From ccmlhe at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 00:18:04 2016
From: ccmlhe at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Cecilia_Mart=C3=ADnez?=)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 19:18:04 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?
Message-ID: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone, I'm Ceci, and I just graduated from high school.
Since I didn't get to take the SAT while in high-school, I would like
to take it in november, so I can apply to college.
However, I'm not very good at math, so I was wondering if any of you
know of any resources I could use?
I already use the SAT math practice tests, but does any of you know of
any accessible online math courses or anything that might help me?
Thank you
Ceci



From cricketbidleman at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 00:23:26 2016
From: cricketbidleman at gmail.com (Cricket Bidleman)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 17:23:26 -0700
Subject: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABP7S8Oz7ch6FTMP3P7Kh5rDZshTJ578x2H5Md1nPDd52kaDyg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Ceci,

Generally, "accessible" and "online math program" should not go in the
same sentence. Most online programs will not be accessible. There may
be a few though. If you give the Disability Services department at
College Board a call, they can send you a review book of math for the
GRE exam. I know that's not exactly what you're looking for, but a lot
of the math content in the GRE is also covered in the SAT. Sorry ...
Hope this helps!

Best,
Cricket Bidleman

On 8/5/16, Cecilia Mart?nez <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello everyone, I'm Ceci, and I just graduated from high school.
> Since I didn't get to take the SAT while in high-school, I would like
> to take it in november, so I can apply to college.
> However, I'm not very good at math, so I was wondering if any of you
> know of any resources I could use?
> I already use the SAT math practice tests, but does any of you know of
> any accessible online math courses or anything that might help me?
> Thank you
> Ceci
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/cricketbidleman%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>



From jesusloves1966 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 05:29:09 2016
From: jesusloves1966 at gmail.com (David Moore)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 01:29:09 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?
In-Reply-To: <CABP7S8Oz7ch6FTMP3P7Kh5rDZshTJ578x2H5Md1nPDd52kaDyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABP7S8Oz7ch6FTMP3P7Kh5rDZshTJ578x2H5Md1nPDd52kaDyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F31A9B559D74E3F98C5D3B448AA3CC1@davidspc>

Hi,
I took the math part of the SAT in Braille, and used a talking scientific 
calculator. I just dictated what I was getting in Braille to a scribe, and 
he wrote down everything that I told him to.
Take care,
David Moore


-----Original Message----- 
From: Cricket Bidleman via Blindmath
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 8:23 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: Cricket Bidleman
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?

Hello Ceci,

Generally, "accessible" and "online math program" should not go in the
same sentence. Most online programs will not be accessible. There may
be a few though. If you give the Disability Services department at
College Board a call, they can send you a review book of math for the
GRE exam. I know that's not exactly what you're looking for, but a lot
of the math content in the GRE is also covered in the SAT. Sorry ...
Hope this helps!

Best,
Cricket Bidleman

On 8/5/16, Cecilia Mart?nez <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello everyone, I'm Ceci, and I just graduated from high school.
> Since I didn't get to take the SAT while in high-school, I would like
> to take it in november, so I can apply to college.
> However, I'm not very good at math, so I was wondering if any of you
> know of any resources I could use?
> I already use the SAT math practice tests, but does any of you know of
> any accessible online math courses or anything that might help me?
> Thank you
> Ceci
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/cricketbidleman%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jesusloves1966%40gmail.com
BlindMath Gems can be found at 
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home> 




From sabra1023 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 05:36:25 2016
From: sabra1023 at gmail.com (Sabra Ewing)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 00:36:25 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0AC3C20-4100-4CC1-995D-682840D6162A@gmail.com>

What I would do is invest in a tutoring service. It would be an actual human who would tutor you over Skype or phone, and these services know if they are doing because they have people who take the test and memorize questions so they compile their own up-to-date information. The questions on the SAT follow a sort of template if that makes sense, and if you know how to follow the template, you don't actually have to be good at the things they're testing you on. The tutor could either read you questions or send you electronic questions that they have. I know they would work with you because I got in touch with a tutoring service in high school and they said they would work with me as a blind student, but then at the last minute my mom decided not to pay for it. If you go to community college, you don't have to take the test, but you are right that you need it if you are applying to a four-year university. You can either take the SAT or the a CT, and you could discuss with the tutoring service which one would be the best for you. After you take the test, you need to look up ballpark figures for the upper and lower scores that your school of choice except as well as the average score because if you fall outside of those figures, many schools will just throw away your application without even looking at it.

Sabra Ewing

> On Aug 5, 2016, at 7:18 PM, Cecilia Mart?nez via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, I'm Ceci, and I just graduated from high school.
> Since I didn't get to take the SAT while in high-school, I would like
> to take it in november, so I can apply to college.
> However, I'm not very good at math, so I was wondering if any of you
> know of any resources I could use?
> I already use the SAT math practice tests, but does any of you know of
> any accessible online math courses or anything that might help me?
> Thank you
> Ceci
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU  Sat Aug  6 22:24:12 2016
From: Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU (derek riemer)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:24:12 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cfc43a9-64ee-c14a-79e3-f5dc397f293d@colorado.edu>

Hi,

If you have the finances, or have a state rehab agency who does, hiring 
a one-on-one tutor for these tests even for only a few hours is such a win.


On 8/5/2016 6:18 PM, Cecilia Mart?nez via Blindmath wrote:
> Hello everyone, I'm Ceci, and I just graduated from high school.
> Since I didn't get to take the SAT while in high-school, I would like
> to take it in november, so I can apply to college.
> However, I'm not very good at math, so I was wondering if any of you
> know of any resources I could use?
> I already use the SAT math practice tests, but does any of you know of
> any accessible online math courses or anything that might help me?
> Thank you
> Ceci
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Derek Riemer

  * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
  * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  * Open source enthusiast.
  * Member of Bridge Cu
  * Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
Awesome little hand built weather app! 
<http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>

email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194



From ccmlhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug  7 05:56:35 2016
From: ccmlhe at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Cecilia_Mart=C3=ADnez?=)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 00:56:35 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?
In-Reply-To: <6cfc43a9-64ee-c14a-79e3-f5dc397f293d@colorado.edu>
References: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cfc43a9-64ee-c14a-79e3-f5dc397f293d@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJe6m_Dk86zV3pKj8cBAFhUnbXwLWQBh9-F69qb+=Mi4Na8Y4g@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, will keep that in mind

On 8/6/16, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If you have the finances, or have a state rehab agency who does, hiring
> a one-on-one tutor for these tests even for only a few hours is such a win.
>
>
> On 8/5/2016 6:18 PM, Cecilia Mart?nez via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello everyone, I'm Ceci, and I just graduated from high school.
>> Since I didn't get to take the SAT while in high-school, I would like
>> to take it in november, so I can apply to college.
>> However, I'm not very good at math, so I was wondering if any of you
>> know of any resources I could use?
>> I already use the SAT math practice tests, but does any of you know of
>> any accessible online math courses or anything that might help me?
>> Thank you
>> Ceci
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/ccmlhe%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>



From patrioticlyric at gmail.com  Sun Aug  7 06:23:43 2016
From: patrioticlyric at gmail.com (sana javed)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 23:23:43 -0700
Subject: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?
In-Reply-To: <6cfc43a9-64ee-c14a-79e3-f5dc397f293d@colorado.edu>
References: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cfc43a9-64ee-c14a-79e3-f5dc397f293d@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJ-t2+1c+L-tWoM07qAXauBCM0pVPDMVxLjsDuFQ_Fs5EdRc8A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Cici  ,
I hope ur doing  good. Well,    i'm  utilizing  these   online
resources  for      learning  Math  :
1.  www.academicearth.org


  2. https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/sat


I  hope  it will   help  you  . Regards

On 8/6/16, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If you have the finances, or have a state rehab agency who does, hiring
> a one-on-one tutor for these tests even for only a few hours is such a win.
>
>
> On 8/5/2016 6:18 PM, Cecilia Mart?nez via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello everyone, I'm Ceci, and I just graduated from high school.
>> Since I didn't get to take the SAT while in high-school, I would like
>> to take it in november, so I can apply to college.
>> However, I'm not very good at math, so I was wondering if any of you
>> know of any resources I could use?
>> I already use the SAT math practice tests, but does any of you know of
>> any accessible online math courses or anything that might help me?
>> Thank you
>> Ceci
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/patrioticlyric%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>



From ccmlhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug  7 06:29:02 2016
From: ccmlhe at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Cecilia_Mart=C3=ADnez?=)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 01:29:02 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ-t2+1c+L-tWoM07qAXauBCM0pVPDMVxLjsDuFQ_Fs5EdRc8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cfc43a9-64ee-c14a-79e3-f5dc397f293d@colorado.edu>
	<CAJ-t2+1c+L-tWoM07qAXauBCM0pVPDMVxLjsDuFQ_Fs5EdRc8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJe6m_CakOnju=RSv4Cf_HHNVFo4mfgeVUfLAy4QTi3YzpPBfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, that's awesome! ZAre these accessible with a screen reader?

On 8/7/16, sana javed via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Dear Cici  ,
> I hope ur doing  good. Well,    i'm  utilizing  these   online
> resources  for      learning  Math  :
> 1.  www.academicearth.org
>
>
>   2. https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/sat
>
>
> I  hope  it will   help  you  . Regards
>
> On 8/6/16, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> If you have the finances, or have a state rehab agency who does, hiring
>> a one-on-one tutor for these tests even for only a few hours is such a
>> win.
>>
>>
>> On 8/5/2016 6:18 PM, Cecilia Mart?nez via Blindmath wrote:
>>> Hello everyone, I'm Ceci, and I just graduated from high school.
>>> Since I didn't get to take the SAT while in high-school, I would like
>>> to take it in november, so I can apply to college.
>>> However, I'm not very good at math, so I was wondering if any of you
>>> know of any resources I could use?
>>> I already use the SAT math practice tests, but does any of you know of
>>> any accessible online math courses or anything that might help me?
>>> Thank you
>>> Ceci
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>     Derek Riemer
>>
>>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>   * Open source enthusiast.
>>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>>   * Avid skiier.
>>
>> Websites:
>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
>> Awesome little hand built weather app!
>> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>>
>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/patrioticlyric%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/ccmlhe%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>



From patrioticlyric at gmail.com  Sun Aug  7 06:47:52 2016
From: patrioticlyric at gmail.com (sana javed)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 23:47:52 -0700
Subject: [Blindmath] Preparing for the SAT?
In-Reply-To: <CAJe6m_CakOnju=RSv4Cf_HHNVFo4mfgeVUfLAy4QTi3YzpPBfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJe6m_Cw6VCCkP0N7kZPWFt6886idTKrpr3u0-eq-n3Ex+aDCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cfc43a9-64ee-c14a-79e3-f5dc397f293d@colorado.edu>
	<CAJ-t2+1c+L-tWoM07qAXauBCM0pVPDMVxLjsDuFQ_Fs5EdRc8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJe6m_CakOnju=RSv4Cf_HHNVFo4mfgeVUfLAy4QTi3YzpPBfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ-t2+1KFD0PEPpGiZtiCzr1p=NpDcTXzwFM7aAf46-ZPrV4UQ@mail.gmail.com>

You're  welcome .Actually, these are  video   tutorials ,so   no
problem  at all.  If u face any problem,then   contact   me   on this
email id, "patrioticlyric at gmail.com ".Good luck

On 8/6/16, Cecilia Mart?nez <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Thank you, that's awesome! ZAre these accessible with a screen reader?
>
> On 8/7/16, sana javed via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Dear Cici  ,
>> I hope ur doing  good. Well,    i'm  utilizing  these   online
>> resources  for      learning  Math  :
>> 1.  www.academicearth.org
>>
>>
>>   2. https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/sat
>>
>>
>> I  hope  it will   help  you  . Regards
>>
>> On 8/6/16, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> If you have the finances, or have a state rehab agency who does, hiring
>>> a one-on-one tutor for these tests even for only a few hours is such a
>>> win.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/5/2016 6:18 PM, Cecilia Mart?nez via Blindmath wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone, I'm Ceci, and I just graduated from high school.
>>>> Since I didn't get to take the SAT while in high-school, I would like
>>>> to take it in november, so I can apply to college.
>>>> However, I'm not very good at math, so I was wondering if any of you
>>>> know of any resources I could use?
>>>> I already use the SAT math practice tests, but does any of you know of
>>>> any accessible online math courses or anything that might help me?
>>>> Thank you
>>>> Ceci
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>     Derek Riemer
>>>
>>>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>>>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>>   * Open source enthusiast.
>>>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>>>   * Avid skiier.
>>>
>>> Websites:
>>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
>>> Awesome little hand built weather app!
>>> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>>>
>>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>>> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/patrioticlyric%40gmail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/ccmlhe%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/patrioticlyric%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>



From annajee82 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 10 02:47:27 2016
From: annajee82 at gmail.com (annajee82 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:47:27 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] Colorado Association of Blind Students NFL Survivor Pool
References: <21746.81291.bm@smtp214.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8F3EA5F4-98B8-43F5-B8B9-519FE4B381E1@gmail.com>

Greetings, The Colorado Association of Blind Students once again is hosting an NFL survivor pool.
In brief, the way this works is each week you pick one team to win their game per week. If they win you move on and if they lose you get a strike. Two strikes and you're out.  
There is a one time entrance fee of $20. Fifty percent of the proceeds will go to the Colorado Association of Blind Students, 40% of the proceeds will go to the winner and the remaining 10% will go to the individual who finishes in second place.
The attached document contains a more in-depth description of the pool as well as all of the rules. Please read this in its entirety so there aren?t any surprises.
If you wish to participate please email Cody Bair at codyjbair at yahoo.com and let him know (1) that you would like to participate and (2) which method you plan to use to make your payment.
Entries will be accepted until Wednesday September 7.
If you have further questions please don?t hesitate to reach out to me or Cody.


Anna E Givens,
President, 
Colorado Association of Blind Students

annajee82 at gmail.com



From kperry at blinksoft.com  Wed Aug 10 11:06:04 2016
From: kperry at blinksoft.com (Ken Perry)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:06:04 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Colorado Association of Blind Students NFL Survivor
 Pool
In-Reply-To: <8F3EA5F4-98B8-43F5-B8B9-519FE4B381E1@gmail.com>
References: <21746.81291.bm@smtp214.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<8F3EA5F4-98B8-43F5-B8B9-519FE4B381E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001201d1f2f7$30be8050$923b80f0$@blinksoft.com>

I am interested in playing and can use a credit card how or pay pal.  How would I play?


-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anna via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 10:47 PM
To: Nfbnet-students-list at nfbnet.org; Coloradotalk Listserv <colorado-talk at nfbnet.org>; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org; blindmath at nfbnet.org; Blindkid Listserv <blindkid at nfbnet.org>; blind-cooks at nfbnet.org; blind-international-students at nfbnet.org; Nfb Science Email <nfb-science at nfbnet.org>
Cc: annajee82 at gmail.com
Subject: [Blindmath] Colorado Association of Blind Students NFL Survivor Pool

Greetings, The Colorado Association of Blind Students once again is hosting an NFL survivor pool.
In brief, the way this works is each week you pick one team to win their game per week. If they win you move on and if they lose you get a strike. Two strikes and you're out.  
There is a one time entrance fee of $20. Fifty percent of the proceeds will go to the Colorado Association of Blind Students, 40% of the proceeds will go to the winner and the remaining 10% will go to the individual who finishes in second place.
The attached document contains a more in-depth description of the pool as well as all of the rules. Please read this in its entirety so there aren?t any surprises.
If you wish to participate please email Cody Bair at codyjbair at yahoo.com and let him know (1) that you would like to participate and (2) which method you plan to use to make your payment.
Entries will be accepted until Wednesday September 7.
If you have further questions please don?t hesitate to reach out to me or Cody.


Anna E Givens,
President, 
Colorado Association of Blind Students

annajee82 at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.com
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>




From SolowoniukR at macewan.ca  Wed Aug 17 18:51:20 2016
From: SolowoniukR at macewan.ca (Russell Solowoniuk)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:51:20 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors
Message-ID: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. 
Please consider the environment before printing this email.





From jjwhite at ets.org  Wed Aug 17 18:58:03 2016
From: jjwhite at ets.org (White, Jason J)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:58:03 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <BY2PR0701MB1990E5B67BDD5B23EBA74AC5AB140@BY2PR0701MB1990.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material
> to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?
[Jason] I would suggest writing the document in a text editor in LaTeX format, then using LaTeX to generate a PDF file from it that can be shared with instructors.

The software is freely available and very reliable.


________________________________

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.


Thank you for your compliance.

________________________________



From neal at duxsys.com  Wed Aug 17 19:03:37 2016
From: neal at duxsys.com (Neal Kuniansky)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:03:37 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <02d701d1f8ba$0f314df0$2d93e9d0$@duxsys.com>

First the disclosure, I am with Duxbury Systems the manufacturer of DBT (the
Duxbury Braille Translator).

If the student uses DBT Win version 12.1, the they can six key in their
braille math directly [in either UEB or Nemeth].
Then the student can translate that file to LaTex print file.
The student can open the resulting file in any LaTeX software, such as the
free Scientific Viewer, and print it out for the braille impaired teacher.
This can all be done independently by the student with their access
technology.

Cheers,
Neal 
neal at duxsys.com
+1 978-692-3000 
www.DuxburySystems.com
Duxbury Systems, Inc.
Your braille solution around the globe since 1976!

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell
Solowoniuk via Blindmath
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:51 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Russell Solowoniuk
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying
to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them
out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend.
The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with
printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript,
fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript)
2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the
material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted
instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities MacEwan
University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is
addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged
information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended
recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action
relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply,
should be deleted or destroyed. 
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neal%40duxsys.com
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________




From codeofdusk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 19:06:37 2016
From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill Dengler)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 19:06:37 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <02d701d1f8ba$0f314df0$2d93e9d0$@duxsys.com>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<02d701d1f8ba$0f314df0$2d93e9d0$@duxsys.com>
Message-ID: <9D17442A-A8E0-4620-84E0-7BB353731DF5@gmail.com>

Out of curiosity, can translation be done in the opposite direction (.tex to Braille)?

Bill
> On Aug 17, 2016, at 7:03 PM, Neal Kuniansky via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> First the disclosure, I am with Duxbury Systems the manufacturer of DBT (the
> Duxbury Braille Translator).
> 
> If the student uses DBT Win version 12.1, the they can six key in their
> braille math directly [in either UEB or Nemeth].
> Then the student can translate that file to LaTex print file.
> The student can open the resulting file in any LaTeX software, such as the
> free Scientific Viewer, and print it out for the braille impaired teacher.
> This can all be done independently by the student with their access
> technology.
> 
> Cheers,
> Neal 
> neal at duxsys.com <mailto:neal at duxsys.com>
> +1 978-692-3000 
> www.DuxburySystems.com <http://www.duxburysystems.com/>
> Duxbury Systems, Inc.
> Your braille solution around the globe since 1976!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Russell
> Solowoniuk via Blindmath
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:51 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Russell Solowoniuk
> Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying
> to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them
> out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend.
> The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.
> 
> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with
> printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript,
> fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript)
> 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.
> 
> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the
> material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted
> instructors?
> 
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Russell
> 
> Russell Solowoniuk
> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities MacEwan
> University
> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
> T:  780-497-5826
> F:  780-497-4018
> macewan.ca
> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is
> addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged
> information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended
> recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action
> relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply,
> should be deleted or destroyed. 
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neal%40duxsys.com <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neal%40duxsys.com>
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>>
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com <http://www.symanteccloud.com/>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com>
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>>



From jjwhite at ets.org  Wed Aug 17 19:12:09 2016
From: jjwhite at ets.org (White, Jason J)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 19:12:09 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <9D17442A-A8E0-4620-84E0-7BB353731DF5@gmail.com>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<02d701d1f8ba$0f314df0$2d93e9d0$@duxsys.com>
	<9D17442A-A8E0-4620-84E0-7BB353731DF5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR0701MB199067278CEA3B55B91C6F32AB140@BY2PR0701MB1990.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Out of curiosity, can translation be done in the opposite direction (.tex to
> Braille)?
[Jason] Yes, but I doubt it will work accurately if the author has relied on custom TeX macros extensively in the document.


________________________________

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.


Thank you for your compliance.

________________________________



From neal at duxsys.com  Wed Aug 17 19:05:38 2016
From: neal at duxsys.com (Neal Kuniansky)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:05:38 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
Message-ID: <02d801d1f8ba$5790d4d0$06b27e70$@duxsys.com>

First the disclosure, I am with Duxbury Systems the manufacturer of DBT (the
Duxbury Braille Translator).

If the student uses DBT Win version 12.1, the they can six key in their
braille math directly [in either UEB or Nemeth].
Then the student can translate that file to LaTex print file.
The student can open the resulting file in any LaTeX software, such as the
free Scientific Viewer, and print it out for the braille impaired teacher.
This can all be done independently by the student with their access
technology.

Cheers,
Neal 
neal at duxsys.com
+1 978-692-3000 
www.DuxburySystems.com
Duxbury Systems, Inc.
Your braille solution around the globe since 1976!

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell
Solowoniuk via Blindmath
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:51 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Russell Solowoniuk
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying
to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them
out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend.
The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with
printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript,
fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript)
2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the
material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted
instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities MacEwan
University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is
addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged
information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended
recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action
relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply,
should be deleted or destroyed. 
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neal%40duxsys.com
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________




From SolowoniukR at macewan.ca  Wed Aug 17 19:26:57 2016
From: SolowoniukR at macewan.ca (Russell Solowoniuk)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 13:26:57 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <02d801d1f8ba$5790d4d0$06b27e70$@duxsys.com>
References: <02d801d1f8ba$5790d4d0$06b27e70$@duxsys.com>
Message-ID: <57B46621020000EC00049967@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>

Hi Neal,

Does Duxbury 12.1 include the ability to translate from nemeth directly to LaTex print file? How is this done?

Also, the student in question uses a Mac. I know there is a Duxbury version available for the Mac, but will the student be able to do what you suggest on a Mac? If not, we may be able to provide a loaner Windows laptop.

Thanks to all who responded!

Best,

Russell

>>> Neal Kuniansky via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 1:05 PM >>>
First the disclosure, I am with Duxbury Systems the manufacturer of DBT (the
Duxbury Braille Translator).

If the student uses DBT Win version 12.1, the they can six key in their
braille math directly [in either UEB or Nemeth].
Then the student can translate that file to LaTex print file.
The student can open the resulting file in any LaTeX software, such as the
free Scientific Viewer, and print it out for the braille impaired teacher.
This can all be done independently by the student with their access
technology.

Cheers,
Neal 
neal at duxsys.com 
+1 978-692-3000 
www.DuxburySystems.com 
Duxbury Systems, Inc.
Your braille solution around the globe since 1976!

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell
Solowoniuk via Blindmath
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:51 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org 
Cc: Russell Solowoniuk
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying
to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them
out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend.
The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with
printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript,
fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript)
2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the
material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted
instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities MacEwan
University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca 
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is
addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged
information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended
recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action
relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply,
should be deleted or destroyed. 
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neal%40duxsys.com 
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com 
______________________________________________________________________


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
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BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>




From danielgillen at rcn.com  Wed Aug 17 20:18:44 2016
From: danielgillen at rcn.com (Daniel Gillen)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:18:44 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
Message-ID: <6D.7B.43729.7A6C4B75@smtp01.rcn.cmh.synacor.com>

Does the student in question use a Braille note-taker such as a HumanWare BrailleNote Apex, HIMS Braille Sense U2, etc., for taking notes and completing assignments in non-STEM courses? As a user of Braille note-takers for many years through high school and college (I'm currently completing degrees in physics and music as of this year), I have devised a method for producing semi-standard math notation in print that involves using computer Braille code and extended Unicode characters on a BrailleNote Apex. Any document with math notation written in this system can simply be printed out or e-mailed to a sighted instructor to evaluate. In a nutshell, the system is sort of a hybrid between the Nemeth Code, LaTeX, and standard math notation. Part of the effective implementation of the system also involved assigning special dot combinations (using a custom eight-dot Computer Braille table) to the math Unicode symbols such as infinity (?), element of (?), or the integral sign (?), as well as the upper- and lower-case Greek alphabet. The similarity with LaTeX is evident by the use of a caret (^) for the beginning of a superscript expression and an underscore (_) for a subscript expression, with the Computer Braille double quote mark (which happens to be the dot 5 from Nemeth) used to return to the baseline (the curly braces {} don't perform their LaTeX function, instead being used as they might be found in standard notation).
Anyway, if the student has expressed interest in using a Braille note-taker in a STEM course, they and their sighted instructor(s) may find the key to modified math symbols (which I have created and revised over the years), along with some little examples, to be helpful. Please let me know if this is the case.

Thank you,
Daniel

On Aug 17, 2016 3:26 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Neal, 
>
> Does Duxbury 12.1 include the ability to translate from nemeth directly to LaTex print file? How is this done? 
>
> Also, the student in question uses a Mac. I know there is a Duxbury version available for the Mac, but will the student be able to do what you suggest on a Mac? If not, we may be able to provide a loaner Windows laptop. 
>
> Thanks to all who responded! 
>
> Best, 
>
> Russell 
>
> >>> Neal Kuniansky via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 1:05 PM >>> 
> First the disclosure, I am with Duxbury Systems the manufacturer of DBT (the 
> Duxbury Braille Translator). 
>
> If the student uses DBT Win version 12.1, the they can six key in their 
> braille math directly [in either UEB or Nemeth]. 
> Then the student can translate that file to LaTex print file. 
> The student can open the resulting file in any LaTeX software, such as the 
> free Scientific Viewer, and print it out for the braille impaired teacher. 
> This can all be done independently by the student with their access 
> technology. 
>
> Cheers, 
> Neal 
> neal at duxsys.com 
> +1 978-692-3000 
> www.DuxburySystems.com 
> Duxbury Systems, Inc. 
> Your braille solution around the globe since 1976! 
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell 
> Solowoniuk via Blindmath 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:51 PM 
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org 
> Cc: Russell Solowoniuk 
> Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors 
>
> Hi everyone, 
>
> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying 
> to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them 
> out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. 
> The student will be working on things like quadratic equations. 
>
> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with 
> printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, 
> fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 
> 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc. 
>
> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the 
> material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted 
> instructors? 
>
> Any help will be greatly appreciated. 
>
> Russell 
>
> Russell Solowoniuk 
> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities MacEwan 
> University 
> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave. 
> Edmonton, AB? T5J 4S2 
> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca 
> T:? 780-497-5826 
> F:? 780-497-4018 
> macewan.ca 
> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is 
> addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged 
> information.? Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended 
> recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action 
> relying on it.? Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, 
> should be deleted or destroyed. 
> Please consider the environment before printing this email. 
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 
> Blindmath mailing list 
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Blindmath: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neal%40duxsys.com 
> BlindMath Gems can be found at 
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home> 
>
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. 
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com 
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solowoniukr%40macewan.ca 
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home> 
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 
> Blindmath mailing list 
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/danielgillen%40rcn.com 
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home> 

From steve.noble at louisville.edu  Wed Aug 17 20:32:33 2016
From: steve.noble at louisville.edu (steve.noble at louisville.edu)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:32:33 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <C1BF3DDBA47A024DAD5CAFB0A4D8D7200157604CA5@exmbx01>

One possibility would be using MathHear: https://www.gh-accessibility.com/software/mathhear
There's a free 30-day demo available if you want to try it out.

Another possibility is ChattyInfty: http://www.sciaccess.net/en/ChattyInfty/

Just a couple of tools to add to your list for investigation.



--Steve Noble
steve.noble at louisville.edu
502-969-3088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble


________________________________________
From: Blindmath [blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath [blindmath at nfbnet.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:51 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Russell Solowoniuk
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listinfo_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=f5I7R6cUxjacSQxIJHwOuUr6N0REyISM6rM3bWhatk8&s=RyDBXQhksQQ_QBdmL4Rls4JFvEap5Zxzngtjbc7PcC0&e=
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
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BlindMath Gems can be found at <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.blindscience.org_blindmath-2Dgems-2Dhome&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=f5I7R6cUxjacSQxIJHwOuUr6N0REyISM6rM3bWhatk8&s=pox6nLbtwop7YVDFgcvTtsFFMDnobWytGVjntM1WHpI&e= >


From SolowoniukR at macewan.ca  Wed Aug 17 20:46:42 2016
From: SolowoniukR at macewan.ca (Russell Solowoniuk)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 14:46:42 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <C1BF3DDBA47A024DAD5CAFB0A4D8D7200157604CA5@exmbx01>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<C1BF3DDBA47A024DAD5CAFB0A4D8D7200157604CA5@exmbx01>
Message-ID: <57B478D2020000EC0004997F@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>

Hi Steve,

Thanks so much. I'll check these out!

Best regards,

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. 
Please consider the environment before printing this email.


>>> Steve Noble via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 2:32 PM >>>
One possibility would be using MathHear: https://www.gh-accessibility.com/software/mathhear 
There's a free 30-day demo available if you want to try it out.

Another possibility is ChattyInfty: http://www.sciaccess.net/en/ChattyInfty/ 

Just a couple of tools to add to your list for investigation.



--Steve Noble
steve.noble at louisville.edu 
502-969-3088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble 


________________________________________
From: Blindmath [blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath [blindmath at nfbnet.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:51 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org 
Cc: Russell Solowoniuk
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca 
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listinfo_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=f5I7R6cUxjacSQxIJHwOuUr6N0REyISM6rM3bWhatk8&s=RyDBXQhksQQ_QBdmL4Rls4JFvEap5Zxzngtjbc7PcC0&e= 
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BlindMath Gems can be found at <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.blindscience.org_blindmath-2Dgems-2Dhome&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=f5I7R6cUxjacSQxIJHwOuUr6N0REyISM6rM3bWhatk8&s=pox6nLbtwop7YVDFgcvTtsFFMDnobWytGVjntM1WHpI&e= >
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
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BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From sabra1023 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 21:00:25 2016
From: sabra1023 at gmail.com (Sabra Ewing)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:00:25 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <E07BB75E-AB38-47AF-8126-065868C34791@gmail.com>

You could try the Pearson equation editor. It is computer-based, but you could connect the braillenote to the computer as a braille display. He would type his work in Nemeth,  and then convert it to an object that he could put in a word document. Other than that, the only other solution is computer braille. You might see something like (4X) ^ 2. You have to use parentheses to differentiate the top and bottom of a fraction and use a slash and to say SQRT for square root and so forth. It's basically the same way you would enter math if you were a programmer. It is still very hard four sided people to read. Other blind people are using a language I don't know how to spell, but it sounds like  latex. With that, you can produce things that are easy for sighted people to read, but it's hard on you because you have to adhere to a strict syntax, and if you make one mistake, your assignment won't convert properly. Other blind people take a very old fashion route where they write their math on a Perkins Brailer and have someone transcribe it, but I wouldn't recommend that because there is a shortage of instructors, and you want the instructor to be preparing assignments and things, not transcribing a students work when there are other options.

Sabra Ewing

> On Aug 17, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.
> 
> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.
> 
> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?
> 
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Russell
> 
> Russell Solowoniuk
> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
> MacEwan University
> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
> T:  780-497-5826
> F:  780-497-4018
> macewan.ca
> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. 
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From sdpruitt99 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 17 21:12:33 2016
From: sdpruitt99 at yahoo.com (Shannon Pruitt)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:12:33 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <E07BB75E-AB38-47AF-8126-065868C34791@gmail.com>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<E07BB75E-AB38-47AF-8126-065868C34791@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <715AB0BD-368C-47D6-BC83-E5D873525D41@yahoo.com>

Duxbury will open .tex files and translate them to Braille.  Any math professor should also be familiar with LaTex. 

Shannon

> On Aug 17, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Sabra Ewing via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> You could try the Pearson equation editor. It is computer-based, but you could connect the braillenote to the computer as a braille display. He would type his work in Nemeth,  and then convert it to an object that he could put in a word document. Other than that, the only other solution is computer braille. You might see something like (4X) ^ 2. You have to use parentheses to differentiate the top and bottom of a fraction and use a slash and to say SQRT for square root and so forth. It's basically the same way you would enter math if you were a programmer. It is still very hard four sided people to read. Other blind people are using a language I don't know how to spell, but it sounds like  latex. With that, you can produce things that are easy for sighted people to read, but it's hard on you because you have to adhere to a strict syntax, and if you make one mistake, your assignment won't convert properly. Other blind people take a very old fashion route where they write their math on a Perkins Brailer and have someone transcribe it, but I wouldn't recommend that because there is a shortage of instructors, and you want the instructor to be preparing assignments and things, not transcribing a students work when there are other options.
> 
> Sabra Ewing
> 
>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.
>> 
>> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.
>> 
>> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?
>> 
>> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Russell
>> 
>> Russell Solowoniuk
>> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
>> MacEwan University
>> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
>> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
>> T:  780-497-5826
>> F:  780-497-4018
>> macewan.ca
>> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. 
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sdpruitt99%40yahoo.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>




From SolowoniukR at macewan.ca  Wed Aug 17 21:25:05 2016
From: SolowoniukR at macewan.ca (Russell Solowoniuk)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:25:05 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <715AB0BD-368C-47D6-BC83-E5D873525D41@yahoo.com>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<E07BB75E-AB38-47AF-8126-065868C34791@gmail.com>
	<715AB0BD-368C-47D6-BC83-E5D873525D41@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <57B481D1020000EC00049987@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>

Yes, but will Duxbury translate nemeth files to LaTex?

>>> Shannon Pruitt via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 3:12 PM >>>
Duxbury will open .tex files and translate them to Braille.  Any math professor should also be familiar with LaTex. 

Shannon

> On Aug 17, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Sabra Ewing via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> You could try the Pearson equation editor. It is computer-based, but you could connect the braillenote to the computer as a braille display. He would type his work in Nemeth,  and then convert it to an object that he could put in a word document. Other than that, the only other solution is computer braille. You might see something like (4X) ^ 2. You have to use parentheses to differentiate the top and bottom of a fraction and use a slash and to say SQRT for square root and so forth. It's basically the same way you would enter math if you were a programmer. It is still very hard four sided people to read. Other blind people are using a language I don't know how to spell, but it sounds like  latex. With that, you can produce things that are easy for sighted people to read, but it's hard on you because you have to adhere to a strict syntax, and if you make one mistake, your assignment won't convert properly. Other blind people take a very old fashion route where they write their math on a Perkins Brailer and have someone transcribe it, but I wouldn't recommend that because there is a shortage of instructors, and you want the instructor to be preparing assignments and things, not transcribing a students work when there are other options.
> 
> Sabra Ewing
> 
>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.
>> 
>> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.
>> 
>> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?
>> 
>> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Russell
>> 
>> Russell Solowoniuk
>> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
>> MacEwan University
>> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
>> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca 
>> T:  780-497-5826
>> F:  780-497-4018
>> macewan.ca
>> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. 
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com 
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sdpruitt99%40yahoo.com 
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>


_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solowoniukr%40macewan.ca 
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From sabra1023 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 21:35:26 2016
From: sabra1023 at gmail.com (Sabra Ewing)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:35:26 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B481D1020000EC00049987@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<E07BB75E-AB38-47AF-8126-065868C34791@gmail.com>
	<715AB0BD-368C-47D6-BC83-E5D873525D41@yahoo.com>
	<57B481D1020000EC00049987@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <9D8FD9BD-1610-4166-AE80-A4E6EFEE5426@gmail.com>

If Duxberry won't, they have software that will do it. The problem with that method is that it will not translate in real time, and if you make a mistake, it won't do it. If you are taking multiple math courses, that may be a way to go.

Sabra Ewing

> On Aug 17, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Yes, but will Duxbury translate nemeth files to LaTex?
> 
>>>> Shannon Pruitt via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 3:12 PM >>>
> Duxbury will open .tex files and translate them to Braille.  Any math professor should also be familiar with LaTex. 
> 
> Shannon
> 
>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Sabra Ewing via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> You could try the Pearson equation editor. It is computer-based, but you could connect the braillenote to the computer as a braille display. He would type his work in Nemeth,  and then convert it to an object that he could put in a word document. Other than that, the only other solution is computer braille. You might see something like (4X) ^ 2. You have to use parentheses to differentiate the top and bottom of a fraction and use a slash and to say SQRT for square root and so forth. It's basically the same way you would enter math if you were a programmer. It is still very hard four sided people to read. Other blind people are using a language I don't know how to spell, but it sounds like  latex. With that, you can produce things that are easy for sighted people to read, but it's hard on you because you have to adhere to a strict syntax, and if you make one mistake, your assignment won't convert properly. Other blind people take a very old fashion route where they write their math on a Perkins Brailer and have someone transcribe it, but I wouldn't recommend that because there is a shortage of instructors, and you want the instructor to be preparing assignments and things, not transcribing a students work when there are other options.
>> 
>> Sabra Ewing
>> 
>>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.
>>> 
>>> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.
>>> 
>>> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?
>>> 
>>> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Russell
>>> 
>>> Russell Solowoniuk
>>> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
>>> MacEwan University
>>> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>>> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
>>> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca 
>>> T:  780-497-5826
>>> F:  780-497-4018
>>> macewan.ca
>>> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. 
>>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com 
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sdpruitt99%40yahoo.com 
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solowoniukr%40macewan.ca 
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From sabra1023 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 21:39:15 2016
From: sabra1023 at gmail.com (Sabra Ewing)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:39:15 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <6D.7B.43729.7A6C4B75@smtp01.rcn.cmh.synacor.com>
References: <6D.7B.43729.7A6C4B75@smtp01.rcn.cmh.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <90954692-D4B4-4D9D-BEA2-6C583A48982E@gmail.com>

I did the same thing you did, but it is still very difficult for sighted people to read. They need things formatted spatially. Also, some of the symbols don't look the same.

Sabra Ewing

> On Aug 17, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Daniel Gillen via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Does the student in question use a Braille note-taker such as a HumanWare BrailleNote Apex, HIMS Braille Sense U2, etc., for taking notes and completing assignments in non-STEM courses? As a user of Braille note-takers for many years through high school and college (I'm currently completing degrees in physics and music as of this year), I have devised a method for producing semi-standard math notation in print that involves using computer Braille code and extended Unicode characters on a BrailleNote Apex. Any document with math notation written in this system can simply be printed out or e-mailed to a sighted instructor to evaluate. In a nutshell, the system is sort of a hybrid between the Nemeth Code, LaTeX, and standard math notation. Part of the effective implementation of the system also involved assigning special dot combinations (using a custom eight-dot Computer Braille table) to the math Unicode symbols such as infinity (?), element of (?), or the integral sign (?), as well as the upper- and lower-case Greek alphabet. The similarity with LaTeX is evident by the use of a caret (^) for the beginning of a superscript expression and an underscore (_) for a subscript expression, with the Computer Braille double quote mark (which happens to be the dot 5 from Nemeth) used to return to the baseline (the curly braces {} don't perform their LaTeX function, instead being used as they might be found in standard notation).
> Anyway, if the student has expressed interest in using a Braille note-taker in a STEM course, they and their sighted instructor(s) may find the key to modified math symbols (which I have created and revised over the years), along with some little examples, to be helpful. Please let me know if this is the case.
> 
> Thank you,
> Daniel
> 
>> On Aug 17, 2016 3:26 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Neal, 
>> 
>> Does Duxbury 12.1 include the ability to translate from nemeth directly to LaTex print file? How is this done? 
>> 
>> Also, the student in question uses a Mac. I know there is a Duxbury version available for the Mac, but will the student be able to do what you suggest on a Mac? If not, we may be able to provide a loaner Windows laptop. 
>> 
>> Thanks to all who responded! 
>> 
>> Best, 
>> 
>> Russell 
>> 
>>>>> Neal Kuniansky via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 1:05 PM >>>
>> First the disclosure, I am with Duxbury Systems the manufacturer of DBT (the 
>> Duxbury Braille Translator). 
>> 
>> If the student uses DBT Win version 12.1, the they can six key in their 
>> braille math directly [in either UEB or Nemeth]. 
>> Then the student can translate that file to LaTex print file. 
>> The student can open the resulting file in any LaTeX software, such as the 
>> free Scientific Viewer, and print it out for the braille impaired teacher. 
>> This can all be done independently by the student with their access 
>> technology. 
>> 
>> Cheers, 
>> Neal 
>> neal at duxsys.com 
>> +1 978-692-3000 
>> www.DuxburySystems.com 
>> Duxbury Systems, Inc. 
>> Your braille solution around the globe since 1976! 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell 
>> Solowoniuk via Blindmath 
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:51 PM 
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org 
>> Cc: Russell Solowoniuk 
>> Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors 
>> 
>> Hi everyone, 
>> 
>> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying 
>> to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them 
>> out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. 
>> The student will be working on things like quadratic equations. 
>> 
>> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with 
>> printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, 
>> fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 
>> 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc. 
>> 
>> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the 
>> material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted 
>> instructors? 
>> 
>> Any help will be greatly appreciated. 
>> 
>> Russell 
>> 
>> Russell Solowoniuk 
>> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities MacEwan 
>> University 
>> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave. 
>> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2 
>> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca 
>> T:  780-497-5826 
>> F:  780-497-4018 
>> macewan.ca 
>> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is 
>> addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged 
>> information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended 
>> recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action 
>> relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, 
>> should be deleted or destroyed. 
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> Blindmath mailing list 
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Blindmath: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neal%40duxsys.com 
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at 
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________________________________ 
>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. 
>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com 
>> ______________________________________________________________________ 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> Blindmath mailing list 
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solowoniukr%40macewan.ca 
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> Blindmath mailing list 
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/danielgillen%40rcn.com 
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From danielgillen at rcn.com  Wed Aug 17 21:57:14 2016
From: danielgillen at rcn.com (Daniel Gillen)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:57:14 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <90954692-D4B4-4D9D-BEA2-6C583A48982E@gmail.com>
References: <6D.7B.43729.7A6C4B75@smtp01.rcn.cmh.synacor.com>
	<90954692-D4B4-4D9D-BEA2-6C583A48982E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1EA71029-28D7-44A0-8AE8-6A084A76B655@rcn.com>

I am well aware of that. However, my professors in college and other instructors seemed well able (as the proved to me) to understand and even write comments containing this particular notation. For the most part, I tended to use the most standard math symbols for things such as calculus or set theory (like integrals and empty-set or element-of signs). The times when I would make something more spatial would occur when rendering large matrices such as more than three-by-three arrays in linear algebra and other contexts. For smaller matrices or vectors, I would use something similar to what programming languages tend to use with parentheses or square brackets. all in all, it seemed to work really well for the purposes of doing regular homework assignments and exams. Yet I know that when I write my physics thesis this year, I will be preparing it using LaTeX. I have quite a bit of familiarity with this markup language, as often I have received assignments where math notation was marked up in it. in many cases, this is what I received the assignment in, and then I would take the time to convert this format into the hybrid notation system that both my instructor and I could understand. I feel that the main disadvantage of using any of those editors are other resources is that the document would have to go through more than one device and a few different programs before finally arriving in the instructor's hands or inbox. Thus the system that I ended up using was both readable and timely.

Thank you,
Daniel

sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 17, 2016, at 5:39 PM, Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I did the same thing you did, but it is still very difficult for sighted people to read. They need things formatted spatially. Also, some of the symbols don't look the same.
> 
> Sabra Ewing
> 
>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Daniel Gillen via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet..org> wrote:
>> 
>> Does the student in question use a Braille note-taker such as a HumanWare BrailleNote Apex, HIMS Braille Sense U2, etc., for taking notes and completing assignments in non-STEM courses? As a user of Braille note-takers for many years through high school and college (I'm currently completing degrees in physics and music as of this year), I have devised a method for producing semi-standard math notation in print that involves using computer Braille code and extended Unicode characters on a BrailleNote Apex. Any document with math notation written in this system can simply be printed out or e-mailed to a sighted instructor to evaluate. In a nutshell, the system is sort of a hybrid between the Nemeth Code, LaTeX, and standard math notation. Part of the effective implementation of the system also involved assigning special dot combinations (using a custom eight-dot Computer Braille table) to the math Unicode symbols such as infinity (?), element of (?), or the integral sign (?), as well as the upper- and lower-case Greek alphabet. The similarity with LaTeX is evident by the use of a caret (^) for the beginning of a superscript expression and an underscore (_) for a subscript expression, with the Computer Braille double quote mark (which happens to be the dot 5 from Nemeth) used to return to the baseline (the curly braces {} don't perform their LaTeX function, instead being used as they might be found in standard notation).
>> Anyway, if the student has expressed interest in using a Braille note-taker in a STEM course, they and their sighted instructor(s) may find the key to modified math symbols (which I have created and revised over the years), along with some little examples, to be helpful. Please let me know if this is the case.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Daniel
>> 
>>> On Aug 17, 2016 3:26 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:




From sdpruitt99 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 17 22:47:29 2016
From: sdpruitt99 at yahoo.com (Shannon Pruitt)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:47:29 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B481D1020000EC00049987@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<E07BB75E-AB38-47AF-8126-065868C34791@gmail.com>
	<715AB0BD-368C-47D6-BC83-E5D873525D41@yahoo.com>
	<57B481D1020000EC00049987@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <E19D0022-8D2F-46AC-AFB3-85AA51A1DD05@yahoo.com>

Yes Duxbury will translate from Nemeth to Latex. I believe that was already covered in Neal's email. 

Shannon

> On Aug 17, 2016, at 5:25 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Yes, but will Duxbury translate nemeth files to LaTex?
> 
>>>> Shannon Pruitt via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 3:12 PM >>>
> Duxbury will open .tex files and translate them to Braille.  Any math professor should also be familiar with LaTex. 
> 
> Shannon
> 
>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Sabra Ewing via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> You could try the Pearson equation editor. It is computer-based, but you could connect the braillenote to the computer as a braille display. He would type his work in Nemeth,  and then convert it to an object that he could put in a word document. Other than that, the only other solution is computer braille. You might see something like (4X) ^ 2. You have to use parentheses to differentiate the top and bottom of a fraction and use a slash and to say SQRT for square root and so forth. It's basically the same way you would enter math if you were a programmer. It is still very hard four sided people to read. Other blind people are using a language I don't know how to spell, but it sounds like  latex. With that, you can produce things that are easy for sighted people to read, but it's hard on you because you have to adhere to a strict syntax, and if you make one mistake, your assignment won't convert properly. Other blind people take a very old fashion route where they write their math on a Perkins Brailer and have someone transcribe it, but I wouldn't recommend that because there is a shortage of instructors, and you want the instructor to be preparing assignments and things, not transcribing a students work when there are other options.
>> 
>> Sabra Ewing
>> 
>>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.
>>> 
>>> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.
>>> 
>>> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?
>>> 
>>> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Russell
>>> 
>>> Russell Solowoniuk
>>> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
>>> MacEwan University
>>> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>>> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
>>> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca 
>>> T:  780-497-5826
>>> F:  780-497-4018
>>> macewan.ca
>>> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. 
>>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.com 
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sdpruitt99%40yahoo.com 
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solowoniukr%40macewan.ca 
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sdpruitt99%40yahoo.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>




From jhori at ucdavis.edu  Thu Aug 18 00:03:32 2016
From: jhori at ucdavis.edu (Joshua Hori)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:03:32 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B478D2020000EC0004997F@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<C1BF3DDBA47A024DAD5CAFB0A4D8D7200157604CA5@exmbx01>
	<57B478D2020000EC0004997F@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <BY2PR08MB17332EA178D80F40C03A4835A9150@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hello!

I've got a chapter to share! Bare with me, this is a long one...

You can try Pearson's Accessible Equation Editor: http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
- It's web based and works with NVDA and/or a braillenote. Instructors can interact with visually disabled students studying math. NVDA sometimes needs to be restarted if it becomes unresponsive. Oh, who am I kidding, it needs to be restarted often. The engineer at Pearson is working with a blind student to ensure the math equations are correct. 

There's the MathML cloud tool: https://www.mathmlcloud.org/#/how-to-use-this-tool
- This tool will convert single math equations written in LaTeX, ASCII, or MathML and convert them into other accessible formats. The link I've provided takes you to the "How to use this tool" page for those of you wanting to sign up with a developer account (look for the "register" link) to get access to their API and convert large numbers of files all at once. 

There's also WAVES, called JSWAVES, for math input and output available on GitHub (A collaboration with gh and the DIAGRAM center): https://github.com/gh-accessibility/WAVES-Token-Toolbar
- I haven't tried this one as of yet so I can't comment on its use, but I trust the groups who put it together. In fact, gh was the company who distributes MathHear...so there's that. Maybe it's time for me to try it out...

If you need additional information on math and screenreader support, try the Math Support Finder: http://msf.mathmlcloud.org/
- enter in your preferred screenreader in the dropdown menu and the tool will provide you with formats available to be used with the tool and what plugins are needed. 

For online Learning Management Systems, or for an alternative to typing math equations within a web browser, then you may want to consider wiris: http://www.wiris.com/editor/demo/en/
- It can be a little complicated to navigate, but there is a "MathML and LaTeX" link as well as an "Accessibility" link. The MathML and LaTeX link allows users to enter math with an accessible, but complex, onscreen math keyboard. Or users can enter their math in MathML or LaTeX and have it displayed graphically. To access the editor after accessing the MathML and LaTeX link, look for the form fields "Unlabeled3 Edit" for MathML and "Unlabeled4 Edit" for LaTeX. All the rest of the buttons are tagged correctly. The accessibility link provides alt text for the math equation entered which could be used with an image. The 2 drawbacks to wiris are that it likes to place \textstyle and \displaystyle to alter how some of the math symbols are displayed and the second issue is that it will auto terminate subscripts within a fraction while other automated converters require you to surround the sub/super scripts within curly brackets. 

Lastly, MathJax may be of interest. You can create a document and save into HTML using the math code of your choice. Then edit the HTML document in notepad and enter one line of javascript code within the header tag to convert your LaTeX, TeX, MathML, or asciimath into an accessible math equation read aloud by screenreaders. Windows users may need to install mathplayer, and alter their browsers math renderer settings to MathML (default is HTML Common), but it allows you to navigate through the equation instead of listening to the whole thing in one go. It just works on OSX devices using voiceover, and it plays well on iOS devices, but the page can't be local and must be hosted on a server (unless someone has some tips on accessing local HTML files within a mobile browser). Try it out at https://www.mathjax.org.

The great thing about MathJax is that you can wrap your displayed math equations with 2 dollar signs at both ends of the equation, or instead using \[ and \] if the dollar signs are a bother, AND wrapping in-line math with \( and \) for the conversions to work properly. This also works in Google Docs using an automated LaTeX converter plug-in, but it converts all the equations into images instead of accessible math. But unlike other tools, it will convert all equations within a document all at once and not one at a time. 

JAVASCRIPT CODE:
<script type="text/javascript" async
  src="https://cdn.mathjax.org/mathjax/latest/MathJax.js?config=TeX-MML-AM_CHTML">
</script>

Please note that this renders ALL math. There are other MathJax converters which cater to one type of math code to make it more reliable. You can find out more about MathJax settings here: http://docs.mathjax.org/en/latest/start.html

I find that I had the best experiences were using NVDA and Firefox on PC, Safari and VoiceOver on Mac and iPhone. 

I hope this helps!

Best, 

Joshua Hori
Accessible Technology Analyst
University of California, Davis
Student Disability Center
54 Cowell Building
Davis, CA 95616


-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 1:47 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Russell Solowoniuk <SolowoniukR at macewan.ca>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors

Hi Steve,

Thanks so much. I'll check these out!

Best regards,

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. 
Please consider the environment before printing this email.


>>> Steve Noble via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 2:32 PM 
>>> >>>
One possibility would be using MathHear: https://www.gh-accessibility.com/software/mathhear
There's a free 30-day demo available if you want to try it out.

Another possibility is ChattyInfty: http://www.sciaccess.net/en/ChattyInfty/ 

Just a couple of tools to add to your list for investigation.



--Steve Noble
steve.noble at louisville.edu
502-969-3088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble 


________________________________________
From: Blindmath [blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath [blindmath at nfbnet.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:51 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org 
Cc: Russell Solowoniuk
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted instructors

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca 
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



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From MLewicki at bcsd.neric.org  Thu Aug 18 00:04:33 2016
From: MLewicki at bcsd.neric.org (Lewicki, Maureen)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:04:33 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <4FD27C62-723D-4B0B-B618-63D5E6323A75@bcsd.neric.org>

My students send their assignments in via email with all of the "superscripts open parentheses etc. teachers are easy able to figure it out, and it gives them an added appreciation, in my opinion, of what my students have as hurdles. I have only had one teacher who refused to accept it and in that case the student dictated his answers. But frankly I felt that was completely unfair to the student. Hope that helps

Maureen Murphy Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/

On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca>
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca>
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



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From MLewicki at bcsd.neric.org  Thu Aug 18 00:05:41 2016
From: MLewicki at bcsd.neric.org (Lewicki, Maureen)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:05:41 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <A2722F68-CAE4-40B5-8779-9E74CE76725F@bcsd.neric.org>

In addition, no at this point there is not a back translator for the apex, but again, my teachers really don't struggle with it much

Maureen Murphy Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/

On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca>
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca>
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



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From SolowoniukR at macewan.ca  Thu Aug 18 19:07:51 2016
From: SolowoniukR at macewan.ca (Russell Solowoniuk)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:07:51 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <4FD27C62-723D-4B0B-B618-63D5E6323A75@bcsd.neric.org>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<4FD27C62-723D-4B0B-B618-63D5E6323A75@bcsd.neric.org>
Message-ID: <57B5B327020000EC00049A46@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>

Hi Maureen,

Thanks so much. I think this is the way we are going to go for now. The instructor looked at a sample and is quite open to working with the BrailleNote Apex files.

Thannks again.

Russell

>>> "Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 6:04 PM >>>
My students send their assignments in via email with all of the "superscripts open parentheses etc. teachers are easy able to figure it out, and it gives them an added appreciation, in my opinion, of what my students have as hurdles. I have only had one teacher who refused to accept it and in that case the student dictated his answers. But frankly I felt that was completely unfair to the student. Hope that helps

Maureen Murphy Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/ 

On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca>
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca>
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



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From MLewicki at bcsd.neric.org  Thu Aug 18 19:09:59 2016
From: MLewicki at bcsd.neric.org (Lewicki, Maureen)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 19:09:59 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B5B327020000EC00049A46@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<4FD27C62-723D-4B0B-B618-63D5E6323A75@bcsd.neric.org>,
	<57B5B327020000EC00049A46@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <CC04458F-EB78-4A01-A277-86DF8507CE26@bcsd.neric.org>

Super!!!! That makes it great all around!!

Maureen Murphy Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/

On Aug 18, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Hi Maureen,

Thanks so much. I think this is the way we are going to go for now. The instructor looked at a sample and is quite open to working with the BrailleNote Apex files.

Thannks again.

Russell

"Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> 2016-08-17 6:04 PM >>>
My students send their assignments in via email with all of the "superscripts open parentheses etc. teachers are easy able to figure it out, and it gives them an added appreciation, in my opinion, of what my students have as hurdles. I have only had one teacher who refused to accept it and in that case the student dictated his answers. But frankly I felt that was completely unfair to the student. Hope that helps

Maureen Murphy Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/

On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org><mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca><mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca>
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca><http://macewan.ca>
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



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From jheim at math.wisc.edu  Thu Aug 18 21:46:44 2016
From: jheim at math.wisc.edu (John G Heim)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 16:46:44 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <57B5B327020000EC00049A46@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<4FD27C62-723D-4B0B-B618-63D5E6323A75@bcsd.neric.org>
	<57B5B327020000EC00049A46@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
Message-ID: <1d6d1e75-dd73-7d1b-3c97-a4277f90760e@math.wisc.edu>

What is the name of the wiki database?




On 08/18/2016 02:07 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath wrote:
> Hi Maureen,
>
> Thanks so much. I think this is the way we are going to go for now. The instructor looked at a sample and is quite open to working with the BrailleNote Apex files.
>
> Thannks again.
>
> Russell
>
>>>> "Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 6:04 PM >>>
> My students send their assignments in via email with all of the "superscripts open parentheses etc. teachers are easy able to figure it out, and it gives them an added appreciation, in my opinion, of what my students have as hurdles. I have only had one teacher who refused to accept it and in that case the student dictated his answers. But frankly I felt that was completely unfair to the student. Hope that helps
>
> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> Bethlehem Central Schools
> 700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
> Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
> http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/
>
> On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.
>
> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.
>
> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?
>
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Russell
>
> Russell Solowoniuk
> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
> MacEwan University
> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca>
> T:  780-497-5826
> F:  780-497-4018
> macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca>
> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mlewicki%40bcsd.neric.org
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solowoniukr%40macewan.ca
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jheim%40math.wisc.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-- 
--
John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim at sip.linphone.org




From lfrankel at ETS.ORG  Fri Aug 19 19:28:45 2016
From: lfrankel at ETS.ORG (Frankel, Lois E)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 19:28:45 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] ClearSpeak project update
Message-ID: <CO2PR07MB2581C70F2F8BF5DD67F45373D9160@CO2PR07MB2581.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Development and Initial Evaluation of the ClearSpeak Style for Automated Speaking of Algebra is now available at http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ets2.12103/epdf.

Although this document is in PDF format, a fully-accessible Word version is also available. If you follow the links given in Appendix E (at the very end), you can obtain the accessible Word version along with ClearSpeak and the other tools needed to read the included math expressions (of which there are many).

This is the first Research Report (of three) in the ETS/Design Science project to develop improved speech and interactive navigation for MathML expressions, which was funded by the Institute of Education Sciences, US Department of Education, through Grant R324A110355 to the Educational Testing Service.

List-members probably know our co-author Neil Soiffer as well as Steve Noble, and Susan Osterhous, both of whom contributed to many aspects of the project, so shout-outs to them, as well as to co-authors Beth Brownstein and Eric Hansen who are less active on this list.

------
Lois Frankel, Ph.D.
Assessment Development
Educational Testing Service
Mail Stop 14-N   Room N157  609-683-2985





  ________________________________

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.

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From sarah.jevnikar at mail.utoronto.ca  Sat Aug 20 01:12:13 2016
From: sarah.jevnikar at mail.utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:12:13 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <1d6d1e75-dd73-7d1b-3c97-a4277f90760e@math.wisc.edu>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<4FD27C62-723D-4B0B-B618-63D5E6323A75@bcsd.neric.org>
	<57B5B327020000EC00049A46@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<1d6d1e75-dd73-7d1b-3c97-a4277f90760e@math.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <C78777BE-2BBE-43EA-9FE1-A42B74D6CA3C@mail.utoronto.ca>

There is another option. If the student types their assignments in Nemeth and save them as .txt files, they can be translated into LaTeX with Nemetex, found at
www.accessisoft.com/nemetex
It can then be opened in Scientific Viewer and printed as a pdf. It sounds more complicated than it is.

Learning LaTeX is probably a good idea as a long-term plan for your student.

I hope this helps,



> On Aug 18, 2016, at 5:46 PM, John G Heim via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> What is the name of the wiki database?
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 08/18/2016 02:07 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hi Maureen,
>> 
>> Thanks so much. I think this is the way we are going to go for now. The instructor looked at a sample and is quite open to working with the BrailleNote Apex files.
>> 
>> Thannks again.
>> 
>> Russell
>> 
>>>>> "Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2016-08-17 6:04 PM >>>
>> My students send their assignments in via email with all of the "superscripts open parentheses etc. teachers are easy able to figure it out, and it gives them an added appreciation, in my opinion, of what my students have as hurdles. I have only had one teacher who refused to accept it and in that case the student dictated his answers. But frankly I felt that was completely unfair to the student. Hope that helps
>> 
>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>> Bethlehem Central Schools
>> 700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
>> Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
>> http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/
>> 
>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.
>> 
>> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.
>> 
>> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?
>> 
>> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Russell
>> 
>> Russell Solowoniuk
>> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
>> MacEwan University
>> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
>> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca>
>> T:  780-497-5826
>> F:  780-497-4018
>> macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca>
>> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mlewicki%40bcsd.neric.org
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solowoniukr%40macewan.ca
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jheim%40math.wisc.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> -- 
> --
> John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim at sip.linphone.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40mail.utoronto.ca
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From MLewicki at bcsd.neric.org  Sat Aug 20 01:15:10 2016
From: MLewicki at bcsd.neric.org (Lewicki, Maureen)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 01:15:10 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <C78777BE-2BBE-43EA-9FE1-A42B74D6CA3C@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<4FD27C62-723D-4B0B-B618-63D5E6323A75@bcsd.neric.org>
	<57B5B327020000EC00049A46@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<1d6d1e75-dd73-7d1b-3c97-a4277f90760e@math.wisc.edu>,
	<C78777BE-2BBE-43EA-9FE1-A42B74D6CA3C@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <3630D9E0-80F1-4127-81F5-F14D71E8DA75@bcsd.neric.org>

Link did not work

Maureen Murphy Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/

On Aug 19, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

There is another option. If the student types their assignments in Nemeth and save them as .txt files, they can be translated into LaTeX with Nemetex, found at
www.accessisoft.com/nemetex<http://www.accessisoft.com/nemetex>
It can then be opened in Scientific Viewer and printed as a pdf. It sounds more complicated than it is.

Learning LaTeX is probably a good idea as a long-term plan for your student.

I hope this helps,



On Aug 18, 2016, at 5:46 PM, John G Heim via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

What is the name of the wiki database?




On 08/18/2016 02:07 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath wrote:
Hi Maureen,

Thanks so much. I think this is the way we are going to go for now. The instructor looked at a sample and is quite open to working with the BrailleNote Apex files.

Thannks again.

Russell

"Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> 2016-08-17 6:04 PM >>>
My students send their assignments in via email with all of the "superscripts open parentheses etc. teachers are easy able to figure it out, and it gives them an added appreciation, in my opinion, of what my students have as hurdles. I have only had one teacher who refused to accept it and in that case the student dictated his answers. But frankly I felt that was completely unfair to the student. Hope that helps

Maureen Murphy Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/

On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org><mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript, fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript) 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca><mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca>
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca><http://macewan.ca>
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org><mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
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BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solowoniukr%40macewan.ca
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>


_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jheim%40math.wisc.edu
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

--
--
John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu<mailto:jheim at math.wisc.edu>; sip://jheim at sip.linphone.org


_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40mail.utoronto.ca
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mlewicki%40bcsd.neric.org
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>


From osterhauss at tsbvi.edu  Sat Aug 20 02:55:42 2016
From: osterhauss at tsbvi.edu (Susan Osterhaus)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:55:42 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <3630D9E0-80F1-4127-81F5-F14D71E8DA75@bcsd.neric.org>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<4FD27C62-723D-4B0B-B618-63D5E6323A75@bcsd.neric.org>
	<57B5B327020000EC00049A46@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
	<1d6d1e75-dd73-7d1b-3c97-a4277f90760e@math.wisc.edu>
	<C78777BE-2BBE-43EA-9FE1-A42B74D6CA3C@mail.utoronto.ca>
	<3630D9E0-80F1-4127-81F5-F14D71E8DA75@bcsd.neric.org>
Message-ID: <CAG_NUqQf=3hnLwpOcPmZDRgeH40gm8LV9rSKeBB-Rt=3JSKoDA@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.accessisoft.com/nemetex.htm

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 8:15 PM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Link did not work
>
> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> Bethlehem Central Schools
> 700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
> Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
> http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/
>
> On Aug 19, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>
> There is another option. If the student types their assignments in Nemeth
> and save them as .txt files, they can be translated into LaTeX with
> Nemetex, found at
> www.accessisoft.com/nemetex<http://www.accessisoft.com/nemetex>
> It can then be opened in Scientific Viewer and printed as a pdf. It sounds
> more complicated than it is.
>
> Learning LaTeX is probably a good idea as a long-term plan for your
> student.
>
> I hope this helps,
>
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2016, at 5:46 PM, John G Heim via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>
> What is the name of the wiki database?
>
>
>
>
> On 08/18/2016 02:07 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath wrote:
> Hi Maureen,
>
> Thanks so much. I think this is the way we are going to go for now. The
> instructor looked at a sample and is quite open to working with the
> BrailleNote Apex files.
>
> Thannks again.
>
> Russell
>
> "Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:b
> lindmath at nfbnet.org>> 2016-08-17 6:04 PM >>>
> My students send their assignments in via email with all of the
> "superscripts open parentheses etc. teachers are easy able to figure it
> out, and it gives them an added appreciation, in my opinion, of what my
> students have as hurdles. I have only had one teacher who refused to accept
> it and in that case the student dictated his answers. But frankly I felt
> that was completely unfair to the student. Hope that helps
>
> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> Bethlehem Central Schools
> 700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
> Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
> http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/
>
> On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org><mailto:bl
> indmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are
> trying to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and
> print them out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and
> comprehend. The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.
>
> The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem
> with printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript,
> fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript)
> 2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.
>
> Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the
> material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted
> instructors?
>
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Russell
>
> Russell Solowoniuk
> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
> MacEwan University
> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca><mailto:
> solowoniukr at macewan.ca>
> T:  780-497-5826
> F:  780-497-4018
> macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca><http://macewan.ca>
> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is
> addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged
> information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended
> recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take
> action relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent
> reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org><mailto:Bli
> ndmath at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> mlewicki%40bcsd.neric.org
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> solowoniukr%40macewan.ca
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> jheim%40math.wisc.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> --
> John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu<mailto:jheim at math.wisc.edu>; sip://
> jheim at sip.linphone.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> sarah.jevnikar%40mail.utoronto.ca
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:Blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> mlewicki%40bcsd.neric.org
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> blindmath-gems-home>
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> blindmath-gems-home>
>


From sarah.jevnikar at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Aug 21 16:25:35 2016
From: sarah.jevnikar at mail.utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 12:25:35 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
 instructors
In-Reply-To: <3630D9E0-80F1-4127-81F5-F14D71E8DA75@bcsd.neric.org>
References: <57B45DC8020000EC00049962@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>	<4FD27C62-723D-4B0B-B618-63D5E6323A75@bcsd.neric.org>	<57B5B327020000EC00049A46@gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>	<1d6d1e75-dd73-7d1b-3c97-a4277f90760e@math.wisc.edu>,
	<C78777BE-2BBE-43EA-9FE1-A42B74D6CA3C@mail.utoronto.ca>
	<3630D9E0-80F1-4127-81F5-F14D71E8DA75@bcsd.neric.org>
Message-ID: <007801d1fbc8$a7d5e960$f781bc20$@mail.utoronto.ca>

Myapologies. This one should work.
http://accessisoft.com/nemetex.htm
Sarah



-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lewicki,
Maureen via Blindmath
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 9:15 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: Lewicki, Maureen
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Ways to create math solutions for sighted
instructors

Link did not work

Maureen Murphy Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/

On Aug 19, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

There is another option. If the student types their assignments in Nemeth
and save them as .txt files, they can be translated into LaTeX with Nemetex,
found at www.accessisoft.com/nemetex<http://www.accessisoft.com/nemetex>
It can then be opened in Scientific Viewer and printed as a pdf. It sounds
more complicated than it is.

Learning LaTeX is probably a good idea as a long-term plan for your student.

I hope this helps,



On Aug 18, 2016, at 5:46 PM, John G Heim via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

What is the name of the wiki database?




On 08/18/2016 02:07 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath wrote:
Hi Maureen,

Thanks so much. I think this is the way we are going to go for now. The
instructor looked at a sample and is quite open to working with the
BrailleNote Apex files.

Thannks again.

Russell

"Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> 2016-08-17 6:04 PM >>>
My students send their assignments in via email with all of the
"superscripts open parentheses etc. teachers are easy able to figure it out,
and it gives them an added appreciation, in my opinion, of what my students
have as hurdles. I have only had one teacher who refused to accept it and in
that case the student dictated his answers. But frankly I felt that was
completely unfair to the student. Hope that helps

Maureen Murphy Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Delmar, NY 12054<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/

On Aug 17, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org><mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.o
rg>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

We are supporting a student who is blind and taking Math 099. We are trying
to figure out a way for the student to complete assignments and print them
out in a format that a sighted instructor is able to read and comprehend.
The student will be working on things like quadratic equations.

The student does use nemeth. He has a BrailleNote Apex QT. The problem with
printing from the Apex is that things like superscript, subscript,
fractions, etc. are written out as (superscript) 2 (endscript), (subscript)
2 (endscript) (open frac) 1Over 2 (close frac) etc.

Is there a method of working with math for the blind that will allow the
material to be exported to a format that is easy to understand for sighted
instructors?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities MacEwan
University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
E:
solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca><mailto:solowoniukr at mac
ewan.ca>
T:  780-497-5826
F:  780-497-4018
macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca><http://macewan.ca>
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is
addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged
information.  Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended
recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action
relying on it.  Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply,
should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



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.ca
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--
--
John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu<mailto:jheim at math.wisc.edu>;
sip://jheim at sip.linphone.org


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
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.utoronto.ca
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<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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From saaqib1978 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Aug 22 14:14:17 2016
From: saaqib1978 at yahoo.co.in (Saaqib Mahmuud)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:14:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?
References: <704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Blindmath mates? How are you? 

Is SPSS accessible with JAWS for Windows? If so, can you please send me any scripts needed? 

If not, then is there any other statistical software tool --- in the same group as SPSS --- that IS accessible with JAWS? 

Regards. 

Sincerely, 
Saaqib



From A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz  Mon Aug 22 20:44:41 2016
From: A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz (Godfrey, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:44:41 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?
In-Reply-To: <704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9E20D2C850@tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz>

Hello,

This discussion topic comes up often on this list; so often I created a webpage at
http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz/StatSoftware
and subsequently wrote (with help from Theodor Loots, also on this list) that is openly available. The link is on the above webpage.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Saaqib Mahmuud via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, 23 August 2016 2:14 a.m.
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Saaqib Mahmuud
Subject: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hi Blindmath mates? How are you? 

Is SPSS accessible with JAWS for Windows? If so, can you please send me any scripts needed? 

If not, then is there any other statistical software tool --- in the same group as SPSS --- that IS accessible with JAWS? 

Regards. 

Sincerely, 
Saaqib

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
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BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov  Thu Aug 25 14:50:54 2016
From: Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov (Kathy Zolo)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:50:54 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?
In-Reply-To: <D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9E20D2C850@tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz>
References: <704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9E20D2C850@tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <2BF28C434B0C934B86D91FCDAFFC8EA3E6B32153@2Q00-03-90252.agency.local>

Hello,

Have you heard of the website desmos.com?  They are based in San Francisco, it's a free online graphing calculator that has many calculator features built into it.  For example, if you want to find the mean of some data points, you could enter mean(list the data points), and the program will give an output answer.

If you have any specific questions please get back to me and I will get you a direct contact name and email address.

Thanks,

Kathy Zolo
HS Math Teacher
Arizona School for the Blind (ASB)
Arizona State Schools for the Deaf and the Blind (ASDB)
Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov
Office: 520.770.3276
Fax: 520.770.3735

?? 
ASB guides and supports students in a safe, individual learning environment that addresses the whole person by providing opportunities ?and empowering students to face challenges and make responsible choices to pursue their potential and engage in their community.



-----Original Message-----
From: Godfrey, Jonathan [mailto:A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz] 
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 1:45 PM
To: Saaqib Mahmuud <saaqib1978 at yahoo.co.in>; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hello,

This discussion topic comes up often on this list; so often I created a webpage at http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz/StatSoftware
and subsequently wrote (with help from Theodor Loots, also on this list) that is openly available. The link is on the above webpage.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Saaqib Mahmuud via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, 23 August 2016 2:14 a.m.
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Saaqib Mahmuud
Subject: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hi Blindmath mates? How are you? 

Is SPSS accessible with JAWS for Windows? If so, can you please send me any scripts needed? 

If not, then is there any other statistical software tool --- in the same group as SPSS --- that IS accessible with JAWS? 

Regards. 

Sincerely,
Saaqib

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>





From jhori at ucdavis.edu  Thu Aug 25 16:48:19 2016
From: jhori at ucdavis.edu (Joshua Hori)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 16:48:19 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?
In-Reply-To: <2BF28C434B0C934B86D91FCDAFFC8EA3E6B32153@2Q00-03-90252.agency.local>
References: <704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9E20D2C850@tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz>
	<2BF28C434B0C934B86D91FCDAFFC8EA3E6B32153@2Q00-03-90252.agency.local>
Message-ID: <BY2PR08MB1733D9333B3A64CE11BFB8F7A9ED0@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hello Kathy, 

Do you have more information on how to use it with a screenreader? I can't seem to access the keyboard for the graphing tool (which is a pop up window). It's a little funny in that it accepts latex for some characters and not for others. For instance, I attempted to type out \frac12 for a fraction, but it immediately placed the 12 in subscript, but didn't inform me of that via screenreader. When I typed out 1/2, it came out fine. I can type out alpha and it produces an alpha, but doesn't produce micro unit, delta, sigma, omega, epsilion, or other greek characters. I was able to produce a sum, but trying to enter values into the sum was difficult in that JAWS would sometimes read areas and not others...Maybe I need to test with NVDA instead?

Even when I was able to enter x and y values, I couldn't read the graph with the screenreader. Is there a keyboard shortcut for this?

There is another online calculator which your students may be amazed by. Try out MyScript: http://webdemo.myscript.com/views/math.html (not accessible to screenreaders). Your students will be able to handwrite their equations into the webpage and if there's a graph available for the equation, it links into desmos.com in order to produce a visual graph. It used to link the MathJax file from Wolfram Alpha, but it seems that collaboration has stopped as it's no longer available, and I can't access the math equation like I used to. It also lists the LaTeX and MathML of the math equation to help your students understand how to write it in an electronic format. I write math in LaTeX, save as HTML, and use MathJax to display the math to screenreaders. 

Mentioning Wolfram...They have a new product called Mathematica which is being used now in higher ed. I haven't used it, but I understand they have a blind user who is using it in command line mode. We may have to add this to Jonathan's list of resources as it does deal with stats.

Sincerely, 

Joshua Hori


-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Zolo via Blindmath
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 7:51 AM
To: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>; Saaqib Mahmuud <saaqib1978 at yahoo.co.in>; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Kathy Zolo <Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hello,

Have you heard of the website desmos.com?  They are based in San Francisco, it's a free online graphing calculator that has many calculator features built into it.  For example, if you want to find the mean of some data points, you could enter mean(list the data points), and the program will give an output answer.

If you have any specific questions please get back to me and I will get you a direct contact name and email address.

Thanks,

Kathy Zolo
HS Math Teacher
Arizona School for the Blind (ASB)
Arizona State Schools for the Deaf and the Blind (ASDB) Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov
Office: 520.770.3276
Fax: 520.770.3735

?? 
ASB guides and supports students in a safe, individual learning environment that addresses the whole person by providing opportunities ?and empowering students to face challenges and make responsible choices to pursue their potential and engage in their community.



-----Original Message-----
From: Godfrey, Jonathan [mailto:A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz]
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 1:45 PM
To: Saaqib Mahmuud <saaqib1978 at yahoo.co.in>; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hello,

This discussion topic comes up often on this list; so often I created a webpage at http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz/StatSoftware
and subsequently wrote (with help from Theodor Loots, also on this list) that is openly available. The link is on the above webpage.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Saaqib Mahmuud via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, 23 August 2016 2:14 a.m.
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Saaqib Mahmuud
Subject: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hi Blindmath mates? How are you? 

Is SPSS accessible with JAWS for Windows? If so, can you please send me any scripts needed? 

If not, then is there any other statistical software tool --- in the same group as SPSS --- that IS accessible with JAWS? 

Regards. 

Sincerely,
Saaqib

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
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BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



_______________________________________________
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BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov  Thu Aug 25 17:01:31 2016
From: Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov (Kathy Zolo)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 17:01:31 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR08MB1733D9333B3A64CE11BFB8F7A9ED0@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<704069370.16092003.1471875257159.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9E20D2C850@tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz>
	<2BF28C434B0C934B86D91FCDAFFC8EA3E6B32153@2Q00-03-90252.agency.local>
	<BY2PR08MB1733D9333B3A64CE11BFB8F7A9ED0@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2BF28C434B0C934B86D91FCDAFFC8EA3E6B331D5@2Q00-03-90252.agency.local>

Joshua Hori,

I feel that if I forward your questions to Jennifer at DESMOS, she will be able to more directly help you since my time and focus is spent being a classroom teacher, and at this moment I am busy with my grades.

Jennifer,  I hope you don't mind that I am sending these questions about the use of DESMOS for statistics calculations to you.

Sincerely,

Kathy Zolo

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Hori [mailto:jhori at ucdavis.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:48 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>; Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>; Saaqib Mahmuud <saaqib1978 at yahoo.co.in>
Cc: Kathy Zolo <Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov>
Subject: RE: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hello Kathy, 

Do you have more information on how to use it with a screenreader? I can't seem to access the keyboard for the graphing tool (which is a pop up window). It's a little funny in that it accepts latex for some characters and not for others. For instance, I attempted to type out \frac12 for a fraction, but it immediately placed the 12 in subscript, but didn't inform me of that via screenreader. When I typed out 1/2, it came out fine. I can type out alpha and it produces an alpha, but doesn't produce micro unit, delta, sigma, omega, epsilion, or other greek characters. I was able to produce a sum, but trying to enter values into the sum was difficult in that JAWS would sometimes read areas and not others...Maybe I need to test with NVDA instead?

Even when I was able to enter x and y values, I couldn't read the graph with the screenreader. Is there a keyboard shortcut for this?

There is another online calculator which your students may be amazed by. Try out MyScript: http://webdemo.myscript.com/views/math.html (not accessible to screenreaders). Your students will be able to handwrite their equations into the webpage and if there's a graph available for the equation, it links into desmos.com in order to produce a visual graph. It used to link the MathJax file from Wolfram Alpha, but it seems that collaboration has stopped as it's no longer available, and I can't access the math equation like I used to. It also lists the LaTeX and MathML of the math equation to help your students understand how to write it in an electronic format. I write math in LaTeX, save as HTML, and use MathJax to display the math to screenreaders. 

Mentioning Wolfram...They have a new product called Mathematica which is being used now in higher ed. I haven't used it, but I understand they have a blind user who is using it in command line mode. We may have to add this to Jonathan's list of resources as it does deal with stats.

Sincerely, 

Joshua Hori


-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Zolo via Blindmath
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 7:51 AM
To: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>; Saaqib Mahmuud <saaqib1978 at yahoo.co.in>; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Kathy Zolo <Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hello,

Have you heard of the website desmos.com?  They are based in San Francisco, it's a free online graphing calculator that has many calculator features built into it.  For example, if you want to find the mean of some data points, you could enter mean(list the data points), and the program will give an output answer.

If you have any specific questions please get back to me and I will get you a direct contact name and email address.

Thanks,

Kathy Zolo
HS Math Teacher
Arizona School for the Blind (ASB)
Arizona State Schools for the Deaf and the Blind (ASDB) Kathy.Zolo at asdb.az.gov
Office: 520.770.3276
Fax: 520.770.3735

?? 
ASB guides and supports students in a safe, individual learning environment that addresses the whole person by providing opportunities ?and empowering students to face challenges and make responsible choices to pursue their potential and engage in their community.



-----Original Message-----
From: Godfrey, Jonathan [mailto:A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz]
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 1:45 PM
To: Saaqib Mahmuud <saaqib1978 at yahoo.co.in>; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hello,

This discussion topic comes up often on this list; so often I created a webpage at http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz/StatSoftware
and subsequently wrote (with help from Theodor Loots, also on this list) that is openly available. The link is on the above webpage.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Saaqib Mahmuud via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, 23 August 2016 2:14 a.m.
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Saaqib Mahmuud
Subject: [Blindmath] Any Statistical Software Accessible With JAWS?

Hi Blindmath mates? How are you? 

Is SPSS accessible with JAWS for Windows? If so, can you please send me any scripts needed? 

If not, then is there any other statistical software tool --- in the same group as SPSS --- that IS accessible with JAWS? 

Regards. 

Sincerely,
Saaqib

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From codeofdusk at gmail.com  Tue Aug 30 13:53:34 2016
From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill Dengler)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 13:53:34 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
Message-ID: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>

Hello,
I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
However, things like
$\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.

My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.

Questions:
Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.

Thanks,
Bill

From jjwhite at ets.org  Tue Aug 30 14:13:14 2016
From: jjwhite at ets.org (White, Jason J)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:13:14 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR0701MB19905660998D5576E1DB4616ABE00@BY2PR0701MB1990.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> Questions:
> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the
> Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily,
> particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
[Jason] The algebra you're working with isn't advanced yet, thus I would suggest finding more accessible solutions before it becomes truly complicated.
Nemeth code would give you a much more compact notation to work with that should be easier to read and manipulate for the purpose of solving equations, finding derivatives and integrals, etc.
> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a
> replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my
> teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from
> Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less
> so for the hardcopy variety.

[Jason] Note recent discussion on the list of Nemeth code to TeX translation software, which could make this even easier. Another approach would be to solve the problems in braille, then actually write the final solutions in TeX, with a braille display.
> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and
> use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the
> same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but
> UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by
> the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>
[Jason] Nemeth code was designed by a mathematician who had a talent for developing braille codes. I think it gives a much better representation of mathematical notation than, for example, the British-style braille mathematics that I used at school. Abraham Nemeth himself wrote insightful criticisms of the UEB mathematics code during its development, arguing that it was unsuitable for serious work in mathematics. I don't want to enter into that debate here, however, so please don't regard anything I've written as commentary on that particular controversy. The issues are not just a matter of how much space is taken up on the braille line; it's ultimately a question about the braille user's ability to understand and manipulate the notation in solving a mathematical problem, and how the braille code supports or hinders this process depending on its design.


________________________________

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.


Thank you for your compliance.

________________________________



From Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU  Tue Aug 30 14:21:21 2016
From: Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU (derek riemer)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:21:21 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>

One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level 
professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing 
you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. 
Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader 
(Is it jaws, or NVDA)?

Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a 
lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.

2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to 
duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just 
created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I 
ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a 
sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't 
let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm 
not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your 
speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.

Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in 
mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy 
braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another 
wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left 
of my computer to read the math.

Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once 
you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to 
la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool 
to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille 
and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of 
time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework 
in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from 
nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a 
find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole 
is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support 
line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.

If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some 
tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, 
you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a 
problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha 
and end them with \eAlpha

There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for 
begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of 
letters directly after a number, do this.
\bEnum
\fItem
\bAlpha
\item %a
\item bla bla bla %b
\item bla bla bla %c
\eAlpha
\item %2
\bCapAlpha
\item bla bla bla %A
\item Bla bla bla %B
\eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually 
just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering 
symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because 
I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all 
the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> However, things like
> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>
> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>
> Questions:
> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Derek Riemer

  * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
  * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  * Open source enthusiast.
  * Member of Bridge Cu
  * Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
Awesome little hand built weather app! 
<http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>

email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194



From Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU  Tue Aug 30 14:25:10 2016
From: Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU (derek riemer)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:25:10 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82ac9804-2aeb-28f3-74be-caf6abeaf146@colorado.edu>

Oh.

Also, \title and \author are defined, along with  \maketitle in the 
document. In the preamble, \dontcompile is randomly at the end, because 
I often forgot to change the title between assignments, so the compiler 
would fail to compile, I'd see that, and go change the title. I always 
copied from that template, so changing the title was the first thing I 
did, and if I forgot, that made me remember.

That also inserts todays date (If you want a different date, you'll have 
to use \date{bla} in the preamble or document.
On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> However, things like
> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>
> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>
> Questions:
> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Derek Riemer

  * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
  * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  * Open source enthusiast.
  * Member of Bridge Cu
  * Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
Awesome little hand built weather app! 
<http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>

email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194



From Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU  Tue Aug 30 14:27:39 2016
From: Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU (derek riemer)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:27:39 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] +1
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR0701MB19905660998D5576E1DB4616ABE00@BY2PR0701MB1990.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<BY2PR0701MB19905660998D5576E1DB4616ABE00@BY2PR0701MB1990.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <810380f5-a785-e96b-5754-f74fd671c64c@colorado.edu>



On 8/30/2016 8:13 AM, White, Jason J via Blindmath wrote:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Questions:
>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the
>> Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily,
>> particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> [Jason] The algebra you're working with isn't advanced yet, thus I would suggest finding more accessible solutions before it becomes truly complicated.
> Nemeth code would give you a much more compact notation to work with that should be easier to read and manipulate for the purpose of solving equations, finding derivatives and integrals, etc.
>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a
>> replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my
>> teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from
>> Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less
>> so for the hardcopy variety.
> [Jason] Note recent discussion on the list of Nemeth code to TeX translation software, which could make this even easier. Another approach would be to solve the problems in braille, then actually write the final solutions in TeX, with a braille display.
>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and
>> use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the
>> same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but
>> UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by
>> the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>>
> [Jason] Nemeth code was designed by a mathematician who had a talent for developing braille codes. I think it gives a much better representation of mathematical notation than, for example, the British-style braille mathematics that I used at school. Abraham Nemeth himself wrote insightful criticisms of the UEB mathematics code during its development, arguing that it was unsuitable for serious work in mathematics. I don't want to enter into that debate here, however, so please don't regard anything I've written as commentary on that particular controversy. The issues are not just a matter of how much space is taken up on the braille line; it's ultimately a question about the braille user's ability to understand and manipulate the notation in solving a mathematical problem, and how the braille code supports or hinders this process depending on its design.
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>
>
> Thank you for your compliance.
>
> ________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Derek Riemer

  * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
  * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  * Open source enthusiast.
  * Member of Bridge Cu
  * Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
Awesome little hand built weather app! 
<http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>

email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194



From taylorarndt99 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 30 14:53:48 2016
From: taylorarndt99 at gmail.com (Taylor Arndt)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 10:53:48 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01@gmail.com>

Do you guys use MathType for your math though also

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
> 
> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> 
> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> 
> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my computer to read the math.
> 
> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
> 
> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> 
> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of letters directly after a number, do this.
> \bEnum
> \fItem
> \bAlpha
> \item %a
> \item bla bla bla %b
> \item bla bla bla %c
> \eAlpha
> \item %2
> \bCapAlpha
> \item bla bla bla %A
> \item Bla bla bla %B
> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>> However, things like
>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>> 
>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>> 
>> Questions:
>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>   Derek Riemer
> 
> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> * Open source enthusiast.
> * Member of Bridge Cu
> * Avid skiier.
> 
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> 
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/taylorarndt99%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU  Tue Aug 30 14:58:34 2016
From: Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU (derek riemer)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:58:34 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01@gmail.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
	<6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <32f2cff8-3570-eca3-3e4a-e039f8ef3a56@colorado.edu>

I've used mathtype to read what ds gives me, and that's all. The main 
editor windows wasn't accessible with NVDA, and I've had problems 
getting mathtype to activate, and the parent company seemed not to care 
from the email response I got which said oh, we know what the problem 
is, and that's about it.


On 8/30/2016 8:53 AM, Taylor Arndt via Blindmath wrote:
> Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
>>
>> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
>>
>> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
>>
>> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my computer to read the math.
>>
>> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
>>
>> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
>>
>> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of letters directly after a number, do this.
>> \bEnum
>> \fItem
>> \bAlpha
>> \item %a
>> \item bla bla bla %b
>> \item bla bla bla %c
>> \eAlpha
>> \item %2
>> \bCapAlpha
>> \item bla bla bla %A
>> \item Bla bla bla %B
>> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
>> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
>> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
>>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
>>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>>> However, things like
>>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>>>
>>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bill
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> -- 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>    Derek Riemer
>>
>> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>> * Open source enthusiast.
>> * Member of Bridge Cu
>> * Avid skiier.
>>
>> Websites:
>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
>> Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>>
>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/taylorarndt99%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Derek Riemer

  * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
  * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  * Open source enthusiast.
  * Member of Bridge Cu
  * Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
Awesome little hand built weather app! 
<http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>

email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194



From Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU  Tue Aug 30 15:00:50 2016
From: Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU (derek riemer)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 09:00:50 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01@gmail.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
	<6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7aad5237-9b33-89b7-96a1-135d4a9d93d8@colorado.edu>

However, mathtype worked great for students giving me notes from class 
(they'd write the notes in mathtype after class and send them to me in a 
word document).


On 8/30/2016 8:53 AM, Taylor Arndt via Blindmath wrote:
> Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
>>
>> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
>>
>> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
>>
>> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my computer to read the math.
>>
>> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
>>
>> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
>>
>> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of letters directly after a number, do this.
>> \bEnum
>> \fItem
>> \bAlpha
>> \item %a
>> \item bla bla bla %b
>> \item bla bla bla %c
>> \eAlpha
>> \item %2
>> \bCapAlpha
>> \item bla bla bla %A
>> \item Bla bla bla %B
>> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
>> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
>> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
>>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
>>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>>> However, things like
>>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>>>
>>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bill
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> -- 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>    Derek Riemer
>>
>> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>> * Open source enthusiast.
>> * Member of Bridge Cu
>> * Avid skiier.
>>
>> Websites:
>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
>> Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>>
>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/taylorarndt99%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Derek Riemer

  * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
  * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  * Open source enthusiast.
  * Member of Bridge Cu
  * Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
Awesome little hand built weather app! 
<http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>

email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194



From sarah.jevnikar at mail.utoronto.ca  Tue Aug 30 15:00:55 2016
From: sarah.jevnikar at mail.utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 11:00:55 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01@gmail.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
	<6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003301d202cf$55d9d230$018d7690$@mail.utoronto.ca>

I use Math Type and have had some success, but occasionally the Math
Type-to-LaTeX translation is imperfect (extra \s) and translating with the
DBT add-in causes some symbols to go missing.

Generally Braille helps me conceptualize things, as I can imagine Braille
math written in my head and evaluate it that way. Bill's use of LaTeX is
great though, as it will mean that translation to print is easier.

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Taylor
Arndt via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 10:54 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: Taylor Arndt
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math

Do you guys use MathType for your math though also

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's
a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws,
or NVDA)?
> 
> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> 
> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of
manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> 
> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
computer to read the math.
> 
> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep
in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex,
replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting
the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex,
just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out
with explaining how to do things.
> 
> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for 
> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels 
> deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to 
> begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type 
> \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> 
> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
letters directly after a number, do this.
> \bEnum
> \fItem
> \bAlpha
> \item %a
> \item bla bla bla %b
> \item bla bla bla %c
> \eAlpha
> \item %2
> \bCapAlpha
> \item bla bla bla %A
> \item Bla bla bla %B
> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
teachers.
>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>> However, things like
>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex
fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying
and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's
horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>> 
>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a
disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing
simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of
the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's
tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a
plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have,
however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry
and trigonometry.
>> 
>> Questions:
>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more
easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as
a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my
teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth
from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable
Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to
convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
international standard now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
>> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at 
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> 
> 
>   Derek Riemer
> 
> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> * Open source enthusiast.
> * Member of Bridge Cu
> * Avid skiier.
> 
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built 
> weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> 
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu 
> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/taylorarndt99%4
> 0gmail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at 
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40mail
.utoronto.ca
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4649/12903 - Release Date: 08/29/16




From codeofdusk at gmail.com  Tue Aug 30 15:23:15 2016
From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill Dengler)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:23:15 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <99A98784-39FC-47E1-941C-0CBC343CBE1D@gmail.com>

I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille be useful?
Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!

Thanks,
Bill
> On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
> 
> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> 
> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> 
> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my computer to read the math.
> 
> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
> 
> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> 
> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of letters directly after a number, do this.
> \bEnum
> \fItem
> \bAlpha
> \item %a
> \item bla bla bla %b
> \item bla bla bla %c
> \eAlpha
> \item %2
> \bCapAlpha
> \item bla bla bla %A
> \item Bla bla bla %B
> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>> However, things like
>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>> 
>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>> 
>> Questions:
>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>   Derek Riemer
> 
> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> * Open source enthusiast.
> * Member of Bridge Cu
> * Avid skiier.
> 
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> 
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>




From george at techno-vision.co.uk  Tue Aug 30 15:27:55 2016
From: george at techno-vision.co.uk (George Bell)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:27:55 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <003301d202cf$55d9d230$018d7690$@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
	<6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01@gmail.com>
	<003301d202cf$55d9d230$018d7690$@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CB5A63C3B62C434280AA0E884CB6041615A7FE1E@TECHNO.tvs.local>

Hi Sarah,

Commercial response.

I just wanted to respond to your comment about the DBT (Duxbury Braille Translator) and symbols going missing.

One of Duxbury's development staff has a PhD in math, and in very recent years has been responsible for many improvements in this area.

If you do find problems, please contact Duxbury.

DBT's current release is 12.1 and now there is even a version for Apple Mac OSX.

George Bell.

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath
Sent: 30 August 2016 16:01
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Cc: Sarah Jevnikar
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math

I use Math Type and have had some success, but occasionally the Math Type-to-LaTeX translation is imperfect (extra \s) and translating with the DBT add-in causes some symbols to go missing.

Generally Braille helps me conceptualize things, as I can imagine Braille math written in my head and evaluate it that way. Bill's use of LaTeX is great though, as it will mean that translation to print is easier.

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Taylor Arndt via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 10:54 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: Taylor Arndt
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math

Do you guys use MathType for your math though also

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
> 
> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> 
> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ 
> to
duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> 
> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my computer to read the math.
> 
> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and 
> once
you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
> 
> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for 
> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels 
> deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to 
> begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type 
> \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> 
> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of letters directly after a number, do this.
> \bEnum
> \fItem
> \bAlpha
> \item %a
> \item bla bla bla %b
> \item bla bla bla %c
> \eAlpha
> \item %2
> \bCapAlpha
> \item bla bla bla %A
> \item Bla bla bla %B
> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, 
> because
I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out 
>> math
problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>> However, things like
>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull 
>> complex
fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>> 
>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>> 
>> Questions:
>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a 
>> device
like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or 
>> as
a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
>> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at 
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> 
> 
>   Derek Riemer
> 
> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> * Open source enthusiast.
> * Member of Bridge Cu
> * Avid skiier.
> 
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built 
> weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> 
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu 
> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/taylorarndt99%4
> 0gmail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at 
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40mail
.utoronto.ca
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4649/12903 - Release Date: 08/29/16


_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/george%40techno-vision.co.uk
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From jhori at ucdavis.edu  Tue Aug 30 16:15:00 2016
From: jhori at ucdavis.edu (Joshua Hori)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:15:00 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <99A98784-39FC-47E1-941C-0CBC343CBE1D@gmail.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
	<99A98784-39FC-47E1-941C-0CBC343CBE1D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR08MB17334F7E1DC51A43D07E8663A9E00@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

You can read math directly within a word doc or HTML using NVDA (Firefox worked best for me), but you may need to alter the browser settings to read the math correctly. Navigate to an equation, press the spacebar, arrow down to Math Settings, then arrow to the right once, then down to Math Renderer, then arrow right once again, then down to MathML. NVDA will now read math without skipping characters. NVDA is hands down my favorite screenreader for math. 

I didn't have to set anything on OSX or the iPhone, that I can recall. I could read math locally on my OSX when viewing the math in Safari, but I had to have the page hosted online to read it on my iPhone. As a work around, I was able to upload my math page to box.com and when I opened it on my iphone, it displayed the math correctly. I did have some issues earlier in the year on iOS and OSX where if I zoomed in on the math equations, brackets and parenthesis would disappear. Not a good thing in math, but I haven't been able to replicate this issue over the summer. 

All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've added a mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my LaTeX into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)  and for display math, I've used $$...$$. There's also conversion tools for word and google docs to convert latex into other math formats. Google docs automation tools produces an image of math in case you are wondering.

Here's a page everyone can play with which I've posted online (it's stats): http://www.clarodownloads.com/test/maths.htm

And don't worry, I've got you! So you need a way for you and your teacher to write accessible math? Try out Pearson's Accessible Equation Editor: http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
Works best with NVDA and a Braillenote. But your teacher can type out equations on the web page in the equation editor and you'll be able to view equations in the braille terminal on your braillenote; you can type in the braille terminal area and it'll appear visually to your teacher in the equation editor. 
Here's a link to the settings, which includes a sample NVDA.ini file for you to download and use: http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/settings.html

Best, 

Joshua Hori


-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dengler via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 8:23 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math

I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille be useful?
Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!

Thanks,
Bill
> On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
> 
> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> 
> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> 
> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my computer to read the math.
> 
> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
> 
> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for 
> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels 
> deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to 
> begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type 
> \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> 
> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of letters directly after a number, do this.
> \bEnum
> \fItem
> \bAlpha
> \item %a
> \item bla bla bla %b
> \item bla bla bla %c
> \eAlpha
> \item %2
> \bCapAlpha
> \item bla bla bla %A
> \item Bla bla bla %B
> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>> However, things like
>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>> 
>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>> 
>> Questions:
>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
>> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at 
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> 
> 
>   Derek Riemer
> 
> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> * Open source enthusiast.
> * Member of Bridge Cu
> * Avid skiier.
> 
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built 
> weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> 
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu 
> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm
> ail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at 
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>


_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jhori%40ucdavis.edu
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

From jjwhite at ets.org  Tue Aug 30 16:30:30 2016
From: jjwhite at ets.org (White, Jason J)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:30:30 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR08MB17334F7E1DC51A43D07E8663A9E00@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
	<99A98784-39FC-47E1-941C-0CBC343CBE1D@gmail.com>
	<BY2PR08MB17334F7E1DC51A43D07E8663A9E00@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR0701MB199090819E42D353222C10D3ABE00@BY2PR0701MB1990.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua
> All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've added a
> mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my LaTeX
> into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)  and for display
> math, I've used $$...$$.
[Jason] Have you tried using Pandoc (http://www.pandoc.org/) to convert from LaTeX or Markdown formats to HTML and MathML? It also allows you to use TeX mathematics notation in Markdown documents, if I remember correctly.
I use Pandoc extensively to convert from Markdown format to PDF via LaTeX, to HTML, Microsoft Word, etc. However, my documents don't contain mathematical notation. For anything that requires complex formatting, LaTeX is my tool of choice (because of its typesetting ability and flexibility, not its mathematics support).


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From ljmaher at swbell.net  Tue Aug 30 17:14:06 2016
From: ljmaher at swbell.net (Louis Maher)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:14:06 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR08MB17334F7E1DC51A43D07E8663A9E00@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>	<99A98784-39FC-47E1-941C-0CBC343CBE1D@gmail.com>
	<BY2PR08MB17334F7E1DC51A43D07E8663A9E00@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <004901d202e1$eab4a490$c01dedb0$@swbell.net>

Do you have to have MathPlayer on the system to allow NVDA to read math?



Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:15 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math

You can read math directly within a word doc or HTML using NVDA (Firefox worked best for me), but you may need to alter the browser settings to read the math correctly. Navigate to an equation, press the spacebar, arrow down to Math Settings, then arrow to the right once, then down to Math Renderer, then arrow right once again, then down to MathML. NVDA will now read math without skipping characters. NVDA is hands down my favorite screenreader for math. 

I didn't have to set anything on OSX or the iPhone, that I can recall. I could read math locally on my OSX when viewing the math in Safari, but I had to have the page hosted online to read it on my iPhone. As a work around, I was able to upload my math page to box.com and when I opened it on my iphone, it displayed the math correctly. I did have some issues earlier in the year on iOS and OSX where if I zoomed in on the math equations, brackets and parenthesis would disappear. Not a good thing in math, but I haven't been able to replicate this issue over the summer. 

All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've added a mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my LaTeX into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)  and for display math, I've used $$...$$. There's also conversion tools for word and google docs to convert latex into other math formats. Google docs automation tools produces an image of math in case you are wondering.

Here's a page everyone can play with which I've posted online (it's stats): http://www.clarodownloads.com/test/maths.htm

And don't worry, I've got you! So you need a way for you and your teacher to write accessible math? Try out Pearson's Accessible Equation Editor: http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
Works best with NVDA and a Braillenote. But your teacher can type out equations on the web page in the equation editor and you'll be able to view equations in the braille terminal on your braillenote; you can type in the braille terminal area and it'll appear visually to your teacher in the equation editor. 
Here's a link to the settings, which includes a sample NVDA.ini file for you to download and use: http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/settings.html

Best, 

Joshua Hori


-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dengler via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 8:23 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math

I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille be useful?
Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!

Thanks,
Bill
> On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
> 
> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> 
> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> 
> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my computer to read the math.
> 
> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
> 
> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for 
> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels 
> deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to 
> begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type 
> \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> 
> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of letters directly after a number, do this.
> \bEnum
> \fItem
> \bAlpha
> \item %a
> \item bla bla bla %b
> \item bla bla bla %c
> \eAlpha
> \item %2
> \bCapAlpha
> \item bla bla bla %A
> \item Bla bla bla %B
> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>> However, things like
>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>> 
>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>> 
>> Questions:
>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
>> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at 
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> 
> 
>   Derek Riemer
> 
> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> * Open source enthusiast.
> * Member of Bridge Cu
> * Avid skiier.
> 
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built 
> weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> 
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu 
> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm
> ail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at 
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>


_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jhori%40ucdavis.edu
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/ljmaher%40swbell.net
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>




From codeofdusk at gmail.com  Tue Aug 30 17:47:16 2016
From: codeofdusk at gmail.com (Bill Dengler)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 17:47:16 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <40F2C393-D2A7-40C0-90E7-211C086E5180@gmail.com>

I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille be useful?
Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!

Thanks,
Bill
> On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
> 
> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> 
> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> 
> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my computer to read the math.
> 
> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
> 
> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> 
> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of letters directly after a number, do this.
> \bEnum
> \fItem
> \bAlpha
> \item %a
> \item bla bla bla %b
> \item bla bla bla %c
> \eAlpha
> \item %2
> \bCapAlpha
> \item bla bla bla %A
> \item Bla bla bla %B
> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>> However, things like
>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>> 
>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>> 
>> Questions:
>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>   Derek Riemer
> 
> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> * Open source enthusiast.
> * Member of Bridge Cu
> * Avid skiier.
> 
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> 
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>




From jjwhite at ets.org  Tue Aug 30 18:11:01 2016
From: jjwhite at ets.org (White, Jason J)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 18:11:01 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <004901d202e1$eab4a490$c01dedb0$@swbell.net>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
	<99A98784-39FC-47E1-941C-0CBC343CBE1D@gmail.com>
	<BY2PR08MB17334F7E1DC51A43D07E8663A9E00@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
	<004901d202e1$eab4a490$c01dedb0$@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <BY2PR0701MB199014DF71C855E9B4A80C04ABE00@BY2PR0701MB1990.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Louis
> Do you have to have MathPlayer on the system to allow NVDA to read math?
[Jason] Yes, for the moment, and note that it's MathPlayer version 4.

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From Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU  Tue Aug 30 18:38:16 2016
From: Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU (derek riemer)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:38:16 -0600
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <004901d202e1$eab4a490$c01dedb0$@swbell.net>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
	<99A98784-39FC-47E1-941C-0CBC343CBE1D@gmail.com>
	<BY2PR08MB17334F7E1DC51A43D07E8663A9E00@BY2PR08MB1733.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
	<004901d202e1$eab4a490$c01dedb0$@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <3fb99f02-80e1-1eea-3c8f-e8d815cbcdd7@colorado.edu>

yes, or use mathjax accessibility extentions.


On 8/30/2016 11:14 AM, Louis Maher via Blindmath wrote:
> Do you have to have MathPlayer on the system to allow NVDA to read math?
>
>
>
> Regards
> Louis Maher
> Phone: 713-444-7838
> E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Hori via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:15 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> You can read math directly within a word doc or HTML using NVDA (Firefox worked best for me), but you may need to alter the browser settings to read the math correctly. Navigate to an equation, press the spacebar, arrow down to Math Settings, then arrow to the right once, then down to Math Renderer, then arrow right once again, then down to MathML. NVDA will now read math without skipping characters. NVDA is hands down my favorite screenreader for math.
>
> I didn't have to set anything on OSX or the iPhone, that I can recall. I could read math locally on my OSX when viewing the math in Safari, but I had to have the page hosted online to read it on my iPhone. As a work around, I was able to upload my math page to box.com and when I opened it on my iphone, it displayed the math correctly. I did have some issues earlier in the year on iOS and OSX where if I zoomed in on the math equations, brackets and parenthesis would disappear. Not a good thing in math, but I haven't been able to replicate this issue over the summer.
>
> All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've added a mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my LaTeX into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)  and for display math, I've used $$...$$. There's also conversion tools for word and google docs to convert latex into other math formats. Google docs automation tools produces an image of math in case you are wondering.
>
> Here's a page everyone can play with which I've posted online (it's stats): http://www.clarodownloads.com/test/maths.htm
>
> And don't worry, I've got you! So you need a way for you and your teacher to write accessible math? Try out Pearson's Accessible Equation Editor: http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
> Works best with NVDA and a Braillenote. But your teacher can type out equations on the web page in the equation editor and you'll be able to view equations in the braille terminal on your braillenote; you can type in the braille terminal area and it'll appear visually to your teacher in the equation editor.
> Here's a link to the settings, which includes a sample NVDA.ini file for you to download and use: http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/settings.html
>
> Best,
>
> Joshua Hori
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dengler via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 8:23 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille be useful?
> Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>> On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
>>
>> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
>>
>> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
>>
>> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my computer to read the math.
>>
>> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
>>
>> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
>> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
>> deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
>> begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
>> \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
>>
>> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of letters directly after a number, do this.
>> \bEnum
>> \fItem
>> \bAlpha
>> \item %a
>> \item bla bla bla %b
>> \item bla bla bla %c
>> \eAlpha
>> \item %2
>> \bCapAlpha
>> \item bla bla bla %A
>> \item Bla bla bla %B
>> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
>> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
>> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
>>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted teachers.
>>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
>>> However, things like
>>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
>>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>>>
>>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
>>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
>>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard now.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bill
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
>>> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>>
>>    Derek Riemer
>>
>> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>> * Open source enthusiast.
>> * Member of Bridge Cu
>> * Avid skiier.
>>
>> Websites:
>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
>> weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>>
>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm
>> ail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
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> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/ljmaher%40swbell.net
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
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> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Derek Riemer

  * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
  * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  * Open source enthusiast.
  * Member of Bridge Cu
  * Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
Awesome little hand built weather app! 
<http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>

email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194



From sr0038 at mix.wvu.edu  Wed Aug 31 12:26:12 2016
From: sr0038 at mix.wvu.edu (Suman Rath)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 08:26:12 -0400
Subject: [Blindmath] Stats for a beginner
Message-ID: <CA+STaWm0KETi72w6W1xmBnaMVOyKRxZ==iQRk1RYpZ+0-MOpZA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Listers,
I am extremely new here and to statistics as a subject as well.
I just joined the doctoral program at West Verginia university in
business management.
AS a starter, I need to do a lot of work with stats, e.g. data
annalises, stats courses etc.
TO someone like me, it all is a little daunting as I can't use SPSS,
am new to R  and am trying to figure the best way to work with basic
stuff i.e. histograms, boxplots etc.
I have been trying to learn R but it's not easy and I suppose will
work out in the long term.
Are there any other easier solutions to work with stats? I know SPSS
or Stata don't work with screen readers. I use Jaws 1.
I have little or no experience with Braile as well.

Warm Regards,
Suman.



From A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz  Wed Aug 31 12:42:32 2016
From: A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz (Godfrey, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 12:42:32 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Stats for a beginner
In-Reply-To: <CA+STaWm0KETi72w6W1xmBnaMVOyKRxZ==iQRk1RYpZ+0-MOpZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+STaWm0KETi72w6W1xmBnaMVOyKRxZ==iQRk1RYpZ+0-MOpZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9E20D33035@tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz>

Hello,
Please note the pages at
http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz/StatSoftware
where it says that you can use SPSS and Stata with screen readers. My review of Stata was refreshed this year. It can be used, but is perhaps a little painful. SPSS can be used with JAWS.
Jonathan


-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suman Rath via Blindmath
Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2016 12:26 a.m.
To: Blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Suman Rath
Subject: [Blindmath] Stats for a beginner

Hi Listers,
I am extremely new here and to statistics as a subject as well.
I just joined the doctoral program at West Verginia university in business management.
AS a starter, I need to do a lot of work with stats, e.g. data annalises, stats courses etc.
TO someone like me, it all is a little daunting as I can't use SPSS, am new to R  and am trying to figure the best way to work with basic stuff i.e. histograms, boxplots etc.
I have been trying to learn R but it's not easy and I suppose will work out in the long term.
Are there any other easier solutions to work with stats? I know SPSS or Stata don't work with screen readers. I use Jaws 1.
I have little or no experience with Braile as well.

Warm Regards,
Suman.

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From vincent.martin at gatech.edu  Wed Aug 31 14:26:17 2016
From: vincent.martin at gatech.edu (Martin, Vincent F)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 14:26:17 +0000
Subject: [Blindmath] Stats for a beginner
In-Reply-To: <D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9E20D33035@tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz>
References: <CA+STaWm0KETi72w6W1xmBnaMVOyKRxZ==iQRk1RYpZ+0-MOpZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9E20D33035@tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <BLUPR07MB4832C8F85C2F15F4B1B151EF2E30@BLUPR07MB483.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Please be careful if you are trying to use SPSS.  The program has scripts written specifically for JAWS.  The program cannot be used with Window-Eyes, NVDA, Dolphin, and most definitely not the mac version with voice-over.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:43 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Stats for a beginner

Hello,
Please note the pages at
http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz/StatSoftware
where it says that you can use SPSS and Stata with screen readers. My review of Stata was refreshed this year. It can be used, but is perhaps a little painful. SPSS can be used with JAWS.
Jonathan


-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suman Rath via Blindmath
Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2016 12:26 a.m.
To: Blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Suman Rath
Subject: [Blindmath] Stats for a beginner

Hi Listers,
I am extremely new here and to statistics as a subject as well.
I just joined the doctoral program at West Verginia university in business management.
AS a starter, I need to do a lot of work with stats, e.g. data annalises, stats courses etc.
TO someone like me, it all is a little daunting as I can't use SPSS, am new to R  and am trying to figure the best way to work with basic stuff i.e. histograms, boxplots etc.
I have been trying to learn R but it's not easy and I suppose will work out in the long term.
Are there any other easier solutions to work with stats? I know SPSS or Stata don't work with screen readers. I use Jaws 1.
I have little or no experience with Braile as well.

Warm Regards,
Suman.

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%40gatech.edu
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>



From anita.campbell at msab.state.mn.us  Wed Aug 31 16:00:18 2016
From: anita.campbell at msab.state.mn.us (Anita Campbell)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:00:18 -0500
Subject: [Blindmath] Blindmath Digest, Vol 121, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1472644801.21117.blindmath_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.9.1472644801.21117.blindmath_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <CAGttUUkPhfd8+sKF+StHNhyDH3QcP5mOy=2u5hJtCwLC23GyBg@mail.gmail.com>

Here are 3 links for great tools that my 10th grade student from France is
using. It replaces the use of a braille writer to do arithmetic or
algebra.  It is compact and she carries it in her backpack with  her at all
times. She has been using the single cubes since kindergarten. The algebra
ones she didn't start using until middle school and doesn't like them as
much. She said if she would of used them when she was younger she would
probably of liked them better. She has high school peers that use the
algebra ones only. The links are in french so you will need to translate.
Maybe APH could make something like these, smaller grids and weighted cubes
and algebra cubes?



http://magasin.avh.asso.fr/tous-les-articles/139-cubarithme.html#
<http://magasin.avh.asso.fr/tous-les-articles/139-cubarithme.html>



http://magasin.avh.asso.fr/tous-les-articles/145-cubes-
algebriques-par-100.html



http://magasin.avh.asso.fr/tous-les-articles/142-cubes-
arithmetiques-par-100.html

"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor even
touched, but just felt in the heart." -Helen Keller

Anita Campbell
Teacher for the Blind/Visually Impaired
Teacher for Autism Spectrum Disorder
Minnesota State Academy for the Blind
anita.campbell at msab.state.mn.us
507-384-6716


On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 7:00 AM, <blindmath-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
>         blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. using Braille for math (Bill Dengler)
>    2. Re: using Braille for math (White, Jason J)
>    3. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>    4. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>    5. +1 (derek riemer)
>    6. Re: using Braille for math (Taylor Arndt)
>    7. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>    8. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>    9. Re: using Braille for math (Sarah Jevnikar)
>   10. Re: using Braille for math (Bill Dengler)
>   11. Re: using Braille for math (George Bell)
>   12. Re: using Braille for math (Joshua Hori)
>   13. Re: using Braille for math (White, Jason J)
>   14. Re: using Braille for math (Louis Maher)
>   15. Re: using Braille for math (Bill Dengler)
>   16. Re: using Braille for math (White, Jason J)
>   17. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 13:53:34 +0000
> From: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> Hello,
> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> However, things like
> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex
> fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying
> and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's
> horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>
> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>
> Questions:
> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a
> replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my
> teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth
> from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable
> Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn
> and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to
> convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:13:14 +0000
> From: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite at ets.org>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <BY2PR0701MB19905660998D5576E1DB4616ABE00 at BY2PR0701MB1990.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Questions:
> > Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the
> > Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more
> easily,
> > particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> [Jason] The algebra you're working with isn't advanced yet, thus I would
> suggest finding more accessible solutions before it becomes truly
> complicated.
> Nemeth code would give you a much more compact notation to work with that
> should be easier to read and manipulate for the purpose of solving
> equations, finding derivatives and integrals, etc.
> > If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as
> a
> > replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my
> > teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from
> > Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable
> Braille, but less
> > so for the hardcopy variety.
>
> [Jason] Note recent discussion on the list of Nemeth code to TeX
> translation software, which could make this even easier. Another approach
> would be to solve the problems in braille, then actually write the final
> solutions in TeX, with a braille display.
> > If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and
> > use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to
> convey the
> > same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real
> estate), but
> > UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be
> replaced by
> > the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard
> now.
> >
> [Jason] Nemeth code was designed by a mathematician who had a talent for
> developing braille codes. I think it gives a much better representation of
> mathematical notation than, for example, the British-style braille
> mathematics that I used at school. Abraham Nemeth himself wrote insightful
> criticisms of the UEB mathematics code during its development, arguing that
> it was unsuitable for serious work in mathematics. I don't want to enter
> into that debate here, however, so please don't regard anything I've
> written as commentary on that particular controversy. The issues are not
> just a matter of how much space is taken up on the braille line; it's
> ultimately a question about the braille user's ability to understand and
> manipulate the notation in solving a mathematical problem, and how the
> braille code supports or hinders this process depending on its design.
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or
> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom
> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or
> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete
> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>
>
> Thank you for your compliance.
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:21:21 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing
> you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth.
> Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader
> (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
>
> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
>
> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't
> let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm
> not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your
> speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
>
> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another
> wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left
> of my computer to read the math.
>
> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to
> la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool
> to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille
> and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of
> time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework
> in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from
> nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a
> find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole
> is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support
> line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
>
> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some
> tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep,
> you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a
> problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha
> and end them with \eAlpha
>
> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> \bEnum
> \fItem
> \bAlpha
> \item %a
> \item bla bla bla %b
> \item bla bla bla %c
> \eAlpha
> \item %2
> \bCapAlpha
> \item bla bla bla %A
> \item Bla bla bla %B
> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all
> the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> > At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> > As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> > However, things like
> > $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> > can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >
> > My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >
> > Questions:
> > Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> > If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as
> a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> > If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:25:10 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <82ac9804-2aeb-28f3-74be-caf6abeaf146 at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Oh.
>
> Also, \title and \author are defined, along with  \maketitle in the
> document. In the preamble, \dontcompile is randomly at the end, because
> I often forgot to change the title between assignments, so the compiler
> would fail to compile, I'd see that, and go change the title. I always
> copied from that template, so changing the title was the first thing I
> did, and if I forgot, that made me remember.
>
> That also inserts todays date (If you want a different date, you'll have
> to use \date{bla} in the preamble or document.
> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> > At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> > As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> > However, things like
> > $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> > can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >
> > My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >
> > Questions:
> > Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> > If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as
> a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> > If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:27:39 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindmath] +1
> Message-ID: <810380f5-a785-e96b-5754-f74fd671c64c at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On 8/30/2016 8:13 AM, White, Jason J via Blindmath wrote:
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the
> >> Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more
> easily,
> >> particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> > [Jason] The algebra you're working with isn't advanced yet, thus I would
> suggest finding more accessible solutions before it becomes truly
> complicated.
> > Nemeth code would give you a much more compact notation to work with
> that should be easier to read and manipulate for the purpose of solving
> equations, finding derivatives and integrals, etc.
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a
> >> replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my
> >> teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from
> >> Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable
> Braille, but less
> >> so for the hardcopy variety.
> > [Jason] Note recent discussion on the list of Nemeth code to TeX
> translation software, which could make this even easier. Another approach
> would be to solve the problems in braille, then actually write the final
> solutions in TeX, with a braille display.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and
> >> use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to
> convey the
> >> same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real
> estate), but
> >> UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be
> replaced by
> >> the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard
> now.
> >>
> > [Jason] Nemeth code was designed by a mathematician who had a talent for
> developing braille codes. I think it gives a much better representation of
> mathematical notation than, for example, the British-style braille
> mathematics that I used at school. Abraham Nemeth himself wrote insightful
> criticisms of the UEB mathematics code during its development, arguing that
> it was unsuitable for serious work in mathematics. I don't want to enter
> into that debate here, however, so please don't regard anything I've
> written as commentary on that particular controversy. The issues are not
> just a matter of how much space is taken up on the braille line; it's
> ultimately a question about the braille user's ability to understand and
> manipulate the notation in solving a mathematical problem, and how the
> braille code supports or hinders this process depending on its design.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or
> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom
> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or
> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete
> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your compliance.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 10:53:48 -0400
> From: Taylor Arndt <taylorarndt99 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some
> tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you
> can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem,
> just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them
> with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> > Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> taylorarndt99%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:58:34 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <32f2cff8-3570-eca3-3e4a-e039f8ef3a56 at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I've used mathtype to read what ds gives me, and that's all. The main
> editor windows wasn't accessible with NVDA, and I've had problems
> getting mathtype to activate, and the parent company seemed not to care
> from the email response I got which said oh, we know what the problem
> is, and that's about it.
>
>
> On 8/30/2016 8:53 AM, Taylor Arndt via Blindmath wrote:
> > Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >>
> >> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >>
> >> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++
> to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >>
> >> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >>
> >> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and
> once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math
> to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool
> to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and
> then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since
> la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >>
> >> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep,
> you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a
> problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and
> end them with \eAlpha
> >>
> >> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> >> \bEnum
> >> \fItem
> >> \bAlpha
> >> \item %a
> >> \item bla bla bla %b
> >> \item bla bla bla %c
> >> \eAlpha
> >> \item %2
> >> \bCapAlpha
> >> \item bla bla bla %A
> >> \item Bla bla bla %B
> >> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> >> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> >> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out
> math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >>> However, things like
> >>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>>
> >>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>>
> >>> Questions:
> >>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Bill
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >> --
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> >>
> >>
> >>    Derek Riemer
> >>
> >> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >> * Open source enthusiast.
> >> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >> * Avid skiier.
> >>
> >> Websites:
> >> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> >> Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >>
> >> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >
> >> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> taylorarndt99%40gmail.com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 09:00:50 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <7aad5237-9b33-89b7-96a1-135d4a9d93d8 at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> However, mathtype worked great for students giving me notes from class
> (they'd write the notes in mathtype after class and send them to me in a
> word document).
>
>
> On 8/30/2016 8:53 AM, Taylor Arndt via Blindmath wrote:
> > Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >>
> >> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >>
> >> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++
> to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >>
> >> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >>
> >> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and
> once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math
> to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool
> to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and
> then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since
> la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >>
> >> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep,
> you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a
> problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and
> end them with \eAlpha
> >>
> >> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> >> \bEnum
> >> \fItem
> >> \bAlpha
> >> \item %a
> >> \item bla bla bla %b
> >> \item bla bla bla %c
> >> \eAlpha
> >> \item %2
> >> \bCapAlpha
> >> \item bla bla bla %A
> >> \item Bla bla bla %B
> >> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> >> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> >> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out
> math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >>> However, things like
> >>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>>
> >>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>>
> >>> Questions:
> >>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Bill
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >> --
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> >>
> >>
> >>    Derek Riemer
> >>
> >> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >> * Open source enthusiast.
> >> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >> * Avid skiier.
> >>
> >> Websites:
> >> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> >> Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >>
> >> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >
> >> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> taylorarndt99%40gmail.com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 11:00:55 -0400
> From: Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at mail.utoronto.ca>
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <003301d202cf$55d9d230$018d7690$@mail.utoronto.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I use Math Type and have had some success, but occasionally the Math
> Type-to-LaTeX translation is imperfect (extra \s) and translating with the
> DBT add-in causes some symbols to go missing.
>
> Generally Braille helps me conceptualize things, as I can imagine Braille
> math written in my head and evaluate it that way. Bill's use of LaTeX is
> great though, as it will mean that translation to print is easier.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Taylor
> Arndt via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 10:54 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Taylor Arndt
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's
> a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws,
> or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of
> manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep
> in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex,
> replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting
> the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex,
> just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out
> with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> > some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> > deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> > begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> > \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex
> fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying
> and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's
> horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a
> disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing
> simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of
> the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's
> tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a
> plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have,
> however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for
> Geometry
> and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more
> easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as
> a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my
> teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth
> from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable
> Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to
> convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> > weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> > <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/taylorarndt99%4
> > 0gmail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> sarah.jevnikar%40mail
> .utoronto.ca
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4649/12903 - Release Date: 08/29/16
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:23:15 +0000
> From: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <99A98784-39FC-47E1-941C-0CBC343CBE1D at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a
> Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille
> be useful?
> Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks
> for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some
> tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you
> can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem,
> just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them
> with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> > On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> > Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> codeofdusk%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:27:55 +0000
> From: George Bell <george at techno-vision.co.uk>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <CB5A63C3B62C434280AA0E884CB6041615A7FE1E at TECHNO.tvs.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Sarah,
>
> Commercial response.
>
> I just wanted to respond to your comment about the DBT (Duxbury Braille
> Translator) and symbols going missing.
>
> One of Duxbury's development staff has a PhD in math, and in very recent
> years has been responsible for many improvements in this area.
>
> If you do find problems, please contact Duxbury.
>
> DBT's current release is 12.1 and now there is even a version for Apple
> Mac OSX.
>
> George Bell.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah
> Jevnikar via Blindmath
> Sent: 30 August 2016 16:01
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Cc: Sarah Jevnikar
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> I use Math Type and have had some success, but occasionally the Math
> Type-to-LaTeX translation is imperfect (extra \s) and translating with the
> DBT add-in causes some symbols to go missing.
>
> Generally Braille helps me conceptualize things, as I can imagine Braille
> math written in my head and evaluate it that way. Bill's use of LaTeX is
> great though, as it will mean that translation to print is easier.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Taylor
> Arndt via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 10:54 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Taylor Arndt
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++
> > to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and
> > once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> > some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> > deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> > begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> > \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there,
> > because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all
> the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out
> >> math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> >> complex
> fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying
> and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's
> horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a
> >> device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> >> as
> a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> > weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> > <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/taylorarndt99%4
> > 0gmail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> sarah.jevnikar%40mail
> .utoronto.ca
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4649/12903 - Release Date: 08/29/16
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> george%40techno-vision.co.uk
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:15:00 +0000
> From: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <BY2PR08MB17334F7E1DC51A43D07E8663A9E00 at BY2PR08MB1733.
> namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> You can read math directly within a word doc or HTML using NVDA (Firefox
> worked best for me), but you may need to alter the browser settings to read
> the math correctly. Navigate to an equation, press the spacebar, arrow down
> to Math Settings, then arrow to the right once, then down to Math Renderer,
> then arrow right once again, then down to MathML. NVDA will now read math
> without skipping characters. NVDA is hands down my favorite screenreader
> for math.
>
> I didn't have to set anything on OSX or the iPhone, that I can recall. I
> could read math locally on my OSX when viewing the math in Safari, but I
> had to have the page hosted online to read it on my iPhone. As a work
> around, I was able to upload my math page to box.com and when I opened it
> on my iphone, it displayed the math correctly. I did have some issues
> earlier in the year on iOS and OSX where if I zoomed in on the math
> equations, brackets and parenthesis would disappear. Not a good thing in
> math, but I haven't been able to replicate this issue over the summer.
>
> All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've added
> a mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my
> LaTeX into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)
> and for display math, I've used $$...$$. There's also conversion tools for
> word and google docs to convert latex into other math formats. Google docs
> automation tools produces an image of math in case you are wondering.
>
> Here's a page everyone can play with which I've posted online (it's
> stats): http://www.clarodownloads.com/test/maths.htm
>
> And don't worry, I've got you! So you need a way for you and your teacher
> to write accessible math? Try out Pearson's Accessible Equation Editor:
> http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
> Works best with NVDA and a Braillenote. But your teacher can type out
> equations on the web page in the equation editor and you'll be able to view
> equations in the braille terminal on your braillenote; you can type in the
> braille terminal area and it'll appear visually to your teacher in the
> equation editor.
> Here's a link to the settings, which includes a sample NVDA.ini file for
> you to download and use: http://accessibility.pearson.
> com/mathex-app/settings.html
>
> Best,
>
> Joshua Hori
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Dengler via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 8:23 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a
> Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille
> be useful?
> Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks
> for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> > some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> > deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> > begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> > \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> > On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> > weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> > <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm
> > ail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jhori%40ucdavis.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:30:30 +0000
> From: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite at ets.org>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <BY2PR0701MB199090819E42D353222C10D3ABE00 at BY2PR0701MB1990.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Joshua
> > All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've
> added a
> > mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my
> LaTeX
> > into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)  and
> for display
> > math, I've used $$...$$.
> [Jason] Have you tried using Pandoc (http://www.pandoc.org/) to convert
> from LaTeX or Markdown formats to HTML and MathML? It also allows you to
> use TeX mathematics notation in Markdown documents, if I remember correctly.
> I use Pandoc extensively to convert from Markdown format to PDF via LaTeX,
> to HTML, Microsoft Word, etc. However, my documents don't contain
> mathematical notation. For anything that requires complex formatting, LaTeX
> is my tool of choice (because of its typesetting ability and flexibility,
> not its mathematics support).
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or
> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom
> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or
> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete
> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>
>
> Thank you for your compliance.
>
> ________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:14:06 -0500
> From: "Louis Maher" <ljmaher at swbell.net>
> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <004901d202e1$eab4a490$c01dedb0$@swbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>
> Do you have to have MathPlayer on the system to allow NVDA to read math?
>
>
>
> Regards
> Louis Maher
> Phone: 713-444-7838
> E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua
> Hori via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:15 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> You can read math directly within a word doc or HTML using NVDA (Firefox
> worked best for me), but you may need to alter the browser settings to read
> the math correctly. Navigate to an equation, press the spacebar, arrow down
> to Math Settings, then arrow to the right once, then down to Math Renderer,
> then arrow right once again, then down to MathML. NVDA will now read math
> without skipping characters. NVDA is hands down my favorite screenreader
> for math.
>
> I didn't have to set anything on OSX or the iPhone, that I can recall. I
> could read math locally on my OSX when viewing the math in Safari, but I
> had to have the page hosted online to read it on my iPhone. As a work
> around, I was able to upload my math page to box.com and when I opened it
> on my iphone, it displayed the math correctly. I did have some issues
> earlier in the year on iOS and OSX where if I zoomed in on the math
> equations, brackets and parenthesis would disappear. Not a good thing in
> math, but I haven't been able to replicate this issue over the summer.
>
> All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've added
> a mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my
> LaTeX into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)
> and for display math, I've used $$...$$. There's also conversion tools for
> word and google docs to convert latex into other math formats. Google docs
> automation tools produces an image of math in case you are wondering.
>
> Here's a page everyone can play with which I've posted online (it's
> stats): http://www.clarodownloads.com/test/maths.htm
>
> And don't worry, I've got you! So you need a way for you and your teacher
> to write accessible math? Try out Pearson's Accessible Equation Editor:
> http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
> Works best with NVDA and a Braillenote. But your teacher can type out
> equations on the web page in the equation editor and you'll be able to view
> equations in the braille terminal on your braillenote; you can type in the
> braille terminal area and it'll appear visually to your teacher in the
> equation editor.
> Here's a link to the settings, which includes a sample NVDA.ini file for
> you to download and use: http://accessibility.pearson.
> com/mathex-app/settings.html
>
> Best,
>
> Joshua Hori
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Dengler via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 8:23 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a
> Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille
> be useful?
> Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks
> for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> > some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> > deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> > begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> > \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> > On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> > weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> > <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm
> > ail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jhori%40ucdavis.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> ljmaher%40swbell.net
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 17:47:16 +0000
> From: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <40F2C393-D2A7-40C0-90E7-211C086E5180 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a
> Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille
> be useful?
> Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks
> for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some
> tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you
> can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem,
> just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them
> with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> > On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> > Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> codeofdusk%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 18:11:01 +0000
> From: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite at ets.org>
> To: "ljmaher at swbell.net" <ljmaher at swbell.net>, "Blind Math list for
>         those   interested in mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <BY2PR0701MB199014DF71C855E9B4A80C04ABE00 at BY2PR0701MB1990.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Louis
> > Do you have to have MathPlayer on the system to allow NVDA to read math?
> [Jason] Yes, for the moment, and note that it's MathPlayer version 4.
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or
> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom
> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or
> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete
> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>
>
> Thank you for your compliance.
>
> ________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:38:16 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: ljmaher at swbell.net, Blind Math list for those interested in
>         mathematics     <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <3fb99f02-80e1-1eea-3c8f-e8d815cbcdd7 at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> yes, or use mathjax accessibility extentions.
>
>
> On 8/30/2016 11:14 AM, Louis Maher via Blindmath wrote:
> > Do you have to have MathPlayer on the system to allow NVDA to read math?
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Louis Maher
> > Phone: 713-444-7838
> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Joshua Hori via Blindmath
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:15 AM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> >
> > You can read math directly within a word doc or HTML using NVDA (Firefox
> worked best for me), but you may need to alter the browser settings to read
> the math correctly. Navigate to an equation, press the spacebar, arrow down
> to Math Settings, then arrow to the right once, then down to Math Renderer,
> then arrow right once again, then down to MathML. NVDA will now read math
> without skipping characters. NVDA is hands down my favorite screenreader
> for math.
> >
> > I didn't have to set anything on OSX or the iPhone, that I can recall. I
> could read math locally on my OSX when viewing the math in Safari, but I
> had to have the page hosted online to read it on my iPhone. As a work
> around, I was able to upload my math page to box.com and when I opened it
> on my iphone, it displayed the math correctly. I did have some issues
> earlier in the year on iOS and OSX where if I zoomed in on the math
> equations, brackets and parenthesis would disappear. Not a good thing in
> math, but I haven't been able to replicate this issue over the summer.
> >
> > All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've
> added a mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert
> my LaTeX into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)
> and for display math, I've used $$...$$. There's also conversion tools for
> word and google docs to convert latex into other math formats. Google docs
> automation tools produces an image of math in case you are wondering.
> >
> > Here's a page everyone can play with which I've posted online (it's
> stats): http://www.clarodownloads.com/test/maths.htm
> >
> > And don't worry, I've got you! So you need a way for you and your
> teacher to write accessible math? Try out Pearson's Accessible Equation
> Editor: http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
> > Works best with NVDA and a Braillenote. But your teacher can type out
> equations on the web page in the equation editor and you'll be able to view
> equations in the braille terminal on your braillenote; you can type in the
> braille terminal area and it'll appear visually to your teacher in the
> equation editor.
> > Here's a link to the settings, which includes a sample NVDA.ini file for
> you to download and use: http://accessibility.pearson.
> com/mathex-app/settings.html
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Joshua Hori
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Dengler via Blindmath
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 8:23 AM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> >
> > I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> > Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to
> a Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> > When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy
> Braille be useful?
> > Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major.
> Thanks for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source
> code!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >> On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >>
> >> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >>
> >> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++
> to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >>
> >> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >>
> >> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and
> once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math
> to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool
> to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and
> then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since
> la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >>
> >> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> >> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> >> deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> >> begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> >> \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >>
> >> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> >> \bEnum
> >> \fItem
> >> \bAlpha
> >> \item %a
> >> \item bla bla bla %b
> >> \item bla bla bla %c
> >> \eAlpha
> >> \item %2
> >> \bCapAlpha
> >> \item bla bla bla %A
> >> \item Bla bla bla %B
> >> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> >> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> >> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out
> math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >>> However, things like
> >>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>>
> >>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>>
> >>> Questions:
> >>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Bill
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >>> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >> --
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>    Derek Riemer
> >>
> >> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >> * Open source enthusiast.
> >> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >> * Avid skiier.
> >>
> >> Websites:
> >> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> >> weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >>
> >> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> >> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm
> >> ail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> jhori%40ucdavis.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> ljmaher%40swbell.net
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 121, Issue 8
> *****************************************
>


From pranav.lal at gmail.com  Wed Aug 31 23:52:34 2016
From: pranav.lal at gmail.com (Pranav Lal)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 05:22:34 +0530
Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
In-Reply-To: <eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
References: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93@gmail.com>
	<eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <007f01d203e2$c08acda0$41a068e0$@gmail.com>

For matrices, use a spreadsheet to spatially align numbers into rows and
columns.