[Blindmath] FW: using math on the apex

Tue Sep 9 07:49:18 UTC 2014

Did it again, here is the reply sent to Amanda.
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Godfrey, Jonathan 
Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2014 7:33 p.m.
To: 'Amanda Lacy'
Subject: RE: [Blindmath] using math on the apex

Hello  Amanda,

If your professor has been using MS Word to create her documents and she has MathType already then perhaps you can conduct a little experiment between the pair of you. Go to her and ask for a document that has mathematical stuff in it. Ask her to open it, highlight all and then toggle the MathType content into its LaTeX using the Alt+\ keystroke or the appropriate button in the MathType pull down menu.

All expressions created using MathType will now be in between $ $ if they were an in-line expression or between \[ and \] if they were equations. Get her to save this file with a new filename so that you don't need to toggle the content next time you read it. Now open that file on your laptop with your screen reader nice and loud. Slow it down for the sightling too. N.B. The file is still a Word document, not a LaTeX one.

There will be some teething issues. Every time a sighted person (and some blindies too) creates something like x squared, they have the option of creating a MathType object, or typing x2 and changing the font of the 2 to make it a superscript. Visually there is so little difference that the visually dependent don't notice how the object was created, and they won't know that it will matter to you. I'm sure you are smart enough to work out that in the vast majority of cases where an x is followed by a 2 it means squared. The difficulty will be with the other characters that are created using the symbol font instead of MathType. It is this reason that I recommend doing the experiment with the sighted professor looking at you reading one of the converted documents. You'll find that some Greek letters will not be read by your screen reader, nor will they be converted to their TeX equivalent. Again it's the dreaded symbol font thing again, although it's probably the Greek font this time not one of the Math symbol fonts. Common symbols that get inserted this way include the relations like "less than or equal to" for example.

I can't imagine anyone in a serious mathematical science subject using the basic equation editor in MS Word but I have interacted with a number of staff from Psychology, Economics, and Veterinary Science that are still surviving without MathType. If you do have one of these 20th century dinosaurs to work with, then the investment in MathType will need to be yours alone and there will be trouble at first until  you're comfortable getting it all sorted out properly. I have the advantage of a secretary to ask nowadays, and before that flatmates. I didn't have the ability to toggle the content for a very long time and looking back wish that I had benefitted. <sigh>

When it all goes right, it goes very right and you'll love getting on with the business of learning the material instead of expending energy on the accessibility issues. I'd like to say it's always easy, but I'm a realist and hope that most people understand that it's better to be fore-warned about the problems that might exist. Of course, I'd like someone to ask me a question on this list that I get to answer without having to add caveat after caveat. 

Once we get this access thing dusted, I'm moving on to world peace.
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Amanda Lacy [mailto:lacy925 at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2014 4:24 p.m.
To: Godfrey, Jonathan
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using math on the apex

Jonathan,

All I need right now is to be able to take a docx file with math symbols in it and somehow convert it to LaTeX. I want no mysterious symbols, no missing subscripts and superscripts that rely on visual formatting, nothing but text. If I first get Word and then MathType, will I be able to save files in LaTeX? Will I need a sightling, or can I do it myself?

My professor is using nothing but docx files and pdfs. I can't read anything she writes.

Amanda
On 9/6/2014 7:33 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan wrote:
> Hi Amanda,
>
> If you are going to get lots of MS Word documents with mathematical stuff in it, why not either invest in a  copy of MathType for yourself or ask your staff to do the following for you.
>
> If you open a  document (even with equations created using the basic 
> equation editor) on a machine with MathType, you will be able to 
> convert all the equations into their LaTeX equivalent in a matter of 
> seconds. Highlight all (Ctrl+A) and then toggle the equations using
> Alt+\
>
> You can do this in reverse to create the documents yourself if you chose to. I occasionally have to interact with MS Word users for document preparation, especially for such things as exams because the central university systems can't handle LaTeX. I also mark assignments this way. I go back and forth from TeX to MathType regularly. It is possible to save these files with the MathType exposed in TeX for later consumption.
>
> Personally, if I were a student I would invest in my own copy of MathType as I want independence. I can then make use of the LEAN editing tool being worked on by John Gardner which is free to individual blind users. This tool is also braille friendly.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Amanda Lacy via Blindmath
> Sent: Sunday, 7 September 2014 10:40 a.m.
> To: Daniel Gillen; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using math on the apex
>
> Daniel, Can you assign dot patterns to these symbols in NVDA? Normally I use LaTeX, but I occasionally have the misfortune of meeting a math professor who creates equations in MS word.
>
> Amanda
> On 9/6/2014 4:07 PM, Daniel Gillen via Blindmath wrote:
>> as I am a college student majoring in physics, I understand that it may be better to stick to computer braille code especially with the higher math courses. This is because many teachers and professors will not be comfortable reading such cumbersome notation, perhaps much more cumbersome than the LaTeX encoding. Also, because of what I am studying, I have assigned many shortcut keys to the extended Unicode characters (Such as the integral sign, the partial differential sign, and many others). This has made the symbols possible to be printed on paper or in word documents. I have done this even before I was in college, especially for my precalculus high school course and a couple before then. Hopefully this is helpful information. You may want to consult the user guide about Unicode character insertion via the Unicode tables and assigning key and dot combinations to these characters for working in computer braille.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Daniel sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 4:52 PM, "Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a super topic!  Too am looking forward to people's reactions. My students have been using computer braille for years, also, and what ends up printing out for the teachers is MUCH. Better than what prints out with the updated nemith option. I don't know how this will translate, but here goes. If you insert a parenthesis, it prints out with the word open parenthesis, or close parenthesis. If you use a superscript, the word super script appears. It reads in print much like you might hope a sighted person would read a math equation....but to me, it seems a bit much for the sighted teachers to take in! So, for example, 2(3+ x/3) would read 2 open parenthesis 3 +open fraction x fraction line 3 close fraction close parenthesis.
>>>
>>> As I said, seems to me a bit much for the teacher, but not insurmountable! The question is, does it make more sense to stick to computer braille??
>>>
>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>>> Bethlehem Central Schools
>>> 700 Delaware Avenue
>>> Delmar, NY 12054
>>> http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 3:33 PM, "petras via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all.
>>> I recently upgraded to keysoft 9.4 and would like to know how to use math on the apex.  Currently I use the brailler to do it, but I'm just wondering how.
>>>
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