[Blindmath] Blindmath Digest, Vol 121, Issue 8

[Anita Campbell]

Here are 3 links for great tools that my 10th grade student from France is
using. It replaces the use of a braille writer to do arithmetic or
algebra.  It is compact and she carries it in her backpack with  her at all
times. She has been using the single cubes since kindergarten. The algebra
ones she didn't start using until middle school and doesn't like them as
much. She said if she would of used them when she was younger she would
probably of liked them better. She has high school peers that use the
algebra ones only. The links are in french so you will need to translate.
Maybe APH could make something like these, smaller grids and weighted cubes
and algebra cubes?



http://magasin.avh.asso.fr/tous-les-articles/139-cubarithme.html#
<http://magasin.avh.asso.fr/tous-les-articles/139-cubarithme.html>



http://magasin.avh.asso.fr/tous-les-articles/145-cubes-
algebriques-par-100.html



http://magasin.avh.asso.fr/tous-les-articles/142-cubes-
arithmetiques-par-100.html

"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor even
touched, but just felt in the heart." -Helen Keller

Anita Campbell
Teacher for the Blind/Visually Impaired
Teacher for Autism Spectrum Disorder
Minnesota State Academy for the Blind
anita.campbell at msab.state.mn.us
507-384-6716


On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 7:00 AM, <blindmath-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. using Braille for math (Bill Dengler)
>    2. Re: using Braille for math (White, Jason J)
>    3. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>    4. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>    5. +1 (derek riemer)
>    6. Re: using Braille for math (Taylor Arndt)
>    7. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>    8. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>    9. Re: using Braille for math (Sarah Jevnikar)
>   10. Re: using Braille for math (Bill Dengler)
>   11. Re: using Braille for math (George Bell)
>   12. Re: using Braille for math (Joshua Hori)
>   13. Re: using Braille for math (White, Jason J)
>   14. Re: using Braille for math (Louis Maher)
>   15. Re: using Braille for math (Bill Dengler)
>   16. Re: using Braille for math (White, Jason J)
>   17. Re: using Braille for math (derek riemer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 13:53:34 +0000
> From: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <8CFB4084-6D8F-47F6-81F2-15D11EB66C93 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> Hello,
> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> However, things like
> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull complex
> fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying
> and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's
> horribly inefficient and error-prone.
>
> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
>
> Questions:
> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as a
> replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that my
> teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth
> from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable
> Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I learn
> and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to
> convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:13:14 +0000
> From: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite at ets.org>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <BY2PR0701MB19905660998D5576E1DB4616ABE00 at BY2PR0701MB1990.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Questions:
> > Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the
> > Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more
> easily,
> > particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> [Jason] The algebra you're working with isn't advanced yet, thus I would
> suggest finding more accessible solutions before it becomes truly
> complicated.
> Nemeth code would give you a much more compact notation to work with that
> should be easier to read and manipulate for the purpose of solving
> equations, finding derivatives and integrals, etc.
> > If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as
> a
> > replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my
> > teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from
> > Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable
> Braille, but less
> > so for the hardcopy variety.
>
> [Jason] Note recent discussion on the list of Nemeth code to TeX
> translation software, which could make this even easier. Another approach
> would be to solve the problems in braille, then actually write the final
> solutions in TeX, with a braille display.
> > If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and
> > use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to
> convey the
> > same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real
> estate), but
> > UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be
> replaced by
> > the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard
> now.
> >
> [Jason] Nemeth code was designed by a mathematician who had a talent for
> developing braille codes. I think it gives a much better representation of
> mathematical notation than, for example, the British-style braille
> mathematics that I used at school. Abraham Nemeth himself wrote insightful
> criticisms of the UEB mathematics code during its development, arguing that
> it was unsuitable for serious work in mathematics. I don't want to enter
> into that debate here, however, so please don't regard anything I've
> written as commentary on that particular controversy. The issues are not
> just a matter of how much space is taken up on the braille line; it's
> ultimately a question about the braille user's ability to understand and
> manipulate the notation in solving a mathematical problem, and how the
> braille code supports or hinders this process depending on its design.
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or
> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom
> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or
> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete
> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>
>
> Thank you for your compliance.
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:21:21 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <eaa6d8c4-a108-5ef4-95b7-a91a0c19d72d at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing
> you can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth.
> Since it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader
> (Is it jaws, or NVDA)?
>
> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
>
> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't
> let your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm
> not sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your
> speed of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
>
> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another
> wiindow for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left
> of my computer to read the math.
>
> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to
> la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool
> to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille
> and then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of
> time since la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework
> in la tex, although I often either converted some of the math from
> nemeth with nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a
> find/replace, and then pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole
> is great with support on Nemetex, just send an email to the support
> line, and she is great about helping out with explaining how to do things.
>
> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some
> tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep,
> you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a
> problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha
> and end them with \eAlpha
>
> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> \bEnum
> \fItem
> \bAlpha
> \item %a
> \item bla bla bla %b
> \item bla bla bla %c
> \eAlpha
> \item %2
> \bCapAlpha
> \item bla bla bla %A
> \item Bla bla bla %B
> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all
> the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> > At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> > As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> > However, things like
> > $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> > can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >
> > My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >
> > Questions:
> > Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> > If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as
> a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> > If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:25:10 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <82ac9804-2aeb-28f3-74be-caf6abeaf146 at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Oh.
>
> Also, \title and \author are defined, along with  \maketitle in the
> document. In the preamble, \dontcompile is randomly at the end, because
> I often forgot to change the title between assignments, so the compiler
> would fail to compile, I'd see that, and go change the title. I always
> copied from that template, so changing the title was the first thing I
> did, and if I forgot, that made me remember.
>
> That also inserts todays date (If you want a different date, you'll have
> to use \date{bla} in the preamble or document.
> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> > At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> > As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> > However, things like
> > $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> > can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >
> > My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >
> > Questions:
> > Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> > If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as
> a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> > If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:27:39 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindmath] +1
> Message-ID: <810380f5-a785-e96b-5754-f74fd671c64c at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On 8/30/2016 8:13 AM, White, Jason J via Blindmath wrote:
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the
> >> Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems more
> easily,
> >> particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> > [Jason] The algebra you're working with isn't advanced yet, thus I would
> suggest finding more accessible solutions before it becomes truly
> complicated.
> > Nemeth code would give you a much more compact notation to work with
> that should be easier to read and manipulate for the purpose of solving
> equations, finding derivatives and integrals, etc.
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a
> >> replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my
> >> teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from
> >> Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable
> Braille, but less
> >> so for the hardcopy variety.
> > [Jason] Note recent discussion on the list of Nemeth code to TeX
> translation software, which could make this even easier. Another approach
> would be to solve the problems in braille, then actually write the final
> solutions in TeX, with a braille display.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and
> >> use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space to
> convey the
> >> same content (important for refreshable displays with limited real
> estate), but
> >> UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also, Nemeth could be
> replaced by
> >> the UEB math code in a few years since it's the international standard
> now.
> >>
> > [Jason] Nemeth code was designed by a mathematician who had a talent for
> developing braille codes. I think it gives a much better representation of
> mathematical notation than, for example, the British-style braille
> mathematics that I used at school. Abraham Nemeth himself wrote insightful
> criticisms of the UEB mathematics code during its development, arguing that
> it was unsuitable for serious work in mathematics. I don't want to enter
> into that debate here, however, so please don't regard anything I've
> written as commentary on that particular controversy. The issues are not
> just a matter of how much space is taken up on the braille line; it's
> ultimately a question about the braille user's ability to understand and
> manipulate the notation in solving a mathematical problem, and how the
> braille code supports or hinders this process depending on its design.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or
> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom
> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or
> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete
> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your compliance.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 10:53:48 -0400
> From: Taylor Arndt <taylorarndt99 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <6BF21694-BDA4-4CD4-86C4-3CA9F8033B01 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some
> tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you
> can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem,
> just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them
> with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> > Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> taylorarndt99%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:58:34 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <32f2cff8-3570-eca3-3e4a-e039f8ef3a56 at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I've used mathtype to read what ds gives me, and that's all. The main
> editor windows wasn't accessible with NVDA, and I've had problems
> getting mathtype to activate, and the parent company seemed not to care
> from the email response I got which said oh, we know what the problem
> is, and that's about it.
>
>
> On 8/30/2016 8:53 AM, Taylor Arndt via Blindmath wrote:
> > Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >>
> >> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >>
> >> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++
> to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >>
> >> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >>
> >> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and
> once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math
> to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool
> to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and
> then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since
> la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >>
> >> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep,
> you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a
> problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and
> end them with \eAlpha
> >>
> >> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> >> \bEnum
> >> \fItem
> >> \bAlpha
> >> \item %a
> >> \item bla bla bla %b
> >> \item bla bla bla %c
> >> \eAlpha
> >> \item %2
> >> \bCapAlpha
> >> \item bla bla bla %A
> >> \item Bla bla bla %B
> >> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> >> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> >> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out
> math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >>> However, things like
> >>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>>
> >>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>>
> >>> Questions:
> >>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Bill
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >> --
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> >>
> >>
> >>    Derek Riemer
> >>
> >> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >> * Open source enthusiast.
> >> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >> * Avid skiier.
> >>
> >> Websites:
> >> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> >> Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >>
> >> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >
> >> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> taylorarndt99%40gmail.com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 09:00:50 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <7aad5237-9b33-89b7-96a1-135d4a9d93d8 at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> However, mathtype worked great for students giving me notes from class
> (they'd write the notes in mathtype after class and send them to me in a
> word document).
>
>
> On 8/30/2016 8:53 AM, Taylor Arndt via Blindmath wrote:
> > Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >>
> >> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >>
> >> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++
> to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >>
> >> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >>
> >> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and
> once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math
> to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool
> to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and
> then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since
> la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >>
> >> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep,
> you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a
> problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and
> end them with \eAlpha
> >>
> >> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> >> \bEnum
> >> \fItem
> >> \bAlpha
> >> \item %a
> >> \item bla bla bla %b
> >> \item bla bla bla %c
> >> \eAlpha
> >> \item %2
> >> \bCapAlpha
> >> \item bla bla bla %A
> >> \item Bla bla bla %B
> >> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> >> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> >> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >>> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out
> math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >>> However, things like
> >>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>>
> >>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>>
> >>> Questions:
> >>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Bill
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >> --
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> >>
> >>
> >>    Derek Riemer
> >>
> >> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >> * Open source enthusiast.
> >> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >> * Avid skiier.
> >>
> >> Websites:
> >> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> >> Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >>
> >> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >
> >> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> taylorarndt99%40gmail.com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 11:00:55 -0400
> From: Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at mail.utoronto.ca>
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <003301d202cf$55d9d230$018d7690$@mail.utoronto.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I use Math Type and have had some success, but occasionally the Math
> Type-to-LaTeX translation is imperfect (extra \s) and translating with the
> DBT add-in causes some symbols to go missing.
>
> Generally Braille helps me conceptualize things, as I can imagine Braille
> math written in my head and evaluate it that way. Bill's use of LaTeX is
> great though, as it will mean that translation to print is easier.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Taylor
> Arndt via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 10:54 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Taylor Arndt
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's
> a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it jaws,
> or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of
> manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep
> in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex,
> replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then pasting
> the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on Nemetex,
> just send an email to the support line, and she is great about helping out
> with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> > some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> > deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> > begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> > \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex
> fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying
> and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's
> horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a
> disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when doing
> simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems because of
> the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the Math Window's
> tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a computer with a
> plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and Pre-Calculus. I have,
> however, used raised-line diagrams and three-dimensional models for
> Geometry
> and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more
> easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or as
> a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my
> teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe back-and-forth
> from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for refreshable
> Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to
> convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> > weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> > <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/taylorarndt99%4
> > 0gmail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> sarah.jevnikar%40mail
> .utoronto.ca
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4649/12903 - Release Date: 08/29/16
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:23:15 +0000
> From: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <99A98784-39FC-47E1-941C-0CBC343CBE1D at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a
> Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille
> be useful?
> Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks
> for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some
> tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you
> can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem,
> just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them
> with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> > On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> > Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> codeofdusk%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:27:55 +0000
> From: George Bell <george at techno-vision.co.uk>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <CB5A63C3B62C434280AA0E884CB6041615A7FE1E at TECHNO.tvs.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Sarah,
>
> Commercial response.
>
> I just wanted to respond to your comment about the DBT (Duxbury Braille
> Translator) and symbols going missing.
>
> One of Duxbury's development staff has a PhD in math, and in very recent
> years has been responsible for many improvements in this area.
>
> If you do find problems, please contact Duxbury.
>
> DBT's current release is 12.1 and now there is even a version for Apple
> Mac OSX.
>
> George Bell.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah
> Jevnikar via Blindmath
> Sent: 30 August 2016 16:01
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Cc: Sarah Jevnikar
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> I use Math Type and have had some success, but occasionally the Math
> Type-to-LaTeX translation is imperfect (extra \s) and translating with the
> DBT add-in causes some symbols to go missing.
>
> Generally Braille helps me conceptualize things, as I can imagine Braille
> math written in my head and evaluate it that way. Bill's use of LaTeX is
> great though, as it will mean that translation to print is easier.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Taylor
> Arndt via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 10:54 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Taylor Arndt
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> Do you guys use MathType for your math though also
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:21 AM, derek riemer via Blindmath
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++
> > to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and
> > once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> > some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> > deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> > begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> > \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there,
> > because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all
> the time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out
> >> math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> >> complex
> fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines, simplifying
> and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the end. It's
> horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a
> >> device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> >> as
> a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is that
> my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> > weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> > <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/taylorarndt99%4
> > 0gmail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> sarah.jevnikar%40mail
> .utoronto.ca
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4649/12903 - Release Date: 08/29/16
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> george%40techno-vision.co.uk
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:15:00 +0000
> From: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <BY2PR08MB17334F7E1DC51A43D07E8663A9E00 at BY2PR08MB1733.
> namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> You can read math directly within a word doc or HTML using NVDA (Firefox
> worked best for me), but you may need to alter the browser settings to read
> the math correctly. Navigate to an equation, press the spacebar, arrow down
> to Math Settings, then arrow to the right once, then down to Math Renderer,
> then arrow right once again, then down to MathML. NVDA will now read math
> without skipping characters. NVDA is hands down my favorite screenreader
> for math.
>
> I didn't have to set anything on OSX or the iPhone, that I can recall. I
> could read math locally on my OSX when viewing the math in Safari, but I
> had to have the page hosted online to read it on my iPhone. As a work
> around, I was able to upload my math page to box.com and when I opened it
> on my iphone, it displayed the math correctly. I did have some issues
> earlier in the year on iOS and OSX where if I zoomed in on the math
> equations, brackets and parenthesis would disappear. Not a good thing in
> math, but I haven't been able to replicate this issue over the summer.
>
> All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've added
> a mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my
> LaTeX into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)
> and for display math, I've used $$...$$. There's also conversion tools for
> word and google docs to convert latex into other math formats. Google docs
> automation tools produces an image of math in case you are wondering.
>
> Here's a page everyone can play with which I've posted online (it's
> stats): http://www.clarodownloads.com/test/maths.htm
>
> And don't worry, I've got you! So you need a way for you and your teacher
> to write accessible math? Try out Pearson's Accessible Equation Editor:
> http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
> Works best with NVDA and a Braillenote. But your teacher can type out
> equations on the web page in the equation editor and you'll be able to view
> equations in the braille terminal on your braillenote; you can type in the
> braille terminal area and it'll appear visually to your teacher in the
> equation editor.
> Here's a link to the settings, which includes a sample NVDA.ini file for
> you to download and use: http://accessibility.pearson.
> com/mathex-app/settings.html
>
> Best,
>
> Joshua Hori
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Dengler via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 8:23 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a
> Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille
> be useful?
> Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks
> for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> > some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> > deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> > begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> > \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> > On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> > weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> > <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm
> > ail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jhori%40ucdavis.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:30:30 +0000
> From: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite at ets.org>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <BY2PR0701MB199090819E42D353222C10D3ABE00 at BY2PR0701MB1990.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Joshua
> > All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've
> added a
> > mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my
> LaTeX
> > into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)  and
> for display
> > math, I've used $$...$$.
> [Jason] Have you tried using Pandoc (http://www.pandoc.org/) to convert
> from LaTeX or Markdown formats to HTML and MathML? It also allows you to
> use TeX mathematics notation in Markdown documents, if I remember correctly.
> I use Pandoc extensively to convert from Markdown format to PDF via LaTeX,
> to HTML, Microsoft Word, etc. However, my documents don't contain
> mathematical notation. For anything that requires complex formatting, LaTeX
> is my tool of choice (because of its typesetting ability and flexibility,
> not its mathematics support).
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or
> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom
> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or
> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete
> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>
>
> Thank you for your compliance.
>
> ________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:14:06 -0500
> From: "Louis Maher" <ljmaher at swbell.net>
> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <004901d202e1$eab4a490$c01dedb0$@swbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>
> Do you have to have MathPlayer on the system to allow NVDA to read math?
>
>
>
> Regards
> Louis Maher
> Phone: 713-444-7838
> E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua
> Hori via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:15 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> You can read math directly within a word doc or HTML using NVDA (Firefox
> worked best for me), but you may need to alter the browser settings to read
> the math correctly. Navigate to an equation, press the spacebar, arrow down
> to Math Settings, then arrow to the right once, then down to Math Renderer,
> then arrow right once again, then down to MathML. NVDA will now read math
> without skipping characters. NVDA is hands down my favorite screenreader
> for math.
>
> I didn't have to set anything on OSX or the iPhone, that I can recall. I
> could read math locally on my OSX when viewing the math in Safari, but I
> had to have the page hosted online to read it on my iPhone. As a work
> around, I was able to upload my math page to box.com and when I opened it
> on my iphone, it displayed the math correctly. I did have some issues
> earlier in the year on iOS and OSX where if I zoomed in on the math
> equations, brackets and parenthesis would disappear. Not a good thing in
> math, but I haven't been able to replicate this issue over the summer.
>
> All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've added
> a mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert my
> LaTeX into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)
> and for display math, I've used $$...$$. There's also conversion tools for
> word and google docs to convert latex into other math formats. Google docs
> automation tools produces an image of math in case you are wondering.
>
> Here's a page everyone can play with which I've posted online (it's
> stats): http://www.clarodownloads.com/test/maths.htm
>
> And don't worry, I've got you! So you need a way for you and your teacher
> to write accessible math? Try out Pearson's Accessible Equation Editor:
> http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
> Works best with NVDA and a Braillenote. But your teacher can type out
> equations on the web page in the equation editor and you'll be able to view
> equations in the braille terminal on your braillenote; you can type in the
> braille terminal area and it'll appear visually to your teacher in the
> equation editor.
> Here's a link to the settings, which includes a sample NVDA.ini file for
> you to download and use: http://accessibility.pearson.
> com/mathex-app/settings.html
>
> Best,
>
> Joshua Hori
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Dengler via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 8:23 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
>
> I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a
> Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille
> be useful?
> Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks
> for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> > some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> > deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> > begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> > \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> > On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> > weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> > <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm
> > ail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jhori%40ucdavis.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> ljmaher%40swbell.net
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 17:47:16 +0000
> From: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>         <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <40F2C393-D2A7-40C0-90E7-211C086E5180 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to a
> Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy Braille
> be useful?
> Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major. Thanks
> for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source code!
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >
> > Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >
> > 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++ to
> duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >
> > Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >
> > Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and once
> you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math to la
> tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool to
> keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and then
> having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since la
> tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >
> > If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for some
> tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels deep, you
> can download it at the link in this email. For example, to begin a problem,
> just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type \bAlpha and end them
> with \eAlpha
> >
> > There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> > \bEnum
> > \fItem
> > \bAlpha
> > \item %a
> > \item bla bla bla %b
> > \item bla bla bla %c
> > \eAlpha
> > \item %2
> > \bCapAlpha
> > \item bla bla bla %A
> > \item Bla bla bla %B
> > \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> > Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> > my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> > On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out math
> problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >> However, things like
> >> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>
> >> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>
> >> Questions:
> >> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >   Derek Riemer
> >
> > * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> > * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> > * Open source enthusiast.
> > * Member of Bridge Cu
> > * Avid skiier.
> >
> > Websites:
> > Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> > Awesome little hand built weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.
> com/weather/>
> >
> > email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> > Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> codeofdusk%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 18:11:01 +0000
> From: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite at ets.org>
> To: "ljmaher at swbell.net" <ljmaher at swbell.net>, "Blind Math list for
>         those   interested in mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID:
>         <BY2PR0701MB199014DF71C855E9B4A80C04ABE00 at BY2PR0701MB1990.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Louis
> > Do you have to have MathPlayer on the system to allow NVDA to read math?
> [Jason] Yes, for the moment, and note that it's MathPlayer version 4.
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or
> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom
> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or
> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete
> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>
>
> Thank you for your compliance.
>
> ________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:38:16 -0600
> From: derek riemer <Derek.Riemer at Colorado.EDU>
> To: ljmaher at swbell.net, Blind Math list for those interested in
>         mathematics     <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> Message-ID: <3fb99f02-80e1-1eea-3c8f-e8d815cbcdd7 at colorado.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> yes, or use mathjax accessibility extentions.
>
>
> On 8/30/2016 11:14 AM, Louis Maher via Blindmath wrote:
> > Do you have to have MathPlayer on the system to allow NVDA to read math?
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Louis Maher
> > Phone: 713-444-7838
> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Joshua Hori via Blindmath
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:15 AM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> >
> > You can read math directly within a word doc or HTML using NVDA (Firefox
> worked best for me), but you may need to alter the browser settings to read
> the math correctly. Navigate to an equation, press the spacebar, arrow down
> to Math Settings, then arrow to the right once, then down to Math Renderer,
> then arrow right once again, then down to MathML. NVDA will now read math
> without skipping characters. NVDA is hands down my favorite screenreader
> for math.
> >
> > I didn't have to set anything on OSX or the iPhone, that I can recall. I
> could read math locally on my OSX when viewing the math in Safari, but I
> had to have the page hosted online to read it on my iPhone. As a work
> around, I was able to upload my math page to box.com and when I opened it
> on my iphone, it displayed the math correctly. I did have some issues
> earlier in the year on iOS and OSX where if I zoomed in on the math
> equations, brackets and parenthesis would disappear. Not a good thing in
> math, but I haven't been able to replicate this issue over the summer.
> >
> > All my math is written in LaTeX and saved as an HTML document. I've
> added a mathjax script to the heading of the HTML document to autoconvert
> my LaTeX into MathML. For inline math, I've surrounded my Latex in \(...\)
> and for display math, I've used $$...$$. There's also conversion tools for
> word and google docs to convert latex into other math formats. Google docs
> automation tools produces an image of math in case you are wondering.
> >
> > Here's a page everyone can play with which I've posted online (it's
> stats): http://www.clarodownloads.com/test/maths.htm
> >
> > And don't worry, I've got you! So you need a way for you and your
> teacher to write accessible math? Try out Pearson's Accessible Equation
> Editor: http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathex-app/
> > Works best with NVDA and a Braillenote. But your teacher can type out
> equations on the web page in the equation editor and you'll be able to view
> equations in the braille terminal on your braillenote; you can type in the
> braille terminal area and it'll appear visually to your teacher in the
> equation editor.
> > Here's a link to the settings, which includes a sample NVDA.ini file for
> you to download and use: http://accessibility.pearson.
> com/mathex-app/settings.html
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Joshua Hori
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Dengler via Blindmath
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 8:23 AM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] using Braille for math
> >
> > I use NVDA on Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.
> > Are you suggesting that I read LaTeX source in Braille, or convert it to
> a Braille math code (like Nemeth or UEB) first?
> > When would refreshable Braille be useful, and when would hardcopy
> Braille be useful?
> > Also, I?m interested in Computer Science and plan to be a CS major.
> Thanks for the tip about the listings package for pretty-printing source
> code!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >> On Aug 30, 2016, at 2:21 PM, derek riemer via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> One thing I must say is if you plan to do math above calc level
> professionally, you'll benefit greatly by learning braille. One thing you
> can do is use a braille display to read either la tex, or nemeth. Since
> it's a braille display, you'll have speech from your screen reader (Is it
> jaws, or NVDA)?
> >>
> >> Also, if it's things with matrices,, hard copy braille will help you a
> lot, because having it in two dimensions really aids understanding.
> >>
> >> 2. I never needed something like the braille window. I used notepad++
> to duplicate lines (Ctrl+d, down arrow), and then edited the line I just
> created). This breaks down for complex math like linear algebra, where I
> ended up using a brailler with paper, and then later dictating it to a
> sighted assistant (In college, that's a reasonable accommodation, don't let
> your school tell you no to that). However, that could be useful, I'm not
> sure. I've never tried it. For matrices, it might actually aid your speed
> of manipulating the matrix since you can move numbers around.
> >>
> >> Another thing to look into is having your problems provided to you in
> mathml.In college, I actually had my ds office convert calc to hard copy
> braille, because the overhead of switching from mathml to another wiindow
> for editing and back was higher than moving my hand to the left of my
> computer to read the math.
> >>
> >> Another option, is to use nemetex, although you're in calc now, and
> once you get above calc level, nemetex will struggle to convert your math
> to la tex (It was primarily designed for calc and below). It's a good tool
> to keep in mind though, because sometimes, doing a problem in braille and
> then having it convert to la tex automatically saves you lots of time since
> la tex is way verbose. (In statistics, I did all my homework in la tex,
> although I often either converted some of the math from nemeth with
> nemetex, replacing mu with x or l, and then doing a find/replace, and then
> pasting the la tex into my source. Also, Nicole is great with support on
> Nemetex, just send an email to the support line, and she is great about
> helping out with explaining how to do things.
> >>
> >> If you want my preamble of macros I defined to make life easier for
> >> some tasks (Like beginning a matrix, or Enumerations nested n levels
> >> deep, you can download it at the link in this email. For example, to
> >> begin a problem, just type \bEnum, and to begin the letters part, type
> >> \bAlpha and end them with \eAlpha
> >>
> >> There's also \beCapAlpha to do capital letters, and \bmx and \emx for
> begin and end matrix. To get around a visual bug with the beginning of
> letters directly after a number, do this.
> >> \bEnum
> >> \fItem
> >> \bAlpha
> >> \item %a
> >> \item bla bla bla %b
> >> \item bla bla bla %c
> >> \eAlpha
> >> \item %2
> >> \bCapAlpha
> >> \item bla bla bla %A
> >> \item Bla bla bla %B
> >> \eCapAlpha %Any end would actually work here, the b* commands actually
> just tell la tex to begin an enumeration with the appropriate lettering
> symbol (That syntax is taxing to write all the time).
> >> Feel free to remove listings from my preamble (I have it there, because
> I'm a cs student, and I used the listings package for code listings all the
> time. Without it, writing code becomes harder).
> >> my latex template: https://files.derekriemer.com/latex_template.zip
> >> On 8/30/2016 7:53 AM, Bill Dengler via Blindmath wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I'm currently in 11th grade, taking Calculus this year.
> >>> At the moment, I use a screen reader and a text editor to work out
> math problems. Before, I wrote my problems in an improvised "calculator
> notation", where each line was written in a similar format to how it would
> appear on a scientific calculator (+ for addition, / for division, ^ for
> exponentiation, sqrt for square root, etc). This notation worked, but had
> several issues: it was ambiguous at times and hard to read for my sighted
> teachers.
> >>> As of last semester, I've been writing all of my math in LaTeX. This
> solves the ambiguity issues with calculator notation, and can easily be
> compiled to PDF for viewing by the sighted.
> >>> However, things like
> >>> $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{(-\frac{1}{2}+h)^3-(-\frac{1}{2})^3}{h}$
> >>> can be difficult to keep track of in speech; I often have to pull
> complex fractions apart, bringing certain parts onto their own lines,
> simplifying and combining everything back into the complex fraction at the
> end. It's horribly inefficient and error-prone.
> >>>
> >>> My Braille reading speed is fairly slow (around 55WPM), and the only
> experience I've had with Braille math was in elementary school, using a
> device called the Math Window <http://mathwindow.com>. That was, in
> short, a disaster; I was consistently lagging far behind my classmates when
> doing simple two and three digit addition and multiplication problems
> because of the time it took to interpret the Braille and manipulate the
> Math Window's tiles. I haven't used Braille for math since, using only a
> computer with a plain-text editor to do Algebra, Geometry, and
> Pre-Calculus. I have, however, used raised-line diagrams and
> three-dimensional models for Geometry and trigonometry.
> >>>
> >>> Questions:
> >>> Would the use of refreshable Braille, hardcopy Braille and/or a device
> like the Math Window while doing math help me to conceptualize problems
> more easily, particularly where advanced and/or heavy Algebra is involved?
> >>> If so, would it be most effective for me to use it in addition to, or
> as a replacement for, speech? The biggest problem with using Braille is
> that my teachers don't read it, so I'd have to frequently transcribe
> back-and-forth from Braille to LaTeX. This would be relatively painless for
> refreshable Braille, but less so for the hardcopy variety.
> >>> If I used Braille for math, which math code (UEB or Nemeth) should I
> learn and use? From what I've heard, Nemeth generally takes up less space
> to convey the same content (important for refreshable displays with limited
> real estate), but UEB's presentation of that content is clearer. Also,
> Nemeth could be replaced by the UEB math code in a few years since it's the
> international standard now.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Bill
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >>> 0colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >> --
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>    Derek Riemer
> >>
> >> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >> * Open source enthusiast.
> >> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >> * Avid skiier.
> >>
> >> Websites:
> >> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com> Awesome little hand built
> >> weather app! <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
> >>
> >> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> >> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gm
> >> ail.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> jhori%40ucdavis.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> ljmaher%40swbell.net
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>
> Awesome little hand built weather app!
> <http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>
>
> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 121, Issue 8
> *****************************************
>