[Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question

Sun Feb 20 15:36:16 UTC 2011

Jose

Thanks very much for tht offer, I will take you up on it *smiles*.
I realize, as Susan points out, the details of the text of the
petition need to be discussed, and this is not a simple problem. But I
like the interest and response on this list and hope we can get may be
40 or 50 signatures, which is enough to show screen reader vendors
there are people out there who seriously need something to be done
regarding access to mathematics.
Now that MathML is a core component of the new ePub3 standard for
eBooks and also of html5, in large parts thanks to guys like George
Kerscher, we need to do our part and make sure that if we get such
infomration in a book, that our assistive technology knows what to do
with it and lets us interact with it.
Whether we want the output as LaTeX text, speech, large print, Nemeth
refreshable Braille, UEB math, some other braille code, or a
combination, that is a matter of implementation once we have startd a
discussion.
I will look into this today or tomorrow and post details as I have
them, it's a busy weekend on the family front.
Cheers to all.
-B

On 2/20/11, Jose Tamayo <jtblas at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I can take the job of contacting the vendors to supply them with the
> information!  Goodness would I love to do that!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of qubit
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 2:28 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question
>
> Hey there Birkir, I would sign it -- let me know if you get a petition
> together...
> --le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg" <gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 12:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question
>
>
>     Hello,
> I am all for this.  I would definently support something like this.  The
> frustration I have with the hoops I have to go thru just to take a math
> class has nearly drove me to stop school.
> Greg Wocher
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Birkir Rúnar Gunnarsson" <birkir.gunnarsson at gmail.com>
> To: <SusanOsterhaus at tsbvi.edu>; "Blind Math list for those interested in
> mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 12:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question
>
>
>> What do people think about creating a web-based petition for screen
>> reader vendors to add Nemeth support for refreshable braille?
>> I know we may only get a handful of signatures but, perhaps, we could
>> get a few dozens, even a hundred. But this would create a focus point
>> for the effort and we could give a specific action item to people who
>> want to request such accessibility upgrade.
>> Instead of saying "please ask your screen reader vendor for improved
>> math support", we could say "we are collecting signatures from those
>> interested in improve math support, please go to page x and sign the
>> electronic petition if you want to help".
>> I know this worked well for the WayFinder refund demand when Vodafone
>> discontinued the product. They got almost 3000 signatures. This is an
>> entirely different beast, but the same method might work well, and
>> might help people who confuse Susan and Steve.
>> What do people think about this?
>> -Birkir
>>
>>
>> On 2/18/11, Susan Osterhaus <osterhauss at tsbvi.edu> wrote:
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>> I have heard exactly the same line from vendors: "We have never heard
>>> from
>>> any of our customers that they actually want to use Nemeth braille with
>>> our
>>> product." They have also told me that I am one of the few or only person
>>> to
>>> request math support. I wonder how they got us confused; we don't even
>>> look
>>> alike! I'm sure that many of you have heard the same quote. Every time I
>>> give a presentation, I beg each and everyone in the audience to speak out
>>> because of this, and I sure hope that there are a lot of "us" speaking
>>> up.
>>>
>>> Susan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Stephen L Noble
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:24 PM
>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS and Nemeth - Newbie question
>>>
>>> By the way, there's a crucial subtext to this issue which is often
>>> overlooked: that vendors of assistive technology need to hear as much
>>> input from customers as possible. I often have conversations with
>>> developers about something they need to support, and I am told that I am
>>> the one of the few (sometimes they say I am the only) persons who has
>>> ever said anything about the need for math support.  Case in point, I
>>> specifically asked the product manager of a widely used screen reader
>>> about supporting Nemeth in their refreshable braille display output and
>>> I was told, "We have never heard from any of our customers that they
>>> actually want to use Nemeth braille with our product." Believe it or
>>> not, that is a quote.
>>>
>>> So, the moral of this lesson is none of us should be satisfied with the
>>> response that "our product cannot do what you need." I suspect everybody
>>> on this list believes that braille support for mathematics is a vital
>>> issue, so if everybody on this list started sending emails or made phone
>>> calls to tell the company that makes the products he/she uses that
>>> supporting math (including Nemeth braille) should be considered
>>> mandatory.
>>>
>>> --Steve Noble
>>> steve.noble at louisville.edu
>>> 502-969-3088
>>>
>>>>>> "Kodeswaran, Balaji" <bkodeswaran at air.org> 2/17/2011 3:32 PM >>>
>>> Jose,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your response. However, I am unclear on how I get Nemeth
>>> to the RBD through JAWS? On our website, say we are rendering the
>>> content as MathML. I am told (by JAWS tech support) that JAWS cannot
>>> convert MathML to Nemeth. Also, since our users are primarily Firefox
>>> users, they won't have the benefit of MathPlayer (although it is not
>>> clear what this provides for IE/JAWS users in this regard). Our thoughts
>>> were to see if we could transcribe to Nemeth (Grade 1), stick into the
>>> web page in a hidden DIV next to the MathML and see if there are any
>>> ARIA (or JAWS specific markup tags) that we could put on the page to
>>> send this Nemeth to the Braille display.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/steve.noble%40lou
>>> isville.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/susanosterhaus%40
>>> tsbvi.edu
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/birkir.gunnarsson
> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwb
> lindman.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yaho
> o.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jtblas%40hotmail.
> com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/birkir.gunnarsson%40gmail.com
>