[Blindmath] Minitab

Mon Jun 3 23:38:56 UTC 2013

Yes Jonathon the information I found online is your site.  I've come
across a few of your articles.  I just finished reading one on
BrailleR which sounds interesting and something I'd like to try to see
if it could work.  In a powerpoint presentation I read it said this
was the best system to use?  Thanks for your assistance!

On 6/3/13, Jonathan Godfrey <a.j.godfrey at massey.ac.nz> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> It's been a holiday weekend here and I couldn't send email while I was
> away.
> Minitab is one statistical package I do need to know a lot about and still
> must even though it is no longer accessible for me.
>
> I'm not sure if it's my material on the web Justin is referring to but I
> have documented my experiences with Minitab and other statistics software
> at:
> http://r-resources.massey.ac.nz/statsoftware/
>
>
> The Minitab part of that page says:
> Minitab
> I have used versions 8.2, 10.1, 11, 12.2.1, 13.3, 14,15, and 16 of Minitab.
> The last version of Minitab that was accessible was version 13. This
> version
> is now well out of date and will not function on more recent versions of
> Windows.
>
> Version 14 use a different worksheet for data which was not accessible
> although this is not so much of a problem once data is successfully
> imported. Students needing to use Minitab might succeed using version 14 if
> data is given in Minitab format. Another issue is that some dialogue boxes
> new to this version were not accessible. This includes the design of
> experiments and graph creation dialogues.
>
> Versions 15 and 16 have been altered to improve the visual experience of
> the
> sighted user. Menu items that have no relevance at the specific time that a
> user pulls up that menu are greyed out. This causes screen readers grief
> and
> the wrong item is read aloud in the majority of situations. I have used
> both
> of these versions (unwillingly) to create material similar to that created
> by my students, but my ability to do this is heavily reliant on my memory
> of
> the menus and dialogue boxes built up from previous versions of Minitab.
>
> Use of the command language of Minitab does remain an option. I started
> working this way in version 8.2 (for DOS) in 1995 while my sighted
> classmates were using a windows version (10.1 I think). My reason for using
> 8.2 was not a Minitab issue but was due to the inability of blind people to
> successfully work with the Windows operating system prior to Windows 95.
>
> The command syntax is not as intuitive as other languages and it is
> difficult to find people who are comfortable using the command language
> today.
>
> Last version tested: 16
>
> <end of section>
>
> My conclusion is that the blind student who feels that Minitab is the
> option
> they must follow is asking for a lot of extra work because their classmates
> won't be able to help, the staff might not be able to help, and Minitab
> Inc.
> isn't helping either.
>
> My advice to anyone contemplating use of Minitab is that they should ask
> their classmates to turn on the display of commands in the session window.
> Minitab's menus just create code in the background that is then passed into
> the engine. The code can all be typed out (albeit painfully) but it is
> achievable. You can save the commands in a text file and run the text files
> but the effort in learning the syntax etc. required for Minitab will exceed
> the effort required to do the same work in a more natural language.
>
> The only shortcut on offer is that the vast majority of commands printed
> need not be typed out in full. For any main command such as "regress" for
> example, you only need to type four letters "regr". It doesn't save much
> but
> every little bit helps.
>
> Sorry, I do not have any accessible information about the Minitab commands
> that I used to type out as that was over 15 years ago and life moved on to
> an accessible Minitab (temporarily).
>
> I'm not sure where to get a version 12 copy either. My one was a university
> licence based copy which became unusable when the licence system changed
> over when my colleagues moved from version 14 to 15. The old licence system
> was very easily cracked so Minitab change it. This made my crackable
> version
> useless for me so I tossed it out years ago.
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin
> Young
> Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 5:27 a.m.
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] MiniTab
>
> Yes that would definitely be interesting to find out.  I've never used this
> software before now and don't know personally how older versions were
> accessibility wise, but from what I've read online they were better to use
> with screen readers than the current versions.  Perhaps you have to
> activate
> the accessibility portion?  If you do, I don't have a clue how that's done.
> Just throwing an idea out there.
>
> On 6/3/13, Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com> wrote:
>> It certainly was inaccessible when I was using it last year and people
>> said it was accessible to an extent in version 12, so it seems like
>> they did break accessibility.
>>
>> If they are claiming it is accessible then it might be worth
>> contacting them to find out how to make it accessible.
>>
>> Michael Whapples
>> On 03/06/2013 14:20, Paul Chapin wrote:
>>> Am I to understand from this that they managed to take an accessible
>>> product and make it inaccessible?  They still claim to be 508
>>> compliant but they don't appear to make the VPAT available on the web.
>>>
>>> Paul Chapin
>>> Academic Technology Specialist
>>> Amherst College
>>> X2144
>>>
>>> Amherst College IT staff will never ask for your password, including
>>> by email. Any email asking for any password or username is almost
>>> certainly bogus. Never click on a link in an email to a site that
>>> requires a login as the link may be bogus. Type in the address
>>> yourself. Please keep your passwords private to protect yourself and the
> security of our network.
>>>
>>> From: Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com<mailto:jty727 at gmail.com>>
>>> Reply-To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
>>> Date: Sunday, June 2, 2013 3:54 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] MiniTab
>>>
>>> Is there anywhere to find MiniTab version 12?
>>>
>>> On 6/2/13, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com<mailto:jty727 at gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> I think we might talk about that at some point.  Thanks for your
>>> help!:)
>>>
>>> On 6/2/13, Michael Whapples
>>> <mwhapples at aim.com<mailto:mwhapples at aim.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> The plugin I referred to is a plugin for the statistics package
>>> called R http://www.r-project.org and was to produce the graphs for
>>> statistical process control (SPC). Other than minitab can do SPC and
>>> so can the plugin, there is no relationship between the two (IE. the
>>> one does not provide an interface for the other, they are purely
>>> alternative software for doing SPC).
>>>
>>> If SPC is a topic you will be covering then I can look back at my
>>> work to remind myself what the R plugin is called and where it can be
>>> obtained from.
>>>
>>> Michael Whapples
>>> On 02/06/2013 00:23, Justin Young wrote:
>>> Thanks for the feedback.  Where/how do you get this "plug-in"?
>>> Thanks so much!
>>>
>>> On 6/1/13, Michael Whapples
>>> <mwhapples at aim.com<mailto:mwhapples at aim.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> It was about a year ago, or 18 months, I was on a course where
>>> minitab was used as part of the course. You are correct about the
>>> accessibility (I think it was version 12 which was the last accessible
> version).
>>> However my university was unable to get hold of version 12, however
>>> they were agreeable for me to use other software for the tasks. May
>>> be something similar could be done in your case.
>>>
>>> You probably can find other software for the tasks you would need to
>>> undertake. What the alternative software is might depend a bit on
>>> what precisely needs to be done. In my case I ended up using R and a
>>> plugin, however R may not be the best option for everything.
>>> Sometimes for simpler things even excel can be enough.
>>>
>>>     From what I have heard, minitab 12 was usable with a screen
>>> reader but I have not had any practical experience and only know what
>>> others have told me.
>>>
>>> I feel this has not been too specific, but I would imagine if you
>>> went down the route of using other tools then there would be people
>>> who would be willing to help you learn how to use it for the tasks
>>> you need to perform. Feel free to ask questions on what accessible
>>> tools may be good for certain tasks.
>>>
>>> Michael Whapples
>>> On 01/06/2013 20:50, Justin Young wrote:
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> My name is Justin Young and I'm a blind student currently taking an
>>> intro stats course which is a prerequesit for a master's program that
>>> I'll be starting in the Fall.  I just subscribed officially to this
>>> list today, but before I did I tried sending a message so not sure if
>>> that message will be sent as well.  If it is, I apologize for the
>>> double posting.  My course is using a program called MiniTab 16 and
>>> I've never used it before.  I tried playing with the program that I
>>> installed on my computer and its not really fun to play with, haha!
>>> I came across a thread via google from this list on this subject and
>>> wanted to ask a few questions.  I believe the last version accessible
>>> to screen readers was version 12 or 13?  How many on this list have
>>> heard of it or have used this program?  Any suggestions, advice,
>>> comments you have are greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Justin Young
>>>
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>>
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