[Blindmath] Blindmath Digest, Vol 112, Issue 8
Mary Woodyard
marywoodyard at comcast.net
Thu Nov 12 14:05:10 UTC 2015
Sabra,
Frequently the assistant in the class is the one who is making the test or
homework accessible for you in K-12 settings. In my son's case, the
university has their own testing center where I believe they accommodate the
materials so that would not be the case for him in his university setting.
But it was in his K-12 setting. Also, in many math and science classes
there could be some alternative manipulatives for geometry or graphing that
an assistant could be securing from another teacher so the materials are
available for your lecture in your STEM class. Depending on the professor's
class size - he may or may not have time to secure the materials. Did you
spend time with him during his office hours where you could go through
whatever issues you struggled with? Are there any STEM homework labs setup
where you can get help for whatever it was you struggled with?
Every education setting is so different - it's hard to generalize when an
assistant might be needed or not. Some facilities (or disability
coordinators) are very black and white and cannot understand why you may
need an assistant in ceramics but not a STEM lecture class. I know in some
of my son's STEM classes they were lecture two days and week and then a lab
the third. He may need an assistant (or a friend to be the assistant) for
some of the labs but not all of them. He is like you - if he does not need
an assistant - he does not want them there. However, in K-12 he had to have
one all the time in order to have one part of the time - that is just how
their administrative processes worked. Both he and his teachers would ask
them to leave any lecture class (particularly lit or history) if she was not
needed though and then she spent time preparing materials for his other
classes.
I would think a little bit about how your school is organized and why the
school thinks having that assistant would have made a difference to you. It
could just be a well-intentioned disability coordinator that does not
understand your needs that you can educate. Sometimes that is really hard
if they can't think "out of their box" about what you need though. Good
Luck!
Mary Woodyard
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 7:00 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 112, Issue 8
Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
blindmath at nfbnet.org
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Seeking Field Evaluators for Tactile Algebra Tiles (Li Zhou)
2. Re: Making the University classroom more accessible
(Mary Woodyard)
3. Question about having an assistant in the classroom for stem
subjects (Sabra Ewing)
4. Re: Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects (George Bell)
5. Re: Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects (Dave M. Thomas)
6. Re: Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects (Natalya D)
7. Re: Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects (Suzanne Germano)
8. Re: Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects (Sabra Ewing)
9. Re: Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects (Sabra Ewing)
10. Re: Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects (annajee82 at gmail.com)
11. Re: Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects (derek riemer)
12. MathPlayer 4.0 beta 1 and Microsoft Word documents
(Bishop, Jeff - (jeffbis))
13. Re: MathPlayer 4.0 beta 1 and Microsoft Word documents
(derek riemer)
14. Re: MathPlayer 4.0 beta 1 and Microsoft Word documents
(Bishop, Jeff - (jeffbis))
15. Query (ronak shah)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:48:08 -0500
From: Li Zhou <lzhou.backup at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] Seeking Field Evaluators for Tactile Algebra
Tiles
Message-ID:
<CAJX++jhS5wRQbWtdjBAYb7aCj1hWK8ojon1vyW9dBcqbmCnSnA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Dear teachers of students with visual impairments:
APH is seeking field evaluators for Tactile Algebra Tiles. Algebra
tiles is a well-known mathematical tool that provides students with
concrete models for abstract algebraic concepts and procedures. The
tiles can represent both variables and constants and can be used by
students in elementary through high school for adding, subtracting,
and multiplying integers, simplifying expressions, solving linear and
quadratic equations, and for adding, subtracting, multiplying, and
factoring polynomials. The tiles provide the student with an
alternative to abstract manipulation by giving them a graphical way to
solve algebraic problems. In this way, the tool helps meet the
students? diverse needs in algebra study. The Tactile Algebra Tiles is
an accessible version of algebra tiles, specifically designed for
students with blindness and low vision.
Field evaluators will be asked to use Tactile Algebra Tiles with
multiple math students with blindness or low vision. Evaluators will
then complete and return a product evaluation form at the end of the
testing period. Field test sites will be selected based upon
geographic location, number of available students, and type of
instructional setting. The field test will begin in January and be
completed by the end of April 2016.
If you are interested in serving as a field evaluator, please
provide the following information:
a. your name, title, school/agency, and type of setting (e.g.,
residential, itinerant);
b. your previous experience with algebra tiles (e.g., have you ever
used algebra tiles to teach or learn any math concepts);
c. number of available students with ages, grade levels, and primary
reading media indicated (please note that elementary, middle, and high
school students who are studying basic calculations, linear or
quadratic equations, or polynomials are preferred);
d. your preferred medium for reading evaluation materials and
completing the evaluation form (regular print/large
print/braille/electronic); and
e. your complete contact information (phone number, mailing address,
and e-mail address).
Please send this information to Li Zhou, Core Curriculum Project
Leader, at lzhou at aph.org by December 31, 2015. You may also contact Li
at 800-223-1839, ext. 424. Thank you!
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 09:48:34 -0500
From: "Mary Woodyard" <marywoodyard at comcast.net>
To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Making the University classroom more
accessible
Message-ID: <009201d11c90$0b1fb230$215f1690$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would recommend posting your questionnaire on several Facebook groups.
The ACB (American Council of the Blind) Student Group and also The Parents
of Blind & Visually Impaired Children group. I know for a fact that the
majority of Scholarship winners from ACB Students are college STEM students.
My son was lucky enough to receive a scholarship this year and he was one of
only winners that was not a STEM student. (He is majoring in Japanese and
wants to go to Law School.)
The Parents group will probably give you a lot of feedback about what needs
to be developed. I think you are moving in the correct direction with
graphing. Particularly 3d graphing. In my son's high school, we checked
with the Engineering teachers and they said they would share their 3d
printer with us - but the Special Ed department would have to pay for all
the materials as their budget was very tight and the materials were very
expensive. At least it's a start!
He is in college now at UGA and the Disability Resource Center is very
helpful. I believe the NFB has a student Facebook also but don't know the
name. If you search - you will find it. I would post it there also.
Mary Woodyard
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 7:00 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
blindmath at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Making the University classroom more accessible
(hpscheffer at aol.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 07:08:44 -0500
From: hpscheffer at aol.com
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Making the University classroom more
accessible
Message-ID: <A065194E-C62A-4B50-B60B-B47235D6B126 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi I recommend you check out Dr Robinsons site at www.yourtechvision.com
she's fabulous with accessing the inaccessible but surely there's more to be
discovered in making graphs tactile in real time.
Heidi
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 5, 2015, at 12:19 PM, Goda Biek?ait? via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Please, if there are any experiences that anyone could share - that
> would be great! Any feedback would be of great help!
>
> Cheers,
> Goda
>
> 2015-11-05 17:16 GMT+00:00 Goda Biek?ait? <goda.bieksaite at gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi Vincent!
>>
>> Thank you so much for the reply. I suppose our description of what we
>> do or where we are in the project is not clear.... Sorry about that.
>> Basically, since all of us in the team are sighted, we tried and
>> reach out to students that are visually impaired and schools, but we
>> had such a low response rate. And as the lady in our chemistry
>> faculty has said - there's a lot of research fatigue. And we fully
>> understand it. However, we really want to try and understand the
>> problem. And...a silly and as ignorant as this will sound, we
>> genuinely don't know how visually impaired students understand
>> geometry and graphs, 2d and 3d objects. And without having anyone to
>> talk to...we had to rely on the internet. And that is why our
questionnaire is so broad.
>>
>> In regards of what we're trying to achieve. We are not trying to
>> create a new tech solution. We are well aware that creating a new
>> piece of technology is not the solution, as that is yet another thing
>> to master, to get used to, to implement an it's just not financially
feasible either.
>> What we would aim to do is find a way to improve current technology
>> or software or adapt something to a current software. For example, to
>> aid in understanding chemical molecule diagrams, one of our
>> university researchers created a system as a plugin for JAWS and NVDA
>> to translate a bitmap image of the molecule graph into a multilayer
>> audible system. It's not something new but a small addition to what
>> already exists. We are aiming to do something similar.
>>
>> If you could give us any feedback at all. Of what it feels like to be
>> a visually impaired student doing a science degree, what frustrated
>> you or anything at all that you could tell - that would greatly help
>> us! Also this is just... It literally made us jump from excitement
>> that we have replies! We possibly have people to talk to!!!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Goda
>>
>> 2015-11-05 16:37 GMT+00:00 vincent martin <vincent.martin at gatech.edu>:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I am a totally blind Ph.D. student in Human Centered Computing at
>>> Georgia Tech. I have previously earned four STEM degrees. I have
>>> worked as a rehabilitation engineer and research scientist and have
>>> advise a number of undergraduate and graduate level teams on similar
>>> projects. The first thing I always advise the teams to do is a very
>>> thoroughly literature review. As a graduate student doing research,
>>> it would be the first thing you would normally consider, but most
>>> undergraduates have never been taught how or why to do it.
>>> What you are asking in your survey is far too wide of a scope to
>>> assist you. You can end up going in so many directions and may end
>>> up recreating the exact thing that someone just did a few months
>>> ago. You can search the Journal of the Visually Impaired and the
>>> Blind, ACM's SIG Access (ASSETS) and the SIGCHI (CHI) journals for a
>>> vast number of projects related to creating access for people with
visual disabilities.
>>> You can also just use any search engine for search words pertaining
>>> to this topic and the browser will give you many directions to go
>>> int. So many products/projects end up on some news program, but
>>> really are just class projects created for a class for too many times to
count.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Goda Biek?aite via Blindmath
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:23 AM
>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Goda Biek?ait? <goda.bieksaite at gmail.com>; Lily Elshaktori <
>>> lilyelshaktori at gmail.com>; Priyanka Mohata <pmohata.95 at gmail.com>;
>>> Gareth Humphries <garethjhumphries at gmail.com>; Poppie Simmonds <
>>> poppie.leigh at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [Blindmath] Making the University classroom more accessible
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>>
>>> We are 3rd year Computer Science students at the University of
Birmingham.
>>> As part of our course, we are studying a module called Software
>>> Design Study, in which we research and design a solution to an
>>> existing real life problem. Our team is looking into further aiding
>>> visually impaired students in a classroom setting.
>>>
>>> We are in the early stages of our research and would like to speak
>>> with as many visually impaired students, teachers of the visually
>>> impaired or anyone else who works in this area.We would like to get
>>> a better understanding of learning and teaching techniques used,
>>> problems faced and areas for improvement.
>>>
>>>
>>> We have made a questionnaire and it would help us greatly if you
>>> could answer some or all of the questions, and if there is anything
>>> that you would like to add, or even if you would just want to share
>>> your experience
>>> - we would really appreciate it.
>>>
>>>
>>> We can't wait to hear from you,
>>>
>>> Goda
>>>
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>>
>>>
>>> If you?re a student:
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> What software are you using in the classroom currently?
>>> -
>>>
>>> How accessible is it?
>>> -
>>>
>>> How easy to master is it?
>>> -
>>>
>>> On average, how much time do you spend using the assistive software
>>> in the classroom?
>>> -
>>>
>>> Did you go to a school or university for visually impaired?
>>> -
>>>
>>> IF YES:
>>> -
>>>
>>> What techniques did they use to teach mathematics?
>>> -
>>>
>>> How did they explain the different geometrical objects? Both 3d
>>> and 2d.
>>> -
>>>
>>> How did they explain graphs and visual representations of
>>> formulae?
>>> -
>>>
>>> What techniques are used to draw and represent graphs?
>>> -
>>>
>>> IF NO:
>>> -
>>>
>>> What techniques did the teachers use to integrate visually
>>> impaired into the classroom?
>>> -
>>>
>>> Did the teachers write and explain things on the board, if so
how
>>> did they accommodate you?
>>> -
>>>
>>> Did you have anyone or use any special technology to assist
>>> you in
>>> the classroom?
>>> -
>>>
>>> Was there anything that you think you missed out in the
>>> lectures/lessons?
>>> -
>>>
>>> If you could change one thing about how the lectures are going at the
>>> moment and the support that you get - what would it be?
>>> -
>>>
>>> What would be a perfect piece of technology for you (regardless of
what
>>> has been created already. Please. Go wild)
>>>
>>>
>>> If you?re a teacher:
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> What techniques have you used to better accommodate the visually
>>> impaired students?
>>> -
>>>
>>> What difficulties have you noticed that visually impaired students
>>> encounter?
>>> -
>>>
>>> What subjects and areas do the students struggle the most?
>>> -
>>>
>>> What support systems/technologies do you use in your classroom or for
>>> preparation for the classes?
>>> -
>>>
>>> What additional preparation do you make to cater for visually impaired
>>> students in the classroom?
>>> -
>>>
>>> How familiar are you with the assistive technologies that the students
>>> might use?
>>> -
>>>
>>> How did you explain (if you ever had to) graphs, geometric forms,
>>> 3d and
>>> 2d objects, trajectories and distances?
>>> -
>>>
>>> What support do you get from your University or School/College?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> Blindmath:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.marti
>>> n%40gatech.edu
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
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Blindmath:
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> l.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
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------------------------------
End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
*****************************************
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:21:23 -0600
From: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the
classroom for stem subjects
Message-ID: <15A27186-30EE-47EB-BF54-C12EA9DB3184 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am having trouble understanding the concept of using an assistant in the
classroom for lecture style stem subjects as it relates to blindness. It is
getting to the point where it is becoming a problem in my interactions with
people who believe that blind people should have assistance for these
subjects. I understand that if you are paralyzed, you would use an assistant
in lecture to take notes for you because you can't write with a pencil and
maybe you can't use an alternative device to take notes on a computer. I
understand that if you are deaf, you would use an assistant to translate
everything from English to sign language, you could have a condition that
would make you run around for no reason or not be able to stay on task in an
assistant would help with that. However, none of those apply to me. Let's
say A blind student is in a lecture. It could be anything like math,
science, or programming. If that person had an assistant in the classroom,
what with the assistant do? If the assistant is supposed to be taking notes,
why can the student not take their own notes and why has an assistant been
chosen instead of removing excess ability barriers? I am just really trying
to understand this, and I'm not going to go into details, but I am in a
situation where I need a rational explanation for why I did not have an
assistant in one of my stem classes. After fourth grade, I never really had
an assistant in the classroom. If you are saying to just think about why I
had an assistant in the fourth grade and before, I tried that, but I can't
remember why. In the future if I am offered an assistant for class, should I
just take it even if I don't know why so the professor can't blame any
problems that occur in the class on the lack of an assistant? It would seem
wrong to have an assistant just for that though. I had an assistant and my
ceramics class who helped me find things in the room and know how to use the
tools and glaze and keep track of my pieces, but I did not do any of those
activities in a stem class. I have really tried to think very hard about it
even though it doesn't seem like it, but I just get more confused.
Sabra Ewing
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 22:33:19 +0000
From: George Bell <george at techno-vision.co.uk>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the
classroom for stem subjects
Message-ID:
<CB5A63C3B62C434280AA0E884CB604161507C7D1 at TECHNO.tvs.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This can often depend on the subject of the lecture, and equally importantly
the awareness of the lecturer that a blind student is present.
PowerPoint displays are a classic. Text is often displayed, but all too
often not actually spoken.
Just one example.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sabra
Ewing via Blindmath
Sent: 11 November 2015 22:21
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
Subject: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects
I am having trouble understanding the concept of using an assistant in the
classroom for lecture style stem subjects as it relates to blindness. It is
getting to the point where it is becoming a problem in my interactions with
people who believe that blind people should have assistance for these
subjects. I understand that if you are paralyzed, you would use an assistant
in lecture to take notes for you because you can't write with a pencil and
maybe you can't use an alternative device to take notes on a computer. I
understand that if you are deaf, you would use an assistant to translate
everything from English to sign language, you could have a condition that
would make you run around for no reason or not be able to stay on task in an
assistant would help with that. However, none of those apply to me. Let's
say A blind student is in a lecture. It could be anything like math,
science, or programming. If that person had an assistant in the classroom,
what with the assistant do? If the assistant is supposed to be taking notes,
why can the student not take their own notes and why has an assistant been
chosen instead of removing excess ability barriers? I am just really trying
to understand this, and I'm not going to go into details, but I am in a
situation where I need a rational explanation for why I did not have an
assistant in one of my stem classes. After fourth grade, I never really had
an assistant in the classroom. If you are saying to just think about why I
had an assistant in the fourth grade and before, I tried that, but I can't
remember why. In the future if I am offered an assistant for class, should I
just take it even if I don't know why so the professor can't blame any
problems that occur in the class on the lack of an assistant? It would seem
wrong to have an assistant just for that though. I had an assistant and my
ceramics class who helped me find things in the room and know how to use the
tools and glaze and keep track of my pieces, but I did not do any of those
activities in a stem class. I have really tried to think very hard about it
even though it doesn't seem like it, but I just get more confused.
Sabra Ewing
_______________________________________________
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Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/george%40techno-visio
n.co.uk
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<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 22:46:29 +0000
From: "Dave M. Thomas" <Dave.M.Thomas at studentlife.du.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the
classroom for stem subjects
Message-ID:
<CY1PR11MB0668FF885FEA453BA5752A7B87130 at CY1PR11MB0668.namprd11.prod.outlook.
com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sabra,
You do not come across as being at all confused to me I think you're spot
on. Blind people can and do perform perfectly well without assistants in
STEM lecture classes. As was the case in your Ceramics course, there might
be times in STEM labs when some assistance would be helpful ... for example,
in a chemistry lab. But you are right about not needing it in the lecture
classes.
Dave
Dave Thomas, M.A.
Academic Counselor, Learning Effectiveness Program
University of Denver
Katherine A. Ruffatto Hall, #424
1999 E. Evans Ave.
Denver, CO 80208
Phone: 303-871-7758
Fax: 303-871-3939
E-mail: dave.m.thomas at du.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sabra
Ewing via Blindmath
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 3:21 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Sabra Ewing
Subject: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the classroom for
stem subjects
I am having trouble understanding the concept of using an assistant in the
classroom for lecture style stem subjects as it relates to blindness. It is
getting to the point where it is becoming a problem in my interactions with
people who believe that blind people should have assistance for these
subjects. I understand that if you are paralyzed, you would use an assistant
in lecture to take notes for you because you can't write with a pencil and
maybe you can't use an alternative device to take notes on a computer. I
understand that if you are deaf, you would use an assistant to translate
everything from English to sign language, you could have a condition that
would make you run around for no reason or not be able to stay on task in an
assistant would help with that. However, none of those apply to me. Let's
say A blind student is in a lecture. It could be anything like math,
science, or programming. If that person had an assistant in the classroom,
what with the assistant do? If the
assistant is supposed to be taking notes, why can the student not take
their own notes and why has an assistant been chosen instead of removing
excess ability barriers? I am just really trying to understand this, and I'm
not going to go into details, but I am in a situation where I need a
rational explanation for why I did not have an assistant in one of my stem
classes. After fourth grade, I never really had an assistant in the
classroom. If you are saying to just think about why I had an assistant in
the fourth grade and before, I tried that, but I can't remember why. In the
future if I am offered an assistant for class, should I just take it even if
I don't know why so the professor can't blame any problems that occur in the
class on the lack of an assistant? It would seem wrong to have an assistant
just for that though. I had an assistant and my ceramics class who helped me
find things in the room and know how to use the tools and glaze and keep
track of my pieces, but I did no
t do any of those activities in a stem class. I have really tried to think
very hard about it even though it doesn't seem like it, but I just get more
confused.
Sabra Ewing
_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/dave.m.thomas%40stude
ntlife.du.edu
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 22:59:11 +0000
From: Natalya D <natalya.dell at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the
classroom for stem subjects
Message-ID: <5643C83F.5080401 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Hi Sabra,
I work with "disabled students" including blind and partially sighted
students in a UK university and not all of them have an assistant in all
classes. Where I work, having an assistant is entirely the student's
choice and can be minimised if the student is given good prep materials
and has strong skills for managing recording the session and or
notetaking etc.
I have some totally blind students who don't use an assistant at all in
lecture classes or only use an assistant in a handful of specific
classes when they request it and they are fine.
I'm sorry you sound like you're being pushed to have an assistant when
you don't need that. As a disabled person myself I am familiar with the
experience of my requests being ignored and "disability support options"
being pushed at or forced upon me.
Natalya
On 11/11/2015 22:46, Dave M. Thomas via Blindmath wrote:
> Sabra,
>
> You do not come across as being at all confused to me I think you're spot
on. Blind people can and do perform perfectly well without assistants in
STEM lecture classes. As was the case in your Ceramics course, there might
be times in STEM labs when some assistance would be helpful ... for example,
in a chemistry lab. But you are right about not needing it in the lecture
classes.
>
> Dave
>
>
> Dave Thomas, M.A.
> Academic Counselor, Learning Effectiveness Program
> University of Denver
> Katherine A. Ruffatto Hall, #424
> 1999 E. Evans Ave.
> Denver, CO 80208
> Phone: 303-871-7758
> Fax: 303-871-3939
> E-mail: dave.m.thomas at du.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sabra
Ewing via Blindmath
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 3:21 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Sabra Ewing
> Subject: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the classroom
for stem subjects
>
> I am having trouble understanding the concept of using an assistant in the
classroom for lecture style stem subjects as it relates to blindness. It is
getting to the point where it is becoming a problem in my interactions with
people who believe that blind people should have assistance for these
subjects. I understand that if you are paralyzed, you would use an assistant
in lecture to take notes for you because you can't write with a pencil and
maybe you can't use an alternative device to take notes on a computer. I
understand that if you are deaf, you would use an assistant to translate
everything from English to sign language, you could have a condition that
would make you run around for no reason or not be able to stay on task in an
assistant would help with that. However, none of those apply to me. Let's
say A blind student is in a lecture. It could be anything like math,
science, or programming. If that person had an assistant in the classroom,
what with the assistant do? If
the
> assistant is supposed to be taking notes, why can the student not take
their own notes and why has an assistant been chosen instead of removing
excess ability barriers? I am just really trying to understand this, and I'm
not going to go into details, but I am in a situation where I need a
rational explanation for why I did not have an assistant in one of my stem
classes. After fourth grade, I never really had an assistant in the
classroom. If you are saying to just think about why I had an assistant in
the fourth grade and before, I tried that, but I can't remember why. In the
future if I am offered an assistant for class, should I just take it even if
I don't know why so the professor can't blame any problems that occur in the
class on the lack of an assistant? It would seem wrong to have an assistant
just for that though. I had an assistant and my ceramics class who helped me
find things in the room and know how to use the tools and glaze and keep
track of my pieces, but I di
d no
> t do any of those activities in a stem class. I have really tried to
think very hard about it even though it doesn't seem like it, but I just get
more confused.
>
> Sabra Ewing
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/dave.m.thomas%40stude
ntlife.du.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/natalya.dell%40gmail.
com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:07:03 -0700
From: Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the
classroom for stem subjects
Message-ID:
<CAF=_avcjxbNRWeq2EMTQ1B8vKReAkGWPVT1kDkgKYMpfFuJBog at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Notetakers for blind students
I have partial vision so I use a cctv to se the board but I can say in my
stem classes: Calculus, linear algebra, several programming, theory of
computer science etc that the professors often do not verbalize much of
what is on the board or on the power points. They also like to use laser
points and say things like "you start here and then go to here and then
here before you finally get to here." So not at all helpful if you can not
see it. Even the ones that try to remember things like I am color blind
will often forget and say "the area circled in green"
So there are situations where depending on the student and the professor
that a notetaker may be beneficial
I have used lab assistants in courses like chemistry to tell me color
changes. I prefer not to use another student as they may not be doing
things right or understand the lab being performed. The couple of times I
asked for someone in the lab, I requested somewhere who was majoring in the
subject and well above the course I was taking.
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Dave M. Thomas via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Sabra,
>
> You do not come across as being at all confused to me I think you're spot
> on. Blind people can and do perform perfectly well without assistants in
> STEM lecture classes. As was the case in your Ceramics course, there might
> be times in STEM labs when some assistance would be helpful ... for
> example, in a chemistry lab. But you are right about not needing it in the
> lecture classes.
>
> Dave
>
>
> Dave Thomas, M.A.
> Academic Counselor, Learning Effectiveness Program
> University of Denver
> Katherine A. Ruffatto Hall, #424
> 1999 E. Evans Ave.
> Denver, CO 80208
> Phone: 303-871-7758
> Fax: 303-871-3939
> E-mail: dave.m.thomas at du.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sabra
> Ewing via Blindmath
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 3:21 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Sabra Ewing
> Subject: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the classroom
> for stem subjects
>
> I am having trouble understanding the concept of using an assistant in the
> classroom for lecture style stem subjects as it relates to blindness. It
is
> getting to the point where it is becoming a problem in my interactions
with
> people who believe that blind people should have assistance for these
> subjects. I understand that if you are paralyzed, you would use an
> assistant in lecture to take notes for you because you can't write with a
> pencil and maybe you can't use an alternative device to take notes on a
> computer. I understand that if you are deaf, you would use an assistant to
> translate everything from English to sign language, you could have a
> condition that would make you run around for no reason or not be able to
> stay on task in an assistant would help with that. However, none of those
> apply to me. Let's say A blind student is in a lecture. It could be
> anything like math, science, or programming. If that person had an
> assistant in the classroom, what with the assistant do
>
> ? If the
> assistant is supposed to be taking notes, why can the student not take
> their own notes and why has an assistant been chosen instead of removing
> excess ability barriers? I am just really trying to understand this, and
> I'm not going to go into details, but I am in a situation where I need a
> rational explanation for why I did not have an assistant in one of my stem
> classes. After fourth grade, I never really had an assistant in the
> classroom. If you are saying to just think about why I had an assistant in
> the fourth grade and before, I tried that, but I can't remember why. In
the
> future if I am offered an assistant for class, should I just take it even
> if I don't know why so the professor can't blame any problems that occur
in
> the class on the lack of an assistant? It would seem wrong to have an
> assistant just for that though. I had an assistant and my ceramics class
> who helped me find things in the room and know how to use the tools and
> glaze and keep track of my pieces, but
>
> I did no
> t do any of those activities in a stem class. I have really tried to
> think very hard about it even though it doesn't seem like it, but I just
> get more confused.
>
> Sabra Ewing
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/dave.m.thomas%40stude
ntlife.du.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:57:00 -0600
From: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the
classroom for stem subjects
Message-ID: <0C005BE1-EBF6-4ACB-AB80-2F2245DAA9DE at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
But in the situation where the text on the PowerPoint was an image or
something, why would the test not just be made accessible outside the
classroom? If the excess ability as far as the professors descriptions is
really that bad, how do you get anything out of having an assistant who
might not even understand the material? Even if they do, how do you listen
to them and explain everything at the same time that you were trying to pay
attention to the lecture? Shouldn't you just have your own isolated lecture
then if the professor can't include you in the class?
Sabra Ewing
> On Nov 11, 2015, at 5:07 PM, Suzanne Germano via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Notetakers for blind students
>
> I have partial vision so I use a cctv to se the board but I can say in my
> stem classes: Calculus, linear algebra, several programming, theory of
> computer science etc that the professors often do not verbalize much of
> what is on the board or on the power points. They also like to use laser
> points and say things like "you start here and then go to here and then
> here before you finally get to here." So not at all helpful if you can not
> see it. Even the ones that try to remember things like I am color blind
> will often forget and say "the area circled in green"
>
> So there are situations where depending on the student and the professor
> that a notetaker may be beneficial
>
> I have used lab assistants in courses like chemistry to tell me color
> changes. I prefer not to use another student as they may not be doing
> things right or understand the lab being performed. The couple of times I
> asked for someone in the lab, I requested somewhere who was majoring in
the
> subject and well above the course I was taking.
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Dave M. Thomas via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Sabra,
>>
>> You do not come across as being at all confused to me I think you're spot
>> on. Blind people can and do perform perfectly well without assistants in
>> STEM lecture classes. As was the case in your Ceramics course, there
might
>> be times in STEM labs when some assistance would be helpful ... for
>> example, in a chemistry lab. But you are right about not needing it in
the
>> lecture classes.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> Dave Thomas, M.A.
>> Academic Counselor, Learning Effectiveness Program
>> University of Denver
>> Katherine A. Ruffatto Hall, #424
>> 1999 E. Evans Ave.
>> Denver, CO 80208
>> Phone: 303-871-7758
>> Fax: 303-871-3939
>> E-mail: dave.m.thomas at du.edu
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sabra
>> Ewing via Blindmath
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 3:21 PM
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Sabra Ewing
>> Subject: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the classroom
>> for stem subjects
>>
>> I am having trouble understanding the concept of using an assistant in
the
>> classroom for lecture style stem subjects as it relates to blindness. It
is
>> getting to the point where it is becoming a problem in my interactions
with
>> people who believe that blind people should have assistance for these
>> subjects. I understand that if you are paralyzed, you would use an
>> assistant in lecture to take notes for you because you can't write with a
>> pencil and maybe you can't use an alternative device to take notes on a
>> computer. I understand that if you are deaf, you would use an assistant
to
>> translate everything from English to sign language, you could have a
>> condition that would make you run around for no reason or not be able to
>> stay on task in an assistant would help with that. However, none of those
>> apply to me. Let's say A blind student is in a lecture. It could be
>> anything like math, science, or programming. If that person had an
>> assistant in the classroom, what with the assistant do
>>
>> ? If the
>> assistant is supposed to be taking notes, why can the student not take
>> their own notes and why has an assistant been chosen instead of removing
>> excess ability barriers? I am just really trying to understand this, and
>> I'm not going to go into details, but I am in a situation where I need a
>> rational explanation for why I did not have an assistant in one of my
stem
>> classes. After fourth grade, I never really had an assistant in the
>> classroom. If you are saying to just think about why I had an assistant
in
>> the fourth grade and before, I tried that, but I can't remember why. In
the
>> future if I am offered an assistant for class, should I just take it even
>> if I don't know why so the professor can't blame any problems that occur
in
>> the class on the lack of an assistant? It would seem wrong to have an
>> assistant just for that though. I had an assistant and my ceramics class
>> who helped me find things in the room and know how to use the tools and
>> glaze and keep track of my pieces, but
>>
>> I did no
>> t do any of those activities in a stem class. I have really tried to
>> think very hard about it even though it doesn't seem like it, but I just
>> get more confused.
>>
>> Sabra Ewing
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>>
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/dave.m.thomas%40stude
ntlife.du.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:01:44 -0600
From: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the
classroom for stem subjects
Message-ID: <71425603-52F1-4036-B5A7-79D2D4C446B5 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Basically, I am having a situation where I had problems in a lecture style
course. It came up while at resolving these problems that the professor said
I declined an assistant at the beginning of the class, implying that if I
had an assistant, everything would have been hunky-dory. I know that the
problems I had had nothing to do with whether assistant or present or not.
The only thing I think an assistant would have been useful for is as a
witness to things that happened inside the classroom. Because I can't even
understand what an assistant is supposed to do in a situation like mine, I
can't explain why the lack of an assistant did not cause my problems.
Sabra Ewing
> On Nov 11, 2015, at 5:07 PM, Suzanne Germano via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Notetakers for blind students
>
> I have partial vision so I use a cctv to se the board but I can say in my
> stem classes: Calculus, linear algebra, several programming, theory of
> computer science etc that the professors often do not verbalize much of
> what is on the board or on the power points. They also like to use laser
> points and say things like "you start here and then go to here and then
> here before you finally get to here." So not at all helpful if you can not
> see it. Even the ones that try to remember things like I am color blind
> will often forget and say "the area circled in green"
>
> So there are situations where depending on the student and the professor
> that a notetaker may be beneficial
>
> I have used lab assistants in courses like chemistry to tell me color
> changes. I prefer not to use another student as they may not be doing
> things right or understand the lab being performed. The couple of times I
> asked for someone in the lab, I requested somewhere who was majoring in
the
> subject and well above the course I was taking.
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Dave M. Thomas via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Sabra,
>>
>> You do not come across as being at all confused to me I think you're spot
>> on. Blind people can and do perform perfectly well without assistants in
>> STEM lecture classes. As was the case in your Ceramics course, there
might
>> be times in STEM labs when some assistance would be helpful ... for
>> example, in a chemistry lab. But you are right about not needing it in
the
>> lecture classes.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> Dave Thomas, M.A.
>> Academic Counselor, Learning Effectiveness Program
>> University of Denver
>> Katherine A. Ruffatto Hall, #424
>> 1999 E. Evans Ave.
>> Denver, CO 80208
>> Phone: 303-871-7758
>> Fax: 303-871-3939
>> E-mail: dave.m.thomas at du.edu
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sabra
>> Ewing via Blindmath
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 3:21 PM
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Sabra Ewing
>> Subject: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the classroom
>> for stem subjects
>>
>> I am having trouble understanding the concept of using an assistant in
the
>> classroom for lecture style stem subjects as it relates to blindness. It
is
>> getting to the point where it is becoming a problem in my interactions
with
>> people who believe that blind people should have assistance for these
>> subjects. I understand that if you are paralyzed, you would use an
>> assistant in lecture to take notes for you because you can't write with a
>> pencil and maybe you can't use an alternative device to take notes on a
>> computer. I understand that if you are deaf, you would use an assistant
to
>> translate everything from English to sign language, you could have a
>> condition that would make you run around for no reason or not be able to
>> stay on task in an assistant would help with that. However, none of those
>> apply to me. Let's say A blind student is in a lecture. It could be
>> anything like math, science, or programming. If that person had an
>> assistant in the classroom, what with the assistant do
>>
>> ? If the
>> assistant is supposed to be taking notes, why can the student not take
>> their own notes and why has an assistant been chosen instead of removing
>> excess ability barriers? I am just really trying to understand this, and
>> I'm not going to go into details, but I am in a situation where I need a
>> rational explanation for why I did not have an assistant in one of my
stem
>> classes. After fourth grade, I never really had an assistant in the
>> classroom. If you are saying to just think about why I had an assistant
in
>> the fourth grade and before, I tried that, but I can't remember why. In
the
>> future if I am offered an assistant for class, should I just take it even
>> if I don't know why so the professor can't blame any problems that occur
in
>> the class on the lack of an assistant? It would seem wrong to have an
>> assistant just for that though. I had an assistant and my ceramics class
>> who helped me find things in the room and know how to use the tools and
>> glaze and keep track of my pieces, but
>>
>> I did no
>> t do any of those activities in a stem class. I have really tried to
>> think very hard about it even though it doesn't seem like it, but I just
>> get more confused.
>>
>> Sabra Ewing
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>>
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/dave.m.thomas%40stude
ntlife.du.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 21:20:37 -0700
From: annajee82 at gmail.com
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the
classroom for stem subjects
Message-ID: <225EAC12-68E4-4C24-9F9E-FF76A48773B5 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sabra,
Often blind students studying STEM subjects do not have assistants.
However, I have known some that have used assistants at times, even in
lecture classes. For example, someone in a chemistry class had an assistant
who was an art major sit in the lectures and draw shapes and structures and
diagrams on a tactile drawing board as the instructor drew it on the
board. This allowed the blind student to feel what the other students were
seeing, that was not or could not very well be verbalized. This is just one
of many examples.
Ultimately, it should be the blind student's choice whether they use an
assistant, and who that assistant is if they choose to have one.
I do not know what problems you had in your class exactly, but having an
assistant or not having an assistant is irrelevant if the instructor is
doing their job to include all students.
An assistant can do whatever you want them to do. And if you have a way of
doing things you need to do in a class without an assistant then it is
between you and your instructor to work it out, potentially with the help of
your disability resource office.
Anna E Givens
> On Nov 11, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Sabra Ewing via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Basically, I am having a situation where I had problems in a lecture style
course. It came up while at resolving these problems that the professor said
I declined an assistant at the beginning of the class, implying that if I
had an assistant, everything would have been hunky-dory. I know that the
problems I had had nothing to do with whether assistant or present or not.
The only thing I think an assistant would have been useful for is as a
witness to things that happened inside the classroom. Because I can't even
understand what an assistant is supposed to do in a situation like mine, I
can't explain why the lack of an assistant did not cause my problems.
>
> Sabra Ewing
>
>> On Nov 11, 2015, at 5:07 PM, Suzanne Germano via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Notetakers for blind students
>>
>> I have partial vision so I use a cctv to se the board but I can say in my
>> stem classes: Calculus, linear algebra, several programming, theory of
>> computer science etc that the professors often do not verbalize much of
>> what is on the board or on the power points. They also like to use laser
>> points and say things like "you start here and then go to here and then
>> here before you finally get to here." So not at all helpful if you can
not
>> see it. Even the ones that try to remember things like I am color blind
>> will often forget and say "the area circled in green"
>>
>> So there are situations where depending on the student and the professor
>> that a notetaker may be beneficial
>>
>> I have used lab assistants in courses like chemistry to tell me color
>> changes. I prefer not to use another student as they may not be doing
>> things right or understand the lab being performed. The couple of times I
>> asked for someone in the lab, I requested somewhere who was majoring in
the
>> subject and well above the course I was taking.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Dave M. Thomas via Blindmath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Sabra,
>>>
>>> You do not come across as being at all confused to me I think you're
spot
>>> on. Blind people can and do perform perfectly well without assistants in
>>> STEM lecture classes. As was the case in your Ceramics course, there
might
>>> be times in STEM labs when some assistance would be helpful ... for
>>> example, in a chemistry lab. But you are right about not needing it in
the
>>> lecture classes.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Thomas, M.A.
>>> Academic Counselor, Learning Effectiveness Program
>>> University of Denver
>>> Katherine A. Ruffatto Hall, #424
>>> 1999 E. Evans Ave.
>>> Denver, CO 80208
>>> Phone: 303-871-7758
>>> Fax: 303-871-3939
>>> E-mail: dave.m.thomas at du.edu
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sabra
>>> Ewing via Blindmath
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 3:21 PM
>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Sabra Ewing
>>> Subject: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the classroom
>>> for stem subjects
>>>
>>> I am having trouble understanding the concept of using an assistant in
the
>>> classroom for lecture style stem subjects as it relates to blindness. It
is
>>> getting to the point where it is becoming a problem in my interactions
with
>>> people who believe that blind people should have assistance for these
>>> subjects. I understand that if you are paralyzed, you would use an
>>> assistant in lecture to take notes for you because you can't write with
a
>>> pencil and maybe you can't use an alternative device to take notes on a
>>> computer. I understand that if you are deaf, you would use an assistant
to
>>> translate everything from English to sign language, you could have a
>>> condition that would make you run around for no reason or not be able to
>>> stay on task in an assistant would help with that. However, none of
those
>>> apply to me. Let's say A blind student is in a lecture. It could be
>>> anything like math, science, or programming. If that person had an
>>> assistant in the classroom, what with the assistant do
>>>
>>> ? If the
>>> assistant is supposed to be taking notes, why can the student not take
>>> their own notes and why has an assistant been chosen instead of removing
>>> excess ability barriers? I am just really trying to understand this, and
>>> I'm not going to go into details, but I am in a situation where I need a
>>> rational explanation for why I did not have an assistant in one of my
stem
>>> classes. After fourth grade, I never really had an assistant in the
>>> classroom. If you are saying to just think about why I had an assistant
in
>>> the fourth grade and before, I tried that, but I can't remember why. In
the
>>> future if I am offered an assistant for class, should I just take it
even
>>> if I don't know why so the professor can't blame any problems that occur
in
>>> the class on the lack of an assistant? It would seem wrong to have an
>>> assistant just for that though. I had an assistant and my ceramics class
>>> who helped me find things in the room and know how to use the tools and
>>> glaze and keep track of my pieces, but
>>>
>>> I did no
>>> t do any of those activities in a stem class. I have really tried to
>>> think very hard about it even though it doesn't seem like it, but I just
>>> get more confused.
>>>
>>> Sabra Ewing
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>>
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/dave.m.thomas%40stude
ntlife.du.edu
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/annajee82%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 22:07:27 -0700
From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question about having an assistant in the
classroom for stem subjects
Message-ID: <56441E8F.1060504 at colorado.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
For example, in my linear algebra class, we would often have complex
matrices like
1 2 5 4
4 5 0 0
5 1 0 0
4 0 0 0
and then the professor would say something like "now we will find the
determinant of this by blablabla" and show a formula without verbalizing
it. In that case, he had quite an accent, and a verry soft voice, which
meant hearing him correctly even in the front row was sometimes a bit tough.
In many stem courses, they often would have complex rules on the board,
such as notation that wasn't necessarily easy for an instructor to
speak. For these kinds of classes, and for my coding classes, where lots
of code may be shown, but not articulated perfectly syntactically
correct, having the notetaker is essential to ensure the proper visual
information is written down. It shouldn't make you feel lazy or like you
are a lesser person because you aren't taking all the notes, some of
these subjects just aren't being taught in perfectly universally
designed ways, and it's not going to change just because there is a
blind person in class, since instructors often aren't used to teaching
in this style. I agree. For some classes I have been in, my instructors
are great at adapting, but in many subjects, especially upper division
ones, the instructor unintentionally may introduce ambiguity into the
math or code. For example, in some random math class, my professor often
may say "x alpha plus phi of x plus 1 times the quantity x minus mu"
when she meant "x superscript alpha baseline plus ..." and not getting
those things down properly results in me thinking I have a subscript
when I should be raising something to a power. In some of my classes the
notetaker isn't an assistant, but just a random student who volunteered
to take notes, (the university compensates them usually in some way I
think). One of my friends who has been doing notetaking for a while for
coding classes I am in just places them into a google doc. She basically
gives me her copy of notes. In some of the classes like data structures,
is wasn't all that necessary, but in algorithms, many of the algorithms
had long proofs that had value in understanding. In short, she found it
useful to still give the notes to me because it helped her study for the
test by writing the notes again. If you don't find it necessary to have
an assistant, I would encourage you to let your disability services
office know, but I wouldn't close that door completely, because you may
very well need help in a complex course like linear algebra or
differential equations in the future, which is a perfectly reasonable
thing to request.
I hope this helps,.
On 11/11/2015 3:21 PM, Sabra Ewing via Blindmath wrote:
> I am having trouble understanding the concept of using an assistant in the
classroom for lecture style stem subjects as it relates to blindness. It is
getting to the point where it is becoming a problem in my interactions with
people who believe that blind people should have assistance for these
subjects. I understand that if you are paralyzed, you would use an assistant
in lecture to take notes for you because you can't write with a pencil and
maybe you can't use an alternative device to take notes on a computer. I
understand that if you are deaf, you would use an assistant to translate
everything from English to sign language, you could have a condition that
would make you run around for no reason or not be able to stay on task in an
assistant would help with that. However, none of those apply to me. Let's
say A blind student is in a lecture. It could be anything like math,
science, or programming. If that person had an assistant in the classroom,
what with the assistant do? If the assistant is supposed to be taking notes,
why can the student not take their own notes and why has an assistant been
chosen instead of removing excess ability barriers? I am just really trying
to understand this, and I'm not going to go into details, but I am in a
situation where I need a rational explanation for why I did not have an
assistant in one of my stem classes. After fourth grade, I never really had
an assistant in the classroom. If you are saying to just think about why I
had an assistant in the fourth grade and before, I tried that, but I can't
remember why. In the future if I am offered an assistant for class, should I
just take it even if I don't know why so the professor can't blame any
problems that occur in the class on the lack of an assistant? It would seem
wrong to have an assistant just for that though. I had an assistant and my
ceramics class who helped me find things in the room and know how to use the
tools and glaze and keep track of my pieces, but I did not do any of those
activities in a stem class. I have really tried to think very hard about it
even though it doesn't seem like it, but I just get more confused.
>
> Sabra Ewing
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colora
do.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Derek Riemer
* Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
* Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
* Open source enthusiast.
* Member of Bridge Cu
* Avid skiier.
Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
Non-proffessional website. <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
<http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 06:06:18 +0000
From: "Bishop, Jeff - (jeffbis)" <jeffbis at email.arizona.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] MathPlayer 4.0 beta 1 and Microsoft Word
documents
Message-ID: <4115dd9abcc04dceb0052a7984cdb54a at blue.catnet.arizona.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello,
Has anyone run into the situation where after installing NVDA 2015.3 and
MathPlayer 4.0 public beta 1 and MathType that equations will not read using
NVDA's math navigation keys? I have gotten it to work on one machine but
others have failed after following the same steps. NVDA is reporting that
the equation is "not math".
I am hoping others have seen this and found a solution. We are working with
a student here at the University where this is becoming critical. I am also
talking with Design Science on the issue as well.
Thanks for any help any of you might be able to provide.
Jeff Bishop
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 23:10:26 -0700
From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] MathPlayer 4.0 beta 1 and Microsoft Word
documents
Message-ID: <56442D52.3070108 at colorado.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Hi,
Can you verify nvda is saying the math correctly when you simply move
with the arrow keys to the equation? Which version of nvda are you
using? also, move the l and r arrow keys until nvda reports the equation
(assuming this works) and then try nvda+alt+m. Does this work? If not,
something isn't right, and it may take more digging.
On 11/11/2015 11:06 PM, Bishop, Jeff - (jeffbis) via Blindmath wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Has anyone run into the situation where after installing NVDA 2015.3 and
MathPlayer 4.0 public beta 1 and MathType that equations will not read using
NVDA's math navigation keys? I have gotten it to work on one machine but
others have failed after following the same steps. NVDA is reporting that
the equation is "not math".
>
> I am hoping others have seen this and found a solution. We are working
with a student here at the University where this is becoming critical. I am
also talking with Design Science on the issue as well.
>
> Thanks for any help any of you might be able to provide.
>
> Jeff Bishop
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colora
do.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Derek Riemer
* Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
* Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
* Open source enthusiast.
* Member of Bridge Cu
* Avid skiier.
Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
Non-proffessional website. <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
<http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 06:31:09 +0000
From: "Bishop, Jeff - (jeffbis)" <jeffbis at email.arizona.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] MathPlayer 4.0 beta 1 and Microsoft Word
documents
Message-ID: <0aff33fddf9f436e89b82e812d253d25 at blue.catnet.arizona.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yes, we are using NVDA 2015.3. Placing the cursor on the equation and
pressing NVDA+alt+m reports "not math". On one machine I got it to work
after installing MathType which according to Design Science is required even
though their web site does not mention this fact. They replied to me on
Twitter about this.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of derek
riemer via Blindmath
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 11:10 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] MathPlayer 4.0 beta 1 and Microsoft Word documents
Hi,
Can you verify nvda is saying the math correctly when you simply move with
the arrow keys to the equation? Which version of nvda are you using? also,
move the l and r arrow keys until nvda reports the equation (assuming this
works) and then try nvda+alt+m. Does this work? If not, something isn't
right, and it may take more digging.
On 11/11/2015 11:06 PM, Bishop, Jeff - (jeffbis) via Blindmath wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Has anyone run into the situation where after installing NVDA 2015.3 and
MathPlayer 4.0 public beta 1 and MathType that equations will not read using
NVDA's math navigation keys? I have gotten it to work on one machine but
others have failed after following the same steps. NVDA is reporting that
the equation is "not math".
>
> I am hoping others have seen this and found a solution. We are working
with a student here at the University where this is becoming critical. I am
also talking with Design Science on the issue as well.
>
> Thanks for any help any of you might be able to provide.
>
> Jeff Bishop
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40
> colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Derek Riemer
* Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
* Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
* Open source enthusiast.
* Member of Bridge Cu
* Avid skiier.
Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
Non-proffessional website. <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
<http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194
_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jeffbis%40email.arizo
na.edu
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 03:18:32 -0800
From: ronak shah <ronakshah.26397 at gmail.com>
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindmath] Query
Message-ID:
<CAMurVZbDXc7gGJW-2_QCVDftmOJOor3htOr=sm0ck1HtA03tEg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello.
I m a low vission student.
I am a jaws and NVDA user and i would like to know that, which edditer and
compiler can b used for the programing language like c++ and CG?
I used code blocks for a while but its not very compatable with screen
readers.
So if anyone could help me out, please do.
Thankyou so much.
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
------------------------------
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