[Blindmath] Math Textbook Accesibility Questions: HELP!

Wed Jun 29 17:39:48 UTC 2011

With enough effort, I could probably write a program that would clean up the
text and discard the images in a pdf file. However, I see the equations as
the bigger problem, particularly those equations that involve fractions or
fractions within fractions. Just a couple of days ago, we encountered an
equation that had a large complex fraction with another complex fraction in
the denominator of the first fraction. They sometimes consume two or three
lines and I don't know how they are formatted. I do know that when you
simply copy them to the clipboard and paste them into a text file, you get
garbage.

That would certainly be a worthwhile project. I imagine that the general pdf
format is available somewhere on the web. If someone can provide
specifications as to how the equations are formatted, I might take it on as
a project.

Dick Baldwin

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 12:14 PM, John Gardner <john.gardner at orst.edu>wrote:

> Dick and Andrew, you two computer-literate sighted people can probably find
> a solution to this problem.  What is needed is a way to edit those PDF
> files
> to put them into single column form and get rid of the images.  If you can
> do that Infty
> Reader should do a great job, especially if it is used with
> FineReader to back up translation of the text portions.  Some older
> versions
> of Infty Reader allowed FineReader, and the new versions should soon come
> with FineReader as an extra-cost option.  But getting things into single
> columns and getting rid of the crappy graphics is necessary to get high
> quality output.
>
> If there is no way to edit the PDF directly (This is something I just don't
> know about), then you can use something like Able2Extract to convert the
> PDF
> to MS Word and then edit in Word.  Then save as PDF and go.  You want to
> use
> a converter that does not go through a conversion step to bit map, because
> the character information in good PDF's assures high quality translation
> from PDF to Latex or whatever else.
>
> If you can find a really good wway to do this, I invite you to write a
> tutorial for Access2Science.com.  And become famous in this community.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 9:51 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math Textbook Accesibility Questions: HELP!
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> I am facing a similar situation with one of my programming students who is
> taking a physics course. The PDF and Word versions of the physics book are
> inaccessible with regard to everything other than the raw text. Sometimes
> the Word version, which was apparently created from the PDF version, is
> scrambled due to the fancy multi-column layout of the PDF version.
>
> Physics books contain thousands of equations, vector diagrams, photos, etc.
>
> We haven't found a good solution. She can read the text in the Word version
> (when it isn't scrambled). She knows how to program, so she has hired some
> students to go through and transcribe the equations into single-line
> programming format, which she can read on her USB Braille display. That
> works for most equations in an intro pre-calculus physics course but the
> manual transcription process isn't very reliable. I spend time with her
> describing the pictures, etc. Sometimes I sketch out a diagram by drawing
> on
> paper on top of window screen, which is a very crude method of embossing.
> Also sometimes I print the diagrams and emboss them using a serrated
> tracing
> wheel.
>
> Every day we encounter new problems and are forced to find new solutions.
>
> I will be very interested in hearing about the solutions that you come up
> with, even they involve chewing gum and bailing wire.
>
> Learn more at "Accessible Physics Concepts for Blind Students" at
> http://cnx.org/content/col11294/latest/
>
> Dick Baldwin
>
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Stephen L Noble <
> steve.noble at louisville.edu
> > wrote:
>
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > If you are working with typical textbook content, using InftyReader
> > will not be a very smooth process. It works great for black text on
> > white background with no images, borders, marginal text, inset text,
> > etc., but probably much less than 1% of textbooks are made like that.
> > Schools generally won't buy textbooks with only words and math on the
> > page, and the more "fancy looking" the page layout gets, the poorer the
> > results you will get with Infty.
> >
> > For all the math textbook conversion that I do, I scan the text with
> > Abbyy FineReader and pull it into Word, I then rekey all the math with
> > MathType. It is a very time consuming process, but it works. Once you
> > have all the math in place, if you want LaTeX, then all you have to do
> > is use MathType's "Toggle TeX" command and all of the equations will
> > instantly be converted without you having to know LaTeX.
> >
> > If you want to use a screen reader and hear the math read (rather than
> > the raw LaTeX code), you can use the same Word+MathType doc and run
> > MathType's "MathPage" command. Select the XHTML+MathML export option and
> > then you can use JAWS, WindowEyes, or a number of other math-savvy
> > screen readers to hear both the text and the math read. Just be sure
> > that the student is using Internet Explorer and has the MathPlayer
> > add-on installed.
> >
> > If you have a student who prefers hard-copy braille with math braille
> > code such as Nemeth, it is also possible to take the same Word+MathType
> > doc and emboss the braille suing either Duxbury Braille Translator or
> > the Tiger Software Suite.
> >
> > MathType: http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/
> > MathPlayer: http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathplayer/
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > --Steve Noble
> >
> > >>> Andrew Cioffi <acioffi at suffolk.edu> 6/28/2011 5:44 PM >>>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I am new to the field of making materials accessible for blind or low
> > vision students.
> >
> > My current challenge: students has requested that his math text be made
> > available in LaTeX code.  The publisher has provided that full text in
> > PDF files by chapter.  I have tried numerous things, and am not getting
> > any clear results.
> >
> > I would like to preface this all by the fact that I have very limited
> > background of LaTeX, and cannot use it author any source code
> >
> > I have downloaded the free trial version of ifntyreader, and have used
> > it with mixed results.  For any of the chapters provided by the
> > publisher, ifnty won't recognize them until I open them and save them as
> > a copy.  Each chapter is about 150 pages, so it takes quite a while for
> > ifnty to trudge through (roughly one hour per chapter).  The output
> > LOOKS like LaTeX, but sometimes the ifntyreader only outputs a TIFF of
> > each page.  Other times, it provides some jumbled LaTeX output.
> >
> > I have figured out that the problem with the output is that information
> > exists in multiple columns in the publisher provided PDFs and it appears
> > that the output is created linearly (forgive me if I am using incorrect
> > terminology here), hence the jumbled LaTeX.  Is there a way to get
> > around this?  Is there a program that can be used to modify the layout
> > of the PDF to make it all exist in one column?
> >
> > My ifnty demo runs out in about 12 days, so I am trying to figure some
> > of these issues out before deciding on whether to buy the program or
> > not.
> >
> > I also tried printing pages and scanning them in, and THEN running them
> > through inftyreader.  This produced the same jumbled output, now with
> > lots of typos to be corrected.  Not sure that this is the route to go.
> >
> > How have folks dealt with scanning text book pages into ifnty that
> > happen to have some complex layouts???
> >
> > The student is ultimately looking to receive his materials for this
> > course in a format that can accurately be read by a screen reader.  Any
> > thoughts on what is the most effective and reliable way to convert these
> > publisher provided PDFs?
> >
> > Did I mention that he is an engineering major that will be starting in
> > September???
> >
> > There is MUCH helpful information in the Blindmath archives, and I am
> > thankful for any help that you all may be able to provide.
> >
> > Andrew Cioffi
> > Assistant Director
> > Office Location: 73 Tremont Street, 7th Floor
> > Mailing Address: 8 Ashburton Place, Boston, MA 02108
> > Phone: (617) 994-6820
> > Email: acioffi at suffolk.edu<mailto:kbehling at suffolk.edu>
> > [Email signature]
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
> >
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbal
> dwin.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>
> Professor of Computer Information Technology
> Austin Community College
> (512) 223-4758
> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/john.gardner%40or
> st.edu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com
>

-- 
Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
http://www.DickBaldwin.com

Professor of Computer Information Technology
Austin Community College
(512) 223-4758
mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/