able to hand off the assignment to 
> another attorney in exchange for other work.
>
>
>
> Have any of you in this situation sought assistance from the 
> responsible government agency instead of, or in addition to, 
> requesting internal support? For example, have you contacted the 
> government agency explaining the access barriers and tried to schedule 
> a call to fill out the form over the phone with the help of an agency 
> representative? If so, I would love to hear how doing so turned out for you.
>
>
>
> I would also appreciate your input on the potential ethical 
> implications of this approach. For example, before asking a state PUC 
> to help me fill out a form for a client, would I need to obtain the 
> client's informed consent in order not to violate my professional duty of confidentiality?
>
>
>
> I am exploring the potential viability of the government agency 
> assistance approach because if permissible and effective, it might 
> speed up long overdue accessibility improvements to these forms. That 
> is, each time the issue is brought to an agency's attention, the need 
> to make these forms accessible is reinforced and communicated to the agency.
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance for your observations and recommendations.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Michal Nowicki
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nikki.singh%40ay
> a.yale.edu
>
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com



From nssulca at gmail.com  Wed Aug 28 13:14:07 2024
From: nssulca at gmail.com (Natalia Sulca)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 09:14:07 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessible resources for law school?
Message-ID: <007a01daf94c$29c75150$7d55f3f0$@gmail.com>

Hello All,

I am currently a 1L student. Everything my school provides has been
completely accessible thus far. I was curious if any of you with experience
have specific resources you'd recommend or tools for studying or just for
success as a blind law student.. Anything I should be focusing on
particularly that might not be obvious? Appreciate all of your assistance
and imput.

Best,

Natalia Sulca 


From laurenbishop96 at icloud.com  Wed Aug 28 22:51:31 2024
From: laurenbishop96 at icloud.com (Lauren Bishop)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 18:51:31 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Accessible resources for law school?
In-Reply-To: <007a01daf94c$29c75150$7d55f3f0$@gmail.com>
References: <007a01daf94c$29c75150$7d55f3f0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBC066D9-1C65-42E1-84CB-CC167AC180E4@icloud.com>

I highly recommend Quimby in the crunch time books. You can get the crunch time books on Kindle, and they are accessible. Also, if your school library has them, your school can get them for you in an accessible format.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2024, at 9:15 AM, Natalia Sulca via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I am currently a 1L student. Everything my school provides has been
> completely accessible thus far. I was curious if any of you with experience
> have specific resources you'd recommend or tools for studying or just for
> success as a blind law student.. Anything I should be focusing on
> particularly that might not be obvious? Appreciate all of your assistance
> and imput.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Natalia Sulca
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/laurenbishop96%40icloud.com


From ccmlhe at gmail.com  Thu Aug 29 18:22:09 2024
From: ccmlhe at gmail.com (ccmlhe at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 14:22:09 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] taking the MPRE?
Message-ID: <84DDCBCD-75E9-4521-9164-A928ABC3263F@gmail.com>

hi, this semester I am taking a professional responsibility class which is meant to prepare me to take the mpre. For those who have taken it, how far in advance did you submit your accommodations request? Anything I should know about submitting that request and asking for accommodations?

Sent from my iPhone

From rmarrowood12 at me.com  Thu Aug 29 18:26:10 2024
From: rmarrowood12 at me.com (Rebecca Arrowood)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 14:26:10 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] taking the MPRE?
In-Reply-To: <84DDCBCD-75E9-4521-9164-A928ABC3263F@gmail.com>
References: <84DDCBCD-75E9-4521-9164-A928ABC3263F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17413DFE-D3C7-4A9C-94FB-C8543D9B1D97@me.com>

Good afternoon,

The most important part is that you request for accommodations and get receipt of the approved accommodations before you actually register for the exam, otherwise you will not be able to use those accommodations for any exam that you registered for

Best,
Rebecca Arrowood


> On Aug 29, 2024, at 2:23 PM, Cecilia Martinez via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> hi, this semester I am taking a professional responsibility class which is meant to prepare me to take the mpre. For those who have taken it, how far in advance did you submit your accommodations request? Anything I should know about submitting that request and asking for accommodations?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
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From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Thu Aug 29 18:43:21 2024
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie A. Orozco)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 14:43:21 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] taking the MPRE?
In-Reply-To: <17413DFE-D3C7-4A9C-94FB-C8543D9B1D97@me.com>
References: <84DDCBCD-75E9-4521-9164-A928ABC3263F@gmail.com>
 <17413DFE-D3C7-4A9C-94FB-C8543D9B1D97@me.com>
Message-ID: <000701dafa43$52de63b0$f89b2b10$@gmail.com>

Hi Ceci,

Yes, it seems a little strange, but you have to request accommodations before registering for the exam. I was able to request accommodations in early January to take the March test this year, but I would strongly recommend doing things a little earlier than I did. I would decide which test you want to take: November, March, or August, and then figure out the deadlines from there. You will need a vision report and other supporting documentation. I was able to make it work without a super up-to-date medical report, but I already had approval for accommodations for the bar exam and used that as supporting documentation. 

Also, I had to call to pay and reserve my spot with a testing center that would accommodate me. This was a huge pain because my rehab agency was paying for the test but I had to approve the testing center myself over the phone. It took a few days of persistent calling back and forth to get everything settled with them, and I was not in classes at the time. 

One more thing, I would practice jaws keystrokes, assuming you are taking the test with a screen reader because I found out the hard way that you can't access Jaws itself to change your settings. Thank goodness for extra time because I had to play with key strokes before I finally figured out how to speed the thing up. 

Let me know if you have additional questions. I just took the MPRE in March. The whole thing is kind of a blur because I took the Bar the month before, but I can do my best to remember how things went for me. 

Julie





-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Rebecca Arrowood via BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2024 2:26 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Rebecca Arrowood <rmarrowood12 at me.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] taking the MPRE?

Good afternoon,

The most important part is that you request for accommodations and get receipt of the approved accommodations before you actually register for the exam, otherwise you will not be able to use those accommodations for any exam that you registered for

Best,
Rebecca Arrowood


> On Aug 29, 2024, at 2:23 PM, Cecilia Martinez via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> hi, this semester I am taking a professional responsibility class which is meant to prepare me to take the mpre. For those who have taken it, how far in advance did you submit your accommodations request? Anything I should know about submitting that request and asking for accommodations?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rmarrowood12%40me.com

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From seifs at umich.edu  Thu Aug 29 19:09:34 2024
From: seifs at umich.edu (Seif-Eldeen Saqallah)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 15:09:34 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] taking the MPRE?
In-Reply-To: <84DDCBCD-75E9-4521-9164-A928ABC3263F@gmail.com>
References: <84DDCBCD-75E9-4521-9164-A928ABC3263F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3kOQcPoK7WGbMqyXBdAsZ+N0ovj2+jc1-vZH9ynUC-or+vHA@mail.gmail.com>

I second everything said. The national conference of bar examiners is a
pain when requesting accommodations; sometimes, they challenge you for
stupid reasons. I would try to have enough time for reconsideration if
necessary.
Accommodation related, feel free to sign up for all of the free MPRE
courses offered to help study for that exam and see which one you like
learning best; That might give you an idea as to which one you would prefer
studying with for the bar.
Happy to talk more about this, even by phone if convenient for you.

Sincerely,
Seif

From glnorman15 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 29 19:14:48 2024
From: glnorman15 at hotmail.com (GL Norman)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 19:14:48 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Free CLE Offered by National Assoc. of State Tres.
Message-ID: <CO1PR05MB83484589808E480D833B7942D1962@CO1PR05MB8348.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Friends:
I enjoyed, last year, the great pleasure to co-speak at the Mid-Atlantic conference, meeting the current President of the D.C. Bar. He serves as CEO of the above captioned organization, requesting I share a CLE his organization will soon provide on the Able Act.

In partnership with the D.C. Bar, the ABLE CLE was developed for law professionals nationwide to provide an overview of how ABLE accounts can positively impact people with disabilities.

The CLE provides statutory background on ABLE accounts and explains eligibility requirements, account management, contribution limits, qualified expenses, as well as tax rules, etc. The online class also gives practice pointers for using ABLE accounts, including working with special needs trusts. The class can be accessed at www.abletoday.org/cle<https://www.abletoday.org/cle>. The course is free, and since it is hosted by the D.C. Bar, it should count toward CLE requirements in other states since we have reciprocity with nearly all states requiring CLE.  This CLE can go a long way in helping connect individuals with disabilities to a critical tool to help them save for living expenses without risking their benefits.





From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Fri Aug 30 04:14:32 2024
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (rothmanjd at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2024 00:14:32 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Free CLE Offered by National Assoc. of State Tres.
In-Reply-To: <CO1PR05MB83484589808E480D833B7942D1962@CO1PR05MB8348.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CO1PR05MB83484589808E480D833B7942D1962@CO1PR05MB8348.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0a2101dafa93$1e553c90$5affb5b0$@gmail.com>

We've actually shared this and heard a presentation at our annual conference
from them this past July.  The CLE is also accessible.  I urge folks to sign
up for it.

Ronza Othman, President
National Federation of the Blind of Maryland
443-426-4110
Pronouns: she, her, hers

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of GL Norman via
BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2024 3:15 PM
To: GL Norman <glnorman15 at hotmail.com>
Cc: GL Norman <glnorman15 at hotmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Free CLE Offered by National Assoc. of State Tres.

Friends:
I enjoyed, last year, the great pleasure to co-speak at the Mid-Atlantic
conference, meeting the current President of the D.C. Bar. He serves as CEO
of the above captioned organization, requesting I share a CLE his
organization will soon provide on the Able Act.

In partnership with the D.C. Bar, the ABLE CLE was developed for law
professionals nationwide to provide an overview of how ABLE accounts can
positively impact people with disabilities.

The CLE provides statutory background on ABLE accounts and explains
eligibility requirements, account management, contribution limits, qualified
expenses, as well as tax rules, etc. The online class also gives practice
pointers for using ABLE accounts, including working with special needs
trusts. The class can be accessed at
www.abletoday.org/cle<https://www.abletoday.org/cle>. The course is free,
and since it is hosted by the D.C. Bar, it should count toward CLE
requirements in other states since we have reciprocity with nearly all
states requiring CLE.  This CLE can go a long way in helping connect
individuals with disabilities to a critical tool to help them save for
living expenses without risking their benefits.




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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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BlindLaw:
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