[Blindmath] Can PDF math texts be accessed via screen reader?

Fri Apr 10 03:00:12 UTC 2009

That's interesting about wikipedia alt text for math graphics containing 
latex...  Guess I never encountered that yet but it is logical.

I have a question about ViewPlus embossers.
I am salivating over the cheapest embosser that will produce DotsPlus 
equations, which John sent me a sample of.
What is the current price range for a Tiger? (or has the Tiger been 
superceeded by something new?)
I have an old Everest embosser which works quite nicely for my purposes, and 
even has some graphics capability, although I haven't had need for it.
I have recently called around for tech suport on this embosser and found 
that a new one similar to it costs over $4000. This isn't much less than a 
Tiger used to cost last time I checked. So are there ViewPlus embossers that 
are cost effective? If I sell my Everest, which is in good condition, what 
will a ViewPlus machine cost me?
I post this here as someone else might be interested in a comparison. 
Everest handles some graphics, can print tactile print letters, can print 
doublesided braille on a variety of paper sizes. What does a Tiger do? I 
asked someone from a company that sold Inex stuff and they said ViewPlus is 
a graphics embosser only. Now is that true? What about interlocking 
doublesided braille? (That would be impossible with some graphics, but in 
braille only mode can it emboss on both sides of the page?)

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Can PDF math texts be accessed via screen reader?

Hello,
John is correct about the current status of PDF, infty reader is about
the only way you will get access to equations. However if you can
contact the author of the document you may wish to explain your
situation and ask whether they have a LaTeX source version of it you
could have (quite a number of mathematical PDFs are produced from LaTeX
but not all are, and also some authors are reluctant to give out the
source, its always worth asking though). You may wish to find web
resources in mathml or those websites which use images in html for
equations but set the alt tag of the equation image to the LaTeX source
(eg. wikipedia seems to do that).

Also John mentions the IVEO for graphs and diagrams, and I have to say
although I don't have one when I saw one being demonstrated to me I was
surprised how well it works (it managed a diagram which I provided
(demonstrator had no prior knowledge what this diagram was going to be)
and it was just a matter of scanning the document in and then producing
a tactile image with the tiger printer and getting the IVEO to process
the image file (it does OCR to find the labels) and then putting the
tactile diagram on the touch pad and then exploring the diagram). What I
saw of it with the diagram I tried probably wasn't as good as it can do
(due to performing OCR as it was from a paper source) and also no extra
information had been added to parts of the diagram. I believe if you are
starting from a computer file then alot more can be done (chunks of text
explaining the diagram can be associated with particular parts of the
diagram, if labels are in the file as text then OCR and its inaccuracies
are not introduced as the actual text can be used, etc).

I will just state here I have no association with viewplus, I am talking
as an individual who has seen some of their products.

Unfortunately all of this does come at a cost and if budgets are limited
you have to just try and work out what will be the most useful. EG.
might it be more cost effective to just have someone explain diagrams to
you and use something like swell paper to produce the diagrams?

Michael Whapples
On 09/04/09 02:07, John Gardner wrote:
> Hello Richard.  The Infty Reader can do OCR of PDF and is surprisingly 
> good
> at getting both the math and text right.  It's not cheap at $900, but it 
> is
> the only game in town.
>
> See
> http://www.inftyproject.org/
> Their ChattyInfty accessible math editor has a bit of a learning curve, 
> but
> works well also.  Both these products are made by a university research 
> team
> and do not have easy user-friendly interfaces.  But they do work.
>
> By the way, it is absolutely not true that you cannot access the graphs 
> and
> diagrams.  Look at the ViewPlus IVEO Creator Pro package.  You'll need a
> ViewPlus embosser to make the tactile copy, but it also works well.  Lots 
> of
> money for software and hardware, but at least today you have really full
> access to math and science.  Wasn't tru a couple of years ago.
> http://www.viewplus.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Richard Dinger
> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 5:05 PM
> To: BlindMath
> Subject: [Blindmath] Can PDF math texts be accessed via screen reader?
>
> Hello,
>
> Sorry, this is a bit long.
>
> I have spent most of my working career as a software engineer and recently 
> I
> have been looking into neural networks and linear classifiers.  That led 
> to
> support vector machines and compact vector machines, which leads to linear
> algebra in general.  So my initial interest/question for this group was
> where can I find an accessible text on undergraduate level linear algebra?
>
> I took linear algebra 40 years ago at the University of Washington, but
> recall very little of that course.  But then that question led to what may
> be a broader question for this group, namely, what are some solid 
> approaches
> to accessing mathematics texts in PDF via computer screen reader.  I 
> mention
> PDF texts as I see many of them offered while googling topics.
>
> When I say access I mean access to both the written text and at least some
> access to any equations.  I understand that graphs and diagrams will not 
> be
> accessible, but can usually be infered from the text.
>
> I would be completely happy if equations were in some markup language like
> La Tex as that can eventually be understood.
>
> Are there any commercial products that can convert text and equations to
> some other format such as word?
>
> Finally, is pursuing PDF a fools errand?
>
> I will post on a different thread regarding La Tex.
>
> Richard
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