[Blindmath] Computational software

Sun Mar 13 00:41:31 UTC 2016

A quick comment regarding mathematica. Wolfram, the company which sells the 
program, looked into what could be done to make it accessible for screen 
readers a couple of years ago. The conclusion was that with the current 
design of the program, it would be extremely difficult to make it 
accessible, unless the whole program was re-written from scratch. However, 
they were able to produce a code so that you could enter mathematica 
commands into a text file and execute them. The output is then written on a 
separate text file. Every time you want to run a new command, you go to the 
text file where the commands are to be entered, then go to mathematica and 
hit a couple of short cut keys which make it execute the file, and then 
reopen the output text file to read the results. This is of course rather 
cumbersome, so it is better not to make mathematica your main choice. In 
contrast, maple works really well with jaws. Or at least the old version 
which I have on my windows XP machine is pretty accessible. You just have to 
set one particular display setting after installation.

For the most part, you only need one such software to get your work done, 
and maple can be a pretty good choice for that purpose. There can be two 
exceptional cases where it may still be worth using mathematica. One is when 
you are trying to calculate some complicated integral and maple cannot do 
it. Then you feel like also trying mathematica to see if you have better 
luck with that. The other part where it may get tricky is when someone you 
are working with does something in mathematica or if you want to use some 
existing worksheet on the internet for some particular calculation.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Godfrey, Jonathan" <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Computational software

> Hi John et al.,
>
> Here is the experiment I conducted using Maxima:
>
> solve(a*x^2+b*x+c=0,x);
> tex(solve(a*x^2+b*x+c=0,x));
>
> The first line just ask for the solution (with respect to x) to the 
> standard quadratic equation, and the second asks for the answer to be 
> converted to \LaTeX code. The returned lines from the output file were:
>
> [x = -(sqrt(b^2-4*a*c)+b)/(2*a),x = (sqrt(b^2-4*a*c)-b)/(2*a)]
> $$\left[ x=-{{\sqrt{b^2-4\,a\,c}+b}\over{2\,a}} , 
> x={{\sqrt{b^2-4\,a\,c}-b}\over{2\,a}} \right] $$
>
> Of course I might prefer the solution be expressed using a plus or minus 
> sign to reduce the duplication, but the point remains that Maxima can 
> deliver with respect to symbolic manipulation. Btw: Unlike other software, 
> I did not need to specify which elements of the expression needed to be 
> treated as symbols.
>
> That TeX is pretty ugly too in my opinion but not all that much worse than 
> the way Maxima presented the two solutions. This is a great example of how 
> difficult working in \LaTeX can be, and how fiddly it could prove to 
> manipulate the numerator into the more conventional form \pm b - 
> \sqrt{b^2-4ac} for those students lacking familiarity with the material 
> and/or \LaTeX. Manipulation like this can of course be left for a 
> different discussion.
>
> I haven't the skills to drive the other programs you sought feedback on. I 
> expect Mathematica can match the above, but if it doesn't have a demo 
> version or dirt cheap student licence then it might not make the grade 
> anyway, no matter how accessible it can be made.
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John 
> Gardner via Blindmath
> Sent: Saturday, 12 March 2016 8:35 p.m.
> To: jheim at math.wisc.edu; Blind Math list for those interested in 
> mathematics
> Cc: John Gardner
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Computational software
>
> Wow, what great feedback. Thanks to Ben, Neil, Jonathan, Theodor, and 
> John!
>
> Please help me with one more question. I know that Mathematica does 
> symbolic math, but I am not familiar enough with Octave, Sage, Maxima, or 
> Magma to know which, if any, do symbolic math as well as numerical 
> computation. I would appreciate help in choosing the right symbolic math 
> app.
>
> Very much thanks.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G 
> Heim via Blindmath
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 6:58 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics 
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: John G Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Computational software
>
> I'm at the University of Wisconsin Department of Mathematics. Around here, 
> if people are going to use an open-source alternative to matlab, a lot of 
> them use sage. A few use octave. The vast majority just use matlab, of 
> course.
> A lot of people also use magma. We have the paid version but there is a 
> free student version as well.
>
>
> On 03/10/2016 06:59 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I told John in an offline discussion that various tools that range in 
>> their accessibility can be used in batch mode. I have used each of the 
>> following command lines in experiments. Each sits in a  batch file that I 
>> click on in Windows explorer. In each case, I must know what files I want 
>> to have the software read the commands from and written to; sometimes the 
>> output files being written are specified inside the input file and not on 
>> the command line. Obviously, I must know the correct syntax for the 
>> software to get any programs working using the following command lines, 
>> and I have to admit that my tests have been very basic proofs of concept.
>>
>> For Mathematica:
>> "C:\Program Files\Wolfram Research\Mathematica\10.0\math.exe" -script
>> InputTest.txt
>>
>> For Maxima:
>> "C:\Program Files\Maxima-5.25.0\bin\maxima.bat" -q --userdir="." <
>> "in.txt" > out.txt N.B. I'm sure there is a newer version of Maxima.
>>
>> For Octave:
>> "C:\Program Files\Octave\bin\octave-3.0.0.exe" -q < test.m >
>> results.txt N.B. Neil has just pointed us to a much newer version of 
>> Octave. I'm downloading now...
>>
>> For Matlab:
>> c:\progra~1\matlab\R2010b\bin\matlab.exe -r BATCHTest20140516.m
>> -logfile Log2.txt N.B. I do not have this software on my own computer 
>> anymore.
>>
>> For R:
>> "C:\Program Files\R\R-3.2.3\bin\i386\r.exe" CMD BATCH --vanilla
>> --quiet Input.R N.B. The output file is the same as the input filename 
>> but the extension changes to Rout.
>>
>> It seems none of my colleagues is using Maple so our licence has died,
>> and while I might include command lines for other statistical software
>> (SAS etc.), I would never suggest most Stats software  be used for
>> doing mathematical work. (Obvious exception is R of course)
>>
>>
>> All of the above software can handle numeric computation, but symbolic 
>> maths work isn't possible with all of these options. Octave and Matlab 
>> use practically the same code, but all of the others have their own 
>> syntax, which of course is not always thought of as an accessibility 
>> issue, although I would say having accessible documentation is a 
>> necessary criterion to impose on all software. Only Maxima has its own 
>> front end to generate code that could be put into an input file, and 
>> thankfully that GUI is pretty accessible. From my perspective, finding 
>> out what code is needed to do a job is the task of a student's lecturers, 
>> tutors etc. Getting people into a position to test that code is one of 
>> the things this list does well.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> John Gardner via Blindmath
>> Sent: Friday, 11 March 2016 11:18 a.m.
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Cc: John Gardner
>> Subject: [Blindmath] Computational software
>>
>> Hello listers, may I request your expertise on computational math 
>> applications. I am told that MatLab is reasonably accessible in command 
>> line mode. Can you recommend other numerical computation software that is 
>> powerful, accessible, and less expensive than MatLab? Secondly I would 
>> appreciate recommendations for symbolic solution applications such as 
>> Maple and Mathematica. I have used both of these and found Maple in 
>> particular to be quite accessible in command line mode. But I have not 
>> done such work in many years and fear that their accessibility is not as 
>> good now.
>>
>> I am asking because Summer University presenters want to have
>> workshops on both types of math application, but none of us is a real
>> expert on these apps. FYI Summer University is a workshop associated
>> with the ICCHP conference held in July in Linz, Austria. It is
>> intended to teach blind students and professionals working with blind
>> students about modern techniques for accessing STEM. If you can afford
>> a trip to Austria, anyone in either of these categories is welcome to
>> apply. Information on Summer University  is linked from the ICCP web
>> site http://icchp.org
>>
>> Thanks for any help you can throw my way.
>>
>> John Gardner
>>
>>
>>
>> John Gardner
>>   |
>> President
>> |
>>
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> --
> --
> John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org
>
>
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