[Blindmath] re math on apple products

Sat Jan 1 17:53:04 UTC 2011

Hi Birkir,

You are right, VoiceOver with Numbers is not just there yet. But Apple's accessibility team is extremely responsive. I don't have a Mac, so from time to time I check the Macvisionary Google group to find what kind of new stuff is happening. You'll be able to find more there.
As far as Excel is concern, commercial screen readers have invested a lot to provide additional accessibility.
Even with that, I can't interact naturally with VBA created controls. Last year (2010), I was playing with spreadsheets that had check boxes and scroll bars, and I couldn't determine if I was checking or unchecking those boxes, or even what happened when I supposedly clicked on those scroll bars.

You might also like to try IBM's Lotus Symphony office package that uses iAccessible2.

One thing that I have realized which might be true for other visually impaired people as well: in learning to interact with an application by using a screen reader, I pay far more attention to different aspects of the application than others do.
I usually confirm this by returning to the support forums and going through the posts to see what kind of question people are asking about the application.   
If there are inaccessible controls or other inaccessible features, I can't truly specialize in using that application.
That is the case most of the time.

Regards
--- On Sat, 1/1/11, Birkir Rúnar Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Birkir Rúnar Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] re math on apple products
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 1:16 AM
> Hey guys
> 
> I only got one chance at exploring a spreadh sheet
> application on a
> Mac, the numbers app for iWorks, and i found it highly
> frustrating.
> I could not read whether content was a formula or not, I
> could not
> list cells with data in them, moving around the spradsheet
> was a major
> hassle, I could not read cell comments, I could not see if
> a spread
> sheet had graphs or other objects (important when I have
> written
> scripts and have buttons that can run them).
> How is Excel for the Mac in terms of accessibility, is it
> much better
> and can you do these things there?
> I was not overly impressed with Voiceover on OSX, the fact
> it's there
> and it's very workable is awesome, but I feel it still has
> a way to go
> to reach Windows quality in some areas (understandably, I
> am not
> saying it won't happen, but it has not yet).
> Their work with the iPhone is fantastic and by far the most
> accessible
> phone out there, I bought one and I like it a lot, minor
> inconveniences and annoyances with phone calls and the
> proximity
> sensor issue but upgrading IOS to 4.2 helps a lot in that
> area).
> But, bottomline, I could not do some more advanced spread
> sheet work
> with VoiceOver and I am wondering if I just lack
> experience, if
> Numbers was not a good application to try, or if Apple
> still has ways
> to go to make this app accessible.
> Yes, an article was written in Accessworld that basically
> states WP7
> is not accessible and will not be and Microsoft just said
> "oops,
> sorry", so no respect to them in that area.
> There is also precious little happening in accessibility
> for Android
> and Chrome, at lesat from Google, though I remain hopeful
> that we'll
> see something from them in 2011.
> Apple is clearly the leader and innovator, along with NVDA,
> so I hope
> we'll see these guys do even better in the coming year.
> Cheers
> =B
> 
> On 12/31/10, Vincent Martin <vmartin at mindspring.com>
> wrote:
> > Roopakshi:
> > You are so correct when math and science are concerned
> in the business
> > arena.  I have had a little more success in
> certain situations with my MAC.
> > I am still annoyed that I have to go between Linux,
> MAC, and Windows in an
> > attempt to keep up with everyone and then many things
> are still not
> > accessible.  Fortunately, my supervisor at work
> does have a MAC and A
> > windows machine and only turns his Windows machine on
> just to check his
> > Veterans Administration specific e-mail.
> >
> > The sonnification lab at Georgia Tech where I do my
> school research is
> > primarily a MAC lab as well.  I absolutely love
> being able to just move
> > around the lab at will and make any computer talk with
> a combination
> > keystroke.  I still wish Apple would just lower
> the cost of every MAC by
> > about 200 dollars and watch their sales skyrocket and
> watch Microsoft
> > squirm.
> >
> >
> > With the Windows 7 mobile phone platform not being
> accessible and will never
> > be, it is quite obvious where we stand with
> Microsoft.  It seems as if MS
> > Windows is reasonable accessible and their other item
> of inters is making
> > sure that you can use the features in Office that
> everyone else uses.  Other
> > than that, we are in deep trouble.
> >
> > I know I get truly sick and tired of writing scripts
> for a new program and I
> > still need sighted assistance to write the
> scripts.  Using three different
> > screen reading programs in Windows, using my MAC, and
> also Linux from the
> > command line and with the Gnome desktop, I keep such a
> plethora of
> > information in my head that it usually makes my
> colleagues head spin when I
> > "change" to a new platform or different operating
> system.
> >
> > With all of that being said, I still love my MAC and
> the other Apple
> > products I own such as my Nano and Iphone.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
> > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 1:00 PM
> > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 53, Issue 16
> >
> > Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
> >     blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Accessibility of Math Applications on
> iOS Devices and    Related
> >       Observations (Roopakshi
> Pathania)
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:07:35 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Roopakshi Pathania <r_akshi_tgk at yahoo.com>
> > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: [Blindmath] Accessibility of Math
> Applications on iOS Devices
> >     and    Related
> Observations
> > Message-ID: <615352.33708.qm at web38702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So these days I?m busy playing with my new toy: a
> shiny squeaky new iPod
> > Touch and a plethora of accessible apps that can be
> downloaded.
> > Naturally, after a few days, my interest shifted to
> the discovery of
> > accessible science and Math based apps.
> > I downloaded a few, but they weren?t accessible enough
> to satisfy me. I have
> > recently found my first fully accessible Math app for
> iOS devices.
> > It?s called Equation Genius. The app solves equations
> for you: it can solve
> > quadratic and cubic equations as well as system of
> linear equations up to 3
> > unknowns. The fields are labeled with the coefficients
> you need to input.
> > Once you start editing, the labels disappear, or at
> least they are not
> > announced.
> > It is free for now.
> > http://itunes.apple.com/in/app/equation-genius-math-equation/id372919594?mt=
> > 8#
> >
> > Besides this, the default calculator on iOS devices is
> completely
> > accessible. If you turn your iPhone or iPod into the
> landscape mode, the
> > regular calculator becomes a scientific calculator.
> >
> > Coming to some of my gloomy reflections, experimenting
> with the iOS
> > ecosystem has strengthened my belief that the future
> of accessibility of
> > productive applications on Windows in particular looks
> quite bleak from
> > where I stand.
> > The reason why I?m referring to Windows is because
> this is presently the
> > main platform used in corporate environments around
> the world.
> > The ultimate purpose of studying science or math based
> subjects, according
> > to me at least, is to work in the same field in
> future. Unless you plan to
> > teach, in which case, you can skip the rest of my
> diatribe.
> > All technical fields today depend on specialized
> software to perform
> > particular tasks.
> > For a number of reasons, many of the software
> applications available have
> > little to no built-in accessibility.
> > Software for data analysis, computer simulation and
> modeling, business
> > intelligence tools, cloud-based office applications,
> financial accounting,
> > report designers and generators, trading platforms,
> mind mapping, some of
> > the developing environments and many other categories-
> are not usable right
> > out of the box.
> >  Of course, there are accessible software
> applications as well, but those
> > are just a handful.
> > Not to mention that companies quite frequently use
> in-house software which
> > is rarely accessible.
> > There is life beyond Microsoft Office.
> > And even if we consider only MS applications,
> accessibility issues crop up
> > especially while trying to use advance features. I can
> attest to that fact
> > since I use Excel regularly.
> >
> > Have a happy new year
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> >
> >
> > End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 53, Issue 16
> > *****************************************
> >
> >
> >
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> 
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