[Blindmath] Audio scopes/light probes and other things may beuseful to science people

Mon Oct 31 15:20:18 UTC 2011

and teachers like that are worth their weight and more in gold.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda Lacy
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 3:46 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Audio scopes/light probes and other things may beuseful to science people

Tami,

Thanks for reminding me it's not just me fighting, and that if I'm not
successful at completing a course the first time it's not because I just
didn't try hard enough. This semester I had to postpone both a physics
course and a precalculus course. I did not make these decisions lightly and
will use this time to study and get materials in advance. Fortunately I have
a physics professor who is looking forward to seeing me back in his class in
the spring and at least one math professor on my side. They know I've got
the brains to do it and am not making excuses.

Amanda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Audio scopes/light probes and other things may
beuseful to science people

Thank you so much for that and for the work you do for your students.
The more professionals in your field who simply accept that blind
students can study math and go on to more opportunities on that basis,
the more those students can carry the torch of teaching other sighted
professionals and educators that blind people can do math because they
are doing  it. And who knows? It might be one of your students who uses
that educational experience to help bring forth the next generation of
accessibility tools for those who follow? I see this beginning to
happen, here and there, and it just makes me giddy. /grin/

As for the greater barriers so many face still just to get into a math
class... Knowing that it continues for so many in so many places saddens
and angers me, too. I know that some of these bright young students will
fight and some of them will prevail against the layers of barriers
placed in front of them. Others will turn their brains and energies to
other fields where they will shine and show other things blind people
can too do. /smile/ They should not, in this day and age, have to fight
so hard during the years their peers are simply going to school and
taking classes without having to fight for them... Sigh.

Tami

On 10/29/2011 09:46 AM, Bente Casile wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am saddened when I read about VI/blind students being discouraged from
> taking math or science.  I would encourage you to not give up.  I work
> with
> our blind students at the community college level in mathematics and
> subscribe to this because it a great resource to me as an educator.  I
> want
> to post this to say two things:
> 1. As a sighted person, it wasn't until I had a blind girl living in my
> home
> that I truly realized how capable blind people are and how narrow my
> vision
> was.  I find it ironic that a blind person helped me to see that my
> perceptions of what I thought I would be able to do if I were blind,
> totally
> blinded me from seeing how wrong I was about others.
> 2.  Don't let frustrations of having to fight for things wear you down to
> the point where you accept other people's opinions of you.
>
> Bente
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Michael Whapples
> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:31 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Audio scopes/light probes and other things may
> beuseful to science people
>
> May be it wasn't a surprise that I was allowed at school as it was a
> school for the visually impaired and part of the reason for choosing it
> was that it would give me the best chance to study what I wanted and to
> get the support for it.
>
> As for when I moved to university to do physics, I think some of the
> tutors did admit that after a little time may be they had been a bit
> over cautious at the beginning on deciding which experiments I could do.
> Here is an article written by one of my tutors about the experience of
> teaching visually impaired students in a lab
> http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/pesl/resources/disability/teaching102/, it
> might be useful to you if you encounter some professors who are a bit
> cautious.
>
> Michael Whapples
> On 29/10/11 03:10, Amanda Lacy wrote:
>> Thanks. I might have to look into getting one, especially when we
>> start studying light.
>>
>> I'm amazed that they let you take chemistry and physics. Someone at
>> OSD basically told me that at my college the professors did not want
>> blind students in their chemistry labs. Maybe I'll have to fix that
>> before I graduate.
>>
>> Amanda
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Whapples"<mwhapples at aim.com>
>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 8:02 PM
>> Subject: [Blindmath] Audio scopes/light probes and other things may
>> beuseful to science people
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>> The ones I used at school were hand held units, may be could be put in
>> a large pocket. However I have no clue what make they were or where to
>> buy those particular ones (they may have even been something put
>> together by a member of staff as the electronics for such a device is
>> fairly simple). I think I have heard of a key ring sized device which
>> could be bought but I have no details on that.
>>
>> However here is one option I have found, unfortunately much more
>> expensive than a simple light only sensor as it also has a colour
>> detector as well (that might be useful as we used those as well in
>> chemistry at school, but those at school were not great as almost
>> anything could come out as olive green if it was uncertain, but this
>> one looks a bit more advanced). Also saying this looks expensive at
>> about £150, well that is cheap compared to the thing I have bolted to
>> the air rifle (£600 when I bought it), but may be it needs good optics
>> to be millimetre accurate or better at 10m instead of table top
>> distances. Anyway, hear is a link to the RNIB shop page about this
>> colour/light sensor
>>
> http://www.rnib.org.uk/shop/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?category=labelling_col
> our_detectors&productID=DH28801.
>>
>> OK, a bit more of a search on RNIB found the keyring light only
>> detector
>> http://www.rnib.org.uk/shop/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=DH24801.
>> Much closer to what I would expect, about £13 with VAT.
>>
>> I will finish by saying, I don't have any personal experience with
>> those particular models I have linked to on the RNIB website. Also I
>> don't know whether these can be got in the US or if not then how much
>> RNIB would charge for posting it to the US.
>>
>> Michael wahpples
>> On 29 Oct 2011, at 00:45, Amanda Lacy wrote:
>>
>>> That sounds fun. I've never heard of it before. Were these smaller
>>> devices key chain sized, and were they on some sort of website for
>>> adaptive lab tools? I am in physics now and have no access to any
>>> special lab equipment, nor do I know of anyone who has. I'm mostly
>>> unaware of what's available.
>>>
>>> Amanda
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Whapples"
>>> <mwhapples at aim.com>
>>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 6:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Announcing SVGExplore01 from the creator
>>> ofSVGDraw01
>>>
>>>
>>> Its probably not really the technical term, however it essentially is
>>> a device I have bolted to the top of an air rifle, which detects the
>>> amount of light, producing a higher tone for more light. By using an
>>> illuminated target which is white in the middle, going through
>>> circles of grey, to black at the outside I am able to successfully do
>>> air rifle shooting by listening for the highest tone.
>>>
>>> I know that when I was at school we had similar devices, which were
>>> more sensitive to lower levels of light but probably less accurate in
>>> the directional sensing of light so probably only suitable for close
>>> work (and by the way were much cheaper than my rifle one from what I
>>> know) which we used for all sorts of things (eg. being able to tell
>>> when liquids in a chemistry experiment went darker or cloudy or in
>>> physics to be able to explore the defraction patterns of lasers shone
>>> through slits).
>>>
>>> Michael whapples
>>> On 29 Oct 2011, at 00:15, Amanda Lacy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael, What is an audio scope?
>>>>
>>>> Amanda
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Whapples"
>>>> <mwhapples at aim.com>
>>>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 6:07 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Announcing SVGExplore01 from the creator
>>>> ofSVGDraw01
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This sounds interesting, I will have to try it out. Also I have a
>>>> few comments which I have put in your message below, some of them
>>>> said a little tongue in cheek although they may have a bit of a
>>>> serious point behind them.
>>>>
>>>> Please also keep in mind this is comments from your description.
>>>>
>>>> Michael Whapples
>>>> On 28 Oct 2011, at 18:45, Richard Baldwin wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> My hope is that this will provide an economical "quick look"
>>>>> alternative to
>>>>> the use of fully embossed drawings for the purpose of allowing the
>>>>> user to
>>>>> form a mental image of the shapes in the drawing.
>>>>> I also hope this will be true. Sometimes you know what you have
>>>>> done to a diagram, you want to check it is about right but may not
>>>>> want to emboss it at that point as you may still have a bit more
>>>>> editing to do before it is "final". It will be a good way to get a
>>>>> general overview.
>>>> [...]
>>>>> This is a mouse version of the program
>>>>>
>>>>> A fully operational touchpad version of the program is still in
>>>>> development.
>>>>> I am providing a mouse version at this time to allow potential
>>>>> users of the
>>>>> program to get a taste of how it works. I am hopeful that those
>>>>> users will
>>>>> try it out and provide feedback and suggestions for improvement.
>>>>> I am glad that you recognise some of the limitations of the mouse
>>>>> for this, good to see a touchpad being considered for the final one.
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> Grasp the mouse in your right hand with your thumb touching the
>>>>> upper-left
>>>>> corner of the grid. Try to hold the mouse so that the front-to-back
>>>>> axis of
>>>>> the mouse is parallel to the left edge of the grid.
>>>>> You right handed bigot, what about us left handed people :-(. May
>>>>> be a top right corner calibration option would be good as well. OK,
>>>>> don't know if that is needed, could it all work fine with a left
>>>>> hand on the mouse and so calibration being to the right side of the
>>>>> mouse?
>>>>
>>>> Also any tips on how to ensure alignment of the mouse axis? I could
>>>> imagine some of the weird and wacky ergonomic mouse designs with
>>>> curves and such all over may make the task harder.
>>>>
>>>>> Press the 'h' key with your left hand. That will position the mouse
>>>>> pointer
>>>>> in the upper-left corner of the drawing. Any time you feel lost you
>>>>> can
>>>>> repeat that procedure to reposition the mouse pointer in the
>>>>> upper-left
>>>>> corner to get your bearings again.
>>>>> Does this do anything with the mouse pointer on screen? I ask this
>>>>> as could potentially one corner oneself in the bottom right corner
>>>>> of the diagram? Mainly I am thinking of either the first time one
>>>>> calibrates if the mouse got to the bottom right corner of the
>>>>> screen or if having lifted the mouse the pointer finds itself in
>>>>> the bottom right corner. It may be a good idea to suggest swipe the
>>>>> mouse up and left a few times if cornering yourself is an issue.
>>>>> If you move the mouse to the right while dragging your thumb along
>>>>> the top
>>>>> edge of the grid (or along any horizontal grid line), you will
>>>>> (sometimes)
>>>>> hear a deep rumble in both ears similar to a motorcycle idling.
>>>>> Whenever you
>>>>> hear that sound, it means that there is a shape somewhere along a
>>>>> vertical
>>>>> line that is parallel to the left edge of the grid and below (or
>>>>> above) the
>>>>> mouse pointer. Note that you will only hear sounds when the mouse
>>>>> pointer is
>>>>> moving.
>>>>> When you say dragging, do you mean just moving or do you mean
>>>>> dragging as in holding left mouse button down at the same time?
>>>>> Interesting you decided to only have it make a noise when moving,
>>>>> any reason? I hadn't really thought about that until I saw this but
>>>>> I probably would have naturally had it go regardless of whether the
>>>>> mouse is moving.
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> There are three pitches associated with each shape. In addition,
>>>>> the three
>>>>> pitches associated with one shape are readily distinguishable from
>>>>> the three
>>>>> pitches associated with each of the other shapes.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you have placed the mouse pointer squarely on the center line
>>>>> of the
>>>>> boundary of a shape, you will hear a series of pulses at a pitch
>>>>> that I will
>>>>> refer to as the center pitch. When the mouse pointer is slightly
>>>>> below the
>>>>> center line, you will hear a slightly higher pitch. This means that
>>>>> you
>>>>> should slowly move the mouse toward the top of the grid to place
>>>>> the mouse
>>>>> pointer on the center line. When the mouse pointer is slightly
>>>>> above the
>>>>> center line, you will hear a pitch that is slightly below the
>>>>> center pitch.
>>>>> This means that you should slowly move the mouse toward the bottom
>>>>> of the
>>>>> grid to put the pointer on the center line.
>>>>>
>>>>> You will also hear the pulses in your left ear, your right ear, and
>>>>> evenly
>>>>> in both ears. When the mouse pointer is positioned squarely on the
>>>>> center
>>>>> line, you should hear the pulses with equal intensity at the center
>>>>> pitch in
>>>>> both ears. If you hear the sound in your left ear only, you need to
>>>>> move the
>>>>> mouse slowly to the left in order to place the mouse pointer on the
>>>>> center
>>>>> line. Similarly, if you hear the pulses in your right ear only, you
>>>>> need to
>>>>> move the mouse slowly to the right to acquire the center line.
>>>>> A question, not really sure if there is a wrong or right answer.
>>>>> Why did you choose to go with direction to find the target? The
>>>>> alternative is say where the person is pointing relative to the
>>>>> target (eg. if I am pointing to the left then I get a signal
>>>>> saying/indicating left). May be I am particularly aware of the two
>>>>> systems as with my shooting the audio scope I use only gives me
>>>>> useful tones when it is pointing at the target diagram, so if I am
>>>>> not pointing at the target the assistant tells me the direction,
>>>>> but I noticed some were saying which way I needed to move when
>>>>> others were saying which way off the target I was pointing, a bit
>>>>> confusing until I realised what was going on.
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> In order to help you maintain your orientation, all shapes are
>>>>> forced to be
>>>>> closed, even if they weren't originally closed when the drawing was
>>>>> created
>>>>> in SVGDraw01. By this I mean, for example, that if you plot a
>>>>> series of
>>>>> points using the Polyline action in SVGDraw01, a line will be drawn
>>>>> that
>>>>> automatically connects the last point back to the first point in this
>>>>> program. That will help you to identify the ends of a curve and avoid
>>>>> falling off the end of a curve only to search in vain for the rest
>>>>> of the
>>>>> curve.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, this is not completely without its problems. The
>>>>> return
>>>>> stroke can sometimes cross the curve and create a crossroads where
>>>>> there is
>>>>> no difference in the pitch of each of the four directions of travel
>>>>> at the
>>>>> intersection. (Think of the center of a figure 8.) I'm still
>>>>> thinking about
>>>>> how to solve this problem and suggestions are welcome.
>>>>> Would it be possible to give the closing line a different sound? An
>>>>> example might be use a different wave form for the tone, so actual
>>>>> shape sides are sine waves, the closing but non-existent side is a
>>>>> triangular wave. Another alternative might be to give a sound
>>>>> indicating end of line (eg. a pulse of white noise) or a click.
>>>> [...]
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