[Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille

Mon Sep 16 10:34:20 UTC 2013

I am not sure whether anything shows the two exactly synchronised, but 
there are certainly editors which allow you to quickly compile LaTeX 
into PDF at the press of a key. TeXnic center on windows is one I 
believe which is accessible, and TeXShop on the Mac is also accessible.

If using MathType (which is a perfectly capable system even to 
university level), one can toggle between LaTeX notation and MathType 
equations (which visually are print equations) just by pressing 
alt+backslash.

In either case it would require the LaTeX notation to be valid to 
produce output, although a LaTeX compiler will give you error messages 
if the LaTeX is invalid. I do not think MathType will warn of invalid 
syntax in the LaTeX notation (remember though, MathType you will have 
much less syntax to manually check).

Michael Whapples
On 16/09/2013 09:47, I. C. Bray wrote:
> OK, So it appears that LaTeX is principal to producing math for both blind &
> sighted indiciduals.
>
> Is there any software program / suite that allows for Source Edditing of
> LaTeX and say a WYSIWYG graphical presentation of the source
> simultaneously??
>
> Example:
> A multiple monitor system that shows source code editing on one side, and a
> second that is dedicated to the visual representation of the source for
> immediate review?
>
> This way, the Blind coder can ask for visual review of the code if some one
> has opportunity to assist.
>
> I  mean, I want to review transcriptionist's work as it's produced for me,
> so is it not unreasonable that if I am producing LaTeX code for sighted
> colleagues that they be able to say, "Hey, Ian... you missed the placement
> of that integral" ?  Fixing it before publishing it?
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 4:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
>
>
> : Learning some parts of LaTeX will be required regardless of whether you
> : use LaTeX entirely for the document or use a tool like MathType with
> : Word (with MathType one can enter equations using LaTeX notation, but
> : other software, including some wikis also can use LaTeX notation for
> : entering equations).
> :
> : So probably the best option is to find a good LaTeX book/tutorial. I
> : might not be the best person for this, but one resource I find good as a
> : reference, or to find a basic outline of LaTeX packages which are new to
> : me (I believe there is also a more beginner section for getting started
> : but I have not read that), is the LaTeX wiki book at
> : http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX. Another popular one which I have not
> : used is the "Not so short introduction to LaTeX".
> :
> : If you are going down the MathType route then you only really need to
> : concern yourself with the math part of LaTeX, however you probably would
> : need to also refer to MathType documentation as it will only support a
> : subset of LaTeX notation.
> :
> : If you plan to use the LaTeX system for the entire document then you
> : would want to go through the sections such as getting started,
> : installing the LaTeX system, etc.
> :
> : If you have an idea where you might work, then you might want to
> : consider what they use, certainly for LaTeX only those who really use it
> : would actually be able to help. Tools like MathType might be simpler for
> : sighted users to help even if they have little experience with MathType.
> :
> : To explain the difference, MathType has a graphical editor which sighted
> : users can use, where as with LaTeX you might be dealing with the source
> : code directly (it is a form of a programming language). While there are
> : graphical editors for LaTeX, these can produce complicated LaTeX source
> : code which you possibly would not want to deal with by hand.
> :
> : MathType can suffer with producing complicated LaTeX notation should you
> : toggle a MathType equation back to LaTeX notation, but this is slightly
> : more managable as only the equation is in LaTeX notation (in my mind a
> : small chunk of complication is simpler to manage than a large chunk).
> :
> : Michael Whapples
> : On 15/09/2013 17:16, I. C. Bray wrote:
> : > Michael,
> : > What or how would you recommend getting started?  Regardless of the
> learning
> : > curve or software or quid pro quo's ?  Keep in mind that you want to be
> both
> : > a student, teacher, and possible blindness researcher?
> : >
> : > Thank you for the Blind-Science notice.  I was actually contacted by
> someone
> : > this morning!  I would, however; like to make it known that I am
> interested
> : > in the Science Organization, and would appreciate any community that
> exists.
> : >
> : > Ian
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : > ----- Original Message -----
> : > From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
> : > To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> : > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> : > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 11:35 AM
> : > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
> : >
> : >
> : > : Here are a few comments of mine for what it is worth.
> : > :
> : > : I agree with Niel that using MathType and Word is possibly a simpler
> : > : option for those who already know how to use Word. Also MathType
> having
> : > : the LaTeX input mode/toggle in Word does mean that mathType is
> : > : sufficiently accessible to be usable.
> : > :
> : > : As well as using Duxbury to convert a Word document with MathType
> : > : equation, there is also the Tiger Software Suite from ViewPlus
> : > : Technologies. I probably also should disclose that I do work for
> : > : ViewPlus, so I will withhold making comments on how well either work,
> I
> : > : am just putting forward the other option. I believe both do have demo
> : > : versions so you can try both and see which is better for you.
> : > :
> : > : Scientific notebook has been mentioned, something I know little of,
> but
> : > : it certainly seems to get much less discussion than the other options.
> : > : Also I do not know what accessibility it does or does not have.
> : > :
> : > : Another popular option is to write the document in LaTeX, great if you
> : > : are going to make sufficient use of it as it probably is the most
> : > : flexible and powerful option. The big down side is that there is quite
> a
> : > : lot to learn and so the learning time is certainly not insignificant.
> : > :
> : > : I must also note that all three of the above options rely on software
> : > : translation to produce Braille, and so the Braille output is only as
> : > : good as the software is. This is unlikely to be perfect at best,
> : > : speaking for myself when I did a physics degree between 2003 and 2007
> : > : the British Braille support in a popular Braille translation package
> was
> : > : as good as useless (eg. many symbols not even known, some LaTeX
> commands
> : > : causing the translation software to stop translating with no error
> : > : message, etc). My point here mainly being that you certainly want to
> : > : test the software first, you may not be able to purely rely on it (I
> : > : would personally say it probably would need some form of proof
> reading).
> : > :
> : > : I would say that the blind person should at least be able to
> understand
> : > : the main stream format (eg. LaTeX or MathType in Word), so at least if
> : > : there is Braille translation issues they can refer back to the
> original
> : > : document to see what they should have.
> : > :
> : > : On the topic of the NFB-Science list, I believe it does tend to be
> much
> : > : quieter.
> : > :
> : > : Michael Whapples
> : > : On 15/09/2013 07:03, I. C. Bray wrote:
> : > : > Neil,
> : > : > Well, I am going to need to use something, and I have been putting
> off
> : > : > deciding until I get some idea what's out there and what makes sence
> for
> : > me.
> : > : > I don't want to have to learn 5 new programs and try to keep the
> command
> : > &
> : > : > control sets seperate...
> : > : > I've been reading the BlindMath ListServ and hearing the
> difficulties
> : > and am
> : > : > just hoping I collect enough info and various ways to approach my
> own
> : > Math,
> : > : > Science, and Teaching needs now that I'm blind.
> : > : >
> : > : > OH, Side note question.
> : > : > Is the Blind Science listserv not active??  I Joined the list, and
> do
> : > not
> : > : > think I got any replies...
> : > : >
> : > : > Ian
> : > : > ----- Original Message -----
> : > : > From: "Neil Soiffer" <NeilS at dessci.com>
> : > : > To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> : > : > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> : > : > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 1:52 AM
> : > : > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > : > : You can also use MathType with Word and then use Duxbury to
> translate
> : > to
> : > : > : Nemeth.  Like Scientific notebook, with MathType you just type the
> : > math in
> : > : > : using an easy math editor. If you are a familiar with Word, it is
> : > probably
> : > : > : a better option than getting Scientific Notebook and having to
> learn
> : > that.
> : > : > : MathType is just a math editor and so is a lot cheaper than
> Scientific
> : > : > : notebook.  Your school might already have a site license [full
> : > disclosure:
> : > : > : my company makes MathType]
> : > : > :
> : > : > : Neil Soiffer
> : > : > : Senior Scientist
> : > : > : Design Science, Inc.
> : > : > : www.dessci.com
> : > : > : ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation
> Editor
> : > ~
> : > : > :
> : > : > :
> : > : > :
> : > : > : On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Allan Mesoga
> : > : > <allan.mesoga at gmail.com>wrote:
> : > : > :
> : > : > : > You can also use scientific notebook and save it as latex and
> open
> : > it
> : > : > : > using duxbury then translate.
> : > : > : >
> : > : > : > On 9/10/13, Sharon O'Neill <soneill1 at haverford.edu> wrote:
> : > : > : > > Hi Gabriela:  were you able to find an answer to the Nemeth
> : > Braille
> : > : > : > > software question?  I see they directed you to the fellow that
> has
> : > : > : > revamped
> : > : > : > > the nfbnet list for blindmath.  Were you able to contact him?
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > I would be very interested in what he suggested.
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > Regards,
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > Sheri
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Gabriela Moats
> : > <gmoats at haverford.edu>
> : > : > : > > wrote:
> : > : > : > >
> : > : > : > >> Hi all,
> : > : > : > >> I need to make raised tactile images that contain labels with
> : > math
> : > : > : > >> symbols for a blind student and he would like them to be
> typed in
> : > : > Nemeth
> : > : > : > >> Braille. Usually I just type them in SimBraille font and then
> : > feed it
> : > : > : > >> through an embosser so that the dots become raised Braille,
> but I
> : > : > need
> : > : > : > to
> : > : > : > >> be able to type in Nemeth Braille for this science course.
> Does
> : > : > anyone
> : > : > : > >> know
> : > : > : > >> of a software program or font I can download that would allow
> me
> : > to
> : > : > do
> : > : > : > >> this?
> : > : > : > >>
> : > : > : > >> Thank you,
> : > : > : > >>
> : > : > : > >> Gabriela
> : > : > : > >>
> : > : > : > >> --
> : > : > : > >> Gabriela Echavarría Moats
> : > : > : > >> Special Assignment Coordinator of Accommodations
> : > : > : > >> Office of Disabilities Services
> : > : > : > >> Haverford College
> : > : > : > >> Stokes Hall 118F
> : > : > : > >> gmoats at haverford.edu
> : > : > : > >> _______________________________________________
> : > : > : > >> Blindmath mailing list
> : > : > : > >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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