[blindLaw] assistance with accommodations for visual formatting in law school.

Tue Nov 5 18:03:11 UTC 2024

FWIW: the large majority of attorneys (blind and sighted) have others proof reading their documents for these formatting issues and other common typographical errors.  Some firms even have dedicated word processing departments for such tasks.  This is usually due to billing efficiency. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Alcidonis <rodalcidonis at gmail.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2024 9:33 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>; tim at timeldermusic.com
Cc: 'Natalia Sulca' <nssulca at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [blindLaw] assistance with accommodations for visual formatting in law school.

I am in agreement with you that JAWS cannot convey visual formatting accurately; however, if you know how the content should be formatted, JAWS does provide you with enough interpretive information to work with a sighted assistant to format your document accurately.

Bottomline, you will need to work with sighted assistance to ensure that what you envision your document looking like, is what it is actually in its final form.

I personally would never, for the sake of my reputation, present any document as final to a court or a professor without first having had it verified visually. JAWS Is not there yet. And I say this as an attorney who also write scripts for JAWS and also code.

This is not to say you shouldn't make the effort to first format the document on your own. You need to know enough to direct your assistant -- I want this heading bolded. I want to ensure that this word is indeed highlighted. I want to check my indentations, etc. You should be able to ask questions, such as: if I have a heading 2 here, is there sufficient contrast with the rest of the paragraph? You need to have a firm understanding as to what certain formatting convey visually. What does it mean when you bold your text, highlight it, or italicize it. These are concepts that are fundamental to effective legal writing whether you are blind or sighted.

It also helps to have sample documents that you have written and know to have been formatted the way you like to guide the discussion.

It is helpful to have your reader read the document to you as currently formatted so you can point out the corrections you want to make. As I pointed out, you need to be able to direct the conversation. For example, please read this paragraph for me and verbalize all the bolded text as they come up. While JAWS can identify different formatting, again, here, we are speaking in terms of verifying and finalizing the document visually for presentation. 

Hope this helps.

Rod,

Rod Alcidonis, Esq.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Natalia Sulca via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2024 11:58 AM
To: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Natalia Sulca <nssulca at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] assistance with accommodations for visual formatting in law school.

Hello,

I am an advanced jaws and braille user. My husband is also an advanced IT instructor. I know the commands for word for track changes, formatting, settings, etc. This is why I say with complete accuracy because there are some things that jaws cannot point out completely and that I can not verify with braille if the professor isn't teaching me or I am not being accommodated with someone who is able to instruct me.
Best,
Natalia Sulca 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tim Elder via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2024 10:42 AM
To: 'Sanho Steele-Louchart' <sanho817 at gmail.com>; 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Tim Elder <tim at timeldermusic.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] assistance with accommodations for visual formatting in law school.

" a screen reader cannot convey visual layout, font color, or alignment with much accuracy."  This is not a true statement.  In addition to getting a human reader to verify formatting.  You might also get a private tutor from VR to help teach you advanced screen reader functionality and/or Braille, which does designate many formatting attributes in both audio and Braille.  I had a private instructor show me all the advanced track changes and other Microsoft Word formatting functions with JAWS during my 1L.  I also used a Braille display.  Most folks aren't fast enough to efficiently use Braille for everything.  I certainly wasn't.  Even if you aren't a fast Braille reader, you can use it for verifying the citations.  You'll need to find someone very particular/advanced  for this instruction.  The average AT trainer won't have a clue.

Stay encouraged.  IF you work hard you will eventually develop a system for formatting. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2024 1:29 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] assistance with accommodations for visual formatting in law school.

Natalia: 

Typically, the accommodation in this instance is to provide a reader to assist in spotchecking for formatting, not to omit formatting requirements altogether. You would need to know what to do, then have the reader confirm that things are how you want them. This is especially important if you plan to litigate. 

Sanho 

> On Nov 4, 2024, at 4:19 PM, Natalia Sulca via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm reaching out for advice regarding a challenging situation I'm 
> facing with accommodations in my legal writing course. I am currently 
> a 1l. I've encountered ongoing issues with my school's unwillingness 
> to exempt me from visual formatting requirements under the Bluebook, 
> such as font color, precise alignment, italics versus underlining, and 
> other specific typographic elements. These requirements are heavily 
> visual, yet they directly impact my grades, even though I have no way 
> to ensure compliance independently.
> 
> Despite repeatedly requesting and being promised accommodations, my 
> school has yet to deliver any workable solution. I continue to receive 
> grade deductions for elements I cannot see or verify, like page 
> numbers, font colors, and specific visual preferences. My professor 
> prefers certain Bluebook elements to be underlined rather than 
> italicized, which conflicts with both the instructions and my ability 
> to format accurately with JAWS limitations. Points are regularly taken 
> off for such details, significantly affecting my grades.
> 
> I have tried explaining that a screen reader cannot convey visual 
> layout, font color, or alignment with much accuracy, especially if I 
> assign it one way and word randomly changes it as its prone to happen.
> I have also explained  that dictating these elements to someone else 
> is impractical since I cannot visually guide or verify the end result.
> Despite my efforts, the school has been reluctant to implement a 
> content-only grading approach, which I believe would be a fair and 
> appropriate solution. This has left me feeling increasingly 
> frustrated, as my academic performance is being evaluated on factors that are inaccessible to me as a blind student.
> 
> I would be very grateful for any advice on how to approach this situation.
> Has anyone on this list encountered a similar issue, and if so, what 
> strategies or resources were helpful? I want to find a way to advocate 
> effectively for accommodations that allow my work to be assessed on 
> content and legal understanding, rather than visual formatting 
> elements that I cannot independently control.
> 
> Thank you all for your time and guidance.
> 
> Best regards,
> Natalia Sulca
> 
> 
> 
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