[Blindmath] Questions about tools for Math and Science Students

Fri Aug 7 19:46:45 UTC 2009

As far as I can think, 8 dot mode won't help with dotsplus in its 
current form. When I said dotsplus uses graphical tactile symbols I mean 
they are like the print ones (possibly slightly simplified to make them 
easier to feel), so the plus (+) in dotsplus is a raised cross (line 
horizontal with a vertical line passing through it), the less than sign 
(<) is one diagonal line above another meeting in the middle on the left 
hand side.

So if it were changed to be possible to show on an 8 dot display it 
would loose the advantage of being easy to learn if you know the print 
notation.

However reading LaTeX source documents on a Braille display can be 
reasonable (particularly when simple LaTeX is used, you probably want to 
forget trying to read LaTeX made by software such as scientific notebook 
as this LaTeX can get quite complicated to achieve exactly the layout in 
the viewer). Also you may want to consider connecting your Braillenote 
to your computer as a Braille display.

Michael Whapples
On 07/08/09 19:49, Jose Tamayo wrote:
> I have had a little bit of time to consider your response.  Thank you very much.  My BrailleNote can be configured for 8 dot configuration.  I wonder if ViewPlus can take advantage of this feature.  On the BrailleNote, there is the cursor which can be configured to be part of the Braille display.  Under Options, Braille Options, there are a couple of options that might work with the 8-dot Braille configuration used by the DotsPlus system.  Of course, I recognize there is currently no way to enter dotsplus into the Braillenote but the display might help if configured for 8 dots.
>
> Any thoughts.
>
> Regards,
> Jose Tamayo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Whapples
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:39 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about tools for Math and Science Students
>
> Hello,
> As far as I understood it the viewplus solution isn't to use nemeth
> (although the tiger printers can be used to produce nemeth Braille
> should you want that). The viewplus way of Brailling maths is to use
> dotsplus, which unlike all other Braille systems presents the maths in a
> two dimensional layout and using graphical type symbols for some of the
> maths symbols instead of being restricted to the standard 6 dot Braille
> cell. The advantages of this are that:
>
> * the tactile symbols used and the equations look like the print version
> so should make it easier for someone to learn (I would say easier for
> someone who knew print maths before loosing their sight).
> * The maths Braille is produced by a font being applied to equations in
> word, mathtype and similar software. This is meant to be more reliable
> as there is no translation stage, just simple substitution.
> * The particular tiger printer you mention is capable of producing the
> print equation along with the Braille (although I thought that equations
> in dotsplus were meant to be reasonably understandable by a sighted
> person due to the similarity in the symbols and layout used).
> * The tiger printer also will be useful for producing a tactile diagram
> should you ever need that.
>
> Some of the things I feel are a disadvantage of the viewplus system:
>
> * Dotsplus requires a graphics capable device such as the tiger printer.
> You probably won't be able to produce dotsplus on the standard embosser
> and certainly not on a Braille display or Braille note taker.
> * You will never be working in dotsplus directly other than for reading
> (IE. there is no way to enter dotsplus into a computer, Braille
> equipment like Perkins Braillers and Braille frames are not able to
> produce dotsplus, etc) so you will probably want some other system for
> quick working out, document authoring (although for document authoring
> you may not work in nemeth Braille anyway as there are reasonable ways
> to produce documents on a computer), note taking, etc.
> * Dotsplus can only be read as a tactile document in hard copy form due
> to the lack of graphical Braille displays.
> * I have heard people raise the question (I am not sure whether I agree
> or not, I include this point mainly as I know it is a concern of some)
> that dotsplus is not the most efficient way of reading for a blind
> person due to all the movement you need to make (this is due to the two
> dimensional layout) where as Braille is linear and so the hand only has
> to follow a line and you know where the next bit of text is. I am
> uncertain about this for a couple of reasons, isn't it more important to
> have accurate maths than a poor translation in a more efficient layout.
> Also viewplus claim that the two dimensional layout helps with
> understanding the maths, I can understand this as it is very clear and
> obvious where parts of the fraction are without really paying much
> attention to content (two dimensional maths is the default in print,
> there must be a reason why it was chosen).
>
> Deciding whether dotsplus is for you is something you will have to
> decide on, what is most important for you. Also you may want to contact
> viewplus for some dotsplus samples to see what its like.
>
> Moving on to the back translation software. I personally don't feel its
> worth bothering about if you are a very confident computer user.
>
> One very popular choice for document authoring is LaTeX. This system is
> a mark up language where you create a plain text document with special
> commands inserted into it to tell the LaTeX compiler how you want it
> laid out and if you want some special symbols (eg. if you were to write
> the fraction alpha over square root 2, you would write \frac{\alpha
> }{\sqrt{2}} ). As LaTeX is plain text, you can use what ever text editor
> takes your fancy but you may find that some of the more powerful editors
> like emacs or edsharp (for windows) will help you significantly. LaTeX
> is commonly used by sighted people in mathematical and science subjects,
> so you may find people at university who can help with any issues you
> have or you will find plenty of information on the internet. One thing I
> will say is that LaTeX does take a little bit to learn, so for someone
> only doing a little bit of maths they may not feel it was worth
> learning, however if you are going to do a lot of maths and plan to
> continue in a mathematical type field then LaTeX is well worth the time
> learning it. Also for very important documents you may wish to get a
> sighted person to read over a PDF created from LaTeX to confirm that all
> the layout is how you really want it, unfortunately accessibility of PDF
> isn't wonderful for layout checking. Also forget trying to read maths in
> PDF directly, there is some promising work being done in that area but
> it is some time before it really becomes something useful.
>
>   From what you have said I think LaTeX may be worth your time, but
> should you really feel that a more wysiwyg editor would be better, then
> may be a tool like chattyinfty would be good. I don't know what state
> chattyinfty is in, but I have heard that it is quite good for that type
> of editor.
>
> Now something else which may be useful for reading is the inftyreader
> software. It is an OCR system for mathematical documents. I have heard
> plenty of good reports on it, but don't forget it is OCR so output from
> it won't always be perfect (particularly if the source document is poor
> quality.
>
> Michael Whapples
> On 07/08/09 15:28, Jose Tamayo wrote:
>    
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope I am not out of line with this subject matter.  It has to do with
>> Math and Blind students.  By way of introducing myself, I will tell you I
>> lost my sight about six years ago.  I have Retinitis Pigmentosa.  I have
>> decided to complete a traditional Computer Science degree which will require
>> quite a bit of Math.  Now, for the good  on topic subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t have a good grasp of Nemeth code.  I have a good grasp of Literary
>> Braille.  My research has led me to the following solutions but I want to
>> learn as much as I can about the tools that I am researching.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.        The Nemeth Code tutorial from Gaylen Kapperman (HumanWare.com)
>>
>> I have been working on learning the Nemeth code using this tutorial from Dr.
>> Kapperman.  The tutorial is very good, although I think I would arrange the
>> layout a bit differently.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.        Math Made Simple from ViewPlus Technologies
>>
>>
>>
>> This package is very expensive but it has the tools that I think a blind
>> mathematician or scientist would required.  The vendor claims that the
>> Embosser will print Nemeth Code along side with the formulas.  There are
>> questions, of course but I am simply looking for opinions or comments on
>> this product.  They don’t perform backtranslation of Nemeth Braille but they
>> claim that they can print nemeth Braille and equivalent formulas on the same
>> page.  Has anyone had experience with this product or heard of someone who
>> does?  The components of the package are as follows.
>>
>>
>>
>> -          Emprint Braille Embosser
>>
>> -          Accessible Braille and Math  software  (MathType equation
>> editor, Audio Graphing calculator,
>>
>> -          Tiger software Suite  (TSS) Braille Translation software
>>
>>
>>
>> 3.        Logisoft  Solutions Transbraille
>> (http://www.logicalsoft.net/TransBraille.html)
>>
>>
>>
>> According to the vendor, this tool will back translate from embossed
>> Braille, including Nemeth code, into a PDF file that a sighted person can
>> read.   Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 4.       Nemetext – Nemeth Backtranslator – accessisoft (www.)
>> http://www.accessisoft.com/nemetex.htm)
>>
>>
>>
>> I quote directly  from their web site:  “The Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translatorä
>> uses a unique process to examine the Computer Braille, identify the content
>> as either Nemeth Braille Math or normal text, and convert it into LaTeX
>> <http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Wiki/index.php/LaTeX:About>    so it can
>> be read by any standard LaTeX-based editing program, such as TeXnicCenter
>> <http://www.texniccenter.org/>   .  The resulting file could, depending on the
>> LaTeX program in use, then be hard-copy printed in normal printed math or
>> saved to a Portable Document Format (PDF) file for electronic transfer via
>> e-mail or posting/sharing.”
>>
>>
>>
>> If anyone has any thoughts, I would welcome them.  I am obviously not
>> preparedfor any of the solutions above but in time I will be.  My goal is to
>> have a set of tools that I can learn and utilize in order to complete my
>> coursework.  I I have a BrailleNote MPower BT32.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jose Tamayo
>>
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>>      
>
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