[Blindmath] [program-java] Announcing JWin - a programfor installing the Java Access Bridge on Windows

Sat Dec 31 14:34:28 UTC 2011

The true power of Java and C# lie not in the core languages themselves, but
rather in the class libraries that can be integrated into Java and C#
programs. In fact, it was a network programming class library that caused
me to first become interested in Java in 1997. The availability of that
library made it easy for me to do things with Java that I didn't even know
how to do with C++.

My main concern with SWT is that by not having access to an integrated
JFrame object, SWT effectively precludes (or at least makes very difficult)
the use of any existing library or code that is based on the use of JFrame
objects. A number of such libraries plus hundreds of very good sample
programs exist. I'm speaking mainly of graphics libraries and programs and
not just buttons, fields, and menus. Further, the integrated graphics
capability of SWT seems to be fairly weak as compared to the Java2D API,
but that may be simply a matter of familiarity on my part.

I also find that every attempt that I have made to write multi-threaded
programs in an attempt to integrate such programs and libraries into SWT
have met with failure.

Basically, SWT is not an "add to" but rather is an "instead of" in many
respects when it comes to Java programming. Stated differently, SWT doesn't
build on existing Java capabilities but instead replaces them with other
capabilities that may or may not be better. Apparently the one area where
they are better is in the area of accessibility.

I am currently writing the lectures for a new course in Mathematics for
Game Programming that I will be teaching in the Spring. I had planned to
make heavy use of Java graphics programs that I have written over the years
to illustrate the concepts. I also decided to make the course material as
accessible as practical. That decision is making the task of developing the
new materials four or five time more difficult than it would otherwise be,
because I am having to convert every existing program into an SWT-based
program. Converting, testing, and debugging those programs is a very
time-consuming and labor-intensive task.

To use a boxing metaphor, I feel like precluding the use of existing
libraries and programs when writing new programs is somewhat like going
into the boxing ring with one hand tied behind me.

Dick Baldwin

On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com> wrote:

> Just an additional note: I have had Java access bridge and NVDA working on
> a 32-bit windows XP system, its the windows7 64-bit system which currently
> defeats me. I would say that I am quite knowledgable with Java and
> understand what the various directories in a JRE are for and where the
> files are copied to made sense to me but I just cannot get it working. May
> be the problem is on the NVDA side of things. From a user's perspective all
> that can be observed is that the access bridge isn't working on this 64-bit
> system. May be I will try something else which can use the access bridge
> (eg. a demo of JFW) then I can get a better idea what has the issue.
>
> Richard, I am not sure exactly what the issues are you have with SWT, I
> know that many people do prefer the design of swing to SWT for developing
> applications (eg. SWT needing you to explicitly call despose on widgets),
> is it those more general issues or is it a more specific accessibility one?
>
> Michael Whapples
>
> -----Original Message----- From: John Gardner
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 6:01 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] [program-java] Announcing JWin - a programfor
> installing the Java Access Bridge on Windows
>
>
> I second Michael's comments about Java.  I have tried for years to install
> and use the Java Bridge to access some Java application or other.  Or to
> use
> Window-Eyes or NVDA to access other Java applications.  I have never
> succeeded even once.  I am continually told that OpenOffice can be
> accessible, and I have tried repeatedly to access that app.  I have failed
> miserably.
>
> Admittedly it may be my own fault, because I didn't install the framus
> correctly into the Froomis location and then link to the jar application
> correctly.  I'm not the most competent computer user on earth, but then I
> know a lot more than the average user.  Perhaps there are blind people who
> can use OpenOffice, but I bet that most, like I, cannot.
>
> I intend to try Jamal's new stuff.  He can work miracles, and maybe I'll be
> using OpenOffice next week.
>
> But please don't ever assume that just because one has accessibility in
> principle that everyone will have it in practice.  No matter how easy it is
> to install and use Jamal's new technology, the vast majority of blind
> people
> are not gonna be able to do it.  But that same group can use something
> using
> SWT.  Assuming that the Java Swing or SWT application is written following
> the accessibility rules.  If not, neither is accessible.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**nfbnet.org<blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
> On
> Behalf Of Michael Whapples
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 1:24 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] [program-java] Announcing JWin - a program for
> installing the Java Access Bridge on Windows
>
> Java accessibility is a bit of a tricky thing. Plenty of the ideas of Java
> accessibility seemed good but in practice implementation can be quite poor.
> I will only focus on the accessibility stuff here, I am sure you either
> know
>
> about the other differences of SWT and Swing or you can easily find
> articles
>
> online about the differences.
>
> From the developer side the Java accessibility API is the same on all
> platforms, you can rely on it being there and when you build the Java
> application you don't need differnt builds for different JVMs (a single JAR
> does for everyone).
>
> The not so good is that as it is its own API and does not map to the native
> platform accessibility APIs the assistive technology needs to specifically
> support Java accessibility. Window-eyes does not have built in support for
> Java accessibility although it does support it through scripting from a
> third party. Also sometimes as the Java accessibility API may differ from
> the platform one, support may not be wonderful, there seems to be some
> issues with the support on the Mac with voiceover (eg. the open dialog has
> a
>
> table control for selecting the file but voiceover always sees it as empty,
> don't know if this is the same for all table controls in Java swing). Java
> accessibility support on Linux is fairly good in comparison, may be due to
> Sun Micro (as it was then) having a big hand in both Java accessibility and
> gnome accessibility, however from time to time there have been issues there
> as well.
>
> Putting the quality of the support to one side, Java accessibility is more
> complicated for the user, you need to additionally install the Java access
> bridge. Hopefully good installers will help, however it still is a pain as
> you need it installed in every JVM which will be used for Java swing,
> including ones bundled with applications. Also strictly speaking the Java
> access bridge is not the only way to access Java accessibility, other
> people
>
> can write implementations for accessing Java accessibility, I think this is
> how the window-eyes support works and so for someone who uses different
> screen readers depending on what they are doing they may need to keep
> switching the accessibility provider in accessibility.properties (eg. a
> user
>
> of window-eyes and NVDA would need to do this).
>
> Having said all that, SWT isn't perfect as I think you have found out, but
> for the user it generally is less trouble as the assistive technology needs
> to do nothing special as SWT uses native widgets and APIs. Which is better
> probably depends on what is being done and I will leave that final choice
> to
>
> you.
>
> Finally as a side note: Personally I am currently having trouble getting
> the
>
> Java access bridge working on a windows7 64-bit system with a 64-bit JVM
> with NVDA. I am using NVDA 2011.3 which is meant to support 64-bit Java and
> I have tried manually installing the Java access bridge and using the
> installer posted about here, neither seem to have worked (NOTE: The
> installer worked in the sense it placed everything where it should have, it
> didn't work in the sense that I still do not have a working java access
> bridge). In comparison I downloaded eclipse and it worked with no issues
> with the same set up.
>
> Michael Whapples
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Baldwin
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 4:30 AM
> To: program-java at freelists.org
> Cc: guispeak at freelists.org ; sec508 at trace.wisc.edu ;
> program-l at freelists.org
>
> ; blindmath at nfbnet.org ; uaccess-l at trace.wisc.edu
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] [program-java] Announcing JWin - a program for
> installing the Java Access Bridge on Windows
>
> It would definitely make me happy if this would eliminate the need to
> program using the SWT for accessibility.
>
> Besides being unfamiliar territory, using the SWT effectively eliminates
> the use of many very good existing Java libraries that have been developed
> over the past ten or so years.
>
> As near as I can tell, even though it is possible to incorporate a Java
> Frame object into an SWT GUI, there are no provisions for similarly
> incorporating a JFrame object. If that is not the case, I would like to
> hear how to incorporate a JFrame object from someone who knows how..
>
> Dick Baldwin
>
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Jamal Mazrui <empower at smart.net> wrote:
>
>  Now available at
>>
>>
>>  http://EmpowermentZone.com/****JWin_setup.exe<http://EmpowermentZone.com/**JWin_setup.exe>
> <http://**EmpowermentZone.com/JWin_ <http://EmpowermentZone.com/JWin_>
> setup.exe>
>
>>
>> or for a developer distribution
>>
>>
>>  http://EmpowermentZone.com/****JWin_setup.zip<http://EmpowermentZone.com/**JWin_setup.zip>
> <http://**EmpowermentZone.com/JWin_ <http://EmpowermentZone.com/JWin_>
> setup.zip>
>
>>
>> I hope that JWin helps to open up more Java applications on Windows by
>> making it easy to add accessibility support.  More info about the program
>> is below, including a link to the full documentation.
>>
>> Jamal
>>
>> ----------
>>
>> JWin is a free, open source program for detecting and installing the Java
>> Runtime Environment (JRE) on Windows, together with the Java Access Bridge
>> (JAB), which is needed for full accessibility of Java-based applications
>> to
>> assistive technologies used by persons with disabilities.
>>
>> After confirming user intent, the program will create a directory
>> containing JAB reference material, a log file, and an uninstallation
>> program to later remove the JAB, if desired.  It looks for locations of
>> the
>> JRE and offers to install the JAB into them.  Three possible directories
>> are identified:  (1) the directory of a 32-bit JRE; (2) the directory of a
>> 64-bit JRE; and (3) the directory referenced by the JAVA_HOME environment
>> variable.
>>
>> The program will open a log file when complete, detailing the actions
>> taken.  The JAB may be installed into any JRE location on the computer by
>> first setting the JAVA_HOME environment variable to point to the relevant
>> directory before running the executable.
>>
>> If no JRE is found by the program, it will offer to go to the web page for
>> installing Java.
>>
>> Full documentation for this program is also available online at
>>
>> http://EmpowermentZone.com/****JWin.htm<http://EmpowermentZone.com/**JWin.htm>
>> <http://**EmpowermentZone.com/JWin.htm<http://EmpowermentZone.com/JWin.htm>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>
> Professor of Computer Information Technology
> Austin Community College
> (512) 223-4758
> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
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-- 
Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
http://www.DickBaldwin.com

Professor of Computer Information Technology
Austin Community College
(512) 223-4758
mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/