From abagais1 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  1 07:10:17 2024
From: abagais1 at hotmail.com (Abdulrahman Bagais)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 07:10:17 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
Message-ID: <AS8P250MB0008BE64BC85CF80E238114D80912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi Everyone,

I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.

I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc. 

If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.

Best,
Abdulrahman

From mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  1 11:15:34 2024
From: mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com (Marcos Rodrigues)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 11:15:34 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <AS8P250MB0008BE64BC85CF80E238114D80912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AS8P250MB0008BE64BC85CF80E238114D80912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <BL3P221MB035551DBDF06EE59235C6CC2CD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Good morning.

I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.

You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..

Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.

Regards.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
> 
> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
> 
> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
> 
> Best,
> Abdulrahman
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40hotmail.com

From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 12:44:06 2024
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 08:44:06 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <BL3P221MB035551DBDF06EE59235C6CC2CD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BL3P221MB035551DBDF06EE59235C6CC2CD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <18F8DACA-6CBB-4394-A70E-4A1A683DCA90@yahoo.com>

I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list. 
Best of luck with your decision!
James 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good morning.
> 
> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
> 
> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
> 
> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
> 
> Regards.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Everyone,
>> 
>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>> 
>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>> 
>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Abdulrahman
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com



From abagais1 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  1 18:48:54 2024
From: abagais1 at hotmail.com (Abdulrahman Bagais)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 18:48:54 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <18F8DACA-6CBB-4394-A70E-4A1A683DCA90@yahoo.com>
References: <BL3P221MB035551DBDF06EE59235C6CC2CD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <18F8DACA-6CBB-4394-A70E-4A1A683DCA90@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AS8P250MB0008577D53685FB8C512755C80912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc. 

Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.

Best,
Abdulrahman

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James Fetter via BlindLaw
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US

I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list. 
Best of luck with your decision!
James 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good morning.
> 
> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
> 
> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
> 
> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
> 
> Regards.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Everyone,
>> 
>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>> 
>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>> 
>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Abdulrahman
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com


_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotmail.com

From mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  1 20:08:25 2024
From: mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com (Marcos Rodrigues)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 20:08:25 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <AS8P250MB0008577D53685FB8C512755C80912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BL3P221MB035551DBDF06EE59235C6CC2CD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <18F8DACA-6CBB-4394-A70E-4A1A683DCA90@yahoo.com>
 <AS8P250MB0008577D53685FB8C512755C80912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <BL3P221MB03558755210916AF6F77E95BCD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.

Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.

Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.

Regards.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
> 
> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
> 
> Best,
> Abdulrahman
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James Fetter via BlindLaw
> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
> 
> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
> Best of luck with your decision!
> James
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning.
>> 
>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>> 
>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>> 
>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>> 
>> Regards.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>> 
>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>> 
>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>> 
>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Abdulrahman
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40hotmail.com

From abagais1 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  1 20:19:27 2024
From: abagais1 at hotmail.com (Abdulrahman Bagais)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 20:19:27 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <BL3P221MB03558755210916AF6F77E95BCD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BL3P221MB035551DBDF06EE59235C6CC2CD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <18F8DACA-6CBB-4394-A70E-4A1A683DCA90@yahoo.com>
 <AS8P250MB0008577D53685FB8C512755C80912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL3P221MB03558755210916AF6F77E95BCD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <AS8P250MB00080161D5586CDD40B8046180912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thanks, Marcos - good to know about LSac. I will be doing IELTS test, so would it be as acceptable as Toefl by various universities? 

In terms of the accelerated JD or JD for international students, is it a program that can be taken along with an LLM? Or before doing the LLM?

Best,
Abdul

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 11:10 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.
> 
> Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.
> 
> Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.
> 
> Regards.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
>> 
>> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Abdulrahman
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James Fetter via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>> 
>> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
>> Best of luck with your decision!
>> James
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Good morning.
>>> 
>>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>>> 
>>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>>> 
>>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>>> 
>>> Regards.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>>> 
>>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>>> 
>>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40hotmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotmail.com

From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au  Sun Sep  1 22:00:15 2024
From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 22:00:15 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <AS8P250MB00080161D5586CDD40B8046180912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BL3P221MB035551DBDF06EE59235C6CC2CD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <18F8DACA-6CBB-4394-A70E-4A1A683DCA90@yahoo.com>
 <AS8P250MB0008577D53685FB8C512755C80912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL3P221MB03558755210916AF6F77E95BCD912@BL3P221MB0355.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <AS8P250MB00080161D5586CDD40B8046180912@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <SYYP282MB115270A98F55B865F758737D98912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Before picking a country or a university I'd think what do you want from the year.  I'm a professor at a university in Australia and our school has particular strengths.  Other universities around the world have critical masses of professors in different areas doing different stuff.  So work out your future direction and search law reviews and books for who is leading on that and see where they are at.
If your firm has connections with law firms in certain cities, it might be stratetically smart to be near one of those so you can see if you could do some paralegal work with them while doing your LLM or even just go to some of their social functions and build your network.
As a totally blind person I cannot drive so want somewhere with public transport.  I also like cities where the murder rate is not massive.  
Professor Paul Harpur OAM   
BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
The University of Queensland Law School
(TEQSA PRV12080)  

Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
Australian Research Council Future Fellow
Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel 

“Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 6:19 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US

Thanks, Marcos - good to know about LSac. I will be doing IELTS test, so would it be as acceptable as Toefl by various universities? 

In terms of the accelerated JD or JD for international students, is it a program that can be taken along with an LLM? Or before doing the LLM?

Best,
Abdul

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 11:10 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.
> 
> Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.
> 
> Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.
> 
> Regards.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
>> 
>> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Abdulrahman
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James 
>> Fetter via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>> 
>> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
>> Best of luck with your decision!
>> James
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Good morning.
>>> 
>>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>>> 
>>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>>> 
>>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>>> 
>>> Regards.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>>> 
>>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>>> 
>>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%
>>>> 40hotmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yah
>>> oo.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotm
>> ail.com _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40
>> hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotma
> il.com
_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
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From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 22:42:15 2024
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 18:42:15 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <SYYP282MB115270A98F55B865F758737D98912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <SYYP282MB115270A98F55B865F758737D98912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <9358656E-A409-4C1B-A84C-800BE60D6888@yahoo.com>

Taking the crime rate into consideration is not a bad idea.  That would weigh heavily against Baltimore, Chicago, etc.
It may also be worth asking your firm whether they recommend or prefer specific programs. For example, a firm like Kirkland Ellis might have a strong preference that you attend a program at a top-14 law school: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Before picking a country or a university I'd think what do you want from the year.  I'm a professor at a university in Australia and our school has particular strengths.  Other universities around the world have critical masses of professors in different areas doing different stuff.  So work out your future direction and search law reviews and books for who is leading on that and see where they are at.
> If your firm has connections with law firms in certain cities, it might be stratetically smart to be near one of those so you can see if you could do some paralegal work with them while doing your LLM or even just go to some of their social functions and build your network.
> As a totally blind person I cannot drive so want somewhere with public transport.  I also like cities where the murder rate is not massive.  
> Professor Paul Harpur OAM  
> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
> The University of Queensland Law School
> (TEQSA PRV12080) 
> 
> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
> Australian Research Council Future Fellow
> Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel
> 
> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw
> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 6:19 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
> 
> Thanks, Marcos - good to know about LSac. I will be doing IELTS test, so would it be as acceptable as Toefl by various universities?
> 
> In terms of the accelerated JD or JD for international students, is it a program that can be taken along with an LLM? Or before doing the LLM?
> 
> Best,
> Abdul
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 11:10 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.
>> 
>> Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.
>> 
>> Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.
>> 
>> Regards.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
>>> 
>>> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Abdulrahman
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James
>>> Fetter via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>> 
>>> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
>>> Best of luck with your decision!
>>> James
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Good morning.
>>>> 
>>>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>>>> 
>>>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>>>> 
>>>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%
>>>>> 40hotmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yah
>>>> oo.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotm
>>> ail.com _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40
>>> hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotma
>> il.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo.com



From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au  Sun Sep  1 22:57:48 2024
From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 22:57:48 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <9358656E-A409-4C1B-A84C-800BE60D6888@yahoo.com>
References: <SYYP282MB115270A98F55B865F758737D98912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <9358656E-A409-4C1B-A84C-800BE60D6888@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SYYP282MB1152540044982934A51ABE2498912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Do not just check the crime rate, but also ask pointed questions.  I was having beers at a conference with a bunch of folks after a conference and we were talking about their PhD experiences.  Some cities were day time cities - so after dark it was not safe.  Perhaps the US folks will have a different view on open carry cities, but I find people walking around with guns really freaky.  In Australia we had a shooting back in 1996 and our Federal Government had a buy back so there are very few guns in homes now.  

Professor Paul Harpur OAM   
BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
The University of Queensland Law School
(TEQSA PRV12080)  

Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
Australian Research Council Future Fellow
Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel 

“Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James Fetter via BlindLaw
Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 8:42 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US

Taking the crime rate into consideration is not a bad idea.  That would weigh heavily against Baltimore, Chicago, etc.
It may also be worth asking your firm whether they recommend or prefer specific programs. For example, a firm like Kirkland Ellis might have a strong preference that you attend a program at a top-14 law school: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Before picking a country or a university I'd think what do you want from the year.  I'm a professor at a university in Australia and our school has particular strengths.  Other universities around the world have critical masses of professors in different areas doing different stuff.  So work out your future direction and search law reviews and books for who is leading on that and see where they are at.
> If your firm has connections with law firms in certain cities, it might be stratetically smart to be near one of those so you can see if you could do some paralegal work with them while doing your LLM or even just go to some of their social functions and build your network.
> As a totally blind person I cannot drive so want somewhere with public transport.  I also like cities where the murder rate is not massive.  
> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of 
> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law 
> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
> 
> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian 
> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education 
> Standards Panel
> 
> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman 
> Bagais via BlindLaw
> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 6:19 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
> 
> Thanks, Marcos - good to know about LSac. I will be doing IELTS test, so would it be as acceptable as Toefl by various universities?
> 
> In terms of the accelerated JD or JD for international students, is it a program that can be taken along with an LLM? Or before doing the LLM?
> 
> Best,
> Abdul
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 11:10 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.
>> 
>> Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.
>> 
>> Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.
>> 
>> Regards.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
>>> 
>>> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Abdulrahman
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James 
>>> Fetter via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>> 
>>> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
>>> Best of luck with your decision!
>>> James
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Good morning.
>>>> 
>>>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>>>> 
>>>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>>>> 
>>>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81
>>>>> %
>>>>> 40hotmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40ya
>>>> h
>>>> oo.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hot
>>> m ail.com _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%4
>>> 0
>>> hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotm
>> a
>> il.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gma
> il.com _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo
> .com


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
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From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 23:31:04 2024
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 19:31:04 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <SYYP282MB1152540044982934A51ABE2498912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <SYYP282MB1152540044982934A51ABE2498912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <B7BBD8EC-99D1-435A-B0EE-F1D088A99A06@yahoo.com>

Good point. In Baltimore, for example, shootings in broad daylight are by no means unheard of, nor are daytime stabbings  in metro stations. We unfortunately don’t have enough sense to follow Australia’s example and take most guns out of circulation. 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:57 PM, Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> 
> Do not just check the crime rate, but also ask pointed questions.  I was having beers at a conference with a bunch of folks after a conference and we were talking about their PhD experiences.  Some cities were day time cities - so after dark it was not safe.  Perhaps the US folks will have a different view on open carry cities, but I find people walking around with guns really freaky.  In Australia we had a shooting back in 1996 and our Federal Government had a buy back so there are very few guns in homes now.  
> 
> Professor Paul Harpur OAM  
> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
> The University of Queensland Law School
> (TEQSA PRV12080) 
> 
> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
> Australian Research Council Future Fellow
> Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel
> 
> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James Fetter via BlindLaw
> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 8:42 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
> 
> Taking the crime rate into consideration is not a bad idea.  That would weigh heavily against Baltimore, Chicago, etc.
> It may also be worth asking your firm whether they recommend or prefer specific programs. For example, a firm like Kirkland Ellis might have a strong preference that you attend a program at a top-14 law school: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Before picking a country or a university I'd think what do you want from the year.  I'm a professor at a university in Australia and our school has particular strengths.  Other universities around the world have critical masses of professors in different areas doing different stuff.  So work out your future direction and search law reviews and books for who is leading on that and see where they are at.
>> If your firm has connections with law firms in certain cities, it might be stratetically smart to be near one of those so you can see if you could do some paralegal work with them while doing your LLM or even just go to some of their social functions and build your network.
>> As a totally blind person I cannot drive so want somewhere with public transport.  I also like cities where the murder rate is not massive.  
>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of
>> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law
>> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
>> 
>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian
>> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education
>> Standards Panel
>> 
>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman
>> Bagais via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 6:19 AM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>> 
>> Thanks, Marcos - good to know about LSac. I will be doing IELTS test, so would it be as acceptable as Toefl by various universities?
>> 
>> In terms of the accelerated JD or JD for international students, is it a program that can be taken along with an LLM? Or before doing the LLM?
>> 
>> Best,
>> Abdul
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 11:10 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.
>>> 
>>> Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.
>>> 
>>> Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.
>>> 
>>> Regards.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James
>>>> Fetter via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>>> 
>>>> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
>>>> Best of luck with your decision!
>>>> James
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good morning.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>>>>> 
>>>>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81
>>>>>> %
>>>>>> 40hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40ya
>>>>> h
>>>>> oo.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hot
>>>> m ail.com _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%4
>>>> 0
>>>> hotmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotm
>>> a
>>> il.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gma
>> il.com _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yahoo
>> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com



From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au  Sun Sep  1 23:42:45 2024
From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 23:42:45 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <B7BBD8EC-99D1-435A-B0EE-F1D088A99A06@yahoo.com>
References: <SYYP282MB1152540044982934A51ABE2498912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <B7BBD8EC-99D1-435A-B0EE-F1D088A99A06@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SYYP282MB115215F1C44F26628B22208598912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

WOW!  We had a shooting about 30 minutes drive north of the city in Jan 2024 but that seems to be our last bit of gun violence.  that was reported as being in Brisbane, but if you look at the city limits this actually took place outside Brisbane by around 10 miles.  


Professor Paul Harpur OAM   
BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
The University of Queensland Law School
(TEQSA PRV12080)  

Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
Australian Research Council Future Fellow
Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel 

“Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 9:31 AM
To: Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au>
Cc: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US

Good point. In Baltimore, for example, shootings in broad daylight are by no means unheard of, nor are daytime stabbings  in metro stations. We unfortunately don’t have enough sense to follow Australia’s example and take most guns out of circulation. 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:57 PM, Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> 
> Do not just check the crime rate, but also ask pointed questions.  I was having beers at a conference with a bunch of folks after a conference and we were talking about their PhD experiences.  Some cities were day time cities - so after dark it was not safe.  Perhaps the US folks will have a different view on open carry cities, but I find people walking around with guns really freaky.  In Australia we had a shooting back in 1996 and our Federal Government had a buy back so there are very few guns in homes now.  
> 
> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of 
> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law 
> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
> 
> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian 
> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education 
> Standards Panel
> 
> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James Fetter 
> via BlindLaw
> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 8:42 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
> 
> Taking the crime rate into consideration is not a bad idea.  That would weigh heavily against Baltimore, Chicago, etc.
> It may also be worth asking your firm whether they recommend or prefer specific programs. For example, a firm like Kirkland Ellis might have a strong preference that you attend a program at a top-14 law school: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Before picking a country or a university I'd think what do you want from the year.  I'm a professor at a university in Australia and our school has particular strengths.  Other universities around the world have critical masses of professors in different areas doing different stuff.  So work out your future direction and search law reviews and books for who is leading on that and see where they are at.
>> If your firm has connections with law firms in certain cities, it might be stratetically smart to be near one of those so you can see if you could do some paralegal work with them while doing your LLM or even just go to some of their social functions and build your network.
>> As a totally blind person I cannot drive so want somewhere with public transport.  I also like cities where the murder rate is not massive.  
>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of 
>> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law 
>> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
>> 
>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian 
>> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education 
>> Standards Panel
>> 
>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman 
>> Bagais via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 6:19 AM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>> 
>> Thanks, Marcos - good to know about LSac. I will be doing IELTS test, so would it be as acceptable as Toefl by various universities?
>> 
>> In terms of the accelerated JD or JD for international students, is it a program that can be taken along with an LLM? Or before doing the LLM?
>> 
>> Best,
>> Abdul
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 11:10 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.
>>> 
>>> Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.
>>> 
>>> Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.
>>> 
>>> Regards.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James 
>>>> Fetter via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>>> 
>>>> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
>>>> Best of luck with your decision!
>>>> James
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good morning.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>>>>> 
>>>>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues8
>>>>>> 1
>>>>>> %
>>>>>> 40hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40y
>>>>> a
>>>>> h
>>>>> oo.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40ho
>>>> t m ail.com _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%
>>>> 4
>>>> 0
>>>> hotmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hot
>>> m
>>> a
>>> il.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gm
>> a il.com _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yaho
>> o
>> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gma
> il.com


From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  2 00:08:32 2024
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 20:08:32 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <SYYP282MB115215F1C44F26628B22208598912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <SYYP282MB115215F1C44F26628B22208598912@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <9BCAE0BE-C0D4-4E79-A932-06A71E2BCF33@yahoo.com>

It’s sad; murders in cities like Baltimore have become the cultural equivalent of background noise. The political establishment barely pretends to care, and gun control is stuck in never-ending partisan battles. I’m privileged enough to live  in a fairly safe suburban area and to work remotely, and you couldn’t pay me enough to live in certain cities in this country.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:42 PM, Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> 
> WOW!  We had a shooting about 30 minutes drive north of the city in Jan 2024 but that seems to be our last bit of gun violence.  that was reported as being in Brisbane, but if you look at the city limits this actually took place outside Brisbane by around 10 miles.  
> 
> 
> Professor Paul Harpur OAM  
> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
> The University of Queensland Law School
> (TEQSA PRV12080) 
> 
> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
> Australian Research Council Future Fellow
> Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel
> 
> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 9:31 AM
> To: Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au>
> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
> 
> Good point. In Baltimore, for example, shootings in broad daylight are by no means unheard of, nor are daytime stabbings  in metro stations. We unfortunately don’t have enough sense to follow Australia’s example and take most guns out of circulation.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:57 PM, Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>> 
>> Do not just check the crime rate, but also ask pointed questions.  I was having beers at a conference with a bunch of folks after a conference and we were talking about their PhD experiences.  Some cities were day time cities - so after dark it was not safe.  Perhaps the US folks will have a different view on open carry cities, but I find people walking around with guns really freaky.  In Australia we had a shooting back in 1996 and our Federal Government had a buy back so there are very few guns in homes now.  
>> 
>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of
>> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law
>> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
>> 
>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian
>> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education
>> Standards Panel
>> 
>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James Fetter
>> via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 8:42 AM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>> 
>> Taking the crime rate into consideration is not a bad idea.  That would weigh heavily against Baltimore, Chicago, etc.
>> It may also be worth asking your firm whether they recommend or prefer specific programs. For example, a firm like Kirkland Ellis might have a strong preference that you attend a program at a top-14 law school: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Before picking a country or a university I'd think what do you want from the year.  I'm a professor at a university in Australia and our school has particular strengths.  Other universities around the world have critical masses of professors in different areas doing different stuff.  So work out your future direction and search law reviews and books for who is leading on that and see where they are at.
>>> If your firm has connections with law firms in certain cities, it might be stratetically smart to be near one of those so you can see if you could do some paralegal work with them while doing your LLM or even just go to some of their social functions and build your network.
>>> As a totally blind person I cannot drive so want somewhere with public transport.  I also like cities where the murder rate is not massive.  
>>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of
>>> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law
>>> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
>>> 
>>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian
>>> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education
>>> Standards Panel
>>> 
>>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman
>>> Bagais via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 6:19 AM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Marcos - good to know about LSac. I will be doing IELTS test, so would it be as acceptable as Toefl by various universities?
>>> 
>>> In terms of the accelerated JD or JD for international students, is it a program that can be taken along with an LLM? Or before doing the LLM?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Abdul
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 11:10 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.
>>>> 
>>>> Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.
>>>> 
>>>> Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James
>>>>> Fetter via BlindLaw
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>>>> 
>>>>> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
>>>>> Best of luck with your decision!
>>>>> James
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good morning.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues8
>>>>>>> 1
>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>> 40hotmail.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40y
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> h
>>>>>> oo.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40ho
>>>>> t m ail.com _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%
>>>>> 4
>>>>> 0
>>>>> hotmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hot
>>>> m
>>>> a
>>>> il.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gm
>>> a il.com _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yaho
>>> o
>>> .com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gma
>> il.com
> 



From abagais1 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  2 18:02:48 2024
From: abagais1 at hotmail.com (Abdulrahman Bagais)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 18:02:48 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <9BCAE0BE-C0D4-4E79-A932-06A71E2BCF33@yahoo.com>
References: <9BCAE0BE-C0D4-4E79-A932-06A71E2BCF33@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AS8P250MB00089E37FAC29D1C2EE5D08E80922@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thank you so much all for sharing this very useful information. Of course public transport, safety…etc are important things to be taken into consideration! Also, in terms of which law school, I think yes for Kirkland (and generally big law) are expecting LLM from top law school, but the thing is that how to know what best law schools as per the program/specialty (eg corporate law, environmental law, IP…etc)? Any resources recommended for searching this?

Thank you,
Abdul

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2024, at 3:10 AM, James Fetter via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> It’s sad; murders in cities like Baltimore have become the cultural equivalent of background noise. The political establishment barely pretends to care, and gun control is stuck in never-ending partisan battles. I’m privileged enough to live  in a fairly safe suburban area and to work remotely, and you couldn’t pay me enough to live in certain cities in this country.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:42 PM, Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>> 
>> WOW!  We had a shooting about 30 minutes drive north of the city in Jan 2024 but that seems to be our last bit of gun violence.  that was reported as being in Brisbane, but if you look at the city limits this actually took place outside Brisbane by around 10 miles.  
>> 
>> 
>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM  
>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
>> The University of Queensland Law School
>> (TEQSA PRV12080) 
>> 
>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
>> Australian Research Council Future Fellow
>> Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel
>> 
>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 9:31 AM
>> To: Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au>
>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>> 
>> Good point. In Baltimore, for example, shootings in broad daylight are by no means unheard of, nor are daytime stabbings  in metro stations. We unfortunately don’t have enough sense to follow Australia’s example and take most guns out of circulation.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:57 PM, Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Do not just check the crime rate, but also ask pointed questions.  I was having beers at a conference with a bunch of folks after a conference and we were talking about their PhD experiences.  Some cities were day time cities - so after dark it was not safe.  Perhaps the US folks will have a different view on open carry cities, but I find people walking around with guns really freaky.  In Australia we had a shooting back in 1996 and our Federal Government had a buy back so there are very few guns in homes now.  
>>> 
>>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of
>>> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law
>>> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
>>> 
>>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian
>>> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education
>>> Standards Panel
>>> 
>>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James Fetter
>>> via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 8:42 AM
>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>> 
>>> Taking the crime rate into consideration is not a bad idea.  That would weigh heavily against Baltimore, Chicago, etc.
>>> It may also be worth asking your firm whether they recommend or prefer specific programs. For example, a firm like Kirkland Ellis might have a strong preference that you attend a program at a top-14 law school: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Before picking a country or a university I'd think what do you want from the year.  I'm a professor at a university in Australia and our school has particular strengths.  Other universities around the world have critical masses of professors in different areas doing different stuff.  So work out your future direction and search law reviews and books for who is leading on that and see where they are at.
>>>> If your firm has connections with law firms in certain cities, it might be stratetically smart to be near one of those so you can see if you could do some paralegal work with them while doing your LLM or even just go to some of their social functions and build your network.
>>>> As a totally blind person I cannot drive so want somewhere with public transport.  I also like cities where the murder rate is not massive.  
>>>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law
>>>> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
>>>> 
>>>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian
>>>> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education
>>>> Standards Panel
>>>> 
>>>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman
>>>> Bagais via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 6:19 AM
>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, Marcos - good to know about LSac. I will be doing IELTS test, so would it be as acceptable as Toefl by various universities?
>>>> 
>>>> In terms of the accelerated JD or JD for international students, is it a program that can be taken along with an LLM? Or before doing the LLM?
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Abdul
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 11:10 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James
>>>>>> Fetter via BlindLaw
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
>>>>>> Best of luck with your decision!
>>>>>> James
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Good morning.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues8
>>>>>>>> 1
>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>> 40hotmail.com
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40y
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>> oo.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40ho
>>>>>> t m ail.com _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%
>>>>>> 4
>>>>>> 0
>>>>>> hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hot
>>>>> m
>>>>> a
>>>>> il.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gm
>>>> a il.com _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yaho
>>>> o
>>>> .com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gma
>>> il.com
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotmail.com

From jtfetter at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  2 20:00:01 2024
From: jtfetter at yahoo.com (James Fetter)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 16:00:01 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
In-Reply-To: <AS8P250MB00089E37FAC29D1C2EE5D08E80922@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AS8P250MB00089E37FAC29D1C2EE5D08E80922@AS8P250MB0008.EURP250.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <AA6B35A5-F991-455C-9034-5E5D458D8BB9@yahoo.com>

Firms like Kirkland will be happy with a credential from a top-14 (t-14) law school. Ranking by specialty isn’t generally all that important.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2024, at 2:02 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thank you so much all for sharing this very useful information. Of course public transport, safety…etc are important things to be taken into consideration! Also, in terms of which law school, I think yes for Kirkland (and generally big law) are expecting LLM from top law school, but the thing is that how to know what best law schools as per the program/specialty (eg corporate law, environmental law, IP…etc)? Any resources recommended for searching this?
> 
> Thank you,
> Abdul
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2024, at 3:10 AM, James Fetter via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> It’s sad; murders in cities like Baltimore have become the cultural equivalent of background noise. The political establishment barely pretends to care, and gun control is stuck in never-ending partisan battles. I’m privileged enough to live  in a fairly safe suburban area and to work remotely, and you couldn’t pay me enough to live in certain cities in this country.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:42 PM, Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>>> 
>>> WOW!  We had a shooting about 30 minutes drive north of the city in Jan 2024 but that seems to be our last bit of gun violence.  that was reported as being in Brisbane, but if you look at the city limits this actually took place outside Brisbane by around 10 miles.  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM  
>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
>>> The University of Queensland Law School
>>> (TEQSA PRV12080)
>>> 
>>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
>>> Australian Research Council Future Fellow
>>> Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel
>>> 
>>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 9:31 AM
>>> To: Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au>
>>> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>> 
>>> Good point. In Baltimore, for example, shootings in broad daylight are by no means unheard of, nor are daytime stabbings  in metro stations. We unfortunately don’t have enough sense to follow Australia’s example and take most guns out of circulation.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:57 PM, Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Do not just check the crime rate, but also ask pointed questions.  I was having beers at a conference with a bunch of folks after a conference and we were talking about their PhD experiences.  Some cities were day time cities - so after dark it was not safe.  Perhaps the US folks will have a different view on open carry cities, but I find people walking around with guns really freaky.  In Australia we had a shooting back in 1996 and our Federal Government had a buy back so there are very few guns in homes now.  
>>>> 
>>>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law
>>>> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
>>>> 
>>>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian
>>>> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education
>>>> Standards Panel
>>>> 
>>>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James Fetter
>>>> via BlindLaw
>>>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 8:42 AM
>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>>> 
>>>> Taking the crime rate into consideration is not a bad idea.  That would weigh heavily against Baltimore, Chicago, etc.
>>>> It may also be worth asking your firm whether they recommend or prefer specific programs. For example, a firm like Kirkland Ellis might have a strong preference that you attend a program at a top-14 law school: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Before picking a country or a university I'd think what do you want from the year.  I'm a professor at a university in Australia and our school has particular strengths.  Other universities around the world have critical masses of professors in different areas doing different stuff.  So work out your future direction and search law reviews and books for who is leading on that and see where they are at.
>>>>> If your firm has connections with law firms in certain cities, it might be stratetically smart to be near one of those so you can see if you could do some paralegal work with them while doing your LLM or even just go to some of their social functions and build your network.
>>>>> As a totally blind person I cannot drive so want somewhere with public transport.  I also like cities where the murder rate is not massive.  
>>>>> Professor Paul Harpur OAM
>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>>> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law
>>>>> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian
>>>>> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education
>>>>> Standards Panel
>>>>> 
>>>>> “Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive”.  Paul Harpur, ‘Universities as Disability Champions of Change’ TEDx.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Abdulrahman
>>>>> Bagais via BlindLaw
>>>>> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2024 6:19 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Abdulrahman Bagais <abagais1 at hotmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks, Marcos - good to know about LSac. I will be doing IELTS test, so would it be as acceptable as Toefl by various universities?
>>>>> 
>>>>> In terms of the accelerated JD or JD for international students, is it a program that can be taken along with an LLM? Or before doing the LLM?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Abdul
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 11:10 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I used LSAC for my applications and found it accessible.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Did you already take the toefl exam? This will be your first step.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Another program you should consider is an accelerated JD or JD for international students that will take into account some credits you took in your home country.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Many thanks all for sharing your experiences and offering your help. For me at this stage, I am mainly trying to understand mor about the application process, how to build an excellent application, recommendation letters, deadlines for universities and how accessible generally the application process is…etc.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Any insights on these issues would be much appreciated.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of James
>>>>>>> Fetter via BlindLaw
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2024 3:44 PM
>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Doing LLM in the US
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I obtained my JD from the Ohio State University, and I cannot say enough good things about my experience. Everything was accessible, and I was fully included in all aspects of the program. The same cannot be said about the universities where I obtained my undergraduate and graduate degrees before going to law school: Emory University annd the University of Notre Dame. Those places, though arguably more prestigious, made me fight tooth and nail for every accommodation I needed and went out of their way to make me feel like a second-class member of the community. I don’t no very much about Ohio State’s LLM program, but if you do consider it, please feel free to contact me off list.
>>>>>>> Best of luck with your decision!
>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:17 AM, Marcos Rodrigues via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Good morning.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I did mine at the Ohio State University and liked it a lot. The school provided me with accessible materials and was very accomodating.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You should check the web site llmguide.com. It has a lot of good information about the schools and some discussion groups you might find interesting..
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Feel free to contact me off list if you want more information.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Abdulrahman Bagais via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I am planning to do my master’s in law (LLM) in either the US or the UK to start in autumn 2025.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I am currently a trainee associate at Kirkland & Ellis Riyadh office - in Saudi Arabia, and all big law here require an LLM from abroad for associate roles. I have started the process and the preparation to be ready to apply for admissions in the coming weeks. I started my research about the general process to apply for international students, but wondering if anything would be different for blind applicants. In general, I would be grateful for any advice/tips regarding the applications, choosing the university, general LLM or specialized programs, accessibility...etc.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If anyone in the same process/has gone through it, would be happy to chat and appreciate any insights on this – please feel free to message me off-list.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Abdulrahman
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues8
>>>>>>>>> 1
>>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>>> 40hotmail.com
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40y
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> h
>>>>>>>> oo.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40ho
>>>>>>> t m ail.com _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%
>>>>>>> 4
>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>> hotmail.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hot
>>>>>> m
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gm
>>>>> a il.com _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jtfetter%40yaho
>>>>> o
>>>>> .com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/abagais1%40hotmail.com



From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au  Tue Sep  3 02:18:44 2024
From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2024 02:18:44 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Petition started by one of Australia's most famous blind
 lawyers to call for a member of the VI community to be appointed to Vision
 Australia
Message-ID: <SYYP282MB1152EE171D3545A0DC33D6D698932@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Graeme Inns was Australia's Disability Human Rights Commissioner and now is the chancellor of a university.  Vision Australia, the equivalent of the NFB in Australia, is looking to appoint a new CEO and it might be a person who has no lived experience.  Chancellor Inns started this petition and seeks your signature and sharing:
https://www.change.org/p/open-letter-to-the-directors-of-vision-australia-urging-open-ceo-recruitment-process?source_location=psf_petitions


From ThomasDukeman at outlook.com  Tue Sep  3 02:21:23 2024
From: ThomasDukeman at outlook.com (Thomas Dukeman)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2024 02:21:23 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] LSAT Passing Score Rates
Message-ID: <IA1PR20MB645556D639CE7DA070F9E22DAD932@IA1PR20MB6455.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Hello!

It was recently brough to my attention that certain schools have something along the lines of better passing scores produced by their prep materials...? It was on one of the law-related podcasts I follow and it got me thinking more about that if it was true or not, how would I find that out? Would I need to be enrolled at a certain school to get their prep material? I am in my last semester to get my Associate and see my time getting my Bachelor as my time to get ready as best as possible for passing the LSAT

Another but related question is, are LSATs unique to specific states or is it a more universal thing that is standard through the USA?  Like would LSAT prep for going to a law school in a state other then the one I intend to be through still be useful?

I know my LSAT score will control how many opportunities I have for what law schools I can attend and that certain law schools are looked on more favorably then others. This is why I am trying to be as best prepared as I can be.

Thomas Dukeman










From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 00:14:20 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 19:14:20 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Public posting
Message-ID: <CACYGDrDD8tMOETNWpx3_O6jtRu6Te8eH417AbJSY9oyvnceSdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello I didn’t realize my messages posted here would be viewable to anyone
on the internet. Today I ran a search on my name on the internet and found
this.
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From sanho817 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 00:59:05 2024
From: sanho817 at gmail.com (Sanho Steele-Louchart)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 20:59:05 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Public posting
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrDD8tMOETNWpx3_O6jtRu6Te8eH417AbJSY9oyvnceSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACYGDrDD8tMOETNWpx3_O6jtRu6Te8eH417AbJSY9oyvnceSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <810D6230-7CAA-4F5A-BC50-6CD46B217398@gmail.com>

Yes. These messages are also discoverable in the rare instance someone posts something about anticipated or ongoing litigation/investigation. 

Sanho 

> On Sep 9, 2024, at 8:15 PM, Christine B via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello I didn’t realize my messages posted here would be viewable to anyone
> on the internet. Today I ran a search on my name on the internet and found
> this.
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
> <image_67147521.JPG>


From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 02:16:10 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 21:16:10 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Public posting
In-Reply-To: <810D6230-7CAA-4F5A-BC50-6CD46B217398@gmail.com>
References: <CACYGDrDD8tMOETNWpx3_O6jtRu6Te8eH417AbJSY9oyvnceSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <810D6230-7CAA-4F5A-BC50-6CD46B217398@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrBu7NPOoN5LSw+T5cstx_FGuHC-fz0+aQvY08L9h0YJpg@mail.gmail.com>

Last time posting here. Bye ya’ll.

On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 7:59 PM Sanho Steele-Louchart <sanho817 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Yes. These messages are also discoverable in the rare instance someone
> posts something about anticipated or ongoing litigation/investigation.
>
> Sanho
>
> > On Sep 9, 2024, at 8:15 PM, Christine B via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hello I didn’t realize my messages posted here would be viewable to
> anyone
> > on the internet. Today I ran a search on my name on the internet and
> found
> > this.
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindLaw mailing list
> > BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sanho817%40gmail.com
> > <image_67147521.JPG>
>

From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 02:23:11 2024
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (rothmanjd at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 22:23:11 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] NFB Critical Actions
Message-ID: <02ab01db0328$623c8470$26b58d50$@gmail.com>

All,

Below are some news items and critical actions from the NFB

 

 

News:

Rideshare Rally in San Francisco:

The National Federation of the Blind announced an upcoming Rideshare Rally
at the Lyft and Uber headquarters on October 15 in San Francisco,
California. Join our demonstration to protest rideshare discrimination
against blind people using guide dogs and white canes. Please let us know if
you are interested in attending this demonstration by submitting the
<https://nfb.org/programs-services/advocacy/rideshare-rally-interest>
Rideshare Rally Interest Form. We have secured a hotel block at the Crowne
Plaza near the San Francisco airport, and you can book a room at $139, plus
taxes and fees, per night.
<https://www.crowneplaza.com/redirect?path=asearch&brandCode=CP&localeCode=e
n&regionCode=1&hotelCode=URLCA&checkInDate=14&checkInMonthYear=092024&checkO
utDate=16&checkOutMonthYear=092024&rateCode=6CBARC&_PMID=99801505&GPC=BLD&cn
=no&viewfullsite=true> You can make your reservation on the Crowne Plaza
website. You can also call the hotel at 650-342-9200 and ask to reserve a
room in the "National Federation" block. The exact location and rally route
will be shared in the coming weeks. 

 

Accessible In-Person Voting Webinar:

One of our government affairs specialists, Jeff Kaloc, will be hosting a
Zoom webinar regarding accessible in-person voting on Thursday, September
12, at 12:00 p.m., eastern. The Zoom information for the webinar is below:

Join Zoom Meeting

 <https://nfb-org.zoom.us/j/97049830716>
https://nfb-org.zoom.us/j/97049830716 

Meeting ID: 970 4983 0716

 

Dare to Be Remarkable Conference: 

We are calling all rehabilitation professionals to submit your presentation
proposals by September 20 for the
<https://nfb.org/programs-services/employment/dare-be-remarkable> 2024
National Federation of the Blind Dare to Be Remarkable conference. The
conference will be held from November 11 - November 13 at the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute. 

 

Registration is $400 until October 5 and $500 after October 6. Register for
the event on our website,
<https://nfb.org/programs-services/employment/dare-be-remarkable> Dare to Be
Remarkable conference. 

 

Please direct all inquiries to the conference organizers, Edward Bell
(ebell at latech.edu <mailto:ebell at latech.edu>  or 318-257-4554) or Anil Lewis
(alewis at nfb.org <mailto:alewis at nfb.org>  or 410-659-9314, extension 2374).

 

Virtual Career Fair:

Register for the National Federation of the Blind Virtual Career Fair being
held October 22, 1:00-4:00 p.m., eastern, via Zoom. Jobseekers, this is an
opportunity to find your occupational passion. Employers, this is a chance
to connect with great talent. 

 <https://nfb.org/form/career-fair-jobseeker-registration> Career Fair -
Jobseeker Registration

 <https://nfb.org/civicrm/event/register?reset=1&id=606> Career Fair -
Employer Registration 

Jobseekers, please direct all questions to our jobseeker liaison, Lia Stone,
at  <mailto:evangeliastone at gmail.com> evangeliastone at gmail.com.

Employers, please direct all questions to our employer liaison, Charles
Bennett, at  <mailto:cbennett at cocenter.org> cbennett at cocenter.org. 

 

 

Preauthorized Contributions (PAC):

Can you help the National Federation of the Blind on a regular basis? Please
consider joining our preauthorized contribution plan. Starting at $5
monthly, you can help us turn dreams into reality and raise expectations.
Visit:  <https://nfb.org/pac> https://nfb.org/pac to fill out the online
form or email  <mailto:pac at nfb.org> pac at nfb.org for additional information.

 

Blind Equality Achievement Month Planning:

The National Federation of the Blind celebrates the organized blind movement
during October each year across the country. Please submit your events,
activities, and celebrations to  <mailto:web at nfb.org> web at nfb.org so they
can be posted on  <https://nfb.org/blind-month> https://nfb.org/blind-month.
If you need items or ideas, check out
<https://nfb.org/civicrm/mailing/view?id=2378&reset=1> the free literature
resources and White Cane Awareness Day Proclamation. Reminder: please only
use Blind Equality Achievement Month, Blind Month, or #BlindMonth when
referring to and promoting activities. 

 

NFB-NEWSLINER Now Available on the SensePlayer:

Subscribers can now download the content of their favorite publications to
the SensePlayer from Selvas BLV. In order to get this new capability, you
will need to update the software on your player and then identify a set of
favorite publications that you want to read. If you need assistance with the
software upgrade, please contact Selvas BLV at 512-837-2000 or email them at
<mailto:support at selvasblv.com> support at selvasblv.com. If you would like to
apply for the NFB-NEWSLINE service or if you need your subscriber codes,
please call us at 866-504-7300.

 

Dream Makers Circle:

You can help build a future of opportunity for the blind by becoming a
member of our Dream Makers Circle. It is easier than you think. You can
visit your bank and convert an account to a POD (payable on death) bank
account, which is payable after your passing to the National Federation of
the Blind or one of our affiliates. Your legacy gift to the National
Federation of the Blind or the National Federation of the Blind of {insert
state} can be made in the form of a will or living trust, an
income-generating gift, or by naming us as the beneficiary of a retirement
plan, IRA, pension, or a life insurance policy. You can designate a specific
amount, a percentage, or list the NFB as one of several beneficiaries. For
additional information, please contact Patti Chang at 410-659-9314,
extension 2422 or at pchang at nfb.org <mailto:pchang at nfb.org> .

 

Reminders:

Vehicle Donations:

The National Federation of the Blind uses car donations to improve the
education of blind children, distribute free white canes, help veterans, and
so much more. We have partnered with Vehicles for Charity to process donated
vehicles. Please call toll-free 855-659-9314, and a representative can make
arrangements, or you can donate online by visiting
<http://www.nfb.org/vehicledonations> www.nfb.org/vehicledonations.

 

Dates to Keep in Mind:

(all times eastern)

*	February 3, 2025: Great Gathering-In 
*	February 3-6, 2025: Washington Seminar
*	July 8-13, 2025: National Convention; New Orleans, Louisiana

 

Introduction to the Organized Blind Movement

*	Wednesday, November 6, 8:00 p.m. 

 

Chapter Presidents Calls

*	Thursday, September 12, and Sunday, September 15, at 8:00 p.m. 

Thursday, December 19, and Sunday, December 22, at 8:00 p.m.

 

 

Ronza Othman, President

National Federation of the Blind of Maryland

443-426-4110

Pronouns: she, her, hers

 

The National Federation of the Blind of Maryland knows that blindness is not
the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the
expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles
between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want;
blindness is not what holds you back

 


From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 04:18:54 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 23:18:54 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Public posting
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrDD8tMOETNWpx3_O6jtRu6Te8eH417AbJSY9oyvnceSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACYGDrDD8tMOETNWpx3_O6jtRu6Te8eH417AbJSY9oyvnceSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrDyoOTPxgyseC5yf3zR0eqLK-7RLck4v0UcHg-cENpQ8g@mail.gmail.com>

Final comment. I am sure Chris Stewart will be thrilled to learn his
private cell number is up on the internet. This is violating.



On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 7:14 PM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello I didn’t realize my messages posted here would be viewable to anyone
> on the internet. Today I ran a search on my name on the internet and found
> this.
>
>
>
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From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 11:33:59 2024
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (Ronza Othman)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 07:33:59 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Public posting
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrDyoOTPxgyseC5yf3zR0eqLK-7RLck4v0UcHg-cENpQ8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACYGDrDyoOTPxgyseC5yf3zR0eqLK-7RLck4v0UcHg-cENpQ8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6D513E6A-C447-4388-9FD4-829736FCD442@gmail.com>

Good morning Christine and all, the nature of a public list serve is that it is, in fact, public, meaning it is both posted to the emails of everyone who subscribes to the list and is also archived so it can be retrieved at some later date should someone want to. I am not aware of any public list serves that operate differently. In addition, when individuals go to the website that lists all of the possible NFB related list serves a person can join, this is explicitly said. To that end, if people do not want private information to be out on the Internet , then they should be mindful not to post such information. I also asked that people get permission from the person before posting any of their contact information including phone numbers, email addresses, etc. 

We regret that some may not have been aware that their postings will both be public and archive. Anyone who has a specific concern as welcome to reach out to me off list so we can talk about those concerns.

Regards,
Ronza Othman, NABL President


Ronza Othman, President
National Federation of the Blind of Maryland
443-426-4110
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2024, at 12:20 AM, Christine B via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Final comment. I am sure Chris Stewart will be thrilled to learn his
> private cell number is up on the internet. This is violating.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 7:14 PM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello I didn’t realize my messages posted here would be viewable to anyone
>> on the internet. Today I ran a search on my name on the internet and found
>> this.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com
> <image_67147521.JPG>


From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 12:15:26 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 07:15:26 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Public posting
In-Reply-To: <085501db0356$43003740$c900a5c0$@gmail.com>
References: <CACYGDrDD8tMOETNWpx3_O6jtRu6Te8eH417AbJSY9oyvnceSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACYGDrDyoOTPxgyseC5yf3zR0eqLK-7RLck4v0UcHg-cENpQ8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <085501db0356$43003740$c900a5c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrBH-7CmCWHUdvscpDjL45YJ1azSgPWAb9JBayQGk9q6=Q@mail.gmail.com>

“I do wish there were some sort of disclaimer for individuals who may wish
to share sensitive information on the list and are unaware that this is
happening.”

That’s right, Chris. This is a wrongful invasion of privacy. Posters here
should be notified in advance that their post might be stated publicly.
This group NEEDS to remove the post I am referring to NOW. I will not
recommend this group nor will I ever post here again. And I will seek out
how I can report this group for violating my privacy and that of others.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 2:51 AM <chrisstewartjd at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, I hope you’re well. I’m fine with this because I’ve made the mistake
> of putting my phone number out there myself, though I do wish there were
> some sort of disclaimer for individuals who may wish to share sensitive
> information on the list and are unaware that this is happening.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Chris K. Stewart
>
> (502) 457.1757
>
> ChrisStewartjd at gmail.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 10, 2024 12:19 AM
> *To:* Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>;
> chrisstewartjd at gmail.com
> *Subject:* Re: Public posting
>
>
>
> Final comment. I am sure Chris Stewart will be thrilled to learn his
> private cell number is up on the internet. This is violating.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 7:14 PM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hello I didn’t realize my messages posted here would be viewable to anyone
> on the internet. Today I ran a search on my name on the internet and found
> this.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 12:33:20 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 07:33:20 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Public posting
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrBH-7CmCWHUdvscpDjL45YJ1azSgPWAb9JBayQGk9q6=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACYGDrDD8tMOETNWpx3_O6jtRu6Te8eH417AbJSY9oyvnceSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACYGDrDyoOTPxgyseC5yf3zR0eqLK-7RLck4v0UcHg-cENpQ8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <085501db0356$43003740$c900a5c0$@gmail.com>
 <CACYGDrBH-7CmCWHUdvscpDjL45YJ1azSgPWAb9JBayQGk9q6=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrCEx-1W0wtkeZZYPAy-RK-desfzWO92mEepqt515xS+iA@mail.gmail.com>

“In addition, when individuals go to the website that lists all of the
possible NFB related list serves a person can join, this is explicitly
said.” Said Ronza.

I wouldn’t be seeing all that print, Ronza, at websites, due to my vision
disability.

So the expectation and implication that someone with a vision disability is
somehow accountable for not “seeing” something on a website with his/her
vision disability is especially offensive.

I thought this was a group to support the blind community. Apparently it’s
a group to “blindside” the blind community.

As a disabled person, I only wish to be involved with groups that support
and uplift the disabled. Groups that engage in advocacy. Not groups that
pull sneak attacks on the visually impaired.

Disturbing on many levels.

Christine Busanelli, Esq., MBA
Attorney at Law




On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 7:15 AM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> “I do wish there were some sort of disclaimer for individuals who may wish
> to share sensitive information on the list and are unaware that this is
> happening.”
>
> That’s right, Chris. This is a wrongful invasion of privacy. Posters here
> should be notified in advance that their post might be stated publicly.
> This group NEEDS to remove the post I am referring to NOW. I will not
> recommend this group nor will I ever post here again. And I will seek out
> how I can report this group for violating my privacy and that of others.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 2:51 AM <chrisstewartjd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, I hope you’re well. I’m fine with this because I’ve made the mistake
>> of putting my phone number out there myself, though I do wish there were
>> some sort of disclaimer for individuals who may wish to share sensitive
>> information on the list and are unaware that this is happening.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris K. Stewart
>>
>> (502) 457.1757
>>
>> ChrisStewartjd at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 10, 2024 12:19 AM
>> *To:* Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>;
>> chrisstewartjd at gmail.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Public posting
>>
>>
>>
>> Final comment. I am sure Chris Stewart will be thrilled to learn his
>> private cell number is up on the internet. This is violating.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 7:14 PM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello I didn’t realize my messages posted here would be viewable to
>> anyone on the internet. Today I ran a search on my name on the internet and
>> found this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 12:56:26 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 07:56:26 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind List Serve WARNING
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrCEx-1W0wtkeZZYPAy-RK-desfzWO92mEepqt515xS+iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACYGDrDD8tMOETNWpx3_O6jtRu6Te8eH417AbJSY9oyvnceSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACYGDrDyoOTPxgyseC5yf3zR0eqLK-7RLck4v0UcHg-cENpQ8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <085501db0356$43003740$c900a5c0$@gmail.com>
 <CACYGDrBH-7CmCWHUdvscpDjL45YJ1azSgPWAb9JBayQGk9q6=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACYGDrCEx-1W0wtkeZZYPAy-RK-desfzWO92mEepqt515xS+iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrAOSqStOPWfMw4ovDHEXZ9--YdGfQbRuUjCBjjkuLozFA@mail.gmail.com>

So take this as a warning, group members.

The blind law group has taken action to violate my privacy rights by
notifying the entire world on the internet, that I have a vision
disability.

This means potential future employers, landlords, etc. will now have
private information regarding my health and disability compliments of the
Blind List Serve.

If you’d like to keep your vision health information private, don’t post
here.

Blind List Serve, you have 24 hours to remove my post from the internet.
After that time, I start other action.

Christine Busanelli, Esq., MBA
Attorney at Law





On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 7:33 AM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> “In addition, when individuals go to the website that lists all of the
> possible NFB related list serves a person can join, this is explicitly
> said.” Said Ronza.
>
> I wouldn’t be seeing all that print, Ronza, at websites, due to my vision
> disability.
>
> So the expectation and implication that someone with a vision disability
> is somehow accountable for not “seeing” something on a website with his/her
> vision disability is especially offensive.
>
> I thought this was a group to support the blind community. Apparently it’s
> a group to “blindside” the blind community.
>
> As a disabled person, I only wish to be involved with groups that support
> and uplift the disabled. Groups that engage in advocacy. Not groups that
> pull sneak attacks on the visually impaired.
>
> Disturbing on many levels.
>
> Christine Busanelli, Esq., MBA
> Attorney at Law
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 7:15 AM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> “I do wish there were some sort of disclaimer for individuals who may
>> wish to share sensitive information on the list and are unaware that this
>> is happening.”
>>
>> That’s right, Chris. This is a wrongful invasion of privacy. Posters here
>> should be notified in advance that their post might be stated publicly.
>> This group NEEDS to remove the post I am referring to NOW. I will not
>> recommend this group nor will I ever post here again. And I will seek out
>> how I can report this group for violating my privacy and that of others.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 2:51 AM <chrisstewartjd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, I hope you’re well. I’m fine with this because I’ve made the mistake
>>> of putting my phone number out there myself, though I do wish there were
>>> some sort of disclaimer for individuals who may wish to share sensitive
>>> information on the list and are unaware that this is happening.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris K. Stewart
>>>
>>> (502) 457.1757
>>>
>>> ChrisStewartjd at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 10, 2024 12:19 AM
>>> *To:* Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>;
>>> chrisstewartjd at gmail.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Public posting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Final comment. I am sure Chris Stewart will be thrilled to learn his
>>> private cell number is up on the internet. This is violating.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 7:14 PM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello I didn’t realize my messages posted here would be viewable to
>>> anyone on the internet. Today I ran a search on my name on the internet and
>>> found this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 13:17:27 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 08:17:27 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d choose
to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all group
members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your obvious
concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and
unprofessional.

Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.





On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Good morning,
>
>
>
>      I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
> One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and childish,
> and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism, critical
> thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our community into
> something more whole rather than be a divisive figure. Ma’am, please learn
> from this and engage in a manner befitting an attorney and a member of the
> blind community even if you choose not to associate with the NFB from this
> point. If your now public comments are found out, perhaps by a
> sensationalist media company, please think of the damage it does to our
> credibility and image is a community and not just a specific blind
> organization. If you’d like to continue the discussion please let me know.
> Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> *Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*
>
> Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,
>
> Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB
>
> *Cell:* 769.768.0335
>
> *Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com
>
>
>

From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au  Tue Sep 10 13:42:07 2024
From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 13:42:07 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear Christine

Disability is always sensitive and to help understand what was posted I thought I would try to find the relevant discussion.  I hit Google with your name and disability and found the below article by the American Bar Association instead:
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/disabilityrights/news/celebrating-disability-pride-at-aba/
Christine Busanelli
Special Advisor to the ABA’s Commission on Disability Rights
“To me, it means not being micro analyzed for what I can and cannot do (related to my disability) and for what technology I use and do not use. It also
means not being compared to someone’s cousin/uncle/mother/brother’s disability issue. It means recognizing that everyone’s disability manifests differently,
and there is no way anyone can understand my life challenges as they are not in my shoes. So when I speak about my challenges, listen with respect and
compassion.”

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Christine B via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2024 11:17 PM
To: maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com; Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>; chrisstewartjd at gmail.com; Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.

Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d choose to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all group members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your obvious concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and unprofessional.

Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.





On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Good morning,
>
>
>
>      I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
> One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and 
> childish, and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism, 
> critical thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our 
> community into something more whole rather than be a divisive figure. 
> Ma’am, please learn from this and engage in a manner befitting an 
> attorney and a member of the blind community even if you choose not to 
> associate with the NFB from this point. If your now public comments 
> are found out, perhaps by a sensationalist media company, please think 
> of the damage it does to our credibility and image is a community and 
> not just a specific blind organization. If you’d like to continue the discussion please let me know.
> Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> *Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*
>
> Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,
>
> Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB
>
> *Cell:* 769.768.0335
>
> *Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com

From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 13:47:31 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 08:47:31 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrB9rKeDpXEbLjPsDSOGzmYzveAupsfd_hhbh9+nSodeSw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Paul. I think it depends on the search engine. The ABA post is
being removed also.




On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:42 AM Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> wrote:

> Dear Christine
>
> Disability is always sensitive and to help understand what was posted I
> thought I would try to find the relevant discussion.  I hit Google with
> your name and disability and found the below article by the American Bar
> Association instead:
>
> https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/disabilityrights/news/celebrating-disability-pride-at-aba/
> Christine Busanelli
> Special Advisor to the ABA’s Commission on Disability Rights
> “To me, it means not being micro analyzed for what I can and cannot do
> (related to my disability) and for what technology I use and do not use. It
> also
> means not being compared to someone’s cousin/uncle/mother/brother’s
> disability issue. It means recognizing that everyone’s disability manifests
> differently,
> and there is no way anyone can understand my life challenges as they are
> not in my shoes. So when I speak about my challenges, listen with respect
> and
> compassion.”
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Christine B via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2024 11:17 PM
> To: maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com; Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>;
> chrisstewartjd at gmail.com; Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
>
> Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d
> choose to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all
> group members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your
> obvious concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and
> unprofessional.
>
> Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Good morning,
> >
> >
> >
> >      I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
> > One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and
> > childish, and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism,
> > critical thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our
> > community into something more whole rather than be a divisive figure.
> > Ma’am, please learn from this and engage in a manner befitting an
> > attorney and a member of the blind community even if you choose not to
> > associate with the NFB from this point. If your now public comments
> > are found out, perhaps by a sensationalist media company, please think
> > of the damage it does to our credibility and image is a community and
> > not just a specific blind organization. If you’d like to continue the
> discussion please let me know.
> > Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.
> >
> >
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > *Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*
> >
> > Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,
> >
> > Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB
> >
> > *Cell:* 769.768.0335
> >
> > *Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com
>

From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:02:43 2024
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:02:43 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <3E535751-2F95-4B26-A77F-84A6DBE9AD6E@hotmail.com>

I am not a lawyer i’m perplexed about this ongoing discussion.
I went to BlindLaw page:

<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
BlindLaw Info Page<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
[X]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>


I copied the following text:
The purpose of the Blind Law listserv is to serve as a resource for blind lawyers, paralegals, and law students, those blind people interested in a career in the legal profession, and others interested in techniques used by blind attorneys in practice. Discussions focus on blindness-related aspects of the practice of law, legal employment, technical resources for the legal profession, law school admissions, and law school admissions tests and bar examinations. The Blind Law listserv is also a means for sharing information about laws and cases that affect the blind and for disseminating information about programs and activities of the National Federation of the Blind. This discussion area is moderated by members of the National Association of Blind Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind, and by the listserv owner.
Under list overview page:
<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
nfbnet.org Mailing Lists<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
[mm-icon.png]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>



There is a disclaimer, which to my understanding and as I said earlier, I'm not a lawyer, infer to any user using the lists you're using a public platform and in doing so, you are in full agreement.



Below is a listing of all the public mailing lists on nfbnet.org. Click on a list name to get more information about the list, or to subscribe, unsubscribe, and change the preferences on your subscription. To visit the general information page for an unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and the list name appended.

List administrators, you can visit the list admin overview page<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/admin> to find the management interface for your list.

If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at nfbnet.org<mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org>.

To my understanding, we as individuals have the information available to us that when we sign up, we are entering into an agreement to utilize a public platform. What changed or what is a new issue?

Thanks



Down the page,

On Sep 10, 2024, at 9:42 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Dear Christine

Disability is always sensitive and to help understand what was posted I thought I would try to find the relevant discussion.  I hit Google with your name and disability and found the below article by the American Bar Association instead:
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/disabilityrights/news/celebrating-disability-pride-at-aba/
Christine Busanelli
Special Advisor to the ABA’s Commission on Disability Rights
“To me, it means not being micro analyzed for what I can and cannot do (related to my disability) and for what technology I use and do not use. It also
means not being compared to someone’s cousin/uncle/mother/brother’s disability issue. It means recognizing that everyone’s disability manifests differently,
and there is no way anyone can understand my life challenges as they are not in my shoes. So when I speak about my challenges, listen with respect and
compassion.”

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Christine B via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2024 11:17 PM
To: maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com; Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>; chrisstewartjd at gmail.com; Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.

Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d choose to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all group members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your obvious concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and unprofessional.

Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.





On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com> wrote:

Good morning,



    I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and
childish, and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism,
critical thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our
community into something more whole rather than be a divisive figure.
Ma’am, please learn from this and engage in a manner befitting an
attorney and a member of the blind community even if you choose not to
associate with the NFB from this point. If your now public comments
are found out, perhaps by a sensationalist media company, please think
of the damage it does to our credibility and image is a community and
not just a specific blind organization. If you’d like to continue the discussion please let me know.
Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.



Respectfully,

*Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*

Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,

Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB

*Cell:* 769.768.0335

*Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com



_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com

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From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:06:11 2024
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:06:11 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91A8A38B-AB58-4910-A178-245A214850B2@hotmail.com>

I do not think your comments were inflammatory. I wrote a longer email to the list serve I'm perplexed. I shared information directly from the NFB net links that also reiterate, this being a public platform. And by anyone of us utilizing it and agreeing to sign up, we are entering into an agreement of this being a public platform.

> On Sep 10, 2024, at 9:17 AM, Christine B via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d choose
> to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all group
> members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your obvious
> concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and
> unprofessional.
> 
> Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> Good morning,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>     I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
>> One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and childish,
>> and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism, critical
>> thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our community into
>> something more whole rather than be a divisive figure. Ma’am, please learn
>> from this and engage in a manner befitting an attorney and a member of the
>> blind community even if you choose not to associate with the NFB from this
>> point. If your now public comments are found out, perhaps by a
>> sensationalist media company, please think of the damage it does to our
>> credibility and image is a community and not just a specific blind
>> organization. If you’d like to continue the discussion please let me know.
>> Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Respectfully,
>> 
>> *Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*
>> 
>> Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,
>> 
>> Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB
>> 
>> *Cell:* 769.768.0335
>> 
>> *Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:10:32 2024
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:10:32 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] I replied to wrong thread comment:
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C29D3DA8-C085-46FD-9C01-E2B6D43BEA31@hotmail.com>

My last comment was for Maxine and I don't think your comment was a problem..


From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:13:04 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 09:13:04 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <3E535751-2F95-4B26-A77F-84A6DBE9AD6E@hotmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <3E535751-2F95-4B26-A77F-84A6DBE9AD6E@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrDTmR_zvApPEEnN7iatb2Be6PMT2yyEhupTqRPqUOkGQw@mail.gmail.com>

You are assuming others have the same vision capacities or assisted devices
as you.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:03 AM wmodnl wmodnl via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> I am not a lawyer i’m perplexed about this ongoing discussion.
> I went to BlindLaw page:
>
> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> BlindLaw Info Page<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
> [X]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>
>
> I copied the following text:
> The purpose of the Blind Law listserv is to serve as a resource for blind
> lawyers, paralegals, and law students, those blind people interested in a
> career in the legal profession, and others interested in techniques used by
> blind attorneys in practice. Discussions focus on blindness-related aspects
> of the practice of law, legal employment, technical resources for the legal
> profession, law school admissions, and law school admissions tests and bar
> examinations. The Blind Law listserv is also a means for sharing
> information about laws and cases that affect the blind and for
> disseminating information about programs and activities of the National
> Federation of the Blind. This discussion area is moderated by members of
> the National Association of Blind Lawyers, a division of the National
> Federation of the Blind, and by the listserv owner.
> Under list overview page:
> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
> nfbnet.org Mailing Lists<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
> nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
> [mm-icon.png]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
>
>
>
> There is a disclaimer, which to my understanding and as I said earlier,
> I'm not a lawyer, infer to any user using the lists you're using a public
> platform and in doing so, you are in full agreement.
>
>
>
> Below is a listing of all the public mailing lists on nfbnet.org. Click
> on a list name to get more information about the list, or to subscribe,
> unsubscribe, and change the preferences on your subscription. To visit the
> general information page for an unadvertised list, open a URL similar to
> this one, but with a '/' and the list name appended.
>
> List administrators, you can visit the list admin overview page<
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/admin> to find the management interface for
> your list.
>
> If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
> mailman at nfbnet.org<mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org>.
>
> To my understanding, we as individuals have the information available to
> us that when we sign up, we are entering into an agreement to utilize a
> public platform. What changed or what is a new issue?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Down the page,
>
> On Sep 10, 2024, at 9:42 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Christine
>
> Disability is always sensitive and to help understand what was posted I
> thought I would try to find the relevant discussion.  I hit Google with
> your name and disability and found the below article by the American Bar
> Association instead:
>
> https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/disabilityrights/news/celebrating-disability-pride-at-aba/
> Christine Busanelli
> Special Advisor to the ABA’s Commission on Disability Rights
> “To me, it means not being micro analyzed for what I can and cannot do
> (related to my disability) and for what technology I use and do not use. It
> also
> means not being compared to someone’s cousin/uncle/mother/brother’s
> disability issue. It means recognizing that everyone’s disability manifests
> differently,
> and there is no way anyone can understand my life challenges as they are
> not in my shoes. So when I speak about my challenges, listen with respect
> and
> compassion.”
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Christine B via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2024 11:17 PM
> To: maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com; Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>;
> chrisstewartjd at gmail.com; Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
>
> Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d
> choose to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all
> group members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your
> obvious concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and
> unprofessional.
>
> Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Good morning,
>
>
>
>     I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
> One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and
> childish, and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism,
> critical thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our
> community into something more whole rather than be a divisive figure.
> Ma’am, please learn from this and engage in a manner befitting an
> attorney and a member of the blind community even if you choose not to
> associate with the NFB from this point. If your now public comments
> are found out, perhaps by a sensationalist media company, please think
> of the damage it does to our credibility and image is a community and
> not just a specific blind organization. If you’d like to continue the
> discussion please let me know.
> Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> *Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*
>
> Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,
>
> Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB
>
> *Cell:* 769.768.0335
>
> *Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>

From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:15:00 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 09:15:00 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] I replied to wrong thread comment:
In-Reply-To: <C29D3DA8-C085-46FD-9C01-E2B6D43BEA31@hotmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C29D3DA8-C085-46FD-9C01-E2B6D43BEA31@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrBvR8=KZ7jVR5aBkhEKmKgBwwLbAboufxo_YeCWKGA0iA@mail.gmail.com>

You would be incorrect. You assume others have the same vision capabilities
or assisted devices as you. By your commentary, you have shown you support
personal attacks on the disabled such as Maxine.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:10 AM wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:

> My last comment was for Maxine and I don't think your comment was a
> problem..
>

From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:19:27 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 09:19:27 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] I replied to wrong thread comment:
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrBvR8=KZ7jVR5aBkhEKmKgBwwLbAboufxo_YeCWKGA0iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C29D3DA8-C085-46FD-9C01-E2B6D43BEA31@hotmail.com>
 <CACYGDrBvR8=KZ7jVR5aBkhEKmKgBwwLbAboufxo_YeCWKGA0iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrA-H1Y38Cr-YQaDUGn16TYOh+_WorzynaBgte_JYqnQbA@mail.gmail.com>

I am officially leaving the group due to harassment of the disabled.
Maintain all future posts on this topic for evidentiary purposes.




On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:15 AM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> You would be incorrect. You assume others have the same vision
> capabilities or assisted devices as you. By your commentary, you have shown
> you support personal attacks on the disabled such as Maxine.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:10 AM wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My last comment was for Maxine and I don't think your comment was a
>> problem..
>>
>

From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:21:05 2024
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:21:05 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrDTmR_zvApPEEnN7iatb2Be6PMT2yyEhupTqRPqUOkGQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <3E535751-2F95-4B26-A77F-84A6DBE9AD6E@hotmail.com>
 <CACYGDrDTmR_zvApPEEnN7iatb2Be6PMT2yyEhupTqRPqUOkGQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA60DF71-ADD8-49C0-9C12-5CA75F07C9DB@hotmail.com>


How am I assuming?
I am totally blind and I am using a screen reader to access the information I posted.

Let's for a moment think of constructive feedback. Are you suggesting maybe, a disclaimer about what you are seeking to change be placed in a different location on the page?
Or maybe their being a popup message that reminds new subscribers this is a public platform with an explanation?
I don't have  anything else to say on this this is a list meant for productive legal discussions, networking etc.


On Sep 10, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com> wrote:

You are assuming others have the same vision capacities or assisted devices as you.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:03 AM wmodnl wmodnl via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
I am not a lawyer i’m perplexed about this ongoing discussion.
I went to BlindLaw page:

<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
BlindLaw Info Page<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
[X]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>


I copied the following text:
The purpose of the Blind Law listserv is to serve as a resource for blind lawyers, paralegals, and law students, those blind people interested in a career in the legal profession, and others interested in techniques used by blind attorneys in practice. Discussions focus on blindness-related aspects of the practice of law, legal employment, technical resources for the legal profession, law school admissions, and law school admissions tests and bar examinations. The Blind Law listserv is also a means for sharing information about laws and cases that affect the blind and for disseminating information about programs and activities of the National Federation of the Blind. This discussion area is moderated by members of the National Association of Blind Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind, and by the listserv owner.
Under list overview page:
<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/> Mailing Lists<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
[mm-icon.png]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>



There is a disclaimer, which to my understanding and as I said earlier, I'm not a lawyer, infer to any user using the lists you're using a public platform and in doing so, you are in full agreement.



Below is a listing of all the public mailing lists on nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/>. Click on a list name to get more information about the list, or to subscribe, unsubscribe, and change the preferences on your subscription. To visit the general information page for an unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and the list name appended.

List administrators, you can visit the list admin overview page<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/admin> to find the management interface for your list.

If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at nfbnet.org<mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org><mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org<mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org>>.

To my understanding, we as individuals have the information available to us that when we sign up, we are entering into an agreement to utilize a public platform. What changed or what is a new issue?

Thanks



Down the page,

On Sep 10, 2024, at 9:42 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Dear Christine

Disability is always sensitive and to help understand what was posted I thought I would try to find the relevant discussion.  I hit Google with your name and disability and found the below article by the American Bar Association instead:
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/disabilityrights/news/celebrating-disability-pride-at-aba/
Christine Busanelli
Special Advisor to the ABA’s Commission on Disability Rights
“To me, it means not being micro analyzed for what I can and cannot do (related to my disability) and for what technology I use and do not use. It also
means not being compared to someone’s cousin/uncle/mother/brother’s disability issue. It means recognizing that everyone’s disability manifests differently,
and there is no way anyone can understand my life challenges as they are not in my shoes. So when I speak about my challenges, listen with respect and
compassion.”

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Christine B via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2024 11:17 PM
To: maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com<mailto:maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com>; Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com<mailto:rothmanjd at gmail.com>>; chrisstewartjd at gmail.com<mailto:chrisstewartjd at gmail.com>; Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com<mailto:christinebusanelli at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.

Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d choose to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all group members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your obvious concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and unprofessional.

Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.





On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com<mailto:maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com>> wrote:

Good morning,



    I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and
childish, and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism,
critical thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our
community into something more whole rather than be a divisive figure.
Ma’am, please learn from this and engage in a manner befitting an
attorney and a member of the blind community even if you choose not to
associate with the NFB from this point. If your now public comments
are found out, perhaps by a sensationalist media company, please think
of the damage it does to our credibility and image is a community and
not just a specific blind organization. If you’d like to continue the discussion please let me know.
Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.



Respectfully,

*Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*

Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,

Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB

*Cell:* 769.768.0335

*Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com<mailto:Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com>



_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:21:37 2024
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:21:37 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] I replied to wrong thread comment:
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrA-H1Y38Cr-YQaDUGn16TYOh+_WorzynaBgte_JYqnQbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C29D3DA8-C085-46FD-9C01-E2B6D43BEA31@hotmail.com>
 <CACYGDrBvR8=KZ7jVR5aBkhEKmKgBwwLbAboufxo_YeCWKGA0iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACYGDrA-H1Y38Cr-YQaDUGn16TYOh+_WorzynaBgte_JYqnQbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD8887E6-EE01-4675-BD82-3CAEB81593C2@hotmail.com>


Bye, there's the virtual door.

On Sep 10, 2024, at 10:19 AM, Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com> wrote:

I am officially leaving the group due to harassment of the disabled. Maintain all future posts on this topic for evidentiary purposes.




On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:15 AM Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com<mailto:christinebusanelli at gmail.com>> wrote:
You would be incorrect. You assume others have the same vision capabilities or assisted devices as you. By your commentary, you have shown you support personal attacks on the disabled such as Maxine.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:10 AM wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com<mailto:wmodnl at hotmail.com>> wrote:
My last comment was for Maxine and I don't think your comment was a problem..


From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:26:59 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 09:26:59 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <CA60DF71-ADD8-49C0-9C12-5CA75F07C9DB@hotmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <3E535751-2F95-4B26-A77F-84A6DBE9AD6E@hotmail.com>
 <CACYGDrDTmR_zvApPEEnN7iatb2Be6PMT2yyEhupTqRPqUOkGQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA60DF71-ADD8-49C0-9C12-5CA75F07C9DB@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrAHmY3rUNufCAU0Oj7fF1euYNH_TsOZRDNa0w88fjfvjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes productive legal discussions. Not abusive discussions. Even the
disabled can discriminate against and harass the disabled. Your disability
is not the same as mine. And for you to suggest that because you have
access, I have access is improper. You may use the virtual door to
enlightenment on this topic. I am saving all your messages of harassment
for further action.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:21 AM wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> How am I assuming?
> I am totally blind and I am using a screen reader to access the
> information I posted.
>
> Let's for a moment think of constructive feedback. Are you suggesting
> maybe, a disclaimer about what you are seeking to change be placed in a
> different location on the page?
> Or maybe their being a popup message that reminds new subscribers this is
> a public platform with an explanation?
> I don't have  anything else to say on this this is a list meant for
> productive legal discussions, networking etc.
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> You are assuming others have the same vision capacities or assisted
> devices as you.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:03 AM wmodnl wmodnl via BlindLaw <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I am not a lawyer i’m perplexed about this ongoing discussion.
>> I went to BlindLaw page:
>>
>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>> BlindLaw Info Page<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> >
>> nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>> [X]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>>
>>
>> I copied the following text:
>> The purpose of the Blind Law listserv is to serve as a resource for blind
>> lawyers, paralegals, and law students, those blind people interested in a
>> career in the legal profession, and others interested in techniques used by
>> blind attorneys in practice. Discussions focus on blindness-related aspects
>> of the practice of law, legal employment, technical resources for the legal
>> profession, law school admissions, and law school admissions tests and bar
>> examinations. The Blind Law listserv is also a means for sharing
>> information about laws and cases that affect the blind and for
>> disseminating information about programs and activities of the National
>> Federation of the Blind. This discussion area is moderated by members of
>> the National Association of Blind Lawyers, a division of the National
>> Federation of the Blind, and by the listserv owner.
>> Under list overview page:
>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
>> nfbnet.org Mailing Lists<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
>> nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
>> [mm-icon.png]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
>>
>>
>>
>> There is a disclaimer, which to my understanding and as I said earlier,
>> I'm not a lawyer, infer to any user using the lists you're using a public
>> platform and in doing so, you are in full agreement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Below is a listing of all the public mailing lists on nfbnet.org. Click
>> on a list name to get more information about the list, or to subscribe,
>> unsubscribe, and change the preferences on your subscription. To visit the
>> general information page for an unadvertised list, open a URL similar to
>> this one, but with a '/' and the list name appended.
>>
>> List administrators, you can visit the list admin overview page<
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/admin> to find the management interface for
>> your list.
>>
>> If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
>> mailman at nfbnet.org<mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org>.
>>
>> To my understanding, we as individuals have the information available to
>> us that when we sign up, we are entering into an agreement to utilize a
>> public platform. What changed or what is a new issue?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Down the page,
>>
>> On Sep 10, 2024, at 9:42 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Christine
>>
>> Disability is always sensitive and to help understand what was posted I
>> thought I would try to find the relevant discussion.  I hit Google with
>> your name and disability and found the below article by the American Bar
>> Association instead:
>>
>> https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/disabilityrights/news/celebrating-disability-pride-at-aba/
>> Christine Busanelli
>> Special Advisor to the ABA’s Commission on Disability Rights
>> “To me, it means not being micro analyzed for what I can and cannot do
>> (related to my disability) and for what technology I use and do not use. It
>> also
>> means not being compared to someone’s cousin/uncle/mother/brother’s
>> disability issue. It means recognizing that everyone’s disability manifests
>> differently,
>> and there is no way anyone can understand my life challenges as they are
>> not in my shoes. So when I speak about my challenges, listen with respect
>> and
>> compassion.”
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Christine B
>> via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2024 11:17 PM
>> To: maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com; Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>;
>> chrisstewartjd at gmail.com; Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
>>
>> Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d
>> choose to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all
>> group members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your
>> obvious concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and
>> unprofessional.
>>
>> Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good morning,
>>
>>
>>
>>     I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
>> One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and
>> childish, and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism,
>> critical thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our
>> community into something more whole rather than be a divisive figure.
>> Ma’am, please learn from this and engage in a manner befitting an
>> attorney and a member of the blind community even if you choose not to
>> associate with the NFB from this point. If your now public comments
>> are found out, perhaps by a sensationalist media company, please think
>> of the damage it does to our credibility and image is a community and
>> not just a specific blind organization. If you’d like to continue the
>> discussion please let me know.
>> Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> *Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*
>>
>> Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,
>>
>> Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB
>>
>> *Cell:* 769.768.0335
>>
>> *Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindLaw mailing list
>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindLaw:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>>
>
>

From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:30:05 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 09:30:05 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Fwd: Offensive
In-Reply-To: <E0EEF937-E030-443E-80A7-A69293D52216@hotmail.com>
References: <CACYGDrDcGxOsRQz3MZUzsiN5wuaJ+RkbSuUkT1scrx6E2hsc3w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E0EEF937-E030-443E-80A7-A69293D52216@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrCVbBphoAzp8V0X3PmXg=JRC8aWOwzSRrSRiuwMXXEXQQ@mail.gmail.com>

More harassment below for the record.



---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: Offensive
To: Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>



aiet tell yourself em lies,  you bugg’n facts

On Sep 10, 2024, at 10:17 AM, Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
wrote:

You would be incorrect. You assume others have the same vision capabilities
or assisted devices as you. By your commentary, you have shown you support
personal attacks on the disabled such as Maxine. Thanks for sharing that.

From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:30:27 2024
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:30:27 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <CACYGDrAHmY3rUNufCAU0Oj7fF1euYNH_TsOZRDNa0w88fjfvjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <3E535751-2F95-4B26-A77F-84A6DBE9AD6E@hotmail.com>
 <CACYGDrDTmR_zvApPEEnN7iatb2Be6PMT2yyEhupTqRPqUOkGQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA60DF71-ADD8-49C0-9C12-5CA75F07C9DB@hotmail.com>
 <CACYGDrAHmY3rUNufCAU0Oj7fF1euYNH_TsOZRDNa0w88fjfvjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BDE1E9AD-0A1E-4B9D-B519-0FD768D715BD@hotmail.com>


Nobody, including myself are harassing you.
On Sep 10, 2024, at 10:26 AM, Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com> wrote:

Yes productive legal discussions. Not abusive discussions. Even the disabled can discriminate against and harass the disabled. Your disability is not the same as mine. And for you to suggest that because you have access, I have access is improper. You may use the virtual door to enlightenment on this topic. I am saving all your messages of harassment for further action.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:21 AM wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com<mailto:wmodnl at hotmail.com>> wrote:

How am I assuming?
I am totally blind and I am using a screen reader to access the information I posted.

Let's for a moment think of constructive feedback. Are you suggesting maybe, a disclaimer about what you are seeking to change be placed in a different location on the page?
Or maybe their being a popup message that reminds new subscribers this is a public platform with an explanation?
I don't have  anything else to say on this this is a list meant for productive legal discussions, networking etc.


On Sep 10, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com<mailto:christinebusanelli at gmail.com>> wrote:

You are assuming others have the same vision capacities or assisted devices as you.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:03 AM wmodnl wmodnl via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
I am not a lawyer i’m perplexed about this ongoing discussion.
I went to BlindLaw page:

<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
BlindLaw Info Page<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
[X]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>


I copied the following text:
The purpose of the Blind Law listserv is to serve as a resource for blind lawyers, paralegals, and law students, those blind people interested in a career in the legal profession, and others interested in techniques used by blind attorneys in practice. Discussions focus on blindness-related aspects of the practice of law, legal employment, technical resources for the legal profession, law school admissions, and law school admissions tests and bar examinations. The Blind Law listserv is also a means for sharing information about laws and cases that affect the blind and for disseminating information about programs and activities of the National Federation of the Blind. This discussion area is moderated by members of the National Association of Blind Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind, and by the listserv owner.
Under list overview page:
<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/> Mailing Lists<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/><http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
[mm-icon.png]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>



There is a disclaimer, which to my understanding and as I said earlier, I'm not a lawyer, infer to any user using the lists you're using a public platform and in doing so, you are in full agreement.



Below is a listing of all the public mailing lists on nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/>. Click on a list name to get more information about the list, or to subscribe, unsubscribe, and change the preferences on your subscription. To visit the general information page for an unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and the list name appended.

List administrators, you can visit the list admin overview page<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/admin> to find the management interface for your list.

If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at nfbnet.org<mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org><mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org<mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org>>.

To my understanding, we as individuals have the information available to us that when we sign up, we are entering into an agreement to utilize a public platform. What changed or what is a new issue?

Thanks



Down the page,

On Sep 10, 2024, at 9:42 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Dear Christine

Disability is always sensitive and to help understand what was posted I thought I would try to find the relevant discussion.  I hit Google with your name and disability and found the below article by the American Bar Association instead:
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/disabilityrights/news/celebrating-disability-pride-at-aba/
Christine Busanelli
Special Advisor to the ABA’s Commission on Disability Rights
“To me, it means not being micro analyzed for what I can and cannot do (related to my disability) and for what technology I use and do not use. It also
means not being compared to someone’s cousin/uncle/mother/brother’s disability issue. It means recognizing that everyone’s disability manifests differently,
and there is no way anyone can understand my life challenges as they are not in my shoes. So when I speak about my challenges, listen with respect and
compassion.”

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Christine B via BlindLaw
Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2024 11:17 PM
To: maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com<mailto:maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com>; Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com<mailto:rothmanjd at gmail.com>>; chrisstewartjd at gmail.com<mailto:chrisstewartjd at gmail.com>; Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
Cc: Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com<mailto:christinebusanelli at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.

Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d choose to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all group members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your obvious concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and unprofessional.

Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.





On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com<mailto:maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com>> wrote:

Good morning,



    I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and
childish, and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism,
critical thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our
community into something more whole rather than be a divisive figure.
Ma’am, please learn from this and engage in a manner befitting an
attorney and a member of the blind community even if you choose not to
associate with the NFB from this point. If your now public comments
are found out, perhaps by a sensationalist media company, please think
of the damage it does to our credibility and image is a community and
not just a specific blind organization. If you’d like to continue the discussion please let me know.
Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.



Respectfully,

*Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*

Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,

Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB

*Cell:* 769.768.0335

*Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com<mailto:Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com>



_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com



From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 14:31:20 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 09:31:20 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
In-Reply-To: <BDE1E9AD-0A1E-4B9D-B519-0FD768D715BD@hotmail.com>
References: <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$.ref@yahoo.com>
 <002801db0382$f67a17b0$e36e4710$@yahoo.com>
 <CACYGDrA+YN0R6+NOT9HdKYQBUBtLwnF40V8nnXT=aBH-56FiNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SYYP282MB1152981DED3B275E862D848A989A2@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <3E535751-2F95-4B26-A77F-84A6DBE9AD6E@hotmail.com>
 <CACYGDrDTmR_zvApPEEnN7iatb2Be6PMT2yyEhupTqRPqUOkGQw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA60DF71-ADD8-49C0-9C12-5CA75F07C9DB@hotmail.com>
 <CACYGDrAHmY3rUNufCAU0Oj7fF1euYNH_TsOZRDNa0w88fjfvjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BDE1E9AD-0A1E-4B9D-B519-0FD768D715BD@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrB1ZfYp_GdiWBLGae2xWdaMPY-2hzGvH3otBM5FsyPb6w@mail.gmail.com>

Ongoing harassment for the record.



On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:30 AM wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Nobody, including myself are harassing you.
>
> On Sep 10, 2024, at 10:26 AM, Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yes productive legal discussions. Not abusive discussions. Even the
> disabled can discriminate against and harass the disabled. Your disability
> is not the same as mine. And for you to suggest that because you have
> access, I have access is improper. You may use the virtual door to
> enlightenment on this topic. I am saving all your messages of harassment
> for further action.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:21 AM wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> How am I assuming?
>> I am totally blind and I am using a screen reader to access the
>> information I posted.
>>
>> Let's for a moment think of constructive feedback. Are you suggesting
>> maybe, a disclaimer about what you are seeking to change be placed in a
>> different location on the page?
>> Or maybe their being a popup message that reminds new subscribers this is
>> a public platform with an explanation?
>> I don't have  anything else to say on this this is a list meant for
>> productive legal discussions, networking etc.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 10, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> You are assuming others have the same vision capacities or assisted
>> devices as you.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 9:03 AM wmodnl wmodnl via BlindLaw <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not a lawyer i’m perplexed about this ongoing discussion.
>>> I went to BlindLaw page:
>>>
>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>>> BlindLaw Info Page<
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>>> nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>>> [X]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> I copied the following text:
>>> The purpose of the Blind Law listserv is to serve as a resource for
>>> blind lawyers, paralegals, and law students, those blind people interested
>>> in a career in the legal profession, and others interested in techniques
>>> used by blind attorneys in practice. Discussions focus on blindness-related
>>> aspects of the practice of law, legal employment, technical resources for
>>> the legal profession, law school admissions, and law school admissions
>>> tests and bar examinations. The Blind Law listserv is also a means for
>>> sharing information about laws and cases that affect the blind and for
>>> disseminating information about programs and activities of the National
>>> Federation of the Blind. This discussion area is moderated by members of
>>> the National Association of Blind Lawyers, a division of the National
>>> Federation of the Blind, and by the listserv owner.
>>> Under list overview page:
>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
>>> nfbnet.org Mailing Lists<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
>>> nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
>>> [mm-icon.png]<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a disclaimer, which to my understanding and as I said earlier,
>>> I'm not a lawyer, infer to any user using the lists you're using a public
>>> platform and in doing so, you are in full agreement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Below is a listing of all the public mailing lists on nfbnet.org. Click
>>> on a list name to get more information about the list, or to subscribe,
>>> unsubscribe, and change the preferences on your subscription. To visit the
>>> general information page for an unadvertised list, open a URL similar to
>>> this one, but with a '/' and the list name appended.
>>>
>>> List administrators, you can visit the list admin overview page<
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/admin> to find the management interface for
>>> your list.
>>>
>>> If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
>>> mailman at nfbnet.org<mailto:mailman at nfbnet.org>.
>>>
>>> To my understanding, we as individuals have the information available to
>>> us that when we sign up, we are entering into an agreement to utilize a
>>> public platform. What changed or what is a new issue?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Down the page,
>>>
>>> On Sep 10, 2024, at 9:42 AM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Christine
>>>
>>> Disability is always sensitive and to help understand what was posted I
>>> thought I would try to find the relevant discussion.  I hit Google with
>>> your name and disability and found the below article by the American Bar
>>> Association instead:
>>>
>>> https://www.americanbar.org/groups/diversity/disabilityrights/news/celebrating-disability-pride-at-aba/
>>> Christine Busanelli
>>> Special Advisor to the ABA’s Commission on Disability Rights
>>> “To me, it means not being micro analyzed for what I can and cannot do
>>> (related to my disability) and for what technology I use and do not use. It
>>> also
>>> means not being compared to someone’s cousin/uncle/mother/brother’s
>>> disability issue. It means recognizing that everyone’s disability manifests
>>> differently,
>>> and there is no way anyone can understand my life challenges as they are
>>> not in my shoes. So when I speak about my challenges, listen with respect
>>> and
>>> compassion.”
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Christine B
>>> via BlindLaw
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2024 11:17 PM
>>> To: maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com; Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>;
>>> chrisstewartjd at gmail.com; Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Christine B <christinebusanelli at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Blind Law Comments.
>>>
>>> Your comments are libelous, Maxine, and a perfect example of why I’d
>>> choose to leave this group. I am sharing your spewing hatred now for all
>>> group members to view. My disability is not an excuse, it’s a fact. Your
>>> obvious concern is for the group name and not its members, how selfish and
>>> unprofessional.
>>>
>>> Did you think I wouldn’t expose your derogatory tirade? Think again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 8:11 AM <maxine.gretchokoff at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     I’ve been keeping up with your comments on our public list serve.
>>> One’s disability is not an excuse, your comments are public and
>>> childish, and I highly recommend you look into constructive criticism,
>>> critical thinking, expectations of privacy, and seek to shift our
>>> community into something more whole rather than be a divisive figure.
>>> Ma’am, please learn from this and engage in a manner befitting an
>>> attorney and a member of the blind community even if you choose not to
>>> associate with the NFB from this point. If your now public comments
>>> are found out, perhaps by a sensationalist media company, please think
>>> of the damage it does to our credibility and image is a community and
>>> not just a specific blind organization. If you’d like to continue the
>>> discussion please let me know.
>>> Otherwise, thank you for your time and I hope you have a good day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>>
>>> *Maxine J. Gretchokoff (They/Them)*
>>>
>>> Civil Air Patrol Auxiliary Airman,
>>>
>>> Magnolia At-Large Chapter Member, MS NFB
>>>
>>> *Cell:* 769.768.0335
>>>
>>> *Email:* Maxine.Gretchokoff at yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindLaw mailing list
>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindLaw:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>

From rothmanjd at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 16:27:32 2024
From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (Ronza Othman)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 12:27:32 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Ending the conversation and returning to business
Message-ID: <BB9031F9-3BC0-4666-B96F-49C8ADCDA3C2@gmail.com>

Folks, I’m asking you all, as the list moderator, to end the email thread concerning the public nature of this listserv and any of the offshoots of that conversation. Anybody who does not follow these instructions will jeopardize their ability to remain on this list. Sometimes topics get very contentious, or sometimes we get passionate about them, but when they get to a point of potentially being disruptive, we need to end that particular conversation thread. In addition, please remember that you must request permission before sharing somebody’s private correspondence or information to this listserve, even if that private correspondence was sent to you.  The focus of this list is to provide a forum to discuss the legal profession for blind and low vision attorneys , students, and prospective law students, as well as to discuss legal cases and policies that impact us in our profession and finally, to share in the work of the national Federation of the blind. Let’s get back to our stated business. 

Ronza Othman, President
National Federation of the Blind of Maryland
443-426-4110
Sent from my iPhone

From christinebusanelli at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 16:32:04 2024
From: christinebusanelli at gmail.com (Christine B)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 11:32:04 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Ending the conversation and returning to business
In-Reply-To: <BB9031F9-3BC0-4666-B96F-49C8ADCDA3C2@gmail.com>
References: <BB9031F9-3BC0-4666-B96F-49C8ADCDA3C2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYGDrDyTVXOASYB_PEheucAu0pgkSmAX69JOs8zud3JrsF+2g@mail.gmail.com>

Ending the thread does not mean discarding the evidence. Again, please
retain all threads on this topic for further action.

On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 11:29 AM Ronza Othman via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Folks, I’m asking you all, as the list moderator, to end the email thread
> concerning the public nature of this listserv and any of the offshoots of
> that conversation. Anybody who does not follow these instructions will
> jeopardize their ability to remain on this list. Sometimes topics get very
> contentious, or sometimes we get passionate about them, but when they get
> to a point of potentially being disruptive, we need to end that particular
> conversation thread. In addition, please remember that you must request
> permission before sharing somebody’s private correspondence or information
> to this listserve, even if that private correspondence was sent to you.
> The focus of this list is to provide a forum to discuss the legal
> profession for blind and low vision attorneys , students, and prospective
> law students, as well as to discuss legal cases and policies that impact us
> in our profession and finally, to share in the work of the national
> Federation of the blind. Let’s get back to our stated business.
>
> Ronza Othman, President
> National Federation of the Blind of Maryland
> 443-426-4110
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindLaw:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/christinebusanelli%40gmail.com
>

From glnorman15 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 13 21:52:12 2024
From: glnorman15 at hotmail.com (GL Norman)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2024 21:52:12 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] See Posting at SLS Share
In-Reply-To: <c5887472d32d2e4a57930d90d.1bdc83c25d.20240913143410.f226748b1c.7559a958@mail177.suw14.mcdlv.net>
References: <c5887472d32d2e4a57930d90d.1bdc83c25d.20240913143410.f226748b1c.7559a958@mail177.suw14.mcdlv.net>
Message-ID: <CO1PR05MB834862EB25CEFC9347F74416D1652@CO1PR05MB8348.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

See. Resumes should be submitted immediately.

From: Bar Association of Baltimore City <kfast at baltimorebar.org>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2024 10:34 AM
To: Gary Norman <glnorman15 at hotmail.com>
Subject: BABC Weekly - City Bar Report September Edition


View this email in your browser<https://mailchi.mp/691ac4a5e8ec/babc-weekly-city-bar-report-edition-119188?e=1bdc83c25d>
[Image removed by sender.]
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JOB POSTING: Senior Legal Services (SLS) Seeks a Full-Time Director

Senior Legal Services (SLS) seeks a full-time Director. Candidate must be an attorney.

Senior Legal Services ("SLS") is a joint program of The Bar Association of Baltimore City and the Baltimore Bar Foundation. SLS provides vital pro bono legal services to low-income seniors, aged 60 and over, in Baltimore City. We advise and represent clients on a broad range of civil legal matters, including estate planning, consumer and debt collection issues, landlord/tenant disputes, housing matters, foreclosure prevention, probate, and guardianship. The mission of SLS is to provide quality legal services to an underserved population at risk of losing resources to empower them to age in place and thrive in their community.

Job Duties Include:
* Supervise ~5 staff in a practice focused on poverty concerns of low-income Baltimore City residents aged 60 and older with an emphasis on advance planning, housing retention, and elder justice.
* Manage all aspects of non-profit civil legal services practice with an eye toward providing equal access to justice in light of historical disparity of opportunity.
* Manage grants administration for annual budget of ~$500,000 to ensure compliance with conditions of a variety of federal, state, and foundation grants.
* Engage with local bench, bar, and partner organizations to foster positive image and working relationships.

Desired Qualifications:
* Familiarity with legal basics in the following areas: Baltimore City landlord/tenant, estate planning, peace/protective orders, civil procedure especially as to the Baltimore City District Court.
* 3 years litigation experience
* Excellent research and writing skills.
* Experience with grant writing/compliance
* Ability to effectively communicate complex legal issues to unsophisticated parties.
* Experience working with indigent populations.
* Demonstrated commitment to pro bono or public interest work.
* Ability to travel to various locations around Baltimore City.
* All candidates must be barred in Maryland.

Compensation & Benefits
The following benefits package is provided:
* One (1) week vacation after the first six months of employment, Two (2) weeks after the first year of employment,
* Ten (10) personal days/year,
* Twelve (12) holidays per year,
* Health insurance, dental insurance, life insurance, long and short-term disability insurance, after three-month probationary period,
* SIMPLE IRA plan with 3% employer match, after one year of employment,
* Working travel mileage reimbursement and paid parking.

Application Instructions:
Email a resume cover letter, and writing sample to: kfast at baltimorebar.org<mailto:kfast at baltimorebar.org?subject=SLS%20Director%20Application&body=>, with the subject line: "SLS Director Application" for consideration. Applications will be reviewed as they are received, so candidates are encouraged to apply as soon as possible.

SLS is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate against applicants or employees based on race, nationality, ethnicity, age, religion, disability status, sex assigned at birth, gender identity, gender presentation, sexual orientation, or immigration status.
[Image removed by sender. Facebook icon]<https://baltimorebar.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c5887472d32d2e4a57930d90d&id=9b4cc79967&e=1bdc83c25d>

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From sai at fiatfiendum.org  Tue Sep 17 13:46:14 2024
From: sai at fiatfiendum.org (Sai)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2024 14:46:14 +0100
Subject: [blindLaw] Requesting interested parties & pro bono counsel for
 first ever formal proceeding on US domestic & international blind mail
Message-ID: <CAHs-R5ydhTm=svK5O2n8VbR9VSActOFX-9D_JCXpo2wBjrT3qQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear WBU, WBU-AP, ABU, AFUB/UAFA, EBU, LAUB/ULAC, ACB, AERBVI, AFB, APH,
CBM-GDI, CCB, CNIB, ICEVI, IFLA LPD, NBP, NFB, NLS, Perkins, RNIB,
SightSavers, BlindLaw, and everyone reading this as a forwarded email:

*# Introduction*

My name is Sai. I'm a functionally blind US citizen living in London, UK.
I'm an ACB & NFB member, and NLS & RNIB patron.

In June, I filed a formal complaint with the Postal Regulatory Commission,
the oversight agency which regulates the US Postal Service, about numerous
USPS violations of law, and official discrimination, in its formal rules
and de facto policy & practice relating to US domestic and international
free mail of items for the blind.

On September 12, I partially won the initial complaint stage, i.e. USPS'
motion to dismiss was partially denied. That is *extremely* rare; almost
every complaint ever filed, including ones by major corporations, unions,
coalitions of US state governments, etc., has been entirely dismissed at
this stage.

It is now going to a formal proceeding. The formal proceeding stage can be
nearly the equivalent of full civil litigation (including discovery,
intra-PRC interlocutory appeals, etc), but conducted entirely within the
PRC. See rules and my folder of resources linked below.

This is, to my knowledge, the *first ever formal legal proceeding about
blind mail*. It is certainly the first in the PRC — and I believe it's the
first in the US at all. (I have not heard of any comparable case worldwide,
though that may reflect only my ignorance rather than a true absence.) It
will at least set precedent that affects blind people across the entire US,
and the entire world.

It may be followed by a separate notice & comment proceeding for
rulemaking, i.e. to change regulations, and/or a proceeding to change mail
classification, e.g. to make US domestic blind mail be first class and/or
priority mail rather than no class of mail at all as it is now. That's hard
to predict, and will depend on how things go in this proceeding.

I've done this alone so far, and I can't do the rest on my own. I ask for
your independent participation and your help as a coalition.


*## Inclusion of other allied people and organisations*

Please forward this email to any organisation, US or international, which
is affected by USPS domestic or international blind mail, failure to
provide services like insurance or tracking, refusal of service, speed of
service, etc., which may be interested.

Please do include not just organisations of & for the blind, such as the
ones copied to this email, but also all companies involved
in manufacturing, selling, or shipping blind products to or from the US. I
am not sure what are good contacts for their legal or
organisational departments, which is why they are not copied to this
directly.


*## Legal issues & possible effects*

My complaint is rather broad. It covered, for example:

   - unavailability of tracking, insurance, registered mail, certified
   mail, return receipt, and other services on domestic and/or international
   blind mail;
   - refusal to provide the same services and standards as are provided for
   all other mail of the same class, such as limitations of parcel post to 15
   lb instead of 70 lb;
   - extremely slow treatment of US domestic blind mail;
   - charging for things the Universal Postal Convention makes illegal to
   charge, such as registered mail (which isn't available domestically),
   shipping fees over a given weight limit, etc;
   - limitation on "profit-making" blind mail, i.e. on any for-profit
   company that produces blind products using blind mail, even if the customer
   is blind;
   - reading the contents of blind mail;
   - failure to classify domestic blind mail, which is currently "no
   particular class of mail";
   - etc.

This case involves many legal issues of first impression — essentially *all
*of it has never been heard before. The exact scope of the formal part is
not yet clear. My discrimination complaint under 39 USC 403(c) survived the
motion to dismiss. Nearly everything can potentially be construed under
that statute. The early formal proceedings will shape what is actually
formally covered, by interpreting or possibly overturning the order
initiating proceedings.

However, essentially everything about US policies and practices on domestic
or international blind mail is potentially on the table — either formally
or by negotiations.

I expect that changes in US policy & practice about blind mail will not
only affect blind people worldwide because of the effects on products
shipped to or from the US — which dramatically affects the price and
availability of braille books, braillers, canes, braille displays, and
other blind items worldwide — but also by creating influential precedent
that other countries may follow, or may result in changes to the Universal
Postal Convention.



*# Request for your participation*

I request both your direct formal participation in your own right as
independent organisations with an interest in this case, and your informal
or behind-the-scenes support and collaboration.


*## Call for amici and intervenors to participate in your own right*

Anyone who is interested can participate — anywhere from just filing a
one-off public comment, to being a sort of amicus, to being a full
intervenor who participates in discovery, off the record negotiations, etc.

I request that you please do so if you are interested. I particularly
request the participation of any organisations of or for the blind, and any
companies, which have are in any way interested in or affected by shipping
blind products within, to, or from the US.

*To participate, please contact the docket clerk and public representative,
with CC to me and USPS counsel*. Their emails are below. See also the rules
linked below about participation.

There are *no *deadlines set* yet* for filing to participate, but they will
probably be set within a couple weeks, and may be as short as a week; I
don't know. So, please file ASAP if you can. You can always withdraw, or
consolidate with another group, later on.

You do *not* need to be an organisation, you do *not* need to be or have a
lawyer, and you do *not* need to be in the US. You also do *not* need
permission from me or USPS.

You just need to have an "interest" in the case, and to file under either
of these two rules, preferably after getting an ArkCase e-filing account
(though contact the docket clerk to ask her to accept filings by email if
ArkCase is unusable for you):

   1. Comments only
      1. 39 CFR 3010.140 "Except for proceedings involving an appeal of a
      Postal Service determination to close or consolidate a post office, any
      person may submit comments in proceedings before the Commission. An
      opportunity to provide a reply to comments shall be at the discretion of
      the Commission, or the presiding officer if one is appointed.
The scope and
      timing of comments and reply comments may be specified by
notice, order, or
      presiding officer's ruling. There is no requirement to intervene in a
      proceeding as a party in order to submit comments."
   2. Intervention, either full or partial
      1. 39 CFR 3010.142(b) "Notices of intervention. A notice of
      intervention shall clearly and concisely set forth the nature
and extent of
      the intervenor's interest in the issues to be decided, including
the postal
      services utilized by the intervenor giving rise to the intervenor's
      interest in the proceeding, and to the extent known, the position of the
      intervenor with regard to the proposed changes in postal rates, fees,
      classifications, or services, or the subject matter of the complaint, as
      described in the notice of the proceeding. Such notice shall
state whether
      or not the intervenor requests a hearing or in lieu thereof, a
conference,
      and whether or not the intervenor intends to actively participate in a
      hearing. Such notice shall also include on page one thereof the name and
      full mailing address of no more than two persons who are to receive
      service, when necessary, of any documents relating to such proceeding."

Be aware that parties on our side might get consolidated at the discretion
of the Presiding Officer, under 39 CFR 3010.142(e) and 3010.104. If that
happens, whoever gets consolidated would have to act as a group — filing,
negotiating, etc as one. If you think you're bringing something distinctive
to this case and don't want to be grouped with others, or if you want to be
grouped with a subset of the people on our side, please make sure to
explain your interest and unique views or possible contributions in more
depth in your notice of intervention.


*## Request for pro bono counsel and other assistance for me, and for
organising our coalition*

I have so far been doing this entirely on my own. Though I have substantial
legal experience, I'm not a lawyer. And I have no funding or support.

*1. Legal representation*

I would greatly appreciate pro bono legal representation, for myself & my
501(c)(3), both in the PRC proceeding, and for an appeal to DC Circuit
under 39 USC 3663 from parts of the Sept 12 order that ruled against me.
(And, depending on how things go, for an appeal to DC Circuit after the
proceeding.)

There is a 30 day deadline to file a 39 USC 3663 appeal after final order,
and I want to ensure that nothing is dropped by failure to appeal. I am not
sure whether the Sept. 12 order is a "final" order or not for this purpose.

I also have ongoing negotiation with USPS counsel. They have to file a
written answer by Monday, including a statement of conferral. I would like
help with that negotiation also, whether directly or by helping me
strategize.

*2. Personal and coalition assistance*

I would also appreciate help with PR, explaining this case in a way that
the public (and potential amici) can better understand, coordinating our
allies, mounting a public pressure campaign to influence the proceedings in
our favour, etc. And, candidly, I would appreciate emotional support.

Concision and PR are not my strong suit. I have multiple serious
disabilities on top of functional blindness (which mostly only impairs me
when I'm outside my home), and a lot of other things going on, which make
this difficult for me. I'm going to be *very* quickly overwhelmed, and I
need help. I can't do this alone.

I would be *glad *to pass off the role of lead negotiator and coordinator
for our coalition to people who have more energy and skill for this than I.
If that may be you, or you have a suggestion for who it should be, please
tell me.

*If you could potentially help with any of the above, please contact me
ASAP. *


*# Key info*

   - *This case: *
   - PRC docket ID:
         - C2024-13
      - official docket:
         -
         https://prc.arkcase.com/portal/docket-search/advanced/docket-details/6399
         - ArkCase is rather a pain to use, so you may find it easier to
         use my Google Drive folder below.
         - unofficial docket:
         -
         https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Cr2wF86uMuMjthBYqSZ6UnGzO8p2UlCx
         - This is my folder of all filings in this case, including DOCX
         versions of USPS' filings (which they refused to file
publicly, but gave me
         directly).
         - Federal Register
         -
         https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/search?conditions%5Bagencies%5D%5B%5D=postal-regulatory-commission&conditions%5Bpublication_date%5D%5Bgte%5D=09%2F01%2F2024

         - This proceeding was ordered to be published in the Federal
         Register, but that hasn't happened yet. I don't know when it
will. When it
         does, it'll show up at the link above (and in my Google Drive
folder for
         the case).

For your convenience, I have attached, in DOCX form, the key parts of my
consolidated complaint and the PRC order. All the other documents, and PDF
versions, are in my Google Drive folder linked above, and all filings are
on the official docket linked above.



   - *Law*
      - US Code
         - for this proceeding
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/39/3662
         - for appeals
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/39/3663
         - PRC regulations for procedure
         - generally
            -
            https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/chapter-III/subchapter-C

         - for participating
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/part-3010/subpart-C
         - for all proceedings
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/part-3010/subpart-A
            - for motions & discovery
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/part-3010/subpart-D
            - for proceedings with opportunity for hearing on the record,
         which may or may not apply (TBD)
         - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/part-3010/subpart-F
            - e-filing registration rules
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/3010.121
            - e-filing, filing format, library references, & signature rules
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/3010.120
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/3010.124
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/3010.125
            - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/3010.126
            - Universal Postal Convention
         -
         https://www.upu.int/UPU/media/upu/files/UPU/aboutUpu/acts/manualsInThreeVolumes/actInThreeVolumesManualOfConventionMaj3En.pdf
         - US domestic blind mail
         - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/39/part-IV/chapter-34
      - USPS & PRC regulations & law
         - PRC Mail Classification Schedule
            - https://prc.gov/mail-classification-schedule
            - USPS International Mail Manual
            - https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/welcome.htm
            - USPS Domestic Mail Manual
            - https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/dmm300_landing.htm



   - *Contacts at Postal Regulatory Commission (PRC) *
   - PRC website
         - https://www.prc.gov
      - *Docket clerk, Mary: *
         - dockets at prc.gov
         - The PRC docket clerk is very friendly. She can help you get
         registered for e-filing, help you get any publicly filed
documents, and
         answer technical or practical questions about the filing
system (but not
         procedural questions).
      - *Public Representative, John Avila*
      - john.avila at prc.gov
         - The PR is a PRC lawyer assigned to this case to independently
         represent the public interest, and can probably also answer
some questions
         about procedure etc. He's formally firewalled from everyone
in the PRC who
         makes decisions on behalf of the PRC. He should be able to tell you if
         there's something for which you have to contact the Presiding Officer.
      - *Presiding Officer, Joseph K. Press*
         - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/3012.2 makes it illegal
         to contact him directly — i.e. other than openly by formal
filings and in
         formal hearings — other than for specific circumstances. Most
likely, that
         would be only for "(4) Questions concerning Commission procedures, the
         status of a matter before the Commission, or the procedural
schedule of a
         pending matter, where these issues are not contested matters
before the
         Commission". You can contact him for that, but please try to check the
         dockets clerk and Public Representative first.



   - *Contacts for current parties*
      - *Sai (me) and Fiat Fiendum, Inc. (my 501(c)(3) non-profit)*
         - Note: Sai is my full legal name (I'm mononymous). Please don't
         use any title for me, and use gender neutral language.
         - sai at fiatfiendum.org
         - +1 510 394 4724
            - available most days between noon and 9pm UK time, but please
            email to schedule if possible
         - My extensive folder of related material, legal references, law
         reviews, etc etc (other than my legal notes, drafts, strategy, etc):
            -
            https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vcyHRN-7grrMdY6WzxLEFWzBy4S1luUp
         - *USPS (opposing counsel), Alex Rivera*
         - You should always treat everyone at USPS as actively opposing
         everything we may want, and looking to take advantage of any possible
         misstep or admission or things that could be portrayed as such.
         *Never *include USPS lawyers on anything sensitive or about
         coalition matters.
         - Please do not contact them about negotiations without first
         running it by me (or whoever replaces me as our coalition
lead negotiator),
         so that we present a unified front.
         - USPS general email for PRC issues
            - prccomplaints at usps.gov
            - In your initial contact with them, you should *must *copy
            this email. It is USPS' official contact for PRC matters.
            - Alex is sometimes not available, and the prccomplaints email
            is the backup when that happens.
         - Alex Rivera
            - Alexander.R.Rivera at usps.gov
         - Alex Rivera is USPS' lawyer assigned to on this. Normally, if
            communicating with opposing counsel, you'll email him, not the
            prccomplaints general email.
            - USPS has outright refused to negotiate with me at all for
            several years, and Alex in particular has refused to
negotiate with me at
            all until they lost the order on their motion to dismiss.
He now seems to
            at least superficially suggesting that we may be able to negotiate
            resolutions that are outside the scope of the formal
regulations & law and
            address real-world problems. We'll see.


Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
Sai
President, Fiat Fiendum

P.S. Если вам удобнее, я говорю тоже по-русски. Si cela vous convient
mieux, je parle aussi français. Si le conviene mejor, yo hablo español
tambien.

Sent from my mobile phone; please excuse the concision, typos, and
autocorrect errors.
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From glnorman15 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 20 01:31:39 2024
From: glnorman15 at hotmail.com (GL Norman)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2024 01:31:39 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] FW: Now Accepting Applications: Diverse Law Student ADR
 Summit
In-Reply-To: <SA2PR08MB65071C894C96C19779A79D41CE622@SA2PR08MB6507.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA2PR08MB65071C894C96C19779A79D41CE622@SA2PR08MB6507.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CO1PR05MB83483D884CF29A314F13F424D16C2@CO1PR05MB8348.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>



From: Maggie Lalowski-Zhang <ZhangM at adr.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2024 3:36 PM
To: glnorman15 at hotmail.com
Subject: Now Accepting Applications: Diverse Law Student ADR Summit

Dear Gary,

I hope this email finds you doing well. I wanted to let you know The American Arbitration Association® (AAA®) is now accepting applications to the 2024 Diverse Student ADR Summit in New York City on November 9-10, 2024. As you know, this program provides an in-depth look at careers in arbitration and mediation, featuring presentations from experienced professionals and litigators.

Accepted students will receive a scholarship of up to $2,000 to cover round-trip travel to and hotel expenses in New York.

Please forward this attachment to students who may be interested or post this information in any forum where you know it will be accessible to the students.

Interested students can click here<https://go2.adr.org/Mjk0LVNGUy01MTYAAAGVpL7AhY-XWV3b3LzLB63DSJnnr39dP8Y_1gppaOIh_wXABN3R_7SFtmZjXDNzcivQ-ROd8JU=> to learn more about the program and apply.

If anyone has questions about the Summit, feel free to contact the organizer at AAAStudentADRSummit at adr.org<mailto:AAAStudentADRSummit at adr.org>.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Kind regards,
Maggie Zhang on behalf of

Ingeuneal C. Gray, Esq.
Vice President of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion
American Arbitration Association


[cid:image837881.png at FAADE5BE.3192D7BB]
Maggie Lalowski‑Zhang​​​​
Director of Divisional Operational Support and Online Elections
(She/Her/Hers)
American Arbitration Association
International Centre for Dispute Resolution
T: 212 484 3283<tel:212%20484%203283>

F: 212 307 4387<fax:212%20307%204387>

E: ZhangM at adr.org<mailto:ZhangM at adr.org>
120 Broadway, 21st Floor, New York, NY 10271
adr.org<https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fadr.org%2F&tenantid=pu2aFR6TEe-G1GBFvdVbFg&templateid=830004897f2def1186d46045bdd559db&excomponentid=Ag9XmxcYu-hZYIgkW7tdPHOLdMqDUpnzJVrAdAdA4Rs&excomponenttype=Link&signature=aG0QB4xbnImGFUcYVq9fRyvVeVnDp9acG6Av8NC46oyHqYtXw301IEjuiw6ai12EYTfCf6gkD2RUA8KGMYBezK8dtl2H69JxEAShdgowDfLtmCLgAkXVhFSiS_1vqvLp7XEvdCcQEq9oNbUNNuhnzsnBtduf-J54nWv5-OYCC2Pfl4B0zuTwldUkmFLZkbTSRBdIe35duwgvJwPboUlY1JjT-dAbztAHirtG5LTPjAbIO3IHO6GcOSyXLN6ykSZhzE2Njn9P02LNaYWuFrvrp1PU_7T3Hw6if0Xm8LFWOkbuFQJiDfchRnmx-ndFNQUtEsuwW6qGtCv6P14pRbL0xg&v=1&imprintMessageId=aa45639c-9724-4d20-b70d-512010e5b76c> | icdr.org<https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ficdr.org%2F&tenantid=pu2aFR6TEe-G1GBFvdVbFg&templateid=830004897f2def1186d46045bdd559db&excomponentid=5QZk2NjCqsNnZEAAnwbcdWOOWonZm6r5WMrxvggIrKQ&excomponenttype=Link&signature=OO1XY9Tprt1B1hhK5aKtkvfD2rIlK7qn-NdRU79Qx5rsWZwIiV7kp-NTK-B_61waK7HVmdOjN1EaGF3MmItuzgIMPTe2Re9sUm8_4XJyeAcG1As1gKmEH-w2q8UNO0EvPgnrYpN7Yy5IbF2XzyZEBGmhOqDQSAF7eOZWEJzMwb2SDxs4i-fYJrj3rEFUzQ7emnJ9Myi21OaAanDJYCWmJ_ldWYUj3i3HkUuZlcm-Meqr0FP1NUqSzSrAf28wrE9cgk8OvbiMX-av7xXsy3cYKxKoZjz7XMOpde2_4iIksBZh-iIp5OCc4G4zrUUdwyu90DmiOb34YLjVBX270G7ARg&v=1&imprintMessageId=aa45639c-9724-4d20-b70d-512010e5b76c> | aaamediation.org<https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aaamediation.org%2F&tenantid=pu2aFR6TEe-G1GBFvdVbFg&templateid=830004897f2def1186d46045bdd559db&excomponentid=2mBJUyaZI5IsZvYXpP6_v8X-4AepxCqW0WXbs2h-1IE&excomponenttype=Link&signature=W6GwaDleXbsGzKb53IBWawz61q9XbyBnI0U_fa36qRAoTc_glcv9MesfFfzpYZRAamtN37bSboLSGOcXcQGQhqOsuY94va7r8aiF8VCHJeCaEGIcBv7V94ZUi3VKp_fLulsmlAU-CAfI6ytZxo9BtizrWPHcQLChFfRNgU-tQl96TCVx7iFWJBH-Tp0SbyF7IkJLIfGwwAJ_NKuHZc5Gm-tr7khC2U1io8qVod1-rf4Y-fudmRIZl-yVAK_kC7vrOlcWd8j_yLXai4bckdthOTzgStJArruiZkYhOzKKrPVfGPapcpkBnuDN8aXBUPceShanaM7xGqbBPKc5zZqikA&v=1&imprintMessageId=aa45639c-9724-4d20-b70d-512010e5b76c>
[cid:image261949.png at 12281F74.D3512343]
The information in this transmittal (including attachments, if any) is privileged and/or confidential and is intended only for the recipient(s) listed above. Any review, use, disclosure, distribution or copying of this transmittal is prohibited except by or on behalf of the intended recipient. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify me immediately by reply email and destroy all copies of the transmittal. Thank you.

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From nssulca at gmail.com  Wed Sep 25 19:32:52 2024
From: nssulca at gmail.com (Natalia Sulca)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 15:32:52 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law school
Message-ID: <007301db0f81$b6969000$23c3b000$@gmail.com>

Good day all,

I hope everyone here is in good health. I come with a question that has
probably been asked before. I am a 1l and already am facing issues with
understanding and placing citations and how to visually format documents for
school assignments. I was wondering what solution as a community any of you
could suggest as something that could be helpful to me for life in this
area? Also, as far as school, what accommodations should I be asking for
that are reasonable enough that my grades won't be affected by things out of
my control but that will still allow me to learn effectively? I look forward
to your responses and expertise.

All the best,

Natalia Sulca 


From paigecmiller6 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 25 20:09:43 2024
From: paigecmiller6 at gmail.com (Paige)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 13:09:43 -0700
Subject: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law
 school
In-Reply-To: <007301db0f81$b6969000$23c3b000$@gmail.com>
References: <007301db0f81$b6969000$23c3b000$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44B9F471-79C2-4850-A1FA-3486751A6B49@gmail.com>

Hi Natalia,
I am a current 2L who wrapped up research and writing last year! 

Feel free to reach out to me at paigecmiller6 at gmail.com - I would be happy to chat with you over email or phone! 

Best,
Paige Miller

> On Sep 25, 2024, at 12:34 PM, Natalia Sulca via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good day all,
> 
> I hope everyone here is in good health. I come with a question that has
> probably been asked before. I am a 1l and already am facing issues with
> understanding and placing citations and how to visually format documents for
> school assignments. I was wondering what solution as a community any of you
> could suggest as something that could be helpful to me for life in this
> area? Also, as far as school, what accommodations should I be asking for
> that are reasonable enough that my grades won't be affected by things out of
> my control but that will still allow me to learn effectively? I look forward
> to your responses and expertise.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Natalia Sulca
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paigecmiller6%40gmail.com


From p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au  Wed Sep 25 21:19:59 2024
From: p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au (Paul Harpur)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 21:19:59 +0000
Subject: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law
 school
In-Reply-To: <007301db0f81$b6969000$23c3b000$@gmail.com>
References: <007301db0f81$b6969000$23c3b000$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SYYP282MB1152372C4E6A4A09B509801298692@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Gday Natalia,
I'm a totally blind law professor in Australia.  I still suck at making things look pretty.  If I had a time machine, I would tell my first year law student-self to pay a 3L to help edit the citations on assignments before I handed them in.  It will always be harder and more time consuming.  In the first semester you will have a million things on your plate.  I'd focus on the critical stuff and work with the library staff and others to slowly build up your skills over the first semester.  Then in the break between semesters I'd really focus on getting training on it.
You could ask for the above as a reasonable accommodation - visual translator if you will.  If you were deaf you could not hear.  If you are blind you cannot see.
Finally, welcome to law and a profession which will change your life.



Professor Paul Harpur OAM   
BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
The University of Queensland Law School
(TEQSA PRV12080)  

Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
Australian Research Council Future Fellow
Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel 

"Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive".  Paul Harpur, 'Universities as Disability Champions of Change' TEDx.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Natalia Sulca via BlindLaw
Sent: Thursday, 26 September 2024 5:33 AM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Natalia Sulca <nssulca at gmail.com>
Subject: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law school

Good day all,

I hope everyone here is in good health. I come with a question that has probably been asked before. I am a 1l and already am facing issues with understanding and placing citations and how to visually format documents for school assignments. I was wondering what solution as a community any of you could suggest as something that could be helpful to me for life in this area? Also, as far as school, what accommodations should I be asking for that are reasonable enough that my grades won't be affected by things out of my control but that will still allow me to learn effectively? I look forward to your responses and expertise.

All the best,

Natalia Sulca 

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com


From syedrizvinfb at gmail.com  Wed Sep 25 22:11:58 2024
From: syedrizvinfb at gmail.com (Syed Rizvi)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 17:11:58 -0500
Subject: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law
 school
In-Reply-To: <SYYP282MB1152372C4E6A4A09B509801298692@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <SYYP282MB1152372C4E6A4A09B509801298692@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <794159E5-8D8C-47B2-8CD1-9326012E7EE3@gmail.com>

I find chat gpt to be very helpful with at least providing instructions on citations. 

Sent from my iPhone.

> On Sep 25, 2024, at 4:21 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Gday Natalia,
> I'm a totally blind law professor in Australia.  I still suck at making things look pretty.  If I had a time machine, I would tell my first year law student-self to pay a 3L to help edit the citations on assignments before I handed them in.  It will always be harder and more time consuming.  In the first semester you will have a million things on your plate.  I'd focus on the critical stuff and work with the library staff and others to slowly build up your skills over the first semester.  Then in the break between semesters I'd really focus on getting training on it.
> You could ask for the above as a reasonable accommodation - visual translator if you will.  If you were deaf you could not hear.  If you are blind you cannot see.
> Finally, welcome to law and a profession which will change your life.
> 
> 
> 
> Professor Paul Harpur OAM   
> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing), PLY
> The University of Queensland Law School
> (TEQSA PRV12080)  
> 
> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability
> Australian Research Council Future Fellow
> Member of the Higher Education Standards Panel 
> 
> "Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive".  Paul Harpur, 'Universities as Disability Champions of Change' TEDx.
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Natalia Sulca via BlindLaw
> Sent: Thursday, 26 September 2024 5:33 AM
> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Natalia Sulca <nssulca at gmail.com>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law school
> 
> Good day all,
> 
> I hope everyone here is in good health. I come with a question that has probably been asked before. I am a 1l and already am facing issues with understanding and placing citations and how to visually format documents for school assignments. I was wondering what solution as a community any of you could suggest as something that could be helpful to me for life in this area? Also, as far as school, what accommodations should I be asking for that are reasonable enough that my grades won't be affected by things out of my control but that will still allow me to learn effectively? I look forward to your responses and expertise.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Natalia Sulca 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/syedrizvinfb%40gmail.com


From nssulca at gmail.com  Wed Sep 25 22:24:43 2024
From: nssulca at gmail.com (Natalia Sulca)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 18:24:43 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law
 school
In-Reply-To: <794159E5-8D8C-47B2-8CD1-9326012E7EE3@gmail.com>
References: <SYYP282MB1152372C4E6A4A09B509801298692@SYYP282MB1152.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <794159E5-8D8C-47B2-8CD1-9326012E7EE3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a801db0f99$b8ce1c90$2a6a55b0$@gmail.com>

Yes the instructions have been awesome at finally making me understand some things.
Natalia 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Syed Rizvi via BlindLaw
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2024 6:12 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Syed Rizvi <syedrizvinfb at gmail.com>; Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law school

I find chat gpt to be very helpful with at least providing instructions on citations. 

Sent from my iPhone.

> On Sep 25, 2024, at 4:21 PM, Paul Harpur via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Gday Natalia,
> I'm a totally blind law professor in Australia.  I still suck at making things look pretty.  If I had a time machine, I would tell my first year law student-self to pay a 3L to help edit the citations on assignments before I handed them in.  It will always be harder and more time consuming.  In the first semester you will have a million things on your plate.  I'd focus on the critical stuff and work with the library staff and others to slowly build up your skills over the first semester.  Then in the break between semesters I'd really focus on getting training on it.
> You could ask for the above as a reasonable accommodation - visual translator if you will.  If you were deaf you could not hear.  If you are blind you cannot see.
> Finally, welcome to law and a profession which will change your life.
> 
> 
> 
> Professor Paul Harpur OAM   
> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, FHEA, solicitor of the High Court of 
> Australia (non-practicing), PLY The University of Queensland Law 
> School (TEQSA PRV12080)
> 
> Associate, Harvard Law School Project on Disability Australian 
> Research Council Future Fellow Member of the Higher Education 
> Standards Panel
> 
> "Universities train the disability leaders of tomorrow, employ the disability leaders of today, and produce research and innovation which can make the world more inclusive".  Paul Harpur, 'Universities as Disability Champions of Change' TEDx.
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Natalia 
> Sulca via BlindLaw
> Sent: Thursday, 26 September 2024 5:33 AM
> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Natalia Sulca <nssulca at gmail.com>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law 
> school
> 
> Good day all,
> 
> I hope everyone here is in good health. I come with a question that has probably been asked before. I am a 1l and already am facing issues with understanding and placing citations and how to visually format documents for school assignments. I was wondering what solution as a community any of you could suggest as something that could be helpful to me for life in this area? Also, as far as school, what accommodations should I be asking for that are reasonable enough that my grades won't be affected by things out of my control but that will still allow me to learn effectively? I look forward to your responses and expertise.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Natalia Sulca
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gma
> il.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BlindLaw mailing list
> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/syedrizvinfb%40g
> mail.com

_______________________________________________
BlindLaw mailing list
BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindLaw:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/nssulca%40gmail.com



From laurenbishop96 at icloud.com  Wed Sep 25 22:32:25 2024
From: laurenbishop96 at icloud.com (Lauren Bishop)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 18:32:25 -0400
Subject: [blindLaw] Thoughts on how to manage legal citations in Law
 school
In-Reply-To: <44B9F471-79C2-4850-A1FA-3486751A6B49@gmail.com>
References: <44B9F471-79C2-4850-A1FA-3486751A6B49@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DC576AFE-9E58-48C6-B8B5-70108F2F1EF2@icloud.com>

> Hi Nataliya,
> Your legal citations will go immediately after the rule of law you site. Just like in your law school textbooks. You can tell if something is italicized or a different font by having your jaws cursor hover over text and pressing jaw key, plus F. If you do this twice, it will tell you some more attributes about the text that’s being highlighted. If you use the online version of the blue book, you can press Jaws key plus F to see what font they are using in their citations. I highly recommend getting the subscription or having someone get it for you. Some school libraries also provide the blue book subscription online.  as for formatting documents, I ask word doc template of what I’m expected to write. I can either fill in the template, or use the jaws key plus F to determine how the documents is formatted, and how the various texts in the document are formatted. If you have , a question on how to do a certain formatting in Microsoft Word, you can highlight the text that you wish to format press, alts, and navigate left with either the arrows or the tab key until you get to the search box and type in what you were looking for an arrow down. there, you will find the button you need to push. Also, if you press alt plus windows plus I, jaws will bring you to any formatting inconsistencies in your document, such as random bits of extra spaces or paragraphs that somehow ended up randomly in the middle of a page. You can also have someone proofread your documents for formatting. That’s what I always did.