[Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

Mon Nov 30 18:39:08 UTC 2015

I completely agree. In my last semester at university, I one day stepped
into the high-tech center at our disabled student services office to use one
of their computers, and from across the room I heard one of the assistants
describing what I thought was a very basic feature of Word--how to double
space a document. It then amazed me that she was talking to a Master's level
graduate school student friend also ready to graduate that semester. I asked
myself: how the heck could she have made it so far asking the most basic
questions of a software suite which is so universal and so omnipresent when
studying at a university? Since all research papers and such have to be
turned in with double spacing, this means she for years has been needing
help to complete this simple task. I then learned that a different previous
graduate student who was already employed was sending documents back and
forth to this Disabled Student's Services office so that the staff could run
OCR on her work documents. The point, these individuals were so coddled that
they never learned how to fend for themselves. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Godfrey,
Jonathan via Blindmath
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 10:22 AM
To: Bente; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

Hello Bente and all,

I think my comment is entirely appropriate, or at least as appropriate as
the original posting for this list. I welcome Maureen's questions and wish
others were as committed as she demonstrates through this list (frequently).

I know that there are many wonderful professionals that do think beyond
their students' immediate needs. I think there are many wonderful
professionals that take greater care to understand the best practices they
can for the best outcomes for their students; many of these people
demonstrate this commitment by joining lists such as this one. I also know
of professionals in the high school system that are overwhelmed by their
workloads and are somewhat forced into taking the fastest and easiest route
to get a student through the high school system successfully. Someone has to
help high school students transfer successfully into university students. In
my opinion the people in the best position to help smooth this transition
are the TVI's (N.B. US terminology)

While I am sure there are differences in the systems run in the US and the
numerous other countries represented on this list, we in New Zealand do have
an IEP for students. The first letter in the acronym in our IEP is
"Individual" so they are supposed to be tailored to the student's needs
during their primary and high school education with a view to the future
that awaits them once they leave the high school system.

There are so many additional skills a STEM student must have over and above
the set of skills a humanities or law student needs at university. In my
opinion, there are things that some professionals do that risks leaving a
student high and dry once they leave their care.

Frustrated no; concerned yes.
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bente via
Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 7:04 a.m.
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: Bente
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

Jonathan,

 You seem to be very frustrated, however, I think your question is a bit
difficult.  First of all this is a list serve for Mathematics and secondly
you are dealing with two completely different scenario's.  K -12 is covered
by an IEP.  Those things are no longer in play when a student goes to
college.  In college we deal with accommodations.  While I share your
frustration in many areas, I don't know that this forum is the place for
that.  Also, asking a professional to ask students how they perceived their
services to have failed them does not properly measure the services
provided.  The K-12 are bound to the IEP, so if it is documented in the IEP,
it must be done.  An example of this is a request in an IEP for a student to
be able to re-take a test until they pass it and yes it has been done.  Does
that prepare the student for college...absolutely not, BUT does it have to
be done...the answer is yes.

Bente J. Casile
Math Learning Specialist
Disability Support Services
Wake Technical Community College
Raleigh NC

> On November 30, 2015 at 12:53 PM "Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask 
> their former students what things they actively did that left them 
> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the questions 
> posed in Maureen's message.
>
> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack 
> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The 
> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer 
> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and 
> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are 
> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional skills
are needed.
>
> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come 
> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high school 
> so that they have experience before they get to university where there 
> are so many other new things to have to deal with.
>
> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach 
> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> derek riemer via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: derek riemer
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
> Hi,
> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce 
> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student 
> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format. 
> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many 
> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have 
> tactile feedback of the math. Also, having them transcribe math to you 
> as well as having them use a tool like nemetex will help them ensure 
> they are prepared for the process of converting math in college. I 
> don't know anyone in a college setting who can have a tvi or someone 
> interline their homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally 
> transcribe homework, especially in more complex courses. You can 
> mostly survive calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper 
> level courses such as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use 
> paper with braille to even understand the material. Some of it is 
> spacial enough that the tech isn't quite ready to present the math 
> correctly. Also, without a transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read 
> them what I wanted them to
> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing out 
> the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading it to 
> someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
> Hth.
>
> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
> > Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would 
> > you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years and
let me know:
> >
> > Did you have a TVI supporting you?
> > What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
> > What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
> >
> > Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my 
> > own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and strengths!!
> >
> > Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> > Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> > Bethlehem Central School District
> > Bethlehem High School
> > 700 Delaware Ave
> > Delmar, NY 12054
> > http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
> > Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through 
> > experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, 
> > ambition inspired, and success 
> > achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen 
> > Keller
> >
> >
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>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
> Derek Riemer
>
> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> * Open source enthusiast.
> * Member of Bridge Cu
> * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
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> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu 
> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
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