[Blindmath] Maths on the web (yet again)

Tue Jul 27 18:35:13 UTC 2010

Hi Neil,

A couple of points before I go to sleep.

- Can you give an example of a site using MathJax?
A quick check of the website doesn't lead me to any real world examples.
I've been wondering if Sage's site uses MathJax.
http://www.sagenb.org/pub 

- I check your blog regularly for any updates.

Regards
--- On Tue, 7/27/10, Neil Soiffer <NeilS at dessci.com> wrote:

> From: Neil Soiffer <NeilS at dessci.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Maths on the web (yet again)
> To: andrew.stacey at math.ntnu.no, "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 10:26 PM
> That's a very nice summary, and I
> agree with everything you say.  I do want
> to point to a new technology called "MathJax"  (see
> mathjax.org).  MathJax
> is a Javascript based renderer that will render MathML or a
> standard subset
> of TeX for math  (most people forget that TeX is a
> powerful programming
> language that allows its syntax and the meaning of commands
> to be changed or
> extended).  MathJax has the ability to be configured
> so that it will pass
> MathML or converted TeX to the browser (for Firefox or
> IE+MathPlayer).  One
> great thing about MathJax is the chicken and egg problem is
> "cracked" (sorry
> for the pun) -- MathML can now be rendered on all modern
> browsers, including
> on iphones and ipads!
> 
> If you are using IE+MathPlayer and have MathJax configured,
> then the math is
> accessible.  Of course, anytime you convert from one
> language to another,
> there are some assumptions that get made, etc, but MathJax
> means that even
> if you authored your wiki, blog, or general web page with
> TeX, it can still
> be accessible.  To author using MathJax, simply add
> the approppriate call to
> MathJax in the header for the page.  See mathjax.org
> for details and
> examples.
> 
> There are some really exciting developments related to
> MathJax and MathML 3
> coming soon.  I'll be blogging about them over the
> next month or two.  At
> the risk of being too self-promoting, I invite everyone to
> check out the
> blog at http://accessiblemath.dessci.com/.
> 
> Neil Soiffer
> Senior Scientist
> Design Science, Inc.
> www.dessci.com
> ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy,
> Equation Editor ~
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Andrew Stacey
> <andrew.stacey at math.ntnu.no>wrote:
> 
> > There's a new question and answer site starting up
> focussing on TeX and
> > LaTeX.
> > As was fairly predictable, one of the first questions
> is about putting
> > maths
> > on the web.  Having lurked here for a while, and
> taken part in the
> > discussion
> > on Terry Tao's blog a short while ago, I thought I'd
> try my hand at
> > answering
> > this question.  However, as I'm neither blind nor
> an expert on such
> > matters,
> > there are no doubt things that I've gotten wrong.
> >
> > Since the website in question is at the moment in a
> private mode (anyone
> > can
> > read the questions and answers via
> > http://stackmobile.com/site.php?site=tex.stackexchange,
> but only the
> > original
> > people who signed up can post stuff), and I've no idea
> how accessible the
> > site
> > it, I'm copying my answer below.  I will happily
> correct any mistakes I may
> > have made, or emphasis that I've mislaid, or add
> anything that members of
> > this
> > list feel should be said.
> >
> > The markup language for this is Markdown.  I
> don't know how email readers
> > will
> > cope with that so here's a quick explanation of the
> key points.  Firstly,
> > list
> > numbering is automatic so all my list entries start
> with a 1.  Secondly,
> > emphasis and bold are done by surrounding the word or
> text in underscores
> > or
> > asterisks.  Thirdly, links are done like this:
> [link text](url).  Fourthly,
> > headers are done using hashes.
> >
> > My answer now follows:
> >
> > When embedding mathematics into a webpage, there are
> two primary questions:
> >
> > 1. What format should be used to display it?
> > 1. Where should the conversion be done?
> >
> > In my opinion, each of these has a definite answer and
> a different solution
> > should only be used if the optimal solution really
> cannot be done.
> >
> > 1. **MathML**.  Reasons:
> >   1. It is the *only* **accessible**
> way of doing this.  Putting the
> > original LaTeX in an `alt` tag on an image is not
> accessible - it relies on
> > the recipient being able to understand raw LaTeX
> source code (more on this
> > in a moment).  Also, not all of those requiring
> accessible webpages use
> > screen readers, some simply need to enlarge the page.
> >   1. It is **styleable** (not sure if
> that's a word).  Since MathML is part
> > of the XHTML suite, it can be styled in the same
> fashion as the rest of the
> > document (namely, via CSS), so the resulting display
> is far more harmonious
> > than any other (try changing the background colour to
> something easier on
> > the eyes at one of those wordpress blogs and you'll
> see what I mean).
> >   1. It is **small**.  A quick
> test on my system with 515 simple files that
> > I happened to have lying around showed that PNGs
> weighed in at 175kB whilst
> > the MathML equivalents were a shade under 60kB. 
> The PNGs were not large
> > resolution, for example the PNG containing the Zeta
> symbol was a 9x13 image.
> >
> > 1. **Server-side**.  Reasons:
> >   1. It is **small**.  Instead of
> sending both the source _and_ the
> > instructions on how to compile it, you just send the
> result.
> >   1. It is **reliable**.  You can
> easily check that what you want the
> > person to see is what they should see.  In
> particular, a javascript solution
> > relies on two things being correct: the javascript
> script _and_ the
> > implementation of javascript in the browser. 
> MathML just relies on the
> > MathML implementation in the browser.
> >   1. It is **fast**.  With
> server-side caching, you only need to process
> > the mathematics once and then it's done.
> >   1. It is **verifiable** (similar to
> reliable, I guess).  I don't fully
> > understand the differences between the _types_ of spec
> that w3c produce, but
> > MathML is certainly a recommendation.  Even
> though browser support is
> > variable, the variations are known because they can be
> measured using the
> > open standard, and thus can be taken into account.
> >
> > Server-side MathML is the optimal solution.  Of
> course, it's not always
> > possible and then other solutions are useful.
> >
> > There are various standard arguments against using
> server-side MathML and
> > other myths about mathematics in webpages that are
> worth taking a minute
> > over.
> >
> > ###Myths###
> > 1. Sending the raw LaTeX code in an alt tag makes
> images accessible.
> >
> >   When people say this, they mean that
> they can read `$a^2 + b^2 = c^2$`
> > and understand it.  Try them on something a
> little more complicated and
> > you'll soon see that this is complete rubbish. 
> For example, try having
> > someone **read out** the following to you:
> >
> `$\begin{array}\ell^0(\mathbb{R})&\;\mapsto&\;\ell^2(\mathbb{R})\\\downarrow&&\uparrow\\L^2(\mathbb{R})&\subseteq\,&L^\infty(\mathbb{R})\end{array}$`.
> >  Of course, there's going to be people who will
> say, "_I_ can understand
> > that!" but _that's not the point_.  You write a
> webpage for other people and
> > the more complicated the LaTeX, the fewer the number
> of people who can
> > instantly read it.
> >
> > 1. MathML is badly supported.
> >
> >   This is the classic
> chicken-and-egg.  MathML support is absolutely fine
> > in Firefox, in IE with the MathPlayer plugin, and in
> Amaya (what's that, I
> > hear you cry!).  Plus there are groups working on
> it for Opera and WebKit
> > who just _need a little encouragement_!  Sending
> them an email saying, "I
> > love your browser but until it has proper MathML
> support then I can't use
> > it" would provide them with a little more
> motivation.  Of course, there are
> > bugs in the implementations in Firefox and the others,
> but those are _known_
> > and so can be worked around.
> >
> > 1. MathML requires documents to be valid XHTML.
> >
> >   Actually, this isn't a myth. 
> It's absolutely true.  But surely your
> > pages were valid to begin with!  I'm a
> mathematician and my ideal document
> > is one that _cannot_ be misunderstood.  That's
> impossible, so I try for the
> > lesser goal of where any misunderstanding can be laid
> at the door of the
> > person reading it rather than me.  MathML, as
> it's an open standard, allows
> > me to reach that goal on webpages - at least
> technically, the contents are
> > more variable!
> >
> > Finally - on this part - for those that _still_ worry
> about Joe Blogs (or
> > Ola Nordmann, to be geographically correct) not being
> able to read your
> > webpage due to using an old version of IE and refusing
> to install plugins,
> > it is actually possible to have two versions of the
> mathematics on your
> > server and send MathML to those that can see it and
> PNGs to those that
> > can't, thus getting the best of both worlds.
> >
> > What about implementation?  Well, there you're in
> luck.  [iTeX](
> > http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/blog/itex2MML.html<http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/%7Edistler/blog/itex2MML.html>)
> > can do it all, and in spades.  iTeX is a fast c++
> program that converts a
> > subset of LaTeX mathematical language into
> MathML.  The original package
> > comes with bindings for ruby, and I've extended this
> to PHP, Perl, and
> > Python.  By combining it with other packages, in
> particular [svgmath](
> > http://grigoriev.ru/svgmath/) or [gtkmathview](
> > http://helm.cs.unibo.it/mml-widget/), it
> is possible to further convert
> > the MathML to an image for broken browsers. 
> (Contact me for these
> > extensions; I haven't gotten round to writing them up
> yet - it's on my TODO
> > list!)
> >
> > For examples, see the [nlab](http://ncatlab.org) (pure MathML) and the
> > [nforum](http://www.math.ntnu.no/~stacey/Vanilla/nForum<http://www.math.ntnu.no/%7Estacey/Vanilla/nForum>)
> > (MathML, SVG, or PNG depending on what browser you are
> using).
> >
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