[Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille

Michael Whapples mwhapples at aim.com
Mon Sep 16 10:27:42 UTC 2013 

While not an area I know a lot about, I would say there would be no 
reason why people could not club together to form a group for converting 
documents to an accessible form. Whether publishers or universities 
would be willing to pay or accept such an arrangement (they can be very 
cautious over who has what type of copy), might be another matter, you 
would most likely to have very strict agreements on how the books would 
be handled to even stand a chance of it being acceptable.

The above is very much just a gut feeling of what I have picked up, one 
would need to certainly research it further if even considering such an 
option.

Michael Whapples
On 16/09/2013 09:38, I. C. Bray wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Is there any means by which NFB members could join together and form a
> publishing company whereby we accept materials and products and produce the
> accessible materials for the originating manufacturers?
> As an example,  Say NFB-Media were to either hire or contract organizations
> who already produce accessible materials specifically for the blind and
> would be paid by the Manufacturers for doing it for them?
> This way, we the blind consumers are directly producing what we need.  Our
> own standards of accessability are met, Companies are given proven,
> accessible materials to distribute as needed, and the NFB-Publishing are
> granted royalty for the distribution of said working / proven materials, and
> Manufacturers  are able to concentrate on the functionality while we make
> sure to communicate it appropriately.
>
> I mean, perhaps I am dreaming here, but is that really too much to manage?
>
> Rather than constantly be inopposition, be an active means to a solution.
>
> Ok... now... discuss.
>
> Respectfully,
> Ian  C. Bray
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 3:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
>
>
> :I am not sure I want to encourage just debate about why, after all
> : action would be better.
> :
> : One thing which is slightly shocking, certainly concerning is that the
> : Coalition of e-reader manufacturers have sought a waiver from the FCC to
> : be exempt from the accessibility requirements of the Communications and
> : Video Accessibility Act (http://techpolicy.acm.org/blog/?p=3177). I
> : think we can all draw conclusions from this...
> :
> : I understand various organisations, including the NFB, have provided
> : comments to the FCC.
> :
> : We all need to appreciate that math accessibility for the blind is
> : normally only a small concern out of many for any individual company
> : involved in making technical documents accessible and that for a good
> : solution it will require multiple companies to cooperate. As an example,
> : just to read a PDF on your computer, it requires the PDF reader (eg.
> : Adobe reader) to be made accessible, but that will require suitable
> : support in the accessibility API of the platform it is run on (most
> : likely Windows, so some support from Microsoft), and then the screen
> : reader would need to support the math accessibility, and then this all
> : will only work if the provider of the PDF document actually bothers to
> : tag the document suitably. This is not to say math accessibility is not
> : important, but rather its not necessarily at the top of their lists of
> : priorities and we all probably have a responsibility to remind them that
> : math accessibility is important and that it might be a deciding factor
> : in your purchasing of software.
> :
> : May be as individuals we might have little affect, but if colleges and
> : universities are faced with needing to make their courses accessible to
> : us as individuals, then their purchasing decisions may be affected and
> : then that might be something significant to some of these
> : manufacturers/publishers.
> :
> : Michael Whapples
> : On 16/09/2013 00:06, sabra1023 wrote:
> : > These books can be made accessible in a digital format for a lot cheaper
> then a hardcopy transcription, and maybe the publishers even have it the
> books and an accessible format. However, if you try to get the book
> digitally from them, they will give you a PDF, which you cannot fully
> access. I think that we are having these access issues because a big portion
> of the cited population believes that blind people have no right to expect
> success and Matt. I keep hearing all the time that math is just too visual
> and that the best blind people can expect is to learn basic algebra, but my
> experience with Matt has shown me that math and itself isn't visual. Sighted
> people might feel the most comfortable with a visual representation, but
> that in no way means the subject itself is visual. Also, I've known plenty
> of blind people who went way past calculus and use their skills in
> engineering and computer science. If publishers thought about accessibility
> from the beginning, it wouldn't be extremely difficult or costly to make
> sure that blind people as well as other populations can have access to math
> electronic text.
> : >
> : > On Sep 15, 2013, at 11:49 AM, Mike Jolls <mrspock56 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> : >
> : >> Does your software also back-translate it from Nemeth back to standard
> English so that a teacher can get the completed homework from the student,
> open it up inWord or some other standard application, and read it in symbols
> they understand as a sighted person?
> : >>
> : >>
> : >>> From: pmw at mega-data.com
> : >>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> : >>> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:20:59 -0400
> : >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
> : >>>
> : >>> Getting the diagrams in tactile form (using encapsulated "swell"
> paper) is a great help in math.  I have prepared tactile diagrams for
> several VI students that I work with, and they have found the diagrams to be
> extremely helpful.  I put a small amount of Braille on the diagrams (just
> enough to be able to create a separate legend with more information about
> the diagram).
> : >>>
> : >>> Re writing your math homework:  I am currently working on some
> software that would allow you to create and edit your math homework in
> Nemeth Braille.  It's not quite ready for testing yet, however.  I will make
> an announcement when it is ready, because I will be looking for students in
> math or math-intensive science courses to test this software.
> : >>>
> : >>>
> : >>> -----Original Message-----
> : >>> From: sabra1023 [mailto:sabra1023 at gmail.com]
> : >>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 2:18 AM
> : >>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> : >>> Cc: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> : >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
> : >>>
> : >>> All I know is that I write my math homework in Microsoft Word. I have
> to be reading with a braille display, and everything needs to be linear, not
> multidimensional. Also, my brain can't think correctly if I have to work
> from right to left. I don't know if those math needs are common among blind
> people, but you could try them to see if it helps. Oh, and another thing is
> that it might help to get text descriptions of diagrams and represent things
> algebraically rather then graphically as much as possible.
> : >>>
> : >>> On Sep 15, 2013, at 1:03 AM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
> : >>>
> : >>>> Neil,
> : >>>> Well, I am going to need to use something, and I have been putting
> off
> : >>>> deciding until I get some idea what's out there and what makes sence
> for me.
> : >>>> I don't want to have to learn 5 new programs and try to keep the
> : >>>> command & control sets seperate...
> : >>>> I've been reading the BlindMath ListServ and hearing the difficulties
> : >>>> and am just hoping I collect enough info and various ways to approach
> : >>>> my own Math, Science, and Teaching needs now that I'm blind.
> : >>>>
> : >>>> OH, Side note question.
> : >>>> Is the Blind Science listserv not active??  I Joined the list, and do
> : >>>> not think I got any replies...
> : >>>>
> : >>>> Ian
> : >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> : >>>> From: "Neil Soiffer" <NeilS at dessci.com>
> : >>>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> : >>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> : >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 1:52 AM
> : >>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
> : >>>>
> : >>>>
> : >>>> : You can also use MathType with Word and then use Duxbury to
> : >>>> translate to
> : >>>> : Nemeth.  Like Scientific notebook, with MathType you just type the
> : >>>> math in
> : >>>> : using an easy math editor. If you are a familiar with Word, it is
> : >>>> probably
> : >>>> : a better option than getting Scientific Notebook and having to
> learn that.
> : >>>> : MathType is just a math editor and so is a lot cheaper than
> : >>>> Scientific
> : >>>> : notebook.  Your school might already have a site license [full
> disclosure:
> : >>>> : my company makes MathType]
> : >>>> :
> : >>>> : Neil Soiffer
> : >>>> : Senior Scientist
> : >>>> : Design Science, Inc.
> : >>>> : www.dessci.com
> : >>>> : ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation
> : >>>> Editor ~
> : >>>> :
> : >>>> :
> : >>>> :
> : >>>> : On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Allan Mesoga
> : >>>> <allan.mesoga at gmail.com>wrote:
> : >>>> :
> : >>>> : > You can also use scientific notebook and save it as latex and
> open
> : >>>> it
> : >>>> : > using duxbury then translate.
> : >>>> : >
> : >>>> : > On 9/10/13, Sharon O'Neill <soneill1 at haverford.edu> wrote:
> : >>>> : > > Hi Gabriela:  were you able to find an answer to the Nemeth
> : >>>> Braille
> : >>>> : > > software question?  I see they directed you to the fellow that
> : >>>> has
> : >>>> : > revamped
> : >>>> : > > the nfbnet list for blindmath.  Were you able to contact him?
> : >>>> : > >
> : >>>> : > > I would be very interested in what he suggested.
> : >>>> : > >
> : >>>> : > > Regards,
> : >>>> : > >
> : >>>> : > > Sheri
> : >>>> : > >
> : >>>> : > >
> : >>>> : > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Gabriela Moats
> : >>>> <gmoats at haverford.edu>
> : >>>> : > > wrote:
> : >>>> : > >
> : >>>> : > >> Hi all,
> : >>>> : > >> I need to make raised tactile images that contain labels with
> : >>>> math
> : >>>> : > >> symbols for a blind student and he would like them to be typed
> : >>>> in Nemeth
> : >>>> : > >> Braille. Usually I just type them in SimBraille font and then
> : >>>> feed it
> : >>>> : > >> through an embosser so that the dots become raised Braille,
> but
> : >>>> I need
> : >>>> : > to
> : >>>> : > >> be able to type in Nemeth Braille for this science course.
> Does
> : >>>> anyone
> : >>>> : > >> know
> : >>>> : > >> of a software program or font I can download that would allow
> : >>>> me to do
> : >>>> : > >> this?
> : >>>> : > >>
> : >>>> : > >> Thank you,
> : >>>> : > >>
> : >>>> : > >> Gabriela
> : >>>> : > >>
> : >>>> : > >> --
> : >>>> : > >> Gabriela Echavarría Moats
> : >>>> : > >> Special Assignment Coordinator of Accommodations
> : >>>> : > >> Office of Disabilities Services
> : >>>> : > >> Haverford College
> : >>>> : > >> Stokes Hall 118F
> : >>>> : > >> gmoats at haverford.edu
> : >>>> : > >> _______________________________________________
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