[Blindmath] alternative methods of learning college

[John G Heim]

By the way, I see that the Hadley Schoolhas a Nemeth class. I was going 
to say they brought it back but I'm not sure it was ever gone. I know 
they dropped their music braille course for a while but that's back now 
as well. The Hadley School offers classes for the blind via the mail. 
All the classes I've taken from them have been really good.

had no one to teach it.


On 12/14/2015 08:45 PM, Zac Mason via Blindmath wrote:
> If I may add my $0.02 to this spirited collaboration, for the sake of the
> original poster's request for advice; I am a Nemeth reader, MathML user,
> audio listener, and manager of human readers, beginner user of SAS and an
> avid Excel lover. I'm also an animal science major at the graduate level.
> Growing use, math was my favorite subject in grade school until high school.
> It was then that I met my mental limitations and couldn't do the algebra
> without writing my steps. However, I'm not too sure how much of that were my
> instructors demanding I write my steps down, and my TVA's persistence that I
> use Braille.
>
>   
>
> The truth is that you are going to need a new system for recording
> calculations eventually, if you pursue mathematic study beyond your mental
> limitations to keep everything straight. You also live in a world where 99%
> of the population, particularly in America cannot do multivariable
> integration, T-tests, etc. in their heads, and to communicate with us 99%,
> you'll have to show us what you did. Otherwise instructors have no way of
> knowing if you cheated, or just had no clue. Those are the responses I would
> have if you only reported the answer when I asked you to show your work and
> you got it right or wrong, respectively.
>
>   
>
> Now, there's a lot of folk who promote learning Nemeth or Gardner-Salinas
> Braille math code. I would encourage you right now to weigh the pros and
> cons with an unbiased advisor(s)-I'm not talking about your academic advisor
> necessarily. You need someone/people knowledgeable about STEM education at
> the college level to help you right now. Were I in your footsteps, I would
> want to know:
>
> 1.  How usable is this language that you'll learn to communicate math in?
> Nemeth is great. It's the gold standard for communicating Braille math to
> those who can read it. Doesn't help too much in a college stats course
> except as a way to take notes when your disabilities office doesn't have a
> skilled Braille document conversion specialist.
>
> 2.  How long does it take to translate? I can tell you that to outsource the
> transcription of a math or science text book into Nemeth Braille, if you
> include translating all the charts and diagrams into raised line diagrams is
> between $30,000-$50,000 and takes about a year. You may as well take a
> semester or year off school to wait for your books to be ready.
>
> 3.  How much time do I want to spend managing? Everything requires an extra
> level of management when you're blind. From organizing our dressers and
> refrigerators, to getting where we need to go, we have to plan ahead and put
> in the extra effort to get stuff done. I'm going to tell you now, makes for
> a good talking point in interviews. It's not all gloom and doom. Back to my
> point, managing a reader, just like a guide dog, a business, etc., requires
> careful training, organization, and communication skills. So do you like
> people or not?
>
> 4.  How easily does communication flow? Does it take 30 business days, two
> hours, a week to communicate your ideas? How long does it take the
> instructor's lecture presentations to get into the format you can access?
> For that matter, when you record your writing, can you read back what you
> recorded?
>
> 5.  Finally, what are your goals and what are you willing to do to
> accomplish them? Do you want to pass your math gen eds and never touch the
> stuff again, or do you want to go on to a PhD in biostatistics, or probably,
> if you're more like me, something in the middle? Do you have a year, two
> years, five years, two months, or maybe you're in the middle of the semester
> already and you have to learn on the spot? All systems for reading and
> recording math are going to require time to learn. Don't forget that most of
> your peers have had 12 years of grade school, or that plus 4 years of
> undergrad level education, depending at what level you're studying at to
> become proficient in printed math symbology. You will need time to learn
> what ever system you go with.
>
>   
>
> I'm not an education specialist, and I don't claim to be, but I hope this
> helps coming from someone who has, and still is struggling to find the
> perfect math language. There are other options out there than Braille,
> visual readers and audio format.
>
>   
>
> Regards,
>
>   
>
> Zac
>
>   
>
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Jeremy <jeremy.richards7 at gmail.com>
>
> Sent: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 13:06:59 -0800
>
> To: <jheim at math.wisc.edu>,    "'Blind Math list for those interested in
>
>        mathematics'"     <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] alternative methods of learning college
>
>        algebra
>
> Message-ID: <566f2f70.d941620a.7df46.ffffd803 at mx.google.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"
>
>   
>
> Look, you've already written me suggesting you've forgotten the bulk of this
>
> thread. I'm sorry if you can't get it together, so don't comment about what
>
> you don't know about.
>
>   
>
> You also seem to have problems with comprehension. Please review this thread
>
> in it's entirety or simply learn not to butt in because you're adding to the
>
> pollution that goes along with these types of threads.
>
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G
>
> Heim via Blindmath
>
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 12:54 PM
>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>
> Cc: John G Heim
>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] alternative methods of learning college algebra
>
>   
>
> But nobody said a human can do arithmetic better than a calculator. You are
>
> disputing a point no one has made.
>
>   
>
> Can we get back on topic, please? This thing about doing math in your head
>
> came up when someone suggested that you don't need to learn Nemeth because
>
> you can keep most of it in your head. I would not put much of anything
>
> beyond the capacity of the human brain. But I'd also say the vast majority
>
> of math students are going to need to write a lot of stuff down. Therefore,
>
> saying you don't need to learn Nemeth strikes me as poor advice.
>
>   
>
> One additional thing though. I was at a conference a while ago and happened
>
> to mention Nemeth code. One of the instructors chastised me for recommending
>
> Nemeth instead  of Gardner-Salinas. According to this person, we shouldn't
>
> be telling students to learn Nemeth because it is old hat and
>
> Gardner-Salinas braille notation is the bomb-diggity.  I have to admit that
>
> at the time, I didn't even know what that was.
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> On 12/14/2015 01:56 PM, Jeremy via Blindmath wrote:
>
>> Slide rule was all that was available, so yes, they did with what they
> had.
>
>> This is no longer the case, so why continue hunting with a bow and arrow?
>> Regarding the bug you found, its likely that in the stone age most of
>> that code was written by humans and not computers, so of course there
>> is plenty of opportunity for errors if the human mistyped, but this is
>> very different than the calculator itself not properly computing.
>> It appears many of you out there have not taken even the most basic
>> psych course as you would have quickly learned the limitations of
>> human working memory. Believe me, those of you who are wowing
>> yourselves because you think you're these human calculators, you've
>> not truly assessed your abilities in a scientific manner because if
>> you did, you would find the human mind and memory are prone to error when
> it comes to manipulating numbers.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Star Gazer via Blindmath
>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 9:35 AM
>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>> Cc: Star Gazer
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] alternative methods of learning college
>> algebra
>> Remember the math behind airplanes and the early space program was all
>> done with a slide rule.
>> I once found a bug in a calculator because I knew how to do math.
>> Just something to keep in mind.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Jeremy via Blindmath
>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 10:15 AM
>> To: jheim at math.wisc.edu; 'Blind Math list for those interested in
>> mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Jeremy <jeremy.richards7 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] alternative methods of learning college
>> algebra
>> Though I can understand your perspective as a blind person, just about
>> every human being in the modern world carries a cell phone, and all
>> cell phones have calculators. Why trust or tax your memory when a
>> device which can compute far, far more than your brain will ever be
>> able to calculate is right in your pocket. Why walk across the country
>> when a technological advancement such as an airplane will take you to
>> your destination in hours with no effort on your part.
>> Those who know math well such as professors and opt to make
>> calculations using paper and pencil are probably doing so because they
>> have long become aware of the human brain's computational weaknesses
>> and simply solve problems in this way to eliminate the possibility of
> error.
>
>> The reason we as humans have seen an incredible jump in our
>> technological advancements is due to computers. If we didn't invent
>> computing machines we would be stuck using slide rulers and taking all
>> day to compute relatively simple calculations which would overall hinder
> technological advancements.
>
>> I can imagine making calculations in your head gets some "wows" from
>> others, but it is not reliable if your goal is accuracy. One will have
>> to weigh the pros and cons of learning and practicing mental math over
>> the amount of time necessary to learn such a skill.
>> If you want to see some amazing stuff, look up videos with Asians
>> competing against one another using the abacus. These guys are
>> multiplying and dividing 6-digit numbers in seconds, which would not
>> normally be possible without such an instrument.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> John G Heim via Blindmath
>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 6:25 AM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Cc: John G Heim
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] alternative methods of learning college
>> algebra
>> I would hesitate to say that you absolutely have to learn braille math.
>> But I'd be even more hesitant to say you don't need it either and I
>> would put a different spin on doing everything in your head. Being
>> able to do math in your head is an extremely valuable skill to have --
>> if you can develop it. That's actually true for any math student.
>> Personally, it amazes me how some really good mathematicians have to
>> write everything down. It strikes me as primitive. But I'm sure humans
>> vary greatly on their ability to do math in their head and some people
>> are going to have a greater need to write things down than others. It
>> strikes me as bad advice to tell someone to forget about writing stuff
> down.
>
>> I do like the advice someone gave to learn latex. A knowledge of latex
>> is considered so basic here at the Department of Mathematics at the
>> University of Wisconsin that we don't even teach a mini-course in it
>> any more.  We don't teach the alphabet either. If you are going to
>> major in math, you're expected to know latex.
>> On 12/14/2015 01:51 AM, Jeremy via Blindmath wrote:
>>> Post the faculty website listing you as "college mathematics
>>> professor at a community college." If this is not the case, I think
>>> it may not be legal for someone to walk around playing pretend in
>>> regards to professional academic credentials.
>>> Though you think you may have excelled at mathematics using your
>>> technique, it is probably very likely that an objective comparison of
>>> methods and outcomes may not be as generous to your self-assessment
>>> of your mathematic ability.
>>> If you have truly worked with as many individuals as you claim, it is
>>> likely you would know by now that people learn in very different
>>> ways, and not everyone will be as fluent with mathematics as another,
>>> so claiming no one needs braille and alike to complete math
>>> assignments is the type of comment coming from an amateur and not a
> professional.
>
>>> Surely you've heard of the normal distribution, if so, why would you
>>> dare
>> make such a comment?
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> David Moore via Blindmath
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 10:36 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Cc: David Moore
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] alternative methods of learning college
>>> algebra
>>> Hi Laura,
>>> I had sight until I was 15. By the way, my name is David Moore. After
>>> I lost my sight, I learned how to do all the math I had done up
>>> through high school algebra in my head the way that I had seen it
>>> with my eyes. You can learn how to concentrate so well, that you
>>> could be able to see the algebra in your head just how you would see
>>> it written and do all of the steps in your head and obtain the answer
>>> by seeing every step just like it is in front of your eyes. I Majored
>>> in math by using this method. If someone reads you a problem, you can
>>> learn how to keep every step straight in your head. If you need some
>>> braille to write down, just make up any code you want. No one else
>>> reads the Braille anyway, so as long as you know what it means, you
>>> can just make up your code. Please email me, Laura. Braille is not
>>> needed to do math and do not let these Braille crazy people tell you
>>> that. If I do write math down in Braille, I use some made up code,
>>> because I am the only one who reads Braille. I will share my
>>> experience with you and teach you tricks of doing all math in your
>>> head. Have a great one, can't wait to talk to you. I will help you
>>> get an A in that class. I have tutored sighted and blind alike just
>>> for fun. You will be fine and you can do it. I am a college
>>> mathematics professor at a community
>> college. I am also totally blind. You can do it, I am proof. Take care.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Louis Maher via Blindmath
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 10:11 PM
>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>> Cc: Louis Maher
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] alternative methods of learning college
>>> algebra
>>> You must learn Braille and Nemeth Code which is the Braille
>>> mathematics code.
>>> Regards
>>> Louis Maher
>>> Phone 713-444-7838
>>> E-mail ljmaher at swbell.net
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Laura Etori via Blindmath
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:34 PM
>>> To: Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Laura Etori <letori.etori6 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [Blindmath] alternative methods of learning college algebra
>>> greetings everyone
>>> I am a college student and i am not proficient in braille. that is
>>> because i lost my sight recently.
>>> for my core curricular courses i am expected to take college algebra
>>> and since i do not know math braille i would love to get suggestions
>>> from all of you on how i can be able to go through my course using
>> alternative methods.
>>> i am totally blind and eager to take up any suggestions.
>>> your input is highly appreciated and thanks a lot.
>>> --
>>> for it is Him who works in us, and works through us, and makes
>>> everything beautiful and marvelous in His time and splendour.
>>> Kind regards
>>> Laura Etori
>>> _______________________________________________
>   
>
>   
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jheim%40math.wisc.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>