[Blindmath] LaTeX

Thu Jun 13 22:04:16 UTC 2013

Yes I agree with what has been said about tools such as pdflatex working 
well, they are reliable enough one can almost always assume it has 
produced correct output for the code which was input. However the big 
problem is was the LaTeX source correct for what the author wanted? I 
actually put potential problems into three categories: Invalid code 
which will not compile and the LaTeX tools will give an error, LaTeX 
code which is valid but has problems the compiler knows will be giving 
poor output with the compiler giving a warning and valid LaTeX code 
where the user did not fully understand what the LaTeX source code will do.

The first of these is easiest to spot, normally pdflatex or other 
compilers will stop requiring input from the user or if it does exit 
then you will know it failed as no PDF will be created. Also some 
editors might pick up on some of these errors and can take you to the 
location of the error in the source document.

The hardest thing with errors is sometimes knowing where it came from, 
LaTeX might only pick up on the error much further on in the document 
than where the mistake was made (eg. if you forget to use a closing 
brace it might get to the end of the document before realising there is 
a problem). My advice would be to be careful while writing the LaTeX, if 
starting an environment put the end environment in at the same time and 
write between the two (some editors can do this automatically for you). 
Should errors still get in (they probably will) it can also be useful to 
keep compiling the LaTeX frequently, then you know only a small amount 
has been added since the last successful compile and so know if an error 
is there it must be in the small amount added.

Catching warnings is harder, as I said the document will actually 
compile (eg. if you write a long equation but do not put in the line 
breaks so that it goes on multiple lines you may get a box over flow 
warning which alerts you the equation will fall off the page). My best 
advice is just look through the output of pdflatex checking for these. I 
know output from pdflatex can be quite a lot, some editors I think can 
also pick out warnings and give them in a list.

The sort where the LaTeX source code does not do what the user thought 
it did is probably the hardest and one I have not really found a good 
solution to do independently. Some examples which have caught me out: In 
PGF/TikZ I did not realise that when drawing a line from a circle it 
would start at the centre of the circle. Another one was where I tried 
to include Python source code in the document (to show readers python 
source code), I got mixed up on which environments would preserve spaces 
as it is important for python code. I think in both cases I only found 
out by asking someone to give the documents a visual check. As one 
learns LaTeX these problems should become fewer but you probably will 
from time to time encounter one when you need to do something different. 
You possibly also will have ideas where there may be these sorts of 
problems, or at least know where visual appearance is most important, 
and so could go into more detail with the sighted person on those 
particular parts of the document and possibly skip other parts.

Michael Whapples
On 13/06/2013 19:31, Neil Soiffer wrote:
> Just so there is no misunderstanding, I'm 100% behind most people's
> suggestion that learning LaTeX for math is a good idea.  Any mainstream
> LaTeX converter such as pdftex will do the conversion properly.
>
> But, using LaTex has one really big problem if you are blind -- you'll
> never know if you got it "right" or not.  It is very easy, even for
> experienced TeX users to make a typo and that can result in either fatal
> errors (you probably would get an error message about that) or meaningful
> errors such as no exponent (missing "^") or wrong chars in the exponent.
>   Without visually "proofing" the answer, you don't know if what you typed
> is right.  I suppose converting to MathML and then listening to or
> brailling the convert result are ways to check whether you entered it
> correctly.  Others on the list like Michael probably have developed useful
> methods to checking what you typed.  I'm sure they join the discussion with
> their suggestions.
>
> Neil Soiffer
> Senior Scientist
> Design Science, Inc.
> www.dessci.com
> ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor ~
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Paul Chapin <pdchapin at amherst.edu> wrote:
>
>> There are several Latex to Mathml conversion programs out there and it
>> would be interesting to see what people's experiences with them are, but if
>> Shalini is preparing her material in Latex, wouldn't it be best if she did
>> all her editing and proofing on the Latex side?  She could then convert to
>> a pdf and send that to the instructor. How comfortable are we with
>> depending of the Latex to pdf conversion being correct?
>>
>> Paul Chapin
>> Academic Technology Specialist
>> Amherst College
>> X2144
>>
>> Amherst College IT staff will never ask for your password, including by
>> email. Any email asking for any password or username is almost certainly
>> bogus. Never click on a link in an email to a site that requires a login as
>> the link may be bogus. Type in the address yourself. Please keep your
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>>
>> From: Shalini Menon <shalini1394 at gmail.com<mailto:shalini1394 at gmail.com>>
>> Reply-To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
>> Date: Thursday, June 13, 2013 12:55 PM
>> To: "jtblas at hotmail.com<mailto:jtblas at hotmail.com>" <jtblas at hotmail.com
>> <mailto:jtblas at hotmail.com>>, Blind Math list for those interested in
>> mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] LaTeX
>>
>> Thank you.
>> How do you convert LaTeX to MathML?
>>
>> Shalini
>>
>> On 6/13/13, Jose Tamayo <jtblas at hotmail.com<mailto:jtblas at hotmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> Well, let's check if the LaTeX - Access projectis further along.  IT
>> promises to provide JAWS access to LaTeX through any of the standard
>> windows
>> applications or even Adobe reader.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jose Tamayo
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Rasmussen, Lloyd
>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 12:19 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] LaTeX
>>
>> There is nothing you can do with a screen reader and Adobe Reader to make
>> PDF math readable.  You either have to learn LaTeX syntax or convert the
>> expressions to MathML.
>>
>> Lloyd Rasmussen, Senior Project Engineer National Library Service for the
>> Blind and Physically Handicapped
>> Library of Congress   202-707-0535
>> http://www.loc.gov/nls
>> The preceding opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of
>> the Library of Congress, NLS.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shalini
>> Menon
>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 11:12 AM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] LaTeX
>>
>> Thanks a lot Jonathan.
>> I have another question. I have been able to write out Math equations in
>> LaTeX, but Jaws isn't able to read it very well when I convert it to a PDF
>> document. Do I need to convert the LaTeX document to MathML and then read
>> it
>> with Math player, or do I need to make changes to Jaws settings?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shalini
>> ...
>>
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