[Blindmath] braille code changes and nemeth

Mon Mar 23 01:07:11 UTC 2015

I just checked Hadley's website and this is posted: "Note, there is a
temporary hold on new enrollments in Transitioning to Unified English
Braille due to early high demand. Check back with us for notification of
re-opening of enrollment. The online version of this course for visual
learners is expected during May 2015."

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 8:15 PM, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:

> As a TVI, I can say that there have been many conversations and resources
> made available to train ourselves, at least in my state. I have sat through
> 5 or 6 presentations on making the shift at various consortia and
> conferences over the last 2 years. I believe the same is true in many other
> states.
>
> As to the concerns that people raise over UEB being more complicated, I
> feel like the opposite is true. The rules for when you can and can’t use
> contractions have been relaxed for consistency. braille more closely
> mirrors print. As a braille reader, I find the changes refreshing. I love
> that I don’t have to switch to a different braille code just to read a
> website or refer to anything vaguely technical. I also love that I can
> correctly write Ke$ha’s name in braille  now.
>
> Some of it looks weird to me because it is new, but it certainly isn’t any
> harder than the old code.
>
> I would encourage you to enroll in Hadley’s free course on transitioning
> to UEB. It is free for braille readers and professionals in the field of
> blindness.
>
> I love that we are keeping Nemeth code. In Georgia, our state braille
> textbook repository has been actively seeking the opinions of teachers as
> they think about the implementation of UEB and Nemeth. I am confident that
> we will have the opportunity to give input if what we try at first does not
> work.
>
> Best,
> Greg
> On Mar 22, 2015, at 7:32 PM, Susan Mooney via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you, Steve Jacobson!  As a transcriber, I know I have been stressed
> > by the changes and I hope there will be workshops to help us all learn
> and
> > adjust and that the workshops will be within reasonable traveling
> > distance.  (All my available crossable parts are crossed in hopes that
> will
> > happen.)  I thought I was the only one who remembered the Taylor Code.
> UEB
> > is awkward right now and it looks and feels funny to me, but I hope I
> will
> > slide right into it and that the producers of braille translation
> software
> > develop something affordable soon.  All those hopes!  As a former teacher
> > of the blind--but still a transcriber--I have one more hope and that's
> for
> > the teachers to firmly learn UEB as well.  Thanks for such a great post!
> >
> > Susan M.
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Steve Jacobson via Blindmath <
> > blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Heidi and others,
> >>
> >> First, I really do not think that you will find that your daughter's
> >> education or stress level will be significantly raised by this change.
> I
> >> say that having been
> >> required in the 1950's and 1960's to switch from the Taylor Code for
> math,
> >> to the first version of Nemeth Code and then a second version of Nemeth
> and
> >> there were profound differences with each change.  I experienced some
> >> substantial changes to Grade Two braille as well, and there were a lot
> of
> >> texts that
> >> were written in
> >> what was called grade one-and-a-half then.  Would my life have been
> easier
> >> if that were not the case, probably, but we didn't think a lot about it.
> >>
> >> More generally, your friend who said change was not inevitable may have
> >> been referring specifically to changing to UEB, I don't know, but I
> believe
> >> changes to the braille code in general are inevitable.  Either braill
> had
> >> to change or it was destined to become less relevant.  I believe this is
> >> the case Partly
> >> because print has changed dramatically during the past three or four
> >> decades.  Also, we, as blind people, are more affected by print
> >> presentation now than
> >> was the case before computers, optical character recognition, and
> >> electronic texts.
> >>
> >> It has been more than twenty years now since serious discussions began
> as
> >> to how to make it possible for braille to better reflect changing print
> >> conventions
> >> and to make better use of our ability to get text electronically.  The
> >> debate has often been very emotional, and at times, there was
> considerable
> >> polarization.
> >> This means that even today, emotions run high regarding what should be
> >> done with braille.  Those of you who have read "War of the Dots" know
> this
> >> is
> >> nothing new.  I think it is safe to say that people tend to get
> emotional
> >> when discussing something that means a great deal to them.  What makes
> the
> >> issue
> >> even more complicated is that there is no perfect solution, including
> >> doing nothing at all.
> >>
> >> Over time, Unified English Braille has emerged as the code that most of
> us
> >> have gotten behind as a path forward, but certainly not all of us.  In
> >> particular,
> >> some of UEB's
> >> detractors were very upset with the UEB's code of mathematics.  Ueb
> >> developers did a credible job of making it possible for math symbols and
> >> numbers to
> >> be written consistently whether in text or within mathematics, but there
> >> seemed to be a cost.  It was demonstrated by some that many mathematical
> >> expressions could take as many as twice
> >> as many symbols to write, and this raised concerns for many of us.  In
> >> addition, mathematical texts are still particularly dependent upon
> humans
> >> to accurately
> >> transcribe them, and changing to UEB for math would have required major
> >> retraining, much more than in the case of literary braille.  For that
> >> reason, a
> >> reasonable compromise seemed to be to stick with our current Nemeth Code
> >> for math rather than changing both literary and mathematical braille.
> >>
> >> If one reads the War of the Dots one learns that in the early part of
> the
> >> twentieth century, different schools for the blind in the united states
> >> taught different
> >> versions of braille.  New York Point was nothing like the braille we
> read
> >> today, even having a differently shaped cell, but it had a good deal of
> >> support a
> >> hundred years ago.  In addition, there were multiple versions of 6-dot
> >> braille that used different sets of contractions.  It took some time for
> >> a single system to evolve and to gain widespread use.  This experience
> >> makes it obvious to me that we need a group to set standards, even if
> >> voluntary.
> >> This is pretty much what BANA is.  They don't have, to my knowledge, any
> >> legal power as your friend said, but are made up of representatives of
> many
> >> diverse groups.  Your friend is right, people could ignore BANA, but
> where
> >> does that leave us?  Is this approach so bad that it is worth
> fragmenting
> >> braille
> >> when it is already under such pressure from other forces?  The current
> >> approach isn't perfect, but neither is any other system that has been
> >> examined.
> >> However, it does seem to me that the current approach of using UEB and
> >> Nemeth Code for math gives us the best approach to open up braille to
> >> accommodate changes in the future with the least disruption to braille
> >> readers, teachers and transcribers.  Work needs to be completed as to
> how to
> >> integrate Nemeth Code with UEB but a lot has already been accomplished.
> >> There is now a symbol that indicates that Nemeth Code is starting, for
> >> example,
> >> that was not part of UEB even a few years ago.  The challenge of how to
> >> handle short mathematical passages has not been completely resolve yet
> but
> >> there is awareness of difficulties that can arise if there are a lot of
> >> indicators switching in and out of Nemeth code.  Interestingly, the math
> >> books I used some
> >> years ago used the literary braille numbers for page numbers and within
> >> the table of contents, and even to number word problems.  Some of these
> >> conventions changed over time, I understand that, but math books simply
> >> have not necessarily been all Nemeth Code as was suggested.  Science
> texts
> >> that are less mathematical have had to bounce between literary braille
> and
> >> Nemeth Code all along and some of this will remain and it isn't really
> new.
> >>
> >> Perhaps it is too strong a statement to say that the changes are a "done
> >> deal."  However, there does come a time when we need to move forward and
> >> think about the path that is ahead of us, how to make it better, how to
> >> make the transition as smooth as possible, and how to increase our rate
> of
> >> literacy.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Steve Jacobson
> >>
> >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 18:51:39 -0400, HPS via Blindmath wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes to all Susan states, I'm a parent and my daughter is in 9th grade.
> I
> >> don't know how this will affect her right at a critical point in high
> >> school, and I'm not
> >> looking forward to dealing with all the extra stress this will bring.
> >> These are not simple changes as some have mentioned.
> >>
> >>
> >>> I like to know what to expect, and what to prepare her for. This is not
> >> just the job of her VI Teacher, who is still not sure what all the
> changes
> >> are either.
> >>
> >>
> >>> So, it seems that a lot was done and I had no idea about it til about 1
> >> year ago. Seems that if you don't belong to some organization you are
> out.
> >> There
> >> was not a lot of talk about this in any list, that seems weird to me.
> >>
> >>
> >>> I also since discovering this list have been interested in what all of
> >> your points of view are, specifically how these changes will impact any
> >> math and
> >> science students and professionals.
> >>
> >>
> >>> As with any change there are good things and bad things that come with
> >> it. In this case I do not care for the bad that this will bring, and
> these
> >> are my
> >> daughters feelings, she is not happy with any of the changes with
> Nemeth.
> >>
> >>
> >>> I apologize for any grammar mistakes as English is not my first
> language.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thank you,
> >>
> >>
> >>> Heidi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Susan Jolly via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >>> To: blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Sat, Mar 21, 2015 6:31 pm
> >>> Subject: [Blindmath] braille code changes and nemeth
> >>
> >>
> >>> I can't speak for others but here's why I'm still discussing it.
> >>
> >>> 1. A done
> >>> deal doesn't always stay done.  I thought UEB was done with in the
> >>> US back
> >>> when NFB passed Resolutions 2002-04 and 2002-05.
> >>> 2. I assume BANA is taking
> >>> into consideration how the transition was and is
> >>> going to be implemented in
> >>> other countries, especially in Australia and New
> >>> Zealand where the
> >>> implementations are pretty much complete.  These two
> >>> countries took a phased
> >>> approach so that older students weren't confronted
> >>> with a code change at
> >>> critical points in their educational careers.
> >>> Hopefully the more that parents,
> >>> teachers, and braille learners themselves
> >>> understand about the details, the
> >>> better the individual decisions they can
> >>> make as to timing.
> >>> 3. To my
> >>> knowledge no country other than the US has combined Nemeth math
> >>> with UEB text
> >>> so my guess is that the exact rules for how this is going to
> >>> be implemented
> >>> are still evolving and this is where the expertise of the
> >>> Blindmath community
> >>> will be helpful.  For example, the person who started
> >>> this thread pointed out
> >>> that there are questions about how best to integrate
> >>> the use of Nemeth for
> >>> displayed math with associated inline math references
> >>> to that displayed
> >>> math.
> >>
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>> Susan Jolly
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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> >>
> >>>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Be Here now.  Be someplace else later.  Is that so complicated? (Zen
> > Judaism)
> > <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/875661.Rumi>
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>

-- 
Be Here now.  Be someplace else later.  Is that so complicated? (Zen
Judaism)
 <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/875661.Rumi>