[Blindmath] Extracting bitmap images from pdf files

Richard Baldwin baldwin at dickbaldwin.com
Sat Jan 28 19:29:56 UTC 2012 

I will be responding to questions and comments from several different
individuals in this post, so I will refer to each person by name.

Maureen: I will be happy to send some files off list for you to emboss and
evaluate if you would be interested in doing that. I would be interested in
your feed back.

Jamal: You wrote "In reviewing the documentation for the PDF library I'm
using, I notice there is also the ability to save each page as an image.
 Would that be helpful?"

That would be very helpful. I have generally concluded (more on this in a
separate post) that the most practical way for a sighted person to extract
images from a pdf file for a blind student is to deal with each page as an
image file, crop, cut, copy, and paste. I have identified a free website
that will convert a pdf file to a set of image files, but the less often I
am required to download files from strange websites, the happier I am. I
never know what may be riding those files into my computer. Your
stand-alone command-line based program would make it possible to make the
conversion locally. Please provide more information.

Ben: You wrote "I have a question -- are you using the most popular
university Physics textbook, whatever that may be?"

Actually, I teach Computer Science and not physics. Amanda is a Computer
Science student, and I am helping her in a required physics course. Her
physics book is the only one that I know anything about. However, I believe
this pdf-image issue applies to many college-level textbooks, because many
blind college students probably receive their electronic textbooks in pdf
format. Once again, however, the only one that I have any personal
knowledge about is Amanda's physics book.

I will send you a pdf file of one of the chapters from the textbook off
list later today.

Bente: You wrote "If we could stick with a text for more than two years it
would be so helpful."

I will simply say a loud AMEN to that. In my 18 years of teaching, I have
never understood why community colleg instructors insist on changing
textbooks so frequently, causing much more work for themselves in the
process. I have gotten to the point that I tell my students that the
textbook is for reference purposes only and the material for the course is
published at http://www.dickbaldwin.com.

Dick Baldwin

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Bente Casile <bente at casilenc.com> wrote:

> Ben,
>
> My greatest wish for all the blind students out there is that we in the
> college system could have a repository of tactile graphics for science and
> math classes.  If we could stick with a text for more than two years it
> would be so helpful.  As someone who makes math tactile graphics for our
> students, I would love to see that happen.  It would allow us to get ahead
> for students to benefit directly from the hard work of others and not to
> have to  "re-invent" the wheel every time a new text is adopted.
>
> Oh, and PS .. Austin is very nice..smiles
>
> Bente
> Bente J. Casile
> Math Learning Specialist
> Wake Tech Community College
> Raleigh NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Ben Humphreys
> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:17 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Extracting bitmap images from pdf files
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> As best I recall, it was a Microsoft Word file which we typically
> "saved as" HTML in order to get the graphics extracted out in an
> automated way.  Some came out as GIF, others JPEG, leading me to
> believe that Word preserves the original file intact.  These were
> .DOC, not .DOCX, so I don't believe they were really ZIP files in
> DOCX clothing.
>
> As my instructor routinely"pasted" in JPGs, GIFs, etc from all around
> the world into her Microsoft Word files, it's anyone's guess why a
> few got all broken up like that.  Most remained intact.
>
> Part way through the class, I ended up having my assistant extract by
> hand the images as the automated way was too difficult to distinguish
> the garbage (i.e. little arrows and such) from the meaningful calculus
> graphs.
>
> I have a question -- are you using the most popular university
> Physics textbook, whatever that may be?  If so, and we get to the
> bottom of this, we could conceivably have a repository of labeled
> graphics files so others wouldn't have to repeat this step, and joy
> of joys, I could take physics without moving to Austin, :)  This of
> course is not to say Austin isn't a great place, it's just that I
> might have to move again when I want to take biology or chemestry.
>
> As always, thanks for your continued enthusiasm.
>
> And as I said, you're welcome to send me a file or two and we'll
> throw our Acrobat Pro strategy at it, maybe even consider how it
> might be automated.
>
> Ben
>
> At 08:59 AM 1/28/2012, you wrote:
>
> But, no, I do not believe we were dealing with PDFs in this case.
>
> Typically, when we have a PDF with a graphic, my assistant draws a
> box around it I think and saves it out separately.  I'm not clear on
> the process but he did say it required Acrobat Pro and once it's
> extracted, it's easy to blow it up to fill the page for easier
> tactile understanding.
>
>
> >Hi Ben,
> >
> >I appreciate your frustration.
> >
> >Were the  "30 itty bitty graphics files" that apparently were small parts
> >of two actual graphs produced using Acrobat Pro, or were you using some
> >different image extraction software during that lost weekend?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Dick Baldwin
> >
> >On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 5:55 AM, Ben Humphreys
> ><brh at opticinspiration.org>wrote:
> >
> > > I suppose this procedure could work.
> > >
> > > But when it's this much effort to get to the starting gate, while other
> > > students are already moving forward and you're falling behind, it's no
> fun,
> > > and the added time and complexity and brainpower just takes all the
> > > motivation out of you.
> > >
> > > I remember losing a whole weekend to the issue of 30 itty bitty
> graphics
> > > files in a Calculus PDF.  Having embossed them, they were all told to
> "fit
> > > to page" and were thusly huge.  I was thinking they were all graphs and
> > > problems to be interpreted and worked on and understood, only to be
> told
> > > later that there were only two graphs and having the benefit of a
> sighted
> > > person on Monday morning to finally tell me that they were bits and
> pieces
> > > of the two relatively simple graphs.
> > >
> > > It's enough to make you want to be a Steve Jobs and exit school
> > > prematurely.
> > >
> > > Prof Baldwin, this is certainly not to say I don't appreciate all your
> > > effforts.  In fact, if and when I ever need to take physics, I am
> seriously
> > > considering relocating to Austin for a semester.
> > >
> > > P.S. I do have Acrobat pro so if you can send me the single page PDF in
> > > question, we can attempt to extract as a single image.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >
> > > At 02:56 PM 1/27/2012, you wrote:
> > >
> > >> In a previous post I wrote:
> > >>
> > >> "By the way, I don't know how a blind person would carry out the
> second
> of
> > >> the following two steps in John's procedure:
> > >>
> > >> * import the PDF into IVEO Creator Pro.
> > >> * Check the PDF to find which pages have images of interest and emboss
> > >> those
> > >> pages.
> > >>
> > >> It seems that checking the pdf to find which pages have images would
> be
> > >> similar to checking a screen shot of a page to find and crop the
> image.
> It
> > >> seems that you would need to be able to see the pdf on the IVEO screen
> to
> > >> know if it contains an image. I am working with pdf files containing
> > >> anywhere between 30 and 80 pages. Embossing every page in order to
> > >> identify
> > >> the pages that contain images would not be practical."
> > >>
> > >> I have learned how a blind person could find the pages containing the
> > >> images in a pdf file without having to see the screen. Here is one
> > >> procedure for doing that.
> > >>
> > >> When you import a pdf file into Creator Pro, a set of SVG files is
> > >> automatically created in the folder than contains the pdf file. There
> is
> > >> one SVG file for each page in the pdf file. The file names indicate
> the
> > >> pdf
> > >> page number except that pages in a pdf file are typically numbered
> > >> beginning with 1 while the file numbers produced by Creator Pro begin
> with
> > >> 0. Thus, file number 0 will probably correspond to page 1 in the pdf
> > >> document.
> > >>
> > >> Read the pdf file in your preferred pdf file reader. If from the pdf
> text,
> > >> you can determine which pages in the pdf file contain images of
> interest,
> > >> you can record those page numbers using whatever method you use to
> record
> > >> information of that sort.
> > >>
> > >> Then you can import the pdf file into Creator Pro, producing the set
> of
> > >> SVG
> > >> files described above. Then you can open the SVG files that contain
> > >> interesting images in your IVEO viewer software, emboss the pages, and
> > >> proceed as John explained in an earlier post.
> > >>
> > >> Dick Baldwin
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Richard Baldwin
> > >> <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>**wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Michael wrote " There is one option I am aware of for a blind person
> to
> > >> > do this independently, IVEO like John suggested,"
> > >> >
> > >> > I may be wrong, but I didn't get the idea that John's solution will
> > >> > produce an output bitmap file - only an embossed image.
> > >> >
> > >> > I may be wrong again, but as near as I can tell, IVEO doesn't do any
> > >> image
> > >> > enhancement prior to embossing the image. If I am wrong on these
> points,
> > >> > John will probably come online and set the record straight.
> > >> >
> > >> > IVEO seems to simply convert the bitmap image to gray scale and
> emboss
> > >> the
> > >> > gray scale. While gray scale embossing is okay for some images
> > >> (especially
> > >> > blank and white images), it is definitely not the best option for
> many
> > >> > images. After all, if you convert 16 million colors to four levels
> of
> > >> gray
> > >> > scale, each level of gray scale represents 4 million different
> colors.
> > >> > Pixels belonging to each set of 4 million colors will not be
> > >> > distinguishable in the gray scale representation.
> > >> >
> > >> > My objective is to gain access to full-color bitmap images so that I
> can
> > >> > enhance the image for embossing prior to throwing away all of the
> color
> > >> > information.
> > >> >
> > >> > Embossed versions of bitmap images are often very difficult to
> > >> understand,
> > >> > even with a decent description. I believe we need to do everything
> > >> > reasonable to improve the understandability of embossed bitmap
> images.
> > >> In
> > >> > some cases, image enhancement techniques at the full-color stage can
> be
> > >> > used to provide those improvements.
> > >> >
> > >> > So, my quest continues, hopefully without having to pay $445.00 for
> > >> > Acrobat Pro, just to get access to the images.
> > >> >
> > >> > The fallback position, of course, is to use screen shots and an
> image
> > >> > editor program to crop out the individual images, but that approach
> is
> > >> not
> > >> > possible for a blind person to use. You can't crop an image out of a
> > >> screen
> > >> > shot unless you can see the image.
> > >> >
> > >> > By the way, I don't know how a blind person would carry out the
> second
> > >> of
> > >> > the following two steps in John's procedure:
> > >> >
> > >> > * import the PDF into IVEO Creator Pro.
> > >> > * Check the PDF to find which pages have images of interest and
> emboss
> > >> > those
> > >> > pages.
> > >> >
> > >> > It seems that checking the pdf to find which pages have images would
> be
> > >> > similar to checking a screen shot of a page to find and crop the
> image.
> > >> It
> > >> > seems that you would need to be able to see the pdf on the IVEO
> screen
> > >> to
> > >> > know if it contains an image. I am working with pdf files containing
> > >> > anywhere between 30 and 80 pages. Embossing every page in order to
> > >> identify
> > >> > the pages that contain images would not be practical.
> > >> >
> > >> > Dick Baldwin
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Richard Baldwin <
> > >> baldwin at dickbaldwin.com
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Amanda and others,
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I have contacted Adobe technical support. There solution to the
> problem
> > >> >> is to purchase Acrobat Pro for $445.00. The tech support rep told
> me
> > >> that
> > >> >> their program will extract the pictures intact as separate bitmap
> > >> files.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Dick Baldwin
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Michael Whapples
> <mwhapples at aim.com
> > >> >wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> Hello,
> > >> >>> From what you are describing, my feeling is that the
> diagrams/images
> > >> in
> > >> >>> the PDF in question are created from a number of drawing elements
> > >> rather
> > >> >>> than a single image object. I'm not an expert on PDF, but I think
> you
> > >> could
> > >> >>> think of it like the difference of a bitmap being a single element
> (I
> > >> think
> > >> >>> PDF has a way to specify the start of a stream object like a
> bitmap)
> > >> and an
> > >> >>> SVG being formed from lots of elements like lines and shapes (I
> think
> > >> in
> > >> >>> PDF the lines and such like can be created with basic PDF drawing
> > >> >>> facilities so are not in a separate object). When the image is
> formed
> > >> from
> > >> >>> lots of elements then it may be hard for the software to know what
> > >> makes up
> > >> >>> a given diagram in the book/document, it just lays it out as
> > >> specified and
> > >> >>> you work out what's related. I think one way to tell whether you
> have
> > >> this
> > >> >>> sort of image is to see if NVDA will read some of the text labels
> of
> > >> the
> > >> >>> image, if it does then its not a pure bitmap (you probably could
> use
> > >> the
> > >> >>> read out lout function of adobe reader as well). Therefore I
> imagine
> > >> that
> > >> >>> without clever recognition algorithms you are unlikely to get
> > >> something
> > >> >>> which will extract it as you want.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> There is one option I am aware of for a blind person to do this
> > >> >>> independently, IVEO like John suggested, however IVEO isn't a
> cheap
> > >> option
> > >> >>> and depending on how much is to be done would determine whether
> its
> > >> worth
> > >> >>> the money if providing accessible diagrams from PDF was its only
> use.
> > >> IVEO
> > >> >>> does not require a tiger printer, swell paper would work, other
> > >> embossers
> > >> >>> may (the outputting from IVEO is the question as I think it may
> only
> > >> output
> > >> >>> to devices appearing as standard printers). Interesting, the IVEO
> > >> route
> > >> >>> again is requiring a human to make the decision on what forms the
> > >> diagram.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Michael Whapples
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Baldwin
> > >> >>> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 3:28 PM
> > >> >>> To: Jamal Mazrui
> > >> >>> Cc: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> > >> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Extracting bitmap images from pdf files
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Hi Jamal,
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> It is a great program, easy to use, and probably totally
> accessible. I
> > >> >>> particularly like the fact that the program doesn't require a
> windows
> > >> >>> installation. The output data is well organized and including the
> page
> > >> >>> numbers in the bmp file names is a great help in analyzing them.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Unfortunately, the output produced by the program suffers from the
> > >> same
> > >> >>> issues that I have encountered with all of the other image
> extractor
> > >> >>> programs that I have tried. A few of the images come out intact.
> Most
> > >> of
> > >> >>> the images don't come out intact.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> For example, page three of one of the pdf files that I tested has
> a
> > >> >>> single
> > >> >>> image of a battery. It is the same image that I enhanced and
> posted
> > >> in an
> > >> >>> earlier post. Your program produced 54 bmp files for that page. A
> few
> > >> of
> > >> >>> them were icons such as arrows exclamation marks, etc. The
> remaining
> > >> bmp
> > >> >>> files appear to be a very small pieces of the image of the
> battery.
> By
> > >> >>> the
> > >> >>> way, I got the earlier image of the battery by taking a screen
> shot
> of
> > >> >>> the
> > >> >>> page and using an image editing program to crop out the battery
> image.
> > >> >>> None
> > >> >>> of the image extraction programs that I have tested extract the
> image
> > >> >>> intact.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I don't know anything at all about the internal structure of pdf
> > >> files,
> > >> >>> and
> > >> >>> this behavior of breaking an image into many small pieces may
> depend
> > >> on
> > >> >>> how
> > >> >>> the file is constructed in the first place. In any event, my
> immediate
> > >> >>> problem has to do with a specific set of pdf files that are the
> > >> chapters
> > >> >>> from a specific physics book, so this program doesn't solve my
> > >> problem.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Thanks for offering the program.
> > >> >>> Dick Baldwin
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Jamal Mazrui <empower at smart.net>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>  In an attempt to facilitate a free, non-web dependent solution, I
> > >> have
> > >> >>>> written a Windows console-mode utility called PDF2Images, built
> with
> > >> >>>> PowerBASIC and a PDF library.  The distribution archive,
> including
> > >> >>>> documentation and source code, is available at
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>
> >
> http://empowermentzone.com/******pdf2images.zip<
> http://empowermentzone.com/*
> ***pdf2images.zip>
> > >>
> >
> <http://**empowermentzone.com/****pdf2images.zip<
> http://empowermentzone.com/
> **pdf2images.zip>
> > >> >
> > >> >>>>
> >
> <http://**empowermentzone.com/****pdf2images.zip<
> http://empowermentzone.com/
> **pdf2images.zip>
> > >>
> >
> <http://**empowermentzone.com/**pdf2images.zip<
> http://empowermentzone.com/pd
> f2images.zip>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >>>> >
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> I am interested in any feedback on how well it works compared to
> > >> other
> > >> >>>> approaches.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Jamal
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> --
> > >> >>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> > >> >>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> > >> >>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
> > >> >>> Austin Community College
> > >> >>> (512) 223-4758
> > >> >>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> > >> >>>
> > http://www.austincc.edu/****baldwin/<http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
> ><
> > >> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
> >>
> > >> >>> ______________________________****_________________
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> > >> >>> mwhapples%40aim.com<http://**nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**>>
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> > >> >
> > >> >>>
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> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> > >> >> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> > >> >> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Professor of Computer Information Technology
> > >> >> Austin Community College
> > >> >> (512) 223-4758
> > >> >> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> > >> >> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> > >> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> > >> > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> > >> >
> > >> > Professor of Computer Information Technology
> > >> > Austin Community College
> > >> > (512) 223-4758
> > >> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> > >> > http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <
> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> > >> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> > >> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> > >>
> > >> Professor of Computer Information Technology
> > >> Austin Community College
> > >> (512) 223-4758
> > >> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> > >> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
> > >> ______________________________**_________________
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> >Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> >http://www.DickBaldwin.com
> >
> >Professor of Computer Information Technology
> >Austin Community College
> >(512) 223-4758
> >mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> >http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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-- 
Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
http://www.DickBaldwin.com

Professor of Computer Information Technology
Austin Community College
(512) 223-4758
mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/

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