[Blindmath] Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 21

Lewicki, Maureen mlewicki at bcsd.neric.org
Fri Feb 1 08:07:18 CST 2013


Vincent, I want you to know I am copying hour email and saving it for occasions when I have to try to articulate what a blind student experiences. Thank you for expressing it!

I have been a TVI for decades, and I have ALWAYS read tests to my students. I have only been asked once by a rather OCD teacher how he could know if I gave my student the answers. I looked directly in his eyes and said, " you know I did not give him the answers because I am a professional." he apologized.

Stick to your guns, and study and quote the disability act, which ensures equal and appropriate materials...stick to your guns.


Maureen Murphy Lewicki

The world is moved along, not only by the mighty shoves of its heroes, but also by the aggregate of tiny pushes of each honest worker.
Helen Keller



On Jan 31, 2013, at 5:47 PM, "vincent martin" <vmartin at mindspring.com> wrote:

> As a blind graduate student in a STEM field and having done rehabilitation
> engineering for the past twenty-four years, it is safe to say that unless
> they are giving you the answers, there is nothing they can do to give a
> blind a person an "unfair" advantage!  I have had this conversation with
> some educators and many non-educators and most finally realize how much more
> we have to know and do just to try and keep up to the normal workload.  I
> know some bllind graduate students who haven't taken a day, including the
> weekends, off in years because they know how easy it is to get behind.  I
> sometimes get lucky and find out what book we are using before the next
> semester.  I have routinely read the entire book, because the instructor
> hadn't created a syllabus yet.  Oh well if I read eight hundred pages and
> then we only use six chapters.  Hey, let's get all the "suggested" readings
> and read them anyway, because you just know there is something on the board
> or in some handout that you did not see that is important.  I just loved
> that Cognitive Psychology class with the 124 PDF files that were journal
> articles and scans from various books.  Over thirty were just images that
> had to be converted and at least half had trouble spots in them that I could
> not read.  
> 
> If they had to wait two or four weeks to get your books or three to five
> days to find out what that picture or image was on the PowerPoint, then
> maybe they wouldn't be so restrictive.  I love it when you can't use your
> assistive technology to take an exam, because you might have the ability to
> use it to solve a problem.  No Braille Note, well let's spend a crapload of
> money getting the exam for you in Braille.  Now let's wait a week for it to
> be transcribed and then graded.  With any luck, you might know what you made
> or what you did wrong in a week or so.  I am finally getting the school to
> get Chatty so I can easily transfer Mathematical equations and problems
> between my professor and I.  At least when I take the Ph. D qualifier, I
> will be in the same eight hour written portion and four hour verbal portion
> that all the other "fortunate" potential candidates have to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:01 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 21
> 
> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
>    blindmath at nfbnet.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> 
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Integrated Math Curriculum Accessible (Mary Woodyard)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:56:25 -0500
> From: "Mary Woodyard" <marywoodyard at comcast.net>
> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindmath] Integrated Math Curriculum Accessible
> Message-ID: <005e01cdff23$e2cc9910$a865cb30$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Thanks Rebecca  for your support.  I think using a human reader is fine
> also.  My son already has the use of a Human Reader and a Screen Reader in
> his IEP.  We have had several meetings recently regarding why the school
> wants to change from a human reader to a screen reader and the answer is
> that it is a District direction because some of the Math teachers are not
> comfortable with the human reader's ability to correctly read the Math.  We
> are in Georgia and there are constraints on what can be read and what
> cannot.  For instance, because his curriculum is spiraling - he has moved
> from the Arcs and Angles and circles inscribed into triangles that he was
> doing when I sent my first email and his class is now doing Graphs -
> specifically Piecewise Functions.
> 
> This Math skill has several kinds of brackets - an absolute value bracket, a
> ceiling bracket, a floor bracket and just regular parentheses.  The human
> reader is not allowed to differentiate between them.  What the school system
> is calling using a screen reader is actually having a human reader read the
> test into Kurzweil with the limitations of descriptions that our state
> mandates in the problems to reduce the chance of helping a student too much
> with voice inflection or error by human readers at the school level.  The
> school district is calling Kurzweil a screen reader - although technically
> it is not - it is a human reader reading into Kurzweil.
> 
> They are testing this today with a Summative test for my son.  He will,
> however, be taking the test in large print and using Kurzweil to read back
> any problem he needs more information on read back by Kurzweil - instead of
> a human.  He does have some Nemeth basic training - but from what I can
> gather - the problems that he is having in large print (the geometry with
> the arcs and angles) would also be a problem in braille.  In addition, then
> there would be a delay in getting the information transcribed both for
> homework for him and also for his teachers to give him feedback.  I do think
> the technology is there to help with this delay - however,  unless Braille
> could fix that arcs and angles problem - I am not sure if moving to Braille
> will be an immediate help for him.
> 
> Tactile graphics did help him and hopefully will continue to help.  The
> silliness with the school system is something none of us can fix.
> Hopefully the overwhelming task of trying to have someone at the district
> read back every test and quiz for him in the time frame that they need it
> will send them back to human readers quickly.  The district needs two weeks
> to turn a test around and usually the teachers don't write them that far in
> advance. My district writes their own curriculum - there is no book for this
> year as the district is moving to block Math for the future.  My son is the
> last grade using this spiraling curriculum.
> 
> The help I received from this forum did help me figure out what could or
> could not be done for him with respect to accessibility and I appreciate it.
> The problems he is having now are not technology or accessibility problems
> that you can help me with - it's just the normal bureaucracy of a school
> system.  I am working with my son's vision teacher and the state vision
> representative to work through it.  Thanks everyone for your help!  I
> personally think the human reader option is perfect for him when he needs it
> with Math or Science!  Its interesting to note that they are so
> uncomfortable with it.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:01 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 20
> 
> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
>    blindmath at nfbnet.org
> 
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>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
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>    blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: thoughts on a PIAF please (Lewicki, Maureen)
>   2. Re: Integrated Math Curriculum Accessible
>      (Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC))
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 13:37:38 +0000
> From: "Lewicki, Maureen" <mlewicki at bcsd.neric.org>
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>    <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] thoughts on a PIAF please
> Message-ID:
>    <AD0247C3A039BA4B87F37DD2B02CCCEF11387AA6 at HEX1.mail.neric.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I like this for the quick draws, and it is under Federal Quota, if you can
> use Federal Quota. I requires mylar sheets, but I often grab sheet protector
> sleeves from Staples, cut them open and use them.
> 
> http://shop.aph.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_DRAFTSMAN%20Tactile%20
> Drawing%20Board_1-08857-00P_10001_11051
> 
> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> Teacher of Visually Impaired
> Bethlehem Central School
> 332 Kenwood AvenueDelmar, NY 12054
> http://bethlehemschools.org
> (518) 439-7460
> Fax (518) 475-0092
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The real
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.  If a
> blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be
> reduced to a mere physical nuisance."Kenneth Jernigan
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Pielaet,
> Jon
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 2:50 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] thoughts on a PIAF please
> 
> The sensational blackboard looks like a neat tactile graphics slate for
> manual production. 
> 
> http://sensationalbooks.com/?wpsc-product=sensational-blackboard
> 
> 
> Jon Pielaet
> 
> Clark College
> Disability Support Services
> Assistive Technology and IT Accessibility Specialist
> 1933 Fort Vancouver Way
> Vancouver, WA 98663-3598
> (360) 992-2314
> (360) 992-2879 Fax
> (360) 991-0901 Video Phone
> jpielaet at clark.edu
> http://www.clark.edu/dss
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lewicki,
> Maureen
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:45 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] thoughts on a PIAF please
> 
> I am not familiar with sensational blackboard. It is something that can
> produce hardcopies?
> 
> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> Teacher of Visually Impaired
> Bethlehem Central Schools
> (518)439-7681
> "When we do the best that we can, we never know what miracle is wrought in
> our life, or in the life of another." Helen Keller
> ________________________________________
> From: Blindmath [blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Pickrell,
> Rebecca M (TASC) [REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 2:21 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] thoughts on a PIAF please
> 
> Why would this product be used when Sensational Blackboard could be used?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Opra,
> Lauren
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:46 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] thoughts on a PIAF please
> 
> I use a PIAF fairly regularly. I really like it because it allows me to do
> more with curved lines than the graphics program I use. I agree though, it
> is not exactly a "quick" way to create graphics unless you are using
> templates. If I really need to do something fast I usually use a tactile
> drawing board but the graphics are far less detailed. I like it though when
> I am in a pinch and something is better than nothing to get a concept
> across.
> 
> Lauren
> 
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Julie Balassa <jbalassa at valenciacollege.edu
>> wrote:
> 
>> We use it here and it's fantastic. I'm working on some tactile graphs 
>> right now. "Quickly" however may not be an applicable adjective - 
>> smile. If you have templates it saves a bunch of time as you can use 
>> bits and pieces of old Illustrator files to copy and paste into new ones.
>> 
>> jkb
>> 
>> Julie K. Balassa
>> Assistant Director, Office for Students with Disabilities Mail Code
>> 3-31
>> 701 N Econlockhatchee Trail
>> Orlando, FL 32825
>> office: building 5 suite 216
>> east: 407.582.2039
>> west: 407.582.1603
>> vp east: 407.374.1562
>> vp west: 407-992-8941
>> fax: 407.582.8908
>> jbalassa at valenciacollege.edu
>> 
>> Please note:
>> Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written 
>> communications to or from College employees regarding College business 
>> are public records, available to the public and media upon request.
>> Therefore, this e-mail communication may be subject to public 
>> disclosure.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Lewicki, Maureen
>> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 3:15 PM
>> To: SusanOsterhaus at tsbvi.edu; Blind Math list for those interested in 
>> mathematics
>> Subject: [Blindmath] thoughts on a PIAF please
>> 
>> Good Day! Is anyone using a PIAF to produce graphics quickly? Please 
>> let me know what you think of it. Thanks!
>> 
>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>> Teacher of Visually Impaired
>> Bethlehem Central Schools
>> (518)439-7681
>> "When we do the best that we can, we never know what miracle is 
>> wrought in our life, or in the life of another." Helen Keller 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Blindmath:
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>> nciacollege.edu
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:20:47 +0000
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>    <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Integrated Math Curriculum Accessible
> Message-ID: <AAE38548E198F64B8E345439B68CCC78331A6328 at TSEAMB02>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Nothing wrong with using a human reader. Tell the school to stuff it. Better
> yet, if he needs a human reader, then put that in his IEP.
> You may want to have him learn Braille, though if he doesn't have the
> sensitivity in his hands, that won't work. Still, it's worth a try.
> He can also take math in summer school.  I don't mean take the summer school
> the "bad" kids take but the optional one that kids use to get ahead in
> coursework. He'll be with teachers and students who want to be there, v.
> those that *have* to be there, and he'll have each day every day spent on
> the math of choice.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Woodyard
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:09 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Blindmath] Integrated Math Curriculum Accessible
> 
> Sorry for the confusion - I really do have several questions.  To begin
> with, my son is taking an Integrated Math Curriculum so he will do
> Statistics for 2-3 weeks, then switch to Geometry, then to Algebra, and then
> Graphing and keep rotating them.  Visually, he does fairly well with large
> print for the Algebra and Statistics.  His main accessibility problem with
> these types of problems is differentiating between characters - like "3" and
> "B" and "8".  Or "7" and "Z" and "2".  With the algebra in particular, it is
> hard for him to read the difference in the letters and numbers so he needs
> some of it read back.
> 
> The Geometry - particularly the Angle Segments and Arcs and when Triangles
> inscribe into Circles is where he really struggled this year.  His vision
> teacher did come in and introduce tactile graphics toward the end of the
> unit - and hopefully that will help him with Math 3 this next year.  He is
> stuck completing high school with an integrated Math Curriculum.  He needed
> quite a bit of information read back to him during the Geometry Unit and
> also needs information read back for the Graphing Unit they are doing now.
> 
> Although he has classwork and testing accommodation for both human and
> screen readers, the fact that he is using a human reader has raised alarm
> with someone within the school and they are not pleased he is using a human
> reader.  That is why I was wondering how complicated it would be to try and
> convert the PDFs that they teach from and his classwork is in to be read by
> a screen reader. His school writes their own curriculum from PDFs - they do
> not use a book.
> 
> The screen reader that he has installed on his notebook is Zoom Text,
> although he is not using it much right now. He uses an electronic text
> program called Kurzweil which is supposed to have added Math accessibility
> with its last release. However, Kurzweil does not read the Geometry or
> symbols with much accuracy.  If I need him to move to JAWS, to make the Math
> Type work, will it read the type of problems that I have attached here?  I
> think Kiran has told me it will not.
> 
> So I guess I am asking several questions,  Will Math Type work with Zoom
> Text, as well as JAWS?  Will Math Type read back Algebra like in your
> example?  Will Math Type read back Geometry like illustrated above?  Thanks
> for your help!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:01 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 8
> 
> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
>        blindmath at nfbnet.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: How to have a screen reader read back geometry        and
>      graphs? (Bente J. Casile)
>   2. Re: How to have a screen reader read back geometry        and
>      graphs? (Kiran)
>   3. Re: How to have a screen reader read back geometry and
>      graphs? (Neil Soiffer)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:40:20 +0000
> From: "Bente J. Casile" <bjcasile at waketech.edu>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>        <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back
>        geometry        and     graphs?
> Message-ID:
>        <EE04707A541692419FC4BB4CAD6EC1AAEF737B at MBX-05.waketech.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Mary,
> 
> Math Type or Scientific Notebook would work for you.  If you use Math Type
> it will read with JAWS and if you are putting his work in Braille Scientific
> Notebook works well.  You are correct that screen readers do not read
> graphics and the reason Math Type and Scientific Notebook are used is so the
> math is read correctly.  For example 3x+2 is very different from 3(x+2).
> These programs make sure the math is read and put into braille correctly.
> Worksheets are tough.  If there is any way the school could get Math Type
> then the teacher could use them to create the work and it would be
> accessible for your 10th grader.  As far as reading graphs goes,  if your
> son is not provided a tactile graphic then he would require an alternative
> text description of the graphic.  There is also something called sensational
> blackboard.  It allows the teacher to draw a quick graph on the spot for
> your son.  It can be used with paper and pencil.  If you google it I think
> you will find that it is $29.95 so not bad considering what VI products go
> for these days. I hope this helps.
> 
> Bente J. Casile
> Math Learning Specialist
> Wake Tech Community College
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Woodyard
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:35 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back geometry and
> graphs?
> 
> 
> I am the parent of a Visually impaired 10th grader and I am curious as to
> how I could enable a screen reader to read the typed of information in this
> Math Worksheet that my son used in class.
> 
> I have been reading this website all summer and from what I understand -
> screen readers in general don't read graphics so just using a screen reader
> like Zoom Text or JAWS would not work here.
> 
> I think I would need to use LaTex or MathType to convert these graphics into
> a format that the screen reader could then read.  Is this correct?  Then
> would I need to use Infinity Reader or could Zoom Text or JAWS read it?
> 
> I am asking these questions because some teachers in my son's school are
> questioning why he needs a human reader to clarify some of the Math problems
> for him.  He has ROP, Glaucoma and is aphakik - he has partial vision in one
> eye only - but can use Large Print quite well for a lot of things.  Algebra
> and Geometry he needs someone reading some things back to him so he does not
> confuse the letters and symbols.
> 
> What is the best way to accomplish having a screen reader read back the
> geometry and graphs to him instead of a human reader?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:01 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
> 
> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
>        blindmath at nfbnet.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Pranav Lal)
>   2. Re: Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Kiran)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:09:25 +0530
> From: "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
> Message-ID: <005901cdf25c$9433ace0$bc9b06a0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible SVG with
> a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
> 
> Note:
> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me know.
> 
> Pranav
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:20:00 +0530
> From: Kiran <Kiran at persiontechnologies.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>        <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
> Message-ID:
>        <5D497E56-6C30-4888-8E38-CBCE249EA903 at persiontechnologies.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi pranav,
> 
> I guess there is not any direct way to do so, but there certainly is a
> workaround, we can not import an accessible svg file in to a word processor
> that may help us in converting it to daisy but we may put a link to the svg
> file and launch the svg file in a browser that shall be then accessed via
> description.
> 
> Shall have a word with you on a call shortly.
> 
> 
> 
> Kiran S Deshpande
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DISCLAIMER:-
> 
> 
> This e-mail message (including any attachment) is intended only for the
> personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is confidential
> and may be legally privileged.  If you are not an intended recipient, you
> may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this
> communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete
> the original message.
> 
> Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author
> only. Furthermore, this message (including any attachment) does not create
> any legally binding rights or obligations whatsoever, which may only be
> created by the exchange of hard copy documents signed by a duly authorized
> representative of the company If Official or other wise signed by the Author
> on Valid Documents.
> 
> On 14-Jan-2013, at 7:09 PM, "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible 
>> SVG with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
>> 
>> Note:
>> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me know.
>> 
>> Pranav
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kiran%40persion
>> technologies.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
> ****************************************
> Email correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North
> Carolina Public Records law and may be disclosed to third parties by an
> authorized state official (NCGS. ch. 132). Student educational records are
> subject to FERPA.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 01:42:56 +0530
> From: Kiran <Kiran at persiontechnologies.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>        <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back
>        geometry        and     graphs?
> Message-ID:
>        <E97441F5-40D4-494A-AE91-5E77C4A980D6 at persiontechnologies.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hey,
> 
> Mary has attached a PDF file along with the mail. It is impossible to
> comprehend those images. The attachment shows various geometries that are a
> print and one has to find angles in different geometries etc, hence alt text
> won't work in this context.
> 
> Also she has asked for two different questions, but the subject line makes
> it little confusing. She has sought answers for geometries and algebra she
> has referred latex usage here. Sensational keyboard may not be useful in
> comprehending the shape of geometries asked in an examination like she has
> attached for our reference but as suggested shall surely help in
> understanding shapes.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kiran S Deshpande
> 
> Director Innovatin & Research
> Innovation Unit,
> Persion technologies pvt ltd.
> Pune
> 
> 
> DISCLAIMER:-
> 
> 
> This e-mail message (including any attachment) is intended only for the
> personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is confidential
> and may be legally privileged.  If you are not an intended recipient, you
> may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this
> communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete
> the original message.
> 
> Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author
> only. Furthermore, this message (including any attachment) does not create
> any legally binding rights or obligations whatsoever, which may only be
> created by the exchange of hard copy documents signed by a duly authorized
> representative of the company If Official or other wise signed by the Author
> on Valid Documents.
> 
> On 15-Jan-2013, at 1:10 AM, "Bente J. Casile" <bjcasile at waketech.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Mary,
>> 
>> Math Type or Scientific Notebook would work for you.  If you use Math 
>> Type it will read with JAWS and if you are putting his work in Braille 
>> Scientific Notebook works well.  You are correct that screen readers 
>> do not read graphics and the reason Math Type and Scientific Notebook 
>> are used is so the math is read correctly.  For example 3x+2 is very 
>> different from 3(x+2).  These programs make sure the math is read and 
>> put into braille correctly.  Worksheets are tough.  If there is any 
>> way the school could get Math Type then the teacher could use them to 
>> create the work and it would be accessible for your 10th grader.  As 
>> far as reading graphs goes,  if your son is not provided a tactile 
>> graphic then he would require an alternative text description of the 
>> graphic.  There is also something called sensational blackboard.  It 
>> allows the teacher to draw a quick graph on the spot for your son.  It 
>> can be used with paper and pencil.  If you google it I think you will 
>> find that it is $2
>> 9.95 so not bad considering what VI products go for these days. I hope
> this helps.
>> 
>> Bente J. Casile
>> Math Learning Specialist
>> Wake Tech Community College
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Mary Woodyard
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:35 PM
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back geometry 
>> and
> graphs?
>> 
>> 
>> I am the parent of a Visually impaired 10th grader and I am curious as 
>> to
> how I could enable a screen reader to read the typed of information in this
> Math Worksheet that my son used in class.
>> 
>> I have been reading this website all summer and from what I understand
>> -
> screen readers in general don't read graphics so just using a screen reader
> like Zoom Text or JAWS would not work here.
>> 
>> I think I would need to use LaTex or MathType to convert these 
>> graphics
> into a format that the screen reader could then read.  Is this correct?
> Then would I need to use Infinity Reader or could Zoom Text or JAWS read it?
>> 
>> I am asking these questions because some teachers in my son's school 
>> are
> questioning why he needs a human reader to clarify some of the Math problems
> for him.  He has ROP, Glaucoma and is aphakik - he has partial vision in one
> eye only - but can use Large Print quite well for a lot of things.  Algebra
> and Geometry he needs someone reading some things back to him so he does not
> confuse the letters and symbols.
>> 
>> What is the best way to accomplish having a screen reader read back 
>> the
> geometry and graphs to him instead of a human reader?
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:01 PM
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
>> 
>> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
>>       blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>       http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>       blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>       blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
>> than
>> "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Pranav Lal)
>>  2. Re: Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Kiran)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:09:25 +0530
>> From: "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
>> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
>> Message-ID: <005901cdf25c$9433ace0$bc9b06a0$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible 
>> SVG
> with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
>> 
>> Note:
>> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me know.
>> 
>> Pranav
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:20:00 +0530
>> From: Kiran <Kiran at persiontechnologies.com>
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>       <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
>> Message-ID:
>>       <5D497E56-6C30-4888-8E38-CBCE249EA903 at persiontechnologies.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Hi pranav,
>> 
>> I guess there is not any direct way to do so, but there certainly is a
> workaround, we can not import an accessible svg file in to a word processor
> that may help us in converting it to daisy but we may put a link to the svg
> file and launch the svg file in a browser that shall be then accessed via
> description.
>> 
>> Shall have a word with you on a call shortly.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kiran S Deshpande
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> DISCLAIMER:-
>> 
>> 
>> This e-mail message (including any attachment) is intended only for 
>> the
> personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is confidential
> and may be legally privileged.  If you are not an intended recipient, you
> may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this
> communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete
> the original message.
>> 
>> Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the 
>> author
> only. Furthermore, this message (including any attachment) does not create
> any legally binding rights or obligations whatsoever, which may only be
> created by the exchange of hard copy documents signed by a duly authorized
> representative of the company If Official or other wise signed by the Author
> on Valid Documents.
>> 
>> On 14-Jan-2013, at 7:09 PM, "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible 
>>> SVG with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
>>> 
>>> Note:
>>> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me
> know.
>>> 
>>> Pranav
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kiran%40persio
>>> n
>>> technologies.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
>> ****************************************
>> Email correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the 
>> North
> Carolina Public Records law and may be disclosed to third parties by an
> authorized state official (NCGS. ch. 132). Student educational records are
> subject to FERPA.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kiran%40persion
>> technologies.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:10:21 -0800
> From: Neil Soiffer <NeilS at dessci.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>        <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back
>        geometry and    graphs?
> Message-ID:
>        <CAESRWkB81jp=JNqm84nAKAaSbTokNKr_DHZEFYG2FFpNmC6Zaw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Just a small clarification: you can use MathType+Word and export that to a
> web page.  Then JAWS+IE+MathPlayer will read that.  However, at the moment,
> you need to export the word doc to a web page.  That will change this year.
> Stay tuned...
> 
> Neil Soiffer
> Senior Scientist
> Design Science, Inc.
> www.dessci.com
> ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor ~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Bente J. Casile
> <bjcasile at waketech.edu>wrote:
> 
>> Mary,
>> 
>> Math Type or Scientific Notebook would work for you.  If you use Math 
>> Type it will read with JAWS and if you are putting his work in Braille 
>> Scientific Notebook works well.  You are correct that screen readers 
>> do not read graphics and the reason Math Type and Scientific Notebook 
>> are used is so the math is read correctly.  For example 3x+2 is very 
>> different from 3(x+2).  These programs make sure the math is read and 
>> put into braille correctly.  Worksheets are tough.  If there is any 
>> way the school could get Math Type then the teacher could use them to 
>> create the work and it would be accessible for your 10th grader.  As 
>> far as reading graphs goes,  if your son is not provided a tactile 
>> graphic then he would require an alternative text description of the 
>> graphic.  There is also something called sensational blackboard.  It 
>> allows the teacher to draw a quick graph on the spot for your son.  It 
>> can be used with paper and pencil.  If you google it I think you will 
>> find that it is $29.95 so not bad considering what VI products go for
> these days. I hope this helps.
>> 
>> Bente J. Casile
>> Math Learning Specialist
>> Wake Tech Community College
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Mary Woodyard
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:35 PM
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back geometry 
>> and graphs?
>> 
>> 
>> I am the parent of a Visually impaired 10th grader and I am curious as 
>> to how I could enable a screen reader to read the typed of information 
>> in this Math Worksheet that my son used in class.
>> 
>> I have been reading this website all summer and from what I understand
>> - screen readers in general don't read graphics so just using a screen 
>> reader like Zoom Text or JAWS would not work here.
>> 
>> I think I would need to use LaTex or MathType to convert these 
>> graphics into a format that the screen reader could then read.  Is 
>> this
> correct?
>> Then would I need to use Infinity Reader or could Zoom Text or JAWS 
>> read it?
>> 
>> I am asking these questions because some teachers in my son's school 
>> are questioning why he needs a human reader to clarify some of the 
>> Math problems for him.  He has ROP, Glaucoma and is aphakik - he has 
>> partial vision in one eye only - but can use Large Print quite well 
>> for a lot of things.  Algebra and Geometry he needs someone reading 
>> some things back to him so he does not confuse the letters and symbols.
>> 
>> What is the best way to accomplish having a screen reader read back 
>> the geometry and graphs to him instead of a human reader?
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:01 PM
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
>> 
>> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
>>        blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>        http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>        blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>        blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
>> than
>> "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Pranav Lal)
>>   2. Re: Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Kiran)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:09:25 +0530
>> From: "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
>> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
>> Message-ID: <005901cdf25c$9433ace0$bc9b06a0$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible 
>> SVG with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
>> 
>> Note:
>> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me know.
>> 
>> Pranav
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:20:00 +0530
>> From: Kiran <Kiran at persiontechnologies.com>
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>        <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
>> Message-ID:
>>        <5D497E56-6C30-4888-8E38-CBCE249EA903 at persiontechnologies.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Hi pranav,
>> 
>> I guess there is not any direct way to do so, but there certainly is a 
>> workaround, we can not import an accessible svg file in to a word 
>> processor that may help us in converting it to daisy but we may put a 
>> link to the svg file and launch the svg file in a browser that shall 
>> be then accessed via description.
>> 
>> Shall have a word with you on a call shortly.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kiran S Deshpande
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> DISCLAIMER:-
>> 
>> 
>> This e-mail message (including any attachment) is intended only for 
>> the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is 
>> confidential and may be legally privileged.  If you are not an 
>> intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this 
>> message. If you have received this communication in error, please 
>> notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message.
>> 
>> Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the 
>> author only. Furthermore, this message (including any attachment) does 
>> not create any legally binding rights or obligations whatsoever, which 
>> may only be created by the exchange of hard copy documents signed by a 
>> duly authorized representative of the company If Official or other 
>> wise signed by the Author on Valid Documents.
>> 
>> On 14-Jan-2013, at 7:09 PM, "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible 
>>> SVG with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
>>> 
>>> Note:
>>> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me
>> know.
>>> 
>>> Pranav
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>> Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kiran%40persi
>>> on
>>> technologies.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
>> ****************************************
>> Email correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the 
>> North Carolina Public Records law and may be disclosed to third 
>> parties by an authorized state official (NCGS. ch. 132). Student 
>> educational records are subject to FERPA.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neils%40dessci.
>> com
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 8
> ****************************************
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> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 20
> *****************************************
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
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> Blindmath mailing list
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> ------------------------------
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> *****************************************
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