[Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices

Tue Nov 15 13:30:05 UTC 2011

I like the xhtml table format, and the plain text ones as well (though
I'd use vertical bar | instead of a semi colon ";" though that's just
a personal preference.
I did most of my matrices work in Excel and in a program called Gauss
(not sure if it's still around).
NVDA 2011.3 RC1 support MathPlayer (at least to some degree), I got
that official announcement yesterday, thought people might be
interested.
Whether the reading of MathML matrices will be improved with
MathPlayer 3 RC1 remains to be seen.
MP RC1 has been imminent since some time in the spring, so hopefully
we'll see it next week, rather than next year.
As discussed previously that won't fix the issue of no meaningful
braill support though.
I am hoping that once supported by NVDA, there is a way to hook
LibLouis refreshable support to MathPlayer in some meaningful way.
It's very gratifying to see a professor take so much interest in math
accessibility.
Yes, it should be the default expectation that things are accessible,
but it isn't. ;)
Kep up the good work.
-B

On 11/15/11, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>
> I know everyone on here will cringe but in truth this is how I would want it
> but again I like using just a text editor and this way seems to work great
> with jaws for me. This is just a simple page with a 3 by 3 matrix.  It has
> the bars because <pre> elements don't get converted.
>
> <html>
> <body>
>  <H1>A Matrix</h1>
>  <pre>
>  3 | 9 | 8
>  4 | 6 | 5
>  6 | 4 | 8
>       </pre>
> </body>
> </html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:03 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>
> Thanks Ken,
>
> So far, that seems to be the most accessible option. I suppose I could style
> the matrices as <pre>xx</pre> and put them in XHTML tables. That should make
> them accessible to a screen reader and also make them look reasonable for
> the sighted students in the course. Maybe there is a unicode character that
> could be used to create the vertical bars that typically appear on printed
> matrices. If so, I wonder how a screen reader would treat those characters.
>
> Other suggestions are welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Dick Baldwin
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Ken Perry <kperry at blinksoft.com> wrote:
>
>> When I did my matrix class back in the early 90's I used a text editor
>> and an old laptop calculator called Xplore.  The calculator still
>> exists but the newest version is not that accessible. I would just
>> type the matrix out in a text editor and space the columns.  That way
>> when I  wanted two add two rows I would block one row and put it under
>> the other and move things around.  I know that is not pretty but it
>> gave me a good feel of how the sighted folks did it.  I got to the
>> point where I could do up to 2 4 by 4 matrixes in my head only writing
>> down values as I multiplied them or if I was trying to solve them.  It
>> would take a bit of work to get back to that point now but all I am
>> saying is don't give up on the simple text editor  it sometimes is
>> nice to be able to easily see all the numbers in a row at a time.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:53 AM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>
>> Hi Pranav,
>>
>> Thanks for the input. I understand how a spreadsheet can be used for
>> doing matrix computations. The main thing that I am looking for is the
>> most accessible display format. For example, MathML can be used to
>> create beautiful matrix equations in an HTML page. Beautiful, that is,
>> for sighted students. However, NVDA becomes silent when it encounters
>> MathML in a web page. I don't have a copy of Jaws, so I don't know how
>> it reacts to MathML in a web page.
>>
>> Most normal equations can be handled in an accessible manner by
>> writing them on a single line using programming format. Matrix
>> equations, on the other hand typically require three or four lines. I
>> wondering how to configure those three or four lines in such a way
>> that a blind student can make sense of them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dick Baldwin
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Richard,
>> >
>> > I have worked a bit with matrices. At the time I did, a spreadsheet
>> > was the solution I chose. I could add rows and columns without a
>> > fuss and they were accessible. Excel is the tool to go for in
>> > windows. No special tool is required.
>> >
>> > On 11/15/11, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com> wrote:
>> > > I will be teaching the following course for the first time in the
>> > > Spring
>> > > 2012 semester.
>> > >
>> > > GAME 2302 - Mathematical Applications for Game Development (3-3-1)
>> > > Presents applications of mathematics and science in game and
>> > > simulation programming. Includes the utilization of matrix and
>> > > vector operations, kinematics, and Newtonian principles in games
>> > > and simulations. Also
>> > covers
>> > > code optimization.
>> > >
>> > > The course must be accessible for blind and VI students. Even if
>> > > there
>> > are
>> > > accessible textbooks at the college level covering these topics
>> > > (which I
>> > > doubt) it is far too late to adopt a new textbook for the course.
>> > >
>> > > I really need suggestions from those who teach mathematics and
>> > > blind students who study mathematics regarding the most accessible
>> > > formats for presenting matrix equations.
>> > >
>> > > If special reader software is required (beyond a standard screen
>> > reader), I
>> > > need to know that also.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks in advance.
>> > > Dick Baldwin
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> > > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> > > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>> > >
>> > > Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>> > > College
>> > > (512) 223-4758
>> > > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> > > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > ail.com
>> > >
>> >
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
>> (512) 223-4758
>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>
>
>
> --
> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>
> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
> (512) 223-4758
> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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