[Blindmath] Audio scopes/light probes and other things may beuseful to science people

Fri Nov 4 15:51:35 UTC 2011

I'll take this opportunity to point out that we would love examples of inaccessible websites like this at www.AccessGrade.com

The more examples we receive, the better the system gets.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Humphreys
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 11:47 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Audio scopes/light probes and other things may beuseful to science people

Larry,

I was pretty excited to learn about this site 
until I tried to learn anything from it, as the 
"Product Catalog" is in a graphics-only PDF 
format.  Ironic for a site which is of interest to visually impaired folks.

I sent the following e-mail to their contact 
address in hopes of remedying this situation:

Hello,

I was pleased to see your website mentioned on 
the Blind Math mailing list as it related to 
tools for blind and visually impaired students to 
acquire scientific instruments.

Unfortunately, details on these products could 
not be more inaccessible to blind folks, at least as far as I can determine.

First, your product catalog is in PDF format, not 
HTML, WHICH IS BARRIER ENOUGH TO QUICK AND EFFECTIVE NAVIGATION.

Worse yet though, the PDF is composed entirely of 
"Graphic 22 through Graphic 27", whatever those are.

I tried OCR-ing the PDF with JAWS in hopes of 
extracting some useful information but that was not effective.

I may yet try the more capable Freedom Import 
Printer from Openbook to extract useful information from the PDF catalog.

However, such heroic efforts should not be 
necessary, especially since a blind user is not 
an anomoly on a site such as yours.

Won't you consider listing your products in a standard HTML format?

Thank you,

Ben Humphreys

At 10:04 AM 11/4/2011, you wrote:
>You all may want to check out Indipendant 
>Science.  I have not tried any of their 
>products, but they have a lot of science 
>insterments listed in their catalog.  Below is the url.
>
>http://independencescience.com/ they say are Indipendantscience.com
>
>
>
>Larry Wayland
>State Rehabilitation Technologist
>Division of Services for the Blind
>700 Main Street
>Little Rock, AR 72201
>Phone 501-603-3504
>800-960-9270
>larry.wayland at arkansas.gov
>
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>[mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 1:11 PM
>To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Audio scopes/light 
>probes and other things may beuseful to science people
>
>Go get 'em girl!
>I took chemistry and physics. It can be done, 
>advocate for yourself if you are so inclined.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>[mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda Lacy
>Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 10:11 PM
>To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Audio scopes/light 
>probes and other things may beuseful to science people
>
>Thanks. I might have to look into getting one, especially when we start
>studying light.
>
>I'm amazed that they let you take chemistry and physics. Someone at OSD
>basically told me that at my college the professors did not want blind
>students in their chemistry labs. Maybe I'll have to fix that before I
>graduate.
>
>Amanda
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
>To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
><blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 8:02 PM
>Subject: [Blindmath] Audio scopes/light probes and other things may beuseful
>to science people
>
>
>Hello,
>The ones I used at school were hand held units, may be could be put in a
>large pocket. However I have no clue what make they were or where to buy
>those particular ones (they may have even been something put together by a
>member of staff as the electronics for such a device is fairly simple). I
>think I have heard of a key ring sized device which could be bought but I
>have no details on that.
>
>However here is one option I have found, unfortunately much more expensive
>than a simple light only sensor as it also has a colour detector as well
>(that might be useful as we used those as well in chemistry at school, but
>those at school were not great as almost anything could come out as olive
>green if it was uncertain, but this one looks a bit more advanced). Also
>saying this looks expensive at about £150, well that is cheap compared to
>the thing I have bolted to the air rifle (£600 when I bought it), but may be
>it needs good optics to be millimetre accurate or better at 10m instead of
>table top distances. Anyway, hear is a link to the RNIB shop page about this
>colour/light sensor
>http://www.rnib.org.uk/shop/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?category=labelling_colour_detectors&productID=DH28801.
>
>OK, a bit more of a search on RNIB found the keyring light only detector
>http://www.rnib.org.uk/shop/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=DH24801.
>Much closer to what I would expect, about £13 with VAT.
>
>I will finish by saying, I don't have any personal experience with those
>particular models I have linked to on the RNIB website. Also I don't know
>whether these can be got in the US or if not then how much RNIB would charge
>for posting it to the US.
>
>Michael wahpples
>On 29 Oct 2011, at 00:45, Amanda Lacy wrote:
>
> > That sounds fun. I've never heard of it before. Were these smaller devices
> > key chain sized, and were they on some sort of website for adaptive lab
> > tools? I am in physics now and have no access to any special lab
> > equipment, nor do I know of anyone who has. I'm mostly unaware of what's
> > available.
> >
> > Amanda
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
> > To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 6:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Announcing SVGExplore01 from the creator
> > ofSVGDraw01
> >
> >
> > Its probably not really the technical term, however it essentially is a
> > device I have bolted to the top of an air rifle, which detects the amount
> > of light, producing a higher tone for more light. By using an illuminated
> > target which is white in the middle, going through circles of grey, to
> > black at the outside I am able to successfully do air rifle shooting by
> > listening for the highest tone.
> >
> > I know that when I was at school we had similar devices, which were more
> > sensitive to lower levels of light but probably less accurate in the
> > directional sensing of light so probably only suitable for close work (and
> > by the way were much cheaper than my rifle one from what I know) which we
> > used for all sorts of things (eg. being able to tell when liquids in a
> > chemistry experiment went darker or cloudy or in physics to be able to
> > explore the defraction patterns of lasers shone through slits).
> >
> > Michael whapples
> > On 29 Oct 2011, at 00:15, Amanda Lacy wrote:
> >
> >> Michael, What is an audio scope?
> >>
> >> Amanda
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
> >> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> >> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 6:07 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Announcing SVGExplore01 from the creator
> >> ofSVGDraw01
> >>
> >>
> >> This sounds interesting, I will have to try it out. Also I have a few
> >> comments which I have put in your message below, some of them said a
> >> little tongue in cheek although they may have a bit of a serious point
> >> behind them.
> >>
> >> Please also keep in mind this is comments from your description.
> >>
> >> Michael Whapples
> >> On 28 Oct 2011, at 18:45, Richard Baldwin wrote:
> >>> [...]
> >>>
> >>> My hope is that this will provide an economical "quick look" alternative
> >>> to
> >>> the use of fully embossed drawings for the purpose of allowing the user
> >>> to
> >>> form a mental image of the shapes in the drawing.
> >>> I also hope this will be true. Sometimes you know what you have done to
> >>> a diagram, you want to check it is about right but may not want to
> >>> emboss it at that point as you may still have a bit more editing to do
> >>> before it is "final". It will be a good way to get a general overview.
> >> [...]
> >>> This is a mouse version of the program
> >>>
> >>> A fully operational touchpad version of the program is still in
> >>> development.
> >>> I am providing a mouse version at this time to allow potential users of
> >>> the
> >>> program to get a taste of how it works. I am hopeful that those users
> >>> will
> >>> try it out and provide feedback and suggestions for improvement.
> >>> I am glad that you recognise some of the limitations of the mouse for
> >>> this, good to see a touchpad being considered for the final one.
> >>>
> >>> [...]
> >>> Grasp the mouse in your right hand with your thumb touching the
> >>> upper-left
> >>> corner of the grid. Try to hold the mouse so that the front-to-back axis
> >>> of
> >>> the mouse is parallel to the left edge of the grid.
> >>> You right handed bigot, what about us left handed people :-(. May be a
> >>> top right corner calibration option would be good as well. OK, don't
> >>> know if that is needed, could it all work fine with a left hand on the
> >>> mouse and so calibration being to the right side of the mouse?
> >>
> >> Also any tips on how to ensure alignment of the mouse axis? I could
> >> imagine some of the weird and wacky ergonomic mouse designs with curves
> >> and such all over may make the task harder.
> >>
> >>> Press the 'h' key with your left hand. That will position the mouse
> >>> pointer
> >>> in the upper-left corner of the drawing. Any time you feel lost you can
> >>> repeat that procedure to reposition the mouse pointer in the upper-left
> >>> corner to get your bearings again.
> >>> Does this do anything with the mouse pointer on screen? I ask this as
> >>> could potentially one corner oneself in the bottom right corner of the
> >>> diagram? Mainly I am thinking of either the first time one calibrates if
> >>> the mouse got to the bottom right corner of the screen or if having
> >>> lifted the mouse the pointer finds itself in the bottom right corner. It
> >>> may be a good idea to suggest swipe the mouse up and left a few times if
> >>> cornering yourself is an issue.
> >>> If you move the mouse to the right while dragging your thumb along the
> >>> top
> >>> edge of the grid (or along any horizontal grid line), you will
> >>> (sometimes)
> >>> hear a deep rumble in both ears similar to a motorcycle idling. Whenever
> >>> you
> >>> hear that sound, it means that there is a shape somewhere along a
> >>> vertical
> >>> line that is parallel to the left edge of the grid and below (or above)
> >>> the
> >>> mouse pointer. Note that you will only hear sounds when the mouse
> >>> pointer is
> >>> moving.
> >>> When you say dragging, do you mean just moving or do you mean dragging
> >>> as in holding left mouse button down at the same time? Interesting you
> >>> decided to only have it make a noise when moving, any reason? I hadn't
> >>> really thought about that until I saw this but I probably would have
> >>> naturally had it go regardless of whether the mouse is moving.
> >>> [...]
> >>>
> >>> There are three pitches associated with each shape. In addition, the
> >>> three
> >>> pitches associated with one shape are readily distinguishable from the
> >>> three
> >>> pitches associated with each of the other shapes.
> >>>
> >>> When you have placed the mouse pointer squarely on the center line of
> >>> the
> >>> boundary of a shape, you will hear a series of pulses at a pitch that I
> >>> will
> >>> refer to as the center pitch. When the mouse pointer is slightly below
> >>> the
> >>> center line, you will hear a slightly higher pitch. This means that you
> >>> should slowly move the mouse toward the top of the grid to place the
> >>> mouse
> >>> pointer on the center line. When the mouse pointer is slightly above the
> >>> center line, you will hear a pitch that is slightly below the center
> >>> pitch.
> >>> This means that you should slowly move the mouse toward the bottom of
> >>> the
> >>> grid to put the pointer on the center line.
> >>>
> >>> You will also hear the pulses in your left ear, your right ear, and
> >>> evenly
> >>> in both ears. When the mouse pointer is positioned squarely on the
> >>> center
> >>> line, you should hear the pulses with equal intensity at the center
> >>> pitch in
> >>> both ears. If you hear the sound in your left ear only, you need to move
> >>> the
> >>> mouse slowly to the left in order to place the mouse pointer on the
> >>> center
> >>> line. Similarly, if you hear the pulses in your right ear only, you need
> >>> to
> >>> move the mouse slowly to the right to acquire the center line.
> >>> A question, not really sure if there is a wrong or right answer. Why did
> >>> you choose to go with direction to find the target? The alternative is
> >>> say where the person is pointing relative to the target (eg. if I am
> >>> pointing to the left then I get a signal saying/indicating left). May be
> >>> I am particularly aware of the two systems as with my shooting the audio
> >>> scope I use only gives me useful tones when it is pointing at the target
> >>> diagram, so if I am not pointing at the target the assistant tells me
> >>> the direction, but I noticed some were saying which way I needed to move
> >>> when others were saying which way off the target I was pointing, a bit
> >>> confusing until I realised what was going on.
> >>> [...]
> >>> In order to help you maintain your orientation, all shapes are forced to
> >>> be
> >>> closed, even if they weren't originally closed when the drawing was
> >>> created
> >>> in SVGDraw01. By this I mean, for example, that if you plot a series of
> >>> points using the Polyline action in SVGDraw01, a line will be drawn that
> >>> automatically connects the last point back to the first point in this
> >>> program. That will help you to identify the ends of a curve and avoid
> >>> falling off the end of a curve only to search in vain for the rest of
> >>> the
> >>> curve.
> >>>
> >>> On the other hand, this is not completely without its problems. The
> >>> return
> >>> stroke can sometimes cross the curve and create a crossroads where there
> >>> is
> >>> no difference in the pitch of each of the four directions of travel at
> >>> the
> >>> intersection. (Think of the center of a figure 8.) I'm still thinking
> >>> about
> >>> how to solve this problem and suggestions are welcome.
> >>> Would it be possible to give the closing line a different sound? An
> >>> example might be use a different wave form for the tone, so actual shape
> >>> sides are sine waves, the closing but non-existent side is a triangular
> >>> wave. Another alternative might be to give a sound indicating end of
> >>> line (eg. a pulse of white noise) or a click.
> >> [...]
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> >
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