[Blindmath] How useful is a GUI to blind users?

Sun Jan 8 00:41:51 UTC 2012

Dick and all,

Oh, yes, please! Just good old fashioned prompts, thank you ever so 
much! /grin/

If I had a dime for every minute I waste working around accessibility 
issues with GUIs... I would be plenty rich enough to start my own 
programming company with all the best and brightest to design systems 
blind and/or VI users can actually use without wasting all of their time 
screwing around with GUIs. And then some!

I don't mean to sound like I don't appreciate the often times heroic 
efforts of accessibility designers/developers to keep up with changes in 
GUIs so we can use them to work and live and even play. I really, really 
do benefit from their work and know that.

But I'm just old enough to miss the command line days. /smile/ And that 
was before I was working nonvisually. My current quest is to get back to 
running a Linux environment from the terminal, using braille and speech, 
and I am getting close. Which could be why I go nuts adding up all the 
times I spend trying to figure out how to use the GUI stuff to get 
everything else done. /lol/

Okay, the closer I get, the nuttier I get, which is just me having fun.

I'm looking forward to hearing what others say and what you come up 
with. Getting back into Java is getting closer to the top of my to do 
list, so I have had a lot of the same questions you asked in mind when I 
think about where I want to go from here. /smile/

Cheers,

Tami

On 01/07/2012 10:59 AM, Richard Baldwin wrote:
> I am speaking specifically of programs that are specialized for blind and
> possibly VI users, with particular emphasis being on blind users. For
> example, there are many drawing programs that sighted users can use, but
> which are not not accessible for blind users. Some of them would be
> accessible for VI users using magnifiers, etc.
>
> I have written and published a drawing program that blind users can use to
> draw just about anything they can imagine, but sighted users might not want
> to use the program because there are better alternatives for sighted users.
> There may also be better alternatives for VI users.
>
> The user interface was written using SWT and it currently only runs under
> Windows. Additional programming effort and a considerable maintenance
> effort would be required to make it compatible with other platforms. A
> prompt-reply interface would have been much easier to write, and, I
> believe, would run on any platform that supports Java without any
> additional programming or maintenance effort. And, I believe that, with
> some thought and a good design, it could be made almost as efficient from
> the user's viewpoint.
>
> Amanda has written and has published a program that will convert an SVG
> drawing file into a SIG file for embossing on machines that use the
> QuickTac software. I doubt that many sighted users would have any interest
> in that program, but I expect that quite a few blind users will be
> interested in using it, particularly if the new 25-dpi Phoenix embosser
> supports the QuickTac SIG file format.
>
> Once again, the GUI for Amanda's program was written using SWT, and it
> currently runs only on Windows. Additional programming effort would be
> required to make it compatible with other platforms. The user interface for
> that program is very simple. I believe that if the interface had been
> written as a prompt-reply interface, the program would be compatible with
> any platform that supports Java.
>
> Quite a lot of cleanup work is often required to convert a typical bitmap
> file into a file that can be embossed to produce a meaningful tactile
> image. I am currently working on a program which I hope will make it
> possible for blind users to do a reasonable job of doing the cleanup work
> and converting bitmap image files into SVG files, and with Amanda's
> program, into SIG files, for embossing without sighted assistance. Once
> again, I doubt that most sighted users would be interested in using this
> program, but it could be very useful for blind students who need to emboss
> the images in a typical textbook to use in combination with the
> descriptions of the images in the textbook.
>
> So, my question has to do with specialized programs that are designed for
> use by blind and VI users, with the major emphasis being on blind users. As
> you point out, other alternatives are often available for VI users.
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
> Dick Baldwin
>
> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Alex Hall<mehgcap at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> My first thought is low-vision users who need accessibility for screen
>> readers or magnification, but can still benefit from a good gui. Also,
>> many tasks are significantly sped up by using keyboard shortcuts and
>> finding functions in dropdown menus, and you lose that when you use a
>> command prompt. Some tasks simply require a gui, too, such as sound
>> editing, web browsing (and, from there, reading of many emails), or
>> media playback (especially for skipping through tracks).
>> All that aside, there is still the overall question of specialization:
>> do you want to write a program that anyone can use, or do you want to
>> write a program specifically for blind users that no one else can (or
>> at least would want) to use? I see this as being similar to
>> specialized notetakers. It used to be that they were a good and even
>> necessary solution, but nowadays you can pick up a braille display and
>> an iPhone and have almost as much functionality for less money and
>> without dealing with all the headaches of supporting a highly
>> specialized platform (high overhead, long waits for updates, missing
>> features, and so on). Instead, you can get access to most apps that
>> anyone else has, plus the lower costs of the equipment and any
>> protection plans. When programming, I would nearly always take the
>> program that everyone else is using over a highly specialized program
>> that only a few are using. There are a very few exceptions to this,
>> the Twitter client Qwitter and its forks being one, but that is mostly
>> because it is the first program I tried and I have not yet tried, say,
>> the Twitter website with the GM script written by James Teh to enhance
>> NVDA's compatibility with that interface.
>>
>> On 1/7/12, Richard Baldwin<baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>  wrote:
>>> It occurred to me the other day that prior to the advent of the Graphical
>>> User Interface (GUI), the user interfaces for all programs were
>> accessible
>>> for blind users so long as they had a screen reader that would speak the
>>> information displayed on the command-prompt screen.
>>>
>>> For those who are too young to remember, programs in that day prompted
>> the
>>> user for input and the user responded in a back-and-forth dialog fashion.
>>> Once all of the input data was provided, the program ran and did whatever
>>> it was supposed to do.
>>>
>>> Another way that information was provided to the program was in the form
>> of
>>> typed information (commonly called switches) provided by the user when
>> she
>>> started the program running. Batch files were often created with a simple
>>> text editor to make this procedure less prone to typing errors.
>>>
>>> The one area where I see the GUI being particularly useful for a blind
>> user
>>> is the file selection dialog. The use of the GUI dialog eliminates the
>>> requirement to type long path and file names. However, if the disk is
>>> organized in such a way as to keep the paths short, even this doesn't
>>> appear to be a significant advantage.
>>>
>>> For those who don't know, and without getting into the technical details
>> as
>>> to why, there are major problems associated with creating accessible user
>>> interfaces when programming in Java. Using the SWT to create accessible
>>> user interfaces significantly reduces the power of the Java programming
>>> environment because it precludes the use of many excellent programming
>>> libraries.
>>>
>>> This causes me to wonder if, for those programs that are primarily
>> intended
>>> for use by blind and VI users, it might make sense to go backwards in
>> time,
>>> forego the GUI, and write those programs using the "old-fashioned" prompt
>>> and reply style of user interface. I would be interested in seeing some
>>> discussion on this topic.
>>>
>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>
>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>> Austin Community College
>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>> mehgcap at gmail.com; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
>>
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