[Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought

Thu Mar 29 02:27:00 UTC 2012

Dick,

I should probably have used more restraint as well.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:20:32 -0500, Richard Baldwin wrote:

>Thanks Steve. Sorry I got things all tangled up.

>Dick Baldwin

>On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com>wrote:

>> Dick,
>>
>> I saw your references to other posts, but not having seen them I had to go
>> on what you had written, and I saw it in the context of the fact that we had
>> mentioned efforts made by other companies to develop face recognition
>> software.  However, I accept your point and am glad there is a better
>> explanation
>> than what I had concluded.  You make valuable contributions here and your
>> work on drawing software is very important.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:54:44 -0500, Richard Baldwin wrote:
>>
>> >Steve,
>>
>> >You wrote "My point here is not to scold as we have been sort of scolded,"
>>
>> >My earlier post was not intended to scold you or anyone else in the blind
>> >community.
>>
>> >I pointed out when I made the (apparently offending) statement that it
>> >might not make sense to some readers due to those readers not having seen
>> >all of the previous posts due to distribution issues with earlier posts.
>>
>> >My post was in response to a post made earlier by a SIGHTED individual, I
>> >repeat a SIGHTED individual, who in effect said that we shouldn't expend
>> >efforts doing things that the big companies might do better if we are
>> >patient and willing to wait long enough.
>>
>> >My point is that if I had the need, (and perhaps there is no need), I
>> >wouldn't be patient and wait for something that the big companies might do
>> >for me at some time in the future. Instead, if possible, I would do it for
>> >myself.
>>
>> >Dick Baldwin
>>
>> >On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> >> I don't understand the question.
>> >> Dick Baldwin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <
>> >> REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Dick,
>> >>> You percieve this as a problem. Why?
>> >>> I don't. The technology is interesting, but it doesn't mean not seeing
>> >>> someone's face is a problem.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:
>> blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >>> On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:04 AM
>> >>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics;
>> >>> seeingwithsound at freelists.org
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>> >>>
>> >>> Apologies to those who haven't seen all of the response postings due to
>> >>> cross listing of the original post and to whom this post probably won't
>> >>> make sense.
>> >>>
>> >>> If I were blind and could purchase all of the necessary hardware,
>> >>> including
>> >>> gigabytes of USB storage for a few hundred dollars, I wouldn't be
>> sitting
>> >>> around waiting for Microsoft, Google, Apple, or some other large
>> company
>> >>> to
>> >>> solve my problems. I would be working to solve those problems myself.
>> >>>
>> >>> If Bill Gates and Michael Dell had that attitude, there wouldn't be a
>> >>> Microsoft. IBM would "own" the computer market on a worldwide basis.
>> >>>
>> >>> Dick Baldwin
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Carolyn MacLeod <
>> >>> Carolyn_MacLeod at ca.ibm.com
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > Not sure if this is useful, and you probably already know, but
>> >>> Microsoft's
>> >>> > Windows Live Photo Gallery and Picasa and iPhoto (and some others)
>> have
>> >>> a
>> >>> > feature called face-tagging.
>> >>> > They work surprisingly well, although they need someone to identify
>> >>> photos
>> >>> > and confirm guesses, and they do make some ridiculous mistakes
>> >>> sometimes.
>> >>> > If you have Windows 7 or Vista, you may already have Windows Live
>> Photo
>> >>> > Gallery installed - to find out, open the Start menu and type
>> "Windows
>> >>> > Live Photo Gallery" in the Search field, then Enter.
>> >>> > If not, here's a link with a download button:
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/features/photo-gallery
>> >>> > Carolyn
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > From:
>> >>> > Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
>> >>> > To:
>> >>> > BlindMath Mailing List <blindmath at nfbnet.org>,
>> >>> > seeingwithsound at freelists.org
>> >>> > Date:
>> >>> > 03/27/2012 11:05 PM
>> >>> > Subject:
>> >>> > [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>> >>> > Sent by:
>> >>> > blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Most of the math courses that I completed in public school and
>> college
>> >>> > mainly involved completely deterministic concepts such as finding
>> >>> unknown
>> >>> > in sets of algebraic equations, proving theorems in geometry, proving
>> >>> > identities in trigonometry, solving triangle problems using
>> >>> trigonometry,
>> >>> > differentiating functions, integrating functions, playing around with
>> >>> > solids of revolution, etc. They were all good exercises for the brain
>> >>> but
>> >>> > were not very close to real-world problems.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > When I made it into engineering college, the problems and their
>> >>> solutions
>> >>> > were closer to the real world but only barely so.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > When I completed my first engineering degree and went to work in the
>> >>> real
>> >>> > world, I learned very quickly that problems in the real world are far
>> >>> from
>> >>> > deterministics. In other words, there are very few problems in the
>> real
>> >>> > world that have deterministic solutions. Problems in the real world
>> >>> > usually
>> >>> > involve a mix of mathematics, statistics, physics, engineering,
>> computer
>> >>> > science, and other technologies, and there is rarely a single correct
>> >>> > solution for any problem.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Furthermore, the solution to most problems requires the design and
>> >>> > implementation of complex mathematical algorithms, and those
>> algorithms
>> >>> > are
>> >>> > most commonly implemented using a computer of some sort. (In my
>> opinion,
>> >>> > every student that receives a technical degree should be required to
>> >>> learn
>> >>> > to program well in at least one programming language.)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > By now you must be wondering where this is all heading.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I saw on TV today that shopping malls and large department stores are
>> >>> > installing electronic billboards that use facial recognition to
>> display
>> >>> > advertisements that are likely to be of interest to those persons who
>> >>> can
>> >>> > see the billboard.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I have no idea what the facial recognition algorithm is for
>> categorizing
>> >>> > the viewers in a way that allows for a selection of appropriate
>> >>> > advertisements. However, this tells me that the algorithm doesn't
>> >>> require
>> >>> > a
>> >>> > supercomputer to implement. The algorithms must be implemented using
>> >>> > modestly priced computer hardware. Otherwise, they would be too
>> >>> expensive
>> >>> > to include in such billboards.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > This makes me wonder if it might be possible to use a small portable
>> >>> > computer to develop a system that will do facial recognition on
>> people
>> >>> > whose faces appear in the field of view of a miniature video camera
>> >>> > embedded in eyeglass frames and to speak information about those
>> people
>> >>> to
>> >>> > the wearer of the glasses.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Science fiction? Maybe so and maybe not.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Dr. Peter Meijer has demonstrated that it is possible to couple a
>> video
>> >>> > camera built into eyeglass frames with a small portable computer and
>> an
>> >>> > appropriate software program (The vOICe) and to create soundscapes
>> that
>> >>> > some blind users find very beneficial (see
>> >>> http://www.seeingwithsound.com/
>> >>> > )
>> >>> > as they move through the world.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Not being blind, I can't imagine what it would be like to interact
>> with
>> >>> > other people that you can't see. However, it seems to me that it
>> would
>> >>> be
>> >>> > beneficial for a blind person to know something about another persons
>> >>> > before a conversation begins. Depending on capability, this could
>> range
>> >>> > all
>> >>> > the way from rudimentary information such as the probable sex and
>> likely
>> >>> > age of the person, to detailed information such as the
>> identification of
>> >>> > prior acquaintances by name.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Perhaps it is time for a group of blind mathematicians, physicists,
>> >>> > engineers, statisticians, and computer scientists to band together to
>> >>> > produce such a system and to publish it as an open source
>> >>> > hardware/software
>> >>> > system.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Food for thought,
>> >>> > Dick Baldwin
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >>> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> >>> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> >>> > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> >>> > Austin Community College
>> >>> > (512) 223-4758
>> >>> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> >>> > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>>
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>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> >>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> >>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>> >>>
>> >>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> >>> Austin Community College
>> >>> (512) 223-4758
>> >>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> >>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> >> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> >> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>> >>
>> >> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> >> Austin Community College
>> >> (512) 223-4758
>> >> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> >> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> >--
>> >Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> >Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> >http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>> >Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> >Austin Community College
>> >(512) 223-4758
>> >mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> >http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>> >_______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>-- 
>Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>http://www.DickBaldwin.com

>Professor of Computer Information Technology
>Austin Community College
>(512) 223-4758
>mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>_______________________________________________
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