[Blindmath] Looking for a particular type of person to ask questions

Fri Feb 6 04:00:48 UTC 2015

Hi Tim et al.,

Tim: your words are too kind. I think you might be reflecting on my presentations at Summer University 2013 where the audience was primarily vision impaired. In that situation the sighted participants had to suck it up when things weren't presented in the way they weren't used to. Personally, I found my performance at SU2011 was less than I wanted even if I did get good feedback from some attendees. It inspired me to improve the way I prepared for SU2013.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim in 't Veld via Blindmath
Sent: Friday, 6 February 2015 4:20 p.m.
To: Sabra Ewing; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Looking for a particular type of person to ask questions

Hi Sabra,
Might you not getting anything out of lectures be due to (over)reliance on slides / the blackboard?
Many presenters, especially on mathematical or technical topics, will say things like "now, we have this formula here... then we subtract that variable to get that formula there ..."
A bad presentation style. Not just because you exclude blind participants, but mainly because you go over the material way too fast and are bound to  lose your sighted audience as well (if they fall asleep they will close their eyes, then we at least have a level playing field in the lecture room).
But that sighted audience could read your slides and get a grasp of what you're saying no matter how bad your presentation style or mastery of English actually is.

Good presenters don't need slides or notes. They interact with their audience. Just as Jonathan (one of the best presenters I know) commented. A presentation is for the high level overview, it is not suited to fully cover all the detail which is in the lecture notes / book.

In mathematics lectures you do need a blackboard sometimes, so it is incredibly hard for blind students or professors to be effective in mathematical group lectures. Still having a good presenter does make a huge difference.

I'm not yet a very experienced presenter, but when I present I preferably present slideless (I sometimes make slides because people demand that, but never more than 4 - 5 short phrases per slide and never more than one slide per 2 - 3 minutes). I know my material so well that I can present it from memory (in a more or less improvised style based on a rough planning I have for the presentation). If I don't know the topic I'm presenting inside out, I have no right to bother people with my words.

Another important point is to avoid monologues. Always open your presentation with a question, and ask the audience for input at several points during the presentation (just saying 'you can ask questions at any time' will not do). I guess many people hate this, I usually have the front row of any lecture room to myself. For some reason most students prefer withdrawing to the backmost row and focusing on their smartphone in devote silence. Regrettably, some professors (and most student presenters) accommodate them by rushing through 2 overfilled slides per minute in broken English. Fortunately most professors in my master program are good lecturers, and being part of the very small group which actually responds when they involve their audience really helps me grasp the material.

Tim

On 2/6/2015 1:55 AM, Sabra Ewing via Blindmath wrote:
> I'm not expecting a 100% grass. I'm expecting a good enough grass though to get started learning outside of class. Sometimes I leave class with a 0% grasp on the material. Somehow, I was paying attention, but I didn't learn anything.this even happens when I ask questions. Even though I remember the answers to my questions,and I remember what went on in the class, I can't do the problems. I don't know why this is though. I can literally played back the entire class in my head.I even tried recording a class before and listening again, but it didn't help because I already remembered everything that happened anyways. I didn't get anything off of the recording that I didn't remember.so if I pay attention, remember everything that happens, and ask questions, why can't I do the problems until I go to tutoring?it would be good if in tutoring I could ask questions about what I already learned instead of having to learn everything from scratch.
>
> Sabra Ewing
>
>> On Feb 5, 2015, at 6:45 PM, Sean Whalen <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> In my experience, and I think this is broadly true, much of the 
>> learning of these concepts comes with practice and discussion outside 
>> of class. I view the class as a first pass at the information, but I 
>> don't think most sighted students are walking out of the classroom with a 100% grasp on the material.
>> In various economics and statistics classes that I have taken, when 
>> the professor has done well to read the board and describe key 
>> graphical concepts, I have left the room understanding the material 
>> better than many of the other students in the class. I haven't used 
>> tutors, but sitting down with classmates to work through problem sets 
>> has been when I really felt that I was gaining a firm handle on the content.
>>
>> Sean
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Sabra Ewing via Blindmath
>> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 7:40 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Looking for a particular type of person to 
>> ask questions
>>
>> When I say benefit fully, I mean you as a blind student got at least 
>> what one average cited student would get out of the class. If you 
>> were in a higher level math course, for example algebra two and 
>> beyond or college algebra and beyond, with other blind students,I 
>> would also be curious to know what the format of those classes are 
>> and how they work. What do they do instead of just making everybody 
>> look at a board because they can't.or if you were a teacher and you 
>> would be expected to teach a higher level math course two blind 
>> students, how would you do it or how did you do it in the past?I am 
>> curious because when I work one-on-one with a tutor, I can learn a 
>> lot, but in the class, I can't, and I really want to learn more from 
>> being in a classroom setting.I have had teachers verbalize what is on 
>> the board and give me problems and graphs to look at in class, but it 
>> hasn't helped and I don't know why.I know it is not a problem with my 
>> learning because I can learn it if someone teaches it to me outside 
>> of class.I want to actually learn from being inside my classroom 
>> instead of wishing it would be over and just learning everything 
>> outside of class at tutoring. I know this is possible, but I don't 
>> know what it would take for it to happen. So I have to figure out what it would take, and then how that could work within the confines of the educational system that my college has.
>>
>> Sabra Ewing
>>
>>> On Feb 5, 2015, at 5:26 PM, Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am looking for someone who was successful at learning higher level 
>>> math
>> courses in a high school or college settingwith in the confines of 
>> the class. If you got tutoring outside of class, that is fine, but I 
>> am looking for someone who actually went to a math class and 
>> benefited fully from it rather than solely relying on outside help.if 
>> you taught a blind student who you felt benefited fully from your 
>> class, I am interested in hearing from you as well.I want to know 
>> what happened inside the class to make you benefit from it. What 
>> strategies did you use as the teacher for the teacher use that you 
>> found effective as the student?did the structure of the class change 
>> to be more interactive for all of the students? If so, how? Is it 
>> possible for a blind student to fully benefit from a math class the 
>> way decided student would without changing the inherent structure of 
>> the way the school teaches?let's assume a traditional lecture 
>> teaching style here.also, what is it about a math class that makes it 
>> hard for you to get things from it?apart from verbalizing things on 
>> the boardis there anything you ask a teacher to do when you weren't 
>> getting something out of a class that was successful?also, could you please provide specific concrete examples rather then abstract statements? Thank you.
>>> Sabra Ewing
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