[Blindmath] Questions about tools for Math and Science Students
Michael Whapples
mwhapples at aim.com
Fri Aug 7 20:28:00 UTC 2009
Sorry didn't read your message correctly in my previous response, you do
say UK maths is supported.
Michael Whapples
On 07/08/09 19:31, John Gardner wrote:
> Hi. Michael is basically correct about DotsPlus advantages and
> disadvantages. However he's a bit out of date about nemeth. The
> ViewPlus TSS braille formatter can translate to Nemeth from MS Word
> (using MathType editor). And Emprint does emboss it, and print the
> original ink equation. The user can select a number of math options,
> including Nemeth, UK Maths, and DotsPlus. So you can pick the one you
> like best.
>
> Hope this is helpful.
>
> John Gardner
>
>
>
>
> On 8/7/2009 10:20 AM, Jose Tamayo wrote:
>> Thank you. Is there a good source for learning LATx?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jose Tamayo
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Whapples
>> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:39 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about tools for Math and Science
>> Students
>>
>> Hello,
>> As far as I understood it the viewplus solution isn't to use nemeth
>> (although the tiger printers can be used to produce nemeth Braille
>> should you want that). The viewplus way of Brailling maths is to use
>> dotsplus, which unlike all other Braille systems presents the maths in a
>> two dimensional layout and using graphical type symbols for some of the
>> maths symbols instead of being restricted to the standard 6 dot Braille
>> cell. The advantages of this are that:
>>
>> * the tactile symbols used and the equations look like the print version
>> so should make it easier for someone to learn (I would say easier for
>> someone who knew print maths before loosing their sight).
>> * The maths Braille is produced by a font being applied to equations in
>> word, mathtype and similar software. This is meant to be more reliable
>> as there is no translation stage, just simple substitution.
>> * The particular tiger printer you mention is capable of producing the
>> print equation along with the Braille (although I thought that equations
>> in dotsplus were meant to be reasonably understandable by a sighted
>> person due to the similarity in the symbols and layout used).
>> * The tiger printer also will be useful for producing a tactile diagram
>> should you ever need that.
>>
>> Some of the things I feel are a disadvantage of the viewplus system:
>>
>> * Dotsplus requires a graphics capable device such as the tiger printer.
>> You probably won't be able to produce dotsplus on the standard embosser
>> and certainly not on a Braille display or Braille note taker.
>> * You will never be working in dotsplus directly other than for reading
>> (IE. there is no way to enter dotsplus into a computer, Braille
>> equipment like Perkins Braillers and Braille frames are not able to
>> produce dotsplus, etc) so you will probably want some other system for
>> quick working out, document authoring (although for document authoring
>> you may not work in nemeth Braille anyway as there are reasonable ways
>> to produce documents on a computer), note taking, etc.
>> * Dotsplus can only be read as a tactile document in hard copy form due
>> to the lack of graphical Braille displays.
>> * I have heard people raise the question (I am not sure whether I agree
>> or not, I include this point mainly as I know it is a concern of some)
>> that dotsplus is not the most efficient way of reading for a blind
>> person due to all the movement you need to make (this is due to the two
>> dimensional layout) where as Braille is linear and so the hand only has
>> to follow a line and you know where the next bit of text is. I am
>> uncertain about this for a couple of reasons, isn't it more important to
>> have accurate maths than a poor translation in a more efficient layout.
>> Also viewplus claim that the two dimensional layout helps with
>> understanding the maths, I can understand this as it is very clear and
>> obvious where parts of the fraction are without really paying much
>> attention to content (two dimensional maths is the default in print,
>> there must be a reason why it was chosen).
>>
>> Deciding whether dotsplus is for you is something you will have to
>> decide on, what is most important for you. Also you may want to contact
>> viewplus for some dotsplus samples to see what its like.
>>
>> Moving on to the back translation software. I personally don't feel its
>> worth bothering about if you are a very confident computer user.
>>
>> One very popular choice for document authoring is LaTeX. This system is
>> a mark up language where you create a plain text document with special
>> commands inserted into it to tell the LaTeX compiler how you want it
>> laid out and if you want some special symbols (eg. if you were to write
>> the fraction alpha over square root 2, you would write \frac{\alpha
>> }{\sqrt{2}} ). As LaTeX is plain text, you can use what ever text editor
>> takes your fancy but you may find that some of the more powerful editors
>> like emacs or edsharp (for windows) will help you significantly. LaTeX
>> is commonly used by sighted people in mathematical and science subjects,
>> so you may find people at university who can help with any issues you
>> have or you will find plenty of information on the internet. One thing I
>> will say is that LaTeX does take a little bit to learn, so for someone
>> only doing a little bit of maths they may not feel it was worth
>> learning, however if you are going to do a lot of maths and plan to
>> continue in a mathematical type field then LaTeX is well worth the time
>> learning it. Also for very important documents you may wish to get a
>> sighted person to read over a PDF created from LaTeX to confirm that all
>> the layout is how you really want it, unfortunately accessibility of PDF
>> isn't wonderful for layout checking. Also forget trying to read maths in
>> PDF directly, there is some promising work being done in that area but
>> it is some time before it really becomes something useful.
>>
>> From what you have said I think LaTeX may be worth your time, but
>> should you really feel that a more wysiwyg editor would be better, then
>> may be a tool like chattyinfty would be good. I don't know what state
>> chattyinfty is in, but I have heard that it is quite good for that type
>> of editor.
>>
>> Now something else which may be useful for reading is the inftyreader
>> software. It is an OCR system for mathematical documents. I have heard
>> plenty of good reports on it, but don't forget it is OCR so output from
>> it won't always be perfect (particularly if the source document is poor
>> quality.
>>
>> Michael Whapples
>> On 07/08/09 15:28, Jose Tamayo wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope I am not out of line with this subject matter. It has to do
>>> with
>>> Math and Blind students. By way of introducing myself, I will tell
>>> you I
>>> lost my sight about six years ago. I have Retinitis Pigmentosa. I
>>> have
>>> decided to complete a traditional Computer Science degree which will
>>> require
>>> quite a bit of Math. Now, for the good on topic subject.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don’t have a good grasp of Nemeth code. I have a good grasp of
>>> Literary
>>> Braille. My research has led me to the following solutions but I
>>> want to
>>> learn as much as I can about the tools that I am researching.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. The Nemeth Code tutorial from Gaylen Kapperman
>>> (HumanWare.com)
>>>
>>> I have been working on learning the Nemeth code using this tutorial
>>> from Dr.
>>> Kapperman. The tutorial is very good, although I think I would
>>> arrange the
>>> layout a bit differently.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2. Math Made Simple from ViewPlus Technologies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This package is very expensive but it has the tools that I think a
>>> blind
>>> mathematician or scientist would required. The vendor claims that the
>>> Embosser will print Nemeth Code along side with the formulas. There
>>> are
>>> questions, of course but I am simply looking for opinions or
>>> comments on
>>> this product. They don’t perform backtranslation of Nemeth Braille
>>> but they
>>> claim that they can print nemeth Braille and equivalent formulas on
>>> the same
>>> page. Has anyone had experience with this product or heard of
>>> someone who
>>> does? The components of the package are as follows.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Emprint Braille Embosser
>>>
>>> - Accessible Braille and Math software (MathType equation
>>> editor, Audio Graphing calculator,
>>>
>>> - Tiger software Suite (TSS) Braille Translation software
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. Logisoft Solutions Transbraille
>>> (http://www.logicalsoft.net/TransBraille.html)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> According to the vendor, this tool will back translate from embossed
>>> Braille, including Nemeth code, into a PDF file that a sighted
>>> person can
>>> read. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 4. Nemetext – Nemeth Backtranslator – accessisoft (www.)
>>> http://www.accessisoft.com/nemetex.htm)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I quote directly from their web site: “The Nemetex Nemeth
>>> Back-Translatorä
>>> uses a unique process to examine the Computer Braille, identify the
>>> content
>>> as either Nemeth Braille Math or normal text, and convert it into LaTeX
>>> <http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Wiki/index.php/LaTeX:About>
>>> so it can
>>> be read by any standard LaTeX-based editing program, such as
>>> TeXnicCenter
>>> <http://www.texniccenter.org/> . The resulting file could,
>>> depending on the
>>> LaTeX program in use, then be hard-copy printed in normal printed
>>> math or
>>> saved to a Portable Document Format (PDF) file for electronic
>>> transfer via
>>> e-mail or posting/sharing.”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If anyone has any thoughts, I would welcome them. I am obviously not
>>> preparedfor any of the solutions above but in time I will be. My
>>> goal is to
>>> have a set of tools that I can learn and utilize in order to
>>> complete my
>>> coursework. I I have a BrailleNote MPower BT32.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jose Tamayo
>>>
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>>
>>
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