[Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought

Steve Jacobson steve.jacobson at visi.com
Fri Mar 30 20:30:35 UTC 2012 

Carolyn,

I would like to echo Dr. Balwin's comments that my response was also not directed at your note.  I think 
there are some interesting aspects to such applications for us as blind people.  I don't want to comment 
further since we should probably try to get back to math.  <smile>

Best regards,

Steve

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:42:50 -0400, Carolyn MacLeod wrote:

>I guess this must have been in response to my post about the face-tagging 
>software?
>If so, I feel compelled to set the record straight by saying that I did 
>not in any way mean to imply that folks should sit by and wait for big 
>companies to do stuff.
>I only wanted to share what I had discovered when I tried the face-tagging 
>in Photo Gallery, because I was pretty impressed by its performance.

>If you had been able to read my mind while I was posting, you would have 
>heard something like, "Cool topic! Here's something I learned on the 
>subject."
>(Now there's a challenging math problem for the future... analyzing 
>people's thought data <grin>).

>Please allow me to elaborate on my Photo Gallery experience a bit more, 
>just for the fun of sharing an exploration of new technology.  :)
>I have thousands and thousands of photos on my computer, and I ran Photo 
>Gallery partly to see what it could do, and partly because my husband said 
>he needed a photo of himself for a Bio.
>Richard, you are correct: it is not real-time, but it is almost fast 
>enough - it was processing about 3 or 4 photos per second, maybe more.
>The accuracy depended on whether or not the person has distinctive facial 
>features.
>For example, after showing me several faces which I identified as my 
>husband, it suggested over 800 more of him without a single error!
>This included some photos that were dark, grainy, small, or with an angled 
>or tilted view.
>I was surprised at the accuracy, and then I realized that my husband is 
>the only person in all of my photos who has a dark mustache and glasses, 
>so the software obviously optimizes for those.
>It had a more difficult time with my 9-year-old son, however, getting only 
>about 80% of his photos correct, as it quite often suggested one of his 
>cousins, or occasionally, his friends.
>It had some real bloopers, like once it suggested that his Grandma might 
>be him.
>The algorithms behind all this must be really cool, but I do have a 
>suggestion for them... look at the date the photos were taken.
>If you have a photo of a person in their seventies and one of a child, and 
>both photos were taken on the same day, it is not possible for them to be 
>the same person.  :)

>I want to share one more thing that I learned, if you will permit me. I 
>believe it pertains to the topic.
>After Richard posted about the real-time facial recognition, I searched 
>the App Store, just for fun, to see what iPhone apps might be out there.
>Most of them are simple entertainment apps that find a face in a photo and 
>decorate it in some way.
>One app, called Cyborg, did claim to have real-time facial recognition, 
>looking up and displaying the identified person's name, gender, home town, 
>birthday and current location, and whether or not they are smiling.
>I don't recommend the app because the reviews are not very good, but what 
>I found interesting was that they get the data by requesting that you log 
>in to your Facebook account.
>The advantages of that are that the user does not need to carry any photos 
>and other data around, and that there is an enormous quantity of data that 
>your Facebook friends and family have already entered for you.
>The disadvantages, of course, are the lack of privacy issues, and the fact 
>that the data comes from other people and sources and therefore might not 
>be as trusted as if it came directly from the user.

>One last thing. Apparently Google is planning to sell something called 
>Google Goggles by year end.
>They have a camera, and a possibly interesting head-tilting mechanism for 
>selecting things, but unfortunately they do not seem to have an earpiece 
>(I could be wrong).
>However, if they catch on, then it may just be considered cool to be 
>wearing high-tech headgear.  <grin>
>http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/google-to-sell-terminator-style-glasses-by-years-end/

>Carolyn



>From:
>Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
>To:
>Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>Date:
>03/28/2012 05:56 PM
>Subject:
>Re: [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>Sent by:
>blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org



>Steve,

>You wrote "My point here is not to scold as we have been sort of scolded,"

>My earlier post was not intended to scold you or anyone else in the blind
>community.

>I pointed out when I made the (apparently offending) statement that it
>might not make sense to some readers due to those readers not having seen
>all of the previous posts due to distribution issues with earlier posts.

>My post was in response to a post made earlier by a SIGHTED individual, I
>repeat a SIGHTED individual, who in effect said that we shouldn't expend
>efforts doing things that the big companies might do better if we are
>patient and willing to wait long enough.

>My point is that if I had the need, (and perhaps there is no need), I
>wouldn't be patient and wait for something that the big companies might do
>for me at some time in the future. Instead, if possible, I would do it for
>myself.

>Dick Baldwin

>On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Richard Baldwin 
><baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>wrote:

>> I don't understand the question.
>> Dick Baldwin
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <
>> REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dick,
>>> You percieve this as a problem. Why?
>>> I don't. The technology is interesting, but it doesn't mean not seeing
>>> someone's face is a problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>]
>>> On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:04 AM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics;
>>> seeingwithsound at freelists.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>>>
>>> Apologies to those who haven't seen all of the response postings due to
>>> cross listing of the original post and to whom this post probably won't
>>> make sense.
>>>
>>> If I were blind and could purchase all of the necessary hardware,
>>> including
>>> gigabytes of USB storage for a few hundred dollars, I wouldn't be 
>sitting
>>> around waiting for Microsoft, Google, Apple, or some other large 
>company
>>> to
>>> solve my problems. I would be working to solve those problems myself.
>>>
>>> If Bill Gates and Michael Dell had that attitude, there wouldn't be a
>>> Microsoft. IBM would "own" the computer market on a worldwide basis.
>>>
>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Carolyn MacLeod <
>>> Carolyn_MacLeod at ca.ibm.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> > Not sure if this is useful, and you probably already know, but
>>> Microsoft's
>>> > Windows Live Photo Gallery and Picasa and iPhoto (and some others) 
>have
>>> a
>>> > feature called face-tagging.
>>> > They work surprisingly well, although they need someone to identify
>>> photos
>>> > and confirm guesses, and they do make some ridiculous mistakes
>>> sometimes.
>>> > If you have Windows 7 or Vista, you may already have Windows Live 
>Photo
>>> > Gallery installed - to find out, open the Start menu and type 
>"Windows
>>> > Live Photo Gallery" in the Search field, then Enter.
>>> > If not, here's a link with a download button:
>>> >
>>> 
>http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/features/photo-gallery

>>> > Carolyn
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From:
>>> > Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
>>> > To:
>>> > BlindMath Mailing List <blindmath at nfbnet.org>,
>>> > seeingwithsound at freelists.org
>>> > Date:
>>> > 03/27/2012 11:05 PM
>>> > Subject:
>>> > [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>>> > Sent by:
>>> > blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Most of the math courses that I completed in public school and 
>college
>>> > mainly involved completely deterministic concepts such as finding
>>> unknown
>>> > in sets of algebraic equations, proving theorems in geometry, proving
>>> > identities in trigonometry, solving triangle problems using
>>> trigonometry,
>>> > differentiating functions, integrating functions, playing around with
>>> > solids of revolution, etc. They were all good exercises for the brain
>>> but
>>> > were not very close to real-world problems.
>>> >
>>> > When I made it into engineering college, the problems and their
>>> solutions
>>> > were closer to the real world but only barely so.
>>> >
>>> > When I completed my first engineering degree and went to work in the
>>> real
>>> > world, I learned very quickly that problems in the real world are far
>>> from
>>> > deterministics. In other words, there are very few problems in the 
>real
>>> > world that have deterministic solutions. Problems in the real world
>>> > usually
>>> > involve a mix of mathematics, statistics, physics, engineering, 
>computer
>>> > science, and other technologies, and there is rarely a single correct
>>> > solution for any problem.
>>> >
>>> > Furthermore, the solution to most problems requires the design and
>>> > implementation of complex mathematical algorithms, and those 
>algorithms
>>> > are
>>> > most commonly implemented using a computer of some sort. (In my 
>opinion,
>>> > every student that receives a technical degree should be required to
>>> learn
>>> > to program well in at least one programming language.)
>>> >
>>> > By now you must be wondering where this is all heading.
>>> >
>>> > I saw on TV today that shopping malls and large department stores are
>>> > installing electronic billboards that use facial recognition to 
>display
>>> > advertisements that are likely to be of interest to those persons who
>>> can
>>> > see the billboard.
>>> >
>>> > I have no idea what the facial recognition algorithm is for 
>categorizing
>>> > the viewers in a way that allows for a selection of appropriate
>>> > advertisements. However, this tells me that the algorithm doesn't
>>> require
>>> > a
>>> > supercomputer to implement. The algorithms must be implemented using
>>> > modestly priced computer hardware. Otherwise, they would be too
>>> expensive
>>> > to include in such billboards.
>>> >
>>> > This makes me wonder if it might be possible to use a small portable
>>> > computer to develop a system that will do facial recognition on 
>people
>>> > whose faces appear in the field of view of a miniature video camera
>>> > embedded in eyeglass frames and to speak information about those 
>people
>>> to
>>> > the wearer of the glasses.
>>> >
>>> > Science fiction? Maybe so and maybe not.
>>> >
>>> > Dr. Peter Meijer has demonstrated that it is possible to couple a 
>video
>>> > camera built into eyeglass frames with a small portable computer and 
>an
>>> > appropriate software program (The vOICe) and to create soundscapes 
>that
>>> > some blind users find very beneficial (see
>>> http://www.seeingwithsound.com/
>>> > )
>>> > as they move through the world.
>>> >
>>> > Not being blind, I can't imagine what it would be like to interact 
>with
>>> > other people that you can't see. However, it seems to me that it 
>would
>>> be
>>> > beneficial for a blind person to know something about another persons
>>> > before a conversation begins. Depending on capability, this could 
>range
>>> > all
>>> > the way from rudimentary information such as the probable sex and 
>likely
>>> > age of the person, to detailed information such as the identification 
>of
>>> > prior acquaintances by name.
>>> >
>>> > Perhaps it is time for a group of blind mathematicians, physicists,
>>> > engineers, statisticians, and computer scientists to band together to
>>> > produce such a system and to publish it as an open source
>>> > hardware/software
>>> > system.
>>> >
>>> > Food for thought,
>>> > Dick Baldwin
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>> >
>>> > Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>> > Austin Community College
>>> > (512) 223-4758
>>> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> > http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>
>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>> Austin Community College
>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> Austin Community College
>> (512) 223-4758
>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>>



>-- 
>Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>http://www.DickBaldwin.com

>Professor of Computer Information Technology
>Austin Community College
>(512) 223-4758
>mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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